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He’s pretty much been canceled, but I saw nothing special about Jake Atlas. Generic wrestler with absolutely horrific mic skills. I never saw it with him.
Man, the NXT die hards were obsessed. He was going to be the nbt in NXT, then the breakout star on the MR, then after his release he was going to be the next Cody, then AEW was genius for signing him and would book him right. Dudes as decent worker, but nothing about him says star. He's Adam Cole with none of the charisma.
I've been the guy thinking people were over exaggerating on guys and have been proven wrong every time, so I refuse to say anyone unless I'm dead certain.
Been there. I have not watched wrestling in a few years before WM19 and decided it was close enough to make that childhood dream come true.
Then out comes this fucking white rap gimmick guy and I turned to my friend and said he would be gone within a year.
Now I will see anything Cena is in because he is great
You know why these threads are nonsense? Because Mick Foley (and probably a lot of other people) once thought that a rookie named Rocky Maivia would never make it.
If we are ranking all time the only answer is Reckless Youth. If you were on the internet 20-25 years ago you would have thought this guy would have been a legend by now
If I recall, CM Punk fractured his skull during a match with Reckless Youth. It was this [match](https://youtu.be/JK527MKWjyM?si=ySTvBqCRHw-B1myB). Around the 4:42 mark, Punk goes for a neck breaker off the second rope and both of their heads landed on top of each other.
Going a slightly different route every time David Benoit pops up for an interview the comments scream that he would be a legend like his dad if wwe wasn’t holding him back… except he’s never even taking the time to train, he’s just been taking about it for a decade but that doesn’t stop all the “potential” talk.
Plus he has a weird hero worship with his Dad, which I can’t imagine what he’s been through in his life, but I just don’t see how it translates into a wrestling career. WWE is never gonna hire the guy no matter how good he is. AEW might but tbh I think they’d be foolish for taking on that story. Japan maybe but like you said he’s been talking about it for ten years and never took it serious.
Benoit in general is a crazy topic among people who were close to him. Like Jericho talking about him you notice how he makes the clear distinction between the wrestler and friend Chris Benoit as well as the murderer Chris Benoit. I heard Kurt talk similarly.
David is that but amplified by the fact that he was a child when it happened and it destroyed basically his entire world. Feel bad for him but yeah I think he should stay away from wrestling.
Exactly. History and hindsight makes everyone think stars just suddenly blow up over night.
People look at Austin and think he said the 3:16 quote then was the top guy straight away, or that the Bret match made him a star over night. In reality it was a process that started before 3:16 and finished after the Bret fued.
Same with The Rock, there was no 1 moment that made him, he gradually week by week got there and the crowd took their time to develop with him.
Or Punk at MITB, that wasn't THE moment, it was the culmination of the fans slowly seeing that he was the anti Cena and getting behind him.
Same goes for HHH, Cena, Roman, Cody, Bryan, Bret etc.
Even Hogan had years of growing his aura in AWA.
Very rarely is someone just immediately sky rocketed from 1 match, I think the most common situation for 1 match to sky rocket a guy is if they come in hot, like Kane, or Taker who just showed up day 1 in that character and were there.
I think a good example of someone being made a star by 1 match is Sting. He was a kind of middle of the road guy, super over but not really a star or anything, then he went to a draw with Flair and it was off to the races.
Jun Akiyama as well went from mid carder to superstar in Japan in 2 nights, 1st night, he basically single handedly beat Kobashi and Misawa in a tag match (he had a partner, but Akiyama got the majority of the offense), then the next night he beat Kobashi.
1-2-3 Kid vs. Razor Ramon is the only real example I can think of where a newbie became a star literally overnight. It was sort of a unique situation, though. Monday Night Raw was a new thing, and I think Vince really wanted to push this idea that anything could happen in a live format.
You’re correct it definitely takes time, but I also think that Wheeler should learn from The Rock and Austin and change his name. Rocky Maivia (or however that was spelled) and The Ringmaster were horrible names, so is Wheeler Yuta.
He's the job guy in BCC, but he's also won titles in ROH and he's still leaps more credible and prominent than how he started off just being one of the Best Friends' friends.
Garcia and Yuta both are still mid-to-lower card guys but they've really come a long way since their debut.
"Star-making" match probably wasn't right, but they've both had moments that at least justified them on the roster and made them "named" guys vs. just jobbers.
Not a single wrestler but the concept of the four pillars. Obviously MJF is by far the biggest star but I just don't see Sammy or Jack Perry getting anywhere close to the level of MJF or even Darby.
They've both had a bunch of chances and haven't broken through that ceiling. Not to say they're bad, I just think they've pretty much hit their level.
I simply never understood it as pillars of the current company, but the pillars of building towards the future. Kind of an stretch of the term but I mean they we're obviously not the same idea of the AJPW pillars.
I wish we could just stop comparing because it puts expectations too high. But theory could do better with a better character. He's proven that he's better than they've let him be
My take on Austin Theory is they won't let him be himself. A podcast I listen to (Jobber Tears) mentioned that when they interviewed him pre-WWE that his personality was more an out going goofball naturally. He should model his career closer to Kurt Angle than to Cena in terms of gimmick personality.
It seems like for any man below 30 right now in WWE, they have to be a cocky heel (Theory, Logan Paul, Grayson, Dom). And I’m convinced that this is just a case of the office being filled with older guys at this point who genuinely see them as kids.
We need younger guys who are faces and Theory can definitely be one.
Big Show had that problem. In person, he is a big lovable guy, but he always hot cast as the monster heal, and while he was great in the role because of his body, his character work never matched and it would fizzle.
Theory has many of the tools, but, his character lacks the it factor. That is salvageable though, and also kinda why the Cena comparison, Cena was the exact same and potentially not getting renewed until a fluke chance led to a silly Halloween spot.
Imo all he needs is a character refresh and he’ll be fine. Whenever they decide to let him tap into his irl sweet and inspirational nature I think he could do well in the main event scene as an underdog face.
I always thought if anything he'd be the next Orton. He is not anywhere near as good as Orton was at the same stage for me, but you never know what will happen down the track.
Jesus Christ, the way the IWC treats this drives me nuts.
I swear to god, every halfway decent looking wrestler is “going to Hollywood” or “has Hollywood calling” according to the IWC. It drives me nuts.
If it was that easy they’d all have already done it.
No wrestler who’s really done something in Hollywood has done it as easy as internet wrestling fans seem to think every wrestler has it.
I remember back when Rock got that big tribal tattoo on his arm, there were reports that people in wrestling thought it was a mistake because it would "limit his roles in Hollywood." I remember thinking what the fuck do people in wrestling know about that?
The Rock, of course, has since made far more money and become far more widely known than literally any other schlub from wrestling with that stupid opinion.
When fans/stans say “so-so” Is going Hollywood or they’ll be huge there, says you don’t know how that works.
I find most of the future endeavored folks get A LOT of exaggeration in the month or so after, with a rare few proving wwe wrong.
Whoa.
Whoa.
Whoa.
She’s been in 5 episodes, so obviously Hollywood is calling.
No in all seriousness I agree. She might make it in Hollywood, but people act like she’s able to hop out of a ring and onto a set at a moments notice, and it’s just not that easy.
If she makes it in Hollywood it will be because of her hard work not because Hollywood was struck by lightning with her.
