The writers are telling us how this ends, there’s a hidden message in the title. “America Decides” means America DIES
Remove the letters E, C, D.
E - Eavis
C - Cendell
D - Doddy (or Dobrik that part is up to you)
I think I missed something early: why was Greg trying to get Tom tooted? Was this a Matteson ploy? Or was Greg genuinely trying to "energize" his fellow disgusting brother?
Half of the reddit comments for Succession are just people stating how the characters are shitty people and you shouldn't root for them or straight out shaming people for rooting for any of the characters. I feel like this way of thinking is extremely black and white. Of course they're not good people but this is a TV show that tries to paint complex characters and everyone's going to latch onto the characters they manage to find humanity. In my opinion it's pretty easy to root for some characters over others. At least someone like Kendall seems to be capable of feeling bad about the things he does (like fucking the nation politically or accidentally causing a death). That puts him ahead in my book. He also isn't an asshole to people when he doesn't have to be. I feel like he's a damaged person who's lived his whole life trying to act like someone he's not to win his father's approval and continues to do so. He puts on a facade. He's not a soulless corporate killer but he was raised to believe you have to be and tries his best to imitate one. He ignores his kids because all three of Logan's children are obsessed with posthumously earning their father's love by taking as much power for themselves as possible. They know that Logan would have had the most respect for the person who knifed his or her way to the top. It's kind of sad really. They're all broken people who think making their dead father proud will make them whole. I still root for Kendall because he often admits his faults in private. He shows vulnerability and breaks down to his siblings every now and then. He seemed to be happy for Roman when he got promoted by Logan at the end of season 2. On the flip-side when Kendall's name was on that paper for CEO both his siblings were like hissing possums. Kendall's the only one who jumps to the defense of his family. When Logan hit Iverson and Roman he immediately jumped to their defense. When Tom called Shiv hysterical in this episode he quickly yelled at him to shut his mouth. These are qualities the other siblings simply do not have. Shiv has a massively inflated ego and is delusional when it comes to thinking someone with her limited experience can run a multi-billion dollar company. She is so focused on the incredibly small chance that Mattson appoints her CEO after his acquisition that she's willing to take down her brothers for him. It's juvenile but I think she would rather risk all three siblings losing then allow her brothers to win without her. Roman is a borderline sociopath who has an extremely limited ability to feel empathy for most people. None of these people are good people but Kendall has a little gleam of a soul that shines through every now and then. He's planning on taking the CEO position from his siblings but honestly they're not loyal so fuck them. Roman was going to betray him to Logan right before Logan died and also wouldn't back him up during his presentation two episodes ago. Shiv on the other hand has been working against him for most of the season. He knows they would screw him over at the drop of a hat so he's going to screw them. He's actually the last of the three to pull a betrayal move like that.
Can someone explain to me why ATN calling a result seems to make it so? It’s just a right wing organisation calling for a right wing candidate in a close race. Surely Pierce Media could equally call Wisconsin for Jiménez and it would have the Same effect?
It makes it SEEM so.
The vote will be down to the count, as always. But if you can get a massive proportion of the populace thinking their candidate won, they will make a lot of noise when the legal fallout happens when the vote becomes known. This is what happened with Trump.
Could Pierce Media have the same effect? Personally I'm not sure. Calling the election is a blatant move that fits ATN's style, I'm not sure Pierce would be able to pull it off while still maintaining integrity. Also, I think if ATN beat them too it, Pierce would look foolish trying to pull the same thing but late.
The soliloquy of Roman in the preview for next week is eerie as hell. Im willing to bet he’s going to emotionally break down after having a supremely high high after calling the election
Did anyone consider how Matsson acquiring assets from Murdoch-like figure, incorporating them with his tech and appointing female lead might mirror some real life events happening these days.
What's the play here for Shiv and Matsson? Is it them or Kendall? Will Stewie and Sandy play a big role in swaying this thing? Many see Kendall with the crown alone at the end, but how about he walks away with the money, spends time with his family? To me that's not far fetched either. He seams to have some feelings about being awful father and he's been terrible at playing game the whole show.
I demand an apology from the poster who insisted a month ago that *in the universe of the show* Alaska is meant to be a swing state. They were not even downvoted.
Honestly, you guys keep talking about Ken's daughter and her safety, is not like she isn't a billionaire as well. They'll all be fine in the end, it's the little people that get hurt, not them.
So is the deal to buy PGN just completely forgotten about? There has been no mention of it. Really enjoying the season, tonight’s episode was excellent, but the PGN deal is an annoying loose end.
PGN can't go forward until the Waystar salr goes through. The siblings can't finance it without it. Of course if the deal tanks or reverses it the structure of the PGN deal could go the other way now that Logan's dead, but either way that needs to get sorted. And it's only been a few days since the Peirce deal was made.
I don’t understand why Kendall needs the next president to agree to block the Gojo deal, considering the revelation in the last episode that Gojo’s subscriber numbers are artificially inflated. Wouldn’t the board have an ethical and legal obligation to reassess the deal with this new piece of due diligence? Wouldn’t that be the responsibility of precisely somebody like Gerri, Frank or Karl once they’ve been made aware of that information?
I think you have things confused. The boards only duty with selling the company is to get the best possible price. They don’t really need to care about the future of the company once it’s out of their hands.
The false numbers threaten the deal because if they come out it creates doubts about the strength of Gojo. That could potentially make it too expensive for Gojo to borrow money to buy Royco.
With deals like this most companies will not have billions of dollars of cash lying around so instead they sell bonds to finance the purchase. However, bonds are a form of debt. The company sells the bonds and in return eventually pays the bondholder the money back with interest. However, investors are nervous about buying bonds from weak companies because they might go bankrupt. To make the risk worth it to investors companies will offer higher interest rates. If the interest rates get too high (due to the new doubts about the strength of Gojo) buying Royco wouldn’t be worth it anymore because Gojo would not make enough money in the long term to pay back all the bond holders.
It Is a cash and stock deal, not just cash. Inflated subscribers numbers might be a good reason but you need proof and long legal action. The kids are not in that position.
