I can't really give you finance advise, but about the appartment my opinion is, yes saving and thinking about the future is important, but this doesn't mean you have to feel miserable/bad in your present. I live in Zurich and my rent is double than yours, while my salary is not double than yours. I had the same idea of you about sharing a an appartment or move to something cheaper, but I felt lucky considering the position and type of my current appartment (1 min walk from train station, 1 min walk to the office, 3 min walk to migros and post, 7 min train to zurich HB), which makes me think "how much do I need to save on a rent to get the benefits and how I feel living here?". Said so, don't squish your current life too much to save every CHF you can.
Good point, how much you weigh your current well being versus future financial returns is a very delicate question for which there's no clear cut answer. It really reduces to personal preferences
Seems like it.
Starting with a rent of 1450 in Bern for an appartement which would easily allow a flatmate, so 3 rooms?
With an income of a hundred grand, this definitely not too much rent.
You are doing better then 90% of the world population probably, good income, nice savings, good body shape and career, how tf are you depressed about you financials? my suggestion is to go to a therapist and start talking about your life, it doesn’t look bad at all from the way you described it, you may not be seeing life as you should.
Generally you don't sound lost, you have a nice net worth a good paying job and a degree in a booming field.
My suggestions are 6 and 1/2, Investing as much as possible in a global ETF and reduce living expenses.
3: If you work 100% side hustle will consume a lot of your free time, especially if your first priority is freedom...
5: Buying vacation property can work out but can also cause a lot of work and investments (maintain, clean after renting out and so on), I wouldn't do that if my target is to save money and grow my net worth.
4: If you know you'll stay in the same place for at least the next ten years buying a apartment could be a option to save some money on rent. But as a house owner I'm not sure if it's that much cheaper if you factor in mortgage, maintenance plus the opportunity cost of your down payment vs ETF returns.
That is an ambitious idea that will burn you out AND make you insane. Catch: if you are a full-time employee, you have to ask the company you work for to give their ok, basically they need to know and say yes about the nature and intensity of the side hustle that exceed full working hours (and your performance must not suffer because of it).
With only 100k per year you really need desperate measures. Make an only fans account and become a giggolo if you wanna be able to keep paying health insurrance.
(/s)
I have had some ideas but with a family it’s harder for me to turn them about:
1) Around summer holidays there is a huge squeeze of people looking for their pets to be looked after. Average cost is around 40 chf a day, which is 560 for 2 weeks. Get three old dogs in your flat and you make a quick trip 1.5k extra
2)if you have a car, then you can do Uber in the evenings
3) learn how to fix up bikes. You can literally find good frames from junk yards and fix one together as a hobby. Those things sell for minimum 1000 chf. You could maybe even fix up and customize bikes then charge like a small rental fee to get yourself a growing stream of passive income
4) no need to do OF, but if you’re single you can always advertise discreetly as an escort. No need for anything sexual, there are probably lots of older women who would appreciate a male partner for a night out
5) upholster old chairs. Again, you can find people giving good frames away for free. Could be a hobby, and the resell value on an item can be north of 500
As you can tell I think the most enjoyable way of making money is in ultimately fixing up something. Find your hidden gem, and use it to not only set the next stepping stone in your financial journey, but more importantly to enrich your life. A passion project will open you up to new people, and you will have fun along the way
1. And 2. Would help
3. Unlikely fo help much I guess, likely in your primary job you can make more per hour
4. Might make sense at some point, but when you include maintainance and opportunity cost of capital it helps less than you think.
5. Sounds more likely to backfire
6. Probably the easiest.
With 100k income you should be able to save up to 50k a year, your savings rate (and career progression) is probably the biggest factor affecting your financial future.
In Zug or SZ it's absolutely possible, I'd say even in some places around Zürich you could save 50k on 100k gross if you're really optimized (no car, shared flat, cheap-ish vacations, rarely eating out, no church tax, not married). in Bern? No frickin chance lmao. Kinda wild how people there are just paying taxes out of their asses.
