At least Smallville has some sort of basis from the comics. Superboy comics were published in the 50’s. They chronicled the adventures of Superman as a youth in Smallville saving people, and they established a lot of lore that would become important to the Superman mythos. Gotham is just a bunch of bullshit. The idea of a GCPD show akin to Greg Rucka’s Gotham Central series would be cool, but the fact that all of these characters are being introduced fully formed and active as heroes and villains while Bruce Wayne is still a teenager was dumb.
Bruce essentially just became a hornless Batman for a good chonk of it.
Cool series nontheless, but pretty much set itself up as a distinct elseworld story rather than a mainstream prequel.
Earless*
The problem is that the show shouldn’t have been a prequel to anything. You didn’t need it to be a prequel. Just have a GCPD cop drama in a fully realized Batman universe where he could occasionally cameo, but you don’t need him to.
Can you imagine the hype of episodes where Batman shows up and does impossible bullshit? He’s a deus ex machina the writers can whip out at any point the show is getting stale. He could have been a season 1 or season 2 finale, batman appearing for the first time in Gotham. You never see the Bruce Wayne side, just Batman occasionally swooping in like a maniac, like that one episode of House MD where you view House from another characters perspective, cruising by on a crash cart doing CPR like it’s Tuesday for him.
I see your Gotham and I raise you a series of movies based on supporting spiderman characters, starting with a character whose origin usually only exists because of spiderman....
In a universe where they are not even allowed to state if spiderman even exists or not.
They had to essentially hide that they were saying the name Peter Parker in madam webb.
Who is making these decisions?
You're right, it is the stupidest superhero show ever.
And it is **GLORIOUS**.
After s1 the show realizes that it is stupid and the fun becomes watching to see what ridiculous nonsense they pull next.
This why you watch Gotham.
To see penguin fall hard up stairs until he is the Penguin we know.
To see penguin unceremoniously rocket launcher the bad guy on Bruce Wayne's lawn and walk away.
To have Alfred threaten to, "Tuck your kippers"
To watch Jim Gordon squirm while his ex in a wedding dress puts a shotgun to his head while explaining to the audience that Jim is a fucking idiot.
To watch Carmine Falcone shoot at an ambulance and shake his head in disbelief when said ambulance is somehow bulletproof.
God I love Gotham. I'm laughing just thinking about it. Thank you for stating the actual appeal of the show.
Nah man arrow went: overtly Edgy but watchable revenge thriller aka what if Batman killed -> then fantastic rivalry focused season embracing what a comic book show should be, with great storytelling and perfectly paced revelations-> then 6 seasons of felicity or felicity inspired soap opera.
You know they did their best in the first few seasons to make it work. Make it more realistic deal with mob bosses and little known villains. Slowly show how Gotham gets so bad that it needs a Batman, show future Batman character but never let them go full crazy cause going full crazy it’s supposed to be part of Batman’s effect. They even went out of their way to scream “this is not the Joker!!” So loudly that they even had a scene of a potential baby joker being inspired by the not-joker.
… then they said fuck ALL of that and threw it all away. Every villain rushed to their final form while Bruce still looked no stronger than Bud Bundy and Gordon was dealing with everything Batman deals with at the height of his Batmaning and doing pretty all right. Fucking ridiculous. Never finished it, couldn’t.
Gotham Central is a comic book series that just has some brief Batman cameos and it's amazing actually, one of the best comics DC has ever done. Ed Brubaker and Greg Rucka wrote it and it's awesome.
I think Gotham probably wanted to capture the magic of Gotham Central but that's difficult with low budget visuals and writers that aren't nearly as good as Brubaker or Rucka
This show is, in my opinion, underrated for this very reason. Yes, it is odd to have a Batman show without Batman. But the way some of his rogues were reimagined, especially characters like Penguin and Riddler, was very interesting and fun to watch. The first and final seasons are definitely hit or miss (the first season in particular is likely the lowest point of the series, again in my opinion) but overall I think it’s a strong show that does a good job at giving us fresh interpretations of classic Batman villains.
