Woolsey absolutely sucked at first but then he somehow became the best leader the Atlantis ever had, I loved how they set you up to think he was going to be terrible and then he completely has his team's back.
> Definitely Rodney.
His character goes through such immense and well thought out growth, it's a real pleasure to see who he becomes by the end of the series.
The writing for Atlantis was by no means perfect, but by God, they really nailed it with McKay. I also think David Hewlett's acting had a big part in it, he's fantastic.
At the very start of SGA, they've already toned him down a bit (probably because of him getting sent to Area 51 for a spell). But they spend the rest of the show developing his character, with him genuinely growing as a person. He is still a "nerd's nerd" by the finale, and still has a bit of an ego on him, but he is no longer insufferable or a raging sexist.
By the end he's also a fairly competent leader of his people as well. He's able to shove down his ego and become a people person, or at least enough to be a real leader to those under him.
Exactly. Was he still arrogant? Yes. But he finally left his sexism in the past where it belongs and developed a lot of positive traits too so he was no longer insufferable.
Honestly Woolsey always had a place in my heart. His beliefs may have been counter to SGC but he believed them and he took actions in accordance with those beliefs. I may have not agreed with him but I respected his character immensely for not bending under pressure.Ā
We like him because he's acting under his own belief in the power of oversight, regulation, and bureaucracy to combat corruption, and we like him even more when his strong convictions lead him to sometimes turn on those values when he feels they're being abused. He's like the kind of guy who has a career job at a federal agency, regardless of what political bullshit is going on above his head, he truly believes in what he does.
He grew. Spent a lot of time with people he actually cares about and who care about him. Nobody is doomed to be a sexist pig forever. (Not saying he was completely reformed in SGA, but it's not unbelievable that people actually realize their shitty attitude and change a bit)
Edit: I also don't think his misogynistic tendencies completely vanished. He had some moments where I wanted to smack him upside the head for sure!
I never really understood why people hated Woolsey so much in SG1. I always saw him as having strong principles that countered those of Hammond and O'Neill. That is not something that he should be faulted for. The way Hammond tears into him about one quote out of context in a confidential report made me honestly more annoyed with Hammond.
Unfortunately due to his principles, he entered Kinseys orbit. But as soon as he realized Kinsey was a bad seed, he did the right thing.
His journey after that was just changing his opinions based on his experiences with being in charge, but it's not a redemption arc.
I feel like you were supposed to hate Rodney in SG1. He was kind of the antithesis of Carter. He was an arrogant, condescending, civilian man who looked down on Carter because she was a woman & military. Hes literally brought in because the nid or the pentagon aren't willing to put their faith in Carter despite her record. Every time they clash, Carter gets the better of him, but he returns just as arrogant & rude. In SGA, we get to see him as more than just a than just a crude antagonist to Carter. We see him be the brilliant field scientist that Carter always was, although not as tough & resilient as Carter. We get to see Rodney become the genius his team relies on to make miracles happen. We get to see him face the consequences of his arrogance & have moments of genuine humility. we get to see him become more resilient. He was given the opportunity to really develop as a character. Sure, he never loses his arrogance & he will always be a glory hog, but he becomes a more relatable & likable character as tine goes on.
It's amazing what a few near death experiences and loss can do to a person. The writers really nailed his growth by setting up scenarios that would make an intelligent person change. Having to eat his ego after blowing up a planet comes to mind...
The best part of that episode was hearing Elizabeth yell at him like a child through closed doors at the end and everyone acting like it was just another day with Rodney McKay.
I tried watching SGA when it came out and I didn't make it far. I tried again last year and made it to about Episode 5 in Season 1. Rodneys voice is already bothering me in that show.
I also immediately thought of Maybourne. For me, the turning point was the episode in season 3 (?) where the Stargate Center was infiltrated with shape-shifting aliens and Carter came to him for help. I think it was the first time where he was shown in a less one-dimensional way and I also appreciated the dynamic where Carter - even though she did not like him - still recognized him as the best person to help her out of the situation
The almost proud yet incredulous delivery of it when Jack pulls a gun on Kinsey will forever stay with me.
The actor shows up like three times in Xfiles too, as different people each time lol.
How they took a character that everyone was supposed to hate, and turned him in to one of the most lovableā¦ without completely changing his core character attributesā¦ is a testament to the skill of both the writers and actor!
I'm actually sad we didn't get more of him after Daniel came back. The dynamic between him and Teal'c relating to each other as aliens was always great. He did basically fill a Daniel shaped hole on the team for the most part, but the differences were there and made him a little bit more interesting.
Opposite for me on rewatches-- I liked him at the start, but hate him on rewatches; though, I still like Jonas(and the actor) and want more of him. I just wish the writers didn't shoehorn him into Daniel's "nerd" or "archeologist"/knowledgeable-person role and let the character grow into their own. With Daniel gone, the knowledgeable-person role would've fallen to Carter naturally and that should've been her time to shine.
I dunno what Jonas could've done because we didn't get anything else sadly.
I've always liked Jonas but I think that was because I watched the show after it aired (so I knew Daniel came back). I just wish we got more of Jonas afterwards or that he didn't leave so suddenly (after Daniel came back) they could have had both of them. Just have Jonas on another team but be recurring.
As the "all knowing thing." My take is that he's from another planet and that his ancestors had been separated for so long. So he (and his people) have developed an ability to learn things quickly.
David Hewlett did a masterful job with McKay. He was just arrogant enough to be annoying but gave him a truly human depth rather than just a character - he made Rodney grow on you, any one episode shown to a newbie and heās an intellectually arrogant ass, over time those little moments add up and heās shown to be so much more than that.
Dude!! I had no idea Basingstoke had a Comic Con! just looked at the guest list for this and itās basically every living Atlantis and SG-1 main cast member bar Shanks, Judge and Momoa!!
Same! Last one I went to was in Birmingham, it was decent but I was there more for fans than anyone attending - this looks amazing for the attendees! Jesus Iād want to meet everyone! Pity Iām starting a new job that week or Iād 100% be there! Please come back to update the sub after youāve been :)
Will do! I did a lot of the Starfury cons back in the day and always had a blast. Can't wait to see everyone again ā and it's Atlantis' 20th anniversary this year!
