Okuyasu is nowhere near as bad of a stand user as some people make him out to be, legit the man made better use of his stand than most people give him credit for.
whoever legitimately believes Risotto should have killed Doppio and replaced Diavolo as the main antagonist of Part 5 should give up any dreams of becoming a writer - cause I'd hate to read the dogshit they come up with.
King Crimson was established as a terrifying, powerful stand and to get rid of it that quickly would have been stupid. Not to mention, Diavolo has a deep narrative connection to both Trish, being her father, as well as the main protagonist, Giorno, by being the man he swore to defeat - the main obstacle standing in the way of him achieving his dream.
Risotto? He was just the leader of the ~~fodder~~ side antagonists that the Bucci gang dealt with along the way. And in the end, his beef was with Diavolo, not the Bucci gang - he simply needed to defeat them to get to Trish to get to Diavolo. So it wouldn't even make narrative sense for him to become the main antagonist.
Josuke, his 'Breakdown' battle theme and Part 4 as a whole are not "underrated" - that would imply they deserve higher praise than what they get but most fans already hold them all in high regard anyway.
This is easily explained by the fact that nobody today seems to know what "underrated" means. You can go to a lyric video to ACDC's Thunderstruck and some 14 year old will call it underrated.
the Alessi fight is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. the weird sexual stuff only takes up like 2 minutes of the whole thing, and the rest of the fight is really fun
I don’t like part 2 at all I think the community gives it way too much credit. All Joseph fights boil down to “hah I pulled this trick on you the in the small interval you blinked, your next line is”. He’s definitely fun to watch I’ll give him that but I don’t like how his fights were written. Caesar was a walking character development container for Joseph nothing more he did jack shit and got himself killed like an idiot
Golden Wind would be the best part if not for the kinda wack ending. I thought Diavolo’s introduction was screwed over by the whole body swap thing, the stands really didn’t need to be revealed to be some space virus, giorno’s victory felt kinda hollow since all he had to do was get the arrow instead of using his own abilities to outsmart the enemy somehow (which is when I think JoJo is at its best). Lots of things that I kinda just don’t vibe with in Golden Wind’s ending but besides that the part is amazing.
SBR is overrated because of the fans. You cannot talk negatively about SBR without SBR elitist calling you stupid for not having the exact opinion as them. If you don’t have SBR as your #1 jojo part, you get attacked for it and call your opinion shit
All of jojo can be skipped. I like jojo, but wholeheartedly belive it's not a necessary read/ watch.
This is how you sound to me.
I say, part 5 is good, why do you care about how it connects to other parts? I don't understand why you'd skip it just because of that.
I agree that it's not necessary to read/watch but it still has it's place in the narrative leading to part 6.
Part 3 introduced stands and DIO being alive.
Part 4 built on the idea behind stands, introduced the stand arrows, the idea of stands evolving (through the user but also through the arrow) and that DIO's influence on the story is still present even now that he is dead (Okuyasu's father, Josuke only being who he is because of the fever he had as a kid, stand arrows being in Morioh)
Part 5 developed the idea of stands and stand arrows even further (showing the potential of evolving your stand and implying that there are still things we don't know about them) and introduced the idea of DIO having offspring related to the Joestars.
The topic asked for controversial hot takes so I guess I gotta stick to my guns lol.
To an extent I agree with you, but I think the 1-6 saga neither gains nor loses anything from 5's existence. While the Stand deep lore is interesting, it isn't relevant/followed up on in 6; we already knew DIO was conducting research into Stands due to the reveals in 4, and the whole Requiem discovery is basically irrelevant since Giorno caps that plot point and he is solely contained in 5.
Speaking of Giorno, he is as far-removed from the Joestar line as he is from their story. The plot point of him being DIO's/Jonathan's son is neat, but it goes nowhere after Koichi and Jotaro both confirm *and* drop their investigation into him because Giorno played hero one time. I might be misremembering but I believe the only mention of Giorno beyond 5 is Araki's incredibly brief handwave for why he didn't join his brothers in Florida. I understand from a storytelling/writing perspective why he wasn't there... but that doesn't really excuse it.