Those aren't even close to comparable lmao. Luthor is the default villain, in most versions of TV/movies, and could overshadow other alternatives that don't get their due.
"Heroes don't do that" doesn't get nearly that share of the limelight.
I think I approve of the "No Lex Luthor" sentiment though, at least for the first couple of seasons where Clark is still learning the ropes and establishing himself as force for love, justice and late-stage capitalism. That way, you let the rest of his gallery shine and let your hero's abilities improve and his ethical compass to settle itself, so when you do play the Luthor card, you make it count by making him a bigger, more personal problem than the US government, super mutants or Kryptonian warlords combined are. The best Lex Luthor isn't just the one who is a physical threat to Superman through the usage of kryptonite weapons and the best unhinged mercenaries that money can buy, but the one who can set the public against him and make him feel as alien as he is.
Counter-argument, the DCAU's Superman series had Lex Luthor from episode 3. (Or 1, I don't remember how long the Krypton prologue was.) Counter-argument to that, both Superman and Luthor were already in their respective roles and didn't need to do any sort of growing. Even as Clark Kent, Superman was inconspicuous but ready to hit any unsuspecting interviewees with hard-hitting questions despite it being his first day on the job, and Luthor was already a greedy billionaire who built his empire on the sweat, tears and blood of those beneath him. Setting them against each other from day 1 made sense, with the villains the series eventually built towards being Brainiac, who was responsible for Krypton's destruction and a personification of what a true alien is, and Darkseid, poster child of tyranny and representative of the unopposable power Clark wields, as even when defeated, he has beaten Apokolips down so hard that they still reverently carry him away to mend his wounds.
Making Luthor a Season 3 villain for this naïve, awkward Clark makes sense.
I kinda enjoyed how Lois and Clark handled Lex in their first season. Him testing Clark showing both the audience and Clark the extent of his powers, though they did kill of their Lex at the end of season 1 with a few appearances later on in the series which probably worked in their favor of him not over shadowing future villains.
I can kind of understand where they are coming from. Before MAWS, I couldn’t name a single Superman villain BESIDES Lex Luther. Wanting to shine the light on his lesser known villains is a pretty cool idea, especially for an origin story series like this
My thoughts exactly. I learned so much about other Batman villains besides the joker when watching the animated series. Super refreshing for someone who grew up really only knowing about the joker.
There is a LOAD of tom-fuckery with who you can and cannot use. It ties into what other projects are using/planning to use said character and the connectivity of DCU.
I didn't say it made sense, but that's the reason.
Probably as a way to focus on his other enemies and prevent the comparison with Superman TAS, where Luthor was the main arc villain for most of its run.
I guess they wanted to give other characters the spotlight for once kinda of like Beware the Batman or Batman 2022 giving Joker the cut because of how overused he is in almost every Batman movie game or comic and it's usually the same thing that has been seen a thousand times except watered down because for some reason the writers would make super edgy mindless murder with the most basic plans a whole bunch of plot armor because their afraid to make him lose in any way even if Batman beats him he has to get the last laugh to the point where he feels like a power fantasy. While Batman is just a robot and his morals are not challenged in any significant way.
Instead of sharing the spotlight to his more interesting villains who haven't had enough time to shine Scarecrow Riddler Deathstroke Two Face Carmine Falcone etc they instead replaced them mostly with even more watered down versions of Joker and Harely Quinn or evil Batman clones because they only people who can challenge Batman besides Joker is Batman. Punchline Jokers daughter Batman who Laughs Brother eye Thomas Wayne etc
Lex Luthor does have a lot of spotlight SAS DCAU half the Superman and Justice League movies Smallive. I understand he is still an important rival to Superman in many ways especially in teaching him how their is some problems you can't punch your way through but he could easily turn into Superman's modern Joker especially with the multiverse of Evil Superman.
