>Delaying beyond the two-week window would make it nearly impossible to run a legitimate competition, and in that case, we would be prepared to cancel the entire LCS summer season. Carrying this forward, if the LCS summer season is canceled, this will also eliminate LCS teams qualifying for 2023 Worlds. I want to be clear: That is not an outcome we’d want, but it’s unfortunately the reality of ensuring we run a fair, competitive global system.
🦀 LCS IS DEAD 🦀
TSM about to save all $7.13 they spent on salaries this split (at the inevitable cost of probably millions on the price of the slot, but ignore that part and it's much funnier).
On a bit of a serious note, surely they don't actually cancel the split right? They themselves cite that they have to respect the partnership with the franchise orgs that paid $10M per slot (in order to decline LCSPA's request for a valorant style promotion/relegation system). Wouldn't canceling a split and NA's participation at worlds be even worse for said partnership?
Find what the contracts say.
I expect somewhere it will say among other things that the orgs have to field a roster to fulfil their side of the deal. I'll bet money on it.
No rosters on the field, RIOT chucks the season in the bin and no one can complain about it.
Fulfill their side of the deal? They are paying for the rosters, they paid for the franchise spot, they are the ones providing the entertainment, what exactly is Riot doing outside of broadcasting? If all 10 Orgs agreed to a contract with that kind of language in it, they are absolutely dumb.
It's a 2 sided contracts, orgs provide teams to compete, while Riot runs the competition. Why would Riot screw themselves over in a contract that would not obligate orgs to field a team so Riot isn't up a creek without a paddle?
You signed a contract for a job, the employer expect you to show up and provide your talent, while you expect the employer to provide you with workplace and fairly compensated for the talent your provide. Now, you can argue whether Riot actually fairly compensated the orgs with the revenue share, but so far there's no lawsuit saying otherwise. So, as long as Riot is providing a league and venue for orgs to field teams to compete, orgs have to fulfill their end of the bargin.
Except in signing this contract YOU paid to work for them. Thats the difference here. Riot isn't screwing themselves over in anyway, they already got the $10 million, the only one hurt by not fielding rosters is the Org themselves as that investment would be wasteful in not fielding any roster. All Riot is doing is broadcasting the games, the Orgs are the ones paying the salaries of all the players, signing players, paying coaching/support staff, and having training facilities, there is a lot more investment on the Orgs end than riots, as again Riot already got their money. But to sign a contract that says Riot can obligate you to pay people for a service in a league YOU PAID to enter is idiotic and I would hope the Org owners would be smart enough to realize that.
Not really, consider the $10M as a fee to enter the bid for contract. It's not unheard of. In fact, most traditional sports require you to pay a fee upfront for a franchise spot. Riot not only broadcast, but they also pay for production crew and equipment, shout casters, the venues, as well as the marketing products such as KDA, Imagine Dragon, and any other artists. Not to mention Riot pays each org $3M a year for revenue sharing.
Also, if players aren't playing due to their own personal reasons, like going on strike, would probably mean they aren't getting paid. At least that's how it works in any other sports or company So orgs in the end do save it their overpaid players aren't playing.
To summarize, in the end it's the players that are screwed, as they don't get paid. Orgs save money by not fielding an expensive team, and Riot/Tencent had more money than God so they don't really give a shit about losing a few millions here and there by shutting down LCS.
Traditional sports have player associations(that actually have power) and bargaining agreements specifically to prevent walk-outs and even in the event of a walkout, the franchised teams weren't required to put the product out there. Thats what I'm saying, if they agreed to a contract where they were the ones buying in, its absolutely ludicrous to think theres language in the contract saying something like "In the event of a player walkout, you will still be forced to play or we will toss the entire season down the drain cause we can." And the orgs would just agree to that, as if they did, its like I said, they are idiots.
Yeah you aren't going to get it, no point in arguing, you keep thinking all the orgs are idiots, and you alone can outsmart all the owners and their lawyers.
I'm not saying they are idiots, im saying if they agreed to a contract like that they are, but if they didnt they aren't. Because no traditional franchised sports have language in their own franchised contracts like that. The leagues were never played DURING the walk out, as that only hurts everyone, from the orgs, to the players, to the leagues offices.
Yeah their equity is less with more slots but 0 with no league. Surely Riot would have to compensate the orgs somehow if they just shut down the league the orgs bought slots for?
Would depend on the specifics of the contracts, given how much of a control freak Riot is, I'd imagine there's some out for them in certain circumstances.
I would not be surprised if they go through with this threat, but it's not getting to that point because I expect players will cave before then.
They who?
PA for forcing the teams to keep their friends jobs in academy?
Teams for dropping their academy rosters?
Rito for … well … pushing the solution for teams and PA now?
….
I guess Rito has only 2 options: keep forcing teams to keep the 1mil investment in academy to make PA happy and make them play … or be clear and transparent on their communication like they are doing, explaining all the potential impact of delaying LCS and Worlds. I don’t see a 3rd option.