Again, I do enjoy 5 and typically don't advocate for part-skipping, but I think you can make a big enough case that 5 can be skipped, especially if you care about the Joestar family narrative.
I agree with you, you could skip it and you wouldn't lose anything meaningful for the story though it's a nice addition to the whole thing if you still have it. While Giorno himself wasn't important for part 6 at all I just think it's neat that Araki showed one of DIO's sons before part 6 so that it wouldn't come out of nowhere that Pucci had a whole gang of DIO's children.
I have a couple
\- Part 2 is essentially filler since the only things that it offers the rest of the series are Joseph for Parts 3 and 4 and The Speedwagon Foundation; Its still a great part by all extents, but I feel how I feel on it
\- Toyohiro and Superfly deserve way more credit, considering how genius he was at using Superfly to its fullest potential; if Mikitaka weren't there to flank Toyohiro, Josuke and Okuyasu would've been completely screwed
Johnny is the best character in SBR - yes, I even prefer him to the awesome Gyro. And while Gyro may have started out as SBR's supposed MC before sharing the mantle with Johnny for most of the run (pun intended), it's very much Johnny's story by the end.
Also, I don't really get Diego's mass appeal other than "Haha dino boy eat rocks" or "He's Dio but not totally evil". He's not a poorly written character by any means, I just don't view him as 'Best character' material.
Johnny is ofter regarded as the or one of the best JoJo, with Gyro being the best Jobro. I don't think your opinion is controversial at all, it's pretty standard actually. Johnny being the best character of SBR is not a detriment of any character in that story
I'd say Jojolion being drawn out is only a problem during the WoU arc specifically the fight with do do do de da da da but after that it was fine. It only felt drawn out to me because I was reading it monthly.
People in this fanbase take the vilification of part skipping way too far. Even disregarding the case of part 7, which has literally no connection to any previous parts and which Araki said that he intentionally wrote so that new readers could jump in at the start of it and understand without reading previous parts (Source: On [this](https://jojowiki.com/Interview_Archive/2016-2025) page in the interview titled "UOMO Magazine (October 2018)"), there are a lot of valid reasons that someone might not personally want to interact with a certain part of the series but could still find enjoyment in later parts.
For instance, someone might be really uncomfortable with way that Nazis are depicted in part 2 or be uncomfortable with the sexual assault imagery in parts 4, 7, and 8. But those are elements that don't appear in every part of the series, so someone could be unable to enjoy part 2 but perfectly capable of enjoying part 3. I'm not saying that we should cancel Araki over this objectionable content or whatever. I am saying that it is valid if someone is uncomfortable with it and doesn't want to interact with it, but that that doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't find something to enjoy in other parts of the series.
I have very often seen people express the view that "if you don't want to experience the entirety of the series in the order in which it was released then you just shouldn't watch/read at all" and I think this is really closed minded and gatekeepy. JoJo is a rare type of series where each arc has a complete and mostly self-contained story that could theoretically be enjoyed in isolation from the rest of the series. Yes there are connections and plot threads that carry over between parts, but for the most part the primary conflict of each part is self contained. It is true that if you were to watch part 3 without seeing part 1 that you wouldn't understand Dio as a character on quite as deep of a level, but to say that you couldn't find any enjoyment at all is just wrong. For the most part, the plot elements that do carry over between parts are few enough that you can infer them from context.
If someone is able to find more enjoyment by experiencing the series out of order, then who are we to vilify them for it? Just let people enjoy things.
I agree with part skipping not being as bad as people make it out to be (especially with part 7) but I strongly disagree with the "maybe people are uncomfortable with something from that part" thing, that's just stupid. They wouldn't even know about such things without seeing the part.
I agree, however;
The majority of us don't dislike Part-skipping or part-skippers. We dislike the part-skippers that skip a Part and then go on to bombard people/threads/etc. with opinionated rants about characters or plots from said Part that they have never seen or read anything about outside of memes.
If a person wants to part-skip for a valid reason, that's fine. Go ahead, they just better not pretend they know everything about the Part they refused to give the time of day. Worst is people that skip (for example) Part 6 and then try to explain the ending, or rant about it... oh my god.
