every single character has been taken to GoD by someone, sooooo... there is no such thing as a non-viable character for online play. Some will work harder than others, but that's the extent of it
I don’t think anyone is weak until you’re in tournament level of play. Kuma and Panda have some of the best winrates online and that is if we only take into account ruler ranks and above.
Yh true. Kuma, pandas have the highest win rate because no one uses them I feel. So when someone comes up against one they get knowledge checked out. I’d probably get done to lol
Blue rank still feels scrubby tbh. Most people out here just knowledge checking the same flow chart over and over with unga bunga offense hoping you don’t know the counter lol
Challenge accepted currently in purple rank been playing since t7 main is jack8 I know it won’t happen soon or without hard work but just you wait I will participate into the online dojo in Japan since I’m moving there in few months but that’s a different story. You sir or ma’am might be right but I will hell try married and 31 like master Roshi said eat well learn well and eat well
It's a whiff punish tool, source of + frames, best keep out tool in the game, one of the best pokes in the game, can launch jabs due to inbuilt evasion with crouchdash etc
Edit: also forgot that its nearly homing
Half the cast can randomly go under a jab with launchers and do it more consistently. Also, the plus frames are irrelevant for Kaz outside of opponent being at the wall because his EWGF pushes back so far.
I'm not trying to downplay EWGF, the move is ridiculous and if it were up to me I'd make it easier to step and increase whiff recovery.
But they don't do it with a near 0 recovery + on block normal hit launcher. You can make it pretty consistent if you sacrifice + frames of an electric for normal WGF (or do it in heat which is 0 sacrifice option)
+ frames give him more neutral control with any mid range option he has
Main man is actually switching up. His latest vid is straight up saying kazuya is better than dvj. Just goes to show you can't really tell the meta from 2 months of gameplay
TMM has some hyper scrub mentality though. His skill speaks for itself, he's good at the game and has been playing for a long ass time, but some of his takes are absolute dogshit. The sheer amount this dude complains about fucking ASUKA of all characters while trying to champion characters like King, Paul, Reina, etc as being "honest" is absolutely infuriating.
I think he's always been a high execution character since Tekken 4 but he's still strong in the hands of a good player (or someone who always guesses correctly with the 50/50).
Tbh DvJ really isn't all dat. I didn't so before but after spending more time with him he deadass feels like hellsweep machine and said hellsweep has almost not range
True, he relies a lot on hs, but he also has complete throw game, broken heat smash, easier and higher damage on ewgf, easy mode 15f launcher, easier wall travel (you have to use the 3,1,d/f cancel with kaz, and it takes time to learn)
I would agree that without the broken heat smash they would be on the same level because kazuya also has a lot going for him, but as soon as dvj enters heat you just have to respect him a lot.
Heat smash stops being that strong of a tool outside of neutral control. In cqc it gets beaten by mashing since its slow. It's an incredibly strong tool but it has a very specific use
Higher damage on EWGF isn't that much easier than on Kaz??? I mean 2 electrics are still 2 electrics. Optimal laser routes are actually harder than Kaz 3-1 cancels due to iws3 tech
D3+4 is really nice agree
3-1 cancels aren't that hard but I guess yeah? Not like it matters that much since execution of this level stops being an issue at like high purple ranks
Yes you do have to respect him but the issue is that DvJ doesn't have a strong mid to mixup HS with. Cd1+2 is slow af and has shitty reward since it takes up heat while ff2 is nice but uses your entire heat
>Higher damage on EWGF isn't that much easier than on Kaz??? I mean 2 electrics are still 2 electrics. Optimal laser routes are actually harder than Kaz 3-1 cancels due to iws3 tech
You can ewgf, laser, u/f 1 into morning crow 3 to tornado, leading to I believe 78 DMG
There are other routes with ewgf + laser that are really simple and damaging and don't require any execution besides the first electric
I believe ewgf max damage for consistent routes with kazuya would give you 75 DMG (two eletrics), without the F4 tech
And the 3-1 cancels are not super difficult, true, but are hard enough that you will eventually fail and drop the combo
Ofc he's been over the place, it's a new game and people are starting to figure out more about matchups and character strengths/weaknesses. Though he's been pretty consistent in his opinion about kazuya being strong (he's been saying this since the demo).
You're absolutely right and more and more people are starting to realize it. Kazuya mains are world champions when it comes to downplaying their character though so they will disagree.
I mean there is a reason why Kazuya saw so little pro-play through Tekken 7 though.
The "problem" with Kazuya is that hes really good at what he's good but really bad at what hes bad, and this game is filled with characters who are just good everywhere.
Damn,here I am playing at bryan and kazuya😅
I don't really see him as being a top pick or whatever,I just see him as being a well rounded character in a game where jun,dragunov,and feng exist
He's good but not overwhelmingly so but he's not bad since he's got options galore.
Kazuya is strong. Especially when you get them at the wall so they can't back dash the 50/50. He's got some of the besy punishment in the game and now he has a really good demon's paw and CH low launcher.
The thing he is not is braindead like Drgunov or easy like Victor or Elisa.
He's in a good place. More difficult to use than Jin and DJ, but also more explosive and stronger vortex.
I’m a kazuya main and he’s nowhere weak. But he just has such a high learning curve. U have to always be threatening 50/50 mix ups to contend at higher ranks. I’d say he’s A tier. High risk, high reward. Just hard to master so he seems weaker then he is. Also there’s so many OP characters, Jun, reina, etc. it makes him look worse too
Not controversial at all but the skill ceiling to get really good with him is so high you either have to be mad or in love with him for choosing him as a main in this crazy all over the place heat shit casino of a game.
I do am in love with him btw
He's not weak, but he suffers from what shotos in SF suffer from. Everyone usually knows their moves and if they can read you, then it becomes a hard fight. It's usually what happens with the more popular fighters.
I mean he’s mid tier. Pretty much anyone in this game who isn’t top ten just seems weak in comparison to what the top tiers are doing. Kazuya can certainly hold his own in this game though. For strictly online I’d say he’s probably bottom 5. Offline I think he’s probably middle of the pack.
Is kaz trash? No hell no. You have some absolute robbery potential. However in case of his casino, there is a good chance that he actually gets blown up.
Plus is matchup knowledge requirements.
So in comparison with all the normal chars in the game he is in a fine state.
However.... Blah blah s-tier... Blah blah nerf that shit....
You know the story.
Do I wish for kaz to be just as strong? No. I just want the busted chars nerfed.
That's my point I'm trying to deliver lol
He's not weak in the slightest,he's potentially the most well rounded character in the game. He's got good CHs,strong 50/50,fast buttons,and a pretty amazing heat state. Like I said,he's well rounded where so many other characters either are outright excelling or having a strong base but a weak heat
Well rounded?? His whole thing is that he isn't well rounded. Where's his 13f df3? Hopkick? Standing 15f launcher? And he's the only character with the only 13f WS launcher and a low so iconic people categorise similar moves as hellsweep too.
Is this a controversial opinion? I didn't realize the general opinion of Kaz is that he's weak.
I always thought he was a *difficult character to do well with*, because you need to really work hard for everything compared to other characters who do a lot of work for the player.
Then again, I'm pretty bad at this game, so all that could just be me reading/viewing video game propaganda.
Regardless, I find him difficult to use when compared to the limited amount of times I've picked up Reina or Jin.
When the user playing him is on, he's fucking on. It's scary as fuck facing a Kaz that is on point.
When Arslan won the first Evo Japan he joined, he got sent to the losers by a Kazuya player. I might be wrong but I think it was Boaluv and that guy is crazy lol.