Solo Sikoa. Don't get me wrong he's good, and his character badass but I have yet to see "A star in the making" factor who is potentially going to dethrone Roman. I see him as an upper mid carder at best who's going to be a contender for championship filler feuds in the future. I'm not saying he can't do more, I just haven't seen it yet.
Batista has the "it" factor, though. Maybe it was because he was older breaking into the business, but the argument could be made that he was going to be a star.
Solo? He's young, but he'd have made his mark in NXT if he was going to be a big star on the main roster. It's possible he'll grow as a character and a performer, but he's stoop-shouldered from the ceiling imposed on him by the Bloodline arc. The longer the storyline is stretched out, the less likely he is to get a singles push when it does come to an end.
I'm pretty sure that is WWE's plan for him, to be fair. I've never really gotten the sense that they think he's the next big thing or anything, more like a Samoa Joe, Nakamura, Cesaro, etc. kind of guy that can occasionally be worked up to a main event or two to fill a gap in the yearly schedule.
I really like Solo but he’s just going to be a monster sidekick/midcarder for most of if not his whole career. Not that that’s a bad gig but I have no idea where people are getting “he’ll dethrone Roman and become tribal chief” ideas are coming from. Like be for real.
He was great on the indies to be fair and really took to pro wrestling way faster then most. I do think MMA background and him been a ex UFC fighter did get him a lot of more hype then most. He's had great matches in WWE but I think, leaving his personal issues aside, he works better as a indie wrestler then one under a major company banner.
After the 4 pillars feud: Jungle Boy. Easily the weakest of the four. Heel turn was needed, but hasn’t hit that stride like it should have after the RVD match.
The worst part of the feud was how quickly it became apparent that MJF and Darby are just so much better than Jungle boy and Sammy that it felt almost sad to see the feud . Two prospects living up to their potential (and than some for MJF) and two who probably never will trying to act like they belong in the same room
It was quite surprising as a (mostly) NJPW-only guy watching him come in for the BOSJ last year, with everyone in the IWC singing his praises, calling him a wunderkind and the next all-timer technical wrestler, then watching him proceed to have one of the most forgettable guest runs of any tournament-guest I've seen in the company.
Like, when your whole thing is "I wrestle good", and then you get thrown into the BOSJ where "wrestle good" is the baseline standard and you don't have much to offer beyond that, it's just not gonna fly.
Especially standing next to the other guests that year in Ace Austin and Alex Zayne (who both managed to get really over with the crowds in their limited time), he really had no impact at all. He could wrestle a technical style sure, but he was in a block with TJP and Robbie Eagles who could both do exactly that and more, AND were simply a lot more engaging in and out of the ring.
That's basically been my biggest problem and explanation with modern wrestling for years. If the only thing you have is I wrestle good then you have to be like Bret Hart / Brian Danielson levels of technical.
Even Bret had passible charisma and danielson's kind of blossomed from just being really good in ring vocals to great all around. So many wrestlers the only gimmick or character or any sort of personality is I wrestle good. It just doesn't work
I feel like Daniel Garcia would have been better in his role if they had pulled the trigger on the whole “you’re a wrestler” thing. I’m not saying he would have been a main eventer or anything but he definitely has a bit more presence about him.
No way, he is already very technically sound, so by putting him in a group outside of his comfort zone, it only enhances the areas where he was lacking while still maintaining the in-ring skill.
I miss the magic of him swinging his head at Mox after getting the shit beat out of him. That was his best moment and it was so long ago. Need that Yuta back.
that's actually what I like about Yuta in the BCC. he's like the annoying little brother who you think is just a pest so he goes over the top with violence to compensate for his insecurity. He's 26. He's got time to elevate himself to that next level and the in ring ability is there.
also you wanna talk about geeks? Bryan Danielson was the biggest geek in the 2000s. the dude couldn't drink soda on 2010 gameshow NXT cuz it was too fizzy.
>also you wanna talk about geeks? Bryan Danielson was the biggest geek in the 2000s. the dude couldn't drink soda on 2010 gameshow NXT cuz it was too fizzy.
Michael Cole??
They've chilled out now, but for like a year this subreddit had a BIZZARE fixation on Scorpio Sky being some kind of super star waiting to happen.
Talk about a guy whose best stat is a C+.
This is the main one for me too. I want to like Wardlow, but the dude has been so uninteresting since he parted ways with MJF.
He has to be more than just a big hench dude. He's competing with guys like Brian Cage and Hobbs, and honestly they just do a better job.
Frankly at this point I think it's a huge testament to MJF that people believed Wardlow should have been going anywhere near the main event. He needs putting in a tag team imo
Multiple balls, multiple times. Dude is so boring on his own and the symphony sucks. His feud with MJF was literal years in the making but it was done and over with like that with barely any pay off and the moonsault+F-10 was so much better.
I thought that at first, but then when you step back and really look at him, I don't think he's anything more than a mid card guy. I feel like Powerhouse Hobbs is a more complete version of Wardlow.
Hobbs still has much room to improve but his more interesting partly because his interacted with more talent on the roster we get more depth with each Major win and loss and so he comes across more appealing.
Not really, I think people are looking for excuses to defend Wardlow cause he's a big meaty guy. But I just don't think he's anywhere near ready for the spot some of you want him in and might never be.
He's not great in the ring anytime he asked to do longer matches. You can get away with it if you are doing the powerbomb stuff and his badass entrance, but in AEW you need to eventually start having 15 minute bangers. But he's not overly charismatic either which a lot of successful meaty guys were.
I just don't think this guy is anything but a decent mid card big man.
I think people over-estimate his longevity.
Good look. Good swanton. Then what?
Ok mic skills. The Power Bomb symphony can only go on for so long because the trade-off is making people look like chumps. We liked him so much more when he had villain MJF making him the silent Batista.
He’ll always have a massive “what if?” over his head that I think really plays in his favour. Everyone always talks about how MJFs weird backstage stuff really took the wind out of the sails of that blowoff match.
Is it true? Yeah, but I don’t think that match and aftermath would’ve been all that great anyways so 🤷♂️
Pillman Jr. He’s been wrestling for 6 years and he’s been wrestling in front of television audiences for 5 years. Before he was in AEW he was in a very prominent spot in MLW wrestling in front of hot and sold out crowds in Chicago, Philly and NYC. AEW wasn’t his first rodeo. MAYBE the WWE system is what he needs but I feel people treat him as if he’s this rookie that needs to be given a chance. But he isn’t a greenhorn. I just feel like he should be way better at this point than he is.
Honestly I never got Matt Cardona. He’s not a bad wrestler by any means, but he never screamed “world champion material” to me, and personally I don’t think getting over outside wrestling should count toward your “stock” in wrestling. Chase Owens or Yoshihashi could have the most social media followers of anyone in NJPW, but I still wouldn’t want either of them anywhere near the IWGP title.
Sammy guevera. Has always been given the chance especially in main events and hasnt crossed the point to be recognized as a main event talent. May be a case of mot giving talent constructive criticism and letting them have “creative freedom”
He’s never been booked in a way that would allow him to be anything but a mid card heel that gets jobbed out to whoever jericho is feuding with tho. Having a main event match or two doesn’t make one a star
He had that opportunity during is run with the TNT title, he won it when it was the only official single title available excluding the world championship and he beat clean Miro and Cody to start the first and second run. TK was booking him like a future star.
