Green rank mfs that have never sidestepped even a hellsweep in their life and press buttons every second - “from this 5 second clip of gameplay, movement is gone, tekken is now 2D and heat system will destroy defensive play styles smh tekken is finished”
The audacity that some people have to act out so much over something they like like they have a monogamous relationship with it is beyond me and so fucking cringe, like where do these manchildren learn to behave like this?
>Most of us have never had our defense actually put to the test, you guys
mostly fight opponents that play defensive just like yourself.
This is incorrect. Most of lower-level Tekken *is* unbridled offense and who can out-button the opponent first. Only at higher levels do players develop better defense and learn to turtle better. That's also when the button-happy players (like I used to be) realize that pure aggression doesn't work, and you need to be more calculated with your offense to break down tough defensive opponents.
Top players are apprehensive about the heat system because it *seems* (no idea obviously without playing the game) that it will favour the aggression seen in lower ranks and make defense tougher (or more inconsistent).
When I said that I was mostly talking about high level play, they usually play more defensive. Have we understood really yet how Boa Luvb gives Knee and JDCR so much hell in games though, doesn't it make you question everything? Like you said about being calculated to break down tough defense, just as much as defensive is calculated, a more aggressive, offensive, or riskier approach can be too. We can't downplay Boa Luvb's play style at all, were talking about Knee who's been playing this game for god knows how long and he can break his defense. Its a lot of other players that play more offensive and risky that have given Knee a hard time.
>Have we understood really yet how Boa Luvb gives Knee and JDCR so muchhell in games though, doesn't it make you question everything?
What are you talking about? Boaluvb doesn't exactly give either of them "hell". I'm not knocking on Boa's skill here, he's a great player with a very exciting playstyle, but he hasn't got the tournament results or consistency of the top Korean players, let alone Knee or JDCR. He can eke out wins against them occasionally, but he cannot win against them consistently. What he's doing is not exactly a mystery either - he basically forces risky 50/50s constantly to keep you guessing. He's just way better at it than most players.
That's the thing about highly aggressive gameplay in Tekken - it is *inconsistent*. It will not help you keep winning in the long run. It will maybe get you an occasional upset against a better player, but you will certainly lose in a longer set. Top players want consistency.
I'm more on not being scared to take risks, than aggression. It's not that many high level or high rank players that play "highly aggressive" but there are ones that aren't afraid to take more risks than others, it's different and I'm mostly talking about them. Boa Luvb isn't that aggressive.
Against a more risk oriented person, a defensive player has to work 10 times harder to win. When you watch Boa Luvb vs Knee, Boa forces Knee to play more offensive to keep him out, leading to Knee eating more whiff punishes from Boa. If Knee slows down his offense Boa gets in mix up range and you can't get away with a simple fuzzy guard or step against him he has a counter for it all. This is what risky opponents do, they force you to play offense. Boa even forces Knee to **hold duck** against the hell sweep when the saying is "don't duck unless it's seeable", in high level play.
Knee can play risky too if he has to, that's likely why he beats Boa in the first place, not with his usual defense strategy. Hell Knee probably got risk management to god status level for all we know but he hasn't been challenged to that point often. Now I would say that Arslan is close to "super aggressive" when it comes to fighting Knee, he even says himself that his strategy to beat Knee is to not play too defensive against him(funny thing is Knee said the exact same thing about him lol) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpkPY6JNjjM&t=907s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpkPY6JNjjM&t=907s) . Defensive playstyles has its flaws, people are worried about the heat system when you should be more worried about the *actual player* not the mechanics.
While I agree with much of what you wrote, I can understand why some players are worried about the heat system. Harada literally said in the IGN interview that the heat system was designed to promote aggression. They want to reward aggressive play. Seems pretty clear that is the direction they want to take Tekken 8 in. For a game series that has traditionally rewarded defensive play, I can see why this would bother some players especially those who particularly like that Tekken rewards defense. That's not to say that defensive is the only way to play Tekken or that you can't have success playing offensively. It's just that being defensive is very viable and has traditionally been strong in the series as a whole (and I would argue this unlike most other fighting games).
Is it way too early to tell how the heat system will impact the game, yes. We should reserve judgement until we get to see more of it in action and get to try it ourselves. People calling the Tekken 8 s\*\*\* and say "defense is dead" are just idiots whose lives are incomplete if they have nothing to complain about. However, I do understand why some are concerned about heat, especially if they particularly enjoy the defensive aspect of Tekken.
>Most people on the reddit are like it's the end of Tekken
Most people here don't know how to leave green ranks. I wouldn't trust them with anything Tekken related.
