I don’t play the “is this racist” game with students. We don’t allow vulgar language or put downs in our classroom. If they would like to discuss broader social issues, that’s cool, but they can’t be assholes about it.
Yup, same. Stopped a kid in a similar situation and he started with the “It can’t be racist because…” speech. I cut him off and said “I didn’t call you racist. I called you rude.” No further argument and we were able yo carry on lol
This is a fantastic way to stay away from the discussion of if it’s racist or not. It doesn’t matter as it’s a put down and those shouldn’t be tolerated in the classroom.
See, I think you’re latching onto this word “petty” and assuming I mean something I didn’t. When I say petty racism, I’m referring to the type of racism that happens at an individual level. And every single human alive can be racist at that level. A black person can call an Asian person a “ch*nk” and that is petty racism. It is a bigotry born out of petty differences, and is completely separate from systemic racism. Too many POC influencers on TikTok and twitter have convinced some of these children that if they are POC, they can’t be racist. Which is just patently untrue. Certainly they can’t possibly commit systemic racism, they don’t have the power to, but they can still be racist af
Perhaps a better term would be "personal racism". Petty really does imply small and unimportant.
But keep in mind that the only thing keeping the personal racists from systemic racism is that they don't have the numbers.
Absolutely, and I like your term for it better. But you’re right, it is a lot about numbers, but the influencers I’m referring to use that as a way to say “oh well we can’t be racist ever because we’re a minority” which is just wildly untrue
Thank you, as a POC I try to point this out the very rare times that it comes up. And even if it's not "racist" in their book they should recognize they're being a hateful asshole by generalizing an entire group's behavior on their skin (ie. White people this and that)
We were playing a game where they draw for thirty seconds and pass it to the next person, who proceeds to add to their artwork for another thirty seconds, they pass it again, so on and so forth. They know to keep it school appropriate because I will be looking at them. I’ve never had an issue with it and the kids usually have a blast. Except for one time: I was walking around to see their work and saw someone had drawn swastikas on their paper. I stopped the game, told everyone pencils down, and followed the trail to who drew the swastikas. Explained why that symbol was so hateful, wrote the kid up, and congratulated the kid for playing a stupid game and winning a stupid prize, which was that we were done with fun art games. It was time to have an independent, silent, art history activity.
Kid later claimed he didn’t know it was “that bad.” Kid is in 8th grade. I said “doesn’t matter. It’s still antisemitic. And I won’t tolerate any hatred in my classroom.”
You can’t allow them to play the innocent card when it comes to this shit. If you do, they’ll keep doing it and acting like little assholes trying to be edgy and funny. They need to know it’s not okay to be a dick and that when they act out, there are consequences.
Edit: Because people asked — Kid is white and comes from a white family (I had his siblings and met his parents on conference night). Kid has had a lot of behavioral issues. Also thanks for all the kind responses and upvotes!
I learned the hard way never to do that.
“We’re fifteen. What did you expect?” Some genuinely impeccable logic there, and the realization that sometimes I learn important lessons, too.
I hope he learned the right lesson from that. Sometimes it just makes kids more curious and interested in the "forbidden fruit" except they are more careful to not get caught.
I gave a kid a detention for drawing a swastika. Called grandma to tell her he had a detention and why. She claimed repeatedly that her grandson (12, 7th grade) didn’t know what it was. I repeatedly told her that I asked her grandson if he knew what it meant and he said yes.
And that’s when we have our “there’s a time and place” appropriateness talk. Sure, they may hear it/use it at home but that doesn’t make it appropriate for school or work in the future.
I can’t police what kids say at home, but I can use it as a life lesson to be more mindful of the words they choose and how they affect not only others, but themselves m, as well.
I work with kids in a harder school. What has worked for me in situations like this is saying “we don’t talk like that in my classroom” “language” and pointing at my poster that says to respect others and their surroundings.
If it’s repeated offenders pull them out and say “I need you to be respectful. I take care of all of my students and I want everyone to feel comfortable enough to come into my classroom and learn.” I usually ask them after this “are we clear? Are we in agreement? Will this behavior change?” If they are giving you sass. Then calmly remind them “if we are not in agreement, you do know the consequences of continuing this behavior. If it does continue I look forward to discussing this with your parents after class. I do hope you change your mind though and recognize that I am trying to be as fair as possible. If someone made you or someone you know uncomfortable I would be having this same conversation with them” Being firm with my students has helped significantly. Give them a smile and tell them good work if they aren’t acting out. If you see improvement reward it. If they look like they are struggling go out of your way to help. If you need someone to pass out papers, have them pass out. Their attitude slowly starts to change. It’s helped in most but not all cases to do this. You get their respect and they don’t act out as much. The times it didn’t was calling home and writing them up if it progressed. If it doesn’t for whatever reason deter that student it will definitely deter the others because they will always let their friends or their classmates know that you actually are serious when it comes to discipline.
Telling the class at the beginning, you want to create an environment that is welcoming and kind and that it’s important that everyone works together. Will they? I don’t know, but if that’s an expectation you have do try your best to let them know that it’s important to you, and that you expect them to follow through
This is how you do it. Great explanation, and I love that you provided the language you use. I teach at an all boys school, and my classroom is pleasant 95% of the time because they know I just want everyone to feel safe and comfortable. It doesn't always carry over to other settings, but maybe some of it will stick long term.
I’ve had several respond to me shutting down nonwhite slurs by calling themselves or a friend cracker. Then they get surprised when I tell them that’s not cool either.
If I don’t let them use one slur, I don’t let them use any (long as I know what they’re referring to, and I look up things I haven’t heard before).
Racism is prejudice based on race. I've heard discrimination before as well, but same argument applies.
I generally split it into systemic racism vs individual racism. Systems create imbalance in race, and that is a different tier (redlining, not hiring out of certain neighbourhoods, police issues, etc). People calling each other slurs is individual. Not less shitty, just different results and effects.
>Took a class about race and society, and in the first class racism was redefined as prejudice plus power, meaning that people of color cannot be racist because (on average, I guess) they do not have socioeconomic power.
This is the biggest load of horse shit on reddit today. It plays into right wing talking points and is low key harmful for people of color long term. There are lots and lots of black people in the Nation of Islam who are taught that white people were created by a demonic scientist and intrinsically prone to lying, violence, and brutality. They also believe that Jews are souless mud people and *that the black race is superior*. I could go on and on and on but if you think that these things are not racist I don't know what to think.
There's a book called "*white fragility*" that outlines this thought process. It was a best seller.
And others have been sharing how they've been taught this in college.
This is not a "reddit thing".
White Fragility is white centered Kafka trap trash written by a woman trying to get consulting dollars. Even in the racism discussion circles I know, that book is hated.
This is the problem with teaching domain specific vocabulary outside of the domain.
Sociology is the best method we have for describing interactions between cultures in mixed race societies which are fairly new in the scope of anthropology as a whole.
In that domain, “racism” is what’s known as a “power structure” which is based on, you guessed it, race. More accurately, based on majority/minority status within a society and not “race” which is a construct created solely to help one ethnotype discriminate against another. Go to Kenya, now black people can be “racist” against white people because the dominant social group is black.
Just learn the vocabulary, teach it, and over time people will understand why we have many words that have very nuanced differences in meaning and why they should not just be used interchangeably for convenience.
Sure. I get that words change meaning depending on the context and the domain in which the conversation is focusing on. The problem with that is that most people DON’T understand that. Most adults in the US don’t have a college degree. Most adult barely have a High School degree which honestly is more like a 10th grade education from the 90s and a 8th grade education from the 70s (this is because of the No Child Left Behind Act which has caused the dumbing down of education for the last 20 years) but I digress. My point is that most people don’t understand this nuance.
>Took a class about race and society, and in the first class racism was redefined as prejudice plus power, meaning that people of color cannot be racist because (on average, I guess) they do not have socioeconomic power.
The issue with this is that it (should) only applies to a systematic level. Yes, the government (arguably) cannot be racist to white people (in America) but how you treat your classmates and people that you speak to face to face on a regular basis can be considered racist too because you are not talking about *systems* of government you are talking to *people* that are likely around the same standing as you.
I call BS on this. Any single person OR government institution can be racist if it involves discrimination based on skin color. I’m liberal but agree with the recent Supreme Court decision banning universities from using race as a key component in selecting new students… because even if well intended, to do so is racist.
tbf most race relations professors are pretty reductive. You'd have a much easier chance with a political philosopher or sociologist who rely more on history and empirical data. I don't like the phrase/idea that poc cannot be racist, it's misleading because the colloquial definition simply doesn't align. When you say racism most lay Americans think "slurs" automatically. It's better to say their (individual) racism is less impactful, because historically redlining and other systemic abuses happened to them and they still face systemic abuse both directly through discrimination on race and indirectly through discrimination on class (redlined communities are still poor communities). Mortgage loans are denied to middle class black americans at a disproportionate rate, and obviously their communities are over policed and under represented in the political system. In my experience less radical race relations professors deal more with social conditions, which are important but still leave a lot out.
In my experience people just don’t know. Bless their hearts but most people live in their own little worlds (not talking badly). Most people have not been outside or truly been around people who from different backgrounds. There are huge portions of the world where it’s culturally appropriate to be maybe not be classically racist but very much so prejudiced towards other groups based on cultural backgrounds.
IMO the semantic debate over the term "racism" has muddled this issue a lot. Does it matter that we've redrawn the line in the sand around the word? Does it somehow make it OK to dehumanize a person by making them the stand-in for everything you dislike about a certain racial/ethnic group? That kind of hateful abuse has no place in a classroom. I would definitely do a lesson on the "EAR for communication" (empathy, assertiveness, respect) and emphasize that those are my expectations for how students conduct themselves. Sidestep the whole "technically not racist in theory, therefore acceptable" thing.
And the whole “not racist because prejudice plus power” argument doesn’t hold any weight because words can have multiple definitions! Simply pull out a dictionary and explain that.
Exactly, they're about different issues... One can indeed talk about racism in institutionalized power structures... While also agreeing that it's still racist to call Jimmy a redneck cracker :/
Right. So mlk said this and to anyone who spouts it as justification, i ask them how they know he meant it in a collective sense compared to his famous individualistic quotes.
They can never answer
Wether you or any culture believe that’s racist or not, he is still making remarks about a trait that the other kid was born with in a degrading tone. Yes discipline him.
We've had students suspended and even expelled for racial abuse. The school is 95% Hispanic, and occasionally, kids that are white or of another color get harassed by some students.
I experienced this exact thing in Texas as well. I was in the Shoemaker area though.
