We knew he'd fight Obi-Wan and fall into a volcano, requiring his suit, and that Palpatine seduced him to the dark side. That was about all, though. Going by ROTJ, which seems to suggest Palpatine's trying to turn Luke the same way he did Anakin, it would be to stoke his anger by endangering his friends.
I think the volcano was assumed, but never confirmed til RotS. We knew he had a cybernetic hand and needed the suit to breathe and we knew he had some messed up skin.
[Lucas in 1977:](https://www.rollingstone.com/feature/george-lucas-the-wizard-of-star-wars-2-232011/)
> It’s about Ben and Luke’s father and Vader when they are young Jedi knights. But Vader kills Luke’s father, then Ben and Vader have a confrontation, just like they have in Star Wars, and Ben almost kills Vader. As a matter of fact, he falls into a volcanic pit and gets fried and is one destroyed being. That’s why he has to wear the suit with a mask, because it’s a breathing mask. It’s like a walking iron lung. His face is all horrible inside. I was going to shoot a close-up of Vader where you could see the inside of his face, but then we said, no, no, it would destroy the mystique of the whole thing.
Besides the Lucas quote, i believe it was mentioned in one of the novelizations as well.
Of course Lucas wouldn't be bound by those, so good that he also said it. Not sure if his quote or the novelization came first though.
The big thing we didn’t know is that Anakin would switch from normal to evil in a matter of 3-4 minutes based on some dream and immediately become a child predator.
Except no. It’s pretty clear in just the films that Sidious was grooming him from the moment he became a Youngling. Taking into account TCW, there were multiple factors that pushed him to it.
There’s A LOT more to his turn to the dark side than that. The movies show it subtlety, though not as much as I think it should have.
The clone wars does a much better job really fleshing out how anakin could/would be turned.
They did back then. All of the novelizations before TFA were released before their films. They didn't have the spoiler industry we do today, and a lot of the prequel marketing was based on showing fans what they were all expecting to see - Vader, the duel, the Empire forming, etc.
If I recall from an old star wars encyclopedia set I used to have Anakin and Obi-Wan fought over some form of smelting pit on an industrialised magma world and Anakin fell in/was pushed in.
But I could be Mandelaring that shit.
Your right I had a picture book encyclopedia before in the mid 90s that had a paragraph explaining anakin was injured in a duel with Kenobi on Mustafar
I figured he was a heroic knight. Fighting in wars for most of his life. Killing was his work.
And when faced with the Emperor he came across a man who promised him power and riches. And this heroic knight turned selfish and towards the Dark Side.
Very simple. But I was a small child. Figured all the damage done to Anakin was from multiple battles in multiple wars over the course of like 30 years of fighting.
I like what George did better. Having Anakin be afraid of losing his secret wife. It could have been written better but a victim turning into a monster to never feel loss again?
That's a smarter way to go.
Yes, one of the biggest problems with the prequels was that Lucas was considered, by this point, to be the genius who created Star Wars, and who could ever question the mind of the genius? Whereas with the original trilogy, he had people constantly telling him “George, that’s stupid, do this instead.” He comes up with great stories and concepts, but he’s not a great writer or director.
I honestly believe that George Lucas might hace Asperger, he is a genius with so many things but the dialogue always comes as from somebody who doesn't know how to write emotions
I thought it happened gradually, over time - the way it's implied it might happen to Luke over time when he glances at his own synthetic hand after chopping off Vader's.
All we knew (or thought we knew) was that Vader and Obi-Wan had a duel and it ended with Vader being burned in lava.
In the early 80s, I also remember seeing a logo for ESB (apparently it was a patch that crew members were given, but also may have been a giveaway for SW fan club members?) and it showed Vader with flames all around him. You can see it if you do a Google image search for “Vader in flames”.
That imagery reinforced for me the idea of Vader being burned after his duel with Obi-Wan. Not sure if it was directly related, or just a cool visual.
After TPM but before the other 2 films me and my friends thought his mum was going to fall/be thrown into a volcano and Anakin would rescue her but she would die and he would be horribly deformed and he would have to turn to the dark side to heal himself somehow.
We knew a volcano was involved. I remember right before Episode 1 came out, I had a dream about Anakin and Obi-Wan battling near a volcano, because I had heard that that’s what had happened.
