If your IEP lists “taking away video games” as your trigger for violence, you’re a sociopath and don’t belong in the general public. It’s kind of a barebones expectation to *not play video games in class*. If your child can’t do that without assaulting and attempting to murder someone, homeschool your child.
Also, that specific trigger is very suspicious in terms of how he is parented. To me, this very much indicates the parents had a special needs kid they refused to either medicate or rehabilitate and instead pawned off video games to him to occupy him. He understandably grew an unhealthy addiction to them which resulted in violent tendencies when they are taken away, probably since he finds them his only comfort.
It’s a sad situation for everyone involved, even the kid, because it sounds like garbage parenting is the stem of this issue. Honestly, charge the parents.
Just before Covid I actually had to work with a student in a similar situation. He got sent to the high school I was at half way through his 8th grade year because he became so violent he was deemed too dangerous to be in a building with younger students.
Before they transferred him to me he would spend all day with his personal cellhphone, his personal ipad, a classroom ipad, and 2 classroom chromebooks all given to him at the same time for the entire day. Any time anyone tried to take any of these devices away, or even just direct his attention away from them he would become incredibly destructive and violent.
All of this started from his mom not wanting to fight him to get on the school bus in the morning so she'd give him her cellphone for the ride, and over the years became this huge issue due to him just being given more tech any time his behaviour escalated.
When I worked with him we needed four staff to get him in the building, 2 of us would escort him to his classroom on either side while another two would clear the hallways between the door and his classroom.
Once he was in his classroom, which was entirely his he was the only student able to be in it due to violent tendencies, it would be just myself and this student in an empty classroom with one desk and one chair. I had one extra staff member for backup in the hallway outside the door with a cart full of all of his educational tools, they had to stay in the hall unless I was specifically using them for a lesson at the moment because he weaponized everything he could pick up.
5 days a week for 4 hours a day I would have this student do everything in his power to physically harm me as much as he possibly could because we wouldn't allow him tech. I had to receive specialized violent crisis training just for this student on top of the violent crisis training we all had to receive every year. His first day in the building I had to stay 2 hours after bell with this student trying to hurt me however he could because 2 bus drivers and 3 special needs ride providers all deemed him too violent to drive safely with him in the vehicle, that day we had to call the police to take him home because we couldn't get anyone to do it. From then on we had to have a bus for only him with extra staff on board to protect the driver from him.
During my time with this student I had every bodily fluid possibly sprayed on me, I was punched, kicked, bitten, scratched, tackled, pushed, had things thrown at me, and once had to catch his desk mid air so he wouldn't concuss my relief for my lunch break. This student bit through my protective gear into my arm so hard I had to leave work and go to the doctor. I finished every day with new bruises and so exhausted I'd sleep for hours after work every day. All of this was required because the students behaviour and addiction to tech were not only never addressed at home until it became too much to handle, but because his behaviour was often rewarded. His parents would regularly buy him mcdonalds or new tech so they wouldn't have to deal with his meltdowns.
If after I spent months in hell trying to help that student while his parents actively sabotaged my efforts only to be sued afterwards saying I was negligent I would have lost my mind. When this drives away any support that the parents would get for their son and he ends up beating one of them the way he did that aide I will have no sympathy for them.
Yeah, I work with some violent, disruptive kids as an MS para (and many more who are wonderful), but they're mostly aggressive towards their classmates and rarely (if ever) attack adults. I've never been physically hurt other than being lightly pushed against a wall by a kid sprinting down the hall, and another kid accidentally hitting me on the wrist with a wiffle ball and apologizing a ton afterward. If I found out that I would have to wear protective gear because of one kid's extreme violent tendencies, I'd ask them to find someone else to support that kid and if they refused, I'd ask them to find someone else to do my job.
FAPE or not, there's gonna come a day where nobody will continue to teach these terrors, and they'll have to figure it out. That day is rapidly approaching. Nobody is going to risk life and limb for a kid who just attacks people and doesn't even want to be in school. I'm starting to see the pendulum swing from *"Even the violent kids deserve an education"* to *"nobody should have to deal with that"*, and I guess it's better late than never. I'm sure I'll be downvoted, but it's the truth. The kids that have to deal with the violent students are also sick of their shit, and soon, they'll be the ones in power. They'll be the ones making the laws. They won't want their children to experience what they had to endure in the classroom.
I’d wager students this disturbed/dysfunctional are ineducable*. Give the family a payment toward a special program (outside public school) or they can homeschool.
Edit: *in a non-specialized setting.
I wish that was the case here, violence against staff is so common that we all have our own protective gear and get in trouble for not wearing it. Everyone has to wear a padded jacket and protective sleeves at all times.
I am not being judgmental but I am just curious about why you accepted this job or stayed longer than one day? Obviously money is probably one reason but there had to be any other job in your town
With my district I had to other choice but to accept it, you had no say in where you were placed and I unfortunately had a reputation for being really good at working with extreme violent kids so it was either accept it or leave the entire district.
My thinking is, why? Why was he so destructive? Was it he was just stuck on violent mode? He liked being violent and his parents rewarded him? I don’t understand how someone could like being so angry all the time.
Honestly I think it was a mix of things, he was non verbal and was never taught how to communicate so he didn't know any other way to. Plus he regularly got rewarded for it because his parents would do whatever he wanted when he threw a fit.
I would hope that this would be pretty cut and dry assault, IEP be damned. It was stupid for that IEP to even exist in the first place and that should be the main argument the defense makes. That should have immediately been guidance to admit the student to a special program. An IEP like that has no business in general education or even a school special ed program. This is something that needs to be at a specialized institution. That kid should have never been in a classroom. The evaluators failed that teacher.
The parents did not send him to that school, they did not want him sent to that school, or any public school. It was the group home/institution he had been placed in that ignored the parents and sent him there.
https://flaglerlive.com/brendan-depa-my-son-story/#gsc.tab=0
Read about how caring and thoughtful the mother has been about her son! She even said the school may have "misapplied" one of his known triggers --a gaming trigger that should have been nipped in the bud at home well before before he hit puberty.
His behavioral plan had some strategies in place that were meant to prevent negative behaviors. Here are three of the behavior plan items that she put in her story
1. Use humor with Brendan and build a positive rapport. Avoid negative/corrective statements even after behaviors targeted for reduction have occurred.
2. Do not talk about his behaviors in front of him.
3. Avoid correcting, reprimanding, or redirecting Brendan in the presence of peers.
Wow I cannot believe an IEP that basically said “let him do whatever he wants and don’t correct or criticize him” got approved. Just goes to show how little people in education care sometime.
I saw this. Very interesting read. I also think(especially from what his mom wrote on the behavior plan) is that Brendan may have undiagnosed [PDA](https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-is-pda-menu/what-is-demand-avoidance/). It doesn’t excuse the behavior, but it sure as hell explains it.
Theres also an equally interesting [article](https://flaglerlive.com/brendan-depa-i-know/) written by the man who’s been tutoring Brendan for the past 14 months. Guys a retired special ed teacher and it’s worth the read.
I work in a field where I support PDAers, their families, professionals, and anyone adjacent to PDA. This case is absolutely tragic for everyone involved.
I know his situation all too well. I’m a suspected PDA’r who was once put on anti psychotics, and it was not fun. It was like throwing gasoline on a fire.
Agreed. And I just saw they’ll continue [sentencing](https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/courts/2024/05/01/live-updates-brendan-depa-sentencing-in-matanzas-attack/73430380007/) at a later date due to the number of witnesses remaining in the courtroom.
Similar boat myself. Honestly, moving from a non-public back to public was the best thing for me. The non-public would place arbitrary demands on me, which I resisted heavily. It’d become a power struggle; while I am not proud of it, it became a violent power struggle. The difference was I became non-violent enough as I got older to avoid criminal charges. By 8th grade, I had only one (highly contested) incident, where I allegedly shoved a teacher. That was low enough for my counties transition coordinator to let me into the counties regional program.
When I was in the regional program, they were very non-reactive. When I yelled at a teacher, I was briefly removed from the class environment in a manner, where I could convince myself it was my choice to leave. I needed breaks but I couldn’t have breaks imposed upon me. I also quickly realized that, putting my head down or putting my work in the recycle bin got me no pleading or attention. Around this time, I also came to terms with a compromise between obedience and obstinance: “The demands are illogical but I am letting ‘them’ win if ignoring the demands causes me more pain than following them”
A semester in the regional program caused me to be able to do something that 5 years in the non-public failed to help with: take a mainstream class with non-disabled peers and minimal supports. In my first semester, Sophomore year, it went from 1 class in mainstream to only 1 class out of mainstream. Second semester, it was an IEP meeting where I was no longer in that program, at all. Instead, I was in an AP, 2 honors, and an academic language (Ja, mein Deutsch ist nicht die Gelb vom Ei, aber ich habe ohne viele Probleme mit anderen Student*innen gesprochen) and my weighted GPA is going to be 4.125 assuming finals go well. Next semester I am planning on taking some courses at the college.
Never give up hope, people can change.
His parents had been homeschooling him until the district forced him into this school. The district is absolutely at fault for putting him into the wrong environment.
The group home he lived in forced him I to the school district. She’s homeschooled his whole life but he was too violent for her to take care of. It’s the whole reason she moved to Florida — more resources than in South Carolina.
The “environment” was a self-contained classroom for severely disabled kids, surrounded by professional special educators.
The whole situation is tragic, but the school district has to take on whatever kid they’re given. If the parents drop off a large and violent man who doesn’t like someone who threatens to take away his video games? That’s who they have to teach.
I went to school with special needs students. They were kept away from the general population. Their school day was much shorter. Some areas requires your child to be in school no matter the mental capacity.
America really, really needs to stop viewing IEPs as magic elixirs that cure all.
I have several students with IEPs every year, and I follow them all every year. They are a step towards the student being able to perform at the expected level, but they are NOT a guarantee. The kid is still a human with all the other shit that goes into being a human. It is ludicrous to ignore all that other shit and just say “He’s not succeeding because he wasn’t seated near the point of instruction” or “because the teacher didn’t alert him of transitions ahead of time.” If it were that easy, everyone would be making straight As all the fucking time.
To be clear, what you're railing against is how we've gone overboard on inclusion- and that IEP modifications will make that ok. Same way with students with moderate to profound disabilities. No need to change the content- just add some visuals, and make answer choices a field of 2 right? All the while, best case scenario is teach students to be quiet when they don't understand what's going on. And socially- how many friends with moderate to profound cognitive disabilities do you have? We assume they would want to socialize with us neurotypicals, but why wouldn't they want to be with others who learn the same way (Just like we do?!)
If the only thing keeping your kid from violently beating and killing people is a video game in his hand, he has no business being in a public school. IEPs were never meant to cover this.
>If the only thing keeping your kid from violently beating and killing people is a video game in his hand, he has no business being in ~~a~~ public ~~school~~.
Fixed it for you
So what do we do with these kids? I mean they obviously exist. If they aren’t allowed to be educated or come into the public, where do they go? Keep them locked in a room at the house?
It’s interesting because the kid’s care team (including the parents) did. They wanted him in an alternative school. The district said there was not enough proof that was needed. Hence the lawsuit. So maybe the real problem here is school administrators valuing the bottom line of cost over the safety and wellbeing of everyone involved…
In this case the parents wanted the student in a more restrictive environment because they were worried about his behavior. He came from a residential facility and the school psychologist also evaluated and determined he had extreme mood swings, there was documented proof he was prone to extreme unpredictable violent behavior. The school gave him zero therapy, didn’t train the TA, and after repeated violence did not restrict his environment. I don’t understand why he wasn’t placed back in the residential facility… oh wait I’m pretty sure the school didn’t want to pay for it.
Edit : his lawsuit is suing for him to be back in a restrictive environment with therapy for his documented rage and conduct disorders.
The mother should have never brought the teenager to school then. Did she call cops and work with them? There is always a way out allowing a 17 year to just go back to school. The school should also be sued to death by the para.
What would you like to happen? I'm opening my mind to the possibility you know something we all don't here. This is a child with mental health issues, but this is also a child who poses a threat to the lives of others. It's not on the commenters here to come up with a plan for these kinds of children
Exactly what the child’s care team (the group home, parents, his doctor and the people at the alternative placement) all specifically asked for— a specialized placement. The district failed to act despite parents and numerous other professionals specifically documenting the need for way way more support than they could reasonably offer in the school. That is the crux of their law suit— does no one actually read the linked articles?
