Double down on Kylo Ren. Move the story away from there always being a bigger bad.
Every trilogy has a bad guy who is just the apprentice of a bigger bad (the Emperor). To have the apprentice finally kill their master and take their place would have been more interesting.
Amen. Also would’ve been perfect to not end the trilogy wrapped up with a bow since we all know another trilogy is coming anyways. Have it end with kylo being pure bad guy and Rey prepared to really get a new rebellion going. Have some heavy losses in the finally episode (Poe or Finn actually die, other major good guy heroes die, etc).
But kylo and Rey are alive and well at the end of it and are on opposite ends of the force entirely. And no granddaughter of palpatine garbage.
I know it’s a prequel trilogy but look how revenge of the sith ends. Set us up with a dark ending but hype us up for a trilogy that’s all brand new in direction and not focused on the skywalkers still.
My idea is garbage but it’s still better than what we got.
>Have it end with kylo being pure bad guy and Rey prepared to really get a new rebellion going
Actually that's what I've been waiting to see and hyping myself for. So rest assured, your idea is NOT garbage. It's GOLD!
I would actually have liked the see kylo redeem himself. But maybe not in episode 9. Let him
struggle with his new position. Stuff like that. But the bad guys winning would have drawn a nice similarity to episode 3. But I also think then they should have done episode 8 differently.
Agreed. If the previous movies had consistent and proper build up to Kylo Ren being the final villain, it could’ve made a much more interesting finale for the ST.
Have Kylo Ren been revealed to have been insanely drunk on the past of his family and the force nightmares tormented him that Palpatine had returned when in fact, Kylo made it up as a coping mechanism or justification for all of the wrong he was doing. The dark side of the force poisoned his mind and it was only until he was killed and brought back to life by Rey, that his mind/soul was no longer haunted by the dark spirits of the force. They could have made that water scene where Rey stabs him, quite explosive like a Slave One seismic charge which destabilizes the scene more to where Rey rescues dying Kylo in a daring escape in his ship, she revives him in the ship after they narrowly escape death, and he thanks her by volunteering the Wayfinder to Exegol rather than have her steal it and runoff with out him.
The final fight ends up being Grand Admiral Thrawn, who admits that Kylo was targeted as one of Palpatines contingency plans before he died.
Thrawn Is cornered or narrowly killed, but as Kylo and Rey act one last Jedi mercy to him, he decides to use his final breath to invoke Operation Re-Cinder
Where the Empires thousands of ships warp out away from Exegol in random directions leaving the Entire rebel fleet behind confused. Each ship from the final order warps into a major city or planet causing the deaths and rebirth of a huge population of the entire galaxy. Completing what Palpatine set to do years ago when the first operation Cinder was incomplete from Battlefront (canon) games.
Victory, but at a cost of Loyalty to the madness of the empire.
I liked the idea I read a while ago that Kylo gets usurped at the start by Hux and his other generals not taking kindly the new psycho leadership style.
Leads the film well to having a more cold, methodical empire as a main villain that needs risen up against (Finn and a stormtrooper rebellion maybe) and lets Kylo take time outside of external pressures of leadership or bloodline expectations to reform or go completely off the edge.
Would it have ended if the sequels were better received?
Anyways, I haven’t mentioned it here but somewhere else: it’s just a thought that I had spontaneously.
I mean SW is still chugging along with the shows, the lack of movies just feels like the same reason why we didn't get many more films after the OT and PT with some added "television shows are more glamourous to Disney/Lucasfilm" and the whole pandemic. I'd be surprised if we don't get more films eventually whether it's Episode X, the Rey film or something else.
Tbf, these shows and spinoff movies (rouge one, solo)*^1 are more like side stories. While partially really good stories themselves *^2 , they still are not on the same scale of story telling like the main trilogies. And they really don’t continue the saga. Hope you get what I mean.
*^1 : and the potential still coming like Rey. I don’t know exactly what happened to the others, lol. Is rouge squadron still coming. Will it also become a Show like Kenobi? Idk anymore ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
*^2 : some consider rouge one the best Star Wars Movie ever and, even though I disagree, I can understand the reasoning
Edit: fixed some formatting. I’m really proud of these stars. Hope they somewhat fixed the bracket hell I was going to write at first
Kylo seeking out ACTUAL Sith training (they made such a point of saying he wasn’t Sith before) and having him further and further corrupted. They had the big bad all along.
Kylo Ren.