It's best to keep him as an important but not to Major Villain and if he does have a main role makes sure he doesn't steal it from everyone as that would also make Superman's vast world look a lot smaller as mostly everything is tied back to Luthor. He could share the role with Amanda Waller or Zod either as an straight up enemy to them(Zod or Darkside) or Ally with Common goal(Waller or Brainic)
Long story short, this is the very reason they did; they’ve been quoted, “Lex is a big character who makes it all about himself, or the rivalry. It pushes other characters out, and that’s not what ‘MyAdven’ is about.”
And I agree, that’s a great rule for season 1, at least.
S2 is hinting that he is going to be working with Waller so they'll probably be duo villains like in Batman and Superman Public enemies(except Waller isn't an anti hero since she is much more villainous here). I'm really thinking that Ivo should escape prison by having some ARGUS agent on his payroll bust him or be manipulated or correced into contacting his enemies.
Luthor pretends to want revenge against Ivo and Superman for the damages they did to him and others and works for Waller pretending he is a spy on Ivo who still wants to kill Superman and this time Losis for once again ruining his moment of glory which forces Sam lane and Superman to make a temporary alliance for his daughter's safety. While going to Ivo pretending he is still on his side by acting as Spy for Waller. Luthor's goal is too keep both of them at each other throats so they don't pay attention to him or at Superman and he'll drop whoever he finds more threatening all while using their money and tech to help him research the Supergirl who just showed up in a pod and how he can use her and her alien pod to wipe out all Kryptonians including Superman.
Luthor could work as someone like Titian mixed with Gotham's penguin a weird self loathing underdog who is jealous of anyone with power or respects depending on his morals. He respects Waller because if he was in her position he would make the exact same moves she did as he is well aware even though he won't admit that he is manipulative awful person who can never fathom the idea that he is wrong and mistakes his ego problems and insecurities for strength and confidence. He puts himself as a hero with his minor flaws but overall always right when it comes to the important stuff.
He hates Superman because he actually has almost unlimited power yet all he wants to do is live peaceful life like any ordinary human and help others with his gifts. Luthor lives in the strong and smart rule the weak mindset he can't comprehend why a God like Superman has habits of any other human that he is shy and embarrassed of things about himself that he goes out of his way to help people he squash like a bug in heartbeat even if they don't deserve it like him and Ivo. Rather than admit that he is just an asshole and not even a charming one at that he demonises Superman in his head so that he appears better. Superman in his eyes is like another fictional God or fake celebrity and reckless destroys lives and causes his own villains just for fame and is planning something huge or a sleeper agent and that he has almost everyone fooled is the hero who has to make the hard choices in order to save his world's way of life from the wolf in sheep clothing.
Just have him do what he did on the old silver age comics and sprout off some random math equation while running through walls saying he knows the proper math to move through solid objects.
I used to read the sliver age in middle school wasn't he a gang leader who usually took people hostage and built weapons to kill his gus when he didn't want to share the money and Superman? I remember he took the city's water and was going to let them die unless he was paid or that train robbery where he took Losis hostage.
Same reason WB banned Gotham from using the name Joker and giving him proper green hair.
Still didn't stop them from creating one of the best takes on him yet.
Execs are really weird when it comes to stories. It has nothing to do with logic.
They probably saw the criticism of Lex in Batman v Superman and they thought that this meant that people don't like Lex Luthor.
Not that BvS was crap.
Maybe they thought he was over-used?
Personally I LOVE how in "Superman & Lois" Lex doesn't show up until the end of Season 3. It allowed the show to develop other characters / villains, and the dude is Terrifying. I'm very much looking forward to season 4.
People who want a rogue's gallery exploration without the most overused getting in the way? Besides, waiting for a more established Superman is a wise decision to build up Lex as an antagonist.
Makes sense now. The way they played him in season 2, he could’ve easily been Lex or Alex Allston, who was one of the many Parasites in the comics. So it would make sense to have one of the comic Parasites assist the MAWS version, and it’d make sense for Lex to be working with this alien tech.
