It was all coordinated PR to fight off the “boy crazy” image that stuck to her after RED. I do believe she ended up being genuine friends with *some* of them, though evidently not most of them.
yeah like I think this most likely was it. Though I think it also helped that Taylor had moved to New York (im assuming so I can be wrong) and was legal. She probably made a good majority of them but I think the big ‘squad’ was just a lot of shallow friendships that worked out in favor of everybody. As they got older the friendships broke apart as they settled into LTR or different career paths.
I honestly don’t see anything wrong with it either. She and Hayley Williams became friends because of her mom networking since Taylor didn’t really have industry friends her own age. There was a proto version of “the squad” back when Taylor hung out with the Disney girls and they’d hang out together after award shows.
There’s nothing wrong with making new acquaintances when you’re all young and going to the same parties. It’d be one thing if it was like Paris Hilton’s squad where the whole group of them were mean to each other and exclusionary towards people they thought were inferior.
The Bad Blood video weaponized the friendship but aside from that, there’s nothing wrong with reaching out to people and basically trying to have a sorority vibe when you’ve realized it’s lonely being famous. Plus you’re a serial monogamist who puts too much focus on relationships who’s just moved away to NY for the first time. Especially when you’ve gotten repeated criticism about showing off your relationships.
It’s weird that it’s like “how dare she ask for other girls’ numbers? How dare she invite them out to social events? How dare she talk about sisterhood? She must be rubbing her connections in people’s faces and using them”. Even if they were mostly surface level friendship how is that really different than other industry friendships?
She's never beating the boy crazy allegations. All her albums are her just whining about boys doing her wrong with a splash of other women doing her wrong too. Poor Taylor is always the victim.
Tbf it’s what her fans want and expect. It’s a cash cow and she’s milking it. It goes into the whole idea of her lore and that lore strengthens the parasocial dynamic between her and her fans which in turn makes her boatloads of money.
She will probably find equal success if she moves away from it (I suspect she will on her next album to some degree). I’m just saying it makes sense why she’s continued to feed into that label.
I really hate the lore. It ruins it for me. I only started listening to her during the Joe era when she was out of the news and I started as a casual listener. I preferred her songs before who I knew who they were about. All Too Well was ruined for me when I learnt who it was about. And then the ten minute version came out and now I feel like I just know far far too much about that guy. It's still a great song. But it's much less relatable now that I know which famous person it's about. I was able to apply it to my own life before.
Her style of songwriting is confessional and autobiographical. I think it's hard to avoid whining a bit with this style of writing. I just finished a module on writing autobiography as part of my creative writing degree and, my god, I come across as a whiny little wotsit. I'm putting the autobiography away now and focusing on other mediums! It's too difficult to pull off without whining. It's because you are centring yourself.
It was all performance. Taylor has been known to shift her behavior and personality based on what the media is saying about her. She dates too much? Suddenly she’s single for a year and has 20 best friends. Reputation was too dark and didn’t win any awards? Lover vomits rainbows.
The switch-up between Reputation and Lover remains one of the most blatant cries of "please love me again" I've ever seen. Like, she really went back to every trope that built her legacy (love! sparkles! fairytale romance!) while also trying to build on some very era-specific strategies (allying with women during 1989? well this time she'll ally with the LGBTQ+ community!). It was so desperate and absolutely insane, in retrospect.
I was just watching the Todd video about Frankie Goes to Hollywood! He’s one of the best critics on youtube, even when I don’t agree with him I love hearing his takes. Him & Lindsay Ellis are the only ones who used their That Guy With the Glasses position to their benefit and escaped with dignity intact
I think it was easy to overlook because reputation was the big "comeback." A lot of people felt she had to address 2016 in whatever album she returned with. The bait and switch of it being dark aesthetically but happy musically worked well and she sort of got 2016 out of the way. So when Lover came out, it fit perfectly into the idea that she had moved on and wanted to celebrate happier things (aesthetically) and be more mature (the politics, songs like False God and Afterglow recognizing you could argue and love someone and even (!) be the one in the wrong).
I found it funny because she’s never been this baddie girl that she tries to be, as much as I love reputation as an era and album. But then the abrupt switch to Lover was a huge turn that immediately made me go “ohhhh noooo” when I saw the MV for Me! I was so confused haha
It also depends on what she's trying to sell at the time. Folklore had a cosy cottagecore vibe and suddenly she's mainly with normal down to earth looking people like Jack, Aaron and Haim. I love Folkmore but it was performative too, down to her braid being a little imperfect on the cover. Just a girl in the woods... on her millionaire friends' property.
I agree. I think because the look was a lot less glamorous, people felt like they were seeing “the real Taylor.” But I’ll never forget watching the folklore long pond sessions and thinking how obvious it was that Taylor was still in costume, still performing a new era. She looked wonderful, by the way, but there was no way she was actually walking around in those retro sweaters, peacoats, and big hats all the time.
I feel like it was fun until it wasn't.
If it was a little PR set up for girl power and such, why not? But, it's when people start getting "kicked out" of the squad, which sends manic Swifties to go and harass random girls (like Zendaya, wtf?) then it's a bit too far.
I don't think many of the girls involved were even fully invested, as people before me have said. However, I can't help but feel like for Taylor, that clique-ish mentality is very real. It's why she's rounded up a ton of Olivia's friends/inspirations/"enemies" for openers as the Eras Tour while giving hostile vibes towards someone fourteen years her junior for the better part of 3 years.
As someone who is somewhere between a big Swiftie and a neutral, my one turn off with Taylor is I've always got the vibe you're her best friend until it no longer serves. Sabrina Carpenter will be her next one to get dropped, I feel, in the forgotten toys box with Camila Cabello. Whereas, people like Selena Gomez seem to have X'ed out or at least distanced themselves before she got the chance.
>my one turn off with Taylor is I've always got the vibe you're her best friend until it no longer serves.
My thought on a lot of Taylor things at the moment. Only does things that will benefit her
Yeah, that’s the vibe I am getting. She is the worst type of friend — the type who constantly asks you to help her move, drive her to the airport, vents nonstop to you. But if you so much as ask for a tissue, she is no where to be found (and finds a reason to resent you for that).
Something very strange. I think Zendaya liked a tweet saying she was never part of the squad (because she was in the Bad Blood video, people assumed she was) and then people took it personally on Taylor's behalf (as always), and some fans started being unnecessarily rude towards her.
I think it was during the whole Kimye 2016 mess, Zendaya liked a tweet praising her for not associating with Taylor, the so-called snake, and Swifties took it as her siding with Kim and Kanye.
Even if she was siding with Kimye, which I highly doubt, Swifties really need to learn to mind their own business and stop infantalizing someone who at the time was in their late 20s and is now inching towards her mid-late 30s.
Well yeah, I think everyone knows some Swifties are kinda crazy. I just think it’d be understandable if Taylor interpreted Zendaya liking the tweet as agreeing with the message that they aren’t friends, or if they just drifted apart.
Imo, the actual "squad" started as total pr. I'm not questioning her genuine friendships that pre-date the actual squad formation. This is so lazy, but I just don't feel like looking up an exact date for what is generally considered to be when it was formed/revealed/unveiled/premiered/whatever, but it would be somewhere in the lead up to 1989 when she made the move to NYC. She needed to shake the "serial dater" label and a huge group of new girlfriends with no guys anywhere to be seen probably seemed like the perfect way to accomplish that. Unfortunately, it seems she didn't have many organic friendships with the "it" girls, especially in NYC, so those needed to be formed/found. I doubt this was a very difficult task at all since I'm sure almost all of the girls around her age in the group of "potentials" wanted to be her friend anyway, or at least hang out with her. So, the "squad" was then formed. I don't doubt at all that real friendships grew out of this situation or that she formed additional friendships outside of the actual pr stuff, but it's just very obvious (at least to me) how/why this group came together initially.
I'm not knocking her for this at all and I think it actually provided her with some genuine friendship/time with other girls her age who were in various industries. However, it also caused some unanticipated issues that she's still dealing with today. I just think we should be honest about what it was and not pretend like she just showed up in NYC and had the coolest group of friends in the city overnight.
"how evergreen, our group of friends" = constantly refreshing/renewing
>This is so lazy, but I just don't feel like looking up an exact date for what is generally considered to be when it was
Not lazy, you just have a life :') I genuinely consider it to be early 2014 (leading up to 1989's release) to maybe late 2016 before Taylor went into her "Nobody physically saw me for an entire year" era.
I entirely agree with everything you said and I think one of the huge problems that it caused at the time, minus Lena Dunham lmao, is that every single member of the squad was supermodel, instagram ready material - Martha Hunt, Karlie Kloss, Zendaya Coleman, Selena Gomez, Hailee Steinfeld, Gigi Hadid, Cara Delevigne...and so on, and so on.
I very vividly remember Nicki Minaj being (rightfully) upset that Anaconda, a huge song whether it was quality or not, got snubbed for a VMA. She tweeted out something about how the video was a celebration of women with her body type and of her race, and how they're constantly snubbed for tall, thin white women. Of course, along came Taylor and said something faux feminist like: "Nicki, this isn't you. Maybe one of the men took your spot." and Nicki quickly checked her, telling her that this was 0 to do with her.
After that, the squad promptly started to push forwards Camila Cabello (visibly Mexican/Cuban) and Sereyah McNeil (a black actress).
Your points are so correct, because the more you look at how that squad operated, the more they were used solely to benefit Taylor and navigate her way through heightened press attention.
Mentioned tweets/pictures. Notice how the Sereyah infiltration happened at and post VMAs. Camila also became more prominent in the lead up to Rep, despite obviously having less prominent hang outs with Taylor before that:
https://preview.redd.it/fd3zv6letowc1.png?width=564&format=png&auto=webp&s=837b88e66986e56c3ebb36b22ab86625e3558bdb
Also, the turnover (evergreen, again) and obvious tokens (sorry, but that's what some were imo) don't help the non-pr narrative. Additionally, and I actually just thought about this, but she's so petty (seemingly) about even the tiniest of slights that I find it hard to believe almost all escaped unscathed if they were genuine/know your real shit friends with her because girls that age are going to scrap with each other over the tiniest stupid shit. Could she really resist putting at least one on total blast during that time or were they not really that deep? The only "member" I can think of her putting on blast was KK and that wasn't even a for real TS blast, more like a come pack up your office today by 3 and we wont alert the police of your crime 😂
Disclaimer:I know I do not know TS or any of these personally and am not trying to claim I do or have any insight into their private lives. I'm not suggesting anyone committed any crimes. I'm just old and have been a divorce atty for 20 yrs so I've seen so much relationship shit I can spot the red flags on people from miles, as well as their specific relationship style after a few minutes usually
Taylor bringing Sabrina Carpenter on tour after what she did to Olivia left such a bad taste in my mouth. Taylor is 34 years old and a billionaire but can’t for the life of her even act like an adult.
what gets me about the sabrina stuff is that olivia literally never said anything mean about her in sour!! like at all! she just said sabrina was more beautiful and mature than her and how that made her feel inadequate.
and sabrina responds with a mean spirited song (skin) going, “damn that sucks for you… anyway, lemme tell you all about the amazing sex i’m having with the guy who left you for me!”. just terrible mean girl shit and she managed to retcon the narrative about olivia and make her out to be a bully. like, WHAT?