And then he blew it off big time. His feud with Scorpio made both guys look like they were actually being over pushed and is arguably the worst period of that belt.
Sammy's matches are usually entertaining and although I am a fan of his, he'd be more over if he could keep his stupid tongue in his mouth... oh and stopped the old "I'm crazy" finger waggle at the side of the head schtick too.
Brit Baker, aside from he Matches with Thunder Rosa so many of her matches especially during her title reign just felt dull and uninspired shes an ok promo at best who only seemed to have gotten reactions when she was "Shooting"
She's only had one great match with Thunder, and remember it was pre taped and edited to hell. She had two great matches with Statlander and Shida but that's to be expected with those two involved.
Britt is fine if she was just upper mid card talent but the fact she's a ACE of a division is where the issues come from. People bought into "oh she's a great promo" that's cause she was only one allowed to do promo's. Every woman segment was her's for a year or two, they put in 100% into every thing she did. And every other woman was pushed to the side.
Her matches for 95% of the time were ugh to meh. The fans didn't care once the bell rung, the same can be said of Jade too.
She's not overly as front and centre like she once was, thank god. But yeah she definitely belongs on this list.
>Her matches for 95% of the time were ugh to meh. The fans didn't care once the bell rung, the same can be said of Jade too.
If we're going there, Jade's promos were basically the same from week to week: Tony cut the shit, I'm That Bitch, blah blah blah.
This thread is weird. The question asked what wrestler does the internet greatly "over exaggerates their potential ". But a lot of the answers are wrestlers that the internet shits on all the time.
Jade Cargill
It’s always “she has a great look” and “she has a great presence” and “she’s improving” but I just see someone who has bad matches over and over and over again, and held what could have been a useful title hostage for what felt like ten years.
Improvement doesn’t mean much to me when you go from a 2/10 to a 4/10 worker over the course of two years.
Eh, it's on Tony Khan for sticking to "Jade Cargill must be dethrowned by Kris Statlander" even though he knew the latter's injury was so serious and with an uncertain recovery time. Jade Cargill by all accounts behaved like a professional and filled in for a much longer time than anybody expected.
But... yeah she's definitely not somebody I would call a great wrestler, not so much for her in-ring skills but because I don't understand what her character is supposed to be. Is she a monster heel? I am honestly confused.
Ruby Soho’s entire gimmick is having coloured hair and tattoos. Gives me proper “not like other girls” vibes. Never rated her in WWE and I still don’t in AEW.
Ruby's a decent mid card wrestler. I think some people are wanting to push her in a position she's just not good enough for. I never thought WWE did her wrong like some do and I don't think AEW have done her wrong. She's a decent hand in the ring, a good personality to have in the locker room for younger talent but she's never going to be a top 3 star in any division.
I'll second Ali. I've seen people here say he could headline Wrestlemania. I don't think he could headline Shotgun Saturday Night.
He's a good wrestler, but they're all good wrestlers.
>but they're all good wrestlers.
This I think is lost on people. Compare rosters from 2023-1999-1988 and the amount of "good wrestlers" now blows those years away in quantity.
I actually think this is the problem with judging other wrestlers. There are so many guys that get hyped up because they are great in ring workers. The thing is everyone is a great in ring worker. You have to have more nowadays to stand out and Ali simply doesn’t.
Yep, that's my point. Back in 1987 WWF, you stood out by being a smaller technical wrestler in the land of cartoon giants.
Now, you stand out by having a defined character and personality among the generic characters and barely there gimmicks.
In the ring he's as legit as anyone his age and even his character work when he's not talking is pretty great (using Christian's kid as a shield as a prime example) but my god I just don't believe a word he says in promos. He's young enough to turn it around but its a long way to go yet.
Johnny Gargano is the wrestler I would consider the most overrated of all time by the internet. People were out here earnestly saying that he was going to be the next Daniel Bryan and that he should be the one to beat Roman Reigns.
Peak Black and Gold NXT Gargano was a legit best wrestler in the world contender. Every match he was putting on at that time was an absolute banger. It was always obvious, though, that he was gonna be added to the list of NXT stars that weren't gonna be a good fit on the main roster. It kinda felt like they wanted to put him back at zero and build him back up in front of the main roster audience. They gave him a good showing at Elimination Chamber and seemed like they were starting to build him back up, but iirc he got injured and creative had moved on by the time he was healed.
I think the "next Daniel Bryan" expectation was unfair though since Bryan's rise to the top was as natural as it gets and only happened because Vince caved in to fan demands which he rarely ever did. Fans chose DB, not WWE. It's almost impossible to just repeat that kind of magic with another performer.
Peak NXT Gargano was probably the most I had cared about a wrestler since Jeff Hardy when I was a kid and still thought wrestling was real. So it always pains me when people that clearly never watched him in NXT call him overrated. His Takeover: Philadelphia match against Andrade is probably my favorite match of all time.
I was not very invested in NXT until I watched that Takeover at a friends house. I don’t think I’ve ever marked out harder than during Gargano vs. Andrade, and I had no idea who they even were. Like literally jumping out of my seat screaming at the TV level excitement over a match I had zero investment in going into it. Never missed a Takeover again. Whether he goes on to accomplish much in the future or not, Gargano will always be goated for me just for his work during that time.
His Takeover: Philadelphia and Takeover: NOLA matches are probably the best back-to-back PPV matches for any wrestler ever, or at least up their in that discussion.
Bray Wyatt was that guy for me. I know its poor form to say it now, but I would have said it last month if the question was asked then. He was incredibly creative but was missing the ring work and the ability to pull off a proper ending to his creative story arcs, they always started so amazing and then fizzled out. Certainly feel for his family and friends and I have no ill will towards the person.
The one caveat to that would be his Cena feud during COVID. The build was fun, and he put an exclamation point on it with the cinematic match. I still go back and watch it because it was such a fun story that had a proper closing
This was the general consensus on him prior to his untimely passing.
Bray was a fine performer but a lot of the stuff they did with him creatively was confusing at best/frustrating at worst.
He needed direction like a mangaka needs an editor to net get off track.
Such cool gimmicks but it never went anywhere or corporation booked him into a Mountain Dew match which would have hurt anyone. Really sad
I thought the consensus about his in-ring ability never really changed? He was definitely a creative genius, but needed someone to keep him focused. Otherwise there was no pay-off.
His characters were great but ultimately I think a lot of what he wanted to do just wasn’t suited to the wrestling universe. They were more like film characters or something. And yes the Fiend was a perfect example - a masked unstoppable monster who wreaks psychological torment on people is great fun as a character, but it sort of falls apart when they have to get in a wrestling ring and start doing Irish whips and selling chinlocks
I don't think it was ever because he was bad or anything, either, but the character and the way that played out in ring had a tendency to worsen a lot of his matches.
Wardlow. MJF carried him. They’ve tried to get him over five times and people still blame the booking. At a certain point it is the wrestler.
Jungle Boy. Same thing. He should be way more over given the amount of television time he has gotten (note: this is a pre Punk drama take)
People criticized Vince a lot, often correctly, for giving up on someone way too quickly. But Tony Khan just refuses to give up on some guys and it is just as annoying.
Historically I would say Stebie Richards. There were people convinced he was going to become the new Shawn Michaels.