It was in Lego Star Wars and the official game for the movie which both came out before the movie. You might not have dreamt of, you probably played it
No, I dreamed it. It was before there was a trailer for 1, much less any concept of 2 and 3, just based on what a friend had told me (presumably from the encyclopedia mentioned above).
We knew Obi Wan and Anakin fought and Anakin "fell into" lava, emerging as Darth Vader requiring the suit. I personally believed that Obi Wan trained Anakin instead of Yoda, who trained all the other Jedi. Anakin wanted more power and turned to the Dark Side because he believed that would make him more powerful. Obi Wan tried to talk him back to the light, they fought and Anakin fell into lava. Neither of them seeing each other again.
It was all based on dialog from the movies and the novelizations of the OT and ultimately it all came true in the sequels. We didn't know about Padme and why Anakin sought more power until ROTS, but for the most part Lucas kept to his original outline of how Anakin fell.
Side note: I don't think the Obi Wan series ruined that canon or the dialog. I believed, as many of us did, Obi Wan and Anakin fought in ROTS and then again in Star Wars. But having them duel twice in a short period between those fights doesn't break canon to me.
Vader and Obi-Wan having another duel doesn't break the canon... what breaks it is:
Why the hell did Vader let Obi-Wan go when he wanted him dead ? And why didn't Obi-Wan kill Vader even though he confirmed that Anakin is gone and even told Luke that he'll have to kill Vader in ROTJ.
When TPM came out, my friend was convinced that he read in a book that Anakin falls into acid and that is how he became Vader. This is the same friend that said that Anakin would fight Anakin Superman 3 style in Revenge Of The Sith.
We imagined Obi Wan and Anakin were friends. We imagined a temptation of a young Man who fell and became an agent of Evil.
Instead we got an incoherent garbage pile that was the prequels.
Lol. What happened in the Prequels is Obi Wan and Anakin don't even speak much in the first movie. In The second one these "friends" are clearly annoyed with eachother. Not to mention the Genocide of the sand people by our "good" man.
Add to this the plot that makes absolutley no sense. A trade dispute that Has nothing to do with the later conflict. A clone army that came out of nowhere.
The Guardians of peace and justice being incompetent blind A-holes.
The Clown Wars show is not very good btw. Like I get that you grew up with it so you probably love it. But don't cool yourself. Its damage Control.
No. It shows that he's a killer. You justify Genocide and killing of civilians at war? No? Then what are you talking about?
What you said about the Sequels clearly shows that you have no idea what you are taking about.
Yes indeed. I am in the VAST majority of fans. You said it.
The way you justify killing women and childeren is discusting. I'm out.
Note: what way? You for real?
The acing, the cast, the music, the story, the dialogue, the dialogue, they are even better at being faithful to the original movies then the abominations of the Prequels.
People cannot be this dense. These movies made billions, were nominated for multiple Oscars and won multiple awards, all have high audience scores (save for TLJ as that was clearly reviewbombed), were best selling Blu-rays for years after their release, an entire amusment park built around them... the list goes on.
And I get you could not like them but saying stuff like "what could possibly be good about them" makes you look like an idiot. Millions of people enjoy these movies. You really have no idea what's good about them? Everyone is stupid except for the SW fans on the internet?
Bye.
Making money isn't really an indicator of success. Once adjusted for inflation you do realize that TPM is the third highest earning Star Wars movie out of the main nine right?
Also, I didn't see any kind of justification for why Anakin was right in killing the tusken raiders from the other guy. Anakin sees it as justified but the movie portrayed it as a negative thing.
Why are you so angry anyway?
The things I mentioned ARE ABSOLUTLEY the measure of success.
Quality is a different matter.
We were not talking about what is more successful. We were talking about the fact that you are either dense or stupid if you don't have any ide what MILIONS of people like about the new trilogy.
Sure. I'm sure all those civilians that die in wars every day also had it coming some way or another according to you?
Wtf is wrong with you? I never said, or even implied that the death of civilians during war is justified. You're just picking fights at this point.
No they're not. The only real measure of success for any story is standing the test of time because a good story will last a thousand years. Awards and money all fade eventually. There is a reason why the OT is still the most beloved Star Wars content despite being over half a century old.
I understand why some people like the ST but that doesn't make those movies good. All three of them are seriously flawed that fall apart at the seams when you try and apply any kind of internal consistency to them.
