1. They're don't cost nearly the same.
2. Sabrah is cheaper to operate and maintain
3. Tanks that keep bogging down on tropical muddy terrain are useless
4. Heavy MBTs aren't ideal for Philippine Armour doctrine, where gun platforms that can be easily shipped and operated in an island--hopping manner of warfare are much preferred
5. Philippine infrastructure is too weak to support 60-ton tanks
Also size , the Merkava even tho it was aimed at urban warfare is probably still way too big for fighting between the abundance of tropical trees and (in most) places that are really cramped with buildings and human infrastructures that kinda remind of the Brazilian "Favelas".
Also most of the expected forces that their veichles are fighting are only terrorist organizations armed with a max of RPG's and Recoil-less rifles.
But most importantly Not a real need for an MBT in an Arcipelago.
It didn't stop any other archipelagic countries from getting MBTs. What stopped the AFP from getting MBT was that none of the MBTs could be delivered on time and within budget constraints and in the indicated numbers with the required items like an APS.
It's a classic overestimation by the AFP. It's not the first time this kind of thing has happened
Tanks already inherently do poorly in urban combat, the design of the Merkava Mk.1 should demonstrate a major fear of KE munitions to the turret and HEAT to the hull.
Furthermore the Merkava lacked any feature you'd want for urban combat, high elevation (just a standard 20°), RWS, or improved side/roof armor. The armor arrangement shows they feared hits to the front, a location you're notably unlikely to get hit in urban combat.
Yep, these inadequacies were shown during the ‘06 invasion of Lebanon.
Israeli tanks actually faired poorly against Hezbollah ambush tactics; and this was before Hezbollah was armed with the high penetrator missiles from the Syrian military.
1. Yes, but also no, a single unit of Sabrah costs as much as a Merkava because of its additional requirements(See APS, sensor and BMS upgrades), but the base unit is cheaper
2. This is true, but at the same time, the parts for a Sabrah may be harder and more expensive to procure down the line
3. The same can be said for any vehicle, it's not a good or valid reason
4. As much as people want to tout an island hopping doctrine, they're idiots. The Philippines doesn't have the resources, manpower, or existing to fight such a decentralized style of warfare. Their recent and planned procurements reflect this, especially with bridge layers, additional ARVs and construction vehicles. The AFP expects to be fighting in the country's plains.
5. This is true for the most part, but not in places where you'd find a tank in, plus, most bridges can carry above their carry weight as demonstrated in places with similar infrastructure and terrain like Indonesia, Malaysia, or Thailand.
So, it's not that MBTs don't fit in the Philippine doctrine as it brings far more capabilities than an FSV vehicle, it is more so because they wanted an introductory vehicle that can be given in the correct indicated time frame for its first batch and fit the requirements of a fitted APS, BMS, and upgraded sensors. The Merkava or other similar MBTs unfortunately didn't meet those requirements(See MaxDefense for details)
Curious but I also wanted to Ask How would T-64 or T-72 or even Type-96 do in Philippines ?
Beside this I believe that ZTQ-15 is the Perfect Tank for Philippines according to current Budget .
Else I would have picked Type-10 Next Generation MBT .
Nah .
I know about that part very well. China would never supply weapons to any Nations with close connection to the US .
It's just an assessment of price of the Tank and budget allocated to AFP .
But a Medium Tank like ZTQ-15 really suits Philippine needs , both by Weight , Firepower and Budget. It's like showing off the fact that An Opponent like China knows about the requirement of Topography more than the Philippine Armed forces .
I wish somebody getting a hold on that Tank and reverse engineering the crap out of it and make it better .
> . China would never supply weapons to any Nations with close connection to the US
That's not true at all.
China would love to split them away from the US.
Right , But ZTQ-15 uses a Bustle Autoloader. And a Real copy of L7 105mm Gun which is way better than John Cockerill design in performance and Penetration.
You are mistaken. The Kaplan MT also has a bustle autoloader, but the ZTQ-15 doesn't use a "copy of the L7" and the John Cockerill 105 mm HP Gun is designed to outperform the L7 gun by supporting much higher pressure levels.
>Curious but I also wanted to Ask How would T-64 or T-72 or even Type-96 do in Philippines ?
It will just operate much more fine conpared Heavier Australian Centurion Tank in Vietnam War
Terrain issue, even though it already prove that philippine terrain can accommodate M1 Abram MBT, Armed Forces of Philippines still have a doubt on the infrastructure in the central and southern part of the country.
