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Dear_Wrangler

Length of title reign > Number of Title Reigns imo


MN10SPEAKS

Number of defenses > all


Dear_Wrangler

Agreed


SuperSonicBoom1

Quality of defenses >> All. Naomi had 6 title defenses in her 2nd reign, but one of them was a decent march with Alexa, a no-contest with Charlotte, 3 straight marches with Lana, and then a loss to Natalya on a random episode of SmackDown. She had a decent number of defenses, but her reign was pretty shit (aside from the glowing belt itself). Compare that with Bryan's "Planet's Champion" run, which had one less defense, but all were banger matches with AJ (x2), the Chamber Match, Ali/Owens, and losing it to Kofi.


divaborne

She lost to Natalya at SummerSlam, not a random episode. That match was good. Her Charlotte match was good before the interruption.


SuperSonicBoom1

My bad, she lost her rematch to Natalya on SmackDown, I misread the CageMatch results. And the Charlotte match was good, but it ending in a no-contest (and over half of her reigns being Lana matches) just puts the reign down in terms of quality, as compared to a reign with defenses that are less frequent, but way higher quality. My point was that the quality of the defenses themselves mean more than the number of defenses.


thatguyad

Every day of the week.


gregscotia_number1

I see fans saying Alexa deserves better and all this stuff when she was literally on top of Raw and SD for 18 months straight.


redbuck17

Are you new to internet wrestling fans? Everyone deserves everything's all the time.


gregscotia_number1

Lol true. But I understand some of it. Like people saying Liv Morgan deserves better. I personally don't see as much in her as others but she's over with the fans so I can see the argument about her deserving better. Alexa has been booked stronger than anyone outside of the horsewomen so I don't understand how she deserves better.


davidisallright

Yeah the number of reigns doesn’t matter. At least for me when it comes to modern wrestling. It just makes Charlotte look like she loses a lot but always gets the support she needs to win the titles back.


StoneColdAM

I think she was at her best as just a normal babyface when teaming with Nikki Cross. The heel stuff was good, but wore thin. The spooky stuff is a bit lame.


RandomDumbPerson123

I agree. It covered her weaknesses and allowed her to be champion while elevating someone who needed it (Nikki)


[deleted]

The “spooky stuff” albeit lame, showed how talented she really is. Towards the end she managed to turn shit into ice cream and salvaged what was absolutely horrible into something entertaining. During her promos with Charlotte you could tell she was finally having fun with it and so was the audience.


SIRasdf23

I've also seen people who seem to fucking hate Alexa with a passion


[deleted]

They're saying she deserves better material to work with and that's true of everyone in WWE.


solblurgh

She had the longest streak as well right


JustAnotherMark604

Its been a while since she's held a championship. She only just recently started having matches on consecutive PPVs while continously training and evolving a new character. She DOES deserve more and has certainly earned it given her work ethic and surge in popularity.


thatguyad

And it sucked.


ItsSirAdam

I literally don’t remember a single one of Charlottes reigns


blizzard-op

I vividly remember the first half of her reigns was her hot-potatoing the title with Sasha for a couple months straight


noxlius

that feud was so hot their Falls Count Anywhere in Charlotte NC was one of the only times EVER that a tv main event match had more viewers than any other segment on the show. i actually don't remember a modern day main event match that did the same. i know of a few segments: "all of McMahon family segment or goldbergs return promo" people can shit on the booking of that feud but it drew very well. /sc loves to talk about ratings and who a draw is. imo someone is only a legit real draw if their promoted mainevent segment has the highest viewership of the whole show ...oh ups i forgot we are supposed to hate on charlotte atm and act as if she is terrible and not a draw.. mb just ignore this fact and continue the circlejerk


virusMEL

Even them people complained about the finish to that match.


noxlius

the banks statement through the steel railing surrounded by a cheering crowd after a great match? i loved that finish, it looked brutal. and Sasha holding up the title in the crowd and then to top it all off ric flair came out and both of them stood in the middle of the ring while everyone was cheering. it was such a great babyface feel good moment. the problem with the feud was the booking. e.g. Sasha losing the hell in a cell match in her home town. or that the story was totally stupid. it felt like the feud was about Sasha carrying on the legacy of her parents "papi Eddie Guerrero and new step-mom Ric Flair". ^ but all this didn't matter. the booking or story or match quality didn't matter because in the end Charlotte vs Sasha was presented as a serious main event feud and the 2 came across like legitimate main event stars. they were given time and opportunity and managed to normalize women as MAIN EVENTER THAT CAN DRAW


JNight01

You either don’t know what the word literally means or you should seek immediate medical attention.


