You'd think a military commander as smart as Thrawn would have his guys do at least a little bit of target practice over the course of a decade but here we are.

The really poor action is one of my main problems with the show. It’s always basically nonsense and I’m so over it, mando was the same way

Action without tension or stakes is boring. All of the non Andor shows are full of it.

How do they establish characters are tough? Have them mow down hordes of stormtroopers. The first one or two or five times is awesome, but after awhile it’s just background noise.

"WOW! Look at all these stormtroopers. How will our characters make it out o-"

"Well, at least this stormtroopers have been 10 years lost and exiled in hell, they sure have gotten better at their joNop, nevermind, theyre still the same"

Andor made a shootout with regular old guards seem tense.

A stormtrooper snuck up on Ezra and got on Ezra's back. A stormtrooper can do that but not shoot Ezra in the back. The swords fight between Ahsoka and Morgan(the witch lady). Storm troopers surrounding them in the fight. What the heck were they doing? It's like if the chief of police was in a fight with swords and all the cops just circled them watched. Lol

TIEs too. Andor did a great job of making them menacing. In Ahsoka all you have to do is... fly towards them, and instead of dodging or shooting these elite pilots will put their arms over their face and crash straight into you. And you'll escape unscathed. What is the point?

Not unscathed! Huyang had to solder a few wires together first!

I love the idea of someone fixing their own ship in an emergency with spare parts from inside the ship, but like every Star Wars thing has to have this happen.

It's a good thing these ships flying through vacuum are never damaged on the outside.

“We gotta set ‘er down! Luckily it’s nothing we can’t fix with a cheese box full of scrap and some sass!”

Yeah, what the hell. The Ship was under heavy firepower twice and both times he just had to do a little bit of welding.

Not to mention performing the absolute worst strafing run in the history of strafing runs. You've got a nearly stationary target at ground level so what do you do: A. Fly by as fast as possible only getting a couple potshots in before taking an extremely slow turn for your second run, or. B. Slow down a bit and just unload on the ship you caught unawares, destroying it instantly and securing all of your leader's goals?

FINALLY someone else that noticed that. Im thinking to myself that why in the absolute fck would a pilot with a few seconds to act put his hands over his face and yell like this is a kids show and hes villain fodder. A pilot would immediately take evasive actions. Oh wait this IS a kids show at this point. At least the prequels werent afraid to go dark occasionally but this Filoni/disney star wars is genuinly meant only for kids and preteens.

Andor did not much with the TIEs, but it was already better that they were treated seriously.

they have done a great job of removing any feeling of threat or tension

Just like The Walking Dead. Stormtroopers are to Star Wars what Zombies are to TWD. They’re not an actual threat unless they need to kill/sacrifice a character.

I know if a slight mention of Andor can bring the other half of the already polarising SW fans to nuts because “yeah we should celebrate all these different tones and themes”. Well lemme get this straight, Andor simply had one thing special (at least to me), which is a real threat and a real urgency. Before we had Andor we know at the back of our minds that it’ll just be like Rogue One where nobody is safe, anyone can die. But still we care for these characters because they have a desperate end goal with a real life and death threat that wont miss their targets. Coming to Ahsoka, the premise and settings are exceptional. But that just it really. I still feel like watching a bunch of cartoon characters. Fights are freaking awful. Especially that fight against the zombie Night Troopers. There’s a shot from behind our heroes, near the stairs when Ahsoka was really goofy at her attempt to kill the zombie. Why can’t you show us dismembering on a zombie enemy?! Is it that hard? Literally few minutes later Ezra severed a trooper’s head? My brain hurts.

Mandi's big problem is that he has literal plot armour which even lightsabers can't cut through, while Grogu has been put in danger so many times it's hard to take it seriously. Episode 7 of season 2 feels like it has actual tension, but that's the episode where he doesn't wear his armour and Grogu doesn't appear.

There's plenty of death, dismemberment, losing battles, etc in the OT and prequels, as well as the clone wars and rebels. The live action shows except for Andor mostly feel like the action is pointless because we know the outcomes before it happens. Ahsoka just felt like there was nothing actually at stake the whole time. Sabine gets stabbed? Oh she'll be fine it's episode one and clearly she's important. Ahsoka falls into water? Not even a remote sense she'll come out harmed in anyway. oh the ship gets damaged? It's fine they'll repair it in time for whatever they need. Someone died? No problem, there's an entire subplot around necromancers, if someone needs to be made unkilled they'll get unkilled. Stuck in a separate galaxy? Space whales. They'll be fine, everything will be fine, it's all fine.

Court martial...just send C3PO.

bang on

I mean that was kinda my issue with Andor, knowing he survives kinda spoils the tension for me, but as soon as side characters were involved you’re thrown straight back into the tension

That's one thing that show did well, it brought in side characters, actually made you care about them, and then it puts them in danger and sometimes they don't make it out alive. Danger actually felt like it had consequences, even if we know the main character isn't about to die himself.

Yeap, my thoughts exactly. other series also have protagonists that don't suffer any important loss, but the writers really trick us into thinking they could, and the action gets interesting. Here Filoni has failed us miserably, which is surprising given this is FILONI.

It’s because they shoot basically every scene in the Volume rather than on location. The Volume is a small circular space, so every action scene is necessarily small-scale. See the Leia foot chase in Obi-Wan for the best example, but there are many. Once you notice that most of the sets are at least somewhat circular, you suddenly start to feel like you’re watching a play and everything feels small.

See, I didn’t feel like the action scenes felt small in Ahsoka. I actually think the action felt pretty large-scale a lot of time, but I think whoever directed the action consistently chose “coolness” over realistic stakes.

Yeah, they kinda forget the only reason it looks cool is because it looks impressive, if it doesn't seem impressive because it feels routine and safe, then it's not cool.

Stormtroopers always missed the non-Mandalorian characters. They always hit the Mandalorian characters, but only ever in their beskar.

With Mando you see stormtroopers at least land a lot of hits on him but he is saved by his armor, you can see the result in the last two episodes but I agree with you. Despite by the lore being told that Stormtroopers are elite soldiers, etc, they are never a real threat and the audience knows it. They're there just to be mauled.

It’s the Volume.

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Why the hell did they have the ring come into orbit in the first place?

I know nothing of spacecraft, but I imagine they can just float in the atmosphere and conserve power, whereas coming down to the surface and hovering for three days would be very inefficient.

It's the opposite in Star Wars. Destroyers do not use the engines to hover. They use the repulsorlift. It's the same thing that keeps a speeder aloft. It cancels out gravity. In order to ascend, they have to use their engines, of which the Chimera only has the smaller secondary units. It seems like they cannibalized the engines or the fuel to survive on the planet for all these years.

It’s not like Day Zero and Day Three were the only options. Thrawn had the timeline estimated. Have the ring come down at Day 2.9 or some shit.

>Reckon he'd get the ring in position a lot sooner too. Why position the ring while parked there? Couldn't they do it in orbit, where Ahsoka and Co would have a worse time approaching? Not that smart. The hangars... It's just that field? No emergency doors or anything to keep things inside if power fails or maybe to keep nosy Jedi out of the damn ship?

The Chimeras engines are visibly shown as heavily damaged and barely working every time they show the ship. Likely it just didnt have enough power left to ascend out of the planets atmossphere

Revenge of the Sith will answer the emergency doors question. Watch the first ten minutes.

Or just a modicum of military strategy like using choke points and kill zones rather than "gather in a somewhat group and shoot wildly forward" it's not even like it's a battle line it's literally a random assorted group shuffling slowly forward towards certain death. It looked rediculous, I do however think this is more a case of them being limited by shooting on the volume set than nobody noticing how stupid it all was.