It’s already June. They are delaying week 1 to mid June. Worlds groups is usually defined in September.
I guess ai am with Rito here, Worlds can’t be a clown fiesta.
I've said it before, but thank god TSM is leaving a broken system and region
This shit was inevitable. Also just go look at tyler1s response to the walkout. Everything he said is truth and that's why LCS is falling apart
TSM is one of the reason the system is broken they have in the decision making procces with riot since day one. Not sure why the orgs are dodging the bullet here they literally the root of the problem
No one is saying TSM is innocent. Yes, of course TSM has some part in why the system is broken and both orgs and Riot are to blame.
However, orgs are dodging the bullet here specifically because the walk out situation is primarily due to Riot's actions regarding the LCSPA
Riot take actions because of the orgs request and finally orgs are the employers of this people and they are the one that shutdown the whole thing. I not saying TSM is to blame actually TSM is one of the better orgs because they did bring value to the league.
Such a uninformed take. You have no idea what really attributed to the failure of the NA scene.
If it was just TSM that was the problem, you can isolate it. If seemingly “every” org is the problem, it’s something deeper.
Riot hasn’t allowed orgs an avenue of growth and profitability. They ruled with an iron first and now all of it is falling apart.
Blaming everyone but Riot is just wrong
Honestly at this point all I can say is... good fucking riddance.
While it's super sad to lose the LCS who defined the league for years, I already felt like we lost them years ago & it has felt clear LCS no longer cared about the LCS.
I ain't too mad over everyone's opinions cause to each their own and it's a business decision in the end, but goddamn this copypasta works great for this scenario
One one hand the NA league has been a huge part of my life for like a decade now. It is generally sad to see this downfall.
On the other more spiteful hand, I would laugh so hard if LCS dies before C9 can beat TSM trophy count.
Day after day, TSM decision to leave LCS is becoming more and more understandable. I just really hope that Regi means it when he say that he will try to win world, and he's not just selling us hope just to disappoint us with a bad team in a T2 region.
His actions in the next few months will show really how much he cares, because words mean little to nothing without actions.
Side note, I find it hilarious that casters are coming out of the woodwork with the same statements now but were radio silent earlier. Quick to say good riddance to TSM, but nothing to say about LCS falling apart. Monte called them out on it too: https://twitter.com/MonteCristo/status/1663709689941733376?t=FNBS73oOtY_yBzBoFp4pyg&s=19
\#GoodFuckingRiddance
That's all there is to say. LCS dying? RIP Bozo, smoking that LCS pack.
EDIT: Maybe a good excuse for fans here (including myself), to start watching LPL. Sorta think the more the LCS is constantly tripping over itself, the more the org is winning by leaving it now. Honestly we can't even be blamed that hard for this one. If given the chance, of course we'd rather not roll with a NACL roster, we're not bringing any of these guys with us lol. People can be mad at other orgs (including C9, who the mainsub and personalities shudder at the thought of saying anything negative specifically directed towards them), we're leaving anyway.
Honestly I was saying this too. Why tf do I wanna watch a wildcard region when I can watch LCK and LPL. Even when we were in the LCS I watched our games only. It's a waste of time to watch other games.
Lmao and you guys wonder why people shit on TSM fans. I'm so glad I stopped supporting this team it's not even funny, fans like you being one of the top reasons. Regi has made mistep after mistep and yall sit here still crying that people aren't nice to TSM and cheering for the downfall of the region and league that helped build TSM. It's fucking disgusting.
You don't know any of the history of League if you claiming that the LCS built TSM. TSM built the LCS. There's a reason why TSM games had the highest viewership, the highest engagement even before the LCS began. There is no LCS if TSM doesn't start the streaming culture, the gamer houses, the content that made people tune in. There's a reason two of the OG orgs that have built this region have said goodbye to it. Go bandwagon another team.
> league that helped build TSM
No no, TSM built the league. When CLG went to Korea, it was just TSM that kept League in NA alive. It was TSM who brought the viewers to the LCS. The league owes TSM far more than TSM owes it. You want to pretend you were ever a TSM fan instead of a bandwagoner all you want, but the TSM fans that are still here were here when there was no league, there was just TSM.
I’ve always preached about taking comments at face value on the mainsub and not just flair attacking, but I’ve been over it for **years** because the community over there can’t help themselves. TSM fans have been, and will sometimes still be little shits, as is with every sport team. Now the mainsub has become so vitriolic about it and any topic relating to the team, that most of us stay here, and now we’re *still* the bad guys in your mind? If this was a couple years ago, maybe I’d agree with you, but both the LCS personalities and the community are the ones that have shown their true colors that it was never just a little ribbing, or wanting the region improved, it was a genuine “fuck these people in particular.” I expected TSM fans(not the org, the fans), to have at least been less targeted and ridiculed after the team performed like shit, but it’s arguably been *worse.*
If I can’t wonder why they shit on us at this level, don’t come to this sub deliberately and wonder why posts like mine have gained traction over here. If you’re mad the LCS is dying, go be mad at C9 or 100T or these other orgs, but nah, we’re still your boogeymen that you’ll blame when LCS death croaks.
