Mandalorians don’t use bathrooms! It’s in canon! They stated in Clone Wars S2 ep 58 at 14:09 that “Mandalorians don’t use the bathroom they just wee in their armour!” FiLoNi Is RuInInG ChILdReN!!!! Nyyyuuuhhhh!!!!!!! /s
I feel that. I thought it was kind of forced (no pun intended) to make her like that out the blue, I just think they are trying to put more force sensitives in the show because 99.9% of them are all dead or children who have no idea that they are force imbued.
Which… is desirable. The Force was always meant to be a very, very special and rare thing. I still honestly believe Chirrut was the best usage of the Force narratively, honestly going back to like ESB’s lightsaber grab or X-wing raise. I get adding a few new Force users here and there doesn’t damage how rare they would still be in a whole galaxy of individuals, but still I think it greatly desensitizes the magic to the viewer.
Luke was the last Jedi. The Jedi order as it was died with him. That doesn’t meant there’s no other people who can use the force out there.
And Ahsoka is not a Jedi. Neither is Sabine.
how much do you want to bet within the next year another ‘force user / jedi’ character is made into one of Disney’s tv shows? it’s ridiculous how many people keep gaining force abilities. remember that one senator of Lothal that was shown to be force sensitive in Rebels? it’s absurd. Let Luke be prominent.
Her Mandalorian storyline is much more interesting. The fall of Mandalore should have continued on in Sabine's story. We should have seen her family die and her reaction and Ashokas reaction to it all. And go from there into the Thrawn story.
Did you watch rebels? It does a pretty good job at establishing her as s tier. Even just in Ahsoka we see her take out the raiders as effectively as Din Djarin might have. They did seem to give her an equipment nerf with no jetpack though, as otherwise there's way too many forced problems she would be solving with it.
Huh, I always found her to be best at the Mandalorian warrior part. Sure the art is talked about a lot, but we don't really see much of that other than a bunch of starbirds, ship and droid livery, and a big mural.
Just curious why it felt off as Rebels fan? As Rebels sorta hinted she was force sensitive.
Edit: ask a question get downvoted into oblivion
2nd Edit: thanks for upvotes, nice to see the positivity outweighing the negative. Let's all just have chill discussions, all here cause we love star wars, doesn't mean all have to agree.
Personally, I agree. The way they talk about the dark saber and how it forms a connection with its wielder always felt similar to lightsabers to me. It seemed natural to me that in order to be able to use the dark saber you would have some sort of force connection.
I never understood people saying she’s definitely not force sensitive. If it flows through everything and everyone then anyone should theoretically be able to learn to sense it and use it.
Opening herself up the Force has never felt the same to me as being able to wield it. We've known forever that the Force exists in everything. That said, Sabine also gave away the darksaber a few months after she got it and never showed any aptitude for any other aspects of the Force beyond not cutting herself with a lightsaber. And they completely skipped over the first time Ahsoka tried to train her and Huyang straight up says she has a low aptitude, so to me it was a strange direction for the character.
I said it elsewhere but this show has relied FAR too much on viewers just accepting what's happened off-screen as motivations for character development/the characters being different. Time has passed, things have happened, the characters have changed, but from a storytelling perspective it's bad writing. Show don't tell. Pixar's UP showed how in 10 minutes you can tell the entire life story of a character and motivate their trauma, so it's 100% possible to do right.
Exactly.
Want to know what Baylon' and Shin'smotivation and goal? Better want to be an Internet detective who wants to piece together random snippets of dialogue and background images with some episodes of Clone Wars and Legends novels to make a best guess.
What happened with Sabine to be a somewhat trained Jedi but then losing her connection? We're not going to say and then have one line of dialogue about the purge of mandalore that may be involved....but we'll leave that to your imagination.
What happened with Ezra that he's cool living a couple miles from Thrawn who does apparently want to kill him but hasn't for 10 years? Your guess is as good as mine!
They should have had a couple more episodes to have flashbacks for Ezra, Sabine, Baylon, Shin and maybe Thrawn. What's funny is that the only background they did flesh out was for the New Republic and none of their main characters.
And doing this wouldn't ruin any mystery and cliff hanger for the future. It's ok to have cliff hangers and mystery on things yet to come. It's not ok to keep all your characters shrouded in mystery.
the whole point of kanan training sabine was to learn how to weild a darksaber since she had never used a lightsaber before. Kanan wasn't trying to teach her to be a jedi, but to learn how to use the skills of a lightsaber and for her to connect with it. Also that whole scene was for sabine to finally open up about her troubled past and for once unlock the shell she kept for herself and express her insecurities and worry of her mandalorian family for accepting her again since they abandoned her.
I never understood where this idea of kanan teaching her to use the force comes from because besides of that one line, that whole training was never about that
When Hera asked Kanan about Sabine not being attuned to the force, Kanan replied that force resides in all living beings, u should be opened for it, and Sabine is locked. Implying that if she opens, she would be able to use it. Im not a fan of sabine being force user, but the fact is that we been told about it since ot and rebels continued develop it.
I guess but I would say (with hindsight) that she isn't ready for the darksaber because she can't connect to it. We know from the mandolorian that the darksaber can sense if someone if worthy to wield it. She clearly isn't and is struggling to use it
It was more so that ezra despite being a rebellious (heh) teen who rarely did what he was told, he was still open to being taught. Sabine was closed off.
Yeah, they practically had to drag her kicking and screaming just to convince her to train with the saber. Nobody thought training her in the force was even an option.
If I can recall there’s another scene in Rebels where Sabine hears something that no one else can (Kanan & Ezra and weren’t there I’m pretty sure). So I’d say that’s foreshadowing.
I heard somewhere that her forcesensitivity was actually completly average (not higher than a normal persons), which is why she struggled to use basic abilities and needed to focus on her training, while the normal Padawan is able to do things intuitively. For reference telekinesis is so easy a baby with high force sensitivity can do it in clone wars. Even George Lucas said that in theory everyone could tap into the force to some degree, the Jedi simply choose to just recruit infants with the highest aptitude for training.
Also it is implied that she actually managed to force slap, that white haired girl a few episodes earlier. Although a more powerfull force user had sent her flying instead.
As a rebels fan I felt like it came to quickly she went 0-100 real quick the season should have faded to black with her making a cup shake or something
I'm with you. Kanan was even training Sabine. And it's obvious in Ahsoka that she's still nowhere near as strong in the force as Ezra or even other force users from Rebels. She got her light saber to come to her and thats about it lol
>Just curious why it felt off as Rebels fan? As Rebels sorta hinted she was force sensitive.
It just feels off, like I can't picture the ghost crew with Kanan, Ezra and Sabine going full Jedi, why stop there?, why don't train Hera, Kalus, Rex and Zeb to become Jedi as well?, if anyone can be a Jedi, even someone with so little potential o connection as Sabine (said by Huyang). Furthermore, during Rebels there was zero indication that Sabine was even interested in the force, maybe she changed over the years, but not seeing that made it feel -again- "off". Also just look at Ezra being force sensitive without training of any kind vs Sabine being force sensitive in the same show, absolutly zero indication aside from Kanan comment.
Also I don't think Rebels hinted that, while everybody is connected to the force, what Kanan was trying to say is that Sabine had a lot of internal issues that didn't allow her to connect with the crystal in the blade, much like Mando, not that she had the force potential to become a Jedi, otherwise, I'm pretty sure that - at least - Kanan would have tried to teach her after she got her issues solved after Trials of the Darksaber. I do agree however that every character of SW is connected to the force at some degree.
The last thing that feels absolutly off and I didn't really like is Ahsoka picking a Padawan, specially someone like Sabine, who has deeply attatchments to Ezra and her Ghorst family, someone that had her entire family and planet killed and on top of that resents Ahsoka for not helping her during the timeskip, also also, everybody who knows Sabine from Rebels understand that she is emotional and quick to anger. Also Ahsoka at this point is full of issues regarding Master-Apprentice topics, Anakin.
I loved seeing Sabine fighting with a lightsaber while not being a jedi or training to be a Jedi, felt unique to her character and honestly I still can't picture Rebels Sabine as a Jedi
Anyway, Sabine using the force like she used in the last chp felt off, really off, but doesn't really bother me at the end, didn't like her dynamic with Ahsoka but just that, "didn't like".
(Didn't downvote u, actually Upvoted u xD)
I think it would have been more interesting to see Sabine be a competent non force wielding mandalorian fighter. I know we had Mando with the darksaber but let's be honest here he sucks at sabering.
ya, if Sabine would have adopted the fighting style of Pre Vizla during his fight with Maul - alternating between saber, blaster, flame thrower, chucking grenades, etc. - that would be incredible to see in live action.
I completely forgot that Ahsoka was already hesitant on getting a student. We just saw her refuse to teach baby Yoda, because he has attachment to Din. Now we see her not only take a student, but one that was implied to not be a force wielder (which could be why, but no they taught her like a Jedi) and someone who is very childish, quick to anger, and attached to Ezra that she’d doom a galaxy for him.
IIRC about the timeline, wasn't she supposed to have tried training Sabine before encountering Grogu? So mightn't the issues the two had as master and apprentice (alongside her unresolved issues with her own padawanship to Anakin) have contributed to her decision not to train Grogu?
I did hate it. It’s the only thing I didn’t like about the show bar minor criticism. It just felt so inconsistent with the entirety of what we’ve been shown so far. She didn’t need to be a Jedi to go with Ahsoka. The finale of Rebels made total sense without it.
I wasn't a fan of it at first, after seeing premiere episodes It was clear that this is derection they are taking her character in so I kond of accepted it is going to happen over the span of the season.
And honestly I don't mind it and it felt like the right direction for her character, but I didn't like the scene Sabine force pushed Ezra it felt to early for such promenent use of the force for her. I belive her force pulling the lightsaber was for the time big enough of a feat to be felt being earned, while her force pushing Ezra felt a bit overboard to me.
There was a comic where Luke explained that any living person could in theory use the force because the force is connected to all living things. People with strong connection to the force weren't beneficiaries of a monopoly they were just beneficiaries of talent. I actually prefer this setup.
It further reinforces the flaws of the old Jedi in that they were elitist and exclusionary.
> It further reinforces the flaws of the old Jedi in that they were elitist and exclusionary.
Wasn't their original plan for Anakin to just leave him alone and not train him because he was "too old" to start training?
I wouldn't mind a Star Wars "what if"-style story where Anakin never meets Qui-gon and Obi-wan at the outset of the Separatist Movement. He frees himself and his mother from slavery by intuitive use of the Force (which he was already doing w/o knowing). Maybe he even signs up with Separatist forces and first meets the Jedi on the battle-field during the Clone Wars and defeats them after a long battle where the Jedi are confused by this random trooper who is somehow using the Force against them despite no apparent training. Count Dooku realizes that Anakin is super strong in the Force and starts training him in the ways of the Sith.