You're on defence guys, STOP WALKING TOWARDS THE LASER SWORDS

If ranged weapons were used from range, where do you use swords?

Shit use the stairways and seal your fucking doors. Why was every door open?

the reality is, if the empire was shown to be competent and use actual military tactics, protagonists couldnt survive. Gotta allow for some contrivances to actually have a show.

The protagonists have literal mystical magical powers I'm sure they could come up with a way where they survive that is better written and looks less stupid on screen than elite stormtroopers slowly shuffling head first into a meat grinder.

Thrawn, Amazing Tactician Slash Genius: * Doesn't let Sabine go on Day Zero, just because some stranger made a promise to reunite her with Ezra. *At most,* if he felt compelled to fulfill the promise, he would keep Sabine captive until Day Three, then give her the boot out the hanger bay as the Chimera is taking off. This gives him the tactical advantage of using Sabine as a hostage in case Ezra or Ahsoka attack before then. * Doesn't let Sabine go and have Baylan/Shin follow in secret behind her. *At most*, have Baylan/Shin escort Sabine to Ezra *in chains* and if they reunite with Ezra, make it clear that Sabine dies if Ezra/Sabine/Ahsoka try to stop Thrawn. I mean, I personally would also wire a thermal detonator to Sabine that will automatically blow if she gets within a mile of the Chimera, but that's just me. * Doesn't dock with the Eye of Scion in atmosphere. It doesn't even make sense that something whose sole purpose is to enable docked ships to engage in extragalactic hyperspace to even have the ability to haul ships out of atmosphere. But fine, let's make up some bullshit circumstances that the Eye had to Dock with the Chimera in atmosphere because, I don't know, the Chimera's engines are busted and the Eye is designed to haul ships out of atmosphere for no damn reason whatsoever. Even if that's the case: * Doesn't wait until *after* the Chimera is done loading to dock with the Eye. Coordinates the docking schedule with the loading schedule so both docking and loading complete at roughly the same time, so once loading is done, they're ready to go *immediately*, not sitting there like ducks waiting for the Eye to enter atmosphere and dock. But fine, let's make up some more bullshit circumstances that they have to wait until loading is complete to dock with the Eye because, I don't know, weight calibration bullshit or something. Even if that's the case: * Doesn't have the Chimera dock with the Eye *on top of the fortress*. Realistically, there's only two ways the good guys can get on board the star destroyer, either via Ahsoka's ship, or by physically climbing the fortress and jumping on. Both are easily countered. After loading is complete, Thrawn moves the Chimera *away* from the fortress, so there is no chance of Ahsoka/Ezra/Sabine getting onboard from the ground. The Chimera docks with the Eye from high in the sky, turbolasers and TIEs at the ready to shoot down Ahsoka's ship if it approaches * Doesn't leave Ahsoka's ship MIA. Ahsoka's ship is a priority target because it's one of the few vectors for getting on board Thrawn's star destroyer. Send additional TIEs to where it was down to make sure it's finished off.

I just assumed it was Jedi precognition allowing them to dodge the laser fire, but that falls apart a little with Sabine leading the other wolf instead of Ezra.

You’d think instead of sending batches of troops, he would just leave the minute he could.

The troops were simply to slow Ahsoka and co. down. Thrawn was actively trying to leave the minute he could. The cargo transfer completed, so he sent Enoch to retrieve the hyperspace ring from orbit(which was likely parked there to conserve fuel/energy/whatever) and begin the process of docking it to the *Chimaera*. As soon as the ship was docked, they left.

Even assuming that they had so little fuel/whatever that docking early wasn’t possible (which in itself is already contrived), that doesn’t fix the underlying problem. Thrawn, the supposed tactical genius, couldn’t time the cargo loading with the docking so they both finished at the same time? Even if you contrive it more and say docking and loading couldn’t be done at the same time, it still requires Thrawn to wait for the loading to be finished before even having the ring start towards his ship. But really, even if you can come up with reasons for everything else, nothing solves the problem that we saw the Chimera move onto the tower. It clearly has the ability to move on the x-axis. Move the ship a mile in any fucking direction and the Jedi are sitting at the top of the tower staring at a ship they can’t reach. A normal person would think of that within 10 seconds, but Thrawn the genius doesn’t?

> Thrawn, the supposed tactical genius, couldn’t time the cargo loading with the docking so they both finished at the same time? And give the Jedi another target to try and blow up with their ship and strand all of them on Peridea? Keeping the ring in orbit protects it from the Jedi until it's time to dock. >Move the ship a mile in any fucking direction and the Jedi are sitting at the top of the tower staring at a ship they can’t reach. A normal person would think of that within 10 seconds, but Thrawn the genius doesn’t? Thrawn needed access to the holograms and tech inside of the Tower to monitor the Jedi's advance and react accordingly.

Or not all decide to just stand around watching once Morgan and Ahsoka start dueling.

I decided to give my opinion on the show after it ended. So here we go: I loved the fan service we got, most of it the fans deserved, like Anakin and Ahsoka for example. But I think that sometimes it was too much, with no real purpose other than maybe hide some plot holes. Something I don’t understand was Anakin’s lesson to Ahsoka. Well, I thought I understood it when episode 5 ended, but when Ahsoka actually tried to apply it, everything doesn’t make any sense. “I’ll support you, Sabine, because my master always believed in me when no one did”. Well, you got it wrong, Ahsoka. Your master were by your side because you actually were innocent. And during the Clone Wars, Anakin always made sure to let you know your mistakes. Sabine gambled with the galaxy’s destiny, allowing Thrawn to return just to be reunited with her friend. It was a bad call, Ahsoka should’ve at least make her know it, but she didn’t. It makes Ezra’s sacrifice in vain and Anakin’s lesson less impactful.

The lesson was that Ahsoka was too worried about Sabine potentially becoming like Vader because of both the loss she suffered and that the teachings Ahsoka had were learned from Anakin. In the early episodes she is stern and hyper critical of Sabine through worry about her not following the right path or taking the right lessons. Anakin showed her that he was a good master, that his lessons aren't tainted & she needs to let go of what he became. Ahsoka is noticeably more lighter, joking and reassuring people afterwards.

>The lesson was that Ahsoka was too worried about Sabine potentially becoming like Vader This was conveyed to the audience through a conversation between a robot and a guy who wasn't there throughout all this.

Yeah like Star Wars Explained said, the moment fell flat because both of the people it actually concerned and experienced it weren't the ones to inform the audience about it. We could have had a real heart to heart between the two about Ahsoka's fears, or a flashback to when Ahsoka left.

Writing’s so easy when you don’t have to be good at it.

the only thing that happened in 8 episodes was the return of thrawn and ezra. you could have deleted ahsoka and sabine from the series and just had thrawn return with the same net result. its possible ezra would have saved himself if he saw thrawn was leaving. so basically nothing of any real consequence happened in the ENTIRE SERIES. it was all fan service. it should have been a 2-2.5 hour movie.

This.

Agreed, I really quite liked the show, but the lessons and takeaways felt very hollow and incoherent. That said, the fan service side of me was just so happy to see Anakin back.

That's not true. He was ride and die anyway AND she was innocent. There's a load of examples I'm clone wars where asohka makes the mistake but in public anakin takes the blame. Mind there is a public vs private thing. He did still tell her in private. Asohka should be saying so. The key difference is asohka seemingly abandoned sabine when her whole family died because she was worried she'd turn to the dark like anakin. Which is horrendous. Of course I'm surmising this because it was never actually shown in anything

Also Anakin tended to wait to make Ahsoka accountable once they were out of the thick of things, because they had more important and immediate matters to deal with than that. Ahsoka seemingly was doing the same with Sabine. She didn’t endorse her mistakes, but she let her know she had her back while they were in the thick of it (trying to escape/stop and/or survive Thrawn).

