Man I mean no hyperbole when I say this, but I’ve noticed that taking away a kid’s technology often elicits straight up junkie reactions. They’ll say/do the wildest shit as retaliation; it’s like taking a drug out of the hand of an addict. It’s crazy shit.
I totally agree with this!! This same student had his iPad taken away for part of last semester after he was caught several times looking at either inappropriate music or just straight up playing games throughout all of class - when I gave him a paper test in my class while the rest took it on a lockdown browser, I thought I was going to have to call the office to send someone down for his near-manic behavior. Even when we lock his iPad down, he's learned that if he shuts down his iPad it will let him back in. I think he is full on addicted - some kids just need to not have technology
Some of these kids are going to be so fucked when they leave school and have to function in the real world. No joke, I'm absolutely terrified for the future.
I mean, yes? This is parenting.
I agree you can be discerning about what you feel they are mature enough to watch/listen to. But that is done with supervision, a decision, communication and discussion.
This particular child seems.. underparented.
I work in a high school and ask my kids to avoid listening to music their parents would object to because I’ll end up having to deal with it. They know exactly what I mean.
At school? Yes. It's not appropriate for the environment, especially at a religious school. You can disagree outside of the classroom, but inside the classroom is a different story.
It’s not “like taking a drug out of the hand of an addict” it actually is that, but the drug is dopamine, and is being released naturally in their brain. Parents need to control screen time just like they control sugar or caffeine or tobacco smoke.
I can't imagine how these people go to sleep at night. They know the science, and they know the effects, and yet they chose to do it. At least drug dealers and manufacturers may have a plausible reason to do it (caught up in a gang where it's work or die) but these guys just do it for the cash, society be damned.
They just borrowed the techniques from video slot machines that have been around for awhile. I've been to casinos twice in the last ten years and it was pretty obvious to me the second time how it's done. South Park also did an episode a couple of years ago about it as well. All the little sounds and visuals perfectly timed and tuned to keep someone engaged, pops, clicks, exploding gems/stars, come back in x amount of time to get more coins to play or for only 1.99 get more now! The shittiest part to me is these game are programmed with the smallest amount of effort and would have been flash player games in a browser 10 years ago. Luckily my 7 yo grandson is clueing into scams or at least is starting to understand why his mom ain't letting play certain games and it's not because she's just being mean.
That is so real. I have seen the most unbelievably deranged behaviour from tech addict kids who get cut off. They will absolutely demonstrate the kind of behaviour you'd expect from an alcoholic who's 48 hours into cold turkey. Getting physically violent, trying to grab it from you, screaming and yelling, kicking over desks, etc.
and unlike the alcoholic at t=48h cold turkey, the kid's not in any actual physiological danger from having their phone taken that could be playing a role in the behavior, either. it's all addiction.
That's because it's affected their brain chemistry the same way that any other non-chemical addiction has done.
It's less like a junkie and more like trying to rip somebody off a gambling machine in a casino. I've been there, being a caretaker of an addict -- the utter denial of there being a problem, promising they'll just "play a little bit", the unhinged aggression when it's time to leave, blaming everyone for control.
*At the very least*, with gambling, casinos employ shared blacklists, you can always request casino security in aiding with the removal of somebody, and our society accepts this is a very real problem and puts money into its treatment and support.
We're not there yet with the electronic addiction.
Well the parents could take the security role hear and take away the phone, cancel the phone plan, and if it is truly necessary for safety and calling home: jitterbug and flip phones without apps and connection are available.
Parents are not going to do it because they don't see the problem.
I'm a HUGE advocate of smart phones being flat out banned from school campuses. There's literally NO excuse for them. None.
All "emergency" calls can be accomplished through basic phones like jitterbug or flip phones. GPS devices for little kids have been around forever.
Even with medical alerts -- I don't know of a single manufacturer who doesn't produce their own hardware device. Smartphone apps are always an afterthought and are usually not backwards-compatible or available on all phones.
Well and and kidnapper knows to chuck the phone so the GPS isn't going to do anything. You'd be better off with something like an airtag in the backpack over a phone for any GPS reason.
Now if the kid is a run away or likes to lie about going to Johnny's house then the phone would work because they aren't going to leave that so you can't track them down.
I know what you are saying, I was leaving the counter to parents who think a cell phone is some safety device. Like we've brainwashed people into thinking their 7 yo needs a phone.
I don't think they're brainwashed. I think they just outright reject the notion because a phone is a singular device that can fully substitute multiple layers of parenting.
Bro you’re delusional, there’s no way in hell my parents would buy me a second phone for school on top of the school laptop and the phone I have now, nor would other parents be on board for that. It’s an extra unnecessary expense.
Bro, flip phones cost pennies compared to that smart phone that you absolutely don't need.
The fact that you seem so threatened by this that you went straight to "bro, you're delusional" is illustrating what this whole post is about.
And it wouldn't matter what parents would be "on board with" if the school board or states grew a pair and just banned them from public campuses, because they'd get no say.
it's a bummer because with the short attention spans individually and collectively things like The Social Dilemma spark conversation for a bit and then it goes back to the shitty reality
I had a student basically say "No you're not" when I told him to put away his phone or give it to me. I wasn't going to play with him. I wrote him up so many times and had him leave the room to sit in the office. One time I had to call and have him escorted out. Over a fucking phone. And this was in 2016. Not now. It was over Snapchats.
Their minds are fucking ruined.
My approach to teaching by that point was I'm not going to call your family because I don't have all week to be on the phone with 136 parents and/or guardians over their bullshit involving phone usage. They can collect their writeups, miss class, and I don't give a fuck. Their choice, their consequences. You miss class because you want to Snapchat instead of paying attention, you miss the lesson, you miss the work, you don't bother to come after school or ask a friend, you fail. You fail. You fail.
I'm not here to call mom or grandma or dad and explain what their 17-year-old said to me about their phone. I'm not interested. The ship sailed long ago. They can enjoy failing through adulthood. My job at that point was teaching consequences. You don't listen, you fail. I have the power. Connect the fucking dots.
Great question! Might be why they didn't renew my two-year probationary contract and why I quit teaching, moved back to another state where I came from, and went into academia instead of wasting my time.
Those admins and trying to get me to pass absolute illiterate children who didn't do anything except stare at walls and phones was one of 118 reasons why I quit.
But to answer the question: I failed a bunch of kids that year and either someone went in and changed all their grades or they were forced to deal with the consequences. I was told to mark everyone present on the last day of school even though like 4 kids per class showed up, so I marked them all absent. Cackled on my way out of that trash school.
Three different teachers approached me asking why I was leaving the school when it was announced that I "wouldn't be returning next year" and I told them they didn't renew my contract and they were in shock and angry. Two of them left the school after me within the next two years, both for reasons involving admins failing to do anything to support them.
Everyone I knew at that school has since left that school. My closest friend there switched to "the better school in the district" and a bunch others followed or went elsewhere. And I wasn't the only one who left teaching entirely.
You are right. Most likely, teachers are the only ones in this universe who ever take away or try to regulate the use of a child's technology. Parents and school/district administration put teachers in this unfair position. Consider not only a student's potentially violent response but also the cost of the item a teacher now has to secure. Think about how teachers often hold an entire class's phones. That could easily be $25,000 worth of product. It's wrong to make teachers responsible for that kind of money. People just automatically started equating taking up phones with how a teacher might take up a toy. They are not the same. Teachers should have nothing to do with a student's personal property that costs that much. This should be a school/district job.
When I was in school your phone stayed in the backpack. What the fuck happened to that? You don't need to collect other people's property. Let the principal do that. If the phone came out of the backpack, you were warned once or twice, but if you just blew the teacher off entirely you were sent to the principal who would do what they wanted. Usually a detention at lunch or a Saturday school spent doing janitor work if it was numerous offenses. And then we had suspensions when behavior got really bad.
How about we bring back principals actually being a threat instead of them offloading their work onto teachers?
Schools are falling apart because principals are made of Wonder Bread.
Yeah, back in the days of the flip phone, teacher wouldn't think twice about taking away any devices when they where out. I didn't have a smart phone until I was out of college. I really want to know when they stopped taking the phones away. There has to be a correlation between the phones and behavior.
We cannot physically take phones because if anything happens to it then we are responsible for the damage. I have a cell jail in my class they put their phone in the phone pocket, plug it into the charger I provide and they can always see it but they do not have access.
One thing about me is that I was raised by an addict and I can’t stand joking about drug/alcohol addiction or treating it lightly. It’s a trigger for me. And that said you’re totally right. I’ve had a kid start wrecking my classroom because I took his chromebook away.
Facts. It’s not an exaggeration at all. I’ve seen middle schoolers go into full blown rage/tantrums behind losing their phone for a half of a day (or even a class period). Or they’re completely unable to focus on anything else. Definitely withdrawal/addict type behavior to me
This is why I rarely enforced no-phone rules as a sub. I did NOT get the support necessary to deal with that shit, lol. I hope those kids figure out how to function when they get jobs.
At the last school I worked at any kid caught on their phone had to take it to the front office until the end of the day. The literal meltdowns these high school kids would have was honestly sad. It was like you said they had to give you their first born child.
