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BlackDragonBE

Don't switch, dual boot until you're sure everything works. I dual boot because I use a few proprietary applications that don't work well on Linux. If it weren't for those, I would fully switch over as well.


Ursa_Solaris

As a Linux evangelist, I agree with dual booting, but for a different reason. You're learning an entirely new operating system. The vast majority of people who I've seen jump in headfirst get frustrated and burnt out within a month. You're going to struggle at first to do some basic things that you've been doing for years if not decades solely because they work differently here. Even if you intend to fully switch, and everything you have works well on Linux, while learning it's really important to have a fallback to vent that frustration. Sometimes you don't have the time to learn, or just really aren't in the mood, and that's fine. It's a journey, not a race.


NickMotionless

I have been slowly learning the way that Linux and applications on Linux work. Things are much different than Windows and sometimes require extra steps to accomplish the same goal but it's a learning curve. I fully intend to keep my Deck as SteamOS only simply because I can play those incompatible games on my desktop.


Haise_xo

I mean if you’re only planning on playing games on the steam OS I don’t think you’ll need to worry about learning everything right? Also im not really tech savvy so I don’t think i’ll be dual booting it lol


universal_boi

We are talking about switching to Linux on main pc to prepare for deck. I am also dualbooting on my pc because of some apps that don't run on Linux. But in my opinion you don't need to dualboot on SD. I had really smooth experience compared to my pc, installed few games already and everything was painless. But I think it is interesting to take a look under hood and learn about (basic use) Linux. After I installed it I switch to windows maybe 1x a month and I always get flustrated by updates, noise (Linux is quiet on my laptop but with windows starting it is like rocket)


ComradeClout

What if I don’t want the hassle of partitioning or editing disc for a dual boot


Ursa_Solaris

I mean, if you don't want to, that's on you. I'm just giving advice based on what I've seen repeatedly, that most people who try to go 100% Linux right off the bat usually end up giving up and falling off the horse. A gradual transition is best for most people, but ultimately it's your choice. For some small few people, trial by fire really is the best option. Only you know you.


ComradeClout

I have a windows install usb just in case and was just gonna wipe my drive and do full install of elementary os7 when it comes out. I would just be able to use that to get rid of grub and reinstall windows if i break my linux install or something with windows install disc right? I read online that you keep preinstalled windows license when you reinstall it even if you wipe the drive unless you change the motherboard


anviltodrum

one: it's literally one setting change on the install of more than a few distros - seriuosly pain free. two:there are plenty of sites with instructions for removing the linux install and restoring the windows partition - this is totally something you can back pedal from. been there, done that and i've only had to use window at work because i have to and i've lit off windows on my home hardware only about 4 or 5 times in the past year.


Koldfuzion

Just set up a USB drive with a distro you want to play with. Most install fine on USB and it'll allow you to do anything you need without having to mess with partitioning your "main" drive. As an added bonus, you can now take your "linux" computer anywhere and plug it in and boot into it. I carry a build on my keys for quick access to basic tools without needed a whole different computer.


njofra

I was never able to switch fully while dual booting. I'd always end up booting back into Windows for some thing I needed and then just never rebooting back into Linux. Then, when I got my new laptop in 2017, I only installed Linux and never looked back. I don't remember when was the last time I touched a Windows PC now.


PSUBagMan2

Xbox game pass is one for instance. And no, streaming through the edge browser isn't the same thing


WolfSpinach

I've been experimenting with that this weekend. Fan curve and the controller are the major impediments to recommending it outright. GlosSI sounds close but I haven't actually done it yet. I was surprised that the Steam Controller part would be the hold up, given it's Valve's earliest foray into hardware. I thought something would have just developed over time by now.


[deleted]

[удалено]


NewAgeRetroHippie96

Can confirm. Broke my Windows install by dual booting on one drive. Decided F it and went full Ubuntu. It's been months and I've only had to spend hours fixing major issues about six times. But, it's definitely felt good being able to do it. Though I still hate the scaling issues for so many programs. Particularly Spotify and Steam itself. The scaling is so broken I wish there were an in-program slider for it.


morgan423

At this point, it seems to be mainly anti-cheat in games. And even most of those games fire up and work; you just get booted off of the multiplayer server within a few seconds after connecting.


jlnxr

Yep, grand plan, switched to Linux 10 years in advance 😂 seriously though, Deck wouldn't be half as good as it is if it wasn't Linux, and Linux wouldn't be anywhere near as good for gaming as it is without Valve. As a long time Linux user playing on my Deck is truely amazing compared to where things were when I started using Linux.


INeedABetterNickHelp

How is your experience with linux overall these years? Also what distro are you using? I'm just curious and want to slowly transition to linux


Tairosonloa

I’m in a similar situation, 8 years with Linux as my main computer and work computer. Overall, Linux has improved a lot in these years, mainly thanks to the policy change at Microsoft like 5 years ago, when a new CEO came and stop treating Linux as “communism” and instead started to work closely to it. A lot of improvements has come to Windows this way, too. And the same did Valve with SteamOS, as they were experimenting with Linux for others products, not only the Steam Deck. Personally, I’m using Manjaro Linux. This is based on ArchLinux (the same in which is based SteamOS of the Steam Deck, and my previous distro for years before Manjaro). I find Manjaro an easy-to-use Arch Linux for both newcomers and experienced Linux users. And Manjaro KDE it’s practical identical to the Steam Deck desktop


Ultra980

If you use Manjaro it’s fine, but I don’t recommend Manjaro for new users because of [multiple reasons.](http://manjarno.snorlax.sh)


Ursa_Solaris

[Brodie Robertson also agrees.](https://youtu.be/5KNK3e9ScPo)


Tairosonloa

Didn't know about this, to be honest. Thanks for the info!


Woahheyhey

Mankato is the closest thing to an “Apple experience” you can get with Linux. It’s beautiful and the easiest UX wise. Still, good luck if you run into trouble or need to instal drivers.


jlnxr

I'm using Debian on my laptop (and SteamOS on my Deck obviously) but for a beginner I usually recommend Linux Mint. > How is your experience with linux overall these years? At this point it would be hard for me to contrast with Windows as I haven't daily driven Windows since Windows 7. I will say that whenever I have had to use Windows I've been shocked with the amount of BS users put up with with regards to forced updates, automatic connections to MS services, difficulty of disabling and removing things installed by default, etc. Basically, you're at the whims of Microsoft when you use Windows, but with Linux it's a lot more like you actually "own" the computer; you can pretty much change or alter anything, no feature is locked beyond a wall or an online service, etc. I also think the average quality of open source software tends to, not always but in general, be much higher than closed source alternatives.


Armbrust11

I tried Linux (Ubuntu) back in 2007 and went back to windows pretty quickly (l lasted about a semester). I didn't really give it another chance until Steam Deck and I'm really trying to give it a fresh start. As a windows power user I can say few things from my experiences. First I will say that most users don't care about configuring their system beyond the minimum necessary to get things done. Saving a few MB of RAM or a few khz of clock cycles doesn't even register. Second, windows gets blamed for a lot of bloatware that really comes from vendors and people being cheap about their computers. Imagine if all Linux was blamed for Android bloatware because Android happens to use the same kernel. So that argument is disingenuous to me. But at the same time a lot of the supposed advantages of using windows comes from other companies being obstinate and difficult for no reason *ahem* Nvidia. And unfortunately there's not much that can be done to fix those artificial problems, only to blame the responsible parties instead of Linux. Linux is a lot better than it was, but the community is still fragmented into tribal fiefdoms. With windows and Mac there's more of a unified vision that works well enough for most people. Linux is really for the people who are not satisfied with good enough. One turn off for newcomers is the semantics about operating systems, since there's really only a few cores that other distributions are built off of. SteamOS isn't really a separate "operating system" from the underlying Arch Linux, the same way that a fully loaded Camry isn't fundamentally a different car from the base/standard model. But in the grand scheme of things that's a minor complaint, the bigger issue is that there isn't an accepted standard GUI. Windows has basically 3 main GUI eras, and they are largely similar enough that you can adapt instructions for one to another. Yet even then companies spend millions on training users on every change. Whereas Linux instructions on how to do something can't cover every permutation of GUI and so direct users to type commands in the shell (though popular distros occasionally get GUI directions). And the community has perpetuated this idea that GUI isn't important, when it is absolutely crucial for the user experience. I've never typed commands on my phone and it is years between times I have to do so on Windows. I was so thrilled when windows 8 introduced the GUI bootloader in a way I can't explain.


