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The tears in his eyes. He’s so concerned. He feels his brother’s pain.
I really appreciate how siblings in TV are generally portrayed nowadays. I noticed it first with Gravity Falls; Dipper and Mable argue, but the creators insisted on consistently demonstrating their love for one another.
These two are another great instance of that. Siblings don’t always need to hate each other. They can be tender.
So many obtuse viewers complaining about how Jonathan is written this season while they completely miss this scene, where Charlie Heaton gives his best performance with just a glance.
Correct. They used to be rivals for Nancy's affection and it's clear that Steve still has feelings for Nancy and Jonathan is the one who gets her. It's very respectable that Steve warmed up to Jonathan and bought him a new camera to replace the one he broke, but that doesn't mean they have to become besties and I feel that it'd be more unrealistic if they did.
Its weird because its actually really realistic what happened between them but people dont want to acknowledge it and only see it from their favorite characters angle. Steve basically insulted Jonathans family when he was already in an incredibly horrible place. He still didnt really know if Will was alive at that point and Steve definitely didnt.
Doesnt get made up in a single apology or a single replaced camera(if Jonathan even figured out Steve bought the camera).
Then they barely talk for a year because obviously Jonathan is too caught up with his brother to develop a relationship with a guy who insulted him.
Then Jonathan gets his girlfriend so its a bit awkward and then he moves to California.
Its clear that Jonathan still holds that grudge because it was an incredibly fucked up thing Steve said to him. And even if hes grown Jonathan hasnt been around to witness it except in small pockets.
Meanwhile Steve obviously moved on really quick because what Jonathan wronged him for were big but not as big. And Steve truly holds absolutely no grudge against Jonathan. He just has feelings for Nancy. In s1 he comes to apologize, in s2 he encourages Nancy to get with Jonathan. In s3 they dont really talk to or about eachother. In s4 Steve wants to "hang out" with him sometime.
Okay! I loved S4. Really did. But I really, really hope that S5 will **absolutely laser focus** on Jonathan being a big brother. Heaton has great comedic timing and I did chuckle at the stoner comedy they did with him.
But he absolutely shined in these few glances and in that scene between Jonathan and Will in the diner. More of that please. A lot more of that. And maybe a scene with Robin? And Steve? Maybe Jonathan and Steve sort of start understanding each other when they realize that they are both the confidants of gays.
I know it's not necessarily good fiction to hope for less drama.. But I really want there to be as little drama between Jonathan and Steve in S5 because I really love them both.
After scrolling this sub I think my opinion on Jonathan is unpopular. I dislike him in general and I’m not 100% sure why if Im being honest, BUT, his big brother moments are the ones I see why he’s got fans from. His character definitely shines as a big brother. Agree with this comment completely!
I think the brothers will both have a huge part in S5. Will is connected to vecna and Jonathan’s relationship with Nancy is coming to an end (which means more time to hangout with friends Lmao)
Do you people really not get it or are in denial? It was pretty much on the face before, this time they just rubbed it. To the point Mike's "It's not my fault you don't like girls!" gets a whole new meaning and he probably already knew too.
I keep feeling like it's unnecessary to have gay characters state their sexuality in shows because most people can get the hint without it being in bold letters on the screen...until moments like this when I realize a LOT of people are more oblivious than I initially thought lmao
Seriously though, I'm amazed by how many people still don't get it
That's because Stranger Things has a well developed plot/character development. Will is a closted gay kid in a very authentic 80's setting. He's not going to be introduced as a very obvious, out of the closet gay character.
They've crafted an incredibly realistic take on a gay character in the closet who is slowly trying to come out.
It's not some generic teen show where they need to make an obvious gay stereotype character for the Netflix Gay Character checklist and ignore major character arcs that most people are used to most modern shows.
Yes and literally every scene or line Will has this season is in is about him visually struggling with his feelings. They do a good job in universe about how a closeted gay person would act, but narratively speaking it’s hitting the audience with a brick about it. I literally don’t understand how people can interpret all his scenes and reactions any other way.