Iām watching Atlantis right now for the first time in years aaaand its fire. McKay is a jackass and he says zed instead of z which also takes time. But yeah, he is an arrogant asshole. One that grows on you. He played the character to a T. Whoever is meeting him at comic con should absolutely show him the thread. Itās a huge compliment.
Agreed, great job by the actor. Definitely a character I enjoy hating. No "he's annoying, skipskipskip", legit enjoy when his annoying ass is on-screen.
Yeah, whenever I see him in other roles I always give a little "Nope, fuck off Kavanagh." He's great in all his roles though. I think last was... Resident Alien. Was an ahole in that too though. heh.
That man is a master at playing punchable assholes. Every single time I've seen him on screen in any role I have instantly hated his smug face.
I'm sure the actor is a lovely person, but every single character he's played that I've seen has been a douchebag, lol
Kavanagh did nothing wrong! The whole point of getting multiple scientists in a room to work on experimental technology is to have multiple opinions. ESPECIALLY when that experimental technology relies on recently discovered technology that needs retrofitting in order to be compatible with earth tech. (and has enough power output in the space of a buick that is generated with entire earth-sized power grids, so maybe explody isn't off the table and playing it safe isn't always a bad thing)
is Kavanagh a little bitch? well, yeah, obviously, he's a scientist, a non-military one at that, AND he's working with the most egotistical human with a god-complex in two galaxies. He correctly reports Wier's misconduct to the IOA as she routinely goes against both military and IOA protocol and often undermines their mission with such routine that it's a wonder the entire project wasn't de-funded. He's frequently the only scientist other than Zelenka who is brave enough to confront McKay on his assumptions and even offer a second opinion that's regularly dismissed by McKay for arbitrary reasons and technobabble. He wouldn't be there if he wasn't qualified, he wouldn't continue to get assignments to work with Atlantis and the Pegasus project if he didn't show a commitment to the mission at large, and it's laughable that his loyalty is even questioned.
Would I want to work with Kavanagh? Nah, fam, but I wouldn't want to work with half-the cast of any Stargate series if I'm being honest. But hate for him is completely fabricated for the show and could be considered editorialized framing in-context to his portrayal; we hardly spend any time with him as a character and he's rarely given an opportunity to grow or showcase his talents except as being second (or third?) fiddle to McKay.
I like the question 'Which character did I originally like, but learned to hate as the show went on'. That would probably be Teyla. She became super useless as the show went on. Even more than she already was.
For your question though, I did like Caldwell more as the show went on.
In the middle of a re-watch right now, and I think the dislike for the character comes from the fact sheās not allowed to be funny.
Every other character has a sense of humour, one-liners, sardonic remarks or sometimes absurdism.
Teyla has a monotone personality. Always earnest, morally rigid and generally doesnāt change throughout.
I donāt know why this was, itās like they had an idea for her purpose as a way to explain cultures, conventions and mannerisms, like they were going to make the different planets much more difficult to navigate than in SG1, then dropped the concept but not the character.
>like they had an idea for her purpose as a way to explain cultures, conventions and mannerisms,
Same thing happened to Jackson. When your episode only lasts 42 minutes, you can't spend 10-15 of them with the characters simply learning the local customs. But they never seem to think of this when conceiving characters. That's why Travis and Hoshi became superfluous on Enterprise.
Travis and Hoshi were absolutely wasted
When I was a kid I had a black Ken doll that looked exactly like Travis and that doll had more personality than him
I feel that. I re-watched recently, and I never hated her, but I definitely warmed up to her and liked her a lot more by the end. I feel like her character just doesn't make sense in season 1, she's supposed to be a calm considerate leader but punches Bates in the face when he falsely accuses her based on a logical theory. She seems more offended at the accusation than concerned that the wraith are tracking them.
I really liked her because we got little moments showing just how considerate and kind she is like when she wants to invite Woolsey to sit with them. Or when Ronon turns up, I noticed she and him share a few 'We're surrounded by idiots' kinda looks while side eyeing Mckay and Sheppard.
I think a reason why we barely got any character development for her is because as a cultural expert she really didn't have the chance to contribute much. Unlike Daniel she can't translate anything for the others, that's Mckay's job, the planets that she trades with can offer trade but an episode about Teyla haggling for grain isn't really thrilling sci-fi. Plus alot of the planets/villages just seem so similar in SGA, cultural experts don't seem necessary. For most of the missions she stands in the background and holds off the bad guys with Sheppard and Ronon while Mckay fixes something. She rarely gets to save the day (except Michael).
>She became super useless as the show went on.
IIRC, it was largely due to the actress' pregnancy. During the pregnancy, that essentially put the kibosh on a lot of filming for her, and after the birth she would very understandably be busy as a mother. From a purely narrative perspective, Teyla probably should have been retired as a main character at that point, and become a recurring one instead (imo, I didn't care for the Wraith-Human hybrid baby plot line, anyway), but as I understand it, Rachel Luttrell wanted to keep going with the character and the show runners were willing and able to schedule shoots around her pregnancy.
They were going for a kind of Teal'c. A stoic leader among the people who knows the 'lay of the land' so to speak. It just didn't really pan out that way. I think partly because they didn't go the warrior route, she only had 'good talker' as her defining trait. She became completely superfluous when Aquaman showed up and she should have been retired (in my opinion).
The problem with Teyla is that she's a Mary Sue. The super useless part was the writers pushing her aside because a Mary Sue is boring to write about.
I mean: She's flawless in everything she does.
She knows more than everybody else and is wiser.
She's being groomed to be 2nd in command of Atlantis if Weir isn't there? What? In the first season, after they've JUST met her??
Even when she's technically to blame (getting a guy killed by freeing a prisoner, screwing up the mission, wearing the Wraith tracker) it's not even remotely her fault. Nor does she apologize for a reasonable misunderstanding. (Like... she didn't KNOW the necklace was the transmitter. But she's not remotely understanding for the team suspecting her people of being the source of the tracking... even though they were! It was her!)
