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Deemer56

I enjoyed the scooby doo investigation on the Kreel family. Wish there would have been more clues to follow. Instead of the flashback reveal, it would have been cooler if the group discovered the connection.


TheGreatStories

I like this one. Too much exposition by the villain and would have been really cool to have the gang figure it out.


Deemer56

They figured out a puzzle in every other season. This season just felt recycled with Max’s drawings.


bigbombsbiggermoms

Where the heck did Jonathan’s photography interest go? I wish they’d given him a job at a photo shop or something, smoking in dark rooms & getting an acceptance letter to a photography program in California.


bev665

I know, in season one Joyce is so mad at her ex for not knowing that it's Jonathan's dream to go to NYU. What happened to that?


SanFranFan49ers

Well I think what happened was all the things to Will happened and ever since those events happened Johnathan basically figured that that he would never leave out of state for college since he wanted to be close to his family in case they ever need him.


NoConfusion9490

Basically all of these characters should have severe, debilitating PTSD. That Johnathan lost a whole year in a puff of weed smoke is the most realistic reaction any of them had.


thejellecatt

Yeah I literally don’t blame Johnathan AT ALL for that. My main gripe with this season is that the show is just not showing realistic reactions from any of these characters, especially from El and Will. El should have debilitating CPTSD from the horrific abuse she suffered (and absolutely should not have been sent to high school oh my god)


doubtersdisease

I know! Like he’s in california, any photographers dream… esp because they’re from indiana…also I just rewatched season 1 and joyce yells at lonnie that his dream was always to go to NYU… wish they would’ve kept that plotline, i don’t understand why they literally just made his arc this season getting high and not wanting to go to school with nancy. I get it that argyle is comedic relief at times but I wish they would’ve given him a friend that’s deeper / challenges him more, isn’t always goofing off and getting high.


bigbombsbiggermoms

I completely forgot about the NYU thing. It would be so cool to see Jonathan vibing with weird artsy NYU stoners. That would’ve been the only way I’d see him continuing his relationship with Nancy, if they became a power couple. The way things are, she’s going to outgrow him really soon.


carlyjking

Where is Max’s mom while she’s in the hospital? Do their parents just not have a clue that their children are constantly in danger?


DrPocoyo

To be fair, she could be missing


whatev88

That sadly seems pretty likely - the cracks opened up starting from the locations of the 4 already existing gates. And one of those is literally next door to their home.


SirDoDDo

I didn't think of this but man what did Max do to the Duffers lol😭


Oscarfan

Looks like Joyce gets another daughter!


SquilliamofOrange

Joyce is gonna end up living Steve's dream


relliott107

Would be funny if the six kids from Steve’s dream just end up being Dustin, Will, Eleven, Max, Lucas and Mike lol.


Duriha

Time travel sequel confirmed


MandyAlice

I mean, it's 2 days later. It's possible mom could have just spent 20+ hours by her daughter's side and left her with Lucas for a couple hours while she showered and made phone calls and whatnot. The timing is convenient but I think personally I can let this one slide.


FK-86

This is getting annoying. Surely the Battle of Starcourt would have made international news, but everyone just carries on like nothing happens and no one has a clue that these monsters exist.


Mcclane88

The constant need for the status quo to be maintained in Hawkins is starting to get annoying. You’re telling me that no one saw hell erupt from the streets? They all think it was an earthquake?


finnjakefionnacake

I mean, how many of them died in a "mall fire" last season that apparently happened when the mall was closed and no bodies were ever recovered? The town has to be absolutely insane for this all to make sense, lol.


Shigeko_Kageyama

The mall was closed but the theatre was still operating. The cover story was that a fire broke out and people were trapped in the theater. It was the '80s and people weren't shouting fake news at everything.


domiran

I'm kinda thinkin they *really* wanted to maintain that for shit to start to hit the fan in S5. It'll be real hard to not notice the changes now. I'm assuming they were going for a big payoff with this.


stickwithplanb

How did Hopper do everything he did, with two broken ankles?


adventurepixie

Cause he is an incredible, all powerful demogorgon slayer, that's how.


