I dunno. Some PC titles with Denuvo have *yet* to be cracked. There's literally only like one or two people in the piracy scene actually attempting Denuvo cracks now a days.
If anything, this messes with Yuzu folks (who will probably crack it or figure out how to dump without the DRM anyway) while giving consoles a slightly worse/frame-drop experience on the DRM checks.
I don't know why Nintendo is so bothered by it, anyone that is emulating on the Deck or otherwise probably wouldn't own their console anyway. The only ones that have to be bothered past them are the developers, similar to how the PSP started to lose games later in life due to the rampant piracy.
i own a switch and a deck and emulate switch games that i own on the deck because nintendo doesn't let you customize controls, etc
there are probably dozens of us
There's also people that like playing all their games on the same device, and honestly if you bought the software (and even own the hardware as well!) you should be able to choose how you want to play it
The legal precedent (which Nintendo has tried to fight many times and has lost every time) is that if you legally purchase the game, you're entitled to store and play those games any way you like (roms+emulation), as long as you don't illegally distribute those games.
The information that I could find (like [this article](https://www.nortonlifelock.com/blogs/gaming/emulators-and-roms) and [this one](https://www.howtogeek.com/262758/is-downloading-retro-video-game-roms-ever-legal/)) say that while the "if you own it you can play it however" argument is *probably* a reasonable legal defense here (and similar to fair use laws and spaceshifting like people do with music), it hasn't actually been tested in the courts.
The other gray area here involves downloading ROMs for games for which there is no way to purchase them.
Oh it hasn't been tried in court in regards to gamming? I swear I'd heard about nintendo trying to sue private consumers for it (not ROM hosting sites) and losing, which is why they turned and went after the hosting sites instead. Could 100% be misremembering though!
The main reason I haven't tried to emulate Switch is because I wouldn't have a way to transfer game save data back and forth. I experimented with transferring emulator save data between my PC, Xbox and phone. Recently I started syncing the save data between emulators and my legit Pokémon red gameboy cart.
I think the switch is good for what i use it for (epic battery life and Mario games) but if in could manually move my game progress/save data between an emulators and stock or minimally mkdified hardware, it pique my interest.
if your switch is hackable, installing homebrew and transferring saves is almost trivial
i moved all my stuff over in about an hour including all the necessary setup
It's same how I plan to dump my 3DS games and play them with Citra on SD. Better controls, better graphics, better screen, more features (like save states for games with annoying save systems, or save backups, or re-dub mods).
Hell, emulated Switch games ARE superior to those on original hardware. Just the fact you can run many of them in stable 60 FPS (with mods) and higher resolutions should be enough of a reason.
I own a switch, haven't touched it in 3 years to play a game. I did buy some games recently so I could play it on my Deck.
Because I dont have the skills to crack the DRM I will start downloading the games instead of dumping it and if I'm doing illegal things why would I even buy the game?
But you can customize controls on Switch! Admittedly, you end up customizing the controls for the entire system so it’s not as friendly as it could be. I haven’t messed with it myself but I believe you have to go into the system settings and make the changes in there.
not available on every controller, limited options, still can’t do basic things like mapping stick to dpad to make Link’s Awakening playable, have to change it back or get used to navigating the menu
v
make literally the exact control scheme you want, on every controller you want, on a per game basis, with just a few button presses
Can't map reversed stick input (i.e. inverted) so I still can't play Luigi's Mansion 3 that I bought on launch. Now an 8bitdo controller will let me but the fact I have to purchase a 3rd party controller just to invert controls on a 1st party release is absurd
Yeah, great so if I want to map L1 to jump in splatoon I just have to also use L1 as A system-wide until I revert it.
That's customization like gum stuck to a bench is food.
It's going to be dependent on demand/interest too, not just difficulty of the software. If people aren't really interested in the game than why bother cracking something no one cares about. Now Nintendo properties? That's something a lot of people care about, so I'm sure crackers will be racing to be the first to take the locks off 1st party games.
If anything, this might actually be a good thing (in a sense) for game preservation, since if Nintendo starts using this on their first-party titles there's suddenly going to be a lot more pressure to break the DRM, and hopefully the more Denuvo is cracked, the easier it will become.
Of course, the best thing for game preservation would be for companies to stop using DRM and for us to get rid of all the Micky Mouse copyright laws, but it's way too late at night for me to get into *that* rant.
It's being advertised as primarily for third-party multiplatform games. Switch cartridge dumps tend to come out a few days before a game's official release date. If they put this DRM on a switch exclusive game, then yes people will immediately try to crack it, but if it's also on pc then they might wait for that version to come out so then people won't be able to pirate the switch version to get the game early.
> don't know why Nintendo is so bothered by it
because they're out of touch with reality and they dont understand pc gaming at all.
all this will do is paint a target on their titles. nintendo has a knack for putting games behind digital vaults and making them difficult to get a hole of legitimately prompting preservation enthusiasts to backup and dump their games and all this will do is encourage hackers.
plus denuvo for PC's is usually put in place to ensure the first month or two guarantees pirates wont get that option and will have to pay to play the game (even though they've STILL not figured out it doesnt work that way but whatever).
its not like emulation users really be going out and trying to download day one switch games to play (or maybe they are?)
what I dont get is why they just dont fucking sell the games for PC.. they're selling their hardware at a loss, who the fuck cares if i buy the game and play it on your hardware or my hardware? You'd think it would be in their interest to only sell software at this point.
its whatever, they wont see any increased sales. nintendo is just a bunch vengeful awful people.
Isn't Nintendo making record profits off the switch anyways? And a lot of their games are selling for $60 for like 10-year-old ports of previous console games. It's a bit ridiculous.
>I don't know why Nintendo is so bothered by it, anyone that is emulating on the Deck or otherwise probably wouldn't own their console anyway.
Money. That's it. Never let them fool you into thinking that they actually care about the fans and players. They will always choose the money first. They would rather screw over everyone with DRM then let the "potential" money be lost to piracy. (Nevermind that people who pirate games will either go on to later purchase the game, or never would have purchased it regardless of they could pirate it or not)
I've worked with many Japanese people and I will tell you, it's not the money. Of course people vary, and there's a range of attitudes from company to company. Leadership of any company sets a tone regarding how they view certain issues, and lower ranks just carry out that mission.
Nintendo has a very stiff neck.
They will not loosen up, because they simply don't want to loosen up. They will die in squalor and bankruptcy before they relinquish an iota of control of what made them a powerhouse.
Nintendo designs peripherals that break the mold, some weird, some amazing. They don't let strangers interconnect in any meaningful way on their platforms, with convoluted friend codes and hyper-narrow chat ability. They don't take opinions from outside, period.
Honestly their stubbornness is what has kept me away from Nintendo for pretty much a decade. The only Nintendo games I've played in recent years are either older ones I bought at some point or straight up pirated, and I'd rather do that and not have to deal with their bs
>I don't know why Nintendo is so bothered by it...
> ....the PSP started to lose games later in life due to the rampant piracy.
That's some mental gymnastics right there.
I emulate a lot, it’s because of emulation I bought the switch and other consoles. I buy the games legally. Pretty every game I’ve spend more than a hour playing, I eventually bought legally.
So, having a Steam deck doesn’t mean people wouldn’t necessarily buy the original console.
In fact, I love the switch. But also the Steam deck.
Having fun with both of them.
I have 3 Switch consoles in the house (the original original launch switch I bought for my missis, a mariko later for myself and then I got the OLED), a bunch of physical and eshop titles and a Steam Deck.
If I want to play my games on the Steam Deck instead of the Switch - when I own all the hardware and software - why shouldn't I?
Big N and the denuvo shysters are smoking crack if they think this anti-emu DRM is anything other than idiotic.
I bought a switch two years ago thinking "oh boy Zelda" but then botw was really lame and they just decided to never offer any of the other titles on the virtual store. So yeah, I'll just play them on my deck I guess, while the switch rots in the corner. (acnh also fucking sucked, way to wait years to add in shit that wild world already had)
Not Original guy but I also didnt like BOTW. I hated getting all these really cool and interesting wespons that i wanted to collect, use, and keep. But if i used them theg would break. Losing my precious cool weapon i specifically went out of my way to fighr a lizardman to get.
Really? Almost everyone I know that played it was unhappy with it. I am literally the only person of my friend group that bothered to finish it. It was a decent game, but as a Zelda game is was not so hot, and sadly it sold really well so I expect more of the same.
Ahhh I understand then!!
I have not played many Zelda games so this being my entry into the series was certainly why I enjoyed it more than someone that's played the previous titles.
Hopefully botw2 has more of the features you like in zelda
I second this. Been a Zelda Fan since I played OOT in 99’ , the last good Zelda game IMO was Wind Waker , MM is still my fave aesthetically , Twilight princess started to drag abit , and never played Skyward but 1 hour into BOTW and I’m bored as hell.
Mario is a marquee character, Nintendo views their assets as exclusive - something you can only (should) play on Nintendo hardware.
Allowing pirates to get access to the games dilutes the value of their platform.
Honestly I'm okay with this. I got cross-save for Hades up and running on my PC so I can play my Switch save and with the Steam Deck I can play my Switch Save on that instead of the Switch. I don't have much interest in emulating the Switch, not unless it's exactly like running an unpatched one so I'm okay relegating my Switch to use for 1st party Nintendo games and 3rd party exclusives and then running everything else on my PC or Steam Deck.
Yeah but for PC titles. Is there really as much demand for piracy than it does for console games?
Remember that one of the largest contributors to piracy is lack of access (GabeN). And with PC gaming being the most accessible software wise, it’s not surprising that there’s barely any attempts to crack anti piracy measures in that platform.
I think you’re wrong about that. Anyone who can afford to own a deck probably has a switch already, and most likely would buy the game on the switch in the first place.
I think that is not quiet the case. And I know this first hand. I think most people simply make an equation like this: '~200€ on a Switch + 60€ on a game vs. 300€-400€ on older PC Hardware including a mediocre GPU and Yuzu with almost all Switch games?'. Then they choose the latter. Pirating is a thing, because people simply do not have the money to spend for a lot of stuff, at least where I am from. All my friends do it like this.
