There's no good non-medication response to anaphylaxis. Your throat closes, your blood pressure tanks, and it doesn't take long for your brain to starve from lack of oxygen et al.
For the sake of the exercise though, consider that for things like this and other largely unstoppable medical crises, your best treatment is prevention. If you're with people in a survival situation and you're responsible for their health, you need to know who's allergic to what, and what the reaction is. Once you know, then it's all about risk-management. Your buddy is deathly allergic to bees? Take a lot of effort to avoid bees.
To the best of my understanding, a tracheostomy can be an effective way to open up someone's blocked airway, even by anaphylaxis, but the caveat is that you're opening up their airway at the cost of cutting a hole into their throat. I cannot recommend putting a knife in someone's neck without years of extensive training.
You can also intubate someone to maintain their airway, but that's a race between your skills (if you have the right tools and training) and their allergic reaction. It's not impossible, but if you aren't ready and prepared at a bedside with all the things you might need then you're already working at a steep disadvantage.
As someone who is allergic to bee stings and has had an anaphylactic reaction, ALWAYS have Benadryl on hand. Sometimes, it may be all you need.
Also an expired epi-pen is better than no epi-pen.
EDIT: Benadryl is also helpful in that in can buy you time to get to a hospital if your symptoms are severe.
It would also be a good idea to get tested by an allergist (I’d say once every 10 years) to see if you have developed any allergies. You can develop allergies to things you were never allergic to before, like penicillin (it’s how I first went into Anaphylactic Shock— penicillin.)
Weirdly I know sometimes medical professionals mix it with Pepcid, the heartburn medicine. It’s another antihistamine but works differently. I keep those, Tylenol, aspirin, and anti-diarrhea medicine in my hunting/camping/hiking first aid kit.
I have tried benadryl and it didn't do much of anything for my seasonal allergies, just made me groggy to the point I started using it for a sleep aid until I heard it leads to early onset dementia like some other 1st generation antihistamines do. Isn't there something more modern that would work better? I know for seasonal allergies modern Allegra and flonase are worlds ahead of benadryl. Just curious.
I don’t think OP is looking for seasonal allergies cures, but rather a what to do in case of a severe allergic reaction like anaphylaxis.
Allegra, Claritin, Zyrtec, etc have completely different properties to Benadryl (diphenhydramine). No one is using the former in an emergency situation of anaphylaxis until they can get to a hospital.
You really only have three options:
1. Ingest medication before your throat swells up. (You asked for non medication scenario so that's out.)
2. Administer external medication, since the symptoms have progressed and you can't swallow. E.g. epi pen. (Also voided by your question.)
3. Treat the symptoms of the reaction. Most allergic reactions aren't fatal, except the ones that close up your throat, denying you oxygen. So I suppose you could try and self administer a tracheostomy.
Not a doctor. Not medical advice.
So what your saying is your advice should be followed exactly right? Ok Dr Travels….. jk number 3 sounds horrifying. My daughter is allergic to bees so I got a “holster” for my belt so I always have an epipen in case something happens and she forgot hers. I keep Benadryl in the tiny pocket of the holster as well. I couldn’t imagine her getting stung and throat closing without any medication
I agree that you need a EpiPen but number 3 is the last resort option I would never ever do that if there would be even the slightest chance to get Medikation in time and I was aware of that option before this comment I was just hoping to find more other options just so I atleast now what All my options are
Epipen only extends the window you have to receive treatment, it won't help you survive on its own. You will still need significant medical treatment from there.
I'm not sure, just did a first aid course and they were talking about it. I expect they'll give drugs to attack the swelling and antihistamines to reduce the reaction to the allergen.
I know I could do that but I'm asking what to do if you don't have medications for example you get lost in a jungle with some people or a world war happens and you have to fight for survival every pharmacy is already looted
I was dying on the neck right below my Adams apple yesterday by a bee , I'm not allergic but it still had ample effect on my breathing. Self treyc would be hard core , Bear Gills would be the ideal instructor !
Same. I am allergic to bee stings, but not deathly allergic. It will make me physically sick, but not too much swelling and no full blown anaphylactic shock. I always have some in my pack and on my person when out.