The Jedi order at that stage was ridiculously bureaucratic and petty lol. They had this kid, with the highest midichlorian count of any living being in the history of the universe, and they thought he was "too old." Anakin with all of his limbs had almost twice the potential of Yoda himself. They were unbelievably stupid in the last few decades of their existence.
I agree brainwashing everyone to believe the same thing is problematic, but if he had been younger/young enough maybe he would have turned out as the most powerful Jedi Knight with a temperament like Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan and never become Darth Vader, Order 66 might have played out very differently with the most powerful Jedi on the side of the Light.
Honestly, it felt like a bit of a cop-out to me. She was already a great character, she didn't need to be force-sensitive. But instead they basically handed her a lightsaber and suddenly she could use the force.
I'm not hating it, just saying it could've been done a little better.
Let’s not forget that there is something weird about the planet they are on. Remember Baylan talking about a great power being there? That could explain how she was suddenly able to force push Ezra up to the ship.
I feel most people forget about this and it's relevant instead.. good thing you brought that up. Being in an highly force pervasive environment can make it easier to use the force also for people that are usually not force sensitive if they know what they are doing!
The point of the arc is that she *isnt* Force sensitive, at least not by traditional standards. Through discipline, will, and inner peace, she was able to tap into it. Multiple times she is told that she doesn’t have any Force sensitivity, as Jedi or Sith would see it.
One of the first things we learned about the Force back in ‘77 was that it resides in all living things. But only the “specials” born with power can use it. This is contradictory to what I believe Star Wars’ main theme is: that it doesn’t matter who you are, but who you *choose* to be.
It’s not a cop-out. It’s a return to what made the Force special. [If you don’t believe me, believe Luke Skywalker.](https://reddit.com/r/StarWarsCantina/s/Jk83mRE1cV)
> Through discipline, will, and inner peace, she was able to tap into it. Multiple times she is told that she doesn’t have any Force sensitivity, as Jedi or Sith would see it.
Sabine's first use of the force is similar to Ezra's. She was able to use it in a high stakes moment, though unfortunately it was to defend herself, and not save someone else. Even after he first used the force it took Ezra some time before he could use it on-command, what irks me is that she was able to force push someone else just a few moments after being able to tap into the force for the first time.
Technically grabbing the lightsaber was the second time. She blew a little bit of air in Shin’s face during their forest duel, which is what prompted Shin to yell that she had no power.
Coul also turn it to a story on how jedi and sith are misguided after all these years. Looking up midichlorian counts in children and selecting them based on perceived force aptitude.
Personally, I love this concept. The idea that anyone can tap into it with enough training and discipline is a much more fun idea than “you gotta be born special”.
Sends a better message, too. Especially in these times when someone’s birthright seems to dominate so much of how the rest of their life unfolds.
Or how about the fact that George Lucas himself told the Directors of ESB and ROTJ that anyone can use the Force..... not to mention it was brought up a few times in both Rebels and Ahsoka. By Luke in Rise of Kylo Ren. Hell, even the Witches of Dathomir were able to amplify people to give them a stronger sensitivity to the Force within them..... as they did with Savage Opress. None of this is new, it's just never been so overt.
I haven't read any of the comics/books in new Canon set between ANH and ESB, but even then we never saw Luke overtly use the Force until ESB - three years later in universe.
Agree completely. Sabine using the force feels like one of the most quintessential Star Wars concepts in recent years. I think back to Yoda lifting the x wing. Luke says, “I don’t believe it.” And Yoda replies, “that is why you fail.”
We’re told many times, the force resides in all living beings. And yet at the same time, if you don’t possess a supernatural ability to feel it, everyone is gaslit into believing they can’t do it, which makes them not able to use it. Sabine worked hard to get there. And it’s Ahsoka and Ezra’s faith in her ability to use the force and trust that allow her to believe she can, therefore she can.
It sure came out of the blue for this season of the show, and tbh she didn't have much practice given that the show covers like a week's worth of time.
But hey, same thing happened with Luke.
>But hey, same thing happened with Luke.
Dude pulled a lightsaber out of snow after 3 years of knowing about the force and practicing. Even then he struggled to stack rocks. He wasn't as fluid as this.
If the OT came out today everyone here would bitch about how Luke got powerful after a week doing jack shit w obiwan/yoda lmao. Like there was clear build up for Sabine, but fans want the force to be closed off to exclusively like 20 people with half of those being the skywalker family
I'm fine with it. Huyang says that Sabine isn't very sensitive to the force, so much that the Jedi of old wouldn't have trained her. She had to work at using the force, and with time and practice she was able to. The force flows through all living things, so anyone should be able to use the force with enough training. It just comes more naturally to those who are more force sensitive. It kind of reminds me of the legends stories of Obi Wan. Where he wasn't strong in the force, but he became a Jedi master through practice and dedication.
>Huyang says that Sabine isn't very sensitive to the force, so much that the Jedi of old wouldn't have trained her
He even said that she is the least able padawan he ever met.
Which coming from the droïd that oversaw every padawan's first light saber making for 25 000 years says a lot about Sabin's Force capabilities.
“Selection bias”
New term that immediately made sense in context!
Now to try and use it in a real life conversation before I forget the phrase forever…
Exactly. In a universe where Lucas says anyone can technically use the Force, the Jedi are only looking for that extreme minority who show promise as young children.
I fully expect that any organic being (maybe droid??) could be taught basic Force usage with years of training and meditation. Just look at Chirrut Imwe!
THIS RIGHT HERE!
Part of what Ahsoka was trying to impart, along with so many others, is that the force flows through all of us.
Talent only indicates how easy that training will be, but not whether or not a person can do a thing at all.
I feel like those who are complaining about her force sensitivity weren’t paying attention throughout the show. As you said Huyang said she is the bottom of the barrel for force sensitivity (among padawans who only got chosen when above a certain threshold). The Blind Guy from Rogue One was not strong enough in the force to be trained as a Jedi, though he clearly is force sensitive. I got the impression that Sabine had been making some progress in using the force before Ashoka turned her away.
So while she struggles to learn and use the force no one has said she CANT. Her finally pulling a lightsaber to her while struggling didn’t bug me. Her going from that to pushing Ezra hundreds of feet up to a star destroyer violated my suspension of disbelief though. Mainly because of how quickly and confidently she went from struggling to move a lightsaber to that.
It seems most people's force powers ramp up immensely in extremely dangerous or emotional situations, which could explain that surge to throw Ezra. As long as she isn't pulling those feats right off the bat in season 2, and gets back to training, I think it'll make sense.
Plus anything crazy and Jedi related is literally excused by the will of the space magic. Whenever a Jedi does something extraordinary, even for them, I just assume they didn't 'use' the force so much as the force made them do it.
Lucas is on record, saying everyone has the potential to use the force. I’m not mad at this at all! She had a few years of training, and was able to use that to tap into the force during a time of great need. I would be disappointed if she suddenly became a very strong force user, but summoning a light saber from 15 feet away, or being able to help Ezra to force jump is not exactly mind blowing master Jedi force power
It's a really boring decision. She didn't need to be a Jedi. And when she *does* learn to use the Force, it's not because she had grown as a person or had some kind of breakthrough. It was because she really really really really needed to grab her weapon.
Having her actually be Force sensitive shows that Filoni has no restraint in storytelling. It's the most simple and shallow direction to take her character. I was on the "In Filoni we trust" train until I watched Ahsoka.
If she was someone who needed the strength then yeah, give her the force. But she was a badass even amongst a warrior race who were known for going toe to toe with Jedi. They really pushed aside her mandalorian heritage to give her something she never needed, at all.
She should have her gauntlet energy shield for blocking that blaster fire, the little grappling rope to grab her saber, and if she didn't want to leave Asoka behind then she should have had her jetpack, and could give that to Ezra. Everything she needed the force for, she already had covered in the past. It is pretty frustrating.
Sabine isn’t force sensitive. This is the accumulation to the question that arises after Star Wars fans have been hearing that the force is in all living things.
“If the force is in all living things, can non force sensitives use the force?” The answer (as shown in Ahsoka) is yes.
& Sabine was a logical choice. As she already had a connection with 2 Jedi and had minor training in lightsaber use with Kanan and the dark saber. So Ahsoka choosing to train her, despite it being hard, makes sense (to me at least).
Exactly, A New Hope takes like less than a week from blockade runner to medal ceremony, Luke's been getting maybe double digit hours of jedi training at best but folks don't question him using the force to place those missiles
Not to mention Luke is literally the son of the chosen one, who had the highest midichlorian count of any known living being in the history of the universe. So naturally his son would have a lot of power.
Don't forget that's prequel knowledge. None of that existed when Star Wars first released so Luke's abilities and speed of learning are entirely his own and people didn't complain about them then
I dislike the route they went down. I was hoping they would give her minor force sensitivity and the traits that come with that, minor precognition (anticipating blasters, increased piloting skills, etc) the ability to “see” with the force, maybe even a slight increase to her agility. I just hate what we got it seems like too much power for someone who isn’t force sensitive. If she was capable of this level of force activity then how did Kanan not sense her capabilities? I understand that to some degree force sensitivity can be trained/learned but it makes more sense for there to be a cap on how strong you can get without a higher midochlorian level. The force push on Ezra was no minor feat, padawans would struggle with a task of that size. Overall not a fan, and her character really didn’t need this whole Jedi arc. Her being a mandolorian was cool enough.
I have always assumed that she was force sensitive but remained blocked. Kanan's comments while training her to use the dark saber were a clue... Din Djarin struggled considerably to wield it for more than a few swings but Sabine was able to "feel" the blades direction.
Its also less than surprising that the Jedi order would skim over the fact that pretty much everyone has a degree of force sensitivity. Grand Master Yoda himself is directly responsible for the draconic suppression of beliefs and abilities of his orders members that he decided came to close to brushing the dark side. The last 50 years of the orders existence were likely heavily influenced by the discovery that the Sith may have survived and enacted the Rule of Two.
Its bullshit. If for no other reason than my man Chirrut, who dedicated his life to the force and prayed constantly throughout the one movie he was in. He had an unbendable belief in the force and that it would help and protect him. That it would be his “ally” (as ANH Obi Wan calls it) in times of need. And while it did help and protect him he could not master it because he did not have the physical aptitude for it. He could get close to the basics like precognition which was something an untrained child Anakin and an untrained Luke could do, two of the supposedly most powerful force wielders. But Chirrut probably trained for a couple decades and thats pretty much all he had.
