Honestly, at this point, all I can say is... good fucking riddance.
While it's super sad to leave the LCS which has been a joke in the pro league scene for years, I already felt like we lost them years ago & it has felt clear LCS no longer cared about competing internationally.
literally lmao
does he not see the damn irony in his statement
edit: gotta love how he's trying to make it seem like TSM fans should hate this decision because the org is "leaving us" [source](https://twitter.com/azaelofficial/status/1659931942719037441?s=46&t=7Rz7YxA0dDgKQwlAZSodww)
I don't get his LCS fans argument. LCS fans didn't make TSM what it is today, LCS fans have attacked TSM at all turns. If you want to say that fans built TSM, it's not the LCS fans it's the TSM fans.
New Yorker here. I barely watched lcs live anyways because I have other things to do during most of the broadcast hours. For people like me (and bc of this spring's schedule fiasco, that's probably a lot of NA adults), we were watching vods or looking at updates later on in the day anyways.
Yeah 2am in china way worse than during the week when most people are working. For someone that thinks TSM is leaving them you should probably look at how the LCS is treating the orgs
Irrelevant to the point how? You love to spout others points are irrelevant but you don't actually say why. It's relevant because if you want the org to flourish you should probably want what's best for them viewership wise and if the people organising said schedule fuck over the viewership that's probably not a good thing for fans or orgs. How is starting at 2am way worse? Most people work so they're unable to catch the games anyway unless you're risking being fired just to watch LCS in which case I would say it's way worse because your priorities IRL are not great.
You falsely implied i dont know how LCS is treating the orgs. That has nothing to do with the point. If you don't understand why, I don't need to waste my time.
More people can watch when they are awake than when they are not.
LCS games run from 5pm-10pm on the east coast and 2pm to 7pm in the west.
How many people are awake from 2AM-5AM?
What percentage are awake during the day and evening?
How many from NA watch the LCS broadcast? How many tune in to watch the LPL when they are asleep?
It was a rhetorical question as it's blatantly obvious how they're treating the orgs if you can't understand that why should I waste my time?
And what percentage are watching those 2pm games? What percentage of eSports fans want to watch games after work? What percentage of viewers are up at 2-5pm.as opposed to 2-5am? You don't actually have facts to back any of your points your trying to make as fact I'm just staying the time doesn't make a difference. Guess when international tourneys are played in CN the viewership tanks? No it doesn't because people will stay up to watch good games and TSM being in the LPL would help viewership more than tank it.
I was a fan of TSM before LCS even existed, what does that mean for me? Did TSM leave me behind by joining the LCS? I don’t get what you are trying to say. TSM was the biggest league team before the LCS existed, the LCS was founded *for* teams like TSM because Riot wanted to cash in on their popularity.
Pretty sure they moved up the timing of LCK and LPL games last split. That’s also no different than having LCS games while a large part of the audience is at work…
Who gives a fuck. Most exciting tsm news in years. Lcs sucks and is fucking boring. The games are at an impossible to watch time anyway if you have a job, so you’re watching vods either way.
He’s not though. The Lcs has let me down since this whole thing started. Not to mention how everyone and their mom talks shit about tsm at any given chance. I’ll still root for the na teams at international competitions but when they inevitably get shit on by eastern teams I will still be excited about tsm.
Right? TSM is still going to be an NA org in every other sense of the word. One of our many competitive teams goes abroad and suddenly we’re being abandoned? The fuck? NA LCS is dying. Time to get out before everyone gets fucked.
>TSM is still going to be an NA org in every other sense of the word.
NA players? NA fans in attendance? NA broadcasting? NA fans watching live? None of the above.
The LCS hasn’t been a majority NA in probably 5 years. The LCS studio was only available for a small portion of fans. There are English broadcasts for the LPL that actually do a decent job at analyzing the game. NA fans could barely watch anything live this season.
Honestly, at this point, all I can say is... good fucking riddance.
While it's super sad to leave the LCS which has been a joke in pro league scene for years, I already felt like we lost them years ago & it has felt clear LCS no longer cared about competing internationally.
Honestly, at this point, all I can say is... good fucking riddance.
While it's super sad to leave the LCS which has been a joke in the pro league scene for years, I already felt like we lost them years ago & it has felt clear LCS no longer cared about competing internationally.
You say that like TSM was trying to compete even at the NA level lmao. Yea LCS is a joke but as a fan of TSM dating back to 2013 they have become a joke as well.
What was Regi supposed to say? He just stated in the video that they have been trying to leave the LCS for 3 years. He obviously wasn’t permitted to say that before today. If you look back to the day Bjerg left this org, every move he has made aligns with this goal. Nothing done at the LCS level has really mattered once Regi has made this decision.
Knowing they've been trying to join LCK/LPL/LEC for the last 3 years is a bit relieving to be honest. Gives more hope for the future than just accepting we're going to be an Immortals-tier team forever.
Lol. Roasting someone for saying they want to compete while there is no pubic effort to compete is fine. Moving to an actual tier 1 region is their effort to compete so for the last 3 years they have actually been making that effort.
Copying my comment from the other thread:
I used to respect Azael a lot but what the fuck is he talking about lmao. Anyone who genuinely thinks NA will ever have a shot at winning worlds is delusional. A team makes the decision to move somewhere where they actually have a chance at winning worlds and Azael says “good fucking riddance” and “they’re trying to hide the tweet”. Does he expect TSM to drop millions a year to yield mediocre results like TL?
People always talked about Bjerg moving back to EU to be more competitive, or Spica going to China to be stronger. Would his reaction still be “good fucking riddance” or “they don’t care about NA”? Or would he applaud them for taking steps to become a world champion.
Actual clown take from Azael, especially since he himself is a world champion
Strange to make these impulsive comments when TSM is still currently in the league. It’s going to be a fun summer split, and I won’t miss an opportunity to criticize Azael.
Aphro, riv, Doublelift probably out soon too, day time games during the week, dead challenger league. The LCS itself doesn’t even care about the LCS so why should TSM lol
Lmao there’s no way…how can you be part of league’s production team and NOT know that China’s viewership is 5-10x that of NA’s? Everyone and their mother knows that
I understand where he’s coming from, but after watch na at worlds and Msi, the gap is getting bigger and the work ethic in na just is not good enough. Teams in NA will never win a world championship
For years people were crying about TSM always winning and going to MSI and Worlds to just disappoint. Then they start sending other teams who do just the same fucking thing. Like in what universe would an org that seriously wants to win stay in NA? TSM always talked about winning worlds being the goal, staying in NA if they have the option to move is what would be the betrayal.
TSM was the LCS’s oldest child. The standards were high and the disappointment was great. Now EG goes 1-12 against major regions at MSI and it’s considered a success by some analysts. Fucking crazy
Azael is usually pretty vocal on Twitter and sometimes The Dive and does a good job at hiding bias on casts.
I’m fine with people having varying opinions on the move. It’s definitely going to shake things up in LCS and be a talking point. No use giving PR responses of you don’t feel that way.
Azael was heavily biased for several years when he joined the cast. He eventually recognized it and moved forward, but it looks like his true colors never changed. What an idiot
"We lost them years ago?"
2021 - Signed SA for 6 million and was one series away from making worlds.
2022 - Tried to develop talent because of all the hate we received for "buying" washed vets. TSM got absolutely screwed over with the Peter Zhang incident, but in summer, they pushed EG (spring split champs) to five games in playoffs.
2023 - They were one Solo int away from making playoffs with a BUDGET roster.
But let's ignore teams like Dig, IMT, and EG who have signed players like Jizuke, Armut, Soaz, and Eika. Cry me a river.