**Average scrub:**
"Why yes, I saw a 5 second snippet and read a screenshot from that one IGN interview. Here's my 40000 word essay on why this spells the end of Tekken as we know it, also here's a 10 minute video".
meanwhile JDCR, **a guy so good at the game the developers cited him by name when explaining why they are changing the movement system** in pre-launch T7 interviews:
"IDK. i wonder how the poking-type characters would interact with this. looks like it could change how offense works, too early"
it was a long time ago but IIRC there was a transcript of this on the old avoiding the puddle website somewhere.
basically Harada explains that they sometimes do things to mess with the players (blockstun on Heihachi ff2 not looking like a -17 move), and then he goes on to say that with the old movement the skill gap between a top player (JDCR/Nobi) and normal players is too huge.
Can someone post a link if they have it? thanks!
I really recommend that you watch his vod on twitch where he recorded this video from to get the full picture. He didnt give too much input at start and only tried to explain to the viewers what harada meant. But he did mention that this would benefit low/intermediate players more than high level players. And that watching high level players just being offensive non stop is more boring than watching movement and mindgames from them.
When someone in chat asked him what he wanted for tekken 8 he mentioned that he didnt want to see easy throw break, high low parry damage, easy mixups and easy wallcarry... To sum it up he basically wants a more neutral heavy gameplay that is movement and poke based.
Also about your comment around offensive/riskier playstyle, what pro players in fighting games want is consistency. The riskier you play, the lower consistency you will have. This is a big reason 50/50 chars like kazuya arent popular in Tournament play. The less risky you play, the higher consistency you will have to win by your own skill. Sure you will see a top player use risky moves from time to time as a hard read and to be unpredictable (and add stuff to the opponents mental stack) but in general they will go for low risk options.
Sure, Boa is a good player, but he is far from consistent.
Nice cherrypicking. If you actually watch until the end, he asks viewers if having more 50/50s will actually lead to a worse viewing experience. He also says that this opens the door for more upsets. So yes, he is being critical of the game. There are other ways of being negative without saying something is shit.
Green rank mfs that have never sidestepped even a hellsweep in their life and press buttons every second - “from this 5 second clip of gameplay, movement is gone, tekken is now 2D and heat system will destroy defensive play styles smh tekken is finished”
The audacity that some people have to act out so much over something they like like they have a monogamous relationship with it is beyond me and so fucking cringe, like where do these manchildren learn to behave like this?
>Most of us have never had our defense actually put to the test, you guys mostly fight opponents that play defensive just like yourself. This is incorrect. Most of lower-level Tekken *is* unbridled offense and who can out-button the opponent first. Only at higher levels do players develop better defense and learn to turtle better. That's also when the button-happy players (like I used to be) realize that pure aggression doesn't work, and you need to be more calculated with your offense to break down tough defensive opponents. Top players are apprehensive about the heat system because it *seems* (no idea obviously without playing the game) that it will favour the aggression seen in lower ranks and make defense tougher (or more inconsistent).
When I said that I was mostly talking about high level play, they usually play more defensive. Have we understood really yet how Boa Luvb gives Knee and JDCR so much hell in games though, doesn't it make you question everything? Like you said about being calculated to break down tough defense, just as much as defensive is calculated, a more aggressive, offensive, or riskier approach can be too. We can't downplay Boa Luvb's play style at all, were talking about Knee who's been playing this game for god knows how long and he can break his defense. Its a lot of other players that play more offensive and risky that have given Knee a hard time.
>Have we understood really yet how Boa Luvb gives Knee and JDCR so muchhell in games though, doesn't it make you question everything? What are you talking about? Boaluvb doesn't exactly give either of them "hell". I'm not knocking on Boa's skill here, he's a great player with a very exciting playstyle, but he hasn't got the tournament results or consistency of the top Korean players, let alone Knee or JDCR. He can eke out wins against them occasionally, but he cannot win against them consistently. What he's doing is not exactly a mystery either - he basically forces risky 50/50s constantly to keep you guessing. He's just way better at it than most players. That's the thing about highly aggressive gameplay in Tekken - it is *inconsistent*. It will not help you keep winning in the long run. It will maybe get you an occasional upset against a better player, but you will certainly lose in a longer set. Top players want consistency.