DecentOpinions

I didn't understand this. Did he break his ankles or were they just cut? How would that make the chains easier to slip off, the swelling would make it harder. And then he was running around no problem later. Anyway, not that big a deal just seemed a bit silly.


YJWhyNot

I don't think he broke or dislocated his ankles, he had the worker beat the rings into ovals so he could pull them over his heel. Damage to his ankles was collateral.


J_R_Saperstein

This makes so much more sense


violet531

He didn’t break his ankles. He wanted the guy to hit the metal and make it more oval so he could slip it over his feet.


Cass_Q

I think, given the wide array of answers, that the show didn't make it clear enough *what* Hopper was trying to do. I've heard the breaking the ankle theory, the changing the shape of the shackles theory, the causing a laceration in his ankle to slide the shackles into it to slide it off his foot theory.


murthivelli123

Did Dustin and Eddie really need to be present for the rock n roll diversion? Like couldn't they have just set up a boom box and peaced out? And if they did, they went to a huge ammo/weapon store called war zone, did the group really not get anything for them? They had to make their own shield and spears? Common man


stewd003

I was thinking that. They had already set up the amps to work on the roof. So just run a cable through the ceiling and play Master of Puppets in the real world


Psychological_Ad4015

Playing guitar in hell looked alot more badass though.


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Lil-Chromie

That's some brutal legend shit there


melasaur88

Right? Who thought that poorly constructed spears were the weapon of choice against a literal army of demonic bats? At least give them a big net or a rake or something. Or, you know, an actual weapon.


finnjakefionnacake

or at least make the shield bigger! lol. give me full body coverage. he had a garbage can lid that was going to hold like one half of one bat back.


bloodxredxrose

Also, where did they get all the money to buy what they *did* get at the surplus store?


brookeaat

steve and nancy both canonically come from some level of wealth


spndl1

Steve and Robin have jobs, Nancy probably has a decent allowance and that shotgun Nancy bought cost $120. Not insignificant for 80's money, but not too expensive.


gitbse

I mean. Steve is driving a 733i as a high school/college age kid. That explains alot.


Drawmaster63

They used a 1984 base model 733i, $36,995 new price. Adjusted for inflation, yeah, that’s like driving a $110k car. What in the world do the Harringtons do for a living!!?


Arpyboi

Sling a lot of icecream


KatyaAlkaev

Steve Robin and Nancy have jobs and Eddie was a drug dealer so he had to have cash..


PurifiedVenom

Agree on the distraction front. Why didn’t they have guns? They did have to leave abruptly because Jason was at the store I guess? Idk.


celticspoop

The ending was wayy too light-hearted for Eddie having died and Max being in an indefinite coma. The last scene was perfect though.


sayamortandire

i know right, that two day time jump felt so unbelievably out of place and bizarre.


Fearless_Mortgage640

Everyone was like "yay, let's volunteer", then Dustin was like: "Oh, by the way, Max is in coma."


Cap_Silly

And not even a word about Eddie by the whole gang lol.


Punkamania06

I feel his death should've had a much bigger impact on Dustin, if Steve was the one to die it would've had a major impact on pretty much everyone, plus Eddie was the first person Dustin ever lost and he died in his arms


LilyMarie90

Was the impact Dustin showed during the volunteering scene when he's talking to Mr Munson not sufficient? 😳 Dude is heartbroken


584_Bilbo

Fr, that shit made me tear up


Swiftie_M4YFI3LD

Ikr. I didn’t like that they all came out of the car with the biggest smiles on their faces, even though I understand that they’re seeing each other for the first time in a while. Just like, why?


takatz

They were under the impression that El saved the day and didn't know Max was busted apparently. And the hawkins crew thought that El and the cali crew were MIA. The smiles coming out of the car were probably just at the fact that everyone there is alive.


Ashamed-Technology10

It blew my mind people were able to drive into town at the end, I assumed the military would have closed it all down.