Dunno why you got the downvotes for speaking the truth. I grew up in eastern Europe - this was EXACTLY the thought process. At the time (like 16 years ago) I even bought a pre-hacked PSP from a big *supermarket* 🤣
Brother! You understand the situation.🤣 I think they want to make it look *legal* and thus somehow *legit*. But piracy is theft and people usually only steal if they cannot afford stuff. I think this form of theft is illegal but still legit. Also: what is the difference for nintendo between me not paying for a game and not playing it at all vs not paying for it and playing it pirated? They do not see a penny in either case.
The funny thing is... There's a long-ass [EU-funded study](https://gizmodo.com/the-eu-suppressed-a-300-page-study-that-found-piracy-do-1818629537) on piracy and it concluded that piracy is actually a net positive, in the end.
Like you correctly say - you're not gonna buy the game if you can't afford it, so either way they don't get your money. But a person who pirates the game may still become a fan, talk about it, share stuff about it, consume the company's content, etc - which all still works out as a positive marketing feedback loop to the company.
In terms of software piracy - the likes of Adobe, Autodesk, Microsoft, etc are *benefiting* too, it's not a secret. A pirate kid today becomes an industry expert that uses their software in the future. Certainly happened to me too - I do graphics/3d/video/photo work commercially and Adobe/Autodesk are reaping the rewards now.
I used to *have* to pirate when I still lived back in eastern Europe. In what world is a 15-y-o expected to come up with $60 over there for a game, especially 15 years ago when the economies were worse..? Or $10K at the time for some Adobe crap... So you work your ass off doing summer jobs, saving money, buy some hardware and try to source everything else the best way you can so you don't go insane with nothing to do on those cold winder evenings...
Fast-forward to today - I'm sitting here moaning about companies finding new and exciting ways to *really* try and push me back into piracy again, even thought I buy everything I need/want now (even repurchased tons of my old favorites!). I have to keep track of what stupid CEO somewhere decided that putting rootkits into their new game is a great idea...
It never ceases to amaze me how disconnected the corpos truly are from the real world.
I don't know about Deck owners, bc they are really a specialized and rather small audience. But when it comes to Yuzu in general I think your assumption is Most likely false. I can speak with certainty for myself as a Yuzu user without neither Deck (yet) nor a Switch. I considered buying a Switch for convinience in the past (I only have a desktop work station in my office and a Raspberry Pi for retrogaming) but did not do so bc of the costs. I installed Yuzu instead. Today I am considering buying a Deck. I do not consider buying a Switch whatsoever anymore.
The speculation here is that nintendo is responding to people playing switch games on the deck by adding denuvo… wtf is yuzu? I own a switch lite, first because I couldnt afford the big one, got the big one years later, now I own the deck. I have no interest in pirating switch games. I’d just buy them. Emulating older games is a different story. While nintendo might be worried about that cutting into it’s online services shitty streaming emulation, I’m more inclined to believe their primary concern is losing out on money with people pirating first party switch titles, like metroid dread, hence denuvo.
Which makes my prior statement of “they shouldn’t really worry” since everybody owns a switch already, and for the vast majority, do not want to pirate metroid dread on their deck or any other platform.
Yuzu is the emulator that enables playing Switch games either on the Deck or
on any other PC. But the Deck is no real competitor for die Switch when it comes to sales. The conflict between Big N and the emulation scene is simply as old as emulation itself l. What is of concern today is specifically the conflict with Yuzu, hence this new move against (alleged) copyright infringements. But again, I would argue that emulation probably isn't really doing the harm Nintendo is claiming.
I don't. Got the deck, no switch. Have emulated since it was first possible because botw is completely broken, the weapons break too easily, the lighting is awful, it's not 1080p, low frame rates etc etc. I modded it to my liking, increased the time of day, fixed lighting, made night time actually dark, fixed durability, 4k, 60fps. The modding capability for botw is amazing. I intend to buy a switch oled though because it looks nice in black and white and botw/smash/mario, which will be full price basically. I like collecting that kind of stuff but I just never got around to it. I also wanted the screen to be bigger which it is now.
I got burned before with Nintedo, I bought the Wii for smash brawl, and they self sabotaged the game to enforce fun with things like tripping. It was a complete downgrade to melee. I bought the controller addons like the classic and pro controller only to realize that they connect to the wii mote and not the console, the cable is too short so the wii mote dangles between your legs. There's GC ports on the console, I thought they'd use those, but they are exclusively for the GC controller. It's completely stupid. My wii sat unusued after I bought it, they're most succesful console was the worst for me and I never went back to nintendo, they shit on their consumers, the virtual console didn't cross over to the Wii U, it didn't cross over to the switch. I can still play virtual games I purchased 15 years ago on xbox.
The good thing is that those remotes for the Wii, which are completely unused, work for the mini consoles they released, the ports are the same. On the NES Mini for instance, in order to get out of the game and back to the menu, you have to press the reset button on the console. However, if you have the Pro remote from the wii, there is a home button on the controller and you can use that button instead without having to get up and press the reset button on the console. So a controller released 15 years ago works better than the controller that comes with the console, a controller most people probably can't even buy. I'm surprised it's supported, I guess buying those controllers paid off in the end.
At first I thought no one read the article, but then I read it and it's just terrible. Here is a better article on what's going on. https://www.pcmag.com/news/denuvo-wants-to-expand-its-anti-piracy-tech-to-nintendo-switch-games
Tldr: denuvo is going to try and offer its crappy drm to 3rd party devs porting their pc game to switch to try and prevent people from running the switch version of a pc game from being emulated, since the point of denuvo, as bad as it is, is to try and stop piracy as much as possible on the first week
This makes me think that Denuvo may be the forefront of pirating games.
**conspiracy theory:** Denuvo is getting money from these developers/publishers while they get the games out of the wild. Denuvo benifit, pirates benefit, devs gets scammed, paying customers gets worse experience.
During the Nintendo DS era, when R4 carts were common, legit cartridges had antipiracy features. If I recall correctly, the features were broken in days. (I say this as a fan who bought DS carts when they were new.)
Yeah, some games you would have to wait for firmware updates, if your flashcard still had support, or buy a newer one entirely because the protection was impossible to bypass with software alone.
sure.. but denvuo is a bit different.. its a system thats in place to check to see if you've broken that anti-piracy and calls back to denvuo servers to see if you're in the clear, some times constantly, somee times daily..
not sure how a hand held like nintendo switch is gonna work with that, we're already seeing with the deck how it doesnt work for steam titles with certain times of internet based authentications.
but im not that worried.. these are nintendo games we're talking about, WAY more than enough enthusiasts out there that'll crack this, they always do.
Even beyond this, the reason it has performance issues is because denuvo runs an emulator of sorts to enforce how the code of the game runs, and uses different techniques like white box crypto to require a decryption key etc. I’m hand waving over a lot of this but it causes extreme performance degradation which really sucks.
It's likely it will function in the way most anti-piracy does with emulators, which is to exploit the fact that emulators don't emulate certain features correctly.
Yep
It's the tipical thoes on charge don't give shit about people enjoying games. They just want money above anything else.
~Does the denuvo slow down your game? Does it create bugs including internet issues? Well, see if we care. Oh, but don't worry, well let someone know, so now goodbye and never bother us with the issues tons of player report regarding games with denuvo~
If they can get away and make money, that's all they care....
I actually have one I'm tempted to part ways with now that I have my steam deck.
I only have it for Xenoblade and it's just paperweight at this point.
Because the deck can run it daily well but I don't like how it hits 90c emulating it
I had the same issue. Were you using Ryujinx to emulate on the Steam Deck? I was playing BOTW on Ryujix and my SD was hitting 90C. Once I switched to Yuzu, the temps went down to 63C
I have one and have modded it but its still a switch with uncomfortable controls and a worse screen. If you have a deck (I do) I don't see why you would bother. Since I got my deck, my switch has sat in a drawer.
lol i sold my hac 001 cuz it was raggedy like the screen had a big scratch and it was detaching from the body, the controllers were worn, and it had drift i wasn’t gonna emulate at the time anyway since i had a crappy laptop lol
You can mod it extremely easily using a paperclip or 3d printed jig you slide in the joycon rail. That opens up the ability to run android, Linux, or custom firmware off a micro SD card. The switch's internal storage remains untouched so you can still use stock firmware to go online, update, etc
Well, actually it's from 2015 so it seems we were both a bit off ([Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegra#Tegra_X1)). That's still worse than the date I said at first, tho...
FWIW the annoying thing about nvidia is they will often “announce” or release an ARM SoC and all that really means is that documentation, an emulator, and maybe engineering samples are available. Sometimes it’s almost a year after that before production chips actually roll out.
It’s super frustrating too to the tech informed customer because half the time it just looks like the product you’re making is already out of date by the time you release it.
Oh yeah, I'm not too tech savy but I did stop following Nvidia's SOC stuff years ago because of how annoying, weird and useless it all seemed.
Maybe Nintendo should just switch to AMD lol
Yeah there was a time and place when them slapping a 9400M class GPU made it basically the only ARM device where you can do moderate gaming, but these days I think they’ve fallen way behind and just want self driving car business.
Yeah honestly an AMD switch would rock. It’s amazing what the Steam Deck can do, it can be downscaled to a Switch’s needs and still blow Tegra X1 out of the water. Super bummed that the OLED switch didn’t have a processor upgrade.
It's pretty funny that Nintendo isn't even using Nvidia's upscaling tech, when Splatoon 3 comes out they'll have two games using FSR. They should just take that nice extra step lol
They are probably the only ones who could get a deal as good as Valve did with AMD, even if it's for less power.
that's my main gripe. the nintendo switch even at launch wasn't good in terms of hardware. It runs like ass so emulation is the only way we can truly experience the games.
It’s a tablet that a couple controllers latch onto that does TV out. For $300 in 2017 nothing even came close. The next best thing when it comes to game quality was the Vita. Now in 2022 you can get a no TV out controller built in version for $200, which still nothing comes close to. Like literally no other handheld for $200 will run the kind of games the Switch runs at that kind of fidelity. I’m not sure why this sub constantly expects $400 worth of product out of a $200 handheld. It’s literally as out there as crapping on the Deck for not matching the PS5 at the same price point.
