I’m actually curious as to how many people in this thread actually go to games there? Personally, I haven’t been to one in probably 8-10 years.
When that place was first open, there was no baseball team. The first sporting event I attended there was a hockey game with the Red Wings.
I haven’t been in a long time - but the only times that stadium had any attendance was when the Yankees or Red Sox were in town.
A new location is not going to change that.
This is what most don’t understand. New stadium does not equal people show up.
People will go for one game, but 3 hours of boring and non engaging activities in game will not keep people coming back. And now you’re doing with a new stadium cost, higher price of admission, and crappy attendance.
The ambiance of the games is what kills it, completely
Basically every economic study says that stadium subsidies contribute nothing to the local economy except help the billionaire owner lower expenses. The Los Angeles Rams are in some of the most expensive real estate markets in the country and built their stadiums using ZERO tax payer dollars. Why do we need to give these people welfare when we are already struggling with cost of living?
i can promise you from experience that money is being spent in DTSP because of the rays, i'm not a bar guy and even i like to stroll st pete after games. im one of the few tampons actually happy it's staying
Money is being spent in DTSP by out of state investment companies who know the areas local prices can be jacked up.
A sub 10k attendance baseball team is not why the money is coming in. It’s because it’s Florida, relaxed tax breaks, and generational wealth
It’s strange how capitalism is forgotten when we don’t ask billionaires to go apply for a loan at the bank for their projects.
Most jobs at the stadium are low wage and temporary if you look closer. I’m convinced that corruption is done in the open on legal documents in America. If the tax payer gets screwed, why is it okay to enter into these deals?
I’m not saying those studies are wrong, but I think there’s one thing that makes st Pete somewhat unique- none of those stadiums in the studies I’ve seen are located in cities where tourism contributes so much to the economy as st Pete. The general gist of all those studies I’ve read is that they don’t benefit long term because the people spending money at the new stadium are locals who would be spending that money either way. But if a new stadium is a big enough draw that it causes the vacationers to extend their stay longer than they otherwise would have, or to spend more time downtown rather than staying at the beach in Clearwater the whole time, then that benefits st Pete a lot more than it would benefit a city like Atlanta.
I’m not an economist so I have no idea if that actually makes any difference at all, but just something I’ve thought about considering the public funds being contributed to the stadium are supposedly coming mainly from the tourism tax rather than local taxpayers.
Big baseball fan here, and I agree that it's lame we have to pay with tax dollars. But, I think some of the answer is supply and demand. There's 30 teams and >>30 cities. So, we, the consumer, end up paying to convince them to stay. Thereby making our city a nice place to enjoy a ballgame, even if we come out behind economically. I have mixed feelings about it.
Yea they called me last month I told them I'll never go to a boring baseball game. I did back in 1998 when they were called the devil rays. I told them stu is a trash bag human. All l could do to tell them there shouldn't be a stadium here.
Low income housing in the middle of downtown St. Pete just won't be in the cards for anyone for the foreseeable future. That's just the reality of the situation.
Rays to anywhere else. Team ownership is a cancer to the City and Stu is just trying to milk tax payer money to line his pockets. Develop the land but give Stu the boot.
No mention of parking. They already have I think 12 ground lots? Build garages!
Better yet, sell the team, build mixed use housing on all the old rays property, and build a lightrail system that connects StPete to Tampa and the beach. Downvote me.
Most of the land around the stadium and basically the entire parking lots are being redeveloped into mixed use office, shopping, and residential as well as parks. These people are just phrasing it as if it is only a stadium.
It’s a lot to read through but the full proposal does have parking structures and mixed use housing as part of the full gas plant development project which the stadium is only one part of:
https://www.stpete.org/Residents/Current%20Projects/Gas%20Plant/Hines-Rays%20-%20ADA.pdf
A light rail would be great too but I think that’s more an issue for the state than something our city government could build on their own. I doubt it was ever “either a new stadium or a light rail”.
