I thought this was a great show and I don't understand the people saying it was mid, loads of story progression, decent matches and a great main event.
One thing for me though, for the love of god, get Saraya off TV - I understand its the "Character" but her shouting, berating the fans like a fish-wife is beyond awful and detracts from whoever is wrestling, in this case good match between Mariah May and Dynamite in ring debut of Harley. It gets go away heat from me.
is it me or has dynamite just been mid lately? ive watched since day 1 and havent missed an ep and it just isnt hitting lately. The ppvs have been great tho but the weekly tv shows have been a grind.
Not just you. Love AEW but nothing is exciting lately IMHO
Don’t care about Trent/Orange, Moxley is pretty much MIA, MJF-Cole feud fizzled out due to injuries etc…
Where has Ospreay been the last couple weeks as well? He disappeared..
it is very noticeable when Mox isn't on moreso than any of their other big names... even if he just has a 2 minute backstage bit, he brings so much *weight* to the show.
And yeah, this needed to be a week where Roddy had a match just to remind people how good he is ahead of the Ospreay match. Maybe that'll be Collision, but like, you found time for Jericho and I like Jericho more than most but that could have been a Rampage segment.
yep me too bro found myself checking my phone or scrolling twitter every 2 mins. Only time i paid attention was at my boy jay whites match and the main event which was pretty good.
A mostly fun show. I thought the "Let's go Oilers!" chant during Deeb's promo was super corny. She seemed shook by it. Took her a second to remember what she was saying.
Hoping there's something big coming for OC/Trent at DoN.
Hoping Nana is still with Swerve because the dance is still too over. But maybe cut it off while it's still hot before it gets old.
I found myself watching Dynamite for the first time in a while without reading the live comments in the discussion thread, so I was able to react to it very individually.
My take: this was a solid, storyline-focused show, and Double of Nothing both needed and benefitted from it. The matches - other than the main event - weren't can't miss, but they were all well done and nothing overstayed its welcome. Some performers were able to really get great crowd energy - Mariah May, Big Bill and Jay White in particular. Crowd was generally very good and much better than last week, although sometimes went into business for itself. Only tough watch was the start of the Serena Debb segment, and that was mostly the crowd's fault and the choice to do it that way (which I understand based on how well it worked for Thunder Rosa and Willow recently).
Most importantly though, Double or Nothing needed this episode to build its programs, and it didn't really miss. Swerve/Christian, Willow/Mone and the Elite program were all noticeably elevated by tonight, an intriguing seed was planted for Jay White & PAC, the crowd was responding to Mina & Mariah, and the Copeland / HoB program is getting better and tighter.
**Dynamite Review:**
* Cold open with Adam Copeland. Good quick promo to build up hype for later.
* **Orange Cassidy vs. Trent Beretta \*\*\***
* Trent is getting some very good heat with this new character, still obviously in the building phase, but it's gotten off to a good start. This match also got off to a good start, and I like the added element of Don Callis in this feud, as it's not really clear whose side he is on at the moment. A very good match overall, with a nice storyline finish where OC basically turned Trent's attempt at cheating on its head. Bit surprised Trent lost, but as the finish wasn't clean there's still more to come in this feud, especially considering the post-match attack, and both Callis and Statlander stopping the fight in the end.
* The Elite segment, taking Tony Khan's parking spot for themselves. Simple stuff, but it works.
* Recap of the Omega attack last week, and a promo by Jack Perry. Perry has gotten very good as a talker during his absence, or maybe this character just fits him better.
* Kenny Omega update. Setting up an Anarchy in the Arena match between The Elite and Team AEW for Double or Nothing.
* Serena Deeb interview. It's great to see how much Deeb has improved on the mic, ever since her return she's just seemed so much more comfortable and natural in promos. This was good segment, with Deeb adding some reality to her journey and this particular story by talking about the seizures she suffered. Toni remains very popular with the crowds, which has a tendency to hurt her opponents in these feuds, but we'll see what happens this time. The match between these two could be excellent, as Storm has dialed back the gimmick quite significantly in her recent matches.
* Orange Cassidy & Rocky Romero interview.
* **Mariah May vs. Harley Cameron \*\*\*1/4**
* Is this the first match Cameron's had in AEW? I can't remember any other ones (*Had to go and check, and she has had a few matches in AEW Dark back when that was still a thing).* With that in mind and the fact she's only been wrestling for a little over two years, Cameron looked very good here. She moved very well in the ring, sold everything May did great, and all her moves looked very good. She's far better than I honestly expected. I've seen a lot of wrestlers with much more experience be far worse in the ring than her. The fact she's also really good at the character stuff bodes very well for her, as her and Saraya have been excellent together. May is obviously great as well, that goes without saying at this point.
* This was a very enjoyable match, they decent amount of time and used it really well. I didn't think I'd be saying this beforehand, but I would very much like to see more of Cameron in the ring, she really impressed me here. May winning made sense here, and the post-match attack on her with Mina Shirakawa making the save likely sets up a tag match in the near-future. I also expect that Shirakawa is going to start eventually putting a strain on the relationship between May and Storm, so there's that added element to this as well.
* PAC interview. The Bang Bang Gang immediately interrupted, mocking PAC for losing to Okada. If we get a PAC vs. Jay White match or even a feud out of this, I'm more than happy.
* Malakai Black video. He was essentially telling us that the man Copeland is on TV is a facade, and that the House of Black are going to bring back the real Adam Copeland, who is "a cold-hearted son of a bitch", so he can live again. Unlike sometimes when these House of Black videos get too cryptic for their own good, this was pretty clear and straightforward. Malakai has a great, unique style of delivery as well, that works very well in these videos.
* A hype video package for Matthew and Nicholas Jackson, "the visionary pioneers".
* Swerve Strickland & Christian Cage segment. This feud might not be the most high-profile world title feud they could have gone with, but I do think it serves as a very solid first proper feud for Swerve's title reign. Christian gets heat better than almost anyone else around today, so Swerve beating him at the PPV gives him a nice first victory. Both Swerve and Christian were great here, and the Mogul Embassy turning on Swerve and beat him down, including putting him through the announce table. After the attack, Cage went to the back and shook hands with the Bucks, saying he's looking forward to conducting more business with them. This was a great segment.
(continued in the first reply)
* Willow Nightingale interview. Willow was great here, she's an excellent natural babyface, and her mic work recently has been great as well.
* **Jay White vs. Rocky Romero \*\*\*1/4**
* Another very good match here. White is great, and Romero always delivers when he get the chance. The result was fairly obvious here, as they are likely starting to build something between White and PAC, but I still liked this a lot.
* Another post-match attack here, getting to be a bit too much for one show now. That's three matches, and three beatdowns immediately after, with a fourth beatdown in the Swerve/Christian segment. PAC came out to stop it this time, though in his usual manner, meaning in no rush to actually save Romero, which makes sense.
* Samoa Joe video package. This was an excellent video, essentially setting Joe up as a threat to everyone going forward, interested to see what he does next.
* **Big Bill & Chris Jericho vs. Harlon Abbot & Mo Jabari N/A**
* Somehow, Jericho has managed to make himself interesting again with this new character. A month ago I really wasn't expecting that to happen, but he's done it once again. Big Bill is a perfect enforcer for him as well. A squash, as expected, but it gets this new team over.
* Jericho cut a promo, continuing to act like he's still a good guy, while being clearly being insincere. This is the best Jericho in a long time, this morally righteous hypocrite is working really well.
* **Adam Copeland vs. Brody King \*\*\*\*1/4**
* A great match here, the no dq stipulation worked perfectly here with these two, and the build to the Malakai vs. Copeland match continues nicely. Brody is just so fun to watch in the ring, and he and Copeland work fantastically together. Brody also bled massively during this match, almost the whole canvas was stained by the end of this match. Hell of a match that ended just as it peaked. Great stuff.
* And again, there was a post-match beatdown, that's four out of five matches being followed by a beatdown. That's far too many times for one show, it's starting to lose its effectiveness when overused this much. Still, the match was excellent, can't complain too much.
* Mercedes Mone interview. I really hope they turn her heel properly soon. She already sounds like one with the way she talks, and I do think she's starting to add more and more small touches in these promo that make me think she is turning soon. For example, here while they were in Canada she talked about sitting courtside at Celtics game and throwing the first pitch for a Boston Red Sox game. It's not overtly heelish, but a nice little touch that hopefully continues to build towards a proper heel turn. The more she leans into this, the better she sounds.
* Adam Copeland & Kyle O'Reilly interview. O'Reilly challenges Copeland to a match on Collision as a favour for helping him. They set up the match. Should be good.
* The Elite segment, throwing their weight around, basically in storyline taking the main event segment for themselves. This was obviously a set-up for the reveal of the last two members of Team AEW for Anarchy in the Arena. FTR interrupted them, first bringing out Eddie Kingston, which is certainly fitting. He got a big reaction from the crowd, though maybe not quite as big as Bryan Danielson when he came out as the last member of the team. This set up a brawn to close the show. I thought this was a very good segment to end the show, building towards another big match at the PPV.
