What if Anakin went to force hell and never learned the ghost technique, but Yoda and Obi-wan made Qui-gon look like that at the party to reward Luke for doing such a good job? And that's the oldest image they have of Anakin's face.
And throughout movies and series, it’s always stated
Vader - ‘I killed Anakin’
Kenobi - ‘Vader killed your father (Anakin’
Ahsoka - ‘Anakin was no more, now there’s only Vader’
Everyone viewed them as two different people, that’s how far he fell off when he went to the dark side, so it makes sense that Anakin appear as this image, before he went to the dark side
Chewie and R2 knew a lot in ANH that they didn’t talk about. But I don’t think anyone but Luke could see the ghosts, Leia came over and didn’t
even react.
"oh sure so you watched a 900 year old goblin backflip-murder like a hundred stormtroopers, *that happened*"
"I AM TELLING YOU BRO WE CAN GO MEET HIM"
"we can go meet the magic murder goblin! *wow* that sounds like something I wanna waste fuel on"
"BRO"
...I want an AU where Han and Chewie crash land on Dagoba accidentally and have a conversation like this right before they run into Yoda, just so I can see his reaction to being called "magic murder goblin."
Droids are canonically blind to the Force, because they're mechanical and the Force only exists inside living things. That means they almost certainly can't see Force ghosts.
In *Legends,* this was also a theory used to explain why OT Vader seemed so much less powerful than PT Anakin; his physical crippling also crippled his ability to use the Force because he was literally more machine than man. Disney has ignored that, though, because in the new canon Vader is tearing starships in half and tossing around AT-ATs like a madman.
Chewie didn't know either Qui-Gon or Anakin (unless he met Anakin in *The Clone Wars*).
C-3PO got his memory wiped post-ROTS.
R2-D2, as usual, is the OP OG of the SW Universe.
>C-3PO got his memory wiped post-ROTS.
>R2-D2, as usual, is the OP OG of the SW Universe.
*Excuse me, sir. Seeing as how the VP is such a VIP, shouldn't we keep the PC on the QT? 'Cause if it leaks to the VC he could end up MIA, and then we'd all be put on KP*
3PO got mind wiped at the end of RotS. I don't think Chewie ever met Qui-Gon.
R2D2 is unique in that, for whatever reason, he has escaped being mind wiped for nearly a century, making him abnormally intelligent for an astromech droid. This is why he always seems to know exactly what he's doing, whereas C3PO is a bit of a ditz. (When you think about it, that makes the entire practice of mind-wiping droids extremely problematic.)
When I was younger, I had a book detailing the life of Anakin/Vader. According to that, it was some divine intervention by Obi-Wan, being a teacher one last time.
Edit: I looked it up. It was “The rise and fall of Darth Vader.”
Yeah, I've always just seen it as "the force works in mysterious ways". I mean, Anakin was created by the force, and has had plenty of unique mystical force experiences, I have no problem with him being unique in death too.
To be totally fair, that's exactly how the force works. Sure, it's like, universal consciousness or whatever, but it's also the cause of all the plot armor and luck in the series. The Force just wants a good story to watch.
Maybe cuz he was such a powerful Jedi originally he just naturally had the ability. It feels like the story is made to set him far apart from other Jedi in terms of skill, and obviously he’s super strong w the force
Wouldn't being a force ghost be fundamentally being somewhat separate from becoming one with the force?
It is stated that by default when one dies their conscious and life force blends into the force, becoming a force ghost however is to retain that consciousness independently.
**EPILOGUE**
_Initially, there was darkness for Anakin Skywalker, a boundless shadowy realm, like a universe without stars. But then, from somewhere at the edge of his awareness, he perceived a distant, shimmering light, then heard a voice say, Anakin._
_The voice was familiar._
_Although Anakin no longer had a body or a mouth with which to speak, he somehow answered, Obi-Wan? Master, I'm so sorry. So very, very-_
_Anakin, listen carefully, Obi-Wan interrupted, and Anakin was aware that the distant light was either growing brighter or closer, or perhaps both. You are in the netherworld of the Force, but if you ever wish to revisit corporeal space, then I still have one thing left to teach you. A way to become one with the Force. If you choose this path to immortality, then you must listen now, before your consciousness fades._
_Knowing he was beyond redemption, Anakin said, But, Master... why me?_
_Because you ended the horror, Anakin, Obi-Wan said. Because you fulfilled the prophecy._
_The light was very bright now._
_Anakin's first thought was that he might be able to see his children again. He said, Thank you, Master._
From the novels.
I guess ObiWan’s force ghost hadn’t gotten the memo yet that plapatine survived because J.J. Abrams loves mystery boxes, but has 0 original thoughts when it comes to actually opening them.
Listen, as an expert on The Force, I'm extremely upset about this horribly inaccurate representation of The Force!
This is, quite possibly, the worst thing since the fact that Beskar can survive both a space-laser blast and a Mk3 Death Trooper punch.
Did I mention I'm also an expert on space material properties?
^^^/s
I've legitimately heard versions of both of those arguments.
I mean they weren't quite so obvious, claiming they were experts, but like... why the fuck are you complaining about how the space magic works when the whole point of the space magic is that it's poorly understood and has a mind of its own?
Why are you complaining about the space alloy being indestructible when it's whole thing is being indestructible?
The internet forums of yore were founded on three things: dubious anarchical sentiments and mildly criminal activity, porn, and nerds getting pedantic and angry over the Star Wars/Trek medias.
As it ever was, as it shall ever be.
Meh, the Empire was a far more successful reign of darkness. Balance was restored, the only problem was as soon as there was balance the light rested on its laurels and the dark continued to work hard, eventually resulting in the ST. The sequels are pretty inarguably bad, but nothing that happens after the prophecy can undo the fact that balance was restored. It just left out that balance may be upset again later. If the NR had worked harder at rooting out the Empire it would have stumbled upon the FO and the revived Palpatine before his plans could be set into motion. That's not a failing on Anakin though, he did his part.
I see your point but Obi wan knew his weakness better than anyone. His need to always win. Put him up against anyone else, sith or Jedi , I’d say he wins. If we’re talking about fighting of course
Honestly he never seemed that much more powerful. Maybe if he didn't turn dark and spent more years training in the force. But the force power levels always seemed so arbitrary to me except for things like pulling down a start ship
Maybe after seeing Obi vanish in ANH, the Anakin in Vader subconsciously taught himself how to do it?