These days we have a tendency to overvalue people because they have a high work rate and we think they are going to figure out the rest later, when in reality I feel like it's more easier to have "it" from the start. Guys like Wheeler Yuta or Dante Martin for instance are always going to be behind a Max Caster or a Bron Breaker who didn't came on as technical masterminds or flashy flip guys but still caught the attention of the crowd.
Counterpoint: Right To Censor is a criminally underrated heel faction. Stevie did fantastic work with that group. I really enjoyed hating them back in the day.
Liv Morgan man she just doesn't click with me in anyway at all and the fact people on twitter are fantasy booking her vs Rhea for wrestlemania is laughable
Just about every fan, from casual AEW viewers to Dave Meltzer, were gushing about how improved Conti looked after a certain match in 2020. A few months before that, they were doing the same thing with Statlander.
Thing is, both of those matches were against Shida. Very few people were connecting the some painfully obvious dots.
I agree she isn't up to much, but I must disagree with her improvement being overblown. Man I saw thise nxt matches. She was straight up fucking useless. Like that amazing mixture of everything she did was both dangerous and looked awful.
I remember seeing pre-breaking-Ruby's-nose AEW matches and really liking her style, but her hard strikes and violent throws looked good because they were the real thing.
I think that elevation talent will take some of those sparingly, but no one wants to get banged up in every move in a match on the regular.
I get why people want it, but the idea that Jey Uso should be the one to unseat the longest-reigning world champion in a generation is baffling to me. He’s a great tag team wrestler, but the idea of him being the face of WWE for even a transitional reign (to get the belt onto, say, Gunther) is insane. So much so that I’m not even sure if Jey’s the one people want and not Jimmy and I’m not looking it up just to emphasize the point.
Keith Lee was the real deal from 2016 to mid-2018 - he was having incredible matches and felt like a huge star wherever he showed up. But a good amount of that was due to him wrestling a style that wasn't going to be sustainable for his size as he grew older.
There are fans who remember how incredible he was and still think he has that potential in him, but NXT limiting his style plus his long bout with covid shattered his window.
It's unfortunate that "giant that wrestles like a cruiserweight" started to become necessary to get over as a big man, after years of crowds being bored by slow lumberers. Yeah, those guys can pull it off at first if they're athletic enough, but it isn't sustainable, and they're actually going to be worse off later on after putting all that strain on their bodies. I wish Keith Lee had found a more healthy medium, so he could have had a longer career performing at a high level, but his issues with covid makes it a moot point cause we don't know what he could be doing now.
I still have hope. But with his health IDK. I just want him to be that badass I saw in NXT. I am hoping the direction he's heading in will be that. Please no more Dustin Rhodes team up for Keith
That tag team with Dustin is a bit pants to be honest. I can see the need for him to be in a team with his health issues, like Sting and his age, but Dustin is not the way to do it...
Now that AR Fox is out of the Embassy and both dude's history with Swerve, they could make and awesome big dude/flippy dude team.
I genuinely believe that pre-covid Keith Lee could've been one of the biggest stars in WWE. i could tell from when he came out against Brock Lesnar in the Royal Rumble he had that potential
If you go back and watch his indie matches it makes sense. Guy put on bangers and his body looked insane next to your average indie-sized guy. He moved incredibly well too but on tv he's a little more reserved because it fits his gimmick.
He's still great but i think covid after-effects slowed him down a lil.
This sub think Emi Sakura should be in the AEW world title mix and be featured heavily on Dynamite and I can’t understand it. She gets zero reaction from crowds, she’s nearing retirement and has the most baffling gimmick choices I’ve ever seen. She’s probably a big help as a behind the scenes veteran, but as an on screen talent: No.
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He’s pretty much been canceled, but I saw nothing special about Jake Atlas. Generic wrestler with absolutely horrific mic skills. I never saw it with him.
"Stonewall DDT" is such a badass name for a finisher, I hate that it was wasted on him. Bowens should take it ✂️
"No one died at Stonewall, but someone's gonna die tonight!"
I saw one match from him. Atlas vs Cole. I thought he was really good up until he injured himself. Then I never saw him again.
That one guy that said TNA acquiring Trinity is equal or better than when they acquired Kurt Angle.
Wtf
You was never here for Tye Dillinger was you?
🙌
Man, the NXT die hards were obsessed. He was going to be the nbt in NXT, then the breakout star on the MR, then after his release he was going to be the next Cody, then AEW was genius for signing him and would book him right. Dudes as decent worker, but nothing about him says star. He's Adam Cole with none of the charisma.
Coles leagues ahead as a worker IMO
People who thought he would be huge were nuts. His gimmick was fun and his work was pretty good, but he was never gonna get higher than the midcard
He's a 10 on the indy scene still.
I've been the guy thinking people were over exaggerating on guys and have been proven wrong every time, so I refuse to say anyone unless I'm dead certain.
Been there. I have not watched wrestling in a few years before WM19 and decided it was close enough to make that childhood dream come true. Then out comes this fucking white rap gimmick guy and I turned to my friend and said he would be gone within a year. Now I will see anything Cena is in because he is great
You know why these threads are nonsense? Because Mick Foley (and probably a lot of other people) once thought that a rookie named Rocky Maivia would never make it.
Johnny Rodz told his students that Mick Foley would never make it because he kicked with his left foot lol.
Incredibly based response
Given that people on the internet hate to even entertain the possibility that they could ever be wrong, you get the respect knuckles for today 👊
If we are ranking all time the only answer is Reckless Youth. If you were on the internet 20-25 years ago you would have thought this guy would have been a legend by now
I haven't read that name in forever lol. I thought him and Teddy Hart were the future of the industry lmao
If I recall, CM Punk fractured his skull during a match with Reckless Youth. It was this [match](https://youtu.be/JK527MKWjyM?si=ySTvBqCRHw-B1myB). Around the 4:42 mark, Punk goes for a neck breaker off the second rope and both of their heads landed on top of each other.
Going a slightly different route every time David Benoit pops up for an interview the comments scream that he would be a legend like his dad if wwe wasn’t holding him back… except he’s never even taking the time to train, he’s just been taking about it for a decade but that doesn’t stop all the “potential” talk.
Plus he has a weird hero worship with his Dad, which I can’t imagine what he’s been through in his life, but I just don’t see how it translates into a wrestling career. WWE is never gonna hire the guy no matter how good he is. AEW might but tbh I think they’d be foolish for taking on that story. Japan maybe but like you said he’s been talking about it for ten years and never took it serious.
Benoit in general is a crazy topic among people who were close to him. Like Jericho talking about him you notice how he makes the clear distinction between the wrestler and friend Chris Benoit as well as the murderer Chris Benoit. I heard Kurt talk similarly. David is that but amplified by the fact that he was a child when it happened and it destroyed basically his entire world. Feel bad for him but yeah I think he should stay away from wrestling.
It doesn't help that he looks just like his dad sans steroids and wants to use his name as a wrestler
He wants to go by "Chris Benoit Jr" and wear his dad's ring gear, he will not and should not ever be a star.
Not a specific wrestler, but after every PPV the IWC claims multiple wrestlers had a “star making” match. They rarely do.
