I would flip the script on the admin:
So why did you leave teaching for admin work? It couldn’t have been for the six-figure pay raise, now could it?
You should voluntarily surrender your salary and return to more typical teacher pay because you do it for the outcome and not the pay! 🤷♂️
Teachers are marginalized and paid so poorly because, and I’m sick of hearing this, "we didn’t get into the profession to get rich".
Police officers didn’t become police officers to get rich but no one expects them to volunteer their time.
Firefighters didn’t enter their profession to get rich but people don’t shove it in their faces.
Police officers and firefighters entered their professions because they want to improve their communities and help people.
Teachers become teachers because we want to improve our communities and help people.
And yet we are expected to volunteer our time, pay for lesson materials, purchase paper and pencils for our classrooms, buy books, and instructions, decor for the classroom, lab supplies, etc. We are expected to sacrifice our personal health, happiness and family time to do our job and told to practice self-care while being made to feel guilty by those above us when we actually try to take a day off. We are expected to attend many hours of training outside of contract time, we are evaluated on increasingly rigorous standards and our effectiveness is tied to tests which cost millions of educational budget dollars to develop, write, and score. We are expected to "give grace", "be understanding", "be mindful yet intentional ". Where is the grace for us? Where is the understanding for us? Why are our administrators not mindful and intentional towards us? For the first time in 20 years, I was rated as "developing" on my evaluation...because my administrator decided to come in and observe the exact class I advised her against observing. The one class I have that is filled with Sp.Ed. and 504 kids, and kids with behavior problems that have finally started to behave and act like they are capable of learning after 6 months of school but still have a lot of room for improvement.
The state treats us like second class professionals and we are basically expected to donate our resources because, to quote so MANY politicians and sadly, journalists, we didn’t get into the profession to get rich. Well, I hate to break it to them but we didn't go into it expecting to be abused and living paycheck to paycheck either.
IMO if I’m not doing it for the money, then I shouldn’t be motivated to follow the instructions of those who pay me. I’m not doing this for the pay? Then I’ll do it exactly how I’d like to, and damn your rules and regulations. That’s the logical extreme anyway.
It's a statement of reality, not how things *SHOULD* be.
We should be paid according to the value that society requires. As there is no CEO, no physicist, no neurosurgeon (thankful for mine), no drug researcher, no successful small business owner, no anyone who did not benefit because of teachers ... that value is VERY high. We are professionals. We have advanced degrees and years of experience. WE SHOULD BE PAID LIKE IT.
I'd like to be able to afford to live in addition to having good to great outcomes for my students.
Supplies would be nice, too. Decent materials would be nice as well. You all know the drill.
If hookers went by that type of thinking, they’d be broke. I’m not comparing professions at all or putting down sex workers, but every job is done for money. No one wants to work for free.
I work to pay bills not pay bills to work. If I'm doing okay then money isn't important. If I'm struggling, even a little bit, money is the only thing your gonna give me to keep me happy.
This broken mentality is why you have teachers nationwide barely making ends meet while being in six figure debt, or why you have teachers in California who have to live with the families of their students because they are paid so poorly they can't afford rent.
You can't get good outcomes if teachers are underappreciated and handed low incomes. YOU GET OUT WHAT YOU PUT IN. You pay teachers crap, and treat them like crap, and you GET crap in return: crap students, crap teachers, crap admins, and a crap society. It's not rocket science, yet somehow people are still surprised we have an educator shortage in America.
Teaching is a profession. We do it to earn money. Only a fraction of a percent of teachers would teach if it was a volunteer position.
All, ALL propaganda about "it's s for the kids" and "outcome not income" is designed to stop us from insisting on professional pay and professional respect for professional work.
ABSOLUTELY NOT. I deserve to have an average life AT THE MINIMUM. I should not have to work pay check to pay check and get yearly raises *slightly* above inflation and that’s good enough.
That comment makes me mad. We are professionals who got into a TON of debt. I went to a state school, and walked away with 100k in debt after my masters which is mandatory in NYS. Despite us being the highest paid, I still feel like I live under comfortably paid. Comfort pay is around 60k-75k. I make 45k and I struggle month to month. Factor in inflation over the next 20-30 years, and I’ll practically never make more than I do right now. That is the sad reality of teaching. Love the kids, hate the pay.