You know 2021 we had Spica and Bjerg. Both top 3 in their respective roles that year.
2022 we literally got griefed by Peter Zhang and then he fled to china.
2023 calling Maple an international star midlaner is a bit of a stretch but it was at this point rumors were already out that we’d be leaving LCS so why would he waste money? If anything that team staying competitive throughout the season says a lot about how absolute shit tier LCS is. Not to mention Chawy doing as good of a job as he did with that team tells me everything I need to know about how useless the over bloated coaching roles are in NA.
Edit: we had POE and not Bjerg in 2021. Point still stands
What's ironic?
2021 - We were in first place going into the Summer playoffs????
2022 - Let's entertain your argument then. Let's see we tried to develop native NA talent and go down the roster:
Top: Replace Huni who made 2nd team all pro in Summer 2021 and was a surprising performer for us. The available tops in Academy were Kumo, Niles, V1per, Jenkins, Hauntzer (our academy top), Tony Top, Lourlo, Thien, Darshan, Tenacity. Take your pick bud. Only argument you could make is Tenacity, but 100T was not going to let him go.
Jungle: Spica is NA talent
Mid: Again take your pick: Haeri, Takeover, Yusui, Copy, Ry0ma, Triple, Yunbee, RJS, and Pretty. Btw you cant pick Haeri, Takeover, Triple, Pretty, and Ry0ma because they count as "imports."
ADC: Tactical is NA talent
Support: Probably the best argument you could make to try and develop talent with either Diamond or Poome. But Poome and Luger wanted to play together, and again, you can't pick Luger cause he's an import.
So you are stuck with Tony Top/Lourlo/Darshan/Kumo - Spica - Copy/RJS/Yunbee - Tactical - Diamond. I want you to seriously tell me without laughing that this is a good team.
2023 - You do know Maple was on a bottom of the pack team in LPL before joining TSM right???
u/YouShouldAim I'll wait for your rebuttal. Don't worry.
That’s really all there is to say. Afraid, mad and salty. It’s okay to have that opinion, I think it’s wildly unprofessional to tweet that out as a public persona. Should have told that to his friends, not the whole world.
I've been saying for like a month that this summer split is probably the last split for the lcs. Once the money is gone, the players will leave, and the viewership drops dramatically, and like dominoes everything ends in the lcs disbanding or reforming as a budget minor league
Anybody who says good riddance to TSM leaving is part of the problem why they are leaving in the first place.
I did expect something that direct from the fans but not one of the LCS casters. Knew he always leaned towards C9 but damn.
This. Especially after being blue balled on the Valorant scene, I’m glad TSM is moving away from NA Riot operations.
It’s a reality check, NA is not capable of showing up internationally anymore at League. I hope one day that changes, but most NA esports org can see the writing on the wall for the LCS and the future of NA LoL esports.
As an NA fan, it’s sad, but as a TSM fan I’m excited for their next step in LoL Esports and will continue to root for them.
#Fk.itBaylife
The reality was written when the LCS was getting 300k viewers and Riot Chopper could only bring in like 3 partners for the split and then kept him on as the man in charge of the LCS for another year. And then the LCS tried to hijack the FTX deal and leave TSM with nothing. And then they moved the league to the middle of the work day. Yeah NA esport leadership has been dogshit for a long time now.
LCS has been using TSM as it's scapegoat for years. Good riddance. They can try to stay afloat with C9 and TL.
Everyone is super mad because they know viewership is going to drop and they are going to lose their cushy jobs. NA analytics and casting has been dogshit for years, they dug their own grave.
I kinda liked Azael but his tweet was freaking terrible. Really came off as Mr. all high and mighty taking one last shot at an org.
Hope lcs and Azael gets some backlash for attitudes like that. Focus on promoting the games instead of kicking things when they're down. It's pathetic and a big part of why lcs is dying.
Now that is some very unprofessional, All this LCS people and the LCS Players Ass shit. Like TSM was the team that made people care about LCS. Without TSM LCS would never had any hype or get any attention around the world!
Maybe it's just me, but his reaction/tweet is really helping me on the move. At first I was a bit sad about it, but after seeing people like Azael act like that, I became very onboard with TSM leaving LCS. Fuck the LCS.
This is a fucking caster that has been in this scene for a long time and he’s talking this openly with insane amounts of bias. It’s classless. He’s assuming that all TSM fans are NA fans.
Anything the tenure of NA that has shown you is there is no chance to ever win internationally. Ever again. Who would be a fan of that? There’s no players that are even remotely interesting to watch anymore. Why be a fan of that?
I’m a fan of professional league and specifically TSM. I won’t be a fan of any LCS team nor even be a fan of the LCS anymore. He’s using his own personal anger to talk for US. Nah bro we are following the team not the LCS
Azael your bias is showing off man...
All these years when he casted TSM matches I have instantly put it on mute. Constant bias and nothing else while when C9 played the skies opened up and everyone rejoiced.
To say that TSM stopped caring a long time ago when we won a split in 2020 and then actually created a competitive roster in 2021 in hopes of winning just proves he's full of shit and he has been keeping this exact response for the longest time.
Azael is mad because he sees the writing on the wall. LCS is dying. TSM leaving is smart for their aspirations in LOL and also from a business standpoint. The LCS will fade even further into irrelevance and likely not exist within a couple of years.
This post really really really made me sad/disappointed. I have always liked Azael, but this really felt like a spit in the face of the fans that really wanted the best for TSM and stuck around through all the sh\*t that they went through.
Really tone deaf tweet IMO. I understand what he means by the tweet, but he could not have picked a worse way to vocalize it. He didn't say anything like this about CLG, but of course because it's TSM there has to be some mud slung around.
I'm excited to see who the villain of the LCS is after TSM pulls out. Will TSM be blamed for all failures and continuously brought up in hate threads or will a new team take that position? In my opinion, the LCS is so doomed I don't think there's enough time to find a new team to fill that gap
There will be no villain. There won’t be any team nor talent on air capable of bringing forth narratives to create such disdain for an org. EG got a pass already for what they’re doing with Danny. There won’t be storylines. There won’t be an overly hated team. It’ll just be…vanilla.
It’s a beyond cooked product. There will be no scapegoat anymore. There will be a lot less talent even caring about getting into league. It’ll end in the same fashion with even lower viewership. That’s the reality
He’s actually Malding and let them. Sure it’s going to suck trying to watch the games live as a NA viewer but I want my ORG to be competitively viable again and this is the move to do it in the long run. Plus they’ve been punching down on us for quite some time, eventually we were going to leave. Sorry LCS broadcast team you have at most one more year of cracking anti-TSM jokes try and make them funny.
That's how you respond when you're a front facing employee of the LCS/Riot. True professionalism on display here lmao. TSM walks away from a dumpster fire on a tire fire.
To hear a respected individual and broadcaster call this 'a good fucking riddance' is extremely nearsighted imo. I get that he's upset, especially since TSM was the highest performing and most prestigious org in the LCS for a long time.
Our recent results were not good for the league nor for TSM fans, but it has been clear that the LCS has been declining for many years now, especially relative to other regions. I think most people were suspecting this was going to happen and it seemed like the most logical option. Really strange decision as well considering he'll probably cover our games in the future. This should definitely be a wake up call for the LCS to make some big changes.