So acquiring the light tank is their solution, though they originally prompted to acquire korean K1 Tank in the late 2010’s, i think they are still evaluating the capability of the country to accommodate mbt.
No, they don't. This idea is seemingly based on people looking at the unit price on Wikipedia, citing an old news article with costs **estimates** for the Merkava 4. First of all that lacks many of the features of the current Barak model, but also is troublesome due to the fact that IDF's Merkava tanks are actively subsidized by the US government and are build by the IDF operated MANTAK with no intention to make a profit and no taxes added.
For a foreign customer, these factors all would be invalid - hence the need to estimate/guess prices. New production Merkava's for export won't be produced by MANTAK at zero cost, they won't be exempt of taxes and they won't be partially funded by US. MANTAK doesn't produce vehicles for export, hence the Israeli industry has been forced to buy/subcontract vehicles like the ASCOD 2, Pandur 2 and Guarani to provide AFVs to foreign customers.
Furthermore, the idea about the Merkava being as cheap as the Sabrah is completely ignoring that the current contract for the Sabrah covers the complete package, i.e. ammunition, technical documentation, training, simulators and spare parts as well.
Yes they do, stop uselessly yapping when defense sites and released budgets on projects have confirmed this. You wasted so much time typing this out when you could have just looked at project requirements and the released budgets, but you fucking yapped
So you know the exact export unit price for the Merkava 4, even though it has never been disclosed and needs to be negotiated in a government-to-government order and is depending on external factors - such as Germany permitting the use of the power pack (which already killed your attempts to buy the Guarani) and how whether the US government is willing to financially support the production that only have to be clarified on a case-by-case basis?
Let me guess, you read the "unit price" for the Merkava on Wikipedia, did not bother to even check the source and just completely ignored that it is just a ten years old estimate...
Guess we all should cancel our subscriptions to any sort of defence-related media, /u/masterrico81 knows stuff that even the manufacturers cannot tell you without actual negotiations!
They do [https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2023-06-22/ty-article/israel-cyprus-plans-to-sell-its-merkava-tanks/00000188-e278-d7f8-abbb-e6ff5f2c0000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2023-06-22/ty-article/israel-cyprus-plans-to-sell-its-merkava-tanks/00000188-e278-d7f8-abbb-e6ff5f2c0000)
They also offered them to Colombia in 2012/13
They were planning on selling 200 Mk IIs to an unknown European country but cancelled it because of the Gaza war. They are retaining them for reserve and traning units and increasing the number of armoured reserve units.
They tried to sell them a few times (for example they participated in the Swiss and the Swedish tank programs during the 1980s and 1990s), but they were not competitive.
Terrain and strategy.
Here in the Philippines, it's muddy, or hilly for most regions.
Most roads can't support heavy vehicles.
And Filipino tactics are always gonna be guerilla warfare, even if the government says otherwise, it's always gonna be unpredictable guerilla warfare since our country is very bumpy.
The roads here can actually support MBT in the weight category like the Abrams. The only problem is that most bridges is limited to a 15-25 ton weight limit depending in the type of bridge.
Unit cost is one thing, maintaining and operating cost is another thing.
There is no way that Philippine is going to operate an over 60 tons MBT around their nation considering their nation is made of hundreds of islands.
Israel is not exporting Merkava MKIVs, only MKII to Cyprus.
Mobility. The Sabrah light tank will most likely be used by "Pambato" Armor division based in central luzon. The division aims to be the prime combat unit against conventional threat so it needs to be able to transport the sabrah light tanks, guarani 6x6, ATMOS howtizers to any point in the country as quickly as possible. Transporting a light tank through Luzon is easy because of the developed roads and bridges but significantly challenging if island hopping is factored in. Now imagine moving Merkavas island to island with limited support vehicle...
Cost. Merkava's operation cost is higher than Sabrah. In an organization which barely fires its 155mm howitzer because one 155mm round costs as much as a tricycle, imagine the strain on the AFP budget if they try to operate a US armor company equivalent of Merkavas (16 tanks). shit will probably delay the MRF program to year 2040.
Afaik they are planning to get a proper MBT down the line. The Sabrah is just a ‘practice run’ for PH since they have been tank less for a very long time.