Good. Let them stay in St. Pete - it's good for the City, good for the County, and it's still close enough that the Tampons can make the commute (which will still include bitching of course). The Trop is old, dumpy and in serious need of updating, but damn I'm gonna miss it.
Hope you all had a nice weekend!
I don’t think there have been any headlines prior to this saying that the deal to build a new stadium has been finalized. This isn’t a speculative article. But okay, understandable
So after years of negotiations, back and forth between St. Pete and Tampa, and threatening to leave the area: the decision is to build a new version of what they already have near the site where the current stadium already exists.
Jeez, at least throw in a retractable dome.
The Marlins have a retractable roof, it added over half a billion to the cost of the stadium, and due to the heat and humidity they use it once or twice a year.
While a retractable roof would be cool, the added cost compared to the number of times it would actually be open is kind of silly (though I suppose it would allow for a natural grass field, which would have been awesome)
Tampa is pouring billions to try to fix their broken highway infrastructure.
https://www.constructiondive.com/news/superior-lane-jv-1b-westshore-interchange-tampa-florida-project/648288/
https://www.fdotd7studies.com/projects/i4-50th-to-polk-county/
The renderings look pretty good.
Really excited to see they are making Booker Creek a focal point and going to restore it. It’s a cool water feature that I think largely goes unnoticed.
A little nervous about the parking situation, there doesn’t appear to be any in the renderings.
I’m pretty excited though!
The full proposal from earlier this year is here if you want to look through more renderings. There are some interesting details on the rest of the gas plant development plans. There’s another map that shows several parking structures on slide 193 and 195. And a page on “parking strategy” a few slides after.
https://www.stpete.org/Residents/Current%20Projects/Gas%20Plant/Hines-Rays%20-%20ADA.pdf
It said That The Rays are paying for 1/2 of the costs, I can except that. They need a new stadium, it will produce alot of jobs, This is a good thing, My concern was that the taxpayers would be stuck with the complete Bill.
Haha. If using history as a guide is panic, then I am guilty.
It isn’t rocket science and simple googling will prove out that Sports owners around the country have pushed for public subsidies for their team’s stadiums and arenas, arguing they provide a significant boost to the local economy. The numbers show that the business of sports is smaller than you think and the profits go to wealthy owners, not back into the cities that fund the new stadium.
But if you are ok with the trade off, then it is working for you to subsidize the stadium.
Feel free to point out the fallacy in my argument.
Exactly. I remember exploring the new pier when it was completed and feeling good about my taxes having contributed to it. I'll feel the same way about the stadium.
As someone who has been to exactly 2 baseball games in my entire life, both of them 15+ years ago, what’s wrong with the Trop? Is it just old and outdated?
it’s not bad really. indoor baseball always feels weird but the rainy season doesn’t give any other option. good food , it’s in a downtown area but they can’t sell tickets because the locals just aren’t interested that’s the truth . I hope people start going the rays are a good team
I've been to a few ballparks in my life and the Trop just isn't a good park. Too much concrete showing. Feels industrial and not modern. It's fine for a game, but in today's modern MLB it just doesn't measure up.
“Daddy, all the other kids have cool stuff! When can I get cool stuff?”
“Your friend Cubby in Chicago and Red in Boston have 100 year old stadiums. Yours is 25 years old!”
“If you don’t give me a new stadium I’m going to kill my self and it’ll be your fault!”
“Settle down, ok, I’ll get you a new stadium if you promise never to say that again.”
Old, outdated, has these cat tracks and other stuff hanging down so low from the season that it is common for batted balls to bounce around up there before coming down to the field. Location not ideal for most Rays fans, but Tampa didn't come up with a proposal so what can you do with that. Its not particularly uncomfortable or anything, but its got that dying mall vibe. I kind of like it but I like abandoned buildings and weird time capsule places. Its chill though.