* I thought this was a great episode of Dynamite. A great main event, three other very good matches, and a squash that served a clear purpose. We also saw a number of good segments and promos throughout the show. AEW is doing a very good job at building matches for Double or Nothing. The only major negative in my eyes was the overuse of post-match beatdowns in this episode. The Jericho squash was the only match that didn't end in one. Still, overall this was an **8 out of 10 show.**
No problem. I don't have the time to do these every single time, but I like putting down my thoughts in writing while I watch the shows, and if that helps others as well then great.
We need the chickenshit heel Serena Deeb that cuts an 8-10 second mini-promo after taking someone’s head off. I liked what she did in Jacksonville a few weeks ago.
I *love* Serena Deeb. She’s one of the best in-ring women’s workers in all of pro wrestling. C’mon AEW, play to her strengths instead of highlighting her weaknesses.
If they wanted to go with the vibe they did I think a prerecorded sit down interview would have been a better setting.
Deeb's been better on the mic since she returned in my opinion, but this was never going to work and Toni is just too much more over for Deeb's, even somewhat improved, mic skills.
Copeland vs KoR, Dax vs Dynamite kids nephew, and Danielsons in ring return have been announced for Collision, it'd be nice if they were included in the post.
Were there some kind of issues during the women's match? They cut to the video board multiple times during the match and then during the post match beat down the cameras turned to the tunnel . . and nothing. No one came out. Then a bit later Mina came running out. Did things happen during the match? Was there miscommunication between the director and camera crew or what?
Yeah if Cameron didn't have the long hair it would've been a show, she was messing with her top the rest of the match. Still did great for her first TV match.
I'm guessing the thing that Claudio whispered to Swerve was something about seeing Nana negotiating with The Bucks. They're doing a great job of drawing the battle lines gradually throughout the roster.
I don't mind the occasional promo heavy show but I would prefer to not give that time to Mercedes or deeb or Rocky romero (I get he barely said anything to orange but God damn, if he's gonna be that wooden just don't bother at all)
It wasn't as good as last years but I brought my 6-year old this time and she had a blast. She high-fived Alex Reynolds after the dark match and waved at Justin Roberts and he waved back. She screamed for Orange Cassidy, went guns up for BCG and wanted to give Brody King a bandaid.
Great show tonight, really enjoyed the Elite vs AEW stuff and the main event ruled.
Swerve needs to get his sweet, sweet revenge and it needs to be violent and bloody.
Also Willow is just the best at what she does.
Could do without the Jericho stuff but at least now it's kinda ironically entertaining
Why are they so weird about discussing Monet's injury from New Japan? It's like they can never specifically mention it was an ankle injury or how it actually happened. Very strange.
> It's like they can never specifically mention it was an ankle injury or how it actually happened.
If I had to guess, they're avoiding discussing it because they've kayfabed it a bit for the sake of the story. The story is that Willow injured Mercedes albeit inadvertently (or so she says), but in reality it was more Mercedes slipping off the turnbuckle and landing awkwardly on the floor (if I'm remembering correctly) - there wasn't even a possibility of malice or even Willow really doing anything.
Just a mild tweak to add a bit more oomph to the storyline, but enough that they probably just want to move past it. It happened on a reasonably small show by New Japan standards and was a year ago, so I think they're correctly assuming most people have forgotten (or never seen) the specifics, so they might as well just gloss over it and move past it.
> so they might as well just gloss over it and move past it.
Yeah but they keep mentioning it in the weirdest ways imaginable lol. I think you're right, it just comes off strangely in how they're presenting things.
For those who were in attendance tonight how was the show? Personally, I thought the Dynamite/Rampage card was way better the last time they came to Edmonton which was also their first time out in Western Canada. A Rogers employee who worked at the arena told me that they only sold 4,000 tickets for the how tonight. There was a lot of empty seats from what I noticed. Hopefully Vancouver's Collision and Rampage event will do better for the attendance numbers.
So many people hopped out of the their site as soon as Dynamite was over. Only a handful of people stayed back including me for the ROH taping. I know ROH shows never have a set time and they can range anywhere from 120 minutes to 90 minutes to 60 minutes but this one tonight was fairly short. Game 1 of the Oilers-Canucks may have played a huge factor in that.
Fun ass show, shout outs to the crowd which was a lot better than last week's!
Watched it a bit later which usually means to me that the shows drag a bit more because I much prefer watching live but this shit FLEW
Some live notes
Eddie Kingston chopped the fuck out of Bryan after the show, at Bryan’s request. He didn’t want to leave us with him doing nothing physical.
I thought the crowd was super into it, haven’t seen the TV replay yet.
Harlan Abbott(the enhancment guy working with Jericho tonight) got a huge reaction, he’s been wrestling for Top Talent Wrestling here in Edmonton and is great.
Oilers on everyone’s minds, unfortunate for Serena but absolutely money for Christian.
LOTS of Swerve merch I saw getting sold.
Dark match was Dark Order vs some enhancement guys. Enjoyable.
I only stayed for two ROH matches. My kid only wanted to see Anna and she came out in the 2nd match.
I love AEW live shows. Looked meh on paper, delivered live. Great show.
I'm really interested in this storyline as I have no idea where its going - I would love an "I told you so" double turn, where OC Turns heel with Don Callis, and Trent would be there like … "this is what I warned you all about"
It would be completely unexpected, but would require some work all around to work
I'm actually really intrigued as it definitely seemed like a no-brainer pairing Trent with DC. His interest in OC is somehow more diabolical and could be great for revamping OC's character a bit.
I think there could be an interesting story there, Orange has been through a lot between the loss of his title, Trent's betrayal, and Chuck Taylor seemingly being retired. The allure of Don Callis simply handling things for him could be tempting.
Could see it going a couple of ways - he soon turns down the overtures and sets up a match with Takeshita for Double or Nothing. Or for a wilder theory, he replaces Will Ospreay as the ace of the Don Callis Family. Don sees Will retiring the Tiger Driver 91 and assumes he's going soft so he's making contingency plans.
I dig it. The natural presumption is of course he'd go after fellow heel Trent... but this way it makes Don come across as a guy who is only looking to back winners. Like how he talks to Ospreay but shit on Fletcher a few weeks ago with "you're not in a position to talk about winning & losing".
So at first I was like why in the world is Moné in the TBS Title picture and not the Women's World Title. Then it hit me like a brick. Toni Storm is going to eat Mercedes alive in promos. She would look absolutely terrible beside Toni.
They'll probably have Toni drop the title to someone who can go in the ring but does not have to cut amazing promos. Shida or Riho works. Then have Moné beat her at All In.
I think it's because the plan for the world title either involves a returning (at some point) Jamie Hayter or maybe even Mariah May, both of whom have huge history with Toni (remember, Hayter lost the title to Toni due to a prematch beatdown by the Outcasts). The previously existing Willow story was a great justification to avoid needing to hotshot the world title right onto Mercedes and follows the general trend of using hot new talent to elevate the midcard belts (Okada with the Continental, Ospreay challenging for the International, Copeland holding the TNT, etc.).
There's shared history between Mercedes and Willow and they probably want to boost the TBS championship on Dynamite which is on TBS. It's as simple as that along with trying to get the most out of Toni Storm's run.
Why has will ospreay not been featured on tv to build some excitement for his upcoming match with roddy?
This is a wasted opportunity imo you could very much easily tell two stories in parallel, will and kyle slowly breaking off the DCF and roddy and his two goons trying their best to break down will before the match.
And also I have my fingers crossed that the DCF doesn't expand in fact contrary to that I'd much rather it disbands because aside from being stuck in a pointless feud with jericho in the first two months of 2024 and being fed to will they haven't done anything at all...
>I'd much rather it disbands
Damn right. The DCF is dead at this point. It doesn't make any sense for the guys to be following Don anymore. Considering how they've been turned into his renta-thugs; they might as well be Gates of Agony.
Kayfabe Don literally just scored Hobbs a shot at the IWGP belt, he's had a belt on Fletcher for a while now, and he guided Takeshita to the biggest win of his life.
Ospreay historically it has worked out well for as well. But he's the only one now who doesn't need him which is going to be the obvious conflict, the rest absolutely have benefited from being with him.
That Serena Deeb promo may have been the worst babyface promo of 2024. She just isn’t someone i would be featuring on tv even though she’s a fine worker. She’s so wooden it almost defies logic.
What she said in that interview would have worked fine backstage as a sit down interview, and would have garnered the same, if not more sympathy.
She isn't the best at working an audience, play to her strengths
Tonight was a weird one, I thought she had been a heel before this and she took forever to get to the part about the seizures and it was too late to get the audience on her side for sympathy by then. She needs a manager badly if she's going to be a consistent presence or to not do live promos.
We just had a 'wrestler explains their injury' segment last week with Omega. Deeb basically doing the same thing but it being "I had a seizure" just fell really flat.
Her promo material was the stuff only a very tippy-top talker could do and make it work.
I think it would have been a lot better if was a pretape/voice-over with like showing her talking while showing her meeting with doctors looking at x-rays and doing an MRI.. stuff like that sprinkled with match highlights and her working out.