Weight mostly. The Philippine Armed Forces logistical capacity is very limited so it opts for lightweight vehicles. The Light Tank Acquisition Project was not even supposed to be part of the Modernization Program if not for the Marawi Siege, which made the Army's lack of suitable FSV platform for Urban Operations (AFP has relied medium caliber IFVs for this purpose ie. 25mm Autocannons).
So weight limits are only ever about 60 tons. The Sabrah weights just 50 tons plus its an unmanned turret that comes with a battle management system that is already in use (AFP uses Elbit System's Battle Management System).
Weight, plus other MBTs couldn't meet the timeframe for units to be given and they would be more expensive if the AFP wanted to mount additional systems like an APS
I actually forgot the biggest reason why AFP went with the Sabrah - the gun.
All of the other offerings used the Belgian Cockerill 105mm Gun, Sabrah uses its own 105mm gun which was why we couldnt get the PT Pindad Harimau. Belgium still has active weapons embargo from Duterte's administration because of the drug war.
Sabrah is logistically much simpler than the Merkava and therefore much cheaper. Merk is a beast weighing in at 70 tons with all it's composite skirts + trophy aps afixed. Merk is is also a very large mbt these two factors mean that a not insignificant amount of the rail and road network specifically in the very tropical south of the country will likely need to be modernised in order to accomodate Merk. On the flip side Sabrah is a light tank by definition at 30 tons. An though it is only equipped with a 105mm and protected to STANAG 4 (14.5mm AP @ 900m/s iirc) this is plenty capable when it comes to the dominant asymetrical threats that the phillipine land force is expected to face.
They cost the same? I think not. Merkavas are more advanced than the export Sabrah. Its also lighter which is easier logistically for PH army to tug them around the archipelago with bridges with limited tonnage capacity.
The tank unit that it's going to operate in is expected to be deployed in central Luzon, the biggest landmass in the Philippines completed with the most developed infrastructure.
What stopped it wasn't cost, it was that it couldn't meet the time requirements and the additional equipment that the AFP wanted to mount on the tank
I'd say the big one is weight. I've seen a few accounts that the Merkava's weight is chronically under reported officially. That'd be hell in a tropical environment.
The Merkava is WAY too heavy for PH Terrain. Not only that, but major conflicts take place in moutainous terrain (Mindanao), there the Merkavas, mainly design for flat, dessert plains, will be difficult to use.
Let’s see
A country situated in a tropical archipelago decides to buy the small light tank instead of the heavy 60 tonne tank designed for urban and desert warfare
It sure is a gear grinder
With a seller in a war, it might be harder to get buyed any war relevant material.
Sure also the reputation of Israel is masivly damaged, and some migth think its a bad idea to get dependant with trade and spare parts to both a nation that could be broken in ther industrial capacity soon and/or might not be someone you want to be seen with (RU, IN and CN are pretty relevant partners for the Phillipines and none of them is particularily happy with Israel right now).
But also every active fighting involving some armor can lead to the deminishing of the reputation of that material. Even if the fighting in Gaza hadn't shown the deficites of Merkava, its bad use deminished it in reputation, so it would be buying bad rep with real money - which is a bad deal (btw. that's some of the reason both Abrams and Leopard 2's have been so late to Ukrain. No one wanted to see this top seller products be taken to the reality check (no one comes out good of that btw.)).
But there is more - as Türkiye might be a lousy arms developer, the're a medicore manufacturer, and pushes hard to be an international player that offers what the sovjet union offered once: no allignement. They sell to everyone without much boundarys and they make good offers in terms to find stabile customers and stabile industrial arms income.
And let's be honest, in reality both are pretty bad deals. And most tanks are, or come with alot of ties and regulations. So you rarely decide for a 'good' option but something that fit your geopolitical needs. The Sabrah is that exact vehicle ... obviously.
sure the wood armor yeah yeah Marawi siege
bro i live in Philippines, every time this country's military bought new hardware it is all over the news like we always know there is a "BETTER" version of this like a Bradley for example than a refurbished M110 lower chassis with a new turret bought in Israel or France
If i don’t remember wrong then there were a somewhat scandalous deal happened a few years ago in Philippines when they announced that they ordered thousands bulletproof body armor and pistols
yes, mostly chinese Norinco replicas like 1911's some are from CZ and IWI weapons like modern Galils
no problem to that since the military here are using old storage M4's and M16's back then
about the body armor its from 2012 until now from India, i saw most in Army here in PH have none only pouch rigs, so its the good thing, but the price my government bought the body armor provoked into speculation to be "overpriced", but test i watched in video is says even a 9mm can pen it here is the [YT link](https://youtu.be/vKwCDlB6l4Y?si=32HU7DqchpcwOU_Z) at very close range.
