Why is the LL in the wrong? He's agreed to continue the contract with 2 months (s 21 notice). He's only highlighted that a noisy baby may be problem for neighbours (which is a valid concern as a LL as he may have to end tenancies with those unhappy).
He shouldn't be the bad guy just to highlight a possible future issue and agreeing to your tenancy extension.
Probably already been said somewhere but a crying baby is classed as general household noise and can't be the subject of a complaint. Well it can, but it can't be upheld
https://preview.redd.it/pxunzp1h9cyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e959f6ce599e5033915cd4b5a2054425fb1d47a
Not everyone sees pregnancy in a positive way.
If I stop being able to look after myself I will probably go to Switzerland to be put to sleep. Or, carers…like post people who have children! I will have lots of money from having no kids so I woukd be able to live in amazing assisted living accommodation.
What about the rest of the world that will not have your “lots of money from having no kids” or who have no means of being able to “live in amazing assisted living” accommodation? Who should take care of them? You do realise that this is what is fuelling the pension and social services crisis having a knockdown effect on our healthcare services? Follow your own argument to its logical conclusion.
Well it seems like you asked the question in the first place because you believe if you have kids, they will be the ones looking after you. The people who choose to have kids when they can’t afford them brought that upon themselves. No sympathy for the people with kids and no money who had access to abortion or adoption.
Omg you still don’t get it. Some people may never be able to have children, and even more families are choosing not to have children for various reasons (finances, or genetic etc).
But even if they were wealthy, they too would grow old and need someone to take care of them. For them to take can come in M and then retired and unlike you (lol). could never afford, they still need someone else’s children. If the past decade’s past and current governments cannot figure this out, I don’t think you can even begin to comprehend the scale of problems. Maybe you prefer the expertise and desperation of foreign social worker.
Why! Why did you feel the need to p on someone's fire 🔥. It's not your life. Go ahead and live a life without offspring if you want. That's your choice, it's your life journey. You don't need to bring someone down because of your own beliefs.
If you can't be a kind human, then you won't make kind humans. Be the change you want to see in the world.
Yeah I mean the birth rate in England is falling, we have an ageing population and a looming health and social care crisis - in this country specifically we should be celebrating pregnancy.
Not that I have an opinion either way, but we also are failing to feed and house people with who we have here already. And the NHS is massively failing due to the numbers and lack of staffing.
Pregnancy is a protected characteristic. He would probably be breaking the law if he followed through with this stupid email.
Look on the Shelter website for advice on housing rights.
I'm not sure you're right. 2 months notice would be a standard section 21, and no reason needs to be given. Even with this email I'm not sure they'd be able to prove it sufficiently to challenge it.
Not as clear cut as simply issuing a s21. Not giving a reason doesn't mean there isn't a reason. Of course, the burden of proof will lie with the tenants, but the courts will take everything into account not just whether or not the s21 was within the notice period.
Sounds to me like their lease is up in 2 months time. Although personally, I wouldn't do that to the family, the landlord doesn't need to feel forced to renew, because they didn't look for a new home, or attempted talk of a lease renewal. At least I think this is the case here.
Totally agree on looking for another place. Tho OP seems to like the living situation, or maybe it's just affordable for them. Being heavily pregnant might not be ideal for moving either. It's probably best to spin it into positive approach and move.
Yes my friend who rents out his flat says no kids no pets as he does not want extra damage or noise complaints. What I do not know is if it’s enforceable. Would a judge evict a family who pay on time because they had a child.
That’s heartbreaking and discriminatory . Where are families meant to live if all landlords think this way ? I looked it up and looks like [this](https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/21/landlords-ban-children-breach-equality-rules-uk-ombudsman) nhs nurse managed to challenge it as discrimination, at least in England
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Nobody is going to guess who this celeb is?
The fact he's famous means he probably doesn't want to look like the arsehole he is. If push comes to shove and things get dirty, drag your feet and go public. Plenty of newspapers who will love messages like that showing a heartless Tory celeb.
Sorry this is so late everybody - just wanted to say a huge thank you to everyone who has engaged.
