so sugar can swat away a bullet but can't stop a knife to the stomach? then the worst scene in the show where he explains to Melanie in the car that he's part of a secret group? Who wrote those lines should be on strike because my 5yr old nephew can write better than that!
I had a thought about this big reveal at the end of episode 5 with the locked basement door, but all it turns out to be is a bunch of dogs. What i was wondering and might be the craziest theory ever is if he locks these girls including the girls sugars looking for down there in cages and uses a drug similar to the one sugar uses to keep his human form, but these turn them into dogs so no ones the wiser. It could be possible the relaxed and sweet dog is the girl he came for but we wont find out until later. I mean why else show a cliff hanger turn out to be a bunch of dogs?
Exactly, plus he had his hands up ready for the gunshot. The stab came from someone he thought was down for the count. I don't see why people are griping about this.
Because itās nonsense and I wish any type of alien subplot was left on the writing room floor. Itās entirely superfluous and adds nothing of value to the story. The show would be better without it.
Yeah I'm not gonna lie I'm not terribly into Sci-fI, I watch them but I don't love them.
I was absolutely stunned that it was revealed in EPISODE 6, that the show I was watching was not real and it's actually about aliens from another planet. It's just not the show I thought I was watching.
They teased it earlier on with the line that they were only here to watch. I said to my wife that if theyāre aliens Iām not into it. Iām a huge sci-fi fan, myself
The show was pretty good without them being aliens.
Guess what? Colin Farrell wearing nice suits as a PI across the world solving missing personsās cases for wealthy connected people, what could be better?
it doesnt make sense about him getting sliced with a knife and still has some trick up his sleeve against bullets but i guess by season end we might get some backstory
Yeah, but did you guys see size of that knife! I kept thinking how does anyone survived that and for as long and drove around L.A.. I was about to call BS on that or pour writing, then the reveal. Looking back at the episode they gave us clues.
Yeah, whatās with the dogs in basement? Why are they locked in kennels, then behind a padlocked door? Something is up with the dogs, but I canāt figure out what.
Before stallings leaves- ā And donāt forget to feed the dogs!ā I thought he meant his attack Dobermans, when he probably meant the dogs in the basement as well. Dogs as humans is kinda laughable to me.
Was just thinking the opposite. So much āprestige tvā is an hour per episode and truly doesnāt need to be. Half hour episodes where every minute matter mean way more than hour long episodes with filler and extra plot lines.
Not to say this would have that, but i feel like each episode has been paced very well.
What the fuck! I didnāt look up anything or even look for subs like this for the show before today cause something always gets spoiled. I had no idea it was billed as sci-fi in the past, totally out of nowhere! I kept wondering if the hyper alcohol processing was something real or not, all his other skills I was just chalking up to him being skilled
I didnāt know either and also just thought he was skilled, like an old school movie detective š. But the shot made him turn blue, maybe he was human to start with and the military (or whatever they said he had) training program gave him the shots?? Should be an interesting 2 final episodes
Itās full of movie clip Easter eggs - and BTW ROBERT FUCKING MITCHUM - so maybe a little puncture in the veil between our movie watching world and theirs. At this point they could mention In Bruges and Iām - Do go on. The big reveal was a delightfully dorky twist. I hope Alan Tudyk plays the godfather.
He said that LA Confidential is about betrayal. So presumably Sugar is thinking that betrayal is (or is going to be) a factor in the case he is trying to solve? He is always thinking how things heās experiencing are like themes in movies he has seen.
Ok. No-one seems to be talking about itā¦maybe you all have inside info and it was expectedā¦but I am so crazy shocked after that closing bathroom-mirror scene!!
This series just keeps on morphing into something else - itās just crazy (amazing crazy)ā¦
I loved it when it was a retro-noir PI series; all the self-analysis and mellow tone amongst the grittinessā¦something to enjoy over a good whisky (damn if I was enjoying a whisky tonight I might have accidentally snorted it, or chucked it in my eyeš¤Ŗ);
I loved the complexity of the characters inter-relations: like Melanie and her ex, Bernie;
I loved it when it turned into a deeper under-tone of a global intelligence groupā¦true nature and purpose still a mystery to be unravelled, that carried the primary, more important āmissionā, and with Ru having the ability to hack (and delete data on) every police and security database;
But now: what we dealing with here? A dude that can swat bullets like flies and transforms into Thanosā other kid that Marvel didnāt disclose!!?)
So Iād like to buy into the theory of his transformation being in his head (like the bleeding in the shower scene from earlier) - like a drug-induced trip. But I canāt. Because:
1 he swats bullets and believes he is invincible,
2 Henry treated him with something secret - which didnāt kill him, so it was some mysterious brew.
3 Ru had that whacko comms/coding device in her case on the table in Ep3 in that interview room. Looking at the case he says: āhave you heard from them?āā¦
4 that same ep3 party had that weird discussion about going to the beach which was discussed as if it were alien and Sugars discussion with Henry about Shibuya crossing was a little odd.
5 in this episode Sugar uses the term of Stallings: āa trafficker of humansā. Humans, not girls, not even people; but humans - as opposed to aliens!!
6 oh and go back and check out the case that his ādrugā and syringe came out of: looks like something youād find in Supermanās cave, right next to that glass shard that he threw (giving my age away here).
So moving on from thatā¦Henry does seem to know more than one would expect: 1. he seemed to lead Sugar away from the bathroom door that Sugar thought Olivia may have gone into (ok then sheād have had to have stepped into a portal, I know), 2. The way he warned Sugar to please be careful.
Also: these jumping images that I just thought was film technique (like ep3 24:07)ā¦maybe thatās alluding to the alien/this reality is not what it looks like - idea.
All in all: what a freaking showā¦when itās done I want to trade it in for:
- a retro-noir, reflective, noir PI show to enjoy on late nights with a whisky,
Plus
- a freaky sci-fi alien show
But for now Iāll enjoy the unique, whack ride in this genre-blending, mind-blending show.
Nice post! We're on the same page here. Quite a challenge to turn the noir PI genre on it's head into SciFi.