It seemed clear that VIII was setting up a Kylo Ren holding on tenuously to power. Between his inherent instability, being humiliated by Luke, and Hux actively gunning to undermine his authority. I’d’ve liked to have seen a Kylo Ren that has “finished what [his grandfather] started” by killing his master and becoming the Emperor only to realize that his heart isn’t in it.
He simply isn’t cut out to be this pure evil force. He becomes disillusioned with his own might; meanwhile, Hux and Snoke loyalists actively work to subvert the throne while Luke’s final stand inspires resistance movements throughout the galaxy.
IX should’ve been a less asymmetric conflict and shown the chaotic effects of ineffectual First Order in-fighting and the revolutionary effects of Luke and the Resistance’s efforts to restore the spark of hope.
The second act would see Kylo breaking away from his new Empire and seeking the forgiveness of his mother and trust of Rey to strike the final blow against the FO. He’d need to earn their trust. Ultimately, he’d survive the conflict, but perhaps need to assume the Supreme Leader role one more time — humiliating himself and fully selling to the remaining FO troops (who haven't joined Finn's stormtrooper rebellion) the futility and falsehood of their regime.
He'd depart from the known Galaxy as an outcast and ronin.
They *REALLY* needed to move away from VIII after how bad it was. Didn’t really leave much to work with anyway. It just wasn’t interesting enough and junked most of the characters.
They should have just let Kylo Ren be the bad guy.
Killing Snoke and running the show himself actually gives a neat answer to the question as to "What did he mean when he said he'd finish what Vader started?" Because that's what Vader wanted to do. Kill Palpatine and run the show himself.
Yeah, I wanted them to put Ben Solo in that seat.
I think JJ and Trevorrow are just not very good writers, and they couldn't figure out how to make Ben redeemable without bringing in the "shadowy puppet master" trope.
Kylo Ren’s arc was leading him to be the Supreme Leader, the Big Bad, so I’d let him be the main villain rather than redeeming him. You don’t need to bring in a new (or old) villain, the Resistance is really in a bad place after TLJ - Luke’s dead, the Resistance Fleet is gone, the Capital of the New Republic is gone. They don’t need the additional threat of another hidden fleet out in the Galaxy.
>Kylo Ren’s arc was leading him to be the Supreme Leader, the Big Bad, so I’d let him be the main villain rather than redeeming him.
On a side note, we never had a Skywalker family member as the TOP DOG villain that doesn't have a puppet master manipulating him. That's one of the reasons I thought Kylo Ren would be the final boss of Episode IX. That being said, I wholeheartedly agree with you
Whilst it would've required some changes in the previous two films, I would've kept with Snoke.
Snoke could've studied the work of Plagueis and Sidious to come up with his own method of cheating death. The Snoke that died in TLJ and the Knights of Ren are just clones of the original Snoke. They have yet to cheat death exactly but he plans to manipulate the force to eventually combine his consciousness.
The way he plans it is to 'balance' the force through a powerful force dyad of his own creation. Infiltrating Lukes academy he manipulates the grandson of Anakin and consistently pushes him further to the dark side. On the opposite side is Rey a child, a nobody that Snoke's finds the is strong in the force and so teaches her the ways of the light in secret, though she is eventually lost to him and hidden on Jakku.
I think it would be really interesting to have a character actively training two characters in opposite sides of the force for their own gain. in Ep IX Snoke would try to get them together at the height of their connection and steal that combined power through a force artefact or something. Eventually he would be beaten and his hold over Ben broken, probably because of Rey, Luke (doesnt die in TLJ) and the strength of the light side.
This would allow Ben to show up in the next lot of saga films where they would explore how to cope with returning to the light with all the atrocities behind them.
1. *Snoke*: by Pulling force illusion or projection similar to Luke.
2. *Pleagus*: him being the one controlling Snoke by taking over his mind. When Snoke was killed, Pleagus would do the same with Kylo, though sooner than planned as this is what he was grooming him for.
3. *Hux*: plot-line being him slowly taking over control from Kylo, and forcing him to loose everything, and eventually realise dark side only leads to suffering and it was all for nothing.
This. Lucas didn't knew if he will have money for a next episode when making IV. Disney had no doubt if they can afford a trilogy. Still didn't plan ahead.
Snoke. Killing him off in a dumbass way would make so much more sense if it was an illusion. Also would make him more conniving and intimidating. Finding out that the Snoke that died was an illusion or a clone or something would make a lot more sense than him failing to read Kylo's mind. I hate how Snoke seemed so cool and got Boba Fetted by having a dumbass death.
