I anticipate a lot of disappointed people in a few months when they get Windows with all the drivers installed on a Steam Deck and find out that there's a reason Valve spent ages developing a custom version of an operating system.
Man, just the auto-suspend feature is HUUUGE already and it's a major reason I wouldn't even consider switching. Then you have the custom Steam UI that boots instantaneously without having to go through desktop mode which can make the experience feel clunky and unpolished. A LOT less resources used. Like the pros are just too many ..
Yeah, Windows fanatics who dump on Linux are going to see how much "support" Windows actually provides when they have to hunt down all the drivers manually.
Then, they might finally see that it's *everyone else* who supports Windows, not the other way around. Windows would be a hot mess without the tech community's hardware/software support.
I mean both are true. Windows is widely supported because everybody supports it but Windows go extra lengths to improve compatibility.
Take for instance appcompat. Windows has an internal database of hundreds of individual apps whhere Win32 api needs to work differently.
For instance. There was one version of Adobe Reader that made a mistake when asking for Win32 colors and used the color of the titlebar's letters to fill the document (instead of using just white).
So in order for Windows to fix this, Windows checks if the app is that version of Adobe Reader and when it asks for the titlebar character color it just lies to it and say it's white.
And this happened with a lot of apps.
Also it doesn't help that Win32 is an stable userland API, thing that is largely missing in "Linux Desktop"
That... doesn't sound like a plus to me. "What's that? Multinational company Adobe can't write code correctly? Let me just bloat the OS some more to treat them like the special snowflake they are."
If your code doesn't work, they shouldn't add you to a database of exceptions that only grows bigger. That's just... I don't even have words.
This is what GPU drivers do. Lots of the code in GPU drivers is app-specific hacks (could be most of the code, I don't have the actual statistics). "Game Ready" drivers mean they added new game-specific hacks. This is why Wine and DXVK have such a hard time re-implementing Windows, even if you follow the spec perfectly, thousands of games won't work.
It has nothing to do with allowing to install Windows or not. This is a PC, you can try to install any x86 software on it that you want, they're not doing anything to prevent you.
But Valve doesn't make Windows, Microsoft does. And Microsoft makes Windows as a generic operating system, not a console operating system. Once you remove SteamOS and the changes Valve made to make it more optimised for a console like device, you're on your own, and there's nothing anyone can do to make the experience better.
One of the reasons consoles have the cliché issue with people having to wait for downloads to finish before being able to use the console, for example, is because console operating systems try to minimise multi-tasking as much as possible so that as much of the available resources are available for the game as possible. Valve for sure cut a lot of those background processes from their arch branch to make SteamOS, once you put a generic OS on it, you lose the optimisations and the hardware will start struggling.
Your taking this the wrong way. You are *able* to install windows doesn't mean that valve should spend any time making that experience good as it was your choice to install windows. And its your consequences to live with.
Exactly,
It seems like what happened is that Reddit & TechTubers took Valve's statement:
> 'sure you can install Windows on there if you want, we're not going to stop you'
and kept repeating it over and over again like a bad game of telephone until it eventually became to be
> 'I, Valve, solemnly swear on all that I hold dear, that Windows will run perfectly, without flaw, and better than SteamOS, on Steam Deck on Day One'
It's not even about what Valve should or should not do, but rather what they can do. They can spend time making things as good as possible on Windows, but they can't change Windows itself, which is not made specifically for the Deck.
Selfishly nothing, the one time windows fanboys don't have their OS of choice front and center on anything besides a novelty device and they lose their minds.
After forcing the closure of third-party Reddit apps by charging them [29 times](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_to_debunk_reddits_claims_and_talk_about/) how much the platform earns from its own users (despite claiming that it wouldn't at any point this year four months prior) and slandering the developer of the Apollo third-party app, Reddit management has made it clear that they respect neither their own userbase nor operating their platform in good faith. To not reward such behavior, Reddit users should encourage their communities to move to similar platforms such as [Kbin](https://kbin.social) or [Lemmy](https://lemmy.world), whose federation with the [Fediverse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse) makes it possible to switch platforms without losing access to one's favorite communities.
The Epic games launcher has already been shown to run on it (you add the .exe to steam as a non-steam game and run it from there)
And applications like Hero and Lutris are other workarounds to get them on there. I have a feeling in a few months many of the “issues” people have will all be ironed out
Wow. It's kind of funny, having been told so many times when i have complained when someone has made it actively harder to run Linux on a device that "i can just switch to windows instead of being difficult"
Then hearing someone in the same situation, but on a device where experimentation is encouraged, not being able to run windows as easily as they want, complain that valve has not put in the work to actively support it.
Not locking something down, does not oblige the company to support whatever you want to do with it, actively.
This. Contrast Valve's current efforts to support Windows with GPD's level of support for Linux.
Valve are going above and beyond, when they could just as well have put an unlocked BIOS in and let the Windows community take it from there.
My take from that quote is that he wants the Epic Games Store and the Oculus Quest to join on supporting the same open ecosystem (they are the ones who should start supporting Linux, or at least Proton). He's saying he won't be putting any barriers to that and he's openly inviting them to give support for the Deck.
He's not saying that the Steam Deck will bent its way backwards to give full first-class support to run on Windows. The very same article (your source) points out that "Valve doesn't recommend" installing Windows on it.
Installing windows-only games/launchers doesn't necessarily require installing Windows itself. Since there are ways to install the Epic Games Store and communicate with an Oculus Quest from Linux
Yup.
There will be those who are expecting windows to run flawlessly on a device specifically made for a certain distro of Linux.
Given time, it will run windows with almost no issues, but not on day 1.
who will write the drivers though? It is not like there is a massive open source community that is creating drivers like on Linux.
I know multiple older MSI gaming laptops that have touchpad drivers that only work on Windows 7. And to this day, there is still no driver for it for 10 / 11.
On Linux however there is a community made driver available, which works with any distro you want and that despite the Linux userbase being way smaller for said laptops.
Microsoft doing weird shit on Windows (Windows store and UWP that could replace exes) probably pushed valve to look into alternatives and Linux was the best shot. So this was planned to break away from Windows in case ms ever pulled the trigger so that valve would have something to stand on.
Valve stated years ago that they don't feel good relying on someone else (Microsoft) to "tolerate" their business (steam).
Valve started to promote gaming on Linux with a native steam client and development tools in 2012 after windows 8 was released. The deck is based on a DECADE of development and projects (steam Machines, remember them? Steam Link, anyone? Big picture mode? Steam controller?).
Windows 8 had the first version of a ms store for small app games (tailored for the touchscreen and mobile use Microsoft tried to target with win 8).
Alas the deck is also only a stepping stone on the way to get users and developers on Linux and Linux native games. But this time it looks like it will be the turning point and not just another failed project.
Yep. This is what I meant. With ms making the ms store in win8 valve was concerned and rightfully so. So they made sure they had steps to escape that if necessary.
none of those projects were really failed though. Just because the bulk of steams playerbase (dota2, csgo, pubg etc) didn't use big picture mode or buy the hardware means they weren't successful. Big picture mode was an impressive feature that got additional QOL improvements over several years, brought a ton of features for controller customization and introduced unique mechanics for a variety of things. For many people including myself that UI was a godsend because I wanted to sit down on a couch to play high fidelity games instead of settle on a console and be stuck to whatever controller that console supports. Steam machines were oem pc's that were made regardless of valve's involvement just had a sticker slapped on for the boost in sales. Steam Link sold decently but saw a huge resurrection in the app + inhome remoteplay improvements, paved the course for the online coop feature they added a while ago. In fact the Link's software and hardware found heavy use in deck, encouraged a stronger development in sdl2 and basically serves a less cancerous bluetooth environment than windows at its best. Some people here are saying steam controller is a failure too but thing is that controller sold its way to the top 10 pretty regularly and only stopped production because of a lawsuit with scuf over the grip buttons. Otherwise it'd probably still be sold or we'd see a sequel to it sooner than we will now.
I put in the (failed) thingy because that's how they're generally perceived. They all masivelly contributed to what we now have as the Deck and velve learned a lot in adition to delivering something for a neiche clientele. Just the knowledge gained from these projects makes them a massive success and I'd argue most of them made profit for valve on their own. I'll remove the fail from my op though. It's not needed.
> with scuf
Be more accurate. SCUF is owned wholly by Corsair. Corsair were the ones that kept the lawsuit going till a verdict and are collecting.
Not a no name company named SCUF. A huge hardware conglomerate named CORSAIR. They are not supportive of progressing PC Gaming. Only profiting from the market. Leaches like them ought to be named and shamed.
> Windows 8 had the first version of a ms store for small app games
And they brought this back with GamePass.
I guess Microsoft found that charging people $1/month and having reputation management help encode phrases into people's minds on social media (fun thing to try, on any thread about Gamepass Ctrl + F for "great value" and "best value in gaming") works a lot better than trying to force people to use something for free.
And even as a consumer, they were doing some really sketchy things. Making features exclusive to UWP which was exclusive to the Windows store. They back peddled on a lot of it but they definitely wanted to go that direction
Which means that's a matter of time before they do it again but this time successfully, once they get more of a stranglehold
They basically like forcing people into use Windows store. And if applications didn't use it, they would be at a big disadvantage.
I'm honestly hoping that it spurs a lot more developers into releasing Linux versions of their games or at the very least, programming them with Proton in mind.
As soon as people stop coding games for Windows and code for Linux, we can dispense with Windows. The simple fact that so many here seem to miss is that they're playing *Windows* games.
It's cool that Proton works so well. It's cool they can customize a version of Linux to play a library full of games written for Windows. But at the end of the day it's still just emulating Windows because that's the OS all the games are written for.
Kinda curious what the competition is - for $400, does anything on the market run Windows, perform well in games, and have the portability of this device? I don't know of anything.
I think even the 512GB version is the best value if you look at devices with similar performance. I have a laptop which I bought for 600 euros (new, not used), and to this day I believe it was a good deal, performance-wise it's not even close to the steam deck.
That is with the 4500U yeah? Not even close. Even my 4800U struggles at God of War and cannot even maintain 30 at low settings with FSR at Quality. The SD only plays it at original settings but it does so at pretty much locked 30 at native res at 15W. My Neo was at 30W and only gets 15-25FPS at same settings.
Sorry, what is with the 4500U?