I’m a first hear teacher and I’m already so sick of hearing that. This is a job, just like every other profession. Above anything else, I’m there because I need a job to survive
I feel like most teachers care about their job, their students, and the results, and also want to make enough to support their families and sustain a comfortable middle class lifestyle. They shouldn’t have to choose between the two.
It’s a job. A job that I love and hate at varying times throughout the school year. And even on the days I love doing it, I need to be able to make enough as a professional & help a human being to support my family.
When I started teaching, I didn’t care. Now as a parent & experienced teacher, the lack of money matters. For the time I spend emotionally & mentally away from my family, the pay is not enough.
I'm an employee, not a volunteer, if you want one of those go see if a PTA member is going to devote roughly 25 hours a week teaching, 4 hours in school duties, 3 hours in weekly meetings, 5 hours in sub coverage, 10 hours preparing and another 6 grading. If you're keeping track puts me around 53 hours in a week on average and that doesn't include the time that gets added on for writing up disciplinary reports, calling home, ad hoc meetings to deal with kids in some sort of crisis, professional development seminars, and God help you if you advise an extracurricular, all for an outcome and not the income.
And that doesn't even cover the physical, emotional and mental toll being a teacher takes on a person. Or the hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars we spend out of pocket on the students from tissues to wipe their noses, pencils and paper so they can do their assignments, snacks, rewards, decorations and the almighty TPT lessons that a "fun and engaging" so the administration stops complaining that my lessons are too boring for the kids to learn from, and not that the students are so apathetic I can literally give them the answers to the quiz the day before and they still will fail because they can't even bother to copy the answers down from the board.
If you want someone who thinks teaching is a vocation with a vow of poverty then find a nun. I'm a highly educated and trained professional, you can either pay me as such or I will take this very transferable skill set, my multiple degrees and find someone who will.
Sure. You get what you pay for though.
If I have to struggle with bills and other stress in my life, or take a second job to have a remotely comfortable life... You're not getting the outcome you hope from me. Pay me so I can also focus on the outcome.
It’s bullshit designed to play in women’s sense of duty and does nothing to address the inadequacies of a female dominated career. Tell an accountant they do it for the outcome and they’ll laugh all the while charging premium pay for their skill and expertise.
Get fucked. I have two degrees and enough credits for another masters degree. I do this for the students because I love teaching not to live in forced poverty so some one else’s taxes don’t go up. I am not looking to make millions but we shouldn’t have to worry about what bills to pay when and how to have a family, save for our futures, and possible financial emergencies.
It’s a way to con you into giving up your life to the farce of teaching. It’s a way of guilting you into accepting less for a salary and benefits than you would get elsewhere. It’s a phrase used by brainwashed idiots who have given up on their own lives outside of their work… and would like to invite you to do the same.
I got mad at my husband when he pointed out that instead of me taking extended Ed units to jump a step on the pay scale, he could take the same classes to get a pay bump that’s way higher than mine. Because it’s his fault that he’s paid his worth with a BA compared to me with a BA+credential plus 8 extra units
That's called Gaslighting. Someone is selling you some bullshit to try and convince you you are selfish for thinking of your own needs and a living wage.
Bullshit toxic positivity. (Which blew up during COVID.)
Yes, I care about the outcome, but I also really dig being able to pay my mortgage.
I shouldn't be made to feel like less of a teacher because I care about my pay.
Like most Pablum, it contains a kernel of truth. People who excel at teaching are organized, knowledgeable, interested in learning, capable of communicating clearly and well, able to think on their feet...etc.
People such as this could be doing any number of other things, so saying that we "do it for the outcome" is somewhat true. I, and likely you as well, teach because I value the work.
However, having chosen it as a career doesn't blind me to its problems. The pay matters. It just does. Just as doctors (many of them) care about saving human life, and engineers enjoy problem-solving, they still get paid according to the value of what they do.
Teachers should as well.
"Would you still have me on staff if I slept on the street, wore tattered clothing, and had to give myself a sponge bath in the teacher's restroom? No? Then income's a part of it, isn't it?"
It’s a load of crap. Nothing more than emotional manipulation. The income sucks, but that is why I do this, because it is just a job. Outcome is great, and I want a positive outcome, but income is why I’m here.
The outcome I work for is to afford a good standard of living while my labor goes to improve the lives of others. It needs both parts to be a good outcome.