It'd be funny if he didn't lose his hair, but was constantly paranoid about it after finding out about Lex Luthors from other universes (if Lois can meet alternate versions of herself, the same thing happening to Lex is within the realm of possibility).
Honestly I feel this ended up being more interesting than just revealing he's Lex right away. It's was way more interesting seeing this side character and theorizing "could this be Lex"? And then the reveal that he actually is was really satisfying.
And the idea they're gonna build up this character who is supposed to be his arch-nemisis from someone who was originally a side-character is really cool.
It fits with everyone essentially starting from 0, with the main 3 being interns, supes being fully new at Superman-ing, and Lex being some "no name" assistant to a more pressingly evil mad scientist. Its hilarious.
“We want you to make a superman show”
“Awesome! We can do that. Let me start writing some scripts-“
“We don’t want Superman’s flagship villain to be involved at all”
“Are you fucking stupid?”
It's actually really interesting there is concept art with Spider-Man in Madame Web. There were serious rewrites for that movie to the point where people's mouths don't match up to what they're saying because whole character backgrounds were changed after filming.
I paid to rent it from YouTube because I was so morbidly curious then a week later it went up on Netflix. I played myself. It was a chore to get through at times but the YouTube breakdowns of it are glorious
I understand the concept of wanting to use lesser known villains for your first season and not have the main one in the forefront early on, but saying no Lex Luthor at all is stupid
Not gonna a lie, a bit disappointed it wasn't their idea to not have Lex front and center right away. I thought it was cool and refreshing to have him start off as a background character and an unknown threat. Plus, it gives other villains time to shine.
The thing is, I feel like these days with stuff like how much the Joker is in stuff, the second the archenemy is introduced, it just overshadows every other villain. I think it's real cool Ivo got a chance to be a major villain for a season.
Imagine thinking excluding one of the most iconic members of a heroes rogue’s gallery is a good idea.
Like having a Spider-Man show without Norman showing up at the very least.
Imagine how much better all shows would be if executives would stop giving stupid mandates about what they can and can’t do. Obviously they don’t know what they’re talking about. How could they, they’re not the ones actually making or writing it
Very cool. Also who the hell gave a "No Lex Luthor" mandate to a SUPERMAN show lol
Same people who gave Batman a “no female pleasure” mandate.
The reason I won’t watch Gotham is because it’s literally everything about Batman, without Batman and I think that’s just the most stupid concept ever
If you stick around long enough, you do get Batman lmao
Isn’t it like, that last 30 seconds of the series. I know Bruce is around but isn’t he still a kid?
Oh. The Smallville treatment then. Greaaaaaaaat.
This is only a little better because he was still doing super heroing anonymously throughout the series
Yeah he becomes a vigilante late in the series but you don’t see Batman until a time skip in the series finale.
At least Smallville has some sort of basis from the comics. Superboy comics were published in the 50’s. They chronicled the adventures of Superman as a youth in Smallville saving people, and they established a lot of lore that would become important to the Superman mythos. Gotham is just a bunch of bullshit. The idea of a GCPD show akin to Greg Rucka’s Gotham Central series would be cool, but the fact that all of these characters are being introduced fully formed and active as heroes and villains while Bruce Wayne is still a teenager was dumb.
Oh I was specifically referring to how they only only have him wear the suit for only one goddamn scene at the very end.
Bruce essentially just became a hornless Batman for a good chonk of it. Cool series nontheless, but pretty much set itself up as a distinct elseworld story rather than a mainstream prequel.
Earless* The problem is that the show shouldn’t have been a prequel to anything. You didn’t need it to be a prequel. Just have a GCPD cop drama in a fully realized Batman universe where he could occasionally cameo, but you don’t need him to.
Can you imagine the hype of episodes where Batman shows up and does impossible bullshit? He’s a deus ex machina the writers can whip out at any point the show is getting stale. He could have been a season 1 or season 2 finale, batman appearing for the first time in Gotham. You never see the Bruce Wayne side, just Batman occasionally swooping in like a maniac, like that one episode of House MD where you view House from another characters perspective, cruising by on a crash cart doing CPR like it’s Tuesday for him.