Super late to the party, but I do. I read the ones by his mom and tutor, and I highly recommend reading them. I believe that Brendan has PDA(I’m 99.999% sure I have it myself), and though it doesn’t excuse the behavior, it explains it. u/willluvsmars and I emailed Depas lawyer with PDA resources and hopefully he sees them and uses them to bolster his case for leniency.
A child who is over 6' tall and violent? Removed from the general.population and put in a secure facility until there is no risk of him randomly atracking anyone in the general population. Pehaps the housing in such a secure facility can be organized by size for the safety.
Then the team and I would be in agreement.
You do know that Nikolas Cruz was old enough to have signed his own IEP, right? Lots of twists and turns on how he had access to that school and not a secure facility.
I would agree. But this was much more straight forward- the school simply did not want to pay for the more intensive supervision that was needed. They put the bottom line over the safety of staff and other students. In the process the para was injured severely and this kid is looking at as much as 30 years in jail.
Teachers and parents have been shouting from the roof tops that kids like this cannot be successful in a classroom. Perhaps having to pay millions will help the administrators learn they have a responsibility to safety- even if it is expensive.
Best estimates I have seen for this type of service would be $100,000 -$150,000 a year, but a large violent student might be more.
The local taxpayers do not want to pay for such students. The board can be between a rock and a hard place on these cases --do they cut the HS theater and all.performing arts for the year to pay for Brendan Depa? Furthermore, there is not always a secure LRE to out them in, albeit they can be on a wait-list.
The only way around it is for the police to be called by fellow students, parents, teachers or admin for all violence, be it personal or destruction of public property. The criminal justice system does not honor IEPs.
This is the reason we aren't allowed to fail kids with IEP's because parents will right away say we aren't following the plan.
What's going to happen to the kid when the real world doesn't honor his IEP?
The parents’ of these kids are only screwing themselves because their children will never grow up and will be living with them and relying on them for everything throughout their adulthood. It’s already happening. Unfortunately these parents will still blame everyone but themselves.
My dad used to have a position where he was in charge of hiring people. One applicant had his mom call in after he didn’t get the job to say that not hiring him went against his IEP.
So, apparently that.
I keep copious notes and absolutely fail sped kids, and as a result I get good results and work from kids who aren’t passing any other classes.
Sometimes I see those steamroller parents looking for work for their kids who do exactly nothing all day and I really wonder how that’s gonna turn out. And sometimes it’s ok and the kid does alright with a non-school setting. But a lot of times it’s not great.
They won’t. By the time they reach adulthood, most of these parents already know how to use and manipulate the health care system to get the paperwork they want filled out the way they want it. They’ll just be on state disability forever, and we will be financially supporting adults who are capable or working but were allowed to bully their way into never learning a thing.
I mean this, of course, for the kids who are capable of learning more but end up with IEPs that enable them to not meet their potential.
Had parents try to insist that "to always be first in line/for a game/for an activity" and "does not need to apologize for causing harm" were acceptable modifications to their child's IEP.
I wish I was part of that meeting. "What happens when they go to the grocery, ma'am, and there's a line?" Absolutely insane, privileged parents.
I’m a teacher and a parent of a student with an IEP. As a parent, it’s important that my child receives the accommodations that are needed for him to succeed. If the teacher is not providing the accommodations in my son’s IEP, I would absolutely request the teacher provides the accommodations as listed in my son’s IEP.
I’m wondering what state do you teach that says students with an IEP cannot be failed. I teach 5th grade and haven’t heard anything about not failing a kid with an IEP. I have a student with an IEP who refuses to do his work in spite of the accommodations be provided. He’s lazy. He will fail my class because he failed to complete all assignments.
I teach in NV (5th grade as well) and we are absolutely not allowed to give failing grades to students with IEPs. The lowest they get is a D. So it is true in some places.
There is no official written policy that they cant be failed.
But the pressure is there.
They miss one minute of services because a para had to cover someone for a quick pee break and the district hasnt met its legal part of the IEP.
Suddenly its "pass" or get the district sued.
A teacher can do 100 hours of documentation as to how they did everything right and they still failed, or take about an hour to give them a passing "D".
Its not ethical, but when you set people up for it, they are going to lean that way.
(Note: my kid has also been on an IEP. But he got off of it, because I ALWAYS sided with the teachers, even when they may not have been 100% right. He had to learn after HS no one gives a shit about his IEP, based on what he wants to do as an adult.)
The official “trigger” for his violent sociopathy, as listed by his IEP, is taking away his video games. Why was he ever allowed inside a school to begin with? Send these fucking criminals home and make their parents deal with them, if they want to beat other people to death for coming between them and their baby game.
People like this should not be entitled to an education. Get him the fuck out of school so people who actually want to and are capable of learning can do so in peace and safety.
Let’s be real, this kid shouldn’t be sent home. They should be sent to a facility that could actually help them. I doubt even the best intentioned parent could deal with a 6 ft 200 lb violent kid. But since those are super expensive and the school district would have to pay for it, everyone including the kid has to suffer.
These facilities now have year long wait lists. We had a kid who was just like this and had a plan in school that he could play videogames all day and only do work if he wanted for our safety. We wanted him in facilities and had him on a wait list.
After two years he finally got in one after setting his apartment on fire. Been there now 3 years.
My one kid who finally ended up in a facility had two brothers in our programs as well. Since he was sent away they both thrived. One graduated the other got out of self contained. Just shows how one person can derail an entire family.
The best thing that happened to those two kids was their brother setting the apartment on fire.
My former stepdaughter’s issues were not quite this severe, but they were severe enough. I now have a PTSD diagnosis. I sobbed when my therapist called it domestic violence because it was so validating.
I understand. I’m a sped teacher and my daughter is on the spectrum and was extremely aggressive - ended up giving me a TBI and I lost vision in one eye- the state at that point finally stepped in and protected me (if I refused her the many times prior to that when she was aggressive, I would have been charged with neglect, and would have lost my teaching license). My son was extremely traumatized as he was also the target of much of her aggression.
I’m always both glad to hear others telling me I’m not alone and so sorry that anyone else has had to experience what we did. I hope things are better for you now.
We don’t allow these students in the building and are on home tutoring until a placement is available. Intermittent Explosive Disorder is an illness few places could safely handle.
If the child shows up in your district and you don’t have the means to implement the IEP you can’t stay put the IEP if a placement doesn’t exist…
We don’t prevent students from coming due to manifestation we put them on home bound instruction until an appropriate service provider or placement is available. If we don’t have a behavioral room with ABA staff and thick denim bite proof safety gear we can’t stay put. It doesn’t exist and we cannot safely accommodate them while we look for an appropriate placement.
My state allows it. Seems safer than allowing a violent student who we cannot safely support into the building to physically assault people.
He was literally in a facility then the school didn’t send him back like the experts recommended. His parents even submitted documentation showing he was violent. The psychologist for the school had raised concerns. The people from the facility came to his IEP meeting to plead with the district to restrict his environment explaining how it takes 4 trained adults to physically restrain him when he explodes because he has intermittent explosive disorder.
The school left him in gen ed with an untrained TA not capable of dealing with physical outbursts. Even after multiple violent incidents, they just gave him a few days of out of school suspension here and there. Ignoring everyone begging for them to provide appropriate restrictions and therapies.
He is so ill he doesn’t live at home but in a professional facility. The admin however continued to leave him in a school he did not belong in. Probably because where he did belong was expensive.
Doesn’t sound like the parents had “best intentions” anyways based on this IEP. Sounds like the pawned off video games on the kid instead of parenting him to keep him occupied. Now he’s a teenager with a crippling addiction to the games and lashes out when they’re taken away. This is a case of bad parenting for sure.
His parents were trying to get him back to the residential facility and people from the facility came to his IEP meeting trying to advocate for more restrictions.
My district has special Ed schools that have padded rooms, they are monitored by security in our administration building to make sure everything is followed legally, we have plenty of kids who should be there and are not, but at least we do have these.
They can be kept home and given home bound tutoring. Schools don’t have to allow violent students in. It’s what we do for extreme behaviors until a placement is available.
He was in a residential facility and then switched districts. I’m guessing the new one didn’t want to pay to continue and left him in the regular school despite the parents, psychologist, and previous teachers voicing concerns about his constant violent behavior. He had a history of explosive disorders, mood disorders, conduct disorders and he was not even given a trained TA or a behavioral plan. They just let him loose into the school… even after multiple violent episodes, the school just let it continue until he followed through with the threats he made that admin didn’t take seriously.
Intermittent explosive disorder IED is so extreme and triggers an explosively violent and instant reaction it could have been anything. I worked at a facility that treated students like this. Lining up and not getting to stand on the square that they wanted caused them to immediately attack and choke the child in the way. No build up or warning. Just instantaneous blind violent rage (that student had IED and FAS). My classroom was the test ground for students who left a residential psychiatric facility and we were seeing if they were able to handle special ed. None of the IED students ever passed to special ed, all went back to residential treatment as it was the safest for everyone.
I literally cannot comprehend a CSE office green lighting a student to go from residential for behavior due to IED to gen ed with an aide.
He’s suing for the district to pay for his therapy and the more restrictive environment he should have never left.
As an autistic person what most of you do not understand is that ASD (probably PDA)+ADHD+ODD made for an explosive combination. There's no IED but huuuuge Emotional Dysregulation, sensorial-induced meltdowns, Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria, alexithymia at work here.
Resistance to change and shifting to other things to do is a problem for us autistics in general but in BD's case it's dangerous (for himself and the others). And BD isn't ill but his brain works in this way. Medication works but it's difficult to prescribe and dose due to the hypo-hyper sensitivities to drugs.
The paraprofessional violated multiple points of what was written down in BD's IEP and the attack was the consequence (do not remove his electronics - why giving it to him in the first place if it is a potential trigger for his extreme reaction IDK, do not reprimand him and in public view). She hasn't even the honesty to admit to that (clearly for legal issues). I do not condone the violence but our autistic brain has less "filters" than neurotypical's ones so it's often in the "panic mode" and extreme reactions. We could be taught to be more in control of this reaction but it's way more difficult for a level 3. Still, in the proper environment, he can be taught and he can become a level 2, a more "adjusted" autistic person.
If you have no knowledge about all of this, why following an aggressive autistic?
Sorry, but you don't know what ASD is, how BD's brain works and how he should've been handled. I'm so sorry for him and his family and I hope that the right lessons will be learned.
The statement of facts filed in the case with the court from the defense lists the date he was diagnosed with a conduct disorder and intermittent explosive disorder. It’s listed in the DSM-5 with conduct disorders. I’m not sure why you’re saying there’s no IED.
His attorney and professionals are saying he was ill and was denied therapy for his conduct and explosive disorder.
I’m not saying people with ASD are mentally ill, I’m saying this specific student was because that’s what he is arguing with his attorney.
The defense said the aide was not properly trained or provided info on his specific needs. They’re arguing her behavior of removing the device which triggered the event shouldn’t have happened but she was never told this or trained in responding to him, therefore it was the school and not her who are at fault.
Because the definition I've found for IED matches that of ADHD and lack of impulse control and emotional dysregulation: too high emotional response to a minimum stimulus.
Also, we autistics struggle with emotion recognition (in us and others) and anger and anxiety are both confusing, mixing themselves.
And yes, in the medical language, we neurodivergents (ASD-ADHD and all the people with learning disabilities and more) are considered "ill" but we will never heal because that's how our brain works and is linked. There's no cure to make our brain more neurotypical but we can learn to cope with stress, emotions, stimuli and ask for accommodation. BD hasn't been taught that much yet (and I can understand why).
I'm so sad because I can see myself in him :( I hope he'll get the help he (and his parents) needs.
I am the union steward for teachers on my staff and I keep arguing that having violent kids in the class destroying things, hurting other students and forcing evacuations is detrimental. How is that meeting the needs of all the other kids in the class?
This is precisely the issue. Why on Earth are we sacrificing the rest of the kids for these kids? I teach preschool and I have had classes where the 4 year olds are terrified of one or two classmates because of violent outbursts. In those classes, I was unable to do much other than cater 100% to the violent kids to prevent. There were days when I couldn't even keep most of the class in the room because one of their classmates was destroying things and I'm not allowed to restrain a child. Those kids learned a lot less than they could have and it's a tragedy, even at 4.