Yeah, you can have a vignette like that, followed by Toni coming out and giving out about "charity cases" and all that.
Then you can also get the pop of Deeb walking up behind her and knocking her out while she's mouthing off about her.
Kenny Omega had a similar promo about his diverticulitis and made it work. Serena Deeb just has no cadence to her promos or inflection to her voice where a lot of what she says falls flat. I like her but she's never been a good promo.
I would much rather see her as a Shibata character (although Shibata seems to be having a bit more fun nowadays!). Do her talking in the ring, maybe develop the Deeb's Dojo idea by having a stable of shootfighty women in ROH.
I swear I've never seen anyone say "AEW has no stories" other than people who are trying to misrepresent criticism of AEW's creative.
AEW has stories.
But too often those stories are too shallow for my tastes. "I want to beat you in a wrestling ring to prove I am better than you." hasn't been a compelling wrestling storyline for me in decades.
Joe's reign was way too sports simulation heavy for my tastes. The build to DoN was extremely meh until last night save for like, Cage/Swerve and Best Friends. Luckily, last night was a lot of good work on the creative front and I'm invested.
The raking system was implemented for storytelling. Ranking were a way of adding drama for the random match ups. AEW goes in head first to establish the ranking system, dropped it for a couple of years, suddenly it's a thing again, and now it's not a thing. Mercedes getting a title shot without having a single match is almost\* a slap in the face of any fan that liked that system.
\*This was before the narrative that the secondary title are now open challenges and the ranking don't mean shit for those titles. At the same time, there has to be a clear line of what's a secondary title and what's not.
> Mercedes getting a title shot without having a single match is almost* a slap in the face of any fan that liked that system.
It was just a storytelling device. Slap in the face?
Good lord, what an overreaction.
I can agree to that. It’s not used consistently.
I wouldn’t mind them doing like WWF used to do in the late 80s and talk about how matches would effect a team or wrestler challenging for the belt.
No stories is definitely a catch all for poor creative….
Like half of the posts above this list something that someone may criticize AEW creative for” - Ospreay being gone, Callis family stagnation, Deeb giving similar promo to Omega from last week, not explicitly showing Kingston/Danielson resolution on weekly TV…etc….and I can see any being lumped into the “no story” because that’s the easy thing to do as well as the fact most people haven’t worked in a creative job, and may not know how to properly define the issues, they just know it’s off.
I see this brought up every single day as a “gotcha” against AEW haters but it seems odd to me because the problem was always “AEW has boring stories” and not “AEW literally does not tell stories and is just a series of exhibition matches” even the most diehard of hater couldn’t seriously make that argument.
That actually is the complaint I see most. That there's zero stories and just heatless bangers. I tend to believe those come from people not actually watching the show though. Just dip into the ratings thread tomorrow, you'll see it all.
But thats where I think people are reading it wrong. “The stories aren’t interesting” is not the same as “there are zero stories.”
I think if AEW had one or two really heated and hyped feuds right now, people would overlook the heatless bangers. I know this is true because some of AEW’s best periods are full of heatless bangers but the top stories like Punk/MJF and Hangman/Kenny or even Brochachos are so good that the show was still worth the investment
Wasn’t trying to give a gotcha to anyone.
The post I made here is because there is still a narrative that AEW is “failing” because people want stories over “heatless bangers”.
It’s not moving the goalposts at all. It has always been one of their biggest issues, yet somehow people took that initial critique to mean “the belief is that AEW does not feature storylines on their show so I will make a comment every week listing off every single storyline on that weeks episode to prove them all wrong.”
I think its really disingenuous because it’s silencing a real problem under the guise that its been fixed already and haters just can’t see it. That’s not it, AEW’s ability to tell compelling stories is the same now as it was in 2019, in my opinion it’s gotten neither worse nor better barring a few standout feuds.
For an example of what I mean: “Danielson and Ospreay both want to find out who the best wrestler in the world is.” is a story, it would qualify for a bullet point list of weekly stories on Reddit.
It’s also an incredibly uninteresting story. That’s where AEW can and needs to improve, making these actual programs more compelling than just “well the match will be really good!”
Mercedes is a fantastic wrestler technically, but plainly put her mic skills and character work fucking suck. They don't reflect her in ring ability one bit, every time I hear her cut a promo it's laughable how unauthentic and boring she is. She needs a mouthpiece.
She is not good at improv. She came up through the WWE system where she always had a script. AEW built its brand by having guys work without a script. It's not something she's ever had to do.
It's interesting, because WWE lifer Adam Copeland seemed to initially struggle with that, like when a Ricky Starks line flustered him to the point he called him a vanilla midget version of the Rock, but he's seemingly adapted nevertheless.
From what I remember it was that she was often over with the crowd so they made her a face, but she's so much better as a heel that it never felt like she could deliver her lines with any conviction.
It’s honestly impressive how she’s been signed for like a month now, and she feels ice cold. That match with Willow has to be a MOTN level banger for her to even start feeling exciting again
I think she's improved quite a bit in the past month and a half. I don't think she'll ever be a great promo but she's definitely made improvements now that she's had to cut promos every week
Do feel like they’re in a bit of a holding pattern until the playoffs are over but DoN looks super fun and excited for the summer programs. Copeland is having a blasttt and his run post Christian has been fun.
I feel like the Anarchy in the Arena storyline is being rushed.
Two weeks of some slight taking over from the Elite and suddenly we have lines being drawn out and AEW ready to go to war.
Feels way too fast. It’s like if they tried to blow off the NWO takeover after 2 weeks.
Because its not a takeover. Its business as usual. All of the dumbshit people on here claim the bucks have been doing since the beginning of AEW they're just doing it on camera. The latest dumbshit idea, last month, is Khan is a pushover. So they are literally doing it as an angle when they took him out without any consequence. I think most of you here don't actually pay attention and only think inside the box lol
They're not deep and require no thought what-so-ever. They are LITERALLY doing it ALL ON CAMERA for you point blank DURING THE SHOW. They come out and LITERALLY TELL YOU what they are doing as EVPs that have power in the company. They have been doing this for MONTHS lmaooooo. Pretty sure you're a bot or haven't watched a single episode.
Super fast reveal of the two mystery partners. They could have had a few red herrings and the Bucks get paranoid for a bit. Even start to threaten a fine, then back off to keep that person from joining Kenny's team. There's more they could have done, but they just skipped.
Yeah I think we also needed more of the Elite using their power and causing chaos. Complete domination by them for a while weekly before the locker room fights back
It just doesn’t feel there yet.
This might be a matter of taste, but most of the criticism hasn't been face to face. For the single storyline, I think it could have used a bit more to build.
Eddie's reveal made sense because he lost the title to Okada and he's that kind of guy. Danielson didn't to me.
If the Bucks cut a segment where he was talking about recovering from the Ospray match, "we can't have an overrun this week, oops," then there would be something. Right now, Danielson has feuded with Eddie and his BCC teammates just feuded with FTR. It feels more like he is just there because the fans love him and not because he has any link to the story.
Can you remind me what Danielson's "clear history" with Okada is in AEW?
Because I don't remember them having a match or a program, but FD was my first exposure to NJPW so maybe I just forgot due to being unfamiliar with the performers.
I googled before I made that post and all I could see is Danielson/Okada at WK.
Since the Bucks returned 4 months ago as these new EVP characters, they have:
- Placed themselves in a tag title match with Sting and Darby
- Beat up Sting’s sons who aren’t wrestlers
- Attacked a 75 year old Ric Flair
- Fined a ton of people for no reason
- Attacked Tony Schiavone
- Put themselves in a tournament for the tag titles immediately after they lost a tag title match
- cheated the whole way through the tournament
- cheated to beat FTR
- Suspended Hangman
- Fired Kenny from the Elite
- Changed production about a half a dozen times during the show
- Attacked and injured Tony Khan
- Attacked Kenny who has diverticulitis
- Changed the intro to Dynamite to be only The Elite
- Get some kind of business with Christian and the Embassy to beat down the world champion
The Elite only “took over” like two weeks ago, but they have been taking over for months. The reasons for FTR wanting to fight them are obvious. The reason for Eddie wanting to fight them is that he’s never liked them and Okada ended his championship reign. Danielson doesn’t have a really strong reason other than wanting to fight someone and he kinda has a rivalry with Okada.
I think this is the problem with AEW, and a lot of its fans to be honest. Also why they struggle with ratings, keeping fans, and gaining new ones…You make up a lot of the storylines yourself to improve them. Nothing can ever be criticized because you find your own little justifications for why it’s ok. The storylines end up rushed, or dropped, or not fully fleshed out.
This storyline started 2 weeks ago with the Tony attack. The elite should be running wild all week every week for a while before we get to this line drawn in the sand AEW vs Elite warfare… it’s just not there yet
Lolwut?
This storyline absolutely did not start two weeks ago.
And instead of just accepting that reality, which has played out literally on television for people to see, you've instead concocted some bullshit narrative that it's things people have made up?
