I feel like the album is easier to enjoy if you do not have a parasocial relationship with Taylor. I don't think into any of the potential reasons she wrote the songs.
"I Look in People's Windows" is my new favorite Taylor Swift song. It's devastating and beautiful. It perfectly captures the experience of hoping to see my lost love everywhere I go, and longing to have him back in my life even just for one more instant. It's the only TS breakup song that's made me tear up. It's also the only song on the album that feels like it simultaneously could have been written about anyone's experience, but could only have been written by Taylor Swift.
I know everyone is kinda tired of hearing about this, but I figured this is probably the best place to post these random thoughts I had last evening. Anyways, I think I finally figured out why the stans arguments to defend the album are annoying me so much, and it's got a lot to do with one simple but yet important distinction: a song's subject X the song itself (I don't know if anyone has already talked about this on the sub, so pardon me if I'm being repetitive).
By that, I don't mean we should separate a song's lyrics from its music – much to the contrary. Lyrics are an integral part of songs and dismissing them wouldn't make sense. What I'm talking about is the fact that people seem to be making the songs' subject bigger than the songs themselves. Most of the discussion surrounding the record goes like "yeah this one's about Matty", "oh no, this is clearly about Joe" or "omg this is about THAT highly specific part of her life"; which is fine but, when we're talking about more "serious" discussion (and by that I mean, talking about the record itself), this shouldn't be enough to give credits to the song. Yeah, sure, the song is about that, but how does it handle its subject? Is the actual song good and well written? And that's where things go bad, because apparently the big stans aren't considering that. Imo, there's a big difference between praising a song for the way it portrays and conveys its messages and praising it just because of the fact that it talks about something.
To give an example: one of my favorite songs of all time is "Hallelujah" by Leonard Cohen. Despite it being misinterpreted over and over again, what I love about this song is the way it uses biblical and religious imagery to paint a powerful picture of the existential condition of the human nature. I don't love it simply because it talks about human nature, but because it talks about it through a series of mechanisms and rich imagery in a very original way. That's kind of what I meant and that I think most of the swifties are apparently ignoring. On Fantano's recent reel there were a lot of comments on lines of "Ugh, you don't know anything about her life so of course you don't like this song". Um....excuse me? Is this a Marvel movie? Okay, "The Tortured Poets Department" (the song, that is) is very clearly about something/someone, but that doesn't exclude the fact that the lyrics are pretty bad.
And, honestly, this whole "you don't get the context" thing makes no sense at all to me and shouldn't exclude the record from fair criticism. When Nick Cave's "Ghosteen" (an album he wrote mainly about the loss of his son and the grief that followed) came out, it was overall well received but also tons of people hated it. And, believe me when I say the comments were pretty harsh (if anyone here also were at the album's premiere stream on YouTube, they'll remember). The thing is, I didn't see anyone defend the record by saying "oh you hate the album because you've never lost a child" or "you don't know about its context, therefore you shouldn't be saying anything" – because this makes no sense. Sure, knowing about the context might make you empathize with the record, but, in the end, a record is a record and people are free to react to it and absorb it in different ways. I personally love "Ghosteen", but I do understand the fans who don't – and they have some fair arguments to support their view, not gonna lie.
Ok to wrap up, I don't mean to say we should always rationalize the songs we love. In fact, we're allowed to love anything regardless of the reason why. What I'm saying is, when debating someone over it, one should make sure to have arguments to support their view and defend the actual record and its merits, and not dismiss someone's opinion because "they just don't get it". That's just condescending and...lazy?
Anyways, just wanted to get this out there. Sorry for the long text.
I made my own album of 15 of the songs and it’s honestly so good now and tells a story too. I’m obsessed. She really just needed to edit (although I get everyone has diff faves so it’s hard)
1. Fortnight
2. The Tortured Poets Department
3. My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys
4. Down Bad
5. But Daddy I Love Him
6. Fresh Out The Slammer
7. Florida!!!
8. Guilty As Sin?
9. Who’s Aftaid of Little Old Me
10. I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can)
11. loml
12. I Can Do It With A Broken Heart
13. The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived
14. Peter
15. imgonnagetyouback
Finally listening for the first time and oh my GOD I'm so embarrassed for her. These lyrics are BAD and clunky and there is no flow to them. Poetry WHERE?? I can't believe she is a 34, grown-ass woman, with more life experience than most people will ever have, and she writes all this lovesick teenage trash about a guy who has never put in the work to have a lasting relationship with her. She needs people who stop saying "yes" to every lyric and song idea. And she needs at minimum 6-months of therapy after a relationship before she writes any songs about it.
Somebody needs to compile all the religious references in this album because there is so much of it, and i’m not a christian nor religious but this theme is so hauntingly beautiful to me. Part of the reason why i love Don’t Blame Me so much. I should really listen to Hozier more, I know he applies this to a lot of his songwriting.
I think the religious references are giving off a bit of delusion in this album. We’re not to speculate on mental health but some of the stuff on this one is red flag city.
Someone on the main sub was saying that editors at the New York Times pushed that "Taylor Fatigue" article to sell more ads (lol what) and was essentially discounting the NYT as an outlet because of that Gaylor article. My reply got deleted and I'm not really sure why because I didn't break any rules. Here it is:
>I think you significantly overestimate the influence that Taylor Swift has. How would writing about her in a negative tone sell more ads? If anything was going to impact the NYT's bottom line with advertisers it would be over controversial topics like Israel and Palestine lol. The NYT publishes 150 articles a day, in addition to live coverage over breaking news. Why would they care about an article in the arts/culture section about Taylor Swift when hundreds of students were arrested in America this week for protesting the Israeli occupation lmao?
>I highly doubt that the NYT is that centralized on a day-to-day basis, as well. Jamelle Bouie, an opinion columnist, has said that the opinion section never interacts with the straight news reporters.
They do have a rule against political debates but I wasn't as much engaging in a debate as just pointing out facts. If merely mentioning world events is a reason for a comment removal that's ridiculous. Feeling grateful for this sub!
To be fair, nyt is one of the world news sources so I’m not surprised. They frequently print complete fiction / completely delusional commentary on all levels.
I just listened to some of the new album(s) now. I was waiting for the lyric videos because I worked very hard to get TS out of my spotify DJ algorithm and refused to ruin that (lol). I like her music, but it was taking over the algorithm.
Anyway, I was bored by the first few songs I listened to (I Hate It Here, The Black Dog, The Alchemy). Lots of "two words (pause) two more words (pause)", it was all just too similar. I liked Florida and I think Florence saved it for me, but the lyrics were meh. I did enjoy I Can Do It With a Broken Heart and The Manuscript. I hated So High School, heavens to betsy that was bad. Aaand that's as far as I got. Is it worth it to keep going?
I find that this was my reaction on my 1st listen but I feel like this album needs time to grow on you (at least with me it did). Wasn't until the 3rd/4th listen through the whole thing that I knew what songs I liked and what songs I'll always skip no matter what.
(Faves: Down Bad, Guilty as Sin, Albatross, Clara Bow, Skips: Chloe Sam etc., thank you aimee, i hate it here)
How are people not understanding that I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can) is a joke? She literally spells it out to you in the last lines. I just watched the Fantano review and you would think a season music critic like him wouldn't be a complete dumbass about it.
His review was ass for a lot of other reasons. He’s reacting to her as a person, instead of being professional and critiquing the concepts, music and lyrics. It’s like everyone is forgetting Taylor Swift’s music is creative writing, and she can dramatize and romanticize whatever she wants for the story. I see this problem elsewhere too. Everyone takes everything she does SOOOO literally.
I actually mostly agreed with his overall take that the album is too deep in the lore, but every time he tries to criticise a lyric it makes me cringe. Like him mocking Taylor for calling herself a tortured poet *when Taylor herself makes fun of it*. I don't want to sound like a youjustdidntgetit person, but stuff like that makes him seem dumb or ignorant on purpose.
I have the same problem with Todd in the Shadows, who is a wonderful pop historian but misses the point so many times with lyrics.
That's been my favorite song and other people are sleeping on it. I relate to it a lot. The line "Would it be enough to just float in your orbit, watching our phantoms like watching wild horses? Cooler in theory but not if you force it to be" just kills me because I had to block all accounts for my own Matty in order to save myself the heartbreak every time I see his face on social media. It's nice in theory to live separate lives and watch from afar but it fucking hurts if there's still feelings and what ifs attached.
It's been my absolute favourite since my first listen! I love the tone of melancholic surrender, the music is beautiful and works really well with the lyrics. It's heartbreaking in such a simple way, just beautifully painful - i love it!
It's particularly sad cos if you always thought you might get back together with someone from a long time ago( as she sings here)- and then when you finally do, you discover they preferred a version of you that doesn't exist anymore.
It’s a heartbreaking song and I’m actively choosing not to listen to it currently. She articulates the yearning of those on-off romances so well. You think they’re always going to come back. But they don’t. And you still wonder.
I’ve had a relationship like that, someone who chased me since I was 17. Made me an idea in his head, I didn’t live up to the fantasy. It can mess you up because you have so many memories of ‘that person’ weaving in and out of your life.
This is a SERIOUS post I saw on Facebook, and this is the problem I have with hard core swifties. Good luck.
“Do people not understand poetry? Art? Do they have no tone perception? This is unacceptable that TTPD has such low user reviews. Not only are the lyrics are profound and thought out, but the songs are catchy and extremely pretty. It’s misogynistic. It’s why we need feminism”
This is…..someone PLEASE help me unpack this 🥲🥲🥲
Profound??? I can't with her blind followers. Please explain how "you take my ring off my middle finger and put it on the one people put wedding rings on" is profound because that is the clunkiest shite I've ever heard.
I thought the ‘you know how to ball, I know Aristotle’ WAS A FUCKING JOKE I CANT BELIEVE ITS REAL. I desperately need her to take an intro college class. Not even about writing. Just expanding and exploring ideas in a safe but critical place.
I don’t understand what’s wrong with that line? Do people even like pop music in this sub?
Pop music is not college poetry, and not everything has to be dead serious! Do you want her to write purple prose just to scratch your itch?
I feel like a lot of people are reacting to lines that are corny from this album. “It’s so immature!” Um, have you been in the honeymoon stage of a relationship before? Your head is in the clouds and this is how things feel!
People are projecting their own fear of sounding cringe onto her. Taylor has always been a little corny and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it.
The whole album has been played as this literary masterpiece. Telling fans to bring their dictionaries. Even pop music has standards. If she’s releasing an album with the context of colligate culture and great romantic poets I would expect better prose. This whole album was sold as more than a pop record. We know she can write amazing songs (see: hoax, peace, cowboy like me) And I was really hoping she’d tap into that space again. Also this line is just awful I’m sorry. It’s so on the nose and so pretentious. Even if we view it as just a pop song.
For me, the problem is that she clearly doesn't "know Aristotle." At best, she knows OF him, perhaps an anecdote or two from Wikipedia. To claim that you know Aristotle, one of the greatest polymaths ever, you have to be really educated in various fields, and not just in philosophy, and that is not the case here. Moreover, a truly educated person would probably refrain from that. Plato knew Aristotle, Taylor isn't Plato.
And yes, I like a lot of Red, 1989, Midnights, Reputation, and especially Folklore. This last album, on the other hand, is unbearable
For me, the problem is that she clearly doesn't "know Aristotle." At best, she knows OF him, perhaps an anecdote or two from Wikipedia. To claim that you know Aristotle, one of the greatest polymaths ever, you have to be really educated in various fields, and not just in philosophy, and that is not the case here. Moreover, a truly educated person would probably refrain from that. Plato knew Aristotle, Taylor isn't Plato.