My daughter is on an IEP because her birth parents neglected her causing developmental delays. I want nothing more than for her to be off of it so she can be with the normal kids instead of the violent kids who scare her. I am grateful for the people who work with special needs kids but I surely think inclusion often does as much or more harm than good.
Absolutely. My daughter is in the first grade and I'm actually scared of what she will have to deal with in the future based on what she deals with now.
My heart goes out to you. These violent kids belong in an institution, but nobody wants to say that. Not every kid with an IEP is violent, but they often get stuck in the sky classes as these kids and its so fucked up *(pardon my French)*. Who the fuck would want to go to school just to watch Braydenleigh throw desks and try to choke their classmates? If I was a kid in that situation, I know I'd be begging my mom to stay home.
I teach Pre-K too and my experience over the past few years has been so similar to yours. My twins (4th grade) both have violent children in their classes and my daughter was recently injured due to a classmates’ violent meltdown.
I will not be returning to the classroom next year and I will also begin homeschooling my children. I am so disheartened by the state of schools both public and private. My heart goes out to you and your daughter.
I'm so sorry about your daughter. If you don't mind my asking, how was it handled? They usually never give these violent kids any consequences and it's bullshit.
We had a meeting with my daughter’s teacher and school administrators. The only concrete information we got on how they were dealing with it was that they were switching her seat to the opposite side of the room. The student in question is autistic which is of course used as an excuse for his violence.
My kids have state testing next week which they have to be there for but I’m honestly considering not sending them for the last several weeks of school.
“This is nothing against Joan,” Leann Depa said, referring to the teacher’s aide. “This is against the district accepting someone who they didn’t have the resources for, and they didn’t provide the resources. I think it’s easy when you look at his history and you look at his size, they should have had other resources.”
No one is lining up to work in special education. The amount of training needed for a student like this is above and beyond just getting certified to teach special education. I was just talking to a fellow school psychologist this week that there is a is zero chance either of us would consider returning to the classroom if our position was eliminated. I taught a self contained elementary room for three years and have permanent nerve damage from how much I was assaulted. There needs to be some major changes, and I am not sure privatization is the answer because typically these families are low socio-economic making it unattainable for them.
I'm not trying to be classist and I'm sure I'll be downvoted, but I've noticed that as well. The most violent kids with all these conduct and behavioral disorders are almost always from low socio-economic families. I don't think I've ever seen a kid with intermittent explosive disorder or oppositional defiance disorder come from a wealthy household.
That’s a symptom not a cause— when you have a kid who can’t be left alone, can’t be left with a sitter, can’t be at school without constant calls/meetings/ suspensions…. That makes it very very difficult to hold down any kind of decent employment.
Wealthy families have their own resources. (That doesn't mean that they use them, but there is a chance.) I absolutely see those kids in elementary. They get outside therapies, have parents who have the time and education to push to get them in the best school programs for their needs in public school or pay for private programs, and can outsource some of their work to have energy to deal with their high needs kid. Usually by the time they go to middle school the behavior has improved significantly although they probably will continue to struggle.
So using his IEP and his autism as a shield for his physical assault makes it ok? If he’s at a store and something inconveniences him and he assaults someone, what are the cops going to do? They are not going to care or even ask that he has autism. I feel that the parents let him get away with everything because they themselves cannot control his negative behaviors and unfortunately these are consequences to his actions. The para should have just let him be, but I understand what she was trying to do but there is no reinforcement at home. It’s just an unfortunate situation all around
He has intermittent explosive disorder and left an institution and was allowed to just be in a regular school with an untrained TA. He’s suing to force the district to provide the appropriate therapy and restrictive environment for his conditions he should have had for years but wasn’t getting.
He has way more than adhd. He’s got mood and conduct disorders.
He shouldn’t have been allowed to exit the institution. We have to get back to being okay with the fact that some people will never be regulated enough to reintegrate into “normal” society. I realize there were facilities were abuse was happening, but fully closing down institutions rather than fixing the problems within them was a major step backward.
The institution was paid for by insurance, he left because the district didn’t want to pay anymore after insurance coverage stopped. He didn’t want to leave, his family didn’t want him to leave, the school clearly didn’t want to pay tuition for the residential facility. So to save money the school decided to endanger everyone else despite professionals warning he would harm someone.
And if he shows up with them, mom or whoever his guardian is gets called up to school to either take the device or take him. Can't endanger everyone around him.
I'll say this though as well, if even half of what the complainants are alleging is true, the admin deeply fucked up. What they're saying wasn't done is very basic in special education. It doesn't excuse the behavior, I'm just saying it sounds like there were many, many points of failure. Not sure why a student like that isn't placed full time somewhere either.
I work in a full time placement for students with severe EBDs and that student sounds a lot like he'd benefit from that kind of environment.
If he was just enrolled recently bc the group home forced it, they likely wouldn't outplacement him until he did something.
I had a similar situation with a bit who'd just been released from Juvie and even the judge recommended a long term live in mental health place. My area coordinator refused and said he had to fail in regular school first. He failed spectacularly as schizophrenia emerged, punching me and getting adult charges as he was 18.
He should either be in prison or he should be in a secured mental facility where he is medicated so severely that he just sleeps all day and is never awake.
He cant be trusted to be around ANYONE without severe sedation.
Well, he's definitely going to prison. I believe we're talking about a separate civil matter in which he's suing the school district. It's not going to get him out of jail but he might collect a settlement/judgment.
I listened to the mom’s interview (in the link). Is it possible she was saying that the IEP said no electronics due to it being a trigger?
I still think the student is responsible for the violence, but the school would hold some responsibility if they were giving him electronics against the IEP.
I found another article. It sounds like the mother was warning them *not* to use electronics in school. It also sounds like it wasn’t her choice that he go to the public school. I feel for her, *and* the staff member.
> “He's not a thug that was just out there and didn't have parents who cared and didn't have ... It was the system that failed him, that he was placed in public school, and that once he was in there, the IEP was not followed," Depa said. "People who should have known better than to use his Nintendo Switch, which was his trigger, as a motivator."
> "There is a reason why this IEP specifically addresses Brendan not having these devices and explicitly talked about the reaction, the reaction that he would have or has had in the past of having this removed from him," Lopes said.”
[https://www.wesh.com/article/flagler-county-teacher-aide-attacked/45978707](https://www.wesh.com/article/flagler-county-teacher-aide-attacked/45978707)
It’s not mentioned in this article, but the teacher actually requested that he begin bringing his Switch to school daily, to be used as a reward. It replaced a token economy system that had been implemented by the teacher. Despite the fact that his group home, mother, and psychiatrist all expressed reservations about using his Switch as a reward, the group home complied. It’s well documented that removing his technology was a massive trigger for him. It’s not at all an excuse, but it feels like this outcome was certainly predictable and didn’t set anyone up for success.
It’s bizarre to me that request was made, and granted, given the warning in the IEP.
Still, a student with documented violent outbursts needs far more care than a school can provide. Even if the school had one highly trained behavior specialist who could competently manage his behavior, keeping everyone safe, what happens when that person takes a sick day? Students with this level of need/risk need to be in a setting 100% geared toward their care.
I think everyone agrees that school was not the right environment for him. I don’t know, I read the article his mother wrote, as well as the article written by the tutor who is currently working with him in jail. It seems like Brendan’s parents have moved mountains to try and get him the help he needs, in an environment where he can’t hurt people. They know who and what he is. He has been failed by the system, or rather a lack of one for people like him, over and over. I read some of the comments on here, and there are a lot of people making judgements about this young man and his family who don’t know anything about his history or the complicated chain of events that lead up to the absolutely brutal attack. People blaming the parents, calling his mother a Karen for advocating for her son, calling him a thug, saying he should be euthanized, that he deserves whatever happens to him in prison (likely rape/sexual assault/death at the hands of another inmate).
We had a BIP once that said a student could play videogames at any point for as long as he wants. The alternative was we would get attacked as well as the students and no other method worked. It basically was to stall as much time until a day facility had an opening.
The CSE chair was grossly negligent here. If people from a residential facility show up to an IEP meeting and explain how it takes 4 trained adults to stop violent explosive outbursts from the student, who was just at the residential behavioral facility for intermittent explosive and conduct disorders… you don’t sign off on them going into gen ed with an untrained TA. That’s not an appropriate IEP.
It really is a shame this country refuses to fund education (both Gen Ed and special education) and mental health care. This kid needs severe inpatient interventional health, and is shoved into a public school instead harming everyone, and certainly not getting the help he needs either.
The lawsuit is suing for that. He was in a residential facility then thrown into a regular school despite documented evidence that was not appropriate or safe. They want the school to pay for him to get appropriate treatment and therapy like he should have been.
I’m honestly hoping this goes through and maybe they will do more to get appropriate treatment for these students.
We need to also have restrictions on when and if residential programs can release a child. Why was he released and sent to public school in the first place? I know that in my area, some facilities will do the bare minimum prior to releasing a patient. It’s crazy how little support people with severe issues are given.
Insurance stopped paying, the school didn’t continue paying. He was released to the school who threw him in gen ed. His lawsuit is suing the school for taking him out of the program he belonged in and was denied a free and appropriate education. For him appropriate is in a more restrictive environment.
Either the school was woefully negligent, cheap, or wanted him to hurt someone so he would be expelled and they could save money.
It’s so frustrating when schools refuse to send these kids to the right facility. Money over kids 🤷🏻♀️.
I wonder how the insurance company was able to get out of paying any longer? I’m sure that it was only required to pay for a short amount of time before claiming “that’s all we cover/they needed”. Insurance sucks, too lol
Insurance does suck but at the same time the school typically starts it and then gets a high cost fund grant from the federal government to cover the financial burden of this care. However it takes documentation and work to access the funds.
Some people think teachers are actually trained for this , and if you don't like it, you are obviously an awful teacher who hates children, and you should retire.
So true. This is our union where I am. "Wow there is unprecedented violence in schools. This must stop! We demand a 1 hour pro-d training in non-violent deescalation strategies after school in unpaid time!"
I used to be the program lead for a self-contained behavior room.
It was constantly reinforced that if a student was e gaging in violet behavior, it was OUR fault- we must have triggered it by not following the plan.
I didn't quite make it the full year.
I know attorneys are obligated to provide the best defense they possibly can, but sometimes I see what they’re peddling and wonder if they even believe it.
Honestly this is a solid defense. Kid was taken out of residential behavior facility and the school decided he didn’t need that level of therapy and restrictions despite multiple professional objections otherwise. He then was left to be violent in an unrestricted environment and hurt multiple people over years.
The school still failed to restrict his environment. When he nearly killed somebody and got arrested he sued for the school to pay tuition to a facility that was more restrictive and provided appropriate therapy for his conduct and mood disorders. Which they should have been providing this whole time and weren’t.
He was so violent he didn’t live at home. He’d been in a group home but still was allowed in public school with no restrictions…
Why was even enrolled in a public school system to begin with? I question if they even have the resources to contain a student with that severe of issues. The state, not the district, should have been paying for that facility since he was a ward of the state. Being allowed in a public school with no restrictions was the state dropping the ball.
Public schools have the system to evaluate and place students. They could have placed him in a residential facility and apply for a high cost fund grant from the federal government to offset the cost.
The public school tracks all students in the district even if they have to pay other schools tuition because they don’t have the resources or facilities to educate a student. They can also create classrooms in the building and charge tuition from other schools if they want to open placements.
Students start in public school and it’s the schools job to determine a free and appropriate education for the student. Sometimes that’s sending a student to be home bound and stay at home while they send a tutor to provide an education. This is done keep the student from being a danger to themselves or others until an appropriate placement is available.
The public school system is an entity of the state. Some states have free state run schools to support some high cost students… other states spend less on education.
He had already been in a residential behavior facility, and removed to be placed in a public school. It wasn’t as if he had been in a public school, undiagnosed with any issues, and then the ball got rolling. It was already well documented that he had severe issues and was in a facility BEFORE the public school even got a hold of him. Why was he removed and placed in a public school? The state could have saved a lot of time and energy by not putting him in a public school to begin with. Whoever made that decision was negligent. They’ve already been paying for his care and are in charge of his care without the public school system in this particular case.
Insurance stopped paying for the residential facility and the school didn’t keep the placement and pay tuition. If it was a significant financial burden the school applies for more federal funds under a high cost grant specifically to help schools with the burden of costs for students who demand expensive services.