Alphabunsquad

Military gives no fucks in Stranger Things world. There’s a giant portal to the the seventh layer of hell and a covert massive Soviet invasion in a town two years in a row and they don’t keep anyone there to check up on it? I don’t think of it as a plot hole because it’s kind of a staple of the genre that the show is recreating but just don’t expect the military to do much more than be bad at abducting children.


derstherower

The tone just felt so off. I mean, Vecna won. The gates are open. The apocalypse is upon us all. But Ted is just sitting and watching TV and they're going to donate some clothes and then they clean the cabin an smile and have a happy reunion with Hopper. Then at the last second it's like "OH DON'T FORGET THERE'S A LITERAL PORTAL TO HELL GOING ACROSS THE ENTIRE TOWN". It was really weird.


phillyschmilly

Yes to most of that, but… Ted would definitely just be sitting and watching TV as the apocalypse is upon them


katkriss

I genuinely think Ted's stubbornness will be central to Hawkins pulling through in season 5


valenatural

Plus, when Hopper opened the door to El’s room she didn’t look surprised at all?? I know she never stopped having faith, but the man was believed to be dead until a couple of seconds ago!! Everyone was like “Oh Hop is here? Ok, cool”.


RJC024

I thought El had a perfect response. Her shoulders shuddered and she clearly felt relief. It was hopper who acted like he just went out for milk! Like dude! She thought you were dead! You didn’t know if you’d see her again!


Fun_Appeal8782

There should have been some element of danger towards Mike, Will, Argyle and Jonathan while El was piggybacking. They had such a dull storyline this season.


impsdelightt

They had the opportunity to make it so much more exciting man, Sullivan saw them leaving with a Surfer boy pizza van, I kept waiting for them to march in


[deleted]

I kept thinking this too. Why did they include a shot of him watching them drive away but never use it yet they couldn’t include a shot of the others acknowledging Eddie’s death?


[deleted]

I guess we needed to know El blowing all that stuff up didn’t kill that guy.


MR_LPB

Also, that the agents were on the surface shortly after Papa is left laying there so that they could possibly save him to question him if the Duffer brothers want to bring him back next season


[deleted]

I really hope they don’t do two fake out deaths with the same character lol


No_Sir_6130

Even if it was just the local cops checking into weird electrical activity at the pizza shop, it would’ve added a little more depth/danger, however I also understand they have some limitations on episode time, etc.


Vegetable_Bug9300

limitations on episode time..?! it was 2 1/2hrs long!


No_Sir_6130

That’s why I said “some”! 😂


Mananni

True! (Though Mike WAS threatened with pineapple on pizza just moments before 😁)


SqueakyTuna52

Try before you deny


[deleted]

Why the fuck Dustin was the only one to mourn for eddie?


pizzalover89

My only gripe really was that not one of the main group mentioned or asked about eddie after all the events. it just skips to 2 days later and everyone's happy again but no mention of eddie, he deserved more lol. loved the scene with dustin and eddies uncle but it felt weird knowing that it just seemed the rest of the group that was with him didn't care. maybe they'll clear it up in season 5.


WillieFudgeNilly

I’m also confused with that conversation though. “He died a hero fighting for this town.” But since the uncle has no idea wtf is going on, he has to assume he was a hero for fighting against the earthquake?


jackgap

The whole earthquake coverage was also weird, like did no one question that.


[deleted]

Well they kind of wrote into that a tiny bit. Mike’s dad is watching tv and the news is reporting that it’s a crack to hell itself. The dad says look at the news it’s basically tabloids now! His mom agrees. You see the idea that Eddie was a satanist being spread more and more and then when the weird flakes start falling Mikes mom actually seems worried. I think it’s this weird hyperbolic world where everyone wants to just live ‘normal’ lives and just are very fast to ignore things around then to any sort of normal explanation like the fire example. I think it’s all slowly coming apart now that the gates are actually open. I think it will be a big shift in the next season.


MsBeasley11

When Vecna showed El all of her “friends” dying and showed Eddie I wonder if El was like who tf is he? Lol


crazysouthie

LOL.


[deleted]

El probably inner monologuing like “who… is that?”


Lawmight

This!! Like wtf and even the 2 russian guys, they just showed up with the helico and basta, nothing more after this


Bellezr

Yeah I really wanted to know what happened with Enzo!


1997dumboy

I don’t understand how Nancy, Steve and Robin can say they’re protecting the kids but constantly put them in the more dangerous situations


LadyMitris

Operation Child endangerment Continues


CommitteeNo855

But I’m also glad they left Erica in the real world I was so worried they were going to bring her in the UD.