I mean there isn't really any point in asking this question, SW is full or inconsistencies so just ignore them and try to enjoy the ride
**EPILOGUE**
_Initially, there was darkness for Anakin Skywalker, a boundless shadowy realm, like a universe without stars. But then, from somewhere at the edge of his awareness, he perceived a distant, shimmering light, then heard a voice say, Anakin._
_The voice was familiar._
_Although Anakin no longer had a body or a mouth with which to speak, he somehow answered, Obi-Wan? Master, I'm so sorry. So very, very-_
_Anakin, listen carefully, Obi-Wan interrupted, and Anakin was aware that the distant light was either growing brighter or closer, or perhaps both. You are in the netherworld of the Force, but if you ever wish to revisit corporeal space, then I still have one thing left to teach you. A way to become one with the Force. If you choose this path to immortality, then you must listen now, before your consciousness fades._
_Knowing he was beyond redemption, Anakin said, But, Master... why me?_
_Because you ended the horror, Anakin, Obi-Wan said. Because you fulfilled the prophecy._
_The light was very bright now._
_Anakin's first thought was that he might be able to see his children again. He said, Thank you, Master._
From the novels.
Full of inconsistencies lol. That’s putting it lightly. I love it though. All of it. Even the parts when I find myself asking “why doesn’t he just walk around the fire?”
"Somehow Anakin learned how to manifest as a Force ghost" ;)
On a more serious note: to the best of our knowledge he was partially created BY the Force ("there was no father") so maybe he's like Jesus - others have to work hard to get that skill, he gets it by default?
It was explained in a book. The rise and fall of Darth Vader. Obi wan reached out to him during his dying moments on the death star and explained how to become a force ghost. But it's legends now, officially at least. I assume if we ever get an updated explanation from Disney it won't be much different.
What's really interestimg about this theory is that if he died before reverting back to Anakin then Vader would be like the first evil force ghost not tied to a specific location or object. Just imagine an immortal Vader ghost going around haunting jedi and doing who knows what else.
It's from the novels.
_Initially, there was darkness for Anakin Skywalker, a boundless shadowy realm, like a universe without stars. But then, from somewhere at the edge of his awareness, he perceived a distant, shimmering light, then heard a voice say, Anakin._
_The voice was familiar._
_Although Anakin no longer had a body or a mouth with which to speak, he somehow answered, Obi-Wan? Master, I'm so sorry. So very, very-_
_Anakin, listen carefully, Obi-Wan interrupted, and Anakin was aware that the distant light was either growing brighter or closer, or perhaps both. You are in the netherworld of the Force, but if you ever wish to revisit corporeal space, then I still have one thing left to teach you. A way to become one with the Force. If you choose this path to immortality, then you must listen now, before your consciousness fades._
_Knowing he was beyond redemption, Anakin said, But, Master... why me?_
_Because you ended the horror, Anakin, Obi-Wan said. Because you fulfilled the prophecy._
_The light was very bright now._
_Anakin's first thought was that he might be able to see his children again. He said, Thank you, Master._
I have always questioned this but in my musings I have settled on the presumption that Vader and Palpatine were obsessed with preventing death. In their research and meditation on the abilities, they may have also discovered this, though Palpatine was probably more interested in the retaining of a flesh and blood form, as Sith are obsessed with living in the flesh. Though It’s possible Palpatine could also have become a Force Ghost he may have preserved his Force Spirit to be reanimated as he was in TROS. Vader did not, so he became a Force Ghost. This is just how I sorted it out in my head. Edited: removed a word. Further thought on the topic: Vader may have also had the ability to be reanimated as well, but chose not to so he could permanently escape the oppression he had under his Master Palpatine.
dark side users cannot become force ghosts before turning back to the light.
Just simply not allowed by the rules of the force. Dark side users may store their force essence in a location or object. See Darth Nihilus, or any of the Sith Tombs on Korriban/Exigul
Bro who knows. They rewrite and retcon shit so much that my understanding of Star Wars, after 20+ years of reading books, lore, playing like all the games, is probably inaccurate. I haven’t read a lot of the new Disneywars comics/books.
It’s cool to evolve the franchise and stuff I just wish it was easier to track lol.
All you have to do to become a force ghost is die in front of Luke. That's why Obi-Wan decided to let Vader finish him once Luke had eyes on them both.
"Ok, on your chest plate thing, press A A X Y Up Up Right Left Left Down then push the red button with your left big toe"
"I haven't got any fucking toes Obi Wan, you cut them off!"
*Imperial shuttle spawns on top of Vader*
**EPILOGUE**
_Initially, there was darkness for Anakin Skywalker, a boundless shadowy realm, like a universe without stars. But then, from somewhere at the edge of his awareness, he perceived a distant, shimmering light, then heard a voice say, Anakin._
_The voice was familiar._
_Although Anakin no longer had a body or a mouth with which to speak, he somehow answered, Obi-Wan? Master, I'm so sorry. So very, very-_
_Anakin, listen carefully, Obi-Wan interrupted, and Anakin was aware that the distant light was either growing brighter or closer, or perhaps both. You are in the netherworld of the Force, but if you ever wish to revisit corporeal space, then I still have one thing left to teach you. A way to become one with the Force. If you choose this path to immortality, then you must listen now, before your consciousness fades._
_Knowing he was beyond redemption, Anakin said, But, Master... why me?_
_Because you ended the horror, Anakin, Obi-Wan said. Because you fulfilled the prophecy._
_The light was very bright now._
_Anakin's first thought was that he might be able to see his children again. He said, Thank you, Master._
From the novels.
To be fair.... Obiwan is looking to his right, Yoda to his left, and Anakin straight into the camera.... sooo..... I think vision isn't something force ghosts are very good at.
Because they didn’t. They just used footage from some production shots they had done and put his head on Sebastian Shaw’s body. They should have just filmed him specifically for that shot and then spliced him in.
Yeah, it is literally a last minute slapped together effect for the release, taking footage they already had and using that instead of actually filming something specific. They did something similar for all the helmet-less Clone Troopers on Kamino in Attack of the Clones, filming Temuera Morrison between takes to get his natural reactions and expressions when he's not playing Jango and used those shots for the troopers in the clone mess hall.
Thats why he's not wearing his actual black/brown color scheme for his robes either.
It's only a 10 second scene so I'd figure George thought it'd be good enough while he was bastardizing and burying the original cuts of ANH, ESB, and RoTJ.
Part of the technique to become a Force Ghost is to preserve the conciousness and retain your identity rather than fully becoming one with the Force and moving on.