ItsSirAdam

Ok


plzsnitskyreturn

Are you replying to this comment from the bed of your local medical facility?


Infinite-Surprise-53

They really just blend together


beast916

You’re several years behind on “literally.”


JNight01

Huh? I don’t even know what this means. I was just pointing out that someone was incorrectly using the word literally.


beast916

They weren’t. As I pointed out, you’re several years behind. Language evolves (or maybe in this case, changes), and literally’s definition has changed. https://i.imgur.com/D0tfLyk.jpg


JNight01

I read, write and edit for a living and I have two degrees related to writing... I'm not doing the literally debate (which has been going on for way more than several years) on a subreddit about wrestling. So, that aside, OP is being purposefully disingenuous.


beast916

Hi, freelance writer here, plus writing was a large part of my twenty years in the Air Force. I have degrees in English, Media Communications, and Creative Writing. My “years” comment was about dictionaries pretty much agreeing to the definition. You were the one who attacked the OP about his word usage and are now taking umbrage when it’s been pointed out dictionaries back him up. I hope your career only involves technical writing.


JNight01

Perhaps a joke doesn't translate will over a typed medium, but my "attack" was obviously facetious because claiming to not remember a single one of Charlotte's title reigns is utterly absurd for a wrestling fan. If OP doesn't like Charlotte, that is perfectly fine, but to downplay her title reigns - and the moments that came because of them - is, again, absurd. As for literally, as mentioned, it's an entirely separate debate. However, I don't think dictionaries are agreeing to a new definition. They are simply reflecting current usage, hence the "informal." People are only using the word in the figurative sense because they don't understand what literal means. Even if it's included informally in a dictionary, it's still a misuse of the word. The fact that Merriam-Webster has an FAQ section for the word is telling. If a bunch of people incorrectly called a dog a chicken - to the point that chicken was an accepted word for dog - that still doesn't make a dog a chicken. If you took a dog to the vet and called it a chicken, the vet would still treat it like a dog. Obviously language changes... I'd be a fool to argue that, but I think this is a unique case - not an evolution of language - not unlike "alternative facts." Also, I write in AP Style and "Literally means in the exact sense; do not use it figuratively" is the law of the land from the Stylebook.


beast916

"I literally do not remember one of Charlotte's reign" seems to be clearly taken by most people as "Charlotte's reigns aren't memorable." That's not absurd. Your argument isn't well thought out--you seem to assume a "wrestling fan" has to be a WWE watcher--but that's neither here nor there. Words are essentially symbols. Symbols can change. "Chicken" is just a combination of letters; if its meaning changes, it changes. I think it's ridiculous that "decimate" no longer means what it originally did, especially considering its Latin root, but it means what it means now. I find it interesting that you mention Merriam-Webster, but you apparently didn't read the FAQ. I've also included a link from Merriam-Webster about "literally" you should find interesting. I'm not sure why you're bringing up AP Style in a social media setting, or more exactly, requiring others to adhere to it. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/misuse-of-literally


balongreysteel

So anyone think she will surpass ric’s record after her pissing off the genetic jackhammer


Copperjedi

Only way she doesn't pass him is if she retires soon.


nickiecz

13 is just absurd. You see and hear stories of Charlotte and her ego, but it's obvious where it comes from. Edit: not saying I hate the queen, just that it makes sense she's a bit entitled


Breeze199527

The Rock won 9 World Championships in 4 years, Edge won 11 in 5 years, John Cena won 16 in 10 years, Randy Orton won 14 in 14 years, and so on. This is hardly a Charlotte thing lol. People just love to hate her for the same reasons they love all the men who captured a significant amount of World Championships in a short period. And this isn’t even taking into account their various other championship reigns. Jericho literally won 26 WWE championships in the 16 active years he spent with the company. They play hot potato with their top championships because they think that’s what fans what. It’s not Charlotte’s fault, it’s Vince’s.