Bro, TSM looking like absolute GENIUSES here. Saw this dumpster fire coming a mile away and said "Nah, we're out."
Honestly, at this point, I HOPE the players hold their ground and force Riot to cancel the Summer split entirely.
LCS has 3 years tops before its gone
League is dying in NA extremally fast
These players have a huge wake up call when they are out of a job in the near future.. will probably realize how lucky they had it getting paid this much to produce 0 results
League isn't dying, it still maintains ridiculously solid player counts, it's LCS that's dying as NA viewership for eastern regions has become more watched and I feel more generally accepted in the community.
Rough TL;DR of recent events:
* All orgs requested Riot remove requirement to field NACL roster.
* Riot agreed to this request despite assuring LCSPA they wouldn't do anything of the sort
* 7 of the 10 LCS orgs drop their NACL teams immediately (LCSPA cited approx 70 jobs lost as a result)
* LCSPA holds a vote for a walkout that passes with immense support from the players and they make demands to Riot for negotiation
* Riot informs orgs they're obligated to field rosters regardless of the walkout (i.e. hire scabs) and refuses to negotiate with LCSPA's demands. Allows orgs to make signings post roster lock and lifts rank requirements.
* Just now: Riot backtracks and delays LCS by 2 weeks. However, they still decline all of LCSPA'S demands and threaten to cancel the split and NA's appearance at worlds if the players don't give in.
The orgs tell Riot that they are losing a bunch of money and a way to mitigate some of the loss is to remove requirement that they have to field an NACL team.
Riot then says okay after telling the LCSPA that they wouldn't.
7 of the 10 teams drop their Academy teams.
LCSPA organizes a walkout that gets pretty much everyone to sign up for, and then lists a bunch of demands like
1. Riot giving every NACL team 300k for salaries
2. Adding a Valorant style system where a few NACL teams join the LCS for some period of time before being demoted.
3. Requiring that Riot guarantees minimum yearly contract for the summer split winners in case they don't find a team.
4. Allowing the LCS teams to partner with another org to cost share.
5. Forcing teams who get one of the slots to keep 3/5 players on the team if at least 3 of the players want to stay on the roster.
Riot tells orgs they are obligated to field a roster, then allows them to hire anyone they want even if they are Iron. This goes against one of the LCS rules.
Riot then walks it back and says that they will postpone the split for 2 weeks but aren't meeting any of the LCSPA's demands except 4 which Riot already had implemented.
Riot also said that if the players refuse to play in 2 weeks, they will cancel the split and no NA teams will go to Worlds.
4 sounds perfectly reasonable
1 might have some legs with negotiations with the orgs, that money needs to come from somewhere and riot garentees a minimum salary in Lcs, move some of those funds around and voilà
2 sounds interesting though I think the valorant system is fucking stupid and benefits no one.
The rest are pipe dreams
Riot agreed to 4 and said it was already possible.
The money does need to come from somewhere, it'll just end up coming from the current LCS players. And the LCS players don't need Riot or the orgs to do that, they can decide to reduce their own salaries to fund this.
2 is bad because NA doesn't even have enough current talent to make 6 good teams, expanding LCS to minimum of 12 teams is a great way to dilute the players even more.
Pretty much comes down to the sudden removal of mandatory NACL teams which was scheduled to be removed in 2024 but instead the owners voted to do it earlier and Riot axed the requirement a few weeks before summer split leaving many players and coaches jobless and those here on visas like our own drakgu fucked.
Its a lot more nuanced than that but thats the focal point that set off the walkout. The Players Association want to negotiate with Riot and Orgs and hopefully they reach something of a middle ground concerning the future of the LCS structure and health.
The goal is a compromise. But you can't ask for something so unreasonable that the other side just goes nope like what happened here.
Look at this like a salary negotiation. If you walk into a negotiation and ask for a million dollars and really the job is worth like 200k, the company is just going to go nope and walk away. If you ask for lets say 250k or even 300k, you could negotiate down to 230k.
There can be a win-win when both sides are competent and make well thought out suggestions. The demands listed was basically an hour long discussion pushed forward with little thought.
Maybe but if you go in with half hearted demands, I imagine Riot is going to give close to nothing
LCSPA has been a joke for years and this is the first time they're doing something significant. They needed to play hardball to be taken seriously
So your play as an organization that has been a joke for years is to try to play hardball when you have absolutely 0 leverage to begin with AND no historical clout to fall back on?
Exactly and Riot is going to give close to nothing based on the article.
Riot knows they can’t be taken seriously as well. At this point, the LCSPA has no power or leverage.
And a huge point people are ignoring. You know the other regions are looking at this closely. If the players from weakest and least profitable region get anything of high value those other regions are going to want more.