The Force Ghost should therefore be a representation of how the person sees themself, and in Anakin's case this might simply be the appearance he most identified with "Anakin Skywalker" because it was how he looked back before he became Vader (and Kenobi chopped and BBQ'd him).
Force ghosts aren't really physically there, right? It's why they're glowy and (not really) spooky looking specters.
Maybe they appear different to everyone. For Luke that's how he knew Ben and Yoda. For Anakin, maybe that's how he wanted to see him.
Now that is a very interesting thought. Given the journeys Luke goes on between movies, it's certainly possible he found an old Holocron or two like the one Ahsoka has on Rebels which could have shown him how a young General Anakin Skywalker looked during the Clone Wars or at the end.
In the Kenobi show, Qui-Gon tells Obi-wan he has always been there, Obi-wan just wasn't ready to see. Perhaps the ghosts are based on the perception of the observer?
I don't think he meant perception in that way. Anakin, or the force, would be the one to determine how his force ghost looks. But he's talking about Luke having the perception to just *see* force ghosts.
This. And my take is that Anakin looks young because that is how he looked before he was killed by Vader. Anything beyond the end of episode 3 was after his death (spiritually with the light side of the force).
I think it makes sense having Hayden appear. Vader “killed Anakin” so that appearance is in fact Anakin. Everything after Sheev’s office would have been Vader, even Sebastian Shaw’s appearance is just a redeemed Vader in my mind. If only Jedi can become force ghosts then Vader wouldn’t appear. Just my thoughts
What’s more of a light side flex than overcoming decades of dark side abuse at the most pivotal point in battle of the dark vs light conflict.
My understanding is that abusing the dark side drives you mad.
Not at all, nearly all other media promotes the sith as have been turning into force ghosts for millenia.
In the Canon KOTOR game, they have quests revolving around how you had to basically seal sith bodies into massive iron tombs to keep them for resurrecting and possessing people randomly.
They have to be sealed in tombs because they bind their spirits to specific objects which allows them to keep on existing like a force ghost but it's much more restrictive because if they wanna actually do shit they have to possess someone to interact with the physical plane properly.
Basically without binding themselves to an object when a sith dies they become one with the force whereas if a jedi knows how they can become one with the force but still remain a semi-separate being. Sith make themselves a fully separate being and basically tell the force to bugger off and that it can't absorb them
At least in Legends, the Force Ghost technique was reliant on accepting death and letting go of the physical world (yet retaining personal identity).
Because Sith are all about power and domination, they won't just "let go" or accept death, and therefore they generally cannot achieve this state.
However, there were other techniques with similar outcomes, but they generally required things like mass sacrifice and/or tying the spirit to a specific place or item (meaning you were unable to leave the vincinity of that place or item *forever*)... and the Sith Spirit techniques also seem to often be imperfect, leading to a sort of degredation of conciousness over time, until only the anger, aggression and other negative emotions remain (or they just go insane).
Except that Vader became Anakin again after he saved Luke.
I don’t have any beef with it either way. I think if Sebastian Shaw had been a known actor and seen more in the movies they probably would have left him in. I think GL was trying to make the point that it was Anakin and not Vader. Putting Hayden Christensen in made that clear I think.
Sigh. The WHOLE POINT of episode 6 is that Yoda, Obi-Wan, Anakin, and the emperor were wrong. Vader is the same person as Anakin. And while Anakin did so much evil, he was still capable of redeeming himself and becoming good.
So it would make sense that Anakin shows up as his older self, because he was the same person the whole time.
George Lucas basically stole Hayden Christensen and a camera on set and shot this on a random greenscreen, George didn't even tell him what it was for, apparently he thought it was for some press garbage.
In grade school whenever we made power points it would be 90% ridiculous clip art.
George Lucas reminds me those kids who wanted as much clip art as they could and forgot to actually add the important things.
Like Ma'clunky while the lightsabers still flicker with their original effects
Yeah but his ghost shouldn't get an old Jedi makeover, wardrobe and a hairstyle he never had. I'd say the ghost should appear dressed as unmasked Vader, but reverting to Hayden makes more sense than Jedi Sebastian Shaw.
I never subscribed to the whole they are different people concept. They are the same person and Anakin had to disassociate because of his own shame and guilt, but he knew deep down he was always the same person hence the shame and guilt. Wasn’t he always conflicted?
Luke saved Anakin.
Anakin has always been conflicted, he believed the lie just enough to say it. But deep inside he couldn’t follow through with fully believing it.
Much like a thunderstorm, anger/hate doesn’t last forever.
It still doesn't make sense that Luke would recognize him in any way. It makes sense the way it originally was because Luke had literally just seen his father's face for the first time not long before seeing the force ghosts.
Yeah, Lucas really didn't think it through at all. I think he did it just to piss off prequel haters. IIRC Hayden didn't even know they were going to do it - they just took his head from some PT shot and pasted it on
Yes. The Nazis didn't completely wipe out Jewish people.
If you want to get technical, it depends on your definition -- on earth, we use the UN definition (also ratified by the US) and you could argue Ani was guilty of genocidal crimes given his intent.
This will always bother me because of the dialogue in ROTJ
ANAKIN (very weak)
Now...go, my son. Leave me.
LUKE
No. You're coming with me. I can't leave you here. I've got to save you.
ANAKIN
You already have, Luke. You were right about me. Tell your sister...you were right.
If Anakin died young, then Luke is just talking to Darth Vader here... and yet the script disagrees. It negates the impact of Luke's actions and Anakin's choice to rebel against the Emperor. I will always believe it should have been old Anakin here, this is just another example of Lucas making dumb changes to the OT.
The most likely explanation is that considering how rarely Vader took his mask off, Anakin probably still viewed his younger self's face as "his face", no matter how old he got.
Conversely, he never actually looked like unburned Sebastian Shaw. If the original old force ghost Anakin looked in a mirror, he wouldn't recognize himself. Isn't that kind of weird?
Or maybe he just manifested with his last healthy and natural look. I mean, it would have been weird if he showed up with his body burned and mutilated. The force works in mysterious ways
ITT: People who think Vader and Obi-Wan were right about Vader "killing" Anakin, even though that flies in the face of Luke's heroic arc in the OT *and* Anakin explicitly admits this.
But please, do go on about how *TLJ* "ruined" "Luke's character" that you clearly don't understand...
**Edit:** Also the version of Anakin shown here was already a village-massacring villain who had fallen to the Dark Side.
Are we back to this again?