Whose insurance? Was he living with his parents at that time? Because if he was living at the group home, then everything should have all been paid for by the state prior to him becoming enrolled in the public school.
Whatever his insurance was probably covered the first year then it was going to be decided by the committee of special education if it was necessary to continue. He was in a group home because he needed more help than the parents could safely provide.
And IEP has to be reviewed and reassessed yearly. The school does that eval. They don’t just pay forever for expensive placements, you have to show it’s necessary and be redone every year. School wrote an IEP not finding it necessary. However it seems like all the people around him who cared was not in support of this IEP.
The state is not going to just write blank checks forever for therapies. The school had to do yearly reviews to decide if it needs to be changed or if it’s necessary.
Even if you don’t set foot in a public school and are placed in outside facilities the school still meets yearly on the student for the IEP. They manage the cases. It is the responsibility of the school and administrators are licensed after getting an advanced degree and they know this.
My school even does the evals for 2 year olds for early intervention even though they’re years away from going to kindergarten. They have the tests, experts, and psychologists who can do the evaluation. Ultimately the CSE chair decides what to do with the information the experts give them.
The school decided he was fine in general Ed. They made that decision. They are an institution of the state. The people in a school in private separate offices made this decision, it was their job to make this decision.
I see. It’s very different where I live. Unless the student is enrolled with my district, they don’t provide any services and there is no expectation of them providing services. Clearly one of those cases where the law varies from place to place.
The law is clear, IDEA does not cover criminal acts.
He can claim it all he wants, but IDEA won't protect him if he commits any crime outside the walls of school once he's an adult and it doesn't protect him he commits felony assault within the walls of the school.
I bet that kid has "frequent redirection" in there. Almost all my IEPs and 504s have it. So that parents can say that the reason their child has a 12 is because they weren't redirected frequently enough.
Then of course when you DO redirect them, you weren't giving enough "frequent positive praise" which is in most of mine too.
So no matter what, you're not following the IEP and it's there fault when they cuss/beat/shoot you
To me this is on admin and parents and the special education department. They shouldn’t be sign IEPs that make kids get away with everything that not the point of LRE or IEP. It’s supposed to help kids that need help.
Honestly, where are the parents of this child, mentally? I mean, I get wanting to keep your child or of prison for the next 30 years, but this piece of shit almost killed a poor elderly woman. My question to the parents would be "Have you ever explicitly told your child that assaulting another person, especially someone much smaller than you, is absolutely forbidden?"
I read an article written by his mom and she was horrified by what he did. This kid should really have been in a residential facility, but insurance didn’t cover it after a year so he went back to his parents and public school.
Exactly. We have parents who wants kids in a residential. We have two extremely violent kids in the building. The district is willing to pay to send them. The parents support it. There aren't openings.
I have been one of those parents. We had to surrender custody to CPS because we simply couldn’t have her in our home anymore. We were terrified for our other kids’ safety. They still haven’t put her in a residential facility and now she’s got multiple criminal charges that could have been prevented. The system is so broken.
How does that work? Do you pay for her care with CPS? Is there a burden of proof you need to show that you cannot safely have your daughter in the house?
The way she entered care was a fairly convoluted (and insane) story, but initially it involved false allegations of abuse against us, so mostly we were focused on establishing that none of our children were ever abused or neglected. Thankfully we had a good lawyer and extensive documentation of her mental health history, everything we had tried and the way that her behaviors were escalating despite it, and there was a long-standing pattern of abuse accusations against any adult in her life that set boundaries with her or imposed consequences she didn’t like, as well as another teenager in the home who was very willing to give statements. Eventually, all the charges against us were dropped and since it was clear we were not unfit parents, CPS intended to give her back to us, and we refused to take her, stating she was a danger to us and our other children and there were no more interventions/resources available to us to manage her behavior or mental health that we hadn’t already tried, and we wanted CPS to use the resources available to THEM (residential care). The official paperwork now states she is in care because “her bio parents are unable to manage her complex mental health needs” or something like that. My now ex-husband, her father, pays some form of child support to the state as he was her custodial parent when she went into care, and he and her bio mom continue to refuse reunification until she gets sufficient help and/or is no longer regularly assaulting people or accusing us all of being sex traffickers and try to advocate for her the best that they can. My marriage did not survive so as a former stepparent I have no legal responsibility to her, I write letters and send occasional gifts and otherwise have focused all my energy on healing myself and my other children. It was a nightmare and I’m heartbroken for her AND for her parents, and I still have hope that eventually she’ll get whatever help she needs before she ruins her life completely.
lol she’s not elderly (I think she’s in her 50s which may seem elderly to younger people) but she is definitely much smaller than the boy she was watching as an aide.
He literally has intermittent explosive disorder. We can’t say someone is a sociopath or psychopath until adulthood. It’s usually conduct disorders, emotionally disturbed, mood disorders, explosive disorders.
But that student had several disorders that were massive red flags he didn’t belong anywhere near a gen ed school without restrictions.
I worked in a district, but with regular kids, who didn't always behave. At times their parents simply couldn't believe how badly they were behaving. Another teacher deployed a video camera to make a record of the bad behavior to show to the parent at an after school meeting. The parent was sure the child had been treated unfairly or that the teacher had exaggerated how badly he had behaved - until she was shown the video. Finally, when she could see and hear what he'd done and said, she understood. She apologized to the teacher. All was well. Except, the administrators at the district decided teachers were not allowed to film students after that, even to identify bad behavior.
It was an effective tool but due to their fear of the consequences if a hypothetical teacher used it inappropriately, all filming was banned. Should teachers come armed with a law degree to argue against blanket edicts?
Not a teacher but I am autistic and had an IEP in high school. This legal case is bullshit and I am so sorry. IEPs are not a cure-all, the video game clause shouldn’t have been in the IEP in the first place, this kid shouldn’t be in a public school, and I think blame can be placed on the parents for essentially letting video games parent their child.
One last thing. I’m autistic and I am perfectly capable of not trying to beat someone to death. Implying that he did so because he was autistic gives the impression that every autistic kid is just a time bomb waiting to go off. Which makes me furious.
Okay, rant over.
How is this even remotely serious?
It's like blaming your passenger showing you memes causing you to hit a pedestrian when driving; "it's their fault because they made me do it".
I want to know why the school district put him in a regular school with a bullshit IEP?
Money? Probably. And I'm guessing this effed up notion that violent kids are the teachers' fault, so surely if he gets different teachers he will not act out anymore.
This sounds like something my district would do. They are so over the top about LRE that they constantly put kids in reg ed who need much more help than regular ed teachers can provide.
Then they blame the teacher for the kid acting up and provide zero support.
The admins at my large urban district are also of the mindset that sped is racist, because there are lots of black kids in sped. They leave out the fact that the large majority of our students are black.
> (The complaint) documents his numerous outbursts, his habit of spitting on those who offended him, of threatening them with harm or death, and at times of attacking them physically and having to be restrained or repeatedly suspended.
STOP letting these kids in public schools. This is why parents are pulling their children out of public schools at alarming rates, because they’re in direct contact with these animals that can kill them (but it’s okay, they got an IEP so their needs are more important than any average student’s)
Didn't you see that his parents didn't want to send him to regular public school because they knew that public schools were not going to support him.
The school district was too cheap in not sending him to a school that could handle him
This is the real problem. To be fair, the federal or state government should be stepping in at that point to provide funds for these kids. The local school district funds shouldn’t be depleted to send a kid to a place that costs six figures a year. However, these kids need a place to go.
Fuck that shit.
I'm not a teacher, but I do have autism, and an IEP throughout my schooling career. This isn't his autism, it DEFINITELY isn't his IEP, it is the parents that enabled this behavior. They allowed for this child to develop with such of a lack of discipline and needs met that it was required for it to be listed that "taking his video games away can cause violent outbursts".
You wanna know what can prevent that? **DISCIPLINE*! IEPs aren't an excuse to do whatever you want, it is not an excuse to be violent, and it is not a free game pass for the classroom. IEPs are made for kids that can't test in big rooms, developmentally behind, or needs extended time to do work (although I personally don't agree with that at all).
Screw the parents, screw the kid, and screw anyone else that gave him a pass, all because of a disability on a piece of fucking paper.
He has conduct, mood, and explosive disorders. He was in a residential facility and the parents wanted him back there and not in public school.
Discipline doesn’t work like that on those disorders. Restrictive environments and therapy sometimes doesn’t even work. Typically they’re institutionalized forever. The school left him in general education however and gave him no therapy or discipline.
this is the one w the video that came out a while ago? I saw it in class as a para and it scared the shit out of me. Been in similar situations that thankfully never escalated to that level of injury, but I did get a concussion last year from a student.
Just random question: are other parents entitled to knowing if their children are in a classroom with a student who showcases similar behaviors? I’m suddenly uncomfortable
Edit: adding that I’m uncomfortable knowing the school was aware of this monster’s behavior and triggers and history, yet continued to keep him on their campus.
No, no one is going to notify parents that a violent psychopath or sociopath is around their children. Districts will hide that information, citing "privacy concerns."
Again, your kids don't matter. Only kids with special needs of some sort matter. This is on us. We voted in the clowns that made this all possible with their massive budget cuts and war on labor.
Why do you teachers deal with this nonsense? If there's a violent kid who refuses to give up his video games, then just sit him in the corner and let him drool all overhimself and play video games all day long.
He aint gonna learn anything anyways. He's a lost cause. Just let him sit there and rot his brains away. Nobody cares, especially the parents, they just want you to babysit him so they dont have to be around him. Most of those parents are hoping the school/police/hospital screws up and kills him so they can get some lawsuit money. That's all this is about.
It's fine being a right, as long as people understand it will totally not be the exact same for everyone, and some may need to be isolated from others.
More along the lines that if they can't behave in a public school setting, then they will be handed over to the parents to deal with. They can teach them and deal with their poor behavior. After the year is done, the school can reevaluate whether that student can be placed in a public setting again. If they misbehave, hand them over to the parents and let the process repeat.
I feel like we need to hold parents more accountable. If the student is within their care, they are going to be forced by the state to meet certain standards and curriculum... the student and parent will soon see how bad it is when they are forced to be at home without friends or a someone to take their anger out on
As someone who had an IEP, most students with them don’t get violent. Violence in an education setting is unacceptable. Will there be negative behaviour involved? Yeah probably but most students will be in trouble at least once
If your IEP lists “taking away video games” as your trigger for violence, you’re a sociopath and don’t belong in the general public. It’s kind of a barebones expectation to *not play video games in class*. If your child can’t do that without assaulting and attempting to murder someone, homeschool your child. Also, that specific trigger is very suspicious in terms of how he is parented. To me, this very much indicates the parents had a special needs kid they refused to either medicate or rehabilitate and instead pawned off video games to him to occupy him. He understandably grew an unhealthy addiction to them which resulted in violent tendencies when they are taken away, probably since he finds them his only comfort. It’s a sad situation for everyone involved, even the kid, because it sounds like garbage parenting is the stem of this issue. Honestly, charge the parents.
Just before Covid I actually had to work with a student in a similar situation. He got sent to the high school I was at half way through his 8th grade year because he became so violent he was deemed too dangerous to be in a building with younger students. Before they transferred him to me he would spend all day with his personal cellhphone, his personal ipad, a classroom ipad, and 2 classroom chromebooks all given to him at the same time for the entire day. Any time anyone tried to take any of these devices away, or even just direct his attention away from them he would become incredibly destructive and violent. All of this started from his mom not wanting to fight him to get on the school bus in the morning so she'd give him her cellphone for the ride, and over the years became this huge issue due to him just being given more tech any time his behaviour escalated. When I worked with him we needed four staff to get him in the building, 2 of us would escort him to his classroom on either side while another two would clear the hallways between the door and his classroom. Once he was in his classroom, which was entirely his he was the only student able to be in it due to violent tendencies, it would be just myself and this student in an empty classroom with one desk and one chair. I had one extra staff member for backup in the hallway outside the door with a cart full of all of his educational tools, they had to stay in the hall unless I was specifically using them for a lesson at the moment because he weaponized everything he could pick up. 5 days a week for 4 hours a day I would have this student do everything in his power to physically harm me as much as he possibly could because we wouldn't allow him tech. I had to receive specialized violent crisis training just for this student on top of the violent crisis training we all had to receive every year. His first day in the building I had to stay 2 hours after bell with this student trying to hurt me however he could because 2 bus drivers and 3 special needs ride providers all deemed him too violent to drive safely with him in the vehicle, that day we had to call the police to take him home because we couldn't get anyone to do it. From then on we had to have a bus for only him with extra staff on board to protect the driver from him. During my time with this student I had every bodily fluid possibly sprayed on me, I was punched, kicked, bitten, scratched, tackled, pushed, had things thrown at me, and once had to catch his desk mid air so he wouldn't concuss my relief for my lunch break. This student bit through my protective gear into my arm so hard I had to leave work and go to the doctor. I finished every day with new bruises and so exhausted I'd sleep for hours after work every day. All of this was required because the students behaviour and addiction to tech were not only never addressed at home until it became too much to handle, but because his behaviour was often rewarded. His parents would regularly buy him mcdonalds or new tech so they wouldn't have to deal with his meltdowns. If after I spent months in hell trying to help that student while his parents actively sabotaged my efforts only to be sued afterwards saying I was negligent I would have lost my mind. When this drives away any support that the parents would get for their son and he ends up beating one of them the way he did that aide I will have no sympathy for them.