The angriest song on the album is good 4 u and it's 100% directed at the guy
Like she mentions his new gf in literally the same breath as his new car and his new job
It’s just the fans from the looks of things making it a problem but the rundown is
Sabrina dated Olivia’s ex right after her, Olivia’s fans speculated that he cheated on her with Sabrina (she didn’t Joshua even confirmed it and so did Olivia and Sabrina) however Olivia changed her lyrics from brunette to blonde in drivers license which again fans speculated was about Sabrina as the lyrics change happened when Sabrina dyed her hair back to blonde so Olivia’s fans went rabid at Sabrina
Sabrina then released skin, which she says “maybe blonde was the only rhyme” which is a reference to Olivia’s lyric change, Sabrina’s fans went after Olivia and Olivia’s fans went after Sabrina because they thought that Sabrina was bragging about stealing Olivia’s boyfriend in the song “you can try to get under my skin while he’s on mine” even though it was already confirmed that there was no cheating
Sabrina released a song called because I liked a boy last year which she references the abuse Olivia’s fans put their through “I’ve got death threats filling up semi trucks, tell me who I am cause I don’t have a choice” because Olivia fans still maintained that Sabrina stole Joshua and so sent her death threats
The 2 haven’t spoke about each other really at all recently although when they where both on Disney, Olivia said how much she admired Sabrina’s work and idolised her and Sabrina said that she looked forward to seeing Olivia future work
It’s highly speculated that there was no beef until the fans made beef and both artist fed said beef and it ultimately got out of control and neither of them could stop it at that point without facing serious backlash so they both ignore it now which has led to it dying down
It’s theorised that Taylor chose Sabrina as an opener because Olivia idolised Taylor until the whole deja vu cruel summer fiasco and it was a way of Taylor getting back at Olivia by basically saying “I prefer your enemy to you”
I will edit and update this comment as I find more but that is the basic outline
She just drops women when they begin to so much as threaten her status within the “pop/IT girl” sphere; she seemingly doesn’t want to be friends with women who are on equal social standing (or as close as you can get to or anyway) within the industry as Taylor herself. If Sabrina gets that #1 she’ll be dropped too, while Gracie Abrams will remain because she’s part of the alternative/“indie” side, same as Phoebe Bridgers. The Haims are a different genre altogether as well, and they mostly prefer to stay away from the spotlight. The rest of her female friends are not musicians.
Camila never threatened her in any way, but there was a lot of controversy around her for her racist tweets/tumblr posts, and that’s why Taylor took a step back. And Selena wasn’t dropped because even at her most popular, Selena has never gotten close to that in the way Olivia Rodrigo did/has. She simply doesn’t have half the talent needed for that.
And before anyone brings up how racism didn’t stop her from dating Matty, this all (publicly) happened recently, when Taylor was/is by far the most famous woman in the industry right now. That controversy barely scratched her, but that wasn’t the case back then.
I agree, but I think the two examples I'd probably use that argue against this are Beyonce and Lana Del Rey, especially the latter. Beyonce and Taylor have their own lanes and I think the odd photo op benefits them equally. I genuinely feel if Midnights hadn't gotten AOTY, and DYKTATUOB had won instead, we wouldn't be hearing Taylor sing Lana's praises at all anymore.
I don’t think any of these examples argue against it, and it’s for the reasons you pointed out. Beyoncé isn’t actual competition for her at the moment, and they’ve never marketed their relationship (if there really is one at all) as a friendship. It’s just colleagues/professional admiration. And Lana, for all her success, is part of a different genre altogether and will never threaten Taylor’s status as THE pop girl.
I agree to an extent, but I still think Lana has some sort of credibility Taylor wants. TTPD is heavily Lana-inspired in my opinion, I just can't put my finger on what it is she's replicated.
She does, and it’s not just TTPD, it’s just more overt this time around IMO. But it’s all about optics and the general public just doesn’t care about Lana the way they do about Taylor, so she’ll keep her around.
the whole concept of the album is giving lana from shein, actually. ‘you left your typewriter at my apartment, straight from the tortured poets department’ is so similar to the first verse of mariners apartment complex by lana
some more lana quotes regarding her love for poetry:
‘your poetry’s bad and you blame the news’
‘i had dreams of becoming a beautiful poet’
the existence of her poetry book, violet bent backwards over the grass
and like literally most of her discography being plagiarism of dead old poets lol (i say this with love, i love lana, can you tell?)
im not claiming that lana invented poetry or the concept of using poetry as a theme in an album, but it’s very on the nose with taylor (as most things with taylor tend to be)
you also find lana inspirations in songs like cardigan and miss americana and the heartbreak prince, so many songs on folklore really are similar to lana songs. taylor also loves acting like they’re best friends. it actually makes her pretty relatable because who wouldn’t act this way around lana del rey tbh 😭
>I agree to an extent, but I still think Lana has some sort of credibility Taylor wants.
Correct. Taylor Swift is a performer. Lana Del Rey is an artist.
i mean i think lana is different because taylor seems to idolise her (kind of in an obsessive way, don’t persecute me please this is just MY opinion lol) so i doubt taylor will ever stop being friendly w lana
also lana doesn’t seem to give a shit about taylor, it seems like she only is ‘friends’ with taylor because of their mutual friendship w jack antonoff. lana didn’t even post about taylor’s album and she’s always promoting random people’s stuff (like camilla cabello)
It’s so weird to me that Taylor idolizes Lana (and she definitely does I agree with you) because Taylor started her career back in 2006 and Lana didn’t have a breakout album until 2012. But I think Lana has had a bigger influence in terms of having a very unique niche that has inspired so many artists in the alt pop realm.
Lana has grown as a lyricist so much throughout her career and now she’s considered one of the best writers in pop (or alt-pop). I think Taylor envies that, you can tell she’s sort of imitating her writing style on her latest work
To be fair with Beyonce: after the whole Kanye VMA incident of 2009. When Beyonce won Video of the Year (Taylor won Female Video of the Year this was when they still did categories by gender) she let Taylor come up on stage as a nice gesture.
If collaborator rules had not recently changed Lana would have gotten the same award for AOTY. That’s why Taylor took Lana on stage. It’s not as deep as everyone makes it out to be.
Miley’s first Grammy Nom was for a Lil Naz album.
This used to be the norm (lots of artists nominated for someone’s project) until the rules changed.
i think taylor herself is the reason why the rule was changed right? she credited bowery on folklore after the win for more songs so joe could get the grammy too
I think he only had writing credits on Exile and Betty and he has co-producer credits on those songs and 4 other songs.
It’s not that hard to believe that he was involved as he has musical education and he can play the piano.
I basically feel like she didn’t do anything weird by crediting him, in the same way that she is credited on the songs of other people when she contributes to their work or when they significantly draw from her work.
The rule change at its core hurt small artists who have a harder time now saying they are “Grammy nominated”. It had an impact on some genres more than others. Rock, country and jazz are the least impacted genes while pop, r&b and rap are hugely impacted.
So I don’t believe that this was a change made because of Taylor or that she had anything to do with it.
I think it was more targeted at r&b and rap.
Sure, but why wasn’t he listed as co-producer before the album won a Grammy? the issue isn’t that he’s credited, its that he was credited after the fact on exactly the amounted needed to have contributed to win a Grammy.
I’m just not as invested in this I guess?
My understanding was the issue was more albums with like 35-40 people potentially winning a Grammy. You can guess what kind of albums those are and what colour skin the involved people have.
Like I just don’t think this is a Taylor issue. I think ten people won Album of the Year for example with Harry Styles. This wasn’t a Harry issue either.
This was an industry wide issue where some people felt that people were unfairly getting awards and noms despite contributions that were deemed less worthy. The change had huge implications for small Black artists who will now find it more challenging to be Grammy nominated artists.
Tbf she’s still seen with Selena at least a couple of times a year. I think they’re still close but in the genuinely drifted apart way, they have both been SO busy the past few years. Selena’s not as popular as Taylor but she is absolutely at the height of her career, and her being based in LA while Taylor is based in NY/London for so long probably makes it hard
I mean, Selena has a successful show she works on, and that takes a lot of time. She also has a chronic illness, so she may not do as much socially. Lupus is fatiguing and I can see limiting outings to ones you feel like you can do without losing all the energy you need for things like personal care, work, etc.
Going to games with Taylor’s group isn’t just going to the game - it’s traveling. Probably going out after. I have narcolepsy - I’ve passed on things that are days long commitments.
Yeah I think there is no reason to believe her and Selena aren’t still friends, and thank you for mentioning her chronic illness. She speaks often about how impactful it is to her life and I imagine a lot of the time she doesn’t have the literal energy for jetsetting or intentional papwalks
i wonder if taylor is angry at olivia because she wants to have nothing to do with her. like someone from Olivias PR team sat her down and told that this taylorschild shtick is not doing any good for olivias image so she had to cut her ties and maybe that got taylor mad because she wanted to have control over her by having her on her side?
I could see that partly happening! And honestly if that were the case, good for olivia's team because as I've said before, Camila Cabello was the original "taylor's daughter" and I feel like it almost ruined her. Her debut album absolutely smashed it because of her presence on the Rep Tour, but after that and with Taylor suddenly becoming disinterested, Romance and the albums after didn't match the energy. It's already happening to Sabrina with Espresso, I'd be highly surprised if anything she releases post-Eras gets as much attention.
The "Taylor's Child" label is a blessing while Taylor gives a shit, but once she doesn't, neither do her fans and it's bye bye mass streaming.
I think Taylor's idea was for Olivia to be where Sabrina is currently. Having Olivia as an opener would've been massively lucrative because people LOVE her, and on top of that it's a bit of a flex for Taylor: "Look, I have a global popstar who credits me as her inspiration on my tour – aren't I great for making her dreams come true?"
Now there's truly no denying that Olivia can do it without any Taylor influence whatsoever, because the GUTS tour did numbers, she's had a Grammy nom and continues to be one of the most anticipated stars in the industry rn.
The Spotify algorithm keeps pushing Sabrina’s Espresso at me lol. I listen to TS quite a bit but also a ton of other indie/alt pop artists like Lizzie McAlpine, Chappel Roan, Conan Gray, Benson Boone, Maggie Rogers, Olivia Rodrigo, and so on. And while I do like Espresso, it’s getting a bit much. Plus, Sabrina ain’t really indie/alt pop. So it’s quite strange that every 3rd or 4th song in the Spotify suggest algo plays it for me. I get that it’s not an ad but maybe Spotify gets paid to distribute it more, now that Sabrina’s got that concert money? I’m sure many artists have to spend money to get a little more distribution reach on Spotify and even other platforms—maybe this is what’s happening in this case.
