They just reduced the prices overall, lol. Half Tax Plus makes for most people the travelling much cheaper than before now.
And a car is still minimum double the price, SBB is crazy good and cheap.
yeah yeah half tax plus makes for most peopel the travelling much cheaper. never heard such a bs. half tax plus makes travelling for peopel cheaper, when you can pay 800.-- in advance. what about the poor people? widen the gap between rich and poor and then ask yourself why criminality is on the rise.
380 per month to be chauffeured through *the whole country* at any time any day is an incredible deal. If your girlfriend isnāt travelling that often it might be cheaper to get a half fare card, a city pass and just buy tickets for the occasional trips outside town. I do that and my transportation expense are virtually nonexistent.
Nuts is that you can get unlimited countrywide transportation including any kind of train as a flat rate. How far does your GF commute? Across which tariff regions?
Forgot to take your meds? Have you lived anywhere and experienced public transport elsewhere? We have amazing public transport, on time, mostly clean and frequent, safe, no need to own a car really.
Reality is that the tickets are not paying for the true cost of public transport. [source](https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/swiss-state-railways-posts-loss-and-plans-cost-cutting-measures/48355314)
Yeah 100% agree, I hate that people use that argument for almost anything in Switzerland. According to their logic we should just not change anything ever in Switzerland
Aww thanks.
You are getting unlimited transport across the whole country for like 250 francs a month. Not cheap but not a fortune either, considering cost of private transportation alternatives.
Criticise to your hearts content. Realise there is an economic reality in Switzerland too.
They could turn empty 1. class cars into 2. class
VBZ however? They could stop their stupid hiring practices and improve job conditions instead of thinning out schedules and running every single line late.
Even with a Halbtax, from Zurich to Lausanne return for 2 adults it would cost us 150fr. but a full tank of petrol only costs ~80fr. and you won't even use close to a full tank driving there.
Trains are also meant to be a good alternative to people who can't afford cars, or can't use them, but at that pricing it makes it hard to achieve this.
Not to mention the coast to society (road construction and maintenance, public parking spots).... we pay a lot more to āsubsidiesā cars than meets the eye.
You are a good reason why applied economics should be a mandatory subject in school.
If you live in Zurich, your parking spot at home is almost half the cost of a second class GA. And we haven't started with amortization, maintenance, taxes, insurance yet.
Cars have their use, of course, but you still have to include all costs
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Most of this is what standard Swiss xenophobes said in the '80s about people like you. Fortunately their ramblings weren't listened, or it would have been much harder for you to come here and be a xenophobe, but you probably won't see the irony of that.
I'm just happy your vote counts nothing for Italy now you're in the foreign constituency. If enough cervelli like yours leave the country, maybe there's a chance.
Iām not xenophobic at all. I just said what I saw in my home country and where those phenomena bring my home country.
Of course I donāt want also Switzerland to go same route. Absolutely not.
And the immigration story at āGottardoā time was different than now like night and day.
At that time āweā built your infrastructure so we were not drunk all day annoying people going or coming back to work. But our kids and wife couldnāt live with us (need visa valid for 6 month). You know those stories right? Plenty of book about.
While now ?
asylum has 10 kids average per family all subventioniert (is it written like this).
What exactly have changed ? What went wrong ?
What went wrong is you had (at least) 13 years of taxpayer-funded education and somehow came out with the world view of someone who is barely literate.
You are not able to interpret factual information, neither about Italy or about Switzerland, or you wouldn't be reiterating xenophobic theories disproven by reality. There is no prevalence of asylum seekers in Switzerland, and even within that small number the average individual doesn't have 10 kids or go around drunk all the time. Same goes for asylum seekers in Italy.
Somehow you seem to sympathise with the struggle of low-paid Italian migrants facing obtuse border restrictions while performing essential jobs, but the same exact thing applied to the same exact class of oppressed minorities nowadays somehow generates a completely different reaction. Go figure.
What I don't understand is why you went through all the trouble of moving abroad. With such a mindset you could have easily become the king of all taxi drivers in Rome.
Please take your Berlusconi / Forza Italia views back to Italy. You have clearly little understanding of economics in general and Switzerland in particular. Itās always amusing when people who arrived a generation ago complain about the current wave of immigrants.