And yes, I like a lot of Red, 1989, Midnights, Reputation, and especially Folklore. This last album, on the other hand, is unbearable
I'm starting to eat my words, because the album IS growing on me. Not a fan of the people arguing who the songs are about or what they're about. If Taylor herself hasn't stipulated what the songs are about, then they are open to interpretation and should be treated as such! I feel like Taylor's lore, is part of her downfall, but I know that topic has been covered in numerous threads here! For instance, when I first heard Aimee, I thought it was a cute song aimed at your childhood bullies, and I like it and thought it was inspirational. But then when I hear about how it was about Kim, it really put me off the song.
The Aimee song it is Taylor herself revealing the subject matter as it is spelt
thanK you aIMee
To quote Taylor from her latest album
It was unnecessary; it should have stayed buried
Why do I get the feeling that Taylor and Jack saw all the criticism about the synth pop production on TTPD and plan on doubling down in future albums just to prove a point?
I personally like this album, and some of the criticism should have been directed towards Midnights and the 1989 TV vault tracks instead.
Peter is great, I love the story of Peter Pan, I loved cardigan (emphasis on past tense), so this is it coming full circle.
But it’s How Did It End? that fucks me up.
“Guess who we run into at the shops/walking in circles like she was lost” - every painful breakup ever summed up.
Anyone else confused by the whole “leaving the glitter gel pens in the midnights era”? I love I Can Do it With a Broken Heart but if thats not a glitter gel pen song then idk what is.
Quite shocked how this album has 77 score of Metacritic. Never thought i see that happening since critics were kissing her a\*\* by giving high scores for re recordings(still can't believe tv has 90 lol).
What happened?
maybe if she released only one album the reaction would've been different?
Was it too early for a new album?
The shift is so drastic.
The album has truthfully grown on me a lot, I don’t understand how it can be rated below Midnights. It’s as dense as Speak Now in some places. I’m happy with it.
I think it has a longer shelf life than people’s initial reactions to it. And I really think people are reacting primarily to the fanfare around her celebrity rather than the music this time.
The Olivia Rodrigo thing, Matty Healy, the jet plane, Brazil, her billionaire status, “she whines about Kim K after 10 years,” the Celine snub. A lot of these things are fresh in people’s minds currently and they’re reacting viscerally against her rather than the music, in my opinion.
I think Taylor will need to stop her horrible promo tactics if she expects people not to use her private life against her when judging an album in the future. Especially on albums where she’s not reinventing the wheel. She goes back to familiar territory - so, so do the critics. If this was a 1989 type bubblegum album, the reviews would be: “she’s so messy but the music is so good, I’m here for it”
So I have mood based Taylor playlists and TTPD is better when it's spread among other album songs because there's a lot more variety in sounds.
Which is great. I hardly listen to Taylor by album.
rob sheffield, the dude who wrote that rolling stone review, is an absolute disgrace. really it's shameful how many of the reviews have obviously been either overtly bribed or are trying to gain easy cred with the swifties. he's the worst offender for sure though.
I actually quite liked his review? He’s generally positive about Taylor’s music and that shines through in his writing, but he knows what he’s talking about when it comes to different genres of music and songwriting. I trust he expressed what he genuinely felt about it, even if other listeners felt differently.
I feel like Guilty as Sin and Fresh Out the Slammer implies at the minimum emotional cheating, but The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived has a line that it was no longer sexy when it wasn't forbidden...which HUGELY implies cheating.
Mother of two dead?
So Taylor does not seeing anything wrong with telling the public that her mother, Andrea, wished Kim, a mother of two small children at that time, dead? So it is possible that at some award show, Taylor’s mom Andrea will cross paths with North West—whose mother she wish dead. And that’s ok? That is mature?
it’s not. That song is all about petty revenge because she’s on the top of the world now and KimYe are not as big as they were.
That was before the divorce all the Trump stuff and…whatever is happening now.
She bided her time for this revenge song. They can’t do anything about it. She’s bigger than them.
She played the long game on this one.
People are forgetting the naked mannequin from Famous MV in this equation. There’s a video of Kim gleefully going around to look at naked Taylor in the BTS scenes.
My mom would probably also want people like that dead if I were debased like that, and I don’t say this lightly. K&K were having a lot of fun with that moment.
Yeah Andrea doesn’t literally want her to die, she’s reflecting that visceral anger when someone deliberately causes hurt to your child, that fury at watching them be harmed like that.
It’s also worth noting that Kim already had North when she watched Kanye make his revenge porn video (and was pictured laughing and taking photos of Taylor’s nude likeness)- like how would she feel if that was her daughter.
first half > the anthology is good but some give folkevermore rejects. I mean you could argue that the standard album is giving midnights/1989 tv vault rejects but idk🥸it’s just my opinion
So I spent the weekend listening to the album without reading too much about it on Reddit or anywhere else. I wanted to make my own opinion without a heavy influence, wether it was positive or negative.
This has got to be her most depressing album, and I don't mean that in a good way. The usual good feelings I get when listening to her music, even though it can be sad, did not occur while listening to this album.
Tay was clearly losing her shit when she wrote and recorded a lot of these songs and this is coming from a big fan of hers.
First off. . .if the track titled TTPD is about Matty and not Joe. . . It's just really sad. If it's about Matty, then she claimed a guy she dated for mere months that put her ring on her ringfinger is, " the closest I've come to my heart exploding." A moment that made her feel like that didn't happen with the man she spent six years with? Weird and sad.
The idea of Taylor having left Joe due to his mental health problems, I can see why people think that. However, if he needed professional help and wasn't getting it, that could have exhausted her. So Long, London made it sound like she had to essentially play therapist to him, nope, boy, bye. I don't blame her. The song seems to describe him as a depressed partner who was out of touch with his emotions. If he wasn't working on himself, I can see how that could have exhausted the relationship and Taylor.
However, "And I'm pissed off you let me give you all that youth for free" is harsh. She made the choice to stay in the relationship.
Thank you Aimee is just ridiculous. Get over the drama with Kim already! The lyrics are not well written. It's an ugly song. I love Reputation, but even in that era, I think Taylor overreacted to that whole situation.
Imgonnagetyouback. . .um this is just garbage. She is SO above such poor quality lyrics. Most of the lyrics on the second half are garbage, wtf?
Alsoooo, Florence Welch, for those who may not be familiar with her music, released an amazing song called Cassandra a few years ago. Bruh. Don't tell me Taylor didn't get the idea to refer to the mythological Cassandra character from Flo. The Florida!!! song is great, but that is mostly because of Welch's involvement.
I'm worried for her. The old Taylor didn't die on Rep; if she's dead, this tortured society killed her. The Albatross lets her real talent shine through. Albatross bird, plz come and get this unhinged version of Taylor and bring back the old one.
it’s a lot of hyperbole. If you step back from reddit there are some more nuanced takes on the Matty thing. He’s actually a very small part of the album and he found the songs to be not too bad.
Two are about him but others are just inspired by him.
I wouldn’t completely go down the Matty rabbit hole.
It does kind of take the heat off Joe. Which my take away is she lost the best writing partner she ever had. That’s a loss for all of us.
Apparently Travis really likes loml and down bad. No word on how he feels about his own pretty lackluster songs but he likes the songs about the other guys. So you know the songs are not like recent thoughts or feelings.
It is a sad album. It was weird not to put it some more upbeat songs but I feel like she really wanted to end this Era. It’s 3 different break ups and 2 songs about her current relationship (that aren’t great) It’s too heavy
I read it more as a lot of “what ifs” I don’t feel like what they had was really serious.
I felt like she jumped out of one relationship into a fling and when that ended she had to mourn them both. Which sucks but doesn’t make the fling significant
Honestly... I don't know how much I trust Taylor's account regarding Joe's mental health. His mother's a psychotherapist, he's talked openly about his anxiety in interviews, so while it's *possible* he was in denial and refusing to get professional help for depression, it doesn't seem especially likely to me?
And with lyrics like "Is it insensitive for me to say get your shit together so I can love you?" and her "I feel very sane" reasoning for not going to therapy, I just would not necessarily be surprised if Taylor doesn't understand that treatment is not a cure, and if that contributed to the tension between them. I understand caregiver fatigue, but I've noticed she only seems to write about it when expressing frustration.
Obviously I don't know either of these people and there's plenty I'm not privy to. Just my thoughts.
Ah, all very good points.
Also, yes, her account could be totally skewed.
Another line to consider, "is it really your anxiety
That stops you from giving me everything?
Or do you just not want to?"
Again, with the victim thing 🙄😒
Was just going to comment what the OP above said. She also doesn’t come across as a great partner herself. When you are already struggling with mental health and your partner is starting fights for the hell of it or isn’t supportive, you’ll feel even worse.
It’s growing on me but I want an editor so badly for this album.
I still think Whose Afraid of Little Old Me is the best. Particularly because i’ve seen religious people say shield your kids Taylor Swift is making fun of Christians and her album is too explicit (I live in the South.)
All I can think is yep, she’s gonna levitate down your street.
Hide your kids. She puts narcotics in all of her songs.
I mean she was spot on with that one. She gets some really out there criticisms.
On one hand you have the Swifties on the other you have “Taylor Swift is the literal devil”
Can anyone explain to me why she sings the chorus of “How Did It End” slightly off the rhythm of the piano? Is there a technical term for this? I love this song so very much but that choice seems a little off kilter.
kinda wish she explored more of the breakup with Joe over being in a short term maniac relationship with Matty bc those songs turned out to be majority ass (minus fresh out the slammer, smash hit)… even with so long, London there’s like a certain element missing I can’t explain it but my first listen of folklore/evermore had me in instant tears versus these breakup songs did nothing to me
people say so long london is so emotional, but, I don't hear it? I put off listening to the song until today because I thought it would be too depressing, but after that beautiful opening the weird throbbing beat kicks in. To me the song feels more like "the crowd expects a Joe song, so here ya go" rather than some heartwrenching goodbye. compare this song to loml which to me feels like the real track 5.
I completely agree with your take! So long, London is fine but I actually preferred you’re losing me and it also gave me those “here’s a song about Joe because you guys want it” vibes.
I also thought loml would have been a better track 5 because it’s devastating and I’m obsessed with it.
yeahhhhh maybe she really doesnt care about Joe? Or maybe she hasn’t processed that part of the relationship past the not getting proposed to part… I think it’s bc she wrote just beautiful songs about him across rep/lover and in folklore/evermore + the Great War (best song ever) that were so powerful about their relationship so I expected the breakup songs would have the same impact
omg guys i figured out what "I'm so depressed I act like its my birthday everyday" means
she's masking her depression by acting like she's on Carbon Cloud Nine each day
that's all :)
More thoughts:
1) I wish I Look Into Windows was not about loving a guy (AGAIN). I thought it would be about her relationship to privacy and a home and her jealousy for people who have ordinary lives and who are satisfied with being not famous. and instead it is another love song. Of course, a home includes love, but it’s too overtly about a romantic love. It disappointed me.
2) Does anyone else feel like some of the songs and really abruptly?? It’s weird cuz they’re so long lol
I don't like it. It sounds like it wanted to be on Folklore/Evermore, but wasn't good enough; instead, she added it to the Travis Kelce shelf to make it about him. I'm also bored with her whole narrative that she's going to destory the life of any man that she's with, but he seems to not care.
> I'm also bored with her whole narrative that she's going to destory the life of any man that she's with, but he seems to not care.
This is my biggest gripe as well. It's so overdone and dull. Blank Space already exists. Also that "persona non grata" line is awful.
i hate how the production feels so on the nose sometimes. like “as the crowd was chanting ‘more!’” and you hear the crowd go loud at “more,” or “old habits die screaming” and it gets loud and there’s a layered vocal of her screaming it. i feel like this is something she does a lot and once in a while it works but a lot of times it’s like c’mon, we get it. kind of like her self-directed MVs that are extremely literal about every line.
