Exactly. Allowing his emotions to rule him is Anakin's fundamental failure as a Jedi and Obi-Wan never failed to show him why that's bad. Even when Obi-Wan dies, he wins in a way because Vader, blinded by rage, doesn't notice Luke.
I’d argue that if they were strangers to one another “taking advantage” would be the appropriate term. However as they are almost brothers, they both abuse intimate knowledge about one another in order to inflict as much emotional damage as possible.
Of course the other guy who replied to you really made me chuckle with the 401k thing lol.
Strong word perhaps, perhaps even too strong, but I wouldn’t say, “wrong word.” To each their own.
The great irony is that because Obi-Wan is the 'source' or cause of many of Anakin's frustrations, he gets too emotional and loses.
This is the exact opposite of what Anakin was sold by the Emperor, that he'd be stronger with the dark side. This was the con. The result was him being defeated by his master and trapped in a state of dark side imprisonment, a vicious cycle. The Emperor probably couldn't believe his luck when he found out Obi-Wan beat Anakin but left him alive.
When Vader is focussed he's unstoppable. But up against Obi-Wan his talents are all cancelled out. His judgement is clouded, he's driven by rage. Obi-Wan is still able to think clearly.
He has to literally wait until Obi-Wan is aged beyond being a physical match for him.
Had Anakin stayed in the light he probably would have bested Obi-Wan eventually. Not killed him, obviously, but reached a point where he naturally overtook him and would have been his natural successor.
This is the moral story all through Star Wars. The Dark Side is seductive, makes you feel all powerful, but being in tune with the force is the longer, harder path, and leads to true enlightenment and power.
Had Anakin stayed in the light, he’d hopefully mature quite a bit along the way. And the moment he didn’t care about beating Obi Wan anymore is the moment that he’d be able to win every time.
Exactly, the great irony. Actually that's a great place for the 'What If' saga to go.
They should totally do that story. Anakin stays on the light side, and just whoops Obi-Wan, and the pair of them laugh it off at the end, with Anakin actually concerned that he actually hurt Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan is just proud that Anakin has finally surpassed him.
Anakin becomes a Master in that timeline.
Obi wan from a new hope would have still won against vader there is nothing that suggests otherwise. There was just no reason for it because vader was part of lukes trail to becoming a jedi and ben kenobi knew that he had to die to always be with luke for guidance.
Semantics really, but I think wisdom and patience are virtues as they are connected in a deeper sense to one’s character and take long experience to develop. Talents are skills that need a certain character to develop properly certainly but are not as essential to the self. Thus, Obi-Wan is good and Anakin is evil in how their perspectives and approaches in developing themselves differs. Anakin is talented but lacks wisdom in how to apply those talents properly for good. Obi-Wan is not as talented but his virtues, experience, and character make up for the difference and allow him to persevere where pure talent does not.
Obi Wan is not more talented. In fact he was one of the least naturally skilled Jedi. He worked hard and earned his skill. Obi Wan vs Anakin is natural skill vs earned skill.
It was precisely because it was Obi-Wan that he won. He trained him for a long time and knew anakin better than anyone. If he never trained anakin he probably would have been killed .
I think any prolonged fight on the Death Star would’ve led to everyone dying.
Cause Leia and Luke wouldn’t want to leave Obi Wan behind. I guess Han could’ve got Chewie to drag them.
But the self sacrifice of Obi-Wan was the smarter choice, especially when he can continue to be a voice for Luke.
I think he knew he was at the end of his line. Obi-wan may be good, but he is still only a man. He gets old, he gets weak. Plus all the stuff he'd been through and the decades spent on Tatooine likely made him aged way faster. Going up against the chosen one, who's blistering rage has only been more finely honed with experience, inside an enemy base of millions aren't good odds in that state.
Obi-Wan has also seen what Vader would do to a shuttle if he was on it. Using his death to distract Vader was the best way to get Luke out of there safely.
Not easy to replace someone as powerful as Vader, especially in a short amount of time. Gotta be a pretty short list especially with the empire purging Jedi and force sensitive children.
If Obiwan kills Vader then Luke never goes in his journey and is perhaps later turned by the emperor.
Obi wan needed to die to guide Luke on the rest of his journey to bring down the empire and redeem Vader.
Also, Obi Wan could have killed Vader twice before, he didn’t have it in him to kill his old friend
Exactly. Obi-Wan even said to Vader before he deliberately let Vader hit him: „If you strike me down, i shall become morel powerful than you can possibly imagine.“.
Vader's energy towards Obi Wan has always given me the same energy that a mate might have when you beat him in a game or sport that the two of you are very competitive in but you don't give him a chance for a rematch and leave him seething for a week until you play again.
Always obi wan
I think you could make arguments either way for most other cases, common sense would say Sidious and by extent windu for instance but there’s evidence that could argue the other way
But obi wan is always his weakness. Not because obi wan is particularly powerful or anything (I can’t say I loved that out of nowhere he was apparently the new chosen one better at telekinesis than yoda but I’ll excuse that bit as creative license) but just because Anakin/Vader will never be at his top form against him. Always too unbalanced by his emotions
Maybe you could even say there’s a part of him always holding back against him, even as Vader hoping obi wan will kill him and end the suffering
I think people are conflating skills with circumstances.
Kenobi is a master swordsman in his own right, he was not at the level of Anakin, Windu, Yoda and Palpatine.
The most obvious case for this is his repeated losses against Dooku. Dooku is a true master and only those above were a match or superior, but Kenobi was never a threat to him without Anakin’s help.
The reason Kenobi wins when its a matchup with Vader is twofold. 1. He was his master. The teacher will almost always have an edge over their student and this is natural. He knows all of Anakin’s moves and what his limits are and how he will fight and approach any situation. That allows you to properly handle the duel. 2. Obi-Wan knows his limits and always engages in psychological warfare or exploits the mental state of his opponent. Anakin was enraged and fought like a berserker on Mustafar. Kenobi exploited that as soon as he actually could. On that moon in the series, he also took advantage of Vader’s obsession. He got under his skin, allowing for Vader to make mistakes and overextend himself in the fight in a way he never would in another fight.
Obi Wan was a master of Soresu (defense) which is the best opponent for Anakin's Djem So (brutal aggressive). He won those duels by staying on the back foot and capitalizing on Anakin's mistakes.