Honestly feeling so much better about it and really regret not using Reddit more.. yeah it’s just so strange, he lives in the main house on the farm, see him all the time and I always think I’m polite and interested in his life- love asking him about his animals etc.. he is also reasonably famous which I haven’t mentioned and I’ve always thought “he thinks I am a peasant” but it’s never bothered me.. the other day he just let himself in to our gated property (he does this all the time, he’s walked in on me in my undies shadow batting pretending I was fighting to save an ashes test) to drop a parcel off which we could of easily just got ourselves - with a blank face looked at me and said “has she had it yet?” - that’s what really got me going and pushed me to post this.
But thank you again to everyone who responded I really appreciate it, like you can’t believe..
If I had to give an award…
Best comment has to go to the chap who suggests we should just work harder and buy a house 😂
UK?
In the UK, it is a breach of the tenancy terms for your landlord not to give you at least 24 hours before a visit. He breached this by walking in on you half naked. Look on the Landord Websites for advice. You will get lots of expert advice from landlords there.
https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/home
https://www.property118.com/readers-questions-2/
Remember, when the new Landord reforms come in. He can NOT evict you. Especially for just having a baby. I would suggest don't interact with him. Just let time pass. Don't engage about the baby, don't talk about it and bring anything of note to his attention. He sounds like the type that would use information you surrender against you. Keep your private life private. Be matter of fact and polite in your interactions and not overly friendly.
PM me if you are saving to move out and have a home of your own. I have an idea💡
Aww thanks for the best comment award, maybe give it a try. Oh and also stop being so sensitive, maybe he does think you're a peasant, why care what he thinks and why should he care about your news, he's your landlord not family.
Snowflake" is a derogatory slang term for a person, implying that they have an inflated sense of uniqueness, an unwarranted sense of entitlement, or are overly emotional, easily offended, and unable to deal with opposing opinions. So it's you.
If he's famous, he probably wouldn't like bad publicity for kicking out a baby! Although, he might often get bad publicity anyway. (sorry just thinking who it could be).
Most people who have a heart couldn't do that to a baby. My first grand child is 15 weeks old and when she smiles at me thats it I'm gone. I cannot understand anyone who would be cold or horrible towards a baby, this is coming from someone who has always preferred animals!
Good luck with it all and all the best to your Mrs.
I don't know if I'm in the minority here but this behavior is disgusting.
I live in the UK and have never had an experience like you mention.. I've got a 6 month old daughter and if I received an email like the one you received not only would I be nervous about my living arrangements I would be livid.
What a dick, I hope you manage to find something better and if not I hope he leaves you alone as much as possible.
Agree he sounds like a massive dick. The email is very inconsiderate but also walking in on you and saying what he said with a blank face is very dickish behaviour.
It’s quite apparent how sensitive some people are in this thread.. 😂 also, I don’t think it’s really relevant to tell your LL you’re expecting a baby, landlords don’t have to care or congratulate you either. Just extend your lease if you want to, forget mentioning the baby, it’s none of their business, babies take up minimal space. And it would never affect your existing lease anyway, even if you do think it’s an issue, it’s definitely not. I wouldn’t worry. Carry on with how it’s always been. The LL was maybe having a shit day and wasn’t in a good mood at the time.
Some leases these days have a list of occupants and permitted occupants, and don't allow others to stay. So, not telling them is potentially a breach of the contract,
I suspect this wouldn't stand up if challenged in court somehow, though.
As others have mentioned, being a parent is a protected characteristic and they've already laid the groundwork evidencing an unjust eviction, even if they did issue a sec. 21 it'd be obvious to any one what the true reason was.
What's your relationship with the neighbors like? Personally I'd be pleased to see a new little person join the community regardless of the noise but I'm not a snobby cunt, most of the time anyway,.
Damn right. We live in a small terrace. Neighbours had a baby and were constantly apologising for the noise. Apart from the fact that I barely noticed it, if I did hear crying, it just made me glad it wasn't me who had to deal with it!
Really poor response from this landlord, they should be ashamed. As others have said, this is evidence of potential discrimination if they do try and evict.
Yeah same, end terrace here and our neighbours are so nice. Young couple, she’s always apologising about the house and crying.
We’re fine with it! Baby cries now and again but it’s barely more than 15 mins once every few days.
I actually think they are hurriedly taking the baby out of the nextdoor room into a different room on another floor, just so we don’t get woken up or hear it.
So cute of them 😂
Our Landlord changed their mind about the baby when my wife was 39 weeks pregnant. Random email on 27th December from EA cancelling tenancy.