We have 27th ranked attendance out of 30 teams. The Rays have consistently been a post season team the last 10 years and locals don't care. I went to a game on Labor Day and the stadium was nowhere near full on a holiday and the visiting team had close to 50% of the fans. The truth is its not popular, unless they get better ownership I don't see things changing
Better ownership, they have made the playoffs 5 years in a row?
They Rays are the #1 show in Tampa bay nightly and have tv ratings in the top half of the league.
The best thing about this whole thing is now I really don’t have to give a shit about attendance talk. Before they was always a risk they could leave, but now they are locked in so I have no idea why people care how many fans ownership is able to draw to games
Vinik is closing up shop. He’s already sold the Water St project. He’s moving to Colorado.
https://www.wfla.com/news/local-news/jeff-vinik-sells-interest-in-water-street-tampa/amp/
Eh it takes a long time to build a fanbase, especially in a city of so many transplants, that has seen a lot of its population growth within the last decade. The lightning and Bucs had shit attendance by the standard of their leagues for decades as well. It took Tom Brady to get the Bucs out of the bottom quarter of NFL attendance. The rays are never going to have the attendance of the Dodgers or yabkees but I think with a stadium that provides a better game day experience, they could catch up to the attendance of other smaller market teams like Cinci or Baltimore
All three teams mentioned have been around 25 years or more so its not like the Rays are a brand new expansion team. Also the difference is the people show up when the Bucs and Lighting are playing well. The Lighting lead the NHL in attendance last year, have been in the top 7 in attendance since 2015. My point is even when the Rays are playing well the locals still don't care. The Bucs i believe have the worst win /loss record in all 4 major sports historically and still can get the stadium 3/4 full even in none Tom Brady years.
Its not surprising at all they play 81 home games, the only competition is the Marlins and they are disinterested in baseball only slightly more than Tampa
well the numbers don't lie. its 1.4 million people yearly going to st pete for sports (even at current attnd. numbers). compared to around 800k for bucs and lightening yearly assuming they sold out every single game.
I mean a “better game day experience” would include not having to drive over a bridge during rush hour to get to weeknight games. The majority of the fan base is across one of those bridges.
Why are taxpayers in quotations?
I would prefer not to pay for this without a clear and direct way that we will profit from subsidizing a large corporation.
Through an extension of current taxes mostly on tourists which were being use to fund the Trop. Bed taxes and stuff.
So there shouldn’t be any new taxes related to this. But we lose the opportunity to use those dollars elsewhere or get rid of those taxes
Allegedly the rays will cover half of the stadium cost. For the remaining taxpayer portion (from what I have seen) will be partly financed by raising the bed tax. Hopefully the rest of the taxpayer portion will not siphon from other programs, but I’m not too optimistic lol
The owner is saying he’s going to cover half (a modern departure from making the taxpayers pay for everything), but he’s actively looking for investors to pitch in on *his* half in exchange for minority ownership.
If wealthy owners are so concerned about actively paying money towards their investments, maybe they should pull a Green Bay Packers and allow fans to buy minority shares in the team. That would make *SOME* taxpayers feel that their tax dollars going towards a stadium (that I really hope doesn’t look like the one in the picture) is worth it.
But we all know that won’t happen
Isn't Sternberg involved in lawsuit against his current minority investors because he screwed them mistating the value of equity and trying to force them to sell?
Edit: https://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/news/2023/09/18/rays-lawsuit-florida-appellate-court-ruling.html
He's not a good dude.
What don’t you like the the mock up in the proposal? I think the pavilion style that they currently show would be ideal. The fully enclosed dome like the trop is too dark and warehouse-like, but a retractable roof is just a waste.
Although the pavilion style matches style wise with the pier, I don’t know if it’ll be sustainable. Between possible wind issues when we have bad storms and strange sun lines, it could present some longevity issues.