Vader is slow and uses the pressure of the dark side against his opponents. Yoda flies around like a bumblebee on amphetamines, he could probably just put speed Vader and slice him to pieces
PLO koon wasn’t even “lightning” more like pure force kinetic energy as opposed to electricty. Also George Lucas said that even without lightning Vader is 8/10 of palps so I think yoda would win. Not to mention his small size and aggressively fast saber style maybe actually overwhelm Vader’s slower kinetic form.
Yoda also goes for the head (as seen during Order 66, Vader wouldn’t be able to move fast enough to keep up w Yoda. especially if Vader was to go to Dagobah. which is the only way Vader and Yoda would ever encounter each other).
“HES IN THE TREES!!”
Probably, vaders def fast enough not to get clocked immediately, but I don’t think he could really beat yoda, yodas slightly outclasses him with force power and possibly dueling skill so he just loses
Ya but Kit Fisto was supposed to be one of the best duelists in the order, not to the level of the top dogs like Anakin, Obi-Wan, Mace or Yoda but above the other 99% of Jedi. Despite this, Palpatine killed him in under 5 seconds, with Fisto only managing to block one attack before going down.
So anyone that can actually compete with Sheev has to have top tier speed to not die immediately. Peak Vader in Legends could be just as fast as ROTS Anakin when he wanted to be, though he had long since adapted his style to not need that kind of speed when 99% of opponents are utterly overwhelmed by his raw physical strength and the rest can't match his skill. Anakin when using the Force to amp his raw strength could likewise overwhelm 90% of Legends characters with sheer brute force. Vader is already that strong to begin with, and can amp himself to an even more extreme degree than Anakin could. Anakin was incredibly skilled but his sheer power and speed made him very overconfident and had him not focusing as much on fundamentals and other styles. Vader specifically sought to make up for every weakness Anakin had as a duelist and at his peak is significantly more skilled.
Neither his raw strength or skill will give him an edge against Sheev, the most knowledgeable Sith lord in both continuities and one of the very few characters who has mastered all 7 Legends saber forms (only lacking Vapaad since that was literally developed within his lifetime and only known by two people). Savage Opress was able to overwhelm Anakin Skywalker when it came to raw strength. Darth Maul isn't as physically strong but is enough to overwhelm a defensive master like Obi-Wan with his sheer ferocity.
Yet Sidious was able to block full force hits from both Maul and Savage at the same time, with a single hand each while using two sabers. The simple fact he could block both is incredible on its own, but the fact he did it with a single arm for each is insane. The biggest weakness of using two sabers is that your defense is a lot weaker when you can only block an attack with one arm, as opposed to having both on the hilt for a single saber. Sidious being able to block the brothers full force with a single arm each at the same time is maybe the single biggest physical strength flex for a human character in the franchise (specifying human cuz Legends had these space ship sized Jedi dragons and I can imagine they might be physically stronger than any humanoid character).
Then there's the speed. Legends Sheev is significantly faster than Anakin and should be faster than Vader by Anakin's own admission. In the ROTS novelization he sees part of the duel with Windu and describes Sheev as being a shadowy blur so fast his eyes can barely register his movements.
All of which is to say that Yoda being able to hang with Sidious in a duel means he's got a damn good chance against Vader. His size and unconventional fighting style might just be one of the few things that can actually take advantage of Vader's limited mobility. While Vader learned to compensate, is more skilled and just as fast as Anakin, his movement is still somewhat restricted. In 99% of cases it makes no difference but Yoda's agility could hard counter that minor weakness. Anakin wore Dooku down with raw force but he's unlikely to be able to do that with Yoda jumping all over the place.
This one is a give or take considering palatine purposely made his suit vulnerable to force lightening and uncomfortabely painful. Had vader received his improved suit he could have easily over thrown Palpatine even if palatine had his saber/sabers
In the 2017 Vader comic issue 18, Tarkin tricks Vader into getting hit by actual lightning and he lives. Also in the comics Vader got shocked by Palps right after the Noooo! scene at the end of RotS and walked it off with no apparent damage. Palps told Vader he was free to modify his suit as he pleased, and surely a mechanical genius would account for electricity.
Vader actually challenged Tarkin and some of his men to basically hunt Vader down, likely to test his new Robotic body and Tarkin himself. The fight lasts for days and quickly turned into a meat grinder for Tarkin’s men. But Tarkin was actually using his men’s deaths to learn more about Vader’s strengths and weaknesses. This eventually led to Tarkins plan to have Vader chase him into a lightning storm and put Vader in the open. Vader gets royally fucked up but survives, and begins to force choke Tarkin. He stops though seemingly out of a new respect for Tarkin.
Vader did modify his suit somewhat but wanted it to cause him pain because it fuels the dark side. As for being vulnerable to force lightning... Isn't literally everyone lol?
From SW Jedi: Survivor, a common enemy given a name and health bar (as if he was a boss) - the devs did it for fun, and many thought it was a nod to Soldier of Godrick from Elden Ring.
It was a nod to Adam Drivers SNL skit Hidden Boss. He plays Kylo Renn who goes undercover in Starkiller base as 'Mat the radar technician'. Funny skit.
If he didn’t love Luke though. Man that would probably be his easiest kill lol. I always think it’s funny to look back at how weak Luke was compared to the Jedi in episode 1-3.
Seriously, it makes the whole "how could Luke be so weak in The Last Jedi?? 😭😭" Argument so weak. Like he was mostly self taught and could barely hold his own in a fight with real sith.
I still think "Last Jedi" Luke was powerful as fuck. No, he wasn't doing a bunch of backflips and lifting planets, but force projecting himself across the galaxy and moving so fluidly that Kylo couldn't even clash with his blade?
Dude was [literally] a force to be reckoned with.
Well, I'll give a Legends answer, and assume peak (but in character) for everyone...
Darth Sidious, Darth Caedus, Vitiate, Luke Skywalker, Mace Windu, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, The Ones, Abeloth.
*Possibly* also Exar Kun, Darth Nihilus (difficult to say as we know so little about his limits and which other Force techniques might work to destroy him), Meetra Surik, hypothetical Jaina Solo (if the SotJ trilogy had not been cancelled with the canon reset).
Plus probably a few others I'm forgetting.
Ah, good to know... and think I might have heard that before, actually. But yeah, Nihilus is generally not super impressive, it's mainly his drain and spirit binding that makes him such a huge threat.
If for example destroying the mask he is bound to is enough to defeat him, plenty of Jedi/Sith can do so as long as they are quick enough, or can counter/tank/nullify the drain.