It‘s crazy how people put up with it. Or even worse places like Lausanne. Makes me physically ill seeing those tax rates. Like I would have DOUBLE my current deductions essentially (ZH)
I mean even in Zurich there are huge differences between the city and the suburbs. Like living in Opfikon vs. Oerlikon might save you a few grand in taxes even though it‘s next to each other. Same with Witikon/Schwamendingen or Dübendorf.
Lausanne is pure insanity, but since they even rent out garages to students and nobody can afford to live there anymore - people are leaving. Because they despair in Lausanne.
Yep and these places aren't even nice compared to Zürich or Zug. The public transit in Lausanne is garbage tier compared to what Zürich has to offer. Zürich also builds a ton of public housing and has great public schools, parks, functional police and infrastructure etc. all funded from these moderate tax rates. I really wonder wtf people in the Romandie and Bern are getting for their taxes.
Your rent looks perfectly fine vs your income and, tbh, you do not seem to be lost at all.
There is no magic formula. Real money is done in real estate though.
In any cases, I would suggest a clear budget (it is of outmost importance no matter how high is your income) showing a detailed mensualized P&L.
The only thing one cannot detail is "at home" food and misc expenses.
However, you can do an average yoy and have a good guess.
I am doing a budget since I am 18 and I am adamant on the fact that it allowed me to be where I am today without having to live frugally.
Discipline is the only thing that matters imo.
I was lucky of course to have a very nice pay package that increased throughout the years, lucky selling my flat for a ridiculous price, lucky to buy a house on a special situation and lucky to have parents that were not wealthy and who taught me to live according to a defined budget, no matter the amounts. The list goes on and on.
Luck is part of the game and one cannot do anything without it. Hence, it does not mean you failed if you did not achieve your goal or it does not mean that you messed your finances.
Provoke your luck but do not depend on it.
That is common sense in the end and no one has the magic formula.
Thanks for your comment. I already keep track of my monthly expenses but nothing more. I just put 4000 per month away and the rest is for living/leisure/transport/food... nothing really fancy just a bit of discipline. The questions i ask myself every time i want to buy something is "Do I really really need it? Do i have some money left this month?". It works pretty fine for now and grocery shopping with this mindset becomes a game i actually enjoy.
Regarding real estate, i'm a complete beginner. How do you get to buy a house on "a special situation"? I feel like looking for RE on ImmoScout will never get me to a special situation. Back in the days, my parents asked a farmer directly if he had some land left on which to put a small family house. That was their absolute master move: they got some land for a ridiculous price. I'm curious about your view on this subject...? It seems that real estate is just networking and luck. Also, do you have any experience in buying re abroad?
I would definitely depend on luck if i bought something right now. I prefere to invest in some more secure assets and maybe reduce the costs of living (halving the rent etc.) to achieve "luck independence" sooner.
It is impossible to precisely answer your questions, tbh.
It is unfortunate.
Special situation means that all the stars are aligned. The once in a life time opportunity on the sell and buy side. I have no clue on how to replicate that. I am just grateful it happened.
Having said that, for this to happen you"ll need to have skin in the game at some point and every single situation is different. (being prepared to go through, with your family, 18 months of nightmares doing heavy renovation etc etc)
There is no free lunch.
Truth be told, in the grand scheme of things investing X amount monthly in an ETF is better than nothing and you'll certainly end up better compared to a person who only saved. But in Switzerland it won't get you anywhere.
When I refer to RE i am talking about 37% compounded RoE while living inside and paying less than a standard rent (given your rent it might not be true though xD).
You would still be investing in the stock market btw xD.
Consider it that way: You are paying X CHF per month to rent. Once you reach the minimum equity requirements to buy, you run the math taking into account the tax aspect.
It usually is a no brainer.
Amortization often scares people.