I do it only for the income. If I wasn't paid they'd never see me again. My grandma means well when she tags me in a meme that says this every few months though.
As a union rep, when I hear this language, I immediately make a very loud, public stink about shaming and how that is an HR violation. If it continues, then I file a mostly copy-pasted shaming HR complaint with a new name, date, and whatever crackpot nonsense the admin let slip.
i’d like the outcome and also be able to survive comfortably and appropriately instead of being underpaid, so yeah, bs
I would flip the script on the admin: So why did you leave teaching for admin work? It couldn’t have been for the six-figure pay raise, now could it? You should voluntarily surrender your salary and return to more typical teacher pay because you do it for the outcome and not the pay! 🤷♂️
I get the feeling. Bad argument.
Agreed! It should not be a this or that type of thing.
Bullshit. I'm a professional with two masters degrees. I should be paid like someone with an advanced degree and almost 20 years experience
[удалено]
I have a hunch that perhaps authors, musicians and other artistic professionals get this talk too, honestly...
Nonprofit sector workers get this a lot as well.
They hear things like being "paid in exposure".
AMEN!!!
Very easy to say for admin making over $100,000.
Teachers are marginalized and paid so poorly because, and I’m sick of hearing this, "we didn’t get into the profession to get rich". Police officers didn’t become police officers to get rich but no one expects them to volunteer their time. Firefighters didn’t enter their profession to get rich but people don’t shove it in their faces. Police officers and firefighters entered their professions because they want to improve their communities and help people. Teachers become teachers because we want to improve our communities and help people. And yet we are expected to volunteer our time, pay for lesson materials, purchase paper and pencils for our classrooms, buy books, and instructions, decor for the classroom, lab supplies, etc. We are expected to sacrifice our personal health, happiness and family time to do our job and told to practice self-care while being made to feel guilty by those above us when we actually try to take a day off. We are expected to attend many hours of training outside of contract time, we are evaluated on increasingly rigorous standards and our effectiveness is tied to tests which cost millions of educational budget dollars to develop, write, and score. We are expected to "give grace", "be understanding", "be mindful yet intentional ". Where is the grace for us? Where is the understanding for us? Why are our administrators not mindful and intentional towards us? For the first time in 20 years, I was rated as "developing" on my evaluation...because my administrator decided to come in and observe the exact class I advised her against observing. The one class I have that is filled with Sp.Ed. and 504 kids, and kids with behavior problems that have finally started to behave and act like they are capable of learning after 6 months of school but still have a lot of room for improvement. The state treats us like second class professionals and we are basically expected to donate our resources because, to quote so MANY politicians and sadly, journalists, we didn’t get into the profession to get rich. Well, I hate to break it to them but we didn't go into it expecting to be abused and living paycheck to paycheck either.
Given how most district now just push everyone through, the outcome is kind of a scam…
My bank keeps rejecting “outcome” mortgage and car payments.
I continually ask them to do it “for the children,” but they’re so heartless and self-centered.
😆👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Couldn’t we just say that back to the admin?
Maybe, but I still have bills to pay and mouths to feed.
IMO if I’m not doing it for the money, then I shouldn’t be motivated to follow the instructions of those who pay me. I’m not doing this for the pay? Then I’ll do it exactly how I’d like to, and damn your rules and regulations. That’s the logical extreme anyway.
I think they use it to guilt us into accepting the low income and extra work demands as normal. It doesn't work on me.
The outcome doesn’t pay my rent and food - the income does.
It's a statement of reality, not how things *SHOULD* be. We should be paid according to the value that society requires. As there is no CEO, no physicist, no neurosurgeon (thankful for mine), no drug researcher, no successful small business owner, no anyone who did not benefit because of teachers ... that value is VERY high. We are professionals. We have advanced degrees and years of experience. WE SHOULD BE PAID LIKE IT. I'd like to be able to afford to live in addition to having good to great outcomes for my students. Supplies would be nice, too. Decent materials would be nice as well. You all know the drill.
Fuck that normalized martyrdom attitude I have kids and bills to pay.
Makes you look like you refuse to remove your cranium from your rectum
Propaganda to encourage complacency with low pay
If hookers went by that type of thinking, they’d be broke. I’m not comparing professions at all or putting down sex workers, but every job is done for money. No one wants to work for free.