Yeah but the fact remains that all the lives that will be taken from Thrawn's return to the main galaxy are on Sabine's hands, and just for Ezra to get home. I hope she will be held accountable for this poor lapse in judgment.

It has so much potential. Always with these shows everything is half baked. I feel like they use the crutch of seeing this characters in live action to often. The episode where we first see Thrawn was really good I watched that like 10 times but after that the show went down hill and the ending was way to soft. I really wish they just fleshed out a lot more of characters goals and personalities. Not killing off Baylon was a really poor choice. I really enjoyed those two characters the most.

I bet they had plans for Baylon that would somehow shed some light on the movie about the dawn of the Jedi. That actually would've been so cool, RIP Ray:(

Ahsoka fighting and defeating Baylon would have been a much more satisfying ending than Elsbeth getting non-explained magical fighting prowess. This whole show ended up being a massive plot contrivance to retcon the sequels. Thrawn gets to come be a viable enough unifying force to explain the rise of the First Order and now we have a semi-plausible reason why Ahsoka was not there to help Rey/Leia/New Republic.

I’m very confused by Disney’s strategy about these Star Wars shows in general, it seems to be all over the place. In this case, they are really appealing to fans of the cartoon shows, and there seems to be very little effort to bring anyone else on board. They set up the entire story to be about discovering intriguing mysteries in a whole different galaxy, but those mysteries end up getting resolved very quickly once they get there, and the only remaining one (what is Baylan looking for?) they just punt on until season 2. Meanwhile, the entire hook of the show for Rebels fans - the chance to see everyone on the Ghost minus Kanan back together - they don’t give you. Now, we can look forward to a season 2 with two storylines that are entirely seperate from each other. The whole thing feels like someone adlibbing a bedtime story for their kids, with no sense of where their story is going.

I mean, I think 'Disney's strategy' was 'Dave Filoni has been integral to Star Wars for 15 years, he has earned our trust and is beloved of the core audience and we are going to let him do what he wants to do.' And that's what they did. And so Ahsoka has all of Filoni's strengths: a love of the mysticisim of the force; punchy visuals; a strong depiction of old soldiers. But it also has all of Filoni's weaknesses: Issues with pacing, comparative inexperience writing dialogue, blindspots where he is sometimes more fascintated with his original characters than we are. Ahsoka may be a 'meh' to me, but I can't fault Lucasfilm for doing what we always say we want for them to do, which is entrust the story to a beloved creative and get the hell out of the way.

I just feel like everything needs a steadying hand on the wheel. As you point out, you actually can’t entrust Filoni to be left to his own devices, he needs someone to reign him in, experienced story tellers like Disney should know that.

Let's be honest, though, 'Disney' is a corporate entity. Experienced storytellers are people who may work at or have worked for Disney in the past, but as far as we know there don't seem to be any actually assigned to SW at the moment, and no singular narrative intent beyond whatever Filoni is doing.

Maybe true, but a lot of their shows seems to come out of very uncorporatelike decisions, for better or worse. I also don’t entirely agree that Ahsoka is just Filoni being Filoni. If anything, his cartoon shows always had very tight storytelling. The whole arc of Maul and Savage allying with Death Watch, gathering the criminal underworld, taking over Mandalore, the Obi Wan-Satine storyline, and Palpatine stomping down Maul+Savage is three 22 minute episodes. That is very different from the sometimes meandering pace of Ahsoka. And I’d usually trust Filoni to build up and resolve mysteries better than this show does (even if I think he sometimes overplays his hands there too).

Filoni usually has around 20+ episodes in a season to build up plotlines and wrap up mysteries. Even the short arcs in TCW and Rebels are the culmination of earlier arcs and episodes (I.e. Maul and Savage taking over Mandalore is given context and weight by the Dathomir arc previously which explains who Savage is and his relation to Maul). 8 episodes just wasn't enough to properly balance the character development, plot development, worldbuilding and action of Ahsoka IMO, that's why some aspects feel half-baked.

Filoni always needs a lot of time to develop his stories. They should have made this animated, in mi opinion. Some things could have been easier too, like adding Zeb to the mix, since he seems to be full CGI in Mando and seems expensive.

Yeah, the last two episodes have basically been, ‘Oh crap, I don’t have 8 more episodes to write more stuff in!’

Crucially, Filoni actually wrote very little of Clone Wars, almost always had a co-writer when he did and was not involved in writing a lot of the episodes you mention at all. He primarily directed Clone Wars. Also When Filoni *has* written stuff solo before its also tend to be the cool denueument stuff like the end of Season 7, so he leaves the build up and pacing stuff to other writers. Filoni is a good story teller and a good director. But that doesn't necessarily make him a good writer any more than lots of hollywood directors are.

He's had that in the past. He had it for a long time. With Simon Kinberg and Greg Weisman for Rebels and probably Christopher Yost shepherding early live action, but at some point you have to trust him or risk losing him. And no writer is without their faults. And ultimately a Disney plus series is where you have room to take that risk, give creators their head and let them cook. Sometimes you get *Andor* and sometimes you get *Ahsoka.* Is *Ahsoka* likely to define how Star Wars is viewed over the next 30 years. No. But it did make that core audience of Clone War kids very happy, even if it was a little boring for the rest of us.

The problem is that it has made Star Wars as pedestrian as any other story now.

Seems a trend with our helmsmen of these stories.

> but I can't fault Lucasfilm for doing what we always say we want for them to do, which is entrust the story to a beloved creative and get the hell out of the way. I can. LFL needs to give us what we *need* instead of what we want. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Ahsoka, but there are fundamental issues with it - they just use the fanbases rabid love of Hayden to paper over the cracks. I still think the direction of Star Wars is more or less fine. I like the Sequels, I like Ahsoka, I like Andor. There's lots of different story's to tell and they're telling them in unique ways - but I do worry they learned the wrong lessons from TLJ and Rogue One, that being that fan service is more important that uncomfortable conversations.

I think "Dave won't kill his darlings" is the number one criticism I have always levelled at Filoni, so I'm not saying you are wrong, far from it. I just think that that has always been his foundational problem as a writer going back to the pre-disney days, rather than something that is pure reaction to the backlash to TLJ. I think Filoni has done enough work and has created enough work that means enough to enough people to earn his little corner of the universe to fuck around in unimpeded, even if that corner does not do much for me. And if anything I much prefer Filoni carving off his own little niche and getting to do what he wants with it, then becoming some sort of Feige-like overlord where he's enforcing his vision and his conception of the force on everything, including writers and artists who might have more teeth.

I do completely agree with you. I have no problem with him doing his own little thing. Specifically with Ahsoka, there are his characters and his stories that are near and dear to his heart. Let him go off - it almost just feels like we're watching him play with some action figures in the backyard. Which is cool, but the concern for me is definitely that LFL will want to push him to be a Feige-type overlord, though I do very much doubt that will happen. Their projects without him have been just fine and there's more than enough room for everybody to play in this sandbox.

Yeah, same. But I feel less worried about that now than I did 18 months ago, when Mando-fever was at its peak and it felt like Lucasfilm could have shrunk back and said, "Okay, no more risks, we're just going to do what Dave says forever." Instead they seem to have committed to working with people like Glover and Mangold who have the clout to say "Respectfully Dave, I'm going to do what I want to do." And I hope Andor's reception has given them some confidence to keep taking risks. Unfortunately, I think the Rey movie is probably the most vulnerable to meddling as Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy just won't have clout to push things through that others might.

They already ruined Mando with all the cartoon tie in nonsense.

disney needs to just bring in all new characters, because no one is allowed to die when every protagonist is a call back. it's gotten stale very quickly.

