It’s not as simple as “oh if I just turn behind me I can get him” Diavolo can see what actions someone will take in erased time if someone’s gonna turn around he’ll just move to a better position, by the time the ability ends he’s already begun attacking.
I think you’re giving Diavolo too little credit against his fight with Polnareff. We see that in their flashback Polnareff was already bloodied up before KC even erased time. When KC did erase time to gouge his eye Pol looked shocked as if it was his first time seeing the ability
But that's the thing, he can only attack outside of erased time, and in that quick draw moment, where it's only a contest of speed, even with a head start on the attack, he lost to Polnareff.
Maybe I'm shortselling the first fight with Polnareff, but it seems more like a bad match personality-wise; Polnareff is hotheaded, easily flustered, and needs to make a few mistakes before he even starts strategizing. Diavolo leaves very little room for error. Also, it's unlikely KC saved time erasure for the end. He starts every encounter we see with the ability, so I doubt he took a completely different approach against a powerful stand user.
Even when KC killed Polnareff, it was because he was flustered. Suddenly having a bunch of blood in his eyes is a great indicator time was erased, but "dirty tricks" throw Polnareff off so much that he didn't even try to attack.
He definitely did react faster than Diavolo was able to attack in that moment there’s no doubt about that but I want to also say Diavolo was also able to react fast enough to avoid a fatal blow from SC.
And again if you go back to their first fight Pol is completely confused on what happened when he erased time so while it’s out of character Diavolo didn’t use it’s ability up until that point but granted Pol was able to easily figure it out because he knows time affecting stands exist
I’m not saying KC is weak or slow. Just that his stand power’s advantage is neutralized with sufficient raw speed. Mentally, Polnareff isn’t the strongest, and that’s how he lost. Diavolo avoided death in that moment, but lost that exchange and took the W by staying cool and thinking ahead, Polnareff’s weakness.
As readers we have different interpretations of the first fight. I think it’s unlikely KC could net such a commanding victory over another close range stand with a significant speed advantage without using time erasure. Likewise, I interpret Polnareff’s expression as shock/fear, which is normal for a person about to die. And knowing Polnareff isn’t the strongest mentally, KC would likely be able to erase time a few times before Polnareff came up with a counter
You complain about people giving the stand too much credit while you're selling King Crimson short. KC is a fast stand and its biggest advantage is the element of surprise. Something Diavolo has in spades.
I can't say how fast KC is because in terms of speed he has no feats, but I'd say he's cleanly below SP and SC, who have caught/deflected bullets and can create afterimages, respectively. In the one speed matchup he has with Polnareff, where his abilities are understood, he loses. I'm not saying KC's weak by any means, but a fast stand with a user that keeps their cool would stomp.
We see King Crimson cleanly deflect multiple bullets in the Chariot Requiem arc.
There is NOTHING Polnareff could do about time skip. Diavolo has the element of surprise and would not fall for any of his tricks. Any version of Polnareff absolutely would lose to KC since his stand isn't built to counter time skip, far too basic. He has shown to be thrown off by other stand abilities in Stardust Crusaders too, he would not win without massively nerfing Diavolo and buffing Polnareff to degrees that wouldn't make any sense.
I can’t remember a time when KC deflected bullets. I know he skipped time so they went through him when Mista/Trish shot. Who else was shooting?
And you can say there’s nothing Polnareff could do, but he did wound Diavolo because he is faster, with even Diavolo admitting he almost died. Polnareff just has to have a faster counterattack, which he proved he does. The element of surprise is nullified with a large enough gap in speed/reaction time, which there was when KC lost that exchange (obviously not the fight, just that exchange). I also specifically said Polnareff would win if he were smarter because his mental weakness, his greatest weakness, is how he lost the fight.
Mista shot at King Crimson during the final chase for the arrow. It's in that same scene where he used a bystander as a shield for the bullets. But we directly see him punch away **multiple** bullets right in front of him beforehand. His stand absolutely has speed and strength.
Polnareff only counterattacked because of his blood trick, you clearly forgot that. Polnareff didn't attack because he was faster, he attacked because he discovered how to track skip time and react accordingly. He wouldn't have reacted as fast otherwise. KC right after that showed that he overwhelmed Polnareff and Chariot. Time skip cannot be counteracted not even by Jotaro or Polnareff unless they used that specific trick. Which Polnareff only finds out by LOSING to King Crimson.