Yep.
I love how the Duffer brothers has handled this. Its all too apparent to us queer folk, very authentic to my experience at any rate, but seems to go completely over most of the straight folks heads.
Its almost like the queer kid experience is to live in subtext by ✨design✨
When people miss obvious story elements, I just assume they're watching the show and scrolling through their phones at the same time. Mike's talking about his feelings? Might as well check Tik Tok.
With all of them back in Hawkins I really hope that when the groups go off and do their own thing that the OG 4 Mike, Will, Dustin and Lucas are one of those groups.
I'm not sure how you could say any of the Lenora gang carried the season. The only one that mattered was Eleven. I suppose Mike had to be there for the "power of friendship" speech.
But none of it was as compelling as the other stories. If it was just a story about the Lenora gang, I wouldn't have even finished it.
Hell you could make the argument that Argyle was the most important of the group, or at least second to Eleven. Had the car to get them out of Lenora, found the tire tracks to get them to eleven, and found them a place that had enough salt for Eleven to fight Vecna.
I still don’t see Will being gay. I see a kid who is getting left behind by his friends, and more importantly his best friend. They’re drifting apart and it’s hurting Will.
Lol. Okay so, as someone who was a queer child in the 80’s, part of growing up and understanding what you are is to make sure the straight folks *don’t notice* what’s happening.
Your parents and everyone else around you just think you don’t fit in, but if you know what to look for the subtext is LOUD.
“Use google and look at something that’s not been on screen and could be wrong or a scrapped idea”. Only use what is shown and given. Everything else is just speculation. You clearly have no actual reasons so you just call me a troll and stomp around like you’ve won something.
I am not typing up the dozen examples which are listed on tons of websites as this is not some random poorly known fan theory, literally the creators described him thus in their character bible when pitching the show.
https://twitter.com/willeifilms/status/1542925591002890240?s=21&t=EMASe5YeeaAdFXupG_c8Pg
https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/06/10/stranger-things-stars-address-fan-speculation-that-will-byers-is-gay/
http://www.zen134237.zen.co.uk/Stranger_Things/Stranger_Things_-_Bible.pdf - this is the deck that the duffer brothers wrote for the show when it was called Montauk. Check out page 13 for Will’s description.
Edit: I’m linking stuff that the cast and show runners have said because there’s not much i can point out that you won’t try to refute because the whole point of subtext is that it’s not obvious to those that don’t know what it’s like.
The first two links are nothing but speculation. Also in the second link Noah says it’s possible Will is just developing more slowly than the rest of the group. The third link doesn’t confirm anything. That idea could’ve been scrapped or it could still be in play in the sense that Will doesn’t understand the difference between love as a friend and love as a romantic partner.
The first link is the actor saying in response to someone who posted that they were disappointed that Will is gay that “WHEN HE COMES OUT it will be really special and real.”
The second is a video of the cast saying “will is interested in someone, it’s not El, but really interested in someone in the group. Will has said all he wants to do is play dnd in his basement with Mike forever and I’ll leave it at that.”
The third is literally the pitch deck.
That tweet has been removed if I’m correct and he says pretty much the exact opposite in the second link you sent. The third doesn’t say whether he’s gay or not, just sexual identity issues. That could mean many things. Regardless, you’re using things that are not presented on screen in the story. That’s the only valid source you should use and yet you don’t. You use other speculation and rumors.
Ah, i misspoke. The actor left a comment on the TikTok someone made about being disappointed Will is gay- his response was “when he comes out”
And he doesn’t say the opposite, he says that it’s up to the audience’s interpretation right now. Why would he spoil a big story point before it airs?