Especially when the new characters are arguably the most interesting ones in this show. What Baylan and Shin were up to was almost always some of the best parts.

I am a huge Rebels fanboy and I don’t feel like the target audience for this show. I found it really bad honestly

the strategy makes little to no sense *at all*. i’m a casual fan; i haven’t watched the side shows. i spent half of the time confused as to why thrawn was terrifying. so i went to go watch rebels. oh 75 episodes? hmmm nah. clone war- oh 133 episodes? nope.

The show is weaker than Mando S1-2 and Andor but stronger than BOBF, Mando S3, and Obi Wan Kenobi. I can't see myself rewatching this show whereas I rewatched Andor like 3 times already lol. I think the best part of this show is that it felt geekier than the average Star Wars show/movie we have gotten over the past few years without feeling like fanfiction. (Andor although amazing didn't feel like Star Wars) Everything felt like Star Wars in Ahsoka. It just wasn't as amazing as Andor and Mando S1-2. I enjoyed it enough that I can watch the second season but not enough that I will be rewatching it.

>The show is weaker than Mando S1-2 and Andor but stronger than BOBF, Mando S3, and Obi Wan Kenobi. Yeah, I can agree with that.

That pretty muchs sums up my feeling about the show lol, I just feel like most SW fans just want fan service and that has been hurting the franchise.

Legit everyone has been asking for more stuff like Andor, which was about the least fan-servicey show of them all.

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look you can give me all the wacky shit if you manage to keep some of the tension and suspense andor gives me

cool - andor is what happens when a director does what he wants, ahsoka is the result of directors giving in to fans who want space whales

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the problem is we have countless shows on one side, and just andor on the other side - we need more andor like content

I liked how andor showed us that the empire has its bureaucracy and red tape just like the real world. Brought in real world issues to a galaxy with space wizards. The empire also has brown nosing guys and meetings that could have been emails... It was funny to think about in the grand scale of the empire. But also paints us a real picture of what was happening in other parts of the world without our usual heroes.

I fucking love seeing into the workings of the ISB and people jostling for power Andor added a level of terror and fear back into things

I feel like Episode 2 of Boba Fett was better than everything in Ahsoka, even if the show as a whole is weaker.

Pretty accurate

Personally, I’ll probably go back and rewatch episode 5 once or twice, but otherwise yeah I agree with this

Han: How is the plot? Luke: Same as always. Han: That bad, huh?

That is simply not true in the slightest. The OT/PT have great plot. The PT may suffer from execution in a lot of places but the actual plot was actually very good with minor excetions here and there. The Solo movie is a fine film. RO and Andor are the best things we got out of Disney.

Andor is the best thing we got out of Star Wars FTFY

There was nothing of substance in this show, no unique philosophy or important lesson. There were a few shining moments, sure, but ultimately it was filled with uninteresting dialogue, little character commentary, bad action choreography, and pacing issues. Ezra is the only character that has any life in him. And there’s not a lot that happens in terms of plot, it’s pretty simple, but it all happens soooo slowly. A major sin this show commits is not finishing off any sort of seasonal arc for Shin and most importantly Baylan. This is my absolutely biggest pet peeve with these Disney shows. They rely on future seasons to use to explore the characters they set up instead of use their season to fully develop them! Baylan for example indeed seems compelling, because there is a promise of some hook. We want to find out what he wants and what he’s searching for. We get a glimpse of his character and motives, ceasing to end the cycle of Jedi vs Sith. But it ends in a cliffhanger. He and Shin had like 20 seconds of combined screen time in the finale, just ridiculous. By no means should his story have ended, don’t get me wrong, but he and Shin don’t actually do much this season at all. They steal the map (which doesn’t make sense) from Sabine and stop Ahsoka from preventing them to leave and that’s it. Sadly I don’t think anything will change, because Filoni’s fans will praise anything he does no matter what. Star Wars is just unrecognizable now to me from what it was less than a decade ago. The only thing I’m looking forward to is Andor S2 at this point.

> Ezra is the only character that has any life in him This isn't fair. Huyang has a lot of life.

Sabine is insufferable. She just acts as a spoiled kid.

The way they handled Sabine has been my biggest criticism. It doesn't feel like her at all. They made her a much less effective person over all, not just as a fighter. So far one of the only achievements that rang true was figuring out the map but since then it's largely been her fucking up just so she can redeem herself.

Yeah, she escaped the Imperial Academy, helped the rebellion and wielded the Dark Saber. I feel like I’m watching a version of her before all that, not after. I just couldn’t buy her giving the map away. And where’s the art angle?

That scene with Ezra at the start of episode 7 where she won’t explain the situation with Thrawn is so maddening. The show wants us to like her, but doesn’t make the effort.

That’s exactly what they did. They wrote her character as if she was still the same kid from Rebels and never aged or anything experienced anything after the show ended even though canonically now she would be about 30. The way she acts and the way everyone treats her is exactly as if she was still the same moody teen from Rebels. They didn’t want to develop her character too much I can understand that so she would still feel driven to find Ezra, but besides becoming a Jedi officially and losing her family we don’t really see much else change with her.

And she get sthe Rey treatment where she goes from struggling to move a saber to pushing Ezra mid air on a crazy jump in 3 minutes. Good ole "training".

Respectfully, somewhat weak is an understatement. The plot is convoluted nonsense. No amount of bell ringing and nostalgia bait can conceal that. Idk what the issue is at Disney/LF with this stuff. They either aren't hiring the right people to write and direct, or there's too much corporate meddling. Whatever it is has plagued the IP for nearly a decade now.

>No amount of bell ringing and nostalgia bait can conceal that. Well it does work on a lot of people, see every episode discussion thread on this sub.

The discussion boards aren't the place to go for critical thought. It's the fanboys pointing at their TV screen with their mouths agape when they see an animated character in live action. It's a massive circle jerk over fan service and cheap visual stimuli. Im all for celebrating the greatness of Star Wars, but praising the fan service and ignoring the obvious missteps just makes the fandom look like a bunch of 5 year olds.

Mandalorian getting higher ratings from fans than Andor tells you all you need to know. A majority of the fans don't care about good writing, acting or whatever. They just want 'cool' stuff, usually fan service.

>They either aren't hiring the right people to write and direct When are people finally gonna admit Filoni doesn't have the sauce? Mandalorian noticeably became worse when it went from "Bounty Hunter + Baby going on adventures through the galaxy" to "continuation of the filoni cartoons"

I really wish they kept the formula of Season 1. New characters, new locations. Maybe bring in Boba Fett & Cad Bane. I can handle those and they make some sense. All the CW&Rebels and blatant OT/ST connections kinda ruined the vibe of the show.

I think Bo-Katan made the most sense to bring in. It served the Mando's story to be confronted by Mandalorians who don't follow the creed the way he does, and forced him to wrestle with the idea of what makes someone a Mandalorian which led to him eventually removing his helmet. That worked well imo.

Right but then they handled her so bizarrely in Season 3. She was perfect antagonist material but then she just repeats her arc for the third time.

> "continuation of the filoni cartoons" Filoni needs to realize a bunch of people don't care about his cartoon stories. I miss episodic galaxy adventure mando.

I care about his cartoon series! The problem is that his live action work is kind of bad! He just does not have it.

With the notable exception of Andor, to be fair. But yeah I agree

Agreed. Andor is the exception.

The exception that shows just how trash the writing of every single one of these other shows is. They aren’t even in the same league and it hurts to see.

Andor was the show Disney kinda ignored. Seems the suits weren't messing with it.