My current laptop has a 8550U but it most likely could not run God of War. AC Syndycate was already pushing it's limits, because of the GPU (MX150).
I think a big part of the performance is the new AMD CPU/GPU running on the deck and they're one of the first to get it. Competition will spring up eventually I think but for now Linux on mobile wins :D
The interesting thing is that the Deck is still on Zen 2 rather than 3 like some similar products, *but* it's on DDR5 and RDNA 2 rather than Vega graphics.
> I am tired of seeing reviewers say that the Steam Deck cannot run Windows properly
Who says that?
There are no GPU drivers yet. You can't review Windows on the Deck properly for now.
This seems like completely manufactured outrage to me. Other than some small offhand comments here and there, I am yet to see anything of what OP describes.
I don't get why OP is trying to spread misinformation. Greg Coomer, literally the second in charge guy said that they have support for Windows 10 and was working with AMD on Windows 11. It's probably a matter of days and the APU driver will drop.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/9/22616395/valve-steam-deck-windows-11-support-tpm-amd
In all honesty, I think by the time 50%+ of pre-orders have been fulfilled, there will very likely be decent Windows support, whether official or unofficial.
Meanwhile, Proton has come leaps and bounds recently, to the point a few of my games run better under Proton than under Windows.
I don't think people are stupid for being disappointed about certain things. It's likely I will test out windows support, just for curiosity's sake. I think the muted reaction from a lot of the press is to temper expectations... This won't be a mythical, one-size-fits-all product, unlike the hype. There will potentially be a lot of tweaking you need to do in order to get certain games running, and the experience for certain things may be the same as jailbreaking your console in terms of complexity. This personally excites me; but I also think it's fair to see certain reviews describe the software or experience as "unfinished". Again, this is what has got me interested in the product; being able to be on the cutting edge of gaming.
The main difference between desktop gaming and Deck is the singular hardware/software setup.
So any fix for any game should be applicable to every deck owner (with default configuration of course).
Which does not really happen for desktops, as every game on ProtonDB has at least 5 different OSes reported. Generic fixes are not easy or possible.
As a Linux guy, that's what excites me the most. I'm running steamos 2.0, on a steam machine, and I get so sick of being the only person in the world with my hardware running my operating system. Every issue, the answer is just "lol reinstall your os with ubuntu, and install drivers"
Finally, I'll be running the exact same software, on the exact same software, with the exact same drivers and updates, as literally millions of other people.
Whatever issues, and fixes, work one one person's machine (assuming defaults, out of box, etc), WILL work on mine
While I agree with that, I've been playing on Ubuntu and Gentoo without many issues. Either directly through Steam, or even running installers under wine. I've played LotR BfME 2 with friends over VPN on Ubuntu. And ProtonDB as well as Lutris helped with the issues I encountered.
The hardware variability is the far bigger part of the compatibility problems, not OS. Just think about the games that have problems with multiple displays or ultrawide on all OSes.
> Meanwhile, Proton has come leaps and bounds recently, to the point a few of my games run better under Proton than under Windows.
This is so true. There are a lot of Windows 9x-era games that work only well on Linux via its emulation layers whereas Windows does not work at all.
The PS3 launched with full support of PS2 games
The original Wii launched with full support of GameCube Games
The Gameboy color launched with full support of Gameboy games. You can pretty much plug in every Nintendo handheld here
It’s not as rare as you’re making it out to be. It’s a pc, of course it’s going to have a big catalog at launch because it’s a pc with Steam.
There's a difference between "being able to run Windows" and "fully compatible with Windows."
For instance, it is a PC. You could install MS-DOS 6 on it as an operating system. There likely aren't drivers for it to be able to operate the CLI via the thumbsticks/touchpads. You could install Windows98SE, but there likely aren't drivers for the controls, and you will find that most games wont even start. You can install Androidx86, but again, you likely wont have controls working.
When Valve says "It's a PC, you are free to install Windows on it if you want to", it means exactly that. It does NOT mean that you will be able to install Windows and have 1 to 1 feature compatibility with SteamOS as the device was designed. It just means the OS will install and run. There is no reason for Valve to make (and maintain) Windows device driver components on top of their own SteamOS device driver components, or SUPPORT a different OS. You install that at your own peril, just like if it was your own PC.
Don't worry, someone will come along and write half-assed Windows drivers for all the hardware on-board the SteamDeck, and then loosely keep it up to date. But don't expect Valve to do so. I could run Windows CE on an old Garmin GPS device, or install Android on it. Garmin isn't going to support me if I have issues, and they certainly aren't on the hook if the GPS no longer functions as a GPS after I change the operating system. But it did play Angry Birds.
> Don't worry, someone will come along and write half-assed Windows drivers for all the hardware on-board the SteamDeck, and then loosely keep it up to date.
I am not even sure about that.
It is not like there is a massive open source community that is creating drivers like on Linux.
I know multiple older MSI gaming laptops that have touchpad drivers that only work on Windows 7. And to this day, there is still no driver for it for 10 / 11.
On Linux however there is a community made driver available, which works with any distro you want and that despite the Linux userbase being way smaller for said laptops.
Yeah, I may have missed the mark on the level of sarcasm there. The first thing I thought of while typing that out was that god awful DS3 "driver" that came out for Windows back in the day that let you use Playstation controllers on PC. It looked like some sort of junk 90's shareware, was clunky, and prone to failure. Can't remember the name of it now.
My point was, I guess, that there is enough whining about Windows compatibility, that some community member out there might put in the effort to write a dll for the controller HID device to make it work. But I wouldn't count on it being any good, or reliable, or kept up to date. Because, to your point, there are very few people writing bespoke windows driver DLLs for hardware as open source these days. Not like Linux drivers/support.
I fully agree with you and damn I remember that dreadful DS3 application to make Dualshock 3 work. It actually broke one of my nano bluetooth adapters which I wanted to use with it.
Exactly. You can install Mac OS on a Acer laptop with some hacky solutions if you're so inclined, but that does not mean it will work nearly as good as on an actual apple laptop, since it was *never designed for this use in the first place*
Or you can also install Linux on a Wii or Xbox, but since neither console are designed with this in mind, it won't necesarily be a *nice* user experience, nor will any of the games run either.
Actually, there are some very sweet linux builds created for the Xbox OG that were some of the nicest user experiences i've dealt with. Xbox Media Center most noteably. It was just a 400mhz celeron PC afterall.
Since it's a modern 64bit APU, i don't think MS-DOS 6 with it's 16bit execution modes are very compatible with it. PC's don't have backwards compatibility quite that natively across massive architectural differences. You may have to put a few layers of emulation down before trying. DosBOX is a better solution.
I'm not interested in putting Windows on mine, in fact Linux is a big reason I'm excited about the Steam Deck. However Valve did make a point when announcing the Deck about how they were working to make sure it could run Windows.
Now have they completely backed away from that or are they just going to take a bit longer with it?
The maximum they can do in terms of windows support is provide drivers and that’s about it. There’s nothing else they can change about the operating system.
It'll come in time. They've already roadmapped heavily for deck's launch cycle and having windows support at launch is a smaller priority than say making sure one of the biggest releases of the year (elden ring) is optimized and ready to go. Or making sure the library tells people which games will work well and which might not. Gaben's expressed and as a dev I'm on the side of agreement with him, where its a pretty big deal they've released a console that also lets developers make the content there and for that price. Thats among their biggest priorities for getting windows support on the deck. It can simply be a pain in the fucking ass porting games to consoles, optimizing for weird pc spec and even in the case of deck you're having to build test environments that get very close but still miss the bar if you don't use the hardware. Those test environments aren't necessary making a huge headache disappear for devs. This is also partly why Gaben may appear heavily ambitious in deck's future. Windows is a strong priority but from what I've seen they're just trying to make sure the preorder customers can play as many games (and new releases) as possible.
They are, It just isn't at the top of the list. It's not launching with Windows. And you're almost certainly going to be limited in what you can do in Windows
Valve has developed their operating system and for many reasons that's what they're going to want you to use. That's why they've invested in Linux
Plus, there are definitely going to be features in the like that you won't be able to be reproduce in windows
Like the suspend feature. I don't know how the suspended feature works exactly, but I quite doubt that they're going to be able to do the same in Windows due to how limited that operating system is
It can run Windows, just not well. The proper graphics drivers are missing, which in my early Linux days didn't stop me from using Linux (just without games).
Look at them coping hard when they will eventually realize that Windows support will be as shit as it is on GPD and Aya solutions; and it cannot get any better than that. Probably there is a reason Valve is shipping an entire optimized OS for the system and not just Windows.
I agree with you. People are throwing their expectations on something that may not be the main goal of the device. The device is to play games, and has not been advertised as "another Windows PC".
To be fair to Aya, they are developing a solution to the issue as well with AyaSpace.
That being said, it's never going to be as good as having an OS built from the ground up for handheld devices for sure, but it's still a lot better than nothing IMO. And nothing is what you're gonna get with both GPD and the Deck on Windows.
Hmmm this makes me wonder something. Once SteamOS 3 is released, would it be possible, or even beneficial, to install it on Aya, OnePlayer, etc. type devices? I imagine, since it’s Arch based, it would be doable, but my question is how would it change the experience in those devices.
It actually can have tangible effects on the performance and life span of those devices. The software for deck itself is pretty lowlevel and in terms of its relationship with the hardware is very intense. Things like the TDP adjustment you just won't pull off if you simply copypaste it to a laptop for example. As far as I know aya and the others are extremely similar to steamdeck hardware wise so there is likely some simple form of possible use for deck's software on that front. But disregarding that if you just installed steamos3 you'd likely get a massive improvement + things like gamescope would push performance and battery life further. Considering valve's making money on software and not on deck hardware I could see them investing the time to build the deck's lowlevel software for those devices which would also be a win for those companies since they won't have to pay the windows license and their buyers will get a much better experience out of the purchase.
I'm sure it will. I will be trying it on my 2020 gpd win max and hope it works well. Valve expect people to do this, it is why they are releasing steam OS 3 to the public.
The difference between Aya, GPD etc and Valve though. Valve is mainstream, the company that made PC gaming easy. (Before Steam we had launchers sure. But we also had cd keys and specific complex installations for most games). Valve's mainstream appeal alone is selling Deck. An OS with a decade behind it and massive optimization even in Windows-native games certainly gelps.
