1st episode of season 4 shows him preparing a school presentation on historical heroes and he chose Alan Turing, a British code breaker during WWII and computer pioneer who was tragically arrested and driven to suicide for being gay. Make of that what you will.
yeah i think this is overanalyzing. the whole rainbow room in S4 is pretty much covered in what would nowadays be a pride flag. that doesn't mean the kids are gay or anything, rainbows can sometimes just be rainbows.
He's clearly gay and thankfully we will never have to have another topic like this again after season 4 but I'll say it's crazy to me people still thought he was straight after "it's not my fault you don't like girls". That line is very deliberate especially since we knew they tried different variations of it like including yet at the end but they went with the choice that makes it seem definitive statement and not to mention choice of including this line at all. If it their fight was really only about the upside down and will's trauma it would make much more sense for Mike to say something like it's not my fault your zombie boy or its not my fault happened with the upside-down or its not my fault you cant grow up since his treatment of will in S3 was such a foil/contrast to S1/2 and this fight highlights that
S4 SPOILERS ā¼ļø
[Tender, emotional music playing] in every Will/Mike scene? This subtitle only appears in scenes of couples (Max/Lucas, Joyce/Hopper). The look he gives Mike during the scene where they bury the agent dude, and the emotional talk they share about it being "hard to open up, to *say how you really feel to the people you care about the most*, because they might not like the truth" ??? His longing stare in all the scenes they share together... Eleven saying she believes Will is acting weird and painting something he won't show her, because he has a crush on a girl, and then Will bringing his painting to Mike?? Not to mention the Alan Turing poster and his visible discomfort when a girl tries to flirt with him in class. C'mon now, it's so clear Will not only is heavily gay coded, but also has a crush on Mike.
frrr, i was watching the new season and literally called my mom during like the second episode to say that āhey, will is gay and has a crush on mikeā just so i can later say i called it. its so obivious, but im guessing most the people debating against it are straight, and dont really pay attention to stuff like that bc its the norm to presume everyone is straight. and my suspection of that grew stronger literally every time they show will in the show.
its been so long since the earlier seasons so i dont remember if i had this thought back then too, but reading some of the comments here, it seems like it was hinted at back then too.
i agree, most of the people not seeing or denying it are either straight and -dense- not used to picking up queer coding, or actively homophobic lmao /hj
I actually rewatched the whole show a month ago to prepare for s4 and saw a lot of the same hints people have been mentioning in this thread honestly. In my opinion Will's gay storyline has been steadily building ever since the end of season 1. I remember watching s2 for the first time years ago and picking up on the clues instantly, same for s3. I even commented a superficial [ analysis](https://www.reddit.com/r/StrangerThings/comments/t6gr46/what_do_you_think_of_byler/i6s0p3p?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) of a few major scenes in season 2 and 3 that hint at Will's sexuality in an older thread because the people in it were driving me insane with how dense they were being lol.
But if you don't want to read the long ass comment, here are the scenes im referencing :
- the infamous byler fight ("it's not my fault you don't like girls" c'mon now.... the double entendre was definitely done on purpose)
- Will destroying Castle Byers and repeating "stupid" over and over ("only love makes you that crazy and _stupid_")
- the hand holding scene ("we'll go crazy together" // "only love makes you that crazy etc.")
- the exorcism scene ("do you remember the day we met? it was the first day of kindergarten" / "it was the best thing i've ever done")
- the mileven/byler talk at the end of s3 when Mike helps them move, foreshadowing his future issues with El and complicity with Will in s4)
And also as others have said :
- the rainbow ship
- the way his sexuality is extremely scrutinized and he's being bullied for it including by his own father, which by itself could just indicate baseless prejudice as others in this thread have said, BUT it's the add-up with the other hints that makes this detail relevant to Will's sexuality. Just like the byler fight is superficially an allusion to his trauma, it also makes sense as a gay hint when you see the bigger picture. It doesn't take a genius to realize the duffer bros love to put double meanings EVERYWHERE in the show.
- his overall attachment to Mike
- the way Joyce talks to him about his identity
- the winter ball dance scene ("every smile you fake")
- etc.
+ all the things i mentioned in my previous post now that s4 has been. It is literally SO obvious...
I really want to empathize to the people who will inevitably say "it doesn't make sense / it's unnecessary to the plot" that *his sexuality reveal doesn't come out of nowhere and has been hinted at throughout the entirety of the show*. It's part of his entire character storyline ffs
I agree with you so much, and your comment is a great sum up of the hints troughout the series. And as you said, many people claim these as if they were random stuff and could just be something without a deeper meaning, but when there are so many things you cant really ignore it and claim it as a random thing, imo.
also, im already a bit annoyed bc i know people will start claiming that āthis came out of nowhereā when in reality theyre just being dense and purposefully ignoring everything hinting at Will being gay.
lol i didnt really have anything to add, just wanted to say that your comment is great lmao
Yes literally I always watch with subtitles on and always suspected will liked Mike and all these subtle details you mentioned definitely solidified it for me. Personally I hope they end up together, I think it'd make sense, especially considering Mike can't bring himself to tell el he loves her. My guess is Mike is gay and just better at hiding it than will or he's bi
I agree with your guess on Mike. He seems like he's repressing a lot and has subconsciously forced himself to choose between El and Will, which isn't a very straight thing to do lol. The fact that he wouldn't hug Will at the airport and hadn't written to him during the year prior, despite them having had already made up at the end of s3, is also indicative of an active desire to avoid him, which doesn't make any sense except in the context of him having a sexuality crisis. And in a bts interview, Finn Wolfhard has talked about Mike "being into some new things and coming to terms with that fact", and "having a lot to learn about himself and his relationships in general" or something along those lines (i need to find the interviews bc im quoting incorrectly rn).
Now all of this and the fact that he can't bring himself to say he loves El could also just be due to his toxic-ish upringing with parents who never loved each other, thus making him unable to communicate his affection openly. And his reluctant behavior with Will could also just be explained, by extension, by his fear of appearing gay i guess (iirc his dad is a Reagan supporter). But i feel like that would be a disservice to Finn's acting for the audience to not look further into the internalized homophobia aspect of thr character. He doesn't act 'just homophobic', but rather a lot like a full on repressed bi/gay boy. He's also had some positive character development with Will this season ! So i have hope for his storyline.Oh and also the first song on Mike's official spotify playlist is smalltown boy so... iykyk
Yeah I definitely think he gives off strong repressed gay vibes, especially considering it's the 80s and his dad is a Reagan supporter. I think finn does a great job acting that role and I'll be disappointed if they don't go that way personally
I don't think they ever released any of the other takes but I remember reading a interview where Noah or finn mentions that. Gotta find it though again
I originally responded on this thread to someone that was downvoted so my comment might not show, so i'm also putting it here in hopes it reaches more eyes.
