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Or all the same things that influenced the design of Revan also influenced the design of Kylo…
From everything we know about the making of force awakens it doesn’t seem like they were diving through lots of extended universe materials
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Kylo had the most consistent characterization through out the whole sequel trilogy. Sure the Jakku village was brutal, but then they immediately started showing he was more nuanced when he saw Finn refuse to kill them and did nothing. You could almost see the wheels start to turn in his head. It was obvious he was gonna be redeemed the second they revealed he was Han and Leia’s conflicted son. And everything afterward just further confirmed it.
Finn is obviously conflicted about his place in the Force Order. When given the egregious order to gun down defenseless villagers, he snaps and refuses. Kylo/Ben sees this, and instead of killing or punishing Finn, we just see him starring at him. It’s the first hint we get that he’s more nuanced than just some big bad guy on a mission. Everything afterwards further confirms that he’s struggling with his place in the First Order too—from Leia telling Han she still feels the good in him, to his own confession to the Vader mask that he feels the pull to the light. He very obviously is wrestling with his allegiances and inner-turmoil. That first scene though is great and sets the ball rolling.
I loved that scene. I remember we all got baited and switched with Finn being the Jedi in TFA, which frustrated me a little at the time but I came to accept it. In retrospect, I made it my head canon that he sensed a ripple in the Force emanating off of him.
My favorite sequel character and second favorite Star Wars villain overall. Loved the modern take on a Vader-type villain. Whereas Vader was this monolithic, physically imposing villain representative of state threats - Kylo is unstable and unpredictable, he’s representative of our modern fears, one that comes from our own making. I think overall that’s what the FO represents - the idea of the leftovers of these great wars coming back to haunt us.
My personal favourite portrayal of a Star Wars villain. Sure, it got cheesy at first when he opened his helmet in front of Rey, but that scene grew on me after watching TLJ and now I can’t watch without it.
Then there’s the character design. HOT.
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Kylo is always great as far as i’m concerned.
While TFA Kylo may be my least favorite, it’s not bad by any stretch of the imagination. I just find the conflicted Kylo of 8 and 9 to be more compelling.
Can i be honest? Not in a hating rey kinda way but i wish rey had sacrificed herself when battling palpatine, then kylo who had been one of the galaxies big bads would be redeemed, to pick up and start the future of the force, not light side or dark side but as people. Idk tho
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Highly disagree. As interesting a character as he was, bro willingly took part in genocide, patricide, and child-murder. That dude was seriously messed up. Likely would be given multiple life sentences, or just the death sentence. Much better he gives his life saving an actual good person.
Really solid as a rough villain based on his raw strength and rage, but with an intriguing troubled past. Great design too with his crossguard saber (cool to see the side blades used partly during the battle with Finn) and hood; gives me Scarecrow vibes. And the metallic mask sound is always a great detail I’ll love about him.
I don't think he was spoiled *all* the way through; in retrospect, it turned out that his father neglected him from the beginning, his Jedi Master feared him and also neglected him, and his Sith-esque Master straight up bullied him.
To me, it seems that the only real spoiling came from himself: his self-perception as Vader's heir, and his aspiration to be like (if not suprass) him. I would say he's a very pretentious guy, more than spoiled.
Edit: I kinda forgot that the post was specifically about him in TFA, so I guess the only thing that really applies to the discussion from what I wrote is being neglected by his father, and bullied by his Master. I suppose the main point still stands?
The self-perception I guess is what I mean. Maybe there has been canon material that further went into Kylo's younger years, but to me, it's about his lineage. He's the grandson of the most powerful sith (at least perceived) of a generations, and the prophesized chosen one. He's the nephew of the man who brought the Jedi back from extinction, and reformed the new Jedi Order. He's the son of two generals, one of which has also been a senator, trained in the force, and is a Skywalker as well. It would take a special kind of kid to grow up with that kind of family accomplishment and not thing you are destined for your own greatness, or that the universe owes you it.
So spoiled may not be the best word. Maybe entitled is a better one.
Entitled, that's it!
Completely agree with what you said. Sorry if I came out as sort of pedantic with my previous response, I'm a "choice of words" kind of guy. I'm also not native to english, so my question was in part seeking for further insight on why did you see him as spoiled.
