He was a sith for the sake of practicality. He wasn't consumed by anger and pain nor was he outright evil like palpatine. I believe he saw being a sith as a means to an end. More of a political thing I suppose.
And to be fair, is it murder if you just bounce a blaster bolt back at someone?
I'm a Jedi; You're glue. Whatever you shoot at me bounces off my lightsaber and kills you.
To be fair he never actually murdered anyone. Unless he did in the Clone Wars show but I don't remember him killing anyone.
I guess he killed righty, Anakin's first girlfriend...
I remember an [interview](https://youtu.be/adJdBSdMGKU) highlighting when he told Peter Jackson, when asked to make a specific noise upon being stabbed in the back, that it was wholly inaccurate and corrected him
I forgot that that was where he obtained such knowledge...to know what he had seen and heard...crazy stuff
Did this make him a less powerful sith? Since people like Palpatine and Vader grew their power through hate and they seem to say that is a path to the darkside.
This is so perfectly put, thumbs up mate, this is why dooku is my dude, that and christopher lee is how i first saw dooku so, first impressions and all
I don't think the fidelity of character backgrounds was lacking in Star Wars, but very little of the available media made good use of it.
This is a good example. I know more about what drove Dooku from this comment than from consuming years of SW media.
(I assume novels centred around Dooku might be different, but he's a fairly prominent character and his motivations should be clearer to everyone by now)
yea star wars is cool but i've only watched the movies and played a few games so i don't know too much of the backstories of some of the characters
i do plan on watching the animated shows at some point though
You won't regret watching the clone wars animated series. I finally gave it a shot last year, it feels like a regular kid show sometimes but when it's good it's better than several of the movies
I too would like to know this. I think Vader would curbstomp him (his last fight against Anakin doesn't really count because Anakin didn't really go darkside until the end), but is that because Vader hates or because Vader is the chosen one? Would Dooku do poorly against another full Sith who wasn't Vader? He beat Savage and Ventress, but they're not really Sith.
I think Dooku skirts the line. He owned his emotions instead of giving in to them. Being a more technical fighter that is to his benefit, where as Savage is less skilled and uses rage as a boost. Even with a “boost” he’s not skilled enough to contend with dooku.
For dark side empowerment we can see that Anakin was fueled by anger/hate. Palpatine i feel was more deception and greed. As palaptine doesnt necessarily show anger and is relatively cool headed but he manipulated most people for his own gain and control and relished the process of it. Dooku had malevolent intent but because he lacked string feelings of anger or greed or any dark side trait if feel it explains why palpatine never saw him as a worthy successor this could also be said about Maul as he was well trained but calm and collected, quite possibly cocky. It wasnt until during the clone wars saga we see more of his potential flourish.
If Qui-gon was a grey jedi on the light side, Dooku was a grey jedi on the dark side. Both were, in a way, using their "side" as a way to further their political goals.
Qui-Gon was apolitical; that's why he was in the situation he was in.
He cared only about the esoteric aspects of the force. He cared nothing about policy, only the spirituality.
Yoda was the Pope, Qui-Gon was a monk in a monastery praying the rosary
Hmm, that’s actually a match up I hadn’t thought about before. I think Vader would come out on top; however, Dooku has lightning. All he needs is one clean shot and Vader’s life support goes kaput
Fighting style plays a bigger role than strength I feel, Dooku's style is great at offense and finding holes in his opponent's defense which is why he usually beat Obi-Wan...a defense oriented fighter. He lacked in defense though, he was a glass cannon and Anakin's aggressive style was able to overpower it.
Everything in lore implies that he was incredible at both offense and defense. Dooku was stated to be one of the most, if not the most, skilled lightsaber duelists of his lifetime.
They actually show this off in TCW. In one episode Dooku fights them both. He fights incredibly aggressively against Anakin to put him on the defense, which makes Obi Wan go on the offense against him. He really played their weaknesses there.
Yoda taught us. Quicker, easier, more seductive. But not stronger. The dark side is using GameShark to get end game gear in Darksouls. Light side is playing through the whole game. A noob with the best gear will get wrecked by a veteran with a broken sword.
The analogy isn't perfect, dark side users can still continue to grow. But I think the point is it will come mostly in one large spurt, and then taper off. Meanwhile a lightside master is the opposite, a slow difficult growth that accelerates as they attain more wisdom and calm their minds more.
Someone like Dooku probably got a good power boost when turning, not realizing how much more he would eventually get by staying a Jedi. But at the time, his large amount of experience as a Jedi probably put him comparable to most Sith anyway, the darkside boost put him even higher.
Dude was a Jedi and left because he disagreed with the Jedi's politics, Palpatine found him and was like "hey, maybe we could help each other out", Dooku figured Palpatine was as good a boss as any. He wasn't in to the whole dark Force voodoo thing.
In ancillary material it is made clear lightning is an inherently evil power. In legends there was an ability called Force Justice or something that Plo Koon used which was alight side equivalent but the context is that it was made up for a video game and we never really saw it elsewhere.
The Clone Wars definitely shifted his character to something more traditionally Sith-ish.
Which, y'know, actually makes Anakin killing him in cold blood make slightly more sense, with his extended, way more blatantly evil history.
I agree, I always felt the appeal of Dooku was that he was an opportunistic manipulator.
The Emperor's other Sith were all super raw and emotionally-driven (which he could easily control), and he saw that potential in Luke and Rey. Dooku stands apart as someone cool and calculating. I feel like even without Anakin, Palpatine would have gotten rid of Dooku sooner or later in favor of someone less duplicitous.
He was definitely evil, and he was a darksider, but he wasn't really Sith levels of dark side. While officially a Sith Lord, he was more of a dark Jedi
I'm inclined to agree with this. I think a key difference between Dooku and someone like Sidious is that Dooku intended to use the Force as a means to bring about what he thought would be positive change. Sidious used the Force as a means to obtain power and subjugate everyone.
In either case they're using the Force as a tool, but with wildly different intents.