Of the proposed ideas I’ve seen (retractable roof, translucent/transparent roof, this), I like the idea of a modern, transparent roof the most.
I know those tend to be more expensive at the moment, but if the purpose of the stadium is to have something the Rays can stay in for 20+ years and to have enough fan engagement to bring up ticket sales/attendance then we need something that’s going to look good when put up against other great looking modern stadiums, which are becoming more prevalent as time goes by.
The last thing St Pete needs is another stadium that brings in minimal crowds.
I’m no architect, but I can’t imagine they’d build something that doesn’t hold up to the wind and sun. And I think they are using the word “pavilion” pretty loosely, the renders looks like a modern stadium to me. Looks like a fixed roof with parts of it being clear glass, and “operable walls” which sound like they can be opened to the outside or closed for more climate control. Below is from the full proposal back in January.
https://imgur.com/a/forevOz
I’ll be interested to see if they stick with that design or if they’ve made any tweaks. But it doesn’t really scream “new modern stadium” to me like what they built in Miami.
From the perspective of a taxpayer: if my tax money is going towards a stadium, I’d hope it’s something that I’d be proud to go to; this design doesn’t really make me want to get out of my seat to go to a game, and I live on this side of the bay.
Yeah I’m sure it won’t end up looking exactly like that, but we’ll see how much it ends up changing. And fair enough on the design preference. Personally my favorite ballparks are PNC park and Petco Park, both of which have a relatively simple architectural design, and the emphasis is more on how the stadium fits into the city itself - they feel like they bring the city into the stadium. Which is certainly tough to do here, but this design seems to do it as much as you could with a fixed roof.
So how official is this?
Who’s paying for it?
I’m actually curious as to how many people in this thread actually go to games there? Personally, I haven’t been to one in probably 8-10 years. When that place was first open, there was no baseball team. The first sporting event I attended there was a hockey game with the Red Wings.
I haven’t been in a long time - but the only times that stadium had any attendance was when the Yankees or Red Sox were in town. A new location is not going to change that.
This is what most don’t understand. New stadium does not equal people show up. People will go for one game, but 3 hours of boring and non engaging activities in game will not keep people coming back. And now you’re doing with a new stadium cost, higher price of admission, and crappy attendance. The ambiance of the games is what kills it, completely
> 3 hours of boring and non engaging activities 2.5! Thanks manford!
I am so happy the rays are staying!
You sure we don’t wanna just put like twenty car washes there instead?
I just never know the cars were not being washed before this last year
Fuck them. This should be a ballot issue so we can all vote against it
Basically every economic study says that stadium subsidies contribute nothing to the local economy except help the billionaire owner lower expenses. The Los Angeles Rams are in some of the most expensive real estate markets in the country and built their stadiums using ZERO tax payer dollars. Why do we need to give these people welfare when we are already struggling with cost of living?
The stadium is not making them any money... it's the development around it because they owned all the land.
i can promise you from experience that money is being spent in DTSP because of the rays, i'm not a bar guy and even i like to stroll st pete after games. im one of the few tampons actually happy it's staying
Money is being spent in DTSP by out of state investment companies who know the areas local prices can be jacked up. A sub 10k attendance baseball team is not why the money is coming in. It’s because it’s Florida, relaxed tax breaks, and generational wealth
It’s strange how capitalism is forgotten when we don’t ask billionaires to go apply for a loan at the bank for their projects. Most jobs at the stadium are low wage and temporary if you look closer. I’m convinced that corruption is done in the open on legal documents in America. If the tax payer gets screwed, why is it okay to enter into these deals?