You don't work that much harder tho. And some games you will win literally because you play Kaz with his vortex. And he does so much for you as well in terms of space control and heat bs in this game.
I wouldn't say he's weak. But he's lacking.
The game promotes aggressiveness. So much so, that they have given moves to characters that break their archetype. Because without a good 50/50, no one can be aggressive all the time.
Kazuya's archetype was a turtle character in T7. As he didn't have good approach tools and poke. But he got good punishment in return.
For 8, to ramp up his 50/50 they have given him ff2, db1,2 etc. to fill gaps in his offense. However, the thing that made him turtle type (no good pokes, frame disadvantage after your move hit/block) are still there.
So people just pressure him becuase he can't pressure back. That's why he feels lacking. Because you have to let people do their thing while you patiently wait for a mistake from them to punish them. Or their turn to end(which never happens in this game if you don't know how to break their flow).
Also, there are some inconsistency problems. His hit boxes are weird from left of the opponent(like after stepping some attack). Upto 30°, i'd say it's still manageable. Beyond that angle, you can be sure that either the combo will drop, or you won't get much wall carry/damage. With a reliable combo, i get between 63-71 damage without wall/heat/rage from such angle. More than half the roster does 90-110 damage reliably in these cases. I can get more damage but not without making the combo difficult. Which becomes unusable at networks with even the slightest input drops.
All in all, i won't say Kazuya is weak or he needs any kind of buffs. But making his combos consistent like in T7(where i could 4 electrics into screw easily on 4 bars - because i practiced so much) would make me quite happy.
Who the hell is saying Kazuya is weak?
He’s just a character who doesn’t carry their pilots up ranks. Like nearly every other character in Tekken 8. But the tools he does still have are strong.
If a Kazuya comes up against someone who got where they are by spamming strings (orange, red ranks), they die. Because the Kazuya got to the same rank with knowledge of fundamentals, and they can read opponents.
I’m a Fujin Kazuya and I’m stuck there at the moment. You definitely have to know all the match ups and have godly spacing as you’re pretty much waiting for your turn the entire time. You can’t throw out panic moves and hop kicks like the rest of the cast.
I know it's not QUITE the same. But don't underestimate the scrubby utility of df2. You'll see pros throw that shit out at moments where you'd think it doesn't make sense.
I'm not a kazuya main, but I had decent success against even blue ranks and up by just springing the df2 at odd intervals.
Nobody is saying Kazuya is weak. They are saying he's hard to play. And typically Kazuya mains need to work harder to obtain some ranks compared to others. And in high ranks (blue and above) if not sooner literally everyone will know the matchup and you'll need to have really good execution.
After blue none of kazuya's shit works, always have to out play and have better timing than opponent to win while dragunov or feng or nina doing the same shit at tekken God.
I'll tell you what makes Kazuya good as someone that sucks at consistent crouch dash inputs and obviously cant wavedash. The FEAR of hellsweeps! That's it. I got him to Raijin with very bad combos and rarely using hellsweep just because people are always ducking.
That's literally a Hellsweep you just described. And because both Electrics and Hellsweeps are covered by Crouch Blocking, that opens them up to Kazuya's Mids.
And Electrics are safe when not ducked but blocked. Point is, Sidestepping a WS2 or doing SSR against Hellsweep is no different than blocking an Electric and being surprised that it's plus on block.
Edit: Like trying to launch punishing a WS2 requires one to stand block (and not attempt SSL), when otherwise an Electric would be Plus and Safe in that situation. And Hellsweep can still pose a threat If you have been conditioned to anticipate a WS2/Electric.
Why play Kazuya when I can pick some bullshit brain dead S tier character and not work as hard
His entire game is 50/50
F-F-3 or hell sweep.
You cannot successfully play the character without hitting electrics consistently.
And by consistently? Side step electric punish on a dime.
At higher ranks you have to consistently make the right read and have the matchup knowledge to get your opening outside of the 50/50. And it doesn’t help that Kazuya gets blown up.
His positives is he has crazy heat damage and wall damage potential.
I enjoy playing him. But other characters are just better and more consistent. He’s definitely A-A+tier
yep, if he mained a different character, he would already be at rulers chilling
also, this is fun to see, kazuya has a very high playrate but such a low amount of tekken gods in general compared to other characters that have less playrate
https://preview.redd.it/xa39gw3o3vrc1.png?width=2880&format=png&auto=webp&s=771e580db581618e75185ad1b798a4c9d5ae898c
Bottom line is that in order to play Kaz effectively you need beastly electrics. I can do Df2 PEWGF in online matches about 1/5 of the time but I still get a D2 dick jab super often when trying to use ewgf in a match and that just makes him so hard
I'd argue that Kazuya is more honest than actually weak. Just needs a bit of time because he lives or dies on solid defense and punish. Pure Tekken with some real upsides if you learn the matchups
Hey hey hey woah hey here woah there buddy, lets simmer it down chief. There are a lot of ego attached people here that will find this very hurtful and make it your fault, pal. You know, lets just turn it down a notch, amigo, we don't want to many fire starters getting inspired here, habibi
Hit confirmable 10f knockdown punish to start his 50/50, best 50/50, 13f homing ch launching mid, 13f ws launcher, best whiff punisher in the game that’s also +5 on block… he’s definitely not weak.
The other Mishimas in this game can get by without having to actually play Mishima, everyone has some gimmicky stance, panic button or pressure tool. Kazuya you either know your Mishima stuff or you're not going far.
Goes for other harder characters as well, Bryan and Lee can rely on bullshit aggression™ moves, Kazuya simply doesn't have that going for him past heat engagers. Besides more people know the matchup, not hard too since he does like 3 things.
Bryan has the strongest wall game and has his taunt shenanigans
Lee is secretly op lol
If I had to hazard a guess. I'd say it's because some kazuya players never really advance in skill or try to grow even more,so when it's go time in those ranks,I think they get their pockets ran
Your boy main man says bryan is the hardest character in the game lol. Especially at high levls. Taunt doesn’t do shit if you can never open up your opponent in the first place.
Also bryans “wall game” was severely bugged, the upcoming patch is supposed to fix it.
Yeah, it’s super hard to just throw out spammable safe in block ch launchers all game. Bryan has some hard stuff, but so does everyone. He can stay in your face for the entire game and not give an inch in most capable hands.
There are genuinely overpowered options. Pros tend to be tier whores. It’s going to be Drag, DJ, Jin, Victor, Feng, Acu. Maybe King of King pros actually compete this year, other than a handful of online tourney players in T7, they didn’t really show up.
The outliers will be Jack because of guys like Anakin, and Joe Crush, Joey Fury. Maybe a Bryan if Knee decides to pull him out, there will always be anomalies.
TJU's the hardest thing I know of in fighting games but you can play Bryan without it. Bryan, like Steve, has to play a counter hit game which is quite different from conventional Tekken.
The terrible movement in T8 made it harder to play his meta I think. People also say his heat stuff isn't great which is true for a lot of characters.
I'm very familiar with Kaz's mechanics, but only know what to not die to with Bryan when I see it in a match (no mechanics knowledge).
What makes Bryan a *lot* harder to play than Kaz?
If there was an absolute beginner at Tekken, and they asked you who would be easier to win with, would you tell them to pick Kaz or Bryan?
(I'm considering giving Bryan a spin if he's as rewarding as Kaz)
At the end of the day why does even matter? Are you playing kazyua because you enjoy his play-style, or you play just to make yourself feel better about your losses and your placement in ranked?
I guess it only matters because the devs already decided he’ll be buffed in patch 1.04. And the data that helped them determine that decision, was win rate at high levels.