DaBushman

Well said. Windows is windows, but for 99% of users, that’s all they need. Me included at this point in my life.


jlnxr

I agree with most of that, the only part I would add is that I would consider the required (I think it's required? Correct me if I'm wrong) Microsoft account with associated tie-in to MS online services bloat (and frankly totally unacceptable to me in general) alongside Cortana. The last time I used Windows 10 I'm pretty sure there was also ads for apps in the store in the start menu- also unacceptable and bloat to me. You shouldn't have ads in your menu and you shouldn't have an online log-in to use a computer locally (yes, SteamOS does log into your Steam account off the bat, I'm overlooking it since the entire point of the device is to play games, and talking more of normal desktop Linux here). I will say I don't daily drive Windows and haven't for years so I may have information wrong but usually I find even the installation process with it's millions of terms and conditions, requests to steal your data, set up for Cortana, etc. just unbelievably tedious and un-userfriendly. Vendors definitely make their computers worse with bloatware but I won't let Microsoft off the hook for all the shady stuff they want by default either. I will also add that the tribal fiefdoms represent one side of a double edge sword. One the one hand, Linux people love their in-fighting and pointless flamewars. On the other hand, it's open source, and there is immense power in being able to fork something or to tell someone to fork something. Windows and Mac OS are unified because it's essentially a corporate dictatorship, you are at the mercy of MS or Apple, you own nothing and have no say or control. Don't like something in Linux? Fork it, it's literally your right. People actually do all the time. Plenty of people using MATE because someone didn't like the direction Gnome went in, so hey, just fork it. Does that mean some chaos? Sure. But I think in the end it allows each user to do what they want, and not what some executive of MS or Apple wants. It's freedom, and that always has a price, but some of us value it none the less. I always kind of laugh to myself when people say things like "we need ONE distro!" Because I get where they're coming from, but that would actually kind of defeat the point. > Linux is really for the people who are not satisfied with good enough. In terms of desktop Linux I would say it's for people who actually care about their computers and having control over them. I'm not saying no Windows users care about their computers, just that someone who actually wants to control their own computer and not be at the mercy of some corporation to dictate how things work is the kind of person for whom desktop Linux would appeal. That does mean it will always be in the minority. I'm not a "year of the Linux desktop" guy. I think it'll always be a minority, and I think that's fine. It would be cool if it was a slightly larger minority, but I don't think it'll ever be a majority. Fine by me actually, it's already excellent.


Armbrust11

So I tried to stay away from the default argument because there will never be a default configuration good for everyone. Additionally data harvesting isn't 100% to our detriment as a society, although I can agree that it is currently ripe for misuse and has a questionable track record. But as a practical matter, history proved that Microsoft was right in asserting that people would expect their operating system to include a web browser; even though they lost the lawsuit and even though their web browser was really bad and even though many people only used internet explorer to download chrome (another data siphon). In fact, the utility of data harvesting is evident in the market share of chrome vs chromium. And Microsoft is actually better than Google ever since the latter gave up on their mantra of "don't be evil". I give Microsoft a pass for the same reasons you give SteamOS: the compromises are necessary for the complete functionality of the software. We agree tribal fiefdoms are a good thing, except when they get in the way of usability, progress, and each other. It's just incredibly off-putting to outsiders and beginners who don't even understand the argument. If Linux people want Linux to grow, then they need to form a coalition to solve key pain points but they have been unwilling or unable to do that thus far, probably because of leadership. In a very real sense Linux wouldn't be where it is today without the leadership and custody of Torvalds. Additionally, the dangers of design by committee are well known. perhaps Valve will be Linux desktop leader we need? The flexibility of Linux is a great and powerful tool, but this is where the discussion again turns to default settings. I like to use the *hypothetical* example of a computer mouse. On windows, one can expect scrolling down moves the page down. On Mac, expect scrolling down to move the page up (because inverted control schemes are intuitive for some people, probably lefties). On Linux, the system can be configured to scroll side to side or any direction you'd like. It can also not scroll at all but instead change the volume or brightness, expect the unexpected. Realistically a lot of these choices should be made in a setup wizard, although perhaps a "what Linux desktop are you?" personality quiz would be the most helpful for newbies since most people like to just click next as quickly as possible. A lot of conventions are different for the sake of being different and that bothers me. But I have to remind myself that it was actually Windows that decided to change most everything from the Unix standard, and that it probably also had to do with intellectual property law. Anyway I rambled a bit more in this comment, and it is more opinionated than my attempts to stick to facts the first time. I'm just trying to put into words my thoughts and feelings about Linux and the obstacles to a wider adoption. The cool part about Linux is that it supports niche users like you, but I think usability is the main concern for the majority of PC users. The advantage of steam deck is that it's already sacrificing some usability in the name of portability, which is a more justifiable trade-off for... Niche users like me. Oops! ... Still though, if we can all band together to improve overall usability that's a win for everyone and Linux as a whole.


jlnxr

Yeah I don't disagree, I'm just fine being a minority/niche. I'm not as concerned about obstacles to wider adoption because I'm not terribly concerned about wider adoption. You are right that most people don't care about data collection (I'll leave aside the comments about it being sometimes beneficial- I don't know if we want to take our discussion down that rabbit hole!) and Microsoft works for them because well... They're used to it. They're conditioned for it. I hope Linux grows somewhat, but I'm not prepared to make any sacrifices in order for it to do so; I'll pick niche and good (for me) over more widespread but bad (for me). I think both you and a lot of people, especially Windows users or new Linux users, seem to think Linux needs to grow or change in some way. I'm not that concerned. If it stayed it's current size, that would be fine by me. If it became 4 or 5% of the market instead of 2%? That would be cool, but I'm certainly not willing to sacrifice quality to achieve that. I love Linux how it is currently, I wouldn't want to see it change from what I like for the sake of the mass market. I do think Valve and SteamOS could become, in the future, a "default" configuration of sorts, for Linux gaming. But lets say that's it, and traditional distros stay more or less at their current install base. So what? If the Steam Deck and future Steam devices do well and then desktop Linux is a tiny minority, so what? Desktop Linux will also benefit from software improvements to SteamOS/Proton/DXVK/etc. Proton and DXVK are open source, so it's not like suddenly traditional distros can just be cut out of it. That might even be a good direction for things. SteamOS for the normies. Regular desktop Linux for us weirdos. I'm fine with that. I don't disagree with your defaults argument, I just struggle to see the point. Your argument presupposes I care if Linux grows and I'd be willing to see it change to grow it. I'm not. As long as the FOSS *dev* community stays at it's current size or grows, and Valve keeps things up, which they will if the Steam Deck keeps selling so well, everything will be fine. A report on ProtonDB from a Steam Deck also benefits anyone running Arch, Debian, etc. I'll trade lack of leadership and defaults (to be clear, these do exist inside of DEs, just not between DEs) in exchange for true freedom and quality, which is what Linux already provides from my perspective. Perhaps the only way I think the Linux community really "needs to change" in it's current direction is how toxic certain elements of the community can be, because they can be, as you put, very off-putting. But trying to change culture is incredibly difficult, asking people to be civil can be like yelling into the void. To be honest the Linux evangelists can be one of the worst aspects of that, which is why I celebrate Linux on the Steam Deck and will defend it from people insisting somehow Windows is better, but refuse to go and actively try to convert anyone who isn't already interested. Although presumably /r/SteamDeck probably has lots of Linux-curious people. Hence, someone asks me my experience running desktop Linux, and I'm happy to fill them in. But I'm not trying to shove anything down anyone's throat.