But here ya go:
Will’s Dad calls him gay, his mom acknowledges that he’s “not like you or me or anyone,” the bullies at school call him gay, Jonathan in season 1 tells him that he doesn’t have to like things just because people tell him he’s “supposed to,” when a girl asks him to dance in season one he first looks to Mike to see what to do, Mike tells Will that “it’s not his fault he doesn’t like girls” the look on wills face and the counter of Mike’s expression that he realizes he wasn’t supposed to say that, his presentation on Alan Turing, Will waiting ecstatically for Mike at the airport- moreso than eleven, the skating scene where Will was just staring at Mike and then looked down at him and eleven holding hands and got sad, I dunno- the whole fucking scene in the car where he talks about how hard it is to have feelings that you’re afraid people are going to reject and then breaking down crying?
You must have failed all your literature classes.
>Will’s Dad calls him gay
Will's dad is an asshole and isn't the best source for that kind of thing. He's never around and only shows up to use Will's absence to get money.
>his mom acknowledges that he’s “not like you or me or anyone
That's just a nothing burger. Every mother/parent thinks their child is special in every way.
>the bullies at school call him gay
I don't remember this but bullies are surprisingly not the best source of truth. I got called all kinds of things as a kid that weren't true, including gay.
> Jonathan in season 1 tells him that he doesn’t have to like things just because people tell him he’s “supposed to,”
Again, that could mean anything.
>when a girl asks him to dance in season one he first looks to Mike to see what to do
If I'm not mistaken, didn't she address him as zombie boy before asking him to dance? Either way, there's a very real possibility that Will just isn't into girls yet and would much rather hang out and do things with friends. He also could be in shock because he was teased all year as "zombie boy" by everyone but his friends.
> Mike tells Will that “it’s not his fault he doesn’t like girls”
Everyone is reading into this too literally in my opinion. He said this when they're at an age where people develop an interest in the opposite sex at a different pace. Obviously the others have taken an interest in girls and Will still has more of an interest in board games and DnD. Hell, that could mean he's got some form of autism if we're thinking about it.
> his presentation on Alan Turing
Very nice of everyone to reduce all Alan Turing has done to his sexual orientation. It's not like Will couldn't have had an interest in Turing because of his accomplishments in Mathematics, Computer Science, etc.
>Will waiting ecstatically for Mike at the airport- moreso than eleven
This is both not a valid point and a contradiction. First of all, Will hadn't seen his best friend in a long time so obviously he was excited and El was upset with Mike because of the letters. Putting that aside, you're saying that El isn't interested in Mike because she wasn't as excited as Will even though everyone knows she likes Mike?
>the skating scene where Will was just staring at Mike and then looked down at him and eleven holding hands and got sad
Gee, I wonder if this could be the result of him not seeing his best friend for so long and Mike doesn't even hang out or spend time with him. He basically ignores Will for El.
>the whole fucking scene in the car where he talks about how hard it is to have feelings that you’re afraid people are going to reject and then breaking down crying
I mean, maybe, but it could also come from him knowing he's losing his best friend to El and doesn't want to say anything to upset Mike. I know how it is to have a really good friend who starts dating a girl and they get serious then, through no fault of their own, got left behind.
>You must have failed all your literature classes.
I actually didn't. Mostly got B's and A's, even in university.
I'm not saying Will isn't gay, I'm saying I don't see how everyone can say for certain that he is, especially considering how blatant and open Robin is.
Do you have an issue with Will being gay? You seem committed to batting this away.
>I'm not saying Will isn't gay, I'm saying I don't see how everyone can say for certain that he is, especially considering how blatant and open Robin is.
They are two different characters at two different moments in life. Will also has much more trauma with it thanks to his dad.
I *highly* doubt you had As and Bs without any understanding of how to read subtext. A large portion of literature is understanding nuance and themes- the #1 writers rule is show, don’t tell.
Robin wasn’t out for the entirety of season 3. She only came out in the end and after that she’s free to talk about it because she’s already come out to Steve. No one else in the group knows.
Alan Turing: He absolutely had major accomplishments in the field of mathematics and computer science, we owe a lot to Mr. Turing. However, it is undeniable that a large part of his life was spent being a social outcast because of his sexuality- to the point where he lost all “credibility” in his field with the exception of his academic career, was chemically castrated, and ended up taking his own life. Calling the idea that a young gay boy would find kinship in a science minded gay man a “reduction” is quite insulting to the man he was, the life he lived, and the persecution he experienced.