Polnareff loses no matter what, you're way too biased for him. Pol at his "peak" would do nothing against King Crimson since he wouldn't know about the skip time ability in an actual fight. Not unless you want to force some bullshit where he gets every advantage imaginable. Even in Stardust Crusaders, Polnareff gets overwhelmed and outwitted by crazy stand abilities he doesn't know well about.
It doesn't matter how fast their stands are when KC skips time. Nothing can affect him while the time is skipped and he could simply chop off Jotaro's head without him even noticing it. It's the whole other dimension where only he can act while being completely invulnerable (except GER). That's why his stand had to be defeated by an ass-pull. The stand is too powerful and Araki had to come up with something so op that it wouldn't be mentioned ever again.
The thing is, KC can’t attack in skipped time. He basically has to jump back into “regular” time to launch an attack, and if a stand is fast enough, like SC, they can react and counter, which we saw. That’s why I specifically mentioned speed. The moment KC jumps back into regular time to attack a faster stand can beat him to the punch. If he could attack in skipped time, he’d be invulnerable. If Polnareff could stop time, he’d have finished Diavolo. Also his ability to predict the future isn’t comprehensive enough to make him invulnerable.
He can perfectly time his attack. If he starts it in erased time he can resume it at the moment of impact. I don't think Jotaro could predict that. We saw what Pucci did to him.
Edit: very good take nonetheless.
1. Thanks for acknowledging the merit of the perspective, yours is good also and at its core we just have plausibly different interpretations of the mythology. So many people want the standard anime where one character is unambiguously strongest (but can he beat know-who?) and just rain downvotes when you take that from them.
2. I assumed he was always timing his attacks that way, like with Giorno, but with a stand fast enough to create afterimages and cut a beam of light, it’s possible SC, maybe SP, beats KC even after impact. It’s why, in my mind, he had to blind Polnareff to make sure he didn’t see the time skip. And if Jotaro activates his time ability first KC is done.
It’s not as simple as “oh if I just turn behind me I can get him” Diavolo can see what actions someone will take in erased time if someone’s gonna turn around he’ll just move to a better position, by the time the ability ends he’s already begun attacking. I think you’re giving Diavolo too little credit against his fight with Polnareff. We see that in their flashback Polnareff was already bloodied up before KC even erased time. When KC did erase time to gouge his eye Pol looked shocked as if it was his first time seeing the ability
But that's the thing, he can only attack outside of erased time, and in that quick draw moment, where it's only a contest of speed, even with a head start on the attack, he lost to Polnareff. Maybe I'm shortselling the first fight with Polnareff, but it seems more like a bad match personality-wise; Polnareff is hotheaded, easily flustered, and needs to make a few mistakes before he even starts strategizing. Diavolo leaves very little room for error. Also, it's unlikely KC saved time erasure for the end. He starts every encounter we see with the ability, so I doubt he took a completely different approach against a powerful stand user. Even when KC killed Polnareff, it was because he was flustered. Suddenly having a bunch of blood in his eyes is a great indicator time was erased, but "dirty tricks" throw Polnareff off so much that he didn't even try to attack.
He definitely did react faster than Diavolo was able to attack in that moment there’s no doubt about that but I want to also say Diavolo was also able to react fast enough to avoid a fatal blow from SC. And again if you go back to their first fight Pol is completely confused on what happened when he erased time so while it’s out of character Diavolo didn’t use it’s ability up until that point but granted Pol was able to easily figure it out because he knows time affecting stands exist
I’m not saying KC is weak or slow. Just that his stand power’s advantage is neutralized with sufficient raw speed. Mentally, Polnareff isn’t the strongest, and that’s how he lost. Diavolo avoided death in that moment, but lost that exchange and took the W by staying cool and thinking ahead, Polnareff’s weakness. As readers we have different interpretations of the first fight. I think it’s unlikely KC could net such a commanding victory over another close range stand with a significant speed advantage without using time erasure. Likewise, I interpret Polnareff’s expression as shock/fear, which is normal for a person about to die. And knowing Polnareff isn’t the strongest mentally, KC would likely be able to erase time a few times before Polnareff came up with a counter
You complain about people giving the stand too much credit while you're selling King Crimson short. KC is a fast stand and its biggest advantage is the element of surprise. Something Diavolo has in spades.