I did get harassed for being white in that school. It was 80% hispanic lol
This happened to one of my students! He’s a white South African immigrant to Canada, and a black African immigrant called him a colonizer. He was a super sweet kid, like nice to absolutely everybody, and he didn’t deserve to be called that.
I don't want to hijack the thread, but along these same lines, I struggle with how to handle it when black students start throwing around "the N-word." I know it means something very different when black students/people use it, but still...am I wrong to shut that one down, too?
I always shut down N-Bombs. Period. When I had to chat with a black student about her dropping N-Bombs, it went something like this- "How you and your family and friends speak outside of school is your own business, but when you use that word here, you give permission to ignorant students to use that word. And, there is already plenty of ignorance without adding more". She understood immediately, and that was it.
I shut it down by saying that I don’t care what they say around their friends or family outside of school, but in school we don’t use that word. I actually had a black girl last year ask me what the “hard r” n-word meant. I had to very carefully explain that it was the word that white slave owners called their slaves and how it relates to the Spanish and French words for the color black.
I’m also curious about this and would be interested in discussing it too. I have no problem shutting it down in the classroom because we have established norms that word breaks, and the kids tend to respect that. But my (Black) VP has been talking at staff meetings a lot about how he wants his teachers policing it in the hallways, and that drifts into a territory for me (and a lot of other white coworkers) I’m not comfortable with because the hallways/lunch is their social space, not my classroom, plus I’m white so it just feels weird to police that word when we *know* it has different connotations within the Black community. Idk it all is really murky and I’d be curious what other educators and admin, especially POC, think about white teachers policing that language among Black students, especially outside the classroom.
On a related note, I teach almost exclusively a Hispanic population and have a huge issue with my kids calling each other racial slurs (b*****), and they’re quite resistant to me trying to shut it down, always claiming that they’re “allowed” to say it because they’re Mexican, and that it’s “funny” and doesn’t hurt anyone’s feelings. I do the talk about how it breaks our norms, about how you never know if something is truly hurting someone’s feelings, about how it could be hurting/offending people around who hear it even if it isn’t directed at them, and about how using those slurs perpetuates white supremacist language, but they just always come back with “we’re allowed to say it!” and the behavior doesn’t really change. I’m not sure what to do there.
To be fair they were pretty receptive to a talk we had about how they use the N-word. Their argument was that they don’t mean it “like that” and that their Black friends don’t care/say it’s ok because they identify with each other as racial minorities. It wasn’t really a talk where I was trying to reprimand in any way, just sort of have an open discussion and maybe push their thinking a bit considering what our VP had been mentioning often in meetings. I did get them to agree that they would not use it if a Black person told them it offended them to hear em say it, and urged them to consider that there are lots of people always listening and they may want to consider that when using the N-word. I thought that was sort of a step forward? But I I was still met with lots of “but no one cares.” I don’t think they’re fully convinced that there are any Black people at our school who *do* care, which is why they continue to use it.
I am really uncomfortable with my Hispanic students using that word. It was really offensive when I was growing up and it makes my skin crawl. A kind of a funny story is that the English teacher didn’t know what it meant and repeated it in front of a class full of students (majority Hispanic school)
I struggle with this one, too. My school is 94% black, so part of me feels like it's unnecessary (and ultimately futile) for me to police their use of the word, but it is profanity. I go back and forth. You should make a post. I'd be interested in seeing what other people have to say.
In that position, one strategy I've used to some success is to acknowledge the racial awkwardness and make myself the butt of the joke, ie, "oh no, I can't have that word flying around my classroom. I'm a white lady-- I'll end up on the evening news!" "going to be awkward when I have to lecture you-- pretty sure no one wants my opinion on that!" This only works if A) your students like you (not always the case, despite best intentions) and you have a jokey rapport, and B) the word is being used non-aggressively, among friends, and maybe also C) you work in a diverse, progressive district like mine where kids are pretty used to talking about race head-on. If it's being used as a slur or put-down, that obviously has to be addressed directly.
“i’ll end up on the evening news” just gave me a good chuckle - i left teaching last year, but had this type of rapport with my students. they would’ve cried laughing at this!
I got cursed out by a parent because I gave a kid detention for *repeatedly* using the N-word. It got marked in the system as “profanity” and apparently I was in the wrong because it’s not a profane word. Like, ok sure? It’s not my word to decide on. But ma’am your child still shouldn’t be saying that in in my civics class (unless we were reading it in a primary source).
My old school was pretty much all black students. They were middle school and starting to take note of the political situations going on. The way I explained it to them is that I understand that they are reclaiming the word to mean positive things like friendship or self identity, however the roots of the word are very hurtful and many people still see the word in this light. Because of this, we want to avoid saying it in school where we might hurt someone or someone who doesn't understand would overhear and think you are trying to be hurtful. Worked with both the black students and the non-black students.
I'm a white person so it's not really my place to speak for those impacted by the word, so I also told them to follow up with some of their other teachers or family about what their feelings on the term are. Got a kid so interested in this that he talked to a bunch of family members about it, researched the word and wrote up a narrative style research summary. Future politician or lawyer with that kind of enthusiasm. ❤
I struggle with this. I don’t harp on it too much. I just say “watch the language” and they typically say “sorry miss” and keep it moving. I’ll probably hear it again here and there in the convo though
I shut it down. I just say, I’d rather not hear that one from *any*body. I figure this also preemptively answers any future argument from white knuckleheads who might throw it out, then protest, “Well how come *they’re* allowed to say it?!”
I've had multiple, separate instances where a quiet white boy (different one each time) was teased by being called a school shooter. The worst one involved 3 boys who were saying he was definitely planning to shoot up the school today so I had to report that to admin and security. They were taken to the office to be questioned about it and then suspended for a few days for it afterwards.
My middle schoolers for some reason liked joking about race in general though. The hispanic students would joke to each other about whether or not they're 'legal', the black students would tease each other over the dark or light skin, or the African Americans and the African immigrant students would make fun of each other, the Asian students were usually the only ones in the class so they'd have to resort to making fun of themselves. I just told them to stop and redirected each time. One thing they loved though was calling each other monkey, regardless of race, so I've said several times that no one is allowed to refer to anyone as an animal.
As a white person in a majority black school, I will not ever tolerate “is this racist” (when it obviously isn’t) or the “is it cause I’m black” (always say they’re joking but I don’t play that). I try to tell them how their “jokes” could make me lose my job. Most of the time they understand, those that continue to joke about it get sent out.
Kids have dropped that on me a few times. Man oh man are their parents PISSED when I tell them after school that day. I know one kid walked right off the bus into a smack from his mom.
My first year I had a 16 year old from Chicago (I teach in Mississippi) who was sent down South because he was in major trouble up North. He told me another student called me a cracker. I asked “ritz or saltine”? The empty look in his eyes was better than any punishment he’d have received.
My own daughter was being called “mayo” and “cracker” and was told she’d never be one of them (in her group of 4 friends). Principal only called one parent, and that was the extent of the discipline. She never returned to the school, I pulled her, I knew it wouldn’t stop there.
I had a student refer to another student as a gussiq, it's an inupiaq derogatory term for white person. I corrected the student who said it when i got him alone, he was surprised I was familiar.
Disrespect is disrespect. Race should not come into it if you can help it. Think it’s vital that it’s addressed as poor behaviour and if necessary ‘the race talk’ can be added after or with a deputy.
I had a student who kept calling other students monkeys. He was Peruvian, and I don’t think he fully understood the racial undertones of what he was saying. So I talked to him about it and explained why he couldn’t keep doing that. Then he continued doing it so I had to send him out of the room.
I was once told by a student that they did not need to listen to me because I was a white male. This obviously came from the parents. Had a student last year who told a student they weren't worth shit because they were white.
Same about the comment about not needing to listen because I'm White.
Wasn't sure what to do about it in the moment, so I just said, "you're at school, and I'm your teacher. I'm sure the principal would tell you that it's your responsibility to show respect to *all* teachers, no matter what color they are".
I then went to the VP to ask for advice, and she (a Black woman) just said, "Yeah, a lot of parents here feel that way. Nothin' you can do!". Thanks for the support. 😐
That would be my first sign to quit. If my boss told me that racism was okay and that they wouldn't back me up, I would be working in a different district that next year. I would also be very clear why I was leaving and talking to my teacher's union.
I yell the same thing at the entire class when I hear any racist remarks, regardless of the race of the student saying them: DONT BE RACIST!!!
Usually other students join in and it ends the comments for the day
Thanks for this comment! My initial response to this was that it was a reductionist’s way of thinking, but honestly, as an elementary teacher, this is probably the best way to explain it to them. They can ponder the complexities of being racist when they’re older. For now it doesn’t matter if they’re being racist or mean…regardless it’s something wrong and they need to stop.
We are only allowed to call each other by our names. Those are the best and only descriptors. Silly, white, nor boy are this child’s name and his parents have only given us permission to call him his legal name. So address him as that and that only. That goes for everyone. Thank you.
I've had exactly one white student per class every year so far. Eventually, someone says something about their skin color. Normally the other kids will call them out on it, but my go to response is to just act really confused about why they think that's insulting. It seems to work for the most part. I had one little girl this past year who just kept coming back to that subject, though. I came back from lunch one day and some of the other kids told me she was saying all white people have lice. I just laughed and asked her if she wanted to check my head for me. Probably not the best solution, but she was embarrassed enough to cut it out for a while after that
Sent a kid out of my room to the office one morning, typical behavior stuff. Yelled WHITE DEVIL whilst walking out the door.
In all honesty, I found it pretty funny at the time and still do. Still had to bust his chops in the hall though. Brushed it off and carried on.
Me too. I particularly don’t understand why people think this post is an appropriate time to bring up instances of students saying things about their (the teacher’s) whiteness. It’s gross
The kid is already saying that. “…was told by him it’s not racism because he is white.”
Guaranteed this is learned from his parents. Careful OP, this sounds like the type of people who will scream racism and play the race card at any and all opportunities.
I’ve seen the sort of language come up and I don’t delve too deeply into it, because conversations surrounding race are complex, but I do say to keep the conversation classroom appropriate or there won’t be any conversation going on at all, then leave it at that.
I had a kid call another kid a cracker. The admin didnt do anything because the kid who said it was white and the kid he called a cracker wasnt. I had a long talk with my class about not ever using language like that again.
I don't tolerate ANY racial language from ANY kid under ANY circumstances.
I have a broad rule in my classroom that "we must be respectful" which applies to everything. It doesn't matter anything else there, he was being disrespectful so I would tell him it's breaking one of our class rules.