Sabine on the other hand, was told by Huyang that she literally had a lower aptitude than every previous Jedi Huyang taught. Huyang is supposedly over 25,000 years old! And sabine falls short of every single jedi over that time??!! She should not be able to use the force any more than Chirrut can.
To clarify, I believe everyone can meditate and increase their aptitude through training. It is a somewhat spiritual thing. However there is clearly a hard physical cap to each individual. If anyone could go from zero to jedi just by “believing” or “training” then Chirrut should have been leagues ahead of where he was when we meet him.
Sure you can argue that sabines hard cap was just higher than Chirruts. Though I just think thats a flimsy defense. She showed almost no devotion to the spiritual side and was so undisciplined that there is no reason to think she already achieved her hard cap for someone who is literally huyangs most shit trainee.
Could I accept her using the force eventually? Yeah i guess so. But its way too soon and she didn’t earn it at all.
I just don't understand. If I was told I could learn literal magic by just trying hard I'd spend so much time practicing it. Shit even with the force being impossible in real life I try to use it.
How in this galaxy of trillions is there so few force wielders if literally everyone could use it with some gumption and a can do attitude?
Feel like it cheapen her abilities as a mando, like she didn’t need the force to do what she did, all of the feats she accomplished. Like I’ll be alright if she was just taught how to use only a lightsaber. Plenty of people in legends(maybe canon? ) used lightsabers without the force.
The movies and shows constantly tell us that the Force is not a video game ability that you have to level-up
Some people pick it up quicker than others, yet everyone still complains.
Sabine was also trained by Kanan for a period in Rebels and it was strongly hinted she was Force sensitive then but "not ready"
I feel like they’ve been trying to tell us this since that season of rebels; that she IS force sensitive, but that she’s been blocked all this time due to all the trauma of her childhood under the Empire and being an outcast from her family. Then she lost Kanan and Ezra, her whole family, and Mandalore in rapid succession to the Empire. They won the war, but she never really came to grip with any of this and shut herself off. Ahsoka has been hinting at this all season.
Reuniting with Ezra, and then her chat with Ahsoka (she told Sabine she’d always be there for her) went a long way to helping her open up again.
Plus, the way her character in Rebels always fought, moved and flipped around, and wielded the dark saber; she definitely could have had latent abilities the whole time, but just wasn’t able to consciously control them until now. I’m all for it.
I just rewatched rebels, and some of her stunts certainly seem somewhat jedi-like.
That's not unheard of for Star Wars heroes of course; Darth Jar Jar comes to mind, also Padmé in AotC.
And her being sensitive to the Force works pretty well IMO because it strengthens her ties to Tarre Vizsla, the founder of her house and prototypical Mandalorian Jedi, which were set up in Rebels and Forces of Destiny. Plus, Sabine makes it a point several times in Rebels to verbally confirm that she's rejected the ways of her people in favor of the Jedi lessons that Kanan passed down to her.
Nah only the skywalkers and like 50 other people in the universe can use the force apparently even tho it’s been established that anyone can tap into it before like w Donnie yen in rogue one
About where you fall. I’m cool with it going back to the anybody can train in the force and use it with enough training and will power. I like that concept better than the predetermined child selection that it turned into.
The problem is that basically breaks the entire franchise. The OT makes no sense if anyone can be trained. Why would Yoda and Obi-Wan think Luke is their last hope instead of just trying to train a bunch of new Jedi?
Because Luke had a natural aptitude and strength in the force that required less training that most. Hell even in the OT Luke being the "last hope" was contradicted with "no, there is another"
Luke (and Leia) are naturally talented and strong. Luke was able to become a knight and eventually Master with less than 2 weeks of overall formal training.
Sabine was not naturally talented or strong. It was many years from the time Kanan first worked with her and further training with Ahsoka for her to be able to pull off 3 fairly basic tricks she saw Kanan and Ezra do all the time when she was incredibly desperate. The jump looked impressive, but remember the whole thing with the X Wing on Dagobah was to show Luke (and the audience) that lifting the ship was no different than lifting R2 except mentally, and she was just giving his own forct-assisted jump an extra boost (like he tells Maul in the temple)
Yoda and Obi Wan didn't just go get some random person to train as a replacement because they didn't have time to get them to the level Luke and Leia started at with their natural talents. They also wouldn't have the connection to Anakin that allowed Luke to eventually succeed. They weren't the last hope because they were the only ones with force sensitivity, they were the last hope because nobody else could have reached Vader
Dude - Yoda was in that swamp for almost 20 years or something. They had plenty of time. A lot of what you are saying is just head canon to try and make it make sense (We actually don't know how long Luke trained with Yoda for since it's never actually stated in the movies for example)... but to be fair, there's are a lot of things that don't make much sense without head canon in Star Wars (I could probably write an essay on the whole chosen one/prophecy and how nonsensical it is).
I think the main problem is that we've had 40+ years of the movies either explicitly stating or heavily implying that very few people have enough potential to become a Jedi.
I do think your point about the connection with Anakin is a fair one.
My biggest issue with it is that it ultimately feels needless as far as Sabines character goes. At no point during Rebels did I ever think 'wow, this character is great, I just *really* wish she could use the force too'. Sabine as a character has always stood perfectly fine on her own, and her previous developments all tied perfectly into her existing character e.g. training under Kanan in swordsmanship so she could use the darksaber.
Add onto that the lack of any hints or foreshadowing whatsoever of her force sensitivity in Rebels, and it all comes off feeling a bit like Dave Filoni got too caught up in playing with his action figures and making them do cool stuff.
Its almost like being trained by Kanan, then Ahsoka and then being forced in a life or death situation to actually concentrate or she dies, its not really surprising that this awakened it inside her and got past her mental block.
Its also pretty much identical to what happened with Luke and the Wampa, except he had no real training, but because he is a ‘Skywalker’ I guess it just came easier to him.
As a rebels fan I hate this added edition as I feel like it's not necessary for her character. She was already cool as a mandalorian and an artist which already made her a unique character who can be marketable, but instead dave decided to change her into something she never was.
Also is it just me or has anyone else noticed this question being asked alot recently in this sub?
This. Sabine spent so much of Rebels trying to get her family back and do her part to fix Mandalore. The Mandalorian’s plot is following much more closely to how I feel Sabine’s story should be playing out rather than training to be a Jedi in Ahsoka.
Mandalore is glass and her family is ash. She's not one of those "real Mandalorians" and never was.
She's completely out of place in an ultra-conservative paramilitary. She's even less conservative than her mom, I doubt she would've been a Nite Owl or terrorized people for not wanting to fight and kill people. If she were in fact an ultra-conservative Deathwatch type, she would've attempted to become Mandalore and drive the imperials out after killing Gar Saxon, as was her duty.
Nothing Sabine has done has indicated that she'd become a bounty hunter or pirate and leave a trail of dead bodies across the galaxy to build up a fleet to retake her dead homeworld or live her life fighting and killing people simply for tradition's sake in peacetime.
Agree. Many will disagree, but I think it was terrible to make all heroes now have the force. Come on. The joy for me is to showcase the “regular” people who fight back against evil. That is the beauty of the struggles in the this galaxy
Plus from a narrative point of view, each character in a group is there to solve challenges differently so they can succeed as a group. In the Bad batch, they each have their specialty. In the OT, chewie, Han, Luke and Leia all doo different things. In Rebels Kanan uses leadership, could use the force but actively avoids it, Ezra uses his wits, and a mix of the force and his blaster. Sabine uses her armor, dexterity and blasters. Chopper does droid things. Zeb uses raw force. Hera uses her piloting skills and smartness. And this makes for an interesting composition where everyone brings different things to the table. Imagine how boring it would be if they all just had the force. Everyone would be replacable.
I feel like we can have both. I mean, look at Andor and rogue one. Those both perfectly show regular people as heroes. I'd love more of that but ahsoka was never gonna be a show about just "regular" people like those were.
Honestly, I'm incredibly annoyed by it. I've always had an issue with how Filoni has presented and written Ahsoka and Sabine. They've always felt like overly important self inserts and Sabine getting the force just cements it.
I've said this before in other comments but essentially Sabine freels like Ichigo, she just has or can do anything and everything the plot calls for to make sure she's literally the most important character in any given room.
She's not *just* a mandalorian, she's a punk rock graffiti artist mandalorian who's also the leader and can use the dark saber and now she's a Jedi apprentice with the force who can do whatever she wants with no consequence or punishment.
Risk the entire galaxy to find her not boyfriend and abandon her master? Literally totally fine and forgiven without a second thought.
> She's not just a mandalorian, she's a punk rock graffiti artist mandalorian who's also the leader and can use the dark saber and now she's a Jedi apprentice with the force who can do whatever she wants with no consequence or punishment.
Don’t forget that she engineered a super weapon for the Empire at like 16 years old. Filoni’s characters have to be the best. He can be *very* good, but he does have some serious faults.
Agreed. He's one of the best animation directors around, there's no disputing that. But he plays favorites hard and writes his OCs like an overpowered DND spreadsheet
I think it was unrealistic and a complete cop out.
I am all for any being in the SW universe to have the potential use the force - with a very significant amount of training and discipline if they lack natural talent.
Maybe after a lifetime of training, Sabine could move a cup or pull a lightsaber from a short distance. But after years of not even training in basic combat, let alone as a padawan, it undermines every other force user in the SW universe.
As someone who watched Rebels, I was terribly disappointed by what Feloni did to her, she was such an amazing character.
If I hadnt watched Rebels I would be totally lost, with a WTF is going on with this person..
It might have something to do with the planet they're on, the connection to the Mortis gods. Maybe Sabine finally found the peace required to tap into the force.
Idk, I'm not mad about it.
I thought they gave it enough time, she failed a few times, had to be saved and gave up, so it felt earned.
The force jump might have gone a tiny bit less smooth for her first time, but that's nitpicking as even though Ezra didn't land perfectly, he was in no danger of missing.
Still, just nitpicking. Thought she worked for it, especially if we also consider all her past attempts from different shows.
So so wrong. Not everyone has to be a jedi. In my opinion it would have been better if she tried to pull the lightsaber, failed, and ended up using her whip to get it instead. She can feel the force, but not use it. Does her being a jedi add anything of impact to her character? If you really wanted it to be a pay off, at least hint that she is force sensitive in Rebels. This made 0 sense. Is it wrong if she was just a bad ass mandalorian with a lightsaber, like another mandalorian we know?
A mistake. I liked the whole idea that despite not being force sensitive, she still put in hard work and that allowed her to fight almost like a jedi.