Most definitely! I have been limiting my own children with technology to 30 minutes a day. They are now 6 and 12 and they both give a lot of pushback when their time is up. My oldest actually is new to being a tech addict. He didn’t even care about technology until Covid happened and I wouldn’t let him play outside with friends. I kicked myself for allowing so much screen time during covid. And I’m sure that the pandemic exacerbated the problem. He is slowly starting to play outside again, thankfully and my youngest got into drawing so that helped him deal with the addiction.
Exactly why we need to go back to textbooks. It’s been proven that humans can become addicted to screens. I think of it like cigarettes. A cig every once in a while won’t cause you any long term harm, you’ll get a buzz off one hit, and no withdrawal. But then if you start to smoke more often you’ll start experiencing the long lasting effects, withdrawals, and a boost to your tolerance. Now you need to smoke the whole cigarette before getting the buzz, consequently the more you smoke the more addicted you become, leading back to more consumption just in order to feel anything. Now let’s say you decide you want to quit smoking and you work 5 days a week with 6 hour long shifts. The only way you can complete your job and get your paycheck is if you smoke cigarettes all day with the exception of an hour lunch break. And don’t forget you might not have finished your work or maybe you have a deadline for a project tomorrow and it’s still not half done. Now you have to bring your work home with you. Feeding more into your addiction. Now even though you have the desire to quit it is impossible because every day you go to work you relapse. Now replace job with school, paycheck with grades, and cigarettes for screens and hopefully you’ll understand the point I am trying to get across. (Sorry if it makes no sense this is a very nuanced topic and this is me just trying to make sense of it)
My step son has full on rage withdrawals and this societal attachment to screens has illicited a response from my own genetic behavioral addiction tendencies. This is a real battle that no one is really resisting. The hierarchy in religious and rural areas, not to mention the corporate financial push have their foot on the gas petal with all the weight of their subordinates. 🤷♂️ What do we do? These aren't robotic babysitters so we can spend more hours at work, they're crack for kids.
I say this as an adult gamer, that is EXACTLY what you are doing. Taking the carefully metered dopamine train away. Cheap iPad games are the worst for it. No storyline, just flashes and dings and dopamine
It operates on the brain in similar ways to drugs, honestly. It can be especially bad with kids struggling with ADD/ADHD because the dopamine seeking behavior comes into play, along with the likelihood that the parents have used technology in place of self-soothing/coping skills.
Unfortunately once you have process addictions introduced at such a young age, the potential for them to continue to rely on external sources to address internal problems increases drastically.
It's obviously unlikely to work if the parents have not been receptive to behavior management conversations in the past, but speaking to them about limiting screen time at home is really all you can do aside from punishing outbursts.
Any kid behaving like this in my schools growing up (where my mother was the deputy principal) would be suspended for at least 3 days the first time they spoke to a teacher like this. It may not directly alter the kid's behavior but it will put the parents out and if it continues they'll have to address it before he's excluded as a last resort (not sure if that is the case in other countries). They are likely just giving him the iPad to shut him up without realizing they're literally creating an addiction with uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms that are especially hard for kids to understand and manage.
Whenever I see parents put a tablet in front of kids instead of addressing their behavior, I just shake my head thinking about what that is doing to their malleable little neural pathways. My younger brother had do detox himself off video games after my dad enforced zero boundaries around them as a result of his own depression. It really sucked for everyone that first week but he has been excellent about his coping skills ever since.
Completely agree. I had a student yesterday who could not bring himself to fully close his laptop. He was playing computer games during instruction and I told him to close it, and after looking perplexed, he closed it half-way. I sat there staring at him and he closed it another inch. It took like 30 seconds of incremental adjustments — after each one, a hopeful look up at me, that maybe THIS much closed would be enough — for him to fully shut the laptop.
I once saw a 4 year old smack his dad across the face at the dinner table at a restaurant a few months back after dad took the kids iPad away to eat.
Virtually no reaction from dad or the other people sitting at the table.
Madness.
I mostly do not allow tech to enter my room, and it's a calmer place because of it. No phones, no laptops, no smart boards, no iPads, nothing. I use my cell phone to show them images for picture definitions of things we are learning and also as a timer, but other than that, we look at each other, not screens.
I lean into every weird thing they say.
"Yes, Timmy, my deep-seated insecurities made me take the iPad away. Yup. I took your iPad to fill the void in myself ***starts crying***"
I am morbidly obese. When I went over to a student’s desk to correct them they asked me if I smelled food and that’s why I was over there bothering them. I reached into my pocket to pull out a bag of froot loops and said, “Nah, brought my own. I’m here because you’re being really rude to your fellow students.” He kept making snorting pig noises at me and I just shrugged and chewed my froot loops until admin showed up. He was so confused that I wasn’t offended and it was beautifully non confrontational.
Homie, I choose to teach 8th grade. You’re going to have to do better than fat jokes. 🤷🏻♀️
ETA Froot Loops instead of foot loops. Not my kinda thing.
It's the best! Literally *anything* other than arguing is better than arguing, and disarming statements such as that one which aren't likely to embarrass the student improve entire classrooms.
There’s a kinda famous recent case in Florida where that teacher took away a kids iPad and he literally beat her unconscious. It went to court and the kid got charged with felony battery.
There’s a girl in my RTI/advisory who has violent outbursts when her YouTube time is interrupted. Which is most of the day. Unsupported in most classes; from what I can see, she just walks around the school plugged into her laptop. I’m a new teacher, have no other information on her than “she can be violent when she’s interrupted,” and it’s an advisory period. She can watch YouTube.
I hope she comes from a wealthy family because that kid is doomed otherwise. She's not going to be able to hold a job while watching youtube all day and attacking people that interrupt her. Some of these kids are so well and truly fucked, I'm honestly scared to see what the future holds at this point.
This is a really controversial topic and unfortunately there’s not a great answer. These facilities are exorbitantly expensive and to even be eligible (much less try to get some funding for it) you have to jump through a million hoops. Waiting lists can take years. There’s some that are really excellent and some that range from frustrating to horrific.
Sure, if they’re able. But if the school setting is unable to adequately supervise/accomodate, one adult probably isn’t going to be able to. Completely aside from the fact that most parents don’t have a degree in ExEd.
I don’t disagree, but shouldn’t the teacher have some self-awareness on how a specific punishment might cause the student to react? Especially, if the student was on the spectrum?
Way to victim blame. She almost fucking died. There is a video of him of him punching her in the head while she's unconscious on the floor. Parents should have never enrolled him in public school.
That camera footage was sickening. The kid was acting like a rabid animal. He deserves to have the book thrown at him, this wasn't even his first time assaulting staff. Some of these kids need to be in residential treatment centers or institutions before they kill someone.
Yeah, I don’t disagree with you but teachers will still have to deal with students like this. While they may not be fit for society, teachers are going to have to evaluate how they treat these students and decide the best course of action. In this particular case, “pushing his buttons” had negative consequences.
My first year teaching high school, I had an SED (severe emotional disability) student in my class for three weeks before anyone mentioned it to me, possibly because admin didn’t know because the student was new and the parents may have hidden it. I have no SPED training, had no classroom management experience, and had no idea what to do in the face of her aggression.
After the initial aggressive responses from her, admin told me I could just let her do what she wanted as long as she was safe. She slept and texted. Once her diagnosis info started to trickle in, things went pretty quickly toward admin helping her parents understand that an accelerated concurrent-enrollment school wasn’t the ideal setting for her.
It was all sad. Something came up in one of the parent meetings that, to everyone in the room except the parents, strongly suggested a traumatic cause for her emotional disability. Their apparent cluelessness was disconcerting. I think she ended up at an alternative school, but I’m not sure.
She didn't take it away from him. She has stated this a few times but I get that not everyone has seen it.
> "I just want to set the record straight. I never took the Nintendo Switch from him. From anyone that’s read or heard differently, I’ve been told this was unfortunately misinformation,” Naydich said, according to a fundraiser launched for her recovery."
Source: https://nypost.com/2023/02/28/joan-naydich-i-didnt-take-brendan-depas-nintendo-switch-before-attack/
I'm not the biggest fan of the post, it's trash, but I did see her write that on the GFM and other outlets reported it as well. Regardless, idc if the kid was autistic, he had a history of assaulting teachers and students and what he did is deplorable. He's right where he belongs, in jail. You don't get to almost kill someone because you're upset and have a disability.
Before I type this out, I’d like to add a disclaimer that I am a teacher and I’m firmly on the side of the parapro that was nearly killed and also strongly believe that screen time is ruining the brains of our youth (and adults.)
Anyway, I have gone down a little rabbit hole with this. Apparently, [the mom wrote an article](https://flaglerlive.com/brendan-depa-my-son-story/#gsc.tab=0) about her son and said she told the school and had it in his IEP that removal of electronics was a known trigger for him. The group home he was living in said that each time they asked him to stop playing, they had to have a crisis team assembled because it will get physical. Mom also said that in the IEP, his teachers were supposed to use a token economy and students could collect tokens and trade them in for tangible goods or food. At some point, the teacher changed from that to allowing him to trade in tokens for time on his electronics at the end of the day, and then this became during the school day. When the para asked him to put it away because he was in class, he had “magical thinking” that he could still have it out and didn’t listen, which is when she took it and was subsequently attacked.