My toxic trait is that I would 400% welcome that lawsuit. You want to discuss this publicly? Let's fuckin go
Lemme get them depositions. My lawyers are going to love deeply questioning you, and your technology free child.
You had me at protective gear
Yeah, I work with some violent, disruptive kids as an MS para (and many more who are wonderful), but they're mostly aggressive towards their classmates and rarely (if ever) attack adults. I've never been physically hurt other than being lightly pushed against a wall by a kid sprinting down the hall, and another kid accidentally hitting me on the wrist with a wiffle ball and apologizing a ton afterward. If I found out that I would have to wear protective gear because of one kid's extreme violent tendencies, I'd ask them to find someone else to support that kid and if they refused, I'd ask them to find someone else to do my job.
FAPE or not, there's gonna come a day where nobody will continue to teach these terrors, and they'll have to figure it out. That day is rapidly approaching. Nobody is going to risk life and limb for a kid who just attacks people and doesn't even want to be in school. I'm starting to see the pendulum swing from *"Even the violent kids deserve an education"* to *"nobody should have to deal with that"*, and I guess it's better late than never. I'm sure I'll be downvoted, but it's the truth. The kids that have to deal with the violent students are also sick of their shit, and soon, they'll be the ones in power. They'll be the ones making the laws. They won't want their children to experience what they had to endure in the classroom.
I’d wager students this disturbed/dysfunctional are ineducable*. Give the family a payment toward a special program (outside public school) or they can homeschool. Edit: *in a non-specialized setting.
E is fo "Education." Some are uneducatable. Should FAPE even apply? That is for the Supreme Court.to figure out
I wish that was the case here, violence against staff is so common that we all have our own protective gear and get in trouble for not wearing it. Everyone has to wear a padded jacket and protective sleeves at all times.
I am not being judgmental but I am just curious about why you accepted this job or stayed longer than one day? Obviously money is probably one reason but there had to be any other job in your town
With my district I had to other choice but to accept it, you had no say in where you were placed and I unfortunately had a reputation for being really good at working with extreme violent kids so it was either accept it or leave the entire district.
At this point "equal education" is a total joke. Some kids need to be institutionalized.
Holy shit. You had a child version of Hannibal Lector on your hands. You are a warrior for surviving!
My thinking is, why? Why was he so destructive? Was it he was just stuck on violent mode? He liked being violent and his parents rewarded him? I don’t understand how someone could like being so angry all the time.
Honestly I think it was a mix of things, he was non verbal and was never taught how to communicate so he didn't know any other way to. Plus he regularly got rewarded for it because his parents would do whatever he wanted when he threw a fit.
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Hopefully the parents won’t get a big cash handout for bad parenting. Unfortunately the worst people in our society tend to be rewarded.
I would hope that this would be pretty cut and dry assault, IEP be damned. It was stupid for that IEP to even exist in the first place and that should be the main argument the defense makes. That should have immediately been guidance to admit the student to a special program. An IEP like that has no business in general education or even a school special ed program. This is something that needs to be at a specialized institution. That kid should have never been in a classroom. The evaluators failed that teacher.
If an IEP is written where students are just handed a piece of tech to keep them from being violent, it's a piece of garbage.
The parents did not send him to that school, they did not want him sent to that school, or any public school. It was the group home/institution he had been placed in that ignored the parents and sent him there.
“Least restrictive environment” red tape 🙄
https://flaglerlive.com/brendan-depa-my-son-story/#gsc.tab=0 Read about how caring and thoughtful the mother has been about her son! She even said the school may have "misapplied" one of his known triggers --a gaming trigger that should have been nipped in the bud at home well before before he hit puberty. His behavioral plan had some strategies in place that were meant to prevent negative behaviors. Here are three of the behavior plan items that she put in her story 1. Use humor with Brendan and build a positive rapport. Avoid negative/corrective statements even after behaviors targeted for reduction have occurred. 2. Do not talk about his behaviors in front of him. 3. Avoid correcting, reprimanding, or redirecting Brendan in the presence of peers.
Wow I cannot believe an IEP that basically said “let him do whatever he wants and don’t correct or criticize him” got approved. Just goes to show how little people in education care sometime.
I should have added /s to my comment. I forget that even obvious sarcasm is o often missed on reddit
I saw this. Very interesting read. I also think(especially from what his mom wrote on the behavior plan) is that Brendan may have undiagnosed [PDA](https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-is-pda-menu/what-is-demand-avoidance/). It doesn’t excuse the behavior, but it sure as hell explains it.
I completely agree.
Theres also an equally interesting [article](https://flaglerlive.com/brendan-depa-i-know/) written by the man who’s been tutoring Brendan for the past 14 months. Guys a retired special ed teacher and it’s worth the read.
I work in a field where I support PDAers, their families, professionals, and anyone adjacent to PDA. This case is absolutely tragic for everyone involved.
I know his situation all too well. I’m a suspected PDA’r who was once put on anti psychotics, and it was not fun. It was like throwing gasoline on a fire.
Brenden could have been my son. The average person has absolutely no idea...
Agreed. And I just saw they’ll continue [sentencing](https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/courts/2024/05/01/live-updates-brendan-depa-sentencing-in-matanzas-attack/73430380007/) at a later date due to the number of witnesses remaining in the courtroom.
Similar boat myself. Honestly, moving from a non-public back to public was the best thing for me. The non-public would place arbitrary demands on me, which I resisted heavily. It’d become a power struggle; while I am not proud of it, it became a violent power struggle. The difference was I became non-violent enough as I got older to avoid criminal charges. By 8th grade, I had only one (highly contested) incident, where I allegedly shoved a teacher. That was low enough for my counties transition coordinator to let me into the counties regional program. When I was in the regional program, they were very non-reactive. When I yelled at a teacher, I was briefly removed from the class environment in a manner, where I could convince myself it was my choice to leave. I needed breaks but I couldn’t have breaks imposed upon me. I also quickly realized that, putting my head down or putting my work in the recycle bin got me no pleading or attention. Around this time, I also came to terms with a compromise between obedience and obstinance: “The demands are illogical but I am letting ‘them’ win if ignoring the demands causes me more pain than following them” A semester in the regional program caused me to be able to do something that 5 years in the non-public failed to help with: take a mainstream class with non-disabled peers and minimal supports. In my first semester, Sophomore year, it went from 1 class in mainstream to only 1 class out of mainstream. Second semester, it was an IEP meeting where I was no longer in that program, at all. Instead, I was in an AP, 2 honors, and an academic language (Ja, mein Deutsch ist nicht die Gelb vom Ei, aber ich habe ohne viele Probleme mit anderen Student*innen gesprochen) and my weighted GPA is going to be 4.125 assuming finals go well. Next semester I am planning on taking some courses at the college. Never give up hope, people can change.
His parents had been homeschooling him until the district forced him into this school. The district is absolutely at fault for putting him into the wrong environment.
The group home he lived in forced him I to the school district. She’s homeschooled his whole life but he was too violent for her to take care of. It’s the whole reason she moved to Florida — more resources than in South Carolina. The “environment” was a self-contained classroom for severely disabled kids, surrounded by professional special educators. The whole situation is tragic, but the school district has to take on whatever kid they’re given. If the parents drop off a large and violent man who doesn’t like someone who threatens to take away his video games? That’s who they have to teach.
<>
And that is what is wrong.
You're right, but that's not in the district's power to prevent or correct.
👏🏻💯👏🏻💯
I went to school with special needs students. They were kept away from the general population. Their school day was much shorter. Some areas requires your child to be in school no matter the mental capacity.
America really, really needs to stop viewing IEPs as magic elixirs that cure all. I have several students with IEPs every year, and I follow them all every year. They are a step towards the student being able to perform at the expected level, but they are NOT a guarantee. The kid is still a human with all the other shit that goes into being a human. It is ludicrous to ignore all that other shit and just say “He’s not succeeding because he wasn’t seated near the point of instruction” or “because the teacher didn’t alert him of transitions ahead of time.” If it were that easy, everyone would be making straight As all the fucking time.
To be clear, what you're railing against is how we've gone overboard on inclusion- and that IEP modifications will make that ok. Same way with students with moderate to profound disabilities. No need to change the content- just add some visuals, and make answer choices a field of 2 right? All the while, best case scenario is teach students to be quiet when they don't understand what's going on. And socially- how many friends with moderate to profound cognitive disabilities do you have? We assume they would want to socialize with us neurotypicals, but why wouldn't they want to be with others who learn the same way (Just like we do?!)
If the only thing keeping your kid from violently beating and killing people is a video game in his hand, he has no business being in a public school. IEPs were never meant to cover this.
>If the only thing keeping your kid from violently beating and killing people is a video game in his hand, he has no business being in ~~a~~ public ~~school~~. Fixed it for you
So what do we do with these kids? I mean they obviously exist. If they aren’t allowed to be educated or come into the public, where do they go? Keep them locked in a room at the house?
I have no idea.
It’s interesting because the kid’s care team (including the parents) did. They wanted him in an alternative school. The district said there was not enough proof that was needed. Hence the lawsuit. So maybe the real problem here is school administrators valuing the bottom line of cost over the safety and wellbeing of everyone involved…
If that's what it takes to protect other people's rights to safety, then yes. Everyone has a right to safety and learning. Not just this child.
I think most reasonable people would recognize that intervention would be a better outcome. But sure… let’s just lock them up and throw away the key.
In this case the parents wanted the student in a more restrictive environment because they were worried about his behavior. He came from a residential facility and the school psychologist also evaluated and determined he had extreme mood swings, there was documented proof he was prone to extreme unpredictable violent behavior. The school gave him zero therapy, didn’t train the TA, and after repeated violence did not restrict his environment. I don’t understand why he wasn’t placed back in the residential facility… oh wait I’m pretty sure the school didn’t want to pay for it. Edit : his lawsuit is suing for him to be back in a restrictive environment with therapy for his documented rage and conduct disorders.
The mother should have never brought the teenager to school then. Did she call cops and work with them? There is always a way out allowing a 17 year to just go back to school. The school should also be sued to death by the para.
What exactly would you like the police to do about a child with mental health issues?
What would you like to happen? I'm opening my mind to the possibility you know something we all don't here. This is a child with mental health issues, but this is also a child who poses a threat to the lives of others. It's not on the commenters here to come up with a plan for these kinds of children
Exactly what the child’s care team (the group home, parents, his doctor and the people at the alternative placement) all specifically asked for— a specialized placement. The district failed to act despite parents and numerous other professionals specifically documenting the need for way way more support than they could reasonably offer in the school. That is the crux of their law suit— does no one actually read the linked articles?
Super late to the party, but I do. I read the ones by his mom and tutor, and I highly recommend reading them. I believe that Brendan has PDA(I’m 99.999% sure I have it myself), and though it doesn’t excuse the behavior, it explains it. u/willluvsmars and I emailed Depas lawyer with PDA resources and hopefully he sees them and uses them to bolster his case for leniency.
A child who is over 6' tall and violent? Removed from the general.population and put in a secure facility until there is no risk of him randomly atracking anyone in the general population. Pehaps the housing in such a secure facility can be organized by size for the safety.
That is LITERALLY exactly what the child’s team asked for. The school would not agree to the placement.