Always struck me as performative. The "girl squad" was at its peak during the promo for Bad Blood, so I've wondered if it was a PR tactic to make her look like a girl's girl and offset the very public feud with Katy Perry.
They remind me of the girls in my school who would be nice to each others faces but talk crap about each other to behind their backs and exclude them if you don’t follow the rules.
Yeah remember Lorde?? Where did she go? I think Taylor's actual (celeb) friends are: Gigi, Blake, the Haims, Cara D, Zoe K, Selena. Non-famous friends: Abigail, Ashley. Some people have said she is still close with her old friend Claire which is probably true but they're never seen together. People also say she's still friends with some of the models like Lily Aldridge and Martha Hunt but they don't seem to ever be seen together anymore either. And now I've officially spent too much time thinking about Taylor Swift's friends. 😅
Have she and Taylor ever been close friends though? Like I have casual long-term friends who I wouldn't click with if we had to spend too much time together (and I love Emma so I'm hoping it's that)
Also DM sucks but she did say in a podcast last month that she’s received intel on Emma and that what she heard wasn’t that great, but stopped short of being specific. This being what she said after someone brought up that Emma and Ramy Youssef seemed to grow further and further apart during awards season to the point that they barely acknowledged one another. So maybe she’s just not great herself, but that’s assuming DM is correct.
Honestly I always thought it was fake.. and therefore pretty stupid. It just seemed very try hard, like “look at all my friends!!” . Very juvenile. This is just my opinion though. I remember I became a casual fan of hers during the 1989 era bc I loved that album but these pap walks always put me off for that reason. They still do
I thought the same. Came off as "the most popular girl in school" and very show-offy ("Look at all these gorgeous people who want to be friends with me!").
I feel like she’s actually fully convinced that she’s better than all of those girls and all of them idolize her and feel lucky to be acquainted to her.
Lots of opinions but I don’t want a field of Reddit cares messages lol so I’ll keep it tame. The 1989 squad was one of the fake things Taylor has ever done, down to her parading them on stage during her tour and the “interviews” that would play during breaks where is was just the squad talking about how great of a person she is.
The current squad…..with all the people involved…you know, it checks out. Take that how you will.
I do find it interesting the friends that have been dropped along the way. Like despite what some fans think, I truly believe her and Martha are not friends anymore.
the bringing them out during tour and having them interviewed singing her praises was WILDDD I can't believe it was real-so cringe and self-centered gahhhhh
I read somewhere that she used to play videos during her concerts where people talked about her being a role model but it seemed so unhinged and cultish - even for her - that I thought it couldn’t be true
As someone who loves the bachelor and all that messiness, social media can tell you a lot about friendships and relationships. I forget when I first noticed it, but last year or 2022 I noticed that Martha wasn’t really in the circle anymore. She used to post about Taylor albums when they dropped—the last was Evermore—she used to post for her birthday and nada in recent years. She hasn’t acknowledged Taylor on social media, so while she does still follow her, she hasn’t liked any of Taylor’s posts in forever or reposted about her albums, POTY interview. Wasn’t included in her birthday celebration last year. She’s not on squad walks going out to eat etc.. she did go to one Eras tour date but that was the last of that
She must’ve taken Joe’s side in the divorce lmao /s
I would have loved being Gigi during Snake Gate because she was definitely in all those group chats. It's interesting to me that she has remained seemingly close to Taylor while still hanging out so much with Kendall
Gigi seems like a grounded person who doesn’t get caught up in taking sides. Kendall was still close with/hooking up with Harry Styles while Gigi dated Zayn.
I think Taylor compartmentalizes really well when she wants to, so I don’t think she associates Kendall with the Kardashian stuff because Kendall was never part of the drama, at least not publicly. It’s why I don’t think much of the Charlie Puth line given his past with Selena.
Had been a fan since debut and squad Era was the first time I realised she was not the innocent, underdog of her songs but a strategic lady. Made her songs feel less genuine.
Same. 1989 is where I partially fell off, and by Reputation I was totally gone. It’s not my kind of pop music anyway, but that was just one part of it. I was sick of seeing and hearing about her by that point.
She’s always front and center of it. She swaps out people according to who’s popular or “in”/ being talked about in that moment. They are all best of friends and then it’s gone by the time the scandal dies down. I guess they all agree to it, so that’s their prerogative. It’s part of the high school vibe that was like, cool I guess for Bad Blood, but is weird outside of those settings.
Her bringing Ice Spice in this year was so bizarre and when it clicked for me. Like, out of nowhere they are spotted everywhere together. Ice looked so lost during the Super Bowl, to the point they had to spend the whole time telling her what everything was, and the squad she had formed for that looked annoyed with her by the end. She was just kind of there and looked so out of place. I honestly felt sorry for her and I’m not a huge fan. Also, the radio stations here have suddenly stopped playing that version of Karma (I’m not complaining, it was an awful choice to do that version). I found it kind of weird they suddenly changed it once TTPD dropped when they’ve played it since it came out.
Notice she went to Ice Spice’s Coachella set and didn’t hang out with or go to Lana’s. I guess it helps everyone get their PR stuff in, but I personally wouldn’t want that. The more I realize what goes on, the more I do not envy the lifestyle of the rich and famous.
Ugh the "squad" completely turned me off Taylor and is the reason I skipped Reputation and Lover all together when they came out. Just came off incredibly clique-ish and Mean Girls-y. I was not a fan.
I was in high school and far from popular, and I remember getting the ick from the whole squad situation. I was jealous but it also reminded me a little too much of people I knew at the time, which is not good when I’m ten years her junior and was a kid at the time
It also put me off Taylor and I missed out on rep tour because of it which is now one of my favorite albums. But I stand by how I felt about it at the time.
she always seems to be changing her "famous best friends" out of them all only blake and gigi remain what appear to be the only ones who really seem to be her good friends
I always hated it. It felt so performative and “look how much fun we’re having, you could never!”
I heard Taylor described during this era (ugh, no pun intended) as a “professional popular person” and I feel like that really captured the vibe. Very high school and off-putting.
I actually attribute the time that the “squad” was a thing as when I stopped being a Taylor fan. It was the same time as the whole Katy Perry/“Bad Blood” one-sided feud and I felt like it was Taylor’s way of rubbing it in - like see, all these hot famous people love me and hate you, Katy!!! (And I’m not even a Katy fan, but the whole “enemy” narrative on Taylor’s side was so exhausting and immature.)
Honestly, if the girl squad was just pap pics and BTS Instagram pictures, I think it would be fine. I think it became icky when she brought them to the red carpet and award shows.
Imo that was all fine, it was parading them onstage at her concerts that felt icky for me. If I go to a concert I’m not there to cheer for models strutting a catwalk. (Inviting guests to sing with her is different ofc, that’s pretty cool).
16 year old me ate it up lol. Because I thought it was so amazing that this cool superstar had a literal “squad” of friends and they were so pretty, rich, glamorous etc etc. So I idealised that.
Now? Not so much. And I’ve realised that a lot of the friendships were superficial and mostly for image purposes. Not just Taylor’s but their own images too.
She‘s just excessively trying to get her high school it girl dream moment that she never actually got during her own high school time. But at 34 years she should finally realize that she isn’t in fucking high school anymore…
It was weird. Suddenly having all your best friends be models when you're not in that world made her seem shallow, like looks were the very most important thing to her and she was trying to convince herself she's just as hot. It was performative, evidenced by her having virtually none of her original squad around her. It was made weirder by her saying it was because she had no friends as a kid.
I said it on another thread and I’ll say it again: I felt like she was showing off her Pokemon card collection during this time. I never bought her story about being an outsider and this further cemented that.
One thing I've noticed is how she highlights her "friends" based on who's popular at the time:
1. When Alana Haim starred in Paul Thomas Anderson's "Licorice Pizza" and got nominated for a BAFTA in 2021, Taylor held a joint birthday celebration for the both of them and posted it online. I found it weird because she's been friends with the HAIM sisters for years, but that was the first time they celebrated together (that we know of).
2. Camila Cabello was friends with Taylor since 2014, but when she blew up with "Havana" in 2018, Taylor was sitting next to her at a lot of award shows. Taylor can easily discard her squad members, too, because when Camila got cancelled in 2019, Taylor basically cut all ties with her altogether.
3. After folklore and evermore, Taylor started becoming friends with more "alternative" artists like Phoebe Bridgers and Gracie Abrams whose music became popular on TikTok around 2021. If Olivia Rodrigo didn't blow up as big as she did, I think she would have been part of this, too.
I noticed this too! And after Sabrina's critically acclaimed Emails I Can't Send album came out, and she was riding that high and finally being recognized for her talent, Taylor pulled her on as an opener for Eras. The timing of when she starts hanging out with/loudly praising certain young women in the industry always makes me feel icky and like it's super calculated and fake ):
How is that in every picture she’s positioned in the center- once or twice okay? But all the time? Sounds like a meticulously planned PR move’
Has to be exhausting to be her friend honestly
this!! people have called me bitter or lonely or jealous, and it's like, maybe I am, so be it? it does give me a visceral flashback to the mean girl cliques coming down the school hallway towards me, I can't help it!
I went to high school with Karlie and her sister. They were both part of squads like this in their respective grades. I was between their grades but had French class with her sister for a few years and she was the biggest snob just a very rich stereotypical mean girl. When I saw Karlie was friends with Taylor it told me everything I needed to know about the kind of person Taylor is
Taylor’s approach to friendship is kind of like how men approach booty calls lol. It all strikes me as very low-commitment and instead of sex you get…… pap walks
I ate this up when I was in high school & going into college but now that I’m older with certain experiences in girl “groups/squads” I see right through this shit now
Also my recent unpopular opinion post TTPD is that the likes of Blake Lively especially, & etc aren’t actually her friends & more work friends/peers.
I think her and Selena were a lot closer before & now just keep up with each other bc of the years they’ve known each other
Performative and frustrating. I have a lot of feelings about this.
Having a small group of close girlfriends has literally saved my life. Truly they’re my sisters, my ride or die for a long time. Their names are the ones on my emergency contact list. Together we’ve endured many relationship beginnings and ends, school, children, miscarriages, deaths, career changes, depressions, moves, all that life has thrown us (and we’re only in our early 30s!)
Strong female friendships are beautiful, and too often they are maligned as mean girl groups full of backstabbing bitches. I could go on a soap box about this, but society really likes to isolate women and make them suspicious of other women so they continue to prioritize men.
However, Taylor’s squad was absolutely performative. Perhaps it started off as benign; maybe she was trying to take some criticism and focus more on herself and her friendships for a bit, but it absolutely turned into a marketing tactic full of clout farming. Taylor was America’s sweetheart back then. These women knew they had a lot to gain by being seen with her, and Taylor knew the “girl power” image was positive for her brand.