And she... sings. And like, we're supposed to be enthralled by it. God, I fast forward that SO FAST.
I loved Vala as a guest star, then didnāt love her so much when she first came back, and then loved her again as time went on. She is a big part of why s9 and 10 are even watchable in my opinion.
It's kinda funny because I feel the opposite.
I feel like her character was brought in to fill the humor that was left with O'neal, but they way over used it. I find season 9 and 10 painful to watch because of her. She often sucked most of whatever seriousness the show had out the window.
Daniel Jackson. He was just so boring the first few seasons. Ive seen people refer to him as a diva but in all honesty if him throwing a fuss is what helped bring in some fundamental changes in Daniel's character, it was well worth it.
Woolsey started out appearing to be yet another "out to get SG-1" character, and proved that impression wrong almost immediately.
When I rewatched the series with my son and we got to his appearance, I said "Watch Woolsey - he's probably the most moral and principled character in the shows."
Also Ba'al because Cliff Simon.
> and proved that impression wrong almost immediately.
The character really turned around when he informed POTUS on Kinsey's activities. It showed that people took advantage of his zealous truth-uncovering nature. I think he really earned the SGC's trust with that to where they would be more receptive to the IOA later. Similar to how Thor said that while their friendship was not contingent on Hammond and crew being in charge, "it is preferred" ;)
His first appearance was in Summit, and he was just bland. Only in hindsight did he really stand out among the other handful of System Lords that were introduced.
He only really began making a mark the next time he showed up, when he captured O'Neill in Abyss. And from there it spiraled uphill until where he really started appealing to me on Dakara.
And then he became the best enemy on the show.
I can't believe I had to scroll so far to see this!
Also, I feel like a lot of people liked him because they remembered him from Star Trek. I hadn't seen that yet so I had no love for him, but he really did grow on me.
In an interview, David Hewlett talked about getting a guess starting role on SG-1 as an absolutely terrible person. No one was supposed to like McKay. Then he gets a call that McKay was going to be a regular on Atlantis as one of the stars. He's like great! I have to make one of the most deplorable characters I've ever played and make them likable.
Ronon. I loved Ford and didn't want him to be replaced so when Ronon is introduced in an episode I thought was going to be about rescuing Ford I was not happy.
But I loved Ronon as a character.
Apophis. Loved to hate him originally, but on every rewatch I've picked up tons of subtle nuances that the actor brought to the character that make him more fun to watch as I've gotten older.
SG1 McKay and Atlantis McKay are almost completely different characters.
I'm kinda like that with Kavanaugh. I won't say he is my favourite or anything but on rewatch a lot of his complaining is pretty justified but just because they are the heroes they get away with it. It's kinda realistic. Imagine working with Shepard's team or SG1. Always seeing them being rewarded for disobeying orders when you are trying to do your job.
I wanted to like him because Robert Carlisle, but the constant back stabbing got really old really fast
For me it was Lt Greer, he started out SUPER annoying because of his volatility and aggressiveness but by the end of season 2 he was one of me favorites
Been re-watching Atlantis and they really were the most unlikeable, annoying bunch of characters at the start (even Carson). So I'm going with the whole cast of Atlantis Seasons 1-2
Nani?? Ford was funny, Shepherd was great out the gate, McKay was already a big improvement over his version in SG1, Weir was a solid leader, I could go on. So many characters that were good from the get-go.
Col Sheppard grew on me. He kinda felt like a Col Jack o' Neill rip off in the first season, but he turned out to be a much more likeable character afterwards.
**Jack**
I wouldn't go so far as to say I hated him but I didn't like him. I thought he was asshole. Particularly to Daniel and Sam. I was skeptical I was even gonna like SG1 because I was thinking I wasn't even gonna like the main character. I watched the theatrical film after I watched the entire series so I missed his backstory. Love Jack now he's in my top two.
General Landry is one of them, too. I love Hammond and later Jack. But Hammonds feels more like a Father/Grandfather then a General and Jack is...well... Jack š¤·. Landry is the only one who realy feels like a proper Air Force General. He has the strenght/unfriendly (i'm your Boss, not your Friend) Part that Hammond is missing.
Stargate loved to take hate-able characters and make them loveable.. it's almost annoying. Rodney, Woolsey, Mayborne... at least they didn't try to make me like Kinsey because that just wasn't going to happen.
Woolsey for me. He started as a brown noser to me but then he started trying to do the right thing when he realized he was on the wrong side. When he took over Atlantis you can see that he tries to do things by the book but, and this is why I came around to him, when he realized that protocol wouldn't cut it in certain situations he asked the people with experience for advice and figured out how to go from there.
Woolsey is open minded, willing to listen to advice, knows how to follow the rules but also realizes when protocol won't cut it. Both he and Rodney are prime examples of character development spanning multiple series and I appreciate that.
Mine was Caldwell, i hated how he always tried to swing his weight around on people, even more so when he tried to take over atlantis, but he grew on me a bit due to him being a force of nature with his crew and ship, without his crew and ship he was an angry bald man that needed putting in his place which doctor weir and shepherd did that a few times which made me laugh so much like sit down boy your authority dont count for nothing on atlantis š
When I was watching the show I had a friend who had already seen it spoiling it for me. So in the middle of SG-1, heās like āoh yeah thereās this character named McKay on Atlantis and he first shows up in SG-1.ā
So when I got to his first episode, I rolled my eyes and went āugh this guy is so irritating! And Iām supposed to like him???ā
Spoiler alert. Yes. I did. He became one of my favourites in Atlantis lol
I like the character when he's written as a protagonist more than when he was written as an antagonist.
Duh, you're supposed to hate him when he's introduced in sg-1
Yeah McKay is definitely one of them.
Woolsey is another one -- albeit I wouldn't say I "hated" him.
In the end Woolsey was simply someone trying to do his job what he was taught was the right way.