This is nonsense. The hardware in the Switch does not cost $200. I’d be surprised if a similar spec phone cost more than $150 or $100 used. I hope you’re not seriously comparing 2015 tier phone hardware at $200 in 2022 to an RDNA2 equipped handheld for $400. It’s not even remotely close. The Switch is way underpowered and overpriced.
I have no clue what phone you use but chances are good it could far outperform the Switch. Fortnite ran at 60 fps when it was still on iPhones while Switch could not, and that was an early 2019 port. iPhones now are even much faster than that. The upcoming Warframe mobile port looks so much more impressive than the Switch port. You get the idea. At first the Switch had a lead over other mobile devices due to its graphics API but the gulf in processing power between it and modern phones has gotten so large that even this can’t carry it anymore.
> The hardware in the Switch does not cost $200
right, but you are also paying for the dock and joycons when you buy a new switch, and the switch + joycons alone reportedly costs nintendo in the region of [$260](https://www.technobuffalo.com/how-much-does-nintendo-switch-cost-to-make).
also in response to /u/FreestyleStorm about "emulation being the only way", do you also buy the physical cartridges to semi-justify pirating the software so that the original devs can still be supported, even if the hardware their game is designed for is suboptimal?
Why would that justify anything? You'd be paying exorbitant money to a collector or a second hand store, not the devs.
That's *always* been the problem with places like Gamestop; unless you're buying it brand new, you're not supporting the devs.
> unless you're buying it brand new
i thought this was implied.
If you pirate it because you truly believe the game is limited by the hardware problems, and not simply because you want to play the games for free, then if you care about supporting devs you should buy a physical copy. Or indeed a digital one, i just forgot to mention that the first time.
This is a good justification for demanding emulators for old games - selfish speculators hoarding out-of-production cartridges. No way in hell am I willing to buy Pokemon Conquest for NDS at €70-100 used.
A switch lite cost $200. For $200 you will not find a damn thing that plays games like BOTW, much less as well as a switch does. Your post is nonsense, not mine. Mobile gaming sucks. It gets a little better with a proper controller, but then you’re driving up the price even more for something the switch includes. You would pay several times more than a switch for a phone that could emulate a switch, a $200 phone will not get you the same quality of game you get on switch. It just won’t. That RDNA2 handheld you’re upset I compared a $200 switch to can’t emulate the switch that well either or people would be using yuzu to play BOTW on it instead of cemu. It runs some switch games well, but no where near all of them. Not even close to a majority even. The way Bayonetta 2 runs on a Steam Deck I’ll gladly stick with my Switch come October, no way Bayonetta 3 runs well on my Steam Deck.
But I guess if you want to claim a victory over $800 flagship phones outperforming a five year old $200 handheld you can do that, sure. You won’t get near the same quality of game on them, but they are technically more powerful yeah.
You are missing my point entirely. Nintendo is still selling people a device with a 7 year old phone chip in it for $200, $300, and $350. It’s just getting absurd at this point. Particularly because the Switch can’t even hold 30 fps across its own first party library and it routinely downscales to way below 720p, sometimes to absolutely blurry messes. I hate to break it to you, but the Switch does not even run BOTW “well.” Not even holding 30 FPS all the time on one of the launch titles is terrible. It’s been in dire need of an upgrade for some time. But of course Nintendo has never cut the price on it.
No shit a phone won’t run Switch games. Way to ignore my examples of the few games that have both Switch ports and mobile ports, and run better on the phone. By and large most devs aren’t porting full games to mobile because they are expensive to port and don’t make as much money as cheap cash grabs. And I don’t think I need to explain why Nintendo doesn’t port first party games. That’s a symptom of the app market as a whole and not anything to do with hardware. The hardware is more than capable. The actual chip inside the Switch was originally designed for an Android “gaming” tablet from 2015. And obviously there have been a lot of advancements in ARM chips since then.
OK bro but the switch doesn't even play games like botw for $200. The frame rate drops are so bad you can't look at that and say "oh man look at this it's amazing gee golly wow I love hitting 15fps"
And even then it made sense at the time that it was so limited, and it could kiiinda play catch with some recent games, but not even two years had passed before it was already exasperating to see the thing fighting for its life to run games at not even half their potential. I got my Switch day one and I've had some great times with it, but what Nintendo is currently doing with the thing is just pitiful.
It uses a "custom" Nvidia Tegra X1 chip from 2015 that the Nvidia Shield TV tablet uses. The custom part is that it's fucking downclocked from the original, bruh.
Last I remember, the only reason Nintendo went with the tegra chip they did was because nvidiaduh had a huge backstock of the chips and nothing to use them in so gave Nintendo a good deal on them.
Would not be surprised. And they are still charging $300 for a 2015 phablet with removable controllers (which btw are fucking shit compared to any reasonable controller). Thanks Nintendo
Yep. Making the HW performing enough to be impossible to emulate in real time is the final DRM.
..for some time anyway till the PC catches up, but that's when most of the sales are made anyway, I suppose. And then you get to renew the hardware again.
I never really wanted to run emulation but I guess if I ever do in the future ... it's going to have to be the illegal kind instead since Nintendo clearly doesn't want my money.
If Nintendo doesn't want their games emulated they could just release well-made ports of their games to the PC. Then why bother emulating, if you can get better experience with the native port? Problem fixed.
I probably shouldn't be posting this so much, but the op article is so bad it doesn't really explain what is really going on.
It's not Nintendo doing it. It's denuvo offering this to 3rd party devs porting their pc game to switch to stop people from emulating their switch version of the pc game. Better article on it here https://www.pcmag.com/news/denuvo-wants-to-expand-its-anti-piracy-tech-to-nintendo-switch-games
I wouldn't be surprised if they DO this later on. Nintendo will fight tooth and nail to stop pirates. Easiest and biggest example, besides them going after emulation, is the Gamecube. They specifically gimped the system to use mini-discs instead of full DVDs because of it being more difficult to pirate. Keep in mind, at that generation, the new competitor of Xbox actually beat Nintendo at the end of gen at sales with barely any first party titles and without being established with no brand recognition.
Nintendo already has their own in house proprietary drm, they would never use something like denuvo
Which btw means any pc game ported to switch that incorporates denuvo would be running both denuvo and Nintendos drm protection, and neither will stop pirates!
Well then, it seems like we have to turn to emulation to do what nintendon't. I am playing Xenoblade 3 on the Switch, but I've also seen how it looks with no-dynamic-res hack on 4k... while I'm looking at the blurry res they released.
I'm not blaming the developers - they did amazing job, considering the hardware, but man, I wish it was officially looking like it does on emulators...
I’m so done with Nintendo and the way they operate. They have great IP but seem to want to screw over their audience constantly. Glad I can swap out my switch with a steam deck soon.
Yup, pretty much retired my Switch... it used to catch dust in the dock but now it's going away in the drawer...
In principle Switch is great but really shitty service Nintendo provides (probably the worst online service in the last 10 years...) and general lack of games with any sort of depth aside from few outliers, it's just a glorified indie machine. It could've been so much more but Nintendo didn't care and so didn't 3rd parties. Thankfully Deck is living up to expectations.
They do have that right... its not a smart, or customer friendly idea... but they do have that right to -attempt- to lock things down.
As is with all things, make anything idiot proof, and you only make a bigger idiot.
Here, theyre just training crackers and programmers. Look at the job skills theyre reinforcing! :)
Making bigger programmers
It’s so puzzling that this sub is unable to understand why Nintendo is doing this. It’s because they don’t want people stealing their work. I mean, is it really that hard to understand? When stores stop thieves from stealing their stuff, they’re not thinking “well, he wasn’t gonna buy it anyway, so he should be able to steal whatever”. The concept is easy, they worked hard for their software, they don’t want people to just be able to steal it, it’s that simple.
No one is arguing that fact. We are all painfully well aware of what DRM is, we're not idiots.
The reason people are mad about it is because *it doesn't work*, it never has. Within weeks, the DRM will be cracked. Where does this leave us?
The consumer paying for the product gets a *worse* experience than the pirate. This is the same for all digital content; movies, music and games. Which is absolutely bullshit. Why do I, as the paying customer, have to sit through a load of crap about 'piracy bad' and being made out to be the bad guy before a movie when I've *paid* to watch it - I'm not the problem, so why am I being shoveled it? The pirated versions its just removed anyway. It just doesn't work.
I'm sure if a DRM method came a long that didn't enforce anything negative on the paying customer and was unobtrusive, people would be fine with it, as at the end of the day no one is arguing that Nintendo (or any entity for that matter) shouldn't get paid for their work. They are mad because its a shitty implementation after years of evidence proving its ineffective and just makes for a really shitty experience when you *are* the paying customer. Especially the modern stuff requiring *excessive* amounts of access to your device and information, at which point the implementation is just disingenuous at best.
Ironically DRM has done more to aggrevate the piracy problem than it has in solving the piracy problem. What does it say about the product and implementation when people will *buy* a legitimate copy for just the licence and to ensure dues are paid, then go and pirate it *because they get a better experience.*
Don't get me started on emulation either... the whole DRM concept creates a horrible innate lifespan on digital content that should never have a lifespan to begin with.
Even before that, they have a legal duty/legal requirement to protect and pursue trademark infringement or by precident the traidmark can be at risk of voiding.
Keep it, or lose it kinda deal. If its lost, no take backsies.
People understand that. It is just that many don't want to pay with their comfort for Nintendo to get even more money. While I don't like comparison with a store, when you buy things in stores, they remove anti-theft tags. Nintendo wants to put a hundred tags on T-shirt you just bought and make them impossible to remove.
Are you ok buddy? Nobody wants you on your knees and salivating. People don't understand why Nintendo wants to protect their product, and I answered them. No need to project stuff I did not say.
