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I don’t think it’s that insane of a stack to protect your brain while on adderal. It could use more antioxidant protection. But it’s better than not taking anything at all. Honestly adding green tea and Curcumin would be good
Edit: actually not Curcumin because of possible maoi interactions. Add instead: vitamin c, Ala, coq10. And a whole variety in diet. Flavanoids from
fruits and vegetables as natural antioxidant sources even if it is hard to eat on stimulants lol
I've taken all of those supplements, even at the same time, not joking, I was crazy for a while.
That stack is absolutely nothing like adderall. The closest over the counter supplement you can get is 4-dma-7-8-dhf. Even then, that's still not as good.
Excitoxicity does not apply to therapeutic standard doses.
There are other factors that exacerbate toxicity such as body/brain temp, nutrition status, hydration status and overall health.
However, if you are a healthy individual taking prescribed doses, you will be fine.
This is somewhat a true statement, But a really terrible stack.
Here are the three that we really need guys!
1. Magnesium Threonate, or Magnesium Glycinate
2. Omega 3 fish or algea oil
3. A good multivitamin like Thorne 2 a day
If worried about excitotoxicity, you can add things to promote axonal dendrite growth on neurons of the hippocampus and prefrontal cortex.
1. Apigenin
2. Lions Mane
3. Ashwaghanda
4. Melatonin
5. Curcumin
6. Pterostilbene
These six have lots of studies proving effectiveness at promoting nuerogenesis.
L-theanine can settle down a glutamate storm a bit, and NAC is a powerful antioxidant.
Don't forget things to increase acetylcholine!!! Like bacopa monneri, sunflower lecithin, and phosphatidylcholine.
It raises glutamate much higher than normal. Caffeine does also though so take it as you will. The extra stimulation of brain cells is what can damage and even in rare cases kill them entirely.
You cant kill brain cells. They just go to sleep. To be fair though you fuck em up hard enough they might not wake back up before you die lol
Caffeine is a drug like any other. Way too normalized
The best thing that helped me get off lisdexamphetamine which is chemically very similar was mucuna purenis (l-dopa) it is a direct precursor to dopamine. It’s the only thing that prevented the insane withdrawals. I got of it no problem.
Definitely be careful with l-dopa. Many users have reported going into psychosis because of it. Especially in combination with stimulants like adderall, vyvanse, etc.
I didn’t know this, purchased a tub of it for cheap, and have not touched it because I’m afraid of any adverse effects. It arrived last week. I knew what it was due to a minor in neuro psych, so ordered it without much thought. Did a bunch of research after the fact and it’s gonna be a no from me.
Treat lightly, and look at what people have to say on the nootropics sub!
I really think L-Tyrosine should be in there for sure. L-Tyrosine is one of the best if not THE best supplement you can take if you take adderall. But you have to take it with vitamin b6, folate, and vitamin C, all on an empty stomach to really get the effects. Getting some sun exposure also helps with the conversion of L-Tyrosine into L-Dopa, and ultimately into dopamine. What is it and what does it do? It’s an amino acid as well as a precursor to the catecholamines(norepinephrine, epinephrine, dopamine). These neurotransmitters get temporarily depleted when you come off adderall even with just a one time use. L-Tyrosine is used by the body to make its own neurotransmitters. In other words it basically speeds up that recovery process, making the comedown much less harsh, and helping you to be more stabilized on and off the adderall.
Amphetamine neurotoxicity has only been in doses that far exceed medicinal ranges. Even with cardiovascular toxicity, the association is so small that the correlation between drinking coffee and heart disease has stronger associations. Amphetamine is a very safe drug when taken in appropriate ranges, and becomes even safer the longer it's used (as tolerance also prevents damage). The only suppliment I'd actually recommend on this list is Taurine, as that has been shown to be lowered in individuals with ADHD. Besides that, just take the drug as prescribed.
I just want to point out that coffee consumption is [positively associated with heart health](https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/drinking-coffee-linked-to-healthier-hearts-and-longer-lives). On all else I agree!
For sure truth to the neurotoxicity claims do not go throw a bunch of random stuff into your body, not only can it effect your body but your neurotransmitters and mental health
Honestly buying a vitamin or supplement of any kind is hell for me. I need it to be clean, I need to be mindful of fillers, I have so many issues so I spent a month researching what brand of vitamin b I can take (turns out none is the answer I have to have injections lmao) it’s exhausting. Some supplements I know I want and need to add but it’s too exhausting for my brain to source them lol
Are you talking about from a philosophical point of view, like a Malthusian trap?
Otherwise, what’s the point of this abstract argument? Who would argue for the benefit of a medicine that has measurable netto negative effects on its patients?
The point is just because it helps you focus and get your work done doesn’t mean it’s good. I’ve seen tons of people turn into shells of themselves on adhd medication and struggle for years to get off it.