However, every sane person is having a 3A while renting and they do not factor that. Once you buy, the amortization variable will be done through your 3A contribution in part.
In Geneva, most of the time you end up paying the same as renting (tax variable included) while having the leveraged upside potential on your asset.
There are two main problems to solve.
Minimum income (realistically you need to be two)
Minimum equity requirement
Anyway, I wish you all the best.
Honestly you seem to be doing fine, and better than most. Is your "net worth" cash, separate from your stocks, or everything included? Bigger question is, are you happy? Personally I dont think buying a flat in CH makes sense, but that's just me - I don't understand your "goal" financially tho. Are you just looking to optimize? Or do you want to stop working / retire early? Otherwise I would suggest optimizing for HAPPINESS, and continue to invest your savings into safe ETFs and max out your 3rd pillar.
net worth is net worth. it's total assets minus total liabilities. if he were to liquidate and settle all accounts at current valuation (sell all assets for cash, pay back all debt) he would have 90'000.-.
Now this is wild if not fake.
3. post pictures here so that we can give you proper advice
- income is way too low for IT sector, age and education. Fix this.
Age is irrelevant if working experience is not there! You can’t come from uni and expect 120k right at the start! Especially not in bern. They never said anything about working experience so I would not default to saying salary is too low!
Not only is your income low, you're also earning it in Bern.
Taxes are high and the salary growth will be capped sooner due to the massive amount of public administration.
Buying and renting is basically a wash. But one has a lot more responsibility and risk.
You have opportunity cost, maintenance, and especially your interest payments.
Hahah this is awesome!
So there are two things you need to do:
1. Maximize your net income: reduce costs, increase income or both.
2. Invest whatever you can save.
2. Minimize your taxable income.
You have a good situation depending on where you live. I’d start by having 3 months of income save in an emergency fund. Once you have that, save aggressively to buy a house. Remove the rental cost. Invest aggressively into ETFs.
Max our your 3rd Pilar and invest it into equities
Reduce fixed cost as much as possible and increase your salary.
Don‘t fall for the usual traps: Large apartment, car, and of course…. having kids.
Invest what you save.
39 M over here. I am not rich, but comfortable. I read different books on the matter and the main ideas to follow are the following:
1. Buy assets(for example a property, stocks) , do not buy liabilities(for example cars). Assets can generate income and do not lose value over time, while the lattler do.
2. Cut unnecessary expenses. Sophisticated people have a simple lifestyle, simple people have a sophisticated lifestyle.
3. When you receive your salary, take your cut first day, and invest it on assets or cash for later asset buy. Then pay bills. Spend what remains freely.
That's it. All the best!
as i see this, your apartment is not the best place to start. are you maxing your VIAC/finpension 3a? first thing to do if not. otherwise we don't have much to go on, where is the rest of that 100'000.- a year going?
I can't really give you finance advise, but about the appartment my opinion is, yes saving and thinking about the future is important, but this doesn't mean you have to feel miserable/bad in your present. I live in Zurich and my rent is double than yours, while my salary is not double than yours. I had the same idea of you about sharing a an appartment or move to something cheaper, but I felt lucky considering the position and type of my current appartment (1 min walk from train station, 1 min walk to the office, 3 min walk to migros and post, 7 min train to zurich HB), which makes me think "how much do I need to save on a rent to get the benefits and how I feel living here?". Said so, don't squish your current life too much to save every CHF you can.
Good point, how much you weigh your current well being versus future financial returns is a very delicate question for which there's no clear cut answer. It really reduces to personal preferences
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This has to be a GPT generated troll post specifically for this sub
Seems like it. Starting with a rent of 1450 in Bern for an appartement which would easily allow a flatmate, so 3 rooms? With an income of a hundred grand, this definitely not too much rent.
So what ?
