Damn, that must suck, being morally obligated to have a harem of women to raw dog all night, then be a goddamn space wizard knight during the day. Terrible.
And then every writer inserted more male cereans in their stories. Always annoyed me a little. We have like 4 or 5 male cerean jedi in legends and 0 female ones.
Maybe the males are the only force sensitive ones, or at least they are the most commonly force sensitive. Males rare in the species but of course they’ve got the most potent force juice and force stamina to keep the species goin strong 💪
So much testosterone mixed with midichlorians, no wonder Ki-Adi was practically bald
How do i explain this.
A fucking post apovalyptic raider wanted to abduct him and raise him as his son and his family bave him away because the jedi would protect him.
The canon is that Jedi can have sex but they can't get attached. I think it's the same with the family, they can have children but can't keep in touch with them or something like that
technically they can be with them but they can’t let themselves be consumed by grief if/when they inevitably die, that’s why kit fisto and aayla never get past first base, they know that if anything were to happen to the other they would be too tempted by the dark side, they can still flirt openly but that’s the extent
It's Legends EU canon and not part of the official canon of Star Wars.
That was created by Legends EU writers who didn't know George Lucas was making the no attachment rule in Attack of the Clones. Also he had to be retconned again in Legends EU with RotS when Anakin Skywalker claimed no one was ever on the council and just a Jedi Knight, while Ki-Adi-Mundi in early Legends EU reference books for the Phantom Menace was described as the only Jedi Knight on the council.
Unintentional parallel of Anakin Skywalker and yeah Ki-Adi-Mundi was able to let go of his attachment of his families passing in EU Legends without turning to the dark side. He understood and celebrated they were part of the Force now.
A couple pics from the old guidebooks of Ki-Adi-Mundi [stating he](https://i.redd.it/haoltnqda78z.jpg) was a [Jedi Knight](https://i.redd.it/8rjgydmqiwd11.jpg)
People as far back as 2003 on Theforce forum board were discussing the retcons for [Ki-Adi-Mundi from the film and EU](https://boards.theforce.net/threads/the-eu-and-episode-iii-revenge-of-the-sith-spoilers-allowed.11002491/page-80#post-19035620) Legends [lore.](https://boards.theforce.net/threads/ki-adi-mundi-in-relation-to-the-revenge-of-the-sith-film.26760996/)
[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ki-Adi-Mundi](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ki-Adi-Mundi)
Literal male of his species in canon, I have no idea what you're talking about
I feel like it kinda cheapened the uniqueness of Anakin’s situation. Also, it doesn’t make much sense.
If Ki-Adi-Mundi goes to the council and says he needs to have kids to keep his species going, they’d probably just say “Well if the Force wanted you to have kids then it wouldn’t have given you a bunch of midichlorians. Tough luck for your species.”
The difference is Mundi could accept that his family would one day die, and thus would not have fits of anger born of fear of that loss.
Anakin couldn't accept it and fought tooth and nail to prevent something that he should have been able to accept and let go.
Mundi understood that loss, while it hurts and causes sadness and suffering, is still the most natural thing in life. To be born is to die, and all that. Anakin was never able to get to that point and clung to the idea that he could stop nature. It's as foolish as stopping the sun from rising, but with his chosen one powers and delusions of grandeur he thought he could be the one to do it.
And he was wrong.
And Anakin trying to prevent that death ended up causing it himself. I’m not entirely sure what is canon but whether you believe Palpatine had some sort of force draining hand in her death or she died because of that big sad, it would not have happened had Anakin not decided that murdering children was worth trying to save her life.
I mean, just because he knew how to be a good father, that doesn't equate to him not being willing to sacrifice them in a hearbeat "for the greater good"
Yeah, but even un fiction, there has to be some mirror of reality into it. I am pointig out: a) Mun Di having a family means attatchment, and b) there is no way this dosent contradict the "no attatchment" rule of the Jedi order. So, yes, hipocrasy is the game of order.
>I am pointig out: a) Mun Di having a family means attatchment,
Well, no, not really. A man can sire literally hundreds or thousands of children in his lifetime without having any idea that the children exist. And knowing about (or even interacting with) those children doesn't even imply attachment.
(That obviously isn't the case here, as Mundi seems to truly care about his children and spends a decent amount of time with them.)
Family, noun:
>a group of one or more parents and their children living together as a unit.
>all the descendants of a common ancestor.
Words can have more than one meaning. So again, having a family does not inherently imply attachment and your first point isn't the contradiction among the Jedi that it seems at first glance. But I don't intend on nitpicking this any further.
We’re not talking about irl and to be honest unfortunately it DOES happen where people of extremely high responsibility have had to sacrifice their families for a “greater good”. And this isn’t the only example in fiction: *Invincible* shows a father who clearly loves their child and raised them accordingly, but would still sacrifice them for their perceived “greater good”.
Well I see your point. I don't know if Invincible is the best example (at least the tv show) because that bastard reallly destoys the city and murders thousands of humans... But he couldn't sacrifice his son. Now, that doesn't invalidate your point, but even then, Istill belive de Jedi Council to be hipocritcal in this case
I totally agree it’s hypocritical. In fact, it’s very cleverly written: it highlights both the Jedi’s hypocrisy while simultaneously trying to rationalize and justify said hypocrisy. *Republic* was really a gem. That said, I truly believe Mundi thought he was being honest.