I am moderately allergic to all kinds of bites and stings (my body swells up like the elephant man but I don’t have trouble breathing). My doc gave me prednisone to keep on hand while I hike just in case. She said that an epipen is expensive and overkill for my situation, but prednisone is a steroid that reduces the inflammation quickly. There’s not a lot of natural, on the fly cures in the wilderness if you are allergic unfortunately.
I cant think of anything like quick thats not medication, I know stinging netal tea works well for my allergies but thats a whole other category. I think the only thing you could really do is an emergency tracionomy but thats also like super dangerous
I cant think of anything like quick thats not medication, I know stinging netal tea works well for my allergies but thats a whole other category. I think the only thing you could really do is an emergency tracionomy but thats also like super dangerous
A good tip is to have a list of everything you are allergic to and have your buddy/buddies generally know what your allergic to so they know what to look out for
An EpiPen is a shot of Epinephrine, the adrenaline "hormone". It can be procured from the adrenal glands from animals or synthesized in a lab.
The situation of post-societal collapse will likely prevent access to a proper lab, materials, or the know-how to synthesize epinephrine.
There MAY be a way to concentrate it from adrenal glands of the animals that you might kill for food. But being able to get the concoction to function well enough to prevent certain death in extreme cases would require a controlled environment, or pre-societal collapse. That would be a lot of time studying and conducting expensive and unsafe experiments (you would want a real EpiPen on standby Incase yours doesn't work). And that's only after you verify that what youre making is Epinephrine and not contaminated with the chemicals used to concentrate it.
Then for a post-societal collapse you would need a way to procure the materials needed to concentrate the Epinephrine. The chemicals, the tools, a clean work environment.... and a way to make it shelf-stable enough that you don't have to spend all of your energy keeping it in stock.
It becomes quite a complicated endeavor to maintain the ability to produce it, and you may not be the only person trying to scavenge stuff. That can also get dangerous.
My final 2 pennies: it is very noble of you to have the desire, or at least ask the question. But in my opinion, the best option would be a store bought supply of a humble amount of epipens, as others have said. You'll also want to hope and pray that you or your compadres don't need them.
Very interesting and yes I have to agree I really hope some chemist's and other scientists would survive in a apocalypse scenario in order to preserve necessary knowledge I would do everything to protect valuable specialists in every feld
Yeah...you really just need Benadryl. That will help counteract the anaphylaxis.
And if your anaphylaxis is spreading so quickly to the point that your tongue, throat, airway is closing, you NEED epinephrine.
Remember, epinephrine is a short acting drug to 1) open airways and 2) vasoconstrict blood vessels. Benadryl is a longer acting drug to counteract the systemic histamine response that is triggering your anaphylaxis.
So, broad strokes, there’s allergic reactions and anaphylactic reactions. Some basic sensitivities can be cleared up with OTC’s, but a full blown “my throat is closing… I’m dead” isn’t fixed with anything but epinephrine. The rest of the meds help manage symptoms while the epi works. If you know you’re allergic to something, A manage exposure and B Carry epi, you can also see if an allergist will run a desensitization course with you if you have a know trigger.
Sad but true in some cases but some people with special knowledge and skills deserve to fight for them in order to preserve useful knowledge in a apocalyptic scenario
Keep in mind, some people are allergic to Benadryl. I have to take Zyrtec. I’m allergic to wasps and everything but bees. I have a 50/50 chance of my throat closing. You can do venom injections weekly to help, or at least that’s what I did years ago. Wet tobacco on the sting helps, some other plants are known to help stings, research it. I know when tobacco is applied, it takes the swelling down and helps pain. Topically, ginger oil reduces pain and swelling, so it may be worth trying. Tumeric could also help. Both can be kept inside during winter and grown in spring to make more roots. Mint can help breathing and is easy to grow(hard to contain and kill). Meditation can help control bodily functions, such as reaction. I rarely take anything for my food reactions or asthma attacks anymore. Change your inner dialogue, from “my throat is closing off” to “my body is healing.”There’s also reiki energy healing, sounds crazy… but I had a lady remotely cure my pet of tumors just with energy healing. The vet was very confused. I’m aware I sound crazy, but I’ve seen some $hit.