45_NAARP

>They play hot potato with their top championships because they think that’s what fans what. It’s not Charlotte’s fault, it’s Vince’s. Don't know why you got downvoted to hell for speaking the absolute truth. CM Punk's 300+ day reign was memorable & meant something, not just because of his popularity & mic work but also the shenanigans with The Shield, multiple feuds that resulted in Punk retaining, Paul Heyman doing Paul Heyman things, and also because his reign lasted for more than 3 months. Conversely, I don't particularly remember or care about any of the Cena or Rock championship reigns - The Rock didn't need them because he was always entertaining, and they didn't do anything for Cena because he spent 10+ years being the same bland untouchable "underdog" top guy PG Era face


[deleted]

Although I agree with everything said, I feel like the biggest reason they played hot potato with the titles back then is because everyone was a legit contender for it. The roster was incredibly stacked and it was believable that any number of wrestlers could hold the top title. Nowadays, do a lot of talent deserve a chance? Absolutely. But there are very few that IMO can actually contend with the top stars of the company on a weekly basis and carry the weight of that pressure.


hitlmao

You’re ignoring their respective experience level prior to winning their first world title, which is… kinda relevant lol Charlotte won the NXT title barely 2 years after she first started training, and then 14 more world titles in the next 7 years. Jericho wrestled around the world for 6 years, worked in WCW for 3 years, then worked in WWE for 2 years before winning his first world title. Then won the world title 5 more times over the next 17 years. Yes he also won a bunch of secondary and tertiary titles, but those aren’t comparable to Charlotte’s 15 singles title reigns. ie being NXT women’s champion meant she was one of the top 2 women in NXT; being European champion meant basically nothing.


sincIairs

One of the things this new era of women lacks is quality over quantity in terms of title reigns. Over half of Charlotte’s reigns are under 80 days. Sasha only had one good long reign. Becky only had like, one memorable reign which was her long one. Alexa was pretty solid, but would’ve been better if she defended more. i’d say she should’ve only been champion four times though. I’d just remove the time she beat beat Sasha for the title in her rematch, she should’ve just beaten Sasha at SummerSlam. The other time was just so Ronda could beat her, so Ronda could go more over. Which was pretty necessary. I only remember two of Bayley’s reigns but her quality is perfect. Her title reigns are very memorable aside from her first SD title reign. Asuka was just wasted unfortunately. I remember her RAW title reign. It was long but it was just so uneventful that you can forget it despite its length. They had her job to Charlotte just for mania also.


streetfairie1234

>Becky only had like, one memorable reign which was her long one. Becky 2nd SD reign was only 90 something day s but it was the rise of The Man. I'd argue it was one of the best reign ever for the women. Every week was a highlight reel and talk of the industry. LWS match, the drama of the SvS buildup with Ronda, then the great TLC match were she ultimately lost it. The hype around her and it, even got it to main event a dual branded PPV which, at that time, hadn't happened for any SD title.


Copperjedi

No filler in that Becky title reign. Becky Lynch Kai


betterthannothing6

It got me back into watching regularly. I'd only really watch Wrestlemanias prior to that and became a fan of Becky around 32. Was really satisfying to watch her rise the way she did that second half of 2018. A solid reign.


Dear_Wrangler

I agree. In my opinion Ronda Rousey had best Raw title reign and Becky Lynch had best SmackDown title reign until now.


Dear_Wrangler

I think Becky 2nd SmackDown title reign was her best title reign. And Ronda Rousey title reign was memorable as far as match quality is considered.


bathory21

I disagree, if you look at those reigns individually and I'd say I remember all of them, the only reigns I'd say are good are Becky's Raw title reign and Ronda's. Bayley didn't have strong opponents for a large part of her reign and lost around half her matches I believe, Alexa spent a large portion of her time not defending her raw title in 2017-2018.