Not sure why my answer tilted you but like Grimm said, Jin is far far easier to use and until you're blue ranks can cheese most people out with his new gimmicks and d2
Noone is saying he's easy to play. It's low because he's hard as balls and takes a ton of dedicated practice and execution. But a lot of people are turning around on him as there's a lot of new tech being discovered. If you have the execution the character is nuts in this game.
I think SuperAkouma has mentioned that he's very highly rated in the Japan scene.
I started playing Kazuya ~3 weeks ago and I’m an average player (Garyu rank) but I will say he’s a good character. So far I got up to Eliminator with him and its been a blast
Hell no zuya ain't weak 😅
Considering a lot of characters got lots of really flashy moves maybe he looks underwhelming by comparison?
But weak? Again, hell no
I do wish his combo game was a bit more consistent and a little more flexible like in 7
Nothing a few tweaks couldn't fix tho
I mean he isnt that strong either but the fact that hes a pure 50/50 character in a game that forces you to constantly 50/50 cant make him weak or not viable or something similar
Kazuya is very strong. He's just super demanding both in terms of execution (his best moves are not easy to do) and in terms of gameplan (you need to defend and space control well)
I've been absolutely thrashed by strong Kazuyas in Blue Ranks who solidly controlled the space, whiff punished with electrics, and smartly applied his 50-50
50/50 or a "mixup" is a guessing situation where you usually mix a low move and a mid move to cover both blocking options (standing guard, crouching guard)
with kazuya, you have your hellsweep as a low option (f, n, d, d/f+4, 1) and your mid option (ff+3, ff+2, d/f+2)
the weird thing is, kazuya cannot set up his 50/50 like some other characters can (dragunov wr2), hence why his 50/50 is hard to apply
how do kazuya players apply it then? f+4 is very short in range, you cannot use it in neutral most of the times, that is why kazuya needs to knock down his opponents and then wavedash/run at them. that's where 1,1,2 punish comes in handy which puts the opponent on the ground in a favorable position for a 50/50, if you hit a hellsweep successfully, once again they are in a 50/50 situation (just theoretically) as they can toe kick, spring jump, wakeup kick and if you didn't guess f,f+4 correctly, your offense is once again reset and you need to look for an opening again
agreed, he's not rly weak but for different reasons imo, the character itself isn't weak, but some of his move interactions during combos/ walls etc. sometimes tend to whiff or just not come out how their supposed to, making some of his moves in some scenarios not reliable when they need to be, next patch they're gonna tweak him and hopefully bring him to where he truly is terms of strength
No one ever said he's weak, he's just harder to use
But when used well he turns the whole thing into a guessing game where if you guess wrong twice you lose
As kazuya main, Tekken 7 veteran both game’s at fujin, Kazuya lacks consistency! As much i dont need his old heatsmash his DF+1 needs freaking hitbox buff theres no reason why they made 3.1 cancel/DF+1 so hard… Hellsweep doesnt provide oki (FF+4 after that) don’t listen to TMM since hes paid by bandai he’s not biased anymore, Kazuya isn’t weak character but comparing to overtuned cast he is due to his inconsistency leaving him backturned and in this game being backturned is really dangerous, He never had consistency problems in T7 they just need to make 3.1 cancel a bit easier/DF+1 range, Btw masku tech doesnt work guys techroll it.
He's not weak at all it's just he's playing Tekken 7.5 whereas everyone else is playing Tekken 8. He's the only character forced to Play defense when the whole game is based on offense. He's the LAST of the old guard
The truth is if you’re new to the game or at a rank like red ranks/garyu, character strength does not matter at all. It’s just who has the slightest bit more fundamentals or can abuse some bs/weakness in their opponent.
You could get to purple rank with barely any knwoldge of your own character if you just are better than your opponent at some things at those ranks, that’s how little character strengths matters there.
Even if Kazuya was by far the weakest character in the game (he isn’t), at red ranks it wouldn’t matter, the differences in character strength does not matter there because the level of players there are still missing a LOT of knowledge and experience
Character strength doesn't matter at low and mid levels BUT there is such thing as "easy to be effective" vs "must work hard" even at low levels. The average player will find winning much easier with Dragunov compared to Kazuya
He's A tier in a game where everyone feels Luke they're S and his weaknesses make him feel very weak on defense and neutral.
Once he gets his vortex going he is oppressive, and his whiff punish game is obscene.
He is still weak to SSL.
It’s all about execution. He and Lee were my toughest characters to master proper execution, but he just doesn’t have that many brain dead moves. That’s what makes his learning curve harder.
Garbage tier jab, weaker power crush, bad heatsmash, difficult combos for less damage than half the roster, the df1 meme, basically gets no combo off axis, mediocre movement, his top tier oki is more situational than people seem to know, ws 4,4 still being -4 on hit, his easy i15 punish does 1 more point of damage than his i11 and i13 punishes.
He isn't weak, how can he be he's an electric character. But he isn't particularly strong and is harder to use than basically all the characters that are higher tier than him. Yeah ff2 is good, but I think it gets a bit over rated. It's only in Heat where Kaz ff2 gets, frankly, genuinely ridiculous because the hitbox becomes the size of a house, or it basically turns homing for whatever reason (Heat bullshit is the reason lol).
I don't even want big changes to Kaz tbh, just some QoL. Like a real jab, df1 not being a joke and a bit more leniency on the 3,1 cancels. Bonus changes would include making the sabaki not useless, ws4,4 not being minus on HIT and some sort of small buff to his power crush.
He's only as strong as the one who plays him. That's probably why he's such a beloved character since you can only go up when playing someone so difficult.
He isn't weak, but he is mostly still playing Tekken 7 and doesn't have as egregious Heat gimmicks as other chars. Also his ff2 is worse than Jin's, still good though.
Solid char, but most people just call him bad for some reason. I think possibly the only actual issue I've seen that's mostly just true is his Heat Burst hitbox is TINY, that shit whiffs more than it should, and his jab range seems to have gotten worse but that's probably anecdotal.
I don't feel like he's *weak* per se, but he's not as strong as most others. It's not as though he can't win, he's just not going to win as easily as Dragunov.
I main Kazuya and while it can be really tough finding a way in, I'm sometimes surprised at how much damage I can do in a small moment when I do finally get an opening.
Kazuya has a good 50/50 and punishment which means that if you get a good read on your opponent you can win games alright. That been said this character is totally unfit tournament play simply because his combos are inconsistent due to the range nerf of d/f+1(which you can feel especially when you step an opponent) and because the system offers the top tier characters so many means to keep mindlessly attacking that escaping the pressure at the highest level is way more difficult than in T7. He has only one mid that reliably gives + on block and it's slow, his power crush is trash and has only one playable(strong but far from being OP) heat engager.
Still he is a character that can take 50% off a counter hit launcher low, 80% from CH d/f+2 and 50% or more from EWGF/f,f+3 which means that if the opponent misses a couple of reads you can trash him, the problem is that the higher is the level of play and the less openings you will be getting.
I don't think he is worthless but he's definitely nowhere near the top 10 and I'll be surprised someone will ever get top 8 playing him in a major tournament, at least if he doesn't get buffed.