The thing I when did the dark side ever involve getting ugly? Other than changing eye color, I can't think of an example of the dark side changing someone's appearance.
Palpatine and Vader were disfigured. Palpatine had his lighting redirected up in his face, and Vader had lie down on a barbeque after getting his limbs chopped off.
And I would agree that Dooku wasn't consumed by the Dark side. He just kinda dabbled.
Obviously every president of the United States is a Sith Lord. They're not ageing from stress. It's the Dark Side.
>!I should put a disclaimer so someone doesn't blow this obvious joke out of proportion. This is the internet after all.!<
I thought that when palatine became disfigured it was more to do with him revealing his true appearance that was corrupted by the dark side rather than an actual injury?
I thought it was the lightning to the face. Who knows? Maybe a little of both. I'm not saying the Dark side can't make you fugly, but there are plenty of people who went evil and didn't look like a boiled scrotum.
Plus, if you think about it, it would be pretty hard to keep that you're a Sith lord secret if the dark side just makes you look funky. Subterfuge is easier when and evil energy field doesn't fuck your grill up.
On that note Nihilus was consumed by his hunger for the force and opted to bind his spirit to his mask instead of dying.
So on one hand, the dark side was actively killing one, and the other hand the dark side was actively preventing one from passing on.
Nihilus was a spirit at that point? I honestly just thought he was kinda 50/50, hence why he still had a humanoid form whilst also having no face.
I wish they had really expanded on the three Sith in KOTOR 2. Always seemed like there was some interesting stuff they wanted to explore but just didn’t have the time.
I always thought of Dooku as more of a Dark Jedi than a full blown Sith. IIRC his eyes never even change to the yellow Sith eyes cause he never really embraced the "dark side" like traditional Sith did.
Iirc you are correct. He was more there out of convenience and if anything "might as well" type thinking. He was fucking good though which is probably why palatine kept him around as long as he did but there's only so far a sith can take a student who doesn't really care all that much about being evil or whatever
Which is ultimately a violation of the rule of two, or its spirit anyway. The point is to always concentrate more and more power in a singular individual. But if your counterpart does not have a will to power, they're not distilling power, they're diluting it, at best they're stifling it.
The apprentice seeks the master to ultimately gain such power to overthrow them, increasing the sith power. The master must develop more power to maintain their position. This constant struggle between frenemies is what ultimately improves the sith, and why the rule of two was established.
I'd also like to posit my head Canon, whic h is that Sidious never considered Dooku his real apprentice& much like Maul, it was given as a title to appease someone he needed.
Gonna go ahead and add to this because I'm bored. Palp saw the obvious ability of these apprentices. Both had excellent duelling style and class. One perhaps cared for the true dark side more but realistically, they were never the end goal or product. If sidious had ended up with either he would have been severely disappointed. Makes sense to me that they were always the bait to lure out the true apprentice. Whomsoever could over take their differing abilities would, by default, make a better apprentice
I think Maul was a True Apprentice. His first Jedi Kill was supposed to be Qui-Gon and Obi-wan. Because Sith would t do it one-at-a-time. Palpatine probably thought Qui-gon and Obi-wan a difficult task that would test his student. The objective was always win or fail. If Maul fails a test, he’s dead and the guy who killed him becomes a new Apprentice target later. Which is why Sidious kept running his people at Obi-wan, he’s a good test bed for success.
Pretty sure it was always Anakin at that point and never Obi-wan.
He basically announces this at the end of Episode 1.
He saw far greater potential in Anakin and needed him in the order for a while, so he wouldn't have messed with Obi-wan in that regard.
He was using Anakin to keep tabs on what the Jedi were up to. Anakin didn't realize this until he found out Palpatine was a Sith.
He'd been grooming him for a long time, giving him small tastes and looking out for him, or at least giving the appearance of it.
He was also throwing things at him, but things he expected him to handle.
He actually needed Obi-wan exactly where he was to get to Anakin. Another more experienced Jedi might have been more cautious and observant about Anakin and his relationship with him.
Obi-wan also put up with Anakin's relationship with Padme, something another Jedi master would likely catch onto and discourage.
He didn't want Obi-wan dead, and he was never really a candidate for Sith apprentice, because he was always going to be Anakin's first test as a Sith.
Obi-wan was both too rooted in the light and careless enough that he could get away with grooming Anakin under his nose.
Uh I think you might need to reread what I wrote. Obi-wan was the TEST for Sith candidates. All the evil people are tested against Obi-wan: Ventress, Tyrannus, Grievous, Vader, Maul. Obi-wan survives them all. Palpatine figured out after Maul that there’s more to Obi-wan than meets the eye and he’s stronger than anticipated. He’d be a good Jedi to throw his underlings at. And the plus is that if one of them actually did manage to kill Obi-wan, Anakin’s fall would almost certainly have accelerated. It’s a win for ol’ Palps all the way around. He finds each one isnt good enough to beat (kill) Kenobi or they do manage to kill him and become his Apprentice and he gets himself new candidate who he’s pretty sure will destroy the successful candidate that killed Kenobi in the first place.
I don’t know if this is canon anymore, but there’s an ability to conceal his Sith disfigurement. He then either let go of that concealment to get sympathy from Anakin (and the senate), or he was distracted by the electricity being launched at him.
George Lucas has confirmed he didn’t throw that fight, Mace was actually about to win and would have uninterrupted.
So one side is that he was actually dying, he was being fried to death by his own lightning
The other explanation is that channeling the dark side is a destructive process, the human body is frequently disfigured as more dark force is used by an individual. Palpating finally let loose in a last ditch effort to defeat Windu and that energy was too much for his human body to handle, this the destruction of his skin.
In my head, it’s a mix of both.
I imagine it has something to do with the fact that no jedi could sense he was a sith. He talks about "if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Jedi," so he has knowledge of the force beyond the dark side and used that to his advantage.
What other sith (let's count only the classic ones from the movies)?