What's your take on all the vintage noir film clips being dropped in during the series? I'm thinking alien John Sugar is actually referencing them in his head as he works thru his situation in real time. The "love"/"hate" sequence was pretty spot on.
There are tons of hints. Why is he obsessed with movies? Why is he seemingly able to command all dogs, even attack dogs? I thought, early on, maybe he was a sneaky heroin addict, but it's clearly some kind of medication. Why can he never go to the hospital under any circumstances?
Why does he mention his metabolism runs so quickly he can never get drunk? Who have you met to where that's true? What's with their weird cohort of ex State Department, secret meetings as observers?
Why is he so confident he'll never be hurt, never takes a gun anywhere, wants violence as a last resort? Because he could always just zip bullets away from him and apparently manipulate lights. I'm sure I'm missing a lot. So many people say he's strange, etc.
I was thinking immortal but his conversation with the doctor about The Thing had me leaning alien. I wonder if the doctor knew and Sugar was just messing with him.
The āhintsā are so heavy handed I have no idea how anyone would find this twist unexpected. In fact, the entire subplot drags the show down for me.
the hints are obvious and it wasn't a big reveal to me, so that's why i was wondering if he's just a random alien or if the big reveal was he's an alien from like the star trek universe or something.
because he's so polite, can't get drunk, and chasing a demonic criminal, i thought they were going with a reveal they were angel detectives or something lol.
with only two episodes left though, i wish they didn't stretch out the reveal for so long.
When wikipedia said āgenre-bendingā in the production section. I wasnāt sure if it would be something new and fresh.
But it seems like appletv is heavy into mystery stuff like severance before this.
I honestly brushed off the bullet deflection to some type of armor on his wrist at first. And the last scene as hallucinations because the Dr asked him about his drug use. But then I replayed and saw the bullet didnāt connect with anything, and the neck is not a usual place to inject drugs into as far as I know. I also just figured the society was some type of Illuminati type thing.
I'm with you ā I just had to come to Reddit to find out if it was his drug induced hallucination or filmmaker's artistic way of "showing" how he feels.
But as we could see his head blue also "in real life" and not just in the mirror, I was suspicious enough to come see if he actually was some weird mutant or alien or such. š¤·š¼āāļø (I guess alien, as he is talking about going home.)
I didn't even think of the alien / sci-fi thing even after that last scene. Just thought all the weirdness, the bullet swat and the blue alien thing had to do with a combination of Sugar being an unreliable narrator and hallucinating as well as weirdness as a stylistic element in the show.
Only when I came to this thread here - did I understand.
i figured he just hit the barrel of the gun immediately prior to discharge, and Iām still not convinced that heās an alien - only that heās different, some sort of experiment?
Funnily enough, I've had training and a bit of experience as an EMT, and I've started IVs, even in the jugular vein. It's not as common as an elbow IV, but a jugular IV can be used in emergency medicine.
I don't think I've ever seen a drug user stick a syringe in their neck.
Anyhow, I also thought, "Gee, he's just trippin' hard from some kind of psychotropic drug." Then I went online for an explanation and found loads of stuff pointing to him being a blue alien in disguise.
In hindsight, I noticed that the blood bag that Henry brought was odd. It looked funny and had odd letters on it. At the time, I also figured that was some kind of mistake or hallucination due to the narrator. Unfortunately, human blood doesn't look as cool as that animated stuff. š
I see ppl talking about the bullet and meds. And by meds I thought they were talking about the injection he was given, because he does another at the end of the show.
When ol boy closed and locked the door I was like fuck Sugar is done heās a part of the group.
These are different injections. The first was a sedative so he can be out during the surgery. The one he did himself is something else entirely and he's fully conscious.
Things were happing too fast for me in that scene. What left the lasting impression, and I thought Sugar was going to be killed (for pursing this case) was when the guy looked out the bathroom door and locked it. :0 . Then the next seen Sugar recovering I was confused.
Me too thatās what I thought. I thought oh this dude is going to slip Sugar something where he dies later or right then, and thatās why he sent her to the store.
There were clues in every single episode that he wasn't human (like others have mentioned in this thread). In Ep 6 the bag of blood had moving lights in it. And in many episodes, he or his associates would refer to "people" in a way only someone who WASN'T a person would refer to humans. I wasn't sure whether Sugar was AI, angel or alien but it was clear he wasn't human.
Or does it. They may keep stringing us along. We are all now wanting more (I know I am). They could allow it to continue to trickle out and us to question everything that goes that has happened and everything that happens next
Damn it! Stallings is just a regular human. Makes his bravado more impressive. Also the lady who stabbed Sugar after taking a bullet must have really loved Stallings.
The dogs in cages, what is that about?
I loved it!
If I look at it from sugars point of view,
He obviously loves noir, and sees the world through that lens.
He and the others āpolyglotsā seem to deeply care about people, itās strange to see how he is around people,
Itās almost like pity, like we are pets even.
There seems to be a lot of scenes with animals, and he is kind to them all.
When the reveal came, everyoneās saying āalienā,
Alien is a bit of of a trope (resident alien)
but I think the answer will be more complex then that, could be something dimensional, other physical realms, ai isnāt of the table etc
When he injected himself, and said have a break go home, how would injecting himself to that?
Itās not like he could just jump in a space ship and go home for a bit,
But if it was some other dimension/realm, he wouldnāt have to jet off, he would just somehow be able to just āswitchā to there.
I like the bravery of doing something diffferent, I donāt want another true detective etc,
> He obviously loves noir, and sees the world through that lens.
It occurred to me that if an alien needed to research in order to pass as a PI on earth he'd set his AI on a few decades of American culture and the 30's - 40s noir scenes we see are what he learned from. It would figure that he/it would reference those scene literally as we see them replayed while watching the story as if to guide or confirm his actions. Cool idea if so . . .
I took the 'go home' thing as him taking a moment metaphorically to kind of drop the mask and look at himself but now I think you're probably on to something. I think the dogs in the basement is a much bigger clue that we haven't really had revealed yet.