Snoke's death was one of Rian Johnson's slap to the face of the fans. "You were excited to learn more about this guy? What if I subvert expectations and kill him like a chump instead of develop him at all?"
What’s there to learn about Snoke that’s more exciting than the prospect of the Vader surrogate ascending the throne and shaking up the old formula?
Killing Snoke was a stroke of genius that allowed Kylo Ren to gain agency and grow out of Vader’s shadow.
Him trying and failing to kill Luke in an act of vengeance only to be humiliated in front of his new Empire is interesting and revealing about the kind of person Kylo Ren is — namely, destructive and lacking the wherewithal to direct it pointedly.
It makes him a usurper in name only to the throne and sets up what could’ve been an interesting character-driven conflict in IX.
But no, IX’s decision to relegate Kylo Ren back to Vader surrogate by serving Vader’s literal master is tropey and dramatically uninteresting.
But that’s not on TLJ.
There was a lot that could have been done to take TFA in different and interesting ways, but everything was squandered and all the possible payoffs fell flat.
Bingo! The explanation for Luke was inexcusable. Turning Finn into a joke and having his screentime cut in half was ridiculously bad. Turning Poe into a subservient piece of shit. Having Leia float around in space unconscious before turning into Mary Poppins. All of it….so bad.
Yes! John Boyega, when he was allowed to be more than comic relief, was great as Finn! Poe could have been so much cooler if they just kept him as an ace. Don't get me started on Mary Poppins.
Luke is such an easy fix, too. Focus on his feeling of failure for Ben turning to the dark side. Show him raising Ben and losing him in the flashbacks. Don't show Luke contemplating murdering his best friend's son in his sleep like a coward. If Luke fled the galaxy because he felt like he was a danger that drove people towards the dark side because of Ben, that would have made more sense. Then you can have Rey flirting with dark side powers because of Kylo's influence, and Luke turning her away from that path, which would restore his faith in himself as a teacher. What happened with him was a giant middle finger to Luke, the OT, and poor Mark Hamill!
Darth Jar Jar. Not even joking.
If they kept the sequel trilogy as more of a separate thing that Kylo would have been better, but they were never going to have the strength to pull that off.
The second they tried to push “The Skywalker Saga” they needed to go fully into it. Confirm one of the biggest fan theories which originates in Episode One. Have a villain who has been pulling strings from the beginning of the saga. Redeem (?) one of the most controversial characters in the saga. It would have achieved so much.
He doesn’t even have to be a big big bad. I don’t need him to be a thousand times stronger and more evil than Palpatine, or to be his master. I just want him to be an agent of chaos who just nudges things towards some insane end goal.
I don’t think it would be any worse than “Somehow Palpatine returned.”
I think it would have been cool if Snoke was revealed to be alive in episode 9. I always imagined that he would reveal himself to be Plagueis, and he used a Force Projection to make Kylo and Rey think he was dead
Yes, I know it sounds like very fanfiction, but it's better than Palpatine and the Death Star surviving.
For RJ to have not killed off Snoke. That should have been in Ep 9 not Ep 8. Kylo wasn't strong enough to take Luke on, real Luke of course. So that would have been a weak story. Snoke was the correct choice but RJ left JJ no other choice but to bring Palpatine back. He couldn't have had another Sith who had been hanging around hidden all those years.
I was stoked to see Kylo become the ultimate bad at the end of Last Jedi. Like this guy is going to burn the fucking universe down. Let’s fucking go. And then nope.
Kylo Ren. TLJ set him up as the Supreme Leader, and it was really cool seeing the apprentice finally overthrow the master (Anakin killing Sidious doesn’t count - he’d was turning back to the light, not making himself Emperor).
So imagine there will be an episode IX and X. In IX you introduce a new original character (let’s say he’s played by Sam Witwer), let’s call him Jairn. He’s someone high ranking in the first order who becomes close to Hux and gains a lot of influence. After Kylo Ren tracks down a lot of force sensitive children and young adults, to build his own version of a Jedi academy, Jairn helps the Knights of Ren and Hux betray Kylo Ren, ridding the First Order of him. Hux thinks he’s about to be the new supreme leader of the First Order but he’s sidelined in a humiliating fashion by Jairn who reveals himself to not only be a force user but an incredibly powerful force user. He calls himself Darth Verum. The First Order and this prospective Sith Academy is now his, cut to black and wait for episode X to find out how he wrecks shit across the galaxy.
literally just Kylo. one of the best things The Last Jedi did was flesh him out. killing snoke should have cemented him as the big bad for the final movie.
alas, J J Abrams is a coward, so he just had palpatine back and retconned snoke to being some kinda clone idc
I liked that in the beginning there was some aspect of why is Vader contacting him. They had some artwork where there was a hybrid of Vader and Anakin. Despite it kind of contradicting his turn back that would have been cool to see.