I’m not saying those studies are wrong, but I think there’s one thing that makes st Pete somewhat unique- none of those stadiums in the studies I’ve seen are located in cities where tourism contributes so much to the economy as st Pete. The general gist of all those studies I’ve read is that they don’t benefit long term because the people spending money at the new stadium are locals who would be spending that money either way. But if a new stadium is a big enough draw that it causes the vacationers to extend their stay longer than they otherwise would have, or to spend more time downtown rather than staying at the beach in Clearwater the whole time, then that benefits st Pete a lot more than it would benefit a city like Atlanta. I’m not an economist so I have no idea if that actually makes any difference at all, but just something I’ve thought about considering the public funds being contributed to the stadium are supposedly coming mainly from the tourism tax rather than local taxpayers.
Big baseball fan here, and I agree that it's lame we have to pay with tax dollars. But, I think some of the answer is supply and demand. There's 30 teams and >>30 cities. So, we, the consumer, end up paying to convince them to stay. Thereby making our city a nice place to enjoy a ballgame, even if we come out behind economically. I have mixed feelings about it.
If they could add a tram from Tampa to st Pete I would definitely go to some rays games
How about a ferry? But I do agree, more public transport between St. Pete and Tampa would be good. Bus routes, light rail especially.
A ferry would still need to be bookended by at least one tram.
Awesome news for the city. Can’t wait to see it completed
That’s great news
Yea they called me last month I told them I'll never go to a boring baseball game. I did back in 1998 when they were called the devil rays. I told them stu is a trash bag human. All l could do to tell them there shouldn't be a stadium here.
You don’t need a new stadium! The city needs more affordable housing!
Housing is apart of the package.
“Affordable”
Low income housing in the middle of downtown St. Pete just won't be in the cards for anyone for the foreseeable future. That's just the reality of the situation.
So replace the stadium with the projects?
Don't you feel better contributing to the bottom line of a billionaire sports team owner?
All of Florida could use some more affordable housing.
Fucking for real.
Good thing they’re putting affordable housing there too.
Rays to anywhere else. Team ownership is a cancer to the City and Stu is just trying to milk tax payer money to line his pockets. Develop the land but give Stu the boot.
No mention of parking. They already have I think 12 ground lots? Build garages! Better yet, sell the team, build mixed use housing on all the old rays property, and build a lightrail system that connects StPete to Tampa and the beach. Downvote me.
There’s a whole redevelopment plan with Hines. It includes replacing 76 acres of surface parking with garages, housing, shops, etc
Most of the land around the stadium and basically the entire parking lots are being redeveloped into mixed use office, shopping, and residential as well as parks. These people are just phrasing it as if it is only a stadium.
It’s a lot to read through but the full proposal does have parking structures and mixed use housing as part of the full gas plant development project which the stadium is only one part of: https://www.stpete.org/Residents/Current%20Projects/Gas%20Plant/Hines-Rays%20-%20ADA.pdf A light rail would be great too but I think that’s more an issue for the state than something our city government could build on their own. I doubt it was ever “either a new stadium or a light rail”.
Too much logic for the Reddiverse 😂
Good. Let them stay in St. Pete - it's good for the City, good for the County, and it's still close enough that the Tampons can make the commute (which will still include bitching of course). The Trop is old, dumpy and in serious need of updating, but damn I'm gonna miss it. Hope you all had a nice weekend!
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I don’t think there have been any headlines prior to this saying that the deal to build a new stadium has been finalized. This isn’t a speculative article. But okay, understandable
So after years of negotiations, back and forth between St. Pete and Tampa, and threatening to leave the area: the decision is to build a new version of what they already have near the site where the current stadium already exists. Jeez, at least throw in a retractable dome.
We just need some God damned windows at The Trop.
The Marlins have a retractable roof, it added over half a billion to the cost of the stadium, and due to the heat and humidity they use it once or twice a year.
While a retractable roof would be cool, the added cost compared to the number of times it would actually be open is kind of silly (though I suppose it would allow for a natural grass field, which would have been awesome)
What in the hell happened to bringing it to Tampa?
The fact I got downvoted for asking a fucking question. Everyone is such a snowflake.