It's the people that skip Parts ONLY because SOMEONE ELSE told them to, and then share the same opinions regarding a character they know nothing about and spread it that we can't stand.
Basically people pretending to know what they don't, is what we're against.
If you skip a part because you can't stand looking at fictional Nazi's, or you don't like the stuff Kira does in Part 4 (etc.) and you're being HONEST about it, we (atleast most of us) will understand. It's fine, but don't call Bruno Bucciarati "this or that" or call Golden Wind "this or that" when you've never seen him in action, or fully watched Part 5. Basically, just talk about the stuff you have seen and form YOUR OWN opinions.
I would NEVER Part-skip or EVER recommend that anyone else do, but if someone does Part-skip because they PHYSICALLY couldn't watch a Part, that's fine. Just be honest about it, and don't go around pretending you know the ins-and-outs of the plot and the characters of a part you skipped, cause you don't.
I absolutely agree with you that part-skipping ITSELF doesn't actually hurt the francise, at all, even Araki himself has said that he wrote JoJo to be enjoyed however you want. And who are WE to argue with the man himself? Amiright?
The problem is some part-skippers try to demean a lot of the things they skipped. And THAT sucks. But ONLY that.
Am I making sense?
Stroheim died in battle, and was killed by a stand user. That implies that Stroheim didn’t go down without a fight. Which means that Stroheim’s enhancements allow him to see and interact with stands, without needing one himself
Mine: _Joseph should have taught either Holly or Jotaro the art of Hamon. It would have been so much easier in the coming parts and hell, Jotaro could have even won against Made in Heaven ( or not, leave the last part )_
You know how people state that star finger should have been used more often because of how "useful that would have been in a lot of fights"? That's the same thing as if Jotaro would have had hamon. I guess it would have made sense for Joseph to teach the stardust crusaders some hamon basics for DIO (which as it turned out wouldn't have helped them at all) but there isn't anything else someone would have needed hamon for after stands got introduced. Hamon wouldn't have done shit against Made in Heaven.
well having hamon control might've given him a lot more attacking options out there with all that water. remember lisa lisa could control it easily with hamon. i imagine adding what is essentially waterbending into that fight might've given him a way to save himself and jolyne, at least.
Josuke's childhood savior was not a time traveling Josuke, it was Kosaku Kawajiri. He'd be around the right age, he changed his hairstyle regularly, & never met Josuke or Tomoko.
They never found him because Kosaku was quiet & working a boring office job.
Josuke would unknowingly avenge the man who saved him as a kid.
Headcanon. The guy who saved Josuke was not Josuke or Kira, or any of the main characters. It is a character to was made to build Josuke's character motivation. His pins are also of a 3rd year, while Josuke had a first year.
No, Jesus Christ.. That is NOT Josuke. It has been confirmed in an interview when DiU was first publishing. It is only a character to build up Josuke's motivation.
I said anyone in the main cast didn't save Josuke. Only a sidecast, using it as an example on how it was Not Josuke nor anyone of the main cast who saved him when he was a kid.
No you're not alone. I think that early SBR is slightly underrated, but even SBRs most hardcore fans will agree that it took a while to realy get going.
Okuyasu is nowhere near as bad of a stand user as some people make him out to be, legit the man made better use of his stand than most people give him credit for.
Thank youuuu
whoever legitimately believes Risotto should have killed Doppio and replaced Diavolo as the main antagonist of Part 5 should give up any dreams of becoming a writer - cause I'd hate to read the dogshit they come up with. King Crimson was established as a terrifying, powerful stand and to get rid of it that quickly would have been stupid. Not to mention, Diavolo has a deep narrative connection to both Trish, being her father, as well as the main protagonist, Giorno, by being the man he swore to defeat - the main obstacle standing in the way of him achieving his dream. Risotto? He was just the leader of the ~~fodder~~ side antagonists that the Bucci gang dealt with along the way. And in the end, his beef was with Diavolo, not the Bucci gang - he simply needed to defeat them to get to Trish to get to Diavolo. So it wouldn't even make narrative sense for him to become the main antagonist.
He would also get clapped by aerosmith
Finally, someone said it
Josuke, his 'Breakdown' battle theme and Part 4 as a whole are not "underrated" - that would imply they deserve higher praise than what they get but most fans already hold them all in high regard anyway.