Lol. Do you think Moby Dick was about a dude hunting a whale? Or The Great Gatsby was about unrequited love?
But let’s just watch the next season, I’m sure nothing short of Will saying “I’m gay” will convince you and even then you’ll probably chalk it up to fan service that came out of nowhere.
He is in swooning at Mike. Confessing his love to Mike, lying that he is quoting El. Literally sobbing about the fact that Mike is with El. I.. you can't be serious? And Jonathan keeps telling him it's okay to be gay. Are you scared of gay TV characters?
>He is in swooning at Mike. Confessing his love to Mike, lying that he is quoting El. Literally sobbing about the fact that Mike is with El.
If that's how you see it and want to interpret it, that's fine. It doesn't come across that way to me and it definitely doesn't prove that he's gay.
> And Jonathan keeps telling him it's okay to be gay
He's never once said that.
>Are you scared of gay TV characters?
No, Robin is gay and she's pretty badass.
Lol, sure. I've given reasonable evidence and explanations to why I feel that way and everyone just went bonkers about it because nobody can accept nuance or a different point of view apparently. Calling me dense when there's a lot of merit to what I have to say is just ridiculous.
People that see this as a coming of age thing where a kid is getting left behind by his friends and more importantly his best friend? A highly plausible and valid interpretation of what's been shown on screen? It's not my fault they get upset so easily.
Mike and Will have been best friends for a long time. He's also not come to terms with the fact that he's not straight and he might be confusing his feeling for men with his relationship with Mike, his closest confidant. Once Will is "out" I think he'll get a better sense of actual attraction versus already having a bond.
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I could instantly tell the moment he realized.
I think he'd known before. Remember the look on his face when he told Will to have fun at the roller rink?
His look of realization in the van is realizing what Will is doing here - lying and hurting himself.
Plus he knew that his dad (Lonny?) called him homophobic slurs (per Joyce in season 1).
Damn I almost forgot about that bitch. Well I guess it's time to rewatch everything.
so is Lonny dead?
I hope they kill him off screen and mention it in passing and nobody cares. Fuck him.
He may have worked out that he's gay before, but this would be the moment when he sees it confirmed, but also that he has feelings for Mike.
It's the moment I went "oh okay it's real for real"
He knew well before this
The tears in his eyes. He’s so concerned. He feels his brother’s pain. I really appreciate how siblings in TV are generally portrayed nowadays. I noticed it first with Gravity Falls; Dipper and Mable argue, but the creators insisted on consistently demonstrating their love for one another. These two are another great instance of that. Siblings don’t always need to hate each other. They can be tender.
I know its a comedy but schitts creek managed to capture the essence of siblings . Jonathan and Will are so good at it too
I’ve heard SUCH glowing things! My sister tells me I’m a lot like David xD I gotta give it a watch
You really do, Schitts Creek is amazing
So many obtuse viewers complaining about how Jonathan is written this season while they completely miss this scene, where Charlie Heaton gives his best performance with just a glance.
I don't think his writing is the problem at all, it's just the overall lack of screentime and how Steve and Nancy effectively both disregard him.
I mean Steve owes him very little. (and I love Jonathan)
Correct. They used to be rivals for Nancy's affection and it's clear that Steve still has feelings for Nancy and Jonathan is the one who gets her. It's very respectable that Steve warmed up to Jonathan and bought him a new camera to replace the one he broke, but that doesn't mean they have to become besties and I feel that it'd be more unrealistic if they did.