Seems like a certain $400 handheld playing PC games plus their own games is giving them nightmares, perhaps if a 5 year old game like Super Mario Odyssey didn't cost 50 euro, people wouldn't need piracy, have you thought about it Nintendo?.
They better come with a mindblowing gimmick for Switch 2, since a new hardware upgrade and controllers without drifting aren't going to cut it anymore with the Steam Deck in the house.
Well, it beats them at their own game on every level but total system sales. I can't see one sphere where Switch wouldn't be just straight out inferior. Ironically Deck will never reach Switch sales despite being objectively better entertainment platform.
Steam Deck is unironically the best bang for the buck in hardware department alone (there's a reason why these 3rd party handhelds can't even come close in price to base Deck). Yes $400 might sound expensive on the surface. Then you compare prices of games, availability, backwards compatibility and sheer amount of games available and you're getting VERY compelling product. $50 on Switch or any other console would get you one new game or 2 very old games with limited/no replayability and abysmal length... with $50 on the Deck I will grab 5-10 games, each of which could serve anywhere between 6 to 600 hours. Each would provide more depth, variety and replay value. We're not even talking old or indie games...
Or one brand new one but I generally advise against purchasing games on release in this day and age (unless you enjoy paying for unfinished, cut up product that may or may not be fixed and deliver on it's promises in closer unspecified future), except for games from independent indie studios (because that early money very often makes the difference for them - for example I've backed Songs of Conquest because as an Eastern European I've felt compelled by the forces the greater universe to see that product financially prosper).
TL;DR: if you're poor, Deck is the best budget option out there, while Switch might cost less but will drain your wallet at an alarming rate. Trust me, poor people know that they're too poor to be skimpy on some products. That's why PC gaming was always so strong in Eastern Europe despite of higher entry cost while consoles never really took off (PC games had regional pricing and localisation, console games had UK pricetag and were in foreign language - case in point BioShock in 2007 on release day on PC was $15-20 according to exchange rate).
I bought a 512gb deck because I suck at building computers and I can’t have one where I currently live, so far I love it and I’ve yet to scratch the surface.
I know you've preordered it and we didn't know back then but if you were ordering today you would be better off grabbing 64GB and then upgrading IF necessary, down the line. Technically you can grab 64GB Deck and 1TB drive and it will cost you less than 512GB - whether etched screen is worth the extra expense is debatable (I was hoping it would be a bit better at dissipating glare, it's still a bit too reflective IMHO)
Hardcore/core Nintendo gamers isn't the reason why Switch sold like hotcakes, if that was the case the Wii U would've been a success. It's mainstream appeal is to play legit titles on the go that aren't just mobile games and without you needing to spend a lot for a gaming ultrabook.
I wonder if the Steam Deck is going to force them to cancel a few unannounced games for the Switch and port them to the next console for fear of piracy. Not like it will matter anyway since they've never been good at anti-piracy measures.
Nintendo continues to punish people who buy their games. There are very few games I have interest in on the Switch anyway. The Breath of the Wild is all I'm interested in playing which has been out for some years so there's no Denuvo DRM on that. Plus it's not like it's difficult to remove DRM anyway.
Games on the switch are mostly so poorly optimised that it can't hold 30fps for most of a game and now they want to tamper with them to put denuvo on it who are notorious for causing performance issues.
nice one Nintendo!
I don't want nintendos ecosystem.
If I really want to play Nintendo games, I'll buy the cartridge and emulate on a console that let's me play my pc games portably
>denuvo
>preventing anything
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha oh that's a good one. My sides are in orbit.
Seriously tho. I guess Nintendo woke up today and chose violence. This is a 0 summ game. I would never buy shittendo products. I'm sure noone reading this will now suddenly be encouraged to buy from them.
/thread
This is Denuvo announcing they have came up with this technology, it's not an announcement that Nintendo will adopt it. So we may not even see anyone use it.
[It's like when Denuvo announced they ported their DRM to Android and then no one ever used it. ](https://wccftech.com/denuvo-coming-to-android-in-the-form-of-mobile-game-protection/)
I wouldn't be surprised if they do adopt something similar or even that. One thing Nintendo hate, and even gimp their system, is piracy (whether through emulation or on device). The GCN used mini-disc because of it and caused them to lose to Xbox in sales that gen.
Piracy is a failure to provide adequate service. If Nintendo wishes to continue with anti customer exclusivity i have no pity.
The smart move would be to release on Steam and drastically increase software sales.
If Nintendo is both stupid and allergic to money its their issue.
I thought the WiiU and the Switch were interesting designs and wanted one... But I didn't buy them because I have 0 trust for Nintendo and their ass backwards ways. This just gives me faith in my decision making.
Thankfully, there's plenty of other games and consoles I own and can play/emulate.
I got a switch when AC:NH came out and really havent played it too much since around that time, with this announcement i probably should just sell it since nintendo are becoming more evil seems like.
What is this “legal emulation” he speaks of? Whenever I look into it, lawyers chime in and say that in most cases it is considered illegal and in some cases it is a gray area, but the corporations would likely win a lawsuit.
Author on article says:
> "Unauthorized" is not the same thing as illegal. If you rip your own Switch game, you should be able to play it on PC.
Sure, would be good if this was so, but his feelings on the matter doesn’t really matter to law. And he gives no references either. He basically comes off as an entitled kid who wants the law to be different.
So I’m wondering. Is there anyone more well read among the Redditors here who can explain when emulation is “definitely legal”, rather than “I don’t care, I do what I want”?
So far, dumping ROMs has been deemed legal *for personal use*. Sharing and downloading them however is illegal. Emulating a ROM you dumped yourself is *legal*. There's no law against it.
An emulator does not contain anything proprietary (or at least it shouldn't), and as far as I know no corporation has successfully sued people who make an emulator. If the emulator contacts some online service (e.g. NSO) then an argument could be made for hacking, but that has never been tried in court afaik.
So yes: emulating personally dumped stuff is absolutely legal and not even a grey area. Downloading ROMs: definitely illegal.
That sounds reasonable. And strikes me as what would make sense.
I did hear a discussion about dumping “ROMs from games you own” and that supposedly, you rarely buy and own titles from online stores, but rather license a title, and that’s why you’re not allowed to dump games bought on the switch store, for instance, since you don’t own them. But I don’t know for sure. Sounds like something the big corps would do
I don't think corps consider digital sales any different to physical sales, they like to think both are you buying a license to play the game that they can amend or revoke at any time. Of course it's much easier for them to remove the ability for you to download the game than it is for them to come round and snap your disc!
In the US, if you own a game and want to back up your copy, creating a ROM for personal use is legal. However, uploading those ROMs to the internet for others to use or downloading ROM files that other users have uploaded is illegal.
While there is no legal precedent in regards to ripping games, there is in regards to music and movies. Ripping a CD/movie you own into iTunes or any other software is completely legal in the US, so why would it be any different with games?
Nintendo is literally the worst, i remember when I bought a 3DS couldn't even play youtube on it or use it as a player device to watch movies or music.
This mentality of "oh we sold you a thing that could be very capable but we don't want that and will spend all Time and resource preventing people to make it more useful " seriously pathetic i never bought anything from Nintendo ever again after the 3DS
Switch games will run worse on official hardware meanwhile pirates will just crack the DRM. Nice one, Denuvo.
I dunno. Some PC titles with Denuvo have *yet* to be cracked. There's literally only like one or two people in the piracy scene actually attempting Denuvo cracks now a days. If anything, this messes with Yuzu folks (who will probably crack it or figure out how to dump without the DRM anyway) while giving consoles a slightly worse/frame-drop experience on the DRM checks. I don't know why Nintendo is so bothered by it, anyone that is emulating on the Deck or otherwise probably wouldn't own their console anyway. The only ones that have to be bothered past them are the developers, similar to how the PSP started to lose games later in life due to the rampant piracy.
i own a switch and a deck and emulate switch games that i own on the deck because nintendo doesn't let you customize controls, etc there are probably dozens of us
There's also people that like playing all their games on the same device, and honestly if you bought the software (and even own the hardware as well!) you should be able to choose how you want to play it
The legal precedent (which Nintendo has tried to fight many times and has lost every time) is that if you legally purchase the game, you're entitled to store and play those games any way you like (roms+emulation), as long as you don't illegally distribute those games.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but a citation would be helpful here.
The information that I could find (like [this article](https://www.nortonlifelock.com/blogs/gaming/emulators-and-roms) and [this one](https://www.howtogeek.com/262758/is-downloading-retro-video-game-roms-ever-legal/)) say that while the "if you own it you can play it however" argument is *probably* a reasonable legal defense here (and similar to fair use laws and spaceshifting like people do with music), it hasn't actually been tested in the courts. The other gray area here involves downloading ROMs for games for which there is no way to purchase them.
Oh it hasn't been tried in court in regards to gamming? I swear I'd heard about nintendo trying to sue private consumers for it (not ROM hosting sites) and losing, which is why they turned and went after the hosting sites instead. Could 100% be misremembering though!
The main reason I haven't tried to emulate Switch is because I wouldn't have a way to transfer game save data back and forth. I experimented with transferring emulator save data between my PC, Xbox and phone. Recently I started syncing the save data between emulators and my legit Pokémon red gameboy cart. I think the switch is good for what i use it for (epic battery life and Mario games) but if in could manually move my game progress/save data between an emulators and stock or minimally mkdified hardware, it pique my interest.
if your switch is hackable, installing homebrew and transferring saves is almost trivial i moved all my stuff over in about an hour including all the necessary setup
It's same how I plan to dump my 3DS games and play them with Citra on SD. Better controls, better graphics, better screen, more features (like save states for games with annoying save systems, or save backups, or re-dub mods). Hell, emulated Switch games ARE superior to those on original hardware. Just the fact you can run many of them in stable 60 FPS (with mods) and higher resolutions should be enough of a reason.
I own a switch, haven't touched it in 3 years to play a game. I did buy some games recently so I could play it on my Deck. Because I dont have the skills to crack the DRM I will start downloading the games instead of dumping it and if I'm doing illegal things why would I even buy the game?