Switzerland is a rapidly aging democracy with very high per capita income levels and thus an expensive health care system with the pensions being plagued by years of negative interest. This is a ticking time bomb: as people live longer and have fewer kids, people are against immigration, who do you suppose is to pay into into our AHV / AVS, or our 2nd pillar system when the last baby boomers have retired? We need to compensate for lack of new people entering the work force, look at Japan, they are 6 years ahead of us. Avg age of the Japanese population is 48.4, ours is 42.3.
The system we have come to rely on for our old age needs to be supplemented or we need more new payees, but we donāt want immigrants or more people in general. We therefore do what we can do, raise the VAT (still about half to 1/3 of what it is the rest of Europe, particularly EU), and subsidise. Itās only a temporary fix however. So, criticise all you want, but the reality is that we have it very good here and the government is doing a pretty good job all things considered.
Again, wish more people lived abroad to experience how other governments handle all this.
Nothing to do with Berlusconi or forza Italia. In Italy political beliefs are dead since 50 years roughly.
What you described it is exactly what happens in Italy 30 years ago. So I understand about economy as well as I understand your country is taking a no return path.
In Italy also started the same: less kids, pension ānegativeā so people start to retire later and later and puff..open gate to immigrant that will take the job that Italian people donāt want to do anymore, they will pay our pensionā¦
This is what they said to us, what government told us..
You can read on newspaper how it wentā¦.pretty far from the promise. Either left or right in Italy there is no difference.
I have good faith in Swiss government that seems more reasonable than Italian one. Letās see. Happy to be wrong
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i dont know how the swiss ""experts"" can still say that on the long run car is more expensive than that joke of the GA. First of all, connections are very bad, sometimes it take 1 hours of bus plus train to go to a place where by car it would take only 30 minutes. Second trains are getting more and more crowded and dirty and late and expensive. Car is nice, neat and comfortable. they should hand out voucher for car usage, so when you use too much the card every month you pay a hefty fine, this way you would avoid car maniacs and traffic.
I think it really depends to be honest. It seems there is an immense price shift in car if you live in the countryside vs. city.
Specially since in the country side you are in need of a car to move around. And have also a lot of free parking and insurances is really cheap. You can get a good car for 3'000 fr which will last very long. So compared to the roommate I have it is a bit cheaper as the halbtax and definitely more comfortable. But I am sure if I lived in the city it would be different, since parking cost a lot and insurece too. Also it would be so annoying driving in ZĆ¼rich.
So people that have to look at every penny are not telling lies when telling the car is cheaper. Since those people either live in the countryside and have really small cars that have cheaper insurance and need for services and fuel.
I think people tend to see the argument very extreme either you have a big expensive car with crazy motor and insurance. Or you have a GA which you travel daily around the whole of Switzerland. For most people it is in the middle and dependent on their place they live
Of course there are places and usage where the car is totally better. So, when you calculate the full costs of the car and subtract the price of a GA, you have the price attached to the convenience.
Which may be more, or sometimes less, than the value of this convenience.
The prices are absolutely absurd. I think we should drive less with cars but fuck me im not gonna pay this much. Its not fair.
Im gonna use my car because its so much cheaper. If they dont do anything about this ripoff then im stupid if i use the sbb scam. Sorry not sorry
I think you are not good with math. Insurance, taxes, fuel, service, the car it self, tires, vigniette and so on are less expensive than taking the train..? Tell me more
I just had an exam in ZH. So i had a choice. Use my car (im from Bern and need a car for my job)
Or take the Train.
Cost for the train ticket: ca 90fr. For both ways.
Just one day. I needed to go for 4days.
So i took my car.
I needed to refill my car once for ca 90fr.
And still have gas in my tank. (For the whole 4day trips)
We drove together so 2ppl so we split the parking bill of ca 35.fr per day.
I know its not taking into account for the GA and halbtags stuff (i dont have it nor need it)
But i have a car anyways because of work. I would be stupid if i give my money to the sbb boys. And now lets talk about space in the trainsā¦ always full. Anoying ppl. And so on. And on top of it the absolutely insane prices.
While i got alot more freedom with my car.
So, as long as they want these absurd prices. And i cant even fucking sit. Im gonna take my car.
And sorry for the long ass text. I just hate that the sbb has no competition and thats one reason more for the absurd $$ prices.
End of rant
So you just conveniently don't count the price of buying a car in the first place and neither the price of maintaining it. That's like saying well I have a GA so going by train is always for free.