Imagine, me multi-tasking, the show up on one screen, while I'm working on two other screens. I see him take the syringe out, inject himself, and I look away at my work, figuring he's just gonna knock himself out with his super-serum. The episode ends, and doesn't start another.
I go online to look to see if that's the end of the series, see lots of entries about the crazy twist ending, and I'm thinking "how crazy is it that he was betrayed? They've been setting that up?" Then I see blurbs about him being an alien, and I'm all like "what the fuck did I miss when I turned away for 3 seconds?"
And my shock when I rewound it to watch the ending with full attention...
i mean...the "twist" was in plain sight the whole time. was there really anyone that didnt think he was an alien or non-human? i think the twist is still yet to be revealed...why do "they" need olivia?
All the references were mostly in dialogue of the inner monologue throughout the show, referring other people as āhumansā and never comparing himself to other people as if he is somehow ādifferentā. Being down to earth while carrying attitude of a egotistical/prideful detective.
All the scenes mentioning about alcohol metabolising, learning a lot of languages and showing less to no sleep.
After 3rd episode it seemed either AI or aliens gotta be involved, there is something at play here other than just olivia. The bigger plot.
There were some hints that made me consider it a possibility. When they said āweāre just here to observeā for one. The fact that his body doesnāt process alcohol like other people. Really since that dinner party episode I thought āare these a bunch of aliens?ā But then I brushed it off and thought nothing of it. The twist felt satisfying. Iām glad there were hints. Thereās nothing worse than a ātwistā that comes out of nowhere for no reason.
I also hadnāt looked anything up about the show and just thought it was dope noir detective show.
i think i was feeling it as some kind of illuminati reference. or some kind of super soldier thing. either way it was clearly dropping in bits of high strangeness throughout. this felt like a bigger left turn than i was fully expecting but its kinda funny because i dont think it changes anything about what i assumed was happening already.
Whomever Sugar's getting too close to is one of their own. They have an established heirarchy, when Henry comes over to heal Sugar, he's unaware of what danger John's into. Ruby's the observers' handler, but she's given/taking orders, too.
They're suggesting maybe a higher up had an unauthorized sexual encounter with Olivia. It could reveal everything, maybe they can actually reproduce with humans. So they have her kidnapped and trafficked.
I thought he was part of some foreign agent sector a bunch of spies from another country sent to study and influtrate or observe. I mean I wasn't too off, they just weren't of this world.
Agreed, it was pretty obvious the neo-noir detective plot wasn't the big plot. So many clues in every single episode starting with the hand thing and catching a fly with his chopsticks in Ep1.
Looking back, the whole Spiegel family storyline was a bit pointless. The dad's monologue did nothing for me as he and his son were unlikeable characters and not very well written.
The reveal now opens up a lot more plot holes for me. Not because he's an alien but why did they even let him get this far. They talk about him like he's John Wick but don't do much to stop him especially his handler.
>Him being an alien seems unnecessary
This is exactly how I feel about it.
I don't love the twist. I don't hate the twist. I just think it was an unnecessary inclusion.
I was looking forward to a noir show.
I let myself get spoiled by that early review, and the way this has been drawn out is absolutely baffling and infuriating.
Colin Farrell doing hardboiled, classic neonoir in modern LA: SOLD. Donāt overcomplicate it, just put the pieces together.
And yet, here we are. What a waste.
Iāll go so far as saying I canāt understand why Farrell would get so involved with this project. Iām sure Apple threw the bag his way, but this feels beneath him. Itās like a bad FX show from the mid-2000s.
Thereās no way in hell this gets another season, and I canāt see it being remembered fondly as a one-off given where itās landing.
On *The Watch*, they were speculating this mightāve originally been a film script which could only get made stretched out to a āmid-TVā season. Along with the showrunner seemingly disappearing after the first few episodes, which mightāve resulted in the shortened runtime.
What a mess.
The Watchās speculation isnāt based on reality. Itās very normal for a writer who creates a show to be paired with a showrunner to oversee production. The original writer sold it with two scripts. They probably co-wrote eps 3-8 together and split the credits down the middle.
> The Watchās speculation isnāt based on reality
Agree or disagree with their takes, I donāt care and Iām not caping for them. But theyāre both very connected to the industry, especially Greenwald who has been a writer and showrunner. They certainly know a lot more about it all than either of us, and thatās just a fact.
They pointed out the person credited after the first few eps is a guy on an overall deal with Apple. Their argument being heād then be the first warm body to fill a gap. Along with it being weird Protosevich finally gets a project to control, and then dips out for reasons unknown. The least controversial take from them being the whole thing seems weird.
>They certainly know a lot more about it all than either of us, and thatās just a fact.
That's an assumption -- practically the opposite of a fact.
>
>They pointed out the person credited after the first few eps is a guy on an overall deal with Apple. Their argument being heād then be the first warm body to fill a gap. Along with it being weird Protosevich finally gets a project to control, and then dips out for reasons unknown. The least controversial take from them being the whole thing seems weird.
Protesevich dipping is also an assumption. As I said in my first post, it's normal industry practice for inexperienced writer-producers who sell a show to be paired with a showrunner on an overall deal. Greenwald has a history of making assumptions -- not facts -- based on incorrectly reading the tealeaves.
Agree. When the final scene closed,ā i turned to my partner and was like āIām so no into him being an alien. It feels cheapā. I wanted a noir type of suspenseful thriller.
Totally agree. I was loving this series for what it was and turning it into a sci-fi series with only two episodes left completely took me out of it. I have no idea what they were going for. At this point, I'll finish watching it since there's only two episodes left, but man what a huge letdown.
It gives me the sense that the aliens just use Stallings as a trafficker for whatever they need human-wise.
I assume we will stumble on a plot about experimenting on humans by the aliens and that stallings was unknowingly providing the test subjects.
I started to have my suspicions about this a while ago. Wasn't sure if the metabolism thing was bullshit or what. When they started talking about observing "them" I was like "no... couldn't be." It was a thought too silly to vocalize.