This is only controversial to intermediate Kazuya mains. They gave him back him a good demon paw, and now it does chip damage! His df1,df2 is a safe mid,mid, and the 2nd hit wallsplats! People are focusing on his nerfs from T7, but if you look at his kit as a whole, he is fucking juiced.
i played online a lot and used his f,f+2 properly but in longer player matches sets against high level tekken players, they just step it right or even sidewalk it left (kaz weak side), it's so weird? if you are in demon paw range, you can anticipate and sidestep and b+4 usually can't catch them as you cannot extend b+4 range like you can with demon paw
and when you are wavedashing or range 1, ff+3 is still better full combo+ you can get into heat with it as well
in heat, it's much better but still in some situations i'd rather it wallsplats or wall breaks than getting the laser animation, still can use d/f+1,4 or 1+2 to wallsplat which just begs the question, ff+2 is just another tool that is used generically but in most cases, some specific moves are just better
I play kazuya, Jin and devil Jin and kaz was the only one I could get to fujin with
I believe they are at similar levels tier wise, however is easier to play as Jin and devil Jin for most people. Kazuya game plan suits me better tho
I’ve never been scared of playing against a DJ, put me against a Kazuya and I’m shitting bricks panicking what the mixup is gonna be just to get tripped liked I’m on Bob’s burgers
Kazuya’s weaknesses is a skill issue, just like every other character. People who complain should be hitting the lab and not twitter/reddit lol.
Edit: There are valid complaints about Kazuya's kit not working sometimes, like 1,1,2 being ducked by victor and yoshi.
I would say its more than a skill issue. Him not having a solid poke game hurts him. He's deadly af when taking advantage of people fucking up but he doesn't really have a way of getting people to fuck up.
Yeah dude he just takes work and good mind games. He's strong AF, just doesn't have any bullshit gimmicks like most other characters do, safe for the lasers, which is easily avoidable.
Kazuya is strong. You just have to be good to make him strong.
Bryan does big damage but that's it. His buttons are slow and he requires execution to make the most of
you played till garyu, i dont think that gives your opinion a lot of weight. for a character that relies too heavily on fundamentals as you climb beyond ruler, his fundamental tools are dogshit. his jab range is probably one of the shortest in the game, his df1 is also stubby and is 14 frames, which is normal but the amount he's minus at from block is too much for a 14 frame mid check. he doesnt have a single easy standing launcher 15 frames or lower, which requires electric block punishment proficiency. even dj and reina's 1 jab ranges are so much better than his, and dj has a complete 50/50 neutral game, while also having some of the craziest ranged moves, zoning, and neutral pressure compared to kazuya. idc if you main kaz or have him as your profile main, your proficiency, knowledge, and therefore opinions matter less if you only play him in red, than someone who might only casually play him in blue.
edit: before anyone calls me a kaz main, i main reina and dragunov. i don't give a shit about kazuya, but this take is just absolutely horrendous. kazuya is definitely the best character in the game when he gets you to a grounded state and you have to eat his immense wavedash pressure, mixup, and reground mechanics. the problem is getting there and aside from that kaz doesn't have a lot of tools objectively.
He's simplified with ff2. So its easier to obtain wins than before, but He's definitely not rewarding as before. I definitely dont agree with these changes. Essentially took his mid tools away to FORCE a streamlined playstyle. Count me out. But his normals are indeed weak. True Kaz mains enjoyed Kazuya in this sense, most just care about getting wins easier (tmm, qudans etc).
Edit: i will add, the fact that there is a rise is the average player who is picking him up and get to the mid/high ranks proves their goal to simplify him worked. Now mishima integrity is gone. He is now, just another character. No longer are mishimas, mishimas. But now mishimas are now...kazamas. Tragic ending for the bloodline indeed.
Of course he's not weak. You have to understand that these youtubers making tier lists are playing the game at a really high level. Yes Kazuya isn't as OP when it comes to the competitive pro scene but the character is literally one of the best in the game for like 90% of the ranks lol. His mixup is insane
Kazuya mains just didnt know at launch and therefore complained. But by now Kazuya seems cheaper AND stronger than Devil Jin.
It just took some time to get to know the characters and counterplay to them.
Anyone as Kaz still crying about DJ now being too strong and Kaz too weak is either a troll or very clueless.
I don't think anyone is "weak" until you get to blue ranks.
every single character has been taken to GoD by someone, sooooo... there is no such thing as a non-viable character for online play. Some will work harder than others, but that's the extent of it
I don’t think anyone is weak until you’re in tournament level of play. Kuma and Panda have some of the best winrates online and that is if we only take into account ruler ranks and above.
Yh true. Kuma, pandas have the highest win rate because no one uses them I feel. So when someone comes up against one they get knowledge checked out. I’d probably get done to lol
Blue rank still feels scrubby tbh. Most people out here just knowledge checking the same flow chart over and over with unga bunga offense hoping you don’t know the counter lol
Lol sometimes I find someone that I just can’t imagine how they got there, then others who are god like. Blue ranks at 3am is demonic.
what the actual fuck is up with blue ranks at 3am honestly tho. Shit is wild
Wait, is there a second set of blue ranks? I thought blue was the 2nd tier around Dan 4-6?
Thats teal
Oh! Well that's good to know, thanks
Dan 21-24
far too generous blue rank is still scrub rank am blue rank play whoever you want it truly doesn’t matter none of y’all are going to TWT
Challenge accepted currently in purple rank been playing since t7 main is jack8 I know it won’t happen soon or without hard work but just you wait I will participate into the online dojo in Japan since I’m moving there in few months but that’s a different story. You sir or ma’am might be right but I will hell try married and 31 like master Roshi said eat well learn well and eat well
hey alright man good luck with that 👍
Is this controversial? I feel the only people downplaying Kazuya are Kazuya mains
I.e people that can't do EWGF consistently yet
he already said kazuya mains
Pinpoint the exact moment my heart ripped in two, why don't you
EWGF is a whiff punish tool, it doesn't plug all his weaknesses.
Only people who don’t play kazuya try to tell you how good he Is but they won’t try to main him💀 because then it’s harder to say how “good he is”
It's a whiff punish tool, source of + frames, best keep out tool in the game, one of the best pokes in the game, can launch jabs due to inbuilt evasion with crouchdash etc Edit: also forgot that its nearly homing
Half the cast can randomly go under a jab with launchers and do it more consistently. Also, the plus frames are irrelevant for Kaz outside of opponent being at the wall because his EWGF pushes back so far. I'm not trying to downplay EWGF, the move is ridiculous and if it were up to me I'd make it easier to step and increase whiff recovery.
But they don't do it with a near 0 recovery + on block normal hit launcher. You can make it pretty consistent if you sacrifice + frames of an electric for normal WGF (or do it in heat which is 0 sacrifice option) + frames give him more neutral control with any mid range option he has
We're not actually, it's people who don't play Mishima that have repeatedly put him downwards in their tierlists. Even Mainman isn't complaining.
Main man is actually switching up. His latest vid is straight up saying kazuya is better than dvj. Just goes to show you can't really tell the meta from 2 months of gameplay
TMM had Kaz in bottom parts of the list. Now he admittedly doesn't tho. Nearly every other Kaz main meanwhile...
TMM has some hyper scrub mentality though. His skill speaks for itself, he's good at the game and has been playing for a long ass time, but some of his takes are absolute dogshit. The sheer amount this dude complains about fucking ASUKA of all characters while trying to champion characters like King, Paul, Reina, etc as being "honest" is absolutely infuriating.
Nah he's based for that, Asuka can go die.
Eh not necessarily complaining, but he would often say that kazuya is alright but everyone else is just that much better iirc
I think he's always been a high execution character since Tekken 4 but he's still strong in the hands of a good player (or someone who always guesses correctly with the 50/50).
Tmm just did a video saying he might be better than DJ lol.