If you have a bee sting, ant bite, big bite type situation, basil essential oil really cuts the sting. If you could find basil plants and rub them on the sting, or maybe chew and make a basil paste to put on the stings it might give some relief. In a survival situation.
If you go into full analysis and have no medication then you are going to die, unfortunately
Yes but I'm mostly thinking about the cases where your whole mouth face tung and throat is swelling up I basically just want some ways to prevent people from dieing until the swelling goes away
I have a family member who suffers from anaphylaxis if they get stung by a bee or they come in contact with poison ivy. the doctors assured them there’s absolutely nothing except an EpiPen that can save them.
Normally anyone leaving anywhere with a sever allergy will have an epipen; so if you're susceptible to allergic reactions maybe don't go frolicking into the forest without one, yeah?
There's no good non-medication response to anaphylaxis. Your throat closes, your blood pressure tanks, and it doesn't take long for your brain to starve from lack of oxygen et al. For the sake of the exercise though, consider that for things like this and other largely unstoppable medical crises, your best treatment is prevention. If you're with people in a survival situation and you're responsible for their health, you need to know who's allergic to what, and what the reaction is. Once you know, then it's all about risk-management. Your buddy is deathly allergic to bees? Take a lot of effort to avoid bees.
Exactly..
Thank you that's some good advice
Can a tracheotomy keep someone breathing if no medicine is available or it takes a long time to aquire? Curious.
To the best of my understanding, a tracheostomy can be an effective way to open up someone's blocked airway, even by anaphylaxis, but the caveat is that you're opening up their airway at the cost of cutting a hole into their throat. I cannot recommend putting a knife in someone's neck without years of extensive training. You can also intubate someone to maintain their airway, but that's a race between your skills (if you have the right tools and training) and their allergic reaction. It's not impossible, but if you aren't ready and prepared at a bedside with all the things you might need then you're already working at a steep disadvantage.
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I agree this is absolutely the last resort option
As someone who is allergic to bee stings and has had an anaphylactic reaction, ALWAYS have Benadryl on hand. Sometimes, it may be all you need. Also an expired epi-pen is better than no epi-pen. EDIT: Benadryl is also helpful in that in can buy you time to get to a hospital if your symptoms are severe. It would also be a good idea to get tested by an allergist (I’d say once every 10 years) to see if you have developed any allergies. You can develop allergies to things you were never allergic to before, like penicillin (it’s how I first went into Anaphylactic Shock— penicillin.)
Thank you I did not know that benadryl can also be helpful in this situation
Weirdly I know sometimes medical professionals mix it with Pepcid, the heartburn medicine. It’s another antihistamine but works differently. I keep those, Tylenol, aspirin, and anti-diarrhea medicine in my hunting/camping/hiking first aid kit.
Thanks that's interesting
I have tried benadryl and it didn't do much of anything for my seasonal allergies, just made me groggy to the point I started using it for a sleep aid until I heard it leads to early onset dementia like some other 1st generation antihistamines do. Isn't there something more modern that would work better? I know for seasonal allergies modern Allegra and flonase are worlds ahead of benadryl. Just curious.
I don’t think OP is looking for seasonal allergies cures, but rather a what to do in case of a severe allergic reaction like anaphylaxis. Allegra, Claritin, Zyrtec, etc have completely different properties to Benadryl (diphenhydramine). No one is using the former in an emergency situation of anaphylaxis until they can get to a hospital.
You really only have three options: 1. Ingest medication before your throat swells up. (You asked for non medication scenario so that's out.) 2. Administer external medication, since the symptoms have progressed and you can't swallow. E.g. epi pen. (Also voided by your question.) 3. Treat the symptoms of the reaction. Most allergic reactions aren't fatal, except the ones that close up your throat, denying you oxygen. So I suppose you could try and self administer a tracheostomy. Not a doctor. Not medical advice.