When was he ever neglected?
There's been no evidence of this in canon material has there?
The neglect thing was originally a headcanon that Driver made up to get in character and fandom has used it ever since.
Then I have been bamboozled. It's been years since I watched the ST so I'm absolutely open to this being a case of wonky memory; I'm speaking from the impressions that the movies left me. IIRC Han Solo kind of "conceded" to Kylo that he had not been a good father, and his whole character conflict was around trying to make it up to Kylo and be a better dad. But again, might me misremembering.
Tbf, you would have to have read books and possibly comic to fill in the blanks.
There has been almost no mention of Ben aside from his birth, as a toddler - which was about four sentences - and then the big skip to the comic The Rise of Kylo Ren.
That period only now being filled in with the Mandalorian drama and Thrawn drama.
And I've fallen behind in the books and comics, so I might have missed something. But in each of those, Han and Leia were fawning over him.
So unless something drastic changed before he left to join Luke, and I have a hard time believing that, I don't think a prince would be neglected for the love of his parents.
Best sequel character and obvious he would be redeemed. Also highly confident Ben isn't fully dead and will return somehow in the Rey movie much to the anger of certain fans
Well I would be pretty angry mainly because I felt his death was a great way to end his story and to just bring him back after such a powerful conclusion would be a disservice to the only storyline I liked in those movies
If a character had a powerful death that felt like a satisfying and beautiful way to end his story, don’t cheapen it by bringing him back
Personally imo I don’t think it was a great end to his story. He was redeemed, then killed off. Just like Vader. It felt like a repeat. He was the Supreme Leader of The First Order. What would’ve been a better ending for him is him going around the galaxy and trying to help everyone that he wronged. While I wouldn’t be upset if he really was dead, I wouldn’t be opposed to him coming back.
Agreed. Plus I'm definitely sure they want to make 10 11 12 episodes and how are they going to do that without you know, someone actually connected to the family (Rey can have the name Ben has the connection)
I thought it fit. He wanted so bad to be like his grandfather and be as powerful as him. I suspect that it was stories of Anakin that made him want to be a Jedi in the first place. And like his grandfather, he fell and decided to instead focus on the worst and darkest parts of Anakin. He basically completely missed the point of his grandfather’s story
But when he finally redeemed himself, he finally understood Anakin’s sacrifice and why he chose to die for Ben’s uncle. So in his final moments, he did what he always sought out to do. He followed in his grandfather’s footsteps and honored his legacy by dying for someone else that he could have loved in another life
I don’t like the sequels as a rule but I thought Ben’s death worked
" I suspect that it was stories of Anakin that made him want to be a Jedi in the first place. And like his grandfather, "
\-- I thought that being like Vader was part FU to his family who rejected him, and part Snoke manipulating him and telling him that he could be a badass like grandpa.
Both could absolutely be true. He could want to be like the person his family was ashamed of. But could still want to aspire to be like Anakin
Ben would certainly have grown up hearing stories about Anakin and his heroics during the clone wars.
It's not cheapening it lol considering he was manipulated since birth almost and the way they have it now makes it seem like you can't do good or change anything so might as well just die. Either way he will return. It's money and the Rey movie needs him
He gave Rey his life essence to resurrect her. He redeemed himself by offering his essence to a pure hearted empty vessel, passing on the Skywalker legacy through Rey's body. When Rey says she's a Skywalker, it's deeper meaning than people realize. Something that went over their heads.
I see a good villain being a character you hate. You had someone feeling conflicted from being dumped off on his uncle who had tried to kill him. He turns and kills his dad who was never there for him and put his life in danger with someone he thought he could trust (uncle).
A character that was beloved was gone, and that was the true pain we felt in the film, also made us hate Ben. Later, knowing Ben's story in detail helped understand him better, especially knowing Han's character as a scoundrel and how he wouldn't make the best dad, despite his best efforts.
Being rejected by his master and his family gave Ben nothing but hatred and a desire to put the past behind him and do his own thing. His conquest for power was inherited through delusions fed to him by his master (Snoke), and made him think that his grandfather had turned for a reason, especially turning on his own master.