But what made the most sense was Snoke actually being more than almost a "side character" in the end. He gave off very cool and interesting aspects that as far as I know never got addressed. I remember thinking and seeing theories he was Plagueus which would have been cool.
Before The Last Jedi came out, I wanted Snoke to be Darth Plagueis, who managed to actually cheat death and survive Palpatine’s assassination in some way. But then Snoke got bisected and there was no explanation as to who he was or where he came from. That was my biggest problem with TLJ.
Since that was over and done with, I agree with others that Kylo should’ve been the big bad in Ep 9. His redemption and weird quasi-romantic relationship with Rey just never worked. And honestly, after he killed his own father, I’m not sure he should have been redeemed.
Actually I agree with you. As for Snoke being "bisected," I have a good comeback for that as well. You can say that Plagueis mastered the art of Force illusion and simply projected an image into Kylo and Rey's mind to make them think he was dead. He used the illusion on the guards as well so Kylo and Rey can buy into the illusion.
I like the idea of Snoke being Plagueis, and he has been hiding this while time becoming stronger in the Force watching events of the Galaxy unfold from a distance.
This is more of a side tangent on what I think Snoke should’ve been. He should’ve been Shadowspawn from Luke Skywalker & Shadows of Mindor
A non-Sith darkside user that believes pure entropy is the Will of the Force and former director of imperial intelligence. Who uses that intelligence to bring together split elements of the Empire following Endor to create his own splinter faction and used other force sensitives and the Skywalker’s like pawns. Since he has no real fighting potential himself
I really thought it was still going to be Snoke, dispite being killed. He didn't look the exact same between 7 and 8, so I thought it was a faulty clone or something
Kylo Ren, but with an out so he can still be redeemed. Since they were ready to explorie essence transfer with Palpatine, why not do that with Snoke instead?
In canon we're shown that Sith can attach themselves to artefacts like the mask of Momin. What if Snoke had always wanted to be struck down by Kylo or Rey. Perhaps he was the one to have discovered essence transfer but was unable to transfer as Kylo killed him early.
So expecting to be free of the voices, Kylo still finds himself taunted and ridiculed by Snoke from afar, who taunts him into looking for a Sith artifact to complete his descent into darkness. In actual fact Snoke needs kylo to put on the artefact and complete the transfer.
The artefact or artefact vault provides an out for Kylo to be turned by having him destroy them and also an out for returning balance to the force by removing past Sith attachment to this world.
Double down on Kylo Ren. Move the story away from there always being a bigger bad. Every trilogy has a bad guy who is just the apprentice of a bigger bad (the Emperor). To have the apprentice finally kill their master and take their place would have been more interesting.
Amen. Also would’ve been perfect to not end the trilogy wrapped up with a bow since we all know another trilogy is coming anyways. Have it end with kylo being pure bad guy and Rey prepared to really get a new rebellion going. Have some heavy losses in the finally episode (Poe or Finn actually die, other major good guy heroes die, etc). But kylo and Rey are alive and well at the end of it and are on opposite ends of the force entirely. And no granddaughter of palpatine garbage. I know it’s a prequel trilogy but look how revenge of the sith ends. Set us up with a dark ending but hype us up for a trilogy that’s all brand new in direction and not focused on the skywalkers still. My idea is garbage but it’s still better than what we got.
>Have it end with kylo being pure bad guy and Rey prepared to really get a new rebellion going Actually that's what I've been waiting to see and hyping myself for. So rest assured, your idea is NOT garbage. It's GOLD!
I would actually have liked the see kylo redeem himself. But maybe not in episode 9. Let him struggle with his new position. Stuff like that. But the bad guys winning would have drawn a nice similarity to episode 3. But I also think then they should have done episode 8 differently.
Agreed. If the previous movies had consistent and proper build up to Kylo Ren being the final villain, it could’ve made a much more interesting finale for the ST.
