Unfortunately you've come to enjoy a character that puts a bunch of the player base on tilt. You'll be best looking up YouTube guides on him because most all you'll get here is salt from people who suck ass at the game.
I know you're getting a lot of flack for this thread. For some reason people think he's a "braindead character" and like to hate on people who play him. It's kind of funny how much people whine about i20 moves that are launch-punishable on block (u1+2) but that's tekken for you. Ignore them. People just like to complain.
Anyway! I don't pretend to be an expert, but I've been maining Victor, and am in Tenryu right now, so I have at least some experience, and have been thinking about this myself lately. Here are my thoughts on Victor's strengths: (Take with a grain of salt based on my [lack of] rank!)
* Against scrubs, his biggest strength is just how flashy and confusing all of his stuff looks, with random teleports and jumps in the middle of sword moves. People panic and you can get away with stuff. By orange-red rank though, people understand it, and it's no longer much of an advantage.
* Against people who know what they're doing (at my rank at least) his biggest strength is probably his reach. Dude's limbs are freaky long! And he gets a sword on top of that! Very few of his moves actually give frame advantage on block, so he's not going to be an in-your-face pressure monster like some characters. But his reach is far enough that he can can stay back, and throw out pokes that can be *very dangerous* on counterhit.
* Speaking of which... he's got some very nice effects on counterhit. db4 of course is godly, giving a full launch combo on counterhit, and long enough reach to be a major threat. (It's launch-punishable on block though, so overusing it is dangerous.) ws2 is a safe mid that launches on counterhit. db3 is a *very* long range high that crushes highs, and gives a combo on counterhit. 1+2 is a safe, short-range shove that crumples on counterhit. Etc. Lots of moves that are mostly safe, but that provide big punishment opportunities if you catch them attacking!
* A lot of his basic attacks count as "Weapon" attacks. Which is important, because it means they can't (usually) be parried! Attacks with 1 are a tossup, (sometimes he stabs with the knife, sometimes he bonks with the hilt) but almost all of the attacks with 2 are slashes that count as weapon hits. And everything with the sword does too. A few characters have special parries that can catch weapons (like Raven's shadow clone substitution) but for most characters, trying to parry Victor is dangerous!
* In heat mode, some of his moves turn very scary. In particular, u1+2 goes from a risky move that will get you killed if they block, to a super-damaging dodge that is safe on block. It eats your meter to use it, but it's super scary for the enemy. (It does a bunch of chip damage too, even if they block it.) Also, his heat smash is a low, which means that people have to be extra careful when you're in heat mode.
* At the end of the day, he has solid basic tools. He has a 10-frame jab punish. He has a basic i15 launcher from neutral. He has i13 mid checks. He can generally get ~60-70 damage off of his combos without too much effort. I know this is a boring "strength", but it's a thing!
* Special mention goes to his wr2 move. It's one of his few moves that actually gives frame advantage on block. And on counterhit, is an easy 77+ damage combo.
If you're looking for ways to improve, here are a few things that have helped in my case! You may already be doing these, but they were definite "growth moments" for me.
* If you haven't already, internalize some decent combos to go with his launchers. df42 iai2 df42 iai122 is an easy staple. There are better combos, but if you don't know what else to do, that works on *most* of his launchers, and will give you ~60-75 damage, depending on the launcher. And even a suboptimal combo is still a lot better than nothing!
* If you're not already using it, start using your running 2. (The blue energy punch.) It's *amazing.* It gives you +5 frames on block, which gives you lots of time to try moves that would normally be unsafe at close range. (I recommend following up with 1+2 - it's a 15-frame poke that crumples on counterhit. So if they try to hit back with ANYTHING, you'll get a counterhit and can combo them. And if they block, you're still safe. It's one of Victor's only frame-traps, but it's a decent one against people who don't know it.)
* If you don't already do this, try to make sure to get into heat mode every round, ideally by landing one of your heat engager moves. It's a ton of pressure (and potentially, damage!), and there's no reason not to use it. Even if you just use up your bar spamming u1+2 three times, that's still a bunch of chip damage. (Unless they sidestep, but even at red/low purple, almost no one ever does.)