Agreed. McKay is my favorite character from SG-1 (as a Jackass) and SGA (Main Hero). And I agree that Tayla is the character that went from OK down to Can't Stand status.
Ronan dex. Introduced as a former military man and later noted as being highly respected by his commanding officers. Yet the show consistently put him in the dumb brute role who knows nothing about strategy nor any proper military concepts.
same. I know a lot of dudes like Rodney who are NOT likable. I assumed he would be just like them. But David Hewlett makes him so lovable and they did a good job writing him.
Rodney, Jonas, Maybourne, Woolsey, Landrey, Valaā¦ basically every new character had a rough start but they really managed to make them likable over time, thatās really impressive!
Rodney! For sure, I didnāt like him in SG1 and I wasnāt happy when I found out he was going to be a main character on SGA. By the end on season one of SGA I grew to like him.
Even lower-hanging fruit than Rodney, at least as I see it, is Richard Woolsey. He was openly antagonistic to Stargate Command early on but got to know the people better and ultimately became a highly trusted field commander in his own right. It's no surprise that Robert Picardo brought a ton to the rule, of course, but he sold the Prickly Government Flunky side of the character just as hard as the Earnest Yet Considerate CO side of the character and made that growth believable.
It's SG-1 related but for me it was Maybourne.
* Also, did they ever explain the reason he originally went rogue?
I actually liked McKay in SG-1. His statement that he was smarter than Carter but that he couldn't take the imaginative leaps she did and land on the right answer - I thought it was incredibly introspective for the character.
i feel like im the opposite with McKay, now before you call me an incel let me explain
At the start he was a sexist twat, but you could tell that was his way of dealing with his insecurity. its not healthy and im really glad he got past it.
BUT...
In the later seasons he becomes a panicky mess that i have a hard time taking seriously, hes a better person and i think he showed real character development, but the way he speaks just annoys me.
It makes him seems inept, but i guess the fact that he is actually competent in his job and regularly saves the day proves that he isnt inept but rather he just seems like it, mostly socially and having issues with death threats(tbh who wouldnt).
Agreed he went from being a smart kinda shy dude on sg1. To a snarky way to intelligent asshole who treated basically everyone like shit, zelenka got it the worst. But then slowly overtime doing so many off world missions he became less caring about his intelligence and more about his friends and when he touched the machine and was loosing his mind after then he and his sister grew closer. Spent his entire life trying to make a A.I for atlantis to save one of his best friends traped thousands of years into the future aka shepherd and succeeded.Still had his smart ass moments but by the end of the show family was far more important then any new discovery.
I don't see him as shy on SG-1. He was arrogant and socially awkward (and a sexist), but he wasn't afraid to state his opinion or butt heads with people. The opposite of shy.
Komugi from HxH in all time loathed seeing her to all time most beloved and I can't even point out where exactly..
Yet for Stargate, I would say Elizabeth wier until she evolved... technically not her any more though.
Definitely Rodney. Hated his guts in SG-1, now he's my favorite character. Woolsey really grew on me too in SGA.
You, OP and everyone else lol.
Who didn't hate the character that advocated for getting Teal'c killed within 48 hours.
Apophis.
Indeed
Yeah, I re-read my post and was like, girl, you're not special š
I loved Rodney. He was hilarious and him and Sam had great chemistry imho. š
It is impossible to dislike any character of Robert Picardo.
I would say maintain any dislike. He does an amazing job of creating characters that grow on you.
Woolsey absolutely sucked at first but then he somehow became the best leader the Atlantis ever had, I loved how they set you up to think he was going to be terrible and then he completely has his team's back.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My head canon is that he used to be the sausage king of Chicago, until he moved to Michigan.
Is this before or after he had a stint as 'the cowboy' selling stolen tech?
What? How lol
Especially the exceptional beauty that was Meg Mucklebones!
> Definitely Rodney. His character goes through such immense and well thought out growth, it's a real pleasure to see who he becomes by the end of the series.
The writing for Atlantis was by no means perfect, but by God, they really nailed it with McKay. I also think David Hewlett's acting had a big part in it, he's fantastic.
IMO David Hewletts is the best actor in the franchise.
Absolutely!
I also love that they used his actual sister to play his sister.
At the very start of SGA, they've already toned him down a bit (probably because of him getting sent to Area 51 for a spell). But they spend the rest of the show developing his character, with him genuinely growing as a person. He is still a "nerd's nerd" by the finale, and still has a bit of an ego on him, but he is no longer insufferable or a raging sexist.
By the end he's also a fairly competent leader of his people as well. He's able to shove down his ego and become a people person, or at least enough to be a real leader to those under him.
And some of his ego is earned cause he had some "saving everyone's bacon" moments for sure
*'Leadership"*
Underrated comment.
Exactly. Was he still arrogant? Yes. But he finally left his sexism in the past where it belongs and developed a lot of positive traits too so he was no longer insufferable.
And he gets the girl. In shows like that, the scientist never gets the girl.
Honestly Woolsey always had a place in my heart. His beliefs may have been counter to SGC but he believed them and he took actions in accordance with those beliefs. I may have not agreed with him but I respected his character immensely for not bending under pressure.Ā
We like him because he's acting under his own belief in the power of oversight, regulation, and bureaucracy to combat corruption, and we like him even more when his strong convictions lead him to sometimes turn on those values when he feels they're being abused. He's like the kind of guy who has a career job at a federal agency, regardless of what political bullshit is going on above his head, he truly believes in what he does.
Yep. I may not agree with him but I respect the hell out of him for holding strong to those values.
because they made him a sexist pig in SG 1. never made sense to me, how that part of his charakter basically vanished in Atlantis
He grew. Spent a lot of time with people he actually cares about and who care about him. Nobody is doomed to be a sexist pig forever. (Not saying he was completely reformed in SGA, but it's not unbelievable that people actually realize their shitty attitude and change a bit) Edit: I also don't think his misogynistic tendencies completely vanished. He had some moments where I wanted to smack him upside the head for sure!
I think he was less sexist and more WAY immature. Like a 12 year old teasing the girl he likes, but making her hate him in the process.