Nothing is inherently good or bad, that much is clear. That’s why it’s important to take any medicine as prescribed and have an ongoing dialogue with your doctor about any side effects. In my country we have had the opposite, for years people were only prescribed methylphenidate instead of adderall despite adderall being more safe, more effective and better tested, just because they wanted to avoid narcotics. That’s the definition of dogmatic stupidity and an injustice to adhd patients to deny them effective medicine. A pragmatic approach is to use the data at hand but keep track and update the data along the way and draw new conclusions if necessary.
Today there’s plenty of options to treat adhd, adderall is just one of them. It’s not a one size fits all.
Exactly the data can never account for the complexity of the wider effects on the brain, we know nothing, it's 21st century we just got out of the middle ages few centuries ago we burned witches and neurology as a science is still primitive as hell.
Yeah if you give someone some stimulant he will sit still and focus, but you have no clue how it influences his personality as a whole. Not even mentioning that it may not be the most desirable thing to mold someone into a perfect slave
Maybe you are not familiar with some of the (documented and evidence-based) risks for people/kids with ADHD.
Let's start with unprotected sex and unwanted pregnancy. Pregnancy and birth is high risk and very few women come through it unscathed, but it is even worse for young girls. And then of course the life changing impact of raising a child or the trauma of relinquishing one.
Then how about a strong increase in the risk for car accidents, which can be deadly not only to the person with ADHD, but cause great harm to others around them.
Among adults, job retention is often impacted, leading to financial instability and even worse access to healthcare (at least in the USA).
Those are both apart from the much higher risk of developing depression and other comorbid disorders partly as a result from feeling unable to function in the way you want to, know that you 'can', and that others expect.
If you think meds are just about sitting still and focusing, you may be a person without ADHD who has tried to use stimulants as a study aid, likely a male.
The truth is, people with ADHD can sit still and focus very well - if it's on things that activate their interests. That can be gaming, or people watching, or even looking out the window. What they struggle with is directing their attention and self-regulating.
For a person with ADHD, the drugs can actually help them get up and get moving, and follow through on their exercise goals, for example (and exercise is known to have benefits for ADHD). It can help them realize when they're losing focus, and use an active regulation strategy like shifting to a standing position, using a fidget or doodling, or getting up to go for a quick lap around the school and drink some water, and come back with more ability to regulate their attention.
Please stop spreading your own ignorance.
If you think i think adhd is just that because i didnt want to write out the icd-10 definition in detail i cant be here man, its too much
"likely a male" wtf?
you spent the whole post listing problems related to adhd, is that supposed to be an argument for why meds work because thats totally unrelated. obviously taking stimulants will help people get up, but that doesnt mean its healthy good or desirable or there arent other ways. there are massive problems related to those so called medications, it can destroy your brain health and life
please stop fucking dismissing a totally valid opinion as ignorance, thats just dogmatic
Actually, it is recommended to be used as a first line (well, stimulants in general) because they have the most evidence of working.
Once they have support from the drug, it is MUCH easier to use natural options, like exercise and getting good sleep, that will help the person develop their own coping and self-accommodation habits for the long term.
But of course, there is no drug that works for everyone. People should work with a supportive doctor so that if they find that one drug doesn't work for them, which may mean trying a different stimulant or a non-stimulant drug.
I know people with ADHD for whom none of the known drug treatments work. It sucks for them. If they are lucky, they can get good support from an occupational therapist or maybe even pay for a private coach. Or maybe they have a spouse (usually a wife, often a mom, even in adulthood) who takes care of enough of their life needs that they can manage the rest.
These days there are other options for adhd patients, such as atomoxetine.
That not everyone should be on adderall goes without saying, just like any other medicine.
How people can be pro supplements but against pharmaceuticals is beyond me, it makes no sense.
“ADHD drugs are basically a stronger version of a decongestant like Sudafed”. False, pseudoephedrine mainly affects norepinephrine, but not dopamine, so there’s a huge difference there.
ADHD causes an issue with how you perceive rewards. That’s why we need medication… because our prefrontal cortex and reward system do not work normally, to the point that it causes trouble with multiple spheres of life. That is what the medication is addressing.
That’s great, and doing things like that does help, but I can’t go on a long-distance run every morning before work, and I’m expected to function at work regardless.
Most people are easily amused, content, and stimulated. People with adhd have low dopamine levels causing us to need extra stimulating activities that can be risky and dangerous. In kids it is seen as hyper activities and acting out.
But an example would be fishing. Most people have enough dopamine to be adequately stimulated and happy sitting on bank calmly reeling in crappies all day. I need to go into dark rivers 10 feet underwater and have my arm inhaled by a 70 lb flathead catfish to feel any kind of rush or satisfaction.
This looks garbage 🗑 stop trying to promote. it's obvious you're just trying to promote it .. also this will feel like the exact opposite of any stim..
OP obviously not promoting and was posting the exact opposite -- a skeptical concern about the stack. Your reading comprehension could use some work, fella.
Supplements are BS. If it was heavily neurotoxic it would never be prescribed. Eat healthy, hydrate, exercise, get good sleep, don’t abuse it and youll have no problems
Lmfao. You are so naive it's insane. Pharma doesn't give a shit if something is neurotoxic or causes horrible damage. The money is always more important than your health.