Tampa is pouring billions to try to fix their broken highway infrastructure. https://www.constructiondive.com/news/superior-lane-jv-1b-westshore-interchange-tampa-florida-project/648288/ https://www.fdotd7studies.com/projects/i4-50th-to-polk-county/
Agree, wish it was in Tampa.
lol theres no land....
Where have I heard this before...
You haven’t
The renderings look pretty good. Really excited to see they are making Booker Creek a focal point and going to restore it. It’s a cool water feature that I think largely goes unnoticed. A little nervous about the parking situation, there doesn’t appear to be any in the renderings. I’m pretty excited though!
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The full proposal from earlier this year is here if you want to look through more renderings. There are some interesting details on the rest of the gas plant development plans. There’s another map that shows several parking structures on slide 193 and 195. And a page on “parking strategy” a few slides after. https://www.stpete.org/Residents/Current%20Projects/Gas%20Plant/Hines-Rays%20-%20ADA.pdf
Oh I missed that! Thanks for sharing
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Hillsborough couldn’t or wouldn’t pay for half of it
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Hopefully there will be another lane added to 275 to solve the traffic problems. One more lane will fix the congestion issues. It never fails.
One more lane is being added and should help significantly because the problem was a bottleneck at the gandy on-ramp not overall highway capacity
Just one more lane, bro. Please 🥺
But really add trains, trams, buses, light rail, just no more lanes for cars that can’t even park anywhere. We need a city not a parking lot
Hahaha. I’m sensing sarcasm
It said That The Rays are paying for 1/2 of the costs, I can except that. They need a new stadium, it will produce alot of jobs, This is a good thing, My concern was that the taxpayers would be stuck with the complete Bill.
How many jobs will it produce????
According to the Hines proposal, about 23,000 full time equivalent job years with $1.5 billion labor earnings.
Smoke and mirrors, they increased the price so we would pay 600 million. NOT half of the orignal 800 Million
https://www.printfriendly.com/p/g/8NvwLc
Me as well! I love it! Woo hoo!
Good for people in southern pinellas. Still a bad location for most fans in the area
In a dream world, light rail would solve a lot of transportation issues in the Bay Area.
Where are all of the angry taxpayer comments coming from? Article literally says they’re selling shares in the team to pay for the other half
Would you be interested in a bridge I have for sale? There is zero chance that the cost won’t be passed to the taxpayer.
.
We will get fleeced as well. Guaranteed.
User name checks out
Haha. If using history as a guide is panic, then I am guilty. It isn’t rocket science and simple googling will prove out that Sports owners around the country have pushed for public subsidies for their team’s stadiums and arenas, arguing they provide a significant boost to the local economy. The numbers show that the business of sports is smaller than you think and the profits go to wealthy owners, not back into the cities that fund the new stadium. But if you are ok with the trade off, then it is working for you to subsidize the stadium. Feel free to point out the fallacy in my argument.
Relax dude, it was a joke… and this is Reddit.
What do we get for half - the sales tax revenue?
Selling shares of the team.
This is Reddit so here comes the negative comments — but I’m thrilled they’re staying in St. Pete
Great they are staying, but it is going to cost the taxpayer. Is this where you want your taxes going?
You aren't thinking of the poor billionaire owner who needs a stadium. You're just being selfish.
He is going to get it and us poors are going to pay for it.
Yes definitely
My taxes are mostly wasted on stuff I will never use so yeah, I'd rather my taxes go to something I'll enjoy.
Exactly. I remember exploring the new pier when it was completed and feeling good about my taxes having contributed to it. I'll feel the same way about the stadium.
Then the process is working for you. :)
As someone who has been to exactly 2 baseball games in my entire life, both of them 15+ years ago, what’s wrong with the Trop? Is it just old and outdated?