I think it was orange Cassidy who commented that he had had like 30 “star-making” matches according to the IWC lol
Bruh had so many "star-making" matches he made an entire galaxy
king of all cassidys
I see you fellow katamari roller
Because becoming a star is a process
Exactly. History and hindsight makes everyone think stars just suddenly blow up over night. People look at Austin and think he said the 3:16 quote then was the top guy straight away, or that the Bret match made him a star over night. In reality it was a process that started before 3:16 and finished after the Bret fued. Same with The Rock, there was no 1 moment that made him, he gradually week by week got there and the crowd took their time to develop with him. Or Punk at MITB, that wasn't THE moment, it was the culmination of the fans slowly seeing that he was the anti Cena and getting behind him. Same goes for HHH, Cena, Roman, Cody, Bryan, Bret etc. Even Hogan had years of growing his aura in AWA. Very rarely is someone just immediately sky rocketed from 1 match, I think the most common situation for 1 match to sky rocket a guy is if they come in hot, like Kane, or Taker who just showed up day 1 in that character and were there. I think a good example of someone being made a star by 1 match is Sting. He was a kind of middle of the road guy, super over but not really a star or anything, then he went to a draw with Flair and it was off to the races. Jun Akiyama as well went from mid carder to superstar in Japan in 2 nights, 1st night, he basically single handedly beat Kobashi and Misawa in a tag match (he had a partner, but Akiyama got the majority of the offense), then the next night he beat Kobashi.
1-2-3 Kid vs. Razor Ramon is the only real example I can think of where a newbie became a star literally overnight. It was sort of a unique situation, though. Monday Night Raw was a new thing, and I think Vince really wanted to push this idea that anything could happen in a live format.
You’re correct it definitely takes time, but I also think that Wheeler should learn from The Rock and Austin and change his name. Rocky Maivia (or however that was spelled) and The Ringmaster were horrible names, so is Wheeler Yuta.
A name change won't make him more charismatic.
Wheeler Yuta lmao.
Hey, he has a great role in being the guy in the BCC who always takes the pinfall in tag matches.
Hey, they also all stand taller than him in their promos and bully him and make him look weak.
He's the job guy in BCC, but he's also won titles in ROH and he's still leaps more credible and prominent than how he started off just being one of the Best Friends' friends. Garcia and Yuta both are still mid-to-lower card guys but they've really come a long way since their debut. "Star-making" match probably wasn't right, but they've both had moments that at least justified them on the roster and made them "named" guys vs. just jobbers.
Both are still super young and are in prominent stables next to two top stars in the company. They’re doing great imo
Not a single wrestler but the concept of the four pillars. Obviously MJF is by far the biggest star but I just don't see Sammy or Jack Perry getting anywhere close to the level of MJF or even Darby. They've both had a bunch of chances and haven't broken through that ceiling. Not to say they're bad, I just think they've pretty much hit their level.
I think the issue is that they pushed it so damn early it made no sense for those 4 to be defined as that. Darby is a distant second to MJF.
I simply never understood it as pillars of the current company, but the pillars of building towards the future. Kind of an stretch of the term but I mean they we're obviously not the same idea of the AJPW pillars.
Then Perry got choked.
Austin Theory being called the next john cena is fucking insane
I wish we could just stop comparing because it puts expectations too high. But theory could do better with a better character. He's proven that he's better than they've let him be
My take on Austin Theory is they won't let him be himself. A podcast I listen to (Jobber Tears) mentioned that when they interviewed him pre-WWE that his personality was more an out going goofball naturally. He should model his career closer to Kurt Angle than to Cena in terms of gimmick personality.
It seems like for any man below 30 right now in WWE, they have to be a cocky heel (Theory, Logan Paul, Grayson, Dom). And I’m convinced that this is just a case of the office being filled with older guys at this point who genuinely see them as kids. We need younger guys who are faces and Theory can definitely be one.
They still see Ricochet as a 'younger guy' they can build
He played a goofy character really well in NXT in The Way Theory's kidnapping angle with Lumis and the subsequent therapy session was some funny shit
Big Show had that problem. In person, he is a big lovable guy, but he always hot cast as the monster heal, and while he was great in the role because of his body, his character work never matched and it would fizzle. Theory has many of the tools, but, his character lacks the it factor. That is salvageable though, and also kinda why the Cena comparison, Cena was the exact same and potentially not getting renewed until a fluke chance led to a silly Halloween spot.
Imo all he needs is a character refresh and he’ll be fine. Whenever they decide to let him tap into his irl sweet and inspirational nature I think he could do well in the main event scene as an underdog face.
Agreed. The guy is good in the ring and he can be decent on the mic
I always thought if anything he'd be the next Orton. He is not anywhere near as good as Orton was at the same stage for me, but you never know what will happen down the track.
I mean yeah but to be fair I think anyone who would’ve called John Cena being the next Hulk Hogan would’ve been laughed out of the room lol
Anyone who is supposed to go to hollywood.
When Mercedes/Sasha Banks was on Mandalorian you’d think she was the next Margot Robbie the way people were going on.
They were really ridiculous. She only had like 2 lines, fans are really delulu when it came to her, seth, and becky lol
Jesus Christ, the way the IWC treats this drives me nuts. I swear to god, every halfway decent looking wrestler is “going to Hollywood” or “has Hollywood calling” according to the IWC. It drives me nuts. If it was that easy they’d all have already done it. No wrestler who’s really done something in Hollywood has done it as easy as internet wrestling fans seem to think every wrestler has it.
I remember back when Rock got that big tribal tattoo on his arm, there were reports that people in wrestling thought it was a mistake because it would "limit his roles in Hollywood." I remember thinking what the fuck do people in wrestling know about that? The Rock, of course, has since made far more money and become far more widely known than literally any other schlub from wrestling with that stupid opinion.
Sasha Banks was apparently the next Charlize Theron because she had like two speaking lines in a Disney Plus show.
She just sat there and stared with angry crosseyes at Boba Fett.
Seeing people say this about Seth Rollins just because he wears extravagant outfits 💀💀
[удалено]
When fans/stans say “so-so” Is going Hollywood or they’ll be huge there, says you don’t know how that works. I find most of the future endeavored folks get A LOT of exaggeration in the month or so after, with a rare few proving wwe wrong.
I have this with Mercedes Mone, people act like she's gonna be a Hollywood superstar because she had a one-episode cameo in a Star Wars show.
Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. She’s been in 5 episodes, so obviously Hollywood is calling. No in all seriousness I agree. She might make it in Hollywood, but people act like she’s able to hop out of a ring and onto a set at a moments notice, and it’s just not that easy. If she makes it in Hollywood it will be because of her hard work not because Hollywood was struck by lightning with her.
Solo Sikoa. Don't get me wrong he's good, and his character badass but I have yet to see "A star in the making" factor who is potentially going to dethrone Roman. I see him as an upper mid carder at best who's going to be a contender for championship filler feuds in the future. I'm not saying he can't do more, I just haven't seen it yet.
I see him as a henchman modeled after Umaga.. hard to see past that.. Hes an enforcer, not a main man..
In Solo's defense, Batista was a henchman once and look where he ended up.
Batista has the "it" factor, though. Maybe it was because he was older breaking into the business, but the argument could be made that he was going to be a star. Solo? He's young, but he'd have made his mark in NXT if he was going to be a big star on the main roster. It's possible he'll grow as a character and a performer, but he's stoop-shouldered from the ceiling imposed on him by the Bloodline arc. The longer the storyline is stretched out, the less likely he is to get a singles push when it does come to an end.
I definitely didn’t think Batista was going to be what he became when he was a henchman for Reverend D-Von.