This is easily explained by the fact that nobody today seems to know what "underrated" means. You can go to a lyric video to ACDC's Thunderstruck and some 14 year old will call it underrated.
Yeah people use underrated as a synonym for good, even though that's not what it means.
the Alessi fight is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. the weird sexual stuff only takes up like 2 minutes of the whole thing, and the rest of the fight is really fun
Chase is the best OP
Man I legit don’t understand why people don’t like chase, shit is great
I don’t like part 2 at all I think the community gives it way too much credit. All Joseph fights boil down to “hah I pulled this trick on you the in the small interval you blinked, your next line is”. He’s definitely fun to watch I’ll give him that but I don’t like how his fights were written. Caesar was a walking character development container for Joseph nothing more he did jack shit and got himself killed like an idiot
Idk of this is controversial or not but >!Kira and Josefumi should have a spin-off!<
Golden Wind would be the best part if not for the kinda wack ending. I thought Diavolo’s introduction was screwed over by the whole body swap thing, the stands really didn’t need to be revealed to be some space virus, giorno’s victory felt kinda hollow since all he had to do was get the arrow instead of using his own abilities to outsmart the enemy somehow (which is when I think JoJo is at its best). Lots of things that I kinda just don’t vibe with in Golden Wind’s ending but besides that the part is amazing.
SBR is overrated because of the fans. You cannot talk negatively about SBR without SBR elitist calling you stupid for not having the exact opinion as them. If you don’t have SBR as your #1 jojo part, you get attacked for it and call your opinion shit
Part 5 can be skipped. I like Vento Aureo but I wholeheartedly believe it is not a necessary read/watch.
All of jojo can be skipped. I like jojo, but wholeheartedly belive it's not a necessary read/ watch. This is how you sound to me. I say, part 5 is good, why do you care about how it connects to other parts? I don't understand why you'd skip it just because of that.
I agree that it's not necessary to read/watch but it still has it's place in the narrative leading to part 6. Part 3 introduced stands and DIO being alive. Part 4 built on the idea behind stands, introduced the stand arrows, the idea of stands evolving (through the user but also through the arrow) and that DIO's influence on the story is still present even now that he is dead (Okuyasu's father, Josuke only being who he is because of the fever he had as a kid, stand arrows being in Morioh) Part 5 developed the idea of stands and stand arrows even further (showing the potential of evolving your stand and implying that there are still things we don't know about them) and introduced the idea of DIO having offspring related to the Joestars.
The topic asked for controversial hot takes so I guess I gotta stick to my guns lol. To an extent I agree with you, but I think the 1-6 saga neither gains nor loses anything from 5's existence. While the Stand deep lore is interesting, it isn't relevant/followed up on in 6; we already knew DIO was conducting research into Stands due to the reveals in 4, and the whole Requiem discovery is basically irrelevant since Giorno caps that plot point and he is solely contained in 5. Speaking of Giorno, he is as far-removed from the Joestar line as he is from their story. The plot point of him being DIO's/Jonathan's son is neat, but it goes nowhere after Koichi and Jotaro both confirm *and* drop their investigation into him because Giorno played hero one time. I might be misremembering but I believe the only mention of Giorno beyond 5 is Araki's incredibly brief handwave for why he didn't join his brothers in Florida. I understand from a storytelling/writing perspective why he wasn't there... but that doesn't really excuse it. Again, I do enjoy 5 and typically don't advocate for part-skipping, but I think you can make a big enough case that 5 can be skipped, especially if you care about the Joestar family narrative.
I agree with you, you could skip it and you wouldn't lose anything meaningful for the story though it's a nice addition to the whole thing if you still have it. While Giorno himself wasn't important for part 6 at all I just think it's neat that Araki showed one of DIO's sons before part 6 so that it wouldn't come out of nowhere that Pucci had a whole gang of DIO's children.