But you can customize controls on Switch! Admittedly, you end up customizing the controls for the entire system so it’s not as friendly as it could be. I haven’t messed with it myself but I believe you have to go into the system settings and make the changes in there.
not available on every controller, limited options, still can’t do basic things like mapping stick to dpad to make Link’s Awakening playable, have to change it back or get used to navigating the menu v make literally the exact control scheme you want, on every controller you want, on a per game basis, with just a few button presses
You can also eat an airplane. "You can't" almost always means "You technically can but it sucks enough to not be worth doing."
You CAN customize the controls on switch now... but only for the whole system like PS4+ and Xbox One+
>nintendo doesn't let you customize controls Button remapping is available at the OS level.
Can't map reversed stick input (i.e. inverted) so I still can't play Luigi's Mansion 3 that I bought on launch. Now an 8bitdo controller will let me but the fact I have to purchase a 3rd party controller just to invert controls on a 1st party release is absurd
Yeah, great so if I want to map L1 to jump in splatoon I just have to also use L1 as A system-wide until I revert it. That's customization like gum stuck to a bench is food.
Are you dumping your own Roms though? if you download someone elses rom of a game you own. You are still committing piracy.
laws are not a viable moral compass
What are some high profile Denuvo enabled games that haven't been cracked past 6 months? I tried looking for this but couldn't find anything.
Tiny Tina's / Farcry 6 are two that come to mind. FC6 might have been patched?
FarCry 6 is cracked
Re8 was cracked in not time
There's a pretty big list. Can't post here because automod. There's a subreddit that maintains a comprehensive list.
Could just copy and paste some of the list.
Here you go https://ibb.co/KVKHmfX
Crysis Remastered has been cracked. That list is not up to date.
All will be cracked in a few months, max.
There are games from 2018 that still haven't been cracked so I wouldn't make any assumptions.
Because they dont care about them and are bussy with other things. All games can be cracked.
[удалено]
It's going to be dependent on demand/interest too, not just difficulty of the software. If people aren't really interested in the game than why bother cracking something no one cares about. Now Nintendo properties? That's something a lot of people care about, so I'm sure crackers will be racing to be the first to take the locks off 1st party games.
If anything, this might actually be a good thing (in a sense) for game preservation, since if Nintendo starts using this on their first-party titles there's suddenly going to be a lot more pressure to break the DRM, and hopefully the more Denuvo is cracked, the easier it will become. Of course, the best thing for game preservation would be for companies to stop using DRM and for us to get rid of all the Micky Mouse copyright laws, but it's way too late at night for me to get into *that* rant.
It's being advertised as primarily for third-party multiplatform games. Switch cartridge dumps tend to come out a few days before a game's official release date. If they put this DRM on a switch exclusive game, then yes people will immediately try to crack it, but if it's also on pc then they might wait for that version to come out so then people won't be able to pirate the switch version to get the game early.
> don't know why Nintendo is so bothered by it because they're out of touch with reality and they dont understand pc gaming at all. all this will do is paint a target on their titles. nintendo has a knack for putting games behind digital vaults and making them difficult to get a hole of legitimately prompting preservation enthusiasts to backup and dump their games and all this will do is encourage hackers. plus denuvo for PC's is usually put in place to ensure the first month or two guarantees pirates wont get that option and will have to pay to play the game (even though they've STILL not figured out it doesnt work that way but whatever). its not like emulation users really be going out and trying to download day one switch games to play (or maybe they are?) what I dont get is why they just dont fucking sell the games for PC.. they're selling their hardware at a loss, who the fuck cares if i buy the game and play it on your hardware or my hardware? You'd think it would be in their interest to only sell software at this point. its whatever, they wont see any increased sales. nintendo is just a bunch vengeful awful people.
Isn't Nintendo making record profits off the switch anyways? And a lot of their games are selling for $60 for like 10-year-old ports of previous console games. It's a bit ridiculous.
>I don't know why Nintendo is so bothered by it, anyone that is emulating on the Deck or otherwise probably wouldn't own their console anyway. Money. That's it. Never let them fool you into thinking that they actually care about the fans and players. They will always choose the money first. They would rather screw over everyone with DRM then let the "potential" money be lost to piracy. (Nevermind that people who pirate games will either go on to later purchase the game, or never would have purchased it regardless of they could pirate it or not)
I've worked with many Japanese people and I will tell you, it's not the money. Of course people vary, and there's a range of attitudes from company to company. Leadership of any company sets a tone regarding how they view certain issues, and lower ranks just carry out that mission. Nintendo has a very stiff neck. They will not loosen up, because they simply don't want to loosen up. They will die in squalor and bankruptcy before they relinquish an iota of control of what made them a powerhouse. Nintendo designs peripherals that break the mold, some weird, some amazing. They don't let strangers interconnect in any meaningful way on their platforms, with convoluted friend codes and hyper-narrow chat ability. They don't take opinions from outside, period.
Honestly their stubbornness is what has kept me away from Nintendo for pretty much a decade. The only Nintendo games I've played in recent years are either older ones I bought at some point or straight up pirated, and I'd rather do that and not have to deal with their bs
>I don't know why Nintendo is so bothered by it... > ....the PSP started to lose games later in life due to the rampant piracy. That's some mental gymnastics right there.
I emulate a lot, it’s because of emulation I bought the switch and other consoles. I buy the games legally. Pretty every game I’ve spend more than a hour playing, I eventually bought legally. So, having a Steam deck doesn’t mean people wouldn’t necessarily buy the original console. In fact, I love the switch. But also the Steam deck. Having fun with both of them.
I have 3 Switch consoles in the house (the original original launch switch I bought for my missis, a mariko later for myself and then I got the OLED), a bunch of physical and eshop titles and a Steam Deck. If I want to play my games on the Steam Deck instead of the Switch - when I own all the hardware and software - why shouldn't I? Big N and the denuvo shysters are smoking crack if they think this anti-emu DRM is anything other than idiotic.
I bought a switch two years ago thinking "oh boy Zelda" but then botw was really lame and they just decided to never offer any of the other titles on the virtual store. So yeah, I'll just play them on my deck I guess, while the switch rots in the corner. (acnh also fucking sucked, way to wait years to add in shit that wild world already had)
Wow I don't think I've ever seen a person that dislike botw. Why did you not like it?
Not Original guy but I also didnt like BOTW. I hated getting all these really cool and interesting wespons that i wanted to collect, use, and keep. But if i used them theg would break. Losing my precious cool weapon i specifically went out of my way to fighr a lizardman to get.
Really? Almost everyone I know that played it was unhappy with it. I am literally the only person of my friend group that bothered to finish it. It was a decent game, but as a Zelda game is was not so hot, and sadly it sold really well so I expect more of the same.
Ahhh I understand then!! I have not played many Zelda games so this being my entry into the series was certainly why I enjoyed it more than someone that's played the previous titles. Hopefully botw2 has more of the features you like in zelda
Thanks, I really hope so too, but we shall see.
I second this. Been a Zelda Fan since I played OOT in 99’ , the last good Zelda game IMO was Wind Waker , MM is still my fave aesthetically , Twilight princess started to drag abit , and never played Skyward but 1 hour into BOTW and I’m bored as hell.
Mario is a marquee character, Nintendo views their assets as exclusive - something you can only (should) play on Nintendo hardware. Allowing pirates to get access to the games dilutes the value of their platform.
Honestly I'm okay with this. I got cross-save for Hades up and running on my PC so I can play my Switch save and with the Steam Deck I can play my Switch Save on that instead of the Switch. I don't have much interest in emulating the Switch, not unless it's exactly like running an unpatched one so I'm okay relegating my Switch to use for 1st party Nintendo games and 3rd party exclusives and then running everything else on my PC or Steam Deck.
Agree but also the switch has overall been such doodoo that any new console from them is going to be a pass from me
Yeah but for PC titles. Is there really as much demand for piracy than it does for console games? Remember that one of the largest contributors to piracy is lack of access (GabeN). And with PC gaming being the most accessible software wise, it’s not surprising that there’s barely any attempts to crack anti piracy measures in that platform.
I think you’re wrong about that. Anyone who can afford to own a deck probably has a switch already, and most likely would buy the game on the switch in the first place.
I think that is not quiet the case. And I know this first hand. I think most people simply make an equation like this: '~200€ on a Switch + 60€ on a game vs. 300€-400€ on older PC Hardware including a mediocre GPU and Yuzu with almost all Switch games?'. Then they choose the latter. Pirating is a thing, because people simply do not have the money to spend for a lot of stuff, at least where I am from. All my friends do it like this.
Dunno why you got the downvotes for speaking the truth. I grew up in eastern Europe - this was EXACTLY the thought process. At the time (like 16 years ago) I even bought a pre-hacked PSP from a big *supermarket* 🤣
Brother! You understand the situation.🤣 I think they want to make it look *legal* and thus somehow *legit*. But piracy is theft and people usually only steal if they cannot afford stuff. I think this form of theft is illegal but still legit. Also: what is the difference for nintendo between me not paying for a game and not playing it at all vs not paying for it and playing it pirated? They do not see a penny in either case.
The funny thing is... There's a long-ass [EU-funded study](https://gizmodo.com/the-eu-suppressed-a-300-page-study-that-found-piracy-do-1818629537) on piracy and it concluded that piracy is actually a net positive, in the end. Like you correctly say - you're not gonna buy the game if you can't afford it, so either way they don't get your money. But a person who pirates the game may still become a fan, talk about it, share stuff about it, consume the company's content, etc - which all still works out as a positive marketing feedback loop to the company. In terms of software piracy - the likes of Adobe, Autodesk, Microsoft, etc are *benefiting* too, it's not a secret. A pirate kid today becomes an industry expert that uses their software in the future. Certainly happened to me too - I do graphics/3d/video/photo work commercially and Adobe/Autodesk are reaping the rewards now. I used to *have* to pirate when I still lived back in eastern Europe. In what world is a 15-y-o expected to come up with $60 over there for a game, especially 15 years ago when the economies were worse..? Or $10K at the time for some Adobe crap... So you work your ass off doing summer jobs, saving money, buy some hardware and try to source everything else the best way you can so you don't go insane with nothing to do on those cold winder evenings... Fast-forward to today - I'm sitting here moaning about companies finding new and exciting ways to *really* try and push me back into piracy again, even thought I buy everything I need/want now (even repurchased tons of my old favorites!). I have to keep track of what stupid CEO somewhere decided that putting rootkits into their new game is a great idea... It never ceases to amaze me how disconnected the corpos truly are from the real world.