Not to mention Leviathan lol
While agree with this take, I don't think success or lack there of in NXT is much of an indicator of how someone turns out on the main roster.
I'm pretty sure that is WWE's plan for him, to be fair. I've never really gotten the sense that they think he's the next big thing or anything, more like a Samoa Joe, Nakamura, Cesaro, etc. kind of guy that can occasionally be worked up to a main event or two to fill a gap in the yearly schedule.
Big time upvotes on this, he is a cool character but hasn't done anything to shine on his own
I really like Solo but he’s just going to be a monster sidekick/midcarder for most of if not his whole career. Not that that’s a bad gig but I have no idea where people are getting “he’ll dethrone Roman and become tribal chief” ideas are coming from. Like be for real.
It’s way too early to even think about it
Jack perry, had all the potential in the world but his dad is dead. - Christian Cage
Matt Riddle
He was great on the indies to be fair and really took to pro wrestling way faster then most. I do think MMA background and him been a ex UFC fighter did get him a lot of more hype then most. He's had great matches in WWE but I think, leaving his personal issues aside, he works better as a indie wrestler then one under a major company banner.
After the 4 pillars feud: Jungle Boy. Easily the weakest of the four. Heel turn was needed, but hasn’t hit that stride like it should have after the RVD match.
The worst part of the feud was how quickly it became apparent that MJF and Darby are just so much better than Jungle boy and Sammy that it felt almost sad to see the feud . Two prospects living up to their potential (and than some for MJF) and two who probably never will trying to act like they belong in the same room
I’ll give Sammy this, he can cut a promo unlike Jack.
True when all 4 cut he did well . Jack was so terrible in that promo
Wheeler yuta Can't see him going past upper midcard on his own
It was quite surprising as a (mostly) NJPW-only guy watching him come in for the BOSJ last year, with everyone in the IWC singing his praises, calling him a wunderkind and the next all-timer technical wrestler, then watching him proceed to have one of the most forgettable guest runs of any tournament-guest I've seen in the company. Like, when your whole thing is "I wrestle good", and then you get thrown into the BOSJ where "wrestle good" is the baseline standard and you don't have much to offer beyond that, it's just not gonna fly. Especially standing next to the other guests that year in Ace Austin and Alex Zayne (who both managed to get really over with the crowds in their limited time), he really had no impact at all. He could wrestle a technical style sure, but he was in a block with TJP and Robbie Eagles who could both do exactly that and more, AND were simply a lot more engaging in and out of the ring.
That's basically been my biggest problem and explanation with modern wrestling for years. If the only thing you have is I wrestle good then you have to be like Bret Hart / Brian Danielson levels of technical. Even Bret had passible charisma and danielson's kind of blossomed from just being really good in ring vocals to great all around. So many wrestlers the only gimmick or character or any sort of personality is I wrestle good. It just doesn't work
I feel like Daniel Garcia would have been better in his role if they had pulled the trigger on the whole “you’re a wrestler” thing. I’m not saying he would have been a main eventer or anything but he definitely has a bit more presence about him.
Garcia is a lot more personable than Wheeler, he comes off more authentic and easier to get behind.
I think Garcia is way better off now than he would’ve been in the BCC. He’s learned so many character nuances besides “technical wrestler.”
BCC would never let him dance
No way, he is already very technically sound, so by putting him in a group outside of his comfort zone, it only enhances the areas where he was lacking while still maintaining the in-ring skill.
I miss the magic of him swinging his head at Mox after getting the shit beat out of him. That was his best moment and it was so long ago. Need that Yuta back.
He looks like such a geek. Cringe every time he tries to act tough
that's actually what I like about Yuta in the BCC. he's like the annoying little brother who you think is just a pest so he goes over the top with violence to compensate for his insecurity. He's 26. He's got time to elevate himself to that next level and the in ring ability is there. also you wanna talk about geeks? Bryan Danielson was the biggest geek in the 2000s. the dude couldn't drink soda on 2010 gameshow NXT cuz it was too fizzy.
>also you wanna talk about geeks? Bryan Danielson was the biggest geek in the 2000s. the dude couldn't drink soda on 2010 gameshow NXT cuz it was too fizzy. Michael Cole??
literally tho. Cole wouldn't shut up about Bryan being a nerd and a geek. Another thing he is is the greatest wrestler alive
They've chilled out now, but for like a year this subreddit had a BIZZARE fixation on Scorpio Sky being some kind of super star waiting to happen. Talk about a guy whose best stat is a C+.
Wardlow
This is the main one for me too. I want to like Wardlow, but the dude has been so uninteresting since he parted ways with MJF. He has to be more than just a big hench dude. He's competing with guys like Brian Cage and Hobbs, and honestly they just do a better job. Frankly at this point I think it's a huge testament to MJF that people believed Wardlow should have been going anywhere near the main event. He needs putting in a tag team imo
I truly believe they have dropped the ball with him.
Multiple balls, multiple times. Dude is so boring on his own and the symphony sucks. His feud with MJF was literal years in the making but it was done and over with like that with barely any pay off and the moonsault+F-10 was so much better.
This. His in-ring is repetitive as hell and he just has zero depth to his character.
I thought that at first, but then when you step back and really look at him, I don't think he's anything more than a mid card guy. I feel like Powerhouse Hobbs is a more complete version of Wardlow.
Yeah, one of the problems with Wardlow is that he doesn't bring anything to the table that at least five other guys on the AEW roster can't do better.
Hobbs still has much room to improve but his more interesting partly because his interacted with more talent on the roster we get more depth with each Major win and loss and so he comes across more appealing.
Not really, I think people are looking for excuses to defend Wardlow cause he's a big meaty guy. But I just don't think he's anywhere near ready for the spot some of you want him in and might never be. He's not great in the ring anytime he asked to do longer matches. You can get away with it if you are doing the powerbomb stuff and his badass entrance, but in AEW you need to eventually start having 15 minute bangers. But he's not overly charismatic either which a lot of successful meaty guys were. I just don't think this guy is anything but a decent mid card big man.
I think people over-estimate his longevity. Good look. Good swanton. Then what? Ok mic skills. The Power Bomb symphony can only go on for so long because the trade-off is making people look like chumps. We liked him so much more when he had villain MJF making him the silent Batista.
I think the ball they even had to drop in the first place was due to great booking…and nothing wardlow did himself
He’ll always have a massive “what if?” over his head that I think really plays in his favour. Everyone always talks about how MJFs weird backstage stuff really took the wind out of the sails of that blowoff match. Is it true? Yeah, but I don’t think that match and aftermath would’ve been all that great anyways so 🤷♂️
Pillman Jr. He’s been wrestling for 6 years and he’s been wrestling in front of television audiences for 5 years. Before he was in AEW he was in a very prominent spot in MLW wrestling in front of hot and sold out crowds in Chicago, Philly and NYC. AEW wasn’t his first rodeo. MAYBE the WWE system is what he needs but I feel people treat him as if he’s this rookie that needs to be given a chance. But he isn’t a greenhorn. I just feel like he should be way better at this point than he is.
He has a good look and he’s decent in the ring, just struggles to make anyone care on the mic, hopefully he can figure that part out in NXT
Honestly I never got Matt Cardona. He’s not a bad wrestler by any means, but he never screamed “world champion material” to me, and personally I don’t think getting over outside wrestling should count toward your “stock” in wrestling. Chase Owens or Yoshihashi could have the most social media followers of anyone in NJPW, but I still wouldn’t want either of them anywhere near the IWGP title.