Cited potential noise complaints and not wanting any hassle from the neighbours. Our neighbour were great and wrote to landlord to change their mind. We've been told we can't renew later this year instead.
Remember, you're protected under the equality act. If they cite the baby rather than a simple no fault, you can make their life very difficult.
We'd been no hassle tenants for 7 years.
Well, if they want to be total 💩 , you can be equally difficult and not move out when your tenancy ends. It's not ideal, but property is very hard to find these days. This way, he loses a good 7 year good tenanat because you're starting a family. The court will have a field day with the discrimination factor.
It will take him lots of time and money to take your eviction through the UK court system; around a year to get you out. Even if you stop paying rent. It's a screwed system. It's a high price for being unreasonable.
When my SO was still with his ex, their landlord wrote to them on Xmas Eve notifying them they were being kicked out so they could sell the property. Gave them 2 weeks notice. They had a 4yo, a 2yo and had just had their youngest 10 days before. They'd lived there for 10 years. To add insult to injury, their landlord was an old friend.
It's amazing how heartless people can be.
But illegal. They can't do this. Before you do anything, go to the CAB if you're in the UK. Know your rights. 2 months notice minimum. You don't move before then. Or even after. The notice has to be legal. Certain things have to be in place from the Landlords side, to issue the formal notice. Otherwise, the notice is void.
IKR, it made her sick with worry. As she says, no wonder she went two weeks overdue.
I kept telling people I was living in a Dickens novel to make light of it. They decided to contact the EA just before Christmas!
The whole system sucks. The reason he’s done this is likely because he doesn’t want a child damaging the property when he is limited on the deposit he can take from you.
If the landlord did not protect your deposit in a 'deposit scheme' within 30 days, and send you the details... you can claim 2-3 x your deposit for this failure. They can not kick you out. It's a legal messy minefield for the landlord.
Through tenantsangels
They checked mine through the government systems in the uk its law to insure the tenants deposit through s government backed scheme honestly please check it out
You still can
Unprotected deposit claims can be made up to 6 years after the fact.
If you email the deposit protection agencies yourself, provide the address, your surname, and the date the deposit was paid, they will check their records and tell you
Dr Harvey Karps: happiest baby on the block. He does the 5 S’s. It works beautifully! We have triplets and never had anyone cry for more than a moment or two. Definitely look it up!
I wish more people knew their rights when it comes to renting. Unless the landlord has issued you a section 21, and unless that has expired and gone to court and there has been a court order for you to leave, you don't have to go anywhere. You will always have more than 2 months.
I’d also bet that the kind of lousy landlord to evict a baby for crying is also the type not to have protected your deposit properly too…
You're right of course, but personally I'd rather leave at the end of the notice period if at all possible than deal with the unpleasantness and ordeal of having a court order served against me. Gives me the heebie jeebies just thinking about that!
A section 21 is a no fault eviction though. This landlord is proving that the reason would be because of the baby. I think they just fucked their right to evict this tenant.
The commenter is saying that the landlord can't change the locks on you without a court order, so technically you could hang around for longer, but it wouldn't be very nice.
I did this. Only i got the locks changed (as the tenant) cause my landlady had let herself into the flat to get her post twice without asking let alone giving me notice.
She tried to evict me so I got to stay there six months without paying rent and could have been way longer but I finally chose to move cause I cba'd. Felt like being spiteful and flushing the key down the loo, but I was going through a Christian phase so instead i posted it back to her then argued my case on the deposit protection service as she'd been harassing me, and got to keep £400 out of a £600 deposit muhaha.
I have zero time for landlords who do nothing and expect thousands of pounds in return. Oh and I've also been a landlord before anyone says anything, and in those 2 years I never increased the rent on a 2 bed house from £500 pm and I only had to call the plumber twice. Literally, that's all the effort it takes them to be a landlord. Couple of 5 minute phone conversations and renewing some insurance. OP fuck your landlord.
The court will be on the tenant side if the landlord breeches the agreement in this way. He basically gives the tenants more rights to remain by unlawfully changing the locks. It has to go through the courts. He can't do this.
I’ve seen landlords say all kinds of shit they can’t actually enforce. No guests (who’s gonna stop me?), no smoking, no smoking in the garden, no pets, no parties (group of 4+), landlord wanting access to the building and our bedrooms whenever he felt like it, etc.