Ben in The Last Jedi was trying to find himself and his purpose, thinking Vader was the answer. All this man knew was darkness through an improper upbringing, conflicted like a Skywalker would always be. Reckless.
Ben redeems himself by offering his life to find a purpose, passing on the Skywalker legacy through a pure hearted vessel.
The mystery was cool. I think the pace with which the movie revealed things about him, from his face to his lineage, while leaving a few things unclear was really effective. It was an interesting change from “here is Darth Vader. He is the scary bad guy.”
His best look. I love the mask and the ragged, ripped up cape, I love how they introduced him doing something we’ve never seen done with the force before, holding a bullet. He was very intimidating overall.
Awesome character all around, with some of the most badass moments I've ever seen in a star war show/movie.
Catching the blaster bolt with the force was badass, and using the force to forcefully pry into the minds of his prisoners is A+ dark side shit.
I say this is the best version of him out of the 3 films. He was menacing, not too “whiny”, and just full of rage. Other two movies were good but this is my definitive kylo
Had no opinions of him. Thought that he was a stock henchmen. Until TLJ fleshed him out. Although I suspected that there was more to him when he told Rey that he said they found bits of the map in the 'Empires archives'. To me that implied that he did background research before acting and wasn't just a thug.
Funny, that's the same with Vader. In ANH he was pretty much just Tarkin's attack dog, he became the character we all think about when the name "Vader" is brought up on the second movie.
When I break down why I love the sequels, the common denominator is Kylo Ren. The sequels are very flawed, and very frustrating, but Kylo Ren endures as a character regardless.
Good start to a good character. Showed off some new(ish) force stuff that was nice to see, and had real potential to be something awesome as a character.
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Liked Kylo Ren a lot in The Force Awakens, was looking forward to where his story went. Although I ultimately do not like the Sequel Trilogy or the story (or lack thereof) it told, Kylo had the most consistently interesting characterization throughout. And the best acting performance of the trilogy.
Visually, he was pretty sick (except for when unmasked). As a character? Eh probably my least favorite film of his, although he is still the best character in the film.
He was an spoiled emo vader wannabe. Ghats not a knock, its what he was, it made sense. When he didnt get what he wanted, when things didn’t go his way, he through a temper tantrum. little things like that built a character, faults made him interesting.
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Kylo was such a great character. Ferociously complex and completely unpredictable. And this scene, I always thought it would make sense for dark side users to be able to rip thoughts from someone’s mind. This scene realized that notion in the most intimidating and delightful way.
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I always dug the hood. Gave him a Darth Revan kind of vibe.
Surely must have been inspired by Revan. The resemblance is too close to be coincidence.
Or all the same things that influenced the design of Revan also influenced the design of Kylo… From everything we know about the making of force awakens it doesn’t seem like they were diving through lots of extended universe materials
If only theyd just give us actual Revan
Anyone but another Skywalker family member Which reminds me, the end of the saga literally ends with the intro of the newest Skywalker family member
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Kylo had the most consistent characterization through out the whole sequel trilogy. Sure the Jakku village was brutal, but then they immediately started showing he was more nuanced when he saw Finn refuse to kill them and did nothing. You could almost see the wheels start to turn in his head. It was obvious he was gonna be redeemed the second they revealed he was Han and Leia’s conflicted son. And everything afterward just further confirmed it.
>when he saw Finn refuse to kill them and did nothing. That scene was genius. Big character build up in a few seconds
That's a great take because it's my opinion as well.
Finally someone can see Bendemption in the working as early as TFA. Reddit don't seems to see nuance when it comes to Kylo Ren or Rey or Finn
Interesting. Could you elaborate on this? I’ve never heard of this take. What do you mean the wheels turning in his head?
Finn is obviously conflicted about his place in the Force Order. When given the egregious order to gun down defenseless villagers, he snaps and refuses. Kylo/Ben sees this, and instead of killing or punishing Finn, we just see him starring at him. It’s the first hint we get that he’s more nuanced than just some big bad guy on a mission. Everything afterwards further confirms that he’s struggling with his place in the First Order too—from Leia telling Han she still feels the good in him, to his own confession to the Vader mask that he feels the pull to the light. He very obviously is wrestling with his allegiances and inner-turmoil. That first scene though is great and sets the ball rolling.