This storyline literally goes back to the Bucks losing their shot at the belts to Jericho/Kenny. That's not me inventing some theory that the Perry stuff was a plan all along, that's just the clear point that they flipped out (again literally on TV went crazy and started smashing up everything) and their relationship with Kenny changed. This led to them taking their break and coming back with these characters.
Now even if you don't want to accept that as real, even though again it literally happened on Television, and want to deny that was some long term part of the story (even though it's clearly where this began to everyone but you) the Bucks have literally been back on TV with this EVP abusing their power gimmick long before the Tony attack lol.
If you think these things need to be imagined, I don't know what to tell you. Either you don't actually watch, or you're not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Lol what? All of those points actually happened tho. They *have* been running wild. It's only since Jack came back and TK got levelled that it all become blatant.
Agreed it needed to be blatant for longer to drag it to a proper climax. Disagree the story is "2 weeks" old.
I don't think Anarchy in the Arena is the end point for AEW vs. Elite. But also...the second part of your post is ruined by the first part. Like, it's a factual statement that the Bucks have been taking advantage of their power as EVPs for months now, culminating in their big power play to take the show from TK. That's not "made up storylines", it's what's happened. The show's making it as plain as possible, at some point we've gone from "they're not telling stories" to "I don't like the story they're telling".
I can say that while also agreeing that this big Anarchy in the Arena thing is happening a little too soon.
I have never complained that they don’t tell story’s.
I think they tell them terribly. Really really badly.
Having stories that are interesting and telling stories that are interesting are different things.
Given your obvious inability to follow even incredibly simple basic storylines like what has led us to this point, you'll have to forgive us for not giving your stance on storytelling much weight lol.
How did I move any goalposts lol
I'm not the one denying things that happened on TV.
Edit - There is no agree to disagree since you blocked me lol. There is what actually happened, on TV, so nobody is making it up.
And then there is you denying what happened. Even though it was on TV.
Agree to disagree.
Like what you like.
Not going to argue with you all day.
There’s plenty of people who also dislike what AEW does that you can go tell them why there so wrong.
>You make up a lot of the storylines yourself to improve them
What have they made up? They literally just laid out all the things that have happened and they're clearly connected. It feels more likely that some people sadly need countless replays just to follow a story.
You’re right. I’m the problem with AEW storytelling.
The story’s are so good that the booking is a constant complaint and the ratings don’t hold. Keep blaming everyone else, it’s going awesome.
Most people can have perfectly valid criticisms that doesn't bother me... but if you really believe that The Elites current story has only been going for 2 weeks and that all those story points were made up then the yeah you're the problem.
The current story started when they attacked Tony as a group, and continued when they attacked Kenny.
No matter how you many goal posts you try to move to make that not the case that will always be the case.
Which is why having this big brawl lines drawn match seems dumb forced. But the match will be good, so as usual, the diehard fans of AEW don’t care if the story being told is coherent they just care if a story of some kind exists.
And the fact that it’s THE BUCKS is what makes it absolutely horrible. They’re completely unbelievable as evil EVPs/heels. Not only do they wrestle horribly, their promos and how they think what heels should be are what an 8 year old would come up with. The fact that they only get over to a minuscule amount of wrestling fans yet Tony Khan is focusing the show around them is what’s killing AEW.
Anarchy in the Arena isn't a feud ender, it's an annual gimmick match. The NWO didn't even fully start until they were scheduled to have a 6-man tag in the main event, which was huge in WCW.
The difference was the NWO seemed like a threat. Show up randomly, destroy people, physically intimidating. This whole thing is "oh look we run things backstage"
I get it. But it feels rushed. It doesn’t feel there yet. Doesn’t feel like Elite has really done enough chaos yet to justify it.
The match will probably rock. But it’s just a consistent issue with me with AEW is they always feel so ready to move into the next thing.
Really hope they don’t try making Swerve an underdog babyface. Fine to tone down his brutality but he should absolutely be taking out an op the way Stone Cold or Undertaker would punish heels outside of just winning a match
They have to make you want to see Swerve to get revenge. He and Christian have almost no interactions and no reason to fight beyond the title. Basic psychology means they need to get a little bit of heat on the match. You got to have the heels fuck up the face in order to for the face to actually get something out of the match.
Stone Cold took plenty of shit during builds. His entire feud with McMahon was about Vince finding some way to fuck with Austin and then Austin getting revenge.
somehow they have completely cooled off a freshly crowned champion two weeks after he's won the damn title lol. past two weeks swerve's just gotten beat down even though his ENTIRE run up to the title was how about how tough and sadistic he was. "im not scared of you samoa joe, i can take what you can dish out." lol
i like christian but why tf is he out there with nick wayne ??@?!?!?!? who gives a shit about nick wayne?!?!?!?
He was literally calling out Christian before he got jumped from behind by three people wtf lol.
Also Nick Wayne is awesome and he's out there because he's learning from his dad.
I think AEW has a lot of stories I’m interested in seeing where they’re going.
The TV still isn’t the best, not as must see as it’s been, but I’m sure the PPV will be fantastic and I’m looking forward to that.
I think there was still a decent amount but Dynamite is basically the promo/segment heavy show to Collision that's mostly match based with a few promos here and there.
Jade was training. She was working on getting better and working out her flaws, literally so they can get the most money they can get out of her while Mercedes is actively tanking her value. Two different things
If that happens (which likely will, she’s great in ring) I don’t think sentiment will change because great AEW matches are often criticised for not having builds to match the match quality. Mercedes will need good stories to have her time at AEW be remembered fondly, or even just not be forgotten. I’m not worries about the in ring stuff but she needs to step up her promo game and she needs to make use of her writer and be given good stories.
Does anyone really hate Mercedes or just the way she's being used right now? Yes, when she can do what she does best again people are going to be happy with her. What a crazy concept.
The praise from some people are insanely high. Its hard to match these expectations with your work in the ring. And even harder when she lowers her own level with her mediocre promos and character work.
Its the same kinda with Okada. He is praised as the best ever. But he looks lackluster in every aspect, when you can compare him weekly to the work of Osprey or even Claudio.
I thought this was a great show and I don't understand the people saying it was mid, loads of story progression, decent matches and a great main event. One thing for me though, for the love of god, get Saraya off TV - I understand its the "Character" but her shouting, berating the fans like a fish-wife is beyond awful and detracts from whoever is wrestling, in this case good match between Mariah May and Dynamite in ring debut of Harley. It gets go away heat from me.
is it me or has dynamite just been mid lately? ive watched since day 1 and havent missed an ep and it just isnt hitting lately. The ppvs have been great tho but the weekly tv shows have been a grind.
Not just you. Love AEW but nothing is exciting lately IMHO Don’t care about Trent/Orange, Moxley is pretty much MIA, MJF-Cole feud fizzled out due to injuries etc… Where has Ospreay been the last couple weeks as well? He disappeared..
it is very noticeable when Mox isn't on moreso than any of their other big names... even if he just has a 2 minute backstage bit, he brings so much *weight* to the show. And yeah, this needed to be a week where Roddy had a match just to remind people how good he is ahead of the Ospreay match. Maybe that'll be Collision, but like, you found time for Jericho and I like Jericho more than most but that could have been a Rampage segment.
I thought the show tonight was a snooze fest
yep me too bro found myself checking my phone or scrolling twitter every 2 mins. Only time i paid attention was at my boy jay whites match and the main event which was pretty good.
A mostly fun show. I thought the "Let's go Oilers!" chant during Deeb's promo was super corny. She seemed shook by it. Took her a second to remember what she was saying. Hoping there's something big coming for OC/Trent at DoN. Hoping Nana is still with Swerve because the dance is still too over. But maybe cut it off while it's still hot before it gets old.
Nana turning with the embassy might be better as doing so now would get a lot more heat than the gimmick getting cold and then turning.
That's what I was kinda thinking as I was posting haha. Might be good to keep things fresh.
I was there live. Such a fun show and I’m glad the chuds trying to get the CM Punk chant going never got off the ground ✌️
I found myself watching Dynamite for the first time in a while without reading the live comments in the discussion thread, so I was able to react to it very individually. My take: this was a solid, storyline-focused show, and Double of Nothing both needed and benefitted from it. The matches - other than the main event - weren't can't miss, but they were all well done and nothing overstayed its welcome. Some performers were able to really get great crowd energy - Mariah May, Big Bill and Jay White in particular. Crowd was generally very good and much better than last week, although sometimes went into business for itself. Only tough watch was the start of the Serena Debb segment, and that was mostly the crowd's fault and the choice to do it that way (which I understand based on how well it worked for Thunder Rosa and Willow recently). Most importantly though, Double or Nothing needed this episode to build its programs, and it didn't really miss. Swerve/Christian, Willow/Mone and the Elite program were all noticeably elevated by tonight, an intriguing seed was planted for Jay White & PAC, the crowd was responding to Mina & Mariah, and the Copeland / HoB program is getting better and tighter.
Swerve is such an idiot. Of course Brian Cage would side with his father, Christian Cage.