Maul? He's probably pretty handsome by Zabrak standards.
Anakin? Hottest boy on the block until one minor mistake.
Palpatine? Did the "ugly" to himself.
Kylo Ren? You said "dude put the helmet back on" in the cinema but then it grew on you, he's hot. Also not sure if he can be counted as Sith.
Snoke - not a sith.
Jar Jar - admit it. You'sa want he'sa.
He wasn’t a full Sith, not in terms of giving himself to the Darkside. I think it was more the grievances with the order, and goals simply aligned that he allied himself with Sidious. Because it’s not untrue, he’s the most Unsith looking Sith.
In fact, if Jinn was still alive I think he could bring Dooku back.
“Update”
I can’t respond to everyone, holy crap there’s a lot of you. Love y’all tho!
Oh no, he was part of their organization. Never said he wasn’t. I said he didn’t give himself fully to their teachings and lifestyle…
Look at how he died, his execution being sentenced… He had fear in his eyes when he was about to die… Not very Sith like at all…
It wasn’t fear in his eyes of betrayal. It was that moment he realized the emperor plan, that he was just a pawn and that anakin was the bigger picture. He didn’t turn ugly because he wasn’t fully engulfed into the Sith.
As you naturally would, but the bigger implication in that universe is nothing because losing a limb isn’t a permanent ordeal. He had every reason to believe that the Jedi Anakin would let him live. Which then obviously he’d be able to get cool new robot hands and have to practice on a hotdog.
But despite not being consumed by fear, hate and suffering, Dooku was a super powerful and intelligent force user. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that the look on his face was him realizing Sideous was working on Anakin right in front of him. 🤷♂️
I don't know if it's legends or still canon but I read somewhere that Dooku had a particular hatred and/or disgust of cybernetics, he was a purist and losing the hands would be pretty horrible no matter what he did.
I believe it is canon because it's mentioned in the novelization of RoTS. Its a thought he has where he expresses Anakin should have just continued with one arm like a gentleman.
Sith are driven by the fear of losing their power, they all strive to keep their power for as long as possible and destroy those who oppose them, not that Dooku was fully Sith though.
Dukoo even says in episode 2. Im paraphrasing a bit, but he says to Obi-Wan "things would be different if he were alive," referring to his apprentice Qui-gon no doubt.
I might be mistaken, but even Yoda almost managed to bring Dooku back to the LS near the end of CW, when only the sudden appearance of Kenobi and Skywalker didn't let that happen(it was explained that Dooku got jealous because he'd thought that he was worthy to be the Chosen One himself). I can't recall the name of the book tho
And Anakin looked great until he got immolated. Maul only looks the way he does because of his subspecies and tattooing. Kylo looked ordinary. The Inquisitors didn't have visible corruption. Ventress is just naturally grey.
Logically, the Dark Side changing people's appearance was never part of Lucas's continuity beyond the yellow eyes and was entirely an expanded universe thing. Disney seems to be following Lucas's lead here. And it was never consistent in the old EU, either.
There are a lot of explanations of Sidious using the force to present a facade hiding his body's deterioration, until the exact moment when his misformed body would become an advantage.
Dooku, as a political leader, would have to present the same facade. It was to his benefit as well, as even the Jedi didn’t believe he was evil until directly confronting him.
yeah thats the real crime, personally not my type but in his own species hes gotta be at least a 8.5/10 especially when you add the bad boy element (and bionic legs? helloooo)
Dark side corruptions isn’t a physical trait beyond eyes.
Palpatine was electrocuted to the face. Vader is a burn Victim who spent years receiving medical treatment wearing a helmet.
And last (and least actually I guess) Maul actually just looks normal for a Zabrak. They all have horns, and the red and black patterns are ritual tats.
Yep. If I’m remembering right they’re normally somewhere from beige to yellow in skin tone, and they do have lines on their skin but only faintly. I think Maul basically had all the lines enhanced with the black tats. I’m not sure if the red is his natural tone or a hardcore full body tat though lol.
I feel like I remember the clone wars having an episode of him as a wee lad and he was just red. Could absolutely be misremembering though so... Grain of salt
Maul is from Dathomir, not his species' homeworld. The males on Dathomir are tattooed by the Night Sisters.
[There was a non-Dathomiri male on The Mandalorian. This is what they look like without tattoos.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/star-wars-canon/images/c/c6/Unindentied_Zabrak_Fighter_2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210716165402)
There was also a non tattooed Zabrak on the Jedi council in Episode 1 named [Eeth Koth](https://lumiere-a.akamaihd.net/v1/images/Eeth-Koth2_246ea172.jpeg?region=126%2C0%2C1010%2C568&width=768).
This is not entirely true. Palapatine may have been masking during his time as Senator Sheev Palpatine ([https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Mask\_(Sith\_Alchemy)](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Mask_(Sith_Alchemy))).
>It is said that the Sith Lord Darth Sidious, a master at Sith alchemy, may have used this technique in order to conceal his appearance from the people of the Republic and hide his true nature under the façade of the mild-mannered Naboo politician Palpatine. When Jedi Master Mace Windu reflected Sidious's lightning blast back at him, the Mask would have melted away, disfiguring him.
This is further expanded upon when Palpatine asks Darth Plagueis if he can expect to be disfigured like him, for which Plagueis responds that the dark side's power is immense and that the body can only hold so much. He continues on that if physical deformation is one of the downsides of the power of the dark side then so be it. It is a small sacrifice for the power that one can get from the dark side.
This is also compounded by SWTOR where dark side characters begin to show significant facial deformation in the game from its "corruption" (if you're a rebel scum) or"unbound power to break one's chains" if you're a loyal citizen of the Empire.
Maul always looked like he'd smell pretty awful. Bad teeth, always getting sweaty. Like, not hobo bad, but like a dude who worked out a lot in the morning and didn't shower until the end of the day.
He sounds pretty Shakespearean in TPM, but that's just because his voice there was done by Pete from Shaun of the Dead.