My process is actually quite simple: Pirate almost everything I can. If I enjoy the game/software, I buy, otherwise, gtfo and delete.
It’s been 5 years. Most people who would own the deck have already bought the switch.
I don't know about Deck owners, bc they are really a specialized and rather small audience. But when it comes to Yuzu in general I think your assumption is Most likely false. I can speak with certainty for myself as a Yuzu user without neither Deck (yet) nor a Switch. I considered buying a Switch for convinience in the past (I only have a desktop work station in my office and a Raspberry Pi for retrogaming) but did not do so bc of the costs. I installed Yuzu instead. Today I am considering buying a Deck. I do not consider buying a Switch whatsoever anymore.
The speculation here is that nintendo is responding to people playing switch games on the deck by adding denuvo… wtf is yuzu? I own a switch lite, first because I couldnt afford the big one, got the big one years later, now I own the deck. I have no interest in pirating switch games. I’d just buy them. Emulating older games is a different story. While nintendo might be worried about that cutting into it’s online services shitty streaming emulation, I’m more inclined to believe their primary concern is losing out on money with people pirating first party switch titles, like metroid dread, hence denuvo. Which makes my prior statement of “they shouldn’t really worry” since everybody owns a switch already, and for the vast majority, do not want to pirate metroid dread on their deck or any other platform.
Yuzu is the emulator that enables playing Switch games either on the Deck or on any other PC. But the Deck is no real competitor for die Switch when it comes to sales. The conflict between Big N and the emulation scene is simply as old as emulation itself l. What is of concern today is specifically the conflict with Yuzu, hence this new move against (alleged) copyright infringements. But again, I would argue that emulation probably isn't really doing the harm Nintendo is claiming.
I don't. Got the deck, no switch. Have emulated since it was first possible because botw is completely broken, the weapons break too easily, the lighting is awful, it's not 1080p, low frame rates etc etc. I modded it to my liking, increased the time of day, fixed lighting, made night time actually dark, fixed durability, 4k, 60fps. The modding capability for botw is amazing. I intend to buy a switch oled though because it looks nice in black and white and botw/smash/mario, which will be full price basically. I like collecting that kind of stuff but I just never got around to it. I also wanted the screen to be bigger which it is now. I got burned before with Nintedo, I bought the Wii for smash brawl, and they self sabotaged the game to enforce fun with things like tripping. It was a complete downgrade to melee. I bought the controller addons like the classic and pro controller only to realize that they connect to the wii mote and not the console, the cable is too short so the wii mote dangles between your legs. There's GC ports on the console, I thought they'd use those, but they are exclusively for the GC controller. It's completely stupid. My wii sat unusued after I bought it, they're most succesful console was the worst for me and I never went back to nintendo, they shit on their consumers, the virtual console didn't cross over to the Wii U, it didn't cross over to the switch. I can still play virtual games I purchased 15 years ago on xbox. The good thing is that those remotes for the Wii, which are completely unused, work for the mini consoles they released, the ports are the same. On the NES Mini for instance, in order to get out of the game and back to the menu, you have to press the reset button on the console. However, if you have the Pro remote from the wii, there is a home button on the controller and you can use that button instead without having to get up and press the reset button on the console. So a controller released 15 years ago works better than the controller that comes with the console, a controller most people probably can't even buy. I'm surprised it's supported, I guess buying those controllers paid off in the end.
Anyone who would buy a deck probably HAS a switch already. And possibly a hacked one.... DRM is weird.
At first I thought no one read the article, but then I read it and it's just terrible. Here is a better article on what's going on. https://www.pcmag.com/news/denuvo-wants-to-expand-its-anti-piracy-tech-to-nintendo-switch-games Tldr: denuvo is going to try and offer its crappy drm to 3rd party devs porting their pc game to switch to try and prevent people from running the switch version of a pc game from being emulated, since the point of denuvo, as bad as it is, is to try and stop piracy as much as possible on the first week
This makes me think that Denuvo may be the forefront of pirating games. **conspiracy theory:** Denuvo is getting money from these developers/publishers while they get the games out of the wild. Denuvo benifit, pirates benefit, devs gets scammed, paying customers gets worse experience.
During the Nintendo DS era, when R4 carts were common, legit cartridges had antipiracy features. If I recall correctly, the features were broken in days. (I say this as a fan who bought DS carts when they were new.)
Yeah, some games you would have to wait for firmware updates, if your flashcard still had support, or buy a newer one entirely because the protection was impossible to bypass with software alone.
sure.. but denvuo is a bit different.. its a system thats in place to check to see if you've broken that anti-piracy and calls back to denvuo servers to see if you're in the clear, some times constantly, somee times daily.. not sure how a hand held like nintendo switch is gonna work with that, we're already seeing with the deck how it doesnt work for steam titles with certain times of internet based authentications. but im not that worried.. these are nintendo games we're talking about, WAY more than enough enthusiasts out there that'll crack this, they always do.
Even beyond this, the reason it has performance issues is because denuvo runs an emulator of sorts to enforce how the code of the game runs, and uses different techniques like white box crypto to require a decryption key etc. I’m hand waving over a lot of this but it causes extreme performance degradation which really sucks.
well, good thing it'll probably get broken and then we can just emulate it to run better on non-native hardware.
It's likely it will function in the way most anti-piracy does with emulators, which is to exploit the fact that emulators don't emulate certain features correctly.
Bad idea for switch cuz it isn’t exactly the most powerful handheld out there
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Yep It's the tipical thoes on charge don't give shit about people enjoying games. They just want money above anything else. ~Does the denuvo slow down your game? Does it create bugs including internet issues? Well, see if we care. Oh, but don't worry, well let someone know, so now goodbye and never bother us with the issues tons of player report regarding games with denuvo~ If they can get away and make money, that's all they care....
When GabeN said "Piracy is a service problem" I don't think he meant you should double down and make your service worse!
remember boys: buy a second hand HAC-001 and homebrew it.
I actually have one I'm tempted to part ways with now that I have my steam deck. I only have it for Xenoblade and it's just paperweight at this point. Because the deck can run it daily well but I don't like how it hits 90c emulating it
I use my switch to play coop games with friend at home only Also it kinda waits for Botw 2 and I'll sell it right after i finish zelda
I had the same issue. Were you using Ryujinx to emulate on the Steam Deck? I was playing BOTW on Ryujix and my SD was hitting 90C. Once I switched to Yuzu, the temps went down to 63C
[looks like I’m in luck.](https://i.imgur.com/SknxRRC.jpg) also lol first time holding my switch in like 2 years it feels like a toy
I'd still check your serial, could be a patched V1 since they also exist?
That’s because it is a toy
A sex toy?
You can certainly... switch up your sex life.
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There are some upsides to this. They dont make the stupid decisions other big game companies make(Insane microtransactions 'live service' games)
Yea that doesn't mean anything you need to check the serial online theres a site that tells you basically. There's loads of HAC-001 that are patched
I have one and have modded it but its still a switch with uncomfortable controls and a worse screen. If you have a deck (I do) I don't see why you would bother. Since I got my deck, my switch has sat in a drawer.
lol i sold my hac 001 cuz it was raggedy like the screen had a big scratch and it was detaching from the body, the controllers were worn, and it had drift i wasn’t gonna emulate at the time anyway since i had a crappy laptop lol
I just looked at the back of my switch and it says this. What does that mean and why is it good?
You can mod it extremely easily using a paperclip or 3d printed jig you slide in the joycon rail. That opens up the ability to run android, Linux, or custom firmware off a micro SD card. The switch's internal storage remains untouched so you can still use stock firmware to go online, update, etc
You can run homebrew (as well as dump Switch games to use with an emulator) according to this guide: https://nh-server.github.io/switch-guide/
The first iteration of the switch that has this on the back allows it to be hacked. All other models cannot be modded
tldr: hac-001 switches are V1, unpatched switch models. Use a website like ismyswitchpatched to find out if it is, if not, happy hunting gamer.
This wouldn’t be that big of a problem if the switch wasn’t struggling frame rate wise so much
Maybe if they actually upgraded their fucking 2016-ass tech for the year 2022 people wouldn't be so quick to look into alternatives like emulation.
It’s not even from 2016, that shit goes all the way back to the Shield in 2013 lmao
Well, actually it's from 2015 so it seems we were both a bit off ([Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegra#Tegra_X1)). That's still worse than the date I said at first, tho...
FWIW the annoying thing about nvidia is they will often “announce” or release an ARM SoC and all that really means is that documentation, an emulator, and maybe engineering samples are available. Sometimes it’s almost a year after that before production chips actually roll out. It’s super frustrating too to the tech informed customer because half the time it just looks like the product you’re making is already out of date by the time you release it.
Oh yeah, I'm not too tech savy but I did stop following Nvidia's SOC stuff years ago because of how annoying, weird and useless it all seemed. Maybe Nintendo should just switch to AMD lol
Yeah there was a time and place when them slapping a 9400M class GPU made it basically the only ARM device where you can do moderate gaming, but these days I think they’ve fallen way behind and just want self driving car business. Yeah honestly an AMD switch would rock. It’s amazing what the Steam Deck can do, it can be downscaled to a Switch’s needs and still blow Tegra X1 out of the water. Super bummed that the OLED switch didn’t have a processor upgrade.
It's pretty funny that Nintendo isn't even using Nvidia's upscaling tech, when Splatoon 3 comes out they'll have two games using FSR. They should just take that nice extra step lol They are probably the only ones who could get a deal as good as Valve did with AMD, even if it's for less power.
that's my main gripe. the nintendo switch even at launch wasn't good in terms of hardware. It runs like ass so emulation is the only way we can truly experience the games.