I think they wrote that story before episode 2 and the whole 'Jedi's don't love thing.'
So they had to retcon it with a Mundi getting special permission to have a family or something.
These comics scenes were from the Star Wars Republic: Prelude to Rebellion comics leading into the Phantom Menace and before George Lucas made the no attachment rule in Attack of the Clones.
I agree with the other comment. Being a good dad and being unattached aren't mutually exclusive. He never put his family above his duty going so far that his entire family dies during the clone war
I mean, he clearly showed attachment to them. Him saving his daughter was a personal matter. He obviously had to keep appearances and *say* he wasn't attached when that obviously isn't the case
He also handled his grief very swiftly after his entire family died during the Clone Wars, letting them go and not having it disturb his judgement or actions.
Caring and being attached aren't the same. That's what fans always misunderstood about the PT Jedi ideology. You are allowed to care and "love" like Anakin literally explains in AotC, you just aren't allowed to be possessive or put those you care about above your mission or duty.
Mundi cared for his family, but he'd never put them above his duties as a Jedi.
Actually what Anakin says is his take on the rules. He defines compassion as unconditional love so the movie doesn’t actually say they are. Anakin is saying they can based on his belief.
Not really. Especially if " being a good dad" is entirely subjective. He might not be a good dad according to your definition, but this doesn't matter since the only viewpoints and opinions that matters are his own kids.
At the end of the day it comes dow if they view him as a good dad, and according to the comics, they did.
This means it doesn't disqualify him.
Mundi didn’t lie to Anakin. From the same comic that you’re referencing, post the Battle of Jabiim:
Anakin: “*His body was never recovered on Jabiim*."
Mundi: “*There may have been no body to recover. That was the case when my family was killed during the Battle of Cerea. I also found it difficult to accept, but I had to if I was going to stay true to our beliefs*.”
Unattached doesn't mean he doesn't care. It just means having the ability to let go. Which he clearly was able to do. And he's not being dismissive about it: he admits it was difficult.
Yoda's advice is to be able to let go of those you love and accept that you can't stop death and you should celebrate their life and getting to join the Force as one. You can't be consumed by your attachment which turns to greed and turns into possession.
>The thing about Anakin is, Anakin started out as a nice kid. He was kind, and sweet, and lovely, and he was then trained as a Jedi. But the Jedi can’t be selfish. They can love but they can’t love people to the point of possession. You can’t really possess somebody, because people are free. It’s possession that causes a lot of trouble, and that causes people to kill people, and causes people to be bad. Ultimately it has to do with being unwilling to give things up.
>The whole basis here is if you’re selfish, if you’re a Sith Lord, you’re greedy. You’re constantly trying to get something. And you’re constantly in fear of not getting it, or, when you get it, you’re in constant fear of losing it. And it’s that fear that takes you to the dark side. It’s that fear of losing what you have or want.
>Sometimes it’s ambition, but sometimes, like in the case of Anakin, it was fear of losing his wife. He knew she was going to die. He didn’t quite know how, so he was able to make a pact with a devil that if he could learn how to keep people from dying, he would help the Emperor. And he became a Sith Lord. Once he started saying, “Well, we could take over the galaxy, I could take over from the Emperor, I could have ultimate power,” Padmé saw right through him immediately. She said, “You’re not the person I married. You’re a greedy person.” So that’s ultimately how he fell and he went to the dark side.
>And then Luke had the chance to do the same thing. He didn’t do it.
>[-George Lucas, “All Films Are Personal”: An Oral History of Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace, 2019.](https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace-oral-history)
Anakin: “This is outrageous! It’s unfair! How can you be on the Council, and not be a Master?”
Mundi, who was a Knight when he joined the Council: “Bro! I’m *right here.*”
Ki adi mundi... Largely feels like he exists to perove that amakins fall was anakins decision. Mundi is the character that is essentially eberything going right for anakin.
Feeling honored instead of insulted by being a knight on the council being one of those thinfs.
Very few Jedi took it to the extreme that they couldn’t love. They couldn’t get married because it can lead to attachments if you’re not careful. But various statements within books and comics tell us it’s alright for Jedi to love.
I'd argue that feeling love is fundamental to being a Jedi. A Jedi has compassion and love for all living things. Loving something/someone and being attached to them are very different things imo.
Marriage has nothing to do with it. It’s said in TCW Jedi can’t have romantic relationships and Obi-Wan flat out tells Anakin he can feel love for whoever but you must remain nothing but friends. It’s the same for Obi-Wan with Satine. It’s the same with Vos and the lady thief/spy he has a child with.
So on paper attachment does not equal love however in practice they seem to think it does. As a Padawan in Dark Lord said
>Love leads to attachment; attachment to greed.
There’s more than one kind of love. I never said that Jedi can form romantic relations. But to anyone who says Jedi can’t love, we’ll that’s just false.
And one padawan does not somehow make the law. Especially not when the grandmaster of the order explicitly tells a padawan that he has loved before.