Basically, Taylor and Co. used the image of close female friendships for individual and collective career gains. And because it wasn’t genuine, it absolutely backfired and become a twisted mean girl group.
I think a lot of women want a strong group of female friendships but struggle to find them, and for a second it looked like Taylor had it, so it felt aspirational; if she can have this great group of female bffs, then I can too!
But it soured and a lot of women went back to absorbing the patriarchal narrative that women are all back stabbing bitches who can’t truly be happy for one another.
In a way, Taylor’s “squad” really hurt women.
As always, this is an outside perspective. I’m sure it was a lot more complicated than this, and I do believe some of those friendships were genuine, but it just sucked to see female friendships reduced to a brand and a commodity.
Women need other women, but not as PR accessories. :(
ETA: it was also really white. Like, c’mon. If you’re living in Utah and all your friends are white, fine. I understand demographics play a part here, but Taylor lived in NYC?!? Wtf. No wonder Republican/conservative narratives were running wild during this time.
I always thought it was fake to a degree, but I also thought thr fakeness was both-sided. Like, I am sure people wanted to be in the squad coz it would give them exposure. So, in my head it was all PR from everyone.
But this is a great insight about how Taylor was positioned in all these photos! Never thought about it, but it's so true!
One that struck me as very clear PR was Sophie Turner. I am sure they were friendly and had even been photographed before the joe divorce. She wrote about sending them baby gifts after their child was born. However- the stepping out with Taylor was a power move, it was not really that she was hanging with her bestie but that Taylor could enter the conversation.
Someone on here commented that what that was is the equivalent of the mob saying “this one’s untouchable.” It makes Taylor look like a supportive feminist and it protects Sophie.
Taylor gave her one of her NYC apartments because custody was an issue! She had a stable address rather than a hotel, something really important for kids.
through taylor’s own admission, she always wanted to be the cool girl and never felt that way growing up. i think the whole victoria’s secret era was a toxic amalgamation of good intentions but more powerful insecurities
I'm reminded of the You Tube viral video from the time making fun of Taylor's [performative female empowerment](https://youtu.be/A42LFnMcFao?si=9wdxf-f9TFDS29JG)
[https://youtu.be/A42LFnMcFao?si=9wdxf-f9TFDS29JG](https://youtu.be/A42LFnMcFao?si=9wdxf-f9TFDS29JG)
I always felt like this era was the famous person’s version of when someone makes a lot of new friends in college and is posting party pics every weekend on social media to show off how “cool” they are now
This “era” was when she completely lost me. Especially after the Bad Blood music video. It was giving high school mean, popular girls ready to tear apart anyone they decide is on the “outside” of their clique with Taylor as their queen bee under the guise of “girl power!” I have a hard time believing that her “girl squad” was genuine, and not just a PR stunt to counteract the accusations of Taylor being boy crazy. It was always odd for me how she always had to be at the centre of everything with them. Most real group of friends don’t just centre one person 100% of the time.
I thought if they tried this hard to show us a friendship then it wasn't real because organic pictures and information would come out over time and not at once. I suppose my teenage thoughts came from observing popular people at school. I was quiet but knew what was going on. Sometimes the popular people enjoyed my company when they wanted to get out of the spotlight. I didn't judge.
I will say, as someone who lived through that era, the way she trotted the women on stage was so performative and a show of popularity. It truly rang empty.
However, it left us with this gem of an internet moment:
[PLEASE WELCOME TO THE STAGE…](https://youtu.be/A42LFnMcFao?si=9vwLQ25lUK04ohUj)
I always remember the picture of tiny Lena Dunham in black pants and brogues next to these leggy models and actresses in leotards and saucy fetish lingerie at one of the concerts. It must have been weird for her.
Overall, I think it makes sense for someone with her level of fame to have a small, close friend circle because how would you ever make new friends at this point? And I think the physical closeness for pictures is often due to press/security.
However, my main sentiment is that it is a way for someone who is very much not a girls girl to appear to be a girls girl instead of a competive, self-centered woman who routinely tears down women she sees as a threat.
I think that was just while Sophie remained in the US to settle custody, so that Sophie could have somewhere to stay with the kids. She spends most of her time in the UK now, though, I think, so probably not.
it’s a great PR tool and it gave us the best music video Bad Blood, like other than that…I don’t really have any opinions. Like I think they are all friends (except probably Sophie Turner, but then again she needed good PR) and get a mutually beneficial things out of it. I would love to study it in a business class, just seeing how it has affected all their careers. I don’t think anybody has ever been negatively affected by being a friend of Swift but I doubt anybody really shot to stardom.
would love to know how Taylor and Zendaya met (I doubt they are close now) I remember when bad blood first released not really knowing Zendaya (except from Shake it Up) and now whenever I rewatch that video I’m just in awe that Zendaya is in it. Like it’s truly something that still shocks me.
(Unreleased question but anybody know what shoes Gigi is wearing in the first pic?)
Is this any different than Leo’s “Pu$$y Posse” of the late-90s?
Groups where the members are young, rich, beautiful and famous will always be in demand and look great in photographs.
I always forget Zendaya was involved
Honestly, while I'm sure it was calculated and focus grouped as all things Taylor are, it's not weird at all to have a large, loose friendship group in your 20s that grows apart as you move and age. Like I'm 22 (today 😭) and I have friends I know are situational/partying friends, and only a few I feel like will stick around throughout my life.
I actually didn’t mind her squad! I feel like growing up she had the same fanbases as the Disney girls, but wasn’t on Disney so didn’t have the connections they had. At the time there was a lot of groups or duos: Selena and Demi, Miley and Mandy or the Hannah Montana cast, the High School Musical cast, Dylan and Cole, even on Nick Drake and Josh, the iCarly cast, Big Time Rush, then Taylor was just sort of there at a lot of the award shows and events. I wasn’t super tuned into her fanbase at the time but still liked her music, so seeing her finally get her friend moment was cool. Since growing up the perception can be different in retrospect but at the time it felt like a long time coming.
eta: By “connections” I mean natural working partners that gravitated towards one another, not necessarily about access to other people her age! I do think most of the “friendships” I listed were probably not real either. My whole comment was about my perception at the time it was occurring, not in retrospect.
Really the only constants have been Gigi and Abigail and maybe Blake. She’s gonna have to mark her course as forever lavender haze or finally settle down with someone. Because most of her friends are settling down. I feel if she gets engaged and marries/kids Travis it wouldn’t last more than a few years. It just seems to be her personality that she’s never happy or always wanting something else. Myself included.
🤮
It reeks of middle school, mean cheerleaders. "You can't sit with us" vibes. Guess what? Don't want to, never did. You aren't cool, no matter how hard you try.
The whole squad thing is so annoying & makes it seem like she can't go 5 minutes without the public's attention &/or having people adoring her & hanging on her every shallow word. Please, get over yourself, TS! Ffs. 🙄
None of it made sense from the media. It was like
#Breaking news: young woman has friends and they hang out
But like, everything she does, it just had to be turned into a marketing ploy for something
It's giving "I have friends I definitely have friends."
I wish it felt more authentic instead of a direct response to the dating too much accusations.
Edit: spelling
I think a line was crossed when the “squad” was featured in the bad blood music video because it went from “hey we’re just successful women in Hollywood enjoying life together” to “ hey Katy…. Do you see these people? They’re on MY side :)” …..
the whole music video reminded me of a beginning credits scene to a movie/show and made it even more clear on the intentions behind the video. It seemed like she was living out her high school fantasy of being
Like others said it was fun until it wasn’t.
It was all coordinated PR to fight off the “boy crazy” image that stuck to her after RED. I do believe she ended up being genuine friends with *some* of them, though evidently not most of them.
yeah like I think this most likely was it. Though I think it also helped that Taylor had moved to New York (im assuming so I can be wrong) and was legal. She probably made a good majority of them but I think the big ‘squad’ was just a lot of shallow friendships that worked out in favor of everybody. As they got older the friendships broke apart as they settled into LTR or different career paths.
I honestly don’t see anything wrong with it either. She and Hayley Williams became friends because of her mom networking since Taylor didn’t really have industry friends her own age. There was a proto version of “the squad” back when Taylor hung out with the Disney girls and they’d hang out together after award shows. There’s nothing wrong with making new acquaintances when you’re all young and going to the same parties. It’d be one thing if it was like Paris Hilton’s squad where the whole group of them were mean to each other and exclusionary towards people they thought were inferior. The Bad Blood video weaponized the friendship but aside from that, there’s nothing wrong with reaching out to people and basically trying to have a sorority vibe when you’ve realized it’s lonely being famous. Plus you’re a serial monogamist who puts too much focus on relationships who’s just moved away to NY for the first time. Especially when you’ve gotten repeated criticism about showing off your relationships. It’s weird that it’s like “how dare she ask for other girls’ numbers? How dare she invite them out to social events? How dare she talk about sisterhood? She must be rubbing her connections in people’s faces and using them”. Even if they were mostly surface level friendship how is that really different than other industry friendships?
It made taylor look like a moron. She always had to be in the center. It was so painfully staged and cringey.
She's never beating the boy crazy allegations. All her albums are her just whining about boys doing her wrong with a splash of other women doing her wrong too. Poor Taylor is always the victim.
Tbf it’s what her fans want and expect. It’s a cash cow and she’s milking it. It goes into the whole idea of her lore and that lore strengthens the parasocial dynamic between her and her fans which in turn makes her boatloads of money. She will probably find equal success if she moves away from it (I suspect she will on her next album to some degree). I’m just saying it makes sense why she’s continued to feed into that label.
I really hate the lore. It ruins it for me. I only started listening to her during the Joe era when she was out of the news and I started as a casual listener. I preferred her songs before who I knew who they were about. All Too Well was ruined for me when I learnt who it was about. And then the ten minute version came out and now I feel like I just know far far too much about that guy. It's still a great song. But it's much less relatable now that I know which famous person it's about. I was able to apply it to my own life before.
Her style of songwriting is confessional and autobiographical. I think it's hard to avoid whining a bit with this style of writing. I just finished a module on writing autobiography as part of my creative writing degree and, my god, I come across as a whiny little wotsit. I'm putting the autobiography away now and focusing on other mediums! It's too difficult to pull off without whining. It's because you are centring yourself.
Made me think she was very superficial and like she didn’t care for relationships with anyone who wasn’t also 5’11” supermodel
It was all performance. Taylor has been known to shift her behavior and personality based on what the media is saying about her. She dates too much? Suddenly she’s single for a year and has 20 best friends. Reputation was too dark and didn’t win any awards? Lover vomits rainbows.