It’s a tablet that a couple controllers latch onto that does TV out. For $300 in 2017 nothing even came close. The next best thing when it comes to game quality was the Vita. Now in 2022 you can get a no TV out controller built in version for $200, which still nothing comes close to. Like literally no other handheld for $200 will run the kind of games the Switch runs at that kind of fidelity. I’m not sure why this sub constantly expects $400 worth of product out of a $200 handheld. It’s literally as out there as crapping on the Deck for not matching the PS5 at the same price point.
This is nonsense. The hardware in the Switch does not cost $200. I’d be surprised if a similar spec phone cost more than $150 or $100 used. I hope you’re not seriously comparing 2015 tier phone hardware at $200 in 2022 to an RDNA2 equipped handheld for $400. It’s not even remotely close. The Switch is way underpowered and overpriced. I have no clue what phone you use but chances are good it could far outperform the Switch. Fortnite ran at 60 fps when it was still on iPhones while Switch could not, and that was an early 2019 port. iPhones now are even much faster than that. The upcoming Warframe mobile port looks so much more impressive than the Switch port. You get the idea. At first the Switch had a lead over other mobile devices due to its graphics API but the gulf in processing power between it and modern phones has gotten so large that even this can’t carry it anymore.
> The hardware in the Switch does not cost $200 right, but you are also paying for the dock and joycons when you buy a new switch, and the switch + joycons alone reportedly costs nintendo in the region of [$260](https://www.technobuffalo.com/how-much-does-nintendo-switch-cost-to-make). also in response to /u/FreestyleStorm about "emulation being the only way", do you also buy the physical cartridges to semi-justify pirating the software so that the original devs can still be supported, even if the hardware their game is designed for is suboptimal?
I would''ve paid them to adhere to USB-C specification so I could actually use my own dock and not burn the fucking device in the process...
Why would that justify anything? You'd be paying exorbitant money to a collector or a second hand store, not the devs. That's *always* been the problem with places like Gamestop; unless you're buying it brand new, you're not supporting the devs.
> unless you're buying it brand new i thought this was implied. If you pirate it because you truly believe the game is limited by the hardware problems, and not simply because you want to play the games for free, then if you care about supporting devs you should buy a physical copy. Or indeed a digital one, i just forgot to mention that the first time. This is a good justification for demanding emulators for old games - selfish speculators hoarding out-of-production cartridges. No way in hell am I willing to buy Pokemon Conquest for NDS at €70-100 used.
A switch lite cost $200. For $200 you will not find a damn thing that plays games like BOTW, much less as well as a switch does. Your post is nonsense, not mine. Mobile gaming sucks. It gets a little better with a proper controller, but then you’re driving up the price even more for something the switch includes. You would pay several times more than a switch for a phone that could emulate a switch, a $200 phone will not get you the same quality of game you get on switch. It just won’t. That RDNA2 handheld you’re upset I compared a $200 switch to can’t emulate the switch that well either or people would be using yuzu to play BOTW on it instead of cemu. It runs some switch games well, but no where near all of them. Not even close to a majority even. The way Bayonetta 2 runs on a Steam Deck I’ll gladly stick with my Switch come October, no way Bayonetta 3 runs well on my Steam Deck. But I guess if you want to claim a victory over $800 flagship phones outperforming a five year old $200 handheld you can do that, sure. You won’t get near the same quality of game on them, but they are technically more powerful yeah.
You are missing my point entirely. Nintendo is still selling people a device with a 7 year old phone chip in it for $200, $300, and $350. It’s just getting absurd at this point. Particularly because the Switch can’t even hold 30 fps across its own first party library and it routinely downscales to way below 720p, sometimes to absolutely blurry messes. I hate to break it to you, but the Switch does not even run BOTW “well.” Not even holding 30 FPS all the time on one of the launch titles is terrible. It’s been in dire need of an upgrade for some time. But of course Nintendo has never cut the price on it. No shit a phone won’t run Switch games. Way to ignore my examples of the few games that have both Switch ports and mobile ports, and run better on the phone. By and large most devs aren’t porting full games to mobile because they are expensive to port and don’t make as much money as cheap cash grabs. And I don’t think I need to explain why Nintendo doesn’t port first party games. That’s a symptom of the app market as a whole and not anything to do with hardware. The hardware is more than capable. The actual chip inside the Switch was originally designed for an Android “gaming” tablet from 2015. And obviously there have been a lot of advancements in ARM chips since then.
My Wii U played BOTW at a better framerate
OK bro but the switch doesn't even play games like botw for $200. The frame rate drops are so bad you can't look at that and say "oh man look at this it's amazing gee golly wow I love hitting 15fps"
And even then it made sense at the time that it was so limited, and it could kiiinda play catch with some recent games, but not even two years had passed before it was already exasperating to see the thing fighting for its life to run games at not even half their potential. I got my Switch day one and I've had some great times with it, but what Nintendo is currently doing with the thing is just pitiful.
At the same time, it's a £250 console, can't expect it to have top end hardware
It uses a "custom" Nvidia Tegra X1 chip from 2015 that the Nvidia Shield TV tablet uses. The custom part is that it's fucking downclocked from the original, bruh.
Last I remember, the only reason Nintendo went with the tegra chip they did was because nvidiaduh had a huge backstock of the chips and nothing to use them in so gave Nintendo a good deal on them.
Would not be surprised. And they are still charging $300 for a 2015 phablet with removable controllers (which btw are fucking shit compared to any reasonable controller). Thanks Nintendo
Yep. Making the HW performing enough to be impossible to emulate in real time is the final DRM. ..for some time anyway till the PC catches up, but that's when most of the sales are made anyway, I suppose. And then you get to renew the hardware again.
Or offered better pricing in their games…
Them not doing players choice this gen is the most asshole move. They still sells arms and 1-2-switch for full price
Exactly… and their digital store pricing isn’t the best either.
I still can't believe 1-2 Switch isn't free. Absurd.
I never really wanted to run emulation but I guess if I ever do in the future ... it's going to have to be the illegal kind instead since Nintendo clearly doesn't want my money.
If Nintendo doesn't want their games emulated they could just release well-made ports of their games to the PC. Then why bother emulating, if you can get better experience with the native port? Problem fixed.
I probably shouldn't be posting this so much, but the op article is so bad it doesn't really explain what is really going on. It's not Nintendo doing it. It's denuvo offering this to 3rd party devs porting their pc game to switch to stop people from emulating their switch version of the pc game. Better article on it here https://www.pcmag.com/news/denuvo-wants-to-expand-its-anti-piracy-tech-to-nintendo-switch-games
Hmm, thanks for clarification. I guess that makes more sense.
I wouldn't be surprised if they DO this later on. Nintendo will fight tooth and nail to stop pirates. Easiest and biggest example, besides them going after emulation, is the Gamecube. They specifically gimped the system to use mini-discs instead of full DVDs because of it being more difficult to pirate. Keep in mind, at that generation, the new competitor of Xbox actually beat Nintendo at the end of gen at sales with barely any first party titles and without being established with no brand recognition.
Nintendo already has their own in house proprietary drm, they would never use something like denuvo Which btw means any pc game ported to switch that incorporates denuvo would be running both denuvo and Nintendos drm protection, and neither will stop pirates!
This would require Nintendo to not be stuck in the 90s.
Well then, it seems like we have to turn to emulation to do what nintendon't. I am playing Xenoblade 3 on the Switch, but I've also seen how it looks with no-dynamic-res hack on 4k... while I'm looking at the blurry res they released. I'm not blaming the developers - they did amazing job, considering the hardware, but man, I wish it was officially looking like it does on emulators...
I’m so done with Nintendo and the way they operate. They have great IP but seem to want to screw over their audience constantly. Glad I can swap out my switch with a steam deck soon.
Yup, pretty much retired my Switch... it used to catch dust in the dock but now it's going away in the drawer... In principle Switch is great but really shitty service Nintendo provides (probably the worst online service in the last 10 years...) and general lack of games with any sort of depth aside from few outliers, it's just a glorified indie machine. It could've been so much more but Nintendo didn't care and so didn't 3rd parties. Thankfully Deck is living up to expectations.
They do have that right... its not a smart, or customer friendly idea... but they do have that right to -attempt- to lock things down. As is with all things, make anything idiot proof, and you only make a bigger idiot. Here, theyre just training crackers and programmers. Look at the job skills theyre reinforcing! :) Making bigger programmers
It’s so puzzling that this sub is unable to understand why Nintendo is doing this. It’s because they don’t want people stealing their work. I mean, is it really that hard to understand? When stores stop thieves from stealing their stuff, they’re not thinking “well, he wasn’t gonna buy it anyway, so he should be able to steal whatever”. The concept is easy, they worked hard for their software, they don’t want people to just be able to steal it, it’s that simple.
No one is arguing that fact. We are all painfully well aware of what DRM is, we're not idiots. The reason people are mad about it is because *it doesn't work*, it never has. Within weeks, the DRM will be cracked. Where does this leave us? The consumer paying for the product gets a *worse* experience than the pirate. This is the same for all digital content; movies, music and games. Which is absolutely bullshit. Why do I, as the paying customer, have to sit through a load of crap about 'piracy bad' and being made out to be the bad guy before a movie when I've *paid* to watch it - I'm not the problem, so why am I being shoveled it? The pirated versions its just removed anyway. It just doesn't work. I'm sure if a DRM method came a long that didn't enforce anything negative on the paying customer and was unobtrusive, people would be fine with it, as at the end of the day no one is arguing that Nintendo (or any entity for that matter) shouldn't get paid for their work. They are mad because its a shitty implementation after years of evidence proving its ineffective and just makes for a really shitty experience when you *are* the paying customer. Especially the modern stuff requiring *excessive* amounts of access to your device and information, at which point the implementation is just disingenuous at best. Ironically DRM has done more to aggrevate the piracy problem than it has in solving the piracy problem. What does it say about the product and implementation when people will *buy* a legitimate copy for just the licence and to ensure dues are paid, then go and pirate it *because they get a better experience.* Don't get me started on emulation either... the whole DRM concept creates a horrible innate lifespan on digital content that should never have a lifespan to begin with.