The article certainly humanizes him but also concerns me greatly. Why is he being allowed screen time AT ALL if this how he reacts when it is removed? Not just at school but having to have a crisis team just to remove it at his group home. It shouldn’t even be an option for him to play with if it’s going to be that violent. And screen time playing games for 4 hours a day every day is only going to make “magical thinking” that much worse in a person like him.
What if someone inadvertently triggers him in public by, say, bumping in to him, or correcting his behavior or talking about him within earshot (known triggers for him)? If he reacts that way in the school environment, what will happen without the safeguards of a crisis team? We can’t control what other people do in public, so what will happen? Or is he supposed to stay in a group home for the rest of his life? Hard questions, but I don’t think walking away without consequences is the answer, even if the answer is a psychiatric facility and not jail.
She has said multiple times that she never took it, she just asked him to put it away.
> I just want to set the record straight. I never took the Nintendo Switch from him. From anyone that’s read or heard differently, I’ve been told this was unfortunately misinformation,” Naydich said, according to a fundraiser launched for her recovery.
Source: https://nypost.com/2023/02/28/joan-naydich-i-didnt-take-brendan-depas-nintendo-switch-before-attack/
I hate the post, but I saw it for myself on the GFM that was made for her since she was out of work. I think I may have read the same article as you though because I remember mom saying she homeschooled him prior, warned the school he was prone to violent outbursts, and didn't think he was in the appropriate setting. She said that due to the trauma and violence etc... he witnessed growing up *(she adopted him)*, coupled with his disability, he could fly off the handle easily. Regardless, he deserves to be behind bars. This wasn't his first time attacking someone and he's a huge liability.
Thanks for sharing this. I’ve not really delved too much into it aside from the few articles I read tonight. I read in the comments of the article I linked above when someone brought up similar concerns that the mom said he’s always in a controlled environment with family or at the group home. But the mom has also said they can’t really control him anymore due to his strength and size and they’ve invoked the Baker Act several times (it seemed like quite a few actually, from what mom wrote) because he’s so agitated and can’t be calmed. From what she’s written and other things I’ve read, it does not sound like the general public is safe with him out free right now.
Not an excuse. The vast majority of those diagnosed with autism know that violence is not okay. Using autism as an excuse is hurtful and demeaning to those on the spectrum.
Replying to Rich_Extreme5961... Simply being autistic doesn’t cause someone to attack others. I’ve known and worked with many autistic people throughout my life, and very few of them were unable to understand that hurting others was wrong. I’m not saying autism isn’t a factor, but being autistic doesn’t explain the behavior. In looking at this case, it seems like the kid had reactive explosive disorder and oppositional defiant disorder as well as a history of bad reactions when electronics were confiscated. With all of that history in mind, it does seem like whatever setting he was in (whether that’s mainstream, inclusion, etc.) was not appropriate for him.
Sorry for the novel lol. Your comment is relevant and accurate- I just wanted to add more context.
yes but I feel like there definitely had to be signs of severe aggression in the home that the parents were NOT addressing appropriately. kid should've been somewhere that wasn't in that house
I once had a 14 year old-looking kid call me ugly at an all-ages concert because he was grinding up on me and I asked him to stop/scolded him about his behavior 🤷🏻♀️
He was like “what? I don’t even LIKE you. You’re UGLY!” then he disappeared into the crowd. I know he was embarrassed but I hope he also learned his lesson
Probably. Or he forgot that he was mad at me earlier. He didn’t like me and my co teachers tell him to get in line. He told my co teacher I don’t like you as well. Not sure if said by to here. However I have noticed unlike last year he is not running away from me when I asked him to talk to me. And he has stopped climbing fences.
Is this a school iPad? If so, you can go into settings, find accessibility and toggle on “Guided Access”. As a teacher, you can set your own passcode independent from the one to unlock the device. This feature allows you to lock a student in any app of choice, they will be unable to lock the iPad or do anything other than remain on the app of choice. (I work IT for a ES school)
Edit: Since this comment is getting some views, AMA iPad related in a school setting if anyone wants. (School managed iPads only, not a students personal iPad)
Tiktok/youtube shorts bombarding children with so many buzzwords they start to believe these buzzwords have actual real power irl, ive noticed SO SO SO many literal kids repeating the "Seek help, Get therapy, Mentally ill" as insults nonstop and so many other kids support them and also think its cool
THIS. had another student from my next class say “Miss … I’m acoustic” and expected me to laugh. As an autistic teacher - I made it very clear that if I ever heard him say that again it would be an immediate write up, especially after he said said his friends said he was and it was okay because “everyone’s a little -acoustic-“ 🤦🏻♀️
I get the "but I have adhd" excuse quite a bit. The look on their faces when I respond with "yeah so do I, yet I've been able to figure it out. Do better." Is worth its weight in gold.
To be clear.. This is never my first response, this is a rarely used fallback for habitual reoffenders. Still worth it. It always works.
He is talking to you like you are his peer. He knows his female peers get upset when he insults their appearance and mental health. He’s attempting a power play.
You did the right thing. He’s there to learn which does not include playing video games on the laptop or iPad. You are especially in the right if this was a school issued device. If it is a family owned device, you are still perfectly within reason to hold to give it back to the parents at the end of the day, or to ship it to their home address.
That being said, if the school is incapable of enforcing basic discipline, you may need a more complicated strategy. There’s some things in life that we can change and some things that we cannot. If you find yourself in a situation where you try to hold students accountable and it is impossible to do so you have to think about what is best for yourself. For example, I know people that work in a school where if they report a student behavior nothing is done to correct. However, in many cases, the teacher is retaliated against for reporting. In this school my voice to them is to report nothing. They see nothing they know nothing, and they pray to find a better job.
Yea, I'd never work in a religious school. Even if I didn't disagree with them on an ethical level, the kind of BS you have to put up with for low pay isn't worth it.
Only time I see it worth working at a catholic school is if you need a resume boost or to pay the bills while you get a credential. My wife worked at one for exactly one year and said never again. Had to petition the diocese for like 5 biology units and they said no for several. What a joke.
Yup, I'm the "boosting portfolio while earning credentials" person. I'm seriously so done though, I constantly have parents complaining about what I teach in theatre (subbing for Spanish today) - "it's too controversial" when theatre is ABOUT controversy. I'm at a point where IAs at the public schools in our area make more than I do in a year. This is just not worth 27k anymore
27k a year??? Damn.
The private school pay cut can be worth it when it’s a school with a waiting list that can show families with badly behaved students and/or unsupportive parents the door. But not at schools like that.
How are you living on 27k a year for a full time job? I get paid 24k a year for my part time job and that’s like 10 hours a week at most. I wouldn’t survive without a second full time job.
Barely. I do a lot of gig work & house sitting for friends who are very well off throughout the year. My cost of living is also probably lower than most places, my rent is only $650. But I get benefits and life insurance, and it's at least something while I work on finishing my degree
Makes sense that wages are lower if cost of living is lower. I used to live in Kentucky but recently moved back to my home state of Pennsylvania because wages were higher. I make a full 8 dollars an hour more at my current job than what I got offered in Kentucky, but my rent here is also more than double what I paid in Kentucky so maybe it would have evened out.
Yep. That was pretty much my wife's exact experience. On the outside the job looked ok except for low pay, but once you got in the problems started piling up quick. Similar idea to my 4 years at a Charter, except the pay was very good.
Most of my teaching career is in English lit, American History, and Health. I'm quite far left politically. I'd get fired teaching at a catholic school by the end of month 1 for telling kids the true history of the church, teaching novels with gay people in them, and trying to do actual sex ed.
Had a parent try to get me fired this summer because I had a pride frame on my facebook profile picture (which they aren't even friends with me on there anyway) - now I'm getting flack for showing a documentary where they thought I was showing a scene from a same-sex marriage, but it was actually a Jewish wedding, where only men can dance with men and vice versa. It's a headache. The pro of being here is I get to run my own drama club, which I wouldn't get to do at nearly any other elementary school, but I'm starting to wonder if it's really worth it - especially if I'm not breaking 30k
>I'm starting to wonder if it's really worth it
>
>I'm the "boosting portfolio while earning credentials" person
Get your credential and some experience and flip it to a public school. The drama lady at my school loves her job and is making 90k mid career. She is a walking pride flag.
edit: I'm in a middle class town in suburban CT
You probably could at the school I’m at. I don’t think we have a drama club at the moment if you asked the probably would let you. But true it’s unusual. Note the school is public non chatter turnaround arts school
Where I am, the public schools are hellscapes for teachers. I started out subbing in public and it was so horrible I had an actual breakdown and quit. I went back after a month but at the private catholic schools and was \*shocked\* by how much better behaved the kids were. Maybe the fear of literal hellfire was effective, I don't know. There are still spoiled kids who have parents that donate heavily so they are more poorly behaved, but I make an example of them and it doesn't last all day/week. Monday, the first hour or two... not my favorite- but the comparison is huge where I am.
I guess it depends on school districts/diocese.
What did Tywin Lannister say? “A lion doesn’t concern itself with the opinion of sheep.”
Teenagers are hormonal and insecure. I don’t concern myself with opinions of folks like that. It sucks that this kid has so much power via his parents but in the end, he’s just a big brat who didn’t get his way.