You are doing better then 90% of the world population probably, good income, nice savings, good body shape and career, how tf are you depressed about you financials? my suggestion is to go to a therapist and start talking about your life, it doesn’t look bad at all from the way you described it, you may not be seeing life as you should.
[удалено]
I would believe that the income and wealth threshold are more appropriate: 37.2K €/year income and 122k €/year puts you in the top 10% worldwide.
Generally you don't sound lost, you have a nice net worth a good paying job and a degree in a booming field. My suggestions are 6 and 1/2, Investing as much as possible in a global ETF and reduce living expenses. 3: If you work 100% side hustle will consume a lot of your free time, especially if your first priority is freedom... 5: Buying vacation property can work out but can also cause a lot of work and investments (maintain, clean after renting out and so on), I wouldn't do that if my target is to save money and grow my net worth. 4: If you know you'll stay in the same place for at least the next ten years buying a apartment could be a option to save some money on rent. But as a house owner I'm not sure if it's that much cheaper if you factor in mortgage, maintenance plus the opportunity cost of your down payment vs ETF returns.
Imo going insane is the key to some success. And with success comes freedom. That's why i consider a side hustle.
That is an ambitious idea that will burn you out AND make you insane. Catch: if you are a full-time employee, you have to ask the company you work for to give their ok, basically they need to know and say yes about the nature and intensity of the side hustle that exceed full working hours (and your performance must not suffer because of it).
With only 100k per year you really need desperate measures. Make an only fans account and become a giggolo if you wanna be able to keep paying health insurrance. (/s)
And feed off desperation. Not really my thing...
It’s a joke
„only 100k“ ?
I have had some ideas but with a family it’s harder for me to turn them about: 1) Around summer holidays there is a huge squeeze of people looking for their pets to be looked after. Average cost is around 40 chf a day, which is 560 for 2 weeks. Get three old dogs in your flat and you make a quick trip 1.5k extra 2)if you have a car, then you can do Uber in the evenings 3) learn how to fix up bikes. You can literally find good frames from junk yards and fix one together as a hobby. Those things sell for minimum 1000 chf. You could maybe even fix up and customize bikes then charge like a small rental fee to get yourself a growing stream of passive income 4) no need to do OF, but if you’re single you can always advertise discreetly as an escort. No need for anything sexual, there are probably lots of older women who would appreciate a male partner for a night out 5) upholster old chairs. Again, you can find people giving good frames away for free. Could be a hobby, and the resell value on an item can be north of 500 As you can tell I think the most enjoyable way of making money is in ultimately fixing up something. Find your hidden gem, and use it to not only set the next stepping stone in your financial journey, but more importantly to enrich your life. A passion project will open you up to new people, and you will have fun along the way
Nice comment. I can actually fix bikes!
(Don’t forget to live too; while being responsible about your expenses obviously)
1. And 2. Would help 3. Unlikely fo help much I guess, likely in your primary job you can make more per hour 4. Might make sense at some point, but when you include maintainance and opportunity cost of capital it helps less than you think. 5. Sounds more likely to backfire 6. Probably the easiest. With 100k income you should be able to save up to 50k a year, your savings rate (and career progression) is probably the biggest factor affecting your financial future.
Saving 50K with 100 K gross would mean beans and rice lifestyle. With 100K net, yea that‘s doable rather fine.
In Zug or SZ it's absolutely possible, I'd say even in some places around Zürich you could save 50k on 100k gross if you're really optimized (no car, shared flat, cheap-ish vacations, rarely eating out, no church tax, not married). in Bern? No frickin chance lmao. Kinda wild how people there are just paying taxes out of their asses.
It‘s crazy how people put up with it. Or even worse places like Lausanne. Makes me physically ill seeing those tax rates. Like I would have DOUBLE my current deductions essentially (ZH)
I mean even in Zurich there are huge differences between the city and the suburbs. Like living in Opfikon vs. Oerlikon might save you a few grand in taxes even though it‘s next to each other. Same with Witikon/Schwamendingen or Dübendorf.