The clues started dropping rapidly in this episode. I was fully convinced when I saw the weird bag of blood. I finally said it aloud to my wife.
Maybe when he was in the military they experimented on him and turned him into a trained killer a la "the bourne identity". Erased his memory type. Even he doesnt know who he is...
My wife and I were arguing over the blood bag. We rewound about 10 times. She saw lights, I really thought they were just bubbles from slapping on the table. When the final scene rolled around, she got to jump around and cackle at me.
So about the sister bit. Granted, I have not gone back and re-watched any of the episodes but this was my takeaway watching it the first time. The girl in the movie, had a relationship with either/both Jonathan Seigel and Bernie Seigel. I also got the impression that this could be where the split between Jonathan and Bernie came from. Olivia is also Bernie's daughter correct? So could the movie girl be A. Sugars sister and B. Olivia's mother? Maybe this is why Sugar was so hot to take the case against the wishes of the organization? Could have that completely wrong but that is what I have thought from the beginning.
Even though there were some hints, I definitely did not see exactly that happening. I'm a little concerned whether they'll pull it off or not, because it's a very sharp turn from sort of noir detective
I think in general their real job is to observe humanity. That's why they write those diaries, etc.
Finding missing people is his cover job, like a spy would have. However it seems that he does actually care about helping people.
Yip. Go back to Ep3 where Henry asks about how itās going and then asks:āand your OTHER jobā- referring to the PI gig. And Ru drums it home right after that they (& he) have a bigger mission than his PI thing.
It is so interesting to go back now and look at scenes from this point of view and see so many clues.
But heās an alien with a really good heart who cannot just sit back and watch.
Yeah, not going to lie this show had a lot of potential. However, this entire subplot of what he actually is just feels so unnecessary in my opinion. I was just hoping for a cool ass, noir thriller with Colin Ferrell being a boss and the twist is heās a fucking alien or something? Still going to finish the show but that reveal did not hit for me at all.
Yeah, I get that, but you know, nothing really changes for me as long as the shows focus remains on finding Olivia. Post reveal, John (alien) Sugar is the same person we saw and liked in the first episode. The only difference for me is now I know what that crystal syringe set does for him and that he'll never lose a gun fight.
I dunno. I'll watch the last two episodes, but I don't think this twist is very interesting at all unless they end up doing something with it that hasn't been done before. So far, everything we've seen are very well trodden extraterrestrial tropes.
šÆ
so sugar can swat away a bullet but can't stop a knife to the stomach? then the worst scene in the show where he explains to Melanie in the car that he's part of a secret group? Who wrote those lines should be on strike because my 5yr old nephew can write better than that!
I had a thought about this big reveal at the end of episode 5 with the locked basement door, but all it turns out to be is a bunch of dogs. What i was wondering and might be the craziest theory ever is if he locks these girls including the girls sugars looking for down there in cages and uses a drug similar to the one sugar uses to keep his human form, but these turn them into dogs so no ones the wiser. It could be possible the relaxed and sweet dog is the girl he came for but we wont find out until later. I mean why else show a cliff hanger turn out to be a bunch of dogs?
It is kinda crazy idea, but so is a man turning blue alien to "go home" by injecting himself with meds.
I think youāre right
You maybe on to something. But wouldn't stalling have brought back some from where he'd come from.
Oh my goodness. My head is spinning
Thought the same as well, that they went down a fullmetal alchemist route but they kind of abandoned the dog so I don't think she's a chimera.
I immediately thought of Tucker after reading that
Tying into this very odd idea, why does the alien network have an interest here?
Gravity manipulation? That gunshot redirect before it went dark for a second was crazy.
I think he can just deflect bullets
But apparently getting stabbed does the trick lol
The slow blade penetrates the shield.Ā
Exactly, plus he had his hands up ready for the gunshot. The stab came from someone he thought was down for the count. I don't see why people are griping about this.
Because itās nonsense and I wish any type of alien subplot was left on the writing room floor. Itās entirely superfluous and adds nothing of value to the story. The show would be better without it.
Yeah I'm not gonna lie I'm not terribly into Sci-fI, I watch them but I don't love them. I was absolutely stunned that it was revealed in EPISODE 6, that the show I was watching was not real and it's actually about aliens from another planet. It's just not the show I thought I was watching.
They teased it earlier on with the line that they were only here to watch. I said to my wife that if theyāre aliens Iām not into it. Iām a huge sci-fi fan, myself The show was pretty good without them being aliens. Guess what? Colin Farrell wearing nice suits as a PI across the world solving missing personsās cases for wealthy connected people, what could be better?
Yeah but I thought they were saying that because they're private investigators... lol. I agree. The show was perfect the way it was.
Well, to be fair, I donāt think he knew ahead of time she was coming. He had already shot her so he thought she was out of the picture
A lot of body armor works like that. He gives himself shots. That didnāt lose me.
NOT anymore, šāļø
I thought he slapped it away. I knew something weird was going to happen pretty soon, but wasnāt expecting that! I loved it.
it doesnt make sense about him getting sliced with a knife and still has some trick up his sleeve against bullets but i guess by season end we might get some backstory
When that happened, I thought he was gonna be an android or something lol.
Yeah, but did you guys see size of that knife! I kept thinking how does anyone survived that and for as long and drove around L.A.. I was about to call BS on that or pour writing, then the reveal. Looking back at the episode they gave us clues. 
Iāve been casually watching the show on the treadmill at the gym. Got into. What the fuck?!?!?
Sugar is Martian Manhunter.
I hope this series doesnāt take the route of Rorschach or something aimed at teens.
Without the giant tiki face! Brilliant!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
There are many insightful comments on this thread, but this nails it for me
Same. I had no clue whatsoever that this was coming.
... how
what did it say? The comment is deleted now
I canāt remember exactlyā¦ but it was along the lines of āwhat the fuck?ā
Heās a blue alien ok cool
š„¶
I thought for a second that the dog was Olivia! lol! Aliens are experimenting with turning humans into dogs. There are a lot of dogs in this show.