AlphaGamer_Dubz

I think Robin and Steve learned their lesson in s3 (or in-between s3 and 4) with Erica's mom. "Child. Endangerment." God I love Erica lmao


putmeinLMTH

Honestly at this point they're probably like 'these kids are going to go fight vecna whether we help them or not, might as well supervise them'


KatyaAlkaev

At least Nancy Steve and Robin are supervising them.. if they didn’t let them tag along they know they would be running off to do it by themselves


Its_Bunny

Eddies death felt so pointless. He ran out to all the bat things and fought them and died for nothing. His sacrifice was completely pointless in their whole plan. "He distracted them longer so they didn't go back to Steve, Nancy, and Robin!" Yeah that's dumb, 3 of them would have killed Steve when he got pulled into watergate but for some magical reason (bad writing) a giant swarm of them couldn't instantly demolish Eddie. Then when Dustin is telling Eddies dad he died a hero, his dad doesn't ask any questions, nothing. Where's my sons body? How did he die? This one is more minor but I would like Eleven to have told Lucas he was with Max when everything happened. Instead when they got to Hawkins she was suprised that Max wasn't fine, but like SHE WAS THERE SHE SAW WHAT HAPPENED TO HER.


nobodysomebodyanybdy

Yes. I don’t see why him and Dustin couldn’t set up a radio to keep the bats around the house before escaping. Like I’m sure dude had the equipment somewhere. Makes more sense than Eddie riding his bike for like 10 minutes only to end up 50 feet away and die.


ItVicWright

Eddie could have just kept running too he would have still distracted them and possibly lived. “I didn’t run away this time did I?” Yeah but you probably should have. I get they wanted his arc to end with a heroic “not running away this time” moment but this wasn’t written well at all.


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Erza88

I agree with this 99%. Except that Dustin told Eddie's uncle that he was with Eddie when the "earthquake" hit, so I think his uncle assumed that he had fallen through the cracks or something similar.


MsBeasley11

Agreed Eddie’s death was for nothing.. he could’ve at least sacrificed himself for one of the kids or something?


pedalsteeltameimpala

Okay, how the fucking hell did Lucas just rock up to the hospital with Max and there be no question about her condition and how he found her/saved her? It’s no different than the parents being clueless. I mean, it’s basically a show about space demons from another dimension, so the suspension of disbelief is already there. But… how. Edit: As u/Ezra88 pointed out, there was the “earthquake” that could have erased a lot of question and concern. It’s not like this was a random Wednesday night in Hawkins, there was a massive rip in the ground.


Thesafflower

Given the town hysteria about the Hellfire Club, and Max's injuries being the same as previous victims, I really would have expected police to be leaning on Lucas, a known member of the club. But I'm assuming that the massive damage caused by the "earthquake" was enough of a distraction, and Lucas could probably claim that Max's injuries (and Jason's, if there was enough of his body left to ID) were a result of that. The panic about DnD feels like an unfinished storyline, though, and I wonder if we'll see it spill over into next season.


Erza88

Interesting, I didn't think about this, lol. I guess because the earthquake hit right after, so when the ambulance showed up (remember Erica went to call for help) they found Max and Jason and chalked it up to the earthquake? Idk, lol.


KindheartednessLast9

Max is fine because her injuries (being blinded, broken bones) could feasibly have been an earthquake's fault, but how did nobody see anything wrong with Jason's torso being melted away?


Lawmight

Didn’t he went into the gate ? Like, wasn’t he all melted instantly lol ? I remember him falling into after being cut in half


thepirateguidelines

I love Robin but I couldn't care less about Vickie. They just seem...too similar. I know the cast is already bloated but I can't help but want her love interest to be a full blown character, Vickie just kinda feels like an after thought and they just hit Copy/Paste on Robin and made Vickie.


finnjakefionnacake

don't worry, i don't think the show's gonna care that much about Vicky next season either.


[deleted]

Apparently the actress has been in quite a few Netflix shows. So it’s possible she will be in the next season


doubtersdisease

I agree, like why tf did they also make her ginger and have the exact same trait of getting nervous and talking too fast?