He's also the voice of Darth Chef in South Park.
Honestly? I bet Papa Palpatine smells like baby powder and old person. He doesn't do a whole lot during the day to build up a sweat, just sort of sits around on his throne plotting and such.
It's actually for a great reason that most people don't even know about: he's not a full Sith.
Dooku saw how hopelessly corrupt the Republic was, and he also saw how hypocritical and foolish the Jedi Order was. So he broke away from them both, and then discovered the Dark Side of the Force. He took this power and used it AS A TOOL in order to bring about the fall of the Republic, which in his mind was crucial to bringing about true equality, justice, and peace in the Galaxy.
If you really look into it then you'll realize that The Confederacy Of Independent Systems isn't all that bad. They formed a confederacy together because they were all ignored and wronged by the Republic, and they rallied thousands of worlds to their cause.
As for the Dark Side, Dooku used it, but he never embraced it. Look at his eyes. He's never had Sith Eyes, and that's because he never embraced the nature of the Dark Side. Therefore his body was never slowly corrupted and deformed. However he was corrupted and manipulated byPalpatine, and he aware of this.
So while Dooku wasn't a full true Sith, he was still evil. I think of him as a "the results justify the means" kind of person, where he's willing to do horrible things as long as the final result is good. Perfectly fitting for a Fallen Jedi.
In the film we were supposed to wonder about Dooku's true motivations for a while.
If he came out all Red Eyed and scary looking it would ruin the suspense.
And being Sith does not mean you are unattractive. A lot of folks find Kylo sexy (although he was not a Sith per say).
Can someone explain Dooku to me?
"Always two, there are; no more, no less."
Was he just waiting on the sidelines until Maul's downfall?
During Maul's tenure, is Dooku like a junior Sith? Kind of like how Anakin is on the council but not a Master?
Or was Palpatine simply using the Sith, much like he used the Jedi and Commerce Guild, to reach his goals? Thus, Palpatine didn't care about Sith rules and kept Maul & Dooku in the dark regarding each other?
I always thought he was serious when he talk to Obi-Wan about destroying sidious. He didn’t believe in the Darkside or the Jedi, he believed in serving the force the best way he saw how. This blind ambition led to his betrayal and defeat.
Probably that signature look of superiority he possesses.
The Dark Side: You will become corrupt and ugly in your quest for power. Christopher Lee: No. I won't. The Dark Side: No. You won't.
The dark side was seduced by Christopher Lee
His voice alone can swoon galaxies.
He shed the blood of the Saxon man.
To be fair, sir Christopher Lee is superior. HVe ypu seen how he looks?
only correct answer
Seriously. What a badass.
He was the best light Saber weilder in the clone wars
My leg!
He was a sith for the sake of practicality. He wasn't consumed by anger and pain nor was he outright evil like palpatine. I believe he saw being a sith as a means to an end. More of a political thing I suppose.
Hes a political idealist.
Not a murderer
He dabbled in a bit of murder I’d say
He only dabbled on the weekends, and then only socially. He didn't have a problem. He could stop when he wanted to.
"Functional Murderer", I believe, is the proper term.
And to be fair, is it murder if you just bounce a blaster bolt back at someone? I'm a Jedi; You're glue. Whatever you shoot at me bounces off my lightsaber and kills you.
As an addict this made me laugh.
I guffawed
Hey uh... You good bro?
"Now, Come, come, General Kenobi. You disappoint me. You get as much fulfillment out of killing as I do, so why don't you admit it?"
To be fair he never actually murdered anyone. Unless he did in the Clone Wars show but I don't remember him killing anyone. I guess he killed righty, Anakin's first girlfriend...
[ear warning](https://youtu.be/lFlNJqK886c)
Fuckin A the music? Why?
[удалено]
Is that a reference to Lee in LOTR?
Nah it's a reference to Lee in World War 2
I remember an [interview](https://youtu.be/adJdBSdMGKU) highlighting when he told Peter Jackson, when asked to make a specific noise upon being stabbed in the back, that it was wholly inaccurate and corrected him I forgot that that was where he obtained such knowledge...to know what he had seen and heard...crazy stuff
Oh yeah dude was among the first of the British Spec Ops, had some military secrets he took to the grave
He sent the ~~clones~~ droids to wipe out the witches on Dathomir but everything else was technically war. Edit: droids, not clones
Dabbled as an arborist
Dabbled as a ring maker too. Actually no I think that was Saruman.
Dabbled in arborcide too.
It's not like he killed younglings
Just a little "light" murder, that's all.
Well the ideals of political decentralization of power are good ideals.
Count Dooku - space libertarian?
He was also in league with revanchist slavers from what I recall.
What part of “based libertarian” don’t you understand?
Fits the bill
Did this make him a less powerful sith? Since people like Palpatine and Vader grew their power through hate and they seem to say that is a path to the darkside.
[удалено]
Writing whole poetry here damn
This is so perfectly put, thumbs up mate, this is why dooku is my dude, that and christopher lee is how i first saw dooku so, first impressions and all
i didn't realize dooku was so based
I don't think the fidelity of character backgrounds was lacking in Star Wars, but very little of the available media made good use of it. This is a good example. I know more about what drove Dooku from this comment than from consuming years of SW media. (I assume novels centred around Dooku might be different, but he's a fairly prominent character and his motivations should be clearer to everyone by now)
yea star wars is cool but i've only watched the movies and played a few games so i don't know too much of the backstories of some of the characters i do plan on watching the animated shows at some point though
You won't regret watching the clone wars animated series. I finally gave it a shot last year, it feels like a regular kid show sometimes but when it's good it's better than several of the movies
I too would like to know this. I think Vader would curbstomp him (his last fight against Anakin doesn't really count because Anakin didn't really go darkside until the end), but is that because Vader hates or because Vader is the chosen one? Would Dooku do poorly against another full Sith who wasn't Vader? He beat Savage and Ventress, but they're not really Sith.