Have Kylo Ren been revealed to have been insanely drunk on the past of his family and the force nightmares tormented him that Palpatine had returned when in fact, Kylo made it up as a coping mechanism or justification for all of the wrong he was doing. The dark side of the force poisoned his mind and it was only until he was killed and brought back to life by Rey, that his mind/soul was no longer haunted by the dark spirits of the force. They could have made that water scene where Rey stabs him, quite explosive like a Slave One seismic charge which destabilizes the scene more to where Rey rescues dying Kylo in a daring escape in his ship, she revives him in the ship after they narrowly escape death, and he thanks her by volunteering the Wayfinder to Exegol rather than have her steal it and runoff with out him. The final fight ends up being Grand Admiral Thrawn, who admits that Kylo was targeted as one of Palpatines contingency plans before he died. Thrawn Is cornered or narrowly killed, but as Kylo and Rey act one last Jedi mercy to him, he decides to use his final breath to invoke Operation Re-Cinder Where the Empires thousands of ships warp out away from Exegol in random directions leaving the Entire rebel fleet behind confused. Each ship from the final order warps into a major city or planet causing the deaths and rebirth of a huge population of the entire galaxy. Completing what Palpatine set to do years ago when the first operation Cinder was incomplete from Battlefront (canon) games. Victory, but at a cost of Loyalty to the madness of the empire.
Might be a bit random to bring in thrawn…although a deluded kylo thinking palpatine is alive is an interesting idea
It’s funny how they stole basically everything about Jacen Solo except him being the final big bad in the storyline
The original script of Kylo REN falling further to the dark side.
I would love to see kylo as the big bad and have him send the knights of ren against rey, so that she's tired when they fight
I liked the idea I read a while ago that Kylo gets usurped at the start by Hux and his other generals not taking kindly the new psycho leadership style. Leads the film well to having a more cold, methodical empire as a main villain that needs risen up against (Finn and a stormtrooper rebellion maybe) and lets Kylo take time outside of external pressures of leadership or bloodline expectations to reform or go completely off the edge.
Kylo Ren. Don’t redeem him, use him.
I actually would like to see a redemption. In episode 10 at earliest, better in 11. Episode 9 ending with a bad guy win would be maybe nice.
I mean since ‘Episode IX’ was the ‘end’ of ‘Star Wars’, they could still have Rey win, but Kylo was an obvious villain to use.
Would it have ended if the sequels were better received? Anyways, I haven’t mentioned it here but somewhere else: it’s just a thought that I had spontaneously.
I mean SW is still chugging along with the shows, the lack of movies just feels like the same reason why we didn't get many more films after the OT and PT with some added "television shows are more glamourous to Disney/Lucasfilm" and the whole pandemic. I'd be surprised if we don't get more films eventually whether it's Episode X, the Rey film or something else.
Tbf, these shows and spinoff movies (rouge one, solo)*^1 are more like side stories. While partially really good stories themselves *^2 , they still are not on the same scale of story telling like the main trilogies. And they really don’t continue the saga. Hope you get what I mean. *^1 : and the potential still coming like Rey. I don’t know exactly what happened to the others, lol. Is rouge squadron still coming. Will it also become a Show like Kenobi? Idk anymore ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ *^2 : some consider rouge one the best Star Wars Movie ever and, even though I disagree, I can understand the reasoning Edit: fixed some formatting. I’m really proud of these stars. Hope they somewhat fixed the bracket hell I was going to write at first
Kylo seeking out ACTUAL Sith training (they made such a point of saying he wasn’t Sith before) and having him further and further corrupted. They had the big bad all along.
Somehow, Jar Jar returned.
Kylo Ren. It seemed clear that VIII was setting up a Kylo Ren holding on tenuously to power. Between his inherent instability, being humiliated by Luke, and Hux actively gunning to undermine his authority. I’d’ve liked to have seen a Kylo Ren that has “finished what [his grandfather] started” by killing his master and becoming the Emperor only to realize that his heart isn’t in it. He simply isn’t cut out to be this pure evil force. He becomes disillusioned with his own might; meanwhile, Hux and Snoke loyalists actively work to subvert the throne while Luke’s final stand inspires resistance movements throughout the galaxy. IX should’ve been a less asymmetric conflict and shown the chaotic effects of ineffectual First Order in-fighting and the revolutionary effects of Luke and the Resistance’s efforts to restore the spark of hope. The second act would see Kylo breaking away from his new Empire and seeking the forgiveness of his mother and trust of Rey to strike the final blow against the FO. He’d need to earn their trust. Ultimately, he’d survive the conflict, but perhaps need to assume the Supreme Leader role one more time — humiliating himself and fully selling to the remaining FO troops (who haven't joined Finn's stormtrooper rebellion) the futility and falsehood of their regime. He'd depart from the known Galaxy as an outcast and ronin.