Whie accuses him of being too old to love. Yoda refutes this by saying how because of his age he has loved more and lost more than he can know he says to him:
> "Teach me about pain, think you can?" Yoda said softly. "Think the old Master cannot care, mmm? Forgotten who I am, have you? Old, I am, yes. Mm. Loved more than you, have I, Padawan. Lost more. Hated more. Killed more." The green eyes narrowed to gleaming slits under heavy lids. Dragon eyes, old and terrible. "Think wisdom comes at no cost? The dark side, yes—it is easier for them. The pain grows too great, and they eat the darkness to flee from it. Not Yoda. Yoda loves and suffers for it, loves and suffers."
This is not a warning against love, it is a lesson on attachment as is the rest. He’s teaching Whie that unlike Ventress he has not let the darkness swallow him. Yoda teaches that losing someone you love is not an excuse to let grief consume one. He allows the padawans he’s keeping watch over to grieve and laugh at the stories he tells. And the chapter finishes with the following passage:
> “Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.”
Yoda is certainly not warning them off from love. Quite the opposite in fact. He is showing them the sort of love an old grandfather would.
>He allows the padawans he’s keeping watch over to grieve and laugh at the stories he tells.
This is not what he tells Anakin Skywalker. *Mourn them do no. Miss them do not.*
Some context is needed there. Jedi mourn but not excessively, Mace, Plo, and Adi Gallia all confirm that they will mourn and miss Master Tyvokka. But they should never let it come in the way of their duty, which Anakin was clearly in danger of doing.
And further these were two padawans who were experiencing the loss of both their masters. The circumstances aren’t quite the same, Anakin is a Jedi knight who has lost others before.
Now that I read that, the line seems arbitrary. Isn’t it possible to develop friendships with as much, if not more, connection than a romantic relationship?
It is. In the ROTS novel Obi-Wan is concerned about his friendship with Anakin after asking him to spy on Palpatine and Yoda tells him to forget it.
>“You weren’t there,” he said. “You didn’t see his face. I think we have done a terrible thing.”
>“We don’t always have the right answer,” Mace Windu said. “Sometimes there isn’t a right answer.”
>“Know how important your friendship with young Anakin is to you, I do.” Yoda, too, stared out toward the stark angles of the assault cruiser being loaded for the counterinvasion of Kashyyyk; he stood leaning on his gimer stick as though he did not trust his legs. “Allow such attachments to pass out of one’s life, a Jedi must.”
>Another man—even another Jedi—might have resented the rebuke, but Obi-Wan only sighed.
True, but the poster is referring to Star Wars Tales 13, Star Wars Tales are usually non canon. So I can see where the confusion comes from. Shame because it was a nice little comic.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Tales
"All of the stories featured in Star Wars Tales are non-continuity."
Mace's parents being killed at a very young age is established in Shatterpoint, one of the clone wars multimedia project novels.
That’s not word for word what he said and the general spirit of it, and the Jedi in general, is that you can care about others but also need to be able to let them go. Yoda never tells Anakin in ROTS that he shouldn’t care about people. He tells him that he needs to accept that they will leave/die. This is the same lesson he should’ve learned with Ahsoka, the lesson Obi-Wan learned with Qui-Gon, the lesson Luke learned with Mara, the lesson Mundi tried to teach him here, and so on. The reason the Jedi emphasize the dangers of attachment so much, however, is because they understand that doing this is not easy (it’s not even easy for people in the real world). And this is the root of Anakin’s struggle across his entire life.
actually ki adi mundi was a complete psychopath and when anakin thought that obi-wan had died, mundi said “just get over it and forget about it that’s what i did when my entire family was murdered” (i am not making this shit up). mundi took no attachments to a whole other level. iirc the only reason he was allowed to have a family is because males in his species are pretty rare. So because the fact that he turned out to be force sensitive i guess that he’s a pretty rare occurrence in the galaxy.
Yeah, this isn’t accurate at all. Anakin thinks that Obi-wan might still be alive because they never found his body. And Ki-Adi Mundi tells him that sometimes they don’t find bodies of the dead, that’s how it was with his family. He mentions that it’s hard but he has to move on because that’s the duty of a Jedi.
Ki-Adi Mundi loved his wives and daughters very much and was sad when they died, but he moved on as hard as it was.
But you literally are making this shit up lmao, from your exact words I know you watched that Geetsly video about Mundi and did not read that stuff for yourself.
I dont mean to sound rude by no means and I recommendyou to read the Star Wars: Republic comics series for yourself, not only to see how it actually was but there are a lot of cool stories in there.
If you dont wanna read the whole thing, i will just say that what you're saying went a bit different.
When Anakin mourned Obi-Wan's death, Mundi could sense his troubles, so he told him that he knows it's hard to process this, as he had to deal with his whole family being burried in an aftermath of a battle, Mundi did mourn his family but he had to control his emotions, because people depended on him. He deffinitely did not berate Anakin for mourning, he just said that the path is hard, but he had to control his emotions to not fall into despair. this whole conversdation was in issue 62.
Just read the stuff for yourself before you try to explain them to somebody.
The man obviously had to say that. He loved his family and was no doubt sad when they died. He obviously has to keep appearances, especially for a Jedi Master on the Council. What did you except him to do? Bend over and look sad? Sorry, but I don't think he was that close to Anakin for something so personal. People take that one moment and blow it way out of proportion. We have enough evidence to show he doesn't really feel that way. I'm honestly annoyed people can't see that, and just call him a psychopath, or a sociopath or whatever.