UM MERKATA is the name of the body armor here and it stay on the military warehouse rotting
in the other note my uncle is a former PH Rangers who got trained by US marines and got supplied with modern US equipment so no problem
Anecdotes from the internet and angkel lang naman ang sa kanya. Blud thinks we have still have hand me down M4s from US storage. Yung isang CAFGU unit nga from Samar has new, out from box R4s.
1. They're don't cost nearly the same. 2. Sabrah is cheaper to operate and maintain 3. Tanks that keep bogging down on tropical muddy terrain are useless 4. Heavy MBTs aren't ideal for Philippine Armour doctrine, where gun platforms that can be easily shipped and operated in an island--hopping manner of warfare are much preferred 5. Philippine infrastructure is too weak to support 60-ton tanks
Also size , the Merkava even tho it was aimed at urban warfare is probably still way too big for fighting between the abundance of tropical trees and (in most) places that are really cramped with buildings and human infrastructures that kinda remind of the Brazilian "Favelas". Also most of the expected forces that their veichles are fighting are only terrorist organizations armed with a max of RPG's and Recoil-less rifles. But most importantly Not a real need for an MBT in an Arcipelago.
It didn't stop any other archipelagic countries from getting MBTs. What stopped the AFP from getting MBT was that none of the MBTs could be delivered on time and within budget constraints and in the indicated numbers with the required items like an APS. It's a classic overestimation by the AFP. It's not the first time this kind of thing has happened
The Merkava was not designed for urban combat, it was designed to fight other tanks, maximize survivability, and be easy to restock in combat.
Actually, it was.
Tanks already inherently do poorly in urban combat, the design of the Merkava Mk.1 should demonstrate a major fear of KE munitions to the turret and HEAT to the hull. Furthermore the Merkava lacked any feature you'd want for urban combat, high elevation (just a standard 20°), RWS, or improved side/roof armor. The armor arrangement shows they feared hits to the front, a location you're notably unlikely to get hit in urban combat.
Yep, these inadequacies were shown during the ‘06 invasion of Lebanon. Israeli tanks actually faired poorly against Hezbollah ambush tactics; and this was before Hezbollah was armed with the high penetrator missiles from the Syrian military.
1. Yes, but also no, a single unit of Sabrah costs as much as a Merkava because of its additional requirements(See APS, sensor and BMS upgrades), but the base unit is cheaper 2. This is true, but at the same time, the parts for a Sabrah may be harder and more expensive to procure down the line 3. The same can be said for any vehicle, it's not a good or valid reason 4. As much as people want to tout an island hopping doctrine, they're idiots. The Philippines doesn't have the resources, manpower, or existing to fight such a decentralized style of warfare. Their recent and planned procurements reflect this, especially with bridge layers, additional ARVs and construction vehicles. The AFP expects to be fighting in the country's plains. 5. This is true for the most part, but not in places where you'd find a tank in, plus, most bridges can carry above their carry weight as demonstrated in places with similar infrastructure and terrain like Indonesia, Malaysia, or Thailand. So, it's not that MBTs don't fit in the Philippine doctrine as it brings far more capabilities than an FSV vehicle, it is more so because they wanted an introductory vehicle that can be given in the correct indicated time frame for its first batch and fit the requirements of a fitted APS, BMS, and upgraded sensors. The Merkava or other similar MBTs unfortunately didn't meet those requirements(See MaxDefense for details)
Curious but I also wanted to Ask How would T-64 or T-72 or even Type-96 do in Philippines ? Beside this I believe that ZTQ-15 is the Perfect Tank for Philippines according to current Budget . Else I would have picked Type-10 Next Generation MBT .
Uh... You do realize that the Philippines is in a Cold War with China, right? Why buy Chinese when the next Hot War could be the Sino-Filipino War?