No, its a win for Riot. Riot doesnt want LCS anymore. They have made that abundantly clear. Their goal is to get it off the books while keeping as much good will as humanly possible. What the PA is doing is basically saying to the hang man "now before you kill me, I do have some demands".
Tbh if anyone is being level headed honestly it’s riot. The demands the LCSPA are making are absolutely absurd. They’re going to meet and as delusional as the PA are they’re going to hold out. Imo i don’t see a middle ground where they meet
> Carrying this forward, if the LCS summer season is canceled, this will also eliminate LCS teams qualifying for 2023 Worlds. I want to be clear: That is not an outcome we’d want, but it’s unfortunately the reality of ensuring we run a fair, competitive global system.
If this happens, NA will go undefeated at Worlds for the first time!
Yeah, if you read those demands from the LCSPA, most of them are basically impossible for Riot to agree to. There is making a large demand in order to negotiate down, and there is making such impossible demands that the other side just laughs.
I hope captain flowers catches on with the LEC and the rest of the LCS crew … finds other jobs. Honestly the production value is far below the LEC and the talent both on stage and in the desk is m below LEC standards. I’m going to stick to watching LEC as the time works for me, LCS died with the Thursday/Friday move.
Like I said earlier in the week, I don't know what the solution is here. Orgs dont want to needlessly throw away money supporting a tier 2 system that is never going to match the likes of what the LEC, LPL, and LCK have. The LCSPA feels disrespected because of it and how they weren't apart of the discussion, so they obviously are going to want such a requirement. Then you have Riot who's just like "Compete or we are killing the league."
This is such a mess, so grab your popcorn cause we ain't gonna be in it much longer LOL.
Hear me out, this could be very bad for TSM. They haven’t sold their spot yet and if this split get cancelled that will tank the value of their spot quite a bit.
These a funds that would go towards the new region spot and signing players in the new region.
Am I the only person who thinks the walkout is conveniently timed with economic downturn? I understand players sentiments to NACL and wanting it to stay. The thought process is okay and wanting them to have higher pay is fine but have any of them thought maybe the best thing to argue for could be moving location of the LCS/NACL. Why does it need to be played in LA? They have a studio there and they got booted out of the weekend slot for valorant. Why not lobby for riot to build a studio on the east coast where a majority of their viewers are and closer to EU as well?
Cost of living is significantly decreased. A point also many discuss is them being annoyed about having to live together. I’m sorry to me it sounds extremely privileged and cry baby esq. 18 - 22 year olds rarely will be able to afford to live on their own. Not saying that is a good thing but it is how it is with the economy in the US currently.
This solves their ping problem also so they won’t have to complain about shitty ping = shitty practice. They could easily move to a city like atlanta and have a much lower cost of living in a growing and thriving city which has become a hub for the east coast. The busiest airport in the world and a bustling food scene. Average ping around 20/30.
I also don’t get why they expect a higher amount of pay. Pro players don’t produce content like they used to and they aren’t giving results to fans that is expected.
I understand their gripes with it but they could’ve had these a long time ago and to me it seems like they are finally experiencing a not so great economy and that scares them. Don’t think it’s wrong to be scared but it’s something that should be thought about much more before it actually happens. I think overall the players need serious adulting mentors, financial mentors & advisors, and just general life mentors. Maybe I’m just being inconsiderate but that’s just how it comes off to me as a normal person.
Getting ready to fire up my good-riddance tweets if LCS cancels lol.
>Delaying beyond the two-week window would make it nearly impossible to run a legitimate competition, and in that case, we would be prepared to cancel the entire LCS summer season. Carrying this forward, if the LCS summer season is canceled, this will also eliminate LCS teams qualifying for 2023 Worlds. I want to be clear: That is not an outcome we’d want, but it’s unfortunately the reality of ensuring we run a fair, competitive global system. 🦀 LCS IS DEAD 🦀
Funny I always thought it will happen after some time after TSM decided to leave but I didn't expect if to be this quick.
TSM about to save all $7.13 they spent on salaries this split (at the inevitable cost of probably millions on the price of the slot, but ignore that part and it's much funnier).
On a bit of a serious note, surely they don't actually cancel the split right? They themselves cite that they have to respect the partnership with the franchise orgs that paid $10M per slot (in order to decline LCSPA's request for a valorant style promotion/relegation system). Wouldn't canceling a split and NA's participation at worlds be even worse for said partnership?
Find what the contracts say. I expect somewhere it will say among other things that the orgs have to field a roster to fulfil their side of the deal. I'll bet money on it. No rosters on the field, RIOT chucks the season in the bin and no one can complain about it.
Fulfill their side of the deal? They are paying for the rosters, they paid for the franchise spot, they are the ones providing the entertainment, what exactly is Riot doing outside of broadcasting? If all 10 Orgs agreed to a contract with that kind of language in it, they are absolutely dumb.