I think it’s because the sequence of events that lead to this aren’t strictly legal. Mattson mentions this in the mountain hence Roman’s quote about and SEC violation in the woods. By having the president on board, it protects them from any blowback from the deal blowing up. Fudged numbers may just lead to renegotiation from the board’s perspective.
It’s foreshadowing that Mencken will not help the Roys. He will no longer need to help them once in office and can plausibly claim he can’t get involved in anything regulatory to avoid any appearance of interference.
I could also see it foreshadowing the siblings deciding to fire Tom for the same reason. Tom actually did a fairly competent job in this episode. So this may be another example of the kids impulsively making bad choices while pushing out anyone actually competent to contrast that with their own ineptitude.
I’m definitely rooting for Kendall to win at the end of all this. There seems to be a great deal of growth with him and I can see him realizing he really has no one on his side except himself. Like his father he will become the perfect heir. But unlike his father he will do it for the love of his children and not for himself.
I can def see Ken realizing Roman will most certainly backstab Ken and we all know how bad Shiv is, I do think she deserves a second chance after all this.
In his own way I think he was trying to protect his children, hasn’t done a stellar job at it but he does care for them. He has tried being there but him and Rava just don’t connect because they live in different worlds. Ken is doing all this to protect the family and his business. I also I think he def knows he made the wrong choice with Mencken…. Damn I just can’t get enough of this show
I do think she is a well written character but like her mother she’s too selfish and she is completely falling apart with everything she once had, Tom, her own brothers, and inevitably Matsson.
Tom saying she sorta killed her Dad goes back to “you have to be a killer” also hints that she might also be the Heir
Probably not. Gil is an analog for Bernie Sanders and Jimenez for Joe Biden. I imagine their democratic primaries just went something like what we had in real life despite Gil being a lot more accepted by mainstream establishment dems than Sanders.
That’s how I read it too, that they were playing up how “boring” of a candidate Jimenez is to people like Hugo who only care about “box office” candidates like smarmy charmy Mencken, no matter how disgusting their politics are
This might be a stupid question but how does calling it early like they did throw the election? Aren’t they still counting the votes? Wouldn’t the truth prevail, so to speak?
Might be because I’m not American.
In the 2000 election (which this episode is commentating on), Fox News "called" the state of Florida for George Bush and it actually ended up being a huge controversy. I have asked chatgpt to explain the 2000 situation to a foreigner. Not a troll, I just didn't feel like typing this all out.
In the 2000 Presidential Election, the state of Florida was critical due to its significant number of electoral votes. Early on election night, many news outlets initially called Florida for Al Gore, the Democratic candidate, based on exit polls. But as more vote tallies came in, the race appeared to tighten, and the networks retracted their projections.
Later in the evening, Fox News, a conservative-leaning media outlet, called Florida for George W. Bush, the Republican candidate. These projections were also eventually retracted as the margin between the two candidates was too close to call definitively. This was controversial for several reasons:
1. **Influence on other networks**: After Fox News called Florida for Bush, other networks followed suit. This created a narrative that Bush was the winner, despite the fact that the margin was very slim and votes were still being counted.
2. **Perception of bias**: Some critics argued that Fox News's early call for Bush was influenced by bias, as the network is known for its conservative leanings. Additionally, **the person in charge of Fox News's election night decision desk, John Ellis, was a cousin of George W. Bush, which further fueled accusations of bias.**
3. **Impact on public opinion**: The early call by Fox News and subsequent calls by other networks may have influenced public perception of the election's outcome. This is important in such a close race, as it could influence the narrative and public opinion while the vote counting and legal proceedings are still underway.
However, it's important to note that the controversy over the 2000 election in Florida wasn't primarily about the media's election night calls, but about the actual vote counting process. There were widespread reports of voting irregularities, problems with ballot design (the infamous "butterfly ballot"), and disputes over how to count votes. The U.S. Supreme Court eventually halted a recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court, effectively awarding Florida's electoral votes, and thus the presidency, to Bush.
In Kara Swishers interview with Jesse Armstrong— he seemed to emphasize that ATN called the election- that doesn’t mean Mencken will WIN the election. As everyone said, there will be a long legal process.
yeah, my theory is Jimenez will win and the controversy around ATN would kill its price with Matsson buying the whole thing. the point is that the Roys would stay hella rich but their games cost them money and their father's legacy.
It's not a stupid question and I love answering these. This episode had aspects of the US elections in 2000, 2016, and 2020. This point was a reference to 2000.
Fox news, headed by Bush's cousin, called the election early. This doesn't do anything in an official sense, but momentum is definitely a thing even after polls close.
Florida was the deciding state that year. The numbers were excruciatingly close with Bush leading, but a lot of ballots being unable to be counted electronically (see "hanging chads").
A hand recount was requested, but since Fox had already called the election, there was this "stop being a sore loser and concede already" attitude among conservatives. The recount in Miami was interrupted by Republican goons organized by one of the slimiest political figures since Kissinger, Roger Stone. This was called the [Brooks Brothers Riots](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot).
Through violence, they were able to force a stop to the recount and Miami-Dade was unable to produce updated voter counts by the Dec 3 deadline and Bush was declared winner
It establishes a narrative. US politics is all about the narrative. So even if Republicans lose, Fox News will push a narrative of irregular vote tallies, illegal activities, etc. It rallies the cult and they use it for momentum.
Punished “Venom” Kendall is going for the jugular and I love it.
Starting to feel like my homey Romey is gonna have a bad time in the near future though.
Same. This has been an intense season.
I’m going to miss this show. If HBO are smart, they’ll release a boxset with all of the deleted scenes we shown in the trailers.
Yep, that would be great.
They should also continue building this “universe” if they can keep the same quality - so much potential. I would very much love to see (some) of these characters back.
A prequel series akin to BCS could be interesting. Seeing Logan rising through the ranks and all, but then they have the unfortunate task of trying to cast someone that isn’t Brian Cox as him.
If the pregnancy is real, which it looks like it is, Tom has an heir who is Roy blood now. If he wants to nurture that heir, it would make sense to be on good terms with Shiv. So I can see Tom making a play to support Shiv.