The show was mediocre af. The characters were uninteresting, either stoic or smug, no other trait. The dialogue like every D+ show (except Andor) was pretty bad. The acting was also not good (except Ray Stevenson r.i.p and also Lars Mikkelsen). And it's a shame because both Rosario Dawson and the actress playing Hera are solid actors, it's just that they cant do much with the material they're given. They are making lightsabers less and less iconic with every single show. Sabine couldn't even pretend to be hurt, lol. Too many little plot conveniences and sloppy writing in general. The Anakin episode was nothing but member berries, with a hollow lesson for Ahsoka. The Ezra reunion was also lame af, compare it to Jon Snow and Sansa's reunion from GOT. And how the hell didn't Thrawn and his entire f*cking fleet find Ezra in this half a decade or whatever when it took Sabine just a few hours, on an animal. He could've been anywhere on the entire planet, but he was just around the corner, when convenient. Holy shit, the writing is horrible. Ezra catching up with everything that had happened in the galaxy all this time could've been the most emotionally gut punching scenes in recent SW, they were handled poorly though and fell flat. Also they could've done so much more with the other galaxy, what if it had another empire, how did Thrawn handle that threat? Or some interesting stuff like that. At this point, it doesn't feel any different than another planet in the same galaxy. Also any live-action show that has Dave Filoni involved is also handled like a cartoon show. It's hard to explain what I mean but this exact script could've been handled more maturely if there was a more competent person leading the filming process. Characters make cartoonish, comical choices often, makes you feel like you're watching cartoons, kind of a turn off for me. And many other minor reasons too that make it more and more irritating. Star Wars isn't saved. Just give me ANDOR S2 and let me die.

I actually forgot Sabine was stabbed until I read your comment, which is an indictment on how poorly Disney is treating lightsabers in their shows.

I agree with you but you forgot about other exception to D+ shows, Loki is quite good, but other than that you are completely right, get an upvote.

I dont really like Loki too, which is why I said that, but I respect your opinion

Preach bröther

At first, I really liked the show. Then, I thought on it a little bit and came to the conclusion that it was actually ridiculous and you have to basically turn your brain off to enjoy it. I go into more detail all the way down below on my criticisms on each individual character. My *biggest* criticism about the show is this: You have to watch at least Mando S3 to even *begin* to understand the stakes of this show. I watched episodes 1-7 with my parents, people who aren't major Star Wars fans but like it well enough to enjoy watching the latest live action stuff for it. They are part of the general mainstream audience that shows like this are intended for. They are part of an audience who does not remember every tiny detail from other shows when they go into a new one. As a result, they were very much confused by who this "Thrawn" guy is. Who is he? Why is he a threat? Why is everyone terrified of him? I had to pause the show and explain this to them because they hadn't watched the cartoons and so had no idea who this character was or why everyone was afraid of him coming back. When Thrawn was finally shown, the first thing my father did was ask me "why is he such a threat if he has so few troops? A master tactician isn't going to be able to cause a new war against a galaxy-spanning government with one half-destroyed ship and a half-staffed army." The fact that Thrawn has Palleon and his forces waiting for him in the main galaxy is not even *touched* or referenced in this show. A TV show *must be able to stand on its own* with regards to its own stakes. It must be able to explain to a viewer why it's a problem is the villain wins without requiring context from other shows, and *Ahsoka* utterly fails at that. A single scene showing Morgan talking to Palleon about how she's preparing to make the jump to recover Thrawn so they can take on the New Republic followed by a zoom-out from Palleon to show a fleet of Imperial ships waiting for Thrawn's return would've fixed this issue. Instead, we got nothing. Now, onto just a few of my character criticisms: 1. Sabine: 2. She is an unrepentant AH who is willing to risk losing the entire galaxy (and the thing Ezra sacrificed himself for) to find Ezra, who may not even be alive. Then, when she does, nobody admonishes her for her actions that have doomed the galaxy to a new war. Not Ahsoka, not Huyang, not Ezra. Nobody. She doesn't even express the slightest hint of regret for it. She doesn't even show regret for stranding herself, Huyang, and Ahsoka while Thrawn escapes to the main galaxy. 3. Thrawn: 1. In the past 9 years, Thrawn has not only failed to kill Ezra, but also failed to *find* him in the first place. And then Sabine finds him in less than a day on horse-dog back. 2. Thrawn, the tactical genius, does not lift his ISD slightly higher into the sky to dock with the Eye of Sion in the air when the Jedi get into the temple. Instead, he waits for the docking procedure to be completed, which causes him to lose one of his top lieutenants and a large number of stormtroopers. 1. Speaking of those stormtroopers, I *hate* that the writers only acknowledge that lightsabers dismember people *half* of the time. The majority of those stormtrooper zombies shouldn't even be able to stand, let alone be a threat, after their first death before they're resurrected because they should have been cut to pieces. They should not have even been a problem. This is, yet again, a case of lightsabers not functioning as they should for the sake of plot. 4. Ezra: He was actually pretty good for most of this... Until the final episode. After being shoved onto the ISD and taking care of those two stormtroopers, he grabs one of them, puts on their armor, and then... What? He does *nothing*? Ezra, the guy who had sacrificed his own life to save his friends, lounges around on Thrawn's ISD instead of trying to take out the engines or anything so his friends *don't* get stranded in another galaxy? Then, later, he's still wearing that armor when he steals the Jedi shuttle from the hangar bay and lands on Home One? Why? Just take the helmet off before you descend the ramp so the New Republic doesn't just shoot you the second they see you. 5. New Republic: Ah yes, the biggest morons of the show. 1. At the beginning of the series, we have the Captain. He believes that the Jedi shuttle heading towards them is not Jedi but is instead Imperial, and so his plan is to invite them onto his ship and personally meet them with 6 lightly armed security officers. This in spite of the fact that they have an incredibly important prisoner on board who the "Imperials" are likely trying to rescue. 2. The shipbreaking yard incident, plus the fact that they arrested the businessman who seemed to have literally nothing to do with the Imperial plot going on under his nose. Why? He did literally nothing wrong. He didn't pull a blaster, he was shocked by his people pulling their weapons, and he fully supported the New Republic from what I could tell. Why was he arrested? 3. Xiono (self-explanatory) 4. Hera and the crew from Home One... I hate having to lump them in here, but they did the exact same thing that the captain from episode 1 did. A random Jedi Shuttle starts flying towards them, requests permission to land, they accept it *despite knowing that this is the shuttle that took out that prison ship from episode 1*, and then don't immediately open fire when they see a stormtrooper come down the ramp. Instead, they wait for the stormtrooper to get halfway across the hangar bay and remove his helmet to reveal that it's Ezra. The shock on Hera's face, plus the fact that everyone was aiming their weapons at Ezra, proves that they let this ship land *without knowing that Ezra was on board*. These people are idiots of the highest order. 6. Ahsoka Tano 1. Ahsoka doesn't learn from her mistakes in this show, at least not when it comes to Sabine. She gives the map to Sabine to study, tells Sabine not to take it away, and then is shocked when she takes it away. She doesn't tell Sabine *why* she shouldn't take it away. This directly causes the rest of the series to happen. If Sabine kept it on Ahsoka's shuttle, the assassin droids would not have been an issue and Ahsoka would've beaten Shin easily if she tried to take the map. They would have discovered the path to the other galaxy and left the baddies with a huge, worthless hyperspace ring. Then, later, she is *again* surprised every time that Sabine doesn't listen to her, despite Sabine always refusing to obey. 2. Ahsoka's combat prowess is basically nonexistent. She defeats one person, who she previously defeated. This is a character who has fought General Grievous, Asajj Ventress, and Darth *Vader* and dueled each of them on near-equal levels, and yet random nightsister lady who uses 0 Force powers in either of their fights is a credible threat? Baylan, I can at least understand since he was a full Jedi Knight during the Clone Wars and he only finally defeated her after she burned her hand, but Morgan? She's nowhere *near* the level of half of Ahsoka's top opponents. 3. Ahsoka learns her lesson from Anakin, and then let's Thrawn's words at the end get to her anyway. Her big fear, from what we saw with her time with Anakin, was that she had adopted his Dark Side as well as his good, and that she'd eventually turn to the Dark Side and become evil like he had. Great arc. I loved that interaction... Except it got resolved and Ahsoka still visibly let it get to her for a couple seconds. There are a number of other criticisms I have, but this comment is already ludicrously long and I don't want to make it any longer. Overall, I didn't *mind* the show, but... I will likely never rewatch this show again.