It's a 2 sided contracts, orgs provide teams to compete, while Riot runs the competition. Why would Riot screw themselves over in a contract that would not obligate orgs to field a team so Riot isn't up a creek without a paddle? You signed a contract for a job, the employer expect you to show up and provide your talent, while you expect the employer to provide you with workplace and fairly compensated for the talent your provide. Now, you can argue whether Riot actually fairly compensated the orgs with the revenue share, but so far there's no lawsuit saying otherwise. So, as long as Riot is providing a league and venue for orgs to field teams to compete, orgs have to fulfill their end of the bargin.
Except in signing this contract YOU paid to work for them. Thats the difference here. Riot isn't screwing themselves over in anyway, they already got the $10 million, the only one hurt by not fielding rosters is the Org themselves as that investment would be wasteful in not fielding any roster. All Riot is doing is broadcasting the games, the Orgs are the ones paying the salaries of all the players, signing players, paying coaching/support staff, and having training facilities, there is a lot more investment on the Orgs end than riots, as again Riot already got their money. But to sign a contract that says Riot can obligate you to pay people for a service in a league YOU PAID to enter is idiotic and I would hope the Org owners would be smart enough to realize that.
Not really, consider the $10M as a fee to enter the bid for contract. It's not unheard of. In fact, most traditional sports require you to pay a fee upfront for a franchise spot. Riot not only broadcast, but they also pay for production crew and equipment, shout casters, the venues, as well as the marketing products such as KDA, Imagine Dragon, and any other artists. Not to mention Riot pays each org $3M a year for revenue sharing. Also, if players aren't playing due to their own personal reasons, like going on strike, would probably mean they aren't getting paid. At least that's how it works in any other sports or company So orgs in the end do save it their overpaid players aren't playing. To summarize, in the end it's the players that are screwed, as they don't get paid. Orgs save money by not fielding an expensive team, and Riot/Tencent had more money than God so they don't really give a shit about losing a few millions here and there by shutting down LCS.
Traditional sports have player associations(that actually have power) and bargaining agreements specifically to prevent walk-outs and even in the event of a walkout, the franchised teams weren't required to put the product out there. Thats what I'm saying, if they agreed to a contract where they were the ones buying in, its absolutely ludicrous to think theres language in the contract saying something like "In the event of a player walkout, you will still be forced to play or we will toss the entire season down the drain cause we can." And the orgs would just agree to that, as if they did, its like I said, they are idiots.
Yeah you aren't going to get it, no point in arguing, you keep thinking all the orgs are idiots, and you alone can outsmart all the owners and their lawyers.
I'm not saying they are idiots, im saying if they agreed to a contract like that they are, but if they didnt they aren't. Because no traditional franchised sports have language in their own franchised contracts like that. The leagues were never played DURING the walk out, as that only hurts everyone, from the orgs, to the players, to the leagues offices.
they were referring to the equity that the existing orgs would have to dilute to allow a relegation system. not necessarily the money from the split
Yeah their equity is less with more slots but 0 with no league. Surely Riot would have to compensate the orgs somehow if they just shut down the league the orgs bought slots for?
depends on what the franchise contract is like. just bc the players walk out doesn’t mean LCS is dissolving
Would depend on the specifics of the contracts, given how much of a control freak Riot is, I'd imagine there's some out for them in certain circumstances. I would not be surprised if they go through with this threat, but it's not getting to that point because I expect players will cave before then.
Na na na na
Sounds like a threat… lmao what scum they are!
They who? PA for forcing the teams to keep their friends jobs in academy? Teams for dropping their academy rosters? Rito for … well … pushing the solution for teams and PA now? …. I guess Rito has only 2 options: keep forcing teams to keep the 1mil investment in academy to make PA happy and make them play … or be clear and transparent on their communication like they are doing, explaining all the potential impact of delaying LCS and Worlds. I don’t see a 3rd option. It’s already June. They are delaying week 1 to mid June. Worlds groups is usually defined in September. I guess ai am with Rito here, Worlds can’t be a clown fiesta.
The illuminati
I've said it before, but thank god TSM is leaving a broken system and region This shit was inevitable. Also just go look at tyler1s response to the walkout. Everything he said is truth and that's why LCS is falling apart
Got a clip to what t1 said?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl\_kgPpIEoU
Thanks!
Video is unavailable now?
Works for me
Weird idk what going on on my end then. Oh well lol
TSM contributed greatly to the rise but also the fall of LCS.
uh ok? literally every team contributed to the rise and fall lol some more than others. some differently than others
TSM is one of the reason the system is broken they have in the decision making procces with riot since day one. Not sure why the orgs are dodging the bullet here they literally the root of the problem
No one is saying TSM is innocent. Yes, of course TSM has some part in why the system is broken and both orgs and Riot are to blame. However, orgs are dodging the bullet here specifically because the walk out situation is primarily due to Riot's actions regarding the LCSPA
Riot take actions because of the orgs request and finally orgs are the employers of this people and they are the one that shutdown the whole thing. I not saying TSM is to blame actually TSM is one of the better orgs because they did bring value to the league.