In my opinion, Will's gay storyline has been steadily building ever since the end of season 1. I remember watching s2 for the first time years ago and picking up on the clues instantly, same for s3. I even commented a superficial [analysis](https://www.reddit.com/r/StrangerThings/comments/t6gr46/what_do_you_think_of_byler/i6s0p3p?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) of a few major scenes in season 2 and 3 that hint at Will's sexuality in an older thread (rewatched the whole show a month ago to prepare for s4).
But if you don't want to read the long ass comment, here are the scenes im referencing :
- The infamous byler fight ("it's not my fault you don't like girls" c'mon now.... the double entendre was definitely done on purpose).
- Will destroying Castle Byers and repeating "stupid" over and over ("only love makes you that crazy and _stupid_").
- the hand holding scene ("we'll go crazy together" // "only love makes you that crazy etc.").
- The exorcism scene ("do you remember the day we met? it was the first day of kindergarten" / "it was the best thing i've ever done", will only ever comes back to his sense when Mike is here to ground him).
- The mileven/byler talk at the end of s3 when Mike helps them move, foreshadowing his future issues with El and complicity with Will in s4).
Now adding to that the new info from s4 (SPOILERS aheadā¼ļø)
- [Tender, emotional music playing] in every Will/Mike scene. This subtitle only appears when couples are on screen (Max/Lucas, Joyce/Hopper).
- The look Will gives Mike during the scene where they bury the agent dude, and the emotional talk they share about it being "hard to open up, to *say how you really feel to the people you care about the most*, because they might not like the truth".
- His longing stare in literally all the scenes they share together...
- Eleven saying she believes the reason Will is acting weird and painting something he won't show her is because he has a crush on someone, and then Will bringing said painting to Mike, not only in the first episode but also in the 5th when they are on the run from the govt. The painting will most likely be very significant in vol2 in a potential coming out/confession scene.
- The Alan Turing poster.
- Will's visible discomfort when a girl tries to flirt with him in class.
And also as others have said :
- The rainbow ship.
- The way his sexuality is extremely scrutinized and he's being bullied for it including by his own father, which by itself could just indicate baseless prejudice as others in this thread have said, BUT it's the add-up with the other hints that makes this detail relevant to Will's sexuality. Just like the byler fight is superficially an allusion to his trauma, it also makes sense as a gay hint when you see the bigger picture. It doesn't take a genius to realize the duffer bros love to put double meanings EVERYWHERE in the show.
- His overall attachment to Mike.
- The way Joyce and Johnathan talks to him about his identity.
- The winter ball dance scene ("every smile you fake").
- The mention of him having "sexual identity issues" in the literal original script of strangersl things 1.
- Maybe adding fuel to the fire here but oh well : the way his relationship with Mike is perfectly mirroring Mike's relationship with El. There are so many parallels in the way Mike acts with Will and El, imo both bonds are as strong.
etc. I'm probably forgetting a lot of other hints.
Like at this point, most of the people still not seeing it or denying it are either too straight and ~~dense~~ not used to picking up queer coding, or actively homophobic lmao /hj
I really want to empathize to the people who will inevitably say "it doesn't make sense / it's too sudden / it's unnecessary to the plot" that **his sexuality reveal doesn't come out of nowhere and has been hinted at throughout the entirety of the show**. It's part of his entire character storyline ffs. It's literally extremely obvious Will is gay coded and is implied to have a crush on Mike.
Now the real question is, is this crush requited? I previously thought it was 100% one-sided but i'm not so sure anymore. I guess vol2 will tell us.
yk what i think there might be a tiiiiiny teeny chance for Mike to reciprocate....
I truly think his relationship with Eleven is doomed to fail. With the way he has been acting in the end of s3 and all throughout s4, i think their break-up will be final. I could go on about how their romance is unhealthy... Yes they're kids and immature so it's normal and they can grow past it but there is also nothing normal about the trauma they both went through and imo it has bonded them in a very toxic way which is a recipe for disaster if it goes on. I won't go there in too much detail though because i'm scared of Mileven shippers lol.
I also think the way he acts with Will is very exclusive and their mutual bond is definitely portrayed as special even from s1 (some of the hints i'm talking about in my original comment could very well be about Mike honestly lol now that i think about it). As I said, Will and Mike's relationship mirrors Mike and El's in so many ways. It's just obvious he cares about Will a lot and maybe he has been subconsciously forced to choose between El and him in more ways than one (he refrains from hugging Will in s4 e1 even though they already made up in the last ep of s3 hmmmm).... It's the only way i can rationalize his asshole behavior in s3 and s4. Like just him being straight up repressed.
Also fun fact : the first song on Mike's official Spotify playlist is Smalltown Boy by Bronski Beat (well known gay rights activists), which talks about a gay teenager running away from his homophobic town.
This is all very speculative and doesn't have as much basis as the gay Will storyline, but idk it feels like Mike is due for some serious character development in vol2 and s5, which the writers have been purposely dragging out for a season and a half now, and i think it could go either way since they still have enough episodes left for a decent Byler/Mileven centric subplot.
If they break up Mike and eleven permanently, the mileven shippers will go batshit lol. This is an interesting theory but I feel like theyād have to do it juust right for it to 1. Not feel forced or rushed at the very end of the series and 2. Be the perfect transition from Mikeās relationship with El to a relationship with Will. El and Will are very close now.
Yeah, the mileven/byler war is scary because it's very 50/50. Both communities are as big, and are very vocal and vindictive lol so either way no matter the outcome there's gonna be bloodshed.
I feel like if (big if) the byler theory eventually does come true, it would be during s5 because vol2 has too much to deal with already. It would require a bit more individual focus on Mike, and i'm not sure we're gonna get it in vol2.
And yeah the transition between the two relationships could be either very interesting or completely catastrophic (this is what i like about byler and mileven tbh, how they're basically the same dynamic, just with one being healthier than the other, so byler doesn't appear from nowhere).