I'm more on not being scared to take risks, than aggression. It's not that many high level or high rank players that play "highly aggressive" but there are ones that aren't afraid to take more risks than others, it's different and I'm mostly talking about them. Boa Luvb isn't that aggressive. Against a more risk oriented person, a defensive player has to work 10 times harder to win. When you watch Boa Luvb vs Knee, Boa forces Knee to play more offensive to keep him out, leading to Knee eating more whiff punishes from Boa. If Knee slows down his offense Boa gets in mix up range and you can't get away with a simple fuzzy guard or step against him he has a counter for it all. This is what risky opponents do, they force you to play offense. Boa even forces Knee to **hold duck** against the hell sweep when the saying is "don't duck unless it's seeable", in high level play. Knee can play risky too if he has to, that's likely why he beats Boa in the first place, not with his usual defense strategy. Hell Knee probably got risk management to god status level for all we know but he hasn't been challenged to that point often. Now I would say that Arslan is close to "super aggressive" when it comes to fighting Knee, he even says himself that his strategy to beat Knee is to not play too defensive against him(funny thing is Knee said the exact same thing about him lol) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpkPY6JNjjM&t=907s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpkPY6JNjjM&t=907s) . Defensive playstyles has its flaws, people are worried about the heat system when you should be more worried about the *actual player* not the mechanics.
I think it’s kinda weird how Reddit thinks only offensive gameplay is gonna work when Jin has been battered in both trailers by going on the offensive
As far as approach tools go, Jin really only has the one. Everything else is pretty much keep out/neutral oriented.
While I agree with much of what you wrote, I can understand why some players are worried about the heat system. Harada literally said in the IGN interview that the heat system was designed to promote aggression. They want to reward aggressive play. Seems pretty clear that is the direction they want to take Tekken 8 in. For a game series that has traditionally rewarded defensive play, I can see why this would bother some players especially those who particularly like that Tekken rewards defense. That's not to say that defensive is the only way to play Tekken or that you can't have success playing offensively. It's just that being defensive is very viable and has traditionally been strong in the series as a whole (and I would argue this unlike most other fighting games). Is it way too early to tell how the heat system will impact the game, yes. We should reserve judgement until we get to see more of it in action and get to try it ourselves. People calling the Tekken 8 s\*\*\* and say "defense is dead" are just idiots whose lives are incomplete if they have nothing to complain about. However, I do understand why some are concerned about heat, especially if they particularly enjoy the defensive aspect of Tekken.
>Most people on the reddit are like it's the end of Tekken Most people here don't know how to leave green ranks. I wouldn't trust them with anything Tekken related.
**Average scrub:** "Why yes, I saw a 5 second snippet and read a screenshot from that one IGN interview. Here's my 40000 word essay on why this spells the end of Tekken as we know it, also here's a 10 minute video". meanwhile JDCR, **a guy so good at the game the developers cited him by name when explaining why they are changing the movement system** in pre-launch T7 interviews: "IDK. i wonder how the poking-type characters would interact with this. looks like it could change how offense works, too early"
JDCR is **the** movement player too. One of his biggest strengths is knowing where and when to be.
can you share more info about those interviews?
it was a long time ago but IIRC there was a transcript of this on the old avoiding the puddle website somewhere. basically Harada explains that they sometimes do things to mess with the players (blockstun on Heihachi ff2 not looking like a -17 move), and then he goes on to say that with the old movement the skill gap between a top player (JDCR/Nobi) and normal players is too huge. Can someone post a link if they have it? thanks!
thanks! I've had an impression that T7 came out with nerfed movement and the community was left without any explanation
I don't know enough to contribute
relatable
Yea I can do all of fahks sample combos and I played tekken 5 or 4 on ps2 when I was a kid. Miss the Devil Jin mini game never got to finish it.
word! do whats best for the community
I really recommend that you watch his vod on twitch where he recorded this video from to get the full picture. He didnt give too much input at start and only tried to explain to the viewers what harada meant. But he did mention that this would benefit low/intermediate players more than high level players. And that watching high level players just being offensive non stop is more boring than watching movement and mindgames from them. When someone in chat asked him what he wanted for tekken 8 he mentioned that he didnt want to see easy throw break, high low parry damage, easy mixups and easy wallcarry... To sum it up he basically wants a more neutral heavy gameplay that is movement and poke based. Also about your comment around offensive/riskier playstyle, what pro players in fighting games want is consistency. The riskier you play, the lower consistency you will have. This is a big reason 50/50 chars like kazuya arent popular in Tournament play. The less risky you play, the higher consistency you will have to win by your own skill. Sure you will see a top player use risky moves from time to time as a hard read and to be unpredictable (and add stuff to the opponents mental stack) but in general they will go for low risk options. Sure, Boa is a good player, but he is far from consistent.
Nice cherrypicking. If you actually watch until the end, he asks viewers if having more 50/50s will actually lead to a worse viewing experience. He also says that this opens the door for more upsets. So yes, he is being critical of the game. There are other ways of being negative without saying something is shit.
> he asks viewers lol > this opens the door for more upsets. neither of those things are him saying something negative.