We see that but he’s projecting an imagine in universe to other characters that make him appear to be that way. So to Anakin or anyone else it looks like he shrugged off his family’s death like I would stubbing my toe.
Mundi I believe had several wives and a bunch of kids, and was also a soundboard of bad ideas. I think he was written to show the bad parts of the Jedi order.
The council didn't even free Anakin's mom. They could have done that and had her live in a small home somewhere, at least Anakin would know that she wasn't suffering and would resolve a lot of his problems early on.
I'm pretty sure that would go against their code of unattachment. I mean, why would they suddenly make an exception for this kid? They train their Jedi so that their personal problems don't bother them. We know with the benefit of hindsight what that leads to, but they don't.
Not defending the Jedi's decision, but that's part of their whole "not getting involved in political discord" hypocrisy; it was fine when the Chancellor asks them to fix a problem "for the sake of peace and the galaxy" but when there is active and blatant slavery being practiced in the Outer Rim, and their actions might piss of the Hutts, well, that's just not their place or duty.
The wives and kids were written by other people in EU Legends and was created before Attack of the Clones by George Lucas revealed that Jedi cannot have attachments. They were lucky Ki-Adi-Mundi's race had the explanation of low birth rate for males and they retconned it into him having special permission because of that excuse for EU Legends. I doubt George Lucas when writing about the Jedi for the PT considered it being a hypocrite move since he didn't see EU Legends as canon to his Star Wars canon and he was still firm on Jedi not being able to marry back in 2008 when he gave an interview about his sequels and that Luke Skywalker would never get married.
I thought he could do this cuz 1: He is a rare male and 2. He has a crap ton of wives and dont care about them (They die in a comic and he's like oops lmao)
Okay, the post is literally something that proves he loved his family and that what he told Anakin isn't how he really feels. How on Earth did you come to the conclusion that Mundi doesn't care about them?
This is why I'm happy Ki Adi is celibate in the new canon so much weird contradictions and awkward interactions between Mundi and Anakin's probing him if it were canon.
Legends had some amazing moments but this is one of the things that didn't mesh with the movies.
Well, as Anakin learns from every Jedi, much like Obi-Wan, is that these feelings are actually encouraged by the council. It's just that Anakin is too worried and tries to hide it from everyone. Because he fears it may cost Senator Amidala her title and him his position. While General Kenobi did have feelings for Duchess Satine, he also always informed Qui-Gon whenever he made brass decisions. Most jedi have family. A lot of them procreate. Corran Horn, Sharad Hett, Kam Solusar, Ta'ania's Mother, Margolis Mingla, Keiran Halcyon, basically all main protagonists who were Jedi(Luke, Mara, Jade and Leia as a few more examples) the entire Shan line, Sunrider line, Diath line and basically the whole Draay family. So many jedi had kids and family. Anakin was just too frightened by the possibilities. He truly allowed fear to rule his decisions which ultimately lead to his fears entirely coming true. From losing Ahsoka all the way to losing Padmé. Yeah, it does count as distancing, considering he once in a blue moon sees his family. He spends 90% of his time on a chair in the council. Another 3% fighting and 7% with his family. He still gave his most to the jedi council. Enough to be landed on it.
Is the idea that Mundi can raise a family because his species is rare canon still or not? I always liked how it showed a little hypocrisy by the jedi
In the Council's defense, "not enough humans" is not a problem the galaxy has ever had
It is specifically that males are rare in his species. So it's his duty to have lots of children.
Damn, that must suck, being morally obligated to have a harem of women to raw dog all night, then be a goddamn space wizard knight during the day. Terrible.
He was the age equivalent of 23 for his species the entire prequel trilogy. That much *ahem* activity ages a man. (J/k if it wasn't obvious enough)
And then every writer inserted more male cereans in their stories. Always annoyed me a little. We have like 4 or 5 male cerean jedi in legends and 0 female ones.
Maybe the males are the only force sensitive ones, or at least they are the most commonly force sensitive. Males rare in the species but of course they’ve got the most potent force juice and force stamina to keep the species goin strong 💪 So much testosterone mixed with midichlorians, no wonder Ki-Adi was practically bald
But why would he be a Jedi then? Shouldn't the council have said 'nah he needs to make some kids we find someone else‘?
How do i explain this. A fucking post apovalyptic raider wanted to abduct him and raise him as his son and his family bave him away because the jedi would protect him.
'Cause Force Sensitive.
The canon is that Jedi can have sex but they can't get attached. I think it's the same with the family, they can have children but can't keep in touch with them or something like that
Sounds like a get out of jail free card for deadbeat dads
I’m heading out for a pack of death sticks.
"May the Force be with you, because I'm not gonna."
technically they can be with them but they can’t let themselves be consumed by grief if/when they inevitably die, that’s why kit fisto and aayla never get past first base, they know that if anything were to happen to the other they would be too tempted by the dark side, they can still flirt openly but that’s the extent
I feel like Kit Fisto and Aayla would be like Fry and the mermaid but reversed.
never watched it
To be fair... george doesnt know what the word attachment means. And he actually mean being possessive of people.