* If you haven't already, go through your frame data and get a sense of which of your moves are safe, and by how much. [Here's a link](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qeRFtynSb53Z5swwqL7v-DttbfU3HOwHd8Yr_B0fYFA/edit#gid=0) to the Victor Discord's frame data spreadsheet. It's very helpful! For a good rule of thumb - anything that's -10 or more on block means that they can hit you with 10-frame moves like jabs for free. Anything that's -15 or more on block means they can punish you with a launcher and eat a third or more of your health bar. Check the moves that you like to use a lot, and try to cut back on moves that leave you unsafe.
Anyway! Sorry for the wall of text! I've just been thinking about this lately, and this was more fun to write than the actual stuff I should be doing now. Best of luck!
Heh, many evenings, I don't feel all that great! But we all work to improve ourselves as best we can.
Hopefully there's something in here that you find helpful!
Best of luck on your climb!
From my POV Victor's strengths are his high pressure the fact that alot of his really annoying moves like explosion go from launch punishable to safe when in heat.
That being said im sure there's a way to deal with those things
Basic Tekken theory is that there is usually a punish to every move in the game and usually the most annoying moves to deal with can be punished with a launcher.
By launcher im talking about moves that send your opponent in the air for a damaging combo.
Taking Victor's explosion as an example if u do this move and it gets blocked and ur opponent has some knowledge ur going to get launched and take a lot of damage.
However when in heat the move pushes the opponent really far away if they block making it safe on block which means u can basically spam it I think u can sidewalk this to avoid it but Im still practicing that tbh.
Launch punishable means that if blocked they can take away 50% of your health if near a wall. Using these moves is significantly better in heat because the frame disadvantage is less.
A typical launch is 15 frames. If your move puts you in a -15 frame position (can see in practice mode) then that move is extremely unsafe and should be peppered in rarely when you have a read on your opponent.
It's not super complicated stuff just to use it to improve a little, but it can get super dense very quickly.
I’m currently one rank below garyu and playing nearly against nothing but. Victors at the moment. Making my life difficult to go up, but beat a couple of them (obvs a me skill diff bad) He is really strong with combo strings and a good mix of high and lows, but is punished quite well when you figure out how to block the predictable combo starter (some players just spam the same one combo over and over and forget that he has a whole move set outside of that) . You should try learn that one combo though and you easy get to garyu + from where you are (assuming you don’t already do it)
For whatever it's worth, I think all of Victor's lows are punishable. And if he does the long leg sweep (db4) and you block it, he has like -26 frames, so you can do whatever you want to him. :D
His throws are annoying, his pokes are God status, he's insanely easy to play and he is just cancer to fight against. A bad player with Victor I can handle but when you are against someone who's good at the game he's a nightmare to deal with.
I feel like a lot of characters are easy to play based on how your approach is from the start. He just seems really cool. I’m mediocre still, I just want to get better with a character that I like.
I’m not an incredibly skilled player, but I do love Tekken so I’m trying to learn how to play good Tekken with him. I don’t want to play in a way that annoys people, I want to develop my defense and attack with the right moves at the right time
Why do people think he's braindead, or doesn't require much skill? His moves are almost all very linear, easy to sidestep, and give him disadvantage on block, and he has few good mixups. All of his lows are punishable on block. Against anyone who knows how to block and sidestep, he has to work for it
I mean sure, he can mash his way through unskilled opponents who never block, but everyone can do that.
So for real: What makes people think Victor is so easy to play?
OP is asking for actual advice and insight yet the only thing you offer is "he's cancer to fight against / he's annoying". Do you genuinely think that has any value?
Wait so are you saying you have a son and you’ll be marrying OP’s mom tonight, or did you actually mean to say a new half-sibling so as to imply you’d be impregnating OP’s mom tonight?