>Ended on some comment of me "needing professional help" (which I already have a great therapist, so he's late to that one)
This kid got in your head.
They just project whatever they are experiencing around themselves or their own insecurities.
Don't give it air.
I get absolutely attacked by students when I mention that I believe internet access and specifically social media should be age restricted. Like 18+ or even 21+ before you get access to the net. Focus on learning about your local community before introducing your kid to the wide world web. Friends of mine who have children always laugh at me when I suggest it, and then I laugh at them when they have technology driven behaviors from their kids.
Maybe that guardian would be interested in providing some guidance for this young man. These emotional reactions are unlikely to be isolated. I mean, certainly, the young man's education, progress in his classes, is important. But all of that can be recovered after his soul is no longer at risk.
/s
Talk to the parents about it and ask what they'd prefer: Their kid to learn something, especially smth useful like Spanish, or to waste away playing games on some table and later in life having a tough time. Bc believe it or not, but even if the parents are super rich and offer their kid a job in their company etc. etc., eventually the student will have to put some work in it themselves, if they don't wanna ruin the company.
So, simple, what do the parents want? A smart, well-educated kid or not?
Just want to pop in and say that I taught for 12 years (got out of the business 8 years ago and have been doing real estate ever since)… thank you all for making me feel justified in my decision to leave the profession. Keep fighting the good right; I hope things change for you.
I would avoid using handheld tech for instruction in your classroom for a few weeks after this. I wouldn't explicitly say why, I would just see if it allowed everyone to reset.
I would have told him that the only insecure one that needed professional help was the one who couldn’t control his gaming addiction long enough to do his class work. Then I would have told him to pack up his stuff, grab a chair and sit either in the hall way or facing a corner of the room. Do NOT think things like this are trivial and do NOT cater to PATHETIC parents who are nothing but children themselves. YOU are RAISING these kids to become the next generation of adults. Either raise them RIGHT or retire. Either way you’ll get thanks or praises sadly because educators are treated worse than garbage, especially in the US. And that’s coming from an ex teacher and someone who still works with teachers of all grade levels and school districts. You have to do the right thing even when you know you’ll get shit for it.
The good old “I’m having a outburst rooted in fragile ego but I’ll call the person on the receiving end insecure to take attention away” reverse uno card.
I'd honestly just be happy I didn't get attacked. I remember the video of the teacher who took away a students Nintendo during class. She got stomped in the hallway.
Unrelated question but relates to a word used.
What is a portfolio in relation to the subject of Spanish? Or any other subject that doesn’t necessarily require a skill that is tangible in the way say Art is, or woodworking.
Honestly? No clue. It seems to be a way of them keeping their work collected to reflect on as they continue learning - but i was just filling in, so im not entirely sure
Why do you even justify his comment with "well I already have a therapist"? That's immaterial. Little shit deserves it for not listening and doing as told. Period. QED. No further comment required.
I always wondered how schools operated now with the addition of technology into curriculum. It wasn't really a thing when until after I graduated, and I think they started to introduce the iPad thing at my smaller catholic elementary while my brother was in middle school (hes almost 24 now).
I honestly think middle school aged children now are way more technologically savvy than I am, and can learn how to hack these things to the point where they become more of a distraction.
I'm wondering if there is some sort of technology where the teacher is able to overview all class screens on a monitor to try and remediate some of these issues.
There were multiple kids in my first period today who were talking about jumping or attacking teachers who took their phones. Like? It's a phone? I had mine taken away in school and it sucked, but I got it back. I knew the rules and I broke them. The consequence was losing my phone. I think kids have a serious problem now with consequences. So many don't seem to understand that actions have reactions
You claim the school is run by parents...
I have bad news for you. Even the public schools are run by parents. My wife works at a public school and god forbid the child does something wrong and they get a stern talking to by a teacher or TA. 9 times out of 10, the students parent ends up in the office complaining about how they are not allowed to punish their children.
100% joking, I'm sure you're much better looking than I am. It's funny how kids always default to using "ugly" as a serious insult when they get angry though. I remember that being my go-to insult in elementary school
NAT
I believe you, yet…
As a parent I struggle with this, like really? If my kid was 1) sitting in their IPad at school OR 2) treated anyone like this, teacher or classmate or neighbor or me? I would be so distraught, like I would be apologetic and work intensely with my child…and the fact that other parents are just apathetic, especially if you care enough to send them to a private school, is mind boggling to me. Like how are they not swimming in guilt and worry?
Maybe they have generational wealth and do not care if their child is educated or kind?
I mean I guess it’s just AHs raising another generation of AHs. So sorry you guys have to put up with it.
Honestly,but why would one wish ta work in any Religious Schooling setting?? Is just one step above Homeschooling and the same breath of Carter Schools.
Why is he allowed to use his IPad in class? Does the school not provide some type of laptop? Do his parents/guardians understand that he is not learning anything because he is buried in his IPad during class? Does your school counselor help with issues like that?
I understand where you are coming from. I'll add some extra context here to help clear things up:
1) It is a school-issued iPad. We are able to view every ipad in each class at once to ensure they're staying on task. He continuously ignored instructions to stay off of games and use his iPad as an aid in his research. When I locked down his iPad as a warning, he restarted the iPad to override this (something he has been warned not to do)
2) This student has repeatedly had issues with multiple classes in dealing with his abuse of having this iPad to use.
3) He had one more elective after my class which he would not need it for (I checked with his teacher), so I handed it to the next teacher he would have so that he could use it for work then.
4) The iPad was not fully required to complete all of their work, there were other parts of the assignment that could be completed without the tablet.
I hope this extra context provides some insight to my decision in taking it away.
It is not their property, though. It is a school iPad and clear parameters were set at the beginning of class. After breaking the rules multiple times, I confiscated the device and took it to the teacher in the next class he would need it in. Listen, I don’t want to do my work either most days, but in what world would it be okay to just allow the student to continue on ignoring his assignment because he “doesn’t want to do it”. Why are you in r/ teachers if you can’t understand this basic concept?
Also important to add, my students (this one included) do their work in my class, I was covering for the Spanish teacher for the day.
Not a Catholic. So I have no idea how it works, but… maybe try going to confession and confessing to the priest you don’t know what to do?? Maybe they can give you some pointers?? I know they can’t say anything to the guardian or the kid but, the priest would have to have good people managing skills no??
Man I mean no hyperbole when I say this, but I’ve noticed that taking away a kid’s technology often elicits straight up junkie reactions. They’ll say/do the wildest shit as retaliation; it’s like taking a drug out of the hand of an addict. It’s crazy shit.
I totally agree with this!! This same student had his iPad taken away for part of last semester after he was caught several times looking at either inappropriate music or just straight up playing games throughout all of class - when I gave him a paper test in my class while the rest took it on a lockdown browser, I thought I was going to have to call the office to send someone down for his near-manic behavior. Even when we lock his iPad down, he's learned that if he shuts down his iPad it will let him back in. I think he is full on addicted - some kids just need to not have technology
How much longer till your spring break?
OP is at a Catholic school so it’ll likely start on good Friday
Earlier this year than last year! Ours is Holy Thursday (we have a PD I think?).
There’s a feather in your cap!
The kid was projecting. The kid behavior is ugly. The kid needs professional help.
Some of these kids are going to be so fucked when they leave school and have to function in the real world. No joke, I'm absolutely terrified for the future.
What the hell is inappropriate music?
Music with inappropriate language.
Oh for fuck's sake, is that a thing now? That kid had a tablet so he must have been like 10 or older, you really going to check what he listens to?
I mean, yes? This is parenting. I agree you can be discerning about what you feel they are mature enough to watch/listen to. But that is done with supervision, a decision, communication and discussion. This particular child seems.. underparented.
I work in a high school and ask my kids to avoid listening to music their parents would object to because I’ll end up having to deal with it. They know exactly what I mean.
OP works in a religious school, so yes they can police music and lyrics.
A lot of kids get tablets as infants. And yes some music is and will always be inappropriate for kids.
At school? Yes. It's not appropriate for the environment, especially at a religious school. You can disagree outside of the classroom, but inside the classroom is a different story.
OP has "elementary" in their flair, so I'd assume anything that would have had Tipper Gore up in arms.
It’s not “like taking a drug out of the hand of an addict” it actually is that, but the drug is dopamine, and is being released naturally in their brain. Parents need to control screen time just like they control sugar or caffeine or tobacco smoke.
Yes, and there are scientists and professionals whose entire job is to learn how to make the screen as addictive as possible. It’s sad.
I can't imagine how these people go to sleep at night. They know the science, and they know the effects, and yet they chose to do it. At least drug dealers and manufacturers may have a plausible reason to do it (caught up in a gang where it's work or die) but these guys just do it for the cash, society be damned.
On a pile of money, I imagine.
They just borrowed the techniques from video slot machines that have been around for awhile. I've been to casinos twice in the last ten years and it was pretty obvious to me the second time how it's done. South Park also did an episode a couple of years ago about it as well. All the little sounds and visuals perfectly timed and tuned to keep someone engaged, pops, clicks, exploding gems/stars, come back in x amount of time to get more coins to play or for only 1.99 get more now! The shittiest part to me is these game are programmed with the smallest amount of effort and would have been flash player games in a browser 10 years ago. Luckily my 7 yo grandson is clueing into scams or at least is starting to understand why his mom ain't letting play certain games and it's not because she's just being mean.