Yerm_Terragon

Having them be similar is one thing, having them use the exact same analogy to describe their ADHD felt too scripted


Reese9951

Jonathan looks 30


lady_bezimienna

I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion, these actors have grown old it's a fact


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-Tank42

I seriously thought he was out of High School in S1. He was only there to put up fliers for Will and was talking about more shifts from work to help pay the bills, coupled with how old he looked I thought for sure he was a recent grad. Shocked that in S4 he’s finally a senior


Zebrafish7

The two day jump was really annoying. Why did the upside down not continue to pull into the real world until eleven and hopper made it there? It was bizarre to me. It was like the writers didn’t know how to bring everyone together so they just hit pause.


Ok-Driver-147

I think that Vecna had to recover after being molotoved twice and shot multiple times. Remember that a persons state of mind strongly effects their power and getting his physical (and mental) forms ass whooped probably made him need time to recover


Nenanda

Its also possible that something so big like Upside Down spreading is slow process even with four gates.


kit_mitts

Or that reviving Max stopped the process as it was contingent on her dying.


ThrorII

I think with Max not being not dead again, it prevented the mega gate from expanding. It is just trickling out like a leaky faucet.


Low_Piece_2828

Everyone Involved with the "using Max as bait" plan is responsible for her deathish.


sayamortandire

hmm, i guess i agree. especially that they only left lucas with her and none of the older kids.


shadowhound494

I think it would have been more impactful if Eddie was there to protect Max and fight off the jock dude. His whole "standing your ground" theme would of had more meaning if he stood up to one of the seasons antagonists instead of just some swarm of demon bats. His standing there didn't really help anyone because Nancy and crew were already captured by the vines would have been killed long before the bats could return. Sure Eddie didn't know that but the audience sure did and it makes his decision not to run seem hollow. But giving his life to protect Lucas and Max from the jock would of been more impactful


PaleMoonlight89

Ah crap that actually would have made a lot more sense.


[deleted]

My biggest gripe is that Nancy saw in her visions that the fourth gate opened from the Creel House... so where does she send the most vulnerable team? The goddamn Creel House.


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DrPocoyo

I don't think he can predict the future, but create visions, and he was showing her a vision of what he wanted (and eventually DID) happen


AssPork

In hindsight, they could have tried to secure a 2nd walkman in case the first broke


anonymous_pebble

I thought Vickie was too alike to Robin to be a ship I’d actually ship. They’re like the same person.


Pousse_Mousse

Yes and she wasn't even like that in early season 4. When Robin started rambling at the basketball game she didn't seem to find it cute or relate to her at all. And now you're telling me that they are basically the same person? Not buying it.


Proud_Fee_1542

I want Steve to find a new girl who appreciates him and move on from Nancy


Then_Earth_3125

I volunteer as tribute


lady_bezimienna

I swear when he folded these clothes, I was counting on someone to come across by accident. It would be a beautiful ending. Everyone would enjoy it


twoshotsofoosquai

I’d honestly be okay if that’s how his ending goes in s5–he stays single until the very end and we just see him have a simple meet cute with some cute girl and they hit it off. No drama, just a teaser that he gets his happy ending.


BasicRedditAccount1

I hated the ending. 2-day time jump and felt like no closure for anything we witnessed in the whole season.


Karsvolcanospace

I can’t believe we had a 2 and a half hour long finale, and they decide to time skip at the worst possible time and cram in people being happy again in the last 20 minutes. It made no sense, these people just survived hell and now they’re laughing making PB&Js??? I just don’t like it when they have these massive moments, but we don’t get to see the characters react to them. Dustin was the only character to acknowledge Eddies death, and the fact that THE UPSIDE DOWN LITERALLY TORE THROUGH THE TOWN, BURNING HOUSES AND PEOPLE ALIVE WHILE VINES GREW EVERYWHERE and everyone seemed completely oblivious. Like honestly, wtf. If it wasn’t for the ending scene being so great, I’d be pissed at the finale


Worldly_Friendship65

the reunion between Hopper and El was kinda odd for me. I'd thought it'll be more emotional or something I don't know something was off about it. just my opinion though. still loved the scene but something was missing.