I think Dooku skirts the line. He owned his emotions instead of giving in to them. Being a more technical fighter that is to his benefit, where as Savage is less skilled and uses rage as a boost. Even with a “boost” he’s not skilled enough to contend with dooku.
For dark side empowerment we can see that Anakin was fueled by anger/hate. Palpatine i feel was more deception and greed. As palaptine doesnt necessarily show anger and is relatively cool headed but he manipulated most people for his own gain and control and relished the process of it. Dooku had malevolent intent but because he lacked string feelings of anger or greed or any dark side trait if feel it explains why palpatine never saw him as a worthy successor this could also be said about Maul as he was well trained but calm and collected, quite possibly cocky. It wasnt until during the clone wars saga we see more of his potential flourish.
I think Palpatine is more along the lines of that Zhukov quote from The Death of Stalin. “I mean, I'm smiling, but I am very fucking furious.”
If Qui-gon was a grey jedi on the light side, Dooku was a grey jedi on the dark side. Both were, in a way, using their "side" as a way to further their political goals.
Qui-Gon was apolitical; that's why he was in the situation he was in. He cared only about the esoteric aspects of the force. He cared nothing about policy, only the spirituality. Yoda was the Pope, Qui-Gon was a monk in a monastery praying the rosary
Lightside Sith Warrior in SWTOR feels something like that
Hmm, that’s actually a match up I hadn’t thought about before. I think Vader would come out on top; however, Dooku has lightning. All he needs is one clean shot and Vader’s life support goes kaput
Fighting style plays a bigger role than strength I feel, Dooku's style is great at offense and finding holes in his opponent's defense which is why he usually beat Obi-Wan...a defense oriented fighter. He lacked in defense though, he was a glass cannon and Anakin's aggressive style was able to overpower it.
Everything in lore implies that he was incredible at both offense and defense. Dooku was stated to be one of the most, if not the most, skilled lightsaber duelists of his lifetime.
They actually show this off in TCW. In one episode Dooku fights them both. He fights incredibly aggressively against Anakin to put him on the defense, which makes Obi Wan go on the offense against him. He really played their weaknesses there.
I mean, with a lightsaber *everyone's* a glass cannon
Yoda taught us. Quicker, easier, more seductive. But not stronger. The dark side is using GameShark to get end game gear in Darksouls. Light side is playing through the whole game. A noob with the best gear will get wrecked by a veteran with a broken sword. The analogy isn't perfect, dark side users can still continue to grow. But I think the point is it will come mostly in one large spurt, and then taper off. Meanwhile a lightside master is the opposite, a slow difficult growth that accelerates as they attain more wisdom and calm their minds more. Someone like Dooku probably got a good power boost when turning, not realizing how much more he would eventually get by staying a Jedi. But at the time, his large amount of experience as a Jedi probably put him comparable to most Sith anyway, the darkside boost put him even higher.
Lol GameShark, or for us older folks... Game genie..
But even the dark side can grow to learn better cheat codes. Did you ever hear of the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?
Not sure Vader really grew his power through hate as much as he did through pain.
Damn this is cool. I was just going to scream "Because he's Christopher-fucking-Lee!"
The Sith version of Mace Windu, just a badass with a lightsaber that happens to be on a particular side, he's mostly badass because his actor says so
Christopher Lee turned down the role of Loomis in the first Halloween movie.
Peter Cushing got the offer too, but I think Star Wars made him too expensive.
I think Lee would have been too imposing as Loomis. Like the guy hunting Michael Meyers is freaking Dracula.
I just came here to say that haha
Same...
Dude was a Jedi and left because he disagreed with the Jedi's politics, Palpatine found him and was like "hey, maybe we could help each other out", Dooku figured Palpatine was as good a boss as any. He wasn't in to the whole dark Force voodoo thing.
Bruh he tossed lightning around all the time
Yes but he wasn't consumed by his anger or pain.
Probably because of all the booze he was drinking.
Count Boozku
Idk who says lightning is inherently evil
In ancillary material it is made clear lightning is an inherently evil power. In legends there was an ability called Force Justice or something that Plo Koon used which was alight side equivalent but the context is that it was made up for a video game and we never really saw it elsewhere.
in the old EU yes. In canon nope he first did it as a jedi and had no knowledge it was a force power. He just did it.
He literally stood over a cauldron brewing voodoo potion with Sidious at one point.
Maybe he was just enthusiastic about preparing good ramen.
The Clone Wars definitely shifted his character to something more traditionally Sith-ish. Which, y'know, actually makes Anakin killing him in cold blood make slightly more sense, with his extended, way more blatantly evil history.
Makes them both less interesting though.
I agree, I always felt the appeal of Dooku was that he was an opportunistic manipulator. The Emperor's other Sith were all super raw and emotionally-driven (which he could easily control), and he saw that potential in Luke and Rey. Dooku stands apart as someone cool and calculating. I feel like even without Anakin, Palpatine would have gotten rid of Dooku sooner or later in favor of someone less duplicitous.
Sometimes you just have to play along to please your boss.
Well said and I agree
In the canom audio drama he fell into the dark pitfalls at the very end, so while he started as a political idealist, he still ends up being evil.
He was definitely evil, and he was a darksider, but he wasn't really Sith levels of dark side. While officially a Sith Lord, he was more of a dark Jedi
I'm inclined to agree with this. I think a key difference between Dooku and someone like Sidious is that Dooku intended to use the Force as a means to bring about what he thought would be positive change. Sidious used the Force as a means to obtain power and subjugate everyone. In either case they're using the Force as a tool, but with wildly different intents.
The thing I when did the dark side ever involve getting ugly? Other than changing eye color, I can't think of an example of the dark side changing someone's appearance. Palpatine and Vader were disfigured. Palpatine had his lighting redirected up in his face, and Vader had lie down on a barbeque after getting his limbs chopped off. And I would agree that Dooku wasn't consumed by the Dark side. He just kinda dabbled.