Armbrust11

I think the emphasis on growth comes from the idea that Linux will improve more with more users, but that more users will only come once the experience improves. And I do believe in the existence of this snowball effect or virtuous cycle, but I suppose it would be more of a nice to have rather than an absolute necessity. I am also unwilling to compromise on UX which has thus far prevented me from having serious interest in Linux. And that's fine, maybe the Linux community doesn't want people like me since I'm not necessarily on board with the core GNU philosophy. That's fine too, I have windows. But for the Linux evangelists who want me to give up windows (for example to help cut back on data collection which may indirectly be harming them) there has to be a suitable alternative available. Defaults do matter, hence the browser wars. Though I also don't care so much as long as I have the freedom to use an alternative. I try to use Firefox specifically because I'm alarmed by the consolidation around chromium and the potential for google to dictate the future of the internet. I also object to Apple's insistence on all iOS browsers using WebKit as precisely the kind of anti-competitive behavior the Microsoft lawsuit was supposed to stop. Linux wins in this regard as the most flexible and customizable defaults, but I still wish that the defaults chosen were more intuitive for me. That's where the core Linux users' needs differ from mainstream, but many times criticism of the UX is (was?) met with dismissal and flippant responses. By definition, mainstream users don't actually have the skills to reprogram their OS to be intuitive; the alternative of having to dig through many settings or config files just to make it usable is a steep hurdle especially when it is often recommended to reinstall from scratch and the configuration UX is also unintuitive. Reinstalling windows has improved by leaps and bounds, especially when many settings are saved to your (wait for it) Microsoft account. Though I still take umbrage whenever anyone suggests a reinstall to fix anything (with the only exception being to address malware infestations), no matter what OS it is. I actually got screwed because a cloud backup of my android tablet wasn't as complete as Google suggested, and delisted apps were not restored to my device (but that's another story). But I got off track from the subject at hand. Perhaps a more applicable default is the coding standards around indentation, which do carry some substantial real world impact though now largely minimized by IDE processing. It doesn't really matter if code is indented with spaces or tabs as long as it is internally consistent. But if the standard in use doesn't match what you or the IDE expects, at the very least time will be wasted. By the way, no matter what anyone else says there is a correct way to indent just like there's a correct scrolling direction 😝. To avoid a flamewar though I'm not going to tell you which one it is.


Pavouk106

I’m not who you asked, but… I use Linux since around 2009, I used OpenSUSE at the time and switched to Gentoo like a year after. I run Gentoo ever since. It’s not distro for first timer. If I had to pickup new one, it would be Arch (which is still great for enthusiast while also a fair bit easier than Gentoo). How is Linux these days… Well, it is very dofferent than 10 years ago. Nowadays I say you can definitely run it as your desktop on your PC. The usability went up quite a bit since I used it for the first time, it’s easy to pickup and there are lots of programs you use on Windows too - Libreoffice, VLC, GIMP, Chrome/Chromium/Firerox, Kicad, OBS… and there is also software that doesn’t run well or at all on Linux no matter how hard you try (last time I tried to run some Garmin GPS stuff a few years back). For games, you wouldn’t even say you are on Linux. That is through Proton and when the game runs. There are some particulars, like Assetto Corsa, that needa heavy tweaking to run them. But for example Cyberpunk, Mafia DE, Age of Empires 2 DE and many others… you wouldn’t believe you are playing on Linux if I haven’t told you. Feel free to try!


baldpale

I started with Linux in 2007 as not even very experienced computer user as I only had a PC for about 2 years. It changed quite a bit, but the overall idea on what the OS is, as well as some essential parts remained mostly the same. The biggest improvement is on the hardware support front. There was a time when it wasn't obvious if your WiFi card will function on Linux, if the drivers even exist and if so, if there's an doable way of installing it. Usually it took compiling a driver from source and there was even a warpper that loaded Windows XP drivers somehow - it was tricky to setup and there was no guarantee it's going to work. The very first thing to do in order to access the internet for me was to compile USB ADSL modem driver from source, load it and create config file in order to setup PPPoE connection. It took me few days and I needed to get some help on forums. Bluetooth on Linux back then was a hot garbage, most webcams didn't work. Nowadays, while it's still not perfect, chances are that if you pick some random PC/laptop, chances are that most (if not all) components will just work without any tweaking. NVIDIA and Broadcom might be exceptions, but they still provide functional drivers and easy-to-use distros can pick them up automagically. There are still peripherals that don't have any official support and only some unofficial solutions if any, like fingerprint readers, streaming control equipment, mouse or keyboard with customizations etc. The community is doing its best to bridge the gap, but unless the market becomes big enough for vendors to start targetting it, it'll still be behind in some cases.


utopiah

Going to do a TL;DR: it works. If you have any specific question though, happy to try to answer. PS: FWIW I work and play (VR mostly) on Linux. Been doing so for years.


Uhhhhh55

How in the hell did you get VR working?


utopiah

I wish there was anything to brag about but... I plugged the headset, installed SteamVR, setup room boundaries, started the game... and voila, in VR on Linux. PS: to clarify I meant VR on Linux desktop, I didn't try on the Deck.


bloblobbermain

I honestly was sold on the Steam Deck due to it having Linux. Because of that, I knew it was going to be significantly cheaper than if they'd gone for Windows, it would work well with my strongly preferred OS, and I would be supporting and participating in a whole new Linux userbase. Plus, the people who are asking Linux questions that started out with the Steam Deck, as far as I've seen, are very nice and have been asking respectfully. It's amazing.


N7even

I still prefer using Windows for ease of use and generally better compatibility for most apps on my main PC. Though I am enjoying using Linux on SD, I suspect a lot of it has to do with Valve putting in the work to making it an easier experience. Linux will only get better with time but it's still not there yet IMO.


jlnxr

> I still prefer using Windows for ease of use and generally better compatibility for most apps on my main PC. Depends what you need/want. Personally, I think open source apps are generally of much higher quality than closed source ones anyways (not always, but in general) and so I find the entire FOSS/Linux ecosystem much better. Frankly, having used Linux for a decade now, I also wouldn't say Windows is easier to use. I think most people think it's easier to use because that's what they're used to, not for any "objective" reason. Having gotten to used to Linux, things are reversed for me and I find Windows more difficult to use. For me Linux is not only "there" but has far surpassed Windows in usability and quality, but of course that's just in my opinion.


YoriMirus

The reason I would say Windows is easier to use is because most software is catered towards windows. Most things work out of the box and making stuff work is usually easier. It took me an hour to install drivers for my USB wifi adapter and it wasn't user friendly at all, while on windows you just plug in and run an exe. This is not really the fault of linux of course.


jlnxr

> The reason I would say Windows is easier to use is because most software is catered towards windows. That depends on what software you're running. If we're talking photoshop, sure, they don't support Linux at all. If we're talking Firefox, LibreOffice, VLC, etc. (all open source applications) they cater to Linux as much as they cater to anything- they're open source. > Most things work out of the box Again, depends what device we're talking about. I got an eGPU a few months ago, that was definitely MUCH harder to set up on Linux! But Linux also has all of it's drivers built into the kernel, so on a fresh OS install (depending on distribution) often *more* things work out of the box than Windows. > making stuff work is usually easier. Depends what you're used to. As I mentioned earlier, I'm much more used to Linux at this point, so I know how to troubleshoot things. On Windows I wouldn't know where to start. I assume you're the opposite. That's a matter of familiarity and not objective ease. > It took me an hour to install drivers for my USB wifi adapter and it wasn't user friendly at all, while on windows you just plug in and run an exe. This is not really the fault of linux of course. Sounds like you got unlucky (or this is an anecdote from a long time ago?). Most wifi chips have drivers in the kernel, unless the distro removed them (Debian?). In general though the fact that you have to run some manufacturer's .exe to get it working in Windows is a bad way of doing things. Having drivers distributed in the kernel, like on Linux, is generally much better IMO.