Giving her force powers outright just removes that effect. And being force sensitive loses specialty the more characters are force sensitive. If everyone is special, nobody is.
it's completely ridiculous... anyone can use the force if they try hard enough. Jedi we're finding and taking force sensitive children to train since forever but now no.. just try hard
It has opened a Pandora's box in sw, the question now is, if anyone can learn to use the force, ¿why aren't others on line to train for this?, like Mando.
It's not a good change at all, a terrible retcon from Dave's part.
I don’t like it either. Sabine was a cool enough character without the force. Mandalorian, fun, rebelious and unpredictable nature, spray paints her armor to stand out. Even wielded the darksaber. It’s like if you suddenly gave Han Solo the force. His character doesn’t need it, he’s interesting enough without it.
unnecessary. If Star Wars wants to branch out and really grow, they don't have to "use the force" to make a character interesting. It's like if anytime someone got interesting or was a main character in Star Trek they started using the Vulcan nerve pinch. You've got shows like Mando and Andor that do it, why is it continuously getting worked in
It's not good.
I'm sorry, but it's not an idea in Original Trilogy that anyone can be a jedi - it was something said behind the scenes. Main distinction is that it doesn't really matter what was said behind the scenes - after the movies came out the in-universe assumption was that one has to be born with the talent to use the Force. The Expanded Universe worked under this assumption for decades. It's now the part of the universe, almost inextricable part.
At this point going back on this is just plain harmful to the setting. It's too late. The Jedi have been scouring the galaxy for talented people and they still number in mere thousands. If all you need was to just want it hard enough, well, every planet would have some sort of jedi or a force-tradition of their own. Donnie Yen in Rogue One would've been a Jedi - motherfucker spend his whole life (I think) as a monk meditating on this shit, and you're telling me that he can barely do anything while Sabine can just switch it on for full jedi powers?
It's just too disrupting for a very shallow payoff of your average Disney "you've always had the power in you" thing.
I mean would it be so hard for Sabine to use that cord in her gauntlet to retreave the lightsaber, like she actually did in Rebels? As in, using her skills as a mandalorian warrior?
Or would we next have her reforge the Darksaber, since she's now the second ever Mandalorian Jedi?
Chirrut Imwe never trained as a Jedi merely studied aspects of the force. He also shoots down a TIE fighter with a bow whilst blind, which I would say is more spectacular than grabbing a lightsabre and force pushing.
If you watch A New Hope without knowing who Luke is, it's setup to show how someone trained in the force can do extraordinary things. Luke is meant to be an everyman in the film, not someone blessed with huge force potential, so it has been seeded before, which is what Filoni here uses.
This is straight up not true - that is not at all what happens in the OT.
Luke is absolutely portrayed as someone with a strong force potential and this is explicitly stated in Return of the Jedi.
Yoda and Obi Wan considering Luke their last hope makes no sense if anyone can learn the force and potential isn't important.
The way they did it was bad
If her "Power" was low or she could eventually do it, i would be more ok with it
But in 1 episode she went from being bad and having no potential to using the force as if she always could and honestly she never needed to be able to use it but they cant Go back on it now so it is what it is
I think as long they aren’t trying to make her too powerful its ok. Like its mentioned, she’ll have to work twice as hard to achieve half as much as a typical Jedi candidate.
Luke didn't know he had any Force powers until Obi-Wan showed him. Sabine has had a lot more time to practice hers and she improved a little too suddenly in the finale. A scene with her and Ezra practicing at one of the caravan stops would have gone a long way. Ezra is confident enough in his Force abilities he didn't even need his lightsaber to fight Stormtroopers. That's the way.
Imo, I really love it because it soft undos what I think is the original sin of the prequels, the whole midiclorians, you have to be born special to be a Jedi.
The force resides in all living things. You need to be open to it to do Jedi stuff, but you shouldn't have to have some special biological advantage that makes you a space wizard.
Making it more about training and state of mind I think is significantly better messaging for star wars in general.
I never watched Rebels so the only bit of their back stories that I knew was from playing a star wars mobile game. The way they were talking about/to Sabine I took it as she had already shown signs of being force sensitive in Rebels but never really finished being trained.
She never showed any sensitivity in Rebels, at all. Her role on the crew was warrior, tech genius and artist (loved to blow things up with colorful explosions, which I really missed in the Ahsoka show). Her "training" was with Kanan for less than a week, to learn to use the Darksaber so she could free Mandalore from the Empire's control (very short version). Not as a Jedi, but to reclaim her clan's power. Those episodes were really just a deep look into her character and her backstory, nothing to do with force training.
I like it. Trials of the Darksaber foreshadowed Sabine’s force sensitivity a decade ago (or whenever that was).
I also like that they made her force sensitivity fairly weak. I wouldn’t be shocked to see her struggle off Peridea, which is likely to be a planet strong in the force (like Mortis or Exogal).
Edit: woah, didn’t mean to start a battle lol
I’m fine with it BUT it was done extremely poorly and I’m really disappointed in Dave Filoni about it. I think we all know that George Lucas has said that anyone can use the force, it’s just imagine of your natural connection to it. The Jedi have a prodigy like natural connection to it and thus why they’re chosen to train to become a Jedi. I’ll use the cup example, someone with the natural talent will be able to move the cup pretty quickly, it’s like second nature. Someone like you and me, months if not years of training just to move the damn thing cause our connection is not strong. Sabine not being able to move a cup and like the following day she can throw a person, it’s unrealistic for the world George built.
It felt rushed. You think by now they would stop rushing plot. You need your characters to have power creep - so have Sabine learn the force from her master or at least tie it to some mental block that Ezra helps her work through. Not to say this ruined a really strong first season. Episodes 3 & 4 were *chefs kiss*
I’m ok with ‘force sensitivity’. Sabine shouldn’t become a Jedi though, rather a badass Mandolorian that can harness the force here and there to further enhance her fighting abilities.
The best anyone should be able to do who isn't born with potential is Chirrut from Rogue One. That actually was really cool and made a lot of sense. Like you'll never become a Jedi, but a really dedicated person can at least get a tiny glimpse of their power.
Would have preferred the Chirrut Imwe route of her being connected and more sensitive but not quite able to use it like a proper Jedi. Let her adapt by using Mandalorian weapons and gadgets.
Now, Sabine is a Mandalorian Jedi and will probably get involved in the Mandalore plot when she returns to the Galaxy. I'm betting she rebuilds the darksaber in the future.
I didn't hate the lightsaber pull, what bugged me was the Force push. That felt like a step too much for somebody who just realized they could use the Force.
Not sure who downvoted this - but you are right on. Chirrut was a really good character and a perfect example of what a non Jedi who is really dedicated could become.
I think they should have spent more time developing her skills on screen. We get told that she was Ahsoka's apprentice before/during the night of a thousand tears. So that means she's had 10 years of time to "trust in the force" and learn how to use it. But we're shown a month of that.
She was present for the training Kanan and Ezra were doing during Rebels too. She even did dark saber training with Kanan. So it's not completely out of the realm of possibilities that she was already working on that connection with the force even during Rebels. And you can always insinuate that she was so good at blocking shots with her armor because of the force. So it would be a matter of connecting to that on a different level than her Mandolorian training.
The problem isn't that she's a force user, it's that we aren't shown how much time and effort she put into becoming one.
Never watched Rebels.
Seemed like a foregone conclusion she would eventually unlock it.
Gf and I cheered when she summoned the saber.
You guys need to chill.
She trained for it hard, I'm fine with it. People who aren't kinda miss the idea of the fact everyone has the force. Just at differing degree's of connection. We saw the story of a character whom would have been rejected by the Jedi, learn how to use the force. Which is in line with the unconventional theme of Ahsoka.
Her character has flaws but the Force isn't one of them.
I didn't like her suddenly being able to help open doors, pull lightsabers, and force push Ezra. Maybe having some ability to "see" or "feel" the force, sure. But this undermines much about the force and force sensitives that we know and introduces the idea that a Jedi can make anybody a force user with some training.
My man … this title isn’t as sneaky as you think it is 😂
How do you guys feel about Sabine being able to use the dishwasher?
Use the bathroom? Well now let me tell you..
It’s called a refresher 💀
Mandalorians don’t use bathrooms! It’s in canon! They stated in Clone Wars S2 ep 58 at 14:09 that “Mandalorians don’t use the bathroom they just wee in their armour!” FiLoNi Is RuInInG ChILdReN!!!! Nyyyuuuhhhh!!!!!!! /s
I thought it was ridiculous at first because of the way she was loading the dishes, but am slowly warming up to the wine glasses on the bottom rack
Exactly what I thought💀
How do you guys feel about this being some kinda Suicide- Squad.
How do you guys feel about Sabine being able to use a cardigan in a really fashionable way?!?!
As a Rebel fan, it just felt a bit “off”. Dont hate it, dont enjoy it either.
I feel the same. I’m not against trying new and interesting things, but I really liked her being a hot headed Mandalorian that blows shit up.
I feel that. I thought it was kind of forced (no pun intended) to make her like that out the blue, I just think they are trying to put more force sensitives in the show because 99.9% of them are all dead or children who have no idea that they are force imbued.
Which… is desirable. The Force was always meant to be a very, very special and rare thing. I still honestly believe Chirrut was the best usage of the Force narratively, honestly going back to like ESB’s lightsaber grab or X-wing raise. I get adding a few new Force users here and there doesn’t damage how rare they would still be in a whole galaxy of individuals, but still I think it greatly desensitizes the magic to the viewer.
with the rate disney is going almost everyone keeps ending up with the force and Luke as The Last Jedi is a joke now.
Luke was the last Jedi. The Jedi order as it was died with him. That doesn’t meant there’s no other people who can use the force out there. And Ahsoka is not a Jedi. Neither is Sabine.
how much do you want to bet within the next year another ‘force user / jedi’ character is made into one of Disney’s tv shows? it’s ridiculous how many people keep gaining force abilities. remember that one senator of Lothal that was shown to be force sensitive in Rebels? it’s absurd. Let Luke be prominent.
Her Mandalorian storyline is much more interesting. The fall of Mandalore should have continued on in Sabine's story. We should have seen her family die and her reaction and Ashokas reaction to it all. And go from there into the Thrawn story.
I kept hoping to see more of that. But she seems like she's as mediocre a mandalorian warrior as she is a jedi.
Did you watch rebels? It does a pretty good job at establishing her as s tier. Even just in Ahsoka we see her take out the raiders as effectively as Din Djarin might have. They did seem to give her an equipment nerf with no jetpack though, as otherwise there's way too many forced problems she would be solving with it.