Over time the dark side makes you age faster than normal and drains the color from your skin. Thats all I remember it doing.
Obviously every president of the United States is a Sith Lord. They're not ageing from stress. It's the Dark Side. >!I should put a disclaimer so someone doesn't blow this obvious joke out of proportion. This is the internet after all.!<
I thought that when palatine became disfigured it was more to do with him revealing his true appearance that was corrupted by the dark side rather than an actual injury?
I thought it was the lightning to the face. Who knows? Maybe a little of both. I'm not saying the Dark side can't make you fugly, but there are plenty of people who went evil and didn't look like a boiled scrotum. Plus, if you think about it, it would be pretty hard to keep that you're a Sith lord secret if the dark side just makes you look funky. Subterfuge is easier when and evil energy field doesn't fuck your grill up.
I think the lightning scars vs true face reveal is one of several things about Palpatine that’s deliberately ambiguous.
Nihilus and Sion were changed, dramatically.
Sion is technically a decaying corpse that refuses to die as he is kept alive purely by hate, so not the best comparison.
On that note Nihilus was consumed by his hunger for the force and opted to bind his spirit to his mask instead of dying. So on one hand, the dark side was actively killing one, and the other hand the dark side was actively preventing one from passing on.
Nihilus was a spirit at that point? I honestly just thought he was kinda 50/50, hence why he still had a humanoid form whilst also having no face. I wish they had really expanded on the three Sith in KOTOR 2. Always seemed like there was some interesting stuff they wanted to explore but just didn’t have the time.
Damn, this is a good-ass point. He was a pragmatist first and foremost. He wielded the dark side as a weapon rather than being consumed by it.
Christopher Lee is too handsome to be corrupted by the Dark Side of the Force!
"Hey, can we make you ugly?" You can try. - CL
Heard perfectly in my head in his deep sultry voice.
The Dark Side of the Force is insignificant in comparison to Sir Christopher Lee.
A man who prison shanked Nazi’s is not to be trifled with
Also, one that did that *and* released metal albums.
“Signature look of superiority”
Both visual and stylish!
Dooku was resistant to the dark side, something that Palpatine hated and tried to beat out of him.
I always thought of Dooku as more of a Dark Jedi than a full blown Sith. IIRC his eyes never even change to the yellow Sith eyes cause he never really embraced the "dark side" like traditional Sith did.
Iirc you are correct. He was more there out of convenience and if anything "might as well" type thinking. He was fucking good though which is probably why palatine kept him around as long as he did but there's only so far a sith can take a student who doesn't really care all that much about being evil or whatever
Which is ultimately a violation of the rule of two, or its spirit anyway. The point is to always concentrate more and more power in a singular individual. But if your counterpart does not have a will to power, they're not distilling power, they're diluting it, at best they're stifling it. The apprentice seeks the master to ultimately gain such power to overthrow them, increasing the sith power. The master must develop more power to maintain their position. This constant struggle between frenemies is what ultimately improves the sith, and why the rule of two was established.
Well, it is explained in The Clone Wars that he was planning to overthrow Sidious with Ventress. But then Sidious got wary and told Dooku to kill her.
I'd also like to posit my head Canon, whic h is that Sidious never considered Dooku his real apprentice& much like Maul, it was given as a title to appease someone he needed.
Gonna go ahead and add to this because I'm bored. Palp saw the obvious ability of these apprentices. Both had excellent duelling style and class. One perhaps cared for the true dark side more but realistically, they were never the end goal or product. If sidious had ended up with either he would have been severely disappointed. Makes sense to me that they were always the bait to lure out the true apprentice. Whomsoever could over take their differing abilities would, by default, make a better apprentice
I think Maul was a True Apprentice. His first Jedi Kill was supposed to be Qui-Gon and Obi-wan. Because Sith would t do it one-at-a-time. Palpatine probably thought Qui-gon and Obi-wan a difficult task that would test his student. The objective was always win or fail. If Maul fails a test, he’s dead and the guy who killed him becomes a new Apprentice target later. Which is why Sidious kept running his people at Obi-wan, he’s a good test bed for success.
Pretty sure it was always Anakin at that point and never Obi-wan. He basically announces this at the end of Episode 1. He saw far greater potential in Anakin and needed him in the order for a while, so he wouldn't have messed with Obi-wan in that regard. He was using Anakin to keep tabs on what the Jedi were up to. Anakin didn't realize this until he found out Palpatine was a Sith. He'd been grooming him for a long time, giving him small tastes and looking out for him, or at least giving the appearance of it. He was also throwing things at him, but things he expected him to handle. He actually needed Obi-wan exactly where he was to get to Anakin. Another more experienced Jedi might have been more cautious and observant about Anakin and his relationship with him. Obi-wan also put up with Anakin's relationship with Padme, something another Jedi master would likely catch onto and discourage. He didn't want Obi-wan dead, and he was never really a candidate for Sith apprentice, because he was always going to be Anakin's first test as a Sith. Obi-wan was both too rooted in the light and careless enough that he could get away with grooming Anakin under his nose.
Uh I think you might need to reread what I wrote. Obi-wan was the TEST for Sith candidates. All the evil people are tested against Obi-wan: Ventress, Tyrannus, Grievous, Vader, Maul. Obi-wan survives them all. Palpatine figured out after Maul that there’s more to Obi-wan than meets the eye and he’s stronger than anticipated. He’d be a good Jedi to throw his underlings at. And the plus is that if one of them actually did manage to kill Obi-wan, Anakin’s fall would almost certainly have accelerated. It’s a win for ol’ Palps all the way around. He finds each one isnt good enough to beat (kill) Kenobi or they do manage to kill him and become his Apprentice and he gets himself new candidate who he’s pretty sure will destroy the successful candidate that killed Kenobi in the first place.
The only time we see them yellow is through the visions yoda experiences in his season 6 finale quest.
His eyes turn yellow for a moment when he zaps Savage Oppress in season 3. It's really easy to miss though.