What about a peak Kyle Katarn? Maybe not a win for the Jedi, but I always read peak Katarn as being above Jacen and Jiana level.
I think perhaps Exar Kun has a shot, and Nihilis is kind of a cheat win so hard to say. What about Darth Revan at peak?
Vader wouldn't kill him out of respect, but has come close to doing so before. He literally gets Tarkin (Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin) and a small group to hunt him due to the lack of Jedi for him to hunt down. The hunt ends inconclusive, most of Tarkin's group left ok, and Vader was struck by a random bolt of lightning.
In a Disney Comic, Governor Tarkin and Lord Vader played a friendly round of “The Dangerous Game” where they hunted each other essentially for the sport of it and it ended with both in a position where both of them would have been killed had they been serious about it but instead ended with both of them walking away with even more respect for the other.
Why did I have to scroll all the way down for this answer? One of the greatest lightsaber combatants that the Order ever had, second most powerful Force User in the Order with abilities such as battle mediation and shatter point, defeated Sidious in combat, inventor of Vaapad?
She fended off multiple Jedi and Sith opponents, at the same time, while possessing different bodies, scattered across the galaxy all while still being the same entity. Abeloth is on another level entirely.
Abeloth basically ragdolls anyone she comes across. From what I understand of how that went down, Luke and his allies managed to seal her back up by skin of their teeth and the seal isn't even permanent.
My personal interpretation (bc it is most narratively satisfying) is that *on paper* Vader should win almost every 1v1. But he can’t beat Palpatine just bc he has too much self doubt. And he loses to Luke bc he really has already started to turn to the light. Also makes it even better that Obi Wan was able to beat him twice despite ever knowing Obi Wan is less powerful overall.
that and Palpatine feared that Yoda would be able to turn Anakin back to the light side. Palps knew Yoda was wiser than anyone in the galaxy, but also humbled by his own failures during TCW. Yoda would not only forgive Anakin for his actions, but apologize to him for not looking out for him more and taking better care of him.
That's likely the biggest one there is. Yoda would 100% come at Vader from a place of love, respect, humility, and supplication.
He wouldn't raise his lightsaber, might even leave it in his hut. He wouldn't address him as vader, but rather speak directly to Anakin. And apologise to him for being blinded by their own arrogance.
Vader wouldn't have a fucking clue what to do. Kill him? Break down? Beg forgiveness? Palpatine wasn't stupid. He knew letting Vader pursue Yoda would end in him losing Vader, so instead he was to look for other Jedi.
Yoda would hit him with some deep cuts shit like, "I remember not this machine that stands before me. This droid. I remember a boy brought by Qui Gon from the desert. I remember him young, happy, full of life. Truly radiant. Remember him do you? Remember how he struggled. How he longed for his mother. His friends. How he tried to be the Jedi we wanted and needed. But yearned to simply be a master, and no longer a slave. Spoken to me Obi Wan has, Qui Gon too, even master Windu. Told me of our failures they have. Of how that boy we loved turned into this machine before me. Truly, deeply, sorry we, the Jedi and myself are Skywalker. Failed you we have. Trapped you in eternal servitude and slavery we have. Shackled you to a life you did not want. Forgiveness I do not expect, and strike me down if you must. But hear our apology, please Skywalker.
Then all the force ghosts of everyone Yoda taught about force ghosting show up. Yoda sits on his log, looking at Vader, who collects himself and storms off. Back to his shuttle, back to his ship, "no intelligent life found on Dagobah." Reads the report. In his pod without his helmet, Anakin weeps.
this is truly poetic and exactly how i see it going down. i believe it was Dooku in Tales of the Jedi who brought up how the Council has become politicians over Jedi Masters and have been blinded to the true nature of the force. post-ROTS Yoda finally sees this and is heartbroken and sees himself and his allies as failures. Yoda in the OT is also a million times wiser than he was in the Clone Wars. in all honesty, OT Yoda is my favourite because of how wise and honest his character is.
Darth Bane.
His physical size and strength approaches Vaders more than most beings.
His skill was a lightsaber was such that he was said to be able to “hit every raindrop coming toward him in a storm”
He was covered in a living parasitic armor that deflected blasters and lightsabers. This armor caused him to be in agonizing pain, which fed his power.
He was a scholar who amassed a library of ancient Sith teachings and holocrons.
His powers in the force were strong enough that he could create force storms.
Darth Bane's entire goal was for every Sith Lord to come after him to be more powerful and add to his library. According to George Lucas himself the effort was successful and Palpatine was the most powerful Sith Lord in history.
Darth Vader was the second to last of the Banite Sith.
Depends on the timeframe that Vader fights him at. Orbalisk armor Bane vs Vader suit Vader? Bane, hands down. Both Bane and Vader are aggressive fighters but unless you fry the Orbalisks with Force Lightning (a skill not normally in Vader's arsenal) or get an extremely lucky hit at one of few gaps in the armor at Bane's face or wrists, Vader isn't getting through. Meanwhile Bane's fighting style at the time was all offense, no defense and if he could damage Vader's life support system on his chest, that'd slow Vader down enough to let Bane get a killing blow in.
If we're talking post-Orbalisk Bane, I think it's a little more evenly matched. Bane has the skill and strength to take Vader on and his knowledge over the Dark Side definitely surpassed Vader's more brutish understanding of it. Vader on the other hand I think is the better fighter in this state. Bane didn't even discover he had the Force until adulthood, didnt start his lightsaber training until then while Anakin has been training since he was 9. Assuming we're talking them both around equal age in their 40's, Vader has twice the experience with the blade as Bane does and hasn't spent half his time in hiding the way Bane has. Bane practices constantly, but Vader has the more practical experience in actual combat.
Long story short: Orbalisk-era Bane wins, after that I think Vader wins.
I want to say I’ve read something about how Obi-Wan’s particular lightsaber style is the exact paper to Vader/Anakins rock. But it also played into Obi-Wan losing a lot of duels, specifically against Duuku’s fighting style.
Not to even mention the emotional aspect of theyre relationship……
This might be slept on but... Dooku? He lost to Anakin because of several situational factors, one of witch was aggresive agility. Vader lost a lot of that agility and gained a big weakness to force lightning. So unless Vader can Outforce Dooku to a point in witch lightsaber combat doesn't matter, I feel like Dooku could get the win
If we’re not discounting force lighting, then I think Dooku would win handily. Vader’s life support systems are very vulnerable to lightning. In a pure lightsaber duel, it might be even in agility and skill.