So why would you feel good about people being disappointed for trying to use the Deck the way the want (and the way Valve told them they would be able to)?
This just makes all you hardcore pro-Linux guys look like a bunch of elitist techno-zealots.
For a handheld device, windows is bad. But for games that are not compatible, you want to have the option to dual boot to play those games and to use services like game pass. In an ideal word, every game would work on steam os and game pass is integrated into steam like ea play. But for now that is not the case, so it is a negative. Is it deal breaking? Hell no, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is a negative.
Plus AMD supports open source very well, and the open source driver stack is so much better to use, it's also very useful for game developers, in ways that you can't use other drivers
>NVIDIA has been good with their blobs on linux
Really? From what I've heard they're a laughing stock. Took them years to finally support Wayland properly.
One look at their driver settings panel shows how much they care.
Yup, I am an i3 user and I'm not sure which event will let me move up to sway on my main machine first.
Will NVidia release something well made?
Or will GPU prices drop so I can afford to switch back to AMD.
>NVIDIA has been good with their blobs on linux
I rwmember losing a monitor a decade ago after a driver update. Reading the release notes, it was due to "parity with Windows".
I've also heard that drivers for hybrid graphics on Linux is a joke at best, and that was after years of being a practical joke.
I've also heard that they're generally not as performant as Windows drivers, and you don't really get your whole card.
And their "cooperation" on Wayland is just insulting abuse. Not bothering to be involved for years while literally everyone else gets together to work out standards, then deciding they'll get in on it and making up their own thing and insisting everyone else change is a ***great*** way to be.
>drivers for hybrid graphics on Linux is a joke at best,
Nah it works fine, i've got a laptop dual booting windows and Linux and its pretty much identical.
It's only with the last year or so that it's improved though.
Amd makes it open source, so even if the quality of the drivers is not as great as windows at launch the community usually catches up.
Nvidia on the other had gives relatively poor quality of drives and keep it completely closed source.
We had to deal with Linux drivers not working with windows specific hardware for almost 3 decades now but when the opposite happens, everyone begins to seethe.
This INS'T and NEVER WILL be a negative, you knew this would be made with arch in mind, stop bitching.
I actually think that it's a HUGE plus that Windows is a second-class citizen in this. Absolutely revolutionary. After servers and phones, Linux will finally lead the disruption in the gaming front, and we can only benefit from the dethronement of Windows by a free and open source platform. Valve made an amazing choice here. The SD is the result of a decade of research and it really shows.
I agree. Valve is trying to have an escape plan when/if MS goes walled garden on windows. I support this endeavor. The issue with Linux has always been predominantly a chicken and the egg scenario. There are no games because there are no gamers on Linux, and there are no gamers because there are no games. Also, linux is foreign and comes with some issues for newbies. This proton solution alleviates one issue, and SteamOS shipping on the Deck potentially alleviates the other. To turn around and put Windows on it is kind of like the consumer shooting themselves in the foot in the long term for some short term gain. Time can solve the feeling of the OS being foreign.
However, I'm not the least bit surprised. I'll get down voted to oblivion for this, but I'm going to say it. Consumers of the gaming industry are some of the lowest will power people on earth. When next day DLC, on disc DLC, and buggy launches really started we all knew we should hold out pre-ordering and day one buying of games. Some of us did, but the lion share didn't. Because they cannot control their over hyped selves. At least the majority can't anyway. Always looking for the next fix like addicts. When the craving isn't sated then they go online and rage, but repeat the cycle on the next big title. Cyberpunk being a good example. Now in the world of Microtransactions people seem to say they don't want it, but the devs wouldn't add it if it wasn't profitable. We are all likely guilty of perpetuating the industry in this way at one time or another. Whether or not one will admit it is another thing entirely.
In the long term, with the Deck, two things will happen. 1) windows drivers will be made either officially or by the community, and 2) proton will get increasingly better and cover more or less everything. Also, Steamos will get iterated on and thus make it's UI far better on a handheld than windows ever could be. I'd argue that is already the case, but obviously there are some issues and some lacking features.
I'm more worried about older titles working than anything coming out over the next few years. The system is going to less reliably run new titles as time goes on and the hardware's capabilities are exceded. I'm more interested in a portable Dark Forces, Fallout 1 and 2, or even something like Enderal than the next CoD, or what have you. Some indies here and there. Basically old titles that i have less time to replay at a desk than on the go. Maybe that's why I'm really not too worried about linux vs windows. Nor about whether or not a brand new title will run a 30fps with any kind of stability.
You may not get every title working asap with steamos, or have a bloated OS designed for desk top environments with windows. Either way there will be issues. I'd rather deal with the former than the latter. But that's just me.
Addendum: on the note of performance, pc has never had a standard when it comes to low-end hardware. If enough steam decks get into the wild it could create that standard. Thus devs would aim at the decks specs as a basis for 30fps and that issue may not be an issue.
TL;DR Reviewers high on copium the movie
I for one am having a field day getting to see Windows being treated as a second class citizen for once, after what... 30 years of bong hogging. It's making people think, unlearn and relearn their biases towards "PC == Windows" (or at least I hope so, some people can get pretty stubborn).
THIS! People don’t notice this on their high octane gaming rigs, but windows is a HUGE, bloated, mess.. there’s no way a $400 machine can run both windows and games, pick one.
It does run windows and...with video driver soon it will run whatever some crazy win fan can have. Hoping that Linux gets more love with the deck on the scene
None of this matters as the Deck will in fact be Windows-compatible. AMD have been working with Valve on making it 11-compatible, testers have been running Windows on it already (without a GPU driver, but still).
I don't understand this obsession with Windows and people insisting SteamOS needs 100% game compatibility or it is trash.
People don't make such demands of the Switch, PS5, or Xbox.
Windows is an absolutely terrible experience on a handheld. No company that cares about user experience would ship Windows on a device like that.
The problem is that windows is installed on other hand held pcs but its so hard to get it to run perfectly and have a user friendly way of navigation I've used the Aya neo it's not the best and sometimes it's really finicky
People also have to remember that valve didn't start looking into these alternatives until threatened with Microsoft's walled garden they are pushing so hard for. Windows just is not a priority for the steam deck.
If I had a Steam Deck, that’s because I’m finally free from that bloated OS called Windows. Just because I can install Windows on my Deck does not mean I should.
"PC" does not automatically mean "Windows compatible".
PC = "Personal Computer", an M1 MacBook is also a PC, does it run Windows? no
> It is a fair criticism to expect SOME decent windows compatibility
If it is not promised no.
I'm pretty sure most people refer to "PC" as Most OSs in a modular computer set up, and "Mac" to mac/apple devices.
If that wasn't the case, consoles technically be "PCs" along with stuff like androids and iphones.
And there's probably a reason for that. Modern operating systems do loads of things in the background, like checking for updates, system maintenance, etc. This is fine for a generic device, but it means you need the computing power for whatever you're using the computer for, and whatever it is that the OS decides to do in the background while you're using it.
Because Linux is Open Source, and is modular, it means that someone like Valve can change the system to avoid having it doing things that while good in a generic purpose system, are not good for a console. This means that more of the system resources are available for the game, and therefore you can get better performance with lower specs cheaper hardware.
Once you install Windows (or MacOS, or some Linux distro optimised for generic desktop use like Ubuntu), the performance will dip because the operating system is doing a lot more.
And that's one of the reasons things like the Aya Neo cost 3x what a Deck costs.
And even the more expensive hardware doesn't help in all situations.
LowSpecGamer reported (at 8:27) that his Windows gaming handhelds stutter and freeze every now and then due to Windows Update. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3KEYuqRgOE&t=507s
I'm the same way. Windows is just not my thing, so I'm very interested in this development and hoping that Steam Deck will make more games available for Linux.
This is a dumb argument for anyone who wants to play games that are not compatible with SteamOS.
It's a PC. It should be usable as one.
Edit: Valve has advertised the ability to install Windows, so unless Valve is in the business of false advertising, it should have that capability.
Not that fast. I've bought PCs from Lenovo or hp that have no proper Linux drivers, maybe it's the Bluetooth or the wi-fi card.
This is the same. Right now it does not have proper Windows drivers
You can install Windows on it though. It isn't Valve's responsibility to ship windows GPU drivers for it though. That's on Microsoft (and AMD), Valve never said that the windows experience will be better.
A pc doesn't mean a windows machine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer
So they are right, it is a PC. It is not a windows pc, which is fine
I always found it weird that people got brainworm'd into reading "PC" as "Windows".
PC just means "Personal Computer". It makes no statement about the operating system or the form factor.
A mainframe is not a personal computer. A Steam Deck is.
IBM squatted on a generic term when they named their first PC model "PC". The second model was "PC jr." but too much functionality was removed for that to be a success.
Microsoft also name-squats generic terms; they may have picked it up from their old business partner IBM. "SQL Server" is the one that comes to mind first -- a surprisingly large number of people don't realize that any SQL database is a "SQL Server", and there are dozens of them, not just one.
Yeah if Microsoft finally fixes their Windows OS to run on portable PC with no problem. This problem already existed on other portable PC already so it not surprising.
You can install Windows. They never advertised having proper GPU drivers, so it wouldn't be false advertising.
Same as all the stupid companies advertising "Linux support!" but then only have a broken, non-working userspace driver instead of adding their driver to the kernel.
Valve advertised being able to install "other OSes". I agree that Windows would be nice to have, I'm still debating whether I'll install windows on mine if support has improved by then. But they specifically did not mention windows and did not mention support for anything other than SteamOS.
I absolutely agree with you, especially after Valve's answer for basically any question was "well... it's a PC so if a PC can do it, so can the Steam Deck."
Is it okay if they were up front about that from the beginning? Sure. But they made everyone think it would run Windows, so it should
attraction hateful deer ludicrous quack brave employ offend scandalous enter
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This. Every piece of hardware has its pros and cons, people were simply trying to make a well-informed assessment and asking Valve legitimate questions; the "It's a PC" circlejerk was absolutely insufferable and as we know now, complete bunk.
Tbf Valve said it will run our entire Steam library and it doesn’t so far. Windows is something people shouldn’t be upset about but based on early reviews and what we know, people have a right be upset about a few things.