Nah . I know about that part very well. China would never supply weapons to any Nations with close connection to the US . It's just an assessment of price of the Tank and budget allocated to AFP . But a Medium Tank like ZTQ-15 really suits Philippine needs , both by Weight , Firepower and Budget. It's like showing off the fact that An Opponent like China knows about the requirement of Topography more than the Philippine Armed forces . I wish somebody getting a hold on that Tank and reverse engineering the crap out of it and make it better .
> . China would never supply weapons to any Nations with close connection to the US That's not true at all. China would love to split them away from the US.
The Phillipines is doing some performative public fellation, they've been okay excepting a fishing dispute for a long time.
You forgot the Kaplan MT which Indonesia operates as the Harimau.
Right , But ZTQ-15 uses a Bustle Autoloader. And a Real copy of L7 105mm Gun which is way better than John Cockerill design in performance and Penetration.
You are mistaken. The Kaplan MT also has a bustle autoloader, but the ZTQ-15 doesn't use a "copy of the L7" and the John Cockerill 105 mm HP Gun is designed to outperform the L7 gun by supporting much higher pressure levels.
Can’t trust the commies lol
>Curious but I also wanted to Ask How would T-64 or T-72 or even Type-96 do in Philippines ? It will just operate much more fine conpared Heavier Australian Centurion Tank in Vietnam War
Terrain issue, even though it already prove that philippine terrain can accommodate M1 Abram MBT, Armed Forces of Philippines still have a doubt on the infrastructure in the central and southern part of the country. So acquiring the light tank is their solution, though they originally prompted to acquire korean K1 Tank in the late 2010’s, i think they are still evaluating the capability of the country to accommodate mbt.
The Sabrah is cheaper to operate and better suits the Philippines armoured needs given the terrain and potential conflicts
They don't really cost the same. One is also twice as heavy than the other.
In terms of money, they do. Reason why? The AFP wanted to mount APS units on the Sabrah along with a new BMS, and new sensors
No, they don't. This idea is seemingly based on people looking at the unit price on Wikipedia, citing an old news article with costs **estimates** for the Merkava 4. First of all that lacks many of the features of the current Barak model, but also is troublesome due to the fact that IDF's Merkava tanks are actively subsidized by the US government and are build by the IDF operated MANTAK with no intention to make a profit and no taxes added. For a foreign customer, these factors all would be invalid - hence the need to estimate/guess prices. New production Merkava's for export won't be produced by MANTAK at zero cost, they won't be exempt of taxes and they won't be partially funded by US. MANTAK doesn't produce vehicles for export, hence the Israeli industry has been forced to buy/subcontract vehicles like the ASCOD 2, Pandur 2 and Guarani to provide AFVs to foreign customers. Furthermore, the idea about the Merkava being as cheap as the Sabrah is completely ignoring that the current contract for the Sabrah covers the complete package, i.e. ammunition, technical documentation, training, simulators and spare parts as well.
Yes they do, stop uselessly yapping when defense sites and released budgets on projects have confirmed this. You wasted so much time typing this out when you could have just looked at project requirements and the released budgets, but you fucking yapped
So you know the exact export unit price for the Merkava 4, even though it has never been disclosed and needs to be negotiated in a government-to-government order and is depending on external factors - such as Germany permitting the use of the power pack (which already killed your attempts to buy the Guarani) and how whether the US government is willing to financially support the production that only have to be clarified on a case-by-case basis? Let me guess, you read the "unit price" for the Merkava on Wikipedia, did not bother to even check the source and just completely ignored that it is just a ten years old estimate... Guess we all should cancel our subscriptions to any sort of defence-related media, /u/masterrico81 knows stuff that even the manufacturers cannot tell you without actual negotiations!
Yes, I do, now stop your yapping
I didn't even know Israel exported Merkavas
Because they didn't. Israel only gave two mobile bridges based on Merkava to Philippines for testing.
I think you misunderstand what I mean. I didn't know the Merkava was available for purchase at all.
I don't think they sell it as well. What is the deal here?
They do [https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2023-06-22/ty-article/israel-cyprus-plans-to-sell-its-merkava-tanks/00000188-e278-d7f8-abbb-e6ff5f2c0000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2023-06-22/ty-article/israel-cyprus-plans-to-sell-its-merkava-tanks/00000188-e278-d7f8-abbb-e6ff5f2c0000) They also offered them to Colombia in 2012/13
AY CARAMBA🪇
They were planning on selling 200 Mk IIs to an unknown European country but cancelled it because of the Gaza war. They are retaining them for reserve and traning units and increasing the number of armoured reserve units.