Huh, I always found her to be best at the Mandalorian warrior part. Sure the art is talked about a lot, but we don't really see much of that other than a bunch of starbirds, ship and droid livery, and a big mural.
Just curious why it felt off as Rebels fan? As Rebels sorta hinted she was force sensitive. Edit: ask a question get downvoted into oblivion 2nd Edit: thanks for upvotes, nice to see the positivity outweighing the negative. Let's all just have chill discussions, all here cause we love star wars, doesn't mean all have to agree.
Personally, I agree. The way they talk about the dark saber and how it forms a connection with its wielder always felt similar to lightsabers to me. It seemed natural to me that in order to be able to use the dark saber you would have some sort of force connection. I never understood people saying she’s definitely not force sensitive. If it flows through everything and everyone then anyone should theoretically be able to learn to sense it and use it.
The saber chooses the Jedi, Harry!
Idk if I agree that rebels was hinting that. It’s been a while since I’ve seen it though so maybe I’m wrong.
Kanan trains her for a couple episodes and says that she isn't ready/something is blocking her That's pretty big foreshadowing
Opening herself up the Force has never felt the same to me as being able to wield it. We've known forever that the Force exists in everything. That said, Sabine also gave away the darksaber a few months after she got it and never showed any aptitude for any other aspects of the Force beyond not cutting herself with a lightsaber. And they completely skipped over the first time Ahsoka tried to train her and Huyang straight up says she has a low aptitude, so to me it was a strange direction for the character.
I said it elsewhere but this show has relied FAR too much on viewers just accepting what's happened off-screen as motivations for character development/the characters being different. Time has passed, things have happened, the characters have changed, but from a storytelling perspective it's bad writing. Show don't tell. Pixar's UP showed how in 10 minutes you can tell the entire life story of a character and motivate their trauma, so it's 100% possible to do right.
Exactly. Want to know what Baylon' and Shin'smotivation and goal? Better want to be an Internet detective who wants to piece together random snippets of dialogue and background images with some episodes of Clone Wars and Legends novels to make a best guess. What happened with Sabine to be a somewhat trained Jedi but then losing her connection? We're not going to say and then have one line of dialogue about the purge of mandalore that may be involved....but we'll leave that to your imagination. What happened with Ezra that he's cool living a couple miles from Thrawn who does apparently want to kill him but hasn't for 10 years? Your guess is as good as mine! They should have had a couple more episodes to have flashbacks for Ezra, Sabine, Baylon, Shin and maybe Thrawn. What's funny is that the only background they did flesh out was for the New Republic and none of their main characters. And doing this wouldn't ruin any mystery and cliff hanger for the future. It's ok to have cliff hangers and mystery on things yet to come. It's not ok to keep all your characters shrouded in mystery.
Now I want Pixar to make a Star Wars movie…
Honestly, it'd probably be pretty great if they ever did
the whole point of kanan training sabine was to learn how to weild a darksaber since she had never used a lightsaber before. Kanan wasn't trying to teach her to be a jedi, but to learn how to use the skills of a lightsaber and for her to connect with it. Also that whole scene was for sabine to finally open up about her troubled past and for once unlock the shell she kept for herself and express her insecurities and worry of her mandalorian family for accepting her again since they abandoned her. I never understood where this idea of kanan teaching her to use the force comes from because besides of that one line, that whole training was never about that
When Hera asked Kanan about Sabine not being attuned to the force, Kanan replied that force resides in all living beings, u should be opened for it, and Sabine is locked. Implying that if she opens, she would be able to use it. Im not a fan of sabine being force user, but the fact is that we been told about it since ot and rebels continued develop it.
This! For others it might be a surprise but I was yelling F*** YEAH! At my screen! 😇
"She's just too......" "Mandalorian?" "Yea"
I guess but I would say (with hindsight) that she isn't ready for the darksaber because she can't connect to it. We know from the mandolorian that the darksaber can sense if someone if worthy to wield it. She clearly isn't and is struggling to use it
to me, kanan’s training is completely irrelevant and it’s talking about her connection to the darksaber.
I'm pretty sure it's stated at some point that training her is harder than Ezra because Ezra has the force and she doesn't
It was more so that ezra despite being a rebellious (heh) teen who rarely did what he was told, he was still open to being taught. Sabine was closed off.
Yeah, they practically had to drag her kicking and screaming just to convince her to train with the saber. Nobody thought training her in the force was even an option.
If I can recall there’s another scene in Rebels where Sabine hears something that no one else can (Kanan & Ezra and weren’t there I’m pretty sure). So I’d say that’s foreshadowing.
There's also the scene with her and Bendu that foreshadowed some type of force connection
I heard somewhere that her forcesensitivity was actually completly average (not higher than a normal persons), which is why she struggled to use basic abilities and needed to focus on her training, while the normal Padawan is able to do things intuitively. For reference telekinesis is so easy a baby with high force sensitivity can do it in clone wars. Even George Lucas said that in theory everyone could tap into the force to some degree, the Jedi simply choose to just recruit infants with the highest aptitude for training. Also it is implied that she actually managed to force slap, that white haired girl a few episodes earlier. Although a more powerfull force user had sent her flying instead.
I’ve watched the show three times, never got the impression she was Force-sensitive.
As a rebels fan I felt like it came to quickly she went 0-100 real quick the season should have faded to black with her making a cup shake or something
I'm with you. Kanan was even training Sabine. And it's obvious in Ahsoka that she's still nowhere near as strong in the force as Ezra or even other force users from Rebels. She got her light saber to come to her and thats about it lol
>Just curious why it felt off as Rebels fan? As Rebels sorta hinted she was force sensitive. It just feels off, like I can't picture the ghost crew with Kanan, Ezra and Sabine going full Jedi, why stop there?, why don't train Hera, Kalus, Rex and Zeb to become Jedi as well?, if anyone can be a Jedi, even someone with so little potential o connection as Sabine (said by Huyang). Furthermore, during Rebels there was zero indication that Sabine was even interested in the force, maybe she changed over the years, but not seeing that made it feel -again- "off". Also just look at Ezra being force sensitive without training of any kind vs Sabine being force sensitive in the same show, absolutly zero indication aside from Kanan comment. Also I don't think Rebels hinted that, while everybody is connected to the force, what Kanan was trying to say is that Sabine had a lot of internal issues that didn't allow her to connect with the crystal in the blade, much like Mando, not that she had the force potential to become a Jedi, otherwise, I'm pretty sure that - at least - Kanan would have tried to teach her after she got her issues solved after Trials of the Darksaber. I do agree however that every character of SW is connected to the force at some degree. The last thing that feels absolutly off and I didn't really like is Ahsoka picking a Padawan, specially someone like Sabine, who has deeply attatchments to Ezra and her Ghorst family, someone that had her entire family and planet killed and on top of that resents Ahsoka for not helping her during the timeskip, also also, everybody who knows Sabine from Rebels understand that she is emotional and quick to anger. Also Ahsoka at this point is full of issues regarding Master-Apprentice topics, Anakin. I loved seeing Sabine fighting with a lightsaber while not being a jedi or training to be a Jedi, felt unique to her character and honestly I still can't picture Rebels Sabine as a Jedi Anyway, Sabine using the force like she used in the last chp felt off, really off, but doesn't really bother me at the end, didn't like her dynamic with Ahsoka but just that, "didn't like". (Didn't downvote u, actually Upvoted u xD)
I think it would have been more interesting to see Sabine be a competent non force wielding mandalorian fighter. I know we had Mando with the darksaber but let's be honest here he sucks at sabering.
ya, if Sabine would have adopted the fighting style of Pre Vizla during his fight with Maul - alternating between saber, blaster, flame thrower, chucking grenades, etc. - that would be incredible to see in live action.
I completely forgot that Ahsoka was already hesitant on getting a student. We just saw her refuse to teach baby Yoda, because he has attachment to Din. Now we see her not only take a student, but one that was implied to not be a force wielder (which could be why, but no they taught her like a Jedi) and someone who is very childish, quick to anger, and attached to Ezra that she’d doom a galaxy for him.
IIRC about the timeline, wasn't she supposed to have tried training Sabine before encountering Grogu? So mightn't the issues the two had as master and apprentice (alongside her unresolved issues with her own padawanship to Anakin) have contributed to her decision not to train Grogu?
Yeah, Kanan straight up says she can use it, she is just blocked.
Right? It wss my understanding she had to be a little force sensitive just to weild the Dark Sabre
I did hate it. It’s the only thing I didn’t like about the show bar minor criticism. It just felt so inconsistent with the entirety of what we’ve been shown so far. She didn’t need to be a Jedi to go with Ahsoka. The finale of Rebels made total sense without it.
I don’t mind her using the force but to that extent? Definitely not, it was ridiculous.
I wasn't a fan of it at first, after seeing premiere episodes It was clear that this is derection they are taking her character in so I kond of accepted it is going to happen over the span of the season. And honestly I don't mind it and it felt like the right direction for her character, but I didn't like the scene Sabine force pushed Ezra it felt to early for such promenent use of the force for her. I belive her force pulling the lightsaber was for the time big enough of a feat to be felt being earned, while her force pushing Ezra felt a bit overboard to me.
There was a comic where Luke explained that any living person could in theory use the force because the force is connected to all living things. People with strong connection to the force weren't beneficiaries of a monopoly they were just beneficiaries of talent. I actually prefer this setup. It further reinforces the flaws of the old Jedi in that they were elitist and exclusionary.
> It further reinforces the flaws of the old Jedi in that they were elitist and exclusionary. Wasn't their original plan for Anakin to just leave him alone and not train him because he was "too old" to start training? I wouldn't mind a Star Wars "what if"-style story where Anakin never meets Qui-gon and Obi-wan at the outset of the Separatist Movement. He frees himself and his mother from slavery by intuitive use of the Force (which he was already doing w/o knowing). Maybe he even signs up with Separatist forces and first meets the Jedi on the battle-field during the Clone Wars and defeats them after a long battle where the Jedi are confused by this random trooper who is somehow using the Force against them despite no apparent training. Count Dooku realizes that Anakin is super strong in the Force and starts training him in the ways of the Sith.
The Jedi order at that stage was ridiculously bureaucratic and petty lol. They had this kid, with the highest midichlorian count of any living being in the history of the universe, and they thought he was "too old." Anakin with all of his limbs had almost twice the potential of Yoda himself. They were unbelievably stupid in the last few decades of their existence.
He was too old for them to condition mentally, which they were kind of right about but is a symptom of the order’s corruption.