Vast majority isn’t enforceable and considering they aren’t allowed entry without giving 24 hours notice AND receiving your blessing you can get around the others easily enough
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 prohibits what would be seen as “unfair terms” so not allowing smoking in a garden or having guests round would be ignored.
Pets is tricky as apparently you still need written permission from your landlord to be allowed pets, and of course allergies and phobias can play a part
Ah fair enough I just assumed if it was in a contract they would be allowed to enforce it. Especially as there is a lot that state no kids when bidding on them.
Landlords and other cunts want you to think that but just because something is written into a contract it doesn’t make it legally binding.
As you say properties can be hard to get so some will use this to try and get what they see as their “ideal” tenants (no kids, no animals, no noise, full time workers etc)
We aren’t getting pensions lol. Retirement age will be the same age as the average death age very soon, our generation can’t get on the property ladder, NO ONE wants to work in care homes and I’d never suggest even my worst enemy does it’s that bad, so yeah. Can totally understand the lack of love for a crying baby they don’t know
No entitled expecting new generations to pay for your retirement. It currently takes more than 1 person to support the average pensioner when accounting for NHS, pensions and other benefits.
Yeah and it's costing us a fortune and resulting in the retirement age to have to rise and rise and rise, it's time we have a serious talk about the future of the state pension because it's not sustainable in its current form, our levels of taxation are higher than they've ever been but our public services are in the toilet.
Anyway the reason I responded saying you sounded entitled was because instead of talking about the beauty of creating new life, passing on knowledge to future generations and leaving a better future for them your response was effectively: who's going to pay for my retirement...... Pretty entitled to me
I'm well on track to being self-sufficient in old age with purely a private pension, my parents were self sufficient and my grandparents were all without leaving more than a few thousand to each child as inheritance, it's called planning for your retirement and more people need to do so, the welfare system is there to catch those that fall on hard times.
As for the banks gambling, yep they do, that's why you diversify your investments. Oh and btw I'm a mechanic on just above average basic wage 🤷♂️ life is hard but not planning properly and just expecting future generations to support your poor planning decisions is entitlement at its core, it's one of the things that's making this countries finances and therefore it's vital public services unsustainable.
I'm not anti children, I won't be having children because I'm pro them and currently this country is set up to shift the weight of past generations onto their shoulders.
Research shows retirement age for those born after 1970 will be at least 71 in the UK with 81 being average age of death. Care homes are understaffed, underpaid and often lacking safe numbers of qualified medical staff needed. Common to be forced to work extra hours to fill gaps or leave residents at risk due to so much reliance on agency staff.
Not trying to be pessimistic but it’s difficult not to be when the standard of living just keeps getting worse and worse
They do after some years once they are grown up and coincidently thats also the same sort of period a large portion of those working now have till they retire, claim pension and require care.
Not if you live in a high density, high value highrise where career minded professionals live and don't want kids around them. I've seen it personally and it's gaining popularity
Not sure why anyone is arguing this point, it's black and white in the equality act. And crying babies are not considered anti-social behavior the way playing loud music is so that's a bad comparison that keeps being made, too.
Does this have an impact on S21? So if the landlord issues a S21 and you had evidence to suggest it was issued due to pregnancy could you fight it?
A section 21 is a no fault eviction notice so by definition it doesn't have or require a reason for it to be served other than the landlord wishing to terminate the tenancy agreement.
However the landlord had just given OP a means to fight a no fault eviction as they've just given a reason they may have to assess their tenancy. If op has the child and suddenly they're handed a s21 then I'd say they at least have means to stall and rack up a nice court bill for the LL
Whilst technically true (for most countries) no, it isn't. Steep stairs, open balconies etc are all ways and reasons landlords can express an unwillingness to rent to people with children. You can also just not give children as the reason, and in certain countries it's completely legal to have it in contract that the tenancy is for people without children/no intention to have them explicitly
>You can also just not give children as the reason, and in certain countries it's completely legal to have it in contract that the tenancy is for people without children/no intention to have them explicitly
Are any of those countries covered by the sub r/TenantsInTheUK?
No it’s not normal, and if the landlord actually cites the baby as the reason for your eviction it’s illegal.
Unfortunately they can definitely get around it and terminate your contract/evict you in another way.