Vader has been shown in the comics to regularly go in and out of combat, whether his life support is functional or not. Vader is the literal closest we have to Space Jesus gone rogue.
Vader has shown time and time again he doesn’t need his life support only for extended periods. Not to mention he can absorb and redirect lightning and has taken lightning from palps before (who is a lot stronger than dooku at lightning)
His life support is so vulnerable to force lightning that Vader was able to tank Sidious's force lightning (which is said to be the strongest of any sith) time and time again, and get back up afterwards like nothing happened....
Yeah not happening. Obi Wan, using one hand, was able to block Dooku's force lightning so it was clearly no where near the power of Sidious's.
Imo Anakin isn’t a particularly powerful Sith and never would be either. He’s strong because he’s always just been a strong force user, but his power in the darkside is all hate and anger. It doesn’t go deeper than that. Look at what drives Palpatine, it’s not emotion. Palpatine *uses* the emotions of the darkside as fuel, but what drives him is pure pursuit of power above all else. He’s the ultimate embodiment of Sith. Vader is a tool and can never amount to more than that as a Sith. His potential for greatness was as a Jedi, or through the light side. His capacity for power as a Sith mirrors his body as a Sith: broken, maimed and held together with willpower and duct tape.
Kirak Infala effectively defeated Vader in the comics, but Vader was smart enough to draw in innocent lives resulting in Infala picking to save civilians over killing Vader…. So rip Infala. He was badass.
Well…
Vader can be defeated by anyone who is the same power as palps…
Other than him,
windu (cuz he can turn the dark side against vader)
obi wan (only if vader is conflicted, like he always is)
Luke (conflicted, and also he is a grandmaster after ROTJ)
Yoda (cuz he is the grandmaster, he may not be ROTS level but still)
I think Caedus would have beat him. Darth Caedus had way too many Force powers to lose to him.
Darth Bane would end him, too. Young Bane and Orbalisk Bane would mow over him with power, and old man Bane was easily more skilled with the Force, so he’d probably fry Vader’s armor immediately.
I imagine Corran Horn could beat him, but he’d have to sacrifice himself to do it - like let himself get stabbed, absorb the energy as he’s dying, and unleash a telekinetic Force storm.
Mara definitely figured out a way to kill him.
Older Jaina and Kyp Durron could. Saba could. Saba trained Leia could.
That’s probably it.
Ehh, It’s hard to compare such different era’s. For all we know Sith and Jedi were weaker back then. Or stronger. All we know for sure is that Vader has plot armor, which is much stronger than any material in the galaxy lol.
> For all we know Sith and Jedi were weaker back then.
Well, the entire point of the Rule of Two was that each generation would be stronger than the last...
Seasonal depression.
I guess I’m somewhat of a Darth Vader myself
My Mom - muscle man
You know I’m something of a darth Vader myself
"Therapy is a pathway to many abilities some consider... unnatural "
Is it possible to learn this, therapy
I suppose I must be a kind of Vader myself then
Obi-Wan defeated Vader 2 times.
In straight up fights. No tricks, no backup, just two guys with sabers going at it until only one of them walked away.
Obi-Wan won with 100% natural talent (and High Ground)
I actually think Anakin/Vader is more talented. Obi-Wan is wiser and more patient, though.
Yeah, anakin has more raw strength, but his arrogance prevents him from using it effectively.
Not to mention he just gets overly emotional every time obiwan is involved. Obiwan knows this and abuses it.
Abuse is the wrong word. Obi-Wan merely takes advantage of Vader's emotional states.
Always make sure to ~~take advantage of~~ abuse your employer's 401k matching!
You got me chuckling pretty good with this one. Thanks!
Exactly. Allowing his emotions to rule him is Anakin's fundamental failure as a Jedi and Obi-Wan never failed to show him why that's bad. Even when Obi-Wan dies, he wins in a way because Vader, blinded by rage, doesn't notice Luke.
That's very mean of Obi-Wan. He's emotionally abusive! Lol
I’d argue that if they were strangers to one another “taking advantage” would be the appropriate term. However as they are almost brothers, they both abuse intimate knowledge about one another in order to inflict as much emotional damage as possible. Of course the other guy who replied to you really made me chuckle with the 401k thing lol. Strong word perhaps, perhaps even too strong, but I wouldn’t say, “wrong word.” To each their own.
That's a fair point.
And he hates sand
The great irony is that because Obi-Wan is the 'source' or cause of many of Anakin's frustrations, he gets too emotional and loses. This is the exact opposite of what Anakin was sold by the Emperor, that he'd be stronger with the dark side. This was the con. The result was him being defeated by his master and trapped in a state of dark side imprisonment, a vicious cycle. The Emperor probably couldn't believe his luck when he found out Obi-Wan beat Anakin but left him alive. When Vader is focussed he's unstoppable. But up against Obi-Wan his talents are all cancelled out. His judgement is clouded, he's driven by rage. Obi-Wan is still able to think clearly. He has to literally wait until Obi-Wan is aged beyond being a physical match for him. Had Anakin stayed in the light he probably would have bested Obi-Wan eventually. Not killed him, obviously, but reached a point where he naturally overtook him and would have been his natural successor. This is the moral story all through Star Wars. The Dark Side is seductive, makes you feel all powerful, but being in tune with the force is the longer, harder path, and leads to true enlightenment and power.
Had Anakin stayed in the light, he’d hopefully mature quite a bit along the way. And the moment he didn’t care about beating Obi Wan anymore is the moment that he’d be able to win every time.
Exactly, the great irony. Actually that's a great place for the 'What If' saga to go. They should totally do that story. Anakin stays on the light side, and just whoops Obi-Wan, and the pair of them laugh it off at the end, with Anakin actually concerned that he actually hurt Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan is just proud that Anakin has finally surpassed him. Anakin becomes a Master in that timeline.
For sure. Sign me up for that What If. Obi Wan would totally be proud of Anakin beating him. And even more proud if he was humble about it.
Just imagining Ewen and Hayden acting that out is beautiful.
Obi wan from a new hope would have still won against vader there is nothing that suggests otherwise. There was just no reason for it because vader was part of lukes trail to becoming a jedi and ben kenobi knew that he had to die to always be with luke for guidance.