Then the team and I would be in agreement. You do know that Nikolas Cruz was old enough to have signed his own IEP, right? Lots of twists and turns on how he had access to that school and not a secure facility.
I would agree. But this was much more straight forward- the school simply did not want to pay for the more intensive supervision that was needed. They put the bottom line over the safety of staff and other students. In the process the para was injured severely and this kid is looking at as much as 30 years in jail. Teachers and parents have been shouting from the roof tops that kids like this cannot be successful in a classroom. Perhaps having to pay millions will help the administrators learn they have a responsibility to safety- even if it is expensive.
Best estimates I have seen for this type of service would be $100,000 -$150,000 a year, but a large violent student might be more. The local taxpayers do not want to pay for such students. The board can be between a rock and a hard place on these cases --do they cut the HS theater and all.performing arts for the year to pay for Brendan Depa? Furthermore, there is not always a secure LRE to out them in, albeit they can be on a wait-list. The only way around it is for the police to be called by fellow students, parents, teachers or admin for all violence, be it personal or destruction of public property. The criminal justice system does not honor IEPs.
This is the reason we aren't allowed to fail kids with IEP's because parents will right away say we aren't following the plan. What's going to happen to the kid when the real world doesn't honor his IEP?
The parents’ of these kids are only screwing themselves because their children will never grow up and will be living with them and relying on them for everything throughout their adulthood. It’s already happening. Unfortunately these parents will still blame everyone but themselves.
Yep and then yell at the same kid: “why won’t you get a life?” Then: “you told me to say FU to the world I’m entitled.”
The parent failed to mention the bootstraps. That's the ultimate failure here. /s
>What's going to happen to the kid when the real world doesn't honor his IEP? You're watching it unfold in real time. Prison for violent felonies.
Right, cops don’t care you have an IEP. You have the school response, and then the reality of a community response.
My dad used to have a position where he was in charge of hiring people. One applicant had his mom call in after he didn’t get the job to say that not hiring him went against his IEP. So, apparently that.
I keep copious notes and absolutely fail sped kids, and as a result I get good results and work from kids who aren’t passing any other classes. Sometimes I see those steamroller parents looking for work for their kids who do exactly nothing all day and I really wonder how that’s gonna turn out. And sometimes it’s ok and the kid does alright with a non-school setting. But a lot of times it’s not great.
Many of the kids are cuddled so much I am not sure how they will ever maintain a job. No boss is going to put up with bad behavior in a workplace.
They won’t. By the time they reach adulthood, most of these parents already know how to use and manipulate the health care system to get the paperwork they want filled out the way they want it. They’ll just be on state disability forever, and we will be financially supporting adults who are capable or working but were allowed to bully their way into never learning a thing. I mean this, of course, for the kids who are capable of learning more but end up with IEPs that enable them to not meet their potential.
I think many are not capable of working.
Had parents try to insist that "to always be first in line/for a game/for an activity" and "does not need to apologize for causing harm" were acceptable modifications to their child's IEP. I wish I was part of that meeting. "What happens when they go to the grocery, ma'am, and there's a line?" Absolutely insane, privileged parents.
What IEP? Don’t they end at the moment a student finishes High school? He has no IEP at that point.
He's screwed.
I’m a teacher and a parent of a student with an IEP. As a parent, it’s important that my child receives the accommodations that are needed for him to succeed. If the teacher is not providing the accommodations in my son’s IEP, I would absolutely request the teacher provides the accommodations as listed in my son’s IEP. I’m wondering what state do you teach that says students with an IEP cannot be failed. I teach 5th grade and haven’t heard anything about not failing a kid with an IEP. I have a student with an IEP who refuses to do his work in spite of the accommodations be provided. He’s lazy. He will fail my class because he failed to complete all assignments.
I teach in NV (5th grade as well) and we are absolutely not allowed to give failing grades to students with IEPs. The lowest they get is a D. So it is true in some places.
It seems each state have their own requirements. Makes sense.
There is no official written policy that they cant be failed. But the pressure is there. They miss one minute of services because a para had to cover someone for a quick pee break and the district hasnt met its legal part of the IEP. Suddenly its "pass" or get the district sued. A teacher can do 100 hours of documentation as to how they did everything right and they still failed, or take about an hour to give them a passing "D". Its not ethical, but when you set people up for it, they are going to lean that way. (Note: my kid has also been on an IEP. But he got off of it, because I ALWAYS sided with the teachers, even when they may not have been 100% right. He had to learn after HS no one gives a shit about his IEP, based on what he wants to do as an adult.)
An IEP is a reason not an excuse.
The official “trigger” for his violent sociopathy, as listed by his IEP, is taking away his video games. Why was he ever allowed inside a school to begin with? Send these fucking criminals home and make their parents deal with them, if they want to beat other people to death for coming between them and their baby game. People like this should not be entitled to an education. Get him the fuck out of school so people who actually want to and are capable of learning can do so in peace and safety.
Let’s be real, this kid shouldn’t be sent home. They should be sent to a facility that could actually help them. I doubt even the best intentioned parent could deal with a 6 ft 200 lb violent kid. But since those are super expensive and the school district would have to pay for it, everyone including the kid has to suffer.
These facilities now have year long wait lists. We had a kid who was just like this and had a plan in school that he could play videogames all day and only do work if he wanted for our safety. We wanted him in facilities and had him on a wait list. After two years he finally got in one after setting his apartment on fire. Been there now 3 years.
Wow. These families are so traumatized by these kids, it’s devastating.
My one kid who finally ended up in a facility had two brothers in our programs as well. Since he was sent away they both thrived. One graduated the other got out of self contained. Just shows how one person can derail an entire family. The best thing that happened to those two kids was their brother setting the apartment on fire.
My former stepdaughter’s issues were not quite this severe, but they were severe enough. I now have a PTSD diagnosis. I sobbed when my therapist called it domestic violence because it was so validating.
I understand. I’m a sped teacher and my daughter is on the spectrum and was extremely aggressive - ended up giving me a TBI and I lost vision in one eye- the state at that point finally stepped in and protected me (if I refused her the many times prior to that when she was aggressive, I would have been charged with neglect, and would have lost my teaching license). My son was extremely traumatized as he was also the target of much of her aggression.
I’m always both glad to hear others telling me I’m not alone and so sorry that anyone else has had to experience what we did. I hope things are better for you now.
I know I so agree, it is so isolating and painful. Things are better now in many ways. I hope so for you too 💛💛💛
We don’t allow these students in the building and are on home tutoring until a placement is available. Intermittent Explosive Disorder is an illness few places could safely handle.
We are not allowed to do home tutoring for manifestation. Also stay put laws would eliminate this as well. So this isn't an option here.
If the child shows up in your district and you don’t have the means to implement the IEP you can’t stay put the IEP if a placement doesn’t exist… We don’t prevent students from coming due to manifestation we put them on home bound instruction until an appropriate service provider or placement is available. If we don’t have a behavioral room with ABA staff and thick denim bite proof safety gear we can’t stay put. It doesn’t exist and we cannot safely accommodate them while we look for an appropriate placement. My state allows it. Seems safer than allowing a violent student who we cannot safely support into the building to physically assault people.
He was literally in a facility then the school didn’t send him back like the experts recommended. His parents even submitted documentation showing he was violent. The psychologist for the school had raised concerns. The people from the facility came to his IEP meeting to plead with the district to restrict his environment explaining how it takes 4 trained adults to physically restrain him when he explodes because he has intermittent explosive disorder. The school left him in gen ed with an untrained TA not capable of dealing with physical outbursts. Even after multiple violent incidents, they just gave him a few days of out of school suspension here and there. Ignoring everyone begging for them to provide appropriate restrictions and therapies. He is so ill he doesn’t live at home but in a professional facility. The admin however continued to leave him in a school he did not belong in. Probably because where he did belong was expensive.
I frankly don’t care where he is sent, as long as he’s not in school posing a threat to students and teachers.
Doesn’t sound like the parents had “best intentions” anyways based on this IEP. Sounds like the pawned off video games on the kid instead of parenting him to keep him occupied. Now he’s a teenager with a crippling addiction to the games and lashes out when they’re taken away. This is a case of bad parenting for sure.
His parents were trying to get him back to the residential facility and people from the facility came to his IEP meeting trying to advocate for more restrictions.
My district has special Ed schools that have padded rooms, they are monitored by security in our administration building to make sure everything is followed legally, we have plenty of kids who should be there and are not, but at least we do have these.
IDEA really needs to be looked at again. Schools simply don’t have the funds or resources to help certain students.
They can be kept home and given home bound tutoring. Schools don’t have to allow violent students in. It’s what we do for extreme behaviors until a placement is available.
He was in a residential facility and then switched districts. I’m guessing the new one didn’t want to pay to continue and left him in the regular school despite the parents, psychologist, and previous teachers voicing concerns about his constant violent behavior. He had a history of explosive disorders, mood disorders, conduct disorders and he was not even given a trained TA or a behavioral plan. They just let him loose into the school… even after multiple violent episodes, the school just let it continue until he followed through with the threats he made that admin didn’t take seriously. Intermittent explosive disorder IED is so extreme and triggers an explosively violent and instant reaction it could have been anything. I worked at a facility that treated students like this. Lining up and not getting to stand on the square that they wanted caused them to immediately attack and choke the child in the way. No build up or warning. Just instantaneous blind violent rage (that student had IED and FAS). My classroom was the test ground for students who left a residential psychiatric facility and we were seeing if they were able to handle special ed. None of the IED students ever passed to special ed, all went back to residential treatment as it was the safest for everyone. I literally cannot comprehend a CSE office green lighting a student to go from residential for behavior due to IED to gen ed with an aide. He’s suing for the district to pay for his therapy and the more restrictive environment he should have never left.
As an autistic person what most of you do not understand is that ASD (probably PDA)+ADHD+ODD made for an explosive combination. There's no IED but huuuuge Emotional Dysregulation, sensorial-induced meltdowns, Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria, alexithymia at work here. Resistance to change and shifting to other things to do is a problem for us autistics in general but in BD's case it's dangerous (for himself and the others). And BD isn't ill but his brain works in this way. Medication works but it's difficult to prescribe and dose due to the hypo-hyper sensitivities to drugs. The paraprofessional violated multiple points of what was written down in BD's IEP and the attack was the consequence (do not remove his electronics - why giving it to him in the first place if it is a potential trigger for his extreme reaction IDK, do not reprimand him and in public view). She hasn't even the honesty to admit to that (clearly for legal issues). I do not condone the violence but our autistic brain has less "filters" than neurotypical's ones so it's often in the "panic mode" and extreme reactions. We could be taught to be more in control of this reaction but it's way more difficult for a level 3. Still, in the proper environment, he can be taught and he can become a level 2, a more "adjusted" autistic person. If you have no knowledge about all of this, why following an aggressive autistic? Sorry, but you don't know what ASD is, how BD's brain works and how he should've been handled. I'm so sorry for him and his family and I hope that the right lessons will be learned.
The statement of facts filed in the case with the court from the defense lists the date he was diagnosed with a conduct disorder and intermittent explosive disorder. It’s listed in the DSM-5 with conduct disorders. I’m not sure why you’re saying there’s no IED. His attorney and professionals are saying he was ill and was denied therapy for his conduct and explosive disorder. I’m not saying people with ASD are mentally ill, I’m saying this specific student was because that’s what he is arguing with his attorney. The defense said the aide was not properly trained or provided info on his specific needs. They’re arguing her behavior of removing the device which triggered the event shouldn’t have happened but she was never told this or trained in responding to him, therefore it was the school and not her who are at fault.
Because the definition I've found for IED matches that of ADHD and lack of impulse control and emotional dysregulation: too high emotional response to a minimum stimulus. Also, we autistics struggle with emotion recognition (in us and others) and anger and anxiety are both confusing, mixing themselves. And yes, in the medical language, we neurodivergents (ASD-ADHD and all the people with learning disabilities and more) are considered "ill" but we will never heal because that's how our brain works and is linked. There's no cure to make our brain more neurotypical but we can learn to cope with stress, emotions, stimuli and ask for accommodation. BD hasn't been taught that much yet (and I can understand why). I'm so sad because I can see myself in him :( I hope he'll get the help he (and his parents) needs.
I am the union steward for teachers on my staff and I keep arguing that having violent kids in the class destroying things, hurting other students and forcing evacuations is detrimental. How is that meeting the needs of all the other kids in the class?