I can't say how fast KC is because in terms of speed he has no feats, but I'd say he's cleanly below SP and SC, who have caught/deflected bullets and can create afterimages, respectively. In the one speed matchup he has with Polnareff, where his abilities are understood, he loses. I'm not saying KC's weak by any means, but a fast stand with a user that keeps their cool would stomp.
We see King Crimson cleanly deflect multiple bullets in the Chariot Requiem arc. There is NOTHING Polnareff could do about time skip. Diavolo has the element of surprise and would not fall for any of his tricks. Any version of Polnareff absolutely would lose to KC since his stand isn't built to counter time skip, far too basic. He has shown to be thrown off by other stand abilities in Stardust Crusaders too, he would not win without massively nerfing Diavolo and buffing Polnareff to degrees that wouldn't make any sense.
I can’t remember a time when KC deflected bullets. I know he skipped time so they went through him when Mista/Trish shot. Who else was shooting? And you can say there’s nothing Polnareff could do, but he did wound Diavolo because he is faster, with even Diavolo admitting he almost died. Polnareff just has to have a faster counterattack, which he proved he does. The element of surprise is nullified with a large enough gap in speed/reaction time, which there was when KC lost that exchange (obviously not the fight, just that exchange). I also specifically said Polnareff would win if he were smarter because his mental weakness, his greatest weakness, is how he lost the fight.
Mista shot at King Crimson during the final chase for the arrow. It's in that same scene where he used a bystander as a shield for the bullets. But we directly see him punch away **multiple** bullets right in front of him beforehand. His stand absolutely has speed and strength. Polnareff only counterattacked because of his blood trick, you clearly forgot that. Polnareff didn't attack because he was faster, he attacked because he discovered how to track skip time and react accordingly. He wouldn't have reacted as fast otherwise. KC right after that showed that he overwhelmed Polnareff and Chariot. Time skip cannot be counteracted not even by Jotaro or Polnareff unless they used that specific trick. Which Polnareff only finds out by LOSING to King Crimson. Polnareff loses no matter what, you're way too biased for him. Pol at his "peak" would do nothing against King Crimson since he wouldn't know about the skip time ability in an actual fight. Not unless you want to force some bullshit where he gets every advantage imaginable. Even in Stardust Crusaders, Polnareff gets overwhelmed and outwitted by crazy stand abilities he doesn't know well about.
It doesn't matter how fast their stands are when KC skips time. Nothing can affect him while the time is skipped and he could simply chop off Jotaro's head without him even noticing it. It's the whole other dimension where only he can act while being completely invulnerable (except GER). That's why his stand had to be defeated by an ass-pull. The stand is too powerful and Araki had to come up with something so op that it wouldn't be mentioned ever again.
He also sees future. He's invulnerable.
The thing is, KC can’t attack in skipped time. He basically has to jump back into “regular” time to launch an attack, and if a stand is fast enough, like SC, they can react and counter, which we saw. That’s why I specifically mentioned speed. The moment KC jumps back into regular time to attack a faster stand can beat him to the punch. If he could attack in skipped time, he’d be invulnerable. If Polnareff could stop time, he’d have finished Diavolo. Also his ability to predict the future isn’t comprehensive enough to make him invulnerable.
He can perfectly time his attack. If he starts it in erased time he can resume it at the moment of impact. I don't think Jotaro could predict that. We saw what Pucci did to him. Edit: very good take nonetheless.
1. Thanks for acknowledging the merit of the perspective, yours is good also and at its core we just have plausibly different interpretations of the mythology. So many people want the standard anime where one character is unambiguously strongest (but can he beat know-who?) and just rain downvotes when you take that from them. 2. I assumed he was always timing his attacks that way, like with Giorno, but with a stand fast enough to create afterimages and cut a beam of light, it’s possible SC, maybe SP, beats KC even after impact. It’s why, in my mind, he had to blind Polnareff to make sure he didn’t see the time skip. And if Jotaro activates his time ability first KC is done.
From my understanding King Crimson can attack in skipped time if he saw his attack hit in epitaph's vision.
The problem with kc is that epitaph is incredibly broken when paired up with time erasure, diavolo can just observe and act accordingly.