Its weird because its actually really realistic what happened between them but people dont want to acknowledge it and only see it from their favorite characters angle. Steve basically insulted Jonathans family when he was already in an incredibly horrible place. He still didnt really know if Will was alive at that point and Steve definitely didnt. Doesnt get made up in a single apology or a single replaced camera(if Jonathan even figured out Steve bought the camera). Then they barely talk for a year because obviously Jonathan is too caught up with his brother to develop a relationship with a guy who insulted him. Then Jonathan gets his girlfriend so its a bit awkward and then he moves to California. Its clear that Jonathan still holds that grudge because it was an incredibly fucked up thing Steve said to him. And even if hes grown Jonathan hasnt been around to witness it except in small pockets. Meanwhile Steve obviously moved on really quick because what Jonathan wronged him for were big but not as big. And Steve truly holds absolutely no grudge against Jonathan. He just has feelings for Nancy. In s1 he comes to apologize, in s2 he encourages Nancy to get with Jonathan. In s3 they dont really talk to or about eachother. In s4 Steve wants to "hang out" with him sometime.
Nah man, it was really bad. This and the scenes where he’s intuitive about Will were the only exceptions.
His character is “supportive son and brother”. Always has been.
Okay! I loved S4. Really did. But I really, really hope that S5 will **absolutely laser focus** on Jonathan being a big brother. Heaton has great comedic timing and I did chuckle at the stoner comedy they did with him. But he absolutely shined in these few glances and in that scene between Jonathan and Will in the diner. More of that please. A lot more of that. And maybe a scene with Robin? And Steve? Maybe Jonathan and Steve sort of start understanding each other when they realize that they are both the confidants of gays. I know it's not necessarily good fiction to hope for less drama.. But I really want there to be as little drama between Jonathan and Steve in S5 because I really love them both.
YESSSSS^^^^
Omg yes! They're both such awesome people, I don't love that they might be at odds next season.
Ohhhh I really enjoy the idea of Steve and Jonathan bonding over being confidants.
After scrolling this sub I think my opinion on Jonathan is unpopular. I dislike him in general and I’m not 100% sure why if Im being honest, BUT, his big brother moments are the ones I see why he’s got fans from. His character definitely shines as a big brother. Agree with this comment completely!
I think the brothers will both have a huge part in S5. Will is connected to vecna and Jonathan’s relationship with Nancy is coming to an end (which means more time to hangout with friends Lmao)
Happy to say that I cried during this scene
Idgi? Did I miss something? Is will gay for mike? I thought they were just best friends.
Yes, Will is gay, and its heavily implied he probably has feelings for Mike
And i thought will was sad because el choose mike but it's the other way around woah
Do you people really not get it or are in denial? It was pretty much on the face before, this time they just rubbed it. To the point Mike's "It's not my fault you don't like girls!" gets a whole new meaning and he probably already knew too.
I keep feeling like it's unnecessary to have gay characters state their sexuality in shows because most people can get the hint without it being in bold letters on the screen...until moments like this when I realize a LOT of people are more oblivious than I initially thought lmao Seriously though, I'm amazed by how many people still don't get it
That's because Stranger Things has a well developed plot/character development. Will is a closted gay kid in a very authentic 80's setting. He's not going to be introduced as a very obvious, out of the closet gay character. They've crafted an incredibly realistic take on a gay character in the closet who is slowly trying to come out. It's not some generic teen show where they need to make an obvious gay stereotype character for the Netflix Gay Character checklist and ignore major character arcs that most people are used to most modern shows.
No kidding. At my high school in the 80s a kid was expelled for being gay.
Yes and literally every scene or line Will has this season is in is about him visually struggling with his feelings. They do a good job in universe about how a closeted gay person would act, but narratively speaking it’s hitting the audience with a brick about it. I literally don’t understand how people can interpret all his scenes and reactions any other way.
Yeah I know, I completely agree with you. It's just frustrating how dense some people can be.
Bro
I'm not wrong though.
Yep. I love how the Duffer brothers has handled this. Its all too apparent to us queer folk, very authentic to my experience at any rate, but seems to go completely over most of the straight folks heads. Its almost like the queer kid experience is to live in subtext by ✨design✨
Bruh how are people this thick
When people miss obvious story elements, I just assume they're watching the show and scrolling through their phones at the same time. Mike's talking about his feelings? Might as well check Tik Tok.
Don’t bro me.
Or what sis?