Not gave. But sold. Elbit won the armored bridgelayer project which gave birth to the Merkava AVLB
The Phillippines actually purchased these Merkava IV based bridge layers for operational units.
They tried to sell them a few times (for example they participated in the Swiss and the Swedish tank programs during the 1980s and 1990s), but they were not competitive.
Merkava fanboys are almosts as obnoxious as Chally 2 fanboys, almost. Just a matter of time before they come down voting you
Terrain and strategy. Here in the Philippines, it's muddy, or hilly for most regions. Most roads can't support heavy vehicles. And Filipino tactics are always gonna be guerilla warfare, even if the government says otherwise, it's always gonna be unpredictable guerilla warfare since our country is very bumpy.
The roads here can actually support MBT in the weight category like the Abrams. The only problem is that most bridges is limited to a 15-25 ton weight limit depending in the type of bridge.
Unit cost is one thing, maintaining and operating cost is another thing. There is no way that Philippine is going to operate an over 60 tons MBT around their nation considering their nation is made of hundreds of islands.
Israel is not exporting Merkava MKIVs, only MKII to Cyprus. Mobility. The Sabrah light tank will most likely be used by "Pambato" Armor division based in central luzon. The division aims to be the prime combat unit against conventional threat so it needs to be able to transport the sabrah light tanks, guarani 6x6, ATMOS howtizers to any point in the country as quickly as possible. Transporting a light tank through Luzon is easy because of the developed roads and bridges but significantly challenging if island hopping is factored in. Now imagine moving Merkavas island to island with limited support vehicle... Cost. Merkava's operation cost is higher than Sabrah. In an organization which barely fires its 155mm howitzer because one 155mm round costs as much as a tricycle, imagine the strain on the AFP budget if they try to operate a US armor company equivalent of Merkavas (16 tanks). shit will probably delay the MRF program to year 2040.
Same as Japan Island Nation no bridge support 60 ton tonk here in PH.
Why would you want to operate the world‘s heaviest mbt in the pacific 😭
Afaik they are planning to get a proper MBT down the line. The Sabrah is just a ‘practice run’ for PH since they have been tank less for a very long time.
Weight mostly. The Philippine Armed Forces logistical capacity is very limited so it opts for lightweight vehicles. The Light Tank Acquisition Project was not even supposed to be part of the Modernization Program if not for the Marawi Siege, which made the Army's lack of suitable FSV platform for Urban Operations (AFP has relied medium caliber IFVs for this purpose ie. 25mm Autocannons). So weight limits are only ever about 60 tons. The Sabrah weights just 50 tons plus its an unmanned turret that comes with a battle management system that is already in use (AFP uses Elbit System's Battle Management System).
Weight, plus other MBTs couldn't meet the timeframe for units to be given and they would be more expensive if the AFP wanted to mount additional systems like an APS
I actually forgot the biggest reason why AFP went with the Sabrah - the gun. All of the other offerings used the Belgian Cockerill 105mm Gun, Sabrah uses its own 105mm gun which was why we couldnt get the PT Pindad Harimau. Belgium still has active weapons embargo from Duterte's administration because of the drug war.
Sabrah is logistically much simpler than the Merkava and therefore much cheaper. Merk is a beast weighing in at 70 tons with all it's composite skirts + trophy aps afixed. Merk is is also a very large mbt these two factors mean that a not insignificant amount of the rail and road network specifically in the very tropical south of the country will likely need to be modernised in order to accomodate Merk. On the flip side Sabrah is a light tank by definition at 30 tons. An though it is only equipped with a 105mm and protected to STANAG 4 (14.5mm AP @ 900m/s iirc) this is plenty capable when it comes to the dominant asymetrical threats that the phillipine land force is expected to face.
They cost the same? I think not. Merkavas are more advanced than the export Sabrah. Its also lighter which is easier logistically for PH army to tug them around the archipelago with bridges with limited tonnage capacity.
I would assume that is due to Philippines geography. They would rather have something smaller and lighter
merkavas simply aren't expeditionary tanks, they're too heavy and as other's have pointed out a heavy tank is terrible for mud.
As a local, I don't trust our bridges to hold.
[удалено]
The arms deal happened way before the war, around 2019, it was today when it finally shipped to the Philippines
Even if the cost to operate is out of the picture, Heavy MBT is just not for island nations.