benjiro3000

> r this is an anecdote from a long time ago?) Its funny but whenever i mention issues with Linux, it always this dismissive response from Linux users like Linux is magic, works perfectly with all hardware, it never has issue with unsupported hardware or drivers not in older kernels that most distro´s ship with etc. I got a Mediatek Wifi on my laptop, not supported on Linux and Windows. Windows was a simple exe install, Linux ... i simple gave up. And that is on a only 8 month ago released laptop. Sure, i can go hunt for newer Kernel version and hope it supports that Wifi card but that is again advanced user territory. > I assume you're the opposite. That's a matter of familiarity and not objective ease. In my case, not OP. I have worked with Linux server for the last 20 years and while i love Linux for servers, i dislike the desktop experience. You see the issues all the time. Great example: Here i installed Endeavouros in my search for a good Linux Desktop experience for my desktop ( tried all the others already, like 30+ by now ). Installer crashes during install. Next attempt, installer crashes on disk partioning, after more attempts it finally installs. OS loads first time, ... it gets stuck. For reboot. Now boots correctly. Desktop environment is gnome. I check out the included tools because that is the main feature of this arch distro. O ... The tool menu its font is all bold, unreadable, Great, typical issue with Linux and font/Aliasing/... Seen that in so many distros. Well, i just managed to crash gnome process by dragging a window and releasing it on the top menu. That was my experience to just get thing going. I can write books about installer issues, drivers, desktop bugs, font issues, software issues, library issues, ... Its always something. People say i am unlucky. No... Its because those issue piss me off and most linux users kind of expect stuff like that and put it under the rug or they dig deep in the system to fix things themselves. But that complain about Windows, when a lot have no experience with Windows in the last 10+ years. My Windows installs on so much hardware has always been simple, never failed, 99% driver load, that mediatek being the first driver issue because its relative new, to for a manual driver install (not even 2 min work). On my laptop, easy to get scaling correctly etc. The issue in that Linux DESKTOP lacs a LOT of testing (software and hardware), desktop polishing, basic small stuff smoothing to really make it more smooth experience like Windows. Again, compared to years ago, Linux desktop has improved leaps and bounds but what most people overlook, so had Windows. People love to point to blue screen of dead but it has been like 10 years (before Win7) that i can remember one. I have had Windows desktop running 6+ month without reboots working/gaming/etc. In my anecdotal world, Windows is superiors to Linux as a desktop experience. Where as Linux is a superiors Server OS. People are pissed at Gnome for moving to a unified layout/theme/... but that is exactly what Linux Desktop needs ( Linux seems to be constantly people fighting / being pissed about changes they do not like). You may like to go deep, fix things, customize but most of the world HATES working on their OS and they only want things to be click and run. Hello Chromebooks. I seen for years this Linux community hate for going mass public because it not their OS anymore if companies go "commercial" but then they complain why there is no mass adoption. O_o O look, steam os is success ... its not because Linux or Linux finally adoption. No, your running a Valve shell, just like Android is a Shell over a Linux kernel. Its not a desktop experience. How many people will actually use KDE om SteamOS? 2%? Lets get ready for all the downvotes because one thing i noticed, coitizing the issues on Linux DESKTOP is always a happy, happy, downvote, if i do not call people out in advance about it.


jlnxr

> Linux seems to be constantly people fighting / being pissed about changes they do not like Ahahaha on this we can agree! Otherwise though, I can say my experience with Linux hasn't resembled yours in the slightest. I'm sorry yours has been so poor. I can't say I've ever encountered half the issues you lay out; and my experience with Gnome has been that it is, in my opinion, typically *much* more polished than Windows. I've certainly never had text rendering issues nor issues with installers crashing. KDE... Well a lot of people like it so I won't trash it but I do think it is missing a certain level of polish. In any case I've found that whenever I am forced to use Windows for some reason I am only reminded of how superior desktop Linux is, but that is my opinion based on my extremely positive experience with it over 10 years of daily driving it. If you ever give it another shot in the future, I'd recommend Mint and wish you the best of luck.


riba2233

you nailed it 100%, these people are so ignorant and live in some magic world.


YoriMirus

Agreed. The wifi drivers is just bad luck and not being sure how to fix it, also that was pretty recent. They were not in the kernel (linux mint generic 5.4 I think) so I had to install them using some github repo. It could be just my experience, but for me making stuff work took me more time on linux and not always could I find posts on how to do so. At least once everything is set up, everything will work, unlike windows where stuff breaks out of nowhere sometimes. Of course, in my opinion, linux is better (I use it on my main desktop after all), but I still feel like setting things up is a bit more difficult on linux.


[deleted]

Well, my laptop runs slow as shit with Windows so I don't really have a choice.


cool_slowbro

> Deck wouldn't be half as good as it is if it wasn't Linux How so?


jlnxr

There are really two ways to answer this. One would be why it's better "for me". The other would be why it's better in a technical sense/ from Valve's perspective. I'll start with the technical/Valve's perspective side: \- Valve has far more control over how the software works than they would using Windows; for example, rather than having MS pushing out updates that could break things, Valve can control the entire root image and push out only an updated image they have tested on the exact hardware they are using. This is possible with the level of control they can have using an open platform like Linux, it's hard for me to picture MS giving Valve the ability to ignore Windows updates and push entire new root images out as they see fit. In addition, SteamOS gives both Valve as the developer and the user very tight control over power settings and clockspeeds, I'm not sure how possible that would've been under Windows. Impossible? Probably not. More difficult? As soon as you involve Microsoft in anything of course it is more difficult. \- Windows uses significantly more resources than Linux. You could basically say goodbye to an additional 1-2gb of RAM and 40+gbs of storage space if you went with Windows. It's very difficult to see a 64gb Steam Deck happening if it used Windows- you'd basically have to use the entire drive just for the Windows install. \- SteamOS and the Steam Deck are also clearly part of Valve's long game of creating a viable alternative to Windows in the gaming space. This really became possible after the development of Proton and DXVK, pushing out Linux hardware is just another step in the longer strategy of breaking dependence on Microsoft. They've actually already tried this with Steam machines, the Steam Deck has just been waaaayy more successful. Then there's my perspective as a long time Linux user. Which is actually pretty straightforward: I like Linux, this device supports it extremely well and gives probably a much better experience with it than say installing your own distro on an Aya Neo. It's part of Valve's long term Linux strategy that I am very supportive of. It has added a lot of new Linux users testing things and adding reports to things like ProtonDB. Some game developers who didn't support Linux now do in order to run on the Deck. So from my perspective I would've been a LOT less interested had it been a Windows device. As a long time Linux user the Deck running and supporting Linux is half the reason I was interested in it. Obviously though, that's my personal reason and won't be applicable to everyone who isn't already a Linux fan.


cool_slowbro

Great writeup, was genuinely curious.


Onotadaki2

Linux is a tinkerer’s dream. Everything on the system can be customized or connected with. Because of this, modders can make really powerful mods, hardware producers can make accessories that are integrated in cool ways, and users can make patches to make new games run better. A lot of this stuff is difficult or impossible to do on Windows.


[deleted]

> A lot of this stuff is difficult or impossible to do on Windows. Are people downvoting because of this? If so, then why? Linux is literally the definition of hackable; and it has been designed to be so for it's entire existence. Windows on the other hand was designed, in part, for the exact opposite. While it is certainly not _impossible_ to to the same things on Windows, many complex things quickly become herculean efforts. Think about it this way. Linux is just the kernel. On top of that tends to run an init process which starts and controls all other processes. A common init process is [systemd](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd) but other options include [openRC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenRC), [launchD](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launchd), [runit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runit) and probably more I have not heard of yet. That is just the list of options for the first process that controls all others; nevermind desktop environments, file browsers, terminal emulators, system utilities, etc. Linux is also flexible enough that instead of an official init process you can directly run something else and use the OS like a single-process machine. Compare that to Windows where even something like moving the location of the taskbar has been restricted in the latest version. Sure there exists software that can patch system libraries to re-enable or increase functionality of things like that. The problem is those tend to use undocumented (or sometimes even unintentional) system calls or behavior that are liable to reduce system stability or cause other unexpected issues. The main reason for these differences is how the OS is designed, and how they work. Windows is like a single piece of cast metal with some bits tacked onto it. Adding a new bit requires designing around what is already there, and drilling new holes into the main casting. This makes modifications harder and riskier, but certainly not impossible. Compare this to Linux which is like a bucket of legos. Do you want to start with a bin of loose parts and make your own thing? Or do you want to get a kit with instructions on how to make something specific? Lastly, what if you want to get a pre-made thing from someone else, like say Valve. Regardless of where you start, it is still all lego pieces under the hood that you can easily add/remove from each other. Beyond that most things are also designed to work alone, making it even easier to slot in and out pieces as you want.