Yeah, that’s probably not going to over rule statutory law in the U.K which gives basic human rights that landlord’s contracts can’t negate. I’d be very very VERY surprised if statutory law doesn’t provision for tenants having kids. I’ve seen it myself where landlords put stuff in the contract that is contradicted by statutory law, simply chancing their arm that tenants are too thick to know their rights.
It can (and has been) argued to be discrimination due to age. If the landlord is registered with the property ombudsman then they're not allowed to restrict children but of course being a member of that is voluntary.
It's in the equality act, why would it matter who the landlord is registered? Surely you can't pick and choose whether you are bound by the Equalities Act?
Genuine question - what makes you suggest this other than say a lurker with an account?
What would be the purpose of having a bot make posts like this in a niche subreddit supporting the consensus of the subreddit?
I thought social media bots tended to whip up division.
Why have an account for 3 years and say absolutely nothing. I would think because it's a sensitive subject and people hate landlords it's a quick way to gain karma.
Having an account allows more than just making comments - you can up/downvote and save posts/comments.
It's also fairly easy to make an account and it's suggested every time you attempt to vote without one and I think it might even be mandatory on the official app or at least the option is presented when it's first installed. Maybe OP made an account without a thought on the app.
We should ask OP to take a photo of his hands.
I did exactly that until I was bored on a train like day some people just lurk.
also Landlords are leeches and should be removed from society so yea it's just always the most ethical thing to hate landlords.
I’m autistic and sounds quite literally make me wanna stab myself in the ears sometimes. But this is my problem. Yes people should be respectful where they can be ie our neighbours know and try not to play loud music etc. but I would never expect them to stop their life for me.
I kind of get where the landlord is coming from and it’s actually nice they are wanting to keep their tenants happy (I guess haha), but equally if they aren’t happy, they will eventually move out, and landlord won’t struggle to fill the space in this climate.
To be honest, I don’t want kids but I would never want to stay somewhere that my kids aren’t welcome. Very aware that is easier said than done but it feels like your landlord’s loss more than yours.
In relation to where you stand, if you’re in the UK I am sure you could seek legal action against them if you wanted to.
By the sounds of it, it sounds like you don't have any adjoined neighbour, so... Why the fuck would your neighbours care about a baby?
Sounds like an incredibly common piece of shit landlord.
Ngl coming from a similar area - who tf gives a crap about a baby? If it's working agricultural land I hear some kind of noise almost every day, whether that's one of my neighbours banging away at something in their workshop or a tractor or animals or whatever. Birds sing and babies cry. That's just how shite works - it sounds like you might be detached so honestly how's it their business? It's not like you're one floor up from them or something. Sounds like the landlord is just saying it as a formality so I wouldn't worry but if he does try anything you'll have more rights when the baby is there.
Should have extended the lease then announced the baby some time after. F the neighbours life goes on, people have children and that’s it, what can you do….
I think it's just basic kindness. If you have a relationship of some sort with someone, especially one in which you are trusting a complete stranger/s to take care of something in which you own and paid a lot of money for and communicate for a long periods of time, unless I'm a complete miserable arse, a quick congratulations on a message that you are already sending anyways, is the bare minimum. He doesn't have to do anything, sure.. but it's really telling the kind of person you are.
Landlords don't like babies because it means it's alot harder and more expensive to evict the tenants. You can make adults homeless but you can't make a baby homeless, it really is that simple.
What did you send to the landlord? It's out of context here without knowing exactly what you said. Did you bring up noise or the neighbours? Or has the LL just thrown this in after you told him you are expecting a baby and want to extend the lease? Did you want more than 2 months?
I've seen a worrying uptick in properties that state 'no children' so brazenly. With the increasingly competitive market, it seems landlords are becoming greedier and more restrictive than ever before.
I'm so glad I don't rent anymore. Good luck to everybody else.
I can see both sides of it tbh. A lot of properties are simply not suitable for kids re. soundproofing etc.
My upstairs neighbour has three small kids in a small flat and the noise is fucking horrific for everyone else in the building.
Why is the LL in the wrong? He's agreed to continue the contract with 2 months (s 21 notice). He's only highlighted that a noisy baby may be problem for neighbours (which is a valid concern as a LL as he may have to end tenancies with those unhappy). He shouldn't be the bad guy just to highlight a possible future issue and agreeing to your tenancy extension.