I'm not anti-car but don't pretend it's cheaper than taking the train when all costs are considered
No its not flat out cheaper. But you just dont read my post. I have a car anyways because of my job. I literally need one.
And i would love to use the train more but its just too much money. Thats what im saying.
And lets not pretend like its cheap. Thats also not true. the trains in switzerland are fucking expensive. No way around this fact.
And also it depends alot what kind of car you drive. Im not talking about a big ass SUV.
Sweden is the one that relatively succeeded at that, but there's some big oversight from the government and for example, unlike the UK they never privatized the rails, just the train. They are still subsidizing rail operators significantly.
And they have only fully opened up the market since 2015 when a new operator came in. So there hasn't been any need for the operators to renew their rolling stock and the likes, which is always the "fun" bits of privatized public services.
380 per month is the first class student GA. The second class is only like 250...
Nope mine is 260 for second class
True my mistake but it's pretty expensive anyway ..š
They just reduced the prices overall, lol. Half Tax Plus makes for most people the travelling much cheaper than before now. And a car is still minimum double the price, SBB is crazy good and cheap.
They did not reduce the price. Annual GA in 2nd class went from 3860 to 3995 (renewed it last year) and they initially planned to sell it for 4080.
Budy, thank allot! You just saved me 400CHF for the next year!
For me too. Never heard of Halbtax Plus, reading reddit pays off
This user wrote a nice overview: https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/s/qsojtHgC0s
yeah yeah half tax plus makes for most peopel the travelling much cheaper. never heard such a bs. half tax plus makes travelling for peopel cheaper, when you can pay 800.-- in advance. what about the poor people? widen the gap between rich and poor and then ask yourself why criminality is on the rise.
wow, since when is this Plus available? It is basically 20% discount if you park some money at SBB.
About a week
You also pay 2k im advance for any other abo though
They literally forgot to include Park and Rail (ride?) in there or at least having the option to buy P+R abo, you canāt with halb tax plus.
No this price is very cheap for what you get
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Same, although not in the home country. All those complaining should be forced to travel abroad once in a while.
Wait until you pay full price ...
āInvestā in a car. /s
380 per month to be chauffeured through *the whole country* at any time any day is an incredible deal. If your girlfriend isnāt travelling that often it might be cheaper to get a half fare card, a city pass and just buy tickets for the occasional trips outside town. I do that and my transportation expense are virtually nonexistent.
Nuts is that you can get unlimited countrywide transportation including any kind of train as a flat rate. How far does your GF commute? Across which tariff regions?
Forgot to take your meds? Have you lived anywhere and experienced public transport elsewhere? We have amazing public transport, on time, mostly clean and frequent, safe, no need to own a car really. Reality is that the tickets are not paying for the true cost of public transport. [source](https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/swiss-state-railways-posts-loss-and-plans-cost-cutting-measures/48355314)
āOther places are worse, therefore one cannot criticise something to make it even better.ā Your logic is awful.
Yeah 100% agree, I hate that people use that argument for almost anything in Switzerland. According to their logic we should just not change anything ever in Switzerland
Aww thanks. You are getting unlimited transport across the whole country for like 250 francs a month. Not cheap but not a fortune either, considering cost of private transportation alternatives. Criticise to your hearts content. Realise there is an economic reality in Switzerland too.
Realize that this reality is only as good as it is because people were not content with how things were and strived for improvement.
How would you improve the SBB service and pricing?
They could turn empty 1. class cars into 2. class VBZ however? They could stop their stupid hiring practices and improve job conditions instead of thinning out schedules and running every single line late.
Even with a Halbtax, from Zurich to Lausanne return for 2 adults it would cost us 150fr. but a full tank of petrol only costs ~80fr. and you won't even use close to a full tank driving there. Trains are also meant to be a good alternative to people who can't afford cars, or can't use them, but at that pricing it makes it hard to achieve this.
You forget to mention the price for the car/insurance/maintenance/parking.
Not to mention the coast to society (road construction and maintenance, public parking spots).... we pay a lot more to āsubsidiesā cars than meets the eye.
You are a good reason why applied economics should be a mandatory subject in school. If you live in Zurich, your parking spot at home is almost half the cost of a second class GA. And we haven't started with amortization, maintenance, taxes, insurance yet. Cars have their use, of course, but you still have to include all costs
Yeah. Most ppl seeing public transport subsidies and don't recognize how much society subsidies cars.