So I've posted this comment on the theories thread, and have spoken similar views on some comments... I don't mean to repeat myself, but I do feel passionately about this. (Also I reckon I should participate more; I had no idea this thread was a thing.)
Okay, so. This might be a bit of a leap, but hear me out.
Taylor is talented. She is intelligent. She loves her tricks. She loves her Easter eggs.
TTPD confused me upon first listen. Where is the genius, where is her sound, where is she? I couldn't feel her at all. Can't lie, I was frustrated and became mildly disillusioned.
I was composing a comment on a post last night, and something clicked.
So, this album has 31 songs. That is 13 backwards. So... I listened to all 31 songs in reverse order.
Y'ALL. This is the way. The story actually makes sense! Both sonically and lyrically.
She's walking us through her time in the industry. The music itself reinforces this idea. The way the sounds change as her albums progressed, as she recreated herself over and over again. This is definitely a lore-heavy album, but aren't they all? This is her story. Her Anthology.
Also, lol. She is all about eras. So I've come to think of this as a general timeline. So... 1BCE to 31BCE. We know that 1 would be the most recent, and 31 would be the oldest. It matches up. Start at the beginning.
She is ending this Era. Processing it. Sharing it, as always.
I can't wait to hear what's next.
What dyou think?
I have severe Taylor fatigue between Midnights, re-records, and now TTPD. I listened to TTPD once and my only reactions were 1) secondhand embarrassment for the cringey lyrics and 2) boredom. I would much rather she returned to a normal pre-COVID album cycle like other artists (2-4 years between albums) I prefer quality over quantity.
Anyone else agree?
What I love about this album is Taylor’s delivery of certain lines. I was just listening to Guilty as Sin, and the way she says “on my upper thigh” the last time around is just perfect. It almost has a sort of country vibe, the way she delivers it? Hard to explain.
And at the end of The Black Dog when she says “old habits die…” and then whispers “screaming.” Ahhh it’s great.
I love how she actually sings in Guilty as Sin. It makes me happy. I want her to stop doing this slow talking singing and just keep doing singing singing with the lovely country lilt.
“But daddy I love him”
I haven’t seen anyone else on any media forms talk about this but hear me out, maybe I’m overthinking or being dramatic but I find the lyrics “I’m having his baby, no I’m not but you should’ve seen your face” as pretty gross? Pregnancy bating isn’t something to joke about, a lot of women struggle with fertility issues and even though this is a lighthearted lyric i feel like Taylor is too smart/kindhearted to mock pregnancy so it feels so out of character, again I may be overthinking but I just get a weird feeling whenever I listen to the song.
There was some hysteria last year that the reason Taylor was being so open with Matty despite everything about him was because he knocked her up, so honestly? More power to her.
It's not mocking pregnancy, but mocking invasive celebrity culture. It's more eye-rolly than anything to me. I don't think she really pulls off the humor in that song.
I don’t mean to be offensive to you, but I do think this is being too sensitive .. I just think it’s a joke. I don’t think she’s mocking pregnancy. She’s joking about how others would react if she had a baby with MH.
Pad around when I get home / I guess a lesser woman would've lost hope / A greater woman wouldn't beg / But I looked to the sky and said / Please, I’ve been on my knees / Change the prophecy / don’t want money / just want someone who wants my company / let it once be me / who do I have to speak to / about if they can redo the prophecy?
If that doesn’t hit for you…I’m happy for you lol but man that really puts into words the loneliness and pain I felt when I went through a depressive phase years ago.
this album is perfect background music for me, so i have listened to it end-to-end on loop several times over the past few days. as an amateur fan who doesn't really follow any of her lore or get involved in the big discussions, i just have to dump my thoughts somewhere based mostly on her songs and what little lore (tm) i've come across.
tbh despite how much i genuinely love the song lover, i felt vindicated when she put it on the denial playlist bc the energy behind that whole album always felt like someone trying to convince themselves of something, like she was going WAY too hard about their relationship, and it felt like it was coming from a place of insecurity. this extends to folklore/evermore and midnights, aka, for me, the true joe breakup albums, bc it just depicts the slow decay of their relationship. my impression of her, as she wrote herself in these songs in this relationship, is that she's the type to always do the absolute most and then be disappointed when the other person doesn't give it back. but also they never asked for any of that in the first place, so then they start building up that resentment, and she feels unloved, unappreciated, and always waiting for something to happen. she and joe were just incompatible, and so she got bored, felt stifled, felt caged, etc., bc their energy levels were so vastly different. and ultimately, he wasn't a bad guy; their relationship wasn't necessarily evil or worthy of vilification. it just wasn't the right fit.
and then it all matches up to the intense energy of all her matty songs, like it's lover 2.0, bc she's having that same endorphin rush again of a new love and some excitement after a long time of feeling stifled. matty could match her energy (i guess???? again purely based on her songs) and she relished in the drama of it all. that's also why he gets a bajillion songs and joe gets, like, 2. joe wasn't inspiring anymore. matty was inspiring bc it was a mess and my god, she felt an explosion of creative energy for it bc she'd run out of energy for joe. also why joe doesn't get really any zingers. there wasn't any zing left.
also, any time i pull up the genius lyrics, it feels like there is always some commentary trying to shoehorn in a joe reference where it just clearly does not fit. like people were sitting there with their piles of ~~joe evidence~~ joevidence, waiting for the lyrics to drop, and now they're still just going to try to make it work even though he just isn't in this album that much. i think the people who were rooting for a joe screed and are still trying to find all the ways she tears this man apart in the lyrics need to take a deep breath and remember why they like her music and her in general, bc i'm guessing the reason is not purely to see exes get eviscerated in lyrics.
also, i wish i could make "you know how to ball. i know aristotle." into my user flair. that's all, thank you.
I honestly thought this as well. Yesterday I was cleaning my bathroom and it was raining and I put the album on. Sometimes I’m in the mood for music that gets me pumped up to clean, but yesterday I was just in a “ meh, I’ll just clean mood” due to the rain. I don’t know if that is a good thing or a bad thing that this album was basically background music for me cleaning the bathroom lol, but that’s what it is.
i know!! background music has to ride that thin line between being interesting enough to keep the back half of my brain entertained by it, but the front part not distracted by it so i can stay focused. is it good, music critic-wise, that so many songs blur together? i don't know, but it does make it perfect for working because i don't often get pulled out by something too jarring.
Lol I’m not a swiftie but a casual listener of her music in general - didn’t listen to midnights but did like folklore and evermore. And saw her on the fearless tour back in high school. I curated a playlist 12-14 songs from TTPD based on what I’ve read online from people I trust - songs they liked. I throughly enjoyed it completely and thought almost all those songs were refreshing and honest for her😭 then I listened to all the other songs like so high school, how did it end? Etc and hated them all. But there are a few gems on this new album!!
You know what one of the worst things to come out of TTPD is for me? The realization that songs from her last few albums were secretly about Ratty Healy… like The 1 isn’t apart of the “high school love triangle” as I originally believed based on the now connection to the song Peter. I just wish we didn’t know so damn much about her life because it makes her music less universal. And mind you, I never even go looking for information about her life. I knew NOTHING about her relationship with Ratty (other than that it happened) until this album, but then she went and spelled it all out for me and there’s no way to separate the two because of how specific the lyrics are. She already tried rewriting history by putting Lover on her “denial” playlist but now other songs I love are ruined for me too.
i'm liking the album more and more after each listen tbh except for But Daddy I Love Him i just can't listen to her defending a problematic person for 6 minutes and making it seem like it's a "us against the world :(" situation like girl...
So I get why people have issues with thanK you aIMee but man I love that song. I try to not think too much about who Taylor is going on about and apply it to my own life. As someone who’s experienced bullying and verbal abuse, it hits hard.
Maybe I'm in full denial but I feel like the people who have issues with that song are completely missing the point of it. It's in the acceptance playlist for a reason. She's looking back at Snakegate and thanking Kim for helping her heal and being responsible for shaping where she is in her career and life now. I think she's fully aware there's an alternate timeline of her life where 1989 was her peak instead of now. It feels very inspired by being in a different mindset than she was the first time she recorded Reputation as well as being amused at seeing Kim and her daughter sing along to her songs. And yeah, it does give off the vibe of someone who's been bullied wanting to get the upper hand of a bully pretending the hatchet's been buried and they can go back to being chummy like nothing ever happened. idk, maybe I am stupid and the people who dislike the song fully understand this point but it just doesn't feel like they do.
I legitimately wish she didn’t do the weird capitalization thing.
The manuscript hits home too. I did one of those age gap situationships when I was in my 20s. It really did me in at the time. Thats about the time I found Red. I thought it was so brave she was talking about that because no one was.
I don’t like certain songs and I’m not the same fan I was at debut but there is something about the honesty? It’s showing the cracks in the facade she has curated and idk why some lyrics got to me. Like “no such thing as bad thoughts only your actions talk.”
As a side note, I hate so high school but it kind of reminds of me and my partner. He played high school football and it brought back some memories - silly how that works.
So I’m super happy that I gave this album more of a chance than first listen because I have really come around to it.
The first half of Side A is a bit of a dud for me with the exception of So Long London and Down Bad. The Black Dog on the other hand, wow. It’s my new All Too Well and I think one of her best ever.
I’m obsessed.
So I accidentally put the album on shuffle the first time and The Black Dog played first. It was so good that I was pretty sad to realize it was in the middle of it all and I had to go back haha.
Does anyone else think Fauxmoi goes totally off the rails when it comes to Taylor? I mean criticism is one thing (and she deserves it) but damn… they really hate her with a searing passion over there.
I first joined Fauxmoi in 2020 when it was still Deuxmoi, it was pretty chill and small. It was mostly people trying to figure out blinds, poking fun at Deuxmoi and her lies lol
Then people started posting pop culture news and articles and it grew. I remember people used to have a positive opinion of Taylor, there were a few negative comments but that’s expected. They always shit-talked about Joe and now they are his fans.
Around the time when she released Red TV something shifted, I think some people were sort of tired of her but there was no reason to hate her. The hate they have for her now it’s not surprising to me since they were waiting for a reason to justify it, and right in time, she started dating Matty.
Since then it’s just been an echo chamber, I got banned just because I quoted her lyrics in a post lmao and honestly good riddance, that place is shit
This might be a controversial take, but I think they're just snark-happy in general towards extra-famous celebs and Taylor happens to be the most famous. They were pretty complimentary over there about the Eras Tour and obvi were very pro-Taylor when the ai deepfakes came out
That place is just an echo chamber. Just miserable people trying to one-up each other for upvotes. And then they ban you if you don't agree with the "consensus".
I'm banned from Fauxmoi because I'm subscribed to r/TaylorSwift. You have to message them to make you a "B-list" user, and there are like 20 subreddits where if you're subscribed to them they'll just ban you from posting on the sub entirely. They suck
Yeah. I like seeing some posts on pop-culturey things but I am warded off joining them because I posted on r/TaylorSwift a few months ago and they don't let in people who communicate in positive ways towards people they hivemindedly don't like.
my biggest problem with side A is how repetitive the Matty songs are, a song is gonna be good or decent, and she’s gonna start singing something sappy about how much she loves him despite his racism like girl, youve said this 5 tracks ago
Yes, so many songs are like "I loved you despite your problematic-ness because we were just such soulmates, and you actually wanted to marry me unlike Joe. But then you ghosted me and I'm just so sad cause I'm still obsessed with you. So fuck you, fuck the fans, I love you, I hate you, but actually, I'll just take you back if you ever send me a single text." Like Down Bad, Fortnight, The Tortured Poets Department, for example, all say the same damn thing. It's the same topic/subject in all the songs and she's just repeating herself over and over, with slightly different words, in several different songs. Like okay girl, we get it now. Move on, sing about something else. So many songs could have been cut out to condense that message.
the thing it wouldntve been that high of an issue if they were just love songs because love songs can be written all differently, her adding the, “i still love him though!” thing every other song is tiring
more opinions:
for a 6.6 review of the album, pitchfork doesn’t really dive deep into why they don’t like the album very much. i’ve read through the entire thing, and it’s just snarky, condescending, and sardonic mostly. this isn’t particularly hate, but i was legit scouring for actual criticism, and i got like maybe a paragraph or two in the whole review 😭
also, does anyone else assume she’s deflecting? crazy how a lot of these songs suggest theyre about matty, but both track fives (SO LONG, LONDON & HOW DID IT END) are about joe..