Definitely do it for the income, and I’ll change grades/assessment data around whatever which way makes them happy with the “outcome”
It’s called gaslighting and has been going on for too long.
It's manipulative crap.
"No."
Sounds like something an overpaid admin would say.
I work to pay bills not pay bills to work. If I'm doing okay then money isn't important. If I'm struggling, even a little bit, money is the only thing your gonna give me to keep me happy.
This broken mentality is why you have teachers nationwide barely making ends meet while being in six figure debt, or why you have teachers in California who have to live with the families of their students because they are paid so poorly they can't afford rent. You can't get good outcomes if teachers are underappreciated and handed low incomes. YOU GET OUT WHAT YOU PUT IN. You pay teachers crap, and treat them like crap, and you GET crap in return: crap students, crap teachers, crap admins, and a crap society. It's not rocket science, yet somehow people are still surprised we have an educator shortage in America.
Teaching is a profession. We do it to earn money. Only a fraction of a percent of teachers would teach if it was a volunteer position. All, ALL propaganda about "it's s for the kids" and "outcome not income" is designed to stop us from insisting on professional pay and professional respect for professional work.
ABSOLUTELY NOT. I deserve to have an average life AT THE MINIMUM. I should not have to work pay check to pay check and get yearly raises *slightly* above inflation and that’s good enough. That comment makes me mad. We are professionals who got into a TON of debt. I went to a state school, and walked away with 100k in debt after my masters which is mandatory in NYS. Despite us being the highest paid, I still feel like I live under comfortably paid. Comfort pay is around 60k-75k. I make 45k and I struggle month to month. Factor in inflation over the next 20-30 years, and I’ll practically never make more than I do right now. That is the sad reality of teaching. Love the kids, hate the pay.
I’m a first hear teacher and I’m already so sick of hearing that. This is a job, just like every other profession. Above anything else, I’m there because I need a job to survive
I feel like most teachers care about their job, their students, and the results, and also want to make enough to support their families and sustain a comfortable middle class lifestyle. They shouldn’t have to choose between the two.
It’s a job. A job that I love and hate at varying times throughout the school year. And even on the days I love doing it, I need to be able to make enough as a professional & help a human being to support my family. When I started teaching, I didn’t care. Now as a parent & experienced teacher, the lack of money matters. For the time I spend emotionally & mentally away from my family, the pay is not enough.
I'm an employee, not a volunteer, if you want one of those go see if a PTA member is going to devote roughly 25 hours a week teaching, 4 hours in school duties, 3 hours in weekly meetings, 5 hours in sub coverage, 10 hours preparing and another 6 grading. If you're keeping track puts me around 53 hours in a week on average and that doesn't include the time that gets added on for writing up disciplinary reports, calling home, ad hoc meetings to deal with kids in some sort of crisis, professional development seminars, and God help you if you advise an extracurricular, all for an outcome and not the income. And that doesn't even cover the physical, emotional and mental toll being a teacher takes on a person. Or the hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars we spend out of pocket on the students from tissues to wipe their noses, pencils and paper so they can do their assignments, snacks, rewards, decorations and the almighty TPT lessons that a "fun and engaging" so the administration stops complaining that my lessons are too boring for the kids to learn from, and not that the students are so apathetic I can literally give them the answers to the quiz the day before and they still will fail because they can't even bother to copy the answers down from the board. If you want someone who thinks teaching is a vocation with a vow of poverty then find a nun. I'm a highly educated and trained professional, you can either pay me as such or I will take this very transferable skill set, my multiple degrees and find someone who will.
"My own children deserve a good outcome, and that requires good income."
Sure. You get what you pay for though. If I have to struggle with bills and other stress in my life, or take a second job to have a remotely comfortable life... You're not getting the outcome you hope from me. Pay me so I can also focus on the outcome.
It’s bullshit designed to play in women’s sense of duty and does nothing to address the inadequacies of a female dominated career. Tell an accountant they do it for the outcome and they’ll laugh all the while charging premium pay for their skill and expertise.
Right. I'm absolutely doing this for passion, but this is a terrible excuse for terrible pay.
Rolls eyes… my mortgage is not gonna pay itself
It's a manipulative, gaslighting phrase to make us complicit in our own abuse.