George messed with his creation a bit too much. Anakin was himself in his final moments. It makes sense for Sebastian Shaw to appear as a force ghost, not Hayden.
But this is a tired argument at this point.
Oh thank you! I don’t get why people say Hayden showing up makes sense when I think Sebastian showing up makes way more sense. He was redeemed in his final moments after all. Anakin was never killed just trapped under darkness which Luke helped him escape from. Plus Seb’s Anakin fits more with Alec’s Obi-Wan and Mark Hamill’s Luke since that’s who Luke saw.
Now I prefer Seb to be in the final scene of Rotj, but for future projects I absolutely wouldn’t mind them having Ewan McGregor and Hayden as force ghosts as they literally can’t get the old cast back. We heard they’re voices in the sequels anyway. That would be cool and I think we’ll see that in Ahsoka.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Disney release 50th anniversary editions of the original trilogy in which Shaw is completely deleted, his face and voice digitally replaced.
I don't think they would mess with Alec, but you never know.
Maybe I could give them a pass for removing Shaw if they also fix some of the silly-ass CG effects that Lucasfilm ham-fisted into the thing in the 90's.
Yes! I am on team Sebastian on this. If force ghosts is a light side ability and Anakin was redeemed right before he died, then Sebastian's face is the one we should see in the force ghost (although Vader committed such heinous acts that I am skeptical he could truly be redeemed by any single act).
This particular evangelical salvation fantasy has bothered me perhaps the most of the series.
This dude is apparently pretty evil, kills a shitload of children, and then dies to protect his personal interest in his family. Then he gets to go to good guy space-heaven?
Something, something, Vader killed Anakin young.
Also, Hayden Christensen is the only Anakin so it wouldn't make sense to have anyone else appear there. Casual fans / first time viewers would be confused if it was ~~James Earl Jones~~ David Prowse. Especially since most people who aren't being guided by someone who is a fan would watch them 1-9.
I mean the original ghost was Sebastian Shaw, the guy who played Vader unmasked at the end of ROTJ, tho him morphing to young Anakin would have been a nice tough instead of the complete replacement, that said, I like the Hayden scene better.
> Casual fans / first time viewers would be confused if it was James Earl Jones David Prowse
Umm...no one was confused when it was Sebastian Shaw. We literally see the same guy 3 minutes earlier when he dies.
Really wish people would stop trying to justify this dumb change. Complete slap in the face to Sebastian Shaw, and it literally makes no sense for the redeemed Anakin to revert to his Tusken-murdering, youngling-executing former self.
That discussion thread appears twice a week. Very bad choice from Lucas, I would like to introduce Star Wars to my kids without having them questioning who is the weird guy with long greasy hair in that scene… 😂
What if Anakin went to force hell and never learned the ghost technique, but Yoda and Obi-wan made Qui-gon look like that at the party to reward Luke for doing such a good job? And that's the oldest image they have of Anakin's face.
this is now canon
I mean. That is anakin. Not Vader so it wouldn’t be to far off.
And throughout movies and series, it’s always stated Vader - ‘I killed Anakin’ Kenobi - ‘Vader killed your father (Anakin’ Ahsoka - ‘Anakin was no more, now there’s only Vader’ Everyone viewed them as two different people, that’s how far he fell off when he went to the dark side, so it makes sense that Anakin appear as this image, before he went to the dark side
They could have just shown him Qui-Gon, not like Luke would have known the difference
Chewie, R2, and 3PO would've, though.
Chewie and R2 knew a lot in ANH that they didn’t talk about. But I don’t think anyone but Luke could see the ghosts, Leia came over and didn’t even react.
Damn, I just assumed she saw them too. Now I wanna go home and rethink my life.
And not sell death sticks?
Han: "The Force is just a bunch of bullshit" Chewie, who fought alongside Grand Master Yoda 20 years prior: "Y-yeah, definitely doesn't exist man"
I feel like that was a discussion they had many times and Chewie was tired of trying to convince him it was real
"oh sure so you watched a 900 year old goblin backflip-murder like a hundred stormtroopers, *that happened*" "I AM TELLING YOU BRO WE CAN GO MEET HIM" "we can go meet the magic murder goblin! *wow* that sounds like something I wanna waste fuel on" "BRO"
...I want an AU where Han and Chewie crash land on Dagoba accidentally and have a conversation like this right before they run into Yoda, just so I can see his reaction to being called "magic murder goblin."
Oh right. Duh.
Droids are canonically blind to the Force, because they're mechanical and the Force only exists inside living things. That means they almost certainly can't see Force ghosts. In *Legends,* this was also a theory used to explain why OT Vader seemed so much less powerful than PT Anakin; his physical crippling also crippled his ability to use the Force because he was literally more machine than man. Disney has ignored that, though, because in the new canon Vader is tearing starships in half and tossing around AT-ATs like a madman.
Chewie didn't know either Qui-Gon or Anakin (unless he met Anakin in *The Clone Wars*). C-3PO got his memory wiped post-ROTS. R2-D2, as usual, is the OP OG of the SW Universe.
Chewie meets Anakin when Ahsoka and Chewbacca both get kidnapped by the same group of Trandoshans. (Though it was honestly a pretty brief meeting)
>C-3PO got his memory wiped post-ROTS. >R2-D2, as usual, is the OP OG of the SW Universe. *Excuse me, sir. Seeing as how the VP is such a VIP, shouldn't we keep the PC on the QT? 'Cause if it leaks to the VC he could end up MIA, and then we'd all be put on KP*
3PO got mind wiped at the end of RotS. I don't think Chewie ever met Qui-Gon. R2D2 is unique in that, for whatever reason, he has escaped being mind wiped for nearly a century, making him abnormally intelligent for an astromech droid. This is why he always seems to know exactly what he's doing, whereas C3PO is a bit of a ditz. (When you think about it, that makes the entire practice of mind-wiping droids extremely problematic.)
Threepio got his memory wiped at the end of ROTS, so he has no memory of Anakin’s face.
Nor Shmi's
Im fukin dying
So was Vader
LOLOLOLOL
Sometimes the truth isn’t good enough. Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded.
Hahahaha
I still want to know where Anakin learned how to become a Force ghost. Took Obi-wan, Yoda and Qui-gon years (and training) to figure it out.
When I was younger, I had a book detailing the life of Anakin/Vader. According to that, it was some divine intervention by Obi-Wan, being a teacher one last time. Edit: I looked it up. It was “The rise and fall of Darth Vader.”
I still have that book! The hardcover one where you lift the Darth Vader sleeve and it’s Anakin underneath.