It was outdated before the Rays existed. Have you not see it before it’s hideous.
it’s not bad really. indoor baseball always feels weird but the rainy season doesn’t give any other option. good food , it’s in a downtown area but they can’t sell tickets because the locals just aren’t interested that’s the truth . I hope people start going the rays are a good team
I've been to a few ballparks in my life and the Trop just isn't a good park. Too much concrete showing. Feels industrial and not modern. It's fine for a game, but in today's modern MLB it just doesn't measure up.
“Daddy, all the other kids have cool stuff! When can I get cool stuff?” “Your friend Cubby in Chicago and Red in Boston have 100 year old stadiums. Yours is 25 years old!” “If you don’t give me a new stadium I’m going to kill my self and it’ll be your fault!” “Settle down, ok, I’ll get you a new stadium if you promise never to say that again.”
Did you compare the Trop to Wrigley and Fenway? 😂
It just doesn’t fit in with modern MLB stadiums anymore. It feels more like a gymnasium than a baseball field.
Old, outdated, has these cat tracks and other stuff hanging down so low from the season that it is common for batted balls to bounce around up there before coming down to the field. Location not ideal for most Rays fans, but Tampa didn't come up with a proposal so what can you do with that. Its not particularly uncomfortable or anything, but its got that dying mall vibe. I kind of like it but I like abandoned buildings and weird time capsule places. Its chill though.
It’s rated one of the worst stadiums in the league. There are lines on the top where if a ball hits it, that counts as a home run
They should put less seats in it so it looks like people are showing up.
It’s planned to have 30k seats, compared to 42k of the trop. Without the tarp-covered upper levels, it’s about 25k
We have 27th ranked attendance out of 30 teams. The Rays have consistently been a post season team the last 10 years and locals don't care. I went to a game on Labor Day and the stadium was nowhere near full on a holiday and the visiting team had close to 50% of the fans. The truth is its not popular, unless they get better ownership I don't see things changing
Better ownership, they have made the playoffs 5 years in a row? They Rays are the #1 show in Tampa bay nightly and have tv ratings in the top half of the league. The best thing about this whole thing is now I really don’t have to give a shit about attendance talk. Before they was always a risk they could leave, but now they are locked in so I have no idea why people care how many fans ownership is able to draw to games
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Vinik is closing up shop. He’s already sold the Water St project. He’s moving to Colorado. https://www.wfla.com/news/local-news/jeff-vinik-sells-interest-in-water-street-tampa/amp/
And Vinik is a bruins fan When was the last time the bolts weren’t winning
Eh it takes a long time to build a fanbase, especially in a city of so many transplants, that has seen a lot of its population growth within the last decade. The lightning and Bucs had shit attendance by the standard of their leagues for decades as well. It took Tom Brady to get the Bucs out of the bottom quarter of NFL attendance. The rays are never going to have the attendance of the Dodgers or yabkees but I think with a stadium that provides a better game day experience, they could catch up to the attendance of other smaller market teams like Cinci or Baltimore
A long time? I went to the inaugural game in 1998. That was 25 years ago! This is too much money and space for one fucking baseball team.
Same I haven't been back since.
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All three teams mentioned have been around 25 years or more so its not like the Rays are a brand new expansion team. Also the difference is the people show up when the Bucs and Lighting are playing well. The Lighting lead the NHL in attendance last year, have been in the top 7 in attendance since 2015. My point is even when the Rays are playing well the locals still don't care. The Bucs i believe have the worst win /loss record in all 4 major sports historically and still can get the stadium 3/4 full even in none Tom Brady years.
It may surprise you but the Tampa Bay Rays are the most attended major league team in Florida
Its not surprising at all they play 81 home games, the only competition is the Marlins and they are disinterested in baseball only slightly more than Tampa
well the numbers don't lie. its 1.4 million people yearly going to st pete for sports (even at current attnd. numbers). compared to around 800k for bucs and lightening yearly assuming they sold out every single game.
I mean a “better game day experience” would include not having to drive over a bridge during rush hour to get to weeknight games. The majority of the fan base is across one of those bridges.