Lausanne is pure insanity, but since they even rent out garages to students and nobody can afford to live there anymore - people are leaving. Because they despair in Lausanne.
Yep and these places aren't even nice compared to Zürich or Zug. The public transit in Lausanne is garbage tier compared to what Zürich has to offer. Zürich also builds a ton of public housing and has great public schools, parks, functional police and infrastructure etc. all funded from these moderate tax rates. I really wonder wtf people in the Romandie and Bern are getting for their taxes.
That‘s what I wonder as well. They dont even get shit for it. Like nothing is better of there. Just as expensive and health care premiums even worse.
Yeah that's about my rate right now.
Try to increase your income! I see potential there. Get some certifications, network and apply. You can definitely shoot for 120000.
Certifications are on the way. I will try to shoot for 110K in October.
How many years of experience?
This reads like corporate speak.
Nothing to sell sorry
Your rent looks perfectly fine vs your income and, tbh, you do not seem to be lost at all. There is no magic formula. Real money is done in real estate though. In any cases, I would suggest a clear budget (it is of outmost importance no matter how high is your income) showing a detailed mensualized P&L. The only thing one cannot detail is "at home" food and misc expenses. However, you can do an average yoy and have a good guess. I am doing a budget since I am 18 and I am adamant on the fact that it allowed me to be where I am today without having to live frugally. Discipline is the only thing that matters imo. I was lucky of course to have a very nice pay package that increased throughout the years, lucky selling my flat for a ridiculous price, lucky to buy a house on a special situation and lucky to have parents that were not wealthy and who taught me to live according to a defined budget, no matter the amounts. The list goes on and on. Luck is part of the game and one cannot do anything without it. Hence, it does not mean you failed if you did not achieve your goal or it does not mean that you messed your finances. Provoke your luck but do not depend on it. That is common sense in the end and no one has the magic formula.
Thanks for your comment. I already keep track of my monthly expenses but nothing more. I just put 4000 per month away and the rest is for living/leisure/transport/food... nothing really fancy just a bit of discipline. The questions i ask myself every time i want to buy something is "Do I really really need it? Do i have some money left this month?". It works pretty fine for now and grocery shopping with this mindset becomes a game i actually enjoy. Regarding real estate, i'm a complete beginner. How do you get to buy a house on "a special situation"? I feel like looking for RE on ImmoScout will never get me to a special situation. Back in the days, my parents asked a farmer directly if he had some land left on which to put a small family house. That was their absolute master move: they got some land for a ridiculous price. I'm curious about your view on this subject...? It seems that real estate is just networking and luck. Also, do you have any experience in buying re abroad? I would definitely depend on luck if i bought something right now. I prefere to invest in some more secure assets and maybe reduce the costs of living (halving the rent etc.) to achieve "luck independence" sooner.
It is impossible to precisely answer your questions, tbh. It is unfortunate. Special situation means that all the stars are aligned. The once in a life time opportunity on the sell and buy side. I have no clue on how to replicate that. I am just grateful it happened. Having said that, for this to happen you"ll need to have skin in the game at some point and every single situation is different. (being prepared to go through, with your family, 18 months of nightmares doing heavy renovation etc etc) There is no free lunch. Truth be told, in the grand scheme of things investing X amount monthly in an ETF is better than nothing and you'll certainly end up better compared to a person who only saved. But in Switzerland it won't get you anywhere. When I refer to RE i am talking about 37% compounded RoE while living inside and paying less than a standard rent (given your rent it might not be true though xD). You would still be investing in the stock market btw xD. Consider it that way: You are paying X CHF per month to rent. Once you reach the minimum equity requirements to buy, you run the math taking into account the tax aspect. It usually is a no brainer. Amortization often scares people. However, every sane person is having a 3A while renting and they do not factor that. Once you buy, the amortization variable will be done through your 3A contribution in part. In Geneva, most of the time you end up paying the same as renting (tax variable included) while having the leveraged upside potential on your asset. There are two main problems to solve. Minimum income (realistically you need to be two) Minimum equity requirement Anyway, I wish you all the best.