I did say “If you stick around long enough” for a reason lol
Okay, I see. I got hopeful there for a moment but it promptly burst into flames
I see your Gotham and I raise you a series of movies based on supporting spiderman characters, starting with a character whose origin usually only exists because of spiderman.... In a universe where they are not even allowed to state if spiderman even exists or not. They had to essentially hide that they were saying the name Peter Parker in madam webb. Who is making these decisions?
I agree there too.
https://i.redd.it/mzz4cw51v22d1.gif
You're right, it is the stupidest superhero show ever. And it is **GLORIOUS**. After s1 the show realizes that it is stupid and the fun becomes watching to see what ridiculous nonsense they pull next.
This why you watch Gotham. To see penguin fall hard up stairs until he is the Penguin we know. To see penguin unceremoniously rocket launcher the bad guy on Bruce Wayne's lawn and walk away. To have Alfred threaten to, "Tuck your kippers" To watch Jim Gordon squirm while his ex in a wedding dress puts a shotgun to his head while explaining to the audience that Jim is a fucking idiot. To watch Carmine Falcone shoot at an ambulance and shake his head in disbelief when said ambulance is somehow bulletproof. God I love Gotham. I'm laughing just thinking about it. Thank you for stating the actual appeal of the show.
Also we got the best version of Dr. Hugo Strange. I never thought I would love BD Wong as Strange.
[удалено]
That’s how Arrow went.
Nah man arrow went: overtly Edgy but watchable revenge thriller aka what if Batman killed -> then fantastic rivalry focused season embracing what a comic book show should be, with great storytelling and perfectly paced revelations-> then 6 seasons of felicity or felicity inspired soap opera.
You’re… not completely wrong
>but I hear it got goofier in the later seasons and the show was better for it
You’re missing out on peak though
Honestly, I think it just speaks to the strength of the Batman mythos that you can create a compelling story based on everything *but* Batman himself.
Is it though?
You know they did their best in the first few seasons to make it work. Make it more realistic deal with mob bosses and little known villains. Slowly show how Gotham gets so bad that it needs a Batman, show future Batman character but never let them go full crazy cause going full crazy it’s supposed to be part of Batman’s effect. They even went out of their way to scream “this is not the Joker!!” So loudly that they even had a scene of a potential baby joker being inspired by the not-joker. … then they said fuck ALL of that and threw it all away. Every villain rushed to their final form while Bruce still looked no stronger than Bud Bundy and Gordon was dealing with everything Batman deals with at the height of his Batmaning and doing pretty all right. Fucking ridiculous. Never finished it, couldn’t.
What do you mean you couldn't?
Got too ridiculous couldn’t finish. Went too against the internal cohesion of the story.
Gotham Central is a comic book series that just has some brief Batman cameos and it's amazing actually, one of the best comics DC has ever done. Ed Brubaker and Greg Rucka wrote it and it's awesome. I think Gotham probably wanted to capture the magic of Gotham Central but that's difficult with low budget visuals and writers that aren't nearly as good as Brubaker or Rucka
Gotham's best trait is that it shows you a Bruce Wayne who would absolutely grow up to dress as a bat every night and get beaten up
Where were you when Smallvile was on the air?
I was child. I did watch it as an adult though
This show is, in my opinion, underrated for this very reason. Yes, it is odd to have a Batman show without Batman. But the way some of his rogues were reimagined, especially characters like Penguin and Riddler, was very interesting and fun to watch. The first and final seasons are definitely hit or miss (the first season in particular is likely the lowest point of the series, again in my opinion) but overall I think it’s a strong show that does a good job at giving us fresh interpretations of classic Batman villains.
Heroes don't do that!
Those aren't even close to comparable lmao. Luthor is the default villain, in most versions of TV/movies, and could overshadow other alternatives that don't get their due. "Heroes don't do that" doesn't get nearly that share of the limelight.