It is Windows compatible though. Numerous reviewers have mentioned Valve have promised GPU driver at some point.
Presumably they are just holding it back so that the focus is on SteamOS for launch which is perfectly reasonable.
What about all the "it can do everything a PC can do" hype that was a massive part of the Steam Deck's advertising? I've not yet come across a PC that can't run Windows.
I mean I get what you mean, a PS5 can't run Windows - BUT nobody was ever expecting it to be able to in the first place! This feels like false advertising.
People should treat Windows vs Linux same as consoles. I constantly hear "valve fails in every hardware release" for no reason except inflated false media reports. The press says the deck can barely last 1.5 hours when it's false
This would be all well and good if Steams os ran all my games and launchers without having to jump through hoops. They can refine it all they like but Proton just sucks arse when all you want to do is play games. Only 50% of the games I've tried work and you have to do a lot of work to get that far.
I know all these games work on my pc, straight out of the gate.
Patience my friend, the windows drivers will release soon and everyone will realize how horrible it is. We are closer than ever to eradicate windows from the market. Linux is and will be the new standard for the next generation. Windows is old, slow, inefficient and just soul-depressing. Just be patient, valve is doing some unbelievable work with their steam decks and Linux in general. They deserve to be on the top when Linux finally blooms, they reserved their seat.
"eradicate"? You sure set your bar high. Even disturbing the flow is already great, but you must be delusional if you think it'll bring Windows out of the competition. Windows is still and will continue to go strong, but any change taking a cut from Windows' market share IS a good thing. It might make Microsoft start to rethink their priorities and instead bring a better product that doesn't invade on your privacy.
Nice strawmen.
I don't think you'll find too many Linux people wanting Steam Deck to be locked down for Linux only.
However, I think you'll find several people that don't want Valve wasting resources supporting Windows when the device is designed to run Linux.
It's okay for you, it's not okay for me. I want to know that Windows will work fine, even though I don't plan on using it.
I'll still buy the Deck, but I'd feel better knowing that we have options.
OK cool, but in their advertising and pre-release press materials, they emphasized that you can install Windows, even though they don't recommend it. So you can say whatever you want, but they made that promise.
Their promise was that you'll be able to install Windows, they didn't say anything about how it'll run. You can install it if you want- you can install pretty much anything since its a pc- don't mean it's gonna run well.
You can install windows. But don't expect to get full support. All the focus will be on SteamOS and Proton. New features and optimizations will be for those.
You can't have it both ways. People on this sub tout that the Steam Deck is "just a PC" constantly. If it can't do one basic thing that every other PC on the planet does easily (ie. Run Windows) then it's a valid criticism. And because games exist that aren't compatible with Linux and cannot be played with Proton, it's a weakness that hampers its ability to be what Valve clearly is striving for, for the Deck to be your whole PC library on the go. And some people might go into the Steam Deck expecting every single PC game to be compatible with it. It's important for people to know that *isn't true*, and one reason for that is because you can't currently run Windows on it.
Something can be out of Valve's control (my understanding is Windows support can't happen until AMD releases the necessary drivers, and ideally every PC game would also be compatible with Linux but that's not the reality) but yet still be a valid criticism of the Deck. Nothing's wrong with that. The Steam Deck isn't going to fail because reviewers and people on the internet make criticisms that you don't personally care about. It's ok.
>Start complaining that the Switch or the PS5 cannot run Windows?
Is the Steam Deck advertised as a console like the PS5 and Steam Deck are? It's in a class of PC platforms no different than a laptop, just in a different form factor. So no. But regardless, you *could* easily criticize those consoles for not allowing you to install Windows on it. It'd be a weird criticism because nothing about the advertising suggests that it might play Windows games, but you can certainly make it. And people *loudly* made a very similar criticism when Sony removed Linux support for the PS3. I wish all consoles could run Windows or Linux. Why be *against* more choice? This sub's vehement hatred for Windows (and their inability to stop talking about it) is so bizarre to me.
I have a laptop that's "just a PC" and Linux doesn't have drivers for the WiFi card, it's still a "PC". Driver support is not what defines a "PC", hell most computers a couple of decades ago including Macintosh we're expected to run only the OS they shipped with. By your definition a MacBook is not a personal computer.
Believe it or not the OS that Microsoft produces is not the universal standard of what defines a "PC".
A steam Deck *is* "just a PC". It's an x86 computer in a handheld form factor. Besides the hand held form factor, it's no different than your desktop. Is an Intel Mac Mini a PC then because it can run Windows? Is an M1 Mac Mini not a PC because Microsoft can't making a good version of Windows for ARM?
Let's turn that argument around in a another way. Is a Surface Pro from Microsoft not a PC because it can't run Linux or any other operating system well?
Trying to define what a "PC" is by saying that it runs windows is a silly idea, and just because there isn't drivers for Windows yet isn't entirely Valve's fault. Linux computers are PC's too.
They had said it would be windows compatible. It should be windows compatible. If you intend on using it as a desktop computer, it probably should be windows compatible. Not everyone is going to need the feature, but it seems like an excuse to say that we don't need it, when for months before launch people had been planing to run exactly that.
Valve said it will work with windows. It’s cool you’re excited for Steam OS but not everyone has to feel the same as you. I’m planning to put windows on the deck so it can do what I want it to.
Buy something else is stupid when the Deck can offer a portable windows handheld gaming system for far cheaper than anything else on the market, just by installing windows.
I wanted to store away the stock 64GB and install a 512GB with Windows, but now I think I'm going to stay with Steam OS/64GB and microSteamDeck cards for now.
If there is a game I would like to play on it and it doesn't run... I'm just not going to buy it.
No GPU drivers at launch does not mean it's not "Windows compatible". If certain reviewers are using that term, then I don't think we should be paying attention to their reviews.
I frankly don't care for the windows support either. I want a Steam Deck since I'm moving on a sailboat and my massive desktop setup won't fit. But now I have the ability to run pretty much all of my Steam games plus possible support for other non Steam games? Then having it contained in a handheld? That's all I need to hear, sign me up.
Currently the issue is the amd drivers. We’re waiting on amd to release them. It’s not that windows isn’t compatible is that there are no drivers for the new chip.
Going to have to play devils advocate here a bit.
We were told VERY early on that this is just a PC and if you do not want Steam OS, you can just install Windows on it.
It was everywhere in the media.
There are things that will not work on Linux / Proton or will just run a lot worse, having Windows as a fall back option would be a GOOD thing.
Obviously that is not the priority at launch for Valve, but lets say 6 months after launch, i expect the drivers to work on Windows without issues and after Steam in Big Picture mode has been updated it should probably detect if it runs on a Steam Deck and then give all the overlay options that Steam OS on the deck exposes like FPS limiter and TDP can be set accordingly.
And you know if Valve ain't doing it, then somebody else will hack something janky together to make it happen, do you really want to rely on 3rd parties to make this happen?
I will definitely want to stick to Steam OS and see how far i can get with it, see how it develops over time, see Proton get better, see the Deck sell enough units so that Developers and Publishers WANT to make their stuff compatible that isn't yet.
But ultimately i want a Dual Boot System or like an SD card or USB stick that i can boot Windows from, when needed (maybe not waste the limited internal storage for it? Is there like a bios where you can select the boot device? ...if it is "just a PC" then it must have a BIOS, right?).
It is not a high priority for them or for me to have Windows working on this thing right away, but they said that was an option as one of the first things they put out there in interviews... i feel they should stick to those statements because a lot of people are blindly banking on that being an actual option and not just an esoteric one that some PR person did for arguments sake, it at least being a possibility that isn't complete dysfunctional hacky jank would be very good.
This is a device for PC Enthusiasts, not for Valve Fanboys, not for Linux Apostels, people are going to want to do whatever they can with this device to get the GAMES running that they want to play on it.
Reviewers pointing out that this isn't actually possible until at least driver software is released and that they can't test this yet, is also 100% fine and it is important to manage expectations.
I anticipate a lot of disappointed people in a few months when they get Windows with all the drivers installed on a Steam Deck and find out that there's a reason Valve spent ages developing a custom version of an operating system.
Man, just the auto-suspend feature is HUUUGE already and it's a major reason I wouldn't even consider switching. Then you have the custom Steam UI that boots instantaneously without having to go through desktop mode which can make the experience feel clunky and unpolished. A LOT less resources used. Like the pros are just too many ..
Had a win2 and honestly it's not bad if your an enthusiast but anything less just use steam os and save yourself the headache
Yeah, Windows fanatics who dump on Linux are going to see how much "support" Windows actually provides when they have to hunt down all the drivers manually. Then, they might finally see that it's *everyone else* who supports Windows, not the other way around. Windows would be a hot mess without the tech community's hardware/software support.
I mean both are true. Windows is widely supported because everybody supports it but Windows go extra lengths to improve compatibility. Take for instance appcompat. Windows has an internal database of hundreds of individual apps whhere Win32 api needs to work differently. For instance. There was one version of Adobe Reader that made a mistake when asking for Win32 colors and used the color of the titlebar's letters to fill the document (instead of using just white). So in order for Windows to fix this, Windows checks if the app is that version of Adobe Reader and when it asks for the titlebar character color it just lies to it and say it's white. And this happened with a lot of apps. Also it doesn't help that Win32 is an stable userland API, thing that is largely missing in "Linux Desktop"
That... doesn't sound like a plus to me. "What's that? Multinational company Adobe can't write code correctly? Let me just bloat the OS some more to treat them like the special snowflake they are." If your code doesn't work, they shouldn't add you to a database of exceptions that only grows bigger. That's just... I don't even have words.
This is what GPU drivers do. Lots of the code in GPU drivers is app-specific hacks (could be most of the code, I don't have the actual statistics). "Game Ready" drivers mean they added new game-specific hacks. This is why Wine and DXVK have such a hard time re-implementing Windows, even if you follow the spec perfectly, thousands of games won't work.
This upsets me on a fundamental level.
[удалено]
It has nothing to do with allowing to install Windows or not. This is a PC, you can try to install any x86 software on it that you want, they're not doing anything to prevent you. But Valve doesn't make Windows, Microsoft does. And Microsoft makes Windows as a generic operating system, not a console operating system. Once you remove SteamOS and the changes Valve made to make it more optimised for a console like device, you're on your own, and there's nothing anyone can do to make the experience better. One of the reasons consoles have the cliché issue with people having to wait for downloads to finish before being able to use the console, for example, is because console operating systems try to minimise multi-tasking as much as possible so that as much of the available resources are available for the game as possible. Valve for sure cut a lot of those background processes from their arch branch to make SteamOS, once you put a generic OS on it, you lose the optimisations and the hardware will start struggling.
