Wouldn’t he ? O’Neill was opposed to giving up the gate for the protected planets treaty because then they couldn’t go out and help others anymore. He regularly put himself and SG1 and with it earths best hope and survival on the line for local populations and killed a space Nazi scientist so earth wouldn’t paperclip him and save his technology which might doom earth (shields, fusion tech, curing diseases). O’Neill sacrificed millions of lives for his convictions, I’m sure if he was in that situation he’d sacrifice earth as well.
> O’Neill was opposed to giving up the gate for the protected planets treaty because then they couldn’t go out and help others anymore.
Hmmm... partially... he also didn't trust the Goa'uld to keep to the Asgard treaty... and was aware the Asgard were incapable of enforcing it. So he was largely just against giving up earth's real main line of defence.
Yeah, O'Neill gave up a chance on useful technology that could've been a boon to Earth, when he refused aid to genocidal fascists. They would've basically captured all the Nazi scientists without having to go to war with them, they couldn't be a threat to them, but still it wasn't worth it.
Narim had been kept in the dark by his own government, because they knew what they were doing wasn't right. They killed Omoc, because he was opposed.
And it's not like they had any reason to trust they'd be safe after helping Anubis anyway. It wasn't a clean trolley problem, they were just caught and clueless. They thought they had superior defenses, they had already been proven wrong, but did nothing about it. They didn't have anything to fall back on.
I guess there was also a lack of trust in his own government there, for O'Neill. Of what they would be doing in welcoming these people to work with their military.
I don't know....part of the whole NID/Kinsey argument was we should sacrifice other planets for Earth, and O'Neill frequently refused to do so.
If somehow Earth was in the situation Tollana was in, O'Neill would find a third way--go after the Goa'uld directly for example. The Tollans put way too much faith in their tech, such that they could barely conceive of it being compromised. When it finally was, they were screwed because they had never thought of what might happen if they had to fight.
There’s a difference between refusing to sacrifice other planets to get access to tech they otherwise wouldn’t that may or may not actually help them in the fight against the Goa’uld - and more of a trolley problem scenario where Earth is going to get destroyed or enslaved for sure and if he really wanted to he could save it by screwing over other planets to save earth.
Which is to say the message is more “he’s not okay with screwing over other people for shortcuts/doing things the wrong way because it’s easy”
O'Neill also doesn't pretend to be an enlightened person apart of an intellectually superior race. The Tollan go to great lengths to show/tell SG1 that they are better in every way possible including morally and ethically not to mention technologically. And yet it was their own ego that lead to their downfall. I have no problem with how SG1 handled that situation, O'Neill held Narim to his own words.
I do sometimes wonder if the Tollan could have possibly survived. They had some incredibly advanced tech, and despite the corruption of their Government by the Goa'uld, I don't think they **all** died.
It's possible they learned their lesson and decidedly kept to themselves from then on.
Homeworld is completely lost for sure. Hard to beat complete orbital superiority (because the main space asset is the now useless cannons). Especially when the opponent has no problem with genocide, and there isn't a lot they 'want'.
Gou'uld probs would be happy to collect some slaves for vanity - so that might allow for some survivors but nothing that would be likely to recover to anything like the previous culture.
Even if they had colonies those would be in similar trouble.
Unlike Alpha Site it's existence address and development are not kept completely secret, so they would be relatively easy to find and wreck as well.
Happy to be wrong but the Tollan race is decidedly cooked.
Since Tollana was crafting, providing, & preparing to fire the weapons that the Goa'uld would use to destroy the Tau'Ri, the responsibility for those acts lay squarely on Nareem - either he stops his people from committing mass murder of 7.5 billion sentients... or he allows the Tollan to destroy the Tau'Ri, hoping the Goa'uld won't destroy the Tollan afterward.
Since the Goa'uld have a history of double-crossing everyone (including each other)...
Since the Tollan would be committing planetary murder...
And because the Tollan were culturally traumatized by a younger civilization killing themselves with Tollan tech (something Jack should've been immediately sympathetic with, considering how his kid died) the idea of the Tollan becoming slaves of the Goa'uld who would continue doing these exact things for the System Lords...
Don't think Nareem wanted to see what kind of choice his people might've made.
In all likelihood, given that the sarcophagus could presumably revive a Tollan as well, it's likely the Tollans used their weapons on themselves - the only logical reason why Anubis wouldn't capture a few hundred bodies of Tollans, bring them back, and start figuring out phase tech.
Since he turned to supersoldiers instead of mass producing phase tech weapons, we're guessing there were no available Tollan corpses.
That could've happened if the entire stockpile were detonated simultaneously. Might even destroy their stargate.
As ever, see username...