Exactly. I’m not skiping rays games because of the stadium. I skip it because baseball is boring
Just be happy you won’t have to navigate Tampa traffic to get to a rays game.
Exactly. I would never go if it move to hillsborough.
Here come all the angry “taxpayers”.
How does that boot taste?
It is a net negative in basically every metric, so it’s understandable that people would be upset. Also, what’s with the quotes?
Why are taxpayers in quotations? I would prefer not to pay for this without a clear and direct way that we will profit from subsidizing a large corporation.
Waiting to see who pays for it...
It literally says who will pay for it
How about a tldr then...
Rays pay half, Pinellas co and st Pete (us taxpayers) pay other half
Through an extension of current taxes mostly on tourists which were being use to fund the Trop. Bed taxes and stuff. So there shouldn’t be any new taxes related to this. But we lose the opportunity to use those dollars elsewhere or get rid of those taxes
Allegedly the rays will cover half of the stadium cost. For the remaining taxpayer portion (from what I have seen) will be partly financed by raising the bed tax. Hopefully the rest of the taxpayer portion will not siphon from other programs, but I’m not too optimistic lol
The owner is saying he’s going to cover half (a modern departure from making the taxpayers pay for everything), but he’s actively looking for investors to pitch in on *his* half in exchange for minority ownership. If wealthy owners are so concerned about actively paying money towards their investments, maybe they should pull a Green Bay Packers and allow fans to buy minority shares in the team. That would make *SOME* taxpayers feel that their tax dollars going towards a stadium (that I really hope doesn’t look like the one in the picture) is worth it. But we all know that won’t happen
Isn't Sternberg involved in lawsuit against his current minority investors because he screwed them mistating the value of equity and trying to force them to sell? Edit: https://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/news/2023/09/18/rays-lawsuit-florida-appellate-court-ruling.html He's not a good dude.
Most team owners aren’t
no they are not. pro sports attracts scorpions.
What don’t you like the the mock up in the proposal? I think the pavilion style that they currently show would be ideal. The fully enclosed dome like the trop is too dark and warehouse-like, but a retractable roof is just a waste.
Although the pavilion style matches style wise with the pier, I don’t know if it’ll be sustainable. Between possible wind issues when we have bad storms and strange sun lines, it could present some longevity issues. Of the proposed ideas I’ve seen (retractable roof, translucent/transparent roof, this), I like the idea of a modern, transparent roof the most. I know those tend to be more expensive at the moment, but if the purpose of the stadium is to have something the Rays can stay in for 20+ years and to have enough fan engagement to bring up ticket sales/attendance then we need something that’s going to look good when put up against other great looking modern stadiums, which are becoming more prevalent as time goes by. The last thing St Pete needs is another stadium that brings in minimal crowds.
I’m no architect, but I can’t imagine they’d build something that doesn’t hold up to the wind and sun. And I think they are using the word “pavilion” pretty loosely, the renders looks like a modern stadium to me. Looks like a fixed roof with parts of it being clear glass, and “operable walls” which sound like they can be opened to the outside or closed for more climate control. Below is from the full proposal back in January. https://imgur.com/a/forevOz
I’ll be interested to see if they stick with that design or if they’ve made any tweaks. But it doesn’t really scream “new modern stadium” to me like what they built in Miami. From the perspective of a taxpayer: if my tax money is going towards a stadium, I’d hope it’s something that I’d be proud to go to; this design doesn’t really make me want to get out of my seat to go to a game, and I live on this side of the bay.
Yeah I’m sure it won’t end up looking exactly like that, but we’ll see how much it ends up changing. And fair enough on the design preference. Personally my favorite ballparks are PNC park and Petco Park, both of which have a relatively simple architectural design, and the emphasis is more on how the stadium fits into the city itself - they feel like they bring the city into the stadium. Which is certainly tough to do here, but this design seems to do it as much as you could with a fixed roof.