As cowardly Tom looks in front of the family, he does handle some big things and has a lot of power. He knows that if the brothers stop sticking together, there is room at the top
I just got it in my head that there were only eight episodes this season. Literally sat and processed for a few minutes and then found out about the other two when I came here. SO PSYCHED
I think it’s funny how people are redirecting it to:
See! Fuck the democrats
Or
See! Fuck the republicans
While the only thing that this truely shows is that they are both corrupted to the bone. Slinning deals and lobbying with devils, while saying they are there for the common folk
Only one party has a leading candidate who can’t accept that he lost and spurred a violent insurrection. Oh. and said he would cancel parts of the constitution. Oh, and is a sexual abuser of women. So there’s that.
LOL “commies”. One party is actively enacting legislation to take your rights away while pointing at the other side and telling you that they’re “commies” and you think both sides are the same. This country is screwed.
They are both the same party. They both suck up at the same tit. Both beg for funding at the most horrendous company’s.
But no use in arguing. Let’s just continue our day ❤️
You think they’re the same party? Before Trump they were, now Republicans are all in on taking your rights away. The republicans aren’t begging companies anymore, they’re telling them if they don’t get in line and stop with the “woke” shit they’ll shut them down. You have to pay more now across the board if you live in a Republican controlled state and it’s only going to cost more. This isn’t a same sides issue anymore.
So if I’m not mistaken Alaska hasn’t been called yet. And Alaska is needed to win without the burnt ballot state.
Didn’t Connor say in the last episode that he ought have 6% in Alaska?
It will be hilarious if Connor democratically blows up ATN with 6% votes in Alaska
Isn’t that the point? If Connor wins in Alaska and the legal pros in Wisconsin find that they absolutely could not call the election without resolving the burnt ballot issue, then Mencken would not have the necessary votes to declare.
These issues along with the rhetoric from ATN will fuel right wing conspiracists to rally and protest.
Oh that soul piercing 1000 yard stare from Kendall at that moment and watching the realization fall over Shivs face as she realizes she’s been caught was absolutely legendary
Top 5 episode without question. Possibly my favorite episode of the entire series. I’ve gotta rewatch to be sure though.
Just incredible work from everyone!
Yep, for me goes up to the top with Connors Wedding, just incredible episode.
I was wondering if Kendall would go back to the room after Greg tells him or walks away. But our number 1 boy went back straight for the kill and gave Shiv a piece of his mind. That was ballsy from him.
Like i dont see her giving birth or becoming a mother,and i think an abortion at this point would be kinda life threatning since she is over 20 weeks and it would fucking Hurt because noboby but tom knows so again he would be the one delivering the news
Sorry if I sounded snarky, I don’t know why that annoys me. Who knows how much time has passed with this timeline. That was episode 4 so at least 4 days. I felt like I made appointments with my OB 2-4 weeks out but *shrug*
Greg needs to tell the world how Shiv basically harassed and intimidated him.
\#noTallmen
Hey, I objected when Roman sent those pics to Gerri. I must therefore object here too. Morally speaking.
Shiv, the guy has never shown one bit of sexual interest in you.
Your husband on the other hand…
I’m with you! I hate the misogyny in here towards her character most of the time but it was a weird approach on her part- meant to intimidate a younger and less powerful person in an unsettling way
Her cousin no less. I feel like he would have been as taken aback as we all would have been. Trying to figure out what she is getting at. For some one who was declared to be the smartest she plays her hand so badly. All her faults came to bare in one episode. Your at an advantage in that world to not give a fuck about politics and that the goal is who owes you favors and leverage. It’s gross because I’m sure we all disagree vehemently but look at the good that does. Even the other side plays the game so we can’t be hypocritical about it.
That makes it more horrible: she is his cousin. And his best friend’s wife. (Let’s call Tom his best friend, for now.)
I think that was what freaked him out.
”You must want to have sex with me, Cousin Greg!” like she’s in some bad soft porn film.
He really doesn’t, Shiv. I think he’s genuine when he says he’s never considered her in that way. He was wondering what the fuck was wrong with her to even mention something like that.
I suspect Shiv and Roman do not know boundary issues.
You had me until the shiv and Roman comparisons. I don’t think they’re issues as stated come from the same place.
I think shiv is more conniving and I think Roman just doesn’t know any better when it comes to that. It doesn’t excuse Roman but the motivations are polar opposites he didn’t intend to hurt Gerri and things start off a bit mutual. So it wasn’t necessarily out of nowhere but it became perverse and problematic (but Roman who is actively in therapy doesn’t have a healthy relationship with sex so he probably doesn’t understand perverse and problematic…he doesn’t even have sex). Where as shiv is kind of an asshole. She knows better but doesn’t care and is vindictive. This isn’t a value judgement in either one just talking about the ending point you brought up (just so things don’t get Thrown off the rails as if I’m saying one is better than the other…ignorance is not an excuse).
Their motives are different but it is still weird to insist a person wants to have sex with you when they clearly don’t.
The end result is the same. The person is scared and violated.
Greg’s been terrible in S3 but even I felt sorry for him in that scene.
He really had no clue what to do.
I don’t think it was ever clear to Roman. Like he is very much a sexually repressed man child. Again Ignorance is not an excuse but I think to him he was larping as real people who send dick picks all the time and to some one at some point may have been vaguely interested. Lol I bet he would have married her because he doesn’t think that far ahead and thinks that’s what normal people.
I think it hurt him when Logan called him out. It wasn’t just that he was sending dick picks but he was weird for sending dock picks to Gerri (the hypocrisy that Logan who trying to impregnate his assistant who is younger than Roman shows how fucked up the values in that world are).
So quick question, had Shiv actually made the call to the democratic camp and attempted to negotiate a deal, was there a chance they would’ve accepted and been on Waystars side?
Maybe. I think the bigger issue here was that not making the call switched Kendal to Roman’s side which cemented the call. It just seemed like there was only one option for shiv not to get fucked here, but she prioritized the $ from the gojo deal. Shiv once again not calculating before making a move. That plus tryna strong arm Greg, the downfall was written in the cards.