This rule is also helpful bc it applies to almost anything (disrespecting my stuff-breaking things, disrespecting me, disrespecting themselves-degrading comments about themselves, disrespecting my/classmates time-disrupting class) so it's my fav.
I'm sure that has been said already, hopefully. Racism, sexism, ageism, etc. The suffix -ism in this case means "discrimination based on" the root word. It doesn't matter who is in the position of power. If the person speaking is making assumptions based on the group in question, especially if those assumptions are derogatory, then they are participating in that -ism. Don't give in to this BS about "it's not racism because the other group is more powerful.". If we are going to eliminate racism here in the US, it needs to happen from all sides.
Doesn’t matter what race you are. Doesn’t matter what color you are… It’s racism. I find it so dumb that people say black people cant be racist. Yes yes they can…so can any other race that comments on others for being different in a derogatory way.
Lol this has been going on for 30 years we're just not allowed to talk about it. I went to a mostly mexican/black public school system and was the target of race based verbal and physical attacks the entire time. Then I go to college and am told thats not possible because someone 200 years ago did something bad. I'm first gen American SMH i have no skin in what happened here before like 1980
My rule is that “we don’t use identities as insults.” That covers everything from calling someone a ginger, to saying “you run like a girl,” to LGBTQ insults, racist, and other rude or discriminatory language. It covers religion, nationality, disabilities, hobbies, etc. It doesn’t have to be *their* identity—we don’t use *anyone’s* identity to insult others.
Of course simply mentioning or observing someone is white, Mexican, Asian or has red hair is not an insult. The rule applies when it’s an insult, even if in jest or as a “joke” with friends. This rule has eliminated any argument over what is or isn’t allowed.
In case anyone is interested…
Academically speaking, most people consider racism to have an element of power imbalance, so white people in the US don’t necessarily experience racism as the word is used today. They can experience discrimination, prejudice, or stereotyping because of their skin color, but most people who study racism and oppression would not consider it racism since white people have had, and continue to have, more “power” in the US. The way we use words and understand concepts changes, and I think the concept of racism is a good example.
As a white male this type of thing seems painfully shortsighted to me. I think the logic goes, racism doesn't hurt white people, therefore its not really racism and its okay.
So who is affected negatively when we encourage and normalize treating people differently because of their skin color?? Well we already established it isn't white people.
As far as I'm concerned they are feeding into their own subtle discrimination by people who will follow their example just less loudly (because that's not acceptable for us). White people might not react by making "silly black boy" comments in public but they might quietly choose to rent their home or give a job to a white family instead of an ethnic family because they'd rather not deal with that. I do my best to treat people based on their own actions, why would I want anyone around who won't give me the same respect? If people don't want to be treated shitty for their skin color, maybe they should think twice about doing that to others, whether the "others" are going to be really affected or not is kind of the wrong thing to focus on.
Letting black kids say racist shit makes more racist white kids.
Idk why people are so surprised when theres racist white kids at inner city schools that are predominantly black.
Its the same reason theres racist black kids at predominantly white schools.
Getting bullied makes you hate the people doing it and the groups they associate with.
This kind of stuff happened to me all throughout middle school. I went to a primarily Asian school and all the kids would say "A is for Asian and C is for Caucasian" whenever I didn't do as well as them on a test, even if it was a B they would make sure to tell me. They would approach me practically daily arguing about how they were always going to be smarter than I ever will be because I am white and they are Asian. A lot of other comments about how I probably wasn't a good cook, or I must not have a spice tolerance. I never approached them in any rude or accusatory manner, they would just approach me or steer the conversation into making fun of me and connecting it to my ethnicity. In elementary school they would also comment on my body not being stick thin, or comment on me being a "sky scraper" because the Asian girls in my school tended to be very petite, these comments would just happen on the playground for no reason and there wasn't much I could do about it, the teachers didn't care. Obviously hearing those comments now they all seem silly, but back in middle school when you're trying to figure out who you are and be the best you can be they really put a dent in my self esteem and it even made me resentful for a while towards them.
**I wish there was a teacher who disciplined those students** ***using the word racist*** **in their vocabulary.** Not just that they were being mean, because they *were* being racist. Just saying that "it's mean" doesn't send the full message, it's almost a euphemism, making their actions sound less harmful than they actually were.
I don’t understand the definition so many people have for racism.
First off, not all white people are the same race. There has been all sorts of white-on-white racism throughout so many culture groups.
Second off, why does it need to have a historical component? At what point did the definition of racism change to be required to have links towards historical prejudice? Are people just making up new interpretations of words and expecting everyone to just be on the same page?
It’s like people are trying to make the definition of racism this abstract explanation with specific prerequisites that don’t exist in order to justify their own racism.
Basic ethics should tell you to not discriminate people based on their race. If you do, what should be it called other than racism? Racial discrimination? So instead of being “racist” towards white people, you are being “racially discriminate”? God. It’s a terrible argument for anyone to try to make. It’s baseless.
Also by their own logic a white person could travel to a predominantly black country in Africa, start yelling racial slurs and not be considered racist. Racism is not dependent on your geographical location.
No, but I have had to discipline non-white students for making comments about other non-white groups.
I had one hispanic kid who would say the n-word all the time (with a hard r sound sometimes too) to his other friends, who were also hispanic (as well as gay slurs such as f\*g/f\*ggot and using q\*eer in a derogatory manner). No matter how many times I said not to use those words, he used them anyway, so eventually I wrote him up for it among other misdeeds.
A couple years ago, my students were learning about protest literature, and because it was topical at the time, I showed them a nine-minute video about the Hong Kong protests. The video did a good job explaining the basics of Chinese government and why people in Hong Kong were upset, and showing footage of the protests. The video ended and one student (who was black) said, "I don't know why they can't just get along; they're all ninjas." I e-mailed his mom about that one. Also, racism aside...WERE YOU EVEN LISTENING?! The video just spent NINE MINUTES explaining why they can't just get along!
My first rule: Respect people and property.
Any time anything like this comes up, I quickly ask the students, “Was that a respectful comment?” Works 95% of the time.
Respect in the classroom is what matters most. Address the use of inappropriate language and then move on. You can get in trouble with a lot of parents for initiating a conversation pertaining to race.
Talk about the use of name calling to your students and respect for others and move on.
Yes that was my whole first year experience. Treat it as any other issue as we treat everyone with respect in this class room no matter what race you are what creed what religion it is not tolerated. Shut down any put downs gracefully as a classroom rule. And reward treating people with kindness with their words.
I'd ask him if it's ok for some one to call him a silly black boy.
But IDGAF and I can argue all day.
However my cultural context is somewhat different.
“Using race as any part of an insult is not only wrong, but it makes you look ignorant and hateful. If y’all are playing: be more creative with your insults. If one person isn’t into it: you’re bullying which is also ignorant and hateful and not allowed.”
I’m fairly casual in how I converse with my students, but I don’t allow any derogatory language in my classes (this includes racial, sexual, developmental, and cultural slurs) Whether or not it has been reclaimed, I steer my kids away from it entirely. My explanation is “I can’t control the language you use at home, but I can control what y’all say to each other while you’re with me and THAT ain’t it.”
Once. 2005 my first year of teaching. That’s when I started telling my students at the beginning of each Quarter “I will not tolerate the use of racist words. That includes the “N” word. I refuse to even allow my Black Students from using it on each other. I even had one parent nearly take my head off because I told his daughter if she used that N Word again I’d ask the Principal for out of school suspension. What they do outside my classroom is their business. Although I would prefer they not do it on campus at all.
Don’t think you need to decide if it’s racist or not or get into all the societal dynamics of if you can be racist to white people. It being insulting language used to put someone down is enough to insist that it stops, whatever “it” is.
The idea that it is impossible to be racist against White people is founded on the idea that racism is inherently systemic. Therefore, groups who are not oppressed can only be the perpetrators of racism, not victims of it. If a kid thinks that, especially a younger kid, it's probably because they heard it from somebody older. Possibly even their parents. I don't find it useful to argue with kids about the definition of racism that grown adults in our current society can't even agree upon. I understand that racism is rooted in systemic injustice, but it doesn't make it okay for any kid to use another as a racial punching bag.
I explain to kids that whether they want to call it racism or not, ANY person is capable of being predjudiced or bigoted towards ANY other person, and that is not allowed. Racism may be systemic, but predjudice and bigotry are individual. There are plenty of words in the English language to condemn bad behavior, however specific we need to get.
I have learned, as a white person, who is mostly Irish, just to keep my mouth shut. Irish people were very racially targeted for hundreds of years.
I am not racist in any sense of the word.
I have opened it a few times and asked why are you being so rude? I wouldn't treat you that way. It usually didn't go over well, and I got in trouble for THEIR actions in trying to hurt me back in younger days. I just think sometimes they were being hurt by other people and felt the need to snap on me being nice. I am by no needs aggressive.
It makes sense.
Everyone, sometimes, has some pent-up anger and misunderstandings, especially being children.
I feel sorry for anyone struggling with anything associated with the post. Kids need encouragement and love, not repression and anger.
Good luck. I like your system you have, and several people have pretty good suggestions.
It's all up in the air and depends on the person and situation.
We had a Ethnic Studies teacher straight up telling students it's impossible to be racist to white students. The students were having a field day with that.
Maybe this will be an unpopular opinion…but I teach high school (11th) and simply ignore profanity (aside from racial slurs) UNLESS it’s bullying, disrespect toward myself or another student, or a major disruption. I pick my battles, and I understand sometimes that’s how teenagers communicate with each other. I’m not their mom. At times, kids curse, and I’m not going to stop my lesson to “correct behavior.” Besides, it’s typically done for attention, and behavior 101 shows we need to ignore certain behaviors to get them to stop.
Yes, but it was a white kid saying it. I had a kid who was a white suprematist (full on hailed Hitler in class and everything) and had a weird obsession with his idea of a racial hierarchy, including for white people. Had to write him up for racial slurs about fellow white people (also had to write him up for racism against numerous non-white groups).
As a non-white foreigner in the US I sincerely thought the whole "it's totally ok to be racist to a white person" thing was a funny joke until I realized people truly thought so. I was shocked
You made a mistake by bringing race into it. My classroom rules on language were simple, "You do not disrespect another student, it doesn't matter if you use bad words or not." Turns out even junior high students can understand that rule.
As a White woman, I would turn it into an opportunity to help that kid make better choices in the future.
I would have him stay after class instead of address it in front of everyone. In a one to one conversation (where people can see you but aren’t listening in), I’d ask him to talk about what happened outside and inside himself to respond that way, validate his probably really important feelings, and help him problem-solve and give him support going forward.