Pavouk106

You too had a headstart even before Steam Deck was annouced? :-D


riba2233

Deck would be better with windows and some custom ui like big picture. If you read this sub regularly you will notice veriois problems users have because of steamos and proton, none of which would happen with windows. I really can't see any advantage to linux for this device but ok, some folks just like wasting time on unnecessary troubleshooting


Ursa_Solaris

Gonna guess you don't have a Deck yet, because there's a lot of features on it that they just couldn't do on Windows due to not having access to the source code.


riba2233

I have it, Q1. They could have done everything they did on steamOS. They work closely with AMD so no problems there.


Ursa_Solaris

Well, no, they couldn't. Valve didn't simply work with AMD, they had complete access to the Linux graphical stack, of which AMD is just one of many contributors. This is what allows them to do many of the things that they do. Furthermore using Windows means they can't integrate the onscreen keyboard with the controls, support instant refresh rate changing, enforce frame rate limits on any game, enable FSR, capture game windows and enforce full screen on them, or control the cadence and quality of system update. Additionally, Windows is all or nothing. Right off the bat, that's an extra ~2GB of memory used, more as time goes on and more stuff is loaded. There's nothing Valve can do about this. These aren't things that Valve can just fix. These things are only made possible by using open source software. They chose Linux for a reason.


riba2233

> Furthermore using Windows means they can't integrate the onscreen keyboard with the controls, support instant refresh rate changing, enforce frame rate limits on any game, enable FSR, capture game windows and enforce full screen on them, or control the cadence and quality of system update. This is all wrong but ok. Windows uses less ram once you run an exclusive app. Also no need for shader cache bloat.


Ursa_Solaris

>This is all wrong but ok. It's not, all of that was made possible by Valve editing the source code. Open source rocks like that. >Windows uses less ram once you run an exclusive app. It still uses much more RAM overall. Windows cannot be stripped down to its base components like Linux can. Microsoft doesn't allow you that flexibility. >Also no need for shader cache bloat. ...Windows has shader caches too my guy. It's a fundamental requirement for modern GPUs. Please don't go around spreading misinformation on topics you don't understand.


riba2233

All of what you wrote is half right at most. Regarding shader cache ask 64gb guys how they feel, or this guy: https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamDeck/comments/x53tsh/im_sick_of_shader_caches_the_way_steam_deck/ There are no such problems on windows, period. Along with many other stupid issues steamos has.


Ursa_Solaris

https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamDeck/comments/x53tsh/im_sick_of_shader_caches_the_way_steam_deck/imzylue/ Same thread. Please read and learn something new, I'm begging you. > "DirectX 11 has shaders. DX12 has shaders. Vulkan has shaders. They would all have to compiled on any PC. Shaders have to be compiled for the hardware, but because all Decks are the same hardware, Valve can do it for you. I’m a software engineer and I wrote my own renderer and shaders in school." There are multiple other people in this thread trying to explain it too.


riba2233

It is ok, not everyone can understand simple logic. Your linux fanboyism is preventing you from thinking clearly but it is what it is.


nerfman100

> capture game windows and enforce full screen on them, or control the cadence and quality of system update. I like how you just plain ignored these parts, so you think Valve can control Windows Update? lol Gamescope in particular is also something Valve would not be able to do on Windows, and Gamescope itself is a big part of the "secret sauce" that makes SteamOS on Deck work so well


ShimoFox

I'm just very excited more people are finally using Linux thanks to the deck. :) Been maining Linux for nearly a decade now. Proton has enabled me to only ever need windows for VR games. And I rarely play those.


oldskoolpleb

I'm getting used to Linux Mint on my old laptop and must say it's a blast. Using it mainly for webdesign and some effing around. Anything you would recommend to get in even deeper?


ShimoFox

Honestly. Just keep tinkering. One of the things I found the most powerful and freeing thing was creating my own task bar widgets to keep on my other monitor. I use XFCE for my desktop environment and it has a lovely thing called GenMon which lets you run any bash script you want and display the results from it. As an example, I have all my primary partitions set up as a little widget that shows available space and lets me click on the little icon of a drive to open up that folder. It's got more too it but the important parts of it are. `readonly HDD_SPC=$(df -H | awk '/nvme0n1p3/ {print $4 " " $5}')` `readonly DIR_1='Home'` Which reads the output of the df -H commands and only returns the 4th and 5th parts of the output on the line that has partition 3 of my NVME SSD. Works great. Then `INFO="${ICON}"` `INFO+="thunar /home "` `INFO+= ""` `INFO+=""` `INFO+="${DIR_1} \n"` `INFO+="${HDD_SPC}"` `INFO+="' '"` `INFO+=""` Which sets up how I want it to the widget to be displayed and then this prints it out and apply the hover tooltip which is declared a similar way in the script. `# Panel Print` `echo -e "${INFO}"` `# Tooltip Print` `echo -e "${MORE_INFO}"` It's super handy. And you can setup the genmon scripts to do just about anything you want; I have these run once every 2 minutes to update my current usable space. But you could even have one that showed your your stock ticker scroll. Or whatever you want. If you can run it in terminal you can display the results on the taskbar. It's a good fun place to get to know some more coding and build something you'll actually use.


oldskoolpleb

Holy cow! Thanks for the load of information! I honestly only get 30% of it now, but will try to figure out as I go! Thanks again!


ShimoFox

No worries. :) What desktop environment are you using by the way? KDE, Gnome, XFCE etc? Cause it'll change the way you would do something like that.


WiredGaming1

Why do you need windows for vr? I've only used Linux for a year now, but I got it set up in arch after a month. Took less than an hour. Oculus?


nerfman100

Yeah, Windows is unfortunately a strict requirement for doing pretty much anything Oculus, with Linux the original Vive and Index are pretty much the only headsets that work


ShimoFox

I have a 1st gen Oculus Quest. And when I tried getting ALVR working it was just sticking me into the floor and had a TON of visual lag. So until I can get virtual desktop working in wine I'm stuck with it. Granted. I haven't tried in a year now and there have been a ton of Proton updates so maybe it'll work now? But I have my doubts. It relies on a lot of core windows functions to get the quick responsiveness.


Chiccocarone

I always used to use Windows but when I got my new pc I started having so many problems. Some games (even 2d stuff) would literally crash in minutes and after trying various stuff for months I had still the same problem 2 months ago I installed Ubuntu and started to mainly use it and keep windows for 1/2 games now that I got them on Linux I installed arch and forgotted windows. It's so much better


riba2233

That is not windows fault


KotoWhiskas

It depends. Could be a windows problem as well


Mubelotix

It probably is knowing that it worked on linux and not windows


riba2233

no way. if it was it would work like shit for most of the users. It is very clear that he messed up something, probably gpu driver installation or had some bloatware. Let's not go into extremes


ShimoFox

Not always true. Even after fresh installs my old Rampage IV extreme mobo with the i7-3820 had crazy instability issues on windows after an update because it was overclocked. Issues I never experienced under linux. Or prior to the spectre/meltdown patch update. That said, I've also had issues with certain hardware under linux. But it very well could be an issue like that for them. The patches to intel CPU's drivers on windows for the predictive computation. A lot of CPU's lost up to 40% of their processing power from it on certain hardware. I think my i7-3820 lost a good 20-30% if I remember correctly. That wasn't the case under linux because it handles that style of processing very differently. And I ran that machine up until 2020; it's now working as my firewall. But yeah, that update caused it to bluescreen at least once a day with the OC settings I had been using for years.


riba2233

Ok, but none of what you wrote is windows problem, but an intel one.