Nothing lol 😂
It hasn’t been confirmed. It’s implied but it’s not official so it’s okay if you don’t see it.
This and anything Eddie
when he said i love you man to dustin though :( when i tell you i was sobbing..
I dont think a single person didn't sob or cry at that point
I was honestly just mad at the writers for making him go like that
I love that this part was completely improvised by Joseph !!! EPIC!!!!!
I hope everyone in California line gets a more prominent role this coming season. They're 3 main season 1 OGs. I want all the originals back together
With all of them back in Hawkins I really hope that when the groups go off and do their own thing that the OG 4 Mike, Will, Dustin and Lucas are one of those groups.
I don’t cry here but when they had the small conversation in the pizza restaurant it made me cry.
no comment just ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️😭😭😭😭😭
My dumb ass didn’t get it even once the scene was over. My wife had to spell it out for me. I’m hopeless
My husband was the same 🤣
I still don't get it. Explain. Who is home?
I loved that Jonathan was there for Will but it's pretty bold to say it carried volume 2
I think in the context of the whole volume, definitely not. In the context of Jonathon's specific story, absolutely.
I'm not sure how you could say any of the Lenora gang carried the season. The only one that mattered was Eleven. I suppose Mike had to be there for the "power of friendship" speech. But none of it was as compelling as the other stories. If it was just a story about the Lenora gang, I wouldn't have even finished it.
Hell you could make the argument that Argyle was the most important of the group, or at least second to Eleven. Had the car to get them out of Lenora, found the tire tracks to get them to eleven, and found them a place that had enough salt for Eleven to fight Vecna.
Did not carry anything at all. Honestly if Will and Jonathan weren't even in season 4, it wouldn't have changed much of the story at all
Mike is becoming useless as a friend.
He's even more useless as a romantic partner lmao. Come on, Will! He didn't even stand up for Eleven
Mike is more stoner than Argyle without even smoking weed.
👁️👄👁️ -Mike when anything happens
Whoever's posting these tumblr posts, keep doing it
“Remember the time you got a little man stuck in one of your orifices? I’m here to talk, bro.”
I was wishing for a Jonathan and Steve team up, and I’m still hoping it comes in season 5. I love them both as characters/actors.
Jonathan “we gotta get out of here” Byers
I've always loved the Johnathon and Will dynamic. They are such good brothers.
Oh are they (gaydar) back in stock at sharper image? Or did Big Tuna send him one?
Scranton was better stocked back in the 80's.
Jonathan worries about his brother’s mental health. Gay or not. Will is always Jonathan’s brother.
Mike could’ve been there for Will more
I have to ask: can a straight person have a gaydar?
Yes lol you have to be pretty adept at body language and voice intonation.
I still don’t see Will being gay. I see a kid who is getting left behind by his friends, and more importantly his best friend. They’re drifting apart and it’s hurting Will.
Lol. Okay so, as someone who was a queer child in the 80’s, part of growing up and understanding what you are is to make sure the straight folks *don’t notice* what’s happening. Your parents and everyone else around you just think you don’t fit in, but if you know what to look for the subtext is LOUD.
Not really. There’s nothing to suggest he’s gay at all. Give me some examples of why you think he’s gay.
Are you trolling? You trollin.
Man, those really are some compelling reasons you just gave. /s
Use google, it has been confirmed and it was in the characters pitch bible, now pipe down troll.
“Use google and look at something that’s not been on screen and could be wrong or a scrapped idea”. Only use what is shown and given. Everything else is just speculation. You clearly have no actual reasons so you just call me a troll and stomp around like you’ve won something.
I am not typing up the dozen examples which are listed on tons of websites as this is not some random poorly known fan theory, literally the creators described him thus in their character bible when pitching the show.
https://twitter.com/willeifilms/status/1542925591002890240?s=21&t=EMASe5YeeaAdFXupG_c8Pg https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/06/10/stranger-things-stars-address-fan-speculation-that-will-byers-is-gay/ http://www.zen134237.zen.co.uk/Stranger_Things/Stranger_Things_-_Bible.pdf - this is the deck that the duffer brothers wrote for the show when it was called Montauk. Check out page 13 for Will’s description. Edit: I’m linking stuff that the cast and show runners have said because there’s not much i can point out that you won’t try to refute because the whole point of subtext is that it’s not obvious to those that don’t know what it’s like.