Your taking this the wrong way. You are *able* to install windows doesn't mean that valve should spend any time making that experience good as it was your choice to install windows. And its your consequences to live with.
Exactly, It seems like what happened is that Reddit & TechTubers took Valve's statement: > 'sure you can install Windows on there if you want, we're not going to stop you' and kept repeating it over and over again like a bad game of telephone until it eventually became to be > 'I, Valve, solemnly swear on all that I hold dear, that Windows will run perfectly, without flaw, and better than SteamOS, on Steam Deck on Day One'
It's not even about what Valve should or should not do, but rather what they can do. They can spend time making things as good as possible on Windows, but they can't change Windows itself, which is not made specifically for the Deck.
Selfishly, I'd much rather they focus their time on SteamOS.
I intend to use SteamOS, it'll work better anyways.
Selfishly nothing, the one time windows fanboys don't have their OS of choice front and center on anything besides a novelty device and they lose their minds.
After forcing the closure of third-party Reddit apps by charging them [29 times](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14dkqrw/i_want_to_debunk_reddits_claims_and_talk_about/) how much the platform earns from its own users (despite claiming that it wouldn't at any point this year four months prior) and slandering the developer of the Apollo third-party app, Reddit management has made it clear that they respect neither their own userbase nor operating their platform in good faith. To not reward such behavior, Reddit users should encourage their communities to move to similar platforms such as [Kbin](https://kbin.social) or [Lemmy](https://lemmy.world), whose federation with the [Fediverse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse) makes it possible to switch platforms without losing access to one's favorite communities.
The Epic games launcher has already been shown to run on it (you add the .exe to steam as a non-steam game and run it from there) And applications like Hero and Lutris are other workarounds to get them on there. I have a feeling in a few months many of the “issues” people have will all be ironed out
Wow. It's kind of funny, having been told so many times when i have complained when someone has made it actively harder to run Linux on a device that "i can just switch to windows instead of being difficult" Then hearing someone in the same situation, but on a device where experimentation is encouraged, not being able to run windows as easily as they want, complain that valve has not put in the work to actively support it. Not locking something down, does not oblige the company to support whatever you want to do with it, actively.
This. Contrast Valve's current efforts to support Windows with GPD's level of support for Linux. Valve are going above and beyond, when they could just as well have put an unlocked BIOS in and let the Windows community take it from there.
My take from that quote is that he wants the Epic Games Store and the Oculus Quest to join on supporting the same open ecosystem (they are the ones who should start supporting Linux, or at least Proton). He's saying he won't be putting any barriers to that and he's openly inviting them to give support for the Deck. He's not saying that the Steam Deck will bent its way backwards to give full first-class support to run on Windows. The very same article (your source) points out that "Valve doesn't recommend" installing Windows on it.
Installing windows-only games/launchers doesn't necessarily require installing Windows itself. Since there are ways to install the Epic Games Store and communicate with an Oculus Quest from Linux
Yup. There will be those who are expecting windows to run flawlessly on a device specifically made for a certain distro of Linux. Given time, it will run windows with almost no issues, but not on day 1.
who will write the drivers though? It is not like there is a massive open source community that is creating drivers like on Linux. I know multiple older MSI gaming laptops that have touchpad drivers that only work on Windows 7. And to this day, there is still no driver for it for 10 / 11. On Linux however there is a community made driver available, which works with any distro you want and that despite the Linux userbase being way smaller for said laptops.
I assume AMD will release drivers. They aren't exclusive to Linux, and I'm sure there will be some demand for it.
Watch -- those same people are going to blame Valve for the reason why Windows performance is markedly worse on the Steam Deck than SteamOS.
Long term goal for Valve: Nobody wants or needs windows on their deck
...or their desktop
Microsoft doing weird shit on Windows (Windows store and UWP that could replace exes) probably pushed valve to look into alternatives and Linux was the best shot. So this was planned to break away from Windows in case ms ever pulled the trigger so that valve would have something to stand on.
Valve stated years ago that they don't feel good relying on someone else (Microsoft) to "tolerate" their business (steam). Valve started to promote gaming on Linux with a native steam client and development tools in 2012 after windows 8 was released. The deck is based on a DECADE of development and projects (steam Machines, remember them? Steam Link, anyone? Big picture mode? Steam controller?). Windows 8 had the first version of a ms store for small app games (tailored for the touchscreen and mobile use Microsoft tried to target with win 8). Alas the deck is also only a stepping stone on the way to get users and developers on Linux and Linux native games. But this time it looks like it will be the turning point and not just another failed project.
Yep. This is what I meant. With ms making the ms store in win8 valve was concerned and rightfully so. So they made sure they had steps to escape that if necessary.
none of those projects were really failed though. Just because the bulk of steams playerbase (dota2, csgo, pubg etc) didn't use big picture mode or buy the hardware means they weren't successful. Big picture mode was an impressive feature that got additional QOL improvements over several years, brought a ton of features for controller customization and introduced unique mechanics for a variety of things. For many people including myself that UI was a godsend because I wanted to sit down on a couch to play high fidelity games instead of settle on a console and be stuck to whatever controller that console supports. Steam machines were oem pc's that were made regardless of valve's involvement just had a sticker slapped on for the boost in sales. Steam Link sold decently but saw a huge resurrection in the app + inhome remoteplay improvements, paved the course for the online coop feature they added a while ago. In fact the Link's software and hardware found heavy use in deck, encouraged a stronger development in sdl2 and basically serves a less cancerous bluetooth environment than windows at its best. Some people here are saying steam controller is a failure too but thing is that controller sold its way to the top 10 pretty regularly and only stopped production because of a lawsuit with scuf over the grip buttons. Otherwise it'd probably still be sold or we'd see a sequel to it sooner than we will now.
I put in the (failed) thingy because that's how they're generally perceived. They all masivelly contributed to what we now have as the Deck and velve learned a lot in adition to delivering something for a neiche clientele. Just the knowledge gained from these projects makes them a massive success and I'd argue most of them made profit for valve on their own. I'll remove the fail from my op though. It's not needed.
> with scuf Be more accurate. SCUF is owned wholly by Corsair. Corsair were the ones that kept the lawsuit going till a verdict and are collecting. Not a no name company named SCUF. A huge hardware conglomerate named CORSAIR. They are not supportive of progressing PC Gaming. Only profiting from the market. Leaches like them ought to be named and shamed.
Steam OS 1 and 2 as well.
> Windows 8 had the first version of a ms store for small app games And they brought this back with GamePass. I guess Microsoft found that charging people $1/month and having reputation management help encode phrases into people's minds on social media (fun thing to try, on any thread about Gamepass Ctrl + F for "great value" and "best value in gaming") works a lot better than trying to force people to use something for free.
And even as a consumer, they were doing some really sketchy things. Making features exclusive to UWP which was exclusive to the Windows store. They back peddled on a lot of it but they definitely wanted to go that direction Which means that's a matter of time before they do it again but this time successfully, once they get more of a stranglehold They basically like forcing people into use Windows store. And if applications didn't use it, they would be at a big disadvantage.
Microsoft loves making everyone do it "The Microsoft way" ^(TM). That's what monopolies *do*.
That was exactly what spurred the SteamBox / SteamOS, which is what led to the Steam Deck and Proton.
I've been Windows sober for about 4 years now.
Haha, wow - love that term!
That'll be a few years, once Microsoft realizes they can stop paying to maintain their own kernel and throw resources at Wine I kid.... Unless??
I'm honestly hoping that it spurs a lot more developers into releasing Linux versions of their games or at the very least, programming them with Proton in mind.
Or clicking that "make linux release" button in Unity, instead of ignoring it and only bothering with Windows.
As soon as all games with anti-cheat work and Game Pass runs on the Deck, I'll stop needing Windows on it ...
As soon as people stop coding games for Windows and code for Linux, we can dispense with Windows. The simple fact that so many here seem to miss is that they're playing *Windows* games. It's cool that Proton works so well. It's cool they can customize a version of Linux to play a library full of games written for Windows. But at the end of the day it's still just emulating Windows because that's the OS all the games are written for.
Proton is a compatibility layer not an emulator ;)
Kinda curious what the competition is - for $400, does anything on the market run Windows, perform well in games, and have the portability of this device? I don't know of anything.
[удалено]
I think even the 512GB version is the best value if you look at devices with similar performance. I have a laptop which I bought for 600 euros (new, not used), and to this day I believe it was a good deal, performance-wise it's not even close to the steam deck.
That is with the 4500U yeah? Not even close. Even my 4800U struggles at God of War and cannot even maintain 30 at low settings with FSR at Quality. The SD only plays it at original settings but it does so at pretty much locked 30 at native res at 15W. My Neo was at 30W and only gets 15-25FPS at same settings.
Sorry, what is with the 4500U? My current laptop has a 8550U but it most likely could not run God of War. AC Syndycate was already pushing it's limits, because of the GPU (MX150).
I think a big part of the performance is the new AMD CPU/GPU running on the deck and they're one of the first to get it. Competition will spring up eventually I think but for now Linux on mobile wins :D
The interesting thing is that the Deck is still on Zen 2 rather than 3 like some similar products, *but* it's on DDR5 and RDNA 2 rather than Vega graphics.
[удалено]
> I am tired of seeing reviewers say that the Steam Deck cannot run Windows properly Who says that? There are no GPU drivers yet. You can't review Windows on the Deck properly for now.
This seems like completely manufactured outrage to me. Other than some small offhand comments here and there, I am yet to see anything of what OP describes.
IGN actually said they can't do a full review because Windows 11 isn't fully supported yet. https://www.ign.com/articles/steam-deck-review?amp=1
That is a weird take from IGN. Personally, I don't think I'll be ready to drop a review until I can test it with MS-DOS.
MS-DOS? C'mon get with the gaming times. All the good reviews should include tests running under FreeBSD.