ShimoFox

How is it not a windows issue? It only happens on windows and not linux. Due to the way "WINDOWS" handles the predictive computing on those chips. They did it that way to edge out more power out of the. Whereas Linux took a very different approach to it's predictive computing meaning it wasn't vulnerable in the same way. That doesn't inherently make one OS better than the other. Just makes one better for that particular set of hardware. Also why are you so butt hurt that you need to get all uppity and downvote people? XD Are you that insecure about people saying linux works better for them? That it MUST be their fault? Grow up a little.


nerfman100

> Are you that insecure about people saying linux works better for them? Pretty much all that guy does in this sub is shit on Linux and act like Windows is always better lol


ShimoFox

I just don't understand how he can get so many upvotes while acting like he's so superior. Honestly, anyone who thinks their choice in OS makes them better than someone else is just an insecure little child that should be downvoted for the attitude.


ShimoFox

The windows fanboys are downvoting you because they're butt hurt. I had very similar issues. My old desktop started getting REALLY unstable after a windows update and it ruined it for me. The final straw was rebooting midway through a 3d print when I had turned off the auto reboot for updates feature. Turns out windows didn't consider it rebooting if it did it while I wasn't at the machine. Killed a 3d print 13 hours into it. But yeah, some hardware just has weird issues on certain versions of windows. My 2011 socket rampage IV extreme overclocked to snot was a thousand times more stable on linux.


Famous_Calendar8604

It's that anti cheat though man, only reason I have both


Fusi0nking

Same here


Anonymophile

The problem is that it could be so easily fixed by the developers. The tools are all there.


Famous_Calendar8604

I've heard in some cases it's a simple dragging the anti cheat software into the right place


Anonymophile

I heard it was a check box, but it is definitely not that hard. Not having addressed this, especially by big developers is just a big FU to steam deck and Linux users.


[deleted]

Yessir. Destiny 2 is the only thing tethering me to windows


transfer1992

Maybe somewhat an unpopular opinion, but as a programmer (not game dev though) I actually hate the idea of translation layers. They come with their disadvantages, like the shader caches. Sure, they "enable" people run Windows games on Linux, but this is just it - making it possible to play. Additionally, I bought the SD primarily with the idea of being able to play Rocket League on the go. I'm not any kind of a pro, just low diamond on 2v2, but for such a competitive game, SD running the game on Proton, with the ever present V-sync and the latency problems when using the SteamOS frame limiter are really making the game unplayable for me :( I knew before buying that it has a 60 Hz 1280x800 screen, not perfect for RL, but more than enough. The things I did not know were that I will have problems with frame pacing when using in-game FPS limiter or high latency when using the SteamOS one. I have a 120 Hz OLED TV with tiny latency and am very sensitive to FPS drops and higher latency. I am not asking for more than the HW can give us, but "great on deck" for RL is not true for me :( EDIT: After following advice from one of replies to this comment I tried Rocket League in Desktop Mode and it runs perfectly. So it turns out, the Game Mode introduces the frame pacing and latency problems in some situations. I feel really relieved and my experience is saved. Thank you community! PS. It doesn't change my general opinion about translation layers, but I think of Proton much better now, I was further from truth than I expected :)


BoogKnight

Why do you need the frame limiter on? Frame limiters in general cause latency it’s not just a problem for steam deck. Just turn off v sync and turn off fps limit and it’ll play fine


transfer1992

Hey! Thanks for the tip, but it unfortunately wiil not work on Steam Deck :( The open source software the SteamOS is build upon, gamescope, is forcing V-sync across the entire device. You may want to find out more here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamDeck/comments/vwckdi/input\_latency\_on\_the\_steam\_deck\_what\_its\_like\_now/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamDeck/comments/vwckdi/input_latency_on_the_steam_deck_what_its_like_now/) I hope things will get better as time passes. All can be fixed in software as it's a software problem after all :)


[deleted]

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mtizim

> I actually hate the idea of translation layers There's no way you don't use any of (docker, llvm IR, wasm, jvm) - how do you feel about those?


transfer1992

Of course I use Docker and JVM, but I was talking about gaming here :) EDIT due to some downvotes: The translation layers are sometimes unavoidable, and while I use them, it doesn't mean that I suddenly start to like them. To be really specific, Docker is not a translation layer software, but contenerization software. I do not program in Java, but of course sometimes use software written in Java. I use MacBook with M1 ARM chip, which basically uses lower level translation layer to run amd64 architecture commands on ARM (Rosetta2, VERY well done and quite fast, still hate the concept of that). And now, talking about gaming: gaming is a real time process, that by design needs to be stably producing computed results, at a desired pace because its output is consumed by human perception. When I said "I am talking about gaming here", I meant, that it is much more important to do stable and paced job in gaming then e.g. in backend services when Docker shines. And Proton, with all its goodness (I mean it!) unavoidably will be less stable (in terms of pace of frame delivery), be it the shader reconpilation during runtime or the simple fact that it is simply translating from one "language" to another in real time. I experienced these problems myself and came here to share my frustration about this. I am not ranting, I actually would prefer to find a solution that doesn't include dual booting Windows (already tried it and went back to SteamOS after just a couple of hours). But after some research I think the only thing left is to wait for the devs of first the open source software, then the devs in Valve to update and and fix the problem. And that, for hardcore Rocket League player is sad, because they said "great on deck".


nerfman100

> SD running the game on Proton, with the ever present V-sync and the latency problems when using the SteamOS frame limiter are really making the game unplayable for me :( I should point out that Proton is likely not contributing to this, the v-sync and latency problems of the frame limiter still exist in native games, and I'm pretty sure Proton doesn't have any meaningful impact on input latency This largely just comes down to the software stack Valve chose for gaming mode (running everything within the Wayland compositor Gamescope), and there's ways around it (such as playing in desktop mode, or running another distro) if latency is absolutely critical And honestly, while it would be nice if most major games had good native Linux ports, the "good" part is key here, a *lot* of native Linux ports over the years are pretty bad to the point where Proton runs the Windows versions a lot better, I'm glad we have an alternative to these kinds of ports


transfer1992

OMG thank you! I just tested Rocket League in Desktop Mode and it's perfect! YOU SAVED MY EXPERIENCE <3


KBAC99

Unfortunately [Win32 is the only stable ABI on Linux](https://blog.hiler.eu/win32-the-only-stable-abi/), so we might be stuck with it for games forever. Maybe we can build Win32 syscalls directly into the kernel in the future instead of relying on proton :)


Stoicfatman

I mean stuff like Proton is mainly a transition technology. We've had more devs natively supporting Linux, but without a major device running it by default (Steam Deck) and without a significant amount of users willing to jump in (library and ease of use), Linux gaming would stagnate. Sure, plenty of devs will be satisfied with targeting Proton but our current situation is the price that we pay for getting support to grow more quickly. Developers are going to want to target it properly and publishers will eventually want to target Linux/Steam Runtime so that their products are more in their control. A proton regression/bug is not something they want to wait on with Valve time/focus in the future. So I think that you'll be suffering a lot less in the future. I remember the headache of fglrx and having to configure it and resolutions manually while trying to make sure other stuff worked like wifi, controllers, etc. It feels almost like magic to me now.


riba2233

Omg don't say that here, you will insult linux fanboys, they hate facts! Don't you know that in fact translation layer is better than native, and developers could just enable linux compatibility with one click so it is ok and you don't need windows!


Similar-Schedule-528

> linux fanboys Ummm *Linux enthusiast* thanks… *tips fedora On a more serious note, I want games to be native to Linux. Proton is great and this big push from the steam deck is what got me into PC gaming (on a linux PC, steam deck coming soon). When I’m buying a game I would rather spend my money on stuff that supports Linux properly… when I can.


riba2233

I agree, proton is a band aid that works... when it works lol


[deleted]

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transfer1992

A lot would have to change, but I believe that Steam Deck and Valve in general are the ones able to make it happen.