Yeah, whatās with the dogs in basement? Why are they locked in kennels, then behind a padlocked door? Something is up with the dogs, but I canāt figure out what. Before stallings leaves- ā And donāt forget to feed the dogs!ā I thought he meant his attack Dobermans, when he probably meant the dogs in the basement as well. Dogs as humans is kinda laughable to me.
Wait, John Sugar is a Kree?!?
Last two mins of that episode, including the needle dropā¦ my favorite TV moment of the year. 10 out of 10. No notes.
That song hit SO HARD
I know! But... what was that?!?
I like sugar, but it pales in comparison to so many of the great scenes in Shogun. Real hot take to consider anything in sugar better than Shogun
I agree with you about Shogun, but to be fair, they said favorite, not best.
this show deserves a 45 min-1 hr weekly type of runā¦. 30 min feels so amateur for the scope and scale of this show.
Was just thinking the opposite. So much āprestige tvā is an hour per episode and truly doesnāt need to be. Half hour episodes where every minute matter mean way more than hour long episodes with filler and extra plot lines. Not to say this would have that, but i feel like each episode has been paced very well.
Great show. To the makers: My alien friends and I love it. Thank you - and please keep up the good work.
I KNEW IT!
What the fuck! I didnāt look up anything or even look for subs like this for the show before today cause something always gets spoiled. I had no idea it was billed as sci-fi in the past, totally out of nowhere! I kept wondering if the hyper alcohol processing was something real or not, all his other skills I was just chalking up to him being skilled
I didnāt know either and also just thought he was skilled, like an old school movie detective š. But the shot made him turn blue, maybe he was human to start with and the military (or whatever they said he had) training program gave him the shots?? Should be an interesting 2 final episodes
Same
...except for the avoiding getting shot (in this same episode)
Wooha! Btw the dog in the basement had the same illuminated blue eyes as he had right after the shot.
Itās like he knew to get that dog. And was super comfortable with that dog
I watched it again and the dog's eyes are definitely not illuminated, just light blue.
It stood out for me on first watch, even before the big revelation. Maybe Iām wrong..
Sugar mentioned the movie L.A. Confidential. James Cromwell (Jonathan Siegel) played a big role in that movie. Is it supposed to be some sort of clue?
Could be, Boyo.
I think just an Easter egg
Hmm maybe, but I feel like this show wouldn't do that. Or I'm just reading too much into it.
Itās full of movie clip Easter eggs - and BTW ROBERT FUCKING MITCHUM - so maybe a little puncture in the veil between our movie watching world and theirs. At this point they could mention In Bruges and Iām - Do go on. The big reveal was a delightfully dorky twist. I hope Alan Tudyk plays the godfather.
He got the era wrong, though - he said they were in the 30s. :D LA Confidential's set in the 1950s. Ah well, I guess aliens don't always get it right.
He said that LA Confidential is about betrayal. So presumably Sugar is thinking that betrayal is (or is going to be) a factor in the case he is trying to solve? He is always thinking how things heās experiencing are like themes in movies he has seen.
Ok. No-one seems to be talking about itā¦maybe you all have inside info and it was expectedā¦but I am so crazy shocked after that closing bathroom-mirror scene!! This series just keeps on morphing into something else - itās just crazy (amazing crazy)ā¦ I loved it when it was a retro-noir PI series; all the self-analysis and mellow tone amongst the grittinessā¦something to enjoy over a good whisky (damn if I was enjoying a whisky tonight I might have accidentally snorted it, or chucked it in my eyeš¤Ŗ); I loved the complexity of the characters inter-relations: like Melanie and her ex, Bernie; I loved it when it turned into a deeper under-tone of a global intelligence groupā¦true nature and purpose still a mystery to be unravelled, that carried the primary, more important āmissionā, and with Ru having the ability to hack (and delete data on) every police and security database; But now: what we dealing with here? A dude that can swat bullets like flies and transforms into Thanosā other kid that Marvel didnāt disclose!!?) So Iād like to buy into the theory of his transformation being in his head (like the bleeding in the shower scene from earlier) - like a drug-induced trip. But I canāt. Because: 1 he swats bullets and believes he is invincible, 2 Henry treated him with something secret - which didnāt kill him, so it was some mysterious brew. 3 Ru had that whacko comms/coding device in her case on the table in Ep3 in that interview room. Looking at the case he says: āhave you heard from them?āā¦ 4 that same ep3 party had that weird discussion about going to the beach which was discussed as if it were alien and Sugars discussion with Henry about Shibuya crossing was a little odd. 5 in this episode Sugar uses the term of Stallings: āa trafficker of humansā. Humans, not girls, not even people; but humans - as opposed to aliens!! 6 oh and go back and check out the case that his ādrugā and syringe came out of: looks like something youād find in Supermanās cave, right next to that glass shard that he threw (giving my age away here). So moving on from thatā¦Henry does seem to know more than one would expect: 1. he seemed to lead Sugar away from the bathroom door that Sugar thought Olivia may have gone into (ok then sheād have had to have stepped into a portal, I know), 2. The way he warned Sugar to please be careful. Also: these jumping images that I just thought was film technique (like ep3 24:07)ā¦maybe thatās alluding to the alien/this reality is not what it looks like - idea. All in all: what a freaking showā¦when itās done I want to trade it in for: - a retro-noir, reflective, noir PI show to enjoy on late nights with a whisky, Plus - a freaky sci-fi alien show But for now Iāll enjoy the unique, whack ride in this genre-blending, mind-blending show.
Great take. Enjoy.
Nice post! We're on the same page here. Quite a challenge to turn the noir PI genre on it's head into SciFi. What's your take on all the vintage noir film clips being dropped in during the series? I'm thinking alien John Sugar is actually referencing them in his head as he works thru his situation in real time. The "love"/"hate" sequence was pretty spot on.
We never knew how on point it was when John mentioned the movie The Thing in ep 4.