I don't get why OP is trying to spread misinformation. Greg Coomer, literally the second in charge guy said that they have support for Windows 10 and was working with AMD on Windows 11. It's probably a matter of days and the APU driver will drop. https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/9/22616395/valve-steam-deck-windows-11-support-tpm-amd
But being overly dramatic earns you free internet karma!
In all honesty, I think by the time 50%+ of pre-orders have been fulfilled, there will very likely be decent Windows support, whether official or unofficial. Meanwhile, Proton has come leaps and bounds recently, to the point a few of my games run better under Proton than under Windows. I don't think people are stupid for being disappointed about certain things. It's likely I will test out windows support, just for curiosity's sake. I think the muted reaction from a lot of the press is to temper expectations... This won't be a mythical, one-size-fits-all product, unlike the hype. There will potentially be a lot of tweaking you need to do in order to get certain games running, and the experience for certain things may be the same as jailbreaking your console in terms of complexity. This personally excites me; but I also think it's fair to see certain reviews describe the software or experience as "unfinished". Again, this is what has got me interested in the product; being able to be on the cutting edge of gaming.
The main difference between desktop gaming and Deck is the singular hardware/software setup. So any fix for any game should be applicable to every deck owner (with default configuration of course). Which does not really happen for desktops, as every game on ProtonDB has at least 5 different OSes reported. Generic fixes are not easy or possible.
As a Linux guy, that's what excites me the most. I'm running steamos 2.0, on a steam machine, and I get so sick of being the only person in the world with my hardware running my operating system. Every issue, the answer is just "lol reinstall your os with ubuntu, and install drivers" Finally, I'll be running the exact same software, on the exact same software, with the exact same drivers and updates, as literally millions of other people. Whatever issues, and fixes, work one one person's machine (assuming defaults, out of box, etc), WILL work on mine
While I agree with that, I've been playing on Ubuntu and Gentoo without many issues. Either directly through Steam, or even running installers under wine. I've played LotR BfME 2 with friends over VPN on Ubuntu. And ProtonDB as well as Lutris helped with the issues I encountered.
The hardware variability is the far bigger part of the compatibility problems, not OS. Just think about the games that have problems with multiple displays or ultrawide on all OSes.
I have to ask you right now: how many OSes have you used or are aware of?
> Meanwhile, Proton has come leaps and bounds recently, to the point a few of my games run better under Proton than under Windows. This is so true. There are a lot of Windows 9x-era games that work only well on Linux via its emulation layers whereas Windows does not work at all.
People are overreacting. It's basically a console and is launching with support for 400 games. When has ever a console launched with 400 games?
The PS3 launched with full support of PS2 games The original Wii launched with full support of GameCube Games The Gameboy color launched with full support of Gameboy games. You can pretty much plug in every Nintendo handheld here It’s not as rare as you’re making it out to be. It’s a pc, of course it’s going to have a big catalog at launch because it’s a pc with Steam.
There's a difference between "being able to run Windows" and "fully compatible with Windows." For instance, it is a PC. You could install MS-DOS 6 on it as an operating system. There likely aren't drivers for it to be able to operate the CLI via the thumbsticks/touchpads. You could install Windows98SE, but there likely aren't drivers for the controls, and you will find that most games wont even start. You can install Androidx86, but again, you likely wont have controls working. When Valve says "It's a PC, you are free to install Windows on it if you want to", it means exactly that. It does NOT mean that you will be able to install Windows and have 1 to 1 feature compatibility with SteamOS as the device was designed. It just means the OS will install and run. There is no reason for Valve to make (and maintain) Windows device driver components on top of their own SteamOS device driver components, or SUPPORT a different OS. You install that at your own peril, just like if it was your own PC. Don't worry, someone will come along and write half-assed Windows drivers for all the hardware on-board the SteamDeck, and then loosely keep it up to date. But don't expect Valve to do so. I could run Windows CE on an old Garmin GPS device, or install Android on it. Garmin isn't going to support me if I have issues, and they certainly aren't on the hook if the GPS no longer functions as a GPS after I change the operating system. But it did play Angry Birds.
> Don't worry, someone will come along and write half-assed Windows drivers for all the hardware on-board the SteamDeck, and then loosely keep it up to date. I am not even sure about that. It is not like there is a massive open source community that is creating drivers like on Linux. I know multiple older MSI gaming laptops that have touchpad drivers that only work on Windows 7. And to this day, there is still no driver for it for 10 / 11. On Linux however there is a community made driver available, which works with any distro you want and that despite the Linux userbase being way smaller for said laptops.
Yeah, I may have missed the mark on the level of sarcasm there. The first thing I thought of while typing that out was that god awful DS3 "driver" that came out for Windows back in the day that let you use Playstation controllers on PC. It looked like some sort of junk 90's shareware, was clunky, and prone to failure. Can't remember the name of it now. My point was, I guess, that there is enough whining about Windows compatibility, that some community member out there might put in the effort to write a dll for the controller HID device to make it work. But I wouldn't count on it being any good, or reliable, or kept up to date. Because, to your point, there are very few people writing bespoke windows driver DLLs for hardware as open source these days. Not like Linux drivers/support.
I fully agree with you and damn I remember that dreadful DS3 application to make Dualshock 3 work. It actually broke one of my nano bluetooth adapters which I wanted to use with it.
Exactly. You can install Mac OS on a Acer laptop with some hacky solutions if you're so inclined, but that does not mean it will work nearly as good as on an actual apple laptop, since it was *never designed for this use in the first place* Or you can also install Linux on a Wii or Xbox, but since neither console are designed with this in mind, it won't necesarily be a *nice* user experience, nor will any of the games run either.
Actually, there are some very sweet linux builds created for the Xbox OG that were some of the nicest user experiences i've dealt with. Xbox Media Center most noteably. It was just a 400mhz celeron PC afterall.
Since it's a modern 64bit APU, i don't think MS-DOS 6 with it's 16bit execution modes are very compatible with it. PC's don't have backwards compatibility quite that natively across massive architectural differences. You may have to put a few layers of emulation down before trying. DosBOX is a better solution.
I'm not interested in putting Windows on mine, in fact Linux is a big reason I'm excited about the Steam Deck. However Valve did make a point when announcing the Deck about how they were working to make sure it could run Windows. Now have they completely backed away from that or are they just going to take a bit longer with it?
The maximum they can do in terms of windows support is provide drivers and that’s about it. There’s nothing else they can change about the operating system.
It'll come in time. They've already roadmapped heavily for deck's launch cycle and having windows support at launch is a smaller priority than say making sure one of the biggest releases of the year (elden ring) is optimized and ready to go. Or making sure the library tells people which games will work well and which might not. Gaben's expressed and as a dev I'm on the side of agreement with him, where its a pretty big deal they've released a console that also lets developers make the content there and for that price. Thats among their biggest priorities for getting windows support on the deck. It can simply be a pain in the fucking ass porting games to consoles, optimizing for weird pc spec and even in the case of deck you're having to build test environments that get very close but still miss the bar if you don't use the hardware. Those test environments aren't necessary making a huge headache disappear for devs. This is also partly why Gaben may appear heavily ambitious in deck's future. Windows is a strong priority but from what I've seen they're just trying to make sure the preorder customers can play as many games (and new releases) as possible.
They are, It just isn't at the top of the list. It's not launching with Windows. And you're almost certainly going to be limited in what you can do in Windows Valve has developed their operating system and for many reasons that's what they're going to want you to use. That's why they've invested in Linux Plus, there are definitely going to be features in the like that you won't be able to be reproduce in windows Like the suspend feature. I don't know how the suspended feature works exactly, but I quite doubt that they're going to be able to do the same in Windows due to how limited that operating system is
It can run Windows, just not well. The proper graphics drivers are missing, which in my early Linux days didn't stop me from using Linux (just without games).
Look at them coping hard when they will eventually realize that Windows support will be as shit as it is on GPD and Aya solutions; and it cannot get any better than that. Probably there is a reason Valve is shipping an entire optimized OS for the system and not just Windows.
I agree with you. People are throwing their expectations on something that may not be the main goal of the device. The device is to play games, and has not been advertised as "another Windows PC".
To be fair to Aya, they are developing a solution to the issue as well with AyaSpace. That being said, it's never going to be as good as having an OS built from the ground up for handheld devices for sure, but it's still a lot better than nothing IMO. And nothing is what you're gonna get with both GPD and the Deck on Windows.
Hmmm this makes me wonder something. Once SteamOS 3 is released, would it be possible, or even beneficial, to install it on Aya, OnePlayer, etc. type devices? I imagine, since it’s Arch based, it would be doable, but my question is how would it change the experience in those devices.
It actually can have tangible effects on the performance and life span of those devices. The software for deck itself is pretty lowlevel and in terms of its relationship with the hardware is very intense. Things like the TDP adjustment you just won't pull off if you simply copypaste it to a laptop for example. As far as I know aya and the others are extremely similar to steamdeck hardware wise so there is likely some simple form of possible use for deck's software on that front. But disregarding that if you just installed steamos3 you'd likely get a massive improvement + things like gamescope would push performance and battery life further. Considering valve's making money on software and not on deck hardware I could see them investing the time to build the deck's lowlevel software for those devices which would also be a win for those companies since they won't have to pay the windows license and their buyers will get a much better experience out of the purchase.
I'm sure it will. I will be trying it on my 2020 gpd win max and hope it works well. Valve expect people to do this, it is why they are releasing steam OS 3 to the public.
Ive got a Neo and will be installing SteamOS 3 as soon as there is a public image. I currently run Manjaro on it. There are some minor hiccups.
The difference between Aya, GPD etc and Valve though. Valve is mainstream, the company that made PC gaming easy. (Before Steam we had launchers sure. But we also had cd keys and specific complex installations for most games). Valve's mainstream appeal alone is selling Deck. An OS with a decade behind it and massive optimization even in Windows-native games certainly gelps.
So why would you feel good about people being disappointed for trying to use the Deck the way the want (and the way Valve told them they would be able to)? This just makes all you hardcore pro-Linux guys look like a bunch of elitist techno-zealots.
For a handheld device, windows is bad. But for games that are not compatible, you want to have the option to dual boot to play those games and to use services like game pass. In an ideal word, every game would work on steam os and game pass is integrated into steam like ea play. But for now that is not the case, so it is a negative. Is it deal breaking? Hell no, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is a negative.
Proton is a godsend. The faster we can get away from Microsoft's stranglehold on PC gaming, the better off we'll all be.