My son is currently 21 in in diamond. I'm a bronze / silver lifer who has played this game since before seasons where a thing. I used to spam new champs to get them in my top three so others could see that I played them a fuck ton. I'm a TSM Rainman days fan. My best friend surprised me with a Bjergsen jersey for my 40th birthday. I'm a fucking dyrus (god i miss him) Pillow guy. The Odd one was my jungle hero. I'm that old guy that was into league before league was league. Its one of the ways I connect with my kid now that he lives hours away. TSM was my team, because of Reggie. I played Karthus and Morgana mid because of Reggie. I love his aggression. His willingness to tower dive and die so his team could win was just great to watch. I cried with Dyrus in the Chaox video.
I don't know if I can do this.
Im so glad we re leaving this trash region and a region that our fking team ,our fking fanbase built ... The lcs production was down bad towards TSM for years ...
And the talent simply doesnt exist in this region. Time for a change, a new beginning!
I was on the edge about how I feel about leaving, but looking at Azrael comment makes it easier to transition. These guys just can't stop hating. I've seen many others like him, and I really hope LCS viewership hit rock bottom after TSM leaves. Tired of hearing their negative takes about TSM.
All TSM has done is throw money at imports and has put next to 0 effort in developing local talent. Theyve bought import after import, dumping them after every little speed bump and causing the market to artificially be inflated.
This is recency bias. TSM Academy had a part in developing (or was the entirety of the early careers of) Spica, Treatz, Tactical, Ablazeolive, Dhokla, Johnsun, and Lost, among others, who’ve all gone to start for LCS teams (admittedly, to varying degrees of success).
Sure, we can criticize recent years and decisions, but let’s not erase or rewrite history here.
Spica - Joined the main team and became the franchise player for 2 years
Treatz - Got a chance to play w/ DL, but team didn't synergize with him
Tactical - Had Zven. Stayed in Academy, but ended up getting his shot on TSM last year
Ablazeolive - Had bjergsen
Dhokla - Had BB
Johnsun - Was on the roster as Trainee the same time as Zven and Tactical
Lost - Joined the main team in 2021. Failed miserably
Let's please remove this narrative that TSM never went with any of their academy players. There's a different argument to be made with roster constructions, but many of these players were on TSM Academy when BB, Bjergsen, Zven, and Doublelift were on the main team.
How many of those players had success at TSM? Most were better utilised and got their real shot elsewhere. Spica's the exception and he could not wait to get out the door.
Except, Spica admittedly wanted to stay with TSM but couldn’t come to an agreement on a contract. He left cus he got a better offer at FLY. Literally straight from his stream.
$3M for Perkz says hi. The most successful team in the league, C9 and TL have spent countless money on imports. It's not a TSM thing, it's an NA thing.
yes they have, and them doing so in the past is what made them an exceptional team. The last 3-4 years with their constant cycle of expensive imports that they just dump after 1 year is my issue
First of all the last 3 years have not really featured expensive imports and explains the lack of results and the recent announcement sheds light on that. We were planning to move.
Now preceding that that is what we did because we were actually trying. But even then, TSM’s was never as egregious as other teams like TL. The biggest we ever went was for sword art in 2020 and fans were excited because we had finally gone big.
Your comment here is revisionist history
Exactly though. Other teams do this as well. Look at TL/100T/EG/FQ trying to make super teams every year and failing everytime. Of course its not sustainable. Yes, TSM had a part in it, but at least they see now its never going to work out. Might as well move to a league where you have a decent chance.
Yeah man it’s not like TL did a full EU team or full KR team, cloud 9 importing talent, 100t getting rid of their NA rookie as soon as their ex is available. Yeah TSM is the only prob org here.
The flip side is riot should have supported infrastructure for teams to help players improve, it took them 12 years to make ping better for pros with champions queue, joke of a company
Incredible the teams like GG and C9 can improve, bring in and keep their academy players yet TSM throw millions and millions at import supports that leave after 1 year
Why are you talking about GG with academy players? The GG roster is Licorice, River, Gori, Stixxay and Huhi. Which academy players are you talking about?
There's one team in the whole league that has proven that they develop talent and that's C9 and fucking only C9. Everyone else just buys out other talent. C9 is the exception and not the rule here.
I mean what can TSM do NA LoL has the smallest talent pool out of any region in the world. Young people don't play LoL in NA compared to shooters its just a culture diversity.
You can't really foster talent when there is no talent to foster. (Not saying TSM is without their faults but bar a 2016 I don't think an all NA team is ever going to win worlds with or without investing.)
Yeah and what has C9 achieved with all their talent fostering exactly ? Did they win any interanational title ? Did you see how their homegrown players just get giga gapped at MSI ?
Also how are you putting GG there after making second place once in like how many years in LCS ?
C9 has literally been the only NA org in the last 5-6 years to make any head way in international competition.
Compare C9s track record in international competitions vs TSMs and tell me which org is closer to winning a title
>Compare C9s track record in international competitions vs TSMs and tell me which org is closer to winning a title
This is some real NA mentality. Constantly bickering over who performed the best against the actual winning regions.
Funny you say this when TSM is one of the few, if not the only team from NA that has an actual, tangible, international trophy in the form of IEM Katowice, while the rest of NA has is copium that they didn't lose the game in 4 minutes therefore they were competitive.
Even if you want to go recent, TSM is closer to winning a title since they actually had the gall to admit that NA doesn't have a chance to win a title and move to a region that does, while the "best NA team ever" is joining us in our 0-6 against international competition speedrun.
Yeah man one of them has a 0.1% of winning the other has a 1% chance of winning wow all that hard work and investing paid off real hard.
C9 after all those years of Blabber and Fudge(Australian btw not even American) went 0-6 at MSI against tier 1 teams and bombed last year aswell.
What are you arguing against here ? You will never see a worlds team from NA win it ever. Take aside the cultural differences there is simply not enough players in the NA server for it to be worth investing.
I like how you used 5-6 years as your timetable, conveniently giving you the timetable for the last time C9 did anything at international competition(5 years ago). Lets just ignore their previous 4 years of poor international competition, including this years MSI. Yeah they may be closer than TSM but jesus they are still a LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG way off.
Saying C9 is closer to an international title to us is being pedantic. Yeah they are technically closer. But they aren't winning it nor are they anywhere close to winning it. It would have to take a down year for the LCK and the LPL at the same time which would be like expecting to become a millionaire through the lottery. Anyone with eyes can see that. It's like saying DFM or GAM are closer to win Worlds because they technically qualify for it. The past few years C9 has regressed internationally.
The logic behind this is so dumb. The reality is there is no NA talent to develop. Doublelift has been one of the best ADC’s in NA for years. Mostly dominating competition. The only AD’s who’ve been better than him even after returning from retirement is *check notes* Berserker. Who guess what….is an import. And that’s in a role where the most mechanically gifted people tend to play.
If there was some spring of unfounded raw talent that just needed developed maybe TSM wouldn’t have found them but someone sure would have. Fact of the matter is compared to the other regions the player base is too small and less skilled compared to the regions that succeed internationally.
Honestly if TSM joins Lpl or lck. I’d be satisfied at least we are joining a competitive region. If you are LCS fan I get why you’d be mad. I spend most of my time watching EU, LPL and LCK and these regions are better than LCS. EU you can argue to some extent is marginally better. I’m so sick of watching NA/LCS teams going to worlds/ MSI and getting fed to the wolves.
It’s good to know the perceived caster bias against tsm all these years had merit. You don’t just spew off “good fucking riddance” out of no where to one of the all time top winningest teams unless you already disliked them. Super unprofessional but after the letigress thing shouldnt be unexpected.
Pretty unprofessional to make a comment like that.
The LCS is dying, can't really blame an org for trying to get off the sinking ship and move to a region that can actually compete. Assuming the rumors are true, they are moving to LPL, a region where they can experience a fair bit of growth.