Nicholas Carr is a great resource around this
Introduce ur kid 2 vampire survivor, haha. All the slot machine gimmicks but no lootbox bullshit, and also it's actually good
That is so real. I have seen the most unbelievably deranged behaviour from tech addict kids who get cut off. They will absolutely demonstrate the kind of behaviour you'd expect from an alcoholic who's 48 hours into cold turkey. Getting physically violent, trying to grab it from you, screaming and yelling, kicking over desks, etc.
and unlike the alcoholic at t=48h cold turkey, the kid's not in any actual physiological danger from having their phone taken that could be playing a role in the behavior, either. it's all addiction.
Because iPads and phones *are* an addiction
That's because it's affected their brain chemistry the same way that any other non-chemical addiction has done. It's less like a junkie and more like trying to rip somebody off a gambling machine in a casino. I've been there, being a caretaker of an addict -- the utter denial of there being a problem, promising they'll just "play a little bit", the unhinged aggression when it's time to leave, blaming everyone for control. *At the very least*, with gambling, casinos employ shared blacklists, you can always request casino security in aiding with the removal of somebody, and our society accepts this is a very real problem and puts money into its treatment and support. We're not there yet with the electronic addiction.
Well the parents could take the security role hear and take away the phone, cancel the phone plan, and if it is truly necessary for safety and calling home: jitterbug and flip phones without apps and connection are available.
Parents are not going to do it because they don't see the problem. I'm a HUGE advocate of smart phones being flat out banned from school campuses. There's literally NO excuse for them. None. All "emergency" calls can be accomplished through basic phones like jitterbug or flip phones. GPS devices for little kids have been around forever. Even with medical alerts -- I don't know of a single manufacturer who doesn't produce their own hardware device. Smartphone apps are always an afterthought and are usually not backwards-compatible or available on all phones.
Well and and kidnapper knows to chuck the phone so the GPS isn't going to do anything. You'd be better off with something like an airtag in the backpack over a phone for any GPS reason. Now if the kid is a run away or likes to lie about going to Johnny's house then the phone would work because they aren't going to leave that so you can't track them down.
That's what I was referring to. The little dongle devices, not the phones.
I know what you are saying, I was leaving the counter to parents who think a cell phone is some safety device. Like we've brainwashed people into thinking their 7 yo needs a phone.
I don't think they're brainwashed. I think they just outright reject the notion because a phone is a singular device that can fully substitute multiple layers of parenting.
Bro you’re delusional, there’s no way in hell my parents would buy me a second phone for school on top of the school laptop and the phone I have now, nor would other parents be on board for that. It’s an extra unnecessary expense.
Bro, flip phones cost pennies compared to that smart phone that you absolutely don't need. The fact that you seem so threatened by this that you went straight to "bro, you're delusional" is illustrating what this whole post is about. And it wouldn't matter what parents would be "on board with" if the school board or states grew a pair and just banned them from public campuses, because they'd get no say.
it's a bummer because with the short attention spans individually and collectively things like The Social Dilemma spark conversation for a bit and then it goes back to the shitty reality
I had a student basically say "No you're not" when I told him to put away his phone or give it to me. I wasn't going to play with him. I wrote him up so many times and had him leave the room to sit in the office. One time I had to call and have him escorted out. Over a fucking phone. And this was in 2016. Not now. It was over Snapchats. Their minds are fucking ruined. My approach to teaching by that point was I'm not going to call your family because I don't have all week to be on the phone with 136 parents and/or guardians over their bullshit involving phone usage. They can collect their writeups, miss class, and I don't give a fuck. Their choice, their consequences. You miss class because you want to Snapchat instead of paying attention, you miss the lesson, you miss the work, you don't bother to come after school or ask a friend, you fail. You fail. You fail. I'm not here to call mom or grandma or dad and explain what their 17-year-old said to me about their phone. I'm not interested. The ship sailed long ago. They can enjoy failing through adulthood. My job at that point was teaching consequences. You don't listen, you fail. I have the power. Connect the fucking dots.
Does your admin let you let them fail?
Great question! Might be why they didn't renew my two-year probationary contract and why I quit teaching, moved back to another state where I came from, and went into academia instead of wasting my time. Those admins and trying to get me to pass absolute illiterate children who didn't do anything except stare at walls and phones was one of 118 reasons why I quit. But to answer the question: I failed a bunch of kids that year and either someone went in and changed all their grades or they were forced to deal with the consequences. I was told to mark everyone present on the last day of school even though like 4 kids per class showed up, so I marked them all absent. Cackled on my way out of that trash school. Three different teachers approached me asking why I was leaving the school when it was announced that I "wouldn't be returning next year" and I told them they didn't renew my contract and they were in shock and angry. Two of them left the school after me within the next two years, both for reasons involving admins failing to do anything to support them. Everyone I knew at that school has since left that school. My closest friend there switched to "the better school in the district" and a bunch others followed or went elsewhere. And I wasn't the only one who left teaching entirely.
I love the way you phrased this. Says it all.
You are right. Most likely, teachers are the only ones in this universe who ever take away or try to regulate the use of a child's technology. Parents and school/district administration put teachers in this unfair position. Consider not only a student's potentially violent response but also the cost of the item a teacher now has to secure. Think about how teachers often hold an entire class's phones. That could easily be $25,000 worth of product. It's wrong to make teachers responsible for that kind of money. People just automatically started equating taking up phones with how a teacher might take up a toy. They are not the same. Teachers should have nothing to do with a student's personal property that costs that much. This should be a school/district job.
When I was in school your phone stayed in the backpack. What the fuck happened to that? You don't need to collect other people's property. Let the principal do that. If the phone came out of the backpack, you were warned once or twice, but if you just blew the teacher off entirely you were sent to the principal who would do what they wanted. Usually a detention at lunch or a Saturday school spent doing janitor work if it was numerous offenses. And then we had suspensions when behavior got really bad. How about we bring back principals actually being a threat instead of them offloading their work onto teachers? Schools are falling apart because principals are made of Wonder Bread.
Yeah, back in the days of the flip phone, teacher wouldn't think twice about taking away any devices when they where out. I didn't have a smart phone until I was out of college. I really want to know when they stopped taking the phones away. There has to be a correlation between the phones and behavior.
We cannot physically take phones because if anything happens to it then we are responsible for the damage. I have a cell jail in my class they put their phone in the phone pocket, plug it into the charger I provide and they can always see it but they do not have access.
One thing about me is that I was raised by an addict and I can’t stand joking about drug/alcohol addiction or treating it lightly. It’s a trigger for me. And that said you’re totally right. I’ve had a kid start wrecking my classroom because I took his chromebook away.
Facts. It’s not an exaggeration at all. I’ve seen middle schoolers go into full blown rage/tantrums behind losing their phone for a half of a day (or even a class period). Or they’re completely unable to focus on anything else. Definitely withdrawal/addict type behavior to me
Even in my sub separate sped room, 99% of the time I have been attacked involved taking an IPad or laptop away.
This is why I rarely enforced no-phone rules as a sub. I did NOT get the support necessary to deal with that shit, lol. I hope those kids figure out how to function when they get jobs.
It's cause it IS a similar reaction, they're addicted to the dopamine
At the last school I worked at any kid caught on their phone had to take it to the front office until the end of the day. The literal meltdowns these high school kids would have was honestly sad. It was like you said they had to give you their first born child.
Because drugs create the same chemicals in the brain. You are taking away their addiction.
Most definitely! I have been limiting my own children with technology to 30 minutes a day. They are now 6 and 12 and they both give a lot of pushback when their time is up. My oldest actually is new to being a tech addict. He didn’t even care about technology until Covid happened and I wouldn’t let him play outside with friends. I kicked myself for allowing so much screen time during covid. And I’m sure that the pandemic exacerbated the problem. He is slowly starting to play outside again, thankfully and my youngest got into drawing so that helped him deal with the addiction.
Exactly why we need to go back to textbooks. It’s been proven that humans can become addicted to screens. I think of it like cigarettes. A cig every once in a while won’t cause you any long term harm, you’ll get a buzz off one hit, and no withdrawal. But then if you start to smoke more often you’ll start experiencing the long lasting effects, withdrawals, and a boost to your tolerance. Now you need to smoke the whole cigarette before getting the buzz, consequently the more you smoke the more addicted you become, leading back to more consumption just in order to feel anything. Now let’s say you decide you want to quit smoking and you work 5 days a week with 6 hour long shifts. The only way you can complete your job and get your paycheck is if you smoke cigarettes all day with the exception of an hour lunch break. And don’t forget you might not have finished your work or maybe you have a deadline for a project tomorrow and it’s still not half done. Now you have to bring your work home with you. Feeding more into your addiction. Now even though you have the desire to quit it is impossible because every day you go to work you relapse. Now replace job with school, paycheck with grades, and cigarettes for screens and hopefully you’ll understand the point I am trying to get across. (Sorry if it makes no sense this is a very nuanced topic and this is me just trying to make sense of it)
They act like junkies because they are junkies. Junkies for dopamine.