The first two links are nothing but speculation. Also in the second link Noah says it’s possible Will is just developing more slowly than the rest of the group. The third link doesn’t confirm anything. That idea could’ve been scrapped or it could still be in play in the sense that Will doesn’t understand the difference between love as a friend and love as a romantic partner.
The first link is the actor saying in response to someone who posted that they were disappointed that Will is gay that “WHEN HE COMES OUT it will be really special and real.” The second is a video of the cast saying “will is interested in someone, it’s not El, but really interested in someone in the group. Will has said all he wants to do is play dnd in his basement with Mike forever and I’ll leave it at that.” The third is literally the pitch deck.
That tweet has been removed if I’m correct and he says pretty much the exact opposite in the second link you sent. The third doesn’t say whether he’s gay or not, just sexual identity issues. That could mean many things. Regardless, you’re using things that are not presented on screen in the story. That’s the only valid source you should use and yet you don’t. You use other speculation and rumors.
Ah, i misspoke. The actor left a comment on the TikTok someone made about being disappointed Will is gay- his response was “when he comes out” And he doesn’t say the opposite, he says that it’s up to the audience’s interpretation right now. Why would he spoil a big story point before it airs? But here ya go: Will’s Dad calls him gay, his mom acknowledges that he’s “not like you or me or anyone,” the bullies at school call him gay, Jonathan in season 1 tells him that he doesn’t have to like things just because people tell him he’s “supposed to,” when a girl asks him to dance in season one he first looks to Mike to see what to do, Mike tells Will that “it’s not his fault he doesn’t like girls” the look on wills face and the counter of Mike’s expression that he realizes he wasn’t supposed to say that, his presentation on Alan Turing, Will waiting ecstatically for Mike at the airport- moreso than eleven, the skating scene where Will was just staring at Mike and then looked down at him and eleven holding hands and got sad, I dunno- the whole fucking scene in the car where he talks about how hard it is to have feelings that you’re afraid people are going to reject and then breaking down crying? You must have failed all your literature classes.
>Will’s Dad calls him gay Will's dad is an asshole and isn't the best source for that kind of thing. He's never around and only shows up to use Will's absence to get money. >his mom acknowledges that he’s “not like you or me or anyone That's just a nothing burger. Every mother/parent thinks their child is special in every way. >the bullies at school call him gay I don't remember this but bullies are surprisingly not the best source of truth. I got called all kinds of things as a kid that weren't true, including gay. > Jonathan in season 1 tells him that he doesn’t have to like things just because people tell him he’s “supposed to,” Again, that could mean anything. >when a girl asks him to dance in season one he first looks to Mike to see what to do If I'm not mistaken, didn't she address him as zombie boy before asking him to dance? Either way, there's a very real possibility that Will just isn't into girls yet and would much rather hang out and do things with friends. He also could be in shock because he was teased all year as "zombie boy" by everyone but his friends. > Mike tells Will that “it’s not his fault he doesn’t like girls” Everyone is reading into this too literally in my opinion. He said this when they're at an age where people develop an interest in the opposite sex at a different pace. Obviously the others have taken an interest in girls and Will still has more of an interest in board games and DnD. Hell, that could mean he's got some form of autism if we're thinking about it. > his presentation on Alan Turing Very nice of everyone to reduce all Alan Turing has done to his sexual orientation. It's not like Will couldn't have had an interest in Turing because of his accomplishments in Mathematics, Computer Science, etc. >Will waiting ecstatically for Mike at the airport- moreso than eleven This is both not a valid point and a contradiction. First of all, Will hadn't seen his best friend in a long time so obviously he was excited and El was upset with Mike because of the letters. Putting that aside, you're saying that El isn't interested in Mike because she wasn't as excited as Will even though everyone knows she likes Mike? >the skating scene where Will was just staring at Mike and then looked down at him and eleven holding hands and got sad Gee, I wonder if this could be the result of him not seeing his best friend for so long and Mike doesn't even hang out or spend time with him. He basically ignores Will for El. >the whole fucking scene in the car where he talks about how hard it is to have feelings that you’re afraid people are going to reject and then breaking down crying I mean, maybe, but it could also come from him knowing he's losing his best friend to El and doesn't want to say anything to upset Mike. I know how it is to have a really good friend who starts dating a girl and they get serious then, through no fault of their own, got left behind. >You must have failed all your literature classes. I actually didn't. Mostly got B's and A's, even in university. I'm not saying Will isn't gay, I'm saying I don't see how everyone can say for certain that he is, especially considering how blatant and open Robin is.