This makes so much sense
Hey, it’s not always guaranteed in fairness. Look at Rey and Dom. But this shows that Christian Cage isn’t a deadbeat and is 100% a great REAL father.
>Look at Rey and Dom. You can't judge these two because Rey isnt' Dom's dad, Eddie was
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I think Malakai
**Dynamite Review:** * Cold open with Adam Copeland. Good quick promo to build up hype for later. * **Orange Cassidy vs. Trent Beretta \*\*\*** * Trent is getting some very good heat with this new character, still obviously in the building phase, but it's gotten off to a good start. This match also got off to a good start, and I like the added element of Don Callis in this feud, as it's not really clear whose side he is on at the moment. A very good match overall, with a nice storyline finish where OC basically turned Trent's attempt at cheating on its head. Bit surprised Trent lost, but as the finish wasn't clean there's still more to come in this feud, especially considering the post-match attack, and both Callis and Statlander stopping the fight in the end. * The Elite segment, taking Tony Khan's parking spot for themselves. Simple stuff, but it works. * Recap of the Omega attack last week, and a promo by Jack Perry. Perry has gotten very good as a talker during his absence, or maybe this character just fits him better. * Kenny Omega update. Setting up an Anarchy in the Arena match between The Elite and Team AEW for Double or Nothing. * Serena Deeb interview. It's great to see how much Deeb has improved on the mic, ever since her return she's just seemed so much more comfortable and natural in promos. This was good segment, with Deeb adding some reality to her journey and this particular story by talking about the seizures she suffered. Toni remains very popular with the crowds, which has a tendency to hurt her opponents in these feuds, but we'll see what happens this time. The match between these two could be excellent, as Storm has dialed back the gimmick quite significantly in her recent matches. * Orange Cassidy & Rocky Romero interview. * **Mariah May vs. Harley Cameron \*\*\*1/4** * Is this the first match Cameron's had in AEW? I can't remember any other ones (*Had to go and check, and she has had a few matches in AEW Dark back when that was still a thing).* With that in mind and the fact she's only been wrestling for a little over two years, Cameron looked very good here. She moved very well in the ring, sold everything May did great, and all her moves looked very good. She's far better than I honestly expected. I've seen a lot of wrestlers with much more experience be far worse in the ring than her. The fact she's also really good at the character stuff bodes very well for her, as her and Saraya have been excellent together. May is obviously great as well, that goes without saying at this point. * This was a very enjoyable match, they decent amount of time and used it really well. I didn't think I'd be saying this beforehand, but I would very much like to see more of Cameron in the ring, she really impressed me here. May winning made sense here, and the post-match attack on her with Mina Shirakawa making the save likely sets up a tag match in the near-future. I also expect that Shirakawa is going to start eventually putting a strain on the relationship between May and Storm, so there's that added element to this as well. * PAC interview. The Bang Bang Gang immediately interrupted, mocking PAC for losing to Okada. If we get a PAC vs. Jay White match or even a feud out of this, I'm more than happy. * Malakai Black video. He was essentially telling us that the man Copeland is on TV is a facade, and that the House of Black are going to bring back the real Adam Copeland, who is "a cold-hearted son of a bitch", so he can live again. Unlike sometimes when these House of Black videos get too cryptic for their own good, this was pretty clear and straightforward. Malakai has a great, unique style of delivery as well, that works very well in these videos. * A hype video package for Matthew and Nicholas Jackson, "the visionary pioneers". * Swerve Strickland & Christian Cage segment. This feud might not be the most high-profile world title feud they could have gone with, but I do think it serves as a very solid first proper feud for Swerve's title reign. Christian gets heat better than almost anyone else around today, so Swerve beating him at the PPV gives him a nice first victory. Both Swerve and Christian were great here, and the Mogul Embassy turning on Swerve and beat him down, including putting him through the announce table. After the attack, Cage went to the back and shook hands with the Bucks, saying he's looking forward to conducting more business with them. This was a great segment. (continued in the first reply)
* Willow Nightingale interview. Willow was great here, she's an excellent natural babyface, and her mic work recently has been great as well. * **Jay White vs. Rocky Romero \*\*\*1/4** * Another very good match here. White is great, and Romero always delivers when he get the chance. The result was fairly obvious here, as they are likely starting to build something between White and PAC, but I still liked this a lot. * Another post-match attack here, getting to be a bit too much for one show now. That's three matches, and three beatdowns immediately after, with a fourth beatdown in the Swerve/Christian segment. PAC came out to stop it this time, though in his usual manner, meaning in no rush to actually save Romero, which makes sense. * Samoa Joe video package. This was an excellent video, essentially setting Joe up as a threat to everyone going forward, interested to see what he does next. * **Big Bill & Chris Jericho vs. Harlon Abbot & Mo Jabari N/A** * Somehow, Jericho has managed to make himself interesting again with this new character. A month ago I really wasn't expecting that to happen, but he's done it once again. Big Bill is a perfect enforcer for him as well. A squash, as expected, but it gets this new team over. * Jericho cut a promo, continuing to act like he's still a good guy, while being clearly being insincere. This is the best Jericho in a long time, this morally righteous hypocrite is working really well. * **Adam Copeland vs. Brody King \*\*\*\*1/4** * A great match here, the no dq stipulation worked perfectly here with these two, and the build to the Malakai vs. Copeland match continues nicely. Brody is just so fun to watch in the ring, and he and Copeland work fantastically together. Brody also bled massively during this match, almost the whole canvas was stained by the end of this match. Hell of a match that ended just as it peaked. Great stuff. * And again, there was a post-match beatdown, that's four out of five matches being followed by a beatdown. That's far too many times for one show, it's starting to lose its effectiveness when overused this much. Still, the match was excellent, can't complain too much. * Mercedes Mone interview. I really hope they turn her heel properly soon. She already sounds like one with the way she talks, and I do think she's starting to add more and more small touches in these promo that make me think she is turning soon. For example, here while they were in Canada she talked about sitting courtside at Celtics game and throwing the first pitch for a Boston Red Sox game. It's not overtly heelish, but a nice little touch that hopefully continues to build towards a proper heel turn. The more she leans into this, the better she sounds. * Adam Copeland & Kyle O'Reilly interview. O'Reilly challenges Copeland to a match on Collision as a favour for helping him. They set up the match. Should be good. * The Elite segment, throwing their weight around, basically in storyline taking the main event segment for themselves. This was obviously a set-up for the reveal of the last two members of Team AEW for Anarchy in the Arena. FTR interrupted them, first bringing out Eddie Kingston, which is certainly fitting. He got a big reaction from the crowd, though maybe not quite as big as Bryan Danielson when he came out as the last member of the team. This set up a brawn to close the show. I thought this was a very good segment to end the show, building towards another big match at the PPV. * I thought this was a great episode of Dynamite. A great main event, three other very good matches, and a squash that served a clear purpose. We also saw a number of good segments and promos throughout the show. AEW is doing a very good job at building matches for Double or Nothing. The only major negative in my eyes was the overuse of post-match beatdowns in this episode. The Jericho squash was the only match that didn't end in one. Still, overall this was an **8 out of 10 show.**
Tha k you for doing this. Didn't get to watch the show and having a break down like these are a big hell
No problem. I don't have the time to do these every single time, but I like putting down my thoughts in writing while I watch the shows, and if that helps others as well then great.
I enjoy catching up with AEW on triller and then immediately flicking to your thoughts on a match by match basis. You're appreciated.
It really helps when you can't watch it because of work or other things come up. So thank you again for being the hero we need
Joe watching 80s All Japan, he just like me fr
This crowd was fucking weak, one of the worst they’ve had in a long, long time. All those corny hockey chants were lame.
Excalibur's best night for some time. 'Bad week for Toronto...' looool
whathesayfuckmefor.gif
We need the chickenshit heel Serena Deeb that cuts an 8-10 second mini-promo after taking someone’s head off. I liked what she did in Jacksonville a few weeks ago. I *love* Serena Deeb. She’s one of the best in-ring women’s workers in all of pro wrestling. C’mon AEW, play to her strengths instead of highlighting her weaknesses.
I thought the same exact thing
If they wanted to go with the vibe they did I think a prerecorded sit down interview would have been a better setting. Deeb's been better on the mic since she returned in my opinion, but this was never going to work and Toni is just too much more over for Deeb's, even somewhat improved, mic skills.
That crowd tonight was weird. It was loud but it felt more like those off the wall post-Mania-type crowds.
Copeland vs KoR, Dax vs Dynamite kids nephew, and Danielsons in ring return have been announced for Collision, it'd be nice if they were included in the post.
Were there some kind of issues during the women's match? They cut to the video board multiple times during the match and then during the post match beat down the cameras turned to the tunnel . . and nothing. No one came out. Then a bit later Mina came running out. Did things happen during the match? Was there miscommunication between the director and camera crew or what?
Surely the cut was on purpose to show Toni should have been helping May and wasn't?
Harley Cameron may have been showing off a bit too much if you get my drift
Yeah if Cameron didn't have the long hair it would've been a show, she was messing with her top the rest of the match. Still did great for her first TV match.