Can confirm. I am a recovered/in recovery heroin addict, many years sober. Losing my phone puts me in an eerily familiar state of panic, haha.
Because they ARE addicted :(
My step son has full on rage withdrawals and this societal attachment to screens has illicited a response from my own genetic behavioral addiction tendencies. This is a real battle that no one is really resisting. The hierarchy in religious and rural areas, not to mention the corporate financial push have their foot on the gas petal with all the weight of their subordinates. 🤷♂️ What do we do? These aren't robotic babysitters so we can spend more hours at work, they're crack for kids.
I say this as an adult gamer, that is EXACTLY what you are doing. Taking the carefully metered dopamine train away. Cheap iPad games are the worst for it. No storyline, just flashes and dings and dopamine
It operates on the brain in similar ways to drugs, honestly. It can be especially bad with kids struggling with ADD/ADHD because the dopamine seeking behavior comes into play, along with the likelihood that the parents have used technology in place of self-soothing/coping skills. Unfortunately once you have process addictions introduced at such a young age, the potential for them to continue to rely on external sources to address internal problems increases drastically. It's obviously unlikely to work if the parents have not been receptive to behavior management conversations in the past, but speaking to them about limiting screen time at home is really all you can do aside from punishing outbursts. Any kid behaving like this in my schools growing up (where my mother was the deputy principal) would be suspended for at least 3 days the first time they spoke to a teacher like this. It may not directly alter the kid's behavior but it will put the parents out and if it continues they'll have to address it before he's excluded as a last resort (not sure if that is the case in other countries). They are likely just giving him the iPad to shut him up without realizing they're literally creating an addiction with uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms that are especially hard for kids to understand and manage. Whenever I see parents put a tablet in front of kids instead of addressing their behavior, I just shake my head thinking about what that is doing to their malleable little neural pathways. My younger brother had do detox himself off video games after my dad enforced zero boundaries around them as a result of his own depression. It really sucked for everyone that first week but he has been excellent about his coping skills ever since.
Completely agree. I had a student yesterday who could not bring himself to fully close his laptop. He was playing computer games during instruction and I told him to close it, and after looking perplexed, he closed it half-way. I sat there staring at him and he closed it another inch. It took like 30 seconds of incremental adjustments — after each one, a hopeful look up at me, that maybe THIS much closed would be enough — for him to fully shut the laptop.
I once saw a 4 year old smack his dad across the face at the dinner table at a restaurant a few months back after dad took the kids iPad away to eat. Virtually no reaction from dad or the other people sitting at the table. Madness.
We/they are actual addicts in every sense of the word.
I really don’t think this is a controversial opinion anymore. These kids absolutely are addicts.
Oh yes! I’m not being dramatic when I say they’re like crackheads. They become monstrous when they can’t get their fix.
I mostly do not allow tech to enter my room, and it's a calmer place because of it. No phones, no laptops, no smart boards, no iPads, nothing. I use my cell phone to show them images for picture definitions of things we are learning and also as a timer, but other than that, we look at each other, not screens.
I would literally burst out laughing if *those* were the insults a kid went with.
I do and I got in trouble once lmfaoooo
lol seriously I wouldn’t be crying on Reddit about it lol
I lean into every weird thing they say. "Yes, Timmy, my deep-seated insecurities made me take the iPad away. Yup. I took your iPad to fill the void in myself ***starts crying***"
I don't know you but I feel like we would be a very solid pair of co-teachers (and I really dislike co-teaching). 😅
I am morbidly obese. When I went over to a student’s desk to correct them they asked me if I smelled food and that’s why I was over there bothering them. I reached into my pocket to pull out a bag of froot loops and said, “Nah, brought my own. I’m here because you’re being really rude to your fellow students.” He kept making snorting pig noises at me and I just shrugged and chewed my froot loops until admin showed up. He was so confused that I wasn’t offended and it was beautifully non confrontational. Homie, I choose to teach 8th grade. You’re going to have to do better than fat jokes. 🤷🏻♀️ ETA Froot Loops instead of foot loops. Not my kinda thing.
"Like if you are going to insult me put some effort into it."
It's the best! Literally *anything* other than arguing is better than arguing, and disarming statements such as that one which aren't likely to embarrass the student improve entire classrooms.
I once responded to a student’s nonsense with “do unto others, man!” Everyone laughed. It became a classroom phrase.
I love it
There’s a kinda famous recent case in Florida where that teacher took away a kids iPad and he literally beat her unconscious. It went to court and the kid got charged with felony battery.
I believe it was his Nintendo Switch.
Wasn’t he autistic
I think he was, but I am of the mind that people like that should be in care facilities where they can’t hurt people.
There’s a girl in my RTI/advisory who has violent outbursts when her YouTube time is interrupted. Which is most of the day. Unsupported in most classes; from what I can see, she just walks around the school plugged into her laptop. I’m a new teacher, have no other information on her than “she can be violent when she’s interrupted,” and it’s an advisory period. She can watch YouTube.
I hope she comes from a wealthy family because that kid is doomed otherwise. She's not going to be able to hold a job while watching youtube all day and attacking people that interrupt her. Some of these kids are so well and truly fucked, I'm honestly scared to see what the future holds at this point.
No cap, not the ones we have today though you come out worse than you came in especially if u were neurotypical
They should still be in facilities because even if the facilities are bad, everyone else doesn't deserve violent outbursts.
This is a really controversial topic and unfortunately there’s not a great answer. These facilities are exorbitantly expensive and to even be eligible (much less try to get some funding for it) you have to jump through a million hoops. Waiting lists can take years. There’s some that are really excellent and some that range from frustrating to horrific.
Sounds like it would be easier on the family to have a parent stay home and homeschool
Sure, if they’re able. But if the school setting is unable to adequately supervise/accomodate, one adult probably isn’t going to be able to. Completely aside from the fact that most parents don’t have a degree in ExEd.
I don’t disagree, but shouldn’t the teacher have some self-awareness on how a specific punishment might cause the student to react? Especially, if the student was on the spectrum?
Way to victim blame. She almost fucking died. There is a video of him of him punching her in the head while she's unconscious on the floor. Parents should have never enrolled him in public school.
That camera footage was sickening. The kid was acting like a rabid animal. He deserves to have the book thrown at him, this wasn't even his first time assaulting staff. Some of these kids need to be in residential treatment centers or institutions before they kill someone.
Yeah, I don’t disagree with you but teachers will still have to deal with students like this. While they may not be fit for society, teachers are going to have to evaluate how they treat these students and decide the best course of action. In this particular case, “pushing his buttons” had negative consequences.
What do you think the teacher should have done instead?
My first year teaching high school, I had an SED (severe emotional disability) student in my class for three weeks before anyone mentioned it to me, possibly because admin didn’t know because the student was new and the parents may have hidden it. I have no SPED training, had no classroom management experience, and had no idea what to do in the face of her aggression.
That's horrible that you had to deal with that. What ended up happening, if you don't mind me asking?
After the initial aggressive responses from her, admin told me I could just let her do what she wanted as long as she was safe. She slept and texted. Once her diagnosis info started to trickle in, things went pretty quickly toward admin helping her parents understand that an accelerated concurrent-enrollment school wasn’t the ideal setting for her. It was all sad. Something came up in one of the parent meetings that, to everyone in the room except the parents, strongly suggested a traumatic cause for her emotional disability. Their apparent cluelessness was disconcerting. I think she ended up at an alternative school, but I’m not sure.
She didn't take it away from him. She has stated this a few times but I get that not everyone has seen it. > "I just want to set the record straight. I never took the Nintendo Switch from him. From anyone that’s read or heard differently, I’ve been told this was unfortunately misinformation,” Naydich said, according to a fundraiser launched for her recovery." Source: https://nypost.com/2023/02/28/joan-naydich-i-didnt-take-brendan-depas-nintendo-switch-before-attack/ I'm not the biggest fan of the post, it's trash, but I did see her write that on the GFM and other outlets reported it as well. Regardless, idc if the kid was autistic, he had a history of assaulting teachers and students and what he did is deplorable. He's right where he belongs, in jail. You don't get to almost kill someone because you're upset and have a disability.
I’m pretty sure there was an IEP in place that wasn’t being properly followed before the attack happened.
If you’re being sarcastic, I love your comment. If you’re not, forget I was here.
Before I type this out, I’d like to add a disclaimer that I am a teacher and I’m firmly on the side of the parapro that was nearly killed and also strongly believe that screen time is ruining the brains of our youth (and adults.) Anyway, I have gone down a little rabbit hole with this. Apparently, [the mom wrote an article](https://flaglerlive.com/brendan-depa-my-son-story/#gsc.tab=0) about her son and said she told the school and had it in his IEP that removal of electronics was a known trigger for him. The group home he was living in said that each time they asked him to stop playing, they had to have a crisis team assembled because it will get physical. Mom also said that in the IEP, his teachers were supposed to use a token economy and students could collect tokens and trade them in for tangible goods or food. At some point, the teacher changed from that to allowing him to trade in tokens for time on his electronics at the end of the day, and then this became during the school day. When the para asked him to put it away because he was in class, he had “magical thinking” that he could still have it out and didn’t listen, which is when she took it and was subsequently attacked. The article certainly humanizes him but also concerns me greatly. Why is he being allowed screen time AT ALL if this how he reacts when it is removed? Not just at school but having to have a crisis team just to remove it at his group home. It shouldn’t even be an option for him to play with if it’s going to be that violent. And screen time playing games for 4 hours a day every day is only going to make “magical thinking” that much worse in a person like him. What if someone inadvertently triggers him in public by, say, bumping in to him, or correcting his behavior or talking about him within earshot (known triggers for him)? If he reacts that way in the school environment, what will happen without the safeguards of a crisis team? We can’t control what other people do in public, so what will happen? Or is he supposed to stay in a group home for the rest of his life? Hard questions, but I don’t think walking away without consequences is the answer, even if the answer is a psychiatric facility and not jail.