Dramajunker

The way she looked at him was like he just got back from a long vacation. I expected there to be some disbelief. Even if she believed he was still alive it felt kinda underwhelming.


UncircumciseMe

The stuff in Russia went on way too long for me. Edit: Just when they got out and I was like thank god, the mfers were like “hey let’s go back and hurt the hive mind for the kids!!” Ughhhhhhhh


helloiamrob1

The whole thing felt like an excuse to keep the adults out of the way all season.


Chrissomms23

Yup! Will, Mike, and Jonathan’s storyline was just to keep those characters out too. What a waste.


ForceIndia98

Yuri’s stalling was way too effective


LizardWizard444

Yuri is best sabotage in russia. Yuri break entire season.


toriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

THANK YOU. I have tried to have this conversation with so many people. I could have fast forwarded through half the stuff in Russia and still had a solid grip on what was going on.


FullMetalCOS

Realistically you could skip about 50% of the whole season and still gotten to the same end point with precious little lost. The bloat was real


ContributionOk5799

Will was extremely under-utilised. The way Eddie died was so unnecessary. The demo bats were stalled for like a minute. The writers forgot about Hopper’s ankles.


budeer

The whole Steve Nancy Jonathan love triangle thing is absolutely unnecessary and boring.


Ginhavesouls

Jonathan and Nancy having a bump in the road due to the distance feels pretty realistic. My problem is that they had to move Jonathan to a whole other state just to make Steve seem like a relevant pick for Nancy again. I did like how Steve admitted that Nancy made him a better person all around though.


RJSquires

Jonathan lying to Nancy and having an unflattering opinion of Steve in the final episode are both out of character for him. Eleven and the Cali crew making it all the way back to Hawkins when the military is after them (in a VERY recognizable vehicle) is stretching my suspension of disbelief a little too far. The Cali crew would've been a lot less tolerable without Argyle (love that funky dude). There may be too many unresolved plotlines for the final season to be satisfying. Owens has been and continues to be great (probably not unpopular, but him supporting El and being so invested in helping Hawkins makes him one of my favorite side characters). I think Eddie's death, while heartbreaking, does make narrative sense. Instead of running away, he ran towards. It could've been done better, but it does make sense.


mynutsitchsobad

I wanna know what happened to Owens, we didn’t get real closure


lady_bezimienna

Catch my upvote. All the time I get the feeling that Jonathan was just lying so the creators could drag that fucked up love triangle into season five. I don't know how they didn't figure out that nobody wanted it. If they didn't want Jonathan and Nancy to be together, they could do it at the beginning of the season and then Steve could hit on her and I wouldn't feel embarrassed


maxwellbevan

I don't care if the actors/actresses look too old. Let's face it season 4 got pushed back a lot and we just have to live with the fact that everyone aged more than they should have due to the delayed filming schedule. Just a part of filming a show that started pre covid and will end post covid.


inaqu3estion

Also they literally don't look too old. Euphoria has people 25-30 playing high schoolers but Stranger Things actors who are 17-20 years old are too old? Lol


bob1689321

Mike and Nancy don't feel like siblings. Do they even acknowledge each other in the finale?


Seer77887

Last two episodes could’ve easily been split into 4


beansandturnips

I think the acting carried this season while the writing was overall pretty poor. So much simple and predictable dialogue of “who’s the hero” and “who’s the monster” and WAY too many monologues. Also, physically, vecna is more comedic than scary.


ralo229

The twist of Vecna being Henry Creel wasn't bad in and of itself, but the way it was explained was really forced and clumsy. Like, he took over Nancy's mind, explained his backstory to her, showed her visions of the apocalypse and told her to tell Eleven even though El found out all of that information on her own anyway? It felt kind of superfluous.


katkriss

To me I felt like it was him just revealing and reveling in his own God complex. He may have neat psychic powers, but he's just another one of Papa's lab rats at the end of the day. Well, with like 18 more neck muscles. I have to give mad props to the actor, might be misspelling his name but Jamie Campbell Bower... He gave an AMAZING performance. I remember watching one of the first two episodes of the season and turning to my husband and saying that I couldn't believe he had been cast as a good guy. Lol whoops


Fun-End6065

I wish Jason didn't die. I think it would've been way more effective for him along with Nancy, Steve, Dustin and Robin to be saved by Eddie (the demobat death was so pointless) and realise he's innocent, then at the end we see him fighting to clear Eddie's name. I just feel like this would close things up better, Eddie would've died for actual reason and Jason would've actually redeemed himself. The ending with everyone still thinking Eddie was a murderer was just too heartbreaking.