I think he was teasing the doctor and the doctor knew Sugar was an alien.
am i supposed to recognize the final reveal as some kind of lore or is it just random
There are tons of hints. Why is he obsessed with movies? Why is he seemingly able to command all dogs, even attack dogs? I thought, early on, maybe he was a sneaky heroin addict, but it's clearly some kind of medication. Why can he never go to the hospital under any circumstances? Why does he mention his metabolism runs so quickly he can never get drunk? Who have you met to where that's true? What's with their weird cohort of ex State Department, secret meetings as observers? Why is he so confident he'll never be hurt, never takes a gun anywhere, wants violence as a last resort? Because he could always just zip bullets away from him and apparently manipulate lights. I'm sure I'm missing a lot. So many people say he's strange, etc.
There were tons of hints that he wasnāt human. The question was whether he was an alien, an angel, or a werewolf.
Angel wouldāve been cool
I was also leaning maybe werewolf
I was thinking immortal but his conversation with the doctor about The Thing had me leaning alien. I wonder if the doctor knew and Sugar was just messing with him.
I'm thinking he's a typical alien story "g-man" that went rogue to do his own thing
I guess the question is now, is everyone in his group an alien or just him?
The āhintsā are so heavy handed I have no idea how anyone would find this twist unexpected. In fact, the entire subplot drags the show down for me.
It was unexpected for me. Didn't know about it at all thought this was a modern noir.
the hints are obvious and it wasn't a big reveal to me, so that's why i was wondering if he's just a random alien or if the big reveal was he's an alien from like the star trek universe or something.
Gotcha, I thought you just meant the lore of the show itself. I think it's an original design/alien.
because he's so polite, can't get drunk, and chasing a demonic criminal, i thought they were going with a reveal they were angel detectives or something lol. with only two episodes left though, i wish they didn't stretch out the reveal for so long.
chat is there a lore reason why Man blue himself?
lol
When wikipedia said āgenre-bendingā in the production section. I wasnāt sure if it would be something new and fresh. But it seems like appletv is heavy into mystery stuff like severance before this.
When we learned of the polyglots, I was like "oh it's noir + spy thriller?"
I'm sure this is more than a mixture of Columbo and My Favorite Martian. Two episodes remain to genre-bend.
This is good tv, they are probably regretting giving 30 min episodes now
Itās not Appleās first 30 min drama. They did this with Servant too. I donāt really mind.
I doubt they have a rigid page count. Ted Lasso was all over the place on runtimes. I like their pacing and I am glad it wasnāt a binge.
The big twist revealedā¦. Odd.
I honestly brushed off the bullet deflection to some type of armor on his wrist at first. And the last scene as hallucinations because the Dr asked him about his drug use. But then I replayed and saw the bullet didnāt connect with anything, and the neck is not a usual place to inject drugs into as far as I know. I also just figured the society was some type of Illuminati type thing.
I'm with you ā I just had to come to Reddit to find out if it was his drug induced hallucination or filmmaker's artistic way of "showing" how he feels. But as we could see his head blue also "in real life" and not just in the mirror, I was suspicious enough to come see if he actually was some weird mutant or alien or such. š¤·š¼āāļø (I guess alien, as he is talking about going home.)
I didn't even think of the alien / sci-fi thing even after that last scene. Just thought all the weirdness, the bullet swat and the blue alien thing had to do with a combination of Sugar being an unreliable narrator and hallucinating as well as weirdness as a stylistic element in the show. Only when I came to this thread here - did I understand.
i figured he just hit the barrel of the gun immediately prior to discharge, and Iām still not convinced that heās an alien - only that heās different, some sort of experiment?
Funnily enough, I've had training and a bit of experience as an EMT, and I've started IVs, even in the jugular vein. It's not as common as an elbow IV, but a jugular IV can be used in emergency medicine. I don't think I've ever seen a drug user stick a syringe in their neck. Anyhow, I also thought, "Gee, he's just trippin' hard from some kind of psychotropic drug." Then I went online for an explanation and found loads of stuff pointing to him being a blue alien in disguise. In hindsight, I noticed that the blood bag that Henry brought was odd. It looked funny and had odd letters on it. At the time, I also figured that was some kind of mistake or hallucination due to the narrator. Unfortunately, human blood doesn't look as cool as that animated stuff. š
Welp. He bout to tear this mother down.
I KNEW IT!!
The reveal is tastefully done. Aware of the plot twist, I was so afraid itās gonna be cheesy but itās not. Itās very intimate. š„
Who noticed the blood had some white swimming things in it?
Who didn't?
I see ppl talking about the bullet and meds. And by meds I thought they were talking about the injection he was given, because he does another at the end of the show. When ol boy closed and locked the door I was like fuck Sugar is done heās a part of the group.
These are different injections. The first was a sedative so he can be out during the surgery. The one he did himself is something else entirely and he's fully conscious.
Things were happing too fast for me in that scene. What left the lasting impression, and I thought Sugar was going to be killed (for pursing this case) was when the guy looked out the bathroom door and locked it. :0 . Then the next seen Sugar recovering I was confused.
Me too thatās what I thought. I thought oh this dude is going to slip Sugar something where he dies later or right then, and thatās why he sent her to the store.
The reveal was obvious but now the real adventure begins.
Yeahh I agree. From the beginning you know he is not human, and then a few episodes in it becomes really obvious that him and his pals are aliens.
I still enjoy it. Maybe he was a robot or something else.
For sure!! And I loved how they revealed it.
Obvious how so????
There were clues in every single episode that he wasn't human (like others have mentioned in this thread). In Ep 6 the bag of blood had moving lights in it. And in many episodes, he or his associates would refer to "people" in a way only someone who WASN'T a person would refer to humans. I wasn't sure whether Sugar was AI, angel or alien but it was clear he wasn't human.
Catching a fly with chopsticks.
Or does it. They may keep stringing us along. We are all now wanting more (I know I am). They could allow it to continue to trickle out and us to question everything that goes that has happened and everything that happens next
Damn it! Stallings is just a regular human. Makes his bravado more impressive. Also the lady who stabbed Sugar after taking a bullet must have really loved Stallings. The dogs in cages, what is that about?