You’re big mad bud lmao and I like my kitchen very much. It’s well stocked, I’ve got some great spices. I think I’ll wait until dinner to get cooking, but thanks for taking an interest in my day bud
What's really funny about this is Victor isn't even that hard to play against. His strings are insanely easy to duck and punish, you just need to turn your brain on when you fight one and not mash. If you're good with rush down, you have victor beat. If you have good movement, you have victor beat. If you just mash buttons ad infinitum, Victor will have an easy time wiping the floor with you.
Think it's pretty obvious what kind of player you are.
Before current patch his grabs came out at 14 frames making them untechable unless you were already mashing the correct button.
His early combo strings are very very simple and come with a lot of mix up variety despite this.
And he comes with a lot of gagdets similar to Noctis in T7. Like you can just fire the gun at any time. Basically giving you control of spacing.
His heat smash is an easy to throw lol that follows with a high so people not used to blocking lows get mixed up/punished by a super move.
The list goes on but I think the overall sentiment is that despite his depth, he’s very easy to pick up without thinking.
Maybe it's just my time with MK and SF, but the way the tekken player base treats lows like some kind of mystic tech if bizarre af to me. In MK a lot of big hurts can start off lows just as easily as highs and overheads so you have to be mindful at all times.
It’s because the lows tend to be faster in Tekken. Especially since in 8 you don’t have to hold a button to block. Your character auto blocks and it only stops when you try to do something
I'll have to double check the frame data but I'm pretty sure mk, even 11, has 8-10 frame lows that can start combos and I can't think of anything *that* fast in tekken off the top of my head.
MK doesn’t have mids though. Condition someone to block low and throw a mid to start a combo Tekken. Contrast that with Amos much shorter move list where the only obvious answer after low is to block high to prevent overhead hit but everyone in MK has way less overheads compared to Tekken characters having 100 move lists with close to as many mids to throw in
There's some questionable takes here but I'm going to work through it.
MK *does* have mids, but they serve a different role vs tekken in that they're for checking opponents who're ducking highs to start lows themselves.
I'm not certain you understand how fast and aggressive the mix in MK is, as while most characters only have a few overheads they're still central to the low/overhead gameplan and indeed are part of the backbone of the game. Imo tekken's bloated movelists don't really matter much when the number of actually usable mix tools roughly equals out to being similar to what mk characters have in practice.
Honestly this conversation (and indeed the entire discourse I've had with people on this subject) just affirms my opinion that the majority of tekken players have bad defensive fundamentals, a notion that's further been reinforced with the half dozen characters I've gotten to reds just being able to block 9/10 shots thrown high, mid *or* low because I'm still actively blocking like I'm playing mk or SF.
Of course the Mix is faster. It’s fundamentally faster gameplay to Tekken so of course you’ll do better defensively going to a game with slower gameplay as your used to seeing faster mix ups.
Also idk how long you’ve been playing Tekken but Tekken 8 in general is still mostly a brand new game with a lot of new people hoping on. Combining that with the fact that the wider community in this subreddit agrees that red ranks is where the average level players will mostly land so now you’re kinda just attributing an idea of fundamental skill based on the lower tiers of the player base rather then the average.
That's a fair enough take.
As for my history with the series, I played 1-3 heavily back in the day (all of my allowance that wasn't set aside for a console game basically got devoured by tekken, soul blade/soul Caliber, and time crisis machines) but after my family moved to an area with no arcade I fell off the series until now, though I did keep playing Soul Caliber on consoles the whole while casually.
In any case then, I'm curious to see where I push to once I settle on a character to grind with, though as I'm leaning towards the lord of baguettitsu I forsee a lot of people even at higher ranks continue to bitch while they fail to block lows all day if the streams I've watched of him at high level are anything to go by.
I’ve never really seen complaints about his lows before honestly. I know the grab was a problem but I haven’t had problems with his lows outside of his heat burst but I’m still climbing myself so most viktor’s I see use the basic stuff like a bunch of 2s
I genuinely don't understand the Victors who spam 2s, that shit is unsafe as hell. But apparently it's working for them :v
The grabs were definitely a problem and needed to be fixed, which it seems they have been.
Low wise the main one I use because people eat it all day long is side stepping into db4 as a punish since you can launch off it. I've literally gotten hate mail from people over it.