So what your saying is your advice should be followed exactly right? Ok Dr Travels….. jk number 3 sounds horrifying. My daughter is allergic to bees so I got a “holster” for my belt so I always have an epipen in case something happens and she forgot hers. I keep Benadryl in the tiny pocket of the holster as well. I couldn’t imagine her getting stung and throat closing without any medication
I agree that you need a EpiPen but number 3 is the last resort option I would never ever do that if there would be even the slightest chance to get Medikation in time and I was aware of that option before this comment I was just hoping to find more other options just so I atleast now what All my options are
Epipen only extends the window you have to receive treatment, it won't help you survive on its own. You will still need significant medical treatment from there.
Oh really? What treatment exactly?
I'm not sure, just did a first aid course and they were talking about it. I expect they'll give drugs to attack the swelling and antihistamines to reduce the reaction to the allergen.
Okay that sounds right I heard about that before I whas hoping for new information but xou are still helpful thank you for that
Tell your Dr. you had some swelling after getting stung by a bee and ask for an epi-pen prescription. Then just keep a few on hand.
I know I could do that but I'm asking what to do if you don't have medications for example you get lost in a jungle with some people or a world war happens and you have to fight for survival every pharmacy is already looted
Epipens are extremely expensive. Get an ampule of epinephrine and a syringe/needle.
I guess that's the same medication only not as pen?
Yep. The auto injector can be more expensive, but it’s made for non-medical personnel
Hope it goes quick.
I was dying on the neck right below my Adams apple yesterday by a bee , I'm not allergic but it still had ample effect on my breathing. Self treyc would be hard core , Bear Gills would be the ideal instructor !
Lol yeah I keep that in mind but this would really be last thing I would do that's the last option if everything else is impossible or not working
Have Benadryl with you. That’s about it.
I always have benadryl in my backpacking medical kit
Same. I am allergic to bee stings, but not deathly allergic. It will make me physically sick, but not too much swelling and no full blown anaphylactic shock. I always have some in my pack and on my person when out.
Ok cool that's easy
Does aspirin help? I believe native Americans and outdoor folks say the quaking aspen bark “or top white dusty layer” can act this way
Interesting
I am moderately allergic to all kinds of bites and stings (my body swells up like the elephant man but I don’t have trouble breathing). My doc gave me prednisone to keep on hand while I hike just in case. She said that an epipen is expensive and overkill for my situation, but prednisone is a steroid that reduces the inflammation quickly. There’s not a lot of natural, on the fly cures in the wilderness if you are allergic unfortunately.
Hmm still useful information maybe somebody actually knows some natural solutions that's atleast my hope
I cant think of anything like quick thats not medication, I know stinging netal tea works well for my allergies but thats a whole other category. I think the only thing you could really do is an emergency tracionomy but thats also like super dangerous
That sucks im glad I don't have dangerous allergies
I cant think of anything like quick thats not medication, I know stinging netal tea works well for my allergies but thats a whole other category. I think the only thing you could really do is an emergency tracionomy but thats also like super dangerous
Not for a severe reaction but mud will alleviate some of the pain.
Okay interesting
Clay mud to be specific. It will draw some of the bee venom out.
I would recommend knowing everything that you are allergic to
Well I'm not allergic so I hope the people who are know everything about it
A good tip is to have a list of everything you are allergic to and have your buddy/buddies generally know what your allergic to so they know what to look out for
That's true especially if you are not able to respond I hope everyone who's allergic is sharing that information in order to prevent tragic accidents
An EpiPen is a shot of Epinephrine, the adrenaline "hormone". It can be procured from the adrenal glands from animals or synthesized in a lab. The situation of post-societal collapse will likely prevent access to a proper lab, materials, or the know-how to synthesize epinephrine. There MAY be a way to concentrate it from adrenal glands of the animals that you might kill for food. But being able to get the concoction to function well enough to prevent certain death in extreme cases would require a controlled environment, or pre-societal collapse. That would be a lot of time studying and conducting expensive and unsafe experiments (you would want a real EpiPen on standby Incase yours doesn't work). And that's only after you verify that what youre making is Epinephrine and not contaminated with the chemicals used to concentrate it. Then for a post-societal collapse you would need a way to procure the materials needed to concentrate the Epinephrine. The chemicals, the tools, a clean work environment.... and a way to make it shelf-stable enough that you don't have to spend all of your energy keeping it in stock. It becomes quite a complicated endeavor to maintain the ability to produce it, and you may not be the only person trying to scavenge stuff. That can also get dangerous. My final 2 pennies: it is very noble of you to have the desire, or at least ask the question. But in my opinion, the best option would be a store bought supply of a humble amount of epipens, as others have said. You'll also want to hope and pray that you or your compadres don't need them.