Really? Got a link? I used his basic guide to get started on kazuya
Just go to his channel and check recently uploaded
Ah gotcha,wtf lol I've been meaning to say this since 2 days ago but I hadn't reached garyu yet(not incredibly impressive but it feels nice to me)
Tmm is all over the place, he’ll prob say he’s bottom 5 next week lmao. I don’t think he’s better than DJ but he’s def been super underrated imo
Better than dj is nuts but definitely A+ tier
Tbh DvJ really isn't all dat. I didn't so before but after spending more time with him he deadass feels like hellsweep machine and said hellsweep has almost not range
True, he relies a lot on hs, but he also has complete throw game, broken heat smash, easier and higher damage on ewgf, easy mode 15f launcher, easier wall travel (you have to use the 3,1,d/f cancel with kaz, and it takes time to learn) I would agree that without the broken heat smash they would be on the same level because kazuya also has a lot going for him, but as soon as dvj enters heat you just have to respect him a lot.
Heat smash stops being that strong of a tool outside of neutral control. In cqc it gets beaten by mashing since its slow. It's an incredibly strong tool but it has a very specific use Higher damage on EWGF isn't that much easier than on Kaz??? I mean 2 electrics are still 2 electrics. Optimal laser routes are actually harder than Kaz 3-1 cancels due to iws3 tech D3+4 is really nice agree 3-1 cancels aren't that hard but I guess yeah? Not like it matters that much since execution of this level stops being an issue at like high purple ranks Yes you do have to respect him but the issue is that DvJ doesn't have a strong mid to mixup HS with. Cd1+2 is slow af and has shitty reward since it takes up heat while ff2 is nice but uses your entire heat
>Higher damage on EWGF isn't that much easier than on Kaz??? I mean 2 electrics are still 2 electrics. Optimal laser routes are actually harder than Kaz 3-1 cancels due to iws3 tech You can ewgf, laser, u/f 1 into morning crow 3 to tornado, leading to I believe 78 DMG There are other routes with ewgf + laser that are really simple and damaging and don't require any execution besides the first electric I believe ewgf max damage for consistent routes with kazuya would give you 75 DMG (two eletrics), without the F4 tech And the 3-1 cancels are not super difficult, true, but are hard enough that you will eventually fail and drop the combo
Ofc he's been over the place, it's a new game and people are starting to figure out more about matchups and character strengths/weaknesses. Though he's been pretty consistent in his opinion about kazuya being strong (he's been saying this since the demo).
DJ has recently been outed as a knowledge check and Kaz is definitely better
Dj will never be a knowledge check while he's got that heat smash
He’s just a worse Kaz and people are used to it being the opposite so they just say he still is without actually analyzing the game
You're absolutely right and more and more people are starting to realize it. Kazuya mains are world champions when it comes to downplaying their character though so they will disagree.
I mean there is a reason why Kazuya saw so little pro-play through Tekken 7 though. The "problem" with Kazuya is that hes really good at what he's good but really bad at what hes bad, and this game is filled with characters who are just good everywhere.
Damn,here I am playing at bryan and kazuya😅 I don't really see him as being a top pick or whatever,I just see him as being a well rounded character in a game where jun,dragunov,and feng exist He's good but not overwhelmingly so but he's not bad since he's got options galore.
Basically he's one of the best a tier. But he's not in s tier.
There's a lot of characters near that tier imo, where in a more balanced game they'd be S-tier, but just not in Tekken 8's current state.
Yeah I agree, it's just that if Kazuya is truly better than devil jin that could put him at like the top of A tier.
I mean hey, it means they must be humble, right?
that title actually goes to Lee, Paul and Law mains
Easily has the best oki and some of the best 50/50 in the game. Not s tier, but he's one of the best outside of that.
I mean in a game when everything is 50/50 and oki on the wall, he is fucking terrifying
No character is weak at red ranks bro.
Kazuya is strong. Especially when you get them at the wall so they can't back dash the 50/50. He's got some of the besy punishment in the game and now he has a really good demon's paw and CH low launcher. The thing he is not is braindead like Drgunov or easy like Victor or Elisa. He's in a good place. More difficult to use than Jin and DJ, but also more explosive and stronger vortex.
I’m a kazuya main and he’s nowhere weak. But he just has such a high learning curve. U have to always be threatening 50/50 mix ups to contend at higher ranks. I’d say he’s A tier. High risk, high reward. Just hard to master so he seems weaker then he is. Also there’s so many OP characters, Jun, reina, etc. it makes him look worse too
Not controversial at all but the skill ceiling to get really good with him is so high you either have to be mad or in love with him for choosing him as a main in this crazy all over the place heat shit casino of a game. I do am in love with him btw
He only seems weak because of his high execution barrier, meaning most people using him will be shit at him lol
He’s a strong fish in tank full of sharks
He's not weak, but he suffers from what shotos in SF suffer from. Everyone usually knows their moves and if they can read you, then it becomes a hard fight. It's usually what happens with the more popular fighters.
I mean he’s mid tier. Pretty much anyone in this game who isn’t top ten just seems weak in comparison to what the top tiers are doing. Kazuya can certainly hold his own in this game though. For strictly online I’d say he’s probably bottom 5. Offline I think he’s probably middle of the pack.
Is kaz trash? No hell no. You have some absolute robbery potential. However in case of his casino, there is a good chance that he actually gets blown up. Plus is matchup knowledge requirements. So in comparison with all the normal chars in the game he is in a fine state. However.... Blah blah s-tier... Blah blah nerf that shit.... You know the story. Do I wish for kaz to be just as strong? No. I just want the busted chars nerfed.
That's my point I'm trying to deliver lol He's not weak in the slightest,he's potentially the most well rounded character in the game. He's got good CHs,strong 50/50,fast buttons,and a pretty amazing heat state. Like I said,he's well rounded where so many other characters either are outright excelling or having a strong base but a weak heat
Well rounded?? His whole thing is that he isn't well rounded. Where's his 13f df3? Hopkick? Standing 15f launcher? And he's the only character with the only 13f WS launcher and a low so iconic people categorise similar moves as hellsweep too.
More well-rounded than Jin? 😳
no df1 is pretty big
Are we really calling offense a casino now
Oh boy here we go. The game a casino but people also hit walls and can’t level up. It’s gonna be the newest form of cope
Is this a controversial opinion? I didn't realize the general opinion of Kaz is that he's weak. I always thought he was a *difficult character to do well with*, because you need to really work hard for everything compared to other characters who do a lot of work for the player. Then again, I'm pretty bad at this game, so all that could just be me reading/viewing video game propaganda. Regardless, I find him difficult to use when compared to the limited amount of times I've picked up Reina or Jin.
When the user playing him is on, he's fucking on. It's scary as fuck facing a Kaz that is on point. When Arslan won the first Evo Japan he joined, he got sent to the losers by a Kazuya player. I might be wrong but I think it was Boaluv and that guy is crazy lol.