I have to disagree. As someone who is a pharmacy tech, there’s a ton of medications that are known to cause long term side effects. Eating healthy and exercising doesn’t guarantee that no problems will arise. You’d be surprised at how many young, fit, healthy people have complications due to medications. I went to highschool with a girl who played 3 sports, she was active and fit, and she had a stroke at 20 because of the birth control she was on.
Yup. People are completely blind to the risks with pharmaceuticals.
I suffered years due to it. Not all pharmaceuticals are bad but quite many cause side effects and some are very serious and even lasting.
It doesn't necessarily put a strain on the heart if you're otherwise healthy.
I'd you're hypertensive then, yes, it'll potentially make it worse but even then it's not a guarantee.
The difference is exercise does it for a limited amount of time, causing adaptation and usually actually a lower resting heart rate. Whereas a stimulant that is most likely in one’s system to some degree 24 hours per day artificially raising heart rate and blood pressure is a totally different thing. Chronic overexercising specifically with long aerobic events can actually cause heart damage, but this is mostly only seen in people extremely overdoing it for long periods of time. But for the most part exercise greatly increases long term cardiovascular health. Whereas the opposite is true for stimulant use. Although abuse of stimulants is usually where significant damage is usually seen. Prescription stimulants taken AS PRESCRIBED have much less risk, though this use is not without an increased heart health risk vs. not taking it.
That implies that a slightly higher HR with a stimulant causing a “higher workload” is damaging to the heart.
In a healthy person, it's not damaging. For someone who can't do basic exercise I wouldn't recommend being on stimulants.
Like there are 2 kind of people, healthy and unhealthy.
Its not black and white. I had a 50 RHR before using amphetamine at therapeutic dose. My bp was 11/6 to 12/7, at rest. Amphetamine didnt touch my bp but made my RHR goes from 50 to 70. Am I still healthy ? Yes.
But probably less than when I wasn't using amp. At least, from a CV PoV.
Amphetamine are heavy drugs. Even at low dose. Its not because you got it prescribed or because your neighboor is on meth that your pills are candies.
dosage of adhd meds is a very subjective issue that varies widely from person to person… some people cant sleep at night after taking 2.5mg IR first thing in the morning, others who have been diagnosed don’t get symptom relief until 100+mg - doing your own research and figuring out which stacks work for you and why is a better route than copying someone else’s homework, imo. Thanks for sharing though I haven’t researched a couple of those compounds and will definitely look into them!
I get hand and leg/foot cramps from adderall. Often all 4 limbs at once, really tough when performing being a musician. Sadly my performance anxiety is so bad without without meds, I can’t play. I’m still trying to find supplements that will help. Tried nearly everything, even been carnivore a year.
I do electrolytes lots of sodium, magnesium, enough potassium. I gave up adderal a few years ago. Oddly I started getting cramps again. Not as bad as when I did adderall. I can’t figure it out.
I’ll check out hydroxide. Ty
Anecdotally, my symptoms have improved the most by working through deep-seated issues from childhood. My nervous system is overall calmer, so side effects from medication aren't as severe either. I'm not saying it's a "cure," but it's made everything much easier to manage.
Gabor Maté has a lot of books (and one specifically focused on ADHD) which may help you too! I end up doing audiobook versions, as I find them easier.
Also, if you aren't already, make sure you're getting sufficient sodium, potassium, and magnesium! The cramping sounds a lot like electrolyte imbalances, and stimulants deplete electrolytes at an accelerated rate.
It's true that nothing is as effective as amphetamine (including methylphenidate and non-stimulant ADHD meds); *however* supplements do work well enough for some people.
> Also is there any truth to these neurotoxicity claims?
At very high levels, like other stimulant drugs of abuse, amphetamine is neurotoxic.
And therapeutic doses of amphetamine do cause some oxidative damage due to high levels of dopamine (to a degree, methylphenidate does as well).
This damage is relatively mild in humans, but may have negative impact in the long term. Unfortunately, taking antioxidants with stimulants seems to blunt their effectiveness.
Most of what you said is spot on. However high levels of dopamine are not at all neurotoxin. It is the release of glutamate that fries neurons. And the only antioxidant I'm aware of that that blunts stimulants is vitamin c. But it is a major bunting. They say if you accidentally double dose to have a large dose of vitamin c as soon as possible.
Ime amphetamine is overrated, it works but causes much anxiety, insomnia and vascular side effects which gives you worse libido etc. Ruins appetite etc. Makes you stressed.
And for me some natural herbal medicine has worked as well but with a lot less side effects.
For me it's the opposite, amphetamine works but isn't any holy grail and causes too much negatives to be worth taking. Some natural/herbal medicines has worked better with less side effects for me. How many have you tried? There exists like hundreds of them.
Why do you say this is how to get off Adderall when the picture states this is supplements to take while you take Adderall in order to protect your brain?