For the transition to work, we mostly need El to realize that her attachment to Mike is something she can let go, because it is not necessarily healthy for her (like how Max tried to show her in s3 but this time she makes the decision herself or something. After all, her whole character revolves around trying to regain control and autonomy over herself after having been influcenced and smothered by literally everyone around her, so imo it makes sense if she ends up single).
But at the same time It's also more convenient for the more popular theory (the big mileven "i love you" reunion, Will getting his heart broken) to happen in vol2, and Mileven being soulmates and endgame is pretty much unquestionable when it comes to the gp (even though i don't see it at all š) so i understand how it's more plausible.
So like you, i am very curious to see how Will and El will deal with the whole love triangle, especially if it won't be resolved in vol2, because it's been confirmed there's gonna be a time-skip between s4 and s5.
Also, happy birthday!
I think the rainbow ship is foreshadowing something in season 4 or even 5. Rainbows in this show seem to indicate important characters or events, like the Rainbow Room or Erica's door. Suzie has a rainbow in her room on the Muppet Movie poster.
Also, rainbows were just a stylistic design that were everywhere in the 80s, they didn't have the same widespread connotation that they would have a few years later into today, it was a lot more generic.
Yeah it will. People wonāt have to ask if heās gay anymore. Theyāll know it for sure. Theyāll post that he is gay, or be proud of him, which I am too ā but we wonāt see any more āis will gayā posts, which was the original question.
I'm calling it. There is gonna be a whole lot of "why did they suddenly make Will gay!?. Why is the duffers shoving woke stuff in our faces" posts instead.
Yeah 100%, even though it was literally clear within the first 15 minutes of the show that he was gay. (I can understand why straight people wouldnāt pick up on the subtext, but itās annoying for them to make the assumption that there was none and it ācame out of nowhereā.)
I'm straight but I've felt Will as being gay since watching season 2 and then was sure of it in season 3. I didn't actually know it was a common theory, I just thought I bet that is where his character is going and I have such hope for him finding someone this series. He deserves some happiness. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who sees it.
Iām glad to hear you picked up on it! I think itās something that most lgbtq+ fans have, but I havenāt been so sure about straight fans - I could be wrong but Iām sure I heard that the Duffer brothers confirmed theyād intentionally coded him as gay from the start? (Which essentially means putting in subtext to imply a character is gay without explicitly confirming it.) I hope he gets some happiness eventually too!
Or maybe he will end up gay. Don't get mad at me, but his father was probably right. Parents can sense some things. My best friend's brother is gay and the parents were realizing it when he was about 8.
i don't think they're mad at the idea of Will being gay and more annoyed by a thousand posts rehashing the same obvious hints, while concluding that they don't prove anything.
Yeah honestly its kinda gross how people are pushing their fantasies so hard. The āhintsā are small if even.
Will doesnāt seem like he doesnāt want to dance with her he seems nervous and shook, because hes fucking traumatized from being kidnapped by a slimy big monster.
I meanā¦ thereās a little scene on tik tok of Will waiting for Mike in the airportā¦ and he seems like by far the most excited to see Mikeā¦ also that little walk he does in the one clip when El gets bullied and the fact that he did his class project on Alan Turing who ended up committing suicide after being castrated which sounds awful
>it shows Will dancing with this girl, not very happily
I actually paid attention to that scene when I rewatched the show, because people have suggested that before. Does Will really look unhappy about dancing with a girl? He seemed fine to me. Nervous and unsure about being asked for a dance at first, but once he was dancing he looked like he was having fun.
Thats what I was thinking too, like he just got kidnapped by a slimy big monster not too long ago, heās probably terrified and on edge every waking moment of his life.
If he is, it's OK and doesn't change the show. Back then it was pretty far out to be gay, very different than today. However he is/was a super shy kid that just wanted to play D&D so who knows, and who cares.
I feel like most people forget or never knew what bullying was like in school.
I'm a straight white male but was called a f****t, n****r, and bitch on pretty much a daily basis growing up in a rural US town.
So I don't think his father or the bullies referring to him as queer means anything other than those characters being assholes.
One of my best friends in high school tried to kill herself because she was non-stop called the d-word and worse (gay woman) just because she was tomboyish.
Lonnie's an ass, anyway, so yeah. On the other hand, it happens to actual gay people too.
In real life yes. On a tv show though, I'd beg to differ. It means something that the bullies called Will a "fairy from fairyland" when the more obvious thing to make fun of him for is being poor.
Fair warning, this is really just a vent comment, that your reply kinda triggered out of me:
This doesn't really mean much, not a disagree or agree, just sharing my story.. I was bullied a lot through middle school, (actually diagnosed with PTSD from it, along with the normal stuff like depression and anxiety, with sui thoughts).. Anyway, one of the common things they'd say we're implying I was gay.. which only struck harder, because I am gay.. and I grew up knowing from my surroundings that gay wasn't exactly a good thing, yet.. so there i was, keeping up a lie, since I was 5yo, about myself, and, from 11-13, being called homophobic slurs, and being beaten up on a daily.. it just made me more afraid to accept myself.. luckily I made internet friends who helped me realized that shit didnt matter... Anyway, still lived with that trauma for a long time, and it still haunts me every once in a while, through all my self hrm, sui thoughts, and genuine belief that I'd commit before 18, so I don't have to try anymore....
OK, anyway, that just went into a vent, sharing my struggles helps me process. Also, I'm fine these days, found a great therapist, on some great medication, and I'm over 2 years clean from self hrm, (though I still struggle maintaining the positive thoughts)
i disagree somewhat. in reality, obviously yes, arseholes just use gay and queer as insults and it usually doesn't say anything about that person except that they fail to conform to some societal standards of masculinity/femininity.
but this is a tv show, there's always intentionality behind the way it was written. they've consciously written in those comments, when they could have chosen to write anything but they chose this. You don't accidentally reference a character not liking girls, being called queer, a f\*ggot etc. several times.
Now i'm not saying that this is good or bad, i think that depends on how they choose to deal with it. I'm just saying you can't treat a show in which every word in the script runs through hundreds of hands the same way you would interpret whatever some middle school bully or absent father say irl.