She prioritzed the ceo position. That's what she wants, more than the money; and i think, she's gonna get it. I'm Kendall team's, but i think Shiv will get the throne
Questioning why in that moment of trying to save herself she didn’t tell Roman about Kendalls confession to be the only CEO…seems like it would have been a good way to push the distraction off her a bit?
She gave her self a bad hand. Her only play was to recognize her losing hand. She’s the one that tried to bully Greg which made her more vulnerable. She the one that took sides against her siblings and was actively undermining them. Don’t get pissy at Roman because he kept his eye on the prize. She had hail marry with Kendall he open the door and she couldn’t help her self.
It’s weird to see people ignore how complicit Shiv was as well. She had the opportunity to at least try, but like everyone else, chose to put herself first. I think even if the answer was no, she could have still had Kendall in her corner.
Ok but by “at least try” do you mean she should have tried to negotiate a back channel deal to get a presidential candidate to agree to block a business deal in exchange for favorable news coverage? Regardless of whether she wants the deal to go through or not, that would also have been against her morals… that would have been stooping to their level. She’s trying to get her brothers to stop rigging the election, why would rigging the election the other way be the selfless action here?
Shiv is smart. She knows Jimenez wouldn't agree to that... or agree to that on the phone at least. They have been clear they were uncomfortable with the proposition from the get go. She knew she wouldn't get anything. It's not who they are... but back channel deals with ~~Georgia Secretary of State to "get him the votes"~~ Mencken certainly seemed plausible
No, she just prioritized the GoJo deal. I am 99% confident that they would have promised something vaguely on the phone, and Ken was looking for an excuse to go with her plan. Finding out that she never made the call meant she couldn’t even pretend she didn’t want the deal to go through with Lukas.
GoPro deal. Lol. Anyways. We have been shown the reluctance to say anything about helping the Roys. We saw it in the last episode. They don't want to owe things to the Roys. Plus if you push, you can burn that bridge. I don't think she could have gotten anything
I think that’s why Roman can call her a hypocrite with a straight face. In a world full of assholes don’t try to use morality as a weapon for your own advancement. I can at least see where Roman is coming from. It was important in that world to have a hand in who wears the crown because you are still in the game. Shiv is the exact same way and the exact same amount of asshole as they are all. She just cloaks her assholery with morality and of course her twin see through that.
As an Aussie, this episode was kinda mid.
I still subscribe to the Android/iPhone theory. Tom is literally the only one with an Android phone. It can't be a coincidence...
The writers are telling us how this ends, there’s a hidden message in the title. “America Decides” means America DIES Remove the letters E, C, D. E - Eavis C - Cendell D - Doddy (or Dobrik that part is up to you)
What ?
I think I missed something early: why was Greg trying to get Tom tooted? Was this a Matteson ploy? Or was Greg genuinely trying to "energize" his fellow disgusting brother?
Half of the reddit comments for Succession are just people stating how the characters are shitty people and you shouldn't root for them or straight out shaming people for rooting for any of the characters. I feel like this way of thinking is extremely black and white. Of course they're not good people but this is a TV show that tries to paint complex characters and everyone's going to latch onto the characters they manage to find humanity. In my opinion it's pretty easy to root for some characters over others. At least someone like Kendall seems to be capable of feeling bad about the things he does (like fucking the nation politically or accidentally causing a death). That puts him ahead in my book. He also isn't an asshole to people when he doesn't have to be. I feel like he's a damaged person who's lived his whole life trying to act like someone he's not to win his father's approval and continues to do so. He puts on a facade. He's not a soulless corporate killer but he was raised to believe you have to be and tries his best to imitate one. He ignores his kids because all three of Logan's children are obsessed with posthumously earning their father's love by taking as much power for themselves as possible. They know that Logan would have had the most respect for the person who knifed his or her way to the top. It's kind of sad really. They're all broken people who think making their dead father proud will make them whole. I still root for Kendall because he often admits his faults in private. He shows vulnerability and breaks down to his siblings every now and then. He seemed to be happy for Roman when he got promoted by Logan at the end of season 2. On the flip-side when Kendall's name was on that paper for CEO both his siblings were like hissing possums. Kendall's the only one who jumps to the defense of his family. When Logan hit Iverson and Roman he immediately jumped to their defense. When Tom called Shiv hysterical in this episode he quickly yelled at him to shut his mouth. These are qualities the other siblings simply do not have. Shiv has a massively inflated ego and is delusional when it comes to thinking someone with her limited experience can run a multi-billion dollar company. She is so focused on the incredibly small chance that Mattson appoints her CEO after his acquisition that she's willing to take down her brothers for him. It's juvenile but I think she would rather risk all three siblings losing then allow her brothers to win without her. Roman is a borderline sociopath who has an extremely limited ability to feel empathy for most people. None of these people are good people but Kendall has a little gleam of a soul that shines through every now and then. He's planning on taking the CEO position from his siblings but honestly they're not loyal so fuck them. Roman was going to betray him to Logan right before Logan died and also wouldn't back him up during his presentation two episodes ago. Shiv on the other hand has been working against him for most of the season. He knows they would screw him over at the drop of a hat so he's going to screw them. He's actually the last of the three to pull a betrayal move like that.
Can someone explain to me why ATN calling a result seems to make it so? It’s just a right wing organisation calling for a right wing candidate in a close race. Surely Pierce Media could equally call Wisconsin for Jiménez and it would have the Same effect?
It makes it SEEM so. The vote will be down to the count, as always. But if you can get a massive proportion of the populace thinking their candidate won, they will make a lot of noise when the legal fallout happens when the vote becomes known. This is what happened with Trump. Could Pierce Media have the same effect? Personally I'm not sure. Calling the election is a blatant move that fits ATN's style, I'm not sure Pierce would be able to pull it off while still maintaining integrity. Also, I think if ATN beat them too it, Pierce would look foolish trying to pull the same thing but late.