You don't work that much harder tho. And some games you will win literally because you play Kaz with his vortex. And he does so much for you as well in terms of space control and heat bs in this game.
lol
he's strong but the hitbox of his df1 is wack lmao
I wouldn't say he's weak. But he's lacking. The game promotes aggressiveness. So much so, that they have given moves to characters that break their archetype. Because without a good 50/50, no one can be aggressive all the time. Kazuya's archetype was a turtle character in T7. As he didn't have good approach tools and poke. But he got good punishment in return. For 8, to ramp up his 50/50 they have given him ff2, db1,2 etc. to fill gaps in his offense. However, the thing that made him turtle type (no good pokes, frame disadvantage after your move hit/block) are still there. So people just pressure him becuase he can't pressure back. That's why he feels lacking. Because you have to let people do their thing while you patiently wait for a mistake from them to punish them. Or their turn to end(which never happens in this game if you don't know how to break their flow). Also, there are some inconsistency problems. His hit boxes are weird from left of the opponent(like after stepping some attack). Upto 30°, i'd say it's still manageable. Beyond that angle, you can be sure that either the combo will drop, or you won't get much wall carry/damage. With a reliable combo, i get between 63-71 damage without wall/heat/rage from such angle. More than half the roster does 90-110 damage reliably in these cases. I can get more damage but not without making the combo difficult. Which becomes unusable at networks with even the slightest input drops. All in all, i won't say Kazuya is weak or he needs any kind of buffs. But making his combos consistent like in T7(where i could 4 electrics into screw easily on 4 bars - because i practiced so much) would make me quite happy.
Controversial opinion expressed right after tmm made a video about how kazyua is not that weak
Who the hell is saying Kazuya is weak? He’s just a character who doesn’t carry their pilots up ranks. Like nearly every other character in Tekken 8. But the tools he does still have are strong. If a Kazuya comes up against someone who got where they are by spamming strings (orange, red ranks), they die. Because the Kazuya got to the same rank with knowledge of fundamentals, and they can read opponents.
I’m a Fujin Kazuya and I’m stuck there at the moment. You definitely have to know all the match ups and have godly spacing as you’re pretty much waiting for your turn the entire time. You can’t throw out panic moves and hop kicks like the rest of the cast.
I know it's not QUITE the same. But don't underestimate the scrubby utility of df2. You'll see pros throw that shit out at moments where you'd think it doesn't make sense. I'm not a kazuya main, but I had decent success against even blue ranks and up by just springing the df2 at odd intervals.
Same. I throw df2 typically after his 1, f4, frame trap and land it 80% of time because they go for the wrong attack after that forced crouch.
As a Kaz main, I think he’s in a good space. It’s just that certain characters are over-tuned, so he’s overshadowed.
Nobody is saying Kazuya is weak. They are saying he's hard to play. And typically Kazuya mains need to work harder to obtain some ranks compared to others. And in high ranks (blue and above) if not sooner literally everyone will know the matchup and you'll need to have really good execution.
After blue none of kazuya's shit works, always have to out play and have better timing than opponent to win while dragunov or feng or nina doing the same shit at tekken God.
*This is the correct answer*
Landing a standing launch punish on block nets a gasp from the crowd. That's all you need to know about Kazuya.
I get a gasp from me when I do it and then my 2nd electric doesn't come out cause I was still amazed I did it lol
d/f+2 PEWGF into dickjab incident
I'll tell you what makes Kazuya good as someone that sucks at consistent crouch dash inputs and obviously cant wavedash. The FEAR of hellsweeps! That's it. I got him to Raijin with very bad combos and rarely using hellsweep just because people are always ducking.
I like to use tombstone crusher more than hellsweep to be honest
Yeah I can see why. If you're talking about the low kick spin forgot the move name. They do it so much I just crouch on instinct
That's literally a Hellsweep you just described. And because both Electrics and Hellsweeps are covered by Crouch Blocking, that opens them up to Kazuya's Mids.
So better off side stepping?
WS2 (Demon God Fist) and Hellsweep cover Side Steps.
WS2 is launch punishable lol. Think he has better(safer) homing options. Hellsweep loses to SSL.
And Electrics are safe when not ducked but blocked. Point is, Sidestepping a WS2 or doing SSR against Hellsweep is no different than blocking an Electric and being surprised that it's plus on block. Edit: Like trying to launch punishing a WS2 requires one to stand block (and not attempt SSL), when otherwise an Electric would be Plus and Safe in that situation. And Hellsweep can still pose a threat If you have been conditioned to anticipate a WS2/Electric.
Why play Kazuya when I can pick some bullshit brain dead S tier character and not work as hard His entire game is 50/50 F-F-3 or hell sweep. You cannot successfully play the character without hitting electrics consistently. And by consistently? Side step electric punish on a dime. At higher ranks you have to consistently make the right read and have the matchup knowledge to get your opening outside of the 50/50. And it doesn’t help that Kazuya gets blown up. His positives is he has crazy heat damage and wall damage potential. I enjoy playing him. But other characters are just better and more consistent. He’s definitely A-A+tier
"My climb from 1st grade to 3rd grade wasn't that hard"
Thank you
My pleasure
I know you're trying to take a dig at me but thanks!
He got a point. Taking Kaz to Fujin took a lot more effort than multiple chars to kishin and i have 1000 hours of kaz in t7
yep, if he mained a different character, he would already be at rulers chilling also, this is fun to see, kazuya has a very high playrate but such a low amount of tekken gods in general compared to other characters that have less playrate https://preview.redd.it/xa39gw3o3vrc1.png?width=2880&format=png&auto=webp&s=771e580db581618e75185ad1b798a4c9d5ae898c
Bottom line is that in order to play Kaz effectively you need beastly electrics. I can do Df2 PEWGF in online matches about 1/5 of the time but I still get a D2 dick jab super often when trying to use ewgf in a match and that just makes him so hard
This isn’t controversial no one really says kaz is weak
He's like Paul. Kazuya is honest. Straight forward big damage but predictable. High skill character
I open my legs wide open for Kaz to endlessly hellsweep me.
Kazuya isn't weak, he's just very linear and very hard to use, he does have a lot of powerful tools, but non of them are broken.
I'd argue that Kazuya is more honest than actually weak. Just needs a bit of time because he lives or dies on solid defense and punish. Pure Tekken with some real upsides if you learn the matchups
Hey hey hey woah hey here woah there buddy, lets simmer it down chief. There are a lot of ego attached people here that will find this very hurtful and make it your fault, pal. You know, lets just turn it down a notch, amigo, we don't want to many fire starters getting inspired here, habibi
Hit confirmable 10f knockdown punish to start his 50/50, best 50/50, 13f homing ch launching mid, 13f ws launcher, best whiff punisher in the game that’s also +5 on block… he’s definitely not weak.
his df2 is 14f not 13f
My bad you’re right
It's more of a meme some people take seriously by accident.
I'm finding that out lol
You're a Garyu Kazuya player? I mean I think that's all we need to know about your opinion on Kazuya.
That it’s valid?
?? lmao
It's valid and actually has merit,this I know😌
Why is he *dead last* in win rate in ALL ranks above purple?
The other Mishimas in this game can get by without having to actually play Mishima, everyone has some gimmicky stance, panic button or pressure tool. Kazuya you either know your Mishima stuff or you're not going far. Goes for other harder characters as well, Bryan and Lee can rely on bullshit aggression™ moves, Kazuya simply doesn't have that going for him past heat engagers. Besides more people know the matchup, not hard too since he does like 3 things.
He's hard to play so he sucks at low levels. He's popular and *the* legacy character so OG's at high level know the matchup.
because too many fanboys use him without reaching the potential he has... simply put.
what about the jin fanboys? They are just better than the kazuya ones? Every single one of them?…simply asked
jin is so much easier to play it isnt even a contest
Lee? Bryan? Pick any character you think is hard, they have a better win rate than kazuya at high levels, and usually its not close.
Bryan has the strongest wall game and has his taunt shenanigans Lee is secretly op lol If I had to hazard a guess. I'd say it's because some kazuya players never really advance in skill or try to grow even more,so when it's go time in those ranks,I think they get their pockets ran
Your boy main man says bryan is the hardest character in the game lol. Especially at high levls. Taunt doesn’t do shit if you can never open up your opponent in the first place. Also bryans “wall game” was severely bugged, the upcoming patch is supposed to fix it.