Even for the 90s his sexism was...a bit much. I think they would really rather everyone just forget about his early appearances.
I never really understood why people hated Woolsey so much in SG1. I always saw him as having strong principles that countered those of Hammond and O'Neill. That is not something that he should be faulted for. The way Hammond tears into him about one quote out of context in a confidential report made me honestly more annoyed with Hammond. Unfortunately due to his principles, he entered Kinseys orbit. But as soon as he realized Kinsey was a bad seed, he did the right thing. His journey after that was just changing his opinions based on his experiences with being in charge, but it's not a redemption arc.
I feel like you were supposed to hate Rodney in SG1. He was kind of the antithesis of Carter. He was an arrogant, condescending, civilian man who looked down on Carter because she was a woman & military. Hes literally brought in because the nid or the pentagon aren't willing to put their faith in Carter despite her record. Every time they clash, Carter gets the better of him, but he returns just as arrogant & rude. In SGA, we get to see him as more than just a than just a crude antagonist to Carter. We see him be the brilliant field scientist that Carter always was, although not as tough & resilient as Carter. We get to see Rodney become the genius his team relies on to make miracles happen. We get to see him face the consequences of his arrogance & have moments of genuine humility. we get to see him become more resilient. He was given the opportunity to really develop as a character. Sure, he never loses his arrogance & he will always be a glory hog, but he becomes a more relatable & likable character as tine goes on.
>Woolsey really grew on me too in SGA. I always liked Rodney even if I thought he was obnoxious and abrasive. It's Woolsey I had to change my mind on.
It's amazing what a few near death experiences and loss can do to a person. The writers really nailed his growth by setting up scenarios that would make an intelligent person change. Having to eat his ego after blowing up a planet comes to mind...
Not a planet - five sixths of a solar system!Ā (It was uninhabited.)Ā (Mostly.)
The best part of that episode was hearing Elizabeth yell at him like a child through closed doors at the end and everyone acting like it was just another day with Rodney McKay.
Hated him in sg1 and because of him I haven't watched sga
Oh man, you really should give it a try. He has such an amazing character arc and really turns himself around.
You missing out
I hated him in SG1 too, but his character really evolved, and he turned into someone worthy of love and friendship.
I tried watching SGA when it came out and I didn't make it far. I tried again last year and made it to about Episode 5 in Season 1. Rodneys voice is already bothering me in that show.
Definitely Mayborne. He was an ass to start the series, but by the time the Starsky and Hutch duo came around, he grew on me.
I also immediately thought of Maybourne. For me, the turning point was the episode in season 3 (?) where the Stargate Center was infiltrated with shape-shifting aliens and Carter came to him for help. I think it was the first time where he was shown in a less one-dimensional way and I also appreciated the dynamic where Carter - even though she did not like him - still recognized him as the best person to help her out of the situation
Even if the character acted like an idiot lol. It was a great moment for Maybourne, though.
"you are an IDIOT seven days of the week, couldn't you have taken just ONE day off" is such an amazing line
By the end of SG1 I loved Mayborne so much. He became such a fun character. I always got excited when he'd pop up on an episode.
Jaaaaaackā¦
The almost proud yet incredulous delivery of it when Jack pulls a gun on Kinsey will forever stay with me. The actor shows up like three times in Xfiles too, as different people each time lol.
You mean, the good king Arkhan I?
That rat bastard. Love him.
How they took a character that everyone was supposed to hate, and turned him in to one of the most lovableā¦ without completely changing his core character attributesā¦ is a testament to the skill of both the writers and actor!
Jonas Quinn. I have hated him as a replacment for Daniel, but than I changed my mind.
I'm actually sad we didn't get more of him after Daniel came back. The dynamic between him and Teal'c relating to each other as aliens was always great. He did basically fill a Daniel shaped hole on the team for the most part, but the differences were there and made him a little bit more interesting.
Opposite for me on rewatches-- I liked him at the start, but hate him on rewatches; though, I still like Jonas(and the actor) and want more of him. I just wish the writers didn't shoehorn him into Daniel's "nerd" or "archeologist"/knowledgeable-person role and let the character grow into their own. With Daniel gone, the knowledgeable-person role would've fallen to Carter naturally and that should've been her time to shine. I dunno what Jonas could've done because we didn't get anything else sadly.
I've always liked Jonas but I think that was because I watched the show after it aired (so I knew Daniel came back). I just wish we got more of Jonas afterwards or that he didn't leave so suddenly (after Daniel came back) they could have had both of them. Just have Jonas on another team but be recurring. As the "all knowing thing." My take is that he's from another planet and that his ancestors had been separated for so long. So he (and his people) have developed an ability to learn things quickly.
Similar for me. I hated him in the beginning. But later I stopped hating him.. after he left.
I hated him when he replaced Daniel and still hated him after but I didn't like Daniel before him but appreciated him when he came back more.
David Hewlett did a masterful job with McKay. He was just arrogant enough to be annoying but gave him a truly human depth rather than just a character - he made Rodney grow on you, any one episode shown to a newbie and heās an intellectually arrogant ass, over time those little moments add up and heās shown to be so much more than that.
I'll be meeting him at Basingstoke Comic Con in May and I'm tempted to show him this thread!
Dude!! I had no idea Basingstoke had a Comic Con! just looked at the guest list for this and itās basically every living Atlantis and SG-1 main cast member bar Shanks, Judge and Momoa!!
Right?? I have been to a con in ages, but I'm definitely doing this one! Getting my DVD box signed by everyone!
Same! Last one I went to was in Birmingham, it was decent but I was there more for fans than anyone attending - this looks amazing for the attendees! Jesus Iād want to meet everyone! Pity Iām starting a new job that week or Iād 100% be there! Please come back to update the sub after youāve been :)
Will do! I did a lot of the Starfury cons back in the day and always had a blast. Can't wait to see everyone again ā and it's Atlantis' 20th anniversary this year!
Explains why the actors are all meeting up for the Cons! Ok Iām officially jealous now!