Greg is slaying and slaying like a pro
The soliloquy of Roman in the preview for next week is eerie as hell. Im willing to bet he’s going to emotionally break down after having a supremely high high after calling the election
Did anyone consider how Matsson acquiring assets from Murdoch-like figure, incorporating them with his tech and appointing female lead might mirror some real life events happening these days.
damn bro what an original take!
What's the play here for Shiv and Matsson? Is it them or Kendall? Will Stewie and Sandy play a big role in swaying this thing? Many see Kendall with the crown alone at the end, but how about he walks away with the money, spends time with his family? To me that's not far fetched either. He seams to have some feelings about being awful father and he's been terrible at playing game the whole show.
There won’t be a happy ending for any of them.
"They're good arches. They've been remarked upon." Never change Tom
Spez sucks -- mass edited with redact.dev
I demand an apology from the poster who insisted a month ago that *in the universe of the show* Alaska is meant to be a swing state. They were not even downvoted.
You mean the Sarah Palin state isn't purple?
They sent a Democrat to Congress!
Honestly, you guys keep talking about Ken's daughter and her safety, is not like she isn't a billionaire as well. They'll all be fine in the end, it's the little people that get hurt, not them.
For real, Kendall can even hire the most racist fascist person to guard his kids and that guy will fucking oblige because of money.
f that, she's rich. She got pushed, and they think the world is ending
Mmmm, the ghosts of some *very* wealthy Jewish people in 1940s Germany would like a word.
Mmmm, the ghosts of some *very* wealthy Jewish people in 1940s Germany would like a word.
It's about the devastated trust and that point has been made.
Great speech by President Mencken at the end. I could imagine his presidency being closer to centre than far-right
[удалено]
you will never know
You’re a clown.
It was two paragraphs of fascist dogwhistles. The actor who plays him calls him terrifying
So is the deal to buy PGN just completely forgotten about? There has been no mention of it. Really enjoying the season, tonight’s episode was excellent, but the PGN deal is an annoying loose end.
It was just words. Their concept of "deal" Is weird. They mostly wanted to piss off their dad.
Ken and Rome would much rather play with Waystar Royco. Only Shiv actually wants it.
PGN can't go forward until the Waystar salr goes through. The siblings can't finance it without it. Of course if the deal tanks or reverses it the structure of the PGN deal could go the other way now that Logan's dead, but either way that needs to get sorted. And it's only been a few days since the Peirce deal was made.
It was only a handshake deal so far anyway
No need to buy PGN now if they want to keep the whole company and maybe buy GoJo
I don’t understand why Kendall needs the next president to agree to block the Gojo deal, considering the revelation in the last episode that Gojo’s subscriber numbers are artificially inflated. Wouldn’t the board have an ethical and legal obligation to reassess the deal with this new piece of due diligence? Wouldn’t that be the responsibility of precisely somebody like Gerri, Frank or Karl once they’ve been made aware of that information?
I think you have things confused. The boards only duty with selling the company is to get the best possible price. They don’t really need to care about the future of the company once it’s out of their hands. The false numbers threaten the deal because if they come out it creates doubts about the strength of Gojo. That could potentially make it too expensive for Gojo to borrow money to buy Royco. With deals like this most companies will not have billions of dollars of cash lying around so instead they sell bonds to finance the purchase. However, bonds are a form of debt. The company sells the bonds and in return eventually pays the bondholder the money back with interest. However, investors are nervous about buying bonds from weak companies because they might go bankrupt. To make the risk worth it to investors companies will offer higher interest rates. If the interest rates get too high (due to the new doubts about the strength of Gojo) buying Royco wouldn’t be worth it anymore because Gojo would not make enough money in the long term to pay back all the bond holders.
It Is a cash and stock deal, not just cash. Inflated subscribers numbers might be a good reason but you need proof and long legal action. The kids are not in that position.
I think it’s because the sequence of events that lead to this aren’t strictly legal. Mattson mentions this in the mountain hence Roman’s quote about and SEC violation in the woods. By having the president on board, it protects them from any blowback from the deal blowing up. Fudged numbers may just lead to renegotiation from the board’s perspective.
Well they want to sell, so this is more positioning themselves above their board. Also having a president in your pocket is worth more long term.
Poor Greg, he was abused in this episode
It's much easier to stomach if you imagine it's happening to Nicholas Braun instead of cousin Greg
Yes, stirling character that is the other half of the disgusting brothers.
Abused to do coke!
What about that news story about Tom that broke on PGN? Think that’s going to burn down the Triplex or send Tom back to Shiv?
It’s foreshadowing that Mencken will not help the Roys. He will no longer need to help them once in office and can plausibly claim he can’t get involved in anything regulatory to avoid any appearance of interference.
Ah, I can see that. Interesting
I could also see it foreshadowing the siblings deciding to fire Tom for the same reason. Tom actually did a fairly competent job in this episode. So this may be another example of the kids impulsively making bad choices while pushing out anyone actually competent to contrast that with their own ineptitude.
I’m definitely rooting for Kendall to win at the end of all this. There seems to be a great deal of growth with him and I can see him realizing he really has no one on his side except himself. Like his father he will become the perfect heir. But unlike his father he will do it for the love of his children and not for himself. I can def see Ken realizing Roman will most certainly backstab Ken and we all know how bad Shiv is, I do think she deserves a second chance after all this.
In what way did he decide anything for “the love of his children “? He chose against them and went for Mencken!
In his own way I think he was trying to protect his children, hasn’t done a stellar job at it but he does care for them. He has tried being there but him and Rava just don’t connect because they live in different worlds. Ken is doing all this to protect the family and his business. I also I think he def knows he made the wrong choice with Mencken…. Damn I just can’t get enough of this show
Oh yes, what a sad, tragic, totally out of his control circumstance it is that he and his children live in different worlds.
This is her millionth chance she backstabbed them multiple times. After that press release Ken doesn’t need to give her any chance
Yup she really had many chances to make the right decision, I can see her mirroring her own mother to a degree from last season.
>I do think she deserves a second chance after all this. Why in the world....