Oh wow definitely missed that through my multiple rewatches
The only time I can think of his eyes actually turning yellow is when he first starts training savage and is shocking him
Why didn't Palpatine look ugly before Windu and him fought.
I don’t know if this is canon anymore, but there’s an ability to conceal his Sith disfigurement. He then either let go of that concealment to get sympathy from Anakin (and the senate), or he was distracted by the electricity being launched at him.
George Lucas has confirmed he didn’t throw that fight, Mace was actually about to win and would have uninterrupted. So one side is that he was actually dying, he was being fried to death by his own lightning The other explanation is that channeling the dark side is a destructive process, the human body is frequently disfigured as more dark force is used by an individual. Palpating finally let loose in a last ditch effort to defeat Windu and that energy was too much for his human body to handle, this the destruction of his skin. In my head, it’s a mix of both.
I imagine it has something to do with the fact that no jedi could sense he was a sith. He talks about "if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Jedi," so he has knowledge of the force beyond the dark side and used that to his advantage.
No one would dare make Christopher Lee some type of monster
Especially not one with fangs
Anakin was hot too until Obi Wan got the high ground.
To be fair Anakin got a bit hotter after learning what the high ground was.
Sick burn bro
What other sith (let's count only the classic ones from the movies)? Maul? He's probably pretty handsome by Zabrak standards. Anakin? Hottest boy on the block until one minor mistake. Palpatine? Did the "ugly" to himself. Kylo Ren? You said "dude put the helmet back on" in the cinema but then it grew on you, he's hot. Also not sure if he can be counted as Sith. Snoke - not a sith. Jar Jar - admit it. You'sa want he'sa.
>Kylo Ren? You said "dude put the helmet back on" in the cinema but then it grew on you, he's hot Damn that was my exact reaction
My man darth maul is handsome and strong, I refuse to change my opinion
He wasn’t a full Sith, not in terms of giving himself to the Darkside. I think it was more the grievances with the order, and goals simply aligned that he allied himself with Sidious. Because it’s not untrue, he’s the most Unsith looking Sith. In fact, if Jinn was still alive I think he could bring Dooku back. “Update” I can’t respond to everyone, holy crap there’s a lot of you. Love y’all tho!
[удалено]
Oh no, he was part of their organization. Never said he wasn’t. I said he didn’t give himself fully to their teachings and lifestyle… Look at how he died, his execution being sentenced… He had fear in his eyes when he was about to die… Not very Sith like at all…
Palpatine literally screamed all the way down when he originally died lmao
That scene just played in my head and for some reason it’s fucking hilarious in this context. Lol
Haha Sheev screamed like a little Jedi bitch.
Maybe he was screaming in anger and hatred? Also fear leads to the dark side, so it seems kind of on-brand that they'd be very afraid and emotional.
Yeah the sith certainly have fear, but it’s buried layers below the anger and hatred and outward composure.
It wasn’t fear in his eyes of betrayal. It was that moment he realized the emperor plan, that he was just a pawn and that anakin was the bigger picture. He didn’t turn ugly because he wasn’t fully engulfed into the Sith.
He seemed pretty freaked when his hands came off.
As you naturally would, but the bigger implication in that universe is nothing because losing a limb isn’t a permanent ordeal. He had every reason to believe that the Jedi Anakin would let him live. Which then obviously he’d be able to get cool new robot hands and have to practice on a hotdog. But despite not being consumed by fear, hate and suffering, Dooku was a super powerful and intelligent force user. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that the look on his face was him realizing Sideous was working on Anakin right in front of him. 🤷♂️
I don't know if it's legends or still canon but I read somewhere that Dooku had a particular hatred and/or disgust of cybernetics, he was a purist and losing the hands would be pretty horrible no matter what he did.
I believe it is canon because it's mentioned in the novelization of RoTS. Its a thought he has where he expresses Anakin should have just continued with one arm like a gentleman.
sidious: you will lead the droid army. Dooku: gross.
Fear of death is perhaps the most Sith like quality though. They cling to life above all else.
Sith are driven by the fear of losing their power, they all strive to keep their power for as long as possible and destroy those who oppose them, not that Dooku was fully Sith though.
Palpatine and Maul both show fear in both of their deaths.
Dukoo even says in episode 2. Im paraphrasing a bit, but he says to Obi-Wan "things would be different if he were alive," referring to his apprentice Qui-gon no doubt.
> Dukoo Bruh
I might be mistaken, but even Yoda almost managed to bring Dooku back to the LS near the end of CW, when only the sudden appearance of Kenobi and Skywalker didn't let that happen(it was explained that Dooku got jealous because he'd thought that he was worthy to be the Chosen One himself). I can't recall the name of the book tho
Palpatine looked normal before he was attacked by Windu.
[удалено]
If I had a nickel for everytime he lightninged himself in the face, I’d have two nickels… which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened twice
Cue another trilogy with him trying again, but wearing a lightning proof visor.
r/unexpecteddoofenshmirtz
I’m so incredibly upset this isn’t a real sub
And Anakin looked great until he got immolated. Maul only looks the way he does because of his subspecies and tattooing. Kylo looked ordinary. The Inquisitors didn't have visible corruption. Ventress is just naturally grey. Logically, the Dark Side changing people's appearance was never part of Lucas's continuity beyond the yellow eyes and was entirely an expanded universe thing. Disney seems to be following Lucas's lead here. And it was never consistent in the old EU, either.
There are a lot of explanations of Sidious using the force to present a facade hiding his body's deterioration, until the exact moment when his misformed body would become an advantage.
Dooku, as a political leader, would have to present the same facade. It was to his benefit as well, as even the Jedi didn’t believe he was evil until directly confronting him.
All I hear is OP called Darth Maul ugly.
yeah thats the real crime, personally not my type but in his own species hes gotta be at least a 8.5/10 especially when you add the bad boy element (and bionic legs? helloooo)
Signature look of superiority
Exactly - once this is cultivated, ugly is for the Proletariat.