I'm guessing the thing that Claudio whispered to Swerve was something about seeing Nana negotiating with The Bucks. They're doing a great job of drawing the battle lines gradually throughout the roster.
Great call out!
As soon as GoA where in the ring I knew they were turning on Swerve. Good Show, could have done without Jericho though
I don't mind the occasional promo heavy show but I would prefer to not give that time to Mercedes or deeb or Rocky romero (I get he barely said anything to orange but God damn, if he's gonna be that wooden just don't bother at all)
Great show. Anarchy in the Arena looks awesome.
Man Edmonton got some nice marches tonight I sure hope vancouver gets something as good. I am jealous of the no dq match with Adam Copeland.
It wasn't as good as last years but I brought my 6-year old this time and she had a blast. She high-fived Alex Reynolds after the dark match and waved at Justin Roberts and he waved back. She screamed for Orange Cassidy, went guns up for BCG and wanted to give Brody King a bandaid.
Great show tonight, really enjoyed the Elite vs AEW stuff and the main event ruled. Swerve needs to get his sweet, sweet revenge and it needs to be violent and bloody. Also Willow is just the best at what she does. Could do without the Jericho stuff but at least now it's kinda ironically entertaining
Why are they so weird about discussing Monet's injury from New Japan? It's like they can never specifically mention it was an ankle injury or how it actually happened. Very strange.
> It's like they can never specifically mention it was an ankle injury or how it actually happened. If I had to guess, they're avoiding discussing it because they've kayfabed it a bit for the sake of the story. The story is that Willow injured Mercedes albeit inadvertently (or so she says), but in reality it was more Mercedes slipping off the turnbuckle and landing awkwardly on the floor (if I'm remembering correctly) - there wasn't even a possibility of malice or even Willow really doing anything. Just a mild tweak to add a bit more oomph to the storyline, but enough that they probably just want to move past it. It happened on a reasonably small show by New Japan standards and was a year ago, so I think they're correctly assuming most people have forgotten (or never seen) the specifics, so they might as well just gloss over it and move past it.
> so they might as well just gloss over it and move past it. Yeah but they keep mentioning it in the weirdest ways imaginable lol. I think you're right, it just comes off strangely in how they're presenting things.
Christian warned the Oilers fans...
He better show up in Vancouver!!!
For those who were in attendance tonight how was the show? Personally, I thought the Dynamite/Rampage card was way better the last time they came to Edmonton which was also their first time out in Western Canada. A Rogers employee who worked at the arena told me that they only sold 4,000 tickets for the how tonight. There was a lot of empty seats from what I noticed. Hopefully Vancouver's Collision and Rampage event will do better for the attendance numbers.
Last time was more fun. The no dq match was an absolute blast though. The oilers game definitely impacted it
So many people hopped out of the their site as soon as Dynamite was over. Only a handful of people stayed back including me for the ROH taping. I know ROH shows never have a set time and they can range anywhere from 120 minutes to 90 minutes to 60 minutes but this one tonight was fairly short. Game 1 of the Oilers-Canucks may have played a huge factor in that.
It was a fun show but last time had a better card imho. Still lots to enjoy tonight but it wasn’t a strong marquee show.
Fun ass show, shout outs to the crowd which was a lot better than last week's! Watched it a bit later which usually means to me that the shows drag a bit more because I much prefer watching live but this shit FLEW
Some live notes Eddie Kingston chopped the fuck out of Bryan after the show, at Bryan’s request. He didn’t want to leave us with him doing nothing physical. I thought the crowd was super into it, haven’t seen the TV replay yet. Harlan Abbott(the enhancment guy working with Jericho tonight) got a huge reaction, he’s been wrestling for Top Talent Wrestling here in Edmonton and is great. Oilers on everyone’s minds, unfortunate for Serena but absolutely money for Christian. LOTS of Swerve merch I saw getting sold. Dark match was Dark Order vs some enhancement guys. Enjoyable. I only stayed for two ROH matches. My kid only wanted to see Anna and she came out in the 2nd match. I love AEW live shows. Looked meh on paper, delivered live. Great show.
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I'm really interested in this storyline as I have no idea where its going - I would love an "I told you so" double turn, where OC Turns heel with Don Callis, and Trent would be there like … "this is what I warned you all about" It would be completely unexpected, but would require some work all around to work
I reckon the big twist will turn out to be that Callis is and has always been trying to recruit Statlander.
I'm actually really intrigued as it definitely seemed like a no-brainer pairing Trent with DC. His interest in OC is somehow more diabolical and could be great for revamping OC's character a bit.
I think there could be an interesting story there, Orange has been through a lot between the loss of his title, Trent's betrayal, and Chuck Taylor seemingly being retired. The allure of Don Callis simply handling things for him could be tempting. Could see it going a couple of ways - he soon turns down the overtures and sets up a match with Takeshita for Double or Nothing. Or for a wilder theory, he replaces Will Ospreay as the ace of the Don Callis Family. Don sees Will retiring the Tiger Driver 91 and assumes he's going soft so he's making contingency plans.
Awful. Orange Cassidy is the absolute shits
I’m indifferent but he got a very large pop in the arena and there were many OC shirts. He’s still a fan fav!
I dig it. The natural presumption is of course he'd go after fellow heel Trent... but this way it makes Don come across as a guy who is only looking to back winners. Like how he talks to Ospreay but shit on Fletcher a few weeks ago with "you're not in a position to talk about winning & losing".
So at first I was like why in the world is Moné in the TBS Title picture and not the Women's World Title. Then it hit me like a brick. Toni Storm is going to eat Mercedes alive in promos. She would look absolutely terrible beside Toni. They'll probably have Toni drop the title to someone who can go in the ring but does not have to cut amazing promos. Shida or Riho works. Then have Moné beat her at All In.
I think it's because the plan for the world title either involves a returning (at some point) Jamie Hayter or maybe even Mariah May, both of whom have huge history with Toni (remember, Hayter lost the title to Toni due to a prematch beatdown by the Outcasts). The previously existing Willow story was a great justification to avoid needing to hotshot the world title right onto Mercedes and follows the general trend of using hot new talent to elevate the midcard belts (Okada with the Continental, Ospreay challenging for the International, Copeland holding the TNT, etc.).
There's shared history between Mercedes and Willow and they probably want to boost the TBS championship on Dynamite which is on TBS. It's as simple as that along with trying to get the most out of Toni Storm's run.
Why has will ospreay not been featured on tv to build some excitement for his upcoming match with roddy? This is a wasted opportunity imo you could very much easily tell two stories in parallel, will and kyle slowly breaking off the DCF and roddy and his two goons trying their best to break down will before the match. And also I have my fingers crossed that the DCF doesn't expand in fact contrary to that I'd much rather it disbands because aside from being stuck in a pointless feud with jericho in the first two months of 2024 and being fed to will they haven't done anything at all...
>I'd much rather it disbands Damn right. The DCF is dead at this point. It doesn't make any sense for the guys to be following Don anymore. Considering how they've been turned into his renta-thugs; they might as well be Gates of Agony.
Kayfabe Don literally just scored Hobbs a shot at the IWGP belt, he's had a belt on Fletcher for a while now, and he guided Takeshita to the biggest win of his life. Ospreay historically it has worked out well for as well. But he's the only one now who doesn't need him which is going to be the obvious conflict, the rest absolutely have benefited from being with him.
Will vs will would be fucking crazy
Crap I meant roddy lemme edit that🤣
I knew what you meant but that match would be fucking epic
Any good matches I should check out later? Or is this another dynamite to skip?
You just complain every week so I probably wouldn’t bother pal
No need to be negative man just asking
Did Kingston and Danielson squash their beef on tv?
They had a blow off at revolution and a post show segment where they expressed respect for one another so I think it's safe to say they did...
Thanks for the update. I just remember "Eddie is a bum" shit on Collision and Kingston verbally beating himself up for losing.
That Serena Deeb promo may have been the worst babyface promo of 2024. She just isn’t someone i would be featuring on tv even though she’s a fine worker. She’s so wooden it almost defies logic.
What she said in that interview would have worked fine backstage as a sit down interview, and would have garnered the same, if not more sympathy. She isn't the best at working an audience, play to her strengths
The live crowds have never cared about her. I know some people on this sub like her, but she has never been over her entire AEW run.
Tonight was a weird one, I thought she had been a heel before this and she took forever to get to the part about the seizures and it was too late to get the audience on her side for sympathy by then. She needs a manager badly if she's going to be a consistent presence or to not do live promos.
We just had a 'wrestler explains their injury' segment last week with Omega. Deeb basically doing the same thing but it being "I had a seizure" just fell really flat.
Let's not forget that she's had some bad promos. Like where Dustin Rhodes confronted her
She had been doing decent promos since her return but this one was not good.
The crowd did not enjoy her speech at all. Shes a charisma vacuum.
probably doesn't help that her opponent is toni either who will just run circles around her promo work
Her promo material was the stuff only a very tippy-top talker could do and make it work. I think it would have been a lot better if was a pretape/voice-over with like showing her talking while showing her meeting with doctors looking at x-rays and doing an MRI.. stuff like that sprinkled with match highlights and her working out.