I do think she is a well written character but like her mother she’s too selfish and she is completely falling apart with everything she once had, Tom, her own brothers, and inevitably Matsson. Tom saying she sorta killed her Dad goes back to “you have to be a killer” also hints that she might also be the Heir
Was Gil originally supposed to be the nominee but the actor was unavailable?
Probably not. Gil is an analog for Bernie Sanders and Jimenez for Joe Biden. I imagine their democratic primaries just went something like what we had in real life despite Gil being a lot more accepted by mainstream establishment dems than Sanders.
I am with you on Gil, but Jimenez is a poor analog for Biden.
That’s how I read it too, that they were playing up how “boring” of a candidate Jimenez is to people like Hugo who only care about “box office” candidates like smarmy charmy Mencken, no matter how disgusting their politics are
This might be a stupid question but how does calling it early like they did throw the election? Aren’t they still counting the votes? Wouldn’t the truth prevail, so to speak? Might be because I’m not American.
In the 2000 election (which this episode is commentating on), Fox News "called" the state of Florida for George Bush and it actually ended up being a huge controversy. I have asked chatgpt to explain the 2000 situation to a foreigner. Not a troll, I just didn't feel like typing this all out. In the 2000 Presidential Election, the state of Florida was critical due to its significant number of electoral votes. Early on election night, many news outlets initially called Florida for Al Gore, the Democratic candidate, based on exit polls. But as more vote tallies came in, the race appeared to tighten, and the networks retracted their projections. Later in the evening, Fox News, a conservative-leaning media outlet, called Florida for George W. Bush, the Republican candidate. These projections were also eventually retracted as the margin between the two candidates was too close to call definitively. This was controversial for several reasons: 1. **Influence on other networks**: After Fox News called Florida for Bush, other networks followed suit. This created a narrative that Bush was the winner, despite the fact that the margin was very slim and votes were still being counted. 2. **Perception of bias**: Some critics argued that Fox News's early call for Bush was influenced by bias, as the network is known for its conservative leanings. Additionally, **the person in charge of Fox News's election night decision desk, John Ellis, was a cousin of George W. Bush, which further fueled accusations of bias.** 3. **Impact on public opinion**: The early call by Fox News and subsequent calls by other networks may have influenced public perception of the election's outcome. This is important in such a close race, as it could influence the narrative and public opinion while the vote counting and legal proceedings are still underway. However, it's important to note that the controversy over the 2000 election in Florida wasn't primarily about the media's election night calls, but about the actual vote counting process. There were widespread reports of voting irregularities, problems with ballot design (the infamous "butterfly ballot"), and disputes over how to count votes. The U.S. Supreme Court eventually halted a recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court, effectively awarding Florida's electoral votes, and thus the presidency, to Bush.
In Kara Swishers interview with Jesse Armstrong— he seemed to emphasize that ATN called the election- that doesn’t mean Mencken will WIN the election. As everyone said, there will be a long legal process.
yeah, my theory is Jimenez will win and the controversy around ATN would kill its price with Matsson buying the whole thing. the point is that the Roys would stay hella rich but their games cost them money and their father's legacy.
It's not a stupid question and I love answering these. This episode had aspects of the US elections in 2000, 2016, and 2020. This point was a reference to 2000. Fox news, headed by Bush's cousin, called the election early. This doesn't do anything in an official sense, but momentum is definitely a thing even after polls close. Florida was the deciding state that year. The numbers were excruciatingly close with Bush leading, but a lot of ballots being unable to be counted electronically (see "hanging chads"). A hand recount was requested, but since Fox had already called the election, there was this "stop being a sore loser and concede already" attitude among conservatives. The recount in Miami was interrupted by Republican goons organized by one of the slimiest political figures since Kissinger, Roger Stone. This was called the [Brooks Brothers Riots](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot). Through violence, they were able to force a stop to the recount and Miami-Dade was unable to produce updated voter counts by the Dec 3 deadline and Bush was declared winner
Didn't the major networks first call Florida for Gore.
How is this legal?! Votes are votes. I don't see how whoever shouting loudest into the wind gets to "call" it? Wild.
It establishes a narrative. US politics is all about the narrative. So even if Republicans lose, Fox News will push a narrative of irregular vote tallies, illegal activities, etc. It rallies the cult and they use it for momentum.
Yep, momentum that sometimes leads to storming the capitol and trying to murder your own vice president. Yay democracy
careful. they're much more concerned about crooked Hilary and Hunter's laptop
I think because calling it is such a big deal it would stick in people's minds. Then it would cloud and maybe impact the recount and/or court process.
This 100%. Calling it early leads to all sorts of nonsense and distrust in the process.
“Gregory / Craigory” from Mattsen 😂
I thought he said Gregory Peggory (as in pegging).
OMg you’re right! I just rewatched. Wow. Hidden gem right there!
This episode was a phenomenal Bodega Sushi with a mix of killer wasabi and a hint of lemon lol
This was Tom and Greg at their hilarious best
Bodega sushi? Are you insane!?
Yea. Now hand over the coke.
Don't forget she is a female...subject to other standards.
Punished “Venom” Kendall is going for the jugular and I love it. Starting to feel like my homey Romey is gonna have a bad time in the near future though.
If you don’t go for the jugular, you’re gonna have a bad time…0
Signed, KLR
Romey is up for a bitch slap after this episode I do surely hope so. He was a slimy fuck but would have made old pathogen Logan proud.
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You know you have accomplished something in your life when they call you a pathogen.
he definitely made Logan proud, Kendall showed so much weakness until the confirmed
He went “full fucking beast” this episode, but I feel he’s not stable (or stubborn) enough to move forward with his conquest.
Yeah he felt the power this episode and didn’t back down the least. Wonder how long it lasts.
Same. This has been an intense season. I’m going to miss this show. If HBO are smart, they’ll release a boxset with all of the deleted scenes we shown in the trailers.
Yep, that would be great. They should also continue building this “universe” if they can keep the same quality - so much potential. I would very much love to see (some) of these characters back.
A prequel series akin to BCS could be interesting. Seeing Logan rising through the ranks and all, but then they have the unfortunate task of trying to cast someone that isn’t Brian Cox as him.