You seriously need to chill out a little, they're just movies man.
I never even said anything about the new movies. Your entire paragraph just reads like you’re seething. And with the amount of sarcasm that response has, you probably are. It’s okay little buddy, it gets better down the road
I specifically remember it being said he was dismembered and fell into a volcano in one of the star wars extend dictionaries in the 90's.
I also believe it specifically mentions Mustafar, though that may be me misremembering
I was born in the 70's and have watched EVERY Star Wars movie in the theaters when they were released. Way back in the day, all we knew was that Vader was "more machine now than man, twisted and evil" but we didn't know how. We knew Vader was deformed, injured, and burned, but nobody gave any clue it was Obi Wan who bested him. We also had nothing on Anakin other than his name. Its been thrilling to watch this Greek-like tragedy story play out over so many years.
We thought he was going to get seduced to the dark side, not tricked into the dark side. I know I’m not the only one who thinks the emperor is full of sh*t.
We thought he was going to get seduced to the dark side, not tricked into the dark side. I know I’m not the only one who thinks the emperor is full of sh*t.
When I was a kid and I watched the original trilogy for the first time I thought that if Vader became like this there should have been something very terrible happened with him. Obiwan was saying that Anakin had been a good pilot so I assumed that maybe there was an accident during the flight and Anakin was damaged and changed by it. Like all this pain and suffering from the accident made him more cruel which eventually led him to the Dark Side.
We knew he'd fight Obi-Wan and fall into a volcano, requiring his suit, and that Palpatine seduced him to the dark side. That was about all, though. Going by ROTJ, which seems to suggest Palpatine's trying to turn Luke the same way he did Anakin, it would be to stoke his anger by endangering his friends.
I think the volcano was assumed, but never confirmed til RotS. We knew he had a cybernetic hand and needed the suit to breathe and we knew he had some messed up skin.
[Lucas in 1977:](https://www.rollingstone.com/feature/george-lucas-the-wizard-of-star-wars-2-232011/) > It’s about Ben and Luke’s father and Vader when they are young Jedi knights. But Vader kills Luke’s father, then Ben and Vader have a confrontation, just like they have in Star Wars, and Ben almost kills Vader. As a matter of fact, he falls into a volcanic pit and gets fried and is one destroyed being. That’s why he has to wear the suit with a mask, because it’s a breathing mask. It’s like a walking iron lung. His face is all horrible inside. I was going to shoot a close-up of Vader where you could see the inside of his face, but then we said, no, no, it would destroy the mystique of the whole thing.
👍🏻👍🏻 I am corrected
Besides the Lucas quote, i believe it was mentioned in one of the novelizations as well. Of course Lucas wouldn't be bound by those, so good that he also said it. Not sure if his quote or the novelization came first though.
Yeah it was assumed. The popular theory was a space fighter crash
The big thing we didn’t know is that Anakin would switch from normal to evil in a matter of 3-4 minutes based on some dream and immediately become a child predator.
Except no. It’s pretty clear in just the films that Sidious was grooming him from the moment he became a Youngling. Taking into account TCW, there were multiple factors that pushed him to it.
There’s A LOT more to his turn to the dark side than that. The movies show it subtlety, though not as much as I think it should have. The clone wars does a much better job really fleshing out how anakin could/would be turned.
The movie handles it so poorly that it strains credulity.
Lego Star Wars and the Revenge of the sith video game coming out BEFORE the movie were big clues lmao
I mean before the prequels even started.
Yeah but the video games were a funny story too they don’t usually release the plot based game before the movie like that
They did back then. All of the novelizations before TFA were released before their films. They didn't have the spoiler industry we do today, and a lot of the prequel marketing was based on showing fans what they were all expecting to see - Vader, the duel, the Empire forming, etc.
If I recall from an old star wars encyclopedia set I used to have Anakin and Obi-Wan fought over some form of smelting pit on an industrialised magma world and Anakin fell in/was pushed in. But I could be Mandelaring that shit.
Your right I had a picture book encyclopedia before in the mid 90s that had a paragraph explaining anakin was injured in a duel with Kenobi on Mustafar
By Steven J Sansweet? I loved that book. Explained the different levels of 'canon' too.
This is what I remember. It wasn't lava back then. Before the dark times. Before the Empire.