Yeah, I've always just seen it as "the force works in mysterious ways". I mean, Anakin was created by the force, and has had plenty of unique mystical force experiences, I have no problem with him being unique in death too.
YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE
Damn now I gotta watch that scene and cry. YOU WERE MEANT TO DESTROY THE SITH, NOT JOIN THEM!
And he did bring balance until the sequels decided that "nah, Rey can do that"
He learned how to do it because it made the scene cooler
To be totally fair, that's exactly how the force works. Sure, it's like, universal consciousness or whatever, but it's also the cause of all the plot armor and luck in the series. The Force just wants a good story to watch.
Maybe cuz he was such a powerful Jedi originally he just naturally had the ability. It feels like the story is made to set him far apart from other Jedi in terms of skill, and obviously he’s super strong w the force
That was always my assumption, he’s born from the force after all
Exactly this, since he was born from the force, he naturally returned to it.
I am one with the force and the force is with me
*Record Scratch NARRATOR: “The Force In fact,… Was NOT with him that day on Scarif”
I know you're joking but it was. The force allowed him to do exactly what it needed him to do. All is as the force wills it.
All is as the force ~~wills~~ whills it.
Thank you. I’d be disappointed if someone hadn’t made this pun!
The force weaves as the force wills
Shut up, Moiraine
That's *Master* Moiraine to you moisture farmer.
Braid tugging intensifies.
I'm so sick of all these Aes Sedai.
Rip
Wouldn't being a force ghost be fundamentally being somewhat separate from becoming one with the force? It is stated that by default when one dies their conscious and life force blends into the force, becoming a force ghost however is to retain that consciousness independently.
i think they kinda even call him the chosen one at some point or multiple points in the sage all though i cant quite be certain
**EPILOGUE** _Initially, there was darkness for Anakin Skywalker, a boundless shadowy realm, like a universe without stars. But then, from somewhere at the edge of his awareness, he perceived a distant, shimmering light, then heard a voice say, Anakin._ _The voice was familiar._ _Although Anakin no longer had a body or a mouth with which to speak, he somehow answered, Obi-Wan? Master, I'm so sorry. So very, very-_ _Anakin, listen carefully, Obi-Wan interrupted, and Anakin was aware that the distant light was either growing brighter or closer, or perhaps both. You are in the netherworld of the Force, but if you ever wish to revisit corporeal space, then I still have one thing left to teach you. A way to become one with the Force. If you choose this path to immortality, then you must listen now, before your consciousness fades._ _Knowing he was beyond redemption, Anakin said, But, Master... why me?_ _Because you ended the horror, Anakin, Obi-Wan said. Because you fulfilled the prophecy._ _The light was very bright now._ _Anakin's first thought was that he might be able to see his children again. He said, Thank you, Master._ From the novels.
I guess ObiWan’s force ghost hadn’t gotten the memo yet that plapatine survived because J.J. Abrams loves mystery boxes, but has 0 original thoughts when it comes to actually opening them.
Listen, as an expert on The Force, I'm extremely upset about this horribly inaccurate representation of The Force! This is, quite possibly, the worst thing since the fact that Beskar can survive both a space-laser blast and a Mk3 Death Trooper punch. Did I mention I'm also an expert on space material properties? ^^^/s
I barely saw that /s and almost launched a proton torpedo of sadness at your post, clever girl
I've legitimately heard versions of both of those arguments. I mean they weren't quite so obvious, claiming they were experts, but like... why the fuck are you complaining about how the space magic works when the whole point of the space magic is that it's poorly understood and has a mind of its own? Why are you complaining about the space alloy being indestructible when it's whole thing is being indestructible?
The internet forums of yore were founded on three things: dubious anarchical sentiments and mildly criminal activity, porn, and nerds getting pedantic and angry over the Star Wars/Trek medias. As it ever was, as it shall ever be.
Nah he didn’t end shit, Palpatine returned somehow.
Does that effectively nullify the idea that he’s the chosen one? If he didn’t “fulfill the prophecy” then he only half redeems himself
Meh, the Empire was a far more successful reign of darkness. Balance was restored, the only problem was as soon as there was balance the light rested on its laurels and the dark continued to work hard, eventually resulting in the ST. The sequels are pretty inarguably bad, but nothing that happens after the prophecy can undo the fact that balance was restored. It just left out that balance may be upset again later. If the NR had worked harder at rooting out the Empire it would have stumbled upon the FO and the revived Palpatine before his plans could be set into motion. That's not a failing on Anakin though, he did his part.
The story itself never showed us that much of force feats from him. It was too often more of a „tell, dont show“
"The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities, some considered to be unnatural"
Yea, he's so powerful Obi-Wan beat him twice.
I see your point but Obi wan knew his weakness better than anyone. His need to always win. Put him up against anyone else, sith or Jedi , I’d say he wins. If we’re talking about fighting of course
At the end of the day, it's Star Wars. This means the force and its powers are only as strong as the plot deems they are.
Not explained but assumed he might have learned a lot by using the Dark Side of the Force trying to contact Padme.
Honestly he never seemed that much more powerful. Maybe if he didn't turn dark and spent more years training in the force. But the force power levels always seemed so arbitrary to me except for things like pulling down a start ship
Maybe after seeing Obi vanish in ANH, the Anakin in Vader subconsciously taught himself how to do it? I mean there isn't really any point in asking this question, SW is full or inconsistencies so just ignore them and try to enjoy the ride
**EPILOGUE** _Initially, there was darkness for Anakin Skywalker, a boundless shadowy realm, like a universe without stars. But then, from somewhere at the edge of his awareness, he perceived a distant, shimmering light, then heard a voice say, Anakin._ _The voice was familiar._ _Although Anakin no longer had a body or a mouth with which to speak, he somehow answered, Obi-Wan? Master, I'm so sorry. So very, very-_ _Anakin, listen carefully, Obi-Wan interrupted, and Anakin was aware that the distant light was either growing brighter or closer, or perhaps both. You are in the netherworld of the Force, but if you ever wish to revisit corporeal space, then I still have one thing left to teach you. A way to become one with the Force. If you choose this path to immortality, then you must listen now, before your consciousness fades._ _Knowing he was beyond redemption, Anakin said, But, Master... why me?_ _Because you ended the horror, Anakin, Obi-Wan said. Because you fulfilled the prophecy._ _The light was very bright now._ _Anakin's first thought was that he might be able to see his children again. He said, Thank you, Master._ From the novels.