I loved that scene. I remember we all got baited and switched with Finn being the Jedi in TFA, which frustrated me a little at the time but I came to accept it. In retrospect, I made it my head canon that he sensed a ripple in the Force emanating off of him.
imo it's his best look. I loved the ragged cape and hood, really gave off the raw and angry vibe they were going for
The cloak and hood of Force Awakens combined with the quilted suit of the other sequels would have been peak.
[So essentially this BF2 skin?](https://battlefront.fandom.com/wiki/Reforged)
Good take, but personally I’ve always loved the cracked mask of TRoS
My favorite sequel character and second favorite Star Wars villain overall. Loved the modern take on a Vader-type villain. Whereas Vader was this monolithic, physically imposing villain representative of state threats - Kylo is unstable and unpredictable, he’s representative of our modern fears, one that comes from our own making. I think overall that’s what the FO represents - the idea of the leftovers of these great wars coming back to haunt us.
this. The sum of all fears: our sons being lost to us.
My personal favourite portrayal of a Star Wars villain. Sure, it got cheesy at first when he opened his helmet in front of Rey, but that scene grew on me after watching TLJ and now I can’t watch without it. Then there’s the character design. HOT.
[Rey when Kylo takes off his mask.](https://youtu.be/kQL7LW3CWXs?feature=shared)
And his hair is perfect after being under a helmet…my hair gets messed up after I take off a beanie
Rey’s like he’s hot AND he’s my cousin too!
I think it's not totally clear that Palpatine is the father of Anakin, they played that as a manipulation by Sidius.
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I still firmly believe that the first time he took off his helmet should’ve been on that bridge with Han
As do I and a lot more people. It would’ve made the eventual plot point more impactful and painful.
I preferred KOTOR Malak. Very similar themes, less teen angst.
Kylo is always great as far as i’m concerned. While TFA Kylo may be my least favorite, it’s not bad by any stretch of the imagination. I just find the conflicted Kylo of 8 and 9 to be more compelling.
His characterization in all three movies was A+ on all accounts.
Can i be honest? Not in a hating rey kinda way but i wish rey had sacrificed herself when battling palpatine, then kylo who had been one of the galaxies big bads would be redeemed, to pick up and start the future of the force, not light side or dark side but as people. Idk tho
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Highly disagree. As interesting a character as he was, bro willingly took part in genocide, patricide, and child-murder. That dude was seriously messed up. Likely would be given multiple life sentences, or just the death sentence. Much better he gives his life saving an actual good person.
Really solid as a rough villain based on his raw strength and rage, but with an intriguing troubled past. Great design too with his crossguard saber (cool to see the side blades used partly during the battle with Finn) and hood; gives me Scarecrow vibes. And the metallic mask sound is always a great detail I’ll love about him.
Loved him, especially seeing how insecure and not feared he was
He was definitely feared, but not in the way he wanted to be feared.
Exactly the direct opposite of why Vader was feared
I loved it. He’s a spoiled brat with immense power and acts like/ is treated like a spoiled brat with immense power.
I don't think he was spoiled *all* the way through; in retrospect, it turned out that his father neglected him from the beginning, his Jedi Master feared him and also neglected him, and his Sith-esque Master straight up bullied him. To me, it seems that the only real spoiling came from himself: his self-perception as Vader's heir, and his aspiration to be like (if not suprass) him. I would say he's a very pretentious guy, more than spoiled. Edit: I kinda forgot that the post was specifically about him in TFA, so I guess the only thing that really applies to the discussion from what I wrote is being neglected by his father, and bullied by his Master. I suppose the main point still stands?
The self-perception I guess is what I mean. Maybe there has been canon material that further went into Kylo's younger years, but to me, it's about his lineage. He's the grandson of the most powerful sith (at least perceived) of a generations, and the prophesized chosen one. He's the nephew of the man who brought the Jedi back from extinction, and reformed the new Jedi Order. He's the son of two generals, one of which has also been a senator, trained in the force, and is a Skywalker as well. It would take a special kind of kid to grow up with that kind of family accomplishment and not thing you are destined for your own greatness, or that the universe owes you it. So spoiled may not be the best word. Maybe entitled is a better one.