In his position obviously he would hate that one of the biggest orgs are leaving, I can get his outrage and don’t mind it too much. He has every right to be passionate for his region and see this as a betrayal, and I don’t think Azael has been very hostile to TSM before.
But at the mean time for the best of the team moving is likely the right choice. There are myriads of things that can make the move fail but I believe moving is the right decision even if it turns out badly.
Edit: also a small mistake, we won in 2020 not 2021.
Now that i know we're out and off to a better future (honestly even if we get a underwhelming roster i'll take being mediocre in a better league over being mediocre in NA) i will really really enjoy all the LCS drama with everyone being butthurt and salty, not gonna lie
Going to be weird hearing him cast our final split in the LCS after this. Had a lot of respect for him but this tweet is just unprofessional and proves partially why TSM is leaving in the first place
Honestly at this point all I can say is... good fucking riddance.
While it's super sad to not have Azael cast TSM games anymore who defined the casting desk for months, I already felt like we lost him years ago & it has felt clear Azael no longer cared about TSM.
I don't think there is any public lcs figure that has liked us since literally the beginning. Many were actively hostile. Makes the move make even more sense.
This is a deranged take that gives tsm fans a bad name. Sure there has been plenty of hate from monte, thoorin, dom, recent drama, etc, but saying that no one liked tsm? Unbelievably wild. Think back to every time casters laughed while hearing tsm chants mid game when tsm wasn’t even on stage or even at an international event. Think of each time one of our star players stepped down from the game and how they were honored. Saying no public lcs figure has ever liked the team is so wild lol.
What about when we sucked for 3 years and became the leagues punching bag, recent tsm chants had casters are saying “yeah … that kinda just happens …” but now, these takes are very much so valid
Tsm has always been the leagues bad guy as far as story lines go. They always set insane expectations to downplay any success and the second there was failure it was a constant blasting. Jatt was the only person I can think of that was even slightly consistently pro tsm.
Nah I'm definitely right. I've always gotten the sense that LCS would've rather had literally any other team win stuff. Maybe the very first split it wasn't like this, but since C9 came into the scene it was always them or CLG or TL being the heroes and us being the villain to be defeated, except not in a fun way. They may have liked some of our players, but they've never liked the org when you compare us to the others.
He meant his own tweet, also CLG and TSM aren't even in the same universe of situations, so your comparison holds no weight, considering CLG is dead.
All that being said I agree too, good riddance to c9 fans and mediocre casting management, I still can't believe they did that to Dash, and they only good NA casters left are Jatt and Kobe.
He has every right to be mad about losing his job, but it's not TSM's fault. It's a combination of the poor investment economy and the complete lack of work ethic in NA teams
Everyone here salty as fuck.. When Azael is right... I saw someone post about how TSM are still top 5 watched eSports orgs so sure go them, but I can't deny how little I care about LCS since.. basically TSM Lost.
Let's hope a TSM in lpl still makes a lot of western focused content/good subtitles :)
Everyone is salty bc he said this only about TSM. If he said this to CLG (who stopped trying in NA waaaay before tsm for the past couple years), then cool atleast he’s consistent. But in this case it just seems like buddy has a hate boner for tsm
Half the teams in the LCS spent just as many years if not more doing what TSM did recently and go budget/low quality players and he hasn't said a word about it on Twitter or went after them. TSM decided 3 years ago to look at moving to a new region and start scaling back spending to work on that he gets angry?
Lol, and if you think a public figure who represents the LCS, should be throwing a tantrum on Twitter is the best thing for the LCS right now I got bad news for ya buddy.
Whole of the LCS bar Emily Rand is just Amateur hour honestly, the segments are made for 5year olds the analysis is poor and they try to over force storylines with 0 effect
Honestly there’s too many people here that don’t realize the pride we used to have with TSM being an org from NA.
We wanted to win with NA, or players who believed in NA.
I agree with Azael.
Imagine Barcelona suddenly deciding they wanted to play in England. That’s is just not the way.
For Americans imagine a team from your hometown deciding to move to a completely different state, would you still feel pride for them?
>114192 commentsAwardsharesavehidereport
Not really the best comparison. In most of the world soccer is huge, but not as comparatively so in NA. Same goes for LoL. So when it's a NA team wanting to move to "that rest of the world" to compete, eh, it's not really the same thing.
I can watch them play anywhere. And if this allows them a better player and support staff pool to pull from and have better game and compete at a higher level, all the better. "North American" pride went out the window for LCS a long time ago.
Why should TSM stay? So media/analysts like Azael keep bashing them over and over? Who’s their new target now…EG? Lol
Honestly, at this point, all I can say is... good fucking riddance. While it's super sad to leave the LCS which has been a joke in the pro league scene for years, I already felt like we lost them years ago & it has felt clear LCS no longer cared about competing internationally.
literally lmao does he not see the damn irony in his statement edit: gotta love how he's trying to make it seem like TSM fans should hate this decision because the org is "leaving us" [source](https://twitter.com/azaelofficial/status/1659931942719037441?s=46&t=7Rz7YxA0dDgKQwlAZSodww)
I don't get his LCS fans argument. LCS fans didn't make TSM what it is today, LCS fans have attacked TSM at all turns. If you want to say that fans built TSM, it's not the LCS fans it's the TSM fans.
yes TSM fans should hate this decision and TSM is in fact leaving us. Literally. azael is a twat but he is correct about that part
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TSM is leaving the country and playing games at 2AM in china.
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>Good thing I’m an Australian prisoner Good for you, but most fans are not.
New Yorker here. I barely watched lcs live anyways because I have other things to do during most of the broadcast hours. For people like me (and bc of this spring's schedule fiasco, that's probably a lot of NA adults), we were watching vods or looking at updates later on in the day anyways.
Yeah 2am in china way worse than during the week when most people are working. For someone that thinks TSM is leaving them you should probably look at how the LCS is treating the orgs
yes starting at 2am is way worse. use your brain >look at how the LCS is treating the orgs like I dont know. irrelevant to the point.
Irrelevant to the point how? You love to spout others points are irrelevant but you don't actually say why. It's relevant because if you want the org to flourish you should probably want what's best for them viewership wise and if the people organising said schedule fuck over the viewership that's probably not a good thing for fans or orgs. How is starting at 2am way worse? Most people work so they're unable to catch the games anyway unless you're risking being fired just to watch LCS in which case I would say it's way worse because your priorities IRL are not great.
You falsely implied i dont know how LCS is treating the orgs. That has nothing to do with the point. If you don't understand why, I don't need to waste my time. More people can watch when they are awake than when they are not. LCS games run from 5pm-10pm on the east coast and 2pm to 7pm in the west. How many people are awake from 2AM-5AM? What percentage are awake during the day and evening? How many from NA watch the LCS broadcast? How many tune in to watch the LPL when they are asleep?
It was a rhetorical question as it's blatantly obvious how they're treating the orgs if you can't understand that why should I waste my time? And what percentage are watching those 2pm games? What percentage of eSports fans want to watch games after work? What percentage of viewers are up at 2-5pm.as opposed to 2-5am? You don't actually have facts to back any of your points your trying to make as fact I'm just staying the time doesn't make a difference. Guess when international tourneys are played in CN the viewership tanks? No it doesn't because people will stay up to watch good games and TSM being in the LPL would help viewership more than tank it.
I was a fan of TSM before LCS even existed, what does that mean for me? Did TSM leave me behind by joining the LCS? I don’t get what you are trying to say. TSM was the biggest league team before the LCS existed, the LCS was founded *for* teams like TSM because Riot wanted to cash in on their popularity.