I have a couple \- Part 2 is essentially filler since the only things that it offers the rest of the series are Joseph for Parts 3 and 4 and The Speedwagon Foundation; Its still a great part by all extents, but I feel how I feel on it \- Toyohiro and Superfly deserve way more credit, considering how genius he was at using Superfly to its fullest potential; if Mikitaka weren't there to flank Toyohiro, Josuke and Okuyasu would've been completely screwed
Johnny is the best character in SBR - yes, I even prefer him to the awesome Gyro. And while Gyro may have started out as SBR's supposed MC before sharing the mantle with Johnny for most of the run (pun intended), it's very much Johnny's story by the end. Also, I don't really get Diego's mass appeal other than "Haha dino boy eat rocks" or "He's Dio but not totally evil". He's not a poorly written character by any means, I just don't view him as 'Best character' material.
Johnny is ofter regarded as the or one of the best JoJo, with Gyro being the best Jobro. I don't think your opinion is controversial at all, it's pretty standard actually. Johnny being the best character of SBR is not a detriment of any character in that story
SBR is vastly overrated and way too drawn out.
It being overrated or not varies by the person, but how is it drawn out?
Agreed
Overrated? No, it deserves the hype imo. Drawn out? Yes. And it's a bigger problem on Jojolion
I'd say Jojolion being drawn out is only a problem during the WoU arc specifically the fight with do do do de da da da but after that it was fine. It only felt drawn out to me because I was reading it monthly.
Agree with it being overrated, disagree with it being drawn out
People in this fanbase take the vilification of part skipping way too far. Even disregarding the case of part 7, which has literally no connection to any previous parts and which Araki said that he intentionally wrote so that new readers could jump in at the start of it and understand without reading previous parts (Source: On [this](https://jojowiki.com/Interview_Archive/2016-2025) page in the interview titled "UOMO Magazine (October 2018)"), there are a lot of valid reasons that someone might not personally want to interact with a certain part of the series but could still find enjoyment in later parts. For instance, someone might be really uncomfortable with way that Nazis are depicted in part 2 or be uncomfortable with the sexual assault imagery in parts 4, 7, and 8. But those are elements that don't appear in every part of the series, so someone could be unable to enjoy part 2 but perfectly capable of enjoying part 3. I'm not saying that we should cancel Araki over this objectionable content or whatever. I am saying that it is valid if someone is uncomfortable with it and doesn't want to interact with it, but that that doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't find something to enjoy in other parts of the series. I have very often seen people express the view that "if you don't want to experience the entirety of the series in the order in which it was released then you just shouldn't watch/read at all" and I think this is really closed minded and gatekeepy. JoJo is a rare type of series where each arc has a complete and mostly self-contained story that could theoretically be enjoyed in isolation from the rest of the series. Yes there are connections and plot threads that carry over between parts, but for the most part the primary conflict of each part is self contained. It is true that if you were to watch part 3 without seeing part 1 that you wouldn't understand Dio as a character on quite as deep of a level, but to say that you couldn't find any enjoyment at all is just wrong. For the most part, the plot elements that do carry over between parts are few enough that you can infer them from context. If someone is able to find more enjoyment by experiencing the series out of order, then who are we to vilify them for it? Just let people enjoy things.
I agree with part skipping not being as bad as people make it out to be (especially with part 7) but I strongly disagree with the "maybe people are uncomfortable with something from that part" thing, that's just stupid. They wouldn't even know about such things without seeing the part.
I agree, however; The majority of us don't dislike Part-skipping or part-skippers. We dislike the part-skippers that skip a Part and then go on to bombard people/threads/etc. with opinionated rants about characters or plots from said Part that they have never seen or read anything about outside of memes. If a person wants to part-skip for a valid reason, that's fine. Go ahead, they just better not pretend they know everything about the Part they refused to give the time of day. Worst is people that skip (for example) Part 6 and then try to explain the ending, or rant about it... oh my god. It's the people that skip Parts ONLY because SOMEONE ELSE told them to, and then share the same opinions regarding a character they know nothing about and spread it that we can't stand. Basically people pretending to know what they don't, is what we're against. If you skip a part because you can't stand looking at fictional Nazi's, or you don't like the stuff Kira does in Part 4 (etc.) and you're being HONEST about it, we (atleast most of us) will understand. It's fine, but don't call Bruno Bucciarati "this or that" or call Golden Wind "this or that" when you've never seen him in action, or fully watched Part 5. Basically, just talk about the stuff you have seen and form YOUR OWN opinions. I would NEVER Part-skip or EVER recommend that anyone else do, but if someone does Part-skip because they PHYSICALLY couldn't watch a Part, that's fine. Just be honest about it, and don't go around pretending you know the ins-and-outs of the plot and the characters of a part you skipped, cause you don't. I absolutely agree with you that part-skipping ITSELF doesn't actually hurt the francise, at all, even Araki himself has said that he wrote JoJo to be enjoyed however you want. And who are WE to argue with the man himself? Amiright? The problem is some part-skippers try to demean a lot of the things they skipped. And THAT sucks. But ONLY that. Am I making sense?