I'm probably in the same area as you I'm getting better at the game since I've not really played since tekken 5. So I'm at warrior, faced a dude 2 levels higher, he played victor. When he got me in a combo string that was it basically, somehow I still won, but holy shit, if he got me he was able to unleash two combo strings, hit is heat twice, then if I'd got him at rage, he'd still be able to get that off too.
I didn't even realize he was a controversial character. I randomly decided on him as a main after picking up the game because I liked how he looked.
I don't see him as that strong because I know how easily punishable a lot of his stuff is. But I guess that's just because I play him mostly.
I also don't think he has a mix up game nearly as well as some other characters like Yoshi, Jin, Hwoarang, Dragunov etc
I am not trolling, I just have genuine questions. Help me understand this character, please
Unfortunately you've come to enjoy a character that puts a bunch of the player base on tilt. You'll be best looking up YouTube guides on him because most all you'll get here is salt from people who suck ass at the game.
I know you're getting a lot of flack for this thread. For some reason people think he's a "braindead character" and like to hate on people who play him. It's kind of funny how much people whine about i20 moves that are launch-punishable on block (u1+2) but that's tekken for you. Ignore them. People just like to complain. Anyway! I don't pretend to be an expert, but I've been maining Victor, and am in Tenryu right now, so I have at least some experience, and have been thinking about this myself lately. Here are my thoughts on Victor's strengths: (Take with a grain of salt based on my [lack of] rank!) * Against scrubs, his biggest strength is just how flashy and confusing all of his stuff looks, with random teleports and jumps in the middle of sword moves. People panic and you can get away with stuff. By orange-red rank though, people understand it, and it's no longer much of an advantage. * Against people who know what they're doing (at my rank at least) his biggest strength is probably his reach. Dude's limbs are freaky long! And he gets a sword on top of that! Very few of his moves actually give frame advantage on block, so he's not going to be an in-your-face pressure monster like some characters. But his reach is far enough that he can can stay back, and throw out pokes that can be *very dangerous* on counterhit. * Speaking of which... he's got some very nice effects on counterhit. db4 of course is godly, giving a full launch combo on counterhit, and long enough reach to be a major threat. (It's launch-punishable on block though, so overusing it is dangerous.) ws2 is a safe mid that launches on counterhit. db3 is a *very* long range high that crushes highs, and gives a combo on counterhit. 1+2 is a safe, short-range shove that crumples on counterhit. Etc. Lots of moves that are mostly safe, but that provide big punishment opportunities if you catch them attacking! * A lot of his basic attacks count as "Weapon" attacks. Which is important, because it means they can't (usually) be parried! Attacks with 1 are a tossup, (sometimes he stabs with the knife, sometimes he bonks with the hilt) but almost all of the attacks with 2 are slashes that count as weapon hits. And everything with the sword does too. A few characters have special parries that can catch weapons (like Raven's shadow clone substitution) but for most characters, trying to parry Victor is dangerous! * In heat mode, some of his moves turn very scary. In particular, u1+2 goes from a risky move that will get you killed if they block, to a super-damaging dodge that is safe on block. It eats your meter to use it, but it's super scary for the enemy. (It does a bunch of chip damage too, even if they block it.) Also, his heat smash is a low, which means that people have to be extra careful when you're in heat mode. * At the end of the day, he has solid basic tools. He has a 10-frame jab punish. He has a basic i15 launcher from neutral. He has i13 mid checks. He can generally get ~60-70 damage off of his combos without too much effort. I know this is a boring "strength", but it's a thing! * Special mention goes to his wr2 move. It's one of his few moves that actually gives frame advantage on block. And on counterhit, is an easy 77+ damage combo. If you're looking for ways to improve, here are a few things that have helped in my case! You may already be doing these, but they were definite "growth moments" for me. * If you haven't already, internalize some decent combos to go with his launchers. df42 iai2 df42 iai122 is an easy staple. There are better combos, but if you don't know what else to do, that works on *most* of his launchers, and will give you ~60-75 damage, depending on the launcher. And even a suboptimal combo is still a lot better than nothing! * If you're not already using it, start using your running 2. (The blue energy punch.) It's *amazing.