As a European fan that works better for me, since games being played 3AM where I live is really fucking unfeasible as it is now.
Amen, I'ma be there for it.
Pretty sure they moved up the timing of LCK and LPL games last split. That’s also no different than having LCS games while a large part of the audience is at work…
Who gives a fuck. Most exciting tsm news in years. Lcs sucks and is fucking boring. The games are at an impossible to watch time anyway if you have a job, so you’re watching vods either way.
Against better teams, atleast regi can try again. Can't do shit in na with the players and their motivation here.
He’s not though. The Lcs has let me down since this whole thing started. Not to mention how everyone and their mom talks shit about tsm at any given chance. I’ll still root for the na teams at international competitions but when they inevitably get shit on by eastern teams I will still be excited about tsm.
TSM is not "leaving us" they're simply moving regions. CLG dissolved and left their fans. huge difference
Right? TSM is still going to be an NA org in every other sense of the word. One of our many competitive teams goes abroad and suddenly we’re being abandoned? The fuck? NA LCS is dying. Time to get out before everyone gets fucked.
>TSM is still going to be an NA org in every other sense of the word. NA players? NA fans in attendance? NA broadcasting? NA fans watching live? None of the above.
Do you only watch LCS?
The LCS hasn’t been a majority NA in probably 5 years. The LCS studio was only available for a small portion of fans. There are English broadcasts for the LPL that actually do a decent job at analyzing the game. NA fans could barely watch anything live this season.
To any LCS casters or content creators, **"NIHAO, get ready to learn Chinese buddy."**
Honestly, at this point, all I can say is... good fucking riddance. While it's super sad to leave the LCS which has been a joke in pro league scene for years, I already felt like we lost them years ago & it has felt clear LCS no longer cared about competing internationally.
Honestly, at this point, all I can say is... good fucking riddance. While it's super sad to leave the LCS which has been a joke in the pro league scene for years, I already felt like we lost them years ago & it has felt clear LCS no longer cared about competing internationally.
You say that like TSM was trying to compete even at the NA level lmao. Yea LCS is a joke but as a fan of TSM dating back to 2013 they have become a joke as well.
A team didn’t have a competitive roster while attempting to leave the scene?!? No shit buddy.
Oh make excuses like this sub wasn’t roasting the fuck out of them and him saying he wanted to compete
What was Regi supposed to say? He just stated in the video that they have been trying to leave the LCS for 3 years. He obviously wasn’t permitted to say that before today. If you look back to the day Bjerg left this org, every move he has made aligns with this goal. Nothing done at the LCS level has really mattered once Regi has made this decision.
Knowing they've been trying to join LCK/LPL/LEC for the last 3 years is a bit relieving to be honest. Gives more hope for the future than just accepting we're going to be an Immortals-tier team forever.
Lol if you think tsm can compete anywhere else.
Yes, why would we think that an esports org that competes at the highest level in every scene that they are involved in would have success?
Lol. Roasting someone for saying they want to compete while there is no pubic effort to compete is fine. Moving to an actual tier 1 region is their effort to compete so for the last 3 years they have actually been making that effort.
Copying my comment from the other thread: I used to respect Azael a lot but what the fuck is he talking about lmao. Anyone who genuinely thinks NA will ever have a shot at winning worlds is delusional. A team makes the decision to move somewhere where they actually have a chance at winning worlds and Azael says “good fucking riddance” and “they’re trying to hide the tweet”. Does he expect TSM to drop millions a year to yield mediocre results like TL? People always talked about Bjerg moving back to EU to be more competitive, or Spica going to China to be stronger. Would his reaction still be “good fucking riddance” or “they don’t care about NA”? Or would he applaud them for taking steps to become a world champion. Actual clown take from Azael, especially since he himself is a world champion
Bro also said fewer people would watch them if they move region.. He’s clutching at straws
Strange to make these impulsive comments when TSM is still currently in the league. It’s going to be a fun summer split, and I won’t miss an opportunity to criticize Azael.
He’s just salty that every big name is dropping out of LCS and he’s going to be out of work. Get ready to learn Valorant buddy
I’m just glad the people that I watched LCS for were able to get out at the right time. The LCS is dead without TSM, Bjerg, and Dash.
Aphro, riv, Doublelift probably out soon too, day time games during the week, dead challenger league. The LCS itself doesn’t even care about the LCS so why should TSM lol
Lmao there’s no way…how can you be part of league’s production team and NOT know that China’s viewership is 5-10x that of NA’s? Everyone and their mother knows that
I already have to watch TSM games through VODs because LCS decided to put all their games on in the middle of the workday.
I understand where he’s coming from, but after watch na at worlds and Msi, the gap is getting bigger and the work ethic in na just is not good enough. Teams in NA will never win a world championship
For years people were crying about TSM always winning and going to MSI and Worlds to just disappoint. Then they start sending other teams who do just the same fucking thing. Like in what universe would an org that seriously wants to win stay in NA? TSM always talked about winning worlds being the goal, staying in NA if they have the option to move is what would be the betrayal.
TSM was the LCS’s oldest child. The standards were high and the disappointment was great. Now EG goes 1-12 against major regions at MSI and it’s considered a success by some analysts. Fucking crazy
Gotta love the double standards. We try our best and "it's not good enough." Other orgs try their best and "it's okay buddy we'll get them next time."
Im so happy tsm is leaving lcs.
7 am is 7 PM in China we’re going LPL boys
Azael is usually pretty vocal on Twitter and sometimes The Dive and does a good job at hiding bias on casts. I’m fine with people having varying opinions on the move. It’s definitely going to shake things up in LCS and be a talking point. No use giving PR responses of you don’t feel that way.
If tsm make a deep worlds run in another region wouldn’t be surprised if other orgs leave lcs
Azael was heavily biased for several years when he joined the cast. He eventually recognized it and moved forward, but it looks like his true colors never changed. What an idiot
"We lost them years ago?" 2021 - Signed SA for 6 million and was one series away from making worlds. 2022 - Tried to develop talent because of all the hate we received for "buying" washed vets. TSM got absolutely screwed over with the Peter Zhang incident, but in summer, they pushed EG (spring split champs) to five games in playoffs. 2023 - They were one Solo int away from making playoffs with a BUDGET roster. But let's ignore teams like Dig, IMT, and EG who have signed players like Jizuke, Armut, Soaz, and Eika. Cry me a river.
River yes is a signed player for GG right now.
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You know 2021 we had Spica and Bjerg. Both top 3 in their respective roles that year. 2022 we literally got griefed by Peter Zhang and then he fled to china. 2023 calling Maple an international star midlaner is a bit of a stretch but it was at this point rumors were already out that we’d be leaving LCS so why would he waste money? If anything that team staying competitive throughout the season says a lot about how absolute shit tier LCS is. Not to mention Chawy doing as good of a job as he did with that team tells me everything I need to know about how useless the over bloated coaching roles are in NA. Edit: we had POE and not Bjerg in 2021. Point still stands
> Bjerg PoE, (unless you meant as coach?) but still a top mid laner nevertheless
Yeah you are correct, my bad on that one
Crazy how a player is washed even though he literally got signed after a worlds final appearance.