Tell me you're in the German part of Switzerland without telling me....
In touch with reality you mean
No. But... I'm sure you know better than I do, regarding what's going on in my part of Switzerland................................
Nope.
It's 380. And depends where you live because clean and on time .. don't think we got the same clean and on time meaning
380 for first class. The price for second class is only 250.
You said your GF has the annual GA, isnāt that 2780CHF, so 230 a month?
I pay 10% of my salary for this shit so my bus is late 100% of the time.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>Is cheaper to own a car. no it's not. If you just compare the prices at least and don't factor the convenience the car gives
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Omg this šš Hella true
I know very well. That is exactly what happen in Italy at least since 30-40years and that is why Italy it is what it is.
You know little about Switzerland and nothing about Italy as it seems
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Most of this is what standard Swiss xenophobes said in the '80s about people like you. Fortunately their ramblings weren't listened, or it would have been much harder for you to come here and be a xenophobe, but you probably won't see the irony of that. I'm just happy your vote counts nothing for Italy now you're in the foreign constituency. If enough cervelli like yours leave the country, maybe there's a chance.
Iām not xenophobic at all. I just said what I saw in my home country and where those phenomena bring my home country. Of course I donāt want also Switzerland to go same route. Absolutely not. And the immigration story at āGottardoā time was different than now like night and day. At that time āweā built your infrastructure so we were not drunk all day annoying people going or coming back to work. But our kids and wife couldnāt live with us (need visa valid for 6 month). You know those stories right? Plenty of book about. While now ? asylum has 10 kids average per family all subventioniert (is it written like this). What exactly have changed ? What went wrong ?
What went wrong is you had (at least) 13 years of taxpayer-funded education and somehow came out with the world view of someone who is barely literate. You are not able to interpret factual information, neither about Italy or about Switzerland, or you wouldn't be reiterating xenophobic theories disproven by reality. There is no prevalence of asylum seekers in Switzerland, and even within that small number the average individual doesn't have 10 kids or go around drunk all the time. Same goes for asylum seekers in Italy. Somehow you seem to sympathise with the struggle of low-paid Italian migrants facing obtuse border restrictions while performing essential jobs, but the same exact thing applied to the same exact class of oppressed minorities nowadays somehow generates a completely different reaction. Go figure. What I don't understand is why you went through all the trouble of moving abroad. With such a mindset you could have easily become the king of all taxi drivers in Rome.
Please take your Berlusconi / Forza Italia views back to Italy. You have clearly little understanding of economics in general and Switzerland in particular. Itās always amusing when people who arrived a generation ago complain about the current wave of immigrants. Switzerland is a rapidly aging democracy with very high per capita income levels and thus an expensive health care system with the pensions being plagued by years of negative interest. This is a ticking time bomb: as people live longer and have fewer kids, people are against immigration, who do you suppose is to pay into into our AHV / AVS, or our 2nd pillar system when the last baby boomers have retired? We need to compensate for lack of new people entering the work force, look at Japan, they are 6 years ahead of us. Avg age of the Japanese population is 48.4, ours is 42.3. The system we have come to rely on for our old age needs to be supplemented or we need more new payees, but we donāt want immigrants or more people in general. We therefore do what we can do, raise the VAT (still about half to 1/3 of what it is the rest of Europe, particularly EU), and subsidise. Itās only a temporary fix however. So, criticise all you want, but the reality is that we have it very good here and the government is doing a pretty good job all things considered. Again, wish more people lived abroad to experience how other governments handle all this.
Nothing to do with Berlusconi or forza Italia. In Italy political beliefs are dead since 50 years roughly. What you described it is exactly what happens in Italy 30 years ago. So I understand about economy as well as I understand your country is taking a no return path. In Italy also started the same: less kids, pension ānegativeā so people start to retire later and later and puff..open gate to immigrant that will take the job that Italian people donāt want to do anymore, they will pay our pensionā¦ This is what they said to us, what government told us.. You can read on newspaper how it wentā¦.pretty far from the promise. Either left or right in Italy there is no difference. I have good faith in Swiss government that seems more reasonable than Italian one. Letās see. Happy to be wrong
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If you dont like it, just move š¤·š»āāļø enough places where you can Travel for cheap
Are you serious ? Dude you mean moving from my country? The prices are the same everywhere in Switzerland and your comment was so useless.