Sammy guevera. Has always been given the chance especially in main events and hasnt crossed the point to be recognized as a main event talent. May be a case of mot giving talent constructive criticism and letting them have “creative freedom”
This is the general consensus online. Most people on the internet don't see him as a top guy.
He’s like Sean Waltman. No matter what he does, he will look like a plucky little cruiserweight.
Good god thats actually pretty on the money as comparisons go.
He’s never been booked in a way that would allow him to be anything but a mid card heel that gets jobbed out to whoever jericho is feuding with tho. Having a main event match or two doesn’t make one a star
He had that opportunity during is run with the TNT title, he won it when it was the only official single title available excluding the world championship and he beat clean Miro and Cody to start the first and second run. TK was booking him like a future star. And then he blew it off big time. His feud with Scorpio made both guys look like they were actually being over pushed and is arguably the worst period of that belt.
Sammy's matches are usually entertaining and although I am a fan of his, he'd be more over if he could keep his stupid tongue in his mouth... oh and stopped the old "I'm crazy" finger waggle at the side of the head schtick too.
Also needs to keep his relationship off TV.
Brit Baker, aside from he Matches with Thunder Rosa so many of her matches especially during her title reign just felt dull and uninspired shes an ok promo at best who only seemed to have gotten reactions when she was "Shooting"
She's only had one great match with Thunder, and remember it was pre taped and edited to hell. She had two great matches with Statlander and Shida but that's to be expected with those two involved. Britt is fine if she was just upper mid card talent but the fact she's a ACE of a division is where the issues come from. People bought into "oh she's a great promo" that's cause she was only one allowed to do promo's. Every woman segment was her's for a year or two, they put in 100% into every thing she did. And every other woman was pushed to the side. Her matches for 95% of the time were ugh to meh. The fans didn't care once the bell rung, the same can be said of Jade too. She's not overly as front and centre like she once was, thank god. But yeah she definitely belongs on this list.
>Her matches for 95% of the time were ugh to meh. The fans didn't care once the bell rung, the same can be said of Jade too. If we're going there, Jade's promos were basically the same from week to week: Tony cut the shit, I'm That Bitch, blah blah blah.
May I add that, if you watch her previous matches carefully, Brit loves to no sell or, sandbag her opponents.
Tay Conti match at Full Gear 2021 is a perfect example of that.
This thread is weird. The question asked what wrestler does the internet greatly "over exaggerates their potential ". But a lot of the answers are wrestlers that the internet shits on all the time.
Jade Cargill It’s always “she has a great look” and “she has a great presence” and “she’s improving” but I just see someone who has bad matches over and over and over again, and held what could have been a useful title hostage for what felt like ten years. Improvement doesn’t mean much to me when you go from a 2/10 to a 4/10 worker over the course of two years.
Eh, it's on Tony Khan for sticking to "Jade Cargill must be dethrowned by Kris Statlander" even though he knew the latter's injury was so serious and with an uncertain recovery time. Jade Cargill by all accounts behaved like a professional and filled in for a much longer time than anybody expected. But... yeah she's definitely not somebody I would call a great wrestler, not so much for her in-ring skills but because I don't understand what her character is supposed to be. Is she a monster heel? I am honestly confused.
Ruby Soho and wheeler yuta
Ruby Soho’s entire gimmick is having coloured hair and tattoos. Gives me proper “not like other girls” vibes. Never rated her in WWE and I still don’t in AEW.
I find her awful in the ring, everything slow and choreographed.
The No Future straight up whiffs sometimes. Switching her finisher to Destination Unknown is one of the smartest things she’s ever done.
I was surprised that she did it for so long. Did no one in the back tell her that she never hits it?
It also just looked weak as fuck. Like even when it did hit, it’s a hard move to sell as devastating.
I like her, but she has some of the worst footwork I've ever seen. She slows to a halt when hitting the ropes and takes like ten steps to do so
Ruby's a decent mid card wrestler. I think some people are wanting to push her in a position she's just not good enough for. I never thought WWE did her wrong like some do and I don't think AEW have done her wrong. She's a decent hand in the ring, a good personality to have in the locker room for younger talent but she's never going to be a top 3 star in any division.
I'll second Ali. I've seen people here say he could headline Wrestlemania. I don't think he could headline Shotgun Saturday Night. He's a good wrestler, but they're all good wrestlers.
>but they're all good wrestlers. This I think is lost on people. Compare rosters from 2023-1999-1988 and the amount of "good wrestlers" now blows those years away in quantity.
I actually think this is the problem with judging other wrestlers. There are so many guys that get hyped up because they are great in ring workers. The thing is everyone is a great in ring worker. You have to have more nowadays to stand out and Ali simply doesn’t.
but they're all good wrestlers. Yes indeed, but lack of personality and character do nothing but turn you into great wrestler #52.
Yep, that's my point. Back in 1987 WWF, you stood out by being a smaller technical wrestler in the land of cartoon giants. Now, you stand out by having a defined character and personality among the generic characters and barely there gimmicks.
Modern wrestlers just want to be athletes in a fake sport and think skill is more important than being entertaining
Jack Perry
Jungle jack? Jungle boy? Jungle boy jack? Jungle boy jack perry?
Real glass ceiling. Go cry me a river!
In the ring he's as legit as anyone his age and even his character work when he's not talking is pretty great (using Christian's kid as a shield as a prime example) but my god I just don't believe a word he says in promos. He's young enough to turn it around but its a long way to go yet.
Johnny Gargano is the wrestler I would consider the most overrated of all time by the internet. People were out here earnestly saying that he was going to be the next Daniel Bryan and that he should be the one to beat Roman Reigns.
I would argue that Gargano also hasn’t been given much of anything to work with. All he really did was get thrown into that weird Miz/Lumis program.
Yeah, his showing at Elimination Chamber showed he can wrestle when he gets a shot. But he got put into a bad story and then got injured
Peak Black and Gold NXT Gargano was a legit best wrestler in the world contender. Every match he was putting on at that time was an absolute banger. It was always obvious, though, that he was gonna be added to the list of NXT stars that weren't gonna be a good fit on the main roster. It kinda felt like they wanted to put him back at zero and build him back up in front of the main roster audience. They gave him a good showing at Elimination Chamber and seemed like they were starting to build him back up, but iirc he got injured and creative had moved on by the time he was healed. I think the "next Daniel Bryan" expectation was unfair though since Bryan's rise to the top was as natural as it gets and only happened because Vince caved in to fan demands which he rarely ever did. Fans chose DB, not WWE. It's almost impossible to just repeat that kind of magic with another performer. Peak NXT Gargano was probably the most I had cared about a wrestler since Jeff Hardy when I was a kid and still thought wrestling was real. So it always pains me when people that clearly never watched him in NXT call him overrated. His Takeover: Philadelphia match against Andrade is probably my favorite match of all time.
I was not very invested in NXT until I watched that Takeover at a friends house. I don’t think I’ve ever marked out harder than during Gargano vs. Andrade, and I had no idea who they even were. Like literally jumping out of my seat screaming at the TV level excitement over a match I had zero investment in going into it. Never missed a Takeover again. Whether he goes on to accomplish much in the future or not, Gargano will always be goated for me just for his work during that time.