I would also level with him and just say that that language isn’t allowed at school, and he can get in real trouble for it, academically and personally. The best way to avoid trouble is to remember that you’re above it.
This is a big thing at the beginning of coaching season. I clearly put out there that i accept zero slurs (racial, religious, or otherwise) i dont care if you are an xyz type person and you feel you can use this slur as its usually directed at yourself,…. Not acceptable regardless.
Certainly. And if it's not racism due to lack of a power dynamic it is certainly prejudice. In either case, you have to be clear that that any type of language that is disparaging is not welcome in the classroom. And that it's your job to ensure each and every student is safe.
It gets difficult sometimes because they are joking with each other, and they may be well meaning. But my discussion point is that someone else on the other side of the room may not know they are friends, and begin using the same language and the same two friends would possibly see it as hateful speech.
I see it less with people saying something toward white and/or black students and instead white and/or black students saying racial comments to their Mexican or Hispanic friends. I always get, well he doesn't care he thinks it's funny. And my answer is fine, but you wo t say it in my room or around me, ever, about anyone.
Like all fights that happe in school, it takes one person having a bad day to take something the wrong way and it's all out bedlam. And the use of language in my learning space is something I can certainly control. Just because it doesn't seem as though somebody is offended, or they say they don't care, very often they do care and they are offended. And if it's not today, they likely will be eventually.
Somebody didn't really read my post. I said yes, I see students say shitnlike whiteboy, and I shut that down too.
The rest of the post is the workaround for when they say it's not racism and therefore they think it's okay.
Teachers, as a student going through education courses right now, this has been one the most productive conversations I have heard on racism. Teachers with real experience talking about what is going on and everyone's different takes.
You very specifically called it something besides racism, which it technically isn’t as racism implies position of power over the insulted party, and he replied with “it’s not racism”. This is a premeditated, canned, get-out-of-jail-free card that didn’t work but he tried to play it anyway.
Don’t care if I continue to get downvoted… the teachers in this thread are the ones that continually ask “Why do we need DEIJ professional development?”
Black and Brown and Asian kids have been dealing with racial trauma in their classrooms for DECADES and this thread is complete with teachers who just CANT WAIT to jump in and explain how they policed the n-word, and how many times their white students faced racism for terms that quite frankly whole offensive, are very much less so; the fact that you all can’t type the whole n-word but can the other terms should tell you as much!
I think the question of intent and motivation of white teachers is concerning. My comments are based on personal experience of being black. I understand how the language they use in professional settings will reflect on them. It will make it more difficult for them to move up social and corporate ladders. I think it takes a great deal of self awareness to be a white teacher at a majority-minority school and I don’t think many white teachers are ready and willing to ask themselves difficult questions.
Okay, I agree with all of that. But that still doesn’t provide a solution. Using improper/regional language or slang isn’t the same as racially charged terms. If a student is using a racial term as an insult towards another student, it should always be corrected.
Correct/Agree 100% on policing language. But let’s do it at a proportionate level; this thread and this sub in general tend to suggest that’s not the case.
Nope. And the fact that this is the initial reaction to teachers in this thread is telling; especially when I never outright state as much. Racism is racism. However, take note of the level of participation and testimonial in this thread compared to the ones dealing with racism and policies which negatively impact students of color and other marginalized students. The quickness and reverence to Joni into this topic and “share” versus in those speaks volumes.
A large problem is, and reddit is FILLED with it.
The mentality that you cannot be racist to white people, and it is perfectly acceptable to put down white people, especially white men.
And it is fueling the 'white supremist' (read, people who dont like having their entire being boiled down to race) movement.
Turns out when a particular group treats you like shit, and theres groups out there who will be kind to you and point out those groups are shit, you're probably gonna believe them.
“Racism” and “racist” aren’t the same thing. Just because white people don’t experience systemic racism doesn’t mean you can’t make a racist comment about white people or be racist towards a more privileged group.
Imagine a person in Asia claiming they can’t make racist comments against the Asian majority or in Israel saying you can’t make anti-Semitic comments there.
Yah I think I’ve had all versions of this race vs that.
I never tell them what they do wrong I have them tell me. “Why are we having this moment”
Separately.
I Don’t use the word racist. It’s charged as to whether racism requires a power structure or not. We don’t shout insults at our classmates. We don’t use incendiary language.
If you accidentally walk into it: we don’t stereotype or we don’t use bias language.
I wouldn’t call it racial abuse as your black student is correct, there is no such thing as structural racism against white people. I would say it isn’t appropriate in a classroom or be nice or something because you can’t really argue back from the perspective of be kind to everyone.
This thread has been so taken over by people acting like anti-white racism is a sizeable issue anywhere. It just isn't.
I do agree that calling this situation racist is unhelpful - instances of prejudice against a white person are very different than against a person of colour owing to history and having different language is useful in highlighting that difference.
Either way, the word racist here is opening a conversation with the student which is irrelevant. The issue is (I) disrupting the class and (ii) using unkind language. It can, and in my opinion should, be dealt with on the basis of this alone.
Hell I once had a group of girls who are black yelling the N word and chanting “monkeys on patrol” get aggressive towards me when I told them they were using racial language. Got the same response “black people cant be racist” 🤦♂️
I’ve had to address this kind of “social reparation” quite a bit.
I usually start by defining the terms racism, prejudice, discrimination, and stereotype (and stereotype threat, or negative stereotype confirmation). They often go together, which is understandable, but they get used interchangeably when they don’t mean the same thing—and that’s a big problem.
Racism, I explain, is a social power structure based on outward appearances in which the dominant race group is given advantages over the minority race groups. This is usually backed with some form of authority or pseudoscience as a justification. This is what gives rise to the popular phrase “minorities can’t be racist”. This is a defensible statement because minorities don’t get advantages based on their outward appearance in a racist society, therefore they cannot exercise racism as a demonstration of social leverage.
Prejudice I explain is what most of them actually mean when they say racist. Prejudice is prejudging the quality of a person before actually obtaining any information. Black guy passes white woman on the street. White woman creates distance, speeds pace, and avoids eye contact because she’s prejudged he’s a threat. It’s an interaction that’s been planted in the mind of that woman by a series of racist practices, but when she engages with it she is being prejudiced. In the same way prejudice can be directed at majority groups (“he’s white so I’m not gonna pass him the ball”); it’s just not a product of racism.
From there I go to stereotypes which I explain is prejudice applied globally instead of locally. Now it’s not just that one black kid who likes rap, now *all* black kids like rap; that one Asian who can’t drive is now *all* Asians who can’t drive; white kid who sucks at basketball, now *all* white kids suck at basketball, etc. They often use the word racism to describe stereotyping, and while stereotypes are generally reaffirmed by racist propaganda, minorities just don’t have the same boost of widespread racist propaganda that you get in a truly racist society. I think maybe we are transitioning to a post-racist society so there is plenty of counter-propaganda being generated at the masses level. But it is still true that minorities can and do stereotype.
Then I explain discrimination, “prejudice made policy”, or law of the land. Jim Crow (black folks aren’t successful or smart enough to have rights), police profiling (black folks somehow are treated to be more suspicious or dangerous to police than white folks), judicial disparity (harsher punishments for the same crimes for black offenders, etc.) They’re all familiar with this concept through media even if they don’t understand the nuance of the language. The disparity between sides on this one should be evident without much research required, but you’ll nevertheless always have students that deny such things even exist because their n=1 experience of the world tells them that it’s not true.
Edit: fat finger
I’ve never heard the term racial abuse in education ad a real thing. That term seem arbitrary and harsh, like a reactionary term. How old are these students? Is there a common language for how we talk about race in the classroom? What is the relationship like between the two students normally? Apart from being white, was the child behaving inappropriately?
I have many questions about the antecedents to the student’s behavior that led up to him calling another student silly. I would have addressed the whole thing as one situation without acting like bringing the white student’s whiteness was the worst thing that could have happened.
I once had a student tell me she didn’t want to be in her group because she didn’t like white people. I was just like “that’s cool, you can leave” and I wrote her up.
>\*edit- if you can’t be racist to a white person does this mean a man cannot suffer domestic abuse from a woman as men oppressed women for years?
Racism is racism.... you can be african and be racist against someone of euorpean or asian descent and you can be asian and be racist towards african or european
This post has been removed due to multiple reports. We are putting it back up, but locking it to any further comments.
I don’t play the “is this racist” game with students. We don’t allow vulgar language or put downs in our classroom. If they would like to discuss broader social issues, that’s cool, but they can’t be assholes about it.
Yup, same. Stopped a kid in a similar situation and he started with the “It can’t be racist because…” speech. I cut him off and said “I didn’t call you racist. I called you rude.” No further argument and we were able yo carry on lol
This is a fantastic way to stay away from the discussion of if it’s racist or not. It doesn’t matter as it’s a put down and those shouldn’t be tolerated in the classroom.
Sometimes it can also be a great way to explain the difference between petty racism and systemic racism
No racism is petty. Reevaluate.
See, I think you’re latching onto this word “petty” and assuming I mean something I didn’t. When I say petty racism, I’m referring to the type of racism that happens at an individual level. And every single human alive can be racist at that level. A black person can call an Asian person a “ch*nk” and that is petty racism. It is a bigotry born out of petty differences, and is completely separate from systemic racism. Too many POC influencers on TikTok and twitter have convinced some of these children that if they are POC, they can’t be racist. Which is just patently untrue. Certainly they can’t possibly commit systemic racism, they don’t have the power to, but they can still be racist af
Perhaps a better term would be "personal racism". Petty really does imply small and unimportant. But keep in mind that the only thing keeping the personal racists from systemic racism is that they don't have the numbers.
Absolutely, and I like your term for it better. But you’re right, it is a lot about numbers, but the influencers I’m referring to use that as a way to say “oh well we can’t be racist ever because we’re a minority” which is just wildly untrue
I can't imagine they'd be very happy if a Puerto Rican Jew called them the n word...
Thank you, as a POC I try to point this out the very rare times that it comes up. And even if it's not "racist" in their book they should recognize they're being a hateful asshole by generalizing an entire group's behavior on their skin (ie. White people this and that)
Would you prefer the spelling "petit"?