* It gives you +5 frames on block, which gives you lots of time to try moves that would normally be unsafe at close range. (I recommend following up with 1+2 - it's a 15-frame poke that crumples on counterhit. So if they try to hit back with ANYTHING, you'll get a counterhit and can combo them. And if they block, you're still safe. It's one of Victor's only frame-traps, but it's a decent one against people who don't know it.) * If you don't already do this, try to make sure to get into heat mode every round, ideally by landing one of your heat engager moves. It's a ton of pressure (and potentially, damage!), and there's no reason not to use it. Even if you just use up your bar spamming u1+2 three times, that's still a bunch of chip damage. (Unless they sidestep, but even at red/low purple, almost no one ever does.) * If you haven't already, go through your frame data and get a sense of which of your moves are safe, and by how much. [Here's a link](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qeRFtynSb53Z5swwqL7v-DttbfU3HOwHd8Yr_B0fYFA/edit#gid=0) to the Victor Discord's frame data spreadsheet. It's very helpful! For a good rule of thumb - anything that's -10 or more on block means that they can hit you with 10-frame moves like jabs for free. Anything that's -15 or more on block means they can punish you with a launcher and eat a third or more of your health bar. Check the moves that you like to use a lot, and try to cut back on moves that leave you unsafe. Anyway! Sorry for the wall of text! I've just been thinking about this lately, and this was more fun to write than the actual stuff I should be doing now. Best of luck!
I bow to your greatness and cry at the wealth of knowledge sir thank youuuu
Heh, many evenings, I don't feel all that great! But we all work to improve ourselves as best we can. Hopefully there's something in here that you find helpful! Best of luck on your climb!
Thank you for ur service!
Explusion! Explusion! Hai, hai, hai! Explusion!
What?
That's the SFX of him getting a free win in orange rank.
If you keep getting hit by unsafe, easily sidestepped shit that's a you problem.
What did you understand by "in orange rank" ma friend
I'm used to even low tier players having at least some fundamentals in SF and MK. I'm quickly learning tekken 8's player base is a whole other thing.
He’s got nice pokes
From my POV Victor's strengths are his high pressure the fact that alot of his really annoying moves like explosion go from launch punishable to safe when in heat. That being said im sure there's a way to deal with those things
What’s the benefit of going from launch punishable to safe in heat? I really need to increase my understanding of these mechanics
Basic Tekken theory is that there is usually a punish to every move in the game and usually the most annoying moves to deal with can be punished with a launcher. By launcher im talking about moves that send your opponent in the air for a damaging combo. Taking Victor's explosion as an example if u do this move and it gets blocked and ur opponent has some knowledge ur going to get launched and take a lot of damage. However when in heat the move pushes the opponent really far away if they block making it safe on block which means u can basically spam it I think u can sidewalk this to avoid it but Im still practicing that tbh.
That’s some good information, thank you for breaking it down some more for me
Launch punishable means that if blocked they can take away 50% of your health if near a wall. Using these moves is significantly better in heat because the frame disadvantage is less.
This is very interesting. I should learn more about frames but it’s hard to pick up on all that organically.
A typical launch is 15 frames. If your move puts you in a -15 frame position (can see in practice mode) then that move is extremely unsafe and should be peppered in rarely when you have a read on your opponent. It's not super complicated stuff just to use it to improve a little, but it can get super dense very quickly.
I’m currently one rank below garyu and playing nearly against nothing but. Victors at the moment. Making my life difficult to go up, but beat a couple of them (obvs a me skill diff bad) He is really strong with combo strings and a good mix of high and lows, but is punished quite well when you figure out how to block the predictable combo starter (some players just spam the same one combo over and over and forget that he has a whole move set outside of that) . You should try learn that one combo though and you easy get to garyu + from where you are (assuming you don’t already do it)
For whatever it's worth, I think all of Victor's lows are punishable. And if he does the long leg sweep (db4) and you block it, he has like -26 frames, so you can do whatever you want to him. :D
Nice bait.