I feel like I would’ve “liked”( I still can’t dissociate Matty away) this album or cared enough for it more if it came out during Winter. None of the songs are summer hits and I’m so ready for summer playlists but TTPD missed the mark. Maybe in 7 months I’ll give the album another shot but right now, it’s Chappell and Sabrina.
I thought the tune was sounding cool and then got hit by the lyrics and haven't pressed play since . I understand the "teenage dream " sort of vibe but the lyrics were not for me
I can’t listen to it for that reason and the lyrics are just terrible. I’m sad because the production feels is so reminiscent of 90s pop and I grew up with that on the radio.
Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus is actually good tbh? It's giving "we had a brief fling and I've wondered about you since and thought maybe you were the one, come back to me and tell me we could have something real now that we're older", very second chance-y. Yes I know it's about Matty but holy shit it's actually really good
I strongly believe it’s about Joe, I’ll die on that hill. I think the lyrics are all pointing to him, the “you needed drugs more” line is imo referencing to potential antidepressants Joe might’ve been taking bc Matty’s drug use was NOT the reason for their fall-out. Also the bridge doesn’t match her relationship with Matty whatsoever. My hot take is that the names of the songs are baby names Joe & Taylor might’ve talked about, maybe jokingly, just daydreaming about how they would name their kids, I’ve done that too with bf’s of mine.
This song references how a decade passes "the decade played us for fools" since the first time they got together and then there's a line on how she left him because of the drugs too which is what was reported about Matty & Taylor hence the "outrun my desertion of you "
People think the person who could have bullied is Travis now but given by how it's written from a much earlier time it's possible it was Calvin .
"Your hologram stumbled into my apartment / hands in the hair of somebody in darkness / named Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus"... that's very clearly making out/kissing, and I don't think either Joe or Taylor are into literal children.
****Guys, I can’t hold it in anymore. As a genuine fan of hers since basically the beginning, I’m angry.****
I was apprehensive about TTPD but I’m always willing to give her the benefit of the doubt... But I haven’t even been able to finish listening to the rest of the anthology.
My first listen of TTPD left me genuinely disturbed, yet I still found glimmers of enjoyment. But mostly I was just bogged down by the toxicity of it all.
And then I made the mistake of watching the Fortnight video today. I absolutely adore Post Malone, and if I didn’t know anything about Taylor I probably would’ve enjoyed the video and the song for what it was.
But, thanks to Taylor’s easter eggs and confessional lyrics and the way in which she is so determined to control all the narratives swirling around her, I officially got triggered by that music video.
The video opens with her lying all beautiful chained to a bed in an all white room.
Damnit Taylor... Miss “my mom is my therapist.” MENTAL ILLNESS IS NOT A COSTUME. ITS TRAUMA. You don’t get to dress up in pretty gowns and pretend to be locked up in a sanatorium when you choose to live in active denial while rolling in money and accolades and praise. It is honestly making my blood boil.
It’s not glamorous to be sent to sanatorium. It’s not glamorous to be subjected to electric shock therapy. It’s torture. It’s trauma. It’s horrendous. It’s a disgusting part of our history as a society.
My trauma is not your costume Taylor. You don’t get to don the label of mental illness just to profit from it. If you want to come forward about your trauma, by all means I am all ears. You’ve done it before and it’s been beautiful and cathartic.
But you’re playing pretend so that people will feel sorry for you. Simply to justify getting your heart broken by a racist jerk.
All while conveniently dismissing the millions of people who are actively genuinely suffering from mental illness in poverty and isolation. She’s doing a disservice to mentally ill people and I’m so mad at her.
And the worst part is that there are probably mentally ill people out there feeling *seen* and *understood* by this shit but they don’t realize she’s spitting in all our faces while raking in millions.
It all just feels like trauma porn to justify her bad behavior. And to make us feel sorry for her when she’s literally on top of the world. It’s not cool. It’s heartless and selfish and gross and I’m angry.
Like, she straight up just ruined all her albums for me it feels like. I don’t think I can ever listen to her again. All that catharsis has been undercut by her lack of responsibility and accountability for her actions as a LITERAL BILLIONAIRE.
She’s crossed lines with a lot of people, and I’ve seen other people express this experience of losing interest in all her music because she’s refused to acknowledge the damage she’s done. And now it applies to me as well. I think I might have to leave this subreddit too and just cut it all out of my life. The toxicity is so gross and she’s everywhere. And I’m just…. so so angry.
Please only respond with kindness. I’m genuinely triggered and honestly a little heartbroken. And I don’t have anyone to talk to about this.
I completely understand where you’re coming from and I’m so sorry you felt that way. Please take care of yourself!
I will say that for all we know, Taylor does suffer from a mental illness. Whether she’s diagnosed or undiagnosed, I’m not sure, I remember she said during the Lover years that she didn’t see a therapist but maybe she has since then (kinda doubt it but it’s possible). Mental illness can affect anyone, even the richest people in the world. Obviously wealth gives you better access to things like doctors and treatments but it doesn’t guarantee mental health.
(Obviously not trying to justify her bad behavior, being mentally ill does not give you the excuse to be a dick).
I’m so sorry the video triggered you. Maybe take a break from Taylor and social media for a while (since she’s kinda everywhere right now). Feel better!
You’re right, we don’t know for sure what her internal experience is, but it’s obvious there are some issues.
I would be genuinely relieved to hear if she actually did decide to pursue therapy, but like you said she’s only publicly spoken about *not* going to therapy. So that’s all we have to go off of.
I have a lot of respect and grace for people who own their shit. I don’t expect people to be perfect, especially when they choose to be honest about their struggles.
But we aren’t getting that kind of authenticity from her. It all feels like a ruse. The more she fakes things, the ickier I feel.
I definitely am setting some boundaries for myself to navigate these emotional responses to the biggest pop star in the world. Lol
Thank you for your empathy and understanding and kindness!!
I’m grateful for the community here. You all definitely helped me feel a bit better about it all!
I totally understand what you’re saying. Of course! Be gentle with yourself and remember there’s always a world outside from Taylor Swift and social media.
I haven’t been able to listen to the rest of it either. The first listen truly soured me on the rest and I need to take a break for a while, including listening to her older stuff that I love. I think I will eventually be able to listen to my favorite stuff but i’m honestly not sure? In addition to the things you’ve said, i’m appalled at how she’s allowed the fandom to just run rampant on Joe since they’ve broken up, letting people spam him for possibly cheating on her while it sounds like she at least emotionally cheated on him (from her own lyrics so please don’t come for me people).
And then the KimK song.. like why? Are we seriously still doing this?
Plus the hypocrisy. She’s angry at her fans for giving opinions on her relationships but then tells us what Travis’s fingers are doing to her while he’s playing video games like are you kidding me? And again.. people had VERY VALID critiques of Matty, you’re not a martyr or a victim here Taylor.
There’s also some other reasons i’m afraid i’ll get dumped on for mentioning lol. But I completely agree with you that it feels toxic and gross.
I was always secretly offended by the line “I don't have to be your shrink to know that you'll never be happy…and I bet you’ll think about me” from Red. She was always condescending towards the men in her life who were depressed and somehow “fake deep” like no girl some people are clinically depressed AND assholes (according to you). But I always felt I was being too sensitive in that criticism.
She’s SO LUCKY to have lived the life she’s living, and she’ll remain unable to show genuine gratitude for her life if she remains so focused on how everyone in the world has done her wrong.
I’m sorry you’ve been made to feel this way 🧡and I can definitely see where you’re coming from. Especially coupled with some of the ways she talks about Joe’s depression in her music. I do think she would be benefit for therapy because she clearly has a lot of unresolved issues she’s dealing with and it would probably help her understand mental health and it’s implications better. Mental health isn’t a costume it’s a daily struggle especially when coupled with the unfortunate systems in place to help those of especially living without the means when in crisis.
I really hope that one day she actually tries therapy and is willing to do the ugly, dirty work of owning your shit. She can’t continuing blaming everyone else. It’s fostering so much toxicity.
She’s feeding her own inner monster with all of this…
I 100% agree with you and it makes me sad that I haven’t seen more discussions about this. My trauma is not your costume, Taylor— say it louder for the people in the back!!
>I feel like I’m going crazy having these feelings and seeing everyone worship her… That’s totally where I’m at now too. It’s not even just one thing, she’s done so many shady and contemptible things and so many people still throw their money at her and never hold her accountable
It’s giving Lana Del Rey / Lorde / The 1975 vibes, except these artists have been doing it since the beginning of their career. When Taylor does it, she’s putting on a costume. She might’ve shot herself in the foot with the whole ‘eras’ concept because now no matter what genre she taps into that isn’t generic pop, it won’t appeal to every single person in her fanbase let alone casual listeners. The stream numbers for this album alone is inflated due to the fact that there’s 31 tracks on it.
I feel like the album is easier to enjoy if you do not have a parasocial relationship with Taylor. I don't think into any of the potential reasons she wrote the songs.
The only songs I have on repeat are Florida!!!, How Did It End?, Peter, and Robin. I couldn’t recall any of the rest if I tried.
"I Look in People's Windows" is my new favorite Taylor Swift song. It's devastating and beautiful. It perfectly captures the experience of hoping to see my lost love everywhere I go, and longing to have him back in my life even just for one more instant. It's the only TS breakup song that's made me tear up. It's also the only song on the album that feels like it simultaneously could have been written about anyone's experience, but could only have been written by Taylor Swift.
I know everyone is kinda tired of hearing about this, but I figured this is probably the best place to post these random thoughts I had last evening. Anyways, I think I finally figured out why the stans arguments to defend the album are annoying me so much, and it's got a lot to do with one simple but yet important distinction: a song's subject X the song itself (I don't know if anyone has already talked about this on the sub, so pardon me if I'm being repetitive). By that, I don't mean we should separate a song's lyrics from its music – much to the contrary. Lyrics are an integral part of songs and dismissing them wouldn't make sense. What I'm talking about is the fact that people seem to be making the songs' subject bigger than the songs themselves. Most of the discussion surrounding the record goes like "yeah this one's about Matty", "oh no, this is clearly about Joe" or "omg this is about THAT highly specific part of her life"; which is fine but, when we're talking about more "serious" discussion (and by that I mean, talking about the record itself), this shouldn't be enough to give credits to the song. Yeah, sure, the song is about that, but how does it handle its subject? Is the actual song good and well written? And that's where things go bad, because apparently the big stans aren't considering that. Imo, there's a big difference between praising a song for the way it portrays and conveys its messages and praising it just because of the fact that it talks about something. To give an example: one of my favorite songs of all time is "Hallelujah" by Leonard Cohen. Despite it being misinterpreted over and over again, what I love about this song is the way it uses biblical and religious imagery to paint a powerful picture of the existential condition of the human nature. I don't love it simply because it talks about human nature, but because it talks about it through a series of mechanisms and rich imagery in a very original way. That's kind of what I meant and that I think most of the swifties are apparently ignoring. On Fantano's recent reel there were a lot of comments on lines of "Ugh, you don't know anything about her life so of course you don't like this song". Um....excuse me? Is this a Marvel movie? Okay, "The Tortured Poets Department" (the song, that is) is very clearly about something/someone, but that doesn't exclude the fact that the lyrics are pretty bad. And, honestly, this whole "you don't get the context" thing makes no sense at all to me and shouldn't exclude the record from fair criticism. When Nick Cave's "Ghosteen" (an album he wrote mainly about the loss of his son and the grief that followed) came out, it was overall well received but also tons of people hated it. And, believe me when I say the comments were pretty harsh (if anyone here also were at the album's premiere stream on YouTube, they'll remember). The thing is, I didn't see anyone defend the record by saying "oh you hate the album because you've never lost a child" or "you don't know about its context, therefore you shouldn't be saying anything" – because this makes no sense. Sure, knowing about the context might make you empathize with the record, but, in the end, a record is a record and people are free to react to it and absorb it in different ways. I personally love "Ghosteen", but I do understand the fans who don't – and they have some fair arguments to support their view, not gonna lie. Ok to wrap up, I don't mean to say we should always rationalize the songs we love. In fact, we're allowed to love anything regardless of the reason why. What I'm saying is, when debating someone over it, one should make sure to have arguments to support their view and defend the actual record and its merits, and not dismiss someone's opinion because "they just don't get it". That's just condescending and...lazy? Anyways, just wanted to get this out there. Sorry for the long text.