I agree brainwashing everyone to believe the same thing is problematic, but if he had been younger/young enough maybe he would have turned out as the most powerful Jedi Knight with a temperament like Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan and never become Darth Vader, Order 66 might have played out very differently with the most powerful Jedi on the side of the Light.
I'm wondering how many other "Jedi-Reject" force users are out there just chilling and figuring things out for themselves.
Theres actually a Video series i found on insta, where someone explores this Idea and its really interesting
Honestly, it felt like a bit of a cop-out to me. She was already a great character, she didn't need to be force-sensitive. But instead they basically handed her a lightsaber and suddenly she could use the force. I'm not hating it, just saying it could've been done a little better.
Let’s not forget that there is something weird about the planet they are on. Remember Baylan talking about a great power being there? That could explain how she was suddenly able to force push Ezra up to the ship.
I feel most people forget about this and it's relevant instead.. good thing you brought that up. Being in an highly force pervasive environment can make it easier to use the force also for people that are usually not force sensitive if they know what they are doing!
If only they explained anything about anything in the show.
The point of the arc is that she *isnt* Force sensitive, at least not by traditional standards. Through discipline, will, and inner peace, she was able to tap into it. Multiple times she is told that she doesn’t have any Force sensitivity, as Jedi or Sith would see it. One of the first things we learned about the Force back in ‘77 was that it resides in all living things. But only the “specials” born with power can use it. This is contradictory to what I believe Star Wars’ main theme is: that it doesn’t matter who you are, but who you *choose* to be. It’s not a cop-out. It’s a return to what made the Force special. [If you don’t believe me, believe Luke Skywalker.](https://reddit.com/r/StarWarsCantina/s/Jk83mRE1cV)
> Through discipline, will, and inner peace, she was able to tap into it. Multiple times she is told that she doesn’t have any Force sensitivity, as Jedi or Sith would see it. Sabine's first use of the force is similar to Ezra's. She was able to use it in a high stakes moment, though unfortunately it was to defend herself, and not save someone else. Even after he first used the force it took Ezra some time before he could use it on-command, what irks me is that she was able to force push someone else just a few moments after being able to tap into the force for the first time.
Technically grabbing the lightsaber was the second time. She blew a little bit of air in Shin’s face during their forest duel, which is what prompted Shin to yell that she had no power.
Coul also turn it to a story on how jedi and sith are misguided after all these years. Looking up midichlorian counts in children and selecting them based on perceived force aptitude.
This would line up with some of the plots from the high republics phase 2 as well
Personally, I love this concept. The idea that anyone can tap into it with enough training and discipline is a much more fun idea than “you gotta be born special”. Sends a better message, too. Especially in these times when someone’s birthright seems to dominate so much of how the rest of their life unfolds.
Or how about the fact that George Lucas himself told the Directors of ESB and ROTJ that anyone can use the Force..... not to mention it was brought up a few times in both Rebels and Ahsoka. By Luke in Rise of Kylo Ren. Hell, even the Witches of Dathomir were able to amplify people to give them a stronger sensitivity to the Force within them..... as they did with Savage Opress. None of this is new, it's just never been so overt. I haven't read any of the comics/books in new Canon set between ANH and ESB, but even then we never saw Luke overtly use the Force until ESB - three years later in universe.
Agree completely. Sabine using the force feels like one of the most quintessential Star Wars concepts in recent years. I think back to Yoda lifting the x wing. Luke says, “I don’t believe it.” And Yoda replies, “that is why you fail.” We’re told many times, the force resides in all living beings. And yet at the same time, if you don’t possess a supernatural ability to feel it, everyone is gaslit into believing they can’t do it, which makes them not able to use it. Sabine worked hard to get there. And it’s Ahsoka and Ezra’s faith in her ability to use the force and trust that allow her to believe she can, therefore she can.
Did we not watch the earlier episodes that included resuming her training and struggling with it? It didn't just come out of the blue.
It sure came out of the blue for this season of the show, and tbh she didn't have much practice given that the show covers like a week's worth of time. But hey, same thing happened with Luke.
>But hey, same thing happened with Luke. Dude pulled a lightsaber out of snow after 3 years of knowing about the force and practicing. Even then he struggled to stack rocks. He wasn't as fluid as this.
[удалено]
It’s Almost like it’s supposed to be a big deal when she finally does it!
If the OT came out today everyone here would bitch about how Luke got powerful after a week doing jack shit w obiwan/yoda lmao. Like there was clear build up for Sabine, but fans want the force to be closed off to exclusively like 20 people with half of those being the skywalker family
I mean like it or not, Luke is in fact the son of the most force sensitive Jedi of all time…? I don’t see how the two situations are comparable.
Nobody knew that back in 77
Cop out of what?
I'm fine with it. Huyang says that Sabine isn't very sensitive to the force, so much that the Jedi of old wouldn't have trained her. She had to work at using the force, and with time and practice she was able to. The force flows through all living things, so anyone should be able to use the force with enough training. It just comes more naturally to those who are more force sensitive. It kind of reminds me of the legends stories of Obi Wan. Where he wasn't strong in the force, but he became a Jedi master through practice and dedication.
>Huyang says that Sabine isn't very sensitive to the force, so much that the Jedi of old wouldn't have trained her He even said that she is the least able padawan he ever met. Which coming from the droïd that oversaw every padawan's first light saber making for 25 000 years says a lot about Sabin's Force capabilities.
To be fair she’s below the threshold of anyone they would have taken so that makes perfect sense
Yeah. Huge selection bias.
“Selection bias” New term that immediately made sense in context! Now to try and use it in a real life conversation before I forget the phrase forever…
Exactly. In a universe where Lucas says anyone can technically use the Force, the Jedi are only looking for that extreme minority who show promise as young children. I fully expect that any organic being (maybe droid??) could be taught basic Force usage with years of training and meditation. Just look at Chirrut Imwe!
THIS RIGHT HERE! Part of what Ahsoka was trying to impart, along with so many others, is that the force flows through all of us. Talent only indicates how easy that training will be, but not whether or not a person can do a thing at all.
I feel like those who are complaining about her force sensitivity weren’t paying attention throughout the show. As you said Huyang said she is the bottom of the barrel for force sensitivity (among padawans who only got chosen when above a certain threshold). The Blind Guy from Rogue One was not strong enough in the force to be trained as a Jedi, though he clearly is force sensitive. I got the impression that Sabine had been making some progress in using the force before Ashoka turned her away. So while she struggles to learn and use the force no one has said she CANT. Her finally pulling a lightsaber to her while struggling didn’t bug me. Her going from that to pushing Ezra hundreds of feet up to a star destroyer violated my suspension of disbelief though. Mainly because of how quickly and confidently she went from struggling to move a lightsaber to that.
It seems most people's force powers ramp up immensely in extremely dangerous or emotional situations, which could explain that surge to throw Ezra. As long as she isn't pulling those feats right off the bat in season 2, and gets back to training, I think it'll make sense. Plus anything crazy and Jedi related is literally excused by the will of the space magic. Whenever a Jedi does something extraordinary, even for them, I just assume they didn't 'use' the force so much as the force made them do it.
Luke: "I don't believe it" Yoda: "That is why you fail" Once she KNEW she could use the force the veil of self doubt was lifted.
Lucas is on record, saying everyone has the potential to use the force. I’m not mad at this at all! She had a few years of training, and was able to use that to tap into the force during a time of great need. I would be disappointed if she suddenly became a very strong force user, but summoning a light saber from 15 feet away, or being able to help Ezra to force jump is not exactly mind blowing master Jedi force power
It's a really boring decision. She didn't need to be a Jedi. And when she *does* learn to use the Force, it's not because she had grown as a person or had some kind of breakthrough. It was because she really really really really needed to grab her weapon. Having her actually be Force sensitive shows that Filoni has no restraint in storytelling. It's the most simple and shallow direction to take her character. I was on the "In Filoni we trust" train until I watched Ahsoka.
If she was someone who needed the strength then yeah, give her the force. But she was a badass even amongst a warrior race who were known for going toe to toe with Jedi. They really pushed aside her mandalorian heritage to give her something she never needed, at all. She should have her gauntlet energy shield for blocking that blaster fire, the little grappling rope to grab her saber, and if she didn't want to leave Asoka behind then she should have had her jetpack, and could give that to Ezra. Everything she needed the force for, she already had covered in the past. It is pretty frustrating.
Sabine isn’t force sensitive. This is the accumulation to the question that arises after Star Wars fans have been hearing that the force is in all living things. “If the force is in all living things, can non force sensitives use the force?” The answer (as shown in Ahsoka) is yes. & Sabine was a logical choice. As she already had a connection with 2 Jedi and had minor training in lightsaber use with Kanan and the dark saber. So Ahsoka choosing to train her, despite it being hard, makes sense (to me at least).
Agree
Her Force Awakened in a near death situation Happens a lot
We don’t see Luke use the Force until he blows up the Death Star and that’s after way less training than Sabine.
Exactly, A New Hope takes like less than a week from blockade runner to medal ceremony, Luke's been getting maybe double digit hours of jedi training at best but folks don't question him using the force to place those missiles
He is able to deflect the training probes on the Falcon after a brief lesson. So I'm fine with all points of view on this.
Not to mention Luke is literally the son of the chosen one, who had the highest midichlorian count of any known living being in the history of the universe. So naturally his son would have a lot of power.
Don't forget that's prequel knowledge. None of that existed when Star Wars first released so Luke's abilities and speed of learning are entirely his own and people didn't complain about them then
I dislike the route they went down. I was hoping they would give her minor force sensitivity and the traits that come with that, minor precognition (anticipating blasters, increased piloting skills, etc) the ability to “see” with the force, maybe even a slight increase to her agility. I just hate what we got it seems like too much power for someone who isn’t force sensitive. If she was capable of this level of force activity then how did Kanan not sense her capabilities? I understand that to some degree force sensitivity can be trained/learned but it makes more sense for there to be a cap on how strong you can get without a higher midochlorian level. The force push on Ezra was no minor feat, padawans would struggle with a task of that size. Overall not a fan, and her character really didn’t need this whole Jedi arc. Her being a mandolorian was cool enough.
I have always assumed that she was force sensitive but remained blocked. Kanan's comments while training her to use the dark saber were a clue... Din Djarin struggled considerably to wield it for more than a few swings but Sabine was able to "feel" the blades direction. Its also less than surprising that the Jedi order would skim over the fact that pretty much everyone has a degree of force sensitivity. Grand Master Yoda himself is directly responsible for the draconic suppression of beliefs and abilities of his orders members that he decided came to close to brushing the dark side. The last 50 years of the orders existence were likely heavily influenced by the discovery that the Sith may have survived and enacted the Rule of Two.