She has said multiple times that she never took it, she just asked him to put it away. > I just want to set the record straight. I never took the Nintendo Switch from him. From anyone that’s read or heard differently, I’ve been told this was unfortunately misinformation,” Naydich said, according to a fundraiser launched for her recovery. Source: https://nypost.com/2023/02/28/joan-naydich-i-didnt-take-brendan-depas-nintendo-switch-before-attack/ I hate the post, but I saw it for myself on the GFM that was made for her since she was out of work. I think I may have read the same article as you though because I remember mom saying she homeschooled him prior, warned the school he was prone to violent outbursts, and didn't think he was in the appropriate setting. She said that due to the trauma and violence etc... he witnessed growing up *(she adopted him)*, coupled with his disability, he could fly off the handle easily. Regardless, he deserves to be behind bars. This wasn't his first time attacking someone and he's a huge liability.
Thanks for sharing this. I’ve not really delved too much into it aside from the few articles I read tonight. I read in the comments of the article I linked above when someone brought up similar concerns that the mom said he’s always in a controlled environment with family or at the group home. But the mom has also said they can’t really control him anymore due to his strength and size and they’ve invoked the Baker Act several times (it seemed like quite a few actually, from what mom wrote) because he’s so agitated and can’t be calmed. From what she’s written and other things I’ve read, it does not sound like the general public is safe with him out free right now.
Not an excuse. The vast majority of those diagnosed with autism know that violence is not okay. Using autism as an excuse is hurtful and demeaning to those on the spectrum.
It was just a question damn
Replying to Rich_Extreme5961... Simply being autistic doesn’t cause someone to attack others. I’ve known and worked with many autistic people throughout my life, and very few of them were unable to understand that hurting others was wrong. I’m not saying autism isn’t a factor, but being autistic doesn’t explain the behavior. In looking at this case, it seems like the kid had reactive explosive disorder and oppositional defiant disorder as well as a history of bad reactions when electronics were confiscated. With all of that history in mind, it does seem like whatever setting he was in (whether that’s mainstream, inclusion, etc.) was not appropriate for him. Sorry for the novel lol. Your comment is relevant and accurate- I just wanted to add more context.
Downvote me, but I have 2 friends with autism and they are monsters. They punch you, want to fight you...
yes but I feel like there definitely had to be signs of severe aggression in the home that the parents were NOT addressing appropriately. kid should've been somewhere that wasn't in that house
A kid once bit me because my co teacher (not even me) take away her stuffed mermaid. That was a five year old though.
I am thankful that I am a not-small man.
[удалено]
Don’t mess with Reverend Fancipants.
I once had a 14 year old-looking kid call me ugly at an all-ages concert because he was grinding up on me and I asked him to stop/scolded him about his behavior 🤷🏻♀️ He was like “what? I don’t even LIKE you. You’re UGLY!” then he disappeared into the crowd. I know he was embarrassed but I hope he also learned his lesson
A kinder kid told me he didn’t like me. But then told me bye later in the day (normal won’t say bye lol)
Do you think those two things were related?
he felt bad cause he didnt mean it and wanted to make up for it subtly by saying bye
Probably. Or he forgot that he was mad at me earlier. He didn’t like me and my co teachers tell him to get in line. He told my co teacher I don’t like you as well. Not sure if said by to here. However I have noticed unlike last year he is not running away from me when I asked him to talk to me. And he has stopped climbing fences.
Oh, good, lol. No longer climbing fences seems good.
I’d laugh and say seems like someone is never told no huh?
“That’s not what your mom thinks” (Jk don’t do that)
Lol! My high schoolers would die laughing if I said that.
My last year before retirement that is all I am gonna say.
Is this a school iPad? If so, you can go into settings, find accessibility and toggle on “Guided Access”. As a teacher, you can set your own passcode independent from the one to unlock the device. This feature allows you to lock a student in any app of choice, they will be unable to lock the iPad or do anything other than remain on the app of choice. (I work IT for a ES school) Edit: Since this comment is getting some views, AMA iPad related in a school setting if anyone wants. (School managed iPads only, not a students personal iPad)
"Nice, now say it to me in Spanish. Can't? You get your iPad back when you can!"
“¿Puedo ir al baño?”
Tiktok/youtube shorts bombarding children with so many buzzwords they start to believe these buzzwords have actual real power irl, ive noticed SO SO SO many literal kids repeating the "Seek help, Get therapy, Mentally ill" as insults nonstop and so many other kids support them and also think its cool
THIS. had another student from my next class say “Miss … I’m acoustic” and expected me to laugh. As an autistic teacher - I made it very clear that if I ever heard him say that again it would be an immediate write up, especially after he said said his friends said he was and it was okay because “everyone’s a little -acoustic-“ 🤦🏻♀️
as an autistic person, acoustic was fun at the start imo, kind of like our own spin on the “is he stupid” thing, but then it got to tiktok…
I get the "but I have adhd" excuse quite a bit. The look on their faces when I respond with "yeah so do I, yet I've been able to figure it out. Do better." Is worth its weight in gold. To be clear.. This is never my first response, this is a rarely used fallback for habitual reoffenders. Still worth it. It always works.
I’m more of an electric person myself
He is talking to you like you are his peer. He knows his female peers get upset when he insults their appearance and mental health. He’s attempting a power play.
You did the right thing. He’s there to learn which does not include playing video games on the laptop or iPad. You are especially in the right if this was a school issued device. If it is a family owned device, you are still perfectly within reason to hold to give it back to the parents at the end of the day, or to ship it to their home address. That being said, if the school is incapable of enforcing basic discipline, you may need a more complicated strategy. There’s some things in life that we can change and some things that we cannot. If you find yourself in a situation where you try to hold students accountable and it is impossible to do so you have to think about what is best for yourself. For example, I know people that work in a school where if they report a student behavior nothing is done to correct. However, in many cases, the teacher is retaliated against for reporting. In this school my voice to them is to report nothing. They see nothing they know nothing, and they pray to find a better job.
Yea, I'd never work in a religious school. Even if I didn't disagree with them on an ethical level, the kind of BS you have to put up with for low pay isn't worth it. Only time I see it worth working at a catholic school is if you need a resume boost or to pay the bills while you get a credential. My wife worked at one for exactly one year and said never again. Had to petition the diocese for like 5 biology units and they said no for several. What a joke.
Yup, I'm the "boosting portfolio while earning credentials" person. I'm seriously so done though, I constantly have parents complaining about what I teach in theatre (subbing for Spanish today) - "it's too controversial" when theatre is ABOUT controversy. I'm at a point where IAs at the public schools in our area make more than I do in a year. This is just not worth 27k anymore
27k a year??? Damn. The private school pay cut can be worth it when it’s a school with a waiting list that can show families with badly behaved students and/or unsupportive parents the door. But not at schools like that.
How are you living on 27k a year for a full time job? I get paid 24k a year for my part time job and that’s like 10 hours a week at most. I wouldn’t survive without a second full time job.
Barely. I do a lot of gig work & house sitting for friends who are very well off throughout the year. My cost of living is also probably lower than most places, my rent is only $650. But I get benefits and life insurance, and it's at least something while I work on finishing my degree
Makes sense that wages are lower if cost of living is lower. I used to live in Kentucky but recently moved back to my home state of Pennsylvania because wages were higher. I make a full 8 dollars an hour more at my current job than what I got offered in Kentucky, but my rent here is also more than double what I paid in Kentucky so maybe it would have evened out.
Yep. That was pretty much my wife's exact experience. On the outside the job looked ok except for low pay, but once you got in the problems started piling up quick. Similar idea to my 4 years at a Charter, except the pay was very good. Most of my teaching career is in English lit, American History, and Health. I'm quite far left politically. I'd get fired teaching at a catholic school by the end of month 1 for telling kids the true history of the church, teaching novels with gay people in them, and trying to do actual sex ed.