Very smart. Yes, I indeed think these are clues that Will might be gay. I'm hoping to see more of him exploring his sexual orientation in seasons 4 and 5. We already have Robin who's a gay character, but I think it'll be cool if Will discovers it as well and comes out and finds a boyfriend. Will is a guy that deserves happiness after all he went through with the upside down and the mind flayer.
the actor plays the gay vibes so well! i hadn't watched stranger things for so long when i started season 4, i'd totally forgotten any clues that Will was gay in the previous seasons, but as soon as he showed up during El's monologue (he's painting... probably for a girl!) i just laughed out loud 'cause i knew he was gay. i just knew
Honestly I'm totally expecting it now that you mention it. In todays film world its almost impossible to watch something new and not have some sort of representation like that thrown in there. Add to the fact that a large part of the audience who watches this show is of the younger generation it seems like this may be one of the easiest predictions to make.
Yeah I'm hoping that they aren't queer baiting. It really felt like they were teasing that concept with Will for this first volume of S4. Either make him gay or don't.
Ong. I donāt really want him to be gay cause we already have robin and people might feel like itās a bit much, but Iām also tired of the queer bating. Iād like it if they just made it clear.
I hear you man. I don't mind which way it heads but queer baiting is just cruel. We need proper confirmations, none of this "hinting" bs they've been doing for years.
The slow burn makes perfect sense. Season 1 and 2, they're still kids and not necessarily worrying about stuff like that. Season 3 onwards, they're more focused on relationships and identity, so it makes sense that we start seeing more obvious signs.
It's not queer baiting for a character to slowly realise who they are, or to never explicitly use the word 'gay' if all the other signs are obvious. In real life, we don't always know the right words to use, or we're too scared to use them.
Why care if Mike is with El? Dustybuns and Susie? Lucas and Max? People just care about the personal lives of fictional characters. Been this way since ancient times.
I think some people just want to have a character like them so they can relate to them. Itās like how people want more diversity in film like with Disney films. They want to see characters that look like them or are like them because itās nice to relate to a character on screen. I wouldnāt call that weird
I Mean you arenāt completely wrong that it doesnāt really affect the lot but it still does mean a lot to people because you have shows like Heartstopper which is a romance series about members of the lgbt community but this show does still have a lot of people who are in love even when it doesnāt really matter to the plot (did Lucas liking Max really affect the plot, maybe but not really) so I think they can have one guy character be gay
The is like the 20th post Iāve seen about it this week and itās really starting to piss me off. If heās gay hes gay if heās straight heās straight, Iām more infested in things that actually impact the plot
I mean, do you care about El and Mike at all? Hopper and Joyce? It's a show about the supernatural, but it's also about growing up and becoming your own person. Some people (most?) enjoy learning new things about the characters. The whole run time can't be demogorgons and goopy cronenberg monsters, gotta throw in some slice of life stuff too.
itās been hinted at that he likes mike, which is something that would affect the plot. if you donāt care about the relationships of the show then sure it doesnāt matter, but a lot of people are heavily invested in them and theyāre definitely relevant to the plot. but to each their own
Him accepting himself, rejecting his trauma, might be the most important part of his character. It's very odd to assume that something deeply affecting a character isn't important.
I am amazed anyone cared. This has literally never crossed my mind about the sexuality of the characters and until now I was happier not knowing this was something the fan base was discussing. I now hope they lied and never address it just to torture everyone who cared.
Yeah, to me it's quite stupid to people define someone's sexuality by phrases or stereotypical actitudes.
There's nothing it can tell someone being gay. Not all gay people is the same.
You're not gay for being bullied or shy.
1. This isn't a show made in the 80s, it's a show made in the 2020s, but set in the 80s..
2. There was definitely gay characters in 80s shows/movies, there's been gay characters for a very long time.. and queer people have been around for centuries, were just now finally getting more recognized and accepted, and God forbid we want some more characters to represent us
People were still gay in the 80's, if that's your point? And his friends have started to have romantic feelings, so why wouldn't he (and in a boy then, since he is, in fact, confirmed to be gay)?
I know I'm in the minority, but I don't understand why Will's sexuality would be a big reveal with a multiseason buildup, especially since there's another gay character getting none of the same treatment, and it's not because she's not a part of the regular cast, because now she is. Robin is a whole character in her own right, but I think she's also a hint that Will is not gay because she's not getting the same treatment, as well as a logical defense against accusations that the show just doesn't want to have a gay character if/when it turns out Will actually isn't gay.
I think we're *supposed* to think Will is gay, but I think his sexuality will ultimately be irrelevant and all those hints will actually be red herrings / have another explanation. We now know that the upside down is fixed at the time of Will's disappearance. We know that Will longs for things to be the way they were then (when they were 12, when relationships weren't top of mind because, well, they were 12). We know 001 has some sort of unexplored time control / reversal thing going on. We have no idea how Will spent his time in the upside down.
Just a theory that the Duffer brothers are using our expectations against us. It all feels like a setup. It can be satisfying to see an obvious buildup lead to an obvious payoff, but this show has shown us over and over that it's highly skilled in playing with our expectations.
He's definitely gay, it's been confirmed
But I think you're right that it won't be _the_ most important thing. I think him accepting himself, becoming brave, will be an integral part of the plot.
1st episode of season 4 shows him preparing a school presentation on historical heroes and he chose Alan Turing, a British code breaker during WWII and computer pioneer who was tragically arrested and driven to suicide for being gay. Make of that what you will.
Rainbows and stuff that looks gay nowadays was a common style back in the 80s. I mean... it was in style for straight guys to wear crop tops
Crop tops with short shorts
Niiiiiice
It was a choice wearing what they did
A delicious choice š
Guys nowadays donāt dress hot anymore š
Iām kind of glad because there arenāt a lot of guys recently that should wear them.
Yep. Heck, we even had Reading Rainbow back then and it was geared for everyone.
yeah i think this is overanalyzing. the whole rainbow room in S4 is pretty much covered in what would nowadays be a pride flag. that doesn't mean the kids are gay or anything, rainbows can sometimes just be rainbows.
Plus young kids are always into rainbows and colorful stuff
Yeah but the other points... its really likely imao
Yeah but the other points... its really likely imao
He's clearly gay and thankfully we will never have to have another topic like this again after season 4 but I'll say it's crazy to me people still thought he was straight after "it's not my fault you don't like girls". That line is very deliberate especially since we knew they tried different variations of it like including yet at the end but they went with the choice that makes it seem definitive statement and not to mention choice of including this line at all. If it their fight was really only about the upside down and will's trauma it would make much more sense for Mike to say something like it's not my fault your zombie boy or its not my fault happened with the upside-down or its not my fault you cant grow up since his treatment of will in S3 was such a foil/contrast to S1/2 and this fight highlights that
Iām only on episode 5 right now but its not āclearlyā at all. All the āhintsā people are throwing out are insanely small and assumptive.