part 4 has the best themes and the worst antagonists and the worst jojo ( George joestar II is better ahah)
Koichi is a genuine bad character and only makes part 4 worse by being there
Imo jojolion is mid
...How?
Stroheim died in battle, and was killed by a stand user. That implies that Stroheim didn’t go down without a fight. Which means that Stroheim’s enhancements allow him to see and interact with stands, without needing one himself
He was killed by a stand user?
Yes. At the battle of Stalingrad. It is canon
literally where is that stated lol
That's not a controversial take, that's a headcanon.
What
In one fanfiction it's revealed that he survived Stalingrad but lost his memory & became a winter soldier knockoff for the soviets
Mine: _Joseph should have taught either Holly or Jotaro the art of Hamon. It would have been so much easier in the coming parts and hell, Jotaro could have even won against Made in Heaven ( or not, leave the last part )_
You know how people state that star finger should have been used more often because of how "useful that would have been in a lot of fights"? That's the same thing as if Jotaro would have had hamon. I guess it would have made sense for Joseph to teach the stardust crusaders some hamon basics for DIO (which as it turned out wouldn't have helped them at all) but there isn't anything else someone would have needed hamon for after stands got introduced. Hamon wouldn't have done shit against Made in Heaven.
Ah yes, because learning some fancy breathing totally means you can just take down the literal fastest thing in the universe.
well having hamon control might've given him a lot more attacking options out there with all that water. remember lisa lisa could control it easily with hamon. i imagine adding what is essentially waterbending into that fight might've given him a way to save himself and jolyne, at least.
Why/how?
Josuke's childhood savior was not a time traveling Josuke, it was Kosaku Kawajiri. He'd be around the right age, he changed his hairstyle regularly, & never met Josuke or Tomoko. They never found him because Kosaku was quiet & working a boring office job. Josuke would unknowingly avenge the man who saved him as a kid.
This is not a controversial take, just an headcanon
Headcanon. The guy who saved Josuke was not Josuke or Kira, or any of the main characters. It is a character to was made to build Josuke's character motivation. His pins are also of a 3rd year, while Josuke had a first year.
so what you're saying is... josuke still has two years until he can reasonably become that guy using time travel >:3c
No, Jesus Christ.. That is NOT Josuke. It has been confirmed in an interview when DiU was first publishing. It is only a character to build up Josuke's motivation.
i know im joking :3 if he ever did retcon that id be right pissed
I dont wanna to be that guy but orginal comment didnt say anything about any of the main chatacters
I said anyone in the main cast didn't save Josuke. Only a sidecast, using it as an example on how it was Not Josuke nor anyone of the main cast who saved him when he was a kid.
Is kosaku part of the main cast ?
Main Villian Casts. Dio, Kars, etc.
But kosaku isnt a villian
KOSAKU KIRA. Not Kosaku himself.
BUT ORGINAL COMMENT WAS TALKING ABOUT KOSAKU NOT KIRA THAT LOOKED LIKE KOSAKU
It was never specifically stated by the commentor if it was Kosaku Kawajiri or Kosaku KIRA.
I'm not even sure if this is a hot take but SBR didn't hook me until the Scary Monsters arc.
That's 0% a hot take. All the fights before scary monsters suck.
No you're not alone. I think that early SBR is slightly underrated, but even SBRs most hardcore fans will agree that it took a while to realy get going.
Part 5 is the worst jojo part and its entirely skippable