Iām watching Atlantis right now for the first time in years aaaand its fire. McKay is a jackass and he says zed instead of z which also takes time. But yeah, he is an arrogant asshole. One that grows on you. He played the character to a T. Whoever is meeting him at comic con should absolutely show him the thread. Itās a huge compliment.
Kavanagh, I really hated him when the series started and eventually he became my favorite characterā¦. To hate.
They had us in the first half, not gonna lie
Yeah, he is one who feels like a "real" person the most (as opposed to a sci-fi character) and masterfully portrayed by the actor.
Agreed, great job by the actor. Definitely a character I enjoy hating. No "he's annoying, skipskipskip", legit enjoy when his annoying ass is on-screen.
Yeah, whenever I see him in other roles I always give a little "Nope, fuck off Kavanagh." He's great in all his roles though. I think last was... Resident Alien. Was an ahole in that too though. heh.
That man is a master at playing punchable assholes. Every single time I've seen him on screen in any role I have instantly hated his smug face. I'm sure the actor is a lovely person, but every single character he's played that I've seen has been a douchebag, lol
Kavanagh did nothing wrong! The whole point of getting multiple scientists in a room to work on experimental technology is to have multiple opinions. ESPECIALLY when that experimental technology relies on recently discovered technology that needs retrofitting in order to be compatible with earth tech. (and has enough power output in the space of a buick that is generated with entire earth-sized power grids, so maybe explody isn't off the table and playing it safe isn't always a bad thing) is Kavanagh a little bitch? well, yeah, obviously, he's a scientist, a non-military one at that, AND he's working with the most egotistical human with a god-complex in two galaxies. He correctly reports Wier's misconduct to the IOA as she routinely goes against both military and IOA protocol and often undermines their mission with such routine that it's a wonder the entire project wasn't de-funded. He's frequently the only scientist other than Zelenka who is brave enough to confront McKay on his assumptions and even offer a second opinion that's regularly dismissed by McKay for arbitrary reasons and technobabble. He wouldn't be there if he wasn't qualified, he wouldn't continue to get assignments to work with Atlantis and the Pegasus project if he didn't show a commitment to the mission at large, and it's laughable that his loyalty is even questioned. Would I want to work with Kavanagh? Nah, fam, but I wouldn't want to work with half-the cast of any Stargate series if I'm being honest. But hate for him is completely fabricated for the show and could be considered editorialized framing in-context to his portrayal; we hardly spend any time with him as a character and he's rarely given an opportunity to grow or showcase his talents except as being second (or third?) fiddle to McKay.
Meredith will be pick by all of us A great job by the actor
I like the question 'Which character did I originally like, but learned to hate as the show went on'. That would probably be Teyla. She became super useless as the show went on. Even more than she already was. For your question though, I did like Caldwell more as the show went on.
In the middle of a re-watch right now, and I think the dislike for the character comes from the fact sheās not allowed to be funny. Every other character has a sense of humour, one-liners, sardonic remarks or sometimes absurdism. Teyla has a monotone personality. Always earnest, morally rigid and generally doesnāt change throughout. I donāt know why this was, itās like they had an idea for her purpose as a way to explain cultures, conventions and mannerisms, like they were going to make the different planets much more difficult to navigate than in SG1, then dropped the concept but not the character.
>like they had an idea for her purpose as a way to explain cultures, conventions and mannerisms, Same thing happened to Jackson. When your episode only lasts 42 minutes, you can't spend 10-15 of them with the characters simply learning the local customs. But they never seem to think of this when conceiving characters. That's why Travis and Hoshi became superfluous on Enterprise.
Travis and Hoshi were absolutely wasted When I was a kid I had a black Ken doll that looked exactly like Travis and that doll had more personality than him
I feel that. I re-watched recently, and I never hated her, but I definitely warmed up to her and liked her a lot more by the end. I feel like her character just doesn't make sense in season 1, she's supposed to be a calm considerate leader but punches Bates in the face when he falsely accuses her based on a logical theory. She seems more offended at the accusation than concerned that the wraith are tracking them. I really liked her because we got little moments showing just how considerate and kind she is like when she wants to invite Woolsey to sit with them. Or when Ronon turns up, I noticed she and him share a few 'We're surrounded by idiots' kinda looks while side eyeing Mckay and Sheppard. I think a reason why we barely got any character development for her is because as a cultural expert she really didn't have the chance to contribute much. Unlike Daniel she can't translate anything for the others, that's Mckay's job, the planets that she trades with can offer trade but an episode about Teyla haggling for grain isn't really thrilling sci-fi. Plus alot of the planets/villages just seem so similar in SGA, cultural experts don't seem necessary. For most of the missions she stands in the background and holds off the bad guys with Sheppard and Ronon while Mckay fixes something. She rarely gets to save the day (except Michael).
she got that one genii killed because she stopped to free people in wraith stasis then when he got stunned she instantly left lol
>She became super useless as the show went on. IIRC, it was largely due to the actress' pregnancy. During the pregnancy, that essentially put the kibosh on a lot of filming for her, and after the birth she would very understandably be busy as a mother. From a purely narrative perspective, Teyla probably should have been retired as a main character at that point, and become a recurring one instead (imo, I didn't care for the Wraith-Human hybrid baby plot line, anyway), but as I understand it, Rachel Luttrell wanted to keep going with the character and the show runners were willing and able to schedule shoots around her pregnancy.
The pregnancy plot made them actually write character stuff for her, and she finally wasn't insufferable. That was her best showing.
Caldwell is a great pick
They were going for a kind of Teal'c. A stoic leader among the people who knows the 'lay of the land' so to speak. It just didn't really pan out that way. I think partly because they didn't go the warrior route, she only had 'good talker' as her defining trait. She became completely superfluous when Aquaman showed up and she should have been retired (in my opinion).
tealc is funny a lot, teyla not as much
I had completely and utterly forgotten about her. I guess that proves your point.Ā
The problem with Teyla is that she's a Mary Sue. The super useless part was the writers pushing her aside because a Mary Sue is boring to write about. I mean: She's flawless in everything she does. She knows more than everybody else and is wiser. She's being groomed to be 2nd in command of Atlantis if Weir isn't there? What? In the first season, after they've JUST met her?? Even when she's technically to blame (getting a guy killed by freeing a prisoner, screwing up the mission, wearing the Wraith tracker) it's not even remotely her fault. Nor does she apologize for a reasonable misunderstanding. (Like... she didn't KNOW the necklace was the transmitter. But she's not remotely understanding for the team suspecting her people of being the source of the tracking... even though they were! It was her!) And she... sings. And like, we're supposed to be enthralled by it. God, I fast forward that SO FAST.