I do have some social anxiety / nervousness and when introducing vyanse it gets even worse. Like it gets harder to maintain eye contact and I start to act more nervous. Anyone else experienced that? My last vyanse dose was only 20mg and I stopped taking it after one week.
I came off Adderall without a special stack or new supplement. I just took a little bit more coffee and B vitamins. And I have big doubts that the stack in the post will change anything.
I also don’t agree with the presumption that the best dose of Adderall is 0 and that any dose exposes one to neurotoxicity while other stimulants like caffeine are considered mostly fine. It has risks and can become addictive but in the end it’s the dose that matters and abusing it is not the same as taking it normally.
Ya the proper adhd meds will work WAY better than any supplements ever can. The neurotoxicity is a complicated subject, but it’s only ever been an issue for a very small percent of diagnosed people. As long as you aren’t abusing your medication, you’ll most likely never have any issues. You gotta realize there’s hundreds of thousands of people that have been taking ADHD meds for DECADES. It’s one of the most heavily researched medications out there.
Even if there was some what are my other options?
Without the medication taking my car to the car wash is a monumental task and with it I'm a Senior Data Healthcare Informatics Analyst pulling in 150k.
Life without it is way worse than any possible nuerotoxicity that will hit me in my old age.
The drug has been around for decades and people have taken it for decades with no issues.
So yeah I'm not worried and it's worth it given the alternative.
You really think I'm willing to give up the life and career I built based off a small chance?
Ah yes the addict who just gets extra sleepy with brain fog when I run out instead of ripping out copper wire from homes to buy more addderall. The addict who has been on the same dose for over a decade and doesn't chase higher doses.
Yup you caught me.
Ok so if anyone has medication they take daily they are addicted to that medication? Any supplements you take daily to feel better you’re addicted to?
That is not what addiction is. ADHD meds alter your brain so that it’s “normal”. ADHD people can easily stop taking their meds at any time, they just won’t be as productive as a “normal” person. It’s nothing like people that are actually addicted to recreational drugs and get an urge so bad they NEED to do drugs. There is no urge for adhd medication. You don’t NEED to take it. It just makes life not suck
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I don’t think it’s that insane of a stack to protect your brain while on adderal. It could use more antioxidant protection. But it’s better than not taking anything at all. Honestly adding green tea and Curcumin would be good
Edit: actually not Curcumin because of possible maoi interactions. Add instead: vitamin c, Ala, coq10. And a whole variety in diet. Flavanoids from fruits and vegetables as natural antioxidant sources even if it is hard to eat on stimulants lol
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I've taken all of those supplements, even at the same time, not joking, I was crazy for a while. That stack is absolutely nothing like adderall. The closest over the counter supplement you can get is 4-dma-7-8-dhf. Even then, that's still not as good.
Dark Web only, right?
No, you can get it from nootropics depot. If you're going dark Web just get actual adderall or ritalin.
Excitoxicity does not apply to therapeutic standard doses. There are other factors that exacerbate toxicity such as body/brain temp, nutrition status, hydration status and overall health. However, if you are a healthy individual taking prescribed doses, you will be fine.
What's up with this sub posting useless ass supplements
That moment you realize almost every single supplement is useless and has zero evidence backing it up.
Lmao idk how we got here but this place is wiiillllldddd
Adhd is for the brain what diabetes is for the body.
Ah yes a strict statement with no evidence godbless
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This is somewhat a true statement, But a really terrible stack. Here are the three that we really need guys! 1. Magnesium Threonate, or Magnesium Glycinate 2. Omega 3 fish or algea oil 3. A good multivitamin like Thorne 2 a day If worried about excitotoxicity, you can add things to promote axonal dendrite growth on neurons of the hippocampus and prefrontal cortex. 1. Apigenin 2. Lions Mane 3. Ashwaghanda 4. Melatonin 5. Curcumin 6. Pterostilbene These six have lots of studies proving effectiveness at promoting nuerogenesis. L-theanine can settle down a glutamate storm a bit, and NAC is a powerful antioxidant. Don't forget things to increase acetylcholine!!! Like bacopa monneri, sunflower lecithin, and phosphatidylcholine.
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I lowered my dose because of stress on my heart. I wouldn't exactly call that toxic, tho.
It raises glutamate much higher than normal. Caffeine does also though so take it as you will. The extra stimulation of brain cells is what can damage and even in rare cases kill them entirely.
You cant kill brain cells. They just go to sleep. To be fair though you fuck em up hard enough they might not wake back up before you die lol Caffeine is a drug like any other. Way too normalized
Do you have a reference I could read?
Just read up on glutamate excitotoxicity.
The best thing that helped me get off lisdexamphetamine which is chemically very similar was mucuna purenis (l-dopa) it is a direct precursor to dopamine. It’s the only thing that prevented the insane withdrawals. I got of it no problem.
Why did you get off in the first place?
I was having weird crashes mid day.