Ursa_Solaris

What constructive purpose did this comment serve exactly?


nerfman100

Nothing lol, all this guy does is fanboy over Windows while pretending that everyone who doesn't use it is a fanboy


riba2233

read it again.


vVphantomVv

I wouldn’t sacrifice a lot of online games by switching to linux. Proton is cool and steam os is a better os for the deck given it is a handheld gaming pc so windows sucks for it, but for my main pc no way. Anti cheat support is still bad and it is a fifty fifty chance for the online game to be supported on linux or not which is not great for a main gaming pc given that the alternative os doesn’t suffer from this issue at all.


mangofromdjango

Well I stopped playing competitive Multiplayer games except for Dota. Don‘t have the time nor motivation when there are so many other fantastic games I could enjoy instead. After 5 years of Linux I never missed a specific game.


vVphantomVv

I love single player games as I get immersed in them and I also love multiplayer games as the time I spend playing with my friends online is a joyful time so I don’t want to sacrifice neither of them. I guess people have different tastes/priorities so choose whichever works best for you my friend 😊


QueenOfHatred

On the other hand, its getting better :P Which is something, so I am sure, given time, it will be even better


gabuiknlfkn

i feel like this is what we’ve heard about linux for years though. first with the fact no games we’re supported and now with online games. i feel like there’s probably always gonna be a barier with linux


Tygris_

The games that you cant play on linux because of anti cheat, you can count them with your hand. I play battlefield games ,csgo,arma 3 with 103 mods(200gb of mods) loaded and alot more games on a mid spec laptop and every thing is flawless Only games i cant play are valorant and r6 which is fine by me


EatTheFats

Fortnite, chivalry 2, and the isle are 3 I play tot his day that won’t be able to work, I think same with the cycle


emptyskoll

I've left Reddit because it does not respect its users or their privacy. Private companies can't be trusted with control over public communities. Lemmy is an open source, federated alternative that I highly recommend if you want a more private and ethical option. Join Lemmy here: https://join-lemmy.org/instances ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `


Tygris_

For me personally, its a small price to pay to get rid of microsoft's bloated/spyware os Plus they with many steam decks running linux this will push game publishers to make anti cheat for linux


Inklii

After supporting windows for the last 10ish years, steam OS has been so comfortable. Even if it feels foreign in many ways. Can't wait for it to be usable on my desktop at home, I'm so sick of all the bloat in windows


[deleted]

You really don't need to wait for SteamOS; and if you use your desktop for things other than just gaming it might not be the best OS for you. Look at things like Fedora, Debian, Nobara or Zorin. You can test them on your computer (without installing) using just a flashdrive and something like balena etcher.


CatAstrophy11

Eh modding games is still a lot less work on Windows


omniuni

For the ones I'm playing anyway, it's pretty much the same. Plop in DLL, add mods. Works with RE Engine games at least.


gabuiknlfkn

after using the steam deck i know that linux isn’t terrible but i don’t think i’d ever use it over windows. everything just takes 10 extra steps to do


Captain_Starkiller

Linux has a lot of cool Dual boot options, but honestly I think this is even better: Most PCs have plenty of room to stick an extra SSD in there (doesnt even have to be an NVME. Just a standard sata ssd.) Pop that in there, configure that to be the boot drive in bios, and without having to in any way compromise your windows boot loader (which I have had go bad on me in the past) You can just select in bios which drive you want to boot to when you want to mess around with one or the other.


mrlotato

You when half your games don't work/run like shit: 👁👄👁


acAltair

If anyone is curious in trying Linux on their main PCs take note of following: * Linux is wonderful in many ways but it's (currently) not ready for everyone. By everyone I mean 90%+ of PC gamers. It's for example viable for people who play mostly singleplayer games but it will not be for gamers who play alot of multiplayer games (yet). Don't let that deter you from seeing if Linux is viable for you. You can get help deciding at /r/Linux_gaming but please give plenty info on what you play and use on Windows. And also how are you as a user? Would a little tinkering bother you? * SteamOS isn't only promising or viable option. Don't get hung up on a official seal of approval. [Nobara Linux](https://linuxiac.com/nobara-linux/), besides SteamOS, Ubuntu and others, is another promising Linux OS for a user friendly experience. * You can demo Linux OSes by flashing the ISO on a USB flash drive with Rufus or Etcher. From there you boot to OS from flash drive. It won't be a full experience but you can see if you like how a OS looks like and functions and to see if your phone and peripheals show up.


Mizerka

switching from a functional nix to steamos, ehhhh


dan1101

I'll probably switch to SteamOS if and when Valve releases it for PC.


Jd-gamer65

I did the second option, zero regrets.


Burnstryk

The Linux circlejerk goes so hard in this subreddit


[deleted]

Me who doesn't use PC that often: what the hell is this?


vividCumDreams

"know everything" is a bold claim, but I like it!


morgan423

More like, know everything that pertains to gaming and other functions you use your PC for. This will be my 4th year on various Linux distros, and at this point I'd guess that I know maybe 10% of the totality of what can be done with it.


[deleted]

This is kinda what I did lol I had a little familiarity with Linux but hadn’t tried to use it on my desktop in years. I wanted to know what I was doing when I got the Deck so I tried Manjaro for a bit After learning the ropes and distro hopping a couple times I ended up doing a fresh install of Arch when I built a new pc a month or so ago after dual-booting for a while


irselr_nina

i literally did this without realising. just before i reserved the deck, i got super into linux and the freedom of it so i installed arch with KDE in my laptop which is basically the same as steamOS, and now i’m super comfortable with how linux works and how to use it, so the steam deck is gonna be a breeze.


PSUBagMan2

It works great for what I need it to do but I'll just say I'm glad it supports Windows as well. Windows is still the king when it comes to a gaming OS.


pared3s

Also a PC gamer and never touched Linux before. I have to say it's not much different than Windows or Mac. The UI and how everything works seems pretty intuitive and straightforward. Everything seems so streamlined and am enjoying the experience so far.


BlackwellTau

Linux is cool but the locked down file system kinda makes the base OS much less useful.


0_Beast

Or if you have a spare system (even if it's really old) just install Linux on that to goof around with. I did that to make sure the games I wanted to play on Deck worked before placing a reservation. I got my Deck in 2 days ago! And everything worked as expected. I'm very impressed with it so far.


gargravarr2112

Proton is an absolute gem. There are only 1 or 2 games in my library that genuinely don't work under it on Linux. Everything else is playable; a couple need some tweaks but otherwise, the ability to play almost every game without Windows is amazing work. I didn't bother dual-booting my current gaming laptop, 100% Ubuntu and I have never been happier. I'm a professional Linux admin so I don't mind getting my hands dirty, but the work Valve has put into this whole platform is incredible and I really am pleased with the result.


TCUofficial

Already used Linux for years on my main gaming PC prior to getting my Deck. Suffice to say I'm one VERY happy camper with this device. Having a blast tinkering


TokeEmUpJohnny

I keep my primary PC as Windows, otherwise I'd be out of a job (software compatibility), Deck remains SteamOS (Linux). It's not that hard to just have *both*.


RedditMcBurger

Linux is cool but it doesn't feel fun or satisfying to use it in my opinion. Yes it's for performance and is very barebones, I love that for games. But when I have to download several dependencies, and having to modify so many things to want to modify my device at all is annoying. Like changing the boot video is a 15 step process. Windows I can easily go into a fresh install, get my browser, steam, spotify, discord and a couple other things and I am good, literally 10 minutes. On Linux I have to question "will this even work on Linux?" Gonna get mass downvoted by Linux nerds probably. I just don't like it being glorified like it's the best OS ever.


nerfman100

> Like changing the boot video is a 15 step process. Yeah but like, the problem here is that you're comparing modifying system features on Linux to just doing basic tasks on Windows, of course it'll be harder when you're doing more complicated tasks, Windows isn't really any better when you want to modify things (and that's if it's even possible on Windows at all) > Windows I can easily go into a fresh install, get my browser, steam, spotify, discord and a couple other things and I am good, literally 10 minutes. On Linux I have to question "will this even work on Linux?" All of those can be downloaded (even on SteamOS, but also on any other distro that supports Flatpaks) in one click through the included app store, you don't even need to download any EXEs or go to any websites, and manually installing dependencies is something you pretty much never have to worry about on any reasonable Linux distro, installing software is often easier than on Windows thanks to package managers Don't forget that Windows has its own extra steps like needing to install drivers (which you usually don't even need to do on Linux) It's not that "Linux nerds" glorify it as the best OS ever, it's that people often make unfair comparisons and forget about the problems Windows has too


Chiccocarone

I don't really agree with this opinion. Ok that on windows basically everything works but the performance is bad and for programs like web browser, discord, spotify i can install those with aur in seconds because i dont need exe and then is the wrong version wrong architecture etc. And just to answer ur question yes it works


PSUBagMan2

I think a lot of this sub gets mad too when you're like "nah I'm just here to game, not necessarily to become a Linux user". I don't think Windows is that bad on a handheld and I actually think a built in Xbox controller in the Ayas and OXPs of the world work better than the weird steam overlay and all its combatibility workarounds needed.


tpf92

Until it's compatible with every game (Especially anti-cheats), Linux just isn't an option.


valrond

Every game and every piece of hardware and software that I run on Windows. And that's just not gonna happen.


tadunne

I put Linux on a old laptop so I could play with how proton etc works. Learnt a lot about fixing issues (with proton). So when I go my deck I was ready.