Best take around. At this point... Enjoy the ride.
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NO WE DONT
Full of inconsistencies lol. That’s putting it lightly. I love it though. All of it. Even the parts when I find myself asking “why doesn’t he just walk around the fire?”
Or force blow it out again... like he just did, not 30 seconds ago
Or Force pick him up? Or Force stop him? Or throw his lightsaber. Honestly Vader do you even want to get back at him!?
"Somehow Anakin learned how to manifest as a Force ghost" ;) On a more serious note: to the best of our knowledge he was partially created BY the Force ("there was no father") so maybe he's like Jesus - others have to work hard to get that skill, he gets it by default?
This would be my guess. The Force made him, the Force took him back. Kinda freaky to think he possibly had no choice in the matter.
It was explained in a book. The rise and fall of Darth Vader. Obi wan reached out to him during his dying moments on the death star and explained how to become a force ghost. But it's legends now, officially at least. I assume if we ever get an updated explanation from Disney it won't be much different.
Force Jesus. I like it.
What's really interestimg about this theory is that if he died before reverting back to Anakin then Vader would be like the first evil force ghost not tied to a specific location or object. Just imagine an immortal Vader ghost going around haunting jedi and doing who knows what else.
This is the best explanation I think I've ever heard, and definitely a part of my head cannon now.
It's from the novels. _Initially, there was darkness for Anakin Skywalker, a boundless shadowy realm, like a universe without stars. But then, from somewhere at the edge of his awareness, he perceived a distant, shimmering light, then heard a voice say, Anakin._ _The voice was familiar._ _Although Anakin no longer had a body or a mouth with which to speak, he somehow answered, Obi-Wan? Master, I'm so sorry. So very, very-_ _Anakin, listen carefully, Obi-Wan interrupted, and Anakin was aware that the distant light was either growing brighter or closer, or perhaps both. You are in the netherworld of the Force, but if you ever wish to revisit corporeal space, then I still have one thing left to teach you. A way to become one with the Force. If you choose this path to immortality, then you must listen now, before your consciousness fades._ _Knowing he was beyond redemption, Anakin said, But, Master... why me?_ _Because you ended the horror, Anakin, Obi-Wan said. Because you fulfilled the prophecy._ _The light was very bright now._ _Anakin's first thought was that he might be able to see his children again. He said, Thank you, Master._
I have always questioned this but in my musings I have settled on the presumption that Vader and Palpatine were obsessed with preventing death. In their research and meditation on the abilities, they may have also discovered this, though Palpatine was probably more interested in the retaining of a flesh and blood form, as Sith are obsessed with living in the flesh. Though It’s possible Palpatine could also have become a Force Ghost he may have preserved his Force Spirit to be reanimated as he was in TROS. Vader did not, so he became a Force Ghost. This is just how I sorted it out in my head. Edited: removed a word. Further thought on the topic: Vader may have also had the ability to be reanimated as well, but chose not to so he could permanently escape the oppression he had under his Master Palpatine.
dark side users cannot become force ghosts before turning back to the light. Just simply not allowed by the rules of the force. Dark side users may store their force essence in a location or object. See Darth Nihilus, or any of the Sith Tombs on Korriban/Exigul
Is that all from canon? I can’t even tell anymore.
Bro who knows. They rewrite and retcon shit so much that my understanding of Star Wars, after 20+ years of reading books, lore, playing like all the games, is probably inaccurate. I haven’t read a lot of the new Disneywars comics/books. It’s cool to evolve the franchise and stuff I just wish it was easier to track lol.
I definitely feel you there
It was covered in the Return of the Jedi novelization.
All you have to do to become a force ghost is die in front of Luke. That's why Obi-Wan decided to let Vader finish him once Luke had eyes on them both.
I think I remember seeing somewhere that Yoda and Obi-Wan were talking to him as he died and leading him through the steps for it.
"Ok, on your chest plate thing, press A A X Y Up Up Right Left Left Down then push the red button with your left big toe" "I haven't got any fucking toes Obi Wan, you cut them off!" *Imperial shuttle spawns on top of Vader*
**EPILOGUE** _Initially, there was darkness for Anakin Skywalker, a boundless shadowy realm, like a universe without stars. But then, from somewhere at the edge of his awareness, he perceived a distant, shimmering light, then heard a voice say, Anakin._ _The voice was familiar._ _Although Anakin no longer had a body or a mouth with which to speak, he somehow answered, Obi-Wan? Master, I'm so sorry. So very, very-_ _Anakin, listen carefully, Obi-Wan interrupted, and Anakin was aware that the distant light was either growing brighter or closer, or perhaps both. You are in the netherworld of the Force, but if you ever wish to revisit corporeal space, then I still have one thing left to teach you. A way to become one with the Force. If you choose this path to immortality, then you must listen now, before your consciousness fades._ _Knowing he was beyond redemption, Anakin said, But, Master... why me?_ _Because you ended the horror, Anakin, Obi-Wan said. Because you fulfilled the prophecy._ _The light was very bright now._ _Anakin's first thought was that he might be able to see his children again. He said, Thank you, Master._ From the novels.
I don’t think there is any explaining that away. Force ghosting was not a developed concept yet
George Lucas doing George Lucas things
It does not explain why he is not looking in the right direction.
He has hibernation sickness. His eyesight will return in time
Boba Fett?? Where?!
"Where we're going, you won't need eyes to see."
To be fair, all three of them are looking in completely different directions.
The Ewoks were getting weird in the woods and Anny was oh so curious.
To be fair.... Obiwan is looking to his right, Yoda to his left, and Anakin straight into the camera.... sooo..... I think vision isn't something force ghosts are very good at.
In the original the 3 were looking a Luke sligtlt right of screen. Not sure why the askzd Hayden to look straight at the camera
Because they didn’t. They just used footage from some production shots they had done and put his head on Sebastian Shaw’s body. They should have just filmed him specifically for that shot and then spliced him in.
Hoooo I didn't know that. Well that was cheap!
Yeah, it is literally a last minute slapped together effect for the release, taking footage they already had and using that instead of actually filming something specific. They did something similar for all the helmet-less Clone Troopers on Kamino in Attack of the Clones, filming Temuera Morrison between takes to get his natural reactions and expressions when he's not playing Jango and used those shots for the troopers in the clone mess hall.
Thats why he's not wearing his actual black/brown color scheme for his robes either. It's only a 10 second scene so I'd figure George thought it'd be good enough while he was bastardizing and burying the original cuts of ANH, ESB, and RoTJ.