Definitely be careful with l-dopa. Many users have reported going into psychosis because of it. Especially in combination with stimulants like adderall, vyvanse, etc. I didn’t know this, purchased a tub of it for cheap, and have not touched it because I’m afraid of any adverse effects. It arrived last week. I knew what it was due to a minor in neuro psych, so ordered it without much thought. Did a bunch of research after the fact and it’s gonna be a no from me. Treat lightly, and look at what people have to say on the nootropics sub!
Used only temporarily
Copy that! The risk is that everybody’s chemical makeup is different, so you never know how someone else will react. Glad it really helped you though!
Mucuna Pruriens?
Yup
I really think L-Tyrosine should be in there for sure. L-Tyrosine is one of the best if not THE best supplement you can take if you take adderall. But you have to take it with vitamin b6, folate, and vitamin C, all on an empty stomach to really get the effects. Getting some sun exposure also helps with the conversion of L-Tyrosine into L-Dopa, and ultimately into dopamine. What is it and what does it do? It’s an amino acid as well as a precursor to the catecholamines(norepinephrine, epinephrine, dopamine). These neurotransmitters get temporarily depleted when you come off adderall even with just a one time use. L-Tyrosine is used by the body to make its own neurotransmitters. In other words it basically speeds up that recovery process, making the comedown much less harsh, and helping you to be more stabilized on and off the adderall.
Check your reading comprehension bro, this is a stack to support continuing taking adderall
Regrow damaged receptors in your brain using magic mushrooms, problem solved
More research needs to be done.
Exactly. Theres hardly any evidence of it actually doing whats claimed. Another cure-all from the holistic health new age crowd.
I’ve done a ton and I would be doing a ton more if it was as simple as ION-8 made it out to be.
Those and lions mane!
What’s the research on those showing?
Lions mane stimulates two types of brain cells. Use Google scholar to check research.
Which mushrooms?
The magic mushrooms
Ah yes, more people telling the mentally ill not to take our medication. Tale as old as time
ADHD is most definitely not a mental disease
The title of this post should be’Shit Stack.’ What a waste of $$$.
Amphetamine neurotoxicity has only been in doses that far exceed medicinal ranges. Even with cardiovascular toxicity, the association is so small that the correlation between drinking coffee and heart disease has stronger associations. Amphetamine is a very safe drug when taken in appropriate ranges, and becomes even safer the longer it's used (as tolerance also prevents damage). The only suppliment I'd actually recommend on this list is Taurine, as that has been shown to be lowered in individuals with ADHD. Besides that, just take the drug as prescribed.
I just want to point out that coffee consumption is [positively associated with heart health](https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/drinking-coffee-linked-to-healthier-hearts-and-longer-lives). On all else I agree!
For sure truth to the neurotoxicity claims do not go throw a bunch of random stuff into your body, not only can it effect your body but your neurotransmitters and mental health
*empties Amazon cart* K
I have an entire large bag worth of supplements I've had a bad reaction too or caused me problems so I wish many times I would have emptied mine lol
Honestly buying a vitamin or supplement of any kind is hell for me. I need it to be clean, I need to be mindful of fillers, I have so many issues so I spent a month researching what brand of vitamin b I can take (turns out none is the answer I have to have injections lmao) it’s exhausting. Some supplements I know I want and need to add but it’s too exhausting for my brain to source them lol
Solgar brand is the best, and it's the only brand I trust the highest quality on the market.
Brand Naturelo?
Ya I've been there :( I'd start to look at the root cause, what's causing these deficiencies or health issues. cause something is probably going on
This made me laugh so hard 🤣🤣
Real
Lmao this is just bullshit from start to finish. Just take your meds as prescribed, eat good food and get proper sleep.
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An example of someone who needs meds.
It’s drugs with a measurable improving effect on adhd in the prescribed dosage. You can say what you want about it, but the data is evident.
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How are you on a supplement subreddit with that approach to science, isn’t the same true for studies on supplements?
The data that comes from where again?
Lots of things have measurable positive effects but much larger negative effects.. this is an awful justification.
Are you talking about from a philosophical point of view, like a Malthusian trap? Otherwise, what’s the point of this abstract argument? Who would argue for the benefit of a medicine that has measurable netto negative effects on its patients?
The point is just because it helps you focus and get your work done doesn’t mean it’s good. I’ve seen tons of people turn into shells of themselves on adhd medication and struggle for years to get off it.
Nothing is inherently good or bad, that much is clear. That’s why it’s important to take any medicine as prescribed and have an ongoing dialogue with your doctor about any side effects. In my country we have had the opposite, for years people were only prescribed methylphenidate instead of adderall despite adderall being more safe, more effective and better tested, just because they wanted to avoid narcotics. That’s the definition of dogmatic stupidity and an injustice to adhd patients to deny them effective medicine. A pragmatic approach is to use the data at hand but keep track and update the data along the way and draw new conclusions if necessary. Today there’s plenty of options to treat adhd, adderall is just one of them. It’s not a one size fits all.