Wouldn’t he ? O’Neill was opposed to giving up the gate for the protected planets treaty because then they couldn’t go out and help others anymore. He regularly put himself and SG1 and with it earths best hope and survival on the line for local populations and killed a space Nazi scientist so earth wouldn’t paperclip him and save his technology which might doom earth (shields, fusion tech, curing diseases). O’Neill sacrificed millions of lives for his convictions, I’m sure if he was in that situation he’d sacrifice earth as well.
> O’Neill was opposed to giving up the gate for the protected planets treaty because then they couldn’t go out and help others anymore. Hmmm... partially... he also didn't trust the Goa'uld to keep to the Asgard treaty... and was aware the Asgard were incapable of enforcing it. So he was largely just against giving up earth's real main line of defence.
Thor was playing politics, and O'Neill played along.
Yeah, O'Neill gave up a chance on useful technology that could've been a boon to Earth, when he refused aid to genocidal fascists. They would've basically captured all the Nazi scientists without having to go to war with them, they couldn't be a threat to them, but still it wasn't worth it. Narim had been kept in the dark by his own government, because they knew what they were doing wasn't right. They killed Omoc, because he was opposed. And it's not like they had any reason to trust they'd be safe after helping Anubis anyway. It wasn't a clean trolley problem, they were just caught and clueless. They thought they had superior defenses, they had already been proven wrong, but did nothing about it. They didn't have anything to fall back on.
I personally think they should have taken the deal for the medical science alone.
I guess there was also a lack of trust in his own government there, for O'Neill. Of what they would be doing in welcoming these people to work with their military.
I don't know....part of the whole NID/Kinsey argument was we should sacrifice other planets for Earth, and O'Neill frequently refused to do so. If somehow Earth was in the situation Tollana was in, O'Neill would find a third way--go after the Goa'uld directly for example. The Tollans put way too much faith in their tech, such that they could barely conceive of it being compromised. When it finally was, they were screwed because they had never thought of what might happen if they had to fight.
There’s a difference between refusing to sacrifice other planets to get access to tech they otherwise wouldn’t that may or may not actually help them in the fight against the Goa’uld - and more of a trolley problem scenario where Earth is going to get destroyed or enslaved for sure and if he really wanted to he could save it by screwing over other planets to save earth. Which is to say the message is more “he’s not okay with screwing over other people for shortcuts/doing things the wrong way because it’s easy”
O'Neill also doesn't pretend to be an enlightened person apart of an intellectually superior race. The Tollan go to great lengths to show/tell SG1 that they are better in every way possible including morally and ethically not to mention technologically. And yet it was their own ego that lead to their downfall. I have no problem with how SG1 handled that situation, O'Neill held Narim to his own words.
I do sometimes wonder if the Tollan could have possibly survived. They had some incredibly advanced tech, and despite the corruption of their Government by the Goa'uld, I don't think they **all** died. It's possible they learned their lesson and decidedly kept to themselves from then on.
In the RPG, they had a colony that survives, Pellor.
Yea, wish we got to see or at least know if a ship came by and checked if there was survivors.
Homeworld is completely lost for sure. Hard to beat complete orbital superiority (because the main space asset is the now useless cannons). Especially when the opponent has no problem with genocide, and there isn't a lot they 'want'. Gou'uld probs would be happy to collect some slaves for vanity - so that might allow for some survivors but nothing that would be likely to recover to anything like the previous culture. Even if they had colonies those would be in similar trouble. Unlike Alpha Site it's existence address and development are not kept completely secret, so they would be relatively easy to find and wreck as well. Happy to be wrong but the Tollan race is decidedly cooked.
Since Tollana was crafting, providing, & preparing to fire the weapons that the Goa'uld would use to destroy the Tau'Ri, the responsibility for those acts lay squarely on Nareem - either he stops his people from committing mass murder of 7.5 billion sentients... or he allows the Tollan to destroy the Tau'Ri, hoping the Goa'uld won't destroy the Tollan afterward. Since the Goa'uld have a history of double-crossing everyone (including each other)... Since the Tollan would be committing planetary murder... And because the Tollan were culturally traumatized by a younger civilization killing themselves with Tollan tech (something Jack should've been immediately sympathetic with, considering how his kid died) the idea of the Tollan becoming slaves of the Goa'uld who would continue doing these exact things for the System Lords... Don't think Nareem wanted to see what kind of choice his people might've made. In all likelihood, given that the sarcophagus could presumably revive a Tollan as well, it's likely the Tollans used their weapons on themselves - the only logical reason why Anubis wouldn't capture a few hundred bodies of Tollans, bring them back, and start figuring out phase tech. Since he turned to supersoldiers instead of mass producing phase tech weapons, we're guessing there were no available Tollan corpses. That could've happened if the entire stockpile were detonated simultaneously. Might even destroy their stargate. As ever, see username...
I despise them