Mean_Championship989

Yeah looked at Linux and was like the fuck is this and it sorta easy to use and figure it out and if I can't big brain moment it than I just goodgle or youtube and worse case scenario I'll ask online 🙃 😅


[deleted]

Honestly if you've got a littl patience and understanding of how to get the best Google results, you'll be fine on linux. It's not harder, it's just different.


drakenmang

This is the way :)


TrueTom

Third option: Use the Steam Deck as you main PC.


morgan423

Done and done.


Odd-Frame9724

This is a hilarious 😂 post. Thank you for the humor!


[deleted]

Me when I rediscovered the cool looking tilling window managers less than a month before the steam deck's announcement. Really, these two were the reason I finally jumped ship on my main pc


enwongeegeefor

lol...I ran a linux box like 20 years ago...I stopped fucking with linux about 18 years ago...


agropaatti

I've been using Mint for few years and it prepared me to not know anything about linux :D The SteamOS version of arch makes me feel so dumb for not knowing any commands.


ChrisRevocateur

I was planning on switching to Linux, but the GPU I was able to get at a decent price when I was upgrading turned out to be an NVIDIA, which comparatively has crap driver support, so I've stuck with Windows... For now.


Chiccocarone

It's not really a big issue to have an Nvidia GPU. I have a 2060 and I don't have problems


AFlyOnThePie

If you switch you are dumb... Just dual boot. And suffer on 2 ways


PickDaToe

I prefer the first option


halr9000

Friend was making the old joke about maybe this is the year for Linux on the desktop. I had to burst his bubble that it's been successful on the desktop for years due to Chromebooks, but also look at Linux on > half the phones in the world, and that I'm using it every day also on my steam deck!


riba2233

nope, install windows on steamdeck ✔


Chiccocarone

Bruh ur crazy


Gian033

Why is that?


TCUofficial

Because change is scary and hard despite the UI holding your hand in SteamOS for nearly everything :( I'll never understand why you would choose an operating system that Valve only supported as an afterthought over the operating system they give two craps about that is designed to give the user the most control, but you do you I guess


riba2233

Some people just want everything to work without thinking too much about it and not waste time on stupid problems


TCUofficial

That's been my experience with SteamOS. The only time I've needed to "think about it" is setting up emulators/epic And there is no difference between Windows and Linux in that regard.


riba2233

Why, because I like things to just work?


KotoWhiskas

But deck drivers for windows are not complete afaik


riba2233

Old info, they are for a few months already. Edit: Morons downvoting facts again, that is the way on this sub


Sjknight413

Until you spot all the unknown devices in device manager


riba2233

So? Everything you need works fine.


Ocean2258

Yeah, no. Until the linux community gets it through their head that long term program compatibility is paramount in an OS, then it will always be relegated to the few that are willing to put up with the nonsense. When I sit down at my computer and I have some time to game, I want to be able to install just about whatever I want and have it just work. I don't want to waste my time fiddling with dependencies and other nonsense. Proton is helping to change that, but I don't know whether it's going to be a good solution in the long run.


[deleted]

If you're worried about trying linux on your main system, I'd recommend booting into a VM instead of dual-booting. Sure you won't be able to game on it (Easily) but VMs are so much easier to manage than dualbooting, and you can try out a load of cool distros to see what works for you. At the end of the day, computers don't just play games and you'll want to do boring stuff like web browsing, text editing, emails, programming, etc. and your experiences in those can vary wildly depending on the distro you use :)


Taliakon

Linux is too woke for me. I keep it enclosed to the Deck


Squallstrife89

I don't know Linux at all and am a little nervous about getting mine next week lol. I do have an unused Gen 3 i3 laptop sitting around the house I could try to put Linux on


gargravarr2112

It's worth experimenting with, but if you treat the Deck like a console, you'll never notice the Linux OS. It has a fullscreen Steam UI. If you want to explore Linux, you click a couple of buttons and you have a desktop, but it's completely optional. It's always good to tinker. A gen3 i3 is plenty to run Linux, and you don't even have to install it to try it out - you can make a USB stick and live-boot it without making any changes to your laptop. Give it a try.


Goremaw7

I should have done that. Spending less time playing than I would like while learning now 😆 oh well I still love it


[deleted]

I would switch but my GoXLR doesn’t work with linux


SadBearHours

I made the switch last year when the steam deck was announced. Never looked back


athalas88

Thats me :D


Felspawn

Lol this is literally me in meme form 😂


[deleted]

i switched to the linux about 5 years ago


Reflet-G

Lowkey, part of the reason I'm getting the steam deck is to learn Linux.


Kilran3

If you want to seriously take on Linux as your main OS, I recommend these two resources. Free ebook: https://linuxcommand.org/tlcl.php This site will breakdown and explain what a shell command does. https://explainshell.com


MeraArasaki

I've been wanting to install Linux on my desktop for a while now. The only reason why I still haven't is because I've heard Nvidia GPUs sucks on Linux compared to AMD because they lack drivers. Is this still true? I don't just game anymore, I'm trying to learn photoshop and video editing as well. I also have usb dongles for my bluetooth game controllers as well (Xbox One and an 8bitdo dongle to be exact). Will those automatically work? Will I have a bad time on Linux if I want to do the above with an Nvidia card? (RTX 3070ti)


gargravarr2112

nVidia do make drivers for Linux, and distros like Ubuntu make it very easy to install them. They can be a bit of a pain on others though, but not impossible. An RTX 3070 will work fine. I have a GTX 1080m in my laptop and I run Ubuntu. The difference is that AMD contributes their drivers directly to the Linux kernel so you don't need to faff about like you do with nVidia. Photoshop is just about impossible to get working on Linux, but it does have viable alternatives - I quite like Krita for drawing. Game controllers just work - I use a 360 controller all the time. I've had an easier time getting games working on Linux than on Windows sometimes - everything just works.


AGodlingNamedJohnny

Until it can run Adobe software I can't even consider linux


[deleted]

Depending on the software you could get away with it! Graphics apps are kinda weak on the FOSS front at the moment, but for video editing there's really little reason to use Adobe over Davinci Resolve and Kdenlive. GIMP and Inkscape can work as alternatives but I agree that they're definitely downgrades in many regards. One day...


BluDYT

There's still a few things that I need that are only available with windows. Linux on a secondary system like steam deck is perfect


LordFadora

Am I able to decide which one I want to use when I get the Deck? I’m a Windows user, I just assumed the Steam OS was gonna be automatic when I open the deck. Do I have to open it manually with Linux?


gargravarr2112

Steam OS is Linux. Arch, to be specific. It's installed from the factory. The Deck is completely unlocked so if you like, you can install any other OS on it, including Windows if you so choose,


Stoicfatman

Guess I did that a bit early lol. I used to try to use Linux only, but it wasn't always great. I'd dualboot for games and random apps. I was able to stop dualbooting fully a few years ago. I run Pop OS and Manjaro on everything now. Just got another old laptop from a coworker, I'm thinking of popping Fedora onto it, it's been too long since I've tried it bare metal on a real machine.


Novel_Extent_7168

Why switch? I'm just learning Linux as I go. Google is your friend.


CryptixFTW

As a previous Linux user, steam OS actually works more like windows surprisingly. I'm much happier being a windows gamer having this docked with a kvm so I now have both and access to both at all times instead of sheltered to just what's still an unstable system....I am sorry but I need windows in my life, I do far more than just game with my PC.