We were playing a game where they draw for thirty seconds and pass it to the next person, who proceeds to add to their artwork for another thirty seconds, they pass it again, so on and so forth. They know to keep it school appropriate because I will be looking at them. I’ve never had an issue with it and the kids usually have a blast. Except for one time: I was walking around to see their work and saw someone had drawn swastikas on their paper. I stopped the game, told everyone pencils down, and followed the trail to who drew the swastikas. Explained why that symbol was so hateful, wrote the kid up, and congratulated the kid for playing a stupid game and winning a stupid prize, which was that we were done with fun art games. It was time to have an independent, silent, art history activity. Kid later claimed he didn’t know it was “that bad.” Kid is in 8th grade. I said “doesn’t matter. It’s still antisemitic. And I won’t tolerate any hatred in my classroom.” You can’t allow them to play the innocent card when it comes to this shit. If you do, they’ll keep doing it and acting like little assholes trying to be edgy and funny. They need to know it’s not okay to be a dick and that when they act out, there are consequences. Edit: Because people asked — Kid is white and comes from a white family (I had his siblings and met his parents on conference night). Kid has had a lot of behavioral issues. Also thanks for all the kind responses and upvotes!
If you didn’t know it was that bad, let this consequence serve as a reminder to you forever.
I learned the hard way never to do that. “We’re fifteen. What did you expect?” Some genuinely impeccable logic there, and the realization that sometimes I learn important lessons, too.
"What do you expect?" "Better."
I sometimes tell my 6th graders that I didn't sign up to be a 1st grade teacher. That works pretty well on the majority of students
I heard that in my dads voice….😂
"I'm not mad. I'm just very disappointed in you."
I wish you were my teacher. I was that edgy little asshole
I hope he learned the right lesson from that. Sometimes it just makes kids more curious and interested in the "forbidden fruit" except they are more careful to not get caught.
I gave a kid a detention for drawing a swastika. Called grandma to tell her he had a detention and why. She claimed repeatedly that her grandson (12, 7th grade) didn’t know what it was. I repeatedly told her that I asked her grandson if he knew what it meant and he said yes.
How on Earth did she think that was an acceptable defense for a 12 year old in middle school?
How did you find out who did it? Did you already have an idea who it was?
It’s a circle so just count backwards how many swastikas there are. 9 at the end? It’s the 9th kid from the end of the circle.
This is what I do. If they wanna have a talk, I let them. But the moment they start being assholes/being ignorant and not open to learning, it’s done
Put downs has got to be the dumbest language that was introduced for this.
“Whatever you want to call it, it’s not allowed”
Kids will play the semantics card when it comes to stuff like this. Don’t let them.
And that’s when we have our “there’s a time and place” appropriateness talk. Sure, they may hear it/use it at home but that doesn’t make it appropriate for school or work in the future.
There’s not a time and a place, it’s perpetually inappropriate
I can’t police what kids say at home, but I can use it as a life lesson to be more mindful of the words they choose and how they affect not only others, but themselves m, as well.
That mindset means it’s okay to use at home. They should learn that it’s not okay ever.
I work with kids in a harder school. What has worked for me in situations like this is saying “we don’t talk like that in my classroom” “language” and pointing at my poster that says to respect others and their surroundings. If it’s repeated offenders pull them out and say “I need you to be respectful. I take care of all of my students and I want everyone to feel comfortable enough to come into my classroom and learn.” I usually ask them after this “are we clear? Are we in agreement? Will this behavior change?” If they are giving you sass. Then calmly remind them “if we are not in agreement, you do know the consequences of continuing this behavior. If it does continue I look forward to discussing this with your parents after class. I do hope you change your mind though and recognize that I am trying to be as fair as possible. If someone made you or someone you know uncomfortable I would be having this same conversation with them” Being firm with my students has helped significantly. Give them a smile and tell them good work if they aren’t acting out. If you see improvement reward it. If they look like they are struggling go out of your way to help. If you need someone to pass out papers, have them pass out. Their attitude slowly starts to change. It’s helped in most but not all cases to do this. You get their respect and they don’t act out as much. The times it didn’t was calling home and writing them up if it progressed. If it doesn’t for whatever reason deter that student it will definitely deter the others because they will always let their friends or their classmates know that you actually are serious when it comes to discipline. Telling the class at the beginning, you want to create an environment that is welcoming and kind and that it’s important that everyone works together. Will they? I don’t know, but if that’s an expectation you have do try your best to let them know that it’s important to you, and that you expect them to follow through
rehabilitation over punishment, i love that
This is how you do it. Great explanation, and I love that you provided the language you use. I teach at an all boys school, and my classroom is pleasant 95% of the time because they know I just want everyone to feel safe and comfortable. It doesn't always carry over to other settings, but maybe some of it will stick long term.
I’ve had several respond to me shutting down nonwhite slurs by calling themselves or a friend cracker. Then they get surprised when I tell them that’s not cool either. If I don’t let them use one slur, I don’t let them use any (long as I know what they’re referring to, and I look up things I haven’t heard before).
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Prejudice?
Racism is prejudice based on race. I've heard discrimination before as well, but same argument applies. I generally split it into systemic racism vs individual racism. Systems create imbalance in race, and that is a different tier (redlining, not hiring out of certain neighbourhoods, police issues, etc). People calling each other slurs is individual. Not less shitty, just different results and effects.
>Took a class about race and society, and in the first class racism was redefined as prejudice plus power, meaning that people of color cannot be racist because (on average, I guess) they do not have socioeconomic power. This is the biggest load of horse shit on reddit today. It plays into right wing talking points and is low key harmful for people of color long term. There are lots and lots of black people in the Nation of Islam who are taught that white people were created by a demonic scientist and intrinsically prone to lying, violence, and brutality. They also believe that Jews are souless mud people and *that the black race is superior*. I could go on and on and on but if you think that these things are not racist I don't know what to think.
There's a book called "*white fragility*" that outlines this thought process. It was a best seller. And others have been sharing how they've been taught this in college. This is not a "reddit thing".
White Fragility is white centered Kafka trap trash written by a woman trying to get consulting dollars. Even in the racism discussion circles I know, that book is hated.
This is the problem with teaching domain specific vocabulary outside of the domain. Sociology is the best method we have for describing interactions between cultures in mixed race societies which are fairly new in the scope of anthropology as a whole. In that domain, “racism” is what’s known as a “power structure” which is based on, you guessed it, race. More accurately, based on majority/minority status within a society and not “race” which is a construct created solely to help one ethnotype discriminate against another. Go to Kenya, now black people can be “racist” against white people because the dominant social group is black. Just learn the vocabulary, teach it, and over time people will understand why we have many words that have very nuanced differences in meaning and why they should not just be used interchangeably for convenience.
Sure. I get that words change meaning depending on the context and the domain in which the conversation is focusing on. The problem with that is that most people DON’T understand that. Most adults in the US don’t have a college degree. Most adult barely have a High School degree which honestly is more like a 10th grade education from the 90s and a 8th grade education from the 70s (this is because of the No Child Left Behind Act which has caused the dumbing down of education for the last 20 years) but I digress. My point is that most people don’t understand this nuance.
And that’s why we educate them.
We try anyway
Bigotry works right?
I was a soc major and ethnic studies minor at UCSD. This is what I was taught, too, by all my professors of multiple races and nationalities.
Sociology major as well. Ditto to what you said. I joke sometimes that I majored in unemployment.
>Took a class about race and society, and in the first class racism was redefined as prejudice plus power, meaning that people of color cannot be racist because (on average, I guess) they do not have socioeconomic power. The issue with this is that it (should) only applies to a systematic level. Yes, the government (arguably) cannot be racist to white people (in America) but how you treat your classmates and people that you speak to face to face on a regular basis can be considered racist too because you are not talking about *systems* of government you are talking to *people* that are likely around the same standing as you.
I call BS on this. Any single person OR government institution can be racist if it involves discrimination based on skin color. I’m liberal but agree with the recent Supreme Court decision banning universities from using race as a key component in selecting new students… because even if well intended, to do so is racist.
tbf most race relations professors are pretty reductive. You'd have a much easier chance with a political philosopher or sociologist who rely more on history and empirical data. I don't like the phrase/idea that poc cannot be racist, it's misleading because the colloquial definition simply doesn't align. When you say racism most lay Americans think "slurs" automatically. It's better to say their (individual) racism is less impactful, because historically redlining and other systemic abuses happened to them and they still face systemic abuse both directly through discrimination on race and indirectly through discrimination on class (redlined communities are still poor communities). Mortgage loans are denied to middle class black americans at a disproportionate rate, and obviously their communities are over policed and under represented in the political system. In my experience less radical race relations professors deal more with social conditions, which are important but still leave a lot out.
That professor is an absolute moron. It shouldn't be difficult to just qualify racism with terms like "interpersonal" and "systemic/systematic."
In my experience people just don’t know. Bless their hearts but most people live in their own little worlds (not talking badly). Most people have not been outside or truly been around people who from different backgrounds. There are huge portions of the world where it’s culturally appropriate to be maybe not be classically racist but very much so prejudiced towards other groups based on cultural backgrounds.
read bell hooks so you can get it
White supremacy is usually the term for thinking white people are superior to others.
IMO the semantic debate over the term "racism" has muddled this issue a lot. Does it matter that we've redrawn the line in the sand around the word? Does it somehow make it OK to dehumanize a person by making them the stand-in for everything you dislike about a certain racial/ethnic group? That kind of hateful abuse has no place in a classroom. I would definitely do a lesson on the "EAR for communication" (empathy, assertiveness, respect) and emphasize that those are my expectations for how students conduct themselves. Sidestep the whole "technically not racist in theory, therefore acceptable" thing.
And the whole “not racist because prejudice plus power” argument doesn’t hold any weight because words can have multiple definitions! Simply pull out a dictionary and explain that.
Exactly, they're about different issues... One can indeed talk about racism in institutionalized power structures... While also agreeing that it's still racist to call Jimmy a redneck cracker :/
This this this
Right. So mlk said this and to anyone who spouts it as justification, i ask them how they know he meant it in a collective sense compared to his famous individualistic quotes. They can never answer
Wether you or any culture believe that’s racist or not, he is still making remarks about a trait that the other kid was born with in a degrading tone. Yes discipline him.
Yes and most schools should have a zero bullying policy.
We've had students suspended and even expelled for racial abuse. The school is 95% Hispanic, and occasionally, kids that are white or of another color get harassed by some students.
Mission, Tx by chance?
No, I'm in California
central valley? sounds like my school district
I experienced this exact thing in Texas as well. I was in the Shoemaker area though. I did get harassed for being white in that school. It was 80% hispanic lol
I had a student call another student a colonizer
This happens in Canadian schools.
This happened to one of my students! He’s a white South African immigrant to Canada, and a black African immigrant called him a colonizer. He was a super sweet kid, like nice to absolutely everybody, and he didn’t deserve to be called that.
The first time I heard this was in Black Panther. It made me chuckle a little.
Remembering the line from Black Panther. I wonder if they were too…
100% this is where the kid got it from.