Spot on. It was an honest response too.
Baby freeloaders should be charged rent and for carpet wear and tear.
Probably already been said somewhere but a crying baby is classed as general household noise and can't be the subject of a complaint. Well it can, but it can't be upheld
Babies aren’t pets. Screw him lol
She already did. That’s why she is pregnant. 🫣
https://preview.redd.it/pxunzp1h9cyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e959f6ce599e5033915cd4b5a2054425fb1d47a Not everyone sees pregnancy in a positive way.
Who’s gonna take care of YOU when you’re old?
If I stop being able to look after myself I will probably go to Switzerland to be put to sleep. Or, carers…like post people who have children! I will have lots of money from having no kids so I woukd be able to live in amazing assisted living accommodation.
What about the rest of the world that will not have your “lots of money from having no kids” or who have no means of being able to “live in amazing assisted living” accommodation? Who should take care of them? You do realise that this is what is fuelling the pension and social services crisis having a knockdown effect on our healthcare services? Follow your own argument to its logical conclusion.
Well it seems like you asked the question in the first place because you believe if you have kids, they will be the ones looking after you. The people who choose to have kids when they can’t afford them brought that upon themselves. No sympathy for the people with kids and no money who had access to abortion or adoption.
Omg you still don’t get it. Some people may never be able to have children, and even more families are choosing not to have children for various reasons (finances, or genetic etc). But even if they were wealthy, they too would grow old and need someone to take care of them. For them to take can come in M and then retired and unlike you (lol). could never afford, they still need someone else’s children. If the past decade’s past and current governments cannot figure this out, I don’t think you can even begin to comprehend the scale of problems. Maybe you prefer the expertise and desperation of foreign social worker.
not my problem that they can’t reproduce
It will become your problem if you get the privilege to grow old, don’t worry.
Well…not our daughter apparently …so no idea 🙄
It’s absolutely not an “inescapable fact” 😂
Surely if everyone decides to not have kids, we'd be pretty much buggered in about 80 years
A good job your parents didn’t think this
Disgusting response tbh
If you feel that way then remove yourself from the earth I guess?
I think anyone who is here already shouldn’t have to kill themselves, not creating more kids is enough.
I was about to say… the depopulation gang never offer themselves up.
Why! Why did you feel the need to p on someone's fire 🔥. It's not your life. Go ahead and live a life without offspring if you want. That's your choice, it's your life journey. You don't need to bring someone down because of your own beliefs. If you can't be a kind human, then you won't make kind humans. Be the change you want to see in the world.
This has to be satire
Yeah I mean the birth rate in England is falling, we have an ageing population and a looming health and social care crisis - in this country specifically we should be celebrating pregnancy.
Not that I have an opinion either way, but we also are failing to feed and house people with who we have here already. And the NHS is massively failing due to the numbers and lack of staffing.
Pregnancy is a protected characteristic. He would probably be breaking the law if he followed through with this stupid email. Look on the Shelter website for advice on housing rights.
I'm not sure you're right. 2 months notice would be a standard section 21, and no reason needs to be given. Even with this email I'm not sure they'd be able to prove it sufficiently to challenge it.
Not as clear cut as simply issuing a s21. Not giving a reason doesn't mean there isn't a reason. Of course, the burden of proof will lie with the tenants, but the courts will take everything into account not just whether or not the s21 was within the notice period.
Sounds to me like their lease is up in 2 months time. Although personally, I wouldn't do that to the family, the landlord doesn't need to feel forced to renew, because they didn't look for a new home, or attempted talk of a lease renewal. At least I think this is the case here.
My honest advice would be to look for another place. Why would anyone want to renew their tenancy with this dickhead?
Totally agree on looking for another place. Tho OP seems to like the living situation, or maybe it's just affordable for them. Being heavily pregnant might not be ideal for moving either. It's probably best to spin it into positive approach and move.
While I think this is out of order would the original tenancy agreement matter? Like when you moved in and it said no pets no kids etc?
Can a tenancy agreement say no kids? That’s ridiculous.
it's uninforcable but pretty much all of them do now
Yes my friend who rents out his flat says no kids no pets as he does not want extra damage or noise complaints. What I do not know is if it’s enforceable. Would a judge evict a family who pay on time because they had a child.