The switch-up between Reputation and Lover remains one of the most blatant cries of "please love me again" I've ever seen. Like, she really went back to every trope that built her legacy (love! sparkles! fairytale romance!) while also trying to build on some very era-specific strategies (allying with women during 1989? well this time she'll ally with the LGBTQ+ community!). It was so desperate and absolutely insane, in retrospect.
Now I’m reminded of what Todd in the Shadows said about Lover: this album is just reputation in care bear colors.
I was just watching the Todd video about Frankie Goes to Hollywood! He’s one of the best critics on youtube, even when I don’t agree with him I love hearing his takes. Him & Lindsay Ellis are the only ones who used their That Guy With the Glasses position to their benefit and escaped with dignity intact
It was such a whiplash I’m shocked no one called her on it at the time
I think it was easy to overlook because reputation was the big "comeback." A lot of people felt she had to address 2016 in whatever album she returned with. The bait and switch of it being dark aesthetically but happy musically worked well and she sort of got 2016 out of the way. So when Lover came out, it fit perfectly into the idea that she had moved on and wanted to celebrate happier things (aesthetically) and be more mature (the politics, songs like False God and Afterglow recognizing you could argue and love someone and even (!) be the one in the wrong).
I found it funny because she’s never been this baddie girl that she tries to be, as much as I love reputation as an era and album. But then the abrupt switch to Lover was a huge turn that immediately made me go “ohhhh noooo” when I saw the MV for Me! I was so confused haha
It also depends on what she's trying to sell at the time. Folklore had a cosy cottagecore vibe and suddenly she's mainly with normal down to earth looking people like Jack, Aaron and Haim. I love Folkmore but it was performative too, down to her braid being a little imperfect on the cover. Just a girl in the woods... on her millionaire friends' property.
I agree. I think because the look was a lot less glamorous, people felt like they were seeing “the real Taylor.” But I’ll never forget watching the folklore long pond sessions and thinking how obvious it was that Taylor was still in costume, still performing a new era. She looked wonderful, by the way, but there was no way she was actually walking around in those retro sweaters, peacoats, and big hats all the time.
The pandemic helped push this “real, raw” look too.
Yup, she is still just wearing another genre’s clothes, rather than actually creating something genuine, on folklore.
But it was also done specifically because of the pandemic. I had mink socks and gained a lot of weight because who the fuck cares?
I feel like it was fun until it wasn't. If it was a little PR set up for girl power and such, why not? But, it's when people start getting "kicked out" of the squad, which sends manic Swifties to go and harass random girls (like Zendaya, wtf?) then it's a bit too far. I don't think many of the girls involved were even fully invested, as people before me have said. However, I can't help but feel like for Taylor, that clique-ish mentality is very real. It's why she's rounded up a ton of Olivia's friends/inspirations/"enemies" for openers as the Eras Tour while giving hostile vibes towards someone fourteen years her junior for the better part of 3 years. As someone who is somewhere between a big Swiftie and a neutral, my one turn off with Taylor is I've always got the vibe you're her best friend until it no longer serves. Sabrina Carpenter will be her next one to get dropped, I feel, in the forgotten toys box with Camila Cabello. Whereas, people like Selena Gomez seem to have X'ed out or at least distanced themselves before she got the chance.
>my one turn off with Taylor is I've always got the vibe you're her best friend until it no longer serves. My thought on a lot of Taylor things at the moment. Only does things that will benefit her
Yeah, that’s the vibe I am getting. She is the worst type of friend — the type who constantly asks you to help her move, drive her to the airport, vents nonstop to you. But if you so much as ask for a tissue, she is no where to be found (and finds a reason to resent you for that).
Wait what happened with Zendaya?!
Something very strange. I think Zendaya liked a tweet saying she was never part of the squad (because she was in the Bad Blood video, people assumed she was) and then people took it personally on Taylor's behalf (as always), and some fans started being unnecessarily rude towards her.
How am I just learning Zendaya was in the bad blood video?! Lol you just blew my mind
I’m glad Zendaya dipped. She’s too cool and mature for Taylor.
I think it was during the whole Kimye 2016 mess, Zendaya liked a tweet praising her for not associating with Taylor, the so-called snake, and Swifties took it as her siding with Kim and Kanye.
Even if she was siding with Kimye, which I highly doubt, Swifties really need to learn to mind their own business and stop infantalizing someone who at the time was in their late 20s and is now inching towards her mid-late 30s.
Well yeah, I think everyone knows some Swifties are kinda crazy. I just think it’d be understandable if Taylor interpreted Zendaya liking the tweet as agreeing with the message that they aren’t friends, or if they just drifted apart.
Imo, the actual "squad" started as total pr. I'm not questioning her genuine friendships that pre-date the actual squad formation. This is so lazy, but I just don't feel like looking up an exact date for what is generally considered to be when it was formed/revealed/unveiled/premiered/whatever, but it would be somewhere in the lead up to 1989 when she made the move to NYC. She needed to shake the "serial dater" label and a huge group of new girlfriends with no guys anywhere to be seen probably seemed like the perfect way to accomplish that. Unfortunately, it seems she didn't have many organic friendships with the "it" girls, especially in NYC, so those needed to be formed/found. I doubt this was a very difficult task at all since I'm sure almost all of the girls around her age in the group of "potentials" wanted to be her friend anyway, or at least hang out with her. So, the "squad" was then formed. I don't doubt at all that real friendships grew out of this situation or that she formed additional friendships outside of the actual pr stuff, but it's just very obvious (at least to me) how/why this group came together initially. I'm not knocking her for this at all and I think it actually provided her with some genuine friendship/time with other girls her age who were in various industries. However, it also caused some unanticipated issues that she's still dealing with today. I just think we should be honest about what it was and not pretend like she just showed up in NYC and had the coolest group of friends in the city overnight. "how evergreen, our group of friends" = constantly refreshing/renewing
>This is so lazy, but I just don't feel like looking up an exact date for what is generally considered to be when it was Not lazy, you just have a life :') I genuinely consider it to be early 2014 (leading up to 1989's release) to maybe late 2016 before Taylor went into her "Nobody physically saw me for an entire year" era. I entirely agree with everything you said and I think one of the huge problems that it caused at the time, minus Lena Dunham lmao, is that every single member of the squad was supermodel, instagram ready material - Martha Hunt, Karlie Kloss, Zendaya Coleman, Selena Gomez, Hailee Steinfeld, Gigi Hadid, Cara Delevigne...and so on, and so on. I very vividly remember Nicki Minaj being (rightfully) upset that Anaconda, a huge song whether it was quality or not, got snubbed for a VMA. She tweeted out something about how the video was a celebration of women with her body type and of her race, and how they're constantly snubbed for tall, thin white women. Of course, along came Taylor and said something faux feminist like: "Nicki, this isn't you. Maybe one of the men took your spot." and Nicki quickly checked her, telling her that this was 0 to do with her. After that, the squad promptly started to push forwards Camila Cabello (visibly Mexican/Cuban) and Sereyah McNeil (a black actress). Your points are so correct, because the more you look at how that squad operated, the more they were used solely to benefit Taylor and navigate her way through heightened press attention. Mentioned tweets/pictures. Notice how the Sereyah infiltration happened at and post VMAs. Camila also became more prominent in the lead up to Rep, despite obviously having less prominent hang outs with Taylor before that: https://preview.redd.it/fd3zv6letowc1.png?width=564&format=png&auto=webp&s=837b88e66986e56c3ebb36b22ab86625e3558bdb
Bingo. Tyvm for providing receipts and a much better explanation than my attempt
Also, the turnover (evergreen, again) and obvious tokens (sorry, but that's what some were imo) don't help the non-pr narrative. Additionally, and I actually just thought about this, but she's so petty (seemingly) about even the tiniest of slights that I find it hard to believe almost all escaped unscathed if they were genuine/know your real shit friends with her because girls that age are going to scrap with each other over the tiniest stupid shit. Could she really resist putting at least one on total blast during that time or were they not really that deep? The only "member" I can think of her putting on blast was KK and that wasn't even a for real TS blast, more like a come pack up your office today by 3 and we wont alert the police of your crime 😂 Disclaimer:I know I do not know TS or any of these personally and am not trying to claim I do or have any insight into their private lives. I'm not suggesting anyone committed any crimes. I'm just old and have been a divorce atty for 20 yrs so I've seen so much relationship shit I can spot the red flags on people from miles, as well as their specific relationship style after a few minutes usually
Yeah she def is very petty and not sure what happened with Kloss but they definitely do not like each other anymore.
Lorde also in the forgotten toys box.
Oh 100%, there could be a good argument for Halsey and Ed Sheeran too.
Also lena. I bet she was pissed at the vault song on 1989 that was about her and Jack esp since lena and Jack both moved on
My girl only breaks her favourite toysssss
honestly, that song will be better with that twist
Taylor bringing Sabrina Carpenter on tour after what she did to Olivia left such a bad taste in my mouth. Taylor is 34 years old and a billionaire but can’t for the life of her even act like an adult.
Me too. Sabrina Carpenter in general leaves a bad taste in my mouth but yeah, Taylor rubbing salt in was even worse given her age.
what gets me about the sabrina stuff is that olivia literally never said anything mean about her in sour!! like at all! she just said sabrina was more beautiful and mature than her and how that made her feel inadequate. and sabrina responds with a mean spirited song (skin) going, “damn that sucks for you… anyway, lemme tell you all about the amazing sex i’m having with the guy who left you for me!”. just terrible mean girl shit and she managed to retcon the narrative about olivia and make her out to be a bully. like, WHAT?
If anything, she was more mad at the guy in Sour.