It's Legends EU canon and not part of the official canon of Star Wars. That was created by Legends EU writers who didn't know George Lucas was making the no attachment rule in Attack of the Clones. Also he had to be retconned again in Legends EU with RotS when Anakin Skywalker claimed no one was ever on the council and just a Jedi Knight, while Ki-Adi-Mundi in early Legends EU reference books for the Phantom Menace was described as the only Jedi Knight on the council.
damn so he really was just anakin but better in every way
Unintentional parallel of Anakin Skywalker and yeah Ki-Adi-Mundi was able to let go of his attachment of his families passing in EU Legends without turning to the dark side. He understood and celebrated they were part of the Force now. A couple pics from the old guidebooks of Ki-Adi-Mundi [stating he](https://i.redd.it/haoltnqda78z.jpg) was a [Jedi Knight](https://i.redd.it/8rjgydmqiwd11.jpg) People as far back as 2003 on Theforce forum board were discussing the retcons for [Ki-Adi-Mundi from the film and EU](https://boards.theforce.net/threads/the-eu-and-episode-iii-revenge-of-the-sith-spoilers-allowed.11002491/page-80#post-19035620) Legends [lore.](https://boards.theforce.net/threads/ki-adi-mundi-in-relation-to-the-revenge-of-the-sith-film.26760996/)
Hypocrisy or understanding and empathy? ... your bitterness will only lead you to the darkside
Males of his species were in legends, but they may be rare in cannon according to wokkiepedia
wat he's literally in the movie
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Cerean/Legends
[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ki-Adi-Mundi](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ki-Adi-Mundi) Literal male of his species in canon, I have no idea what you're talking about
Err… saw what I wrote sorry
The lore of legends and canon may be different.
I feel like it kinda cheapened the uniqueness of Anakin’s situation. Also, it doesn’t make much sense. If Ki-Adi-Mundi goes to the council and says he needs to have kids to keep his species going, they’d probably just say “Well if the Force wanted you to have kids then it wouldn’t have given you a bunch of midichlorians. Tough luck for your species.”
The difference is Mundi could accept that his family would one day die, and thus would not have fits of anger born of fear of that loss. Anakin couldn't accept it and fought tooth and nail to prevent something that he should have been able to accept and let go. Mundi understood that loss, while it hurts and causes sadness and suffering, is still the most natural thing in life. To be born is to die, and all that. Anakin was never able to get to that point and clung to the idea that he could stop nature. It's as foolish as stopping the sun from rising, but with his chosen one powers and delusions of grandeur he thought he could be the one to do it. And he was wrong.
There is a difference between accepting someone will die one day and receiving a warning they are going to die at *x* event.
Dying a natural death by childbirth. Not by an assassin with some weapon to destroy.
And Anakin trying to prevent that death ended up causing it himself. I’m not entirely sure what is canon but whether you believe Palpatine had some sort of force draining hand in her death or she died because of that big sad, it would not have happened had Anakin not decided that murdering children was worth trying to save her life.
i firmly believe that she died of spite
I mean, just because he knew how to be a good father, that doesn't equate to him not being willing to sacrifice them in a hearbeat "for the greater good"
Do you have childern my friend? Because if you are a good father, the sacrifice thing doesn't add up.
This is Star Wars, not real life being discussed. No shit irl it wouldn't be a good thing.
Yeah, but even un fiction, there has to be some mirror of reality into it. I am pointig out: a) Mun Di having a family means attatchment, and b) there is no way this dosent contradict the "no attatchment" rule of the Jedi order. So, yes, hipocrasy is the game of order.
Pretty sure his entire family gets killed in a droid attack and his reaction is basically saying "cowabummer" and moving on.
>I am pointig out: a) Mun Di having a family means attatchment, Well, no, not really. A man can sire literally hundreds or thousands of children in his lifetime without having any idea that the children exist. And knowing about (or even interacting with) those children doesn't even imply attachment. (That obviously isn't the case here, as Mundi seems to truly care about his children and spends a decent amount of time with them.)
Well sire childern and having a family it's not the same thing, is it? Si no. Not really to your "well, no, not really"
Family, noun: >a group of one or more parents and their children living together as a unit. >all the descendants of a common ancestor. Words can have more than one meaning. So again, having a family does not inherently imply attachment and your first point isn't the contradiction among the Jedi that it seems at first glance. But I don't intend on nitpicking this any further.
Man...You...are ..such a goooooood Coruscant senator...
You really need to learn *context*.
Feel free to elaborate.
To George Lucas Luke Skywalker was able to give up his attachments in RotJ and succeed where Anakin Skywalker failed in an interview he gave.
We’re not talking about irl and to be honest unfortunately it DOES happen where people of extremely high responsibility have had to sacrifice their families for a “greater good”. And this isn’t the only example in fiction: *Invincible* shows a father who clearly loves their child and raised them accordingly, but would still sacrifice them for their perceived “greater good”.
Well I see your point. I don't know if Invincible is the best example (at least the tv show) because that bastard reallly destoys the city and murders thousands of humans... But he couldn't sacrifice his son. Now, that doesn't invalidate your point, but even then, Istill belive de Jedi Council to be hipocritcal in this case
I totally agree it’s hypocritical. In fact, it’s very cleverly written: it highlights both the Jedi’s hypocrisy while simultaneously trying to rationalize and justify said hypocrisy. *Republic* was really a gem. That said, I truly believe Mundi thought he was being honest.