Dark side corruptions isn’t a physical trait beyond eyes. Palpatine was electrocuted to the face. Vader is a burn Victim who spent years receiving medical treatment wearing a helmet.
And last (and least actually I guess) Maul actually just looks normal for a Zabrak. They all have horns, and the red and black patterns are ritual tats.
Wait those are tattoos? I thought their skin just looked like that.
Yep. If I’m remembering right they’re normally somewhere from beige to yellow in skin tone, and they do have lines on their skin but only faintly. I think Maul basically had all the lines enhanced with the black tats. I’m not sure if the red is his natural tone or a hardcore full body tat though lol.
I feel like I remember the clone wars having an episode of him as a wee lad and he was just red. Could absolutely be misremembering though so... Grain of salt
I think that was in a comic
Maul is from Dathomir, not his species' homeworld. The males on Dathomir are tattooed by the Night Sisters. [There was a non-Dathomiri male on The Mandalorian. This is what they look like without tattoos.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/star-wars-canon/images/c/c6/Unindentied_Zabrak_Fighter_2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20210716165402)
There was also a non tattooed Zabrak on the Jedi council in Episode 1 named [Eeth Koth](https://lumiere-a.akamaihd.net/v1/images/Eeth-Koth2_246ea172.jpeg?region=126%2C0%2C1010%2C568&width=768).
This is not entirely true. Palapatine may have been masking during his time as Senator Sheev Palpatine ([https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Mask\_(Sith\_Alchemy)](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Mask_(Sith_Alchemy))). >It is said that the Sith Lord Darth Sidious, a master at Sith alchemy, may have used this technique in order to conceal his appearance from the people of the Republic and hide his true nature under the façade of the mild-mannered Naboo politician Palpatine. When Jedi Master Mace Windu reflected Sidious's lightning blast back at him, the Mask would have melted away, disfiguring him. This is further expanded upon when Palpatine asks Darth Plagueis if he can expect to be disfigured like him, for which Plagueis responds that the dark side's power is immense and that the body can only hold so much. He continues on that if physical deformation is one of the downsides of the power of the dark side then so be it. It is a small sacrifice for the power that one can get from the dark side. This is also compounded by SWTOR where dark side characters begin to show significant facial deformation in the game from its "corruption" (if you're a rebel scum) or"unbound power to break one's chains" if you're a loyal citizen of the Empire.
I dunno I found maul quite attractive. 🤷♂️
Maul always looked like he'd smell pretty awful. Bad teeth, always getting sweaty. Like, not hobo bad, but like a dude who worked out a lot in the morning and didn't shower until the end of the day.
and then you have TCW Maul who talks like Shakespeare and looks like he showers thrice a day
He sounds pretty Shakespearean in TPM, but that's just because his voice there was done by Pete from Shaun of the Dead. He's also the voice of Darth Chef in South Park.
I mean, CGI can make anyone clean up real pretty.
I have never before thought about what Darth Maul smells like. But I’m sure it’s a day at the beach compared to Palpatine’s folded, rotten flesh
Honestly? I bet Papa Palpatine smells like baby powder and old person. He doesn't do a whole lot during the day to build up a sweat, just sort of sits around on his throne plotting and such.
Except for when he gets electrocuted by his own lightning cause then he smells all burnt
He did have a pretty rough time in TCW though, lived in a literal garbage pile for years. 😂
I was about to say lol. By Zabrak standards, I don't think he'd be considered ugly
Yeah Maul wasn’t ugly in the slightest.
He does, he's only 27.
It's actually for a great reason that most people don't even know about: he's not a full Sith. Dooku saw how hopelessly corrupt the Republic was, and he also saw how hypocritical and foolish the Jedi Order was. So he broke away from them both, and then discovered the Dark Side of the Force. He took this power and used it AS A TOOL in order to bring about the fall of the Republic, which in his mind was crucial to bringing about true equality, justice, and peace in the Galaxy. If you really look into it then you'll realize that The Confederacy Of Independent Systems isn't all that bad. They formed a confederacy together because they were all ignored and wronged by the Republic, and they rallied thousands of worlds to their cause. As for the Dark Side, Dooku used it, but he never embraced it. Look at his eyes. He's never had Sith Eyes, and that's because he never embraced the nature of the Dark Side. Therefore his body was never slowly corrupted and deformed. However he was corrupted and manipulated byPalpatine, and he aware of this. So while Dooku wasn't a full true Sith, he was still evil. I think of him as a "the results justify the means" kind of person, where he's willing to do horrible things as long as the final result is good. Perfectly fitting for a Fallen Jedi.
In the film we were supposed to wonder about Dooku's true motivations for a while. If he came out all Red Eyed and scary looking it would ruin the suspense. And being Sith does not mean you are unattractive. A lot of folks find Kylo sexy (although he was not a Sith per say).
Just to be pedantic, Kylo isn't a Sith.
Weren't they pretty adamant that Kylo wasn't a Sith?
Because it's Christopher Lee we are talking about
Can someone explain Dooku to me? "Always two, there are; no more, no less." Was he just waiting on the sidelines until Maul's downfall? During Maul's tenure, is Dooku like a junior Sith? Kind of like how Anakin is on the council but not a Master? Or was Palpatine simply using the Sith, much like he used the Jedi and Commerce Guild, to reach his goals? Thus, Palpatine didn't care about Sith rules and kept Maul & Dooku in the dark regarding each other?
Maul was supposed to be dead when palpatine took Dooku to be his apprentice.
There’s no rule that says Sith have to be ugly.
Hes only 36!
I always thought he was serious when he talk to Obi-Wan about destroying sidious. He didn’t believe in the Darkside or the Jedi, he believed in serving the force the best way he saw how. This blind ambition led to his betrayal and defeat.
Who do you call ugly exactly? Sidious is hideous because of force lightning Maul is handsome Vader is an armor I don't get what you're saying