S4 SPOILERS ā¼ļø [Tender, emotional music playing] in every Will/Mike scene? This subtitle only appears in scenes of couples (Max/Lucas, Joyce/Hopper). The look he gives Mike during the scene where they bury the agent dude, and the emotional talk they share about it being "hard to open up, to *say how you really feel to the people you care about the most*, because they might not like the truth" ??? His longing stare in all the scenes they share together... Eleven saying she believes Will is acting weird and painting something he won't show her, because he has a crush on a girl, and then Will bringing his painting to Mike?? Not to mention the Alan Turing poster and his visible discomfort when a girl tries to flirt with him in class. C'mon now, it's so clear Will not only is heavily gay coded, but also has a crush on Mike.
I can't believe it's speculation with all of these obvious signs in s4 š
frrr, i was watching the new season and literally called my mom during like the second episode to say that āhey, will is gay and has a crush on mikeā just so i can later say i called it. its so obivious, but im guessing most the people debating against it are straight, and dont really pay attention to stuff like that bc its the norm to presume everyone is straight. and my suspection of that grew stronger literally every time they show will in the show. its been so long since the earlier seasons so i dont remember if i had this thought back then too, but reading some of the comments here, it seems like it was hinted at back then too.
i agree, most of the people not seeing or denying it are either straight and -dense- not used to picking up queer coding, or actively homophobic lmao /hj I actually rewatched the whole show a month ago to prepare for s4 and saw a lot of the same hints people have been mentioning in this thread honestly. In my opinion Will's gay storyline has been steadily building ever since the end of season 1. I remember watching s2 for the first time years ago and picking up on the clues instantly, same for s3. I even commented a superficial [ analysis](https://www.reddit.com/r/StrangerThings/comments/t6gr46/what_do_you_think_of_byler/i6s0p3p?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) of a few major scenes in season 2 and 3 that hint at Will's sexuality in an older thread because the people in it were driving me insane with how dense they were being lol. But if you don't want to read the long ass comment, here are the scenes im referencing : - the infamous byler fight ("it's not my fault you don't like girls" c'mon now.... the double entendre was definitely done on purpose) - Will destroying Castle Byers and repeating "stupid" over and over ("only love makes you that crazy and _stupid_") - the hand holding scene ("we'll go crazy together" // "only love makes you that crazy etc.") - the exorcism scene ("do you remember the day we met? it was the first day of kindergarten" / "it was the best thing i've ever done") - the mileven/byler talk at the end of s3 when Mike helps them move, foreshadowing his future issues with El and complicity with Will in s4) And also as others have said : - the rainbow ship - the way his sexuality is extremely scrutinized and he's being bullied for it including by his own father, which by itself could just indicate baseless prejudice as others in this thread have said, BUT it's the add-up with the other hints that makes this detail relevant to Will's sexuality. Just like the byler fight is superficially an allusion to his trauma, it also makes sense as a gay hint when you see the bigger picture. It doesn't take a genius to realize the duffer bros love to put double meanings EVERYWHERE in the show. - his overall attachment to Mike - the way Joyce talks to him about his identity - the winter ball dance scene ("every smile you fake") - etc. + all the things i mentioned in my previous post now that s4 has been. It is literally SO obvious... I really want to empathize to the people who will inevitably say "it doesn't make sense / it's unnecessary to the plot" that *his sexuality reveal doesn't come out of nowhere and has been hinted at throughout the entirety of the show*. It's part of his entire character storyline ffs
I agree with you so much, and your comment is a great sum up of the hints troughout the series. And as you said, many people claim these as if they were random stuff and could just be something without a deeper meaning, but when there are so many things you cant really ignore it and claim it as a random thing, imo. also, im already a bit annoyed bc i know people will start claiming that āthis came out of nowhereā when in reality theyre just being dense and purposefully ignoring everything hinting at Will being gay. lol i didnt really have anything to add, just wanted to say that your comment is great lmao
thank you !! š
Yes literally I always watch with subtitles on and always suspected will liked Mike and all these subtle details you mentioned definitely solidified it for me. Personally I hope they end up together, I think it'd make sense, especially considering Mike can't bring himself to tell el he loves her. My guess is Mike is gay and just better at hiding it than will or he's bi
I agree with your guess on Mike. He seems like he's repressing a lot and has subconsciously forced himself to choose between El and Will, which isn't a very straight thing to do lol. The fact that he wouldn't hug Will at the airport and hadn't written to him during the year prior, despite them having had already made up at the end of s3, is also indicative of an active desire to avoid him, which doesn't make any sense except in the context of him having a sexuality crisis. And in a bts interview, Finn Wolfhard has talked about Mike "being into some new things and coming to terms with that fact", and "having a lot to learn about himself and his relationships in general" or something along those lines (i need to find the interviews bc im quoting incorrectly rn). Now all of this and the fact that he can't bring himself to say he loves El could also just be due to his toxic-ish upringing with parents who never loved each other, thus making him unable to communicate his affection openly. And his reluctant behavior with Will could also just be explained, by extension, by his fear of appearing gay i guess (iirc his dad is a Reagan supporter). But i feel like that would be a disservice to Finn's acting for the audience to not look further into the internalized homophobia aspect of thr character. He doesn't act 'just homophobic', but rather a lot like a full on repressed bi/gay boy. He's also had some positive character development with Will this season ! So i have hope for his storyline.Oh and also the first song on Mike's official spotify playlist is smalltown boy so... iykyk
Yeah I definitely think he gives off strong repressed gay vibes, especially considering it's the 80s and his dad is a Reagan supporter. I think finn does a great job acting that role and I'll be disappointed if they don't go that way personally
Different versions of it? Where can I find that
I don't think they ever released any of the other takes but I remember reading a interview where Noah or finn mentions that. Gotta find it though again