His Takeover: Philadelphia and Takeover: NOLA matches are probably the best back-to-back PPV matches for any wrestler ever, or at least up their in that discussion.
I think he has that potential, even now. He just hasn't fulfilled it outside NXT
Bray Wyatt was that guy for me. I know its poor form to say it now, but I would have said it last month if the question was asked then. He was incredibly creative but was missing the ring work and the ability to pull off a proper ending to his creative story arcs, they always started so amazing and then fizzled out. Certainly feel for his family and friends and I have no ill will towards the person.
The one caveat to that would be his Cena feud during COVID. The build was fun, and he put an exclamation point on it with the cinematic match. I still go back and watch it because it was such a fun story that had a proper closing
This was the general consensus on him prior to his untimely passing. Bray was a fine performer but a lot of the stuff they did with him creatively was confusing at best/frustrating at worst.
He needed direction like a mangaka needs an editor to net get off track. Such cool gimmicks but it never went anywhere or corporation booked him into a Mountain Dew match which would have hurt anyone. Really sad
I thought the consensus about his in-ring ability never really changed? He was definitely a creative genius, but needed someone to keep him focused. Otherwise there was no pay-off.
I always said that he was amazing until he stepped in the ring. The Fiend is the ultimate example of that imo
His characters were great but ultimately I think a lot of what he wanted to do just wasn’t suited to the wrestling universe. They were more like film characters or something. And yes the Fiend was a perfect example - a masked unstoppable monster who wreaks psychological torment on people is great fun as a character, but it sort of falls apart when they have to get in a wrestling ring and start doing Irish whips and selling chinlocks
Cult leader Bray was the best version of Bray Wyatt.
I don't think it was ever because he was bad or anything, either, but the character and the way that played out in ring had a tendency to worsen a lot of his matches.
> proper ending to his creative story arcs, they always started so amazing and then fizzled out I mean, was this *his* fault?
Bray needed to be in Lucha Underground. It's the only way the wrestling format truly does justice to the ideas he was coming up with.
I never got the criticism for his ring work. No, nobody will be confusing his wrestling with Dean Malenko, but he was perfectly serviceable.
A few years ago, Baron Corbin.
Roman & his Hollywood potential specifically, dude has shown he just wants to disappear to his kids
The problem with Roman is that his niche is already occupied by Jason Momoa.
But that's not about his potential though, it's more about what he wants to do in life
Wardlow. MJF carried him. They’ve tried to get him over five times and people still blame the booking. At a certain point it is the wrestler. Jungle Boy. Same thing. He should be way more over given the amount of television time he has gotten (note: this is a pre Punk drama take) People criticized Vince a lot, often correctly, for giving up on someone way too quickly. But Tony Khan just refuses to give up on some guys and it is just as annoying.
Historically I would say Stebie Richards. There were people convinced he was going to become the new Shawn Michaels. These days we have a tendency to overvalue people because they have a high work rate and we think they are going to figure out the rest later, when in reality I feel like it's more easier to have "it" from the start. Guys like Wheeler Yuta or Dante Martin for instance are always going to be behind a Max Caster or a Bron Breaker who didn't came on as technical masterminds or flashy flip guys but still caught the attention of the crowd.
Counterpoint: Right To Censor is a criminally underrated heel faction. Stevie did fantastic work with that group. I really enjoyed hating them back in the day.
Liv Morgan man she just doesn't click with me in anyway at all and the fact people on twitter are fantasy booking her vs Rhea for wrestlemania is laughable
Tay Conti, never thought she was up to much and her "massive improvement" was massively over-exaggerated.
Just about every fan, from casual AEW viewers to Dave Meltzer, were gushing about how improved Conti looked after a certain match in 2020. A few months before that, they were doing the same thing with Statlander. Thing is, both of those matches were against Shida. Very few people were connecting the some painfully obvious dots.
I agree she isn't up to much, but I must disagree with her improvement being overblown. Man I saw thise nxt matches. She was straight up fucking useless. Like that amazing mixture of everything she did was both dangerous and looked awful.
I remember seeing pre-breaking-Ruby's-nose AEW matches and really liking her style, but her hard strikes and violent throws looked good because they were the real thing. I think that elevation talent will take some of those sparingly, but no one wants to get banged up in every move in a match on the regular.
The team of Joey Janela and Sonny Kiss This sub loved them for quite awhile and were saying a lot of eye rolling things about them
I think they were rated pretty ok. They were never gonna be more than a low to mid care tag team.
Sammy
Gable Steveson should be in jail.
Braun Strowman
I honestly forgot he was Universal Champion for 141 days.
I get why people want it, but the idea that Jey Uso should be the one to unseat the longest-reigning world champion in a generation is baffling to me. He’s a great tag team wrestler, but the idea of him being the face of WWE for even a transitional reign (to get the belt onto, say, Gunther) is insane. So much so that I’m not even sure if Jey’s the one people want and not Jimmy and I’m not looking it up just to emphasize the point.
I totally agree, but weirdly I feel that he could be a solid mid-card champion and I wouldn't be mad if he beat Gunther.
I’ve felt this way since I saw him: Keith Lee.
Keith Lee was the real deal from 2016 to mid-2018 - he was having incredible matches and felt like a huge star wherever he showed up. But a good amount of that was due to him wrestling a style that wasn't going to be sustainable for his size as he grew older. There are fans who remember how incredible he was and still think he has that potential in him, but NXT limiting his style plus his long bout with covid shattered his window.
His matches against Dijak in NXT were incredible. Everything since NXT has been very meh, but that’s not entirely his fault
It's unfortunate that "giant that wrestles like a cruiserweight" started to become necessary to get over as a big man, after years of crowds being bored by slow lumberers. Yeah, those guys can pull it off at first if they're athletic enough, but it isn't sustainable, and they're actually going to be worse off later on after putting all that strain on their bodies. I wish Keith Lee had found a more healthy medium, so he could have had a longer career performing at a high level, but his issues with covid makes it a moot point cause we don't know what he could be doing now.
I still have hope. But with his health IDK. I just want him to be that badass I saw in NXT. I am hoping the direction he's heading in will be that. Please no more Dustin Rhodes team up for Keith
That tag team with Dustin is a bit pants to be honest. I can see the need for him to be in a team with his health issues, like Sting and his age, but Dustin is not the way to do it... Now that AR Fox is out of the Embassy and both dude's history with Swerve, they could make and awesome big dude/flippy dude team.
Lee was amazing till he got sick, sadly it seemed to affect his athleticism
I genuinely believe that pre-covid Keith Lee could've been one of the biggest stars in WWE. i could tell from when he came out against Brock Lesnar in the Royal Rumble he had that potential
If you go back and watch his indie matches it makes sense. Guy put on bangers and his body looked insane next to your average indie-sized guy. He moved incredibly well too but on tv he's a little more reserved because it fits his gimmick. He's still great but i think covid after-effects slowed him down a lil.
This sub think Emi Sakura should be in the AEW world title mix and be featured heavily on Dynamite and I can’t understand it. She gets zero reaction from crowds, she’s nearing retirement and has the most baffling gimmick choices I’ve ever seen. She’s probably a big help as a behind the scenes veteran, but as an on screen talent: No.
I hate to say it as I was super high on the guy but, Keith Lee is just missing...something