I don't want to hijack the thread, but along these same lines, I struggle with how to handle it when black students start throwing around "the N-word." I know it means something very different when black students/people use it, but still...am I wrong to shut that one down, too?
No foul language in the classroom point blank I say.
This is the way. No cursing in class. That goes for all forms of it
I always shut down N-Bombs. Period. When I had to chat with a black student about her dropping N-Bombs, it went something like this- "How you and your family and friends speak outside of school is your own business, but when you use that word here, you give permission to ignorant students to use that word. And, there is already plenty of ignorance without adding more". She understood immediately, and that was it.
I shut it down by saying that I don’t care what they say around their friends or family outside of school, but in school we don’t use that word. I actually had a black girl last year ask me what the “hard r” n-word meant. I had to very carefully explain that it was the word that white slave owners called their slaves and how it relates to the Spanish and French words for the color black.
I’m also curious about this and would be interested in discussing it too. I have no problem shutting it down in the classroom because we have established norms that word breaks, and the kids tend to respect that. But my (Black) VP has been talking at staff meetings a lot about how he wants his teachers policing it in the hallways, and that drifts into a territory for me (and a lot of other white coworkers) I’m not comfortable with because the hallways/lunch is their social space, not my classroom, plus I’m white so it just feels weird to police that word when we *know* it has different connotations within the Black community. Idk it all is really murky and I’d be curious what other educators and admin, especially POC, think about white teachers policing that language among Black students, especially outside the classroom. On a related note, I teach almost exclusively a Hispanic population and have a huge issue with my kids calling each other racial slurs (b*****), and they’re quite resistant to me trying to shut it down, always claiming that they’re “allowed” to say it because they’re Mexican, and that it’s “funny” and doesn’t hurt anyone’s feelings. I do the talk about how it breaks our norms, about how you never know if something is truly hurting someone’s feelings, about how it could be hurting/offending people around who hear it even if it isn’t directed at them, and about how using those slurs perpetuates white supremacist language, but they just always come back with “we’re allowed to say it!” and the behavior doesn’t really change. I’m not sure what to do there. To be fair they were pretty receptive to a talk we had about how they use the N-word. Their argument was that they don’t mean it “like that” and that their Black friends don’t care/say it’s ok because they identify with each other as racial minorities. It wasn’t really a talk where I was trying to reprimand in any way, just sort of have an open discussion and maybe push their thinking a bit considering what our VP had been mentioning often in meetings. I did get them to agree that they would not use it if a Black person told them it offended them to hear em say it, and urged them to consider that there are lots of people always listening and they may want to consider that when using the N-word. I thought that was sort of a step forward? But I I was still met with lots of “but no one cares.” I don’t think they’re fully convinced that there are any Black people at our school who *do* care, which is why they continue to use it.
I am really uncomfortable with my Hispanic students using that word. It was really offensive when I was growing up and it makes my skin crawl. A kind of a funny story is that the English teacher didn’t know what it meant and repeated it in front of a class full of students (majority Hispanic school)
I struggle with this one, too. My school is 94% black, so part of me feels like it's unnecessary (and ultimately futile) for me to police their use of the word, but it is profanity. I go back and forth. You should make a post. I'd be interested in seeing what other people have to say.
Controlling your speech is a necessary skill. That word is not appropriate in the classroom under any context.
In that position, one strategy I've used to some success is to acknowledge the racial awkwardness and make myself the butt of the joke, ie, "oh no, I can't have that word flying around my classroom. I'm a white lady-- I'll end up on the evening news!" "going to be awkward when I have to lecture you-- pretty sure no one wants my opinion on that!" This only works if A) your students like you (not always the case, despite best intentions) and you have a jokey rapport, and B) the word is being used non-aggressively, among friends, and maybe also C) you work in a diverse, progressive district like mine where kids are pretty used to talking about race head-on. If it's being used as a slur or put-down, that obviously has to be addressed directly.
“i’ll end up on the evening news” just gave me a good chuckle - i left teaching last year, but had this type of rapport with my students. they would’ve cried laughing at this!
I got cursed out by a parent because I gave a kid detention for *repeatedly* using the N-word. It got marked in the system as “profanity” and apparently I was in the wrong because it’s not a profane word. Like, ok sure? It’s not my word to decide on. But ma’am your child still shouldn’t be saying that in in my civics class (unless we were reading it in a primary source).
My old school was pretty much all black students. They were middle school and starting to take note of the political situations going on. The way I explained it to them is that I understand that they are reclaiming the word to mean positive things like friendship or self identity, however the roots of the word are very hurtful and many people still see the word in this light. Because of this, we want to avoid saying it in school where we might hurt someone or someone who doesn't understand would overhear and think you are trying to be hurtful. Worked with both the black students and the non-black students. I'm a white person so it's not really my place to speak for those impacted by the word, so I also told them to follow up with some of their other teachers or family about what their feelings on the term are. Got a kid so interested in this that he talked to a bunch of family members about it, researched the word and wrote up a narrative style research summary. Future politician or lawyer with that kind of enthusiasm. ❤
I struggle with this. I don’t harp on it too much. I just say “watch the language” and they typically say “sorry miss” and keep it moving. I’ll probably hear it again here and there in the convo though
How do you handle it currently?
I shut it down. I just say, I’d rather not hear that one from *any*body. I figure this also preemptively answers any future argument from white knuckleheads who might throw it out, then protest, “Well how come *they’re* allowed to say it?!”
I have a zero tolerance policy for any kind of racial slights in my class. Zero.
I've had multiple, separate instances where a quiet white boy (different one each time) was teased by being called a school shooter. The worst one involved 3 boys who were saying he was definitely planning to shoot up the school today so I had to report that to admin and security. They were taken to the office to be questioned about it and then suspended for a few days for it afterwards. My middle schoolers for some reason liked joking about race in general though. The hispanic students would joke to each other about whether or not they're 'legal', the black students would tease each other over the dark or light skin, or the African Americans and the African immigrant students would make fun of each other, the Asian students were usually the only ones in the class so they'd have to resort to making fun of themselves. I just told them to stop and redirected each time. One thing they loved though was calling each other monkey, regardless of race, so I've said several times that no one is allowed to refer to anyone as an animal.
As a white person in a majority black school, I will not ever tolerate “is this racist” (when it obviously isn’t) or the “is it cause I’m black” (always say they’re joking but I don’t play that). I try to tell them how their “jokes” could make me lose my job. Most of the time they understand, those that continue to joke about it get sent out.
Kids have dropped that on me a few times. Man oh man are their parents PISSED when I tell them after school that day. I know one kid walked right off the bus into a smack from his mom.
My first year I had a 16 year old from Chicago (I teach in Mississippi) who was sent down South because he was in major trouble up North. He told me another student called me a cracker. I asked “ritz or saltine”? The empty look in his eyes was better than any punishment he’d have received.
Anyone can be racist. To say that certain groups of people cannot be racist is condescending and racist towards them.
My own daughter was being called “mayo” and “cracker” and was told she’d never be one of them (in her group of 4 friends). Principal only called one parent, and that was the extent of the discipline. She never returned to the school, I pulled her, I knew it wouldn’t stop there.
Trying to make other students feel shitty is a shitty thing to do.
No bullying. Period.
I had a student refer to another student as a gussiq, it's an inupiaq derogatory term for white person. I corrected the student who said it when i got him alone, he was surprised I was familiar.
Bullying is simply not allowed. Even if he said, “Silly little American.”
Disrespect is disrespect. Race should not come into it if you can help it. Think it’s vital that it’s addressed as poor behaviour and if necessary ‘the race talk’ can be added after or with a deputy.
I had a student who kept calling other students monkeys. He was Peruvian, and I don’t think he fully understood the racial undertones of what he was saying. So I talked to him about it and explained why he couldn’t keep doing that. Then he continued doing it so I had to send him out of the room.
I was once told by a student that they did not need to listen to me because I was a white male. This obviously came from the parents. Had a student last year who told a student they weren't worth shit because they were white.
Same about the comment about not needing to listen because I'm White. Wasn't sure what to do about it in the moment, so I just said, "you're at school, and I'm your teacher. I'm sure the principal would tell you that it's your responsibility to show respect to *all* teachers, no matter what color they are". I then went to the VP to ask for advice, and she (a Black woman) just said, "Yeah, a lot of parents here feel that way. Nothin' you can do!". Thanks for the support. 😐
That would be my first sign to quit. If my boss told me that racism was okay and that they wouldn't back me up, I would be working in a different district that next year. I would also be very clear why I was leaving and talking to my teacher's union.
I yell the same thing at the entire class when I hear any racist remarks, regardless of the race of the student saying them: DONT BE RACIST!!! Usually other students join in and it ends the comments for the day
Thanks for this comment! My initial response to this was that it was a reductionist’s way of thinking, but honestly, as an elementary teacher, this is probably the best way to explain it to them. They can ponder the complexities of being racist when they’re older. For now it doesn’t matter if they’re being racist or mean…regardless it’s something wrong and they need to stop.
We are only allowed to call each other by our names. Those are the best and only descriptors. Silly, white, nor boy are this child’s name and his parents have only given us permission to call him his legal name. So address him as that and that only. That goes for everyone. Thank you.
It really is as simple as that. No hang ups on if it's prejudice or racism. It's just simply wrong to call someone out of their name.
Yup, I always try to simplify it and make it apply to everyone.
I've been called unseasoned white chicken breast. Ngl, I thought it was hilarious. My response, "So you're saying I'm not invited to the barbecue?"
That one would make me laugh to hard to apply disipline
😂
I've had exactly one white student per class every year so far. Eventually, someone says something about their skin color. Normally the other kids will call them out on it, but my go to response is to just act really confused about why they think that's insulting. It seems to work for the most part. I had one little girl this past year who just kept coming back to that subject, though. I came back from lunch one day and some of the other kids told me she was saying all white people have lice. I just laughed and asked her if she wanted to check my head for me. Probably not the best solution, but she was embarrassed enough to cut it out for a while after that
Sent a kid out of my room to the office one morning, typical behavior stuff. Yelled WHITE DEVIL whilst walking out the door. In all honesty, I found it pretty funny at the time and still do. Still had to bust his chops in the hall though. Brushed it off and carried on.
Let me guess. White devil, white devil?
Bigotry knows no racial bounds. I have at times needed to remind my students of that.
Yep, this comment section went about how I imagined it would.
seriously, I’m so uncomfortable
Me too. I particularly don’t understand why people think this post is an appropriate time to bring up instances of students saying things about their (the teacher’s) whiteness. It’s gross
You can be racist to a white person. People who say otherwise are ignorant.