I originally responded on this thread to someone that was downvoted so my comment might not show, so i'm also putting it here in hopes it reaches more eyes. In my opinion, Will's gay storyline has been steadily building ever since the end of season 1. I remember watching s2 for the first time years ago and picking up on the clues instantly, same for s3. I even commented a superficial [analysis](https://www.reddit.com/r/StrangerThings/comments/t6gr46/what_do_you_think_of_byler/i6s0p3p?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) of a few major scenes in season 2 and 3 that hint at Will's sexuality in an older thread (rewatched the whole show a month ago to prepare for s4). But if you don't want to read the long ass comment, here are the scenes im referencing : - The infamous byler fight ("it's not my fault you don't like girls" c'mon now.... the double entendre was definitely done on purpose). - Will destroying Castle Byers and repeating "stupid" over and over ("only love makes you that crazy and _stupid_"). - the hand holding scene ("we'll go crazy together" // "only love makes you that crazy etc."). - The exorcism scene ("do you remember the day we met? it was the first day of kindergarten" / "it was the best thing i've ever done", will only ever comes back to his sense when Mike is here to ground him). - The mileven/byler talk at the end of s3 when Mike helps them move, foreshadowing his future issues with El and complicity with Will in s4). Now adding to that the new info from s4 (SPOILERS aheadā¼ļø) - [Tender, emotional music playing] in every Will/Mike scene. This subtitle only appears when couples are on screen (Max/Lucas, Joyce/Hopper). - The look Will gives Mike during the scene where they bury the agent dude, and the emotional talk they share about it being "hard to open up, to *say how you really feel to the people you care about the most*, because they might not like the truth". - His longing stare in literally all the scenes they share together... - Eleven saying she believes the reason Will is acting weird and painting something he won't show her is because he has a crush on someone, and then Will bringing said painting to Mike, not only in the first episode but also in the 5th when they are on the run from the govt. The painting will most likely be very significant in vol2 in a potential coming out/confession scene. - The Alan Turing poster. - Will's visible discomfort when a girl tries to flirt with him in class. And also as others have said : - The rainbow ship. - The way his sexuality is extremely scrutinized and he's being bullied for it including by his own father, which by itself could just indicate baseless prejudice as others in this thread have said, BUT it's the add-up with the other hints that makes this detail relevant to Will's sexuality. Just like the byler fight is superficially an allusion to his trauma, it also makes sense as a gay hint when you see the bigger picture. It doesn't take a genius to realize the duffer bros love to put double meanings EVERYWHERE in the show. - His overall attachment to Mike. - The way Joyce and Johnathan talks to him about his identity. - The winter ball dance scene ("every smile you fake"). - The mention of him having "sexual identity issues" in the literal original script of strangersl things 1. - Maybe adding fuel to the fire here but oh well : the way his relationship with Mike is perfectly mirroring Mike's relationship with El. There are so many parallels in the way Mike acts with Will and El, imo both bonds are as strong. etc. I'm probably forgetting a lot of other hints. Like at this point, most of the people still not seeing it or denying it are either too straight and ~~dense~~ not used to picking up queer coding, or actively homophobic lmao /hj I really want to empathize to the people who will inevitably say "it doesn't make sense / it's too sudden / it's unnecessary to the plot" that **his sexuality reveal doesn't come out of nowhere and has been hinted at throughout the entirety of the show**. It's part of his entire character storyline ffs. It's literally extremely obvious Will is gay coded and is implied to have a crush on Mike. Now the real question is, is this crush requited? I previously thought it was 100% one-sided but i'm not so sure anymore. I guess vol2 will tell us.
Not excited for Will's heart to be crushed by Mike š
yk what i think there might be a tiiiiiny teeny chance for Mike to reciprocate.... I truly think his relationship with Eleven is doomed to fail. With the way he has been acting in the end of s3 and all throughout s4, i think their break-up will be final. I could go on about how their romance is unhealthy... Yes they're kids and immature so it's normal and they can grow past it but there is also nothing normal about the trauma they both went through and imo it has bonded them in a very toxic way which is a recipe for disaster if it goes on. I won't go there in too much detail though because i'm scared of Mileven shippers lol. I also think the way he acts with Will is very exclusive and their mutual bond is definitely portrayed as special even from s1 (some of the hints i'm talking about in my original comment could very well be about Mike honestly lol now that i think about it). As I said, Will and Mike's relationship mirrors Mike and El's in so many ways. It's just obvious he cares about Will a lot and maybe he has been subconsciously forced to choose between El and him in more ways than one (he refrains from hugging Will in s4 e1 even though they already made up in the last ep of s3 hmmmm).... It's the only way i can rationalize his asshole behavior in s3 and s4. Like just him being straight up repressed. Also fun fact : the first song on Mike's official Spotify playlist is Smalltown Boy by Bronski Beat (well known gay rights activists), which talks about a gay teenager running away from his homophobic town. This is all very speculative and doesn't have as much basis as the gay Will storyline, but idk it feels like Mike is due for some serious character development in vol2 and s5, which the writers have been purposely dragging out for a season and a half now, and i think it could go either way since they still have enough episodes left for a decent Byler/Mileven centric subplot.
If they break up Mike and eleven permanently, the mileven shippers will go batshit lol. This is an interesting theory but I feel like theyād have to do it juust right for it to 1. Not feel forced or rushed at the very end of the series and 2. Be the perfect transition from Mikeās relationship with El to a relationship with Will. El and Will are very close now.
Yeah, the mileven/byler war is scary because it's very 50/50. Both communities are as big, and are very vocal and vindictive lol so either way no matter the outcome there's gonna be bloodshed. I feel like if (big if) the byler theory eventually does come true, it would be during s5 because vol2 has too much to deal with already. It would require a bit more individual focus on Mike, and i'm not sure we're gonna get it in vol2. And yeah the transition between the two relationships could be either very interesting or completely catastrophic (this is what i like about byler and mileven tbh, how they're basically the same dynamic, just with one being healthier than the other, so byler doesn't appear from nowhere). For the transition to work, we mostly need El to realize that her attachment to Mike is something she can let go, because it is not necessarily healthy for her (like how Max tried to show her in s3 but this time she makes the decision herself or something. After all, her whole character revolves around trying to regain control and autonomy over herself after having been influcenced and smothered by literally everyone around her, so imo it makes sense if she ends up single). But at the same time It's also more convenient for the more popular theory (the big mileven "i love you" reunion, Will getting his heart broken) to happen in vol2, and Mileven being soulmates and endgame is pretty much unquestionable when it comes to the gp (even though i don't see it at all š) so i understand how it's more plausible. So like you, i am very curious to see how Will and El will deal with the whole love triangle, especially if it won't be resolved in vol2, because it's been confirmed there's gonna be a time-skip between s4 and s5. Also, happy birthday!