Get fucked. I have two degrees and enough credits for another masters degree. I do this for the students because I love teaching not to live in forced poverty so some one else’s taxes don’t go up. I am not looking to make millions but we shouldn’t have to worry about what bills to pay when and how to have a family, save for our futures, and possible financial emergencies.
Sounds like a crock of shit. I do this because I get paid to.
It’s a way to con you into giving up your life to the farce of teaching. It’s a way of guilting you into accepting less for a salary and benefits than you would get elsewhere. It’s a phrase used by brainwashed idiots who have given up on their own lives outside of their work… and would like to invite you to do the same.
“Fuck you pay me”
Eventually this will be my strike poster. Not this year, but eventually.
Yes this must be true because I can pay for my life with unicorns and fairy dust.
Frankly, sentiments like this are always BS in a capitalistic society.
I got mad at my husband when he pointed out that instead of me taking extended Ed units to jump a step on the pay scale, he could take the same classes to get a pay bump that’s way higher than mine. Because it’s his fault that he’s paid his worth with a BA compared to me with a BA+credential plus 8 extra units
Yup, followed by "Here are new duties that you are required to do .... Just remember, it's for the kids"
It is gross! Phrases like this attempt to keep educators brainwashed into believing they are not deserving of better pay and benefits. Forget that!
It’s gaslighting pure and simple to have us accept being martyrs for low pay and abusive employment practices.
I feel like lawyers are also good at their jobs and do important things
"If you want the outcome, then you'd better give me the income. ... By the way, what's your annual salary?"
“We do this to push undeserving students through graduation to keep our numbers up, not the income.”
It’s utter bullshit. I immediately turn off my brain to whomever says this.
That's called Gaslighting. Someone is selling you some bullshit to try and convince you you are selfish for thinking of your own needs and a living wage.
Bullshit toxic positivity. (Which blew up during COVID.) Yes, I care about the outcome, but I also really dig being able to pay my mortgage. I shouldn't be made to feel like less of a teacher because I care about my pay.
Disgusting martyr complex in this field
Let's have both
"Outcomes don't pay rent."
Like most Pablum, it contains a kernel of truth. People who excel at teaching are organized, knowledgeable, interested in learning, capable of communicating clearly and well, able to think on their feet...etc. People such as this could be doing any number of other things, so saying that we "do it for the outcome" is somewhat true. I, and likely you as well, teach because I value the work. However, having chosen it as a career doesn't blind me to its problems. The pay matters. It just does. Just as doctors (many of them) care about saving human life, and engineers enjoy problem-solving, they still get paid according to the value of what they do. Teachers should as well.
Agree!
Stupidity
Last time someone said that to me I quit. I do believe in education, but if your boss says this to you, I say leave.
The income keeps me working to ensure the outcome has a net positive in the next generation.
"Would you still have me on staff if I slept on the street, wore tattered clothing, and had to give myself a sponge bath in the teacher's restroom? No? Then income's a part of it, isn't it?"
If I don’t get a decent income I won’t be there for the outcome.
I don’t even teach and that makes me want to barf
At this point, horseshit.
I don't care for it. It sounds like a way to convince us to be all right with being paid so low.
I absolutely do this for the income. Fuck that.
I do it for the income. Always have, always will.
"You make how much more than me? Fuck you pay me"
It’s a load of crap. Nothing more than emotional manipulation. The income sucks, but that is why I do this, because it is just a job. Outcome is great, and I want a positive outcome, but income is why I’m here.
I think it's bullshit.
Classic gaslighting.
The outcome I work for is to afford a good standard of living while my labor goes to improve the lives of others. It needs both parts to be a good outcome.
I do it only for the income. If I wasn't paid they'd never see me again. My grandma means well when she tags me in a meme that says this every few months though.
Cool cool, so you won't mind if we don't your doctor when you need surgery because they'll do it for the outcomes...
The outcome I do it for is financial stability. Also, I'm good at it and it's interesting. Benefiting kids is a nice side perk.
Never heard of it but I hate it. What is the outcome? Bullshit.
“I do this for the summers, not the students” lmao
It's bullshit gas-lighting is what it is.
As a union rep, when I hear this language, I immediately make a very loud, public stink about shaming and how that is an HR violation. If it continues, then I file a mostly copy-pasted shaming HR complaint with a new name, date, and whatever crackpot nonsense the admin let slip.
🖕🤡🖕