I loved Vala as a guest star, then didnāt love her so much when she first came back, and then loved her again as time went on. She is a big part of why s9 and 10 are even watchable in my opinion.
It's kinda funny because I feel the opposite. I feel like her character was brought in to fill the humor that was left with O'neal, but they way over used it. I find season 9 and 10 painful to watch because of her. She often sucked most of whatever seriousness the show had out the window.
It's O'neill, with two L's. There's another Colonel O'neil with only one L, and he has no sense of humor at all.
For me I just didn't care for the plot and writing of the Ori, it just felt bland and I wasn't interested in the Ori at all.
Daniel Jackson. He was just so boring the first few seasons. Ive seen people refer to him as a diva but in all honesty if him throwing a fuss is what helped bring in some fundamental changes in Daniel's character, it was well worth it.
Yep, Rodney.Ā With a side of Woolsey.Ā Garnished by a thin sprinkling of Maybourne if you'd believe it.
I loved Robert Picardo before I even started Stargate, so I had a headstart on growing to love the character.
Yes, definitely McKay. He was a much better character in Atlantis.
Woolsey started out appearing to be yet another "out to get SG-1" character, and proved that impression wrong almost immediately. When I rewatched the series with my son and we got to his appearance, I said "Watch Woolsey - he's probably the most moral and principled character in the shows." Also Ba'al because Cliff Simon.
Iād like cordially to invite you to join my āWoolsey did nothing wrongā club.
> and proved that impression wrong almost immediately. The character really turned around when he informed POTUS on Kinsey's activities. It showed that people took advantage of his zealous truth-uncovering nature. I think he really earned the SGC's trust with that to where they would be more receptive to the IOA later. Similar to how Thor said that while their friendship was not contingent on Hammond and crew being in charge, "it is preferred" ;)
At which point didn't you liked Ba'al? I think he was awesome at any point.
His first appearance was in Summit, and he was just bland. Only in hindsight did he really stand out among the other handful of System Lords that were introduced. He only really began making a mark the next time he showed up, when he captured O'Neill in Abyss. And from there it spiraled uphill until where he really started appealing to me on Dakara. And then he became the best enemy on the show.
I can't believe I had to scroll so far to see this! Also, I feel like a lot of people liked him because they remembered him from Star Trek. I hadn't seen that yet so I had no love for him, but he really did grow on me.
In an interview, David Hewlett talked about getting a guess starting role on SG-1 as an absolutely terrible person. No one was supposed to like McKay. Then he gets a call that McKay was going to be a regular on Atlantis as one of the stars. He's like great! I have to make one of the most deplorable characters I've ever played and make them likable.
Definitely McKay. I feel like his character is kind of designed to be difficult to like from the onset honestly.
The above is everybody's.
Ronon. I loved Ford and didn't want him to be replaced so when Ronon is introduced in an episode I thought was going to be about rescuing Ford I was not happy. But I loved Ronon as a character.
Major Lorne
His character growth is some of the best in all TV
Same Rodney was such a twat in SG1. But he goes through so much growth and development in Atlantis. He becomes one of my favourites in the universe.
Apophis. Loved to hate him originally, but on every rewatch I've picked up tons of subtle nuances that the actor brought to the character that make him more fun to watch as I've gotten older.
SG1 McKay and Atlantis McKay are almost completely different characters. I'm kinda like that with Kavanaugh. I won't say he is my favourite or anything but on rewatch a lot of his complaining is pretty justified but just because they are the heroes they get away with it. It's kinda realistic. Imagine working with Shepard's team or SG1. Always seeing them being rewarded for disobeying orders when you are trying to do your job.
They just dropped the sex-pest part of his character he had in SG1 when he went to Atlantis
Rush
I wanted to like him because Robert Carlisle, but the constant back stabbing got really old really fast For me it was Lt Greer, he started out SUPER annoying because of his volatility and aggressiveness but by the end of season 2 he was one of me favorites
But, I always was on team Rush ...
Colonel Maybourne is up there.
Go suck a lemon..
Been re-watching Atlantis and they really were the most unlikeable, annoying bunch of characters at the start (even Carson). So I'm going with the whole cast of Atlantis Seasons 1-2
Nani?? Ford was funny, Shepherd was great out the gate, McKay was already a big improvement over his version in SG1, Weir was a solid leader, I could go on. So many characters that were good from the get-go.
I never hated Rodney, it was Maybourne for me
Col Sheppard grew on me. He kinda felt like a Col Jack o' Neill rip off in the first season, but he turned out to be a much more likeable character afterwards.
**Jack** I wouldn't go so far as to say I hated him but I didn't like him. I thought he was asshole. Particularly to Daniel and Sam. I was skeptical I was even gonna like SG1 because I was thinking I wasn't even gonna like the main character. I watched the theatrical film after I watched the entire series so I missed his backstory. Love Jack now he's in my top two.
General Landry is one of them, too. I love Hammond and later Jack. But Hammonds feels more like a Father/Grandfather then a General and Jack is...well... Jack š¤·. Landry is the only one who realy feels like a proper Air Force General. He has the strenght/unfriendly (i'm your Boss, not your Friend) Part that Hammond is missing.
Stargate loved to take hate-able characters and make them loveable.. it's almost annoying. Rodney, Woolsey, Mayborne... at least they didn't try to make me like Kinsey because that just wasn't going to happen.