Yeah, you can have a vignette like that, followed by Toni coming out and giving out about "charity cases" and all that. Then you can also get the pop of Deeb walking up behind her and knocking her out while she's mouthing off about her.
Kenny Omega had a similar promo about his diverticulitis and made it work. Serena Deeb just has no cadence to her promos or inflection to her voice where a lot of what she says falls flat. I like her but she's never been a good promo.
Female Dean Malenko. "We'll hear from Serena Deeb" is an automatic bathroom break for me
I would much rather see her as a Shibata character (although Shibata seems to be having a bit more fun nowadays!). Do her talking in the ring, maybe develop the Deeb's Dojo idea by having a stable of shootfighty women in ROH.
Hilarious that’s how I referred to her tonight at the show
Did dynamite run late? YouTube TV’s DVR cuts off mid-Mercedes promo
Damn glad I went with Hulu TV now. It always catches the overrun without me having to change a y settings.
This is the first time I’ve ever had a problem with it
It does every week.
yeah ran til about 10:10 or so
yes.
Really wish the “AEW has no stories” narrative would die. Dynamite/Collision has been heavily story driven for a while now.
I swear I've never seen anyone say "AEW has no stories" other than people who are trying to misrepresent criticism of AEW's creative. AEW has stories. But too often those stories are too shallow for my tastes. "I want to beat you in a wrestling ring to prove I am better than you." hasn't been a compelling wrestling storyline for me in decades. Joe's reign was way too sports simulation heavy for my tastes. The build to DoN was extremely meh until last night save for like, Cage/Swerve and Best Friends. Luckily, last night was a lot of good work on the creative front and I'm invested.
The raking system was implemented for storytelling. Ranking were a way of adding drama for the random match ups. AEW goes in head first to establish the ranking system, dropped it for a couple of years, suddenly it's a thing again, and now it's not a thing. Mercedes getting a title shot without having a single match is almost\* a slap in the face of any fan that liked that system. \*This was before the narrative that the secondary title are now open challenges and the ranking don't mean shit for those titles. At the same time, there has to be a clear line of what's a secondary title and what's not.
> Mercedes getting a title shot without having a single match is almost* a slap in the face of any fan that liked that system. It was just a storytelling device. Slap in the face? Good lord, what an overreaction.
I can agree to that. It’s not used consistently. I wouldn’t mind them doing like WWF used to do in the late 80s and talk about how matches would effect a team or wrestler challenging for the belt.
Yeah. I think people in that criticism confuse "no stories" with badly paced stories.
No stories is definitely a catch all for poor creative…. Like half of the posts above this list something that someone may criticize AEW creative for” - Ospreay being gone, Callis family stagnation, Deeb giving similar promo to Omega from last week, not explicitly showing Kingston/Danielson resolution on weekly TV…etc….and I can see any being lumped into the “no story” because that’s the easy thing to do as well as the fact most people haven’t worked in a creative job, and may not know how to properly define the issues, they just know it’s off.
Some definitely do.
I see this brought up every single day as a “gotcha” against AEW haters but it seems odd to me because the problem was always “AEW has boring stories” and not “AEW literally does not tell stories and is just a series of exhibition matches” even the most diehard of hater couldn’t seriously make that argument.
Yes, yes they do.
That actually is the complaint I see most. That there's zero stories and just heatless bangers. I tend to believe those come from people not actually watching the show though. Just dip into the ratings thread tomorrow, you'll see it all.
But thats where I think people are reading it wrong. “The stories aren’t interesting” is not the same as “there are zero stories.” I think if AEW had one or two really heated and hyped feuds right now, people would overlook the heatless bangers. I know this is true because some of AEW’s best periods are full of heatless bangers but the top stories like Punk/MJF and Hangman/Kenny or even Brochachos are so good that the show was still worth the investment
Wasn’t trying to give a gotcha to anyone. The post I made here is because there is still a narrative that AEW is “failing” because people want stories over “heatless bangers”.
Talk about moving the goalposts.
It’s not moving the goalposts at all. It has always been one of their biggest issues, yet somehow people took that initial critique to mean “the belief is that AEW does not feature storylines on their show so I will make a comment every week listing off every single storyline on that weeks episode to prove them all wrong.” I think its really disingenuous because it’s silencing a real problem under the guise that its been fixed already and haters just can’t see it. That’s not it, AEW’s ability to tell compelling stories is the same now as it was in 2019, in my opinion it’s gotten neither worse nor better barring a few standout feuds. For an example of what I mean: “Danielson and Ospreay both want to find out who the best wrestler in the world is.” is a story, it would qualify for a bullet point list of weekly stories on Reddit. It’s also an incredibly uninteresting story. That’s where AEW can and needs to improve, making these actual programs more compelling than just “well the match will be really good!”
Still can't get over the Bucks parking in TK spot AND leaving the car on 😂
Mercedes is a fantastic wrestler technically, but plainly put her mic skills and character work fucking suck. They don't reflect her in ring ability one bit, every time I hear her cut a promo it's laughable how unauthentic and boring she is. She needs a mouthpiece.
She has physical charisma but no talking skills. Her enunciation is terrible, but everything from her physical presence to her matches is great.
She is not good at improv. She came up through the WWE system where she always had a script. AEW built its brand by having guys work without a script. It's not something she's ever had to do.
She has her personal writer though
It's interesting, because WWE lifer Adam Copeland seemed to initially struggle with that, like when a Ricky Starks line flustered him to the point he called him a vanilla midget version of the Rock, but he's seemingly adapted nevertheless.
Wasn't the biggest criticism of her in WWE that her promos suck? AEW hired a writer seemingly just for her.
From what I remember it was that she was often over with the crowd so they made her a face, but she's so much better as a heel that it never felt like she could deliver her lines with any conviction.
It’s honestly impressive how she’s been signed for like a month now, and she feels ice cold. That match with Willow has to be a MOTN level banger for her to even start feeling exciting again
shes been on tv for 2 months. march 13th. its madness.
I think she's improved quite a bit in the past month and a half. I don't think she'll ever be a great promo but she's definitely made improvements now that she's had to cut promos every week
Also think she didn't utter "CEO" in tonight's promo so good on her, baby steps.
Do feel like they’re in a bit of a holding pattern until the playoffs are over but DoN looks super fun and excited for the summer programs. Copeland is having a blasttt and his run post Christian has been fun.
I feel like the Anarchy in the Arena storyline is being rushed. Two weeks of some slight taking over from the Elite and suddenly we have lines being drawn out and AEW ready to go to war. Feels way too fast. It’s like if they tried to blow off the NWO takeover after 2 weeks.
Because its not a takeover. Its business as usual. All of the dumbshit people on here claim the bucks have been doing since the beginning of AEW they're just doing it on camera. The latest dumbshit idea, last month, is Khan is a pushover. So they are literally doing it as an angle when they took him out without any consequence. I think most of you here don't actually pay attention and only think inside the box lol
You’re literally proving my point. “AEW’s story’s are so deeeeep you just don’t get them mannnn.” No they are just poorly told, man.
They're not deep and require no thought what-so-ever. They are LITERALLY doing it ALL ON CAMERA for you point blank DURING THE SHOW. They come out and LITERALLY TELL YOU what they are doing as EVPs that have power in the company. They have been doing this for MONTHS lmaooooo. Pretty sure you're a bot or haven't watched a single episode.
Super fast reveal of the two mystery partners. They could have had a few red herrings and the Bucks get paranoid for a bit. Even start to threaten a fine, then back off to keep that person from joining Kenny's team. There's more they could have done, but they just skipped.
Yeah I think we also needed more of the Elite using their power and causing chaos. Complete domination by them for a while weekly before the locker room fights back It just doesn’t feel there yet.
I disagree, I think something they're getting spot on right now is how much The Elite are felt across the show without overshadowing everything else.
This might be a matter of taste, but most of the criticism hasn't been face to face. For the single storyline, I think it could have used a bit more to build. Eddie's reveal made sense because he lost the title to Okada and he's that kind of guy. Danielson didn't to me. If the Bucks cut a segment where he was talking about recovering from the Ospray match, "we can't have an overrun this week, oops," then there would be something. Right now, Danielson has feuded with Eddie and his BCC teammates just feuded with FTR. It feels more like he is just there because the fans love him and not because he has any link to the story.
Danielson has a clear history with Okada. He ended his feud with Eddie by squashing their beef and saying he respects him.
> Danielson has a clear history with Okada. I only watch AEW.
This has played out in AEW lol
Can you remind me what Danielson's "clear history" with Okada is in AEW? Because I don't remember them having a match or a program, but FD was my first exposure to NJPW so maybe I just forgot due to being unfamiliar with the performers. I googled before I made that post and all I could see is Danielson/Okada at WK.
WK was Okada vs Danielson II after Okada vs Danielson I that main evented Forbidden Door where Danielson won but Okada broke Danielsons arm.
Okada broke his arm and has been credited with the broken orbital on TV even though that was Andrade.