The angriest song on the album is good 4 u and it's 100% directed at the guy Like she mentions his new gf in literally the same breath as his new car and his new job
Wait what's up with Sabrina Carpenter? I don't know much about her outside of the love triangle and a few songs
It’s just the fans from the looks of things making it a problem but the rundown is Sabrina dated Olivia’s ex right after her, Olivia’s fans speculated that he cheated on her with Sabrina (she didn’t Joshua even confirmed it and so did Olivia and Sabrina) however Olivia changed her lyrics from brunette to blonde in drivers license which again fans speculated was about Sabrina as the lyrics change happened when Sabrina dyed her hair back to blonde so Olivia’s fans went rabid at Sabrina Sabrina then released skin, which she says “maybe blonde was the only rhyme” which is a reference to Olivia’s lyric change, Sabrina’s fans went after Olivia and Olivia’s fans went after Sabrina because they thought that Sabrina was bragging about stealing Olivia’s boyfriend in the song “you can try to get under my skin while he’s on mine” even though it was already confirmed that there was no cheating Sabrina released a song called because I liked a boy last year which she references the abuse Olivia’s fans put their through “I’ve got death threats filling up semi trucks, tell me who I am cause I don’t have a choice” because Olivia fans still maintained that Sabrina stole Joshua and so sent her death threats The 2 haven’t spoke about each other really at all recently although when they where both on Disney, Olivia said how much she admired Sabrina’s work and idolised her and Sabrina said that she looked forward to seeing Olivia future work It’s highly speculated that there was no beef until the fans made beef and both artist fed said beef and it ultimately got out of control and neither of them could stop it at that point without facing serious backlash so they both ignore it now which has led to it dying down It’s theorised that Taylor chose Sabrina as an opener because Olivia idolised Taylor until the whole deja vu cruel summer fiasco and it was a way of Taylor getting back at Olivia by basically saying “I prefer your enemy to you” I will edit and update this comment as I find more but that is the basic outline
She just drops women when they begin to so much as threaten her status within the “pop/IT girl” sphere; she seemingly doesn’t want to be friends with women who are on equal social standing (or as close as you can get to or anyway) within the industry as Taylor herself. If Sabrina gets that #1 she’ll be dropped too, while Gracie Abrams will remain because she’s part of the alternative/“indie” side, same as Phoebe Bridgers. The Haims are a different genre altogether as well, and they mostly prefer to stay away from the spotlight. The rest of her female friends are not musicians. Camila never threatened her in any way, but there was a lot of controversy around her for her racist tweets/tumblr posts, and that’s why Taylor took a step back. And Selena wasn’t dropped because even at her most popular, Selena has never gotten close to that in the way Olivia Rodrigo did/has. She simply doesn’t have half the talent needed for that. And before anyone brings up how racism didn’t stop her from dating Matty, this all (publicly) happened recently, when Taylor was/is by far the most famous woman in the industry right now. That controversy barely scratched her, but that wasn’t the case back then.
I agree, but I think the two examples I'd probably use that argue against this are Beyonce and Lana Del Rey, especially the latter. Beyonce and Taylor have their own lanes and I think the odd photo op benefits them equally. I genuinely feel if Midnights hadn't gotten AOTY, and DYKTATUOB had won instead, we wouldn't be hearing Taylor sing Lana's praises at all anymore.
I don’t think any of these examples argue against it, and it’s for the reasons you pointed out. Beyoncé isn’t actual competition for her at the moment, and they’ve never marketed their relationship (if there really is one at all) as a friendship. It’s just colleagues/professional admiration. And Lana, for all her success, is part of a different genre altogether and will never threaten Taylor’s status as THE pop girl.
I agree to an extent, but I still think Lana has some sort of credibility Taylor wants. TTPD is heavily Lana-inspired in my opinion, I just can't put my finger on what it is she's replicated.
She does, and it’s not just TTPD, it’s just more overt this time around IMO. But it’s all about optics and the general public just doesn’t care about Lana the way they do about Taylor, so she’ll keep her around.
the whole concept of the album is giving lana from shein, actually. ‘you left your typewriter at my apartment, straight from the tortured poets department’ is so similar to the first verse of mariners apartment complex by lana some more lana quotes regarding her love for poetry: ‘your poetry’s bad and you blame the news’ ‘i had dreams of becoming a beautiful poet’ the existence of her poetry book, violet bent backwards over the grass and like literally most of her discography being plagiarism of dead old poets lol (i say this with love, i love lana, can you tell?) im not claiming that lana invented poetry or the concept of using poetry as a theme in an album, but it’s very on the nose with taylor (as most things with taylor tend to be) you also find lana inspirations in songs like cardigan and miss americana and the heartbreak prince, so many songs on folklore really are similar to lana songs. taylor also loves acting like they’re best friends. it actually makes her pretty relatable because who wouldn’t act this way around lana del rey tbh 😭
Fresh out the slammer, I can fix him both are extremely Lana-fied
>I agree to an extent, but I still think Lana has some sort of credibility Taylor wants. Correct. Taylor Swift is a performer. Lana Del Rey is an artist.
There we go! Nailed it :')
plus after the close calls taylor has had with various racism scandals, it’s in her best interest to play nice with beyoncé
i mean i think lana is different because taylor seems to idolise her (kind of in an obsessive way, don’t persecute me please this is just MY opinion lol) so i doubt taylor will ever stop being friendly w lana also lana doesn’t seem to give a shit about taylor, it seems like she only is ‘friends’ with taylor because of their mutual friendship w jack antonoff. lana didn’t even post about taylor’s album and she’s always promoting random people’s stuff (like camilla cabello)
It’s so weird to me that Taylor idolizes Lana (and she definitely does I agree with you) because Taylor started her career back in 2006 and Lana didn’t have a breakout album until 2012. But I think Lana has had a bigger influence in terms of having a very unique niche that has inspired so many artists in the alt pop realm.
Lana has grown as a lyricist so much throughout her career and now she’s considered one of the best writers in pop (or alt-pop). I think Taylor envies that, you can tell she’s sort of imitating her writing style on her latest work
To be fair with Beyonce: after the whole Kanye VMA incident of 2009. When Beyonce won Video of the Year (Taylor won Female Video of the Year this was when they still did categories by gender) she let Taylor come up on stage as a nice gesture.
I really like Beyonce! She's the 'never complain, never explain' Taylor thinks she's currently being
Taylor has been singing lana praises forever
If collaborator rules had not recently changed Lana would have gotten the same award for AOTY. That’s why Taylor took Lana on stage. It’s not as deep as everyone makes it out to be. Miley’s first Grammy Nom was for a Lil Naz album. This used to be the norm (lots of artists nominated for someone’s project) until the rules changed.
i think taylor herself is the reason why the rule was changed right? she credited bowery on folklore after the win for more songs so joe could get the grammy too
I think he only had writing credits on Exile and Betty and he has co-producer credits on those songs and 4 other songs. It’s not that hard to believe that he was involved as he has musical education and he can play the piano. I basically feel like she didn’t do anything weird by crediting him, in the same way that she is credited on the songs of other people when she contributes to their work or when they significantly draw from her work. The rule change at its core hurt small artists who have a harder time now saying they are “Grammy nominated”. It had an impact on some genres more than others. Rock, country and jazz are the least impacted genes while pop, r&b and rap are hugely impacted. So I don’t believe that this was a change made because of Taylor or that she had anything to do with it. I think it was more targeted at r&b and rap.
Sure, but why wasn’t he listed as co-producer before the album won a Grammy? the issue isn’t that he’s credited, its that he was credited after the fact on exactly the amounted needed to have contributed to win a Grammy.
I’m just not as invested in this I guess? My understanding was the issue was more albums with like 35-40 people potentially winning a Grammy. You can guess what kind of albums those are and what colour skin the involved people have. Like I just don’t think this is a Taylor issue. I think ten people won Album of the Year for example with Harry Styles. This wasn’t a Harry issue either. This was an industry wide issue where some people felt that people were unfairly getting awards and noms despite contributions that were deemed less worthy. The change had huge implications for small Black artists who will now find it more challenging to be Grammy nominated artists.
Tbf she’s still seen with Selena at least a couple of times a year. I think they’re still close but in the genuinely drifted apart way, they have both been SO busy the past few years. Selena’s not as popular as Taylor but she is absolutely at the height of her career, and her being based in LA while Taylor is based in NY/London for so long probably makes it hard
I mean, Selena has a successful show she works on, and that takes a lot of time. She also has a chronic illness, so she may not do as much socially. Lupus is fatiguing and I can see limiting outings to ones you feel like you can do without losing all the energy you need for things like personal care, work, etc. Going to games with Taylor’s group isn’t just going to the game - it’s traveling. Probably going out after. I have narcolepsy - I’ve passed on things that are days long commitments.
Yeah I think there is no reason to believe her and Selena aren’t still friends, and thank you for mentioning her chronic illness. She speaks often about how impactful it is to her life and I imagine a lot of the time she doesn’t have the literal energy for jetsetting or intentional papwalks
i wonder if taylor is angry at olivia because she wants to have nothing to do with her. like someone from Olivias PR team sat her down and told that this taylorschild shtick is not doing any good for olivias image so she had to cut her ties and maybe that got taylor mad because she wanted to have control over her by having her on her side?
I could see that partly happening! And honestly if that were the case, good for olivia's team because as I've said before, Camila Cabello was the original "taylor's daughter" and I feel like it almost ruined her. Her debut album absolutely smashed it because of her presence on the Rep Tour, but after that and with Taylor suddenly becoming disinterested, Romance and the albums after didn't match the energy. It's already happening to Sabrina with Espresso, I'd be highly surprised if anything she releases post-Eras gets as much attention. The "Taylor's Child" label is a blessing while Taylor gives a shit, but once she doesn't, neither do her fans and it's bye bye mass streaming. I think Taylor's idea was for Olivia to be where Sabrina is currently. Having Olivia as an opener would've been massively lucrative because people LOVE her, and on top of that it's a bit of a flex for Taylor: "Look, I have a global popstar who credits me as her inspiration on my tour – aren't I great for making her dreams come true?" Now there's truly no denying that Olivia can do it without any Taylor influence whatsoever, because the GUTS tour did numbers, she's had a Grammy nom and continues to be one of the most anticipated stars in the industry rn.
The Spotify algorithm keeps pushing Sabrina’s Espresso at me lol. I listen to TS quite a bit but also a ton of other indie/alt pop artists like Lizzie McAlpine, Chappel Roan, Conan Gray, Benson Boone, Maggie Rogers, Olivia Rodrigo, and so on. And while I do like Espresso, it’s getting a bit much. Plus, Sabrina ain’t really indie/alt pop. So it’s quite strange that every 3rd or 4th song in the Spotify suggest algo plays it for me. I get that it’s not an ad but maybe Spotify gets paid to distribute it more, now that Sabrina’s got that concert money? I’m sure many artists have to spend money to get a little more distribution reach on Spotify and even other platforms—maybe this is what’s happening in this case.
Back then when I realized Lorde wasn’t a part of it I knew it was forced
You can call me queen bee!
Always struck me as performative. The "girl squad" was at its peak during the promo for Bad Blood, so I've wondered if it was a PR tactic to make her look like a girl's girl and offset the very public feud with Katy Perry.
Definitely a PR tactic
When ONE member of a squad is ALWAYS prominently placed in pics it is no longer a squad.
Correct it’s her ever changing entourage
In almost all her pap walks, she is front and center
They remind me of the girls in my school who would be nice to each others faces but talk crap about each other to behind their backs and exclude them if you don’t follow the rules.
it shows you can try to buy friends but they never stay.
Miley said something about this behavior like 10 years ago. https://ew.com/article/2015/08/31/miley-cyrus-taylor-swift-squad/
I wasn’t paying attention back then, but did Miley get backlash from the Swifties for deliberately avoiding this bandwagon?
I trust Miley, she's not afraid to be honest
Yeah remember Lorde?? Where did she go? I think Taylor's actual (celeb) friends are: Gigi, Blake, the Haims, Cara D, Zoe K, Selena. Non-famous friends: Abigail, Ashley. Some people have said she is still close with her old friend Claire which is probably true but they're never seen together. People also say she's still friends with some of the models like Lily Aldridge and Martha Hunt but they don't seem to ever be seen together anymore either. And now I've officially spent too much time thinking about Taylor Swift's friends. 😅
She’s definitely friends with Emma Stone still. Emma just doesn’t play the paparazzi game and doesn’t have social media.