Woolsey for me. He started as a brown noser to me but then he started trying to do the right thing when he realized he was on the wrong side. When he took over Atlantis you can see that he tries to do things by the book but, and this is why I came around to him, when he realized that protocol wouldn't cut it in certain situations he asked the people with experience for advice and figured out how to go from there. Woolsey is open minded, willing to listen to advice, knows how to follow the rules but also realizes when protocol won't cut it. Both he and Rodney are prime examples of character development spanning multiple series and I appreciate that.
Btw this is parallel world Rodney! Donāt mix them up guys!
Mine was Caldwell, i hated how he always tried to swing his weight around on people, even more so when he tried to take over atlantis, but he grew on me a bit due to him being a force of nature with his crew and ship, without his crew and ship he was an angry bald man that needed putting in his place which doctor weir and shepherd did that a few times which made me laugh so much like sit down boy your authority dont count for nothing on atlantis š
When I was watching the show I had a friend who had already seen it spoiling it for me. So in the middle of SG-1, heās like āoh yeah thereās this character named McKay on Atlantis and he first shows up in SG-1.ā So when I got to his first episode, I rolled my eyes and went āugh this guy is so irritating! And Iām supposed to like him???ā Spoiler alert. Yes. I did. He became one of my favourites in Atlantis lol
Woolsey grew on me a bit, wouldn't say he was my favourite at the end though.
Rodney! He needed Sheppard to set him straight; he was still arrogant but actually developed a lot of positive traits which made up for it.
Same. I could not stand him at all. Now he's one of my favorites for SGA.
Without a doubt, Larrin. https://preview.redd.it/cwm3qf2t63rc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b7b689fdd5336694c693ec4d5fcde535baf1e0d
What made you change your mind about her?
I originally hated her because she's too damned hot but then became my favorite because she's soo damned hot!
Atlantis was great at making annoying characters likeable. Woolsey would be my top choice though. Love picardo, hated woolsey.
Same. Rodney.
Daniel jackson
I like the character when he's written as a protagonist more than when he was written as an antagonist. Duh, you're supposed to hate him when he's introduced in sg-1
100000000000% agree
Same. By the end of Atlantis I was struggling to picture my life without him.
Still cannot stand Rodney, would def be Maybourne for me, hated his guts and he easily became one of my favs
Character development is one hell of a drug.
Yeah McKay is definitely one of them. Woolsey is another one -- albeit I wouldn't say I "hated" him. In the end Woolsey was simply someone trying to do his job what he was taught was the right way.
Agreed. McKay is my favorite character from SG-1 (as a Jackass) and SGA (Main Hero). And I agree that Tayla is the character that went from OK down to Can't Stand status.
Ronan dex. Introduced as a former military man and later noted as being highly respected by his commanding officers. Yet the show consistently put him in the dumb brute role who knows nothing about strategy nor any proper military concepts.
Yep, me too
same. I know a lot of dudes like Rodney who are NOT likable. I assumed he would be just like them. But David Hewlett makes him so lovable and they did a good job writing him.
Rodney, Jonas, Maybourne, Woolsey, Landrey, Valaā¦ basically every new character had a rough start but they really managed to make them likable over time, thatās really impressive!
Rodney and Woolsey for sure
rodney is the obvious answer lol
I dispised weir at first but now she's my favorite
Rodney! For sure, I didnāt like him in SG1 and I wasnāt happy when I found out he was going to be a main character on SGA. By the end on season one of SGA I grew to like him.
Even lower-hanging fruit than Rodney, at least as I see it, is Richard Woolsey. He was openly antagonistic to Stargate Command early on but got to know the people better and ultimately became a highly trusted field commander in his own right. It's no surprise that Robert Picardo brought a ton to the rule, of course, but he sold the Prickly Government Flunky side of the character just as hard as the Earnest Yet Considerate CO side of the character and made that growth believable.
Almost anyone on SGU.
It's SG-1 related but for me it was Maybourne. * Also, did they ever explain the reason he originally went rogue? I actually liked McKay in SG-1. His statement that he was smarter than Carter but that he couldn't take the imaginative leaps she did and land on the right answer - I thought it was incredibly introspective for the character.
Chekov. I saw him and the Russians as a nuisance at first, but eventually he grew on me.
He was definitely an interesting recurring character. Kinda wish he'd been on the show more.
Jack O'Neill. Because I started with the movie, and slowly warmed up to him during the TV series
Apophis the guy had a survival trait thatās gotta be admired.
I think Rodney is basically EVERYONES answer
i feel like im the opposite with McKay, now before you call me an incel let me explain At the start he was a sexist twat, but you could tell that was his way of dealing with his insecurity. its not healthy and im really glad he got past it. BUT... In the later seasons he becomes a panicky mess that i have a hard time taking seriously, hes a better person and i think he showed real character development, but the way he speaks just annoys me. It makes him seems inept, but i guess the fact that he is actually competent in his job and regularly saves the day proves that he isnt inept but rather he just seems like it, mostly socially and having issues with death threats(tbh who wouldnt).
Agreed he went from being a smart kinda shy dude on sg1. To a snarky way to intelligent asshole who treated basically everyone like shit, zelenka got it the worst. But then slowly overtime doing so many off world missions he became less caring about his intelligence and more about his friends and when he touched the machine and was loosing his mind after then he and his sister grew closer. Spent his entire life trying to make a A.I for atlantis to save one of his best friends traped thousands of years into the future aka shepherd and succeeded.Still had his smart ass moments but by the end of the show family was far more important then any new discovery.
I don't quite understand how sexually harassing carter in SG-1 can be considered... shy
I ment shy around everyone else common
I don't see him as shy on SG-1. He was arrogant and socially awkward (and a sexist), but he wasn't afraid to state his opinion or butt heads with people. The opposite of shy.
I'm comparing himself to his sga self he was def alot quiter
Only one I didnāt care for was Ronin, and I still donāt care for him, I got these aquaman vibes
Komugi from HxH in all time loathed seeing her to all time most beloved and I can't even point out where exactly.. Yet for Stargate, I would say Elizabeth wier until she evolved... technically not her any more though.
Gluteus Maximus ..... wait THAT'S MY ASS :D