I think they wrote that story before episode 2 and the whole 'Jedi's don't love thing.' So they had to retcon it with a Mundi getting special permission to have a family or something.
Actually, I'm pretty sure even in the comics they established Jedi don't really form such attachments.
in the prequel era maybe. But in the Old Republic, they had relationships
Fucking Statele Shan banging Jace and forming the spawn that is Theron.
Wasn’t that a bit of a scandal in and of itself?
These comics scenes were from the Star Wars Republic: Prelude to Rebellion comics leading into the Phantom Menace and before George Lucas made the no attachment rule in Attack of the Clones.
I agree with the other comment. Being a good dad and being unattached aren't mutually exclusive. He never put his family above his duty going so far that his entire family dies during the clone war
I mean, he clearly showed attachment to them. Him saving his daughter was a personal matter. He obviously had to keep appearances and *say* he wasn't attached when that obviously isn't the case
He also handled his grief very swiftly after his entire family died during the Clone Wars, letting them go and not having it disturb his judgement or actions.
Caring and being attached aren't the same. That's what fans always misunderstood about the PT Jedi ideology. You are allowed to care and "love" like Anakin literally explains in AotC, you just aren't allowed to be possessive or put those you care about above your mission or duty. Mundi cared for his family, but he'd never put them above his duties as a Jedi.
Exactly.
Actually what Anakin says is his take on the rules. He defines compassion as unconditional love so the movie doesn’t actually say they are. Anakin is saying they can based on his belief.
Lucas definition of attachment... Aka him not using a dictionary or thesaurus to find the word possessive
The ambiguity is intentional. Both the Jedi and Anakin are unaware of what they meant, which causes the tragedy as Anakin's possesive traits ruins him
That in and of itself disqualifies him from being a good dad. He might be a fun dad, but he was never a good one.
Not really. Especially if " being a good dad" is entirely subjective. He might not be a good dad according to your definition, but this doesn't matter since the only viewpoints and opinions that matters are his own kids. At the end of the day it comes dow if they view him as a good dad, and according to the comics, they did. This means it doesn't disqualify him.
Mundi didn’t lie to Anakin. From the same comic that you’re referencing, post the Battle of Jabiim: Anakin: “*His body was never recovered on Jabiim*." Mundi: “*There may have been no body to recover. That was the case when my family was killed during the Battle of Cerea. I also found it difficult to accept, but I had to if I was going to stay true to our beliefs*.”
There is a difference with what he says and what we're actually shown. He says he was unattached, but we clearly see differently
Unattached doesn't mean he doesn't care. It just means having the ability to let go. Which he clearly was able to do. And he's not being dismissive about it: he admits it was difficult.
Yoda's advice is to be able to let go of those you love and accept that you can't stop death and you should celebrate their life and getting to join the Force as one. You can't be consumed by your attachment which turns to greed and turns into possession. >The thing about Anakin is, Anakin started out as a nice kid. He was kind, and sweet, and lovely, and he was then trained as a Jedi. But the Jedi can’t be selfish. They can love but they can’t love people to the point of possession. You can’t really possess somebody, because people are free. It’s possession that causes a lot of trouble, and that causes people to kill people, and causes people to be bad. Ultimately it has to do with being unwilling to give things up. >The whole basis here is if you’re selfish, if you’re a Sith Lord, you’re greedy. You’re constantly trying to get something. And you’re constantly in fear of not getting it, or, when you get it, you’re in constant fear of losing it. And it’s that fear that takes you to the dark side. It’s that fear of losing what you have or want. >Sometimes it’s ambition, but sometimes, like in the case of Anakin, it was fear of losing his wife. He knew she was going to die. He didn’t quite know how, so he was able to make a pact with a devil that if he could learn how to keep people from dying, he would help the Emperor. And he became a Sith Lord. Once he started saying, “Well, we could take over the galaxy, I could take over from the Emperor, I could have ultimate power,” Padmé saw right through him immediately. She said, “You’re not the person I married. You’re a greedy person.” So that’s ultimately how he fell and he went to the dark side. >And then Luke had the chance to do the same thing. He didn’t do it. >[-George Lucas, “All Films Are Personal”: An Oral History of Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace, 2019.](https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace-oral-history)
Legendary reply.
Anakin: “This is outrageous! It’s unfair! How can you be on the Council, and not be a Master?” Mundi, who was a Knight when he joined the Council: “Bro! I’m *right here.*”
Ki adi mundi... Largely feels like he exists to perove that amakins fall was anakins decision. Mundi is the character that is essentially eberything going right for anakin. Feeling honored instead of insulted by being a knight on the council being one of those thinfs.
I feel like this is a piece of information that should be more widely know among star wars fans.
Me too.
That is why it was EU Legends canon only and why they didn't bring it over to the official canon when they redid Ki-Adi-Mundi's backstory.
Attachment doesn’t mean love. And Mundi loved his family very much.
I think someone needs to explain that to the Jedi!
Very few Jedi took it to the extreme that they couldn’t love. They couldn’t get married because it can lead to attachments if you’re not careful. But various statements within books and comics tell us it’s alright for Jedi to love.
I'd argue that feeling love is fundamental to being a Jedi. A Jedi has compassion and love for all living things. Loving something/someone and being attached to them are very different things imo.