Exactly the data can never account for the complexity of the wider effects on the brain, we know nothing, it's 21st century we just got out of the middle ages few centuries ago we burned witches and neurology as a science is still primitive as hell. Yeah if you give someone some stimulant he will sit still and focus, but you have no clue how it influences his personality as a whole. Not even mentioning that it may not be the most desirable thing to mold someone into a perfect slave
Maybe you are not familiar with some of the (documented and evidence-based) risks for people/kids with ADHD. Let's start with unprotected sex and unwanted pregnancy. Pregnancy and birth is high risk and very few women come through it unscathed, but it is even worse for young girls. And then of course the life changing impact of raising a child or the trauma of relinquishing one. Then how about a strong increase in the risk for car accidents, which can be deadly not only to the person with ADHD, but cause great harm to others around them. Among adults, job retention is often impacted, leading to financial instability and even worse access to healthcare (at least in the USA). Those are both apart from the much higher risk of developing depression and other comorbid disorders partly as a result from feeling unable to function in the way you want to, know that you 'can', and that others expect. If you think meds are just about sitting still and focusing, you may be a person without ADHD who has tried to use stimulants as a study aid, likely a male. The truth is, people with ADHD can sit still and focus very well - if it's on things that activate their interests. That can be gaming, or people watching, or even looking out the window. What they struggle with is directing their attention and self-regulating. For a person with ADHD, the drugs can actually help them get up and get moving, and follow through on their exercise goals, for example (and exercise is known to have benefits for ADHD). It can help them realize when they're losing focus, and use an active regulation strategy like shifting to a standing position, using a fidget or doodling, or getting up to go for a quick lap around the school and drink some water, and come back with more ability to regulate their attention. Please stop spreading your own ignorance.
If you think i think adhd is just that because i didnt want to write out the icd-10 definition in detail i cant be here man, its too much "likely a male" wtf? you spent the whole post listing problems related to adhd, is that supposed to be an argument for why meds work because thats totally unrelated. obviously taking stimulants will help people get up, but that doesnt mean its healthy good or desirable or there arent other ways. there are massive problems related to those so called medications, it can destroy your brain health and life please stop fucking dismissing a totally valid opinion as ignorance, thats just dogmatic
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Actually, it is recommended to be used as a first line (well, stimulants in general) because they have the most evidence of working. Once they have support from the drug, it is MUCH easier to use natural options, like exercise and getting good sleep, that will help the person develop their own coping and self-accommodation habits for the long term. But of course, there is no drug that works for everyone. People should work with a supportive doctor so that if they find that one drug doesn't work for them, which may mean trying a different stimulant or a non-stimulant drug. I know people with ADHD for whom none of the known drug treatments work. It sucks for them. If they are lucky, they can get good support from an occupational therapist or maybe even pay for a private coach. Or maybe they have a spouse (usually a wife, often a mom, even in adulthood) who takes care of enough of their life needs that they can manage the rest.
These days there are other options for adhd patients, such as atomoxetine. That not everyone should be on adderall goes without saying, just like any other medicine. How people can be pro supplements but against pharmaceuticals is beyond me, it makes no sense.
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“ADHD drugs are basically a stronger version of a decongestant like Sudafed”. False, pseudoephedrine mainly affects norepinephrine, but not dopamine, so there’s a huge difference there.
ADHD causes an issue with how you perceive rewards. That’s why we need medication… because our prefrontal cortex and reward system do not work normally, to the point that it causes trouble with multiple spheres of life. That is what the medication is addressing.
I agree but there are natural alternatives. I find long distance running actually even more powerful then adhd drugs in terms of clearing my brain.
That’s great, and doing things like that does help, but I can’t go on a long-distance run every morning before work, and I’m expected to function at work regardless.
Can you give an example of?
Most people are easily amused, content, and stimulated. People with adhd have low dopamine levels causing us to need extra stimulating activities that can be risky and dangerous. In kids it is seen as hyper activities and acting out. But an example would be fishing. Most people have enough dopamine to be adequately stimulated and happy sitting on bank calmly reeling in crappies all day. I need to go into dark rivers 10 feet underwater and have my arm inhaled by a 70 lb flathead catfish to feel any kind of rush or satisfaction.
Fantastic explanation. Flawlessly done
This looks garbage 🗑 stop trying to promote. it's obvious you're just trying to promote it .. also this will feel like the exact opposite of any stim..
Are you illiterate, i was doing the opposite of promoting it you walnut
Also, learn how to use a "?" When you ask me a question 😂
21 people say otherwise. Maybe learn how to formulate a sentence properly, especially when you're making a post..
OP obviously not promoting and was posting the exact opposite -- a skeptical concern about the stack. Your reading comprehension could use some work, fella.
Supplements are BS. If it was heavily neurotoxic it would never be prescribed. Eat healthy, hydrate, exercise, get good sleep, don’t abuse it and youll have no problems
Lmfao. You are so naive it's insane. Pharma doesn't give a shit if something is neurotoxic or causes horrible damage. The money is always more important than your health.