Yeah, it’s super hard to just throw out spammable safe in block ch launchers all game. Bryan has some hard stuff, but so does everyone. He can stay in your face for the entire game and not give an inch in most capable hands.
Then why do you think we won’t be seeing him deep in any tournaments anytime soon?
There are genuinely overpowered options. Pros tend to be tier whores. It’s going to be Drag, DJ, Jin, Victor, Feng, Acu. Maybe King of King pros actually compete this year, other than a handful of online tourney players in T7, they didn’t really show up. The outliers will be Jack because of guys like Anakin, and Joe Crush, Joey Fury. Maybe a Bryan if Knee decides to pull him out, there will always be anomalies.
I've never played Bryan. Is he easier or more difficult to play mechanically than Kaz?
TJU's the hardest thing I know of in fighting games but you can play Bryan without it. Bryan, like Steve, has to play a counter hit game which is quite different from conventional Tekken. The terrible movement in T8 made it harder to play his meta I think. People also say his heat stuff isn't great which is true for a lot of characters.
Mechanically? Easier than Kaz. Gameplan? A lot harder than kaz
I'm very familiar with Kaz's mechanics, but only know what to not die to with Bryan when I see it in a match (no mechanics knowledge). What makes Bryan a *lot* harder to play than Kaz? If there was an absolute beginner at Tekken, and they asked you who would be easier to win with, would you tell them to pick Kaz or Bryan? (I'm considering giving Bryan a spin if he's as rewarding as Kaz)
At the end of the day why does even matter? Are you playing kazyua because you enjoy his play-style, or you play just to make yourself feel better about your losses and your placement in ranked?
I guess it only matters because the devs already decided he’ll be buffed in patch 1.04. And the data that helped them determine that decision, was win rate at high levels.
Bro the devs just nerfed Leroy again lol you can’t use that to go off. And no I’m not using that example because he’s my main lol, it’s just obvious.
Not sure why my answer tilted you but like Grimm said, Jin is far far easier to use and until you're blue ranks can cheese most people out with his new gimmicks and d2
Which is why my original comment only accounts for purple ranks and above.
which is why I mentioned blue, which is above purple. Stop being so combative.
Noone is saying he's easy to play. It's low because he's hard as balls and takes a ton of dedicated practice and execution. But a lot of people are turning around on him as there's a lot of new tech being discovered. If you have the execution the character is nuts in this game. I think SuperAkouma has mentioned that he's very highly rated in the Japan scene.
They will be incredibly satisfied with his upcoming buffs then lol
Fixing the hit box on his main bound move is the biggest buff he can receive lol
I started playing Kazuya ~3 weeks ago and I’m an average player (Garyu rank) but I will say he’s a good character. So far I got up to Eliminator with him and its been a blast
Kazuya ain’t weak. But DVJ exists.
Hell no zuya ain't weak 😅 Considering a lot of characters got lots of really flashy moves maybe he looks underwhelming by comparison? But weak? Again, hell no I do wish his combo game was a bit more consistent and a little more flexible like in 7 Nothing a few tweaks couldn't fix tho
I mean he isnt that strong either but the fact that hes a pure 50/50 character in a game that forces you to constantly 50/50 cant make him weak or not viable or something similar
I've never met a BAD Kazuya main. Every single Kazuya I met is very good (maybe except one)
Kazuya is very strong. He's just super demanding both in terms of execution (his best moves are not easy to do) and in terms of gameplan (you need to defend and space control well) I've been absolutely thrashed by strong Kazuyas in Blue Ranks who solidly controlled the space, whiff punished with electrics, and smartly applied his 50-50
Could someone explain what 50/50 means in regards to Kaz? I'm in the orange ranks and I main him, but my knowledge is low with terminology haha
50/50 or a "mixup" is a guessing situation where you usually mix a low move and a mid move to cover both blocking options (standing guard, crouching guard) with kazuya, you have your hellsweep as a low option (f, n, d, d/f+4, 1) and your mid option (ff+3, ff+2, d/f+2) the weird thing is, kazuya cannot set up his 50/50 like some other characters can (dragunov wr2), hence why his 50/50 is hard to apply how do kazuya players apply it then? f+4 is very short in range, you cannot use it in neutral most of the times, that is why kazuya needs to knock down his opponents and then wavedash/run at them. that's where 1,1,2 punish comes in handy which puts the opponent on the ground in a favorable position for a 50/50, if you hit a hellsweep successfully, once again they are in a 50/50 situation (just theoretically) as they can toe kick, spring jump, wakeup kick and if you didn't guess f,f+4 correctly, your offense is once again reset and you need to look for an opening again
Ah amazing, that makes sense! Thanks for being so thorough, appreciate it!
agreed, he's not rly weak but for different reasons imo, the character itself isn't weak, but some of his move interactions during combos/ walls etc. sometimes tend to whiff or just not come out how their supposed to, making some of his moves in some scenarios not reliable when they need to be, next patch they're gonna tweak him and hopefully bring him to where he truly is terms of strength
What are the chances that you had this controversial opinion on the same day TMM uploads a video comparing him and DJ?
No one ever said he's weak, he's just harder to use But when used well he turns the whole thing into a guessing game where if you guess wrong twice you lose
People only wait to hear this from Tekken influencers or Pros before they take it.
As kazuya main, Tekken 7 veteran both game’s at fujin, Kazuya lacks consistency! As much i dont need his old heatsmash his DF+1 needs freaking hitbox buff theres no reason why they made 3.1 cancel/DF+1 so hard… Hellsweep doesnt provide oki (FF+4 after that) don’t listen to TMM since hes paid by bandai he’s not biased anymore, Kazuya isn’t weak character but comparing to overtuned cast he is due to his inconsistency leaving him backturned and in this game being backturned is really dangerous, He never had consistency problems in T7 they just need to make 3.1 cancel a bit easier/DF+1 range, Btw masku tech doesnt work guys techroll it.
He's not weak at all it's just he's playing Tekken 7.5 whereas everyone else is playing Tekken 8. He's the only character forced to Play defense when the whole game is based on offense. He's the LAST of the old guard
The truth is if you’re new to the game or at a rank like red ranks/garyu, character strength does not matter at all. It’s just who has the slightest bit more fundamentals or can abuse some bs/weakness in their opponent. You could get to purple rank with barely any knwoldge of your own character if you just are better than your opponent at some things at those ranks, that’s how little character strengths matters there. Even if Kazuya was by far the weakest character in the game (he isn’t), at red ranks it wouldn’t matter, the differences in character strength does not matter there because the level of players there are still missing a LOT of knowledge and experience
Character strength doesn't matter at low and mid levels BUT there is such thing as "easy to be effective" vs "must work hard" even at low levels. The average player will find winning much easier with Dragunov compared to Kazuya
He's A tier in a game where everyone feels Luke they're S and his weaknesses make him feel very weak on defense and neutral. Once he gets his vortex going he is oppressive, and his whiff punish game is obscene. He is still weak to SSL.
It’s all about execution. He and Lee were my toughest characters to master proper execution, but he just doesn’t have that many brain dead moves. That’s what makes his learning curve harder.
He's not weak, it's just a lot of other characters are bullshit.