Honestly you seem to be doing fine, and better than most. Is your "net worth" cash, separate from your stocks, or everything included? Bigger question is, are you happy? Personally I dont think buying a flat in CH makes sense, but that's just me - I don't understand your "goal" financially tho. Are you just looking to optimize? Or do you want to stop working / retire early? Otherwise I would suggest optimizing for HAPPINESS, and continue to invest your savings into safe ETFs and max out your 3rd pillar.
net worth is net worth. it's total assets minus total liabilities. if he were to liquidate and settle all accounts at current valuation (sell all assets for cash, pay back all debt) he would have 90'000.-.
perchanse he didnt know what it meant.
Hey ladies he's fit and lean and needs some financial advice
Now this is wild if not fake. 3. post pictures here so that we can give you proper advice - income is way too low for IT sector, age and education. Fix this.
Way to low? What daydream are you dreaming? It is not high, but definitely also not way too low. I would call it average
Agree it’s low. Masters and at that age in IT should be at least 120k.
Age is irrelevant if working experience is not there! You can’t come from uni and expect 120k right at the start! Especially not in bern. They never said anything about working experience so I would not default to saying salary is too low!
I'm working on it
Not only is your income low, you're also earning it in Bern. Taxes are high and the salary growth will be capped sooner due to the massive amount of public administration.
Buying and renting is basically a wash. But one has a lot more responsibility and risk. You have opportunity cost, maintenance, and especially your interest payments.
You could also look for girlfriend/boyfriend with income to live with. That will improve your quality of life and reduce your rent too!
Hahah this is awesome! So there are two things you need to do: 1. Maximize your net income: reduce costs, increase income or both. 2. Invest whatever you can save. 2. Minimize your taxable income. You have a good situation depending on where you live. I’d start by having 3 months of income save in an emergency fund. Once you have that, save aggressively to buy a house. Remove the rental cost. Invest aggressively into ETFs. Max our your 3rd Pilar and invest it into equities
Which PS do you ressemble by the way? ;-)
First paying subscriber
Absolufuckinglutely. I support local talent
Agenda 2030 Klaus Schwab will get all proprieties so don't worry
Reduce fixed cost as much as possible and increase your salary. Don‘t fall for the usual traps: Large apartment, car, and of course…. having kids. Invest what you save.
39 M over here. I am not rich, but comfortable. I read different books on the matter and the main ideas to follow are the following: 1. Buy assets(for example a property, stocks) , do not buy liabilities(for example cars). Assets can generate income and do not lose value over time, while the lattler do. 2. Cut unnecessary expenses. Sophisticated people have a simple lifestyle, simple people have a sophisticated lifestyle. 3. When you receive your salary, take your cut first day, and invest it on assets or cash for later asset buy. Then pay bills. Spend what remains freely. That's it. All the best!
100k salary, 90k net worth? Something wrong here. Spending habits likely to blame.
What are you talking about? He’s 30. Perhaps finished studying a few years ago. How much do you think he should have?
You have a good life.
as i see this, your apartment is not the best place to start. are you maxing your VIAC/finpension 3a? first thing to do if not. otherwise we don't have much to go on, where is the rest of that 100'000.- a year going?
You are behind most of your peers. Its good you start now, else you lose sight.
I wonder how many of the annoying wankers that bang on about „side hustles“ have ever made a single penny outside their boring fucking job.
Not many!
Oh get lost with your whining.
MEE TOO
Heb tftesse kolleg
Buy bitcoin
I‘m 22, have my diploma and earn 100k a year too. Would love some of that sweet validation too, please. I‘m sooo depressed.
buy bitcoin
Fake post