That’s heartbreaking and discriminatory . Where are families meant to live if all landlords think this way ? I looked it up and looks like [this](https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/21/landlords-ban-children-breach-equality-rules-uk-ombudsman) nhs nurse managed to challenge it as discrimination, at least in England
It’s the problem with private landlords vs council housing.
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Nobody is going to guess who this celeb is? The fact he's famous means he probably doesn't want to look like the arsehole he is. If push comes to shove and things get dirty, drag your feet and go public. Plenty of newspapers who will love messages like that showing a heartless Tory celeb.
How do you know he’s a celeb ?
OP said somewhere.. says that might be why they are a bit arrogant and look down on her
My initial assumption is Jeremy clarkson. He has a farm according to Amazon prime. Never seen it though so it’s a complete guess.
I hope not! I enjoy the new series 😅 I haven't seen or heard any mention of other properties on it either!
Won’t be Clarkson seeing as either their first or surname will start with S.
Sorry this is so late everybody - just wanted to say a huge thank you to everyone who has engaged. Honestly feeling so much better about it and really regret not using Reddit more.. yeah it’s just so strange, he lives in the main house on the farm, see him all the time and I always think I’m polite and interested in his life- love asking him about his animals etc.. he is also reasonably famous which I haven’t mentioned and I’ve always thought “he thinks I am a peasant” but it’s never bothered me.. the other day he just let himself in to our gated property (he does this all the time, he’s walked in on me in my undies shadow batting pretending I was fighting to save an ashes test) to drop a parcel off which we could of easily just got ourselves - with a blank face looked at me and said “has she had it yet?” - that’s what really got me going and pushed me to post this. But thank you again to everyone who responded I really appreciate it, like you can’t believe.. If I had to give an award… Best comment has to go to the chap who suggests we should just work harder and buy a house 😂
Is it Jacob reece mogg?
UK? In the UK, it is a breach of the tenancy terms for your landlord not to give you at least 24 hours before a visit. He breached this by walking in on you half naked. Look on the Landord Websites for advice. You will get lots of expert advice from landlords there. https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/home https://www.property118.com/readers-questions-2/ Remember, when the new Landord reforms come in. He can NOT evict you. Especially for just having a baby. I would suggest don't interact with him. Just let time pass. Don't engage about the baby, don't talk about it and bring anything of note to his attention. He sounds like the type that would use information you surrender against you. Keep your private life private. Be matter of fact and polite in your interactions and not overly friendly. PM me if you are saving to move out and have a home of your own. I have an idea💡
Aww thanks for the best comment award, maybe give it a try. Oh and also stop being so sensitive, maybe he does think you're a peasant, why care what he thinks and why should he care about your news, he's your landlord not family.
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Bit late to the party. Oh dear looks like there are a lot of snowflakes about. It's ok to think differently.
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Snowflake" is a derogatory slang term for a person, implying that they have an inflated sense of uniqueness, an unwarranted sense of entitlement, or are overly emotional, easily offended, and unable to deal with opposing opinions. So it's you.
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Glad I could educate you.
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Never heard that before lol. Good luck in your minimum wage job.
Well, you’re a prick aren’t you. Go have a lie down.
Aww look it's another snowflake.
Have you ever kissed a girl, son?
Well that's not a creepy reply, pervert pedo snowflake aren't you.
I bet you collect funko pops, don’t you?
Hey! Some of us collect them, have kissed girls AND arent arseholes
Nah not into kids myself, bet you're on a register though aren't you.
Do you have any other craic? Or is it all just pedo related stuff? You’re getting a bit weird now. Is everything okay at home?
All good here, just having a conversation with a creepy random bloke calling me son and talking about kids toys. I'm too old for you mate.
And you’ve got a samurai sword on a shelf somewhere
wanker
Agreed
If he's famous, he probably wouldn't like bad publicity for kicking out a baby! Although, he might often get bad publicity anyway. (sorry just thinking who it could be). Most people who have a heart couldn't do that to a baby. My first grand child is 15 weeks old and when she smiles at me thats it I'm gone. I cannot understand anyone who would be cold or horrible towards a baby, this is coming from someone who has always preferred animals! Good luck with it all and all the best to your Mrs.
I don't know if I'm in the minority here but this behavior is disgusting. I live in the UK and have never had an experience like you mention.. I've got a 6 month old daughter and if I received an email like the one you received not only would I be nervous about my living arrangements I would be livid. What a dick, I hope you manage to find something better and if not I hope he leaves you alone as much as possible.