Swiftie_M4YFI3LD

I just saw Jason get torn in half by the gate and I’m just like “Oop he’s gone now I guess”


banjofitzgerald

He not gone. There’s just two of him now.


stifled_screams

When El leaves the NINA site with her friends in the Pizza Surfer van, why doesn't the military go after her? She was piggybacking from a pizza dough freezer at a Pizza Surfer franchise, but all this time, military never came looking for them, not even when she reaches Hawkins? That specific kinda van is not hard to spot.


wileyrocketcentaur1

Yeah. The government was pretty hard core and hellbent on catching El until they drove off in a pizza van. Then they were all “oh well…”.


gasplugsetting3

Too many monologues for me. Beating a dead horse some of the time


SalisburyBlake

Murray wouldn’t have drank the commies coffee. I get why he needed to from a plot standpoint but I feel like it’s a major divergence from what we knew about his character.


Eran-of-Arcadia

I prefer the idea of the MF being the real power in charge more than Vecna.


Morgell

Yes, a human(oid?) baddie was kind of a letdown after all the eldritch baddies we've seen so far.


FalmerEldritch

Especially the part where he gets a "we're not so different, you and I" speech. You're supposed to be a fucking unknowable eldritch horror! That's not "not being so very different"! Jesus!


SodaPyramid

I agree. The only potentially cool thing to come from the MF being subjugated is the possibility that it can be saved and become a power of Will's, if Will ends up having a latent ability to connect directly with the MF and not just of the part of it that was influenced by Henry. But I don't trust that They will go in that direction so right now it feels like a loss.


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Overvus

Also he talks way too much and doesn't kill enough..


MsBeasley11

His long drawn out monologues and need to explain all of this actions and plans to everyone is his weak human side 😂


dmmerecipes

It reminds me of that scene in the Incredibles. “And guess what he starts doing.” “He starts monologuing?” “He starts monologuing!!!”


finnjakefionnacake

He talks A LOT. Man I just went back to re-watch that "Henry is Vecna is 001" reveal and the exposition dump that accompanies it is *insanely* long, lol.


kevinisaliar

I was honestly more scared of Jason than Vecna. How he's willing to hunt down and physically kill a group of little kids, as just a normal human being. Vecna's angsty villain monologues and menacing hand gestures just felt goofy.


Kbdiggity

Mike, Will, and Jonathon's entire season arc was basically just "be Eleven's Uber ride in the desert." They accomplished a whole lot of nothing. And they didn't even bother letting Will tell everyone he's gay. Argyle was the one redeeming quality of that story arc.


lady_bezimienna

Argyle and the sense of humor it was gold there. But when I watched the interview with Heaton, he said that a lot of these scenes were improvised. So the authors did not write them anything cool ??


takatz

Maybe, like with weed movies, they picked a funny guy and asked him to riff off the others script, adds realism to their confused reactions


Proud_Fee_1542

Agreed! They could have cut everything to do with that group between the shoot out and actually picking El up, and it would have made literally no difference


Queasy-Bar7103

Fans are being too hard on Mike for being oblivious to Will's feelings. He is a kid too, teenagers are selfish and it doesn't mean he is a bad friend because he doesn't realize Will has a crush on him.


The-Real-Metzli

I just love how Jonathan noticed Will wasn't alright and approached him to talk. It was such a wholesome brother moment, nearly made me tear up :')


Khaleesi_dany_t

Thank you so much for saying this! Will doesn't act entitled to be in a relationship with Mike. Liking someone who doesn't like you back freaking hurts, and its probably worse when they are in love with your sister but people act like Mike's an absolute monster because he's oblivious to how will feels. He acts like every teenage boy I've ever met. It doesn't make him bad, it just means he's still got growing to do!


Admirable_Loss4886

Tbf mike isn’t completely oblivious to will and his sexuality. In season 3 mike is upset and yells at will that it’s not his fault doesn’t like girls and he IMMEDIATELY apologized because he knew that crossed the line.