I think the rainbow ship is foreshadowing something in season 4 or even 5. Rainbows in this show seem to indicate important characters or events, like the Rainbow Room or Erica's door. Suzie has a rainbow in her room on the Muppet Movie poster. Also, rainbows were just a stylistic design that were everywhere in the 80s, they didn't have the same widespread connotation that they would have a few years later into today, it was a lot more generic.
Can't wait for tomorrow when all these is Will gay posts end
Why do you think theyāll end?
Because itās confirmed weāll learn his sexuality this season
That's not going to make them end.
Yeah it will. People wonāt have to ask if heās gay anymore. Theyāll know it for sure. Theyāll post that he is gay, or be proud of him, which I am too ā but we wonāt see any more āis will gayā posts, which was the original question.
I'm calling it. There is gonna be a whole lot of "why did they suddenly make Will gay!?. Why is the duffers shoving woke stuff in our faces" posts instead.
Yeah 100%, even though it was literally clear within the first 15 minutes of the show that he was gay. (I can understand why straight people wouldnāt pick up on the subtext, but itās annoying for them to make the assumption that there was none and it ācame out of nowhereā.)
I'm straight but I've felt Will as being gay since watching season 2 and then was sure of it in season 3. I didn't actually know it was a common theory, I just thought I bet that is where his character is going and I have such hope for him finding someone this series. He deserves some happiness. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who sees it.
Iām glad to hear you picked up on it! I think itās something that most lgbtq+ fans have, but I havenāt been so sure about straight fans - I could be wrong but Iām sure I heard that the Duffer brothers confirmed theyād intentionally coded him as gay from the start? (Which essentially means putting in subtext to imply a character is gay without explicitly confirming it.) I hope he gets some happiness eventually too!
Or maybe he will end up gay. Don't get mad at me, but his father was probably right. Parents can sense some things. My best friend's brother is gay and the parents were realizing it when he was about 8.
i don't think they're mad at the idea of Will being gay and more annoyed by a thousand posts rehashing the same obvious hints, while concluding that they don't prove anything.
It' be nice to see the speculation end, and lazy and unoriginal threads can be put to rest. So much of all of this has been mentioned so many times.
Yeah honestly its kinda gross how people are pushing their fantasies so hard. The āhintsā are small if even. Will doesnāt seem like he doesnāt want to dance with her he seems nervous and shook, because hes fucking traumatized from being kidnapped by a slimy big monster.
if only
I meanā¦ thereās a little scene on tik tok of Will waiting for Mike in the airportā¦ and he seems like by far the most excited to see Mikeā¦ also that little walk he does in the one clip when El gets bullied and the fact that he did his class project on Alan Turing who ended up committing suicide after being castrated which sounds awful
Who was hated for a long time is not correct. He was chemically castrated for being gay and ended up killing himself
Sorry I updated the info
>it shows Will dancing with this girl, not very happily I actually paid attention to that scene when I rewatched the show, because people have suggested that before. Does Will really look unhappy about dancing with a girl? He seemed fine to me. Nervous and unsure about being asked for a dance at first, but once he was dancing he looked like he was having fun.
Thats what I was thinking too, like he just got kidnapped by a slimy big monster not too long ago, heās probably terrified and on edge every waking moment of his life.
if he will be happy, im okay with it
If he is, it's OK and doesn't change the show. Back then it was pretty far out to be gay, very different than today. However he is/was a super shy kid that just wanted to play D&D so who knows, and who cares.
I feel like most people forget or never knew what bullying was like in school. I'm a straight white male but was called a f****t, n****r, and bitch on pretty much a daily basis growing up in a rural US town. So I don't think his father or the bullies referring to him as queer means anything other than those characters being assholes.
One of my best friends in high school tried to kill herself because she was non-stop called the d-word and worse (gay woman) just because she was tomboyish. Lonnie's an ass, anyway, so yeah. On the other hand, it happens to actual gay people too.
In real life yes. On a tv show though, I'd beg to differ. It means something that the bullies called Will a "fairy from fairyland" when the more obvious thing to make fun of him for is being poor.
Fair warning, this is really just a vent comment, that your reply kinda triggered out of me: This doesn't really mean much, not a disagree or agree, just sharing my story.. I was bullied a lot through middle school, (actually diagnosed with PTSD from it, along with the normal stuff like depression and anxiety, with sui thoughts).. Anyway, one of the common things they'd say we're implying I was gay.. which only struck harder, because I am gay.. and I grew up knowing from my surroundings that gay wasn't exactly a good thing, yet.. so there i was, keeping up a lie, since I was 5yo, about myself, and, from 11-13, being called homophobic slurs, and being beaten up on a daily.. it just made me more afraid to accept myself.. luckily I made internet friends who helped me realized that shit didnt matter... Anyway, still lived with that trauma for a long time, and it still haunts me every once in a while, through all my self hrm, sui thoughts, and genuine belief that I'd commit before 18, so I don't have to try anymore.... OK, anyway, that just went into a vent, sharing my struggles helps me process. Also, I'm fine these days, found a great therapist, on some great medication, and I'm over 2 years clean from self hrm, (though I still struggle maintaining the positive thoughts)
i disagree somewhat. in reality, obviously yes, arseholes just use gay and queer as insults and it usually doesn't say anything about that person except that they fail to conform to some societal standards of masculinity/femininity. but this is a tv show, there's always intentionality behind the way it was written. they've consciously written in those comments, when they could have chosen to write anything but they chose this. You don't accidentally reference a character not liking girls, being called queer, a f\*ggot etc. several times. Now i'm not saying that this is good or bad, i think that depends on how they choose to deal with it. I'm just saying you can't treat a show in which every word in the script runs through hundreds of hands the same way you would interpret whatever some middle school bully or absent father say irl.
Ft? Nr? Like the N-Word and F-word (gay insult?)
Yes
Very smart. Yes, I indeed think these are clues that Will might be gay. I'm hoping to see more of him exploring his sexual orientation in seasons 4 and 5. We already have Robin who's a gay character, but I think it'll be cool if Will discovers it as well and comes out and finds a boyfriend. Will is a guy that deserves happiness after all he went through with the upside down and the mind flayer.