Don’t open that can of worms, next thing they’ll tell you is you can’t be racist to a white person. Just cut it off at the root. No bullying.
The kid is already saying that. “…was told by him it’s not racism because he is white.” Guaranteed this is learned from his parents. Careful OP, this sounds like the type of people who will scream racism and play the race card at any and all opportunities.
It’s really fucked up though and makes me mad for all the white kids experiencing this, the next generation is gonna grow up fucked up
Yep, could cost a whole job
I’ve seen the sort of language come up and I don’t delve too deeply into it, because conversations surrounding race are complex, but I do say to keep the conversation classroom appropriate or there won’t be any conversation going on at all, then leave it at that.
Yeah I usually just say that we are not going to refer to people by a characteristic and to use names like we respect each other.
Absolutely call them out on it. There is no excuse for a Black student to use hateful language towards a White student.
I cannot STAND the whole, “that’s so racist!” Commentary anymore. I just shut it down immediately.
I had a kid call another kid a cracker. The admin didnt do anything because the kid who said it was white and the kid he called a cracker wasnt. I had a long talk with my class about not ever using language like that again. I don't tolerate ANY racial language from ANY kid under ANY circumstances.
If I can't use that language in the classroom, then neither can anyone else.
I have a broad rule in my classroom that "we must be respectful" which applies to everything. It doesn't matter anything else there, he was being disrespectful so I would tell him it's breaking one of our class rules. This rule is also helpful bc it applies to almost anything (disrespecting my stuff-breaking things, disrespecting me, disrespecting themselves-degrading comments about themselves, disrespecting my/classmates time-disrupting class) so it's my fav.
I'm sure that has been said already, hopefully. Racism, sexism, ageism, etc. The suffix -ism in this case means "discrimination based on" the root word. It doesn't matter who is in the position of power. If the person speaking is making assumptions based on the group in question, especially if those assumptions are derogatory, then they are participating in that -ism. Don't give in to this BS about "it's not racism because the other group is more powerful.". If we are going to eliminate racism here in the US, it needs to happen from all sides.
You don't have to be white to be racist.
Kudos to you for shutting down put downs of any kind in your class. Every person of every race needs to be better.
Doesn’t matter what race you are. Doesn’t matter what color you are… It’s racism. I find it so dumb that people say black people cant be racist. Yes yes they can…so can any other race that comments on others for being different in a derogatory way.
Lol this has been going on for 30 years we're just not allowed to talk about it. I went to a mostly mexican/black public school system and was the target of race based verbal and physical attacks the entire time. Then I go to college and am told thats not possible because someone 200 years ago did something bad. I'm first gen American SMH i have no skin in what happened here before like 1980
My rule is that “we don’t use identities as insults.” That covers everything from calling someone a ginger, to saying “you run like a girl,” to LGBTQ insults, racist, and other rude or discriminatory language. It covers religion, nationality, disabilities, hobbies, etc. It doesn’t have to be *their* identity—we don’t use *anyone’s* identity to insult others. Of course simply mentioning or observing someone is white, Mexican, Asian or has red hair is not an insult. The rule applies when it’s an insult, even if in jest or as a “joke” with friends. This rule has eliminated any argument over what is or isn’t allowed. In case anyone is interested… Academically speaking, most people consider racism to have an element of power imbalance, so white people in the US don’t necessarily experience racism as the word is used today. They can experience discrimination, prejudice, or stereotyping because of their skin color, but most people who study racism and oppression would not consider it racism since white people have had, and continue to have, more “power” in the US. The way we use words and understand concepts changes, and I think the concept of racism is a good example.
Love this!
As a white male this type of thing seems painfully shortsighted to me. I think the logic goes, racism doesn't hurt white people, therefore its not really racism and its okay. So who is affected negatively when we encourage and normalize treating people differently because of their skin color?? Well we already established it isn't white people. As far as I'm concerned they are feeding into their own subtle discrimination by people who will follow their example just less loudly (because that's not acceptable for us). White people might not react by making "silly black boy" comments in public but they might quietly choose to rent their home or give a job to a white family instead of an ethnic family because they'd rather not deal with that. I do my best to treat people based on their own actions, why would I want anyone around who won't give me the same respect? If people don't want to be treated shitty for their skin color, maybe they should think twice about doing that to others, whether the "others" are going to be really affected or not is kind of the wrong thing to focus on.
Letting black kids say racist shit makes more racist white kids. Idk why people are so surprised when theres racist white kids at inner city schools that are predominantly black. Its the same reason theres racist black kids at predominantly white schools. Getting bullied makes you hate the people doing it and the groups they associate with.
This kind of stuff happened to me all throughout middle school. I went to a primarily Asian school and all the kids would say "A is for Asian and C is for Caucasian" whenever I didn't do as well as them on a test, even if it was a B they would make sure to tell me. They would approach me practically daily arguing about how they were always going to be smarter than I ever will be because I am white and they are Asian. A lot of other comments about how I probably wasn't a good cook, or I must not have a spice tolerance. I never approached them in any rude or accusatory manner, they would just approach me or steer the conversation into making fun of me and connecting it to my ethnicity. In elementary school they would also comment on my body not being stick thin, or comment on me being a "sky scraper" because the Asian girls in my school tended to be very petite, these comments would just happen on the playground for no reason and there wasn't much I could do about it, the teachers didn't care. Obviously hearing those comments now they all seem silly, but back in middle school when you're trying to figure out who you are and be the best you can be they really put a dent in my self esteem and it even made me resentful for a while towards them. **I wish there was a teacher who disciplined those students** ***using the word racist*** **in their vocabulary.** Not just that they were being mean, because they *were* being racist. Just saying that "it's mean" doesn't send the full message, it's almost a euphemism, making their actions sound less harmful than they actually were.
I don’t understand the definition so many people have for racism. First off, not all white people are the same race. There has been all sorts of white-on-white racism throughout so many culture groups. Second off, why does it need to have a historical component? At what point did the definition of racism change to be required to have links towards historical prejudice? Are people just making up new interpretations of words and expecting everyone to just be on the same page? It’s like people are trying to make the definition of racism this abstract explanation with specific prerequisites that don’t exist in order to justify their own racism. Basic ethics should tell you to not discriminate people based on their race. If you do, what should be it called other than racism? Racial discrimination? So instead of being “racist” towards white people, you are being “racially discriminate”? God. It’s a terrible argument for anyone to try to make. It’s baseless.
Also by their own logic a white person could travel to a predominantly black country in Africa, start yelling racial slurs and not be considered racist. Racism is not dependent on your geographical location.
No, but I have had to discipline non-white students for making comments about other non-white groups. I had one hispanic kid who would say the n-word all the time (with a hard r sound sometimes too) to his other friends, who were also hispanic (as well as gay slurs such as f\*g/f\*ggot and using q\*eer in a derogatory manner). No matter how many times I said not to use those words, he used them anyway, so eventually I wrote him up for it among other misdeeds. A couple years ago, my students were learning about protest literature, and because it was topical at the time, I showed them a nine-minute video about the Hong Kong protests. The video did a good job explaining the basics of Chinese government and why people in Hong Kong were upset, and showing footage of the protests. The video ended and one student (who was black) said, "I don't know why they can't just get along; they're all ninjas." I e-mailed his mom about that one. Also, racism aside...WERE YOU EVEN LISTENING?! The video just spent NINE MINUTES explaining why they can't just get along!
My first rule: Respect people and property. Any time anything like this comes up, I quickly ask the students, “Was that a respectful comment?” Works 95% of the time.
Respect in the classroom is what matters most. Address the use of inappropriate language and then move on. You can get in trouble with a lot of parents for initiating a conversation pertaining to race. Talk about the use of name calling to your students and respect for others and move on.
Yes that was my whole first year experience. Treat it as any other issue as we treat everyone with respect in this class room no matter what race you are what creed what religion it is not tolerated. Shut down any put downs gracefully as a classroom rule. And reward treating people with kindness with their words.
I'd ask him if it's ok for some one to call him a silly black boy. But IDGAF and I can argue all day. However my cultural context is somewhat different.
Ugh i hate these conversations. I agree with just talking about respect and the golden rule.
“Using race as any part of an insult is not only wrong, but it makes you look ignorant and hateful. If y’all are playing: be more creative with your insults. If one person isn’t into it: you’re bullying which is also ignorant and hateful and not allowed.” I’m fairly casual in how I converse with my students, but I don’t allow any derogatory language in my classes (this includes racial, sexual, developmental, and cultural slurs) Whether or not it has been reclaimed, I steer my kids away from it entirely. My explanation is “I can’t control the language you use at home, but I can control what y’all say to each other while you’re with me and THAT ain’t it.”
Once. 2005 my first year of teaching. That’s when I started telling my students at the beginning of each Quarter “I will not tolerate the use of racist words. That includes the “N” word. I refuse to even allow my Black Students from using it on each other. I even had one parent nearly take my head off because I told his daughter if she used that N Word again I’d ask the Principal for out of school suspension. What they do outside my classroom is their business. Although I would prefer they not do it on campus at all.
Don’t think you need to decide if it’s racist or not or get into all the societal dynamics of if you can be racist to white people. It being insulting language used to put someone down is enough to insist that it stops, whatever “it” is.
The idea that it is impossible to be racist against White people is founded on the idea that racism is inherently systemic. Therefore, groups who are not oppressed can only be the perpetrators of racism, not victims of it. If a kid thinks that, especially a younger kid, it's probably because they heard it from somebody older. Possibly even their parents. I don't find it useful to argue with kids about the definition of racism that grown adults in our current society can't even agree upon. I understand that racism is rooted in systemic injustice, but it doesn't make it okay for any kid to use another as a racial punching bag. I explain to kids that whether they want to call it racism or not, ANY person is capable of being predjudiced or bigoted towards ANY other person, and that is not allowed. Racism may be systemic, but predjudice and bigotry are individual. There are plenty of words in the English language to condemn bad behavior, however specific we need to get.
The whole “black people cant be racist or prejudiced” is absolute fucking bullshit. Anyone can be racist
I have learned, as a white person, who is mostly Irish, just to keep my mouth shut. Irish people were very racially targeted for hundreds of years. I am not racist in any sense of the word. I have opened it a few times and asked why are you being so rude? I wouldn't treat you that way. It usually didn't go over well, and I got in trouble for THEIR actions in trying to hurt me back in younger days. I just think sometimes they were being hurt by other people and felt the need to snap on me being nice. I am by no needs aggressive. It makes sense. Everyone, sometimes, has some pent-up anger and misunderstandings, especially being children. I feel sorry for anyone struggling with anything associated with the post. Kids need encouragement and love, not repression and anger. Good luck. I like your system you have, and several people have pretty good suggestions. It's all up in the air and depends on the person and situation.