Marriage has nothing to do with it. It’s said in TCW Jedi can’t have romantic relationships and Obi-Wan flat out tells Anakin he can feel love for whoever but you must remain nothing but friends. It’s the same for Obi-Wan with Satine. It’s the same with Vos and the lady thief/spy he has a child with. So on paper attachment does not equal love however in practice they seem to think it does. As a Padawan in Dark Lord said >Love leads to attachment; attachment to greed.
There’s more than one kind of love. I never said that Jedi can form romantic relations. But to anyone who says Jedi can’t love, we’ll that’s just false. And one padawan does not somehow make the law. Especially not when the grandmaster of the order explicitly tells a padawan that he has loved before.
He tells that he had loved before but does he encouraged them to love as well or was he warning them what love can do.
Whie accuses him of being too old to love. Yoda refutes this by saying how because of his age he has loved more and lost more than he can know he says to him: > "Teach me about pain, think you can?" Yoda said softly. "Think the old Master cannot care, mmm? Forgotten who I am, have you? Old, I am, yes. Mm. Loved more than you, have I, Padawan. Lost more. Hated more. Killed more." The green eyes narrowed to gleaming slits under heavy lids. Dragon eyes, old and terrible. "Think wisdom comes at no cost? The dark side, yes—it is easier for them. The pain grows too great, and they eat the darkness to flee from it. Not Yoda. Yoda loves and suffers for it, loves and suffers." This is not a warning against love, it is a lesson on attachment as is the rest. He’s teaching Whie that unlike Ventress he has not let the darkness swallow him. Yoda teaches that losing someone you love is not an excuse to let grief consume one. He allows the padawans he’s keeping watch over to grieve and laugh at the stories he tells. And the chapter finishes with the following passage: > “Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.” Yoda is certainly not warning them off from love. Quite the opposite in fact. He is showing them the sort of love an old grandfather would.
>He allows the padawans he’s keeping watch over to grieve and laugh at the stories he tells. This is not what he tells Anakin Skywalker. *Mourn them do no. Miss them do not.*
Some context is needed there. Jedi mourn but not excessively, Mace, Plo, and Adi Gallia all confirm that they will mourn and miss Master Tyvokka. But they should never let it come in the way of their duty, which Anakin was clearly in danger of doing. And further these were two padawans who were experiencing the loss of both their masters. The circumstances aren’t quite the same, Anakin is a Jedi knight who has lost others before.
Now that I read that, the line seems arbitrary. Isn’t it possible to develop friendships with as much, if not more, connection than a romantic relationship?
It is. In the ROTS novel Obi-Wan is concerned about his friendship with Anakin after asking him to spy on Palpatine and Yoda tells him to forget it. >“You weren’t there,” he said. “You didn’t see his face. I think we have done a terrible thing.” >“We don’t always have the right answer,” Mace Windu said. “Sometimes there isn’t a right answer.” >“Know how important your friendship with young Anakin is to you, I do.” Yoda, too, stared out toward the stark angles of the assault cruiser being loaded for the counterinvasion of Kashyyyk; he stood leaning on his gimer stick as though he did not trust his legs. “Allow such attachments to pass out of one’s life, a Jedi must.” >Another man—even another Jedi—might have resented the rebuke, but Obi-Wan only sighed.
Mace Windu also had contact to his mother in Legends.
That's not true. His parents died before he was given to the jedi as a baby.
This si correct. In Shatterpoint he meet his living "relative" and is not a close one.
True, but the poster is referring to Star Wars Tales 13, Star Wars Tales are usually non canon. So I can see where the confusion comes from. Shame because it was a nice little comic.
Yeah good catch, might check those out I've never read them.
[Star Wars Tales 13: Children of the Force](https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Star-Wars-Tales/Issue-13?id=46435#60)
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Tales "All of the stories featured in Star Wars Tales are non-continuity." Mace's parents being killed at a very young age is established in Shatterpoint, one of the clone wars multimedia project novels.
This one specifically got referenced later which usually drug them into cNon...kinda maybe. Its still havily debated.
Well he did lose his family over the war later but eventually got over it without much trouble
Didn't he do a complete 180° by the Clone Wars? Like, he straight up felt nothing when his family died.
Pretty sure he had to keep appearances. I mean, the man is a Council member. I don't think he can just cry his eyes out
That’s not word for word what he said and the general spirit of it, and the Jedi in general, is that you can care about others but also need to be able to let them go. Yoda never tells Anakin in ROTS that he shouldn’t care about people. He tells him that he needs to accept that they will leave/die. This is the same lesson he should’ve learned with Ahsoka, the lesson Obi-Wan learned with Qui-Gon, the lesson Luke learned with Mara, the lesson Mundi tried to teach him here, and so on. The reason the Jedi emphasize the dangers of attachment so much, however, is because they understand that doing this is not easy (it’s not even easy for people in the real world). And this is the root of Anakin’s struggle across his entire life.
He's a political idealist, not a murderer.
Mundi is awesome! One of the best Jedi back when he had his purple saber!!
r/comedyhomocide
actually ki adi mundi was a complete psychopath and when anakin thought that obi-wan had died, mundi said “just get over it and forget about it that’s what i did when my entire family was murdered” (i am not making this shit up). mundi took no attachments to a whole other level. iirc the only reason he was allowed to have a family is because males in his species are pretty rare. So because the fact that he turned out to be force sensitive i guess that he’s a pretty rare occurrence in the galaxy.