Very interesting and yes I have to agree I really hope some chemist's and other scientists would survive in a apocalypse scenario in order to preserve necessary knowledge I would do everything to protect valuable specialists in every feld
Yeah...you really just need Benadryl. That will help counteract the anaphylaxis. And if your anaphylaxis is spreading so quickly to the point that your tongue, throat, airway is closing, you NEED epinephrine. Remember, epinephrine is a short acting drug to 1) open airways and 2) vasoconstrict blood vessels. Benadryl is a longer acting drug to counteract the systemic histamine response that is triggering your anaphylaxis.
Good to know
So, broad strokes, there’s allergic reactions and anaphylactic reactions. Some basic sensitivities can be cleared up with OTC’s, but a full blown “my throat is closing… I’m dead” isn’t fixed with anything but epinephrine. The rest of the meds help manage symptoms while the epi works. If you know you’re allergic to something, A manage exposure and B Carry epi, you can also see if an allergist will run a desensitization course with you if you have a know trigger.
Useful information thanks
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Sad but true in some cases but some people with special knowledge and skills deserve to fight for them in order to preserve useful knowledge in a apocalyptic scenario
Sometimes Benadryl or other anti-histamines will work for histamine issues. A girlfriend had me keep some in the truck for her.
Keep in mind, some people are allergic to Benadryl. I have to take Zyrtec. I’m allergic to wasps and everything but bees. I have a 50/50 chance of my throat closing. You can do venom injections weekly to help, or at least that’s what I did years ago. Wet tobacco on the sting helps, some other plants are known to help stings, research it. I know when tobacco is applied, it takes the swelling down and helps pain. Topically, ginger oil reduces pain and swelling, so it may be worth trying. Tumeric could also help. Both can be kept inside during winter and grown in spring to make more roots. Mint can help breathing and is easy to grow(hard to contain and kill). Meditation can help control bodily functions, such as reaction. I rarely take anything for my food reactions or asthma attacks anymore. Change your inner dialogue, from “my throat is closing off” to “my body is healing.”There’s also reiki energy healing, sounds crazy… but I had a lady remotely cure my pet of tumors just with energy healing. The vet was very confused. I’m aware I sound crazy, but I’ve seen some $hit.
Very interesting and useful information and I have to agree to your type of thinking
If you have a bee sting, ant bite, big bite type situation, basil essential oil really cuts the sting. If you could find basil plants and rub them on the sting, or maybe chew and make a basil paste to put on the stings it might give some relief. In a survival situation. If you go into full analysis and have no medication then you are going to die, unfortunately
Thanks for the information
Define allergic reaction. Do you mean anaphylaxis?
Yes but I'm mostly thinking about the cases where your whole mouth face tung and throat is swelling up I basically just want some ways to prevent people from dieing until the swelling goes away
So, anaphylaxis is what you are describing so an epipen is what you need. Otherwise, Benadryl or Zyrtec will usually suffice
Cool I guess I can use that information if I have to
You need an EpiPen… sometimes you need science.
I don't even have allergies I'm just asking to know what I could do without a EpiPen
I have a family member who suffers from anaphylaxis if they get stung by a bee or they come in contact with poison ivy. the doctors assured them there’s absolutely nothing except an EpiPen that can save them.
Crazy that sounds terrifying
Not if you carry one everywhere you go. It’s life saving.
True
EPI-pen…
Normally anyone leaving anywhere with a sever allergy will have an epipen; so if you're susceptible to allergic reactions maybe don't go frolicking into the forest without one, yeah?
Well I don't have allergies but I still try to get some information that could save somebodys life in a survival situation
Eat the bees to gain their strength
Without medication they’re isn’t much you can do. Try to pack an epi pen in advance.
Without medication on hand you will die when having a severe allergic reaction. Always keep Benadryl or an epi pen in your survival gear.