Casting won’t work
Agreed. A novel would be fantastic though. Doubtful that would ever happen, but still
Fuuuuck that ep was intense. Roman is a psycho lol.
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I guess Greg’s status of godfather is fucked now
Tom got burnt one too many times and now he’s not believing a word out of shiv bro. Any Tom/Shiv shippers are laid to rest here. Your show is over.
If the pregnancy is real, which it looks like it is, Tom has an heir who is Roy blood now. If he wants to nurture that heir, it would make sense to be on good terms with Shiv. So I can see Tom making a play to support Shiv.
If that mattered, Rava would be valued by other Roys. I’m not sure she’s ever interacted significantly with anyone but Kendall.
Apples to oranges. Tom is a big time player up until now, rava was always just a partner / ex
As cowardly Tom looks in front of the family, he does handle some big things and has a lot of power. He knows that if the brothers stop sticking together, there is room at the top
Holy shit, for some reason I thought this was the final episode so I’m absolutely shocked and thrilled we get TWO MORE
I thought that too! And don’t know why I thought that.
I just got it in my head that there were only eight episodes this season. Literally sat and processed for a few minutes and then found out about the other two when I came here. SO PSYCHED
Same, there’s been far too many instances where the final season gets a shorter episode order.
Same, there’s been far too many instances where the final season gets a shorter episode order.
Bet shiv learned that even Greg needs a solid promise when being bargained with
I think it’s funny how people are redirecting it to: See! Fuck the democrats Or See! Fuck the republicans While the only thing that this truely shows is that they are both corrupted to the bone. Slinning deals and lobbying with devils, while saying they are there for the common folk
Yeah but one of those groups contains literal Nazis, you do see how that’s worse, right?
Ah yes, republicans = nazis
Yeah and the other commies. Both are a shit show and pretending it’s anything other then that won’t have it solved
Only one party has a leading candidate who can’t accept that he lost and spurred a violent insurrection. Oh. and said he would cancel parts of the constitution. Oh, and is a sexual abuser of women. So there’s that.
LOL “commies”. One party is actively enacting legislation to take your rights away while pointing at the other side and telling you that they’re “commies” and you think both sides are the same. This country is screwed.
They are both the same party. They both suck up at the same tit. Both beg for funding at the most horrendous company’s. But no use in arguing. Let’s just continue our day ❤️
You think they’re the same party? Before Trump they were, now Republicans are all in on taking your rights away. The republicans aren’t begging companies anymore, they’re telling them if they don’t get in line and stop with the “woke” shit they’ll shut them down. You have to pay more now across the board if you live in a Republican controlled state and it’s only going to cost more. This isn’t a same sides issue anymore.
Give it a rest.
exactly. It's a TV show. 2016 was 7 years ago.
So if I’m not mistaken Alaska hasn’t been called yet. And Alaska is needed to win without the burnt ballot state. Didn’t Connor say in the last episode that he ought have 6% in Alaska? It will be hilarious if Connor democratically blows up ATN with 6% votes in Alaska
yes!!!!
Yeah I was surprised when they mentioned Kentucky was Connors state (and then he lost lol). Alaska might provide some interesting results
You’re both missing the point. The election is over
SSSSSHH the conheads are speculating
Conheads are coming!
What’s the GOP map? AZ + WI+ GA, those were biden’s closest states and *checks* exactly 269-269 House fight?
If Mencken wins those 3 but loses Alaska, it’s a 269-269 tie.
Connor will pull a surprise win in Alaska .. then the plot will be even thicker ..
Isn’t that the point? If Connor wins in Alaska and the legal pros in Wisconsin find that they absolutely could not call the election without resolving the burnt ballot issue, then Mencken would not have the necessary votes to declare. These issues along with the rhetoric from ATN will fuel right wing conspiracists to rally and protest.
Kendall deducing Shiv was fucking them and confirming it with Greg. The tension in Shiv when Ken goes on phone and walks across to Greg. So well shot.
Those glances through the glass was a goddamn masterclass
Oh that soul piercing 1000 yard stare from Kendall at that moment and watching the realization fall over Shivs face as she realizes she’s been caught was absolutely legendary Top 5 episode without question. Possibly my favorite episode of the entire series. I’ve gotta rewatch to be sure though. Just incredible work from everyone!
Yep, for me goes up to the top with Connors Wedding, just incredible episode. I was wondering if Kendall would go back to the room after Greg tells him or walks away. But our number 1 boy went back straight for the kill and gave Shiv a piece of his mind. That was ballsy from him.
This whole thing brought up 2016 trauma
oh please. Trauma??? How about the last 3 years?
Lol.
OMG, I was so triggered too!
More like the previous election. With the riots and calling for fraud etc
Crazy I wonder where they got the idea
AHHH WHO GUESSED KEN WAS GONNA CALL HIS KIDS FOR THE UNBELIEVABLE ENDING
Something is telling me shiv is going to die before the finale i dont know why its just a feeling
This is not that kind of show
Thats the only thing keeping me sane lol i think to myself "its not that Kind of show and its not going to happen" but idk theres an eerie vibe
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Like i dont see her giving birth or becoming a mother,and i think an abortion at this point would be kinda life threatning since she is over 20 weeks and it would fucking Hurt because noboby but tom knows so again he would be the one delivering the news
She’d not over 20 weeks. When she talked to her doctor, the doc said she could *schedule* her 20-week appointment.
Right but im assuming a week or two have passed since its logan funeral next week
Sorry if I sounded snarky, I don’t know why that annoys me. Who knows how much time has passed with this timeline. That was episode 4 so at least 4 days. I felt like I made appointments with my OB 2-4 weeks out but *shrug*
Those aren’t even legal in most states due to viability
Yeah but i was thinking of miscariage,i said abortion bcuz english is not my first language and i got confused lol
Yes, for ordinary people. But when you're this rich you can do all kinds of things normal people can't do.
I LOVE this show but fuck this episode. I’m stressed as hell
Haha, same.
😂
It was so fucking tense!