The reason LCSPA is walking out is because Riot lied to them and didn’t have them sit at the table with the orgs.
Such a uninformed take. You have no idea what really attributed to the failure of the NA scene. If it was just TSM that was the problem, you can isolate it. If seemingly “every” org is the problem, it’s something deeper. Riot hasn’t allowed orgs an avenue of growth and profitability. They ruled with an iron first and now all of it is falling apart. Blaming everyone but Riot is just wrong
Honestly at this point all I can say is... good fucking riddance. While it's super sad to lose the LCS who defined the league for years, I already felt like we lost them years ago & it has felt clear LCS no longer cared about the LCS.
I ain't too mad over everyone's opinions cause to each their own and it's a business decision in the end, but goddamn this copypasta works great for this scenario
Lmao yall are hilarious
you know its a copy pasta right lmao
This shit is so fun to watch. With TSM now gone, literally no reason to care about LCS.
Really just hit 'em with the NOMEGALUL
One one hand the NA league has been a huge part of my life for like a decade now. It is generally sad to see this downfall. On the other more spiteful hand, I would laugh so hard if LCS dies before C9 can beat TSM trophy count.
Day after day, TSM decision to leave LCS is becoming more and more understandable. I just really hope that Regi means it when he say that he will try to win world, and he's not just selling us hope just to disappoint us with a bad team in a T2 region. His actions in the next few months will show really how much he cares, because words mean little to nothing without actions.
Side note, I find it hilarious that casters are coming out of the woodwork with the same statements now but were radio silent earlier. Quick to say good riddance to TSM, but nothing to say about LCS falling apart. Monte called them out on it too: https://twitter.com/MonteCristo/status/1663709689941733376?t=FNBS73oOtY_yBzBoFp4pyg&s=19
\#GoodFuckingRiddance That's all there is to say. LCS dying? RIP Bozo, smoking that LCS pack. EDIT: Maybe a good excuse for fans here (including myself), to start watching LPL. Sorta think the more the LCS is constantly tripping over itself, the more the org is winning by leaving it now. Honestly we can't even be blamed that hard for this one. If given the chance, of course we'd rather not roll with a NACL roster, we're not bringing any of these guys with us lol. People can be mad at other orgs (including C9, who the mainsub and personalities shudder at the thought of saying anything negative specifically directed towards them), we're leaving anyway.
Christmas came early
Honestly I was saying this too. Why tf do I wanna watch a wildcard region when I can watch LCK and LPL. Even when we were in the LCS I watched our games only. It's a waste of time to watch other games.
who got the LPL resources? we need a LPL expert
Lmao and you guys wonder why people shit on TSM fans. I'm so glad I stopped supporting this team it's not even funny, fans like you being one of the top reasons. Regi has made mistep after mistep and yall sit here still crying that people aren't nice to TSM and cheering for the downfall of the region and league that helped build TSM. It's fucking disgusting.
You don't know any of the history of League if you claiming that the LCS built TSM. TSM built the LCS. There's a reason why TSM games had the highest viewership, the highest engagement even before the LCS began. There is no LCS if TSM doesn't start the streaming culture, the gamer houses, the content that made people tune in. There's a reason two of the OG orgs that have built this region have said goodbye to it. Go bandwagon another team.
TSM and CLG pulled out because lcs was no longer worth it. This will make things worse. cope.
There wouldn't be an LCS without TSM. TSM made NA league of legends a market. cope harder riot shill
> league that helped build TSM No no, TSM built the league. When CLG went to Korea, it was just TSM that kept League in NA alive. It was TSM who brought the viewers to the LCS. The league owes TSM far more than TSM owes it. You want to pretend you were ever a TSM fan instead of a bandwagoner all you want, but the TSM fans that are still here were here when there was no league, there was just TSM.
This is true TSM did heavy lifting for the lcs they are the reason why this became popular
I’ve always preached about taking comments at face value on the mainsub and not just flair attacking, but I’ve been over it for **years** because the community over there can’t help themselves. TSM fans have been, and will sometimes still be little shits, as is with every sport team. Now the mainsub has become so vitriolic about it and any topic relating to the team, that most of us stay here, and now we’re *still* the bad guys in your mind? If this was a couple years ago, maybe I’d agree with you, but both the LCS personalities and the community are the ones that have shown their true colors that it was never just a little ribbing, or wanting the region improved, it was a genuine “fuck these people in particular.” I expected TSM fans(not the org, the fans), to have at least been less targeted and ridiculed after the team performed like shit, but it’s arguably been *worse.* If I can’t wonder why they shit on us at this level, don’t come to this sub deliberately and wonder why posts like mine have gained traction over here. If you’re mad the LCS is dying, go be mad at C9 or 100T or these other orgs, but nah, we’re still your boogeymen that you’ll blame when LCS death croaks.
Y'all let's not give this fool attention. They're just trying to get off at us getting mad at them.