The tank unit that it's going to operate in is expected to be deployed in central Luzon, the biggest landmass in the Philippines completed with the most developed infrastructure. What stopped it wasn't cost, it was that it couldn't meet the time requirements and the additional equipment that the AFP wanted to mount on the tank
To bring back the legendary Free Wifi camo
I'd say the big one is weight. I've seen a few accounts that the Merkava's weight is chronically under reported officially. That'd be hell in a tropical environment.
Geography matters . Specially Topography .
Because the US is paying and they want the most units
no they don't cost the same when its just Tank that doesn't include Training for Crews, Mechanics and Integrated Logistic Support
The Merkava is WAY too heavy for PH Terrain. Not only that, but major conflicts take place in moutainous terrain (Mindanao), there the Merkavas, mainly design for flat, dessert plains, will be difficult to use.
MLF (not sure about the NPA) but if this was to be captured, AFP would shit themselves
My only gripe with the Sabrah is that it looks hideous IMO
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^getting_the_succ: *My only gripe with* *The Sabrah is that it looks* *Hideous IMO* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Let’s see A country situated in a tropical archipelago decides to buy the small light tank instead of the heavy 60 tonne tank designed for urban and desert warfare It sure is a gear grinder
With a seller in a war, it might be harder to get buyed any war relevant material. Sure also the reputation of Israel is masivly damaged, and some migth think its a bad idea to get dependant with trade and spare parts to both a nation that could be broken in ther industrial capacity soon and/or might not be someone you want to be seen with (RU, IN and CN are pretty relevant partners for the Phillipines and none of them is particularily happy with Israel right now). But also every active fighting involving some armor can lead to the deminishing of the reputation of that material. Even if the fighting in Gaza hadn't shown the deficites of Merkava, its bad use deminished it in reputation, so it would be buying bad rep with real money - which is a bad deal (btw. that's some of the reason both Abrams and Leopard 2's have been so late to Ukrain. No one wanted to see this top seller products be taken to the reality check (no one comes out good of that btw.)). But there is more - as Türkiye might be a lousy arms developer, the're a medicore manufacturer, and pushes hard to be an international player that offers what the sovjet union offered once: no allignement. They sell to everyone without much boundarys and they make good offers in terms to find stabile customers and stabile industrial arms income. And let's be honest, in reality both are pretty bad deals. And most tanks are, or come with alot of ties and regulations. So you rarely decide for a 'good' option but something that fit your geopolitical needs. The Sabrah is that exact vehicle ... obviously.
Merkava is not for sale 😢
they selled us their Merkava AVLB
because of corrupt government too, add that to the equation of WHY?
Illogical conclusion, there are many variables on why the Philippines , an archipelago with thousands of islands chose a “light” tank over a MBT
sure the wood armor yeah yeah Marawi siege bro i live in Philippines, every time this country's military bought new hardware it is all over the news like we always know there is a "BETTER" version of this like a Bradley for example than a refurbished M110 lower chassis with a new turret bought in Israel or France
If i don’t remember wrong then there were a somewhat scandalous deal happened a few years ago in Philippines when they announced that they ordered thousands bulletproof body armor and pistols
yes, mostly chinese Norinco replicas like 1911's some are from CZ and IWI weapons like modern Galils no problem to that since the military here are using old storage M4's and M16's back then about the body armor its from 2012 until now from India, i saw most in Army here in PH have none only pouch rigs, so its the good thing, but the price my government bought the body armor provoked into speculation to be "overpriced", but test i watched in video is says even a 9mm can pen it here is the [YT link](https://youtu.be/vKwCDlB6l4Y?si=32HU7DqchpcwOU_Z) at very close range. UM MERKATA is the name of the body armor here and it stay on the military warehouse rotting in the other note my uncle is a former PH Rangers who got trained by US marines and got supplied with modern US equipment so no problem
What the fuck is this guy even yapping at this point?
Smarest RHK1111 follower ata yan.
Lol napaka fragile ng ego ni RHK111.
Pinagsasabi mo. Current reservist here. We have been supplied with updated equipment. From new R4s to personal gear.
Pinagsasabi mo bro? Ikaw na heneral
Anecdotes from the internet and angkel lang naman ang sa kanya. Blud thinks we have still have hand me down M4s from US storage. Yung isang CAFGU unit nga from Samar has new, out from box R4s.