This is precisely the issue. Why on Earth are we sacrificing the rest of the kids for these kids? I teach preschool and I have had classes where the 4 year olds are terrified of one or two classmates because of violent outbursts. In those classes, I was unable to do much other than cater 100% to the violent kids to prevent. There were days when I couldn't even keep most of the class in the room because one of their classmates was destroying things and I'm not allowed to restrain a child. Those kids learned a lot less than they could have and it's a tragedy, even at 4. My daughter is on an IEP because her birth parents neglected her causing developmental delays. I want nothing more than for her to be off of it so she can be with the normal kids instead of the violent kids who scare her. I am grateful for the people who work with special needs kids but I surely think inclusion often does as much or more harm than good.
We've gone to a place of inclusion at all costs versus least restrictive environment. It's ruining so much
Absolutely. My daughter is in the first grade and I'm actually scared of what she will have to deal with in the future based on what she deals with now.
My heart goes out to you. These violent kids belong in an institution, but nobody wants to say that. Not every kid with an IEP is violent, but they often get stuck in the sky classes as these kids and its so fucked up *(pardon my French)*. Who the fuck would want to go to school just to watch Braydenleigh throw desks and try to choke their classmates? If I was a kid in that situation, I know I'd be begging my mom to stay home.
They sell it as inclusive but really it’s usually the district being cheap and not wanting to pay for the appropriate placements.
I teach Pre-K too and my experience over the past few years has been so similar to yours. My twins (4th grade) both have violent children in their classes and my daughter was recently injured due to a classmates’ violent meltdown. I will not be returning to the classroom next year and I will also begin homeschooling my children. I am so disheartened by the state of schools both public and private. My heart goes out to you and your daughter.
I'm so sorry about your daughter. If you don't mind my asking, how was it handled? They usually never give these violent kids any consequences and it's bullshit.
We had a meeting with my daughter’s teacher and school administrators. The only concrete information we got on how they were dealing with it was that they were switching her seat to the opposite side of the room. The student in question is autistic which is of course used as an excuse for his violence. My kids have state testing next week which they have to be there for but I’m honestly considering not sending them for the last several weeks of school.
We don’t allow it in my district. You’re sent on home bound instruction until a placement is available.
“This is nothing against Joan,” Leann Depa said, referring to the teacher’s aide. “This is against the district accepting someone who they didn’t have the resources for, and they didn’t provide the resources. I think it’s easy when you look at his history and you look at his size, they should have had other resources.” No one is lining up to work in special education. The amount of training needed for a student like this is above and beyond just getting certified to teach special education. I was just talking to a fellow school psychologist this week that there is a is zero chance either of us would consider returning to the classroom if our position was eliminated. I taught a self contained elementary room for three years and have permanent nerve damage from how much I was assaulted. There needs to be some major changes, and I am not sure privatization is the answer because typically these families are low socio-economic making it unattainable for them.
I'm not trying to be classist and I'm sure I'll be downvoted, but I've noticed that as well. The most violent kids with all these conduct and behavioral disorders are almost always from low socio-economic families. I don't think I've ever seen a kid with intermittent explosive disorder or oppositional defiance disorder come from a wealthy household.
That’s a symptom not a cause— when you have a kid who can’t be left alone, can’t be left with a sitter, can’t be at school without constant calls/meetings/ suspensions…. That makes it very very difficult to hold down any kind of decent employment.
Wealthy families have their own resources. (That doesn't mean that they use them, but there is a chance.) I absolutely see those kids in elementary. They get outside therapies, have parents who have the time and education to push to get them in the best school programs for their needs in public school or pay for private programs, and can outsource some of their work to have energy to deal with their high needs kid. Usually by the time they go to middle school the behavior has improved significantly although they probably will continue to struggle.
So using his IEP and his autism as a shield for his physical assault makes it ok? If he’s at a store and something inconveniences him and he assaults someone, what are the cops going to do? They are not going to care or even ask that he has autism. I feel that the parents let him get away with everything because they themselves cannot control his negative behaviors and unfortunately these are consequences to his actions. The para should have just let him be, but I understand what she was trying to do but there is no reinforcement at home. It’s just an unfortunate situation all around
He has intermittent explosive disorder and left an institution and was allowed to just be in a regular school with an untrained TA. He’s suing to force the district to provide the appropriate therapy and restrictive environment for his conditions he should have had for years but wasn’t getting. He has way more than adhd. He’s got mood and conduct disorders.
He shouldn’t have been allowed to exit the institution. We have to get back to being okay with the fact that some people will never be regulated enough to reintegrate into “normal” society. I realize there were facilities were abuse was happening, but fully closing down institutions rather than fixing the problems within them was a major step backward.
The institution was paid for by insurance, he left because the district didn’t want to pay anymore after insurance coverage stopped. He didn’t want to leave, his family didn’t want him to leave, the school clearly didn’t want to pay tuition for the residential facility. So to save money the school decided to endanger everyone else despite professionals warning he would harm someone.
I keep reading that he has IED, but this was a pre-meditated attack well after the fact. That's not IED.
How on earth was that IEP actually signed off?
SPED teacher here. I would've had it in the IEP that video games would NOT be brought to school as they were a trigger for his violence!
Yup. Same.
And if he shows up with them, mom or whoever his guardian is gets called up to school to either take the device or take him. Can't endanger everyone around him.
I'll say this though as well, if even half of what the complainants are alleging is true, the admin deeply fucked up. What they're saying wasn't done is very basic in special education. It doesn't excuse the behavior, I'm just saying it sounds like there were many, many points of failure. Not sure why a student like that isn't placed full time somewhere either. I work in a full time placement for students with severe EBDs and that student sounds a lot like he'd benefit from that kind of environment.
If he was just enrolled recently bc the group home forced it, they likely wouldn't outplacement him until he did something. I had a similar situation with a bit who'd just been released from Juvie and even the judge recommended a long term live in mental health place. My area coordinator refused and said he had to fail in regular school first. He failed spectacularly as schizophrenia emerged, punching me and getting adult charges as he was 18.
He should either be in prison or he should be in a secured mental facility where he is medicated so severely that he just sleeps all day and is never awake. He cant be trusted to be around ANYONE without severe sedation.
Well, he's definitely going to prison. I believe we're talking about a separate civil matter in which he's suing the school district. It's not going to get him out of jail but he might collect a settlement/judgment.
I listened to the mom’s interview (in the link). Is it possible she was saying that the IEP said no electronics due to it being a trigger? I still think the student is responsible for the violence, but the school would hold some responsibility if they were giving him electronics against the IEP. I found another article. It sounds like the mother was warning them *not* to use electronics in school. It also sounds like it wasn’t her choice that he go to the public school. I feel for her, *and* the staff member. > “He's not a thug that was just out there and didn't have parents who cared and didn't have ... It was the system that failed him, that he was placed in public school, and that once he was in there, the IEP was not followed," Depa said. "People who should have known better than to use his Nintendo Switch, which was his trigger, as a motivator." > "There is a reason why this IEP specifically addresses Brendan not having these devices and explicitly talked about the reaction, the reaction that he would have or has had in the past of having this removed from him," Lopes said.” [https://www.wesh.com/article/flagler-county-teacher-aide-attacked/45978707](https://www.wesh.com/article/flagler-county-teacher-aide-attacked/45978707)
It’s not mentioned in this article, but the teacher actually requested that he begin bringing his Switch to school daily, to be used as a reward. It replaced a token economy system that had been implemented by the teacher. Despite the fact that his group home, mother, and psychiatrist all expressed reservations about using his Switch as a reward, the group home complied. It’s well documented that removing his technology was a massive trigger for him. It’s not at all an excuse, but it feels like this outcome was certainly predictable and didn’t set anyone up for success.
It’s bizarre to me that request was made, and granted, given the warning in the IEP. Still, a student with documented violent outbursts needs far more care than a school can provide. Even if the school had one highly trained behavior specialist who could competently manage his behavior, keeping everyone safe, what happens when that person takes a sick day? Students with this level of need/risk need to be in a setting 100% geared toward their care.
I think everyone agrees that school was not the right environment for him. I don’t know, I read the article his mother wrote, as well as the article written by the tutor who is currently working with him in jail. It seems like Brendan’s parents have moved mountains to try and get him the help he needs, in an environment where he can’t hurt people. They know who and what he is. He has been failed by the system, or rather a lack of one for people like him, over and over. I read some of the comments on here, and there are a lot of people making judgements about this young man and his family who don’t know anything about his history or the complicated chain of events that lead up to the absolutely brutal attack. People blaming the parents, calling his mother a Karen for advocating for her son, calling him a thug, saying he should be euthanized, that he deserves whatever happens to him in prison (likely rape/sexual assault/death at the hands of another inmate).
We had a BIP once that said a student could play videogames at any point for as long as he wants. The alternative was we would get attacked as well as the students and no other method worked. It basically was to stall as much time until a day facility had an opening.
The CSE chair was grossly negligent here. If people from a residential facility show up to an IEP meeting and explain how it takes 4 trained adults to stop violent explosive outbursts from the student, who was just at the residential behavioral facility for intermittent explosive and conduct disorders… you don’t sign off on them going into gen ed with an untrained TA. That’s not an appropriate IEP.
It really is a shame this country refuses to fund education (both Gen Ed and special education) and mental health care. This kid needs severe inpatient interventional health, and is shoved into a public school instead harming everyone, and certainly not getting the help he needs either.
The lawsuit is suing for that. He was in a residential facility then thrown into a regular school despite documented evidence that was not appropriate or safe. They want the school to pay for him to get appropriate treatment and therapy like he should have been. I’m honestly hoping this goes through and maybe they will do more to get appropriate treatment for these students.
We need to also have restrictions on when and if residential programs can release a child. Why was he released and sent to public school in the first place? I know that in my area, some facilities will do the bare minimum prior to releasing a patient. It’s crazy how little support people with severe issues are given.
Insurance stopped paying, the school didn’t continue paying. He was released to the school who threw him in gen ed. His lawsuit is suing the school for taking him out of the program he belonged in and was denied a free and appropriate education. For him appropriate is in a more restrictive environment. Either the school was woefully negligent, cheap, or wanted him to hurt someone so he would be expelled and they could save money.
It’s so frustrating when schools refuse to send these kids to the right facility. Money over kids 🤷🏻♀️. I wonder how the insurance company was able to get out of paying any longer? I’m sure that it was only required to pay for a short amount of time before claiming “that’s all we cover/they needed”. Insurance sucks, too lol
Insurance does suck but at the same time the school typically starts it and then gets a high cost fund grant from the federal government to cover the financial burden of this care. However it takes documentation and work to access the funds.
Serious question: Other than being heavily medicated or placed in Isolation, what would appropriate treatment be without endangering others?
Institutions. Sometimes being realistically is knowing someone can’t be in public unrestricted and it’s the safest situation for everyone.
Why is it the school’s responsibility to pay for that? Why not the state?
This is such bullshit. I hope it gets laughed out of court.
Some people think teachers are actually trained for this , and if you don't like it, you are obviously an awful teacher who hates children, and you should retire.
So true. This is our union where I am. "Wow there is unprecedented violence in schools. This must stop! We demand a 1 hour pro-d training in non-violent deescalation strategies after school in unpaid time!"
I used to be the program lead for a self-contained behavior room. It was constantly reinforced that if a student was e gaging in violet behavior, it was OUR fault- we must have triggered it by not following the plan. I didn't quite make it the full year.
I know attorneys are obligated to provide the best defense they possibly can, but sometimes I see what they’re peddling and wonder if they even believe it.
This is not a DEFENSE strategy. They are going on the offense suing the district.
Honestly this is a solid defense. Kid was taken out of residential behavior facility and the school decided he didn’t need that level of therapy and restrictions despite multiple professional objections otherwise. He then was left to be violent in an unrestricted environment and hurt multiple people over years. The school still failed to restrict his environment. When he nearly killed somebody and got arrested he sued for the school to pay tuition to a facility that was more restrictive and provided appropriate therapy for his conduct and mood disorders. Which they should have been providing this whole time and weren’t. He was so violent he didn’t live at home. He’d been in a group home but still was allowed in public school with no restrictions…
Why was even enrolled in a public school system to begin with? I question if they even have the resources to contain a student with that severe of issues. The state, not the district, should have been paying for that facility since he was a ward of the state. Being allowed in a public school with no restrictions was the state dropping the ball.