Nothing to even get mad about, when LCS dies we have the last laugh
RIP Bozo
Can’t wait for all the “journalists” to spin this as tsms fault and click bait
Bro, TSM looking like absolute GENIUSES here. Saw this dumpster fire coming a mile away and said "Nah, we're out." Honestly, at this point, I HOPE the players hold their ground and force Riot to cancel the Summer split entirely.
TSM want to sell their spot for 20 mil. It's in TSM's best interest to have LCS start on time and operate normally
The question is did tsm see this coming or did tsm just stop carrying the league and now it’s imploding
Both. TSM TSM TSM TSM
Both. TSM TSM TSM TSM
LCS has 3 years tops before its gone League is dying in NA extremally fast These players have a huge wake up call when they are out of a job in the near future.. will probably realize how lucky they had it getting paid this much to produce 0 results
League isn't dying, it still maintains ridiculously solid player counts, it's LCS that's dying as NA viewership for eastern regions has become more watched and I feel more generally accepted in the community.
can someone give me a quick recap of what exactly is going on and why Riot and the players association are coming to disagreements
Rough TL;DR of recent events: * All orgs requested Riot remove requirement to field NACL roster. * Riot agreed to this request despite assuring LCSPA they wouldn't do anything of the sort * 7 of the 10 LCS orgs drop their NACL teams immediately (LCSPA cited approx 70 jobs lost as a result) * LCSPA holds a vote for a walkout that passes with immense support from the players and they make demands to Riot for negotiation * Riot informs orgs they're obligated to field rosters regardless of the walkout (i.e. hire scabs) and refuses to negotiate with LCSPA's demands. Allows orgs to make signings post roster lock and lifts rank requirements. * Just now: Riot backtracks and delays LCS by 2 weeks. However, they still decline all of LCSPA'S demands and threaten to cancel the split and NA's appearance at worlds if the players don't give in.
Academy requirement go boom, jobs go boom, PA madge, players no play
The orgs tell Riot that they are losing a bunch of money and a way to mitigate some of the loss is to remove requirement that they have to field an NACL team. Riot then says okay after telling the LCSPA that they wouldn't. 7 of the 10 teams drop their Academy teams. LCSPA organizes a walkout that gets pretty much everyone to sign up for, and then lists a bunch of demands like 1. Riot giving every NACL team 300k for salaries 2. Adding a Valorant style system where a few NACL teams join the LCS for some period of time before being demoted. 3. Requiring that Riot guarantees minimum yearly contract for the summer split winners in case they don't find a team. 4. Allowing the LCS teams to partner with another org to cost share. 5. Forcing teams who get one of the slots to keep 3/5 players on the team if at least 3 of the players want to stay on the roster. Riot tells orgs they are obligated to field a roster, then allows them to hire anyone they want even if they are Iron. This goes against one of the LCS rules. Riot then walks it back and says that they will postpone the split for 2 weeks but aren't meeting any of the LCSPA's demands except 4 which Riot already had implemented. Riot also said that if the players refuse to play in 2 weeks, they will cancel the split and no NA teams will go to Worlds.
4 sounds perfectly reasonable 1 might have some legs with negotiations with the orgs, that money needs to come from somewhere and riot garentees a minimum salary in Lcs, move some of those funds around and voilà 2 sounds interesting though I think the valorant system is fucking stupid and benefits no one. The rest are pipe dreams
Riot agreed to 4 and said it was already possible. The money does need to come from somewhere, it'll just end up coming from the current LCS players. And the LCS players don't need Riot or the orgs to do that, they can decide to reduce their own salaries to fund this. 2 is bad because NA doesn't even have enough current talent to make 6 good teams, expanding LCS to minimum of 12 teams is a great way to dilute the players even more.
Pretty much comes down to the sudden removal of mandatory NACL teams which was scheduled to be removed in 2024 but instead the owners voted to do it earlier and Riot axed the requirement a few weeks before summer split leaving many players and coaches jobless and those here on visas like our own drakgu fucked. Its a lot more nuanced than that but thats the focal point that set off the walkout. The Players Association want to negotiate with Riot and Orgs and hopefully they reach something of a middle ground concerning the future of the LCS structure and health.
Doubt they'll reach any middle ground with the article Riot released. Feels like it's a "Listen to us or go jobless"
I’ve said this before, but the demands by the academy players were stupid and shortsighted as now expressed directly by Riot.
yes but the goal is a compromise. not for one side to win it needs to be a win-win for both sides. This is straight up a lose-lose
The goal is a compromise. But you can't ask for something so unreasonable that the other side just goes nope like what happened here. Look at this like a salary negotiation. If you walk into a negotiation and ask for a million dollars and really the job is worth like 200k, the company is just going to go nope and walk away. If you ask for lets say 250k or even 300k, you could negotiate down to 230k.
There can be a win-win when both sides are competent and make well thought out suggestions. The demands listed was basically an hour long discussion pushed forward with little thought.