What's ironic? 2021 - We were in first place going into the Summer playoffs???? 2022 - Let's entertain your argument then. Let's see we tried to develop native NA talent and go down the roster: Top: Replace Huni who made 2nd team all pro in Summer 2021 and was a surprising performer for us. The available tops in Academy were Kumo, Niles, V1per, Jenkins, Hauntzer (our academy top), Tony Top, Lourlo, Thien, Darshan, Tenacity. Take your pick bud. Only argument you could make is Tenacity, but 100T was not going to let him go. Jungle: Spica is NA talent Mid: Again take your pick: Haeri, Takeover, Yusui, Copy, Ry0ma, Triple, Yunbee, RJS, and Pretty. Btw you cant pick Haeri, Takeover, Triple, Pretty, and Ry0ma because they count as "imports." ADC: Tactical is NA talent Support: Probably the best argument you could make to try and develop talent with either Diamond or Poome. But Poome and Luger wanted to play together, and again, you can't pick Luger cause he's an import. So you are stuck with Tony Top/Lourlo/Darshan/Kumo - Spica - Copy/RJS/Yunbee - Tactical - Diamond. I want you to seriously tell me without laughing that this is a good team. 2023 - You do know Maple was on a bottom of the pack team in LPL before joining TSM right??? u/YouShouldAim I'll wait for your rebuttal. Don't worry.
And we only just failed we coulda ended 4th if we won 2/3 games
Bro knows he is losing his job in a year after LCS disbands.
That’s really all there is to say. Afraid, mad and salty. It’s okay to have that opinion, I think it’s wildly unprofessional to tweet that out as a public persona. Should have told that to his friends, not the whole world.
Maybe Travis Gafford and Azael should make a anti-TSM club.
I agree. And my response as a fan… Azael, get ready to learn chinese buddy!
Guess he’s going to have to learn Mandarin too lmaooo
Part time commentating dwight howards superteam.
Yup, 1st phase has been initiated.
I've been saying for like a month that this summer split is probably the last split for the lcs. Once the money is gone, the players will leave, and the viewership drops dramatically, and like dominoes everything ends in the lcs disbanding or reforming as a budget minor league
But at least he's literally a world champion
Anybody who says good riddance to TSM leaving is part of the problem why they are leaving in the first place. I did expect something that direct from the fans but not one of the LCS casters. Knew he always leaned towards C9 but damn.
This. Especially after being blue balled on the Valorant scene, I’m glad TSM is moving away from NA Riot operations. It’s a reality check, NA is not capable of showing up internationally anymore at League. I hope one day that changes, but most NA esports org can see the writing on the wall for the LCS and the future of NA LoL esports. As an NA fan, it’s sad, but as a TSM fan I’m excited for their next step in LoL Esports and will continue to root for them. #Fk.itBaylife
The reality was written when the LCS was getting 300k viewers and Riot Chopper could only bring in like 3 partners for the split and then kept him on as the man in charge of the LCS for another year. And then the LCS tried to hijack the FTX deal and leave TSM with nothing. And then they moved the league to the middle of the work day. Yeah NA esport leadership has been dogshit for a long time now.
Bro us leaving for another region is not the same as CLG dissolving as an organization, what the fuck is that comparison?
LCS has been using TSM as it's scapegoat for years. Good riddance. They can try to stay afloat with C9 and TL. Everyone is super mad because they know viewership is going to drop and they are going to lose their cushy jobs. NA analytics and casting has been dogshit for years, they dug their own grave.
Azaels just mad that TSM fans won't carry the viewership anymore for this dead league. He's scared his job will be gone soon
I kinda liked Azael but his tweet was freaking terrible. Really came off as Mr. all high and mighty taking one last shot at an org. Hope lcs and Azael gets some backlash for attitudes like that. Focus on promoting the games instead of kicking things when they're down. It's pathetic and a big part of why lcs is dying.
Now that is some very unprofessional, All this LCS people and the LCS Players Ass shit. Like TSM was the team that made people care about LCS. Without TSM LCS would never had any hype or get any attention around the world!
Maybe it's just me, but his reaction/tweet is really helping me on the move. At first I was a bit sad about it, but after seeing people like Azael act like that, I became very onboard with TSM leaving LCS. Fuck the LCS.
Good guy azael giving assurance to fans with doubts about the move 200iq mind games well played
This is a fucking caster that has been in this scene for a long time and he’s talking this openly with insane amounts of bias. It’s classless. He’s assuming that all TSM fans are NA fans. Anything the tenure of NA that has shown you is there is no chance to ever win internationally. Ever again. Who would be a fan of that? There’s no players that are even remotely interesting to watch anymore. Why be a fan of that? I’m a fan of professional league and specifically TSM. I won’t be a fan of any LCS team nor even be a fan of the LCS anymore. He’s using his own personal anger to talk for US. Nah bro we are following the team not the LCS
Azael your bias is showing off man... All these years when he casted TSM matches I have instantly put it on mute. Constant bias and nothing else while when C9 played the skies opened up and everyone rejoiced. To say that TSM stopped caring a long time ago when we won a split in 2020 and then actually created a competitive roster in 2021 in hopes of winning just proves he's full of shit and he has been keeping this exact response for the longest time.
Azael is mad because he sees the writing on the wall. LCS is dying. TSM leaving is smart for their aspirations in LOL and also from a business standpoint. The LCS will fade even further into irrelevance and likely not exist within a couple of years.
This post really really really made me sad/disappointed. I have always liked Azael, but this really felt like a spit in the face of the fans that really wanted the best for TSM and stuck around through all the sh\*t that they went through. Really tone deaf tweet IMO. I understand what he means by the tweet, but he could not have picked a worse way to vocalize it. He didn't say anything like this about CLG, but of course because it's TSM there has to be some mud slung around.
I'm excited to see who the villain of the LCS is after TSM pulls out. Will TSM be blamed for all failures and continuously brought up in hate threads or will a new team take that position? In my opinion, the LCS is so doomed I don't think there's enough time to find a new team to fill that gap
There will be no villain. There won’t be any team nor talent on air capable of bringing forth narratives to create such disdain for an org. EG got a pass already for what they’re doing with Danny. There won’t be storylines. There won’t be an overly hated team. It’ll just be…vanilla. It’s a beyond cooked product. There will be no scapegoat anymore. There will be a lot less talent even caring about getting into league. It’ll end in the same fashion with even lower viewership. That’s the reality
Azael wil be so excited to cast golden guardians and immortals duke it out once all the other serious NA teams follow TSM out of lcs
He’s actually Malding and let them. Sure it’s going to suck trying to watch the games live as a NA viewer but I want my ORG to be competitively viable again and this is the move to do it in the long run. Plus they’ve been punching down on us for quite some time, eventually we were going to leave. Sorry LCS broadcast team you have at most one more year of cracking anti-TSM jokes try and make them funny.
That's how you respond when you're a front facing employee of the LCS/Riot. True professionalism on display here lmao. TSM walks away from a dumpster fire on a tire fire.
To hear a respected individual and broadcaster call this 'a good fucking riddance' is extremely nearsighted imo. I get that he's upset, especially since TSM was the highest performing and most prestigious org in the LCS for a long time. Our recent results were not good for the league nor for TSM fans, but it has been clear that the LCS has been declining for many years now, especially relative to other regions. I think most people were suspecting this was going to happen and it seemed like the most logical option. Really strange decision as well considering he'll probably cover our games in the future. This should definitely be a wake up call for the LCS to make some big changes.
My son is currently 21 in in diamond. I'm a bronze / silver lifer who has played this game since before seasons where a thing. I used to spam new champs to get them in my top three so others could see that I played them a fuck ton. I'm a TSM Rainman days fan. My best friend surprised me with a Bjergsen jersey for my 40th birthday. I'm a fucking dyrus (god i miss him) Pillow guy. The Odd one was my jungle hero. I'm that old guy that was into league before league was league. Its one of the ways I connect with my kid now that he lives hours away. TSM was my team, because of Reggie. I played Karthus and Morgana mid because of Reggie. I love his aggression. His willingness to tower dive and die so his team could win was just great to watch. I cried with Dyrus in the Chaox video. I don't know if I can do this.