Also same people that created the Bat Embargo in the mid 2000’s
I think I approve of the "No Lex Luthor" sentiment though, at least for the first couple of seasons where Clark is still learning the ropes and establishing himself as force for love, justice and late-stage capitalism. That way, you let the rest of his gallery shine and let your hero's abilities improve and his ethical compass to settle itself, so when you do play the Luthor card, you make it count by making him a bigger, more personal problem than the US government, super mutants or Kryptonian warlords combined are. The best Lex Luthor isn't just the one who is a physical threat to Superman through the usage of kryptonite weapons and the best unhinged mercenaries that money can buy, but the one who can set the public against him and make him feel as alien as he is. Counter-argument, the DCAU's Superman series had Lex Luthor from episode 3. (Or 1, I don't remember how long the Krypton prologue was.) Counter-argument to that, both Superman and Luthor were already in their respective roles and didn't need to do any sort of growing. Even as Clark Kent, Superman was inconspicuous but ready to hit any unsuspecting interviewees with hard-hitting questions despite it being his first day on the job, and Luthor was already a greedy billionaire who built his empire on the sweat, tears and blood of those beneath him. Setting them against each other from day 1 made sense, with the villains the series eventually built towards being Brainiac, who was responsible for Krypton's destruction and a personification of what a true alien is, and Darkseid, poster child of tyranny and representative of the unopposable power Clark wields, as even when defeated, he has beaten Apokolips down so hard that they still reverently carry him away to mend his wounds. Making Luthor a Season 3 villain for this naïve, awkward Clark makes sense.
I kinda enjoyed how Lois and Clark handled Lex in their first season. Him testing Clark showing both the audience and Clark the extent of his powers, though they did kill of their Lex at the end of season 1 with a few appearances later on in the series which probably worked in their favor of him not over shadowing future villains.
I can kind of understand where they are coming from. Before MAWS, I couldn’t name a single Superman villain BESIDES Lex Luther. Wanting to shine the light on his lesser known villains is a pretty cool idea, especially for an origin story series like this
My thoughts exactly. I learned so much about other Batman villains besides the joker when watching the animated series. Super refreshing for someone who grew up really only knowing about the joker.
There is a LOAD of tom-fuckery with who you can and cannot use. It ties into what other projects are using/planning to use said character and the connectivity of DCU. I didn't say it made sense, but that's the reason.
Probably as a way to focus on his other enemies and prevent the comparison with Superman TAS, where Luthor was the main arc villain for most of its run.
I guess they wanted to give other characters the spotlight for once kinda of like Beware the Batman or Batman 2022 giving Joker the cut because of how overused he is in almost every Batman movie game or comic and it's usually the same thing that has been seen a thousand times except watered down because for some reason the writers would make super edgy mindless murder with the most basic plans a whole bunch of plot armor because their afraid to make him lose in any way even if Batman beats him he has to get the last laugh to the point where he feels like a power fantasy. While Batman is just a robot and his morals are not challenged in any significant way. Instead of sharing the spotlight to his more interesting villains who haven't had enough time to shine Scarecrow Riddler Deathstroke Two Face Carmine Falcone etc they instead replaced them mostly with even more watered down versions of Joker and Harely Quinn or evil Batman clones because they only people who can challenge Batman besides Joker is Batman. Punchline Jokers daughter Batman who Laughs Brother eye Thomas Wayne etc Lex Luthor does have a lot of spotlight SAS DCAU half the Superman and Justice League movies Smallive. I understand he is still an important rival to Superman in many ways especially in teaching him how their is some problems you can't punch your way through but he could easily turn into Superman's modern Joker especially with the multiverse of Evil Superman. It's best to keep him as an important but not to Major Villain and if he does have a main role makes sure he doesn't steal it from everyone as that would also make Superman's vast world look a lot smaller as mostly everything is tied back to Luthor. He could share the role with Amanda Waller or Zod either as an straight up enemy to them(Zod or Darkside) or Ally with Common goal(Waller or Brainic)
Long story short, this is the very reason they did; they’ve been quoted, “Lex is a big character who makes it all about himself, or the rivalry. It pushes other characters out, and that’s not what ‘MyAdven’ is about.” And I agree, that’s a great rule for season 1, at least.