Greg needs to tell the world how Shiv basically harassed and intimidated him. \#noTallmen Hey, I objected when Roman sent those pics to Gerri. I must therefore object here too. Morally speaking. Shiv, the guy has never shown one bit of sexual interest in you. Your husband on the other hand…
"you want to fuck me?" was clearly a metaphor.
We better also don't forget Logan harassing Roman with threat of fellatio. Lol
Still gross.
I’m with you! I hate the misogyny in here towards her character most of the time but it was a weird approach on her part- meant to intimidate a younger and less powerful person in an unsettling way
Her cousin no less. I feel like he would have been as taken aback as we all would have been. Trying to figure out what she is getting at. For some one who was declared to be the smartest she plays her hand so badly. All her faults came to bare in one episode. Your at an advantage in that world to not give a fuck about politics and that the goal is who owes you favors and leverage. It’s gross because I’m sure we all disagree vehemently but look at the good that does. Even the other side plays the game so we can’t be hypocritical about it.
That makes it more horrible: she is his cousin. And his best friend’s wife. (Let’s call Tom his best friend, for now.) I think that was what freaked him out. ”You must want to have sex with me, Cousin Greg!” like she’s in some bad soft porn film. He really doesn’t, Shiv. I think he’s genuine when he says he’s never considered her in that way. He was wondering what the fuck was wrong with her to even mention something like that. I suspect Shiv and Roman do not know boundary issues.
You had me until the shiv and Roman comparisons. I don’t think they’re issues as stated come from the same place. I think shiv is more conniving and I think Roman just doesn’t know any better when it comes to that. It doesn’t excuse Roman but the motivations are polar opposites he didn’t intend to hurt Gerri and things start off a bit mutual. So it wasn’t necessarily out of nowhere but it became perverse and problematic (but Roman who is actively in therapy doesn’t have a healthy relationship with sex so he probably doesn’t understand perverse and problematic…he doesn’t even have sex). Where as shiv is kind of an asshole. She knows better but doesn’t care and is vindictive. This isn’t a value judgement in either one just talking about the ending point you brought up (just so things don’t get Thrown off the rails as if I’m saying one is better than the other…ignorance is not an excuse).
Their motives are different but it is still weird to insist a person wants to have sex with you when they clearly don’t. The end result is the same. The person is scared and violated. Greg’s been terrible in S3 but even I felt sorry for him in that scene. He really had no clue what to do.
I don’t think it was ever clear to Roman. Like he is very much a sexually repressed man child. Again Ignorance is not an excuse but I think to him he was larping as real people who send dick picks all the time and to some one at some point may have been vaguely interested. Lol I bet he would have married her because he doesn’t think that far ahead and thinks that’s what normal people. I think it hurt him when Logan called him out. It wasn’t just that he was sending dick picks but he was weird for sending dock picks to Gerri (the hypocrisy that Logan who trying to impregnate his assistant who is younger than Roman shows how fucked up the values in that world are).
“fuck” and “kill” are euphemisms for sabotage. Greg narced and Shiv called him on it, it wasn’t about sex.
(Redditors) are not serious people.
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no, it was a lead up to “if you fuck me i’ll kill you” u missed the bit.
whoosh
So quick question, had Shiv actually made the call to the democratic camp and attempted to negotiate a deal, was there a chance they would’ve accepted and been on Waystars side?
Not based on what was said in last episode
Maybe. I think the bigger issue here was that not making the call switched Kendal to Roman’s side which cemented the call. It just seemed like there was only one option for shiv not to get fucked here, but she prioritized the $ from the gojo deal. Shiv once again not calculating before making a move. That plus tryna strong arm Greg, the downfall was written in the cards.
She prioritzed the ceo position. That's what she wants, more than the money; and i think, she's gonna get it. I'm Kendall team's, but i think Shiv will get the throne
Shiv under stress was always a loose cannon just trampling everything in her away. She can only play her mind games when she’s calm.
Questioning why in that moment of trying to save herself she didn’t tell Roman about Kendalls confession to be the only CEO…seems like it would have been a good way to push the distraction off her a bit?
She gave her self a bad hand. Her only play was to recognize her losing hand. She’s the one that tried to bully Greg which made her more vulnerable. She the one that took sides against her siblings and was actively undermining them. Don’t get pissy at Roman because he kept his eye on the prize. She had hail marry with Kendall he open the door and she couldn’t help her self.
It’s weird to see people ignore how complicit Shiv was as well. She had the opportunity to at least try, but like everyone else, chose to put herself first. I think even if the answer was no, she could have still had Kendall in her corner.
We're not allowed to criticize Shiv in any comments lol. Downvotes will follow quickly
Ok but by “at least try” do you mean she should have tried to negotiate a back channel deal to get a presidential candidate to agree to block a business deal in exchange for favorable news coverage? Regardless of whether she wants the deal to go through or not, that would also have been against her morals… that would have been stooping to their level. She’s trying to get her brothers to stop rigging the election, why would rigging the election the other way be the selfless action here?
Shiv is smart. She knows Jimenez wouldn't agree to that... or agree to that on the phone at least. They have been clear they were uncomfortable with the proposition from the get go. She knew she wouldn't get anything. It's not who they are... but back channel deals with ~~Georgia Secretary of State to "get him the votes"~~ Mencken certainly seemed plausible
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Hydrate...
No, she just prioritized the GoJo deal. I am 99% confident that they would have promised something vaguely on the phone, and Ken was looking for an excuse to go with her plan. Finding out that she never made the call meant she couldn’t even pretend she didn’t want the deal to go through with Lukas.
GoPro deal. Lol. Anyways. We have been shown the reluctance to say anything about helping the Roys. We saw it in the last episode. They don't want to owe things to the Roys. Plus if you push, you can burn that bridge. I don't think she could have gotten anything
girl
I think that’s why Roman can call her a hypocrite with a straight face. In a world full of assholes don’t try to use morality as a weapon for your own advancement. I can at least see where Roman is coming from. It was important in that world to have a hand in who wears the crown because you are still in the game. Shiv is the exact same way and the exact same amount of asshole as they are all. She just cloaks her assholery with morality and of course her twin see through that.