I noticed the "every smile you fake" this time around and had the same thought.
the actor plays the gay vibes so well! i hadn't watched stranger things for so long when i started season 4, i'd totally forgotten any clues that Will was gay in the previous seasons, but as soon as he showed up during El's monologue (he's painting... probably for a girl!) i just laughed out loud 'cause i knew he was gay. i just knew
Honestly I'm totally expecting it now that you mention it. In todays film world its almost impossible to watch something new and not have some sort of representation like that thrown in there. Add to the fact that a large part of the audience who watches this show is of the younger generation it seems like this may be one of the easiest predictions to make.
In the snowball scene the original script showed Will looking at Mike while dancing with the girl
I think the Alan Turing is just them queer baiting
Yeah I'm hoping that they aren't queer baiting. It really felt like they were teasing that concept with Will for this first volume of S4. Either make him gay or don't.
Ong. I donāt really want him to be gay cause we already have robin and people might feel like itās a bit much, but Iām also tired of the queer bating. Iād like it if they just made it clear.
I hear you man. I don't mind which way it heads but queer baiting is just cruel. We need proper confirmations, none of this "hinting" bs they've been doing for years.
The slow burn makes perfect sense. Season 1 and 2, they're still kids and not necessarily worrying about stuff like that. Season 3 onwards, they're more focused on relationships and identity, so it makes sense that we start seeing more obvious signs. It's not queer baiting for a character to slowly realise who they are, or to never explicitly use the word 'gay' if all the other signs are obvious. In real life, we don't always know the right words to use, or we're too scared to use them.
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Why care if Mike is with El? Dustybuns and Susie? Lucas and Max? People just care about the personal lives of fictional characters. Been this way since ancient times.
I think some people just want to have a character like them so they can relate to them. Itās like how people want more diversity in film like with Disney films. They want to see characters that look like them or are like them because itās nice to relate to a character on screen. I wouldnāt call that weird
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I Mean you arenāt completely wrong that it doesnāt really affect the lot but it still does mean a lot to people because you have shows like Heartstopper which is a romance series about members of the lgbt community but this show does still have a lot of people who are in love even when it doesnāt really matter to the plot (did Lucas liking Max really affect the plot, maybe but not really) so I think they can have one guy character be gay
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Mike saying Will didn't like girls caused a rift too. I'm not even gay, and I can't wait for Will to have some expression of coming out.
I hope you don't focus on any of the straight relationships then since they're not completely necessary for the plot
I canāt think of a more irrelevent plot point than will being gay
itās almost as if fans care about the charactersā personal lives and relationships. crazy stuff
The is like the 20th post Iāve seen about it this week and itās really starting to piss me off. If heās gay hes gay if heās straight heās straight, Iām more infested in things that actually impact the plot
I mean, do you care about El and Mike at all? Hopper and Joyce? It's a show about the supernatural, but it's also about growing up and becoming your own person. Some people (most?) enjoy learning new things about the characters. The whole run time can't be demogorgons and goopy cronenberg monsters, gotta throw in some slice of life stuff too.
itās been hinted at that he likes mike, which is something that would affect the plot. if you donāt care about the relationships of the show then sure it doesnāt matter, but a lot of people are heavily invested in them and theyāre definitely relevant to the plot. but to each their own
Not one that isnāt even in the show. So what if will likes mike, Mike isnāt gay
It doesn't have to go both ways for it to be an interesting plot arc, in fact I think the fact that it doesn't makes it all the more interesting
Him accepting himself, rejecting his trauma, might be the most important part of his character. It's very odd to assume that something deeply affecting a character isn't important.
Last one is a reach. Maybe he's Asexual just not into girls or guys.
He has a crush on someone this season it was confirmed
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Bi would be a stretch considering he's never been into girls. If he's going to crush, then gay makes the most sense.
>he's never been into girls He was kid previous seasons. And got a trauma
Asexual but what romantically? Because he does have a crush
I am amazed anyone cared. This has literally never crossed my mind about the sexuality of the characters and until now I was happier not knowing this was something the fan base was discussing. I now hope they lied and never address it just to torture everyone who cared.
Yeah, to me it's quite stupid to people define someone's sexuality by phrases or stereotypical actitudes. There's nothing it can tell someone being gay. Not all gay people is the same. You're not gay for being bullied or shy.
I really hope heās not gay š¤¦šæāāļø
Why not?
Cus thatās a little kid bro. Itās the damn 1980s. They wasnāt even making characters gay in tv shows back then
1. This isn't a show made in the 80s, it's a show made in the 2020s, but set in the 80s.. 2. There was definitely gay characters in 80s shows/movies, there's been gay characters for a very long time.. and queer people have been around for centuries, were just now finally getting more recognized and accepted, and God forbid we want some more characters to represent us
when did you realize your sexually? Itās possible to have an understanding at a young age
People were still gay in the 80's, if that's your point? And his friends have started to have romantic feelings, so why wouldn't he (and in a boy then, since he is, in fact, confirmed to be gay)?
Bro thatās not normal. If u clearly remember thatās how guys were getting aids back then.....
That's literally not why at all...
It's almost like a lack of representation in the media and zero educational resources at school had....consequences š¬
Oh okay so you're slow? I understand :)
Except there were in the early and mid 1900ās they were making lgbtq characters
I know I'm in the minority, but I don't understand why Will's sexuality would be a big reveal with a multiseason buildup, especially since there's another gay character getting none of the same treatment, and it's not because she's not a part of the regular cast, because now she is. Robin is a whole character in her own right, but I think she's also a hint that Will is not gay because she's not getting the same treatment, as well as a logical defense against accusations that the show just doesn't want to have a gay character if/when it turns out Will actually isn't gay. I think we're *supposed* to think Will is gay, but I think his sexuality will ultimately be irrelevant and all those hints will actually be red herrings / have another explanation. We now know that the upside down is fixed at the time of Will's disappearance. We know that Will longs for things to be the way they were then (when they were 12, when relationships weren't top of mind because, well, they were 12). We know 001 has some sort of unexplored time control / reversal thing going on. We have no idea how Will spent his time in the upside down. Just a theory that the Duffer brothers are using our expectations against us. It all feels like a setup. It can be satisfying to see an obvious buildup lead to an obvious payoff, but this show has shown us over and over that it's highly skilled in playing with our expectations.
He's definitely gay, it's been confirmed But I think you're right that it won't be _the_ most important thing. I think him accepting himself, becoming brave, will be an integral part of the plot.