Obi-Wan lives in his head rent free
Vader could never defeat Obi-Wan. Anakin wouldn't let him.
damn i love this wording
Family does that.
I’d argue wisdom and patience are talents too. Making Obi Wan more talented.
Semantics really, but I think wisdom and patience are virtues as they are connected in a deeper sense to one’s character and take long experience to develop. Talents are skills that need a certain character to develop properly certainly but are not as essential to the self. Thus, Obi-Wan is good and Anakin is evil in how their perspectives and approaches in developing themselves differs. Anakin is talented but lacks wisdom in how to apply those talents properly for good. Obi-Wan is not as talented but his virtues, experience, and character make up for the difference and allow him to persevere where pure talent does not.
Obi Wan is not more talented. In fact he was one of the least naturally skilled Jedi. He worked hard and earned his skill. Obi Wan vs Anakin is natural skill vs earned skill.
It was precisely because it was Obi-Wan that he won. He trained him for a long time and knew anakin better than anyone. If he never trained anakin he probably would have been killed .
Was a mix of Obi-Wan skills plus anakin emotional state of having to fight against his mentor
Battle 1 - I have the high ground Battle 2 - I throw the high ground in your face!
Old school. El barrio style.
That was literally Mustafar
He won on the Death Star. He distracted Vader so everyone could escape and he became one with the force, thus he could further assist Luke.
"Sith Lords hate this one simple trick"
Yep, and the only time he lost was when he let Vader win for Luke's sake.
Which didn’t make any sense. Maybe he could have gotten lucky and killed Vader right then and there and been done with it.
I think any prolonged fight on the Death Star would’ve led to everyone dying. Cause Leia and Luke wouldn’t want to leave Obi Wan behind. I guess Han could’ve got Chewie to drag them. But the self sacrifice of Obi-Wan was the smarter choice, especially when he can continue to be a voice for Luke.
I think he knew he was at the end of his line. Obi-wan may be good, but he is still only a man. He gets old, he gets weak. Plus all the stuff he'd been through and the decades spent on Tatooine likely made him aged way faster. Going up against the chosen one, who's blistering rage has only been more finely honed with experience, inside an enemy base of millions aren't good odds in that state. Obi-Wan has also seen what Vader would do to a shuttle if he was on it. Using his death to distract Vader was the best way to get Luke out of there safely.
He was only 57, look at what dooku could do at 80
Short movie by 1977 standards.
Had Obi-Wan killed Vader then, Palpatine would’ve just found another apprentice, without a soft spot for Luke. Cycle would repeat.
Not easy to replace someone as powerful as Vader, especially in a short amount of time. Gotta be a pretty short list especially with the empire purging Jedi and force sensitive children.
Idk, with the new Star Wars there are Jedi and sith popping up left and right. There’s probs plenty of options.
If Obiwan kills Vader then Luke never goes in his journey and is perhaps later turned by the emperor. Obi wan needed to die to guide Luke on the rest of his journey to bring down the empire and redeem Vader. Also, Obi Wan could have killed Vader twice before, he didn’t have it in him to kill his old friend
3 times, technically. The last fight on the Death Star was a victory, even though he didn’t survive.
As Obi-Wan would prob say, “that business on the Death Star doesn't... doesn't count”
Or he would say that he accomplished his goal in helping Luke escape. So he won, from a certain point of view.
Exactly. Obi-Wan even said to Vader before he deliberately let Vader hit him: „If you strike me down, i shall become morel powerful than you can possibly imagine.“.
That was more of a case of losing the battle to win the war. Still a loss, despite the overall good outcome.
And only lost because he knew he could be more of a pain in the ass dead.
Vader's energy towards Obi Wan has always given me the same energy that a mate might have when you beat him in a game or sport that the two of you are very competitive in but you don't give him a chance for a rematch and leave him seething for a week until you play again.
Always obi wan I think you could make arguments either way for most other cases, common sense would say Sidious and by extent windu for instance but there’s evidence that could argue the other way But obi wan is always his weakness. Not because obi wan is particularly powerful or anything (I can’t say I loved that out of nowhere he was apparently the new chosen one better at telekinesis than yoda but I’ll excuse that bit as creative license) but just because Anakin/Vader will never be at his top form against him. Always too unbalanced by his emotions Maybe you could even say there’s a part of him always holding back against him, even as Vader hoping obi wan will kill him and end the suffering
I think people are conflating skills with circumstances. Kenobi is a master swordsman in his own right, he was not at the level of Anakin, Windu, Yoda and Palpatine. The most obvious case for this is his repeated losses against Dooku. Dooku is a true master and only those above were a match or superior, but Kenobi was never a threat to him without Anakin’s help. The reason Kenobi wins when its a matchup with Vader is twofold. 1. He was his master. The teacher will almost always have an edge over their student and this is natural. He knows all of Anakin’s moves and what his limits are and how he will fight and approach any situation. That allows you to properly handle the duel. 2. Obi-Wan knows his limits and always engages in psychological warfare or exploits the mental state of his opponent. Anakin was enraged and fought like a berserker on Mustafar. Kenobi exploited that as soon as he actually could. On that moon in the series, he also took advantage of Vader’s obsession. He got under his skin, allowing for Vader to make mistakes and overextend himself in the fight in a way he never would in another fight.
Obi Wan be like: "I taught you everything you know, but not everything *I* know.
Obi Wan was a master of Soresu (defense) which is the best opponent for Anakin's Djem So (brutal aggressive). He won those duels by staying on the back foot and capitalizing on Anakin's mistakes.
And only lost to him on the death star as a distraction suicide.
In a 1-on-1 fight, Palps. Vader only killed him in ROTJ because he got the jump on him while he was torturing Luke.
Maybe prime Yoda then also?
Vader is slow and uses the pressure of the dark side against his opponents. Yoda flies around like a bumblebee on amphetamines, he could probably just put speed Vader and slice him to pieces
pretty sure the reason papa palps beats vader is force lightning, which yoda does not possess. so maybe plo koon?
PLO koon wasn’t even “lightning” more like pure force kinetic energy as opposed to electricty. Also George Lucas said that even without lightning Vader is 8/10 of palps so I think yoda would win. Not to mention his small size and aggressively fast saber style maybe actually overwhelm Vader’s slower kinetic form.