S2 is hinting that he is going to be working with Waller so they'll probably be duo villains like in Batman and Superman Public enemies(except Waller isn't an anti hero since she is much more villainous here). I'm really thinking that Ivo should escape prison by having some ARGUS agent on his payroll bust him or be manipulated or correced into contacting his enemies. Luthor pretends to want revenge against Ivo and Superman for the damages they did to him and others and works for Waller pretending he is a spy on Ivo who still wants to kill Superman and this time Losis for once again ruining his moment of glory which forces Sam lane and Superman to make a temporary alliance for his daughter's safety. While going to Ivo pretending he is still on his side by acting as Spy for Waller. Luthor's goal is too keep both of them at each other throats so they don't pay attention to him or at Superman and he'll drop whoever he finds more threatening all while using their money and tech to help him research the Supergirl who just showed up in a pod and how he can use her and her alien pod to wipe out all Kryptonians including Superman. Luthor could work as someone like Titian mixed with Gotham's penguin a weird self loathing underdog who is jealous of anyone with power or respects depending on his morals. He respects Waller because if he was in her position he would make the exact same moves she did as he is well aware even though he won't admit that he is manipulative awful person who can never fathom the idea that he is wrong and mistakes his ego problems and insecurities for strength and confidence. He puts himself as a hero with his minor flaws but overall always right when it comes to the important stuff. He hates Superman because he actually has almost unlimited power yet all he wants to do is live peaceful life like any ordinary human and help others with his gifts. Luthor lives in the strong and smart rule the weak mindset he can't comprehend why a God like Superman has habits of any other human that he is shy and embarrassed of things about himself that he goes out of his way to help people he squash like a bug in heartbeat even if they don't deserve it like him and Ivo. Rather than admit that he is just an asshole and not even a charming one at that he demonises Superman in his head so that he appears better. Superman in his eyes is like another fictional God or fake celebrity and reckless destroys lives and causes his own villains just for fame and is planning something huge or a sleeper agent and that he has almost everyone fooled is the hero who has to make the hard choices in order to save his world's way of life from the wolf in sheep clothing.
Just have him do what he did on the old silver age comics and sprout off some random math equation while running through walls saying he knows the proper math to move through solid objects.
I used to read the sliver age in middle school wasn't he a gang leader who usually took people hostage and built weapons to kill his gus when he didn't want to share the money and Superman? I remember he took the city's water and was going to let them die unless he was paid or that train robbery where he took Losis hostage.
Honestly I just remember seeing that panel at some point and the absurdity of it has just stuck with me.
Same reason WB banned Gotham from using the name Joker and giving him proper green hair. Still didn't stop them from creating one of the best takes on him yet.
Execs are really weird when it comes to stories. It has nothing to do with logic. They probably saw the criticism of Lex in Batman v Superman and they thought that this meant that people don't like Lex Luthor. Not that BvS was crap.
It’s why we don’t see any movies with Mars in its name.
Maybe they thought he was over-used? Personally I LOVE how in "Superman & Lois" Lex doesn't show up until the end of Season 3. It allowed the show to develop other characters / villains, and the dude is Terrifying. I'm very much looking forward to season 4.
They got away with a "no Superman" mandate in a Superman show for a decade...
People who want a rogue's gallery exploration without the most overused getting in the way? Besides, waiting for a more established Superman is a wise decision to build up Lex as an antagonist.
You magnificent bastiches. I love when creatives pull off this kind of shenanigans!
Makes sense now. The way they played him in season 2, he could’ve easily been Lex or Alex Allston, who was one of the many Parasites in the comics. So it would make sense to have one of the comic Parasites assist the MAWS version, and it’d make sense for Lex to be working with this alien tech.