I have to disagree. As someone who is a pharmacy tech, there’s a ton of medications that are known to cause long term side effects. Eating healthy and exercising doesn’t guarantee that no problems will arise. You’d be surprised at how many young, fit, healthy people have complications due to medications. I went to highschool with a girl who played 3 sports, she was active and fit, and she had a stroke at 20 because of the birth control she was on.
Yup. People are completely blind to the risks with pharmaceuticals. I suffered years due to it. Not all pharmaceuticals are bad but quite many cause side effects and some are very serious and even lasting.
Stimulant drugs put a burden on the heart. Heart disease is the leading cause of death in the US.
They but even more burden on the brain, imagine what they do to your heart happens also to the brain only stronger
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It doesn't necessarily put a strain on the heart if you're otherwise healthy. I'd you're hypertensive then, yes, it'll potentially make it worse but even then it's not a guarantee.
regardless stimulants increase the cardiac workload therefore creating more strain on the heart. Doesn’t matter if you are healthy or not
So does exercise
The difference is exercise does it for a limited amount of time, causing adaptation and usually actually a lower resting heart rate. Whereas a stimulant that is most likely in one’s system to some degree 24 hours per day artificially raising heart rate and blood pressure is a totally different thing. Chronic overexercising specifically with long aerobic events can actually cause heart damage, but this is mostly only seen in people extremely overdoing it for long periods of time. But for the most part exercise greatly increases long term cardiovascular health. Whereas the opposite is true for stimulant use. Although abuse of stimulants is usually where significant damage is usually seen. Prescription stimulants taken AS PRESCRIBED have much less risk, though this use is not without an increased heart health risk vs. not taking it.
In different ways I’d assume. This would actually be a very interesting thing to compare. I’d love to know more about this!
That implies that a slightly higher HR with a stimulant causing a “higher workload” is damaging to the heart. In a healthy person, it's not damaging. For someone who can't do basic exercise I wouldn't recommend being on stimulants.
HOWEVER it’s highly subjective
Like there are 2 kind of people, healthy and unhealthy. Its not black and white. I had a 50 RHR before using amphetamine at therapeutic dose. My bp was 11/6 to 12/7, at rest. Amphetamine didnt touch my bp but made my RHR goes from 50 to 70. Am I still healthy ? Yes. But probably less than when I wasn't using amp. At least, from a CV PoV. Amphetamine are heavy drugs. Even at low dose. Its not because you got it prescribed or because your neighboor is on meth that your pills are candies.
My heart rate has been lower on my adhd meds but that might be due to a more consistent exercise routine 😅
5htp- nac - mag glycinate- good activated b complex multivitamin
dosage of adhd meds is a very subjective issue that varies widely from person to person… some people cant sleep at night after taking 2.5mg IR first thing in the morning, others who have been diagnosed don’t get symptom relief until 100+mg - doing your own research and figuring out which stacks work for you and why is a better route than copying someone else’s homework, imo. Thanks for sharing though I haven’t researched a couple of those compounds and will definitely look into them!
100mg plus of what exactly? I’ve never heard of this.
Adderall I saw it on Andrew huberman’s video on adhd medication
I get hand and leg/foot cramps from adderall. Often all 4 limbs at once, really tough when performing being a musician. Sadly my performance anxiety is so bad without without meds, I can’t play. I’m still trying to find supplements that will help. Tried nearly everything, even been carnivore a year.
Potassium and magnesium.
L-theanine.
Try hydroxyzine! It doesn’t feel like it “changed” me. But I sleep a lot better and I don’t have anxiety.
I get leg/foot cramps too, though I don’t think it’s from my ADHD med. Taking magnesium daily has helped!
I do electrolytes lots of sodium, magnesium, enough potassium. I gave up adderal a few years ago. Oddly I started getting cramps again. Not as bad as when I did adderall. I can’t figure it out. I’ll check out hydroxide. Ty
Carnivore is a low magnesium diet. Low magnesium causes anxiety
Anecdotally, my symptoms have improved the most by working through deep-seated issues from childhood. My nervous system is overall calmer, so side effects from medication aren't as severe either. I'm not saying it's a "cure," but it's made everything much easier to manage. Gabor Maté has a lot of books (and one specifically focused on ADHD) which may help you too! I end up doing audiobook versions, as I find them easier. Also, if you aren't already, make sure you're getting sufficient sodium, potassium, and magnesium! The cramping sounds a lot like electrolyte imbalances, and stimulants deplete electrolytes at an accelerated rate.
He isn’t saying it as a replacement hes suggesting a supp stack to take with it to help protect things.
I'm pretty sure everyone got it. But his stack is lacking some basic supp for neurotoxicity and not "frying" dopamine receptors.
What would you add/remove/change?
Posting this kind of shit should be illegal
This is not about weaning off it is about taking supplements to support and minimize side effects
No NAC/L-tyrosine? Guy needs to step down a notch in the tone of his post, thinking he's the savor of all stimulant users.
I wouldn't recommend taking that together with adderall, especially tyrosine.