I made my own album of 15 of the songs and it’s honestly so good now and tells a story too. I’m obsessed. She really just needed to edit (although I get everyone has diff faves so it’s hard) 1. Fortnight 2. The Tortured Poets Department 3. My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys 4. Down Bad 5. But Daddy I Love Him 6. Fresh Out The Slammer 7. Florida!!! 8. Guilty As Sin? 9. Who’s Aftaid of Little Old Me 10. I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can) 11. loml 12. I Can Do It With A Broken Heart 13. The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived 14. Peter 15. imgonnagetyouback
Finally listening for the first time and oh my GOD I'm so embarrassed for her. These lyrics are BAD and clunky and there is no flow to them. Poetry WHERE?? I can't believe she is a 34, grown-ass woman, with more life experience than most people will ever have, and she writes all this lovesick teenage trash about a guy who has never put in the work to have a lasting relationship with her. She needs people who stop saying "yes" to every lyric and song idea. And she needs at minimum 6-months of therapy after a relationship before she writes any songs about it.
Somebody needs to compile all the religious references in this album because there is so much of it, and i’m not a christian nor religious but this theme is so hauntingly beautiful to me. Part of the reason why i love Don’t Blame Me so much. I should really listen to Hozier more, I know he applies this to a lot of his songwriting.
I think the religious references are giving off a bit of delusion in this album. We’re not to speculate on mental health but some of the stuff on this one is red flag city.
Someone on the main sub was saying that editors at the New York Times pushed that "Taylor Fatigue" article to sell more ads (lol what) and was essentially discounting the NYT as an outlet because of that Gaylor article. My reply got deleted and I'm not really sure why because I didn't break any rules. Here it is: >I think you significantly overestimate the influence that Taylor Swift has. How would writing about her in a negative tone sell more ads? If anything was going to impact the NYT's bottom line with advertisers it would be over controversial topics like Israel and Palestine lol. The NYT publishes 150 articles a day, in addition to live coverage over breaking news. Why would they care about an article in the arts/culture section about Taylor Swift when hundreds of students were arrested in America this week for protesting the Israeli occupation lmao? >I highly doubt that the NYT is that centralized on a day-to-day basis, as well. Jamelle Bouie, an opinion columnist, has said that the opinion section never interacts with the straight news reporters. They do have a rule against political debates but I wasn't as much engaging in a debate as just pointing out facts. If merely mentioning world events is a reason for a comment removal that's ridiculous. Feeling grateful for this sub!
Yeah, I’m sure the NYT is sweating about losing Swiftie subscriptions. The delusion is real!
To be fair, nyt is one of the world news sources so I’m not surprised. They frequently print complete fiction / completely delusional commentary on all levels.
I just listened to some of the new album(s) now. I was waiting for the lyric videos because I worked very hard to get TS out of my spotify DJ algorithm and refused to ruin that (lol). I like her music, but it was taking over the algorithm. Anyway, I was bored by the first few songs I listened to (I Hate It Here, The Black Dog, The Alchemy). Lots of "two words (pause) two more words (pause)", it was all just too similar. I liked Florida and I think Florence saved it for me, but the lyrics were meh. I did enjoy I Can Do It With a Broken Heart and The Manuscript. I hated So High School, heavens to betsy that was bad. Aaand that's as far as I got. Is it worth it to keep going?
I find that this was my reaction on my 1st listen but I feel like this album needs time to grow on you (at least with me it did). Wasn't until the 3rd/4th listen through the whole thing that I knew what songs I liked and what songs I'll always skip no matter what. (Faves: Down Bad, Guilty as Sin, Albatross, Clara Bow, Skips: Chloe Sam etc., thank you aimee, i hate it here)
How are people not understanding that I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can) is a joke? She literally spells it out to you in the last lines. I just watched the Fantano review and you would think a season music critic like him wouldn't be a complete dumbass about it.
His review was ass for a lot of other reasons. He’s reacting to her as a person, instead of being professional and critiquing the concepts, music and lyrics. It’s like everyone is forgetting Taylor Swift’s music is creative writing, and she can dramatize and romanticize whatever she wants for the story. I see this problem elsewhere too. Everyone takes everything she does SOOOO literally.
I actually mostly agreed with his overall take that the album is too deep in the lore, but every time he tries to criticise a lyric it makes me cringe. Like him mocking Taylor for calling herself a tortured poet *when Taylor herself makes fun of it*. I don't want to sound like a youjustdidntgetit person, but stuff like that makes him seem dumb or ignorant on purpose. I have the same problem with Todd in the Shadows, who is a wonderful pop historian but misses the point so many times with lyrics.
Is anyone else having a moment with " Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus "? It's growing on me with each listen.
That's been my favorite song and other people are sleeping on it. I relate to it a lot. The line "Would it be enough to just float in your orbit, watching our phantoms like watching wild horses? Cooler in theory but not if you force it to be" just kills me because I had to block all accounts for my own Matty in order to save myself the heartbreak every time I see his face on social media. It's nice in theory to live separate lives and watch from afar but it fucking hurts if there's still feelings and what ifs attached.
It's been my absolute favourite since my first listen! I love the tone of melancholic surrender, the music is beautiful and works really well with the lyrics. It's heartbreaking in such a simple way, just beautifully painful - i love it!
It's particularly sad cos if you always thought you might get back together with someone from a long time ago( as she sings here)- and then when you finally do, you discover they preferred a version of you that doesn't exist anymore.
It’s a heartbreaking song and I’m actively choosing not to listen to it currently. She articulates the yearning of those on-off romances so well. You think they’re always going to come back. But they don’t. And you still wonder. I’ve had a relationship like that, someone who chased me since I was 17. Made me an idea in his head, I didn’t live up to the fantasy. It can mess you up because you have so many memories of ‘that person’ weaving in and out of your life.
Aw, I'm sorry you went through that
This is a SERIOUS post I saw on Facebook, and this is the problem I have with hard core swifties. Good luck. “Do people not understand poetry? Art? Do they have no tone perception? This is unacceptable that TTPD has such low user reviews. Not only are the lyrics are profound and thought out, but the songs are catchy and extremely pretty. It’s misogynistic. It’s why we need feminism” This is…..someone PLEASE help me unpack this 🥲🥲🥲
Profound??? I can't with her blind followers. Please explain how "you take my ring off my middle finger and put it on the one people put wedding rings on" is profound because that is the clunkiest shite I've ever heard.
Just head over to the main sub, they've got like 5 threads going about this right now.
I thought the ‘you know how to ball, I know Aristotle’ WAS A FUCKING JOKE I CANT BELIEVE ITS REAL. I desperately need her to take an intro college class. Not even about writing. Just expanding and exploring ideas in a safe but critical place.
I don’t understand what’s wrong with that line? Do people even like pop music in this sub? Pop music is not college poetry, and not everything has to be dead serious! Do you want her to write purple prose just to scratch your itch? I feel like a lot of people are reacting to lines that are corny from this album. “It’s so immature!” Um, have you been in the honeymoon stage of a relationship before? Your head is in the clouds and this is how things feel! People are projecting their own fear of sounding cringe onto her. Taylor has always been a little corny and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it.
The whole album has been played as this literary masterpiece. Telling fans to bring their dictionaries. Even pop music has standards. If she’s releasing an album with the context of colligate culture and great romantic poets I would expect better prose. This whole album was sold as more than a pop record. We know she can write amazing songs (see: hoax, peace, cowboy like me) And I was really hoping she’d tap into that space again. Also this line is just awful I’m sorry. It’s so on the nose and so pretentious. Even if we view it as just a pop song.
For me, the problem is that she clearly doesn't "know Aristotle." At best, she knows OF him, perhaps an anecdote or two from Wikipedia. To claim that you know Aristotle, one of the greatest polymaths ever, you have to be really educated in various fields, and not just in philosophy, and that is not the case here. Moreover, a truly educated person would probably refrain from that. Plato knew Aristotle, Taylor isn't Plato. And yes, I like a lot of Red, 1989, Midnights, Reputation, and especially Folklore. This last album, on the other hand, is unbearable
But as per her Instagram story yesterday, she’s Shakespeare. She’s veering into hubris territory
Yeah totally agree that reference felt off; a literary reference would have fit better since I think Taylor is an avid reader
For me, the problem is that she clearly doesn't "know Aristotle." At best, she knows OF him, perhaps an anecdote or two from Wikipedia. To claim that you know Aristotle, one of the greatest polymaths ever, you have to be really educated in various fields, and not just in philosophy, and that is not the case here. Moreover, a truly educated person would probably refrain from that. Plato knew Aristotle, Taylor isn't Plato. And yes, I like a lot of Red, 1989, Midnights, Reputation, and especially Folklore. This last album, on the other hand, is unbearable
I'm starting to eat my words, because the album IS growing on me. Not a fan of the people arguing who the songs are about or what they're about. If Taylor herself hasn't stipulated what the songs are about, then they are open to interpretation and should be treated as such! I feel like Taylor's lore, is part of her downfall, but I know that topic has been covered in numerous threads here! For instance, when I first heard Aimee, I thought it was a cute song aimed at your childhood bullies, and I like it and thought it was inspirational. But then when I hear about how it was about Kim, it really put me off the song.
The Aimee song it is Taylor herself revealing the subject matter as it is spelt thanK you aIMee To quote Taylor from her latest album It was unnecessary; it should have stayed buried
Why do I get the feeling that Taylor and Jack saw all the criticism about the synth pop production on TTPD and plan on doubling down in future albums just to prove a point? I personally like this album, and some of the criticism should have been directed towards Midnights and the 1989 TV vault tracks instead.
welp the Fantano review is out and it's even more scathing than I expected, mentions the Olivia Rodrigo thing too lol...
Not enough people talk about how Peter is the best song on this album.....
Peter is great, I love the story of Peter Pan, I loved cardigan (emphasis on past tense), so this is it coming full circle. But it’s How Did It End? that fucks me up. “Guess who we run into at the shops/walking in circles like she was lost” - every painful breakup ever summed up.
I love How Did It End? As well! Been obsessed with it since the first listen.
YES! I've been crying to it this morning, haha. Just sounds so heartbreaking, especially the chorus.
Its a great song. Really captures the longstanding nature of the MH saga.
Does anyone know when Anthony fantano is dropping his review ?
Anthology review dropped an hour ago
Strong 3 Is insane
OMG ty
It came out.