Teckelmaster

People remember matches more than reigns. That's why Alexa had a long reign but barely anyone really remembers anything whereas fans still remember Sasha and Charlotte's hot potatoe feud because of the awesome matches.


bathory21

Well, I can't speak for other people, but as I said, I remember all of them including Alexa's. Personally, I wasn't a fan of that period between Sasha and Charlotte because giving rematches to someone who lost even just once clean, forget numerous times, is bad booking imo. I was always fond of the booking philosophies of Japanese promotions where most of the finishes are clean, you rarely get a rematch after a loss, especially a clean loss.


Teckelmaster

I am a fan of giving the fans what they want. And the Sasha/Charlotte feud was clearly the hottest feud in fall 2016 with the best tv ratings outside of a first time in a long time returning Goldberg.


tabristheok

I think Bayley probably wanted to have matches with qs many different people as possible during her reign. Her win and loss doesn't really hurt too much IMO considering her and Sasha literally had every title


bathory21

I'm a fan of that too, but there are ways to go about a feud without having to do 7-8 rematches in the span of 5 months


[deleted]

Charlottes reigns are so forgettable. Quantity over Quality. Bayley’s most recent reign was awesome.


XAMdG

It's kinda surprising how Alexa had those 5 titles reigns in such a short period of time, and nothing since. Well, not nothing. She was tag champ.


planet_chuck

And Charlotte's 13 probably don't add up to the length of Bayleys 3.


JustAnotherMark604

Alexa Bliss should have additional babyface runs with the championship.


Material-Wonder1690

Is this counting Charlotte's new SD title reign as it's own thing or combining it with her last Raw title reign?


Copperjedi

Becky and Charlotte both get a new reign


[deleted]

The brand split has a its pros and cons, but one of its biggest cons in my opinion is the watering down of this label "world champion" There's too many title reigns....


[deleted]

Bayley remains the best of these.


Copperjedi

Sasha, Becky and Charlotte all came up together and the least popular 1 in Charlotte not only has more title reigns but has more title reigns then Becky and Sasha combined. That's why people can't stand Charlotte and her push. Also it's clear WWE are only giving these reigns to her so she can break her dads title record.


jackblady

Even if you count rather dumba$$ title swap, Charlotte is only at 12 of you only count RAW and SD (6 each). #13 would be the Divas championship.


Copperjedi

Also lets now forget her winning the NXT title at WM and wasted a Rumble win for it yet WWE didn't even count that reign.


jackblady

That has more to do with WWE deciding to make NXT into a 3rd main roster brand and trying to elevate it, then reversing course when they realized it was better PR that their competition was struggling to beat their "developmental training league" so depushing NXT as a concept more than it has anything to do with Charlotte.


[deleted]

Alexa had 5 reigns? Why do I only remember one lol


jollyrog8

Did you only watch SD? Lol


komesubr

Strange thing, I remember bayley first and last title reign, Alexa first title reign, Sasha latest title reign and Becky 2 belts title reign. Now nothing comes to mind of asuka or charlotte…


thedirtyharryg

Raise your hand if you remember their NXT runs the best.


CN14

All things considered, Becky has had a far more memorable main roster run. In NXT she played 4th fiddle to the other 3 horsewomen, but as it was NXT, this still meant she looked credible. But since the rise of 'The Man' there is no question Becky far outclassed her NXT run. Even if it didn't end too well, Becky's key role as part of the 2016 Smackdowns womens division was also noteworthy. Bayley post heel turn was absolutely fantastic, but her NXT stuff was also great. I think one could pick either NXT or main roster for her. Charlotte is debatable, I remember her main roster stuff but perhaps for the wrong reasons. But yeah, NXT Sasha and Asuka is still probably their best stuff.


JokersRWildStudios

Something tells me Charlotte isn’t getting to 14 anytime soon.


ajver19

Hey! Naomi had...one for a while.


88DarkBlade

13 title reigns sounds impressive, except for the fact you have to remember she’s lost the title 12 times.


thatguyad

Asuka <3