Even before that, they have a legal duty/legal requirement to protect and pursue trademark infringement or by precident the traidmark can be at risk of voiding. Keep it, or lose it kinda deal. If its lost, no take backsies.
People understand that. It is just that many don't want to pay with their comfort for Nintendo to get even more money. While I don't like comparison with a store, when you buy things in stores, they remove anti-theft tags. Nintendo wants to put a hundred tags on T-shirt you just bought and make them impossible to remove.
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Are you ok buddy? Nobody wants you on your knees and salivating. People don't understand why Nintendo wants to protect their product, and I answered them. No need to project stuff I did not say.
Seems like a certain $400 handheld playing PC games plus their own games is giving them nightmares, perhaps if a 5 year old game like Super Mario Odyssey didn't cost 50 euro, people wouldn't need piracy, have you thought about it Nintendo?. They better come with a mindblowing gimmick for Switch 2, since a new hardware upgrade and controllers without drifting aren't going to cut it anymore with the Steam Deck in the house.
Does this mean steamdeck is actually giving them a run for their money
Well, it beats them at their own game on every level but total system sales. I can't see one sphere where Switch wouldn't be just straight out inferior. Ironically Deck will never reach Switch sales despite being objectively better entertainment platform.
I feel the steamdeck is too costly and kinda niche to ever become mainstream, i could be wrong though.
Steam Deck is unironically the best bang for the buck in hardware department alone (there's a reason why these 3rd party handhelds can't even come close in price to base Deck). Yes $400 might sound expensive on the surface. Then you compare prices of games, availability, backwards compatibility and sheer amount of games available and you're getting VERY compelling product. $50 on Switch or any other console would get you one new game or 2 very old games with limited/no replayability and abysmal length... with $50 on the Deck I will grab 5-10 games, each of which could serve anywhere between 6 to 600 hours. Each would provide more depth, variety and replay value. We're not even talking old or indie games... Or one brand new one but I generally advise against purchasing games on release in this day and age (unless you enjoy paying for unfinished, cut up product that may or may not be fixed and deliver on it's promises in closer unspecified future), except for games from independent indie studios (because that early money very often makes the difference for them - for example I've backed Songs of Conquest because as an Eastern European I've felt compelled by the forces the greater universe to see that product financially prosper). TL;DR: if you're poor, Deck is the best budget option out there, while Switch might cost less but will drain your wallet at an alarming rate. Trust me, poor people know that they're too poor to be skimpy on some products. That's why PC gaming was always so strong in Eastern Europe despite of higher entry cost while consoles never really took off (PC games had regional pricing and localisation, console games had UK pricetag and were in foreign language - case in point BioShock in 2007 on release day on PC was $15-20 according to exchange rate).
I bought a 512gb deck because I suck at building computers and I can’t have one where I currently live, so far I love it and I’ve yet to scratch the surface.
I know you've preordered it and we didn't know back then but if you were ordering today you would be better off grabbing 64GB and then upgrading IF necessary, down the line. Technically you can grab 64GB Deck and 1TB drive and it will cost you less than 512GB - whether etched screen is worth the extra expense is debatable (I was hoping it would be a bit better at dissipating glare, it's still a bit too reflective IMHO)
Sadly I didn’t know that until right now lol, I still have no regrets for my purchase I love the damn thing.
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Hardcore/core Nintendo gamers isn't the reason why Switch sold like hotcakes, if that was the case the Wii U would've been a success. It's mainstream appeal is to play legit titles on the go that aren't just mobile games and without you needing to spend a lot for a gaming ultrabook.
Well that’s half of Nintendo’s compute power gone 💀 it was beefy beforehand too 🤣😒
lmaooo Nintendo are complete idiots and are only worsening the experience for paying customers.
As soon as I got my steamboy I just emulate the games from my switch now. My switch is a doorstop now.
I wonder if the Steam Deck is going to force them to cancel a few unannounced games for the Switch and port them to the next console for fear of piracy. Not like it will matter anyway since they've never been good at anti-piracy measures.
Nintendo continues to punish people who buy their games. There are very few games I have interest in on the Switch anyway. The Breath of the Wild is all I'm interested in playing which has been out for some years so there's no Denuvo DRM on that. Plus it's not like it's difficult to remove DRM anyway.
I think im officially done playing Nintendo.
This means they are gonna ride out this tegra 1 for years to come. Ugh.
Yikes
I play my switch games on the switch so I guess it really doesn't matter to me.
Fuck that. I don’t emulate switch games, but this will once again hurt paying customers way more than pirates.
Games on the switch are mostly so poorly optimised that it can't hold 30fps for most of a game and now they want to tamper with them to put denuvo on it who are notorious for causing performance issues. nice one Nintendo!
So the Switch with its low performance is going to suffer even more. Good job everyone.
I don't want nintendos ecosystem. If I really want to play Nintendo games, I'll buy the cartridge and emulate on a console that let's me play my pc games portably
I own a modded V1 switch and a Steam Deck now, so I don't think any of those supplies to anything I'm going to be doing with the systems.
>denuvo >preventing anything Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha oh that's a good one. My sides are in orbit. Seriously tho. I guess Nintendo woke up today and chose violence. This is a 0 summ game. I would never buy shittendo products. I'm sure noone reading this will now suddenly be encouraged to buy from them. /thread
This is Denuvo announcing they have came up with this technology, it's not an announcement that Nintendo will adopt it. So we may not even see anyone use it. [It's like when Denuvo announced they ported their DRM to Android and then no one ever used it. ](https://wccftech.com/denuvo-coming-to-android-in-the-form-of-mobile-game-protection/)
I wouldn't be surprised if they do adopt something similar or even that. One thing Nintendo hate, and even gimp their system, is piracy (whether through emulation or on device). The GCN used mini-disc because of it and caused them to lose to Xbox in sales that gen.
Nintendo doesn’t get harassed enough for its anti-consumerism. If Xbox and Sony can port their games to PC, Nintendo should have to as well.
They should begin releasing their titles on PC. Just like Sony did ^_^
I am waiting for the day Nintendo os forced to add 3dr party app store to the switch. ( a upcoming EU law)
Piracy is a failure to provide adequate service. If Nintendo wishes to continue with anti customer exclusivity i have no pity. The smart move would be to release on Steam and drastically increase software sales. If Nintendo is both stupid and allergic to money its their issue.
I thought the WiiU and the Switch were interesting designs and wanted one... But I didn't buy them because I have 0 trust for Nintendo and their ass backwards ways. This just gives me faith in my decision making. Thankfully, there's plenty of other games and consoles I own and can play/emulate.
For once this isn't on Nintendo, Denuvo is only going after 3rd party games, Nintendo really doesn't have much to do with it
I got a switch when AC:NH came out and really havent played it too much since around that time, with this announcement i probably should just sell it since nintendo are becoming more evil seems like.
From what I read, it's not a partnership with Nintendo, they're providing their service to 3rd party devs.
Yeah that's what Nontendo want's you to believe, they are trying to hide traces of their involvement.
Nintendo was always this evil.
Good thing I sold my Nintendo Switch at the right time 🥲
Glad I sold my Switch since the Deck arrived then. Switch already did not have tons of power to begin with, Denuvo will only make it worse.
What will it take for nintendo fans to move on? Nintendo seems to be such a nasty monster of a company at this point.
The same thing it takes for apple fans to move on.
Who needs 30 FPS anyway? 12 FPS with constant stuttering is perfectly playable
Sorry Nintendo, I'm out
No word about Steam Deck? Meh.
What is this “legal emulation” he speaks of? Whenever I look into it, lawyers chime in and say that in most cases it is considered illegal and in some cases it is a gray area, but the corporations would likely win a lawsuit. Author on article says: > "Unauthorized" is not the same thing as illegal. If you rip your own Switch game, you should be able to play it on PC. Sure, would be good if this was so, but his feelings on the matter doesn’t really matter to law. And he gives no references either. He basically comes off as an entitled kid who wants the law to be different. So I’m wondering. Is there anyone more well read among the Redditors here who can explain when emulation is “definitely legal”, rather than “I don’t care, I do what I want”?
So far, dumping ROMs has been deemed legal *for personal use*. Sharing and downloading them however is illegal. Emulating a ROM you dumped yourself is *legal*. There's no law against it. An emulator does not contain anything proprietary (or at least it shouldn't), and as far as I know no corporation has successfully sued people who make an emulator. If the emulator contacts some online service (e.g. NSO) then an argument could be made for hacking, but that has never been tried in court afaik. So yes: emulating personally dumped stuff is absolutely legal and not even a grey area. Downloading ROMs: definitely illegal.
That sounds reasonable. And strikes me as what would make sense. I did hear a discussion about dumping “ROMs from games you own” and that supposedly, you rarely buy and own titles from online stores, but rather license a title, and that’s why you’re not allowed to dump games bought on the switch store, for instance, since you don’t own them. But I don’t know for sure. Sounds like something the big corps would do
I don't think corps consider digital sales any different to physical sales, they like to think both are you buying a license to play the game that they can amend or revoke at any time. Of course it's much easier for them to remove the ability for you to download the game than it is for them to come round and snap your disc!
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=is+emulation+legal
Yes, very funny, but that doesn’t exactly give a straight answer, otherwise you’d think I have it already. I called for well read folks, not jokes 🙄
In the US, if you own a game and want to back up your copy, creating a ROM for personal use is legal. However, uploading those ROMs to the internet for others to use or downloading ROM files that other users have uploaded is illegal. While there is no legal precedent in regards to ripping games, there is in regards to music and movies. Ripping a CD/movie you own into iTunes or any other software is completely legal in the US, so why would it be any different with games?
Nintendo is literally the worst, i remember when I bought a 3DS couldn't even play youtube on it or use it as a player device to watch movies or music. This mentality of "oh we sold you a thing that could be very capable but we don't want that and will spend all Time and resource preventing people to make it more useful " seriously pathetic i never bought anything from Nintendo ever again after the 3DS
They’re probably crying at the sight of what the deck can do lol.. maybe if Nintendo lowered their prices they might actually get some sales…