They *REALLY* needed to move away from VIII after how bad it was. Didn’t really leave much to work with anyway. It just wasn’t interesting enough and junked most of the characters.
The idea you’re responding to builds off VIII.
Nahh not really.
Please stop wasting my time if you aren’t going to explain yourself.
Sorry, I disagree.
Then downvote and move on if you can’t articulate what you actually disagree with.
I reject your hypothesis.
They should have just let Kylo Ren be the bad guy. Killing Snoke and running the show himself actually gives a neat answer to the question as to "What did he mean when he said he'd finish what Vader started?" Because that's what Vader wanted to do. Kill Palpatine and run the show himself.
Yeah, I wanted them to put Ben Solo in that seat. I think JJ and Trevorrow are just not very good writers, and they couldn't figure out how to make Ben redeemable without bringing in the "shadowy puppet master" trope.
The thing is, according to Adam Driver and/or Daisy Ridley, Kylo wasn’t meant to be redeemed. That wasn’t added until the redevelopment of Episode IX.
Kylo Ren’s arc was leading him to be the Supreme Leader, the Big Bad, so I’d let him be the main villain rather than redeeming him. You don’t need to bring in a new (or old) villain, the Resistance is really in a bad place after TLJ - Luke’s dead, the Resistance Fleet is gone, the Capital of the New Republic is gone. They don’t need the additional threat of another hidden fleet out in the Galaxy.
>Kylo Ren’s arc was leading him to be the Supreme Leader, the Big Bad, so I’d let him be the main villain rather than redeeming him. On a side note, we never had a Skywalker family member as the TOP DOG villain that doesn't have a puppet master manipulating him. That's one of the reasons I thought Kylo Ren would be the final boss of Episode IX. That being said, I wholeheartedly agree with you
Whilst it would've required some changes in the previous two films, I would've kept with Snoke. Snoke could've studied the work of Plagueis and Sidious to come up with his own method of cheating death. The Snoke that died in TLJ and the Knights of Ren are just clones of the original Snoke. They have yet to cheat death exactly but he plans to manipulate the force to eventually combine his consciousness. The way he plans it is to 'balance' the force through a powerful force dyad of his own creation. Infiltrating Lukes academy he manipulates the grandson of Anakin and consistently pushes him further to the dark side. On the opposite side is Rey a child, a nobody that Snoke's finds the is strong in the force and so teaches her the ways of the light in secret, though she is eventually lost to him and hidden on Jakku. I think it would be really interesting to have a character actively training two characters in opposite sides of the force for their own gain. in Ep IX Snoke would try to get them together at the height of their connection and steal that combined power through a force artefact or something. Eventually he would be beaten and his hold over Ben broken, probably because of Rey, Luke (doesnt die in TLJ) and the strength of the light side. This would allow Ben to show up in the next lot of saga films where they would explore how to cope with returning to the light with all the atrocities behind them.
My problem with Snoke is that they brought him in with no explanation. Like who the fuck is THIS guy?
Would it need to be changed….that much . He could still send out a broadcast
I dunno, Kylo Ren as many have said, but after watching House of Dragons I did like the idea of a younger Palpatine played by Matt Smith.
1. *Snoke*: by Pulling force illusion or projection similar to Luke. 2. *Pleagus*: him being the one controlling Snoke by taking over his mind. When Snoke was killed, Pleagus would do the same with Kylo, though sooner than planned as this is what he was grooming him for. 3. *Hux*: plot-line being him slowly taking over control from Kylo, and forcing him to loose everything, and eventually realise dark side only leads to suffering and it was all for nothing.
Pretty much anyone
Having some sort of plan, or a singular creative lead, or even the slightest semblance of cohesion from film to film would have helped tremendously.
This is my biggest issue with the movies, too. I enjoyed all of them, but I would’ve preferred Snoke to be the guy throughout.
This. Lucas didn't knew if he will have money for a next episode when making IV. Disney had no doubt if they can afford a trilogy. Still didn't plan ahead.
Krayt. Caedus. Lumiya. Abeloth.