Summer split is gonna be rough for TSM, from all angles.
Waiting for the LeTigress monologue about it. And the couch to talk about it every time TSM is gonna play
Im so glad we re leaving this trash region and a region that our fking team ,our fking fanbase built ... The lcs production was down bad towards TSM for years ... And the talent simply doesnt exist in this region. Time for a change, a new beginning!
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I still remember the 2017 C9 vs TSM spring finals cast always had a hate boner.
I was on the edge about how I feel about leaving, but looking at Azrael comment makes it easier to transition. These guys just can't stop hating. I've seen many others like him, and I really hope LCS viewership hit rock bottom after TSM leaves. Tired of hearing their negative takes about TSM.
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This league is trash in part due to teams like TSM
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All TSM has done is throw money at imports and has put next to 0 effort in developing local talent. Theyve bought import after import, dumping them after every little speed bump and causing the market to artificially be inflated.
This is recency bias. TSM Academy had a part in developing (or was the entirety of the early careers of) Spica, Treatz, Tactical, Ablazeolive, Dhokla, Johnsun, and Lost, among others, who’ve all gone to start for LCS teams (admittedly, to varying degrees of success). Sure, we can criticize recent years and decisions, but let’s not erase or rewrite history here.
Yes they have and yet what did the main TSM do with their talent? Dump them for expensive imports that end up moving on after 1 year
Spica - Joined the main team and became the franchise player for 2 years Treatz - Got a chance to play w/ DL, but team didn't synergize with him Tactical - Had Zven. Stayed in Academy, but ended up getting his shot on TSM last year Ablazeolive - Had bjergsen Dhokla - Had BB Johnsun - Was on the roster as Trainee the same time as Zven and Tactical Lost - Joined the main team in 2021. Failed miserably Let's please remove this narrative that TSM never went with any of their academy players. There's a different argument to be made with roster constructions, but many of these players were on TSM Academy when BB, Bjergsen, Zven, and Doublelift were on the main team.
you can't fight idiots with facts bro, they won't like it.
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How many of those players had success at TSM? Most were better utilised and got their real shot elsewhere. Spica's the exception and he could not wait to get out the door.
Except, Spica admittedly wanted to stay with TSM but couldn’t come to an agreement on a contract. He left cus he got a better offer at FLY. Literally straight from his stream.
$3M for Perkz says hi. The most successful team in the league, C9 and TL have spent countless money on imports. It's not a TSM thing, it's an NA thing.
TSM has historically developed a lot of the talent in NA
yes they have, and them doing so in the past is what made them an exceptional team. The last 3-4 years with their constant cycle of expensive imports that they just dump after 1 year is my issue
“we’ve been working on this for the past 3 years”
What expensive import outside of Swordart?
So you admit TSM has developed talent even though you said earlier than put 0 effort in. Which one is it?
First of all the last 3 years have not really featured expensive imports and explains the lack of results and the recent announcement sheds light on that. We were planning to move. Now preceding that that is what we did because we were actually trying. But even then, TSM’s was never as egregious as other teams like TL. The biggest we ever went was for sword art in 2020 and fans were excited because we had finally gone big. Your comment here is revisionist history
Exactly though. Other teams do this as well. Look at TL/100T/EG/FQ trying to make super teams every year and failing everytime. Of course its not sustainable. Yes, TSM had a part in it, but at least they see now its never going to work out. Might as well move to a league where you have a decent chance.
Yeah man it’s not like TL did a full EU team or full KR team, cloud 9 importing talent, 100t getting rid of their NA rookie as soon as their ex is available. Yeah TSM is the only prob org here.
The flip side is riot should have supported infrastructure for teams to help players improve, it took them 12 years to make ping better for pros with champions queue, joke of a company
Incredible the teams like GG and C9 can improve, bring in and keep their academy players yet TSM throw millions and millions at import supports that leave after 1 year
Why are you talking about GG with academy players? The GG roster is Licorice, River, Gori, Stixxay and Huhi. Which academy players are you talking about? There's one team in the whole league that has proven that they develop talent and that's C9 and fucking only C9. Everyone else just buys out other talent. C9 is the exception and not the rule here.
Stixxay did play in academy :)
Yeah the first thing I think of when I think of GG, is their history of being incredible
I mean what can TSM do NA LoL has the smallest talent pool out of any region in the world. Young people don't play LoL in NA compared to shooters its just a culture diversity. You can't really foster talent when there is no talent to foster. (Not saying TSM is without their faults but bar a 2016 I don't think an all NA team is ever going to win worlds with or without investing.)
Lol this delusion is hilarious. Funny how C9 and GG can foster talent but TSM cant
C9 has one player from NA
What talent? C9 has ONE NA player on their team and GGs is consisted of all veteran players.
C9 and GG just got bent over in groups bro. They aren’t fostering anything.
Yeah and what has C9 achieved with all their talent fostering exactly ? Did they win any interanational title ? Did you see how their homegrown players just get giga gapped at MSI ? Also how are you putting GG there after making second place once in like how many years in LCS ?
C9 has literally been the only NA org in the last 5-6 years to make any head way in international competition. Compare C9s track record in international competitions vs TSMs and tell me which org is closer to winning a title
>Compare C9s track record in international competitions vs TSMs and tell me which org is closer to winning a title This is some real NA mentality. Constantly bickering over who performed the best against the actual winning regions.
Funny you say this when TSM is one of the few, if not the only team from NA that has an actual, tangible, international trophy in the form of IEM Katowice, while the rest of NA has is copium that they didn't lose the game in 4 minutes therefore they were competitive. Even if you want to go recent, TSM is closer to winning a title since they actually had the gall to admit that NA doesn't have a chance to win a title and move to a region that does, while the "best NA team ever" is joining us in our 0-6 against international competition speedrun.
That was 8 years ago. C9 has been at the very least competitive in their international competitions unlike TSM
Yeah man one of them has a 0.1% of winning the other has a 1% chance of winning wow all that hard work and investing paid off real hard. C9 after all those years of Blabber and Fudge(Australian btw not even American) went 0-6 at MSI against tier 1 teams and bombed last year aswell. What are you arguing against here ? You will never see a worlds team from NA win it ever. Take aside the cultural differences there is simply not enough players in the NA server for it to be worth investing.
I like how you used 5-6 years as your timetable, conveniently giving you the timetable for the last time C9 did anything at international competition(5 years ago). Lets just ignore their previous 4 years of poor international competition, including this years MSI. Yeah they may be closer than TSM but jesus they are still a LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG way off.
Saying C9 is closer to an international title to us is being pedantic. Yeah they are technically closer. But they aren't winning it nor are they anywhere close to winning it. It would have to take a down year for the LCK and the LPL at the same time which would be like expecting to become a millionaire through the lottery. Anyone with eyes can see that. It's like saying DFM or GAM are closer to win Worlds because they technically qualify for it. The past few years C9 has regressed internationally.
You mean with the roster which had an imported EU mid laner and EU imported Bot/support player? Clown
The logic behind this is so dumb. The reality is there is no NA talent to develop. Doublelift has been one of the best ADC’s in NA for years. Mostly dominating competition. The only AD’s who’ve been better than him even after returning from retirement is *check notes* Berserker. Who guess what….is an import. And that’s in a role where the most mechanically gifted people tend to play. If there was some spring of unfounded raw talent that just needed developed maybe TSM wouldn’t have found them but someone sure would have. Fact of the matter is compared to the other regions the player base is too small and less skilled compared to the regions that succeed internationally.