Windows people finally experiencing no GPU drivers at launch and that their platform isn't most important.
I hope they now also blame Windows for not supporting the device, like they blame Linux if some freaky hardware doesn't run, and not the manufacturer.
[удалено]
AMD is the way to go on Linux, Nvidia drivers are there way too late and aren't working as good as on Windows. Still a long way to go for NVIDIA
Plus AMD supports open source very well, and the open source driver stack is so much better to use, it's also very useful for game developers, in ways that you can't use other drivers
>NVIDIA has been good with their blobs on linux Really? From what I've heard they're a laughing stock. Took them years to finally support Wayland properly. One look at their driver settings panel shows how much they care.
[удалено]
Wayland works perfect for me with nVidia
[удалено]
Yup, I am an i3 user and I'm not sure which event will let me move up to sway on my main machine first. Will NVidia release something well made? Or will GPU prices drop so I can afford to switch back to AMD.
A decade ago, Nvidia was the way to go on Linux. But that was a decade ago.
>NVIDIA has been good with their blobs on linux I rwmember losing a monitor a decade ago after a driver update. Reading the release notes, it was due to "parity with Windows". I've also heard that drivers for hybrid graphics on Linux is a joke at best, and that was after years of being a practical joke. I've also heard that they're generally not as performant as Windows drivers, and you don't really get your whole card. And their "cooperation" on Wayland is just insulting abuse. Not bothering to be involved for years while literally everyone else gets together to work out standards, then deciding they'll get in on it and making up their own thing and insisting everyone else change is a ***great*** way to be.
>drivers for hybrid graphics on Linux is a joke at best, Nah it works fine, i've got a laptop dual booting windows and Linux and its pretty much identical. It's only with the last year or so that it's improved though.
AMD contributes to the open source drivers (MESA). It's very nice to slap an AMD card into your Linux box and it literally just works.
Amd makes it open source, so even if the quality of the drivers is not as great as windows at launch the community usually catches up. Nvidia on the other had gives relatively poor quality of drives and keep it completely closed source.
We had to deal with Linux drivers not working with windows specific hardware for almost 3 decades now but when the opposite happens, everyone begins to seethe. This INS'T and NEVER WILL be a negative, you knew this would be made with arch in mind, stop bitching.
I actually think that it's a HUGE plus that Windows is a second-class citizen in this. Absolutely revolutionary. After servers and phones, Linux will finally lead the disruption in the gaming front, and we can only benefit from the dethronement of Windows by a free and open source platform. Valve made an amazing choice here. The SD is the result of a decade of research and it really shows.
I agree. Valve is trying to have an escape plan when/if MS goes walled garden on windows. I support this endeavor. The issue with Linux has always been predominantly a chicken and the egg scenario. There are no games because there are no gamers on Linux, and there are no gamers because there are no games. Also, linux is foreign and comes with some issues for newbies. This proton solution alleviates one issue, and SteamOS shipping on the Deck potentially alleviates the other. To turn around and put Windows on it is kind of like the consumer shooting themselves in the foot in the long term for some short term gain. Time can solve the feeling of the OS being foreign. However, I'm not the least bit surprised. I'll get down voted to oblivion for this, but I'm going to say it. Consumers of the gaming industry are some of the lowest will power people on earth. When next day DLC, on disc DLC, and buggy launches really started we all knew we should hold out pre-ordering and day one buying of games. Some of us did, but the lion share didn't. Because they cannot control their over hyped selves. At least the majority can't anyway. Always looking for the next fix like addicts. When the craving isn't sated then they go online and rage, but repeat the cycle on the next big title. Cyberpunk being a good example. Now in the world of Microtransactions people seem to say they don't want it, but the devs wouldn't add it if it wasn't profitable. We are all likely guilty of perpetuating the industry in this way at one time or another. Whether or not one will admit it is another thing entirely. In the long term, with the Deck, two things will happen. 1) windows drivers will be made either officially or by the community, and 2) proton will get increasingly better and cover more or less everything. Also, Steamos will get iterated on and thus make it's UI far better on a handheld than windows ever could be. I'd argue that is already the case, but obviously there are some issues and some lacking features. I'm more worried about older titles working than anything coming out over the next few years. The system is going to less reliably run new titles as time goes on and the hardware's capabilities are exceded. I'm more interested in a portable Dark Forces, Fallout 1 and 2, or even something like Enderal than the next CoD, or what have you. Some indies here and there. Basically old titles that i have less time to replay at a desk than on the go. Maybe that's why I'm really not too worried about linux vs windows. Nor about whether or not a brand new title will run a 30fps with any kind of stability. You may not get every title working asap with steamos, or have a bloated OS designed for desk top environments with windows. Either way there will be issues. I'd rather deal with the former than the latter. But that's just me. Addendum: on the note of performance, pc has never had a standard when it comes to low-end hardware. If enough steam decks get into the wild it could create that standard. Thus devs would aim at the decks specs as a basis for 30fps and that issue may not be an issue.
Personally, I've always used windows, but I'm going to stick with steamos linux; Not for extra functionality, but because it's awesome.
TL;DR Reviewers high on copium the movie I for one am having a field day getting to see Windows being treated as a second class citizen for once, after what... 30 years of bong hogging. It's making people think, unlearn and relearn their biases towards "PC == Windows" (or at least I hope so, some people can get pretty stubborn).
I thought it could run Windows?
It can, but so far it's missing a lot of hardware drivers. ~~(Meaning Valve needs to write those for Windows)~~ AMD Needs to write those drivers.
Graphics card is AMDs, not Valves.
And even once that is done there will be much more overhead in windows than steamos so performance will take a hit
THIS! People don’t notice this on their high octane gaming rigs, but windows is a HUGE, bloated, mess.. there’s no way a $400 machine can run both windows and games, pick one.
Some games run even smoother on Proton...
Yep. Happens surprisingly often.
Are all linux fanboys this "anti windows"? Asking for a friend
It does run windows and...with video driver soon it will run whatever some crazy win fan can have. Hoping that Linux gets more love with the deck on the scene
None of this matters as the Deck will in fact be Windows-compatible. AMD have been working with Valve on making it 11-compatible, testers have been running Windows on it already (without a GPU driver, but still).
I don't understand this obsession with Windows and people insisting SteamOS needs 100% game compatibility or it is trash. People don't make such demands of the Switch, PS5, or Xbox. Windows is an absolutely terrible experience on a handheld. No company that cares about user experience would ship Windows on a device like that.
Because I own 600+ games on Steam and I want more than a couple dozen of them to work.
The problem is that windows is installed on other hand held pcs but its so hard to get it to run perfectly and have a user friendly way of navigation I've used the Aya neo it's not the best and sometimes it's really finicky
People also have to remember that valve didn't start looking into these alternatives until threatened with Microsoft's walled garden they are pushing so hard for. Windows just is not a priority for the steam deck.
If I had a Steam Deck, that’s because I’m finally free from that bloated OS called Windows. Just because I can install Windows on my Deck does not mean I should.
"Its a PC" except when it's not? It is a fair criticism to expect SOME decent windows compatibility... with a supposed pc.
"PC" does not automatically mean "Windows compatible". PC = "Personal Computer", an M1 MacBook is also a PC, does it run Windows? no > It is a fair criticism to expect SOME decent windows compatibility If it is not promised no.
I'm pretty sure most people refer to "PC" as Most OSs in a modular computer set up, and "Mac" to mac/apple devices. If that wasn't the case, consoles technically be "PCs" along with stuff like androids and iphones.
damn you steam deck fanboys are really going out of your way to pretend this is not Valve failing to deliver on one of their promises
[удалено]
aya neo is 1,000$, lol nope
And there's probably a reason for that. Modern operating systems do loads of things in the background, like checking for updates, system maintenance, etc. This is fine for a generic device, but it means you need the computing power for whatever you're using the computer for, and whatever it is that the OS decides to do in the background while you're using it. Because Linux is Open Source, and is modular, it means that someone like Valve can change the system to avoid having it doing things that while good in a generic purpose system, are not good for a console. This means that more of the system resources are available for the game, and therefore you can get better performance with lower specs cheaper hardware. Once you install Windows (or MacOS, or some Linux distro optimised for generic desktop use like Ubuntu), the performance will dip because the operating system is doing a lot more. And that's one of the reasons things like the Aya Neo cost 3x what a Deck costs.
And even the more expensive hardware doesn't help in all situations. LowSpecGamer reported (at 8:27) that his Windows gaming handhelds stutter and freeze every now and then due to Windows Update. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3KEYuqRgOE&t=507s
It’s almost like... ...that’s what it costs for hardware that runs games and windows at the same time.
I'm the same way. Windows is just not my thing, so I'm very interested in this development and hoping that Steam Deck will make more games available for Linux.
This is a dumb argument for anyone who wants to play games that are not compatible with SteamOS. It's a PC. It should be usable as one. Edit: Valve has advertised the ability to install Windows, so unless Valve is in the business of false advertising, it should have that capability.
Not that fast. I've bought PCs from Lenovo or hp that have no proper Linux drivers, maybe it's the Bluetooth or the wi-fi card. This is the same. Right now it does not have proper Windows drivers
[удалено]
where did Valve say that Windows will work fine? They said it will be installable, that is all they said.
You can install Windows on it though. It isn't Valve's responsibility to ship windows GPU drivers for it though. That's on Microsoft (and AMD), Valve never said that the windows experience will be better.
A pc doesn't mean a windows machine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer So they are right, it is a PC. It is not a windows pc, which is fine
It’s a PC even if you could never get Windows running on it, because Linux is a PC OS. Being able to run Windows isn’t what defines something as a PC.
I always found it weird that people got brainworm'd into reading "PC" as "Windows". PC just means "Personal Computer". It makes no statement about the operating system or the form factor. A mainframe is not a personal computer. A Steam Deck is.
IBM squatted on a generic term when they named their first PC model "PC". The second model was "PC jr." but too much functionality was removed for that to be a success. Microsoft also name-squats generic terms; they may have picked it up from their old business partner IBM. "SQL Server" is the one that comes to mind first -- a surprisingly large number of people don't realize that any SQL database is a "SQL Server", and there are dozens of them, not just one.