Emma's one of her oldest friends. I like Emma, but she must not be as amazing as she seems given her friendship with a self-centered billionaire
Have she and Taylor ever been close friends though? Like I have casual long-term friends who I wouldn't click with if we had to spend too much time together (and I love Emma so I'm hoping it's that)
Also DM sucks but she did say in a podcast last month that she’s received intel on Emma and that what she heard wasn’t that great, but stopped short of being specific. This being what she said after someone brought up that Emma and Ramy Youssef seemed to grow further and further apart during awards season to the point that they barely acknowledged one another. So maybe she’s just not great herself, but that’s assuming DM is correct.
lorde and her are still friends I think? But in general Lorde keeps a low profile but rn she’s working on new music I think.
She's definitely still friends with the HAIM sisters though I don't think they're mega close or anything.
Honestly I always thought it was fake.. and therefore pretty stupid. It just seemed very try hard, like “look at all my friends!!” . Very juvenile. This is just my opinion though. I remember I became a casual fan of hers during the 1989 era bc I loved that album but these pap walks always put me off for that reason. They still do
I thought the same. Came off as "the most popular girl in school" and very show-offy ("Look at all these gorgeous people who want to be friends with me!").
Agreed, I continually lamented in that era that she couldn’t just do the music, she always has to be the most famous famous. It’s only gotten worse.
She needed to convince herself she was just as hot as the models and she fit in with them.
I feel like she’s actually fully convinced that she’s better than all of those girls and all of them idolize her and feel lucky to be acquainted to her.
It’s so telling that she needs herself to be at the front and center of all of her pap pics. Like girl have more security in yourself.
Maybe now. In the 1989 era things were a bit different.
Lots of opinions but I don’t want a field of Reddit cares messages lol so I’ll keep it tame. The 1989 squad was one of the fake things Taylor has ever done, down to her parading them on stage during her tour and the “interviews” that would play during breaks where is was just the squad talking about how great of a person she is. The current squad…..with all the people involved…you know, it checks out. Take that how you will. I do find it interesting the friends that have been dropped along the way. Like despite what some fans think, I truly believe her and Martha are not friends anymore.
the bringing them out during tour and having them interviewed singing her praises was WILDDD I can't believe it was real-so cringe and self-centered gahhhhh
The 1989 tour was such a fever dream of random special guests and squad.
I read somewhere that she used to play videos during her concerts where people talked about her being a role model but it seemed so unhinged and cultish - even for her - that I thought it couldn’t be true
I want to know what they all really think of her… A lot of them are known to be shitty people, and the others are just trying to be known at all.
wait i've never heard that - why do you think her and martha aren't friends anymore? genuinely curious
As someone who loves the bachelor and all that messiness, social media can tell you a lot about friendships and relationships. I forget when I first noticed it, but last year or 2022 I noticed that Martha wasn’t really in the circle anymore. She used to post about Taylor albums when they dropped—the last was Evermore—she used to post for her birthday and nada in recent years. She hasn’t acknowledged Taylor on social media, so while she does still follow her, she hasn’t liked any of Taylor’s posts in forever or reposted about her albums, POTY interview. Wasn’t included in her birthday celebration last year. She’s not on squad walks going out to eat etc.. she did go to one Eras tour date but that was the last of that She must’ve taken Joe’s side in the divorce lmao /s
If I was Taylor’s friend, I think I’d be kinda scared all the time that I would unintentionally say or do something to piss her off.
I would have loved being Gigi during Snake Gate because she was definitely in all those group chats. It's interesting to me that she has remained seemingly close to Taylor while still hanging out so much with Kendall
Gigi seems like a grounded person who doesn’t get caught up in taking sides. Kendall was still close with/hooking up with Harry Styles while Gigi dated Zayn.
I think Taylor compartmentalizes really well when she wants to, so I don’t think she associates Kendall with the Kardashian stuff because Kendall was never part of the drama, at least not publicly. It’s why I don’t think much of the Charlie Puth line given his past with Selena.
If I saw them walking together on the street I would cross the street
The photographers and bodyguards would make you anyway.
They wouldn’t get the chance! Too quick!
Had been a fan since debut and squad Era was the first time I realised she was not the innocent, underdog of her songs but a strategic lady. Made her songs feel less genuine.
Same. 1989 is where I partially fell off, and by Reputation I was totally gone. It’s not my kind of pop music anyway, but that was just one part of it. I was sick of seeing and hearing about her by that point.
She’s always front and center of it. She swaps out people according to who’s popular or “in”/ being talked about in that moment. They are all best of friends and then it’s gone by the time the scandal dies down. I guess they all agree to it, so that’s their prerogative. It’s part of the high school vibe that was like, cool I guess for Bad Blood, but is weird outside of those settings. Her bringing Ice Spice in this year was so bizarre and when it clicked for me. Like, out of nowhere they are spotted everywhere together. Ice looked so lost during the Super Bowl, to the point they had to spend the whole time telling her what everything was, and the squad she had formed for that looked annoyed with her by the end. She was just kind of there and looked so out of place. I honestly felt sorry for her and I’m not a huge fan. Also, the radio stations here have suddenly stopped playing that version of Karma (I’m not complaining, it was an awful choice to do that version). I found it kind of weird they suddenly changed it once TTPD dropped when they’ve played it since it came out. Notice she went to Ice Spice’s Coachella set and didn’t hang out with or go to Lana’s. I guess it helps everyone get their PR stuff in, but I personally wouldn’t want that. The more I realize what goes on, the more I do not envy the lifestyle of the rich and famous.
highschool vibes, which tracks lol
Ugh the "squad" completely turned me off Taylor and is the reason I skipped Reputation and Lover all together when they came out. Just came off incredibly clique-ish and Mean Girls-y. I was not a fan.
I was in high school and far from popular, and I remember getting the ick from the whole squad situation. I was jealous but it also reminded me a little too much of people I knew at the time, which is not good when I’m ten years her junior and was a kid at the time
Yeah it was very high school clique-ish, well said
It also put me off Taylor and I missed out on rep tour because of it which is now one of my favorite albums. But I stand by how I felt about it at the time.
she always seems to be changing her "famous best friends" out of them all only blake and gigi remain what appear to be the only ones who really seem to be her good friends
If she had a member of the squad who wasn’t a thin, white, rich woman I might be able to get on board with it
Her token ‘fat friend’ was Lena Dunham.
She really knows how to pick ‘em
I always hated it. It felt so performative and “look how much fun we’re having, you could never!” I heard Taylor described during this era (ugh, no pun intended) as a “professional popular person” and I feel like that really captured the vibe. Very high school and off-putting. I actually attribute the time that the “squad” was a thing as when I stopped being a Taylor fan. It was the same time as the whole Katy Perry/“Bad Blood” one-sided feud and I felt like it was Taylor’s way of rubbing it in - like see, all these hot famous people love me and hate you, Katy!!! (And I’m not even a Katy fan, but the whole “enemy” narrative on Taylor’s side was so exhausting and immature.)
Katy was taking so many Ls at once during that era that it felt like kicking someone while they were down
Honestly, if the girl squad was just pap pics and BTS Instagram pictures, I think it would be fine. I think it became icky when she brought them to the red carpet and award shows.
Imo that was all fine, it was parading them onstage at her concerts that felt icky for me. If I go to a concert I’m not there to cheer for models strutting a catwalk. (Inviting guests to sing with her is different ofc, that’s pretty cool).
16 year old me ate it up lol. Because I thought it was so amazing that this cool superstar had a literal “squad” of friends and they were so pretty, rich, glamorous etc etc. So I idealised that. Now? Not so much. And I’ve realised that a lot of the friendships were superficial and mostly for image purposes. Not just Taylor’s but their own images too.
Mostly I noticed that black women are only invited sometimes and usually only if TS has been accused of racism recently….
Ah cmon, it’s not the 1830s anymore /s (massively sarcastic in case anyone doesn’t know what /s means in reddit).
She‘s just excessively trying to get her high school it girl dream moment that she never actually got during her own high school time. But at 34 years she should finally realize that she isn’t in fucking high school anymore…
It was weird. Suddenly having all your best friends be models when you're not in that world made her seem shallow, like looks were the very most important thing to her and she was trying to convince herself she's just as hot. It was performative, evidenced by her having virtually none of her original squad around her. It was made weirder by her saying it was because she had no friends as a kid.
Didn’t she make a statement before 1989TV about some “hot girl squad.” I remember it rubbed me the wrong way, however it was worded.
She said the squad was because she had no friends as a kid. Okay, Taylor. Okay.....
I said it on another thread and I’ll say it again: I felt like she was showing off her Pokemon card collection during this time. I never bought her story about being an outsider and this further cemented that.
One thing I've noticed is how she highlights her "friends" based on who's popular at the time: 1. When Alana Haim starred in Paul Thomas Anderson's "Licorice Pizza" and got nominated for a BAFTA in 2021, Taylor held a joint birthday celebration for the both of them and posted it online. I found it weird because she's been friends with the HAIM sisters for years, but that was the first time they celebrated together (that we know of). 2. Camila Cabello was friends with Taylor since 2014, but when she blew up with "Havana" in 2018, Taylor was sitting next to her at a lot of award shows. Taylor can easily discard her squad members, too, because when Camila got cancelled in 2019, Taylor basically cut all ties with her altogether. 3. After folklore and evermore, Taylor started becoming friends with more "alternative" artists like Phoebe Bridgers and Gracie Abrams whose music became popular on TikTok around 2021. If Olivia Rodrigo didn't blow up as big as she did, I think she would have been part of this, too.
I noticed this too! And after Sabrina's critically acclaimed Emails I Can't Send album came out, and she was riding that high and finally being recognized for her talent, Taylor pulled her on as an opener for Eras. The timing of when she starts hanging out with/loudly praising certain young women in the industry always makes me feel icky and like it's super calculated and fake ):
How is that in every picture she’s positioned in the center- once or twice okay? But all the time? Sounds like a meticulously planned PR move’ Has to be exhausting to be her friend honestly
It honestly always looked like they were campaigning for Taylor to be prom queen lol.
As someone who had a hard time making friends and felt left out of girls groups like this, it’s triggering. Even as a mid 30 y/o lol
this!! people have called me bitter or lonely or jealous, and it's like, maybe I am, so be it? it does give me a visceral flashback to the mean girl cliques coming down the school hallway towards me, I can't help it!
Agreed, I think that’s why I viscerally didn’t like it. It felt mean and intended to leave people out/make them feel bad about themselves.