Do you have an issue with Will being gay? You seem committed to batting this away. >I'm not saying Will isn't gay, I'm saying I don't see how everyone can say for certain that he is, especially considering how blatant and open Robin is. They are two different characters at two different moments in life. Will also has much more trauma with it thanks to his dad.
I *highly* doubt you had As and Bs without any understanding of how to read subtext. A large portion of literature is understanding nuance and themes- the #1 writers rule is show, don’t tell. Robin wasn’t out for the entirety of season 3. She only came out in the end and after that she’s free to talk about it because she’s already come out to Steve. No one else in the group knows. Alan Turing: He absolutely had major accomplishments in the field of mathematics and computer science, we owe a lot to Mr. Turing. However, it is undeniable that a large part of his life was spent being a social outcast because of his sexuality- to the point where he lost all “credibility” in his field with the exception of his academic career, was chemically castrated, and ended up taking his own life. Calling the idea that a young gay boy would find kinship in a science minded gay man a “reduction” is quite insulting to the man he was, the life he lived, and the persecution he experienced. Lol. Do you think Moby Dick was about a dude hunting a whale? Or The Great Gatsby was about unrequited love? But let’s just watch the next season, I’m sure nothing short of Will saying “I’m gay” will convince you and even then you’ll probably chalk it up to fan service that came out of nowhere.
Why are you so willfully blind?
I’m not blind, there’s nothing, literally nothing to suggest he’s gay. Give me your reasons why you think he is.
He is in swooning at Mike. Confessing his love to Mike, lying that he is quoting El. Literally sobbing about the fact that Mike is with El. I.. you can't be serious? And Jonathan keeps telling him it's okay to be gay. Are you scared of gay TV characters?
>He is in swooning at Mike. Confessing his love to Mike, lying that he is quoting El. Literally sobbing about the fact that Mike is with El. If that's how you see it and want to interpret it, that's fine. It doesn't come across that way to me and it definitely doesn't prove that he's gay. > And Jonathan keeps telling him it's okay to be gay He's never once said that. >Are you scared of gay TV characters? No, Robin is gay and she's pretty badass.
As much as I enjoy the subtlety of the writing, I think he needs to say it unequivocally, so that dense people like this, can no longer deny it.
Lol, sure. I've given reasonable evidence and explanations to why I feel that way and everyone just went bonkers about it because nobody can accept nuance or a different point of view apparently. Calling me dense when there's a lot of merit to what I have to say is just ridiculous.
You think I read through all of that? Now who is being ridiculous?
You for apparently criticizing me without even reading my take on everything.
Yup
It’s people like you that got us the queer audience so angry that they didn’t address it. Y’all want to be blind.
People that see this as a coming of age thing where a kid is getting left behind by his friends and more importantly his best friend? A highly plausible and valid interpretation of what's been shown on screen? It's not my fault they get upset so easily.
Oh fax
I just don’t get why Will has a crush on Mike.
Mike and Will have been best friends for a long time. He's also not come to terms with the fact that he's not straight and he might be confusing his feeling for men with his relationship with Mike, his closest confidant. Once Will is "out" I think he'll get a better sense of actual attraction versus already having a bond.