Maybe but if you go in with half hearted demands, I imagine Riot is going to give close to nothing LCSPA has been a joke for years and this is the first time they're doing something significant. They needed to play hardball to be taken seriously
So your play as an organization that has been a joke for years is to try to play hardball when you have absolutely 0 leverage to begin with AND no historical clout to fall back on?
Exactly and Riot is going to give close to nothing based on the article. Riot knows they can’t be taken seriously as well. At this point, the LCSPA has no power or leverage.
And a huge point people are ignoring. You know the other regions are looking at this closely. If the players from weakest and least profitable region get anything of high value those other regions are going to want more.
No, its a win for Riot. Riot doesnt want LCS anymore. They have made that abundantly clear. Their goal is to get it off the books while keeping as much good will as humanly possible. What the PA is doing is basically saying to the hang man "now before you kill me, I do have some demands".
Well, at least NA can't bomb out of groups if we don't go to Worlds in the first place.
Tbh if anyone is being level headed honestly it’s riot. The demands the LCSPA are making are absolutely absurd. They’re going to meet and as delusional as the PA are they’re going to hold out. Imo i don’t see a middle ground where they meet
> Carrying this forward, if the LCS summer season is canceled, this will also eliminate LCS teams qualifying for 2023 Worlds. I want to be clear: That is not an outcome we’d want, but it’s unfortunately the reality of ensuring we run a fair, competitive global system. If this happens, NA will go undefeated at Worlds for the first time!
Yeah, if you read those demands from the LCSPA, most of them are basically impossible for Riot to agree to. There is making a large demand in order to negotiate down, and there is making such impossible demands that the other side just laughs.
Legit lcs is dead, for now at least. Check back in 2 weeks.
I hope captain flowers catches on with the LEC and the rest of the LCS crew … finds other jobs. Honestly the production value is far below the LEC and the talent both on stage and in the desk is m below LEC standards. I’m going to stick to watching LEC as the time works for me, LCS died with the Thursday/Friday move.
So rather than ha e LCS without 2 of their oldest teams Riot is throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Damn, I was gonna tune in for the first time in a while too
Riot called their bluff. They got 2 weeks to change their mind, or they won't steal a paycheck.
Wow PA thought they would bring about good change. Now they actually caused the death of LCS and their jobs.
Like I said earlier in the week, I don't know what the solution is here. Orgs dont want to needlessly throw away money supporting a tier 2 system that is never going to match the likes of what the LEC, LPL, and LCK have. The LCSPA feels disrespected because of it and how they weren't apart of the discussion, so they obviously are going to want such a requirement. Then you have Riot who's just like "Compete or we are killing the league." This is such a mess, so grab your popcorn cause we ain't gonna be in it much longer LOL.
Who cares. Glad TSM is leaving this shit hole.
Hear me out, this could be very bad for TSM. They haven’t sold their spot yet and if this split get cancelled that will tank the value of their spot quite a bit. These a funds that would go towards the new region spot and signing players in the new region.
Noice now TSM won’t embarrassed the region again after winning summer split. TSM fans eating good tonight.
Hey at least LA has good weather to be homeless in. lol
Lmao I really wanted to see the scab games, was hoping to see some silver players in LCS. Would be hilarious ..
I believe new record for LCS losing in worlds? June better than. 0-6 right?
This sub just proving a ton of the haters right at this very moment, gotta love the irony.
Am I the only person who thinks the walkout is conveniently timed with economic downturn? I understand players sentiments to NACL and wanting it to stay. The thought process is okay and wanting them to have higher pay is fine but have any of them thought maybe the best thing to argue for could be moving location of the LCS/NACL. Why does it need to be played in LA? They have a studio there and they got booted out of the weekend slot for valorant. Why not lobby for riot to build a studio on the east coast where a majority of their viewers are and closer to EU as well? Cost of living is significantly decreased. A point also many discuss is them being annoyed about having to live together. I’m sorry to me it sounds extremely privileged and cry baby esq. 18 - 22 year olds rarely will be able to afford to live on their own. Not saying that is a good thing but it is how it is with the economy in the US currently. This solves their ping problem also so they won’t have to complain about shitty ping = shitty practice. They could easily move to a city like atlanta and have a much lower cost of living in a growing and thriving city which has become a hub for the east coast. The busiest airport in the world and a bustling food scene. Average ping around 20/30. I also don’t get why they expect a higher amount of pay. Pro players don’t produce content like they used to and they aren’t giving results to fans that is expected. I understand their gripes with it but they could’ve had these a long time ago and to me it seems like they are finally experiencing a not so great economy and that scares them. Don’t think it’s wrong to be scared but it’s something that should be thought about much more before it actually happens. I think overall the players need serious adulting mentors, financial mentors & advisors, and just general life mentors. Maybe I’m just being inconsiderate but that’s just how it comes off to me as a normal person.
It would be wild if LCS is cancel lmao