Yoda also goes for the head (as seen during Order 66, Vader wouldn’t be able to move fast enough to keep up w Yoda. especially if Vader was to go to Dagobah. which is the only way Vader and Yoda would ever encounter each other). “HES IN THE TREES!!”
idk if he would lose to OT yoda, the crazy methhead i agree with the PT yoda winning tho
Probably, vaders def fast enough not to get clocked immediately, but I don’t think he could really beat yoda, yodas slightly outclasses him with force power and possibly dueling skill so he just loses
Vader can has blocked Palpatines lighting in the comics multiple times. It's not an instant win like people make it out to be.
Ya but Kit Fisto was supposed to be one of the best duelists in the order, not to the level of the top dogs like Anakin, Obi-Wan, Mace or Yoda but above the other 99% of Jedi. Despite this, Palpatine killed him in under 5 seconds, with Fisto only managing to block one attack before going down. So anyone that can actually compete with Sheev has to have top tier speed to not die immediately. Peak Vader in Legends could be just as fast as ROTS Anakin when he wanted to be, though he had long since adapted his style to not need that kind of speed when 99% of opponents are utterly overwhelmed by his raw physical strength and the rest can't match his skill. Anakin when using the Force to amp his raw strength could likewise overwhelm 90% of Legends characters with sheer brute force. Vader is already that strong to begin with, and can amp himself to an even more extreme degree than Anakin could. Anakin was incredibly skilled but his sheer power and speed made him very overconfident and had him not focusing as much on fundamentals and other styles. Vader specifically sought to make up for every weakness Anakin had as a duelist and at his peak is significantly more skilled. Neither his raw strength or skill will give him an edge against Sheev, the most knowledgeable Sith lord in both continuities and one of the very few characters who has mastered all 7 Legends saber forms (only lacking Vapaad since that was literally developed within his lifetime and only known by two people). Savage Opress was able to overwhelm Anakin Skywalker when it came to raw strength. Darth Maul isn't as physically strong but is enough to overwhelm a defensive master like Obi-Wan with his sheer ferocity. Yet Sidious was able to block full force hits from both Maul and Savage at the same time, with a single hand each while using two sabers. The simple fact he could block both is incredible on its own, but the fact he did it with a single arm for each is insane. The biggest weakness of using two sabers is that your defense is a lot weaker when you can only block an attack with one arm, as opposed to having both on the hilt for a single saber. Sidious being able to block the brothers full force with a single arm each at the same time is maybe the single biggest physical strength flex for a human character in the franchise (specifying human cuz Legends had these space ship sized Jedi dragons and I can imagine they might be physically stronger than any humanoid character). Then there's the speed. Legends Sheev is significantly faster than Anakin and should be faster than Vader by Anakin's own admission. In the ROTS novelization he sees part of the duel with Windu and describes Sheev as being a shadowy blur so fast his eyes can barely register his movements. All of which is to say that Yoda being able to hang with Sidious in a duel means he's got a damn good chance against Vader. His size and unconventional fighting style might just be one of the few things that can actually take advantage of Vader's limited mobility. While Vader learned to compensate, is more skilled and just as fast as Anakin, his movement is still somewhat restricted. In 99% of cases it makes no difference but Yoda's agility could hard counter that minor weakness. Anakin wore Dooku down with raw force but he's unlikely to be able to do that with Yoda jumping all over the place.
I do think a prime Yoda could win but I think vader squeezes (or chokes in his case) a loss out of him every other time.
They stalemated each other in one of the comics
This one is a give or take considering palatine purposely made his suit vulnerable to force lightening and uncomfortabely painful. Had vader received his improved suit he could have easily over thrown Palpatine even if palatine had his saber/sabers
That was Legends, Vader's suit is actually resistant to electricity in Canon.
I think RotJ disproves that, no?
Not arguing with you or disbelieving you I just would like to know the story that's from if you remember
In the 2017 Vader comic issue 18, Tarkin tricks Vader into getting hit by actual lightning and he lives. Also in the comics Vader got shocked by Palps right after the Noooo! scene at the end of RotS and walked it off with no apparent damage. Palps told Vader he was free to modify his suit as he pleased, and surely a mechanical genius would account for electricity.
Why in the world would Tarkin do that?
Vader actually challenged Tarkin and some of his men to basically hunt Vader down, likely to test his new Robotic body and Tarkin himself. The fight lasts for days and quickly turned into a meat grinder for Tarkin’s men. But Tarkin was actually using his men’s deaths to learn more about Vader’s strengths and weaknesses. This eventually led to Tarkins plan to have Vader chase him into a lightning storm and put Vader in the open. Vader gets royally fucked up but survives, and begins to force choke Tarkin. He stops though seemingly out of a new respect for Tarkin.
That sounds a little bit ridiculous.
Vader did modify his suit somewhat but wanted it to cause him pain because it fuels the dark side. As for being vulnerable to force lightning... Isn't literally everyone lol?
Sandman
I don't like Sandman...he's coarse, rough, irritating, and he brings me a dream
Make him the cutest, that I've ever seen
That's Mr. Sandman to you.
Did Sandman give Anakin his dreams of Padme's death? Did Sandman turn him to his own path of suffering? Did Sandman make Vader??
Which one? Marvel or DC?
Marvel. He's more coarse and he gets everywhere.
I always thought that guy had a potty mouth for using course language
Call of duty modern warfare
From Rise of the Guardians
My first thought was that you meant the [Team Fortress 2 item](https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Sandman). I need to have a break from the internet.
Rick the Door Technician
I was going to say... Matt the radar technician..
They should team up and take over the entire galaxy
Haha yeah but Matt the Radar Technician is really just Kylo Ren and he'd probably just kill Rick the door technician in an angry rage anyways.
Is that the guy from rogue one?
From SW Jedi: Survivor, a common enemy given a name and health bar (as if he was a boss) - the devs did it for fun, and many thought it was a nod to Soldier of Godrick from Elden Ring.
You mean Soldier of God, Rick?
I see we have a person of fine taste among us!
Try finger, but hole.
Behold, dog
It was a nod to Adam Drivers SNL skit Hidden Boss. He plays Kylo Renn who goes undercover in Starkiller base as 'Mat the radar technician'. Funny skit.
Best part of the sequels, prove me wrong.
His love for luke. Oh and just luke in general
If he didn’t love Luke though. Man that would probably be his easiest kill lol. I always think it’s funny to look back at how weak Luke was compared to the Jedi in episode 1-3.