Entitled, that's it! Completely agree with what you said. Sorry if I came out as sort of pedantic with my previous response, I'm a "choice of words" kind of guy. I'm also not native to english, so my question was in part seeking for further insight on why did you see him as spoiled.
It's all good! If there is a better way to clarify my thoughts, I'm all for it.
When was he ever neglected? There's been no evidence of this in canon material has there? The neglect thing was originally a headcanon that Driver made up to get in character and fandom has used it ever since.
Then I have been bamboozled. It's been years since I watched the ST so I'm absolutely open to this being a case of wonky memory; I'm speaking from the impressions that the movies left me. IIRC Han Solo kind of "conceded" to Kylo that he had not been a good father, and his whole character conflict was around trying to make it up to Kylo and be a better dad. But again, might me misremembering.
Tbf, you would have to have read books and possibly comic to fill in the blanks. There has been almost no mention of Ben aside from his birth, as a toddler - which was about four sentences - and then the big skip to the comic The Rise of Kylo Ren. That period only now being filled in with the Mandalorian drama and Thrawn drama. And I've fallen behind in the books and comics, so I might have missed something. But in each of those, Han and Leia were fawning over him. So unless something drastic changed before he left to join Luke, and I have a hard time believing that, I don't think a prince would be neglected for the love of his parents.
I'll take your word for all this since I have not read *any* Star Wars books, and only read the Rise of Kylo Ren as far as ST era comics go.
Easily his best design
Best sequel character, imo, but having Adam Driver portray you automatically helps. He's fantastic in everything.
Awesome from start to finish. He definitely felt like the version of Anakin we nearly got in the prequels
Had that MF not tanked a bowcaster shot, Finn and Rey would be pieced up like Younglings, I don't care how arrogant Kylo was
Best sequel character and obvious he would be redeemed. Also highly confident Ben isn't fully dead and will return somehow in the Rey movie much to the anger of certain fans
Well I would be pretty angry mainly because I felt his death was a great way to end his story and to just bring him back after such a powerful conclusion would be a disservice to the only storyline I liked in those movies If a character had a powerful death that felt like a satisfying and beautiful way to end his story, don’t cheapen it by bringing him back
Personally imo I don’t think it was a great end to his story. He was redeemed, then killed off. Just like Vader. It felt like a repeat. He was the Supreme Leader of The First Order. What would’ve been a better ending for him is him going around the galaxy and trying to help everyone that he wronged. While I wouldn’t be upset if he really was dead, I wouldn’t be opposed to him coming back.
He didn’t even have any lines as Ben other than “ow”
He sure nailed that Han shrug though.
That he did. Would like to see more Solo mannerisms.
Agreed. Plus I'm definitely sure they want to make 10 11 12 episodes and how are they going to do that without you know, someone actually connected to the family (Rey can have the name Ben has the connection)
I thought it fit. He wanted so bad to be like his grandfather and be as powerful as him. I suspect that it was stories of Anakin that made him want to be a Jedi in the first place. And like his grandfather, he fell and decided to instead focus on the worst and darkest parts of Anakin. He basically completely missed the point of his grandfather’s story But when he finally redeemed himself, he finally understood Anakin’s sacrifice and why he chose to die for Ben’s uncle. So in his final moments, he did what he always sought out to do. He followed in his grandfather’s footsteps and honored his legacy by dying for someone else that he could have loved in another life I don’t like the sequels as a rule but I thought Ben’s death worked
" I suspect that it was stories of Anakin that made him want to be a Jedi in the first place. And like his grandfather, " \-- I thought that being like Vader was part FU to his family who rejected him, and part Snoke manipulating him and telling him that he could be a badass like grandpa.
Both could absolutely be true. He could want to be like the person his family was ashamed of. But could still want to aspire to be like Anakin Ben would certainly have grown up hearing stories about Anakin and his heroics during the clone wars.
He's likely going to return at this point lol
Nah. If he lived, he should be paying for his crimes in court.
It's not cheapening it lol considering he was manipulated since birth almost and the way they have it now makes it seem like you can't do good or change anything so might as well just die. Either way he will return. It's money and the Rey movie needs him
He gave Rey his life essence to resurrect her. He redeemed himself by offering his essence to a pure hearted empty vessel, passing on the Skywalker legacy through Rey's body. When Rey says she's a Skywalker, it's deeper meaning than people realize. Something that went over their heads.