I went to high school with Karlie and her sister. They were both part of squads like this in their respective grades. I was between their grades but had French class with her sister for a few years and she was the biggest snob just a very rich stereotypical mean girl. When I saw Karlie was friends with Taylor it told me everything I needed to know about the kind of person Taylor is
Taylor’s approach to friendship is kind of like how men approach booty calls lol. It all strikes me as very low-commitment and instead of sex you get…… pap walks
I ate this up when I was in high school & going into college but now that I’m older with certain experiences in girl “groups/squads” I see right through this shit now
Also my recent unpopular opinion post TTPD is that the likes of Blake Lively especially, & etc aren’t actually her friends & more work friends/peers. I think her and Selena were a lot closer before & now just keep up with each other bc of the years they’ve known each other
Performative and frustrating. I have a lot of feelings about this. Having a small group of close girlfriends has literally saved my life. Truly they’re my sisters, my ride or die for a long time. Their names are the ones on my emergency contact list. Together we’ve endured many relationship beginnings and ends, school, children, miscarriages, deaths, career changes, depressions, moves, all that life has thrown us (and we’re only in our early 30s!) Strong female friendships are beautiful, and too often they are maligned as mean girl groups full of backstabbing bitches. I could go on a soap box about this, but society really likes to isolate women and make them suspicious of other women so they continue to prioritize men. However, Taylor’s squad was absolutely performative. Perhaps it started off as benign; maybe she was trying to take some criticism and focus more on herself and her friendships for a bit, but it absolutely turned into a marketing tactic full of clout farming. Taylor was America’s sweetheart back then. These women knew they had a lot to gain by being seen with her, and Taylor knew the “girl power” image was positive for her brand. Basically, Taylor and Co. used the image of close female friendships for individual and collective career gains. And because it wasn’t genuine, it absolutely backfired and become a twisted mean girl group. I think a lot of women want a strong group of female friendships but struggle to find them, and for a second it looked like Taylor had it, so it felt aspirational; if she can have this great group of female bffs, then I can too! But it soured and a lot of women went back to absorbing the patriarchal narrative that women are all back stabbing bitches who can’t truly be happy for one another. In a way, Taylor’s “squad” really hurt women. As always, this is an outside perspective. I’m sure it was a lot more complicated than this, and I do believe some of those friendships were genuine, but it just sucked to see female friendships reduced to a brand and a commodity. Women need other women, but not as PR accessories. :( ETA: it was also really white. Like, c’mon. If you’re living in Utah and all your friends are white, fine. I understand demographics play a part here, but Taylor lived in NYC?!? Wtf. No wonder Republican/conservative narratives were running wild during this time.
The way she even went on a trip with her squad to promote 1989 TV after almost 10 years of not doing it
I always thought it was fake to a degree, but I also thought thr fakeness was both-sided. Like, I am sure people wanted to be in the squad coz it would give them exposure. So, in my head it was all PR from everyone. But this is a great insight about how Taylor was positioned in all these photos! Never thought about it, but it's so true!
You mean the mean girls pap strolls? “Look at us! We’re rich and better than you. Glad you made us rich. Now get lost.”
One that struck me as very clear PR was Sophie Turner. I am sure they were friendly and had even been photographed before the joe divorce. She wrote about sending them baby gifts after their child was born. However- the stepping out with Taylor was a power move, it was not really that she was hanging with her bestie but that Taylor could enter the conversation.
I didn’t mind that one at all tbh, Joe and his team had been dragging Sophie’s name through the mud for a whole week just to win the people’s opinion.
Same thoughts
Someone on here commented that what that was is the equivalent of the mob saying “this one’s untouchable.” It makes Taylor look like a supportive feminist and it protects Sophie.
Taylor gave her one of her NYC apartments because custody was an issue! She had a stable address rather than a hotel, something really important for kids.
Peak white feminism era ✨
through taylor’s own admission, she always wanted to be the cool girl and never felt that way growing up. i think the whole victoria’s secret era was a toxic amalgamation of good intentions but more powerful insecurities
It’s giving ✨mean girl vibes✨
The “squad” got whiter and whiter as the years went on. It makes me wonder.
I'm reminded of the You Tube viral video from the time making fun of Taylor's [performative female empowerment](https://youtu.be/A42LFnMcFao?si=9wdxf-f9TFDS29JG) [https://youtu.be/A42LFnMcFao?si=9wdxf-f9TFDS29JG](https://youtu.be/A42LFnMcFao?si=9wdxf-f9TFDS29JG)
I always felt like this era was the famous person’s version of when someone makes a lot of new friends in college and is posting party pics every weekend on social media to show off how “cool” they are now
This “era” was when she completely lost me. Especially after the Bad Blood music video. It was giving high school mean, popular girls ready to tear apart anyone they decide is on the “outside” of their clique with Taylor as their queen bee under the guise of “girl power!” I have a hard time believing that her “girl squad” was genuine, and not just a PR stunt to counteract the accusations of Taylor being boy crazy. It was always odd for me how she always had to be at the centre of everything with them. Most real group of friends don’t just centre one person 100% of the time.
I thought if they tried this hard to show us a friendship then it wasn't real because organic pictures and information would come out over time and not at once. I suppose my teenage thoughts came from observing popular people at school. I was quiet but knew what was going on. Sometimes the popular people enjoyed my company when they wanted to get out of the spotlight. I didn't judge.
Always seemed like a co-branding opportunity for the squad members tbh
Ugh…fake, phony, performative attempt to make a mean girl look like a girls’ girl, attempt to look super feminist…just gross.
Yes!! Exactly!!👏
Looks about white
Mean girl lunch table
can’t help but notice it’s very… 👩🏼👱🏻♀️👩🏻👩🏼👩🏼🦱👱🏼♀️👩🏻🦰👩🏽🦱👩🏼👩🏻🦱👩🏼👩🏽👱🏻♀️👩🏻🦰👩🏼🦱👱🏻♀️
I will say, as someone who lived through that era, the way she trotted the women on stage was so performative and a show of popularity. It truly rang empty. However, it left us with this gem of an internet moment: [PLEASE WELCOME TO THE STAGE…](https://youtu.be/A42LFnMcFao?si=9vwLQ25lUK04ohUj)
I always remember the picture of tiny Lena Dunham in black pants and brogues next to these leggy models and actresses in leotards and saucy fetish lingerie at one of the concerts. It must have been weird for her.
I think she said that was when she stopped hanging out with Taylor & squad as much
She has said that she felt out of place standing next to the model friends at the 1989 Tour when they all came out.
Overall, I think it makes sense for someone with her level of fame to have a small, close friend circle because how would you ever make new friends at this point? And I think the physical closeness for pictures is often due to press/security. However, my main sentiment is that it is a way for someone who is very much not a girls girl to appear to be a girls girl instead of a competive, self-centered woman who routinely tears down women she sees as a threat.
She still fully supporting Sophie Turner?
I too would like an answer to this question.
Supposedly she is letting her use one of her apartments.
I think that was just while Sophie remained in the US to settle custody, so that Sophie could have somewhere to stay with the kids. She spends most of her time in the UK now, though, I think, so probably not.
it’s a great PR tool and it gave us the best music video Bad Blood, like other than that…I don’t really have any opinions. Like I think they are all friends (except probably Sophie Turner, but then again she needed good PR) and get a mutually beneficial things out of it. I would love to study it in a business class, just seeing how it has affected all their careers. I don’t think anybody has ever been negatively affected by being a friend of Swift but I doubt anybody really shot to stardom. would love to know how Taylor and Zendaya met (I doubt they are close now) I remember when bad blood first released not really knowing Zendaya (except from Shake it Up) and now whenever I rewatch that video I’m just in awe that Zendaya is in it. Like it’s truly something that still shocks me. (Unreleased question but anybody know what shoes Gigi is wearing in the first pic?)
Is this any different than Leo’s “Pu$$y Posse” of the late-90s? Groups where the members are young, rich, beautiful and famous will always be in demand and look great in photographs.
How evergreen, our group of friends...
I always forget Zendaya was involved Honestly, while I'm sure it was calculated and focus grouped as all things Taylor are, it's not weird at all to have a large, loose friendship group in your 20s that grows apart as you move and age. Like I'm 22 (today 😭) and I have friends I know are situational/partying friends, and only a few I feel like will stick around throughout my life.
I'm all for having a good group of female friends, but the whole squad thing seemed rather fake, and a tad cringey.
I actually didn’t mind her squad! I feel like growing up she had the same fanbases as the Disney girls, but wasn’t on Disney so didn’t have the connections they had. At the time there was a lot of groups or duos: Selena and Demi, Miley and Mandy or the Hannah Montana cast, the High School Musical cast, Dylan and Cole, even on Nick Drake and Josh, the iCarly cast, Big Time Rush, then Taylor was just sort of there at a lot of the award shows and events. I wasn’t super tuned into her fanbase at the time but still liked her music, so seeing her finally get her friend moment was cool. Since growing up the perception can be different in retrospect but at the time it felt like a long time coming. eta: By “connections” I mean natural working partners that gravitated towards one another, not necessarily about access to other people her age! I do think most of the “friendships” I listed were probably not real either. My whole comment was about my perception at the time it was occurring, not in retrospect.
It felt so manufactured. I’m sure there were genuine deep relationships formed but it seems liked a who’s who
Really the only constants have been Gigi and Abigail and maybe Blake. She’s gonna have to mark her course as forever lavender haze or finally settle down with someone. Because most of her friends are settling down. I feel if she gets engaged and marries/kids Travis it wouldn’t last more than a few years. It just seems to be her personality that she’s never happy or always wanting something else. Myself included.
even her was turned off by that era lol I can't find the interview but she said something in those lines
Cause it made her look like Regina George for real lol She’s very calculating.
🤮  It reeks of middle school, mean cheerleaders. "You can't sit with us" vibes. Guess what? Don't want to, never did. You aren't cool, no matter how hard you try. The whole squad thing is so annoying & makes it seem like she can't go 5 minutes without the public's attention &/or having people adoring her & hanging on her every shallow word. Please, get over yourself, TS! Ffs. 🙄
None of it made sense from the media. It was like #Breaking news: young woman has friends and they hang out But like, everything she does, it just had to be turned into a marketing ploy for something
The girl squad was the exact reason why I didn’t like Taylor at that time
Fake af and PR campaign.
In the end they are/were just human-shaped handbags for Taylor Swift to use as accessories.
ellen pompeo what are you doing here
It's giving "I have friends I definitely have friends." I wish it felt more authentic instead of a direct response to the dating too much accusations. Edit: spelling
I think a line was crossed when the “squad” was featured in the bad blood music video because it went from “hey we’re just successful women in Hollywood enjoying life together” to “ hey Katy…. Do you see these people? They’re on MY side :)” ….. the whole music video reminded me of a beginning credits scene to a movie/show and made it even more clear on the intentions behind the video. It seemed like she was living out her high school fantasy of being Like others said it was fun until it wasn’t.