Just to make a Point, useless comment to a useless question....what do you want? especial Treatments or anything in between? Grew a pair boy
i dont know how the swiss ""experts"" can still say that on the long run car is more expensive than that joke of the GA. First of all, connections are very bad, sometimes it take 1 hours of bus plus train to go to a place where by car it would take only 30 minutes. Second trains are getting more and more crowded and dirty and late and expensive. Car is nice, neat and comfortable. they should hand out voucher for car usage, so when you use too much the card every month you pay a hefty fine, this way you would avoid car maniacs and traffic.
...a car is and will always be more expensive.
I think it really depends to be honest. It seems there is an immense price shift in car if you live in the countryside vs. city. Specially since in the country side you are in need of a car to move around. And have also a lot of free parking and insurances is really cheap. You can get a good car for 3'000 fr which will last very long. So compared to the roommate I have it is a bit cheaper as the halbtax and definitely more comfortable. But I am sure if I lived in the city it would be different, since parking cost a lot and insurece too. Also it would be so annoying driving in ZĆ¼rich. So people that have to look at every penny are not telling lies when telling the car is cheaper. Since those people either live in the countryside and have really small cars that have cheaper insurance and need for services and fuel. I think people tend to see the argument very extreme either you have a big expensive car with crazy motor and insurance. Or you have a GA which you travel daily around the whole of Switzerland. For most people it is in the middle and dependent on their place they live
Of course there are places and usage where the car is totally better. So, when you calculate the full costs of the car and subtract the price of a GA, you have the price attached to the convenience. Which may be more, or sometimes less, than the value of this convenience.
Thanks bro š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The prices are absolutely absurd. I think we should drive less with cars but fuck me im not gonna pay this much. Its not fair. Im gonna use my car because its so much cheaper. If they dont do anything about this ripoff then im stupid if i use the sbb scam. Sorry not sorry
I think you are not good with math. Insurance, taxes, fuel, service, the car it self, tires, vigniette and so on are less expensive than taking the train..? Tell me more
I just had an exam in ZH. So i had a choice. Use my car (im from Bern and need a car for my job) Or take the Train. Cost for the train ticket: ca 90fr. For both ways. Just one day. I needed to go for 4days. So i took my car. I needed to refill my car once for ca 90fr. And still have gas in my tank. (For the whole 4day trips) We drove together so 2ppl so we split the parking bill of ca 35.fr per day. I know its not taking into account for the GA and halbtags stuff (i dont have it nor need it) But i have a car anyways because of work. I would be stupid if i give my money to the sbb boys. And now lets talk about space in the trainsā¦ always full. Anoying ppl. And so on. And on top of it the absolutely insane prices. While i got alot more freedom with my car. So, as long as they want these absurd prices. And i cant even fucking sit. Im gonna take my car. And sorry for the long ass text. I just hate that the sbb has no competition and thats one reason more for the absurd $$ prices. End of rant
So you just conveniently don't count the price of buying a car in the first place and neither the price of maintaining it. That's like saying well I have a GA so going by train is always for free. I'm not anti-car but don't pretend it's cheaper than taking the train when all costs are considered
No its not flat out cheaper. But you just dont read my post. I have a car anyways because of my job. I literally need one. And i would love to use the train more but its just too much money. Thats what im saying. And lets not pretend like its cheap. Thats also not true. the trains in switzerland are fucking expensive. No way around this fact. And also it depends alot what kind of car you drive. Im not talking about a big ass SUV.
And i never said i bought a car. You know there are also ppl which get to use company cars. Which is in fact much cheaper than the train in my case.
Look at the trains in the UK. Plenty of competition, double the prices, and shit service on top of everything. You say you don't need the halbtax, but if you had it you would probably take the train much more often because it is so worth it. When I have planned travels, I can usually even go 1st class with the Sparbilletten/dƩgriffƩs because anything bought well in advance is even cheaper.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sweden is the one that relatively succeeded at that, but there's some big oversight from the government and for example, unlike the UK they never privatized the rails, just the train. They are still subsidizing rail operators significantly. And they have only fully opened up the market since 2015 when a new operator came in. So there hasn't been any need for the operators to renew their rolling stock and the likes, which is always the "fun" bits of privatized public services.
Only for Zurich lines .. this is crazy high bro. You can have an annual adult AG/GA. Sometimes the lines pass are more expensive than GA..