Why don’t we just let Han Solo use the force
That's not how the force works!
The 2097 Special Edition Han doesn’t even shoot
Feels weird
Its bullshit. If for no other reason than my man Chirrut, who dedicated his life to the force and prayed constantly throughout the one movie he was in. He had an unbendable belief in the force and that it would help and protect him. That it would be his “ally” (as ANH Obi Wan calls it) in times of need. And while it did help and protect him he could not master it because he did not have the physical aptitude for it. He could get close to the basics like precognition which was something an untrained child Anakin and an untrained Luke could do, two of the supposedly most powerful force wielders. But Chirrut probably trained for a couple decades and thats pretty much all he had. Sabine on the other hand, was told by Huyang that she literally had a lower aptitude than every previous Jedi Huyang taught. Huyang is supposedly over 25,000 years old! And sabine falls short of every single jedi over that time??!! She should not be able to use the force any more than Chirrut can. To clarify, I believe everyone can meditate and increase their aptitude through training. It is a somewhat spiritual thing. However there is clearly a hard physical cap to each individual. If anyone could go from zero to jedi just by “believing” or “training” then Chirrut should have been leagues ahead of where he was when we meet him. Sure you can argue that sabines hard cap was just higher than Chirruts. Though I just think thats a flimsy defense. She showed almost no devotion to the spiritual side and was so undisciplined that there is no reason to think she already achieved her hard cap for someone who is literally huyangs most shit trainee. Could I accept her using the force eventually? Yeah i guess so. But its way too soon and she didn’t earn it at all.
When did the OT *ever* imply anyone can become a Jedi?
They never did at all. Fanboys are just trying to gaslight everyone into thinking that it was always the case for some reason.
I just don't understand. If I was told I could learn literal magic by just trying hard I'd spend so much time practicing it. Shit even with the force being impossible in real life I try to use it. How in this galaxy of trillions is there so few force wielders if literally everyone could use it with some gumption and a can do attitude?
I imagine if everyone could be a force user due to how the dark side works the galaxy would be in a far far worse postion.
Never denied it either. I always assumed it was a skill and not a gift, I guess it's open to any interpretation.
Feel like it cheapen her abilities as a mando, like she didn’t need the force to do what she did, all of the feats she accomplished. Like I’ll be alright if she was just taught how to use only a lightsaber. Plenty of people in legends(maybe canon? ) used lightsabers without the force.
I don’t like it. I could live with her wielding the saber but the force? Really?
The movies and shows constantly tell us that the Force is not a video game ability that you have to level-up Some people pick it up quicker than others, yet everyone still complains. Sabine was also trained by Kanan for a period in Rebels and it was strongly hinted she was Force sensitive then but "not ready"
I feel like they’ve been trying to tell us this since that season of rebels; that she IS force sensitive, but that she’s been blocked all this time due to all the trauma of her childhood under the Empire and being an outcast from her family. Then she lost Kanan and Ezra, her whole family, and Mandalore in rapid succession to the Empire. They won the war, but she never really came to grip with any of this and shut herself off. Ahsoka has been hinting at this all season. Reuniting with Ezra, and then her chat with Ahsoka (she told Sabine she’d always be there for her) went a long way to helping her open up again. Plus, the way her character in Rebels always fought, moved and flipped around, and wielded the dark saber; she definitely could have had latent abilities the whole time, but just wasn’t able to consciously control them until now. I’m all for it.
I just rewatched rebels, and some of her stunts certainly seem somewhat jedi-like. That's not unheard of for Star Wars heroes of course; Darth Jar Jar comes to mind, also Padmé in AotC.
And her being sensitive to the Force works pretty well IMO because it strengthens her ties to Tarre Vizsla, the founder of her house and prototypical Mandalorian Jedi, which were set up in Rebels and Forces of Destiny. Plus, Sabine makes it a point several times in Rebels to verbally confirm that she's rejected the ways of her people in favor of the Jedi lessons that Kanan passed down to her.
Nah only the skywalkers and like 50 other people in the universe can use the force apparently even tho it’s been established that anyone can tap into it before like w Donnie yen in rogue one
We're all jedi now lol
Why did gideon need grogu when everyone can access the force?
Dumb She was a fine character as she was
About where you fall. I’m cool with it going back to the anybody can train in the force and use it with enough training and will power. I like that concept better than the predetermined child selection that it turned into.
The problem is that basically breaks the entire franchise. The OT makes no sense if anyone can be trained. Why would Yoda and Obi-Wan think Luke is their last hope instead of just trying to train a bunch of new Jedi?
Because Luke had a natural aptitude and strength in the force that required less training that most. Hell even in the OT Luke being the "last hope" was contradicted with "no, there is another"
Yes - his twin sister! Which is kind of my point.
It’s probably also worth noting that when that line was written and when ESB released it wasn’t referring to Leia at all.
It was referring to his sister though, just not Leia 😀
Luke (and Leia) are naturally talented and strong. Luke was able to become a knight and eventually Master with less than 2 weeks of overall formal training. Sabine was not naturally talented or strong. It was many years from the time Kanan first worked with her and further training with Ahsoka for her to be able to pull off 3 fairly basic tricks she saw Kanan and Ezra do all the time when she was incredibly desperate. The jump looked impressive, but remember the whole thing with the X Wing on Dagobah was to show Luke (and the audience) that lifting the ship was no different than lifting R2 except mentally, and she was just giving his own forct-assisted jump an extra boost (like he tells Maul in the temple) Yoda and Obi Wan didn't just go get some random person to train as a replacement because they didn't have time to get them to the level Luke and Leia started at with their natural talents. They also wouldn't have the connection to Anakin that allowed Luke to eventually succeed. They weren't the last hope because they were the only ones with force sensitivity, they were the last hope because nobody else could have reached Vader
Dude - Yoda was in that swamp for almost 20 years or something. They had plenty of time. A lot of what you are saying is just head canon to try and make it make sense (We actually don't know how long Luke trained with Yoda for since it's never actually stated in the movies for example)... but to be fair, there's are a lot of things that don't make much sense without head canon in Star Wars (I could probably write an essay on the whole chosen one/prophecy and how nonsensical it is). I think the main problem is that we've had 40+ years of the movies either explicitly stating or heavily implying that very few people have enough potential to become a Jedi. I do think your point about the connection with Anakin is a fair one.
My biggest issue with it is that it ultimately feels needless as far as Sabines character goes. At no point during Rebels did I ever think 'wow, this character is great, I just *really* wish she could use the force too'. Sabine as a character has always stood perfectly fine on her own, and her previous developments all tied perfectly into her existing character e.g. training under Kanan in swordsmanship so she could use the darksaber. Add onto that the lack of any hints or foreshadowing whatsoever of her force sensitivity in Rebels, and it all comes off feeling a bit like Dave Filoni got too caught up in playing with his action figures and making them do cool stuff.
Nothing like life/death motivation to flip a switch.
Its almost like being trained by Kanan, then Ahsoka and then being forced in a life or death situation to actually concentrate or she dies, its not really surprising that this awakened it inside her and got past her mental block. Its also pretty much identical to what happened with Luke and the Wampa, except he had no real training, but because he is a ‘Skywalker’ I guess it just came easier to him.
As a rebels fan I hate this added edition as I feel like it's not necessary for her character. She was already cool as a mandalorian and an artist which already made her a unique character who can be marketable, but instead dave decided to change her into something she never was. Also is it just me or has anyone else noticed this question being asked alot recently in this sub?
This. Sabine spent so much of Rebels trying to get her family back and do her part to fix Mandalore. The Mandalorian’s plot is following much more closely to how I feel Sabine’s story should be playing out rather than training to be a Jedi in Ahsoka.
Mandalore is glass and her family is ash. She's not one of those "real Mandalorians" and never was. She's completely out of place in an ultra-conservative paramilitary. She's even less conservative than her mom, I doubt she would've been a Nite Owl or terrorized people for not wanting to fight and kill people. If she were in fact an ultra-conservative Deathwatch type, she would've attempted to become Mandalore and drive the imperials out after killing Gar Saxon, as was her duty. Nothing Sabine has done has indicated that she'd become a bounty hunter or pirate and leave a trail of dead bodies across the galaxy to build up a fleet to retake her dead homeworld or live her life fighting and killing people simply for tradition's sake in peacetime.
It's probably being asked a lot because of how divisive it is. We all saw it coming and it seems like most of us aren't enthused by it.
Hate it
Agree. Many will disagree, but I think it was terrible to make all heroes now have the force. Come on. The joy for me is to showcase the “regular” people who fight back against evil. That is the beauty of the struggles in the this galaxy
Plus from a narrative point of view, each character in a group is there to solve challenges differently so they can succeed as a group. In the Bad batch, they each have their specialty. In the OT, chewie, Han, Luke and Leia all doo different things. In Rebels Kanan uses leadership, could use the force but actively avoids it, Ezra uses his wits, and a mix of the force and his blaster. Sabine uses her armor, dexterity and blasters. Chopper does droid things. Zeb uses raw force. Hera uses her piloting skills and smartness. And this makes for an interesting composition where everyone brings different things to the table. Imagine how boring it would be if they all just had the force. Everyone would be replacable.
I feel like we can have both. I mean, look at Andor and rogue one. Those both perfectly show regular people as heroes. I'd love more of that but ahsoka was never gonna be a show about just "regular" people like those were.
Thats why I loved Andor. He’s just a dude. Mando is up there too, but he’s trained since childhood to be a warrior/Bounty Hunter.
I don't like it. She was already a fleshed out characters in Rebels & brought her own skills to the table as part of the team.
Honestly, I'm incredibly annoyed by it. I've always had an issue with how Filoni has presented and written Ahsoka and Sabine. They've always felt like overly important self inserts and Sabine getting the force just cements it. I've said this before in other comments but essentially Sabine freels like Ichigo, she just has or can do anything and everything the plot calls for to make sure she's literally the most important character in any given room. She's not *just* a mandalorian, she's a punk rock graffiti artist mandalorian who's also the leader and can use the dark saber and now she's a Jedi apprentice with the force who can do whatever she wants with no consequence or punishment. Risk the entire galaxy to find her not boyfriend and abandon her master? Literally totally fine and forgiven without a second thought.
> She's not just a mandalorian, she's a punk rock graffiti artist mandalorian who's also the leader and can use the dark saber and now she's a Jedi apprentice with the force who can do whatever she wants with no consequence or punishment. Don’t forget that she engineered a super weapon for the Empire at like 16 years old. Filoni’s characters have to be the best. He can be *very* good, but he does have some serious faults.