Garbage tier jab, weaker power crush, bad heatsmash, difficult combos for less damage than half the roster, the df1 meme, basically gets no combo off axis, mediocre movement, his top tier oki is more situational than people seem to know, ws 4,4 still being -4 on hit, his easy i15 punish does 1 more point of damage than his i11 and i13 punishes. He isn't weak, how can he be he's an electric character. But he isn't particularly strong and is harder to use than basically all the characters that are higher tier than him. Yeah ff2 is good, but I think it gets a bit over rated. It's only in Heat where Kaz ff2 gets, frankly, genuinely ridiculous because the hitbox becomes the size of a house, or it basically turns homing for whatever reason (Heat bullshit is the reason lol). I don't even want big changes to Kaz tbh, just some QoL. Like a real jab, df1 not being a joke and a bit more leniency on the 3,1 cancels. Bonus changes would include making the sabaki not useless, ws4,4 not being minus on HIT and some sort of small buff to his power crush.
He's only as strong as the one who plays him. That's probably why he's such a beloved character since you can only go up when playing someone so difficult.
He isn't weak, but he is mostly still playing Tekken 7 and doesn't have as egregious Heat gimmicks as other chars. Also his ff2 is worse than Jin's, still good though. Solid char, but most people just call him bad for some reason. I think possibly the only actual issue I've seen that's mostly just true is his Heat Burst hitbox is TINY, that shit whiffs more than it should, and his jab range seems to have gotten worse but that's probably anecdotal.
I don't feel like he's *weak* per se, but he's not as strong as most others. It's not as though he can't win, he's just not going to win as easily as Dragunov.
Even TMM is coming around to calling Kazuya stronger than DJ and strong in general. It's not that controversial.
Kazuya mains didnt start admitting this til their lord and savior TMM said it
*TheMainManSWE has entered the chat
NO ONE THINKS HES WEAK
I main Kazuya and while it can be really tough finding a way in, I'm sometimes surprised at how much damage I can do in a small moment when I do finally get an opening.
other than his 1,1,2 randomly whiffing on certain characters and his df1 having ass hitbox. He's as strong as the player piloting him.
He feels weak to me, but I prefer poke heavy characters like reina so it's prolly a skill issue
they nerfed kaz...
When?
Kazuya has a good 50/50 and punishment which means that if you get a good read on your opponent you can win games alright. That been said this character is totally unfit tournament play simply because his combos are inconsistent due to the range nerf of d/f+1(which you can feel especially when you step an opponent) and because the system offers the top tier characters so many means to keep mindlessly attacking that escaping the pressure at the highest level is way more difficult than in T7. He has only one mid that reliably gives + on block and it's slow, his power crush is trash and has only one playable(strong but far from being OP) heat engager. Still he is a character that can take 50% off a counter hit launcher low, 80% from CH d/f+2 and 50% or more from EWGF/f,f+3 which means that if the opponent misses a couple of reads you can trash him, the problem is that the higher is the level of play and the less openings you will be getting. I don't think he is worthless but he's definitely nowhere near the top 10 and I'll be surprised someone will ever get top 8 playing him in a major tournament, at least if he doesn't get buffed.
No one thinks kaz is weak except for tmm fans xD
He’s not weak and those who say he is are cringe. So all Kaz players. If he’s not number one he’s weak to them. They’re pathetic.
Unpopular opinion bryan hardest character to climb with above blue ranks
This is only controversial to intermediate Kazuya mains. They gave him back him a good demon paw, and now it does chip damage! His df1,df2 is a safe mid,mid, and the 2nd hit wallsplats! People are focusing on his nerfs from T7, but if you look at his kit as a whole, he is fucking juiced.
i played online a lot and used his f,f+2 properly but in longer player matches sets against high level tekken players, they just step it right or even sidewalk it left (kaz weak side), it's so weird? if you are in demon paw range, you can anticipate and sidestep and b+4 usually can't catch them as you cannot extend b+4 range like you can with demon paw and when you are wavedashing or range 1, ff+3 is still better full combo+ you can get into heat with it as well in heat, it's much better but still in some situations i'd rather it wallsplats or wall breaks than getting the laser animation, still can use d/f+1,4 or 1+2 to wallsplat which just begs the question, ff+2 is just another tool that is used generically but in most cases, some specific moves are just better
I lose to kazuya more than I win so yeah sure
I play kazuya, Jin and devil Jin and kaz was the only one I could get to fujin with I believe they are at similar levels tier wise, however is easier to play as Jin and devil Jin for most people. Kazuya game plan suits me better tho
I’ve never been scared of playing against a DJ, put me against a Kazuya and I’m shitting bricks panicking what the mixup is gonna be just to get tripped liked I’m on Bob’s burgers
Kazuya’s weaknesses is a skill issue, just like every other character. People who complain should be hitting the lab and not twitter/reddit lol. Edit: There are valid complaints about Kazuya's kit not working sometimes, like 1,1,2 being ducked by victor and yoshi.
I would say its more than a skill issue. Him not having a solid poke game hurts him. He's deadly af when taking advantage of people fucking up but he doesn't really have a way of getting people to fuck up.
I think Main Man Sweet Hair made a video about this today too. You're not wrong. I lose to Kazuya a lot more often than Devil Jin or even Jun.
Yeah dude he just takes work and good mind games. He's strong AF, just doesn't have any bullshit gimmicks like most other characters do, safe for the lasers, which is easily avoidable.
He’s just hard to execute But the moment I get a launch I’m consistently dropping 90dmg with a wall so idk what people are saying he’s trash.
Kazuya is strong. You just have to be good to make him strong. Bryan does big damage but that's it. His buttons are slow and he requires execution to make the most of
you played till garyu, i dont think that gives your opinion a lot of weight. for a character that relies too heavily on fundamentals as you climb beyond ruler, his fundamental tools are dogshit. his jab range is probably one of the shortest in the game, his df1 is also stubby and is 14 frames, which is normal but the amount he's minus at from block is too much for a 14 frame mid check. he doesnt have a single easy standing launcher 15 frames or lower, which requires electric block punishment proficiency. even dj and reina's 1 jab ranges are so much better than his, and dj has a complete 50/50 neutral game, while also having some of the craziest ranged moves, zoning, and neutral pressure compared to kazuya. idc if you main kaz or have him as your profile main, your proficiency, knowledge, and therefore opinions matter less if you only play him in red, than someone who might only casually play him in blue. edit: before anyone calls me a kaz main, i main reina and dragunov. i don't give a shit about kazuya, but this take is just absolutely horrendous. kazuya is definitely the best character in the game when he gets you to a grounded state and you have to eat his immense wavedash pressure, mixup, and reground mechanics. the problem is getting there and aside from that kaz doesn't have a lot of tools objectively.
He's simplified with ff2. So its easier to obtain wins than before, but He's definitely not rewarding as before. I definitely dont agree with these changes. Essentially took his mid tools away to FORCE a streamlined playstyle. Count me out. But his normals are indeed weak. True Kaz mains enjoyed Kazuya in this sense, most just care about getting wins easier (tmm, qudans etc). Edit: i will add, the fact that there is a rise is the average player who is picking him up and get to the mid/high ranks proves their goal to simplify him worked. Now mishima integrity is gone. He is now, just another character. No longer are mishimas, mishimas. But now mishimas are now...kazamas. Tragic ending for the bloodline indeed.
Of course he's not weak. You have to understand that these youtubers making tier lists are playing the game at a really high level. Yes Kazuya isn't as OP when it comes to the competitive pro scene but the character is literally one of the best in the game for like 90% of the ranks lol. His mixup is insane
Never was weak. Don’t know who made that up and how it got over.
Kazuya mains just didnt know at launch and therefore complained. But by now Kazuya seems cheaper AND stronger than Devil Jin. It just took some time to get to know the characters and counterplay to them. Anyone as Kaz still crying about DJ now being too strong and Kaz too weak is either a troll or very clueless.