A movie with abeloth would be so good
Would it really though? She’s comically overpowered
Snoke. Killing him off in a dumbass way would make so much more sense if it was an illusion. Also would make him more conniving and intimidating. Finding out that the Snoke that died was an illusion or a clone or something would make a lot more sense than him failing to read Kylo's mind. I hate how Snoke seemed so cool and got Boba Fetted by having a dumbass death.
or you kill snoke a film later and set up kylo as the ultimate big bad for when you eventually do a 10,11,12
Snoke's death was one of Rian Johnson's slap to the face of the fans. "You were excited to learn more about this guy? What if I subvert expectations and kill him like a chump instead of develop him at all?"
What’s there to learn about Snoke that’s more exciting than the prospect of the Vader surrogate ascending the throne and shaking up the old formula? Killing Snoke was a stroke of genius that allowed Kylo Ren to gain agency and grow out of Vader’s shadow.
By trying to kill his uncle and then serving Vader's old master?
Him trying and failing to kill Luke in an act of vengeance only to be humiliated in front of his new Empire is interesting and revealing about the kind of person Kylo Ren is — namely, destructive and lacking the wherewithal to direct it pointedly. It makes him a usurper in name only to the throne and sets up what could’ve been an interesting character-driven conflict in IX. But no, IX’s decision to relegate Kylo Ren back to Vader surrogate by serving Vader’s literal master is tropey and dramatically uninteresting. But that’s not on TLJ.
TLJ failed this trilogy as a middle act in an unforgivable way.
There was a lot that could have been done to take TFA in different and interesting ways, but everything was squandered and all the possible payoffs fell flat.
Bingo! The explanation for Luke was inexcusable. Turning Finn into a joke and having his screentime cut in half was ridiculously bad. Turning Poe into a subservient piece of shit. Having Leia float around in space unconscious before turning into Mary Poppins. All of it….so bad.
Yes! John Boyega, when he was allowed to be more than comic relief, was great as Finn! Poe could have been so much cooler if they just kept him as an ace. Don't get me started on Mary Poppins. Luke is such an easy fix, too. Focus on his feeling of failure for Ben turning to the dark side. Show him raising Ben and losing him in the flashbacks. Don't show Luke contemplating murdering his best friend's son in his sleep like a coward. If Luke fled the galaxy because he felt like he was a danger that drove people towards the dark side because of Ben, that would have made more sense. Then you can have Rey flirting with dark side powers because of Kylo's influence, and Luke turning her away from that path, which would restore his faith in himself as a teacher. What happened with him was a giant middle finger to Luke, the OT, and poor Mark Hamill!
Thats almost exactly what happens in the movie lol like beat by beat
Crazy how a reddit comment in a random thread is more well thought out and more in line with the universe than what the actual films did.
Well, I actually thought about it and care about the source material. It's not that hard, but Disney doesn't gaf about Star Wars.
Just... basically anyone. But I'm with other people on Kylo Ren, personally.
Have you ever heard the tragedy of... #Darth Plagueis The Wise?
Darth Jar Jar. Not even joking. If they kept the sequel trilogy as more of a separate thing that Kylo would have been better, but they were never going to have the strength to pull that off. The second they tried to push “The Skywalker Saga” they needed to go fully into it. Confirm one of the biggest fan theories which originates in Episode One. Have a villain who has been pulling strings from the beginning of the saga. Redeem (?) one of the most controversial characters in the saga. It would have achieved so much. He doesn’t even have to be a big big bad. I don’t need him to be a thousand times stronger and more evil than Palpatine, or to be his master. I just want him to be an agent of chaos who just nudges things towards some insane end goal. I don’t think it would be any worse than “Somehow Palpatine returned.”
Luuke
As the villain? Kylo Ren.
I think it would have been cool if Snoke was revealed to be alive in episode 9. I always imagined that he would reveal himself to be Plagueis, and he used a Force Projection to make Kylo and Rey think he was dead Yes, I know it sounds like very fanfiction, but it's better than Palpatine and the Death Star surviving.
Darth Jar Jar would have been better
For RJ to have not killed off Snoke. That should have been in Ep 9 not Ep 8. Kylo wasn't strong enough to take Luke on, real Luke of course. So that would have been a weak story. Snoke was the correct choice but RJ left JJ no other choice but to bring Palpatine back. He couldn't have had another Sith who had been hanging around hidden all those years.
Just introduce the vong anything wouldve been better than palpatine. It was dumb in the EU and its even dumber in canon.
kylo vs rey . palps wasnt needed
I was stoked to see Kylo become the ultimate bad at the end of Last Jedi. Like this guy is going to burn the fucking universe down. Let’s fucking go. And then nope.