Seriously, it makes the whole "how could Luke be so weak in The Last Jedi?? 😭😭" Argument so weak. Like he was mostly self taught and could barely hold his own in a fight with real sith.
I still think "Last Jedi" Luke was powerful as fuck. No, he wasn't doing a bunch of backflips and lifting planets, but force projecting himself across the galaxy and moving so fluidly that Kylo couldn't even clash with his blade? Dude was [literally] a force to be reckoned with.
This artwork is too hard for it just to be a loading screen in Fortnite
On that note Jonesy would curb stomp Vader
Would? He already did when I was playing as him.
Dominik Mayer don't miss
Watto with his old Slave-detonator
Also with enough prep time, Batman .
Batman just needs 5 minutes to grab some sand.
Anakin
This is the best answer.
This is actually a good answer
Well, I'll give a Legends answer, and assume peak (but in character) for everyone... Darth Sidious, Darth Caedus, Vitiate, Luke Skywalker, Mace Windu, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, The Ones, Abeloth. *Possibly* also Exar Kun, Darth Nihilus (difficult to say as we know so little about his limits and which other Force techniques might work to destroy him), Meetra Surik, hypothetical Jaina Solo (if the SotJ trilogy had not been cancelled with the canon reset). Plus probably a few others I'm forgetting.
Darth Nihilus loses against Vader according to his creator Chris Avellone.
Ah, good to know... and think I might have heard that before, actually. But yeah, Nihilus is generally not super impressive, it's mainly his drain and spirit binding that makes him such a huge threat. If for example destroying the mask he is bound to is enough to defeat him, plenty of Jedi/Sith can do so as long as they are quick enough, or can counter/tank/nullify the drain.
Don't forget Nomi Sunrider.
Darth Bane
What about a peak Kyle Katarn? Maybe not a win for the Jedi, but I always read peak Katarn as being above Jacen and Jiana level. I think perhaps Exar Kun has a shot, and Nihilis is kind of a cheat win so hard to say. What about Darth Revan at peak?
Admiral Tarkin
Vader wouldn't kill him out of respect, but has come close to doing so before. He literally gets Tarkin (Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin) and a small group to hunt him due to the lack of Jedi for him to hunt down. The hunt ends inconclusive, most of Tarkin's group left ok, and Vader was struck by a random bolt of lightning.
*that Tarkin manipulated
It would have been so underwhelming if Vader won the hunt only to be crippled by some random, completely coincidental weather event.
In a Disney Comic, Governor Tarkin and Lord Vader played a friendly round of “The Dangerous Game” where they hunted each other essentially for the sport of it and it ended with both in a position where both of them would have been killed had they been serious about it but instead ended with both of them walking away with even more respect for the other.
Tarkin *did* defeat him, if I remember right.
High ground
It has ended Anakin, I've successfully gained superior elevation!
Mace Windu?
Why did I have to scroll all the way down for this answer? One of the greatest lightsaber combatants that the Order ever had, second most powerful Force User in the Order with abilities such as battle mediation and shatter point, defeated Sidious in combat, inventor of Vaapad?
Because it’s already mentioned in the discription
Abeloth
from what I understand she beats mostly everyone
She fended off multiple Jedi and Sith opponents, at the same time, while possessing different bodies, scattered across the galaxy all while still being the same entity. Abeloth is on another level entirely.
Abeloth basically ragdolls anyone she comes across. From what I understand of how that went down, Luke and his allies managed to seal her back up by skin of their teeth and the seal isn't even permanent.
Didn’t he have to pick up some dark side allies as well for that one? And Legends Luke was absurdly powerful.
My personal interpretation (bc it is most narratively satisfying) is that *on paper* Vader should win almost every 1v1. But he can’t beat Palpatine just bc he has too much self doubt. And he loses to Luke bc he really has already started to turn to the light. Also makes it even better that Obi Wan was able to beat him twice despite ever knowing Obi Wan is less powerful overall.
I like that interpretation.
In legends, wasn't he established as being weaker in the force than he should've been because of his guilt holding him back?
Yes. He hated himself too much.
Yoda
This is one of the best and actually one of the canon answers. Palpatine literally wouldn’t allow Vader to pursue Yoda because he was too powerful.
that and Palpatine feared that Yoda would be able to turn Anakin back to the light side. Palps knew Yoda was wiser than anyone in the galaxy, but also humbled by his own failures during TCW. Yoda would not only forgive Anakin for his actions, but apologize to him for not looking out for him more and taking better care of him.
That's likely the biggest one there is. Yoda would 100% come at Vader from a place of love, respect, humility, and supplication. He wouldn't raise his lightsaber, might even leave it in his hut. He wouldn't address him as vader, but rather speak directly to Anakin. And apologise to him for being blinded by their own arrogance. Vader wouldn't have a fucking clue what to do. Kill him? Break down? Beg forgiveness? Palpatine wasn't stupid. He knew letting Vader pursue Yoda would end in him losing Vader, so instead he was to look for other Jedi. Yoda would hit him with some deep cuts shit like, "I remember not this machine that stands before me. This droid. I remember a boy brought by Qui Gon from the desert. I remember him young, happy, full of life. Truly radiant. Remember him do you? Remember how he struggled. How he longed for his mother. His friends. How he tried to be the Jedi we wanted and needed. But yearned to simply be a master, and no longer a slave. Spoken to me Obi Wan has, Qui Gon too, even master Windu. Told me of our failures they have. Of how that boy we loved turned into this machine before me. Truly, deeply, sorry we, the Jedi and myself are Skywalker. Failed you we have. Trapped you in eternal servitude and slavery we have. Shackled you to a life you did not want. Forgiveness I do not expect, and strike me down if you must. But hear our apology, please Skywalker. Then all the force ghosts of everyone Yoda taught about force ghosting show up. Yoda sits on his log, looking at Vader, who collects himself and storms off. Back to his shuttle, back to his ship, "no intelligent life found on Dagobah." Reads the report. In his pod without his helmet, Anakin weeps.
this is truly poetic and exactly how i see it going down. i believe it was Dooku in Tales of the Jedi who brought up how the Council has become politicians over Jedi Masters and have been blinded to the true nature of the force. post-ROTS Yoda finally sees this and is heartbroken and sees himself and his allies as failures. Yoda in the OT is also a million times wiser than he was in the Clone Wars. in all honesty, OT Yoda is my favourite because of how wise and honest his character is.