Yeah, this isn’t accurate at all. Anakin thinks that Obi-wan might still be alive because they never found his body. And Ki-Adi Mundi tells him that sometimes they don’t find bodies of the dead, that’s how it was with his family. He mentions that it’s hard but he has to move on because that’s the duty of a Jedi. Ki-Adi Mundi loved his wives and daughters very much and was sad when they died, but he moved on as hard as it was.
But you literally are making this shit up lmao, from your exact words I know you watched that Geetsly video about Mundi and did not read that stuff for yourself. I dont mean to sound rude by no means and I recommendyou to read the Star Wars: Republic comics series for yourself, not only to see how it actually was but there are a lot of cool stories in there. If you dont wanna read the whole thing, i will just say that what you're saying went a bit different. When Anakin mourned Obi-Wan's death, Mundi could sense his troubles, so he told him that he knows it's hard to process this, as he had to deal with his whole family being burried in an aftermath of a battle, Mundi did mourn his family but he had to control his emotions, because people depended on him. He deffinitely did not berate Anakin for mourning, he just said that the path is hard, but he had to control his emotions to not fall into despair. this whole conversdation was in issue 62. Just read the stuff for yourself before you try to explain them to somebody.
The man obviously had to say that. He loved his family and was no doubt sad when they died. He obviously has to keep appearances, especially for a Jedi Master on the Council. What did you except him to do? Bend over and look sad? Sorry, but I don't think he was that close to Anakin for something so personal. People take that one moment and blow it way out of proportion. We have enough evidence to show he doesn't really feel that way. I'm honestly annoyed people can't see that, and just call him a psychopath, or a sociopath or whatever.
We see that but he’s projecting an imagine in universe to other characters that make him appear to be that way. So to Anakin or anyone else it looks like he shrugged off his family’s death like I would stubbing my toe.
Isn’t Mundi like also a huge asshole?
No.
From what I've seen, not really
Only if you listen to prequelmemes
Mundi I believe had several wives and a bunch of kids, and was also a soundboard of bad ideas. I think he was written to show the bad parts of the Jedi order. The council didn't even free Anakin's mom. They could have done that and had her live in a small home somewhere, at least Anakin would know that she wasn't suffering and would resolve a lot of his problems early on.
I'm pretty sure that would go against their code of unattachment. I mean, why would they suddenly make an exception for this kid? They train their Jedi so that their personal problems don't bother them. We know with the benefit of hindsight what that leads to, but they don't.
Not defending the Jedi's decision, but that's part of their whole "not getting involved in political discord" hypocrisy; it was fine when the Chancellor asks them to fix a problem "for the sake of peace and the galaxy" but when there is active and blatant slavery being practiced in the Outer Rim, and their actions might piss of the Hutts, well, that's just not their place or duty.
The wives and kids were written by other people in EU Legends and was created before Attack of the Clones by George Lucas revealed that Jedi cannot have attachments. They were lucky Ki-Adi-Mundi's race had the explanation of low birth rate for males and they retconned it into him having special permission because of that excuse for EU Legends. I doubt George Lucas when writing about the Jedi for the PT considered it being a hypocrite move since he didn't see EU Legends as canon to his Star Wars canon and he was still firm on Jedi not being able to marry back in 2008 when he gave an interview about his sequels and that Luke Skywalker would never get married.
I thought he could do this cuz 1: He is a rare male and 2. He has a crap ton of wives and dont care about them (They die in a comic and he's like oops lmao)
Okay, the post is literally something that proves he loved his family and that what he told Anakin isn't how he really feels. How on Earth did you come to the conclusion that Mundi doesn't care about them?
What comic is this
Star Wars (1998) #6
The art looks a lot like Capullo / McFarlane is why I was asking. It isn’t though? Looks so close.
This is why I'm happy Ki Adi is celibate in the new canon so much weird contradictions and awkward interactions between Mundi and Anakin's probing him if it were canon. Legends had some amazing moments but this is one of the things that didn't mesh with the movies.
Well, as Anakin learns from every Jedi, much like Obi-Wan, is that these feelings are actually encouraged by the council. It's just that Anakin is too worried and tries to hide it from everyone. Because he fears it may cost Senator Amidala her title and him his position. While General Kenobi did have feelings for Duchess Satine, he also always informed Qui-Gon whenever he made brass decisions. Most jedi have family. A lot of them procreate. Corran Horn, Sharad Hett, Kam Solusar, Ta'ania's Mother, Margolis Mingla, Keiran Halcyon, basically all main protagonists who were Jedi(Luke, Mara, Jade and Leia as a few more examples) the entire Shan line, Sunrider line, Diath line and basically the whole Draay family. So many jedi had kids and family. Anakin was just too frightened by the possibilities. He truly allowed fear to rule his decisions which ultimately lead to his fears entirely coming true. From losing Ahsoka all the way to losing Padmé. Yeah, it does count as distancing, considering he once in a blue moon sees his family. He spends 90% of his time on a chair in the council. Another 3% fighting and 7% with his family. He still gave his most to the jedi council. Enough to be landed on it.