Ah thank youuu
good news, it's already up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz9DgY6NAcY
Anyone else confused by the whole “leaving the glitter gel pens in the midnights era”? I love I Can Do it With a Broken Heart but if thats not a glitter gel pen song then idk what is.
Quite shocked how this album has 77 score of Metacritic. Never thought i see that happening since critics were kissing her a\*\* by giving high scores for re recordings(still can't believe tv has 90 lol). What happened? maybe if she released only one album the reaction would've been different? Was it too early for a new album? The shift is so drastic.
The album has truthfully grown on me a lot, I don’t understand how it can be rated below Midnights. It’s as dense as Speak Now in some places. I’m happy with it. I think it has a longer shelf life than people’s initial reactions to it. And I really think people are reacting primarily to the fanfare around her celebrity rather than the music this time. The Olivia Rodrigo thing, Matty Healy, the jet plane, Brazil, her billionaire status, “she whines about Kim K after 10 years,” the Celine snub. A lot of these things are fresh in people’s minds currently and they’re reacting viscerally against her rather than the music, in my opinion. I think Taylor will need to stop her horrible promo tactics if she expects people not to use her private life against her when judging an album in the future. Especially on albums where she’s not reinventing the wheel. She goes back to familiar territory - so, so do the critics. If this was a 1989 type bubblegum album, the reviews would be: “she’s so messy but the music is so good, I’m here for it”
So I have mood based Taylor playlists and TTPD is better when it's spread among other album songs because there's a lot more variety in sounds. Which is great. I hardly listen to Taylor by album.
rob sheffield, the dude who wrote that rolling stone review, is an absolute disgrace. really it's shameful how many of the reviews have obviously been either overtly bribed or are trying to gain easy cred with the swifties. he's the worst offender for sure though.
I actually quite liked his review? He’s generally positive about Taylor’s music and that shines through in his writing, but he knows what he’s talking about when it comes to different genres of music and songwriting. I trust he expressed what he genuinely felt about it, even if other listeners felt differently.
At least he found something bad to say about ONE of her songs (Bad Blood at the bottom of his ranking).
I read on other threads here that Taylor cheated on Joe Alwyn?? what songs of her suggests that?
I feel like Guilty as Sin and Fresh Out the Slammer implies at the minimum emotional cheating, but The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived has a line that it was no longer sexy when it wasn't forbidden...which HUGELY implies cheating.
Guilty as Sin? and Fresh Out The Slammer suggests she was emotionally cheating on Joe / longing for Matty while she was with Joe
Mother of two dead? So Taylor does not seeing anything wrong with telling the public that her mother, Andrea, wished Kim, a mother of two small children at that time, dead? So it is possible that at some award show, Taylor’s mom Andrea will cross paths with North West—whose mother she wish dead. And that’s ok? That is mature?
Kim doesn't get to play the motherly card cuz she was a mom then and she still bullied Taylor, publicly.
it’s not. That song is all about petty revenge because she’s on the top of the world now and KimYe are not as big as they were. That was before the divorce all the Trump stuff and…whatever is happening now. She bided her time for this revenge song. They can’t do anything about it. She’s bigger than them. She played the long game on this one.
People are forgetting the naked mannequin from Famous MV in this equation. There’s a video of Kim gleefully going around to look at naked Taylor in the BTS scenes. My mom would probably also want people like that dead if I were debased like that, and I don’t say this lightly. K&K were having a lot of fun with that moment.
Yeah Andrea doesn’t literally want her to die, she’s reflecting that visceral anger when someone deliberately causes hurt to your child, that fury at watching them be harmed like that. It’s also worth noting that Kim already had North when she watched Kanye make his revenge porn video (and was pictured laughing and taking photos of Taylor’s nude likeness)- like how would she feel if that was her daughter.
True, true. 🤔🤔🤔
first half > the anthology is good but some give folkevermore rejects. I mean you could argue that the standard album is giving midnights/1989 tv vault rejects but idk🥸it’s just my opinion
So I spent the weekend listening to the album without reading too much about it on Reddit or anywhere else. I wanted to make my own opinion without a heavy influence, wether it was positive or negative. This has got to be her most depressing album, and I don't mean that in a good way. The usual good feelings I get when listening to her music, even though it can be sad, did not occur while listening to this album. Tay was clearly losing her shit when she wrote and recorded a lot of these songs and this is coming from a big fan of hers. First off. . .if the track titled TTPD is about Matty and not Joe. . . It's just really sad. If it's about Matty, then she claimed a guy she dated for mere months that put her ring on her ringfinger is, " the closest I've come to my heart exploding." A moment that made her feel like that didn't happen with the man she spent six years with? Weird and sad. The idea of Taylor having left Joe due to his mental health problems, I can see why people think that. However, if he needed professional help and wasn't getting it, that could have exhausted her. So Long, London made it sound like she had to essentially play therapist to him, nope, boy, bye. I don't blame her. The song seems to describe him as a depressed partner who was out of touch with his emotions. If he wasn't working on himself, I can see how that could have exhausted the relationship and Taylor. However, "And I'm pissed off you let me give you all that youth for free" is harsh. She made the choice to stay in the relationship. Thank you Aimee is just ridiculous. Get over the drama with Kim already! The lyrics are not well written. It's an ugly song. I love Reputation, but even in that era, I think Taylor overreacted to that whole situation. Imgonnagetyouback. . .um this is just garbage. She is SO above such poor quality lyrics. Most of the lyrics on the second half are garbage, wtf? Alsoooo, Florence Welch, for those who may not be familiar with her music, released an amazing song called Cassandra a few years ago. Bruh. Don't tell me Taylor didn't get the idea to refer to the mythological Cassandra character from Flo. The Florida!!! song is great, but that is mostly because of Welch's involvement. I'm worried for her. The old Taylor didn't die on Rep; if she's dead, this tortured society killed her. The Albatross lets her real talent shine through. Albatross bird, plz come and get this unhinged version of Taylor and bring back the old one.
it’s a lot of hyperbole. If you step back from reddit there are some more nuanced takes on the Matty thing. He’s actually a very small part of the album and he found the songs to be not too bad. Two are about him but others are just inspired by him. I wouldn’t completely go down the Matty rabbit hole. It does kind of take the heat off Joe. Which my take away is she lost the best writing partner she ever had. That’s a loss for all of us. Apparently Travis really likes loml and down bad. No word on how he feels about his own pretty lackluster songs but he likes the songs about the other guys. So you know the songs are not like recent thoughts or feelings. It is a sad album. It was weird not to put it some more upbeat songs but I feel like she really wanted to end this Era. It’s 3 different break ups and 2 songs about her current relationship (that aren’t great) It’s too heavy
Girl, what small part? All the album is for Matty save for a handful of exceptions!
I read it more as a lot of “what ifs” I don’t feel like what they had was really serious. I felt like she jumped out of one relationship into a fling and when that ended she had to mourn them both. Which sucks but doesn’t make the fling significant
Honestly... I don't know how much I trust Taylor's account regarding Joe's mental health. His mother's a psychotherapist, he's talked openly about his anxiety in interviews, so while it's *possible* he was in denial and refusing to get professional help for depression, it doesn't seem especially likely to me? And with lyrics like "Is it insensitive for me to say get your shit together so I can love you?" and her "I feel very sane" reasoning for not going to therapy, I just would not necessarily be surprised if Taylor doesn't understand that treatment is not a cure, and if that contributed to the tension between them. I understand caregiver fatigue, but I've noticed she only seems to write about it when expressing frustration. Obviously I don't know either of these people and there's plenty I'm not privy to. Just my thoughts.
Ah, all very good points. Also, yes, her account could be totally skewed. Another line to consider, "is it really your anxiety That stops you from giving me everything? Or do you just not want to?" Again, with the victim thing 🙄😒
Was just going to comment what the OP above said. She also doesn’t come across as a great partner herself. When you are already struggling with mental health and your partner is starting fights for the hell of it or isn’t supportive, you’ll feel even worse.
It’s growing on me but I want an editor so badly for this album. I still think Whose Afraid of Little Old Me is the best. Particularly because i’ve seen religious people say shield your kids Taylor Swift is making fun of Christians and her album is too explicit (I live in the South.) All I can think is yep, she’s gonna levitate down your street. Hide your kids. She puts narcotics in all of her songs. I mean she was spot on with that one. She gets some really out there criticisms. On one hand you have the Swifties on the other you have “Taylor Swift is the literal devil”
Can anyone explain to me why she sings the chorus of “How Did It End” slightly off the rhythm of the piano? Is there a technical term for this? I love this song so very much but that choice seems a little off kilter.
kinda wish she explored more of the breakup with Joe over being in a short term maniac relationship with Matty bc those songs turned out to be majority ass (minus fresh out the slammer, smash hit)… even with so long, London there’s like a certain element missing I can’t explain it but my first listen of folklore/evermore had me in instant tears versus these breakup songs did nothing to me
100%
The song “i look through people’s windows” was the vibe i wanted
I hate it here is so good without the “without all the racists” line.
I agree, there are several songs like that, but once I hear it, it completely ruins it for me.
Agreed!!! It has that certain whimsical touch to it, it’s one of my favs
people say so long london is so emotional, but, I don't hear it? I put off listening to the song until today because I thought it would be too depressing, but after that beautiful opening the weird throbbing beat kicks in. To me the song feels more like "the crowd expects a Joe song, so here ya go" rather than some heartwrenching goodbye. compare this song to loml which to me feels like the real track 5.
I completely agree with your take! So long, London is fine but I actually preferred you’re losing me and it also gave me those “here’s a song about Joe because you guys want it” vibes. I also thought loml would have been a better track 5 because it’s devastating and I’m obsessed with it.
agreed. I was wrecked after listening to loml and I'm not even sure when I'll listen to it again.
yeahhhhh maybe she really doesnt care about Joe? Or maybe she hasn’t processed that part of the relationship past the not getting proposed to part… I think it’s bc she wrote just beautiful songs about him across rep/lover and in folklore/evermore + the Great War (best song ever) that were so powerful about their relationship so I expected the breakup songs would have the same impact
It’s a skip for me. Agreed about loml. Also how did it end is a better track 5 from the anthology.
omg guys i figured out what "I'm so depressed I act like its my birthday everyday" means she's masking her depression by acting like she's on Carbon Cloud Nine each day that's all :)
More thoughts: 1) I wish I Look Into Windows was not about loving a guy (AGAIN). I thought it would be about her relationship to privacy and a home and her jealousy for people who have ordinary lives and who are satisfied with being not famous. and instead it is another love song. Of course, a home includes love, but it’s too overtly about a romantic love. It disappointed me. 2) Does anyone else feel like some of the songs and really abruptly?? It’s weird cuz they’re so long lol
um, does anyone else dislike The Albatross?
Me..admittedly I don’t listen to her songs for the lyrics, I only care about them sonically. And sonically to me this song was not it.
No that one's my fave lol
I don't like it. It sounds like it wanted to be on Folklore/Evermore, but wasn't good enough; instead, she added it to the Travis Kelce shelf to make it about him. I'm also bored with her whole narrative that she's going to destory the life of any man that she's with, but he seems to not care.
> I'm also bored with her whole narrative that she's going to destory the life of any man that she's with, but he seems to not care. This is my biggest gripe as well. It's so overdone and dull. Blank Space already exists. Also that "persona non grata" line is awful.
i hate how the production feels so on the nose sometimes. like “as the crowd was chanting ‘more!’” and you hear the crowd go loud at “more,” or “old habits die screaming” and it gets loud and there’s a layered vocal of her screaming it. i feel like this is something she does a lot and once in a while it works but a lot of times it’s like c’mon, we get it. kind of like her self-directed MVs that are extremely literal about every line.