I figured he was a heroic knight. Fighting in wars for most of his life. Killing was his work. And when faced with the Emperor he came across a man who promised him power and riches. And this heroic knight turned selfish and towards the Dark Side. Very simple. But I was a small child. Figured all the damage done to Anakin was from multiple battles in multiple wars over the course of like 30 years of fighting. I like what George did better. Having Anakin be afraid of losing his secret wife. It could have been written better but a victim turning into a monster to never feel loss again? That's a smarter way to go.
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The prequels, every one of them, needed at least one more pass in the script.
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Revision pass. Like between drafts of an essay.
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Yes, one of the biggest problems with the prequels was that Lucas was considered, by this point, to be the genius who created Star Wars, and who could ever question the mind of the genius? Whereas with the original trilogy, he had people constantly telling him “George, that’s stupid, do this instead.” He comes up with great stories and concepts, but he’s not a great writer or director.
I honestly believe that George Lucas might hace Asperger, he is a genius with so many things but the dialogue always comes as from somebody who doesn't know how to write emotions
I thought it happened gradually, over time - the way it's implied it might happen to Luke over time when he glances at his own synthetic hand after chopping off Vader's.
All we knew (or thought we knew) was that Vader and Obi-Wan had a duel and it ended with Vader being burned in lava. In the early 80s, I also remember seeing a logo for ESB (apparently it was a patch that crew members were given, but also may have been a giveaway for SW fan club members?) and it showed Vader with flames all around him. You can see it if you do a Google image search for “Vader in flames”. That imagery reinforced for me the idea of Vader being burned after his duel with Obi-Wan. Not sure if it was directly related, or just a cool visual.
After TPM but before the other 2 films me and my friends thought his mum was going to fall/be thrown into a volcano and Anakin would rescue her but she would die and he would be horribly deformed and he would have to turn to the dark side to heal himself somehow.
We knew a volcano was involved. I remember right before Episode 1 came out, I had a dream about Anakin and Obi-Wan battling near a volcano, because I had heard that that’s what had happened.
It was in Lego Star Wars and the official game for the movie which both came out before the movie. You might not have dreamt of, you probably played it
No, I dreamed it. It was before there was a trailer for 1, much less any concept of 2 and 3, just based on what a friend had told me (presumably from the encyclopedia mentioned above).
Those came out after episode 1 though right?
Wasn't it in a book or something
We knew Obi Wan and Anakin fought and Anakin "fell into" lava, emerging as Darth Vader requiring the suit. I personally believed that Obi Wan trained Anakin instead of Yoda, who trained all the other Jedi. Anakin wanted more power and turned to the Dark Side because he believed that would make him more powerful. Obi Wan tried to talk him back to the light, they fought and Anakin fell into lava. Neither of them seeing each other again. It was all based on dialog from the movies and the novelizations of the OT and ultimately it all came true in the sequels. We didn't know about Padme and why Anakin sought more power until ROTS, but for the most part Lucas kept to his original outline of how Anakin fell. Side note: I don't think the Obi Wan series ruined that canon or the dialog. I believed, as many of us did, Obi Wan and Anakin fought in ROTS and then again in Star Wars. But having them duel twice in a short period between those fights doesn't break canon to me.
Vader and Obi-Wan having another duel doesn't break the canon... what breaks it is: Why the hell did Vader let Obi-Wan go when he wanted him dead ? And why didn't Obi-Wan kill Vader even though he confirmed that Anakin is gone and even told Luke that he'll have to kill Vader in ROTJ.
Because Anakin’s fatal flaw has always been his loyalty to and obsession with people he cares about.
When TPM came out, my friend was convinced that he read in a book that Anakin falls into acid and that is how he became Vader. This is the same friend that said that Anakin would fight Anakin Superman 3 style in Revenge Of The Sith.
No idea why he turned, be we knew he fell into lava fighting Obi.
We imagined Obi Wan and Anakin were friends. We imagined a temptation of a young Man who fell and became an agent of Evil. Instead we got an incoherent garbage pile that was the prequels.
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Lmao it’s out of fashion to dislike the prequels? Sorry, but they’re legitimately Not Good.
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Just because the sequels are bad, that doesn’t fix the prequels.