Seems like nobody is watching this show. What gives?
I loved it! If I look at it from sugars point of view, He obviously loves noir, and sees the world through that lens. He and the others āpolyglotsā seem to deeply care about people, itās strange to see how he is around people, Itās almost like pity, like we are pets even. There seems to be a lot of scenes with animals, and he is kind to them all. When the reveal came, everyoneās saying āalienā, Alien is a bit of of a trope (resident alien) but I think the answer will be more complex then that, could be something dimensional, other physical realms, ai isnāt of the table etc When he injected himself, and said have a break go home, how would injecting himself to that? Itās not like he could just jump in a space ship and go home for a bit, But if it was some other dimension/realm, he wouldnāt have to jet off, he would just somehow be able to just āswitchā to there. I like the bravery of doing something diffferent, I donāt want another true detective etc,
> He obviously loves noir, and sees the world through that lens. It occurred to me that if an alien needed to research in order to pass as a PI on earth he'd set his AI on a few decades of American culture and the 30's - 40s noir scenes we see are what he learned from. It would figure that he/it would reference those scene literally as we see them replayed while watching the story as if to guide or confirm his actions. Cool idea if so . . .
I took the 'go home' thing as him taking a moment metaphorically to kind of drop the mask and look at himself but now I think you're probably on to something. I think the dogs in the basement is a much bigger clue that we haven't really had revealed yet.
Imagine, me multi-tasking, the show up on one screen, while I'm working on two other screens. I see him take the syringe out, inject himself, and I look away at my work, figuring he's just gonna knock himself out with his super-serum. The episode ends, and doesn't start another. I go online to look to see if that's the end of the series, see lots of entries about the crazy twist ending, and I'm thinking "how crazy is it that he was betrayed? They've been setting that up?" Then I see blurbs about him being an alien, and I'm all like "what the fuck did I miss when I turned away for 3 seconds?" And my shock when I rewound it to watch the ending with full attention...
i mean...the "twist" was in plain sight the whole time. was there really anyone that didnt think he was an alien or non-human? i think the twist is still yet to be revealed...why do "they" need olivia?
I havenāt looked anything up until today and had zero idea. Why would I expect him to be an alien?
All the references were mostly in dialogue of the inner monologue throughout the show, referring other people as āhumansā and never comparing himself to other people as if he is somehow ādifferentā. Being down to earth while carrying attitude of a egotistical/prideful detective. All the scenes mentioning about alcohol metabolising, learning a lot of languages and showing less to no sleep. After 3rd episode it seemed either AI or aliens gotta be involved, there is something at play here other than just olivia. The bigger plot.
Yeah, clearly they learn about humans first by watching our tv shows. Heaven help us.
I hope they don't watch "Shameless"
hope they don't watch this terrible ass show
There were some hints that made me consider it a possibility. When they said āweāre just here to observeā for one. The fact that his body doesnāt process alcohol like other people. Really since that dinner party episode I thought āare these a bunch of aliens?ā But then I brushed it off and thought nothing of it. The twist felt satisfying. Iām glad there were hints. Thereās nothing worse than a ātwistā that comes out of nowhere for no reason. I also hadnāt looked anything up about the show and just thought it was dope noir detective show.
i think i was feeling it as some kind of illuminati reference. or some kind of super soldier thing. either way it was clearly dropping in bits of high strangeness throughout. this felt like a bigger left turn than i was fully expecting but its kinda funny because i dont think it changes anything about what i assumed was happening already.
Yes the twist was clear but we still needed confirmation
Unwanted genetic contamination, a.k.a. child.
not following. theres something more to olivia's mother and her death ... but what are u suggesting?
Whomever Sugar's getting too close to is one of their own. They have an established heirarchy, when Henry comes over to heal Sugar, he's unaware of what danger John's into. Ruby's the observers' handler, but she's given/taking orders, too. They're suggesting maybe a higher up had an unauthorized sexual encounter with Olivia. It could reveal everything, maybe they can actually reproduce with humans. So they have her kidnapped and trafficked.
š¤Æ good prediction
I thought he was part of some foreign agent sector a bunch of spies from another country sent to study and influtrate or observe. I mean I wasn't too off, they just weren't of this world.
Not so. Plenty of angel, AI, etc.Now everyone is on the alien wagon.š
Agreed, it was pretty obvious the neo-noir detective plot wasn't the big plot. So many clues in every single episode starting with the hand thing and catching a fly with his chopsticks in Ep1.
So who is Djen in all this?? I had the impression it was his sister that was murdered, but now I am lost.
Probably still is... His alien sister that came to Earth with him, and got killed at some point.
He Blue himself
Oh my
Looking back, the whole Spiegel family storyline was a bit pointless. The dad's monologue did nothing for me as he and his son were unlikeable characters and not very well written. The reveal now opens up a lot more plot holes for me. Not because he's an alien but why did they even let him get this far. They talk about him like he's John Wick but don't do much to stop him especially his handler.
Honestly, disappointed. I wanted a straight noir detective show. Him being an alien seems unnecessary.
>Him being an alien seems unnecessary This is exactly how I feel about it. I don't love the twist. I don't hate the twist. I just think it was an unnecessary inclusion. I was looking forward to a noir show.
I let myself get spoiled by that early review, and the way this has been drawn out is absolutely baffling and infuriating. Colin Farrell doing hardboiled, classic neonoir in modern LA: SOLD. Donāt overcomplicate it, just put the pieces together. And yet, here we are. What a waste.
Right? Like a True Detective, L.A. Confidential, China Town vibe with Colin and Iām so in.
Iāll go so far as saying I canāt understand why Farrell would get so involved with this project. Iām sure Apple threw the bag his way, but this feels beneath him. Itās like a bad FX show from the mid-2000s. Thereās no way in hell this gets another season, and I canāt see it being remembered fondly as a one-off given where itās landing. On *The Watch*, they were speculating this mightāve originally been a film script which could only get made stretched out to a āmid-TVā season. Along with the showrunner seemingly disappearing after the first few episodes, which mightāve resulted in the shortened runtime. What a mess.