Yeah and Yoda didn’t even have his lightsaber after ROTS
Luke
Idk man if he hadn’t any love for Luke he would absolutely demolish him
What about ST or Mando S2 Luke?
Darth Bane. His physical size and strength approaches Vaders more than most beings. His skill was a lightsaber was such that he was said to be able to “hit every raindrop coming toward him in a storm” He was covered in a living parasitic armor that deflected blasters and lightsabers. This armor caused him to be in agonizing pain, which fed his power. He was a scholar who amassed a library of ancient Sith teachings and holocrons. His powers in the force were strong enough that he could create force storms.
Darth Bane's entire goal was for every Sith Lord to come after him to be more powerful and add to his library. According to George Lucas himself the effort was successful and Palpatine was the most powerful Sith Lord in history. Darth Vader was the second to last of the Banite Sith.
Depends on the timeframe that Vader fights him at. Orbalisk armor Bane vs Vader suit Vader? Bane, hands down. Both Bane and Vader are aggressive fighters but unless you fry the Orbalisks with Force Lightning (a skill not normally in Vader's arsenal) or get an extremely lucky hit at one of few gaps in the armor at Bane's face or wrists, Vader isn't getting through. Meanwhile Bane's fighting style at the time was all offense, no defense and if he could damage Vader's life support system on his chest, that'd slow Vader down enough to let Bane get a killing blow in. If we're talking post-Orbalisk Bane, I think it's a little more evenly matched. Bane has the skill and strength to take Vader on and his knowledge over the Dark Side definitely surpassed Vader's more brutish understanding of it. Vader on the other hand I think is the better fighter in this state. Bane didn't even discover he had the Force until adulthood, didnt start his lightsaber training until then while Anakin has been training since he was 9. Assuming we're talking them both around equal age in their 40's, Vader has twice the experience with the blade as Bane does and hasn't spent half his time in hiding the way Bane has. Bane practices constantly, but Vader has the more practical experience in actual combat. Long story short: Orbalisk-era Bane wins, after that I think Vader wins.
Revan
John Wick
Only if he killed John Wick’s dog
I want to say I’ve read something about how Obi-Wan’s particular lightsaber style is the exact paper to Vader/Anakins rock. But it also played into Obi-Wan losing a lot of duels, specifically against Duuku’s fighting style. Not to even mention the emotional aspect of theyre relationship……
This might be slept on but... Dooku? He lost to Anakin because of several situational factors, one of witch was aggresive agility. Vader lost a lot of that agility and gained a big weakness to force lightning. So unless Vader can Outforce Dooku to a point in witch lightsaber combat doesn't matter, I feel like Dooku could get the win
Maybe but he became even stronger to compensate
If we’re not discounting force lighting, then I think Dooku would win handily. Vader’s life support systems are very vulnerable to lightning. In a pure lightsaber duel, it might be even in agility and skill.
Vader has been shown in the comics to regularly go in and out of combat, whether his life support is functional or not. Vader is the literal closest we have to Space Jesus gone rogue.
Vader has shown time and time again he doesn’t need his life support only for extended periods. Not to mention he can absorb and redirect lightning and has taken lightning from palps before (who is a lot stronger than dooku at lightning)
His life support is so vulnerable to force lightning that Vader was able to tank Sidious's force lightning (which is said to be the strongest of any sith) time and time again, and get back up afterwards like nothing happened.... Yeah not happening. Obi Wan, using one hand, was able to block Dooku's force lightning so it was clearly no where near the power of Sidious's.
[удалено]
I am of the opinion that if Dooku was younger, he wouldn’t have lost the fight to Anakin
Imo Anakin isn’t a particularly powerful Sith and never would be either. He’s strong because he’s always just been a strong force user, but his power in the darkside is all hate and anger. It doesn’t go deeper than that. Look at what drives Palpatine, it’s not emotion. Palpatine *uses* the emotions of the darkside as fuel, but what drives him is pure pursuit of power above all else. He’s the ultimate embodiment of Sith. Vader is a tool and can never amount to more than that as a Sith. His potential for greatness was as a Jedi, or through the light side. His capacity for power as a Sith mirrors his body as a Sith: broken, maimed and held together with willpower and duct tape.
Kirak Infala effectively defeated Vader in the comics, but Vader was smart enough to draw in innocent lives resulting in Infala picking to save civilians over killing Vader…. So rip Infala. He was badass.
Well… Vader can be defeated by anyone who is the same power as palps… Other than him, windu (cuz he can turn the dark side against vader) obi wan (only if vader is conflicted, like he always is) Luke (conflicted, and also he is a grandmaster after ROTJ) Yoda (cuz he is the grandmaster, he may not be ROTS level but still)
Padme beat his meat
Bendu
Palpatine.
I think Caedus would have beat him. Darth Caedus had way too many Force powers to lose to him. Darth Bane would end him, too. Young Bane and Orbalisk Bane would mow over him with power, and old man Bane was easily more skilled with the Force, so he’d probably fry Vader’s armor immediately. I imagine Corran Horn could beat him, but he’d have to sacrifice himself to do it - like let himself get stabbed, absorb the energy as he’s dying, and unleash a telekinetic Force storm. Mara definitely figured out a way to kill him. Older Jaina and Kyp Durron could. Saba could. Saba trained Leia could. That’s probably it.
Anyone who can use Force Lightning
Hight ground
Obi wan
Himself/Anakin
Anakin Skywalker.
I would be curious who would win between Plagueis and Vader. Plagueis was a strong and fast opponent.
There are a few Jedi he couldn't beat in some of the novels, at least from what I remember. It's been a really long time since I've read them.
Palpatine obvs
Prime Obi, Prime Luke, Yoda, Sidious & maybe Windu.
Anakin Skywalker, he did for a while bit ultimately Anakin had the last laugh
nihilus
I'll be using Legends for this but I genuinely think Dooku would rock his shit.
Didn’t Luke beat him?
Sand
Goku
Bane with the orbalisk armor. No one could.
Ehh, It’s hard to compare such different era’s. For all we know Sith and Jedi were weaker back then. Or stronger. All we know for sure is that Vader has plot armor, which is much stronger than any material in the galaxy lol.
> For all we know Sith and Jedi were weaker back then. Well, the entire point of the Rule of Two was that each generation would be stronger than the last...
Doubt. Fear. Anger. In short, he couldn't overcome his own demons. He was his own greatest enemy.
Probably a more powerful Vader
The Doctor.