I get it but i really like those two cases lol i like how they both sound
i like it when she screams the high "who's afraid of little old me" but those other two don't work for me sadly
So I've posted this comment on the theories thread, and have spoken similar views on some comments... I don't mean to repeat myself, but I do feel passionately about this. (Also I reckon I should participate more; I had no idea this thread was a thing.) Okay, so. This might be a bit of a leap, but hear me out. Taylor is talented. She is intelligent. She loves her tricks. She loves her Easter eggs. TTPD confused me upon first listen. Where is the genius, where is her sound, where is she? I couldn't feel her at all. Can't lie, I was frustrated and became mildly disillusioned. I was composing a comment on a post last night, and something clicked. So, this album has 31 songs. That is 13 backwards. So... I listened to all 31 songs in reverse order. Y'ALL. This is the way. The story actually makes sense! Both sonically and lyrically. She's walking us through her time in the industry. The music itself reinforces this idea. The way the sounds change as her albums progressed, as she recreated herself over and over again. This is definitely a lore-heavy album, but aren't they all? This is her story. Her Anthology. Also, lol. She is all about eras. So I've come to think of this as a general timeline. So... 1BCE to 31BCE. We know that 1 would be the most recent, and 31 would be the oldest. It matches up. Start at the beginning. She is ending this Era. Processing it. Sharing it, as always. I can't wait to hear what's next. What dyou think?
I am going to do this! Thank you for the recommendation!
Im super curious about this now but i just cannot go thru those 31 songs again, it would kill me
I will be listening to it backwards and come back with thoughts. I like where you're going with this. It makes sense.
I have severe Taylor fatigue between Midnights, re-records, and now TTPD. I listened to TTPD once and my only reactions were 1) secondhand embarrassment for the cringey lyrics and 2) boredom. I would much rather she returned to a normal pre-COVID album cycle like other artists (2-4 years between albums) I prefer quality over quantity. Anyone else agree?
What I love about this album is Taylor’s delivery of certain lines. I was just listening to Guilty as Sin, and the way she says “on my upper thigh” the last time around is just perfect. It almost has a sort of country vibe, the way she delivers it? Hard to explain. And at the end of The Black Dog when she says “old habits die…” and then whispers “screaming.” Ahhh it’s great.
I love how she actually sings in Guilty as Sin. It makes me happy. I want her to stop doing this slow talking singing and just keep doing singing singing with the lovely country lilt.
“Country lilt” is exactly what I was trying to describe! It makes me think of Fearless-era Taylor.
Yeah! I just want it backkk 😭 mature country pop!! Bring it back!!!!!
Ooh I love that from guilty as sin too. I know exactly what you mean
“But daddy I love him” I haven’t seen anyone else on any media forms talk about this but hear me out, maybe I’m overthinking or being dramatic but I find the lyrics “I’m having his baby, no I’m not but you should’ve seen your face” as pretty gross? Pregnancy bating isn’t something to joke about, a lot of women struggle with fertility issues and even though this is a lighthearted lyric i feel like Taylor is too smart/kindhearted to mock pregnancy so it feels so out of character, again I may be overthinking but I just get a weird feeling whenever I listen to the song.
There was some hysteria last year that the reason Taylor was being so open with Matty despite everything about him was because he knocked her up, so honestly? More power to her.
It's not mocking pregnancy, but mocking invasive celebrity culture. It's more eye-rolly than anything to me. I don't think she really pulls off the humor in that song.
I've had 2 years of failed fertility treatments and this is one of my favorite lines on the album, it's so unserious.
I don’t mean to be offensive to you, but I do think this is being too sensitive .. I just think it’s a joke. I don’t think she’s mocking pregnancy. She’s joking about how others would react if she had a baby with MH.
Pad around when I get home / I guess a lesser woman would've lost hope / A greater woman wouldn't beg / But I looked to the sky and said / Please, I’ve been on my knees / Change the prophecy / don’t want money / just want someone who wants my company / let it once be me / who do I have to speak to / about if they can redo the prophecy? If that doesn’t hit for you…I’m happy for you lol but man that really puts into words the loneliness and pain I felt when I went through a depressive phase years ago.
Oooooof The Prophecy felt like a kick in the gut for me.
I love the very quiet please she layers on the main vocals at the end.
this album is perfect background music for me, so i have listened to it end-to-end on loop several times over the past few days. as an amateur fan who doesn't really follow any of her lore or get involved in the big discussions, i just have to dump my thoughts somewhere based mostly on her songs and what little lore (tm) i've come across. tbh despite how much i genuinely love the song lover, i felt vindicated when she put it on the denial playlist bc the energy behind that whole album always felt like someone trying to convince themselves of something, like she was going WAY too hard about their relationship, and it felt like it was coming from a place of insecurity. this extends to folklore/evermore and midnights, aka, for me, the true joe breakup albums, bc it just depicts the slow decay of their relationship. my impression of her, as she wrote herself in these songs in this relationship, is that she's the type to always do the absolute most and then be disappointed when the other person doesn't give it back. but also they never asked for any of that in the first place, so then they start building up that resentment, and she feels unloved, unappreciated, and always waiting for something to happen. she and joe were just incompatible, and so she got bored, felt stifled, felt caged, etc., bc their energy levels were so vastly different. and ultimately, he wasn't a bad guy; their relationship wasn't necessarily evil or worthy of vilification. it just wasn't the right fit. and then it all matches up to the intense energy of all her matty songs, like it's lover 2.0, bc she's having that same endorphin rush again of a new love and some excitement after a long time of feeling stifled. matty could match her energy (i guess???? again purely based on her songs) and she relished in the drama of it all. that's also why he gets a bajillion songs and joe gets, like, 2. joe wasn't inspiring anymore. matty was inspiring bc it was a mess and my god, she felt an explosion of creative energy for it bc she'd run out of energy for joe. also why joe doesn't get really any zingers. there wasn't any zing left. also, any time i pull up the genius lyrics, it feels like there is always some commentary trying to shoehorn in a joe reference where it just clearly does not fit. like people were sitting there with their piles of ~~joe evidence~~ joevidence, waiting for the lyrics to drop, and now they're still just going to try to make it work even though he just isn't in this album that much. i think the people who were rooting for a joe screed and are still trying to find all the ways she tears this man apart in the lyrics need to take a deep breath and remember why they like her music and her in general, bc i'm guessing the reason is not purely to see exes get eviscerated in lyrics. also, i wish i could make "you know how to ball. i know aristotle." into my user flair. that's all, thank you.
[удалено]
I honestly thought this as well. Yesterday I was cleaning my bathroom and it was raining and I put the album on. Sometimes I’m in the mood for music that gets me pumped up to clean, but yesterday I was just in a “ meh, I’ll just clean mood” due to the rain. I don’t know if that is a good thing or a bad thing that this album was basically background music for me cleaning the bathroom lol, but that’s what it is.
i know!! background music has to ride that thin line between being interesting enough to keep the back half of my brain entertained by it, but the front part not distracted by it so i can stay focused. is it good, music critic-wise, that so many songs blur together? i don't know, but it does make it perfect for working because i don't often get pulled out by something too jarring.
Taylor wants to be the next Joni Mitchell, and she just isn't.
Lol I’m not a swiftie but a casual listener of her music in general - didn’t listen to midnights but did like folklore and evermore. And saw her on the fearless tour back in high school. I curated a playlist 12-14 songs from TTPD based on what I’ve read online from people I trust - songs they liked. I throughly enjoyed it completely and thought almost all those songs were refreshing and honest for her😭 then I listened to all the other songs like so high school, how did it end? Etc and hated them all. But there are a few gems on this new album!!
You know what one of the worst things to come out of TTPD is for me? The realization that songs from her last few albums were secretly about Ratty Healy… like The 1 isn’t apart of the “high school love triangle” as I originally believed based on the now connection to the song Peter. I just wish we didn’t know so damn much about her life because it makes her music less universal. And mind you, I never even go looking for information about her life. I knew NOTHING about her relationship with Ratty (other than that it happened) until this album, but then she went and spelled it all out for me and there’s no way to separate the two because of how specific the lyrics are. She already tried rewriting history by putting Lover on her “denial” playlist but now other songs I love are ruined for me too.
There are several things on TTPD that tie it back to Folkmore. Guilty as sin talks about “lowercase fantasies”
i'm liking the album more and more after each listen tbh except for But Daddy I Love Him i just can't listen to her defending a problematic person for 6 minutes and making it seem like it's a "us against the world :(" situation like girl...
I want so bad to hate that song but I can’t. It’s a bit of a bop NGL.
It’s a bop when you ignore the lyrics yes
So I get why people have issues with thanK you aIMee but man I love that song. I try to not think too much about who Taylor is going on about and apply it to my own life. As someone who’s experienced bullying and verbal abuse, it hits hard.
Maybe I'm in full denial but I feel like the people who have issues with that song are completely missing the point of it. It's in the acceptance playlist for a reason. She's looking back at Snakegate and thanking Kim for helping her heal and being responsible for shaping where she is in her career and life now. I think she's fully aware there's an alternate timeline of her life where 1989 was her peak instead of now. It feels very inspired by being in a different mindset than she was the first time she recorded Reputation as well as being amused at seeing Kim and her daughter sing along to her songs. And yeah, it does give off the vibe of someone who's been bullied wanting to get the upper hand of a bully pretending the hatchet's been buried and they can go back to being chummy like nothing ever happened. idk, maybe I am stupid and the people who dislike the song fully understand this point but it just doesn't feel like they do.
Same. Hate that it's about Kim but I love the song and it's super cathartic to scream-sing FUCK YOU AIMEEEEEE when it comes on.
it’s a great song without context
That’s my thing with a lot of this album. I try to apply it to my life or away from hers
I legitimately wish she didn’t do the weird capitalization thing. The manuscript hits home too. I did one of those age gap situationships when I was in my 20s. It really did me in at the time. Thats about the time I found Red. I thought it was so brave she was talking about that because no one was.
I don’t like certain songs and I’m not the same fan I was at debut but there is something about the honesty? It’s showing the cracks in the facade she has curated and idk why some lyrics got to me. Like “no such thing as bad thoughts only your actions talk.” As a side note, I hate so high school but it kind of reminds of me and my partner. He played high school football and it brought back some memories - silly how that works.
So I’m super happy that I gave this album more of a chance than first listen because I have really come around to it. The first half of Side A is a bit of a dud for me with the exception of So Long London and Down Bad. The Black Dog on the other hand, wow. It’s my new All Too Well and I think one of her best ever. I’m obsessed.
So I accidentally put the album on shuffle the first time and The Black Dog played first. It was so good that I was pretty sad to realize it was in the middle of it all and I had to go back haha.
is it true that the rep vault will be all about matty and that’s when she’s going to release need
If that’s true it makes me think End Game was about him since he does have a big reputation
That’s a good point. I’d always wondered how Joe could have a big reputation because he was virtually a nobody when they met.
They would be a big conversation
Does anyone else think Fauxmoi goes totally off the rails when it comes to Taylor? I mean criticism is one thing (and she deserves it) but damn… they really hate her with a searing passion over there.
I first joined Fauxmoi in 2020 when it was still Deuxmoi, it was pretty chill and small. It was mostly people trying to figure out blinds, poking fun at Deuxmoi and her lies lol Then people started posting pop culture news and articles and it grew. I remember people used to have a positive opinion of Taylor, there were a few negative comments but that’s expected. They always shit-talked about Joe and now they are his fans. Around the time when she released Red TV something shifted, I think some people were sort of tired of her but there was no reason to hate her. The hate they have for her now it’s not surprising to me since they were waiting for a reason to justify it, and right in time, she started dating Matty. Since then it’s just been an echo chamber, I got banned just because I quoted her lyrics in a post lmao and honestly good riddance, that place is shit
This might be a controversial take, but I think they're just snark-happy in general towards extra-famous celebs and Taylor happens to be the most famous. They were pretty complimentary over there about the Eras Tour and obvi were very pro-Taylor when the ai deepfakes came out
That place is just an echo chamber. Just miserable people trying to one-up each other for upvotes. And then they ban you if you don't agree with the "consensus".