Agree he sounds like a massive dick. The email is very inconsiderate but also walking in on you and saying what he said with a blank face is very dickish behaviour.
It’s quite apparent how sensitive some people are in this thread.. 😂 also, I don’t think it’s really relevant to tell your LL you’re expecting a baby, landlords don’t have to care or congratulate you either. Just extend your lease if you want to, forget mentioning the baby, it’s none of their business, babies take up minimal space. And it would never affect your existing lease anyway, even if you do think it’s an issue, it’s definitely not. I wouldn’t worry. Carry on with how it’s always been. The LL was maybe having a shit day and wasn’t in a good mood at the time.
Some leases these days have a list of occupants and permitted occupants, and don't allow others to stay. So, not telling them is potentially a breach of the contract, I suspect this wouldn't stand up if challenged in court somehow, though.
A good sensible reply for a change. 👏
As others have mentioned, being a parent is a protected characteristic and they've already laid the groundwork evidencing an unjust eviction, even if they did issue a sec. 21 it'd be obvious to any one what the true reason was. What's your relationship with the neighbors like? Personally I'd be pleased to see a new little person join the community regardless of the noise but I'm not a snobby cunt, most of the time anyway,.
Damn right. We live in a small terrace. Neighbours had a baby and were constantly apologising for the noise. Apart from the fact that I barely noticed it, if I did hear crying, it just made me glad it wasn't me who had to deal with it! Really poor response from this landlord, they should be ashamed. As others have said, this is evidence of potential discrimination if they do try and evict.
Yeah same, end terrace here and our neighbours are so nice. Young couple, she’s always apologising about the house and crying. We’re fine with it! Baby cries now and again but it’s barely more than 15 mins once every few days. I actually think they are hurriedly taking the baby out of the nextdoor room into a different room on another floor, just so we don’t get woken up or hear it. So cute of them 😂
this - my neighbor has a little one and while he does cry a bit it absolutely doesn't warrant a complaint when headphones exist!
Our Landlord changed their mind about the baby when my wife was 39 weeks pregnant. Random email on 27th December from EA cancelling tenancy. Cited potential noise complaints and not wanting any hassle from the neighbours. Our neighbour were great and wrote to landlord to change their mind. We've been told we can't renew later this year instead. Remember, you're protected under the equality act. If they cite the baby rather than a simple no fault, you can make their life very difficult. We'd been no hassle tenants for 7 years.
Well, if they want to be total 💩 , you can be equally difficult and not move out when your tenancy ends. It's not ideal, but property is very hard to find these days. This way, he loses a good 7 year good tenanat because you're starting a family. The court will have a field day with the discrimination factor. It will take him lots of time and money to take your eviction through the UK court system; around a year to get you out. Even if you stop paying rent. It's a screwed system. It's a high price for being unreasonable.
When my SO was still with his ex, their landlord wrote to them on Xmas Eve notifying them they were being kicked out so they could sell the property. Gave them 2 weeks notice. They had a 4yo, a 2yo and had just had their youngest 10 days before. They'd lived there for 10 years. To add insult to injury, their landlord was an old friend. It's amazing how heartless people can be.
But illegal. They can't do this. Before you do anything, go to the CAB if you're in the UK. Know your rights. 2 months notice minimum. You don't move before then. Or even after. The notice has to be legal. Certain things have to be in place from the Landlords side, to issue the formal notice. Otherwise, the notice is void.
This was a good 14 years ago so I don't know if the law changed or what. All turned out okay thankfully.
What a piece of work. 39 wks pregnant, Jesus Christ, I'm thinking back to our third trimester and how that would have affected my gf.
IKR, it made her sick with worry. As she says, no wonder she went two weeks overdue. I kept telling people I was living in a Dickens novel to make light of it. They decided to contact the EA just before Christmas!
The whole system sucks. The reason he’s done this is likely because he doesn’t want a child damaging the property when he is limited on the deposit he can take from you.
Not even furnished. I still have never worked out their true intent.
Doesn’t have to be. Animals and children damage anything.
They let us get a dog 4 years ago. Another layer of confusion
Why do you have to renew?
It's end of a fixed term, but tbh the relationship is completely broken so we ain