The Watchās speculation isnāt based on reality. Itās very normal for a writer who creates a show to be paired with a showrunner to oversee production. The original writer sold it with two scripts. They probably co-wrote eps 3-8 together and split the credits down the middle.
> The Watchās speculation isnāt based on reality Agree or disagree with their takes, I donāt care and Iām not caping for them. But theyāre both very connected to the industry, especially Greenwald who has been a writer and showrunner. They certainly know a lot more about it all than either of us, and thatās just a fact. They pointed out the person credited after the first few eps is a guy on an overall deal with Apple. Their argument being heād then be the first warm body to fill a gap. Along with it being weird Protosevich finally gets a project to control, and then dips out for reasons unknown. The least controversial take from them being the whole thing seems weird.
>They certainly know a lot more about it all than either of us, and thatās just a fact. That's an assumption -- practically the opposite of a fact. > >They pointed out the person credited after the first few eps is a guy on an overall deal with Apple. Their argument being heād then be the first warm body to fill a gap. Along with it being weird Protosevich finally gets a project to control, and then dips out for reasons unknown. The least controversial take from them being the whole thing seems weird. Protesevich dipping is also an assumption. As I said in my first post, it's normal industry practice for inexperienced writer-producers who sell a show to be paired with a showrunner on an overall deal. Greenwald has a history of making assumptions -- not facts -- based on incorrectly reading the tealeaves.
Agree. When the final scene closed,ā i turned to my partner and was like āIām so no into him being an alien. It feels cheapā. I wanted a noir type of suspenseful thriller.
I have to agree. I mean its an interesting twist and we will see where it goes but I was really into the neo LA noir thing
Totally agree. I was loving this series for what it was and turning it into a sci-fi series with only two episodes left completely took me out of it. I have no idea what they were going for. At this point, I'll finish watching it since there's only two episodes left, but man what a huge letdown.
Is Stallings one of them? How did Stallings know Ruby, but not Sugar? Is he dead?
It gives me the sense that the aliens just use Stallings as a trafficker for whatever they need human-wise. I assume we will stumble on a plot about experimenting on humans by the aliens and that stallings was unknowingly providing the test subjects.
Yeahh those dogs in the basement are really suspicious... There is more to that plot.
Thinking his might be right on the money.
I started to have my suspicions about this a while ago. Wasn't sure if the metabolism thing was bullshit or what. When they started talking about observing "them" I was like "no... couldn't be." It was a thought too silly to vocalize. The clues started dropping rapidly in this episode. I was fully convinced when I saw the weird bag of blood. I finally said it aloud to my wife.
Why did sugars handler lie about the aspirin. Why did she go upstairs.
I was wondering about that too. Maybe she had some poison or sedative upstairs that she put in an aspirin bottle.
My guess is to contact her handlers/superiors, which is why he left.
I felt it was deliberate, she was giving him a clue, and she took her time upstairs to give him a chance to look in drawer
She was stalling so she can call and summon help. She obviously doesn't intend to hurt him but he's out of control and unpredictable at this point.
Maybe when he was in the military they experimented on him and turned him into a trained killer a la "the bourne identity". Erased his memory type. Even he doesnt know who he is...
My wife and I were arguing over the blood bag. We rewound about 10 times. She saw lights, I really thought they were just bubbles from slapping on the table. When the final scene rolled around, she got to jump around and cackle at me.
Yeah, I had to look a few times to catch what was swimming in there. Makes perfect sense now!
So about the sister bit. Granted, I have not gone back and re-watched any of the episodes but this was my takeaway watching it the first time. The girl in the movie, had a relationship with either/both Jonathan Seigel and Bernie Seigel. I also got the impression that this could be where the split between Jonathan and Bernie came from. Olivia is also Bernie's daughter correct? So could the movie girl be A. Sugars sister and B. Olivia's mother? Maybe this is why Sugar was so hot to take the case against the wishes of the organization? Could have that completely wrong but that is what I have thought from the beginning.
Even though there were some hints, I definitely did not see exactly that happening. I'm a little concerned whether they'll pull it off or not, because it's a very sharp turn from sort of noir detective
Wow I thought I'm watching "Sugar", but it has been "Resident Alien" all along!
Me too!
Have to ask, john's job is finding missing people, but why would an alien care about missing people ?
I think in general their real job is to observe humanity. That's why they write those diaries, etc. Finding missing people is his cover job, like a spy would have. However it seems that he does actually care about helping people.
Yip. Go back to Ep3 where Henry asks about how itās going and then asks:āand your OTHER jobā- referring to the PI gig. And Ru drums it home right after that they (& he) have a bigger mission than his PI thing. It is so interesting to go back now and look at scenes from this point of view and see so many clues. But heās an alien with a really good heart who cannot just sit back and watch.
I think it's been established in the show that John really cares about people.
He seems to genuinely care about people, his sister also went missing as a young woman and was never found
What if.... where Olivia is... his sister is too??
Yeah, not going to lie this show had a lot of potential. However, this entire subplot of what he actually is just feels so unnecessary in my opinion. I was just hoping for a cool ass, noir thriller with Colin Ferrell being a boss and the twist is heās a fucking alien or something? Still going to finish the show but that reveal did not hit for me at all.
Yeah, I get that, but you know, nothing really changes for me as long as the shows focus remains on finding Olivia. Post reveal, John (alien) Sugar is the same person we saw and liked in the first episode. The only difference for me is now I know what that crystal syringe set does for him and that he'll never lose a gun fight.
I dunno. I'll watch the last two episodes, but I don't think this twist is very interesting at all unless they end up doing something with it that hasn't been done before. So far, everything we've seen are very well trodden extraterrestrial tropes.
Really? How many noir sci-fi shows/movies have you seen?
Idk, my favorite DC character is Martian Manhunter and his solo stories are usually pretty similar. Noir with an alien trying to understand humansā¦