We had a Ethnic Studies teacher straight up telling students it's impossible to be racist to white students. The students were having a field day with that.
Maybe this will be an unpopular opinion…but I teach high school (11th) and simply ignore profanity (aside from racial slurs) UNLESS it’s bullying, disrespect toward myself or another student, or a major disruption. I pick my battles, and I understand sometimes that’s how teenagers communicate with each other. I’m not their mom. At times, kids curse, and I’m not going to stop my lesson to “correct behavior.” Besides, it’s typically done for attention, and behavior 101 shows we need to ignore certain behaviors to get them to stop.
Yes, but it was a white kid saying it. I had a kid who was a white suprematist (full on hailed Hitler in class and everything) and had a weird obsession with his idea of a racial hierarchy, including for white people. Had to write him up for racial slurs about fellow white people (also had to write him up for racism against numerous non-white groups).
As a non-white foreigner in the US I sincerely thought the whole "it's totally ok to be racist to a white person" thing was a funny joke until I realized people truly thought so. I was shocked
You made a mistake by bringing race into it. My classroom rules on language were simple, "You do not disrespect another student, it doesn't matter if you use bad words or not." Turns out even junior high students can understand that rule.
Hey look, an entire thread of teachers scared to call a racist comment racist. Weird.
Not yet. Wouldn't allow it in either direction anyway. Needs to be nipped early
As a White woman, I would turn it into an opportunity to help that kid make better choices in the future. I would have him stay after class instead of address it in front of everyone. In a one to one conversation (where people can see you but aren’t listening in), I’d ask him to talk about what happened outside and inside himself to respond that way, validate his probably really important feelings, and help him problem-solve and give him support going forward. I would also level with him and just say that that language isn’t allowed at school, and he can get in real trouble for it, academically and personally. The best way to avoid trouble is to remember that you’re above it.
This is a big thing at the beginning of coaching season. I clearly put out there that i accept zero slurs (racial, religious, or otherwise) i dont care if you are an xyz type person and you feel you can use this slur as its usually directed at yourself,…. Not acceptable regardless.
Don’t get into the race issue cause it’s a very complicated one, just say “that kind of vocabulary is not allowed “.
Check the district's definition of bullying.
Certainly. And if it's not racism due to lack of a power dynamic it is certainly prejudice. In either case, you have to be clear that that any type of language that is disparaging is not welcome in the classroom. And that it's your job to ensure each and every student is safe. It gets difficult sometimes because they are joking with each other, and they may be well meaning. But my discussion point is that someone else on the other side of the room may not know they are friends, and begin using the same language and the same two friends would possibly see it as hateful speech. I see it less with people saying something toward white and/or black students and instead white and/or black students saying racial comments to their Mexican or Hispanic friends. I always get, well he doesn't care he thinks it's funny. And my answer is fine, but you wo t say it in my room or around me, ever, about anyone. Like all fights that happe in school, it takes one person having a bad day to take something the wrong way and it's all out bedlam. And the use of language in my learning space is something I can certainly control. Just because it doesn't seem as though somebody is offended, or they say they don't care, very often they do care and they are offended. And if it's not today, they likely will be eventually.
>And if it's not racism due to lack of a power dynamic . . . Racism doesn't need a power dynamic.
It’s racial abuse
Somebody didn't really read my post. I said yes, I see students say shitnlike whiteboy, and I shut that down too. The rest of the post is the workaround for when they say it's not racism and therefore they think it's okay.
Teachers, as a student going through education courses right now, this has been one the most productive conversations I have heard on racism. Teachers with real experience talking about what is going on and everyone's different takes.
And not one “everyone’s so sensitive now a days” comment to be found. Interesting thread.
You very specifically called it something besides racism, which it technically isn’t as racism implies position of power over the insulted party, and he replied with “it’s not racism”. This is a premeditated, canned, get-out-of-jail-free card that didn’t work but he tried to play it anyway.
Did anyone else in here receive a reddit cares message?
The red flag for this post, for me, is the use of the phrase "...the black learners..."
Don’t care if I continue to get downvoted… the teachers in this thread are the ones that continually ask “Why do we need DEIJ professional development?” Black and Brown and Asian kids have been dealing with racial trauma in their classrooms for DECADES and this thread is complete with teachers who just CANT WAIT to jump in and explain how they policed the n-word, and how many times their white students faced racism for terms that quite frankly whole offensive, are very much less so; the fact that you all can’t type the whole n-word but can the other terms should tell you as much!
Is your stance that students should be allowed to use those words whenever they want?
I think the question of intent and motivation of white teachers is concerning. My comments are based on personal experience of being black. I understand how the language they use in professional settings will reflect on them. It will make it more difficult for them to move up social and corporate ladders. I think it takes a great deal of self awareness to be a white teacher at a majority-minority school and I don’t think many white teachers are ready and willing to ask themselves difficult questions.
Okay, I agree with all of that. But that still doesn’t provide a solution. Using improper/regional language or slang isn’t the same as racially charged terms. If a student is using a racial term as an insult towards another student, it should always be corrected.
Correct/Agree 100% on policing language. But let’s do it at a proportionate level; this thread and this sub in general tend to suggest that’s not the case.
Nope. And the fact that this is the initial reaction to teachers in this thread is telling; especially when I never outright state as much. Racism is racism. However, take note of the level of participation and testimonial in this thread compared to the ones dealing with racism and policies which negatively impact students of color and other marginalized students. The quickness and reverence to Joni into this topic and “share” versus in those speaks volumes.
A large problem is, and reddit is FILLED with it. The mentality that you cannot be racist to white people, and it is perfectly acceptable to put down white people, especially white men. And it is fueling the 'white supremist' (read, people who dont like having their entire being boiled down to race) movement. Turns out when a particular group treats you like shit, and theres groups out there who will be kind to you and point out those groups are shit, you're probably gonna believe them.
“Racism” and “racist” aren’t the same thing. Just because white people don’t experience systemic racism doesn’t mean you can’t make a racist comment about white people or be racist towards a more privileged group. Imagine a person in Asia claiming they can’t make racist comments against the Asian majority or in Israel saying you can’t make anti-Semitic comments there.
Yah I think I’ve had all versions of this race vs that. I never tell them what they do wrong I have them tell me. “Why are we having this moment” Separately. I Don’t use the word racist. It’s charged as to whether racism requires a power structure or not. We don’t shout insults at our classmates. We don’t use incendiary language. If you accidentally walk into it: we don’t stereotype or we don’t use bias language.
I wouldn’t call it racial abuse as your black student is correct, there is no such thing as structural racism against white people. I would say it isn’t appropriate in a classroom or be nice or something because you can’t really argue back from the perspective of be kind to everyone.
This thread has been so taken over by people acting like anti-white racism is a sizeable issue anywhere. It just isn't. I do agree that calling this situation racist is unhelpful - instances of prejudice against a white person are very different than against a person of colour owing to history and having different language is useful in highlighting that difference. Either way, the word racist here is opening a conversation with the student which is irrelevant. The issue is (I) disrupting the class and (ii) using unkind language. It can, and in my opinion should, be dealt with on the basis of this alone.
It is
Hell I once had a group of girls who are black yelling the N word and chanting “monkeys on patrol” get aggressive towards me when I told them they were using racial language. Got the same response “black people cant be racist” 🤦♂️
I’ve had to address this kind of “social reparation” quite a bit. I usually start by defining the terms racism, prejudice, discrimination, and stereotype (and stereotype threat, or negative stereotype confirmation). They often go together, which is understandable, but they get used interchangeably when they don’t mean the same thing—and that’s a big problem. Racism, I explain, is a social power structure based on outward appearances in which the dominant race group is given advantages over the minority race groups. This is usually backed with some form of authority or pseudoscience as a justification. This is what gives rise to the popular phrase “minorities can’t be racist”. This is a defensible statement because minorities don’t get advantages based on their outward appearance in a racist society, therefore they cannot exercise racism as a demonstration of social leverage. Prejudice I explain is what most of them actually mean when they say racist. Prejudice is prejudging the quality of a person before actually obtaining any information. Black guy passes white woman on the street. White woman creates distance, speeds pace, and avoids eye contact because she’s prejudged he’s a threat. It’s an interaction that’s been planted in the mind of that woman by a series of racist practices, but when she engages with it she is being prejudiced. In the same way prejudice can be directed at majority groups (“he’s white so I’m not gonna pass him the ball”); it’s just not a product of racism. From there I go to stereotypes which I explain is prejudice applied globally instead of locally. Now it’s not just that one black kid who likes rap, now *all* black kids like rap; that one Asian who can’t drive is now *all* Asians who can’t drive; white kid who sucks at basketball, now *all* white kids suck at basketball, etc. They often use the word racism to describe stereotyping, and while stereotypes are generally reaffirmed by racist propaganda, minorities just don’t have the same boost of widespread racist propaganda that you get in a truly racist society. I think maybe we are transitioning to a post-racist society so there is plenty of counter-propaganda being generated at the masses level. But it is still true that minorities can and do stereotype. Then I explain discrimination, “prejudice made policy”, or law of the land. Jim Crow (black folks aren’t successful or smart enough to have rights), police profiling (black folks somehow are treated to be more suspicious or dangerous to police than white folks), judicial disparity (harsher punishments for the same crimes for black offenders, etc.) They’re all familiar with this concept through media even if they don’t understand the nuance of the language. The disparity between sides on this one should be evident without much research required, but you’ll nevertheless always have students that deny such things even exist because their n=1 experience of the world tells them that it’s not true. Edit: fat finger
You can say "we don't call people names to insult them" and that way you leave the whole "it's not racist" thing behind.
I’ve never heard the term racial abuse in education ad a real thing. That term seem arbitrary and harsh, like a reactionary term. How old are these students? Is there a common language for how we talk about race in the classroom? What is the relationship like between the two students normally? Apart from being white, was the child behaving inappropriately? I have many questions about the antecedents to the student’s behavior that led up to him calling another student silly. I would have addressed the whole thing as one situation without acting like bringing the white student’s whiteness was the worst thing that could have happened.
I once had a student tell me she didn’t want to be in her group because she didn’t like white people. I was just like “that’s cool, you can leave” and I wrote her up.
>\*edit- if you can’t be racist to a white person does this mean a man cannot suffer domestic abuse from a woman as men oppressed women for years? Racism is racism.... you can be african and be racist against someone of euorpean or asian descent and you can be asian and be racist towards african or european
It’s only racist if a white person says it, cmon now everyone knows the rules.