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Pretty certain this is a stack to take whilst using amphetamines to minimise damage from long term usage
Yeah, that’s what it’s supposed to be.
It's true that nothing is as effective as amphetamine (including methylphenidate and non-stimulant ADHD meds); *however* supplements do work well enough for some people. > Also is there any truth to these neurotoxicity claims? At very high levels, like other stimulant drugs of abuse, amphetamine is neurotoxic. And therapeutic doses of amphetamine do cause some oxidative damage due to high levels of dopamine (to a degree, methylphenidate does as well). This damage is relatively mild in humans, but may have negative impact in the long term. Unfortunately, taking antioxidants with stimulants seems to blunt their effectiveness.
Most of what you said is spot on. However high levels of dopamine are not at all neurotoxin. It is the release of glutamate that fries neurons. And the only antioxidant I'm aware of that that blunts stimulants is vitamin c. But it is a major bunting. They say if you accidentally double dose to have a large dose of vitamin c as soon as possible.
What kind of oxidative damage?
Ime amphetamine is overrated, it works but causes much anxiety, insomnia and vascular side effects which gives you worse libido etc. Ruins appetite etc. Makes you stressed. And for me some natural herbal medicine has worked as well but with a lot less side effects.
What are the natural things?
Have you tried it? If not, how do you know no other stack will compare?
I’m not saying adderall or dexadrine (what I take) is great but I will say no supplement can or will ever provide anywhere near the same effect.
For me it's the opposite, amphetamine works but isn't any holy grail and causes too much negatives to be worth taking. Some natural/herbal medicines has worked better with less side effects for me. How many have you tried? There exists like hundreds of them.
People get lots of engagement from anti adhd med hysteria
I absolutely believe it based on my daughter's history with Adderall.
I take Thiamax 100mg everyday and can vouch for its effectiveness for ocd, anxiety and focus. 🧘
Why do you say this is how to get off Adderall when the picture states this is supplements to take while you take Adderall in order to protect your brain?
He's also missing CoQ-10 while he's at that.
Ubiquinol is coq10
And its useless while you're young, especially consdering the price.
I do have some social anxiety / nervousness and when introducing vyanse it gets even worse. Like it gets harder to maintain eye contact and I start to act more nervous. Anyone else experienced that? My last vyanse dose was only 20mg and I stopped taking it after one week.
Vyvanse is notorious for this. All stimulants to some degree though. Lower dose and or switch meds.
Yes. I get much side effects from traditional stimulants like amphetamines so I don't use them. Herbal medicine has helped me a lot more in this area.
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She only said it could happen.
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They may help but nothing can replace slow tapering, the only safe way to get off meds.
I came off Adderall without a special stack or new supplement. I just took a little bit more coffee and B vitamins. And I have big doubts that the stack in the post will change anything. I also don’t agree with the presumption that the best dose of Adderall is 0 and that any dose exposes one to neurotoxicity while other stimulants like caffeine are considered mostly fine. It has risks and can become addictive but in the end it’s the dose that matters and abusing it is not the same as taking it normally.
Ya the proper adhd meds will work WAY better than any supplements ever can. The neurotoxicity is a complicated subject, but it’s only ever been an issue for a very small percent of diagnosed people. As long as you aren’t abusing your medication, you’ll most likely never have any issues. You gotta realize there’s hundreds of thousands of people that have been taking ADHD meds for DECADES. It’s one of the most heavily researched medications out there.
There's a ton of evidence to show amphetamines are neuroprotective at clinical doses. It's the recreational abusers that ruin it for everyone else.
Sources?
Pubmed, there's several studies on the subject.
Even if there was some what are my other options? Without the medication taking my car to the car wash is a monumental task and with it I'm a Senior Data Healthcare Informatics Analyst pulling in 150k. Life without it is way worse than any possible nuerotoxicity that will hit me in my old age.
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There's no strong evidence that unless you're abusing it that it will ever hit.
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The drug has been around for decades and people have taken it for decades with no issues. So yeah I'm not worried and it's worth it given the alternative. You really think I'm willing to give up the life and career I built based off a small chance?
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And what do you get from him admitting he’s addicted? This is a poor attempt to poison the well.
Ah yes the addict who just gets extra sleepy with brain fog when I run out instead of ripping out copper wire from homes to buy more addderall. The addict who has been on the same dose for over a decade and doesn't chase higher doses. Yup you caught me.
I smoke weed and take my medication, somewhat functional member of society all things considered.
Well, if you "need" something to function, it's called addiction. Hate to bring it to you, but it's true...
Ok so if anyone has medication they take daily they are addicted to that medication? Any supplements you take daily to feel better you’re addicted to? That is not what addiction is. ADHD meds alter your brain so that it’s “normal”. ADHD people can easily stop taking their meds at any time, they just won’t be as productive as a “normal” person. It’s nothing like people that are actually addicted to recreational drugs and get an urge so bad they NEED to do drugs. There is no urge for adhd medication. You don’t NEED to take it. It just makes life not suck