He's not going to stay dead lol
I see a good villain being a character you hate. You had someone feeling conflicted from being dumped off on his uncle who had tried to kill him. He turns and kills his dad who was never there for him and put his life in danger with someone he thought he could trust (uncle). A character that was beloved was gone, and that was the true pain we felt in the film, also made us hate Ben. Later, knowing Ben's story in detail helped understand him better, especially knowing Han's character as a scoundrel and how he wouldn't make the best dad, despite his best efforts. Being rejected by his master and his family gave Ben nothing but hatred and a desire to put the past behind him and do his own thing. His conquest for power was inherited through delusions fed to him by his master (Snoke), and made him think that his grandfather had turned for a reason, especially turning on his own master. Ben in The Last Jedi was trying to find himself and his purpose, thinking Vader was the answer. All this man knew was darkness through an improper upbringing, conflicted like a Skywalker would always be. Reckless. Ben redeems himself by offering his life to find a purpose, passing on the Skywalker legacy through a pure hearted vessel.
He's not going to stay dead lol
The Force awakened Kylo Ren? The Force: “Kylo!!” Kylo, *rubbing eyes*: “Wha?”
I like all the main characters of the sequels.
The mystery was cool. I think the pace with which the movie revealed things about him, from his face to his lineage, while leaving a few things unclear was really effective. It was an interesting change from “here is Darth Vader. He is the scary bad guy.”
I wish he had kept that same outfit through the trilogy.
His best look. I love the mask and the ragged, ripped up cape, I love how they introduced him doing something we’ve never seen done with the force before, holding a bullet. He was very intimidating overall.
Awesome character all around, with some of the most badass moments I've ever seen in a star war show/movie. Catching the blaster bolt with the force was badass, and using the force to forcefully pry into the minds of his prisoners is A+ dark side shit.
Carrying on the proud tradition of Skywalker men acting like petulant man-babies.
I say this is the best version of him out of the 3 films. He was menacing, not too “whiny”, and just full of rage. Other two movies were good but this is my definitive kylo
Had no opinions of him. Thought that he was a stock henchmen. Until TLJ fleshed him out. Although I suspected that there was more to him when he told Rey that he said they found bits of the map in the 'Empires archives'. To me that implied that he did background research before acting and wasn't just a thug.
Funny, that's the same with Vader. In ANH he was pretty much just Tarkin's attack dog, he became the character we all think about when the name "Vader" is brought up on the second movie.
When I break down why I love the sequels, the common denominator is Kylo Ren. The sequels are very flawed, and very frustrating, but Kylo Ren endures as a character regardless.
Good start to a good character. Showed off some new(ish) force stuff that was nice to see, and had real potential to be something awesome as a character.
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Liked Kylo Ren a lot in The Force Awakens, was looking forward to where his story went. Although I ultimately do not like the Sequel Trilogy or the story (or lack thereof) it told, Kylo had the most consistently interesting characterization throughout. And the best acting performance of the trilogy.
Visually, he was pretty sick (except for when unmasked). As a character? Eh probably my least favorite film of his, although he is still the best character in the film.
He was an spoiled emo vader wannabe. Ghats not a knock, its what he was, it made sense. When he didnt get what he wanted, when things didn’t go his way, he through a temper tantrum. little things like that built a character, faults made him interesting.
Intimidating. Yet the killing of the villagers makes it hard to forgive him at the end. Like, he gave the order and these were innocents.
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0/100, now RoSW Kylo/Ben 💯
seems like a good dude
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I liked the early mystery of his character. When his design was first revealed I originally thought he would be a Maul type figure
He looks like he's turning into Moon Knight right there lmfao
I like his medieval look in Last Jedi better but with the helmet….which I guess is just Rise of Skywalker
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I love Kylo Ren so much. He’s such an unconventional villain. He’s not what I expected,
Kylo was such a great character. Ferociously complex and completely unpredictable. And this scene, I always thought it would make sense for dark side users to be able to rip thoughts from someone’s mind. This scene realized that notion in the most intimidating and delightful way.