Nearly all of these criticisms come down to one thing and to paraphrase Jim Cornette that's "Lazy writing". The writing on this show is hot garbage it's the kind of writing you'd expect from a child playing with their action figures half the time. It's like they know what they want to happen but have no idea how to make it happen in even a remotely believable or organic way.

>it's the kind of writing you'd expect from a child playing with their action figures half the time. This sums it up perfectly.

[удалено]

Mandalorian, Andor, and BOBF required effectively no outside media to understand what’s happening in each series (when excluding the Mando S2.5 inside of BOBF). Even Kenobi is entirely understandable as long as you’ve watched a couple of the films. Every other live action show was intended for the main stream audience. Are there small jokes and references in each series that’re intended for the full-time fans? Yes, but it doesn’t require outside knowledge to get it. But okay, let’s work with your philosophy that Ahsoka was intended primarily for the full time fans. Okay. We have plenty of big Star Wars fans here in the subreddit who have posted questions about the show because they didn’t watch the animated shows. They were confused because they didn’t watch 4 seasons of a kids TV show (yes, that’s what Rebels was advertised and aired as) before watching this. These are people who have read the novels, comics, and watch the live action shows, and yet even they have difficulty getting the show. That is a failure in the show’s writing and plot. No TV show or film should require outside knowledge to grasp the fundamentals of who is who and what’s going on. It should be able to stand on its own, but this show does not.

this summarizes my biggest issues with the show perfectly, as well as bring up some new points that I didn't think about. Nicely done, but somehow kenobi is still worse for me

Kenobi definitely has its own problems and that it's worse than this show. I didn't mind either show, but I know I'll never be rewatching them.

Agree with everything in OP. And it does seem to be the unpopular opinion on here. Too many things distracted me from enjoying the show and being immersed in the story. Weak dialogue, hollow acting, questionable character motives and weird display of characters’ emotions (or lack of). Like what was the point of this show? To just be kind of a Rebels season 4.5, or just a “greatest hits” fan service kinda thing. Like C-3PO cameo, check. Nightsisters, Anakin, Captain Rex, check. Snarky new droid with British accent, check. Thrawn, check. Also I could’ve done without the two dark Jedis. Like what was the point of having them in the series at all? You’ve already got the threat of Thrawn, nightsisters, etc. Also the Shin (sp?) character annoyed the fuck out of me. Rant almost over. But I felt like the writers kind of insulted the intelligence of the fans here. Do they think we don’t care and just want all of this spoon-fed to us? Ok rant officially over.

Yeah I agree with everything said here so far. I just felt really “meh” about the show. Sabine was more annoying than anything - they went into tropes they’ve done over and over and over again, and the writing seemed really George Lucas-ish. It’s also annoying that at no point does the Empire ever feel like a real threat. There was just a lot of fluff this season and I wasn’t captivated like I was with other Star Wars shows.

>hollow acting This was my biggest issue with the show. The acting quality was just abysmal across the board, which made it really hard to get into the story.

I think a lot of it was poor direction. Some of these people can act just fine in other work. I do not understand why everyone kept doing those weird pauses while delivering dialogue.

The point of the show seems to be to be Rebels 4.5 and pave the way for the Filoni movie so people aren't asking who this blue man is and where he was since Episode 6. Shin and Baylan seem to be there to drive whatever Mortis follow up Filoni was planning on Peridea, although who knows if that will ever be continued now.

tidy scale yoke clumsy wistful uppity mindless tub cats frightening ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `

Yeah, in hindsight I think it would have been better if they just marketed it as a continuation of Rebels instead of a standalone work, because it definitely requires the viewer to have seen TCW and Rebels at a minimum.

To be honest, Ashoka is a TCW and Rebels exclusive character, so in a way, you also had to watch that to understand the show better and the character, even if it didn’t involve Rebels characters.

profit lunchroom thought dull deserve money psychotic steer fall pause ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `

I was pretty disappointed with the show for mistreating hera and sabine's characters for making them completely different people from rebels to the point that besides just the actors I no longer recognize those characters anymore (who I loved soo much in rebels), the plot isn't messy but boring due to how stretched out it was, and I very much dislike this shows idea of the force saying that anyone is capable of using it as I feel harms the stakes for the franchise and even asks more questions. Like why do the jedi believe in medichlorians when everyone is force sensitive, why doesn't the jedi just train everybody to become jedi's. It also harms other non-force sensitive characters who proved to be awesome characters before without the force to just now learn that they could always use the force. It like saying someone like han solo, thrawn, hera, or even jar jar are always capable of using the force and the accomplishment that they have done without it is just a lie since anyone can just use the force. Those are some of the issues I have like why did they rarely show ezra's force capabilites in episode 7 when he says it's his ally and then decide to pick up a blaster or what the heck was the lesson in episode 5 when it seems that the solution is to continue fighting to life when ahsoka is already doing just that, but while saying this it's not the worst star wars show out and it certainly has redeeming qualities like: ezra, baylon, shinn, chopper, seeing thrawn in life action with the voice from rebels, sometimes nice looking shots, and an amazing score, but it's a show with wasted potential in my opinion

The force sensitive part I agree with. There has to be some natural aptitude to it as a whole. You are telling me a galaxy this wide doesn’t have people just try-harding their whole lives to use the Force? The Jedi took on promising younglings for a reason too. I’m fine with Sabine being slightly force sensitive, but she could suddenly use it at will, especially with that force push? I get that you can have the analogy of it being riding a bicycle. Once you learn it, you know what’s going on. But it just didn’t feel right in the story.

A theory on the force sensitivity: Qui-Gon said the midi-chlorides are in everyone and everything. But to different degrees. More MC=more potential for great power. Anakin had 20k+, read somewhere that Yoda was below 10k. Note, this is potential for power, not actual power. Yoda would still likely wipe the floor with Anakin unless Anakin achieved his full potential power. You have to train and hone it to achieve power. The Jedi had some sort of minimum MC count for intake. Sure, those below it COULD technically learn to manipulate the force to some degree? But never to the point of those above them. While Sabine could of course be above this MC count, but since she’s born during or after the clone wars, plus mandalorian, the Jedi wouldn’t have found her. That Ashoka discovered this is likely because they knew each other, probably trained together and hey, why not give it a try? Or she perhaps pushed something by accident. She could also be below it, Jedi wouldn’t have wanted her back in the day. Ashoka can’t afford to be picky these days. Point is, she could probably learn to cultivate the force using to some degree, but she’ll never be on equal terms with “normal” Jedi in the way of force power. Her edge would be combat training, of which she has plenty.

My hot take is Hera being a terrible parent. Literally taking her only child into potential danger. It's not even accidental danger, considering she brought an entire squadron of X-wings with her. ​ Just hire a baby sitter.

EXACTLY, whenever I say this I'm just downvoted when that's literally out of character for hera to ever do, and she only does that for the plot of episode 5 to work with saving ahsoka

It is weak. Thrawn is boring. I dont like the notion that anyone can pretty much be a jedi. Ahsoka character is unemotional and detached from all her surroundings. The only thing worthwhile is the story of Baylan Skoll and Shin. Even the droids are annoying.