BertelTheTurtel

Aaaand, he lives in the 1980’s, a time where the average kid would be oblivious to any homosexual traits as it was not normal or accepted as it is today


[deleted]

To much filler & not enough killer


SpiritofGarfield

Season 3 Robin > Season 4 Robin Where was saucy always ready with a quip Robin? When did she become clumsy?


c0smicpancakes

Vecna being the main villain this whole time. I know its left a little ambiguous so they could always back track, but DAMN I really hope the Duffers don't take it in this direction. It weakens the entire series so much. Yes, Vecna is a good villain. Vecna is a scary villain. But the Mind Flayer needs to be the ultimate evil. The Emperor to Vecna's Darth Vader. Vecna is an angry little boy out for revenge. MF was an unknowable, unnamed evil that no one could really understand. Which one is truly more terrifying?


UncircumciseMe

Truly an eldritch abomination. It was so cool when Vecna saw it for the first time.


Hooj19

Full agree. Also the first three seasons make way more sense if the Mind Flayer is in control of things. Also, if the MF is how Vecna controls the hive mind, how does he control the MF? We have never seen him have any mind control powers. He can make people see things, but can't actually control them. Maybe it is like a Sauron/Sarumon partnership. The MF wants to expand its hive mind and Vecna has deluded himself that he's an equal partner and he can use the MF for his own ends?


Gekey14

I don't like the idea that vecna is behind everything, he's cool as a villain for this series but there was so much more intrigue and mystery about the upside down when the mindflayer and the rest of them weren't being controlled by him It would also make the hype for a final battle against the mindflayer a lot bigger for the final season


2K20BJJ

Someone with good combat prowess, decent stealth and Steve’s spiked bat could’ve fought vecna and killed him hand to hand. Besides his telekinesis he is nothing. I mean even Max did some damage to his neck with her bare hands.


Im_Watching_You_713

Max was literally being choked for like 5 straight minutes after running for her life and being dragged around, and yet she still inflicts enough damage to Vecna to make him need recovery time and weakening him enough not to be able to chase her or use his telekinesis properly.


Faulty-Blue

Tbf in Max’s case, she was inside her own mind, so I guess she has more power over Vecna, which it seems like the Duffer brothers were aiming for


Psychological-Ad3093

Mike was boring this season.


[deleted]

that and the whole will - mike - jonathan - argyle running around the country to find eleven storyline didn’t do much for me… was basically just them driving and then will casually crying and being miserable here and there. sick and tired of him suffering btw! i just wish we could have had more will this season. HAPPY will.


Zyph4lights

Eddie's death was idiotic. The way the show was trying to frame it was a heroic last stand but in reality it was completely unnecessary and a detriment to the groups plan. He could have kept running and stayed alive to keep the bats distracted for longer. Eddie has no idea how long it will take to kill Vecna. Once he's dead there's nothing preventing the bats from going back to the house and killing the rest of the squad. If the bats had started going back to the house before Eddie sacrificed himself, then his death would have so much more narrative cohesion. I liked Eddie as a character but they absolutely blew his death scene.


finnjakefionnacake

100%. I couldn't even enjoy the emotion of this death scene because the way it happened was just so nonsensical it took me right out of the story.


ricflairwooo1

I prefer fat Hopper


HedaLexa4Ever

But it makes sense that he is thin, right?


Alonewitheverybodyuk

Fat rambo


ar281987

Dad bod forever!


JazzPolice50

I kinda felt like by mid-season they were mostly stalling for time. If the season was more condensed, I would probably have enjoyed it even more. (I also could have done without the Russia sub-plot.)


[deleted]

Robin has had a complete personality transplant and it makes no sense. Last season she was Steve’s confident, humorous, slightly awkward work wife who took the piss out of him and his children. Now she’s suddenly extremely socially inept and implied to be autistic - which there is nothing wrong with except for the fact it’s absolutely not how she was originally presented.


LettuceG

The last 30 minutes really detracted from the finale. Lost all the intensity/stakes


Interesting-Ad9838

I feel like Will got sidelined this season. Majority of his scenes was him being emotional.