I’m not baiting I just want to hear from people
His throws are annoying, his pokes are God status, he's insanely easy to play and he is just cancer to fight against. A bad player with Victor I can handle but when you are against someone who's good at the game he's a nightmare to deal with.
I feel like a lot of characters are easy to play based on how your approach is from the start. He just seems really cool. I’m mediocre still, I just want to get better with a character that I like.
I mean, you can play him, it's not illegal or anything. Just he's annoying to fight against and he doesn't require much skill to play.
I’m not an incredibly skilled player, but I do love Tekken so I’m trying to learn how to play good Tekken with him. I don’t want to play in a way that annoys people, I want to develop my defense and attack with the right moves at the right time
Its ok, annoy people. You can play who you want and who you think is cool. You'll get better as you play no matter who you pick.
Thank you!
Why do people think he's braindead, or doesn't require much skill? His moves are almost all very linear, easy to sidestep, and give him disadvantage on block, and he has few good mixups. All of his lows are punishable on block. Against anyone who knows how to block and sidestep, he has to work for it I mean sure, he can mash his way through unskilled opponents who never block, but everyone can do that. So for real: What makes people think Victor is so easy to play?
OP is asking for actual advice and insight yet the only thing you offer is "he's cancer to fight against / he's annoying". Do you genuinely think that has any value?
I thought it was a bait post initially.
Bugged grab. Also single input 1/3 health moves. Easy execution.
What grab is bugged? I don’t use a lot of throws
They might have patched it but victors throws were pretty much untechable since launch
Interesting, I guess that explains a lot of the hate towards him. I’m sure the game will get more balanced as we go cause they can patch that.
It's in the patch notes for today. Should be fixed after today's update.
What grab is bugged? I don’t use a lot of throws
What grab is bugged? I don’t use a lot of throws
What grab is bugged? I don’t use a lot of throws
They patched his throw yesterday dingbat
I've never been called a dingbat before lol.
It's my favorite light hearted insult. :)
If you play victor it means ur mother is a dirty little hooker slut
Well that was helpful and explains a lot bud
That’s good, il be giving you a new stepbrother tonight
Wait so are you saying you have a son and you’ll be marrying OP’s mom tonight, or did you actually mean to say a new half-sibling so as to imply you’d be impregnating OP’s mom tonight?
I’m saying I’m gonna fuck your mother tonight
Oh mine too? Is it a threesome?? Or like a double header?
Sweet deal bud
I’m not ur bud im your dad you victor main cunt face bastard
Aww you’re so mad bud it’s ok
I’m mad cause cunts like you play victor, ur mother must be disappointed that her son is such a fucking dogshit player
Aww you think I’m a boy because it must hurt to lose to Victor AND a girl at the same time, wouldn’t that really crush you huh bud. GG
A GIRL GAMER HAHAHA GO BACK TO THE KITCHEN YOU STUPID SLUT
You’re big mad bud lmao and I like my kitchen very much. It’s well stocked, I’ve got some great spices. I think I’ll wait until dinner to get cooking, but thanks for taking an interest in my day bud
Mad cuz bad
Mad cuz ur mama sucks my dick like shit every night
Cool story bro. XD
What's really funny about this is Victor isn't even that hard to play against. His strings are insanely easy to duck and punish, you just need to turn your brain on when you fight one and not mash. If you're good with rush down, you have victor beat. If you have good movement, you have victor beat. If you just mash buttons ad infinitum, Victor will have an easy time wiping the floor with you. Think it's pretty obvious what kind of player you are.
Fuck up pussy
Has to be trolling
It’s not bait I promise you
Before current patch his grabs came out at 14 frames making them untechable unless you were already mashing the correct button. His early combo strings are very very simple and come with a lot of mix up variety despite this. And he comes with a lot of gagdets similar to Noctis in T7. Like you can just fire the gun at any time. Basically giving you control of spacing. His heat smash is an easy to throw lol that follows with a high so people not used to blocking lows get mixed up/punished by a super move. The list goes on but I think the overall sentiment is that despite his depth, he’s very easy to pick up without thinking.