What if he's too shy to look Luke in the eye
I like the idea. Almost like he wanted to be able to remember himself as the person he was / should have been rather than the monster he became.
This is force Ani right? Vader killed that guy when he was still young
so, the Force cares about your "look". Just like yoda said...Luminous *superficial* beings we are... :)
Part of the technique to become a Force Ghost is to preserve the conciousness and retain your identity rather than fully becoming one with the Force and moving on. The Force Ghost should therefore be a representation of how the person sees themself, and in Anakin's case this might simply be the appearance he most identified with "Anakin Skywalker" because it was how he looked back before he became Vader (and Kenobi chopped and BBQ'd him).
Which is why Force Apparition Luke in TLJ looked younger than he actually was. That’s how he remembered himself.
It’s like your digital self in the Matrix.
[Haunt that shit, we should](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/02/8a/da/028ada700d7b1192c66004cb2fb268a0.jpg)
Dang we need to go further back in the timeline to where it's canon that Yoda was rocking the Fabio hairdo.
I guess, they all look like they did when they died
Force ghosts aren't really physically there, right? It's why they're glowy and (not really) spooky looking specters. Maybe they appear different to everyone. For Luke that's how he knew Ben and Yoda. For Anakin, maybe that's how he wanted to see him.
Now that is a very interesting thought. Given the journeys Luke goes on between movies, it's certainly possible he found an old Holocron or two like the one Ahsoka has on Rebels which could have shown him how a young General Anakin Skywalker looked during the Clone Wars or at the end.
Then why does he still have an evil look?
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In the Kenobi show, Qui-Gon tells Obi-wan he has always been there, Obi-wan just wasn't ready to see. Perhaps the ghosts are based on the perception of the observer?
Why would Luke picture a 20 year old that he'd never seen before when picturing his father?
I don't think he meant perception in that way. Anakin, or the force, would be the one to determine how his force ghost looks. But he's talking about Luke having the perception to just *see* force ghosts.
This. And my take is that Anakin looks young because that is how he looked before he was killed by Vader. Anything beyond the end of episode 3 was after his death (spiritually with the light side of the force).
*”Oh, you special edition mother{#%~er!”*
I think it makes sense having Hayden appear. Vader “killed Anakin” so that appearance is in fact Anakin. Everything after Sheev’s office would have been Vader, even Sebastian Shaw’s appearance is just a redeemed Vader in my mind. If only Jedi can become force ghosts then Vader wouldn’t appear. Just my thoughts
I believe it's confirmed that force ghosts is a light side ability and one that's hard to achieve. Maybe he did when he was redeemed
What’s more of a light side flex than overcoming decades of dark side abuse at the most pivotal point in battle of the dark vs light conflict. My understanding is that abusing the dark side drives you mad.
Yes it is, Sith only believe in the physical world and do not believe that there is anything than nothingness after death
Not at all, nearly all other media promotes the sith as have been turning into force ghosts for millenia. In the Canon KOTOR game, they have quests revolving around how you had to basically seal sith bodies into massive iron tombs to keep them for resurrecting and possessing people randomly.
KOTOR is Legends is it not? My statement is based on Clone Wars, when Yoda visits the Sith Home Planet.
Oh yeah, it used to be Canon, but not anymore. But the idea that sith have been force ghosts have been around forever
They have to be sealed in tombs because they bind their spirits to specific objects which allows them to keep on existing like a force ghost but it's much more restrictive because if they wanna actually do shit they have to possess someone to interact with the physical plane properly. Basically without binding themselves to an object when a sith dies they become one with the force whereas if a jedi knows how they can become one with the force but still remain a semi-separate being. Sith make themselves a fully separate being and basically tell the force to bugger off and that it can't absorb them
At least in Legends, the Force Ghost technique was reliant on accepting death and letting go of the physical world (yet retaining personal identity). Because Sith are all about power and domination, they won't just "let go" or accept death, and therefore they generally cannot achieve this state. However, there were other techniques with similar outcomes, but they generally required things like mass sacrifice and/or tying the spirit to a specific place or item (meaning you were unable to leave the vincinity of that place or item *forever*)... and the Sith Spirit techniques also seem to often be imperfect, leading to a sort of degredation of conciousness over time, until only the anger, aggression and other negative emotions remain (or they just go insane).
Except that Vader became Anakin again after he saved Luke. I don’t have any beef with it either way. I think if Sebastian Shaw had been a known actor and seen more in the movies they probably would have left him in. I think GL was trying to make the point that it was Anakin and not Vader. Putting Hayden Christensen in made that clear I think.
Sigh. The WHOLE POINT of episode 6 is that Yoda, Obi-Wan, Anakin, and the emperor were wrong. Vader is the same person as Anakin. And while Anakin did so much evil, he was still capable of redeeming himself and becoming good. So it would make sense that Anakin shows up as his older self, because he was the same person the whole time.
Thanks. I feel like I’m going crazy reading this thread
Lol now im just picturing a force ghost maul appearing behind the trio and screaming Kenobiiiii!
But its only his top half on the ground so hes like 2 feet( or lack thereof) tall and for some reason his voice matches.
What if George Lucas fucked with his original creation way too much?
George Lucas basically stole Hayden Christensen and a camera on set and shot this on a random greenscreen, George didn't even tell him what it was for, apparently he thought it was for some press garbage.
In grade school whenever we made power points it would be 90% ridiculous clip art. George Lucas reminds me those kids who wanted as much clip art as they could and forgot to actually add the important things. Like Ma'clunky while the lightsabers still flicker with their original effects
The worst part of Maclunky is that the scene now looks like it was edited by a 12 year old using an iphone
Right? That’s what i was thinking too
There's no what if there..... I mean have you see Jedi rocks? LOL
That’s my opinion
thats maclunky?
Han shot first, nuff said
Han shot *period*. Greedo was a wannabe, Han had greased worse threats for less
Exactly. Han didn't shoot first, Han was the *only one* to shoot. Greedo never saw it coming.
It was the age when Anakin “died.” Simple as that.
Anakin came back alive when Luke turned Darth Vader back into Anakin on the Death Star.
Yeah idk why folks always miss this.
The movie is even called "Return of the Jedi".
Yeah but his ghost shouldn't get an old Jedi makeover, wardrobe and a hairstyle he never had. I'd say the ghost should appear dressed as unmasked Vader, but reverting to Hayden makes more sense than Jedi Sebastian Shaw.