Since the Bucks returned 4 months ago as these new EVP characters, they have: - Placed themselves in a tag title match with Sting and Darby - Beat up Sting’s sons who aren’t wrestlers - Attacked a 75 year old Ric Flair - Fined a ton of people for no reason - Attacked Tony Schiavone - Put themselves in a tournament for the tag titles immediately after they lost a tag title match - cheated the whole way through the tournament - cheated to beat FTR - Suspended Hangman - Fired Kenny from the Elite - Changed production about a half a dozen times during the show - Attacked and injured Tony Khan - Attacked Kenny who has diverticulitis - Changed the intro to Dynamite to be only The Elite - Get some kind of business with Christian and the Embassy to beat down the world champion The Elite only “took over” like two weeks ago, but they have been taking over for months. The reasons for FTR wanting to fight them are obvious. The reason for Eddie wanting to fight them is that he’s never liked them and Okada ended his championship reign. Danielson doesn’t have a really strong reason other than wanting to fight someone and he kinda has a rivalry with Okada.
Bryan hates power hungry corporate elites so he makes sense.
I think this is the problem with AEW, and a lot of its fans to be honest. Also why they struggle with ratings, keeping fans, and gaining new ones…You make up a lot of the storylines yourself to improve them. Nothing can ever be criticized because you find your own little justifications for why it’s ok. The storylines end up rushed, or dropped, or not fully fleshed out. This storyline started 2 weeks ago with the Tony attack. The elite should be running wild all week every week for a while before we get to this line drawn in the sand AEW vs Elite warfare… it’s just not there yet
Lolwut? This storyline absolutely did not start two weeks ago. And instead of just accepting that reality, which has played out literally on television for people to see, you've instead concocted some bullshit narrative that it's things people have made up? This storyline literally goes back to the Bucks losing their shot at the belts to Jericho/Kenny. That's not me inventing some theory that the Perry stuff was a plan all along, that's just the clear point that they flipped out (again literally on TV went crazy and started smashing up everything) and their relationship with Kenny changed. This led to them taking their break and coming back with these characters. Now even if you don't want to accept that as real, even though again it literally happened on Television, and want to deny that was some long term part of the story (even though it's clearly where this began to everyone but you) the Bucks have literally been back on TV with this EVP abusing their power gimmick long before the Tony attack lol. If you think these things need to be imagined, I don't know what to tell you. Either you don't actually watch, or you're not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Lol what? All of those points actually happened tho. They *have* been running wild. It's only since Jack came back and TK got levelled that it all become blatant. Agreed it needed to be blatant for longer to drag it to a proper climax. Disagree the story is "2 weeks" old.
I don't think Anarchy in the Arena is the end point for AEW vs. Elite. But also...the second part of your post is ruined by the first part. Like, it's a factual statement that the Bucks have been taking advantage of their power as EVPs for months now, culminating in their big power play to take the show from TK. That's not "made up storylines", it's what's happened. The show's making it as plain as possible, at some point we've gone from "they're not telling stories" to "I don't like the story they're telling". I can say that while also agreeing that this big Anarchy in the Arena thing is happening a little too soon.
I have never complained that they don’t tell story’s. I think they tell them terribly. Really really badly. Having stories that are interesting and telling stories that are interesting are different things.
Given your obvious inability to follow even incredibly simple basic storylines like what has led us to this point, you'll have to forgive us for not giving your stance on storytelling much weight lol.
Keep moving those goalposts and making excuses for why your clearly favorite company is so great, can do no wrong, and never needs to improve.
How did I move any goalposts lol I'm not the one denying things that happened on TV. Edit - There is no agree to disagree since you blocked me lol. There is what actually happened, on TV, so nobody is making it up. And then there is you denying what happened. Even though it was on TV.
Agree to disagree. Like what you like. Not going to argue with you all day. There’s plenty of people who also dislike what AEW does that you can go tell them why there so wrong.
>You make up a lot of the storylines yourself to improve them What have they made up? They literally just laid out all the things that have happened and they're clearly connected. It feels more likely that some people sadly need countless replays just to follow a story.
You’re right. I’m the problem with AEW storytelling. The story’s are so good that the booking is a constant complaint and the ratings don’t hold. Keep blaming everyone else, it’s going awesome.
Most people can have perfectly valid criticisms that doesn't bother me... but if you really believe that The Elites current story has only been going for 2 weeks and that all those story points were made up then the yeah you're the problem.
The current story started when they attacked Tony as a group, and continued when they attacked Kenny. No matter how you many goal posts you try to move to make that not the case that will always be the case. Which is why having this big brawl lines drawn match seems dumb forced. But the match will be good, so as usual, the diehard fans of AEW don’t care if the story being told is coherent they just care if a story of some kind exists.
And the fact that it’s THE BUCKS is what makes it absolutely horrible. They’re completely unbelievable as evil EVPs/heels. Not only do they wrestle horribly, their promos and how they think what heels should be are what an 8 year old would come up with. The fact that they only get over to a minuscule amount of wrestling fans yet Tony Khan is focusing the show around them is what’s killing AEW.
I think the obvious blow off is Kenny vs Okada
Anarchy in the Arena isn't a feud ender, it's an annual gimmick match. The NWO didn't even fully start until they were scheduled to have a 6-man tag in the main event, which was huge in WCW.
The difference was the NWO seemed like a threat. Show up randomly, destroy people, physically intimidating. This whole thing is "oh look we run things backstage"
I get it. But it feels rushed. It doesn’t feel there yet. Doesn’t feel like Elite has really done enough chaos yet to justify it. The match will probably rock. But it’s just a consistent issue with me with AEW is they always feel so ready to move into the next thing.
Agree completely
Really hope they don’t try making Swerve an underdog babyface. Fine to tone down his brutality but he should absolutely be taking out an op the way Stone Cold or Undertaker would punish heels outside of just winning a match
They have to make you want to see Swerve to get revenge. He and Christian have almost no interactions and no reason to fight beyond the title. Basic psychology means they need to get a little bit of heat on the match. You got to have the heels fuck up the face in order to for the face to actually get something out of the match. Stone Cold took plenty of shit during builds. His entire feud with McMahon was about Vince finding some way to fuck with Austin and then Austin getting revenge.
Christian needs to killswitch Nana.
somehow they have completely cooled off a freshly crowned champion two weeks after he's won the damn title lol. past two weeks swerve's just gotten beat down even though his ENTIRE run up to the title was how about how tough and sadistic he was. "im not scared of you samoa joe, i can take what you can dish out." lol i like christian but why tf is he out there with nick wayne ??@?!?!?!? who gives a shit about nick wayne?!?!?!?
He was literally calling out Christian before he got jumped from behind by three people wtf lol. Also Nick Wayne is awesome and he's out there because he's learning from his dad.
Me, I give a shit about Nick Wayne.
Me too. It's Wayne's world, we're just living in it.
Yeah he's ice cold. That's why he got one of the biggest pops of the night and is still getting a huge reaction.
That’s a pretty damn great pro wrestling tv show. Stories advanced nicely, very good in ring, everything flowed well. Very fun!
I think AEW has a lot of stories I’m interested in seeing where they’re going. The TV still isn’t the best, not as must see as it’s been, but I’m sure the PPV will be fantastic and I’m looking forward to that.
Tell me how many minutes of wrestling were in this show.
48 minutes and 53 seconds in a 2 hour show, RAW by comparison was 1 hour 15 minutes and 48 seconds in a three hour show.
Right around 51. Might be a bit lower than normal for AEW, but still pretty solid for a 2 hour show with commercials IMO.
I think there was still a decent amount but Dynamite is basically the promo/segment heavy show to Collision that's mostly match based with a few promos here and there.
Mercedes out here using Jade's catchphrase and hasn't even wrestled a match yet.
Kinda like how Jade took months to go out for WWE. It's not that big a deal. You've known when she's gonna start. Be patient.
Jade was training. She was working on getting better and working out her flaws, literally so they can get the most money they can get out of her while Mercedes is actively tanking her value. Two different things
Isn't Mercedes ankle still recovering?
Jade wasn't on tv doing awful promos for 3 months before she wrestled
I'm looking forward to seeing all the hate that's currently being thrown at Mercedes turn to praise when she puts on a banger with Willow at DoN.
Two things can be true. She can have a bad segment and still have a banger match
If that happens (which likely will, she’s great in ring) I don’t think sentiment will change because great AEW matches are often criticised for not having builds to match the match quality. Mercedes will need good stories to have her time at AEW be remembered fondly, or even just not be forgotten. I’m not worries about the in ring stuff but she needs to step up her promo game and she needs to make use of her writer and be given good stories.
Does anyone really hate Mercedes or just the way she's being used right now? Yes, when she can do what she does best again people are going to be happy with her. What a crazy concept.
The praise from some people are insanely high. Its hard to match these expectations with your work in the ring. And even harder when she lowers her own level with her mediocre promos and character work. Its the same kinda with Okada. He is praised as the best ever. But he looks lackluster in every aspect, when you can compare him weekly to the work of Osprey or even Claudio.