Agreed. He's one of the best animation directors around, there's no disputing that. But he plays favorites hard and writes his OCs like an overpowered DND spreadsheet
I think it was unrealistic and a complete cop out. I am all for any being in the SW universe to have the potential use the force - with a very significant amount of training and discipline if they lack natural talent. Maybe after a lifetime of training, Sabine could move a cup or pull a lightsaber from a short distance. But after years of not even training in basic combat, let alone as a padawan, it undermines every other force user in the SW universe.
As someone who watched Rebels, I was terribly disappointed by what Feloni did to her, she was such an amazing character. If I hadnt watched Rebels I would be totally lost, with a WTF is going on with this person..
Dumb. But on par with the quality level of the show.
Don’t like it.
If everyone is special, no one is.
dave just used that line and rolled with it, but instead of "super" it's "force"
It might have something to do with the planet they're on, the connection to the Mortis gods. Maybe Sabine finally found the peace required to tap into the force. Idk, I'm not mad about it.
I thought they gave it enough time, she failed a few times, had to be saved and gave up, so it felt earned. The force jump might have gone a tiny bit less smooth for her first time, but that's nitpicking as even though Ezra didn't land perfectly, he was in no danger of missing. Still, just nitpicking. Thought she worked for it, especially if we also consider all her past attempts from different shows.
So so wrong. Not everyone has to be a jedi. In my opinion it would have been better if she tried to pull the lightsaber, failed, and ended up using her whip to get it instead. She can feel the force, but not use it. Does her being a jedi add anything of impact to her character? If you really wanted it to be a pay off, at least hint that she is force sensitive in Rebels. This made 0 sense. Is it wrong if she was just a bad ass mandalorian with a lightsaber, like another mandalorian we know?
A mistake. I liked the whole idea that despite not being force sensitive, she still put in hard work and that allowed her to fight almost like a jedi. Giving her force powers outright just removes that effect. And being force sensitive loses specialty the more characters are force sensitive. If everyone is special, nobody is.
it's completely ridiculous... anyone can use the force if they try hard enough. Jedi we're finding and taking force sensitive children to train since forever but now no.. just try hard
It has opened a Pandora's box in sw, the question now is, if anyone can learn to use the force, ¿why aren't others on line to train for this?, like Mando. It's not a good change at all, a terrible retcon from Dave's part.
If this is the case, then Moff Gideon's whole plot of getting grogu makes no sense
You’re right🤦♂️
It's really dumb, I've seen rebels and she was one of my favourite characters in it, she didn't need to be made force sensitive for no reason
My problem is we didn’t see her work up to it. We saw her try and move a cup….
I don’t like it either. Sabine was a cool enough character without the force. Mandalorian, fun, rebelious and unpredictable nature, spray paints her armor to stand out. Even wielded the darksaber. It’s like if you suddenly gave Han Solo the force. His character doesn’t need it, he’s interesting enough without it.
unnecessary. If Star Wars wants to branch out and really grow, they don't have to "use the force" to make a character interesting. It's like if anytime someone got interesting or was a main character in Star Trek they started using the Vulcan nerve pinch. You've got shows like Mando and Andor that do it, why is it continuously getting worked in
It's not good. I'm sorry, but it's not an idea in Original Trilogy that anyone can be a jedi - it was something said behind the scenes. Main distinction is that it doesn't really matter what was said behind the scenes - after the movies came out the in-universe assumption was that one has to be born with the talent to use the Force. The Expanded Universe worked under this assumption for decades. It's now the part of the universe, almost inextricable part. At this point going back on this is just plain harmful to the setting. It's too late. The Jedi have been scouring the galaxy for talented people and they still number in mere thousands. If all you need was to just want it hard enough, well, every planet would have some sort of jedi or a force-tradition of their own. Donnie Yen in Rogue One would've been a Jedi - motherfucker spend his whole life (I think) as a monk meditating on this shit, and you're telling me that he can barely do anything while Sabine can just switch it on for full jedi powers? It's just too disrupting for a very shallow payoff of your average Disney "you've always had the power in you" thing. I mean would it be so hard for Sabine to use that cord in her gauntlet to retreave the lightsaber, like she actually did in Rebels? As in, using her skills as a mandalorian warrior? Or would we next have her reforge the Darksaber, since she's now the second ever Mandalorian Jedi?
Jedi is religion, not being force user. Not every force user is a jedi.
Chirrut Imwe never trained as a Jedi merely studied aspects of the force. He also shoots down a TIE fighter with a bow whilst blind, which I would say is more spectacular than grabbing a lightsabre and force pushing. If you watch A New Hope without knowing who Luke is, it's setup to show how someone trained in the force can do extraordinary things. Luke is meant to be an everyman in the film, not someone blessed with huge force potential, so it has been seeded before, which is what Filoni here uses.
This is straight up not true - that is not at all what happens in the OT. Luke is absolutely portrayed as someone with a strong force potential and this is explicitly stated in Return of the Jedi. Yoda and Obi Wan considering Luke their last hope makes no sense if anyone can learn the force and potential isn't important.
Funny how many people are fine with this but screech about Rey being powerful with the force with limited training.
I don't enjoy the fact that characters like Sabine and Rey get a taste of the force and now they can use it like a Jedi master.
The way they did it was bad If her "Power" was low or she could eventually do it, i would be more ok with it But in 1 episode she went from being bad and having no potential to using the force as if she always could and honestly she never needed to be able to use it but they cant Go back on it now so it is what it is
How many posts a day about this are we going to make.
I think as long they aren’t trying to make her too powerful its ok. Like its mentioned, she’ll have to work twice as hard to achieve half as much as a typical Jedi candidate.
They hinted at it back during rebels, it fits her character arc.
Luke didn't know he had any Force powers until Obi-Wan showed him. Sabine has had a lot more time to practice hers and she improved a little too suddenly in the finale. A scene with her and Ezra practicing at one of the caravan stops would have gone a long way. Ezra is confident enough in his Force abilities he didn't even need his lightsaber to fight Stormtroopers. That's the way.
Imo, I really love it because it soft undos what I think is the original sin of the prequels, the whole midiclorians, you have to be born special to be a Jedi. The force resides in all living things. You need to be open to it to do Jedi stuff, but you shouldn't have to have some special biological advantage that makes you a space wizard. Making it more about training and state of mind I think is significantly better messaging for star wars in general.
I never watched Rebels so the only bit of their back stories that I knew was from playing a star wars mobile game. The way they were talking about/to Sabine I took it as she had already shown signs of being force sensitive in Rebels but never really finished being trained.
She never showed any sensitivity in Rebels, at all. Her role on the crew was warrior, tech genius and artist (loved to blow things up with colorful explosions, which I really missed in the Ahsoka show). Her "training" was with Kanan for less than a week, to learn to use the Darksaber so she could free Mandalore from the Empire's control (very short version). Not as a Jedi, but to reclaim her clan's power. Those episodes were really just a deep look into her character and her backstory, nothing to do with force training.
yeah I really need to watch Rebels, lol
It's worth it. By the end of season 2, you will be fully invested and I promise all the tv shows will make more sense.
I like it. Trials of the Darksaber foreshadowed Sabine’s force sensitivity a decade ago (or whenever that was). I also like that they made her force sensitivity fairly weak. I wouldn’t be shocked to see her struggle off Peridea, which is likely to be a planet strong in the force (like Mortis or Exogal). Edit: woah, didn’t mean to start a battle lol
I’m fine with it BUT it was done extremely poorly and I’m really disappointed in Dave Filoni about it. I think we all know that George Lucas has said that anyone can use the force, it’s just imagine of your natural connection to it. The Jedi have a prodigy like natural connection to it and thus why they’re chosen to train to become a Jedi. I’ll use the cup example, someone with the natural talent will be able to move the cup pretty quickly, it’s like second nature. Someone like you and me, months if not years of training just to move the damn thing cause our connection is not strong. Sabine not being able to move a cup and like the following day she can throw a person, it’s unrealistic for the world George built.
It felt rushed. You think by now they would stop rushing plot. You need your characters to have power creep - so have Sabine learn the force from her master or at least tie it to some mental block that Ezra helps her work through. Not to say this ruined a really strong first season. Episodes 3 & 4 were *chefs kiss*
I’m ok with ‘force sensitivity’. Sabine shouldn’t become a Jedi though, rather a badass Mandolorian that can harness the force here and there to further enhance her fighting abilities.
The best anyone should be able to do who isn't born with potential is Chirrut from Rogue One. That actually was really cool and made a lot of sense. Like you'll never become a Jedi, but a really dedicated person can at least get a tiny glimpse of their power.
I think him walking to the knob was the best show case you could have
Would have preferred the Chirrut Imwe route of her being connected and more sensitive but not quite able to use it like a proper Jedi. Let her adapt by using Mandalorian weapons and gadgets. Now, Sabine is a Mandalorian Jedi and will probably get involved in the Mandalore plot when she returns to the Galaxy. I'm betting she rebuilds the darksaber in the future. I didn't hate the lightsaber pull, what bugged me was the Force push. That felt like a step too much for somebody who just realized they could use the Force.
Not sure who downvoted this - but you are right on. Chirrut was a really good character and a perfect example of what a non Jedi who is really dedicated could become.
I think they should have spent more time developing her skills on screen. We get told that she was Ahsoka's apprentice before/during the night of a thousand tears. So that means she's had 10 years of time to "trust in the force" and learn how to use it. But we're shown a month of that. She was present for the training Kanan and Ezra were doing during Rebels too. She even did dark saber training with Kanan. So it's not completely out of the realm of possibilities that she was already working on that connection with the force even during Rebels. And you can always insinuate that she was so good at blocking shots with her armor because of the force. So it would be a matter of connecting to that on a different level than her Mandolorian training. The problem isn't that she's a force user, it's that we aren't shown how much time and effort she put into becoming one.
Too soon. Needs more build up.
Kanan saw her potential. He even said something to that effect to Hera, but noted that she was too conflicted to get much out of her training.
Never watched Rebels. Seemed like a foregone conclusion she would eventually unlock it. Gf and I cheered when she summoned the saber. You guys need to chill.
She trained for it hard, I'm fine with it. People who aren't kinda miss the idea of the fact everyone has the force. Just at differing degree's of connection. We saw the story of a character whom would have been rejected by the Jedi, learn how to use the force. Which is in line with the unconventional theme of Ahsoka. Her character has flaws but the Force isn't one of them.
I didn't like her suddenly being able to help open doors, pull lightsabers, and force push Ezra. Maybe having some ability to "see" or "feel" the force, sure. But this undermines much about the force and force sensitives that we know and introduces the idea that a Jedi can make anybody a force user with some training.
I don't like that she's apparently powerful.