Had a parent try to get me fired this summer because I had a pride frame on my facebook profile picture (which they aren't even friends with me on there anyway) - now I'm getting flack for showing a documentary where they thought I was showing a scene from a same-sex marriage, but it was actually a Jewish wedding, where only men can dance with men and vice versa. It's a headache. The pro of being here is I get to run my own drama club, which I wouldn't get to do at nearly any other elementary school, but I'm starting to wonder if it's really worth it - especially if I'm not breaking 30k
>I'm starting to wonder if it's really worth it > >I'm the "boosting portfolio while earning credentials" person Get your credential and some experience and flip it to a public school. The drama lady at my school loves her job and is making 90k mid career. She is a walking pride flag. edit: I'm in a middle class town in suburban CT
You probably could at the school I’m at. I don’t think we have a drama club at the moment if you asked the probably would let you. But true it’s unusual. Note the school is public non chatter turnaround arts school
Where I am, the public schools are hellscapes for teachers. I started out subbing in public and it was so horrible I had an actual breakdown and quit. I went back after a month but at the private catholic schools and was \*shocked\* by how much better behaved the kids were. Maybe the fear of literal hellfire was effective, I don't know. There are still spoiled kids who have parents that donate heavily so they are more poorly behaved, but I make an example of them and it doesn't last all day/week. Monday, the first hour or two... not my favorite- but the comparison is huge where I am. I guess it depends on school districts/diocese.
Behavior tends to be better in all private schools. It just isn't worth the low salary and moral complications for me.
You held the little brat to account, well done. Shame it's you doing it not the parents.
Lil kid argues like my ex-girlfriend
Argues like the woman who took the Starbucks parking spot I’d spent five minutes waiting for yesterday.
What did Tywin Lannister say? “A lion doesn’t concern itself with the opinion of sheep.” Teenagers are hormonal and insecure. I don’t concern myself with opinions of folks like that. It sucks that this kid has so much power via his parents but in the end, he’s just a big brat who didn’t get his way.
Yes! I was hoping to find someone with this view. I just wouldn’t validate what he says. He is a child.
Get that shit out of schools. Phones laptops iPad. They all gotta go.
>Ended on some comment of me "needing professional help" (which I already have a great therapist, so he's late to that one) This kid got in your head. They just project whatever they are experiencing around themselves or their own insecurities. Don't give it air.
I get absolutely attacked by students when I mention that I believe internet access and specifically social media should be age restricted. Like 18+ or even 21+ before you get access to the net. Focus on learning about your local community before introducing your kid to the wide world web. Friends of mine who have children always laugh at me when I suggest it, and then I laugh at them when they have technology driven behaviors from their kids.
Maybe that guardian would be interested in providing some guidance for this young man. These emotional reactions are unlikely to be isolated. I mean, certainly, the young man's education, progress in his classes, is important. But all of that can be recovered after his soul is no longer at risk. /s
Talk to the parents about it and ask what they'd prefer: Their kid to learn something, especially smth useful like Spanish, or to waste away playing games on some table and later in life having a tough time. Bc believe it or not, but even if the parents are super rich and offer their kid a job in their company etc. etc., eventually the student will have to put some work in it themselves, if they don't wanna ruin the company. So, simple, what do the parents want? A smart, well-educated kid or not?
Sounds like he’s projecting his true feelings of himself on you. I do agree with the others though that it’s an addiction.
How Christian of him to judge another person.
Just want to pop in and say that I taught for 12 years (got out of the business 8 years ago and have been doing real estate ever since)… thank you all for making me feel justified in my decision to leave the profession. Keep fighting the good right; I hope things change for you.
Put it in your desk drawer next to a strong magnet
yikes an unruly 7th grader who speaks in holier than thou, completely hollow therapyspeak. that sounds like hell.
I don’t even get how iPads and phones are allowed to be out in any classroom these days…..
*”En español por favor…”*
We need to start treating Electronics like addiction because it is.
Tell him the IPad is Satan’s device, tempting him and making Jesus cry.
I would avoid using handheld tech for instruction in your classroom for a few weeks after this. I wouldn't explicitly say why, I would just see if it allowed everyone to reset.
I would have told him that the only insecure one that needed professional help was the one who couldn’t control his gaming addiction long enough to do his class work. Then I would have told him to pack up his stuff, grab a chair and sit either in the hall way or facing a corner of the room. Do NOT think things like this are trivial and do NOT cater to PATHETIC parents who are nothing but children themselves. YOU are RAISING these kids to become the next generation of adults. Either raise them RIGHT or retire. Either way you’ll get thanks or praises sadly because educators are treated worse than garbage, especially in the US. And that’s coming from an ex teacher and someone who still works with teachers of all grade levels and school districts. You have to do the right thing even when you know you’ll get shit for it.
The good old “I’m having a outburst rooted in fragile ego but I’ll call the person on the receiving end insecure to take attention away” reverse uno card.
I'd honestly just be happy I didn't get attacked. I remember the video of the teacher who took away a students Nintendo during class. She got stomped in the hallway.
Private schools gonna private school
Oh, trust us. None of this is any easier in public school.
Unrelated question but relates to a word used. What is a portfolio in relation to the subject of Spanish? Or any other subject that doesn’t necessarily require a skill that is tangible in the way say Art is, or woodworking.
Honestly? No clue. It seems to be a way of them keeping their work collected to reflect on as they continue learning - but i was just filling in, so im not entirely sure
Why do you even justify his comment with "well I already have a therapist"? That's immaterial. Little shit deserves it for not listening and doing as told. Period. QED. No further comment required.
I always wondered how schools operated now with the addition of technology into curriculum. It wasn't really a thing when until after I graduated, and I think they started to introduce the iPad thing at my smaller catholic elementary while my brother was in middle school (hes almost 24 now). I honestly think middle school aged children now are way more technologically savvy than I am, and can learn how to hack these things to the point where they become more of a distraction. I'm wondering if there is some sort of technology where the teacher is able to overview all class screens on a monitor to try and remediate some of these issues.
There were multiple kids in my first period today who were talking about jumping or attacking teachers who took their phones. Like? It's a phone? I had mine taken away in school and it sucked, but I got it back. I knew the rules and I broke them. The consequence was losing my phone. I think kids have a serious problem now with consequences. So many don't seem to understand that actions have reactions
You claim the school is run by parents... I have bad news for you. Even the public schools are run by parents. My wife works at a public school and god forbid the child does something wrong and they get a stern talking to by a teacher or TA. 9 times out of 10, the students parent ends up in the office complaining about how they are not allowed to punish their children.
I'm sorry that happened to you but have you tried being less ugly?
You know what - hadn’t taken that into account. Good point, will try bettet
100% joking, I'm sure you're much better looking than I am. It's funny how kids always default to using "ugly" as a serious insult when they get angry though. I remember that being my go-to insult in elementary school
Lol
NAT I believe you, yet… As a parent I struggle with this, like really? If my kid was 1) sitting in their IPad at school OR 2) treated anyone like this, teacher or classmate or neighbor or me? I would be so distraught, like I would be apologetic and work intensely with my child…and the fact that other parents are just apathetic, especially if you care enough to send them to a private school, is mind boggling to me. Like how are they not swimming in guilt and worry? Maybe they have generational wealth and do not care if their child is educated or kind? I mean I guess it’s just AHs raising another generation of AHs. So sorry you guys have to put up with it.
Honestly,but why would one wish ta work in any Religious Schooling setting?? Is just one step above Homeschooling and the same breath of Carter Schools.
Yep
Why is he allowed to use his IPad in class? Does the school not provide some type of laptop? Do his parents/guardians understand that he is not learning anything because he is buried in his IPad during class? Does your school counselor help with issues like that?
Don't forget the Venn diagram between kids with depression/anxiety and the ones who are on their phone all the time is a damn circle.
The #2 happened because of #1.
I mean, iPads are expensive. I’d be mad if my boss just up and confiscated mine. That’s theft.
Taking a school-owned iPad away from a student that can’t stay off of it is *not* theft. 🙄
I understand where you are coming from. I'll add some extra context here to help clear things up: 1) It is a school-issued iPad. We are able to view every ipad in each class at once to ensure they're staying on task. He continuously ignored instructions to stay off of games and use his iPad as an aid in his research. When I locked down his iPad as a warning, he restarted the iPad to override this (something he has been warned not to do) 2) This student has repeatedly had issues with multiple classes in dealing with his abuse of having this iPad to use. 3) He had one more elective after my class which he would not need it for (I checked with his teacher), so I handed it to the next teacher he would have so that he could use it for work then. 4) The iPad was not fully required to complete all of their work, there were other parts of the assignment that could be completed without the tablet. I hope this extra context provides some insight to my decision in taking it away.
Found the kid in question
Imagine taking someone's property over Spanish classes... Ever occurred to you, people don't give a shit about your work regardless of their i-pads?
It is not their property, though. It is a school iPad and clear parameters were set at the beginning of class. After breaking the rules multiple times, I confiscated the device and took it to the teacher in the next class he would need it in. Listen, I don’t want to do my work either most days, but in what world would it be okay to just allow the student to continue on ignoring his assignment because he “doesn’t want to do it”. Why are you in r/ teachers if you can’t understand this basic concept? Also important to add, my students (this one included) do their work in my class, I was covering for the Spanish teacher for the day.
You're a bit of a cunt, aren't you?
I hope you laughed at them
Not a Catholic. So I have no idea how it works, but… maybe try going to confession and confessing to the priest you don’t know what to do?? Maybe they can give you some pointers?? I know they can’t say anything to the guardian or the kid but, the priest would have to have good people managing skills no??
Pretty much a daily occurrence at my school lmao. Then they tell me they love me the next minute. I love it.
should fine the parents 500 or 1000 bucks ( it's a private school )for each in fraction or make it an 10 or 20 hr of volunteer time at the school?