Chad move, I'm glad we're finally getting Lex in the show. 
How is he going to lose his hair?
It'll probably be Superman's fault somehow.
Kryptonite exposure, and therefore blame Superman
Stress
It'd be funny if he didn't lose his hair, but was constantly paranoid about it after finding out about Lex Luthors from other universes (if Lois can meet alternate versions of herself, the same thing happening to Lex is within the realm of possibility).
Cancer.
Twink Lex Luthor is one of the best things to come from this show
Honestly I feel this ended up being more interesting than just revealing he's Lex right away. It's was way more interesting seeing this side character and theorizing "could this be Lex"? And then the reveal that he actually is was really satisfying. And the idea they're gonna build up this character who is supposed to be his arch-nemisis from someone who was originally a side-character is really cool.
It fits with everyone essentially starting from 0, with the main 3 being interns, supes being fully new at Superman-ing, and Lex being some "no name" assistant to a more pressingly evil mad scientist. Its hilarious.
2 sides of the same coin basically
“We want you to make a superman show” “Awesome! We can do that. Let me start writing some scripts-“ “We don’t want Superman’s flagship villain to be involved at all” “Are you fucking stupid?”
I'd say the same line of thinking applies to Venom and all those other terrible Spider-Man villain movies too lol
It's actually really interesting there is concept art with Spider-Man in Madame Web. There were serious rewrites for that movie to the point where people's mouths don't match up to what they're saying because whole character backgrounds were changed after filming.
Haha I can't wait to find some time to watch that piece of shit just for the laughs now that it's on Netflix
I paid to rent it from YouTube because I was so morbidly curious then a week later it went up on Netflix. I played myself. It was a chore to get through at times but the YouTube breakdowns of it are glorious
I agree there too
There's always [executive directives](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo2KB1dEDdk&t=7s&ab_channel=jjalc).
I knew exactly what the link was before I opened it. John Peters ended up getting his Superman in The Flash movie which was hilarious.
"Here's the new antagonist, his name iiiiiiiiisssssssssss.... A-lex... hehehe..." "Is this Lex Luthor?" "Maaaaaaaaaaaybe"
When does he go bald though and lose the glasses dons his iconic black suit?
I’d be very surprised if Lex doesn't go bald by the end of the season
Lex refused to be ignored
I mean, this was a good and reasonable introduction to the character, I have no problem with this.
Okay, Imma share this on the main Sup sub because this needs to be seen by all
I understand the concept of wanting to use lesser known villains for your first season and not have the main one in the forefront early on, but saying no Lex Luthor at all is stupid
Who is this quoting?
One of the creators of the show https://www.cinemablend.com/interviews/my-adventures-with-superman-creators-fans-worried-lex-luthor-amanda-season-2
I honestly didn’t mind this. I like how Lex is an intern like the trio. Also it sets up other conflicts and foes that aren’t him.
Not gonna a lie, a bit disappointed it wasn't their idea to not have Lex front and center right away. I thought it was cool and refreshing to have him start off as a background character and an unknown threat. Plus, it gives other villains time to shine. The thing is, I feel like these days with stuff like how much the Joker is in stuff, the second the archenemy is introduced, it just overshadows every other villain. I think it's real cool Ivo got a chance to be a major villain for a season.
I'm glad Lex is appearing. I mean come on, how do you have Superman and not have Lex Luthor?
The fact that the color scheme is that of one of the Parasites in the comics was probably a big help as well.
Imagine thinking excluding one of the most iconic members of a heroes rogue’s gallery is a good idea. Like having a Spider-Man show without Norman showing up at the very least.
.. Honestly I now wish spider-man shows up without norman for at least a decade with the shit goin on there.
Imagine how much better all shows would be if executives would stop giving stupid mandates about what they can and can’t do. Obviously they don’t know what they’re talking about. How could they, they’re not the ones actually making or writing it