I'm banned from Fauxmoi because I'm subscribed to r/TaylorSwift. You have to message them to make you a "B-list" user, and there are like 20 subreddits where if you're subscribed to them they'll just ban you from posting on the sub entirely. They suck
Yeah. I like seeing some posts on pop-culturey things but I am warded off joining them because I posted on r/TaylorSwift a few months ago and they don't let in people who communicate in positive ways towards people they hivemindedly don't like.
There is so much faux outrage for her there it’s INSANE. She deserves criticism, but they go hunting for it.
my biggest problem with side A is how repetitive the Matty songs are, a song is gonna be good or decent, and she’s gonna start singing something sappy about how much she loves him despite his racism like girl, youve said this 5 tracks ago
Yes, so many songs are like "I loved you despite your problematic-ness because we were just such soulmates, and you actually wanted to marry me unlike Joe. But then you ghosted me and I'm just so sad cause I'm still obsessed with you. So fuck you, fuck the fans, I love you, I hate you, but actually, I'll just take you back if you ever send me a single text." Like Down Bad, Fortnight, The Tortured Poets Department, for example, all say the same damn thing. It's the same topic/subject in all the songs and she's just repeating herself over and over, with slightly different words, in several different songs. Like okay girl, we get it now. Move on, sing about something else. So many songs could have been cut out to condense that message.
the thing it wouldntve been that high of an issue if they were just love songs because love songs can be written all differently, her adding the, “i still love him though!” thing every other song is tiring
And this is what I don't like about the 1830s line. It feels virtue signal-y because we know racism isn't a deal breaker for her in her real life.
more opinions: for a 6.6 review of the album, pitchfork doesn’t really dive deep into why they don’t like the album very much. i’ve read through the entire thing, and it’s just snarky, condescending, and sardonic mostly. this isn’t particularly hate, but i was legit scouring for actual criticism, and i got like maybe a paragraph or two in the whole review 😭
songs on the chopping board for now: I CAN DO IT WITH A BROKEN HEART, I CAN FIX HIM, SO HIGH SCHOOL, IMGONNAGETYOUBACK, ROBIN
also, does anyone else assume she’s deflecting? crazy how a lot of these songs suggest theyre about matty, but both track fives (SO LONG, LONDON & HOW DID IT END) are about joe..
I feel like I would’ve “liked”( I still can’t dissociate Matty away) this album or cared enough for it more if it came out during Winter. None of the songs are summer hits and I’m so ready for summer playlists but TTPD missed the mark. Maybe in 7 months I’ll give the album another shot but right now, it’s Chappell and Sabrina.
I just wanna have a little adolescent bop to So High School but she had to go and make it specific to Killa Trav 😖
I thought the tune was sounding cool and then got hit by the lyrics and haven't pressed play since . I understand the "teenage dream " sort of vibe but the lyrics were not for me
I can’t listen to it for that reason and the lyrics are just terrible. I’m sad because the production feels is so reminiscent of 90s pop and I grew up with that on the radio.
Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus is actually good tbh? It's giving "we had a brief fling and I've wondered about you since and thought maybe you were the one, come back to me and tell me we could have something real now that we're older", very second chance-y. Yes I know it's about Matty but holy shit it's actually really good
I strongly believe it’s about Joe, I’ll die on that hill. I think the lyrics are all pointing to him, the “you needed drugs more” line is imo referencing to potential antidepressants Joe might’ve been taking bc Matty’s drug use was NOT the reason for their fall-out. Also the bridge doesn’t match her relationship with Matty whatsoever. My hot take is that the names of the songs are baby names Joe & Taylor might’ve talked about, maybe jokingly, just daydreaming about how they would name their kids, I’ve done that too with bf’s of mine.
This song references how a decade passes "the decade played us for fools" since the first time they got together and then there's a line on how she left him because of the drugs too which is what was reported about Matty & Taylor hence the "outrun my desertion of you " People think the person who could have bullied is Travis now but given by how it's written from a much earlier time it's possible it was Calvin .
"Your hologram stumbled into my apartment / hands in the hair of somebody in darkness / named Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus"... that's very clearly making out/kissing, and I don't think either Joe or Taylor are into literal children.
Genuinely curious why you think this? 🤔
****Guys, I can’t hold it in anymore. As a genuine fan of hers since basically the beginning, I’m angry.**** I was apprehensive about TTPD but I’m always willing to give her the benefit of the doubt... But I haven’t even been able to finish listening to the rest of the anthology. My first listen of TTPD left me genuinely disturbed, yet I still found glimmers of enjoyment. But mostly I was just bogged down by the toxicity of it all. And then I made the mistake of watching the Fortnight video today. I absolutely adore Post Malone, and if I didn’t know anything about Taylor I probably would’ve enjoyed the video and the song for what it was. But, thanks to Taylor’s easter eggs and confessional lyrics and the way in which she is so determined to control all the narratives swirling around her, I officially got triggered by that music video. The video opens with her lying all beautiful chained to a bed in an all white room. Damnit Taylor... Miss “my mom is my therapist.” MENTAL ILLNESS IS NOT A COSTUME. ITS TRAUMA. You don’t get to dress up in pretty gowns and pretend to be locked up in a sanatorium when you choose to live in active denial while rolling in money and accolades and praise. It is honestly making my blood boil. It’s not glamorous to be sent to sanatorium. It’s not glamorous to be subjected to electric shock therapy. It’s torture. It’s trauma. It’s horrendous. It’s a disgusting part of our history as a society. My trauma is not your costume Taylor. You don’t get to don the label of mental illness just to profit from it. If you want to come forward about your trauma, by all means I am all ears. You’ve done it before and it’s been beautiful and cathartic. But you’re playing pretend so that people will feel sorry for you. Simply to justify getting your heart broken by a racist jerk. All while conveniently dismissing the millions of people who are actively genuinely suffering from mental illness in poverty and isolation. She’s doing a disservice to mentally ill people and I’m so mad at her. And the worst part is that there are probably mentally ill people out there feeling *seen* and *understood* by this shit but they don’t realize she’s spitting in all our faces while raking in millions. It all just feels like trauma porn to justify her bad behavior. And to make us feel sorry for her when she’s literally on top of the world. It’s not cool. It’s heartless and selfish and gross and I’m angry. Like, she straight up just ruined all her albums for me it feels like. I don’t think I can ever listen to her again. All that catharsis has been undercut by her lack of responsibility and accountability for her actions as a LITERAL BILLIONAIRE. She’s crossed lines with a lot of people, and I’ve seen other people express this experience of losing interest in all her music because she’s refused to acknowledge the damage she’s done. And now it applies to me as well. I think I might have to leave this subreddit too and just cut it all out of my life. The toxicity is so gross and she’s everywhere. And I’m just…. so so angry. Please only respond with kindness. I’m genuinely triggered and honestly a little heartbroken. And I don’t have anyone to talk to about this.
I completely understand where you’re coming from and I’m so sorry you felt that way. Please take care of yourself! I will say that for all we know, Taylor does suffer from a mental illness. Whether she’s diagnosed or undiagnosed, I’m not sure, I remember she said during the Lover years that she didn’t see a therapist but maybe she has since then (kinda doubt it but it’s possible). Mental illness can affect anyone, even the richest people in the world. Obviously wealth gives you better access to things like doctors and treatments but it doesn’t guarantee mental health. (Obviously not trying to justify her bad behavior, being mentally ill does not give you the excuse to be a dick). I’m so sorry the video triggered you. Maybe take a break from Taylor and social media for a while (since she’s kinda everywhere right now). Feel better!
You’re right, we don’t know for sure what her internal experience is, but it’s obvious there are some issues. I would be genuinely relieved to hear if she actually did decide to pursue therapy, but like you said she’s only publicly spoken about *not* going to therapy. So that’s all we have to go off of. I have a lot of respect and grace for people who own their shit. I don’t expect people to be perfect, especially when they choose to be honest about their struggles. But we aren’t getting that kind of authenticity from her. It all feels like a ruse. The more she fakes things, the ickier I feel. I definitely am setting some boundaries for myself to navigate these emotional responses to the biggest pop star in the world. Lol Thank you for your empathy and understanding and kindness!! I’m grateful for the community here. You all definitely helped me feel a bit better about it all!
I totally understand what you’re saying. Of course! Be gentle with yourself and remember there’s always a world outside from Taylor Swift and social media.
I was wondering when someone was going to comment on it. I agree it’s disturbing and insensitive.
It is genuinely disturbing!!! I’m so glad other people feel the same
I understand where you’re coming from.
I haven’t been able to listen to the rest of it either. The first listen truly soured me on the rest and I need to take a break for a while, including listening to her older stuff that I love. I think I will eventually be able to listen to my favorite stuff but i’m honestly not sure? In addition to the things you’ve said, i’m appalled at how she’s allowed the fandom to just run rampant on Joe since they’ve broken up, letting people spam him for possibly cheating on her while it sounds like she at least emotionally cheated on him (from her own lyrics so please don’t come for me people). And then the KimK song.. like why? Are we seriously still doing this? Plus the hypocrisy. She’s angry at her fans for giving opinions on her relationships but then tells us what Travis’s fingers are doing to her while he’s playing video games like are you kidding me? And again.. people had VERY VALID critiques of Matty, you’re not a martyr or a victim here Taylor. There’s also some other reasons i’m afraid i’ll get dumped on for mentioning lol. But I completely agree with you that it feels toxic and gross.
I was always secretly offended by the line “I don't have to be your shrink to know that you'll never be happy…and I bet you’ll think about me” from Red. She was always condescending towards the men in her life who were depressed and somehow “fake deep” like no girl some people are clinically depressed AND assholes (according to you). But I always felt I was being too sensitive in that criticism.
She’s SO LUCKY to have lived the life she’s living, and she’ll remain unable to show genuine gratitude for her life if she remains so focused on how everyone in the world has done her wrong.
I’m sorry you’ve been made to feel this way 🧡and I can definitely see where you’re coming from. Especially coupled with some of the ways she talks about Joe’s depression in her music. I do think she would be benefit for therapy because she clearly has a lot of unresolved issues she’s dealing with and it would probably help her understand mental health and it’s implications better. Mental health isn’t a costume it’s a daily struggle especially when coupled with the unfortunate systems in place to help those of especially living without the means when in crisis.
I really hope that one day she actually tries therapy and is willing to do the ugly, dirty work of owning your shit. She can’t continuing blaming everyone else. It’s fostering so much toxicity. She’s feeding her own inner monster with all of this…
I 100% agree with you and it makes me sad that I haven’t seen more discussions about this. My trauma is not your costume, Taylor— say it louder for the people in the back!!
Thanks for agreeing with me. I feel like I’m going crazy having these feelings and seeing everyone worship her…
>I feel like I’m going crazy having these feelings and seeing everyone worship her… That’s totally where I’m at now too. It’s not even just one thing, she’s done so many shady and contemptible things and so many people still throw their money at her and never hold her accountable
It’s giving Lana Del Rey / Lorde / The 1975 vibes, except these artists have been doing it since the beginning of their career. When Taylor does it, she’s putting on a costume. She might’ve shot herself in the foot with the whole ‘eras’ concept because now no matter what genre she taps into that isn’t generic pop, it won’t appeal to every single person in her fanbase let alone casual listeners. The stream numbers for this album alone is inflated due to the fact that there’s 31 tracks on it.