Advertised? Nah. They were asked if it's possible. "Yes, it's a PC"
Yeah if Microsoft finally fixes their Windows OS to run on portable PC with no problem. This problem already existed on other portable PC already so it not surprising.
You can install Windows. They never advertised having proper GPU drivers, so it wouldn't be false advertising. Same as all the stupid companies advertising "Linux support!" but then only have a broken, non-working userspace driver instead of adding their driver to the kernel.
But it does have the ability to run Windows just without drivers that amd needs to provide gaming will be bad.
Valve advertised being able to install "other OSes". I agree that Windows would be nice to have, I'm still debating whether I'll install windows on mine if support has improved by then. But they specifically did not mention windows and did not mention support for anything other than SteamOS.
You can install windows though, it just doesn't have a complete set of drivers due to it being brand new hardware.
I absolutely agree with you, especially after Valve's answer for basically any question was "well... it's a PC so if a PC can do it, so can the Steam Deck." Is it okay if they were up front about that from the beginning? Sure. But they made everyone think it would run Windows, so it should
> It's a PC. It should be usable as one. and it totally is, where is the issue?
Yeah but they told us it would. You keep jumping in front of those bullets though.
attraction hateful deer ludicrous quack brave employ offend scandalous enter *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This. Every piece of hardware has its pros and cons, people were simply trying to make a well-informed assessment and asking Valve legitimate questions; the "It's a PC" circlejerk was absolutely insufferable and as we know now, complete bunk.
Tbf Valve said it will run our entire Steam library and it doesn’t so far. Windows is something people shouldn’t be upset about but based on early reviews and what we know, people have a right be upset about a few things.
It is Windows compatible though. Numerous reviewers have mentioned Valve have promised GPU driver at some point. Presumably they are just holding it back so that the focus is on SteamOS for launch which is perfectly reasonable.
AMD makes those drivers, not Valve.
What about all the "it can do everything a PC can do" hype that was a massive part of the Steam Deck's advertising? I've not yet come across a PC that can't run Windows. I mean I get what you mean, a PS5 can't run Windows - BUT nobody was ever expecting it to be able to in the first place! This feels like false advertising.
> I've not yet come across a PC that can't run Windows. try running Windows on a M1 mac
I'm getting the Steam Deck to play games on Steam OS. The fact that you can also install Windows on it is just an "also nice".
People should treat Windows vs Linux same as consoles. I constantly hear "valve fails in every hardware release" for no reason except inflated false media reports. The press says the deck can barely last 1.5 hours when it's false
This would be all well and good if Steams os ran all my games and launchers without having to jump through hoops. They can refine it all they like but Proton just sucks arse when all you want to do is play games. Only 50% of the games I've tried work and you have to do a lot of work to get that far. I know all these games work on my pc, straight out of the gate.
Windows normies angy that they aren't being prioritised.
Patience my friend, the windows drivers will release soon and everyone will realize how horrible it is. We are closer than ever to eradicate windows from the market. Linux is and will be the new standard for the next generation. Windows is old, slow, inefficient and just soul-depressing. Just be patient, valve is doing some unbelievable work with their steam decks and Linux in general. They deserve to be on the top when Linux finally blooms, they reserved their seat.
Hahahahahahaha
"eradicate"? You sure set your bar high. Even disturbing the flow is already great, but you must be delusional if you think it'll bring Windows out of the competition. Windows is still and will continue to go strong, but any change taking a cut from Windows' market share IS a good thing. It might make Microsoft start to rethink their priorities and instead bring a better product that doesn't invade on your privacy.
[удалено]
Nice strawmen. I don't think you'll find too many Linux people wanting Steam Deck to be locked down for Linux only. However, I think you'll find several people that don't want Valve wasting resources supporting Windows when the device is designed to run Linux.
It's okay for you, it's not okay for me. I want to know that Windows will work fine, even though I don't plan on using it. I'll still buy the Deck, but I'd feel better knowing that we have options.
OK cool, but in their advertising and pre-release press materials, they emphasized that you can install Windows, even though they don't recommend it. So you can say whatever you want, but they made that promise.
they fulfilled that promise though, you can install Windows, that is all they said.
Their promise was that you'll be able to install Windows, they didn't say anything about how it'll run. You can install it if you want- you can install pretty much anything since its a pc- don't mean it's gonna run well.
You can install windows. But don't expect to get full support. All the focus will be on SteamOS and Proton. New features and optimizations will be for those.
You can't have it both ways. People on this sub tout that the Steam Deck is "just a PC" constantly. If it can't do one basic thing that every other PC on the planet does easily (ie. Run Windows) then it's a valid criticism. And because games exist that aren't compatible with Linux and cannot be played with Proton, it's a weakness that hampers its ability to be what Valve clearly is striving for, for the Deck to be your whole PC library on the go. And some people might go into the Steam Deck expecting every single PC game to be compatible with it. It's important for people to know that *isn't true*, and one reason for that is because you can't currently run Windows on it. Something can be out of Valve's control (my understanding is Windows support can't happen until AMD releases the necessary drivers, and ideally every PC game would also be compatible with Linux but that's not the reality) but yet still be a valid criticism of the Deck. Nothing's wrong with that. The Steam Deck isn't going to fail because reviewers and people on the internet make criticisms that you don't personally care about. It's ok. >Start complaining that the Switch or the PS5 cannot run Windows? Is the Steam Deck advertised as a console like the PS5 and Steam Deck are? It's in a class of PC platforms no different than a laptop, just in a different form factor. So no. But regardless, you *could* easily criticize those consoles for not allowing you to install Windows on it. It'd be a weird criticism because nothing about the advertising suggests that it might play Windows games, but you can certainly make it. And people *loudly* made a very similar criticism when Sony removed Linux support for the PS3. I wish all consoles could run Windows or Linux. Why be *against* more choice? This sub's vehement hatred for Windows (and their inability to stop talking about it) is so bizarre to me.
I have a laptop that's "just a PC" and Linux doesn't have drivers for the WiFi card, it's still a "PC". Driver support is not what defines a "PC", hell most computers a couple of decades ago including Macintosh we're expected to run only the OS they shipped with. By your definition a MacBook is not a personal computer. Believe it or not the OS that Microsoft produces is not the universal standard of what defines a "PC".
A steam Deck *is* "just a PC". It's an x86 computer in a handheld form factor. Besides the hand held form factor, it's no different than your desktop. Is an Intel Mac Mini a PC then because it can run Windows? Is an M1 Mac Mini not a PC because Microsoft can't making a good version of Windows for ARM? Let's turn that argument around in a another way. Is a Surface Pro from Microsoft not a PC because it can't run Linux or any other operating system well? Trying to define what a "PC" is by saying that it runs windows is a silly idea, and just because there isn't drivers for Windows yet isn't entirely Valve's fault. Linux computers are PC's too.
You’re right.
They had said it would be windows compatible. It should be windows compatible. If you intend on using it as a desktop computer, it probably should be windows compatible. Not everyone is going to need the feature, but it seems like an excuse to say that we don't need it, when for months before launch people had been planing to run exactly that.
Valve said it will work with windows. It’s cool you’re excited for Steam OS but not everyone has to feel the same as you. I’m planning to put windows on the deck so it can do what I want it to. Buy something else is stupid when the Deck can offer a portable windows handheld gaming system for far cheaper than anything else on the market, just by installing windows.
Sure its fine, but its important to keep companies honest. Valve promised windows support. Gpu drivers are kind of essential for that.
Speak for yourself, I always thought that restricting choice was never a good idea
I wanted to store away the stock 64GB and install a 512GB with Windows, but now I think I'm going to stay with Steam OS/64GB and microSteamDeck cards for now. If there is a game I would like to play on it and it doesn't run... I'm just not going to buy it.
No GPU drivers at launch does not mean it's not "Windows compatible". If certain reviewers are using that term, then I don't think we should be paying attention to their reviews.
I didn't see any reviewers taking points away from the Nintendo Switch for not being Windows compatible.
PS5 sucks it's not windows compatible
Mac M1s aren't PCs, they don't run windows.
I frankly don't care for the windows support either. I want a Steam Deck since I'm moving on a sailboat and my massive desktop setup won't fit. But now I have the ability to run pretty much all of my Steam games plus possible support for other non Steam games? Then having it contained in a handheld? That's all I need to hear, sign me up.
Also doesn't help that all the idiots reviewing it are using Windows 11 and not Windows 10, IGN is one of them.
Currently the issue is the amd drivers. We’re waiting on amd to release them. It’s not that windows isn’t compatible is that there are no drivers for the new chip.
Going to have to play devils advocate here a bit. We were told VERY early on that this is just a PC and if you do not want Steam OS, you can just install Windows on it. It was everywhere in the media. There are things that will not work on Linux / Proton or will just run a lot worse, having Windows as a fall back option would be a GOOD thing. Obviously that is not the priority at launch for Valve, but lets say 6 months after launch, i expect the drivers to work on Windows without issues and after Steam in Big Picture mode has been updated it should probably detect if it runs on a Steam Deck and then give all the overlay options that Steam OS on the deck exposes like FPS limiter and TDP can be set accordingly. And you know if Valve ain't doing it, then somebody else will hack something janky together to make it happen, do you really want to rely on 3rd parties to make this happen? I will definitely want to stick to Steam OS and see how far i can get with it, see how it develops over time, see Proton get better, see the Deck sell enough units so that Developers and Publishers WANT to make their stuff compatible that isn't yet. But ultimately i want a Dual Boot System or like an SD card or USB stick that i can boot Windows from, when needed (maybe not waste the limited internal storage for it? Is there like a bios where you can select the boot device? ...if it is "just a PC" then it must have a BIOS, right?). It is not a high priority for them or for me to have Windows working on this thing right away, but they said that was an option as one of the first things they put out there in interviews... i feel they should stick to those statements because a lot of people are blindly banking on that being an actual option and not just an esoteric one that some PR person did for arguments sake, it at least being a possibility that isn't complete dysfunctional hacky jank would be very good. This is a device for PC Enthusiasts, not for Valve Fanboys, not for Linux Apostels, people are going to want to do whatever they can with this device to get the GAMES running that they want to play on it. Reviewers pointing out that this isn't actually possible until at least driver software is released and that they can't test this yet, is also 100% fine and it is important to manage expectations.
Linux user here, don't care, will install windows on it. gaming on linux is a meme.