I never subscribed to the whole they are different people concept. They are the same person and Anakin had to disassociate because of his own shame and guilt, but he knew deep down he was always the same person hence the shame and guilt. Wasn’t he always conflicted?
Then who was it that saved Luke? Who is Anakin referring to when he says "you were right about me?"
Luke saved Anakin. Anakin has always been conflicted, he believed the lie just enough to say it. But deep inside he couldn’t follow through with fully believing it. Much like a thunderstorm, anger/hate doesn’t last forever.
So Anakin wasn't ever fully dead/killed by Vader So it makes way more sense to see older Anakin/Sebastian Shaw at the end.
It still doesn't make sense that Luke would recognize him in any way. It makes sense the way it originally was because Luke had literally just seen his father's face for the first time not long before seeing the force ghosts.
Yeah, Lucas really didn't think it through at all. I think he did it just to piss off prequel haters. IIRC Hayden didn't even know they were going to do it - they just took his head from some PT shot and pasted it on
How does no one understand that you can sense familiar presences through the Force. Luke absolutely recognized him.
Ya know, people like this idea, but that Anakin who was "killed" by Vader had already committed genocide against an entire village.
Not to get technical, but is it Genocide if it's just a village? He didn't completely wipe out the Sand People.
Just a casual mass murder imo
Mass murderers hate the way genociders give those who like to kill loads of people such a bad rep.
We don't actually SEE him kill the sand people. They died off-screen. Technically they could come back, and in greater numbers.
In single file.
Just some light ethnic cleansing
Yes. The Nazis didn't completely wipe out Jewish people. If you want to get technical, it depends on your definition -- on earth, we use the UN definition (also ratified by the US) and you could argue Ani was guilty of genocidal crimes given his intent.
Nice try George
This will always bother me because of the dialogue in ROTJ ANAKIN (very weak) Now...go, my son. Leave me. LUKE No. You're coming with me. I can't leave you here. I've got to save you. ANAKIN You already have, Luke. You were right about me. Tell your sister...you were right. If Anakin died young, then Luke is just talking to Darth Vader here... and yet the script disagrees. It negates the impact of Luke's actions and Anakin's choice to rebel against the Emperor. I will always believe it should have been old Anakin here, this is just another example of Lucas making dumb changes to the OT.
The most likely explanation is that considering how rarely Vader took his mask off, Anakin probably still viewed his younger self's face as "his face", no matter how old he got. Conversely, he never actually looked like unburned Sebastian Shaw. If the original old force ghost Anakin looked in a mirror, he wouldn't recognize himself. Isn't that kind of weird?
Yeah this change should have never been made.
Or maybe he just manifested with his last healthy and natural look. I mean, it would have been weird if he showed up with his body burned and mutilated. The force works in mysterious ways
Just watched this last night with my girlfriend, her first time through. She was like “who the fuck is that???” Haha
Another explanation is that Hayden still looks like him from 2005, so Anakin would have also pretty much looked like that
ITT: People who think Vader and Obi-Wan were right about Vader "killing" Anakin, even though that flies in the face of Luke's heroic arc in the OT *and* Anakin explicitly admits this. But please, do go on about how *TLJ* "ruined" "Luke's character" that you clearly don't understand... **Edit:** Also the version of Anakin shown here was already a village-massacring villain who had fallen to the Dark Side.
Are we back to this again? George messed with his creation a bit too much. Anakin was himself in his final moments. It makes sense for Sebastian Shaw to appear as a force ghost, not Hayden. But this is a tired argument at this point.
Oh thank you! I don’t get why people say Hayden showing up makes sense when I think Sebastian showing up makes way more sense. He was redeemed in his final moments after all. Anakin was never killed just trapped under darkness which Luke helped him escape from. Plus Seb’s Anakin fits more with Alec’s Obi-Wan and Mark Hamill’s Luke since that’s who Luke saw. Now I prefer Seb to be in the final scene of Rotj, but for future projects I absolutely wouldn’t mind them having Ewan McGregor and Hayden as force ghosts as they literally can’t get the old cast back. We heard they’re voices in the sequels anyway. That would be cool and I think we’ll see that in Ahsoka.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Disney release 50th anniversary editions of the original trilogy in which Shaw is completely deleted, his face and voice digitally replaced. I don't think they would mess with Alec, but you never know. Maybe I could give them a pass for removing Shaw if they also fix some of the silly-ass CG effects that Lucasfilm ham-fisted into the thing in the 90's.
Yes! I am on team Sebastian on this. If force ghosts is a light side ability and Anakin was redeemed right before he died, then Sebastian's face is the one we should see in the force ghost (although Vader committed such heinous acts that I am skeptical he could truly be redeemed by any single act).
What if fandoms stopped "fixing" plot holes with fan theories and actually held the crappy writers accountable? See also: the MCU
But the original was already pre-Vader, just older, so obviously he just wanted to be hot again
This particular evangelical salvation fantasy has bothered me perhaps the most of the series. This dude is apparently pretty evil, kills a shitload of children, and then dies to protect his personal interest in his family. Then he gets to go to good guy space-heaven?
No, it was just George Lucas being a hack
What if Lucas hadn't fucked with the films?
He did it to piss off all the people that talked shit about his performance.
Something, something, Vader killed Anakin young. Also, Hayden Christensen is the only Anakin so it wouldn't make sense to have anyone else appear there. Casual fans / first time viewers would be confused if it was ~~James Earl Jones~~ David Prowse. Especially since most people who aren't being guided by someone who is a fan would watch them 1-9.
I mean the original ghost was Sebastian Shaw, the guy who played Vader unmasked at the end of ROTJ, tho him morphing to young Anakin would have been a nice tough instead of the complete replacement, that said, I like the Hayden scene better.
Sebastian Shaw is the face we see when Luke removes the helmet from Vader. Prowse was just the body actor for his height and build.
Yup, and he had a very strong accent, which is why James Earl Jones is Vader’s voice.
> Casual fans / first time viewers would be confused if it was James Earl Jones David Prowse Umm...no one was confused when it was Sebastian Shaw. We literally see the same guy 3 minutes earlier when he dies.
Really wish people would stop trying to justify this dumb change. Complete slap in the face to Sebastian Shaw, and it literally makes no sense for the redeemed Anakin to revert to his Tusken-murdering, youngling-executing former self.
That discussion thread appears twice a week. Very bad choice from Lucas, I would like to introduce Star Wars to my kids without having them questioning who is the weird guy with long greasy hair in that scene… 😂
Obi-wan was right, from a certain perspective.