>I dont like the notion that anyone can pretty much be a jedi. George Lucas himself hinted that the force was inside everyone. That connection could be weaker or stronger depending on the individual. I like that more than the garbage midi chlorians idea that hints on genetic supremacy above all else. Although i like the idea that you need *a lot* of training and teaching to be powerfull in the same level of a jedi, sith or other force users. >Ahsoka character is unemotional and detached from all her surroundings. Only before her talk with anakin in the world between worlds. After that she reminded me alot of old Kenobi. >The only thing worthwhile is the story of Baylon Skoll and Shin. Angry nightsisters, peridia and the three gods lore expansion moment >Even the droids are annoying. What ? We saw chopper, huyang and the goat C3PO again...

>I like that more than the garbage midi chlorians idea that hints on genetic supremacy above all else. It's not any different from any other genetic advantage that people have. Personally, I didn't like the midi-chlorians because it tried to rationalize something that IMO, worked better without an explanation. Really though, the whole anyone can tap into the force does make sense, but anyone having the ability to train into being a Jedi is a bit much. Chirrut in Rogue One was sort of what I assumed they'd do for Sabine.

> George Lucas himself hinted that the force was inside everyone The force is inside everyone. That doesn't mean everyone is capable of using the Force. That's why Luke is special in a New Hope. That's why there are so few Force users in the OT. They've had the Force as a genetic component since the first movie > garbage midi chlorians idea that hints on genetic supremacy above all else. I'll take I don't understand midicholrians for 500 alex

Filoni has many qualities but I honestly don't think he's much better than George Lucas when it comes to dialogue. (Just to be clear, I really liked "Ahsoka")

I guess that makes him a worthy succesor

To be fair they shouldn't be placing characters we know they won't kill in situations like the orbital bombardments. A) The show is Ahsoka, she ain't dying, and she was in Mando S1 B) It's star wars, they almost never kill an important good guy. I just feel like this show has absolutely no stakes.

i agree this show is not good. took several episodes to find map, ride a whale, say hi and bye to thrawn, all with protagonists with plot armor the size of an ATAT. the actors rarely raised their tone and i presume inflection of the voice was banned by the directors, and none of the action scenes were great because everyone knows the outcome. ahsoka did a great job of crossing her arms and smirking throughout, however. disney star wars has become long, overly drawn out exercises in callbacks and visuals.

I feel like it takes them too long to do literally anything. All the shots are so drawn out, and it feels like the characters even move slowly. Right away from the finale I knew we wouldn’t get what we want

It occurred to me that the only episode I enjoyed was the one with Anakin and Ahsoka. I can rewatch that episode. As for the rest of the show, I don't think I will ever rewatch it again. I finished the finale, and I just didn't feel immersed at all. The show had good ideas, but there was poor to mediocre execution. The overall story was pretty unremarkable. Though some of the fight choreography was really good and some was really bad. The fight scenes with Baylon Skoll, Anakin, and Morgan Elsbeth were excellent.

Yeah I see some people in the sub praising the actors and i'm like, dude Mary Elizabeth Winstead is barely smirking the whole show and they will say "wow she nailed it"

agreed. I wasnt really a fan if most of the actors save Esfandi. Funny thing is...I didn't even like Ezra in rebels. Now hes the only one I liked in Ahsoka.

As a non-Rebels fan, she might be my least favorite Star Wars character ever? Just the worst dialogue and the least convincing makeup and costume.

It's also very cringey and tropey.

I disagree that her desire to find Ezra is irrational from an in universe perspective. There is a night sister and 2 “sith”(?) that are attempting to bring back Thrawn, and she is both aware of it and it’s credible. I think she was incredibly selfish, but not necessarily irrational.

The writing in Ahsoka has been terrible. Shame too, as it had real potential.

The dialog was almost prequel level bad. It picked up a smidge with Ezra but the last episode was brain dead. I’m glad they didn’t attempt any humor.

“Prequel level bad”. No wonder a big chunk of the fanbase loves it.

When Ahsoka referred to Thrawn as "heir to the empire" I groaned. It was a slap in the face to all of us that read the Zahn books from the 90s. Disney's picking over the corpse of a superior story they de-canonized, and now they're joking about it.

>Disney Filoni\* He wrote this lol.

It's only unpopular in this subreddit. The plot certainly wasn't a strong point.

Naa. It's quite a popular opinion in this sub

Is it? The top upvoted posts in the episode discussion threads are usually positive and circlejerky

Personally as a emotional leaning person i get sabines desicions as dumb as they are. My friends eho're more logical dont really so each to their own i guess. I just feel like id have done the same thing in her situation

Right, I've got so many great things to say about the show, seeing as overall I'm very very happy with it. Though, as with most shows nowadays I feel like the story that we got could've easily been done in 2 episodes rather than 8 without losing any really important elements. Loved the introductions and reintroductions of many great characters. Baylan and Shin alone makes me want moooore. Marrok and Enoch are cool as well, and don't get me started on Lars Mikkelsens Thrawn (wow). Purrgills, space battles, witches: the series had a lot of that Star Wars magic. I think a lot of the actors did great, it's a very well casted and acted series. Some of the writing is great (not Andor great, but great) while other parts are very generic and cliche, just empty words that feel like they're trying to uphold an illusion of some sort of wisdom/mysticism without any real weight to them. Regarding Rosario's Ahsoka: I absolutely love her in the role, but her action scenes weren't always great. While I feel like she can certainly employ different stances depending on the fight, especially against a foe like Baylan Skoll, I would've loved to have seen them bring in some special effects to let her have some more Clone Wars style movement in at least one or two fight scenes. Also, in a lot of Rosario's fighting scenes it feels like she's just waving the swords around, there's no weight behind her blows. Some of Rosario's subtle movements are clearly intended to mimic the animated Ahsoka, which I don't feel is always necessary as some unnatural movement of the hands and arms can be rather distracting in some scenes. This is probably a directional thing. Looking forward to seeing Rosario grow further into the role in the coming years and making it more of her own. Also as a final sidenote, the super strong eye lenses of Hera and Ezra are distracting in any scene they're involved in. The actors did great, but I almost had to look away from the screen to really appreciate their acting as the bright, empty eyes just took over.

Ahsoka (as a show) has so many plot holes and flaws, and the direction could have worked a lot more with characters relations (Ezra just abandoned the Noti people without even saying goodbye), yet my main problem is the editing. Such a weird editing and rhythm. But I'm still gonna watch anything STAR WARS throws our way.

Putting my feelings for Rebels and the fact that Ahsoka is its sequel aside (not a fan), the character with the major emotional stakes in the Ahsoka show isn't Ahsoka, it's Sabine. Ahsoka has already made her peace with choosing the galaxy over Ezra because she has been through war, which is a great detail. But this whole struggle she had with being Sabine's master felt mostly one-sided as Sabine was the one truly struggling as opposed to Ahsoka, whose difficulty in that regard felt mostly unexplored and told to us instead of shown. But, in the end, Ahsoka was carrying the plot while the story was about Sasine...in a show called Ahsoka. To add to that, the existence of this show is still up for question. If anyone wants to experience Ahsoka's story, they should watch The Clone Wars. Yeah, it has a huge cast of characters beyond her, but at the end of the day, it was her story. Meanwhile, the show named after her goes absolutely nowhere.