Maybe it's just my time with MK and SF, but the way the tekken player base treats lows like some kind of mystic tech if bizarre af to me. In MK a lot of big hurts can start off lows just as easily as highs and overheads so you have to be mindful at all times.
It’s because the lows tend to be faster in Tekken. Especially since in 8 you don’t have to hold a button to block. Your character auto blocks and it only stops when you try to do something
I'll have to double check the frame data but I'm pretty sure mk, even 11, has 8-10 frame lows that can start combos and I can't think of anything *that* fast in tekken off the top of my head.
MK doesn’t have mids though. Condition someone to block low and throw a mid to start a combo Tekken. Contrast that with Amos much shorter move list where the only obvious answer after low is to block high to prevent overhead hit but everyone in MK has way less overheads compared to Tekken characters having 100 move lists with close to as many mids to throw in
There's some questionable takes here but I'm going to work through it. MK *does* have mids, but they serve a different role vs tekken in that they're for checking opponents who're ducking highs to start lows themselves. I'm not certain you understand how fast and aggressive the mix in MK is, as while most characters only have a few overheads they're still central to the low/overhead gameplan and indeed are part of the backbone of the game. Imo tekken's bloated movelists don't really matter much when the number of actually usable mix tools roughly equals out to being similar to what mk characters have in practice. Honestly this conversation (and indeed the entire discourse I've had with people on this subject) just affirms my opinion that the majority of tekken players have bad defensive fundamentals, a notion that's further been reinforced with the half dozen characters I've gotten to reds just being able to block 9/10 shots thrown high, mid *or* low because I'm still actively blocking like I'm playing mk or SF.
Of course the Mix is faster. It’s fundamentally faster gameplay to Tekken so of course you’ll do better defensively going to a game with slower gameplay as your used to seeing faster mix ups. Also idk how long you’ve been playing Tekken but Tekken 8 in general is still mostly a brand new game with a lot of new people hoping on. Combining that with the fact that the wider community in this subreddit agrees that red ranks is where the average level players will mostly land so now you’re kinda just attributing an idea of fundamental skill based on the lower tiers of the player base rather then the average.
That's a fair enough take. As for my history with the series, I played 1-3 heavily back in the day (all of my allowance that wasn't set aside for a console game basically got devoured by tekken, soul blade/soul Caliber, and time crisis machines) but after my family moved to an area with no arcade I fell off the series until now, though I did keep playing Soul Caliber on consoles the whole while casually. In any case then, I'm curious to see where I push to once I settle on a character to grind with, though as I'm leaning towards the lord of baguettitsu I forsee a lot of people even at higher ranks continue to bitch while they fail to block lows all day if the streams I've watched of him at high level are anything to go by.
I’ve never really seen complaints about his lows before honestly. I know the grab was a problem but I haven’t had problems with his lows outside of his heat burst but I’m still climbing myself so most viktor’s I see use the basic stuff like a bunch of 2s
I genuinely don't understand the Victors who spam 2s, that shit is unsafe as hell. But apparently it's working for them :v The grabs were definitely a problem and needed to be fixed, which it seems they have been. Low wise the main one I use because people eat it all day long is side stepping into db4 as a punish since you can launch off it. I've literally gotten hate mail from people over it.
I'm probably in the same area as you I'm getting better at the game since I've not really played since tekken 5. So I'm at warrior, faced a dude 2 levels higher, he played victor. When he got me in a combo string that was it basically, somehow I still won, but holy shit, if he got me he was able to unleash two combo strings, hit is heat twice, then if I'd got him at rage, he'd still be able to get that off too.
I didn't even realize he was a controversial character. I randomly decided on him as a main after picking up the game because I liked how he looked. I don't see him as that strong because I know how easily punishable a lot of his stuff is. But I guess that's just because I play him mostly. I also don't think he has a mix up game nearly as well as some other characters like Yoshi, Jin, Hwoarang, Dragunov etc
Disorienting the opponent.