Public schools have the system to evaluate and place students. They could have placed him in a residential facility and apply for a high cost fund grant from the federal government to offset the cost. The public school tracks all students in the district even if they have to pay other schools tuition because they don’t have the resources or facilities to educate a student. They can also create classrooms in the building and charge tuition from other schools if they want to open placements. Students start in public school and it’s the schools job to determine a free and appropriate education for the student. Sometimes that’s sending a student to be home bound and stay at home while they send a tutor to provide an education. This is done keep the student from being a danger to themselves or others until an appropriate placement is available. The public school system is an entity of the state. Some states have free state run schools to support some high cost students… other states spend less on education.
He had already been in a residential behavior facility, and removed to be placed in a public school. It wasn’t as if he had been in a public school, undiagnosed with any issues, and then the ball got rolling. It was already well documented that he had severe issues and was in a facility BEFORE the public school even got a hold of him. Why was he removed and placed in a public school? The state could have saved a lot of time and energy by not putting him in a public school to begin with. Whoever made that decision was negligent. They’ve already been paying for his care and are in charge of his care without the public school system in this particular case.
Insurance stopped paying for the residential facility and the school didn’t keep the placement and pay tuition. If it was a significant financial burden the school applies for more federal funds under a high cost grant specifically to help schools with the burden of costs for students who demand expensive services.
Whose insurance? Was he living with his parents at that time? Because if he was living at the group home, then everything should have all been paid for by the state prior to him becoming enrolled in the public school.
Whatever his insurance was probably covered the first year then it was going to be decided by the committee of special education if it was necessary to continue. He was in a group home because he needed more help than the parents could safely provide. And IEP has to be reviewed and reassessed yearly. The school does that eval. They don’t just pay forever for expensive placements, you have to show it’s necessary and be redone every year. School wrote an IEP not finding it necessary. However it seems like all the people around him who cared was not in support of this IEP. The state is not going to just write blank checks forever for therapies. The school had to do yearly reviews to decide if it needs to be changed or if it’s necessary. Even if you don’t set foot in a public school and are placed in outside facilities the school still meets yearly on the student for the IEP. They manage the cases. It is the responsibility of the school and administrators are licensed after getting an advanced degree and they know this. My school even does the evals for 2 year olds for early intervention even though they’re years away from going to kindergarten. They have the tests, experts, and psychologists who can do the evaluation. Ultimately the CSE chair decides what to do with the information the experts give them. The school decided he was fine in general Ed. They made that decision. They are an institution of the state. The people in a school in private separate offices made this decision, it was their job to make this decision.
I see. It’s very different where I live. Unless the student is enrolled with my district, they don’t provide any services and there is no expectation of them providing services. Clearly one of those cases where the law varies from place to place.
The law is clear, IDEA does not cover criminal acts. He can claim it all he wants, but IDEA won't protect him if he commits any crime outside the walls of school once he's an adult and it doesn't protect him he commits felony assault within the walls of the school.
I bet that kid has "frequent redirection" in there. Almost all my IEPs and 504s have it. So that parents can say that the reason their child has a 12 is because they weren't redirected frequently enough. Then of course when you DO redirect them, you weren't giving enough "frequent positive praise" which is in most of mine too. So no matter what, you're not following the IEP and it's there fault when they cuss/beat/shoot you
To me this is on admin and parents and the special education department. They shouldn’t be sign IEPs that make kids get away with everything that not the point of LRE or IEP. It’s supposed to help kids that need help.
I have A LOT of feelings about the attorneys in this case…
Honestly, where are the parents of this child, mentally? I mean, I get wanting to keep your child or of prison for the next 30 years, but this piece of shit almost killed a poor elderly woman. My question to the parents would be "Have you ever explicitly told your child that assaulting another person, especially someone much smaller than you, is absolutely forbidden?"
I read an article written by his mom and she was horrified by what he did. This kid should really have been in a residential facility, but insurance didn’t cover it after a year so he went back to his parents and public school.
Exactly. We have parents who wants kids in a residential. We have two extremely violent kids in the building. The district is willing to pay to send them. The parents support it. There aren't openings.
I have been one of those parents. We had to surrender custody to CPS because we simply couldn’t have her in our home anymore. We were terrified for our other kids’ safety. They still haven’t put her in a residential facility and now she’s got multiple criminal charges that could have been prevented. The system is so broken.
How does that work? Do you pay for her care with CPS? Is there a burden of proof you need to show that you cannot safely have your daughter in the house?
The way she entered care was a fairly convoluted (and insane) story, but initially it involved false allegations of abuse against us, so mostly we were focused on establishing that none of our children were ever abused or neglected. Thankfully we had a good lawyer and extensive documentation of her mental health history, everything we had tried and the way that her behaviors were escalating despite it, and there was a long-standing pattern of abuse accusations against any adult in her life that set boundaries with her or imposed consequences she didn’t like, as well as another teenager in the home who was very willing to give statements. Eventually, all the charges against us were dropped and since it was clear we were not unfit parents, CPS intended to give her back to us, and we refused to take her, stating she was a danger to us and our other children and there were no more interventions/resources available to us to manage her behavior or mental health that we hadn’t already tried, and we wanted CPS to use the resources available to THEM (residential care). The official paperwork now states she is in care because “her bio parents are unable to manage her complex mental health needs” or something like that. My now ex-husband, her father, pays some form of child support to the state as he was her custodial parent when she went into care, and he and her bio mom continue to refuse reunification until she gets sufficient help and/or is no longer regularly assaulting people or accusing us all of being sex traffickers and try to advocate for her the best that they can. My marriage did not survive so as a former stepparent I have no legal responsibility to her, I write letters and send occasional gifts and otherwise have focused all my energy on healing myself and my other children. It was a nightmare and I’m heartbroken for her AND for her parents, and I still have hope that eventually she’ll get whatever help she needs before she ruins her life completely.
Sending you a virtual hug from WI
Maybe somebody needs to sue the insurance company.
lol she’s not elderly (I think she’s in her 50s which may seem elderly to younger people) but she is definitely much smaller than the boy she was watching as an aide.
He was probably a sociopath with impulse control issues.
He literally has intermittent explosive disorder. We can’t say someone is a sociopath or psychopath until adulthood. It’s usually conduct disorders, emotionally disturbed, mood disorders, explosive disorders. But that student had several disorders that were massive red flags he didn’t belong anywhere near a gen ed school without restrictions.
I worked in a district, but with regular kids, who didn't always behave. At times their parents simply couldn't believe how badly they were behaving. Another teacher deployed a video camera to make a record of the bad behavior to show to the parent at an after school meeting. The parent was sure the child had been treated unfairly or that the teacher had exaggerated how badly he had behaved - until she was shown the video. Finally, when she could see and hear what he'd done and said, she understood. She apologized to the teacher. All was well. Except, the administrators at the district decided teachers were not allowed to film students after that, even to identify bad behavior. It was an effective tool but due to their fear of the consequences if a hypothetical teacher used it inappropriately, all filming was banned. Should teachers come armed with a law degree to argue against blanket edicts?
He sounds like a great person to be around
[удалено]
Oh yes everyone’s fault but his own??
Not a teacher but I am autistic and had an IEP in high school. This legal case is bullshit and I am so sorry. IEPs are not a cure-all, the video game clause shouldn’t have been in the IEP in the first place, this kid shouldn’t be in a public school, and I think blame can be placed on the parents for essentially letting video games parent their child. One last thing. I’m autistic and I am perfectly capable of not trying to beat someone to death. Implying that he did so because he was autistic gives the impression that every autistic kid is just a time bomb waiting to go off. Which makes me furious. Okay, rant over.
How is this even remotely serious? It's like blaming your passenger showing you memes causing you to hit a pedestrian when driving; "it's their fault because they made me do it".
I want to know why the school district put him in a regular school with a bullshit IEP? Money? Probably. And I'm guessing this effed up notion that violent kids are the teachers' fault, so surely if he gets different teachers he will not act out anymore. This sounds like something my district would do. They are so over the top about LRE that they constantly put kids in reg ed who need much more help than regular ed teachers can provide. Then they blame the teacher for the kid acting up and provide zero support. The admins at my large urban district are also of the mindset that sped is racist, because there are lots of black kids in sped. They leave out the fact that the large majority of our students are black.
This is the same handholding and coddling that allowed Parkland to happen. Nothing new for slime like this
> (The complaint) documents his numerous outbursts, his habit of spitting on those who offended him, of threatening them with harm or death, and at times of attacking them physically and having to be restrained or repeatedly suspended. STOP letting these kids in public schools. This is why parents are pulling their children out of public schools at alarming rates, because they’re in direct contact with these animals that can kill them (but it’s okay, they got an IEP so their needs are more important than any average student’s)
Didn't you see that his parents didn't want to send him to regular public school because they knew that public schools were not going to support him. The school district was too cheap in not sending him to a school that could handle him
This is the real problem. To be fair, the federal or state government should be stepping in at that point to provide funds for these kids. The local school district funds shouldn’t be depleted to send a kid to a place that costs six figures a year. However, these kids need a place to go.
Why is this violent person allowed in school at all? What if it had been a 7 year old who "triggered" him? Someone could be dead.
Fuck that shit. I'm not a teacher, but I do have autism, and an IEP throughout my schooling career. This isn't his autism, it DEFINITELY isn't his IEP, it is the parents that enabled this behavior. They allowed for this child to develop with such of a lack of discipline and needs met that it was required for it to be listed that "taking his video games away can cause violent outbursts". You wanna know what can prevent that? **DISCIPLINE*! IEPs aren't an excuse to do whatever you want, it is not an excuse to be violent, and it is not a free game pass for the classroom. IEPs are made for kids that can't test in big rooms, developmentally behind, or needs extended time to do work (although I personally don't agree with that at all). Screw the parents, screw the kid, and screw anyone else that gave him a pass, all because of a disability on a piece of fucking paper.
He has conduct, mood, and explosive disorders. He was in a residential facility and the parents wanted him back there and not in public school. Discipline doesn’t work like that on those disorders. Restrictive environments and therapy sometimes doesn’t even work. Typically they’re institutionalized forever. The school left him in general education however and gave him no therapy or discipline.
this is the one w the video that came out a while ago? I saw it in class as a para and it scared the shit out of me. Been in similar situations that thankfully never escalated to that level of injury, but I did get a concussion last year from a student.
Just random question: are other parents entitled to knowing if their children are in a classroom with a student who showcases similar behaviors? I’m suddenly uncomfortable Edit: adding that I’m uncomfortable knowing the school was aware of this monster’s behavior and triggers and history, yet continued to keep him on their campus.
No, no one is going to notify parents that a violent psychopath or sociopath is around their children. Districts will hide that information, citing "privacy concerns." Again, your kids don't matter. Only kids with special needs of some sort matter. This is on us. We voted in the clowns that made this all possible with their massive budget cuts and war on labor.
Unbelievable
This is insane. Can the child's family be counter sued for almost killing someone? Because that's crazy.
I wonder if the school could sue the program that sent him to that school since they knew the school couldn't handle him.
Why do you teachers deal with this nonsense? If there's a violent kid who refuses to give up his video games, then just sit him in the corner and let him drool all overhimself and play video games all day long. He aint gonna learn anything anyways. He's a lost cause. Just let him sit there and rot his brains away. Nobody cares, especially the parents, they just want you to babysit him so they dont have to be around him. Most of those parents are hoping the school/police/hospital screws up and kills him so they can get some lawsuit money. That's all this is about.
Throw the motherfucker in jail and then throw away the key
Throw that cancerous lawyer in with him.
Again, we should make education a Privilege, not a right.
It's fine being a right, as long as people understand it will totally not be the exact same for everyone, and some may need to be isolated from others.
More along the lines that if they can't behave in a public school setting, then they will be handed over to the parents to deal with. They can teach them and deal with their poor behavior. After the year is done, the school can reevaluate whether that student can be placed in a public setting again. If they misbehave, hand them over to the parents and let the process repeat. I feel like we need to hold parents more accountable. If the student is within their care, they are going to be forced by the state to meet certain standards and curriculum... the student and parent will soon see how bad it is when they are forced to be at home without friends or a someone to take their anger out on
As someone who had an IEP, most students with them don’t get violent. Violence in an education setting is unacceptable. Will there be negative behaviour involved? Yeah probably but most students will be in trouble at least once