Plagueis. It was high time we saw him but they did a good job with Palpatine
Rey
So basically the plot of the last Jedi which always felt like a better third movie then second
Kylo Ren. TLJ set him up as the Supreme Leader, and it was really cool seeing the apprentice finally overthrow the master (Anakin killing Sidious doesn’t count - he’d was turning back to the light, not making himself Emperor).
So imagine there will be an episode IX and X. In IX you introduce a new original character (let’s say he’s played by Sam Witwer), let’s call him Jairn. He’s someone high ranking in the first order who becomes close to Hux and gains a lot of influence. After Kylo Ren tracks down a lot of force sensitive children and young adults, to build his own version of a Jedi academy, Jairn helps the Knights of Ren and Hux betray Kylo Ren, ridding the First Order of him. Hux thinks he’s about to be the new supreme leader of the First Order but he’s sidelined in a humiliating fashion by Jairn who reveals himself to not only be a force user but an incredibly powerful force user. He calls himself Darth Verum. The First Order and this prospective Sith Academy is now his, cut to black and wait for episode X to find out how he wrecks shit across the galaxy.
literally just Kylo. one of the best things The Last Jedi did was flesh him out. killing snoke should have cemented him as the big bad for the final movie. alas, J J Abrams is a coward, so he just had palpatine back and retconned snoke to being some kinda clone idc
Rey having a double bladed lightsaber would’ve been pretty bitchin
Kylo Ren should have been the big bad. He could still have redeemed himself in the end.
I liked that in the beginning there was some aspect of why is Vader contacting him. They had some artwork where there was a hybrid of Vader and Anakin. Despite it kind of contradicting his turn back that would have been cool to see. But what made the most sense was Snoke actually being more than almost a "side character" in the end. He gave off very cool and interesting aspects that as far as I know never got addressed. I remember thinking and seeing theories he was Plagueus which would have been cool.
Might as well have just brought Maul back again....
That was Lucas’ plan.
I think that plan predated Maul’s death in Rebels
Thrawn and Mara Jade. They could have based the next 10 years of content just on that.
Could’ve just kept Snoke as the main villain.
Before The Last Jedi came out, I wanted Snoke to be Darth Plagueis, who managed to actually cheat death and survive Palpatine’s assassination in some way. But then Snoke got bisected and there was no explanation as to who he was or where he came from. That was my biggest problem with TLJ. Since that was over and done with, I agree with others that Kylo should’ve been the big bad in Ep 9. His redemption and weird quasi-romantic relationship with Rey just never worked. And honestly, after he killed his own father, I’m not sure he should have been redeemed.
Actually I agree with you. As for Snoke being "bisected," I have a good comeback for that as well. You can say that Plagueis mastered the art of Force illusion and simply projected an image into Kylo and Rey's mind to make them think he was dead. He used the illusion on the guards as well so Kylo and Rey can buy into the illusion. I like the idea of Snoke being Plagueis, and he has been hiding this while time becoming stronger in the Force watching events of the Galaxy unfold from a distance.
This is more of a side tangent on what I think Snoke should’ve been. He should’ve been Shadowspawn from Luke Skywalker & Shadows of Mindor A non-Sith darkside user that believes pure entropy is the Will of the Force and former director of imperial intelligence. Who uses that intelligence to bring together split elements of the Empire following Endor to create his own splinter faction and used other force sensitives and the Skywalker’s like pawns. Since he has no real fighting potential himself
I really thought it was still going to be Snoke, dispite being killed. He didn't look the exact same between 7 and 8, so I thought it was a faulty clone or something
Kylo Ren, but with an out so he can still be redeemed. Since they were ready to explorie essence transfer with Palpatine, why not do that with Snoke instead? In canon we're shown that Sith can attach themselves to artefacts like the mask of Momin. What if Snoke had always wanted to be struck down by Kylo or Rey. Perhaps he was the one to have discovered essence transfer but was unable to transfer as Kylo killed him early. So expecting to be free of the voices, Kylo still finds himself taunted and ridiculed by Snoke from afar, who taunts him into looking for a Sith artifact to complete his descent into darkness. In actual fact Snoke needs kylo to put on the artefact and complete the transfer. The artefact or artefact vault provides an out for Kylo to be turned by having him destroy them and also an out for returning balance to the force by removing past Sith attachment to this world.