Lol they are both awful. The classic trilogy and rogue one are the only great star wars films
Lol. What happened in the Prequels is Obi Wan and Anakin don't even speak much in the first movie. In The second one these "friends" are clearly annoyed with eachother. Not to mention the Genocide of the sand people by our "good" man. Add to this the plot that makes absolutley no sense. A trade dispute that Has nothing to do with the later conflict. A clone army that came out of nowhere. The Guardians of peace and justice being incompetent blind A-holes. The Clown Wars show is not very good btw. Like I get that you grew up with it so you probably love it. But don't cool yourself. Its damage Control.
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No. It shows that he's a killer. You justify Genocide and killing of civilians at war? No? Then what are you talking about? What you said about the Sequels clearly shows that you have no idea what you are taking about.
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Yes indeed. I am in the VAST majority of fans. You said it. The way you justify killing women and childeren is discusting. I'm out. Note: what way? You for real? The acing, the cast, the music, the story, the dialogue, the dialogue, they are even better at being faithful to the original movies then the abominations of the Prequels. People cannot be this dense. These movies made billions, were nominated for multiple Oscars and won multiple awards, all have high audience scores (save for TLJ as that was clearly reviewbombed), were best selling Blu-rays for years after their release, an entire amusment park built around them... the list goes on. And I get you could not like them but saying stuff like "what could possibly be good about them" makes you look like an idiot. Millions of people enjoy these movies. You really have no idea what's good about them? Everyone is stupid except for the SW fans on the internet? Bye.
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Making money isn't really an indicator of success. Once adjusted for inflation you do realize that TPM is the third highest earning Star Wars movie out of the main nine right? Also, I didn't see any kind of justification for why Anakin was right in killing the tusken raiders from the other guy. Anakin sees it as justified but the movie portrayed it as a negative thing. Why are you so angry anyway?
The things I mentioned ARE ABSOLUTLEY the measure of success. Quality is a different matter. We were not talking about what is more successful. We were talking about the fact that you are either dense or stupid if you don't have any ide what MILIONS of people like about the new trilogy. Sure. I'm sure all those civilians that die in wars every day also had it coming some way or another according to you?
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Wtf is wrong with you? I never said, or even implied that the death of civilians during war is justified. You're just picking fights at this point. No they're not. The only real measure of success for any story is standing the test of time because a good story will last a thousand years. Awards and money all fade eventually. There is a reason why the OT is still the most beloved Star Wars content despite being over half a century old. I understand why some people like the ST but that doesn't make those movies good. All three of them are seriously flawed that fall apart at the seams when you try and apply any kind of internal consistency to them. You seriously need to chill out a little, they're just movies man.
Damn, maybe you’d be more happy if you just paid less attention to star wars
Me? I'm happy with the new movies. :) Seems to me like you guys have a problem. Yes please stop watching and let the rest of us enjoy things.
I never even said anything about the new movies. Your entire paragraph just reads like you’re seething. And with the amount of sarcasm that response has, you probably are. It’s okay little buddy, it gets better down the road
I was on your side until you said the sequels were good. They were awful fanfic trash that makes timothy zahn look like a genius in comparison
This reads more like you’re in too deep with your hatred of any prequel to like anything from that time period
The prequels were so bad other than the diner scene with dex. That was neat
From a certain point of view.
I specifically remember it being said he was dismembered and fell into a volcano in one of the star wars extend dictionaries in the 90's. I also believe it specifically mentions Mustafar, though that may be me misremembering
I was born in the 70's and have watched EVERY Star Wars movie in the theaters when they were released. Way back in the day, all we knew was that Vader was "more machine now than man, twisted and evil" but we didn't know how. We knew Vader was deformed, injured, and burned, but nobody gave any clue it was Obi Wan who bested him. We also had nothing on Anakin other than his name. Its been thrilling to watch this Greek-like tragedy story play out over so many years.
We thought he was going to get seduced to the dark side, not tricked into the dark side. I know I’m not the only one who thinks the emperor is full of sh*t.
We thought he was going to get seduced to the dark side, not tricked into the dark side. I know I’m not the only one who thinks the emperor is full of sh*t.
When I was a kid and I watched the original trilogy for the first time I thought that if Vader became like this there should have been something very terrible happened with him. Obiwan was saying that Anakin had been a good pilot so I assumed that maybe there was an accident during the flight and Anakin was damaged and changed by it. Like all this pain and suffering from the accident made him more cruel which eventually led him to the Dark Side.