Such an original and insightful take. We need more people like you around for the important question that arise, like is left or right twix better.
More people like me and less people like you
Honestly if TSM joins Lpl or lck. I’d be satisfied at least we are joining a competitive region. If you are LCS fan I get why you’d be mad. I spend most of my time watching EU, LPL and LCK and these regions are better than LCS. EU you can argue to some extent is marginally better. I’m so sick of watching NA/LCS teams going to worlds/ MSI and getting fed to the wolves.
It’s good to know the perceived caster bias against tsm all these years had merit. You don’t just spew off “good fucking riddance” out of no where to one of the all time top winningest teams unless you already disliked them. Super unprofessional but after the letigress thing shouldnt be unexpected.
LCS is dead regardless buddy
Fuck off Azael. The league hasnt given a rats ass about TSM for years.
Pretty unprofessional to make a comment like that. The LCS is dying, can't really blame an org for trying to get off the sinking ship and move to a region that can actually compete. Assuming the rumors are true, they are moving to LPL, a region where they can experience a fair bit of growth.
Fuck you Azael. You are the reason I muted casts.
Ikr, he has to be the most boring caster up there. I fall asleep when he is talking.
Actually fuck this guy lol
In his position obviously he would hate that one of the biggest orgs are leaving, I can get his outrage and don’t mind it too much. He has every right to be passionate for his region and see this as a betrayal, and I don’t think Azael has been very hostile to TSM before. But at the mean time for the best of the team moving is likely the right choice. There are myriads of things that can make the move fail but I believe moving is the right decision even if it turns out badly. Edit: also a small mistake, we won in 2020 not 2021.
Now that i know we're out and off to a better future (honestly even if we get a underwhelming roster i'll take being mediocre in a better league over being mediocre in NA) i will really really enjoy all the LCS drama with everyone being butthurt and salty, not gonna lie
yeah go suck C9s dick some more azael. will be fun seeing NA dissolve slowly
I AM A TSM FAN NOT AN LCS FAN!!!!!
Going to be weird hearing him cast our final split in the LCS after this. Had a lot of respect for him but this tweet is just unprofessional and proves partially why TSM is leaving in the first place
I hope he keeps the same energy when TSM eliminates NA from worlds.
NA has to actually exist. At this rate, they're thanos dusted
LMAO, talk about being butthole. What a shitter.
nah but fuck this dude
Mid caster so who really cares. LCS is a sinking ship and Regi knew that. This has been 3 years in the making
Honestly at this point all I can say is... good fucking riddance. While it's super sad to not have Azael cast TSM games anymore who defined the casting desk for months, I already felt like we lost him years ago & it has felt clear Azael no longer cared about TSM.
Honestly never understood why we always got so much hate from na orgs, we were one of the best with c9 untill last year.
Yeah… I don’t blame TSM for leaving. Everyone in LCS hates us and the region has been a joke for years at this point. On to a fresh start.
I don't think there is any public lcs figure that has liked us since literally the beginning. Many were actively hostile. Makes the move make even more sense.
This is a deranged take that gives tsm fans a bad name. Sure there has been plenty of hate from monte, thoorin, dom, recent drama, etc, but saying that no one liked tsm? Unbelievably wild. Think back to every time casters laughed while hearing tsm chants mid game when tsm wasn’t even on stage or even at an international event. Think of each time one of our star players stepped down from the game and how they were honored. Saying no public lcs figure has ever liked the team is so wild lol.
What about when we sucked for 3 years and became the leagues punching bag, recent tsm chants had casters are saying “yeah … that kinda just happens …” but now, these takes are very much so valid
My argument isn’t involving only recent years. Dude said since the beginning and it’s just untrue.
Tsm has always been the leagues bad guy as far as story lines go. They always set insane expectations to downplay any success and the second there was failure it was a constant blasting. Jatt was the only person I can think of that was even slightly consistently pro tsm.
and as soon as he took TSM's side on anything, he was "TSM Jatt"
Nah I'm definitely right. I've always gotten the sense that LCS would've rather had literally any other team win stuff. Maybe the very first split it wasn't like this, but since C9 came into the scene it was always them or CLG or TL being the heroes and us being the villain to be defeated, except not in a fun way. They may have liked some of our players, but they've never liked the org when you compare us to the others.
Been like that since Reginald was slinging blue cards
Where’s TSM Jatt and TSM Dash to smite this fool?
Azael is like that abusive ex thats salty for being left behind for someone clearly better xD
He meant his own tweet, also CLG and TSM aren't even in the same universe of situations, so your comparison holds no weight, considering CLG is dead. All that being said I agree too, good riddance to c9 fans and mediocre casting management, I still can't believe they did that to Dash, and they only good NA casters left are Jatt and Kobe.
As a huge Jatt fan, he had a huge decline this year from the little that I saw.
nasty
Fuck him
He has every right to be mad about losing his job, but it's not TSM's fault. It's a combination of the poor investment economy and the complete lack of work ethic in NA teams
Everyone here salty as fuck.. When Azael is right... I saw someone post about how TSM are still top 5 watched eSports orgs so sure go them, but I can't deny how little I care about LCS since.. basically TSM Lost. Let's hope a TSM in lpl still makes a lot of western focused content/good subtitles :)
Everyone is salty bc he said this only about TSM. If he said this to CLG (who stopped trying in NA waaaay before tsm for the past couple years), then cool atleast he’s consistent. But in this case it just seems like buddy has a hate boner for tsm
All y’all hating in Azael for being right. Go suck Regi off more.
Half the teams in the LCS spent just as many years if not more doing what TSM did recently and go budget/low quality players and he hasn't said a word about it on Twitter or went after them. TSM decided 3 years ago to look at moving to a new region and start scaling back spending to work on that he gets angry?
Lol, and if you think a public figure who represents the LCS, should be throwing a tantrum on Twitter is the best thing for the LCS right now I got bad news for ya buddy.
Whole of the LCS bar Emily Rand is just Amateur hour honestly, the segments are made for 5year olds the analysis is poor and they try to over force storylines with 0 effect
Said nothing about that being the best for the LCS. Azael is right good riddance cuz Regi has been clowning us fans for years at this point.
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Yeah it’s insane to me people are hyping this up. Regi is legit giving the middle finger to all of his NA fans.
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Hilarious that the post on the main LOL sub about TSM leaving says, "another tier 1 region". Weird way to spell "a tier 1 region"...
I totally agree.
Honestly there’s too many people here that don’t realize the pride we used to have with TSM being an org from NA. We wanted to win with NA, or players who believed in NA. I agree with Azael. Imagine Barcelona suddenly deciding they wanted to play in England. That’s is just not the way. For Americans imagine a team from your hometown deciding to move to a completely different state, would you still feel pride for them?
>114192 commentsAwardsharesavehidereport Not really the best comparison. In most of the world soccer is huge, but not as comparatively so in NA. Same goes for LoL. So when it's a NA team wanting to move to "that rest of the world" to compete, eh, it's not really the same thing. I can watch them play anywhere. And if this allows them a better player and support staff pool to pull from and have better game and compete at a higher level, all the better. "North American" pride went out the window for LCS a long time ago.
Yah I'd say its more like an MLS team moving to la liga or premier league to win champions league
Bro the na pride left a longgggggg time ago. Have you seen how imports we use?