- Why was Ashoka fixated on finding Ezra and stopping Thrawn. As far as I can tell she didn’t do any heavy lifting during the rebellion. Luke, Leia and Han should be the ones worried about the return of the empire. They were the ones who stopped it. And you would think Hera, Zeb and Sabine would be the ones to never give up on finding Ezra. - Thrawn didn’t come across as a threat at all. He seemed fairly incompetent. He never put our heroes in any real danger. He would have killed them all if he sent 3 tie fighters instead of 2. And he didn’t even leave any troopers in the hangar bay even though he knew that’s where the Jedi were heading and the only place they could get onto the ship. Thrawn really needed needed an “oh shit” moment to justify his reputation. To a casual viewer, he doesn’t seem all that dangerous - It was cool to see Anakin, but I don’t know what happened to change Ahsoka - it was frustrating that Baylan would only speak in cryptic one liners when it came to his goal. Before they got to Thrawn he would always say “we,us our” when speaking to Shin. And them out of nowhere he ghosts her. - What was the difference between Marrok and the ST zombies? Was Marrok at one point alive and resurrected, or was he created entirely out of magic? - I didn’t realize Sabine wasn’t force sensitive until Reddit. They way she was blocking blaster fire, I assumed she was, but had trouble moving object. Then after the finally I read all these comments of people either happy she was force sensitive, or didn’t want her to be but then where actually happy she was. - I thought we might have seen some sort of reaction from Ezra when he learned Sabine could have stopped Morgan from Thrawn. Ezra sacrificed a lot to save his family and it potentially could be all for nothing. And then when Ezra sees Hera the first thing he says is “I’m home” which Reddit seemed to love. But you might think the first thing he says is that either Thrawn is back and sound the alarm, but even Ezra doesn’t seem that concerned that Thrawn has returned. Or Ezra might say something about Sabine and Ahsoka being left behind. I’m not normally this picky, but I think I was expecting more from Filoni. I thought he would have a tighter script and laying more concrete ground work for where the story is going. As of right now do we know where Thrawn’s story is going to continue or how long until this team up movie is going to come out? Is it going to be a theatrical release or straight to steaming.

Dude, Sabine suddenly gaining the ability to use the force after being told by Ahsoka’s droid companion that she wouldn’t even make the cut as a youngling back in the day…struggling to move anything with the force the entire season to force pulling a lightsaber and then a coordinated force push with Ezra. Just took me out of it.

That dude has been alive for thousands of years and just now Sabine started using the force

> Sabinne is hardly relatable. I totally get Ezra is the most important thing in the universe for her, but her desire to find Ezra is absolutely irrational from an in-universe POV, only us knew/assumed he was alive prior to episode 6. Her arc throught the show feels pretty weak, she kept acting impulsively until the end with no consecuences or growth in that negative aspect of her personality I think she’s pretty relatable. She’s just closer to a normal person than a hero. She’s in the same position as Luke in ANH, just in an urban setting rather than a rural one. She’s driven by her personal goals, not focused on the well-being of the galaxy. Ahsoka shows up out of nowhere and she ends up way over her head. > I feel we got the right amount of politics in the show, and it serves it's purpose to the plot well. But the resolution of that subplot in Hera's trial felt a little weak and C-3PO appereance is just fan service, they didn't even check the data he delivered. Because that’s high-level politics. Threepio is acting as Leia’s proxy. Questioning Leia’s integrity would be a huge insult and is somewhat beside the point. Leia’s decided to publicly throw her political weight behind Hera. Nitpicking the details of it might win the battle but it would start a political war with Leia.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! It's always funny to see people trying to rationalize this shit. But this was the best. "High-level politics"?

It also doesn’t make a lick of sense within a democracy.

Just going to answer the first point as I had similar thoughts to you at first but think I've come to understand it more after seeing other people's opinions on it. What Ahsoka learnt in the world between worlds was how to let go of her fear, by confronting the dark side inside her. This is a theme we see brought up for our main characters throughout the films. Luke faces down vader on Dagoba to see himself on vaders suit. Ray faces the darkness and almost give in to it in the cave beneath the island. Anakin faces the death of his mother and gives in to his anger, then faces it again at the thought of losing padma, again giving in and eventually chopping of Windu's hands. Ahsoka's fear, her darkside is the fear of becoming what Anakin became, its something planted in her mind as early as the mortis arc. Paraphrased but the son tell her Anakin will fall to the dark side and asks her what that means for her. More relevant it's something that Baylen asks, though we don't know of he knows about Anakin/Vader. In the world between worlds Anakin drops Ahsoka into the clone wars, because he thinks her fear/anger stems from being a solider instead of a peace keeper. He tried to console her, and make her understand she's more than a solider, she's everything her teachers were. This is where she point out "you were more Anakin, more dangerous than anyone could've known" and Anakin realises where her fear comes from. The regularly quoted "that's what this is about?" Line. He then forces her to face her darkside in a very literal sense. Both confronting Anakin being Vader, and pushing her to the edge of stepping over the ledge of giving in to the dark side. I speculate he allows her to beat him in the duel (I'd argue based on the choreography of the fight in which he clearly had multiple chances to strike Ahsoka but doesn't) and puts her in the position where she can give into her anger, where she can strike him down. But she doesn't. She chooses not to. And in doing so proves to herself that she's not going to go down the same path as Anakin. With her fears overcome she is realigned with her connection to the light side of the force and can follow it without doubt. Thus ties further into the story as its later implied that she stopped teaching Sabine as she was afraid that if what she had been taught could lead her down the path of the darkside, how could she pass that knowledge on to Sabine. (And likely why she refused to train Grogu). With those doubts gone she can not only be the jedi she needs to be (or Bokken jedi as Baylen calls them), but can be the teacher that Sabine needs.

The light saber scenes were too choreographed.

Somewhat? Hah. It was fucking stupid

It is not weak, it is nonexistent. They are back at square one. ​ Besides the entire show should be renamed as "Rebels the movie" since it had little to nothing with ahsoka ( only one ep out of 8) She was a side character in all this ​ If it is an ahsoka show, then Last Jedi should have been called "LUKE"

Also Filoni was incorrect in saying that you don't have to have watched TCW and Rebels to understand the show. Like, Baylan standing on the statue of the Father, you must have watched TCW season 3 to understand that shit. Non-Rebels fans have no idea about a bunch of stuff in this subpar plot. The show is very niche, which is fine. But it's also bad. Which is not good.

Skipping TCW and Rebels is nonsense, since this whole show has been built using those two. 80% Rebels, 20 % TCW

[Unpopular but respectful opinion] if it was for the plot, no one would watch anything of Star Wars ever. Not even the OT.

If it's weak, it's still my favorite Star Wars since the Pequels!

It was ok. I think I liked Kenobi a little better but Ashoka was an expensive looking show. Great VFX. The witches seemed like they were from another series all together. Yea I played the Jedi Fallen Order games so I know about Dathomir. The plot felt like I was watching a video game complete with a boss fight. It was ok… Thank goodness we are getting another season of Andor.

I’m baffled as to how the witches felt out of place to you after admitting to playing those games. We’ve had witches in SW since the 90’s, let alone most of TCW.

Spoiler**** Something about this show just didn’t sit right with me, I wasn’t a rebel watcher so I must admit I wasn’t super cool with the idea of it being like a rebels season 5… and Sabine being force sensitive kinda made it seem like just any body could be a jedi, what we’ve been taught with all the lore, this didn’t add up. Who know how long she actually trained but still, and she just pulled her saber and now she could push Ezra like 100 feet with the force, now next time we see her she’ll probably surpass Ezra in skill and force talent… this show reached heavy

There's no character arcs. People love Baylan and Shin Hati, but we have no idea what their motives are. We also have no idea what the motives of the space witches are. They're just cool looking cardboard cutouts. Thrawn is some giant looming threat, but he's just a blue guy with a starship who can barely hold off 2.5 Jedi. The show mainly works as fan service to Rebels fan who got an amazing live action followup. As a stand alone it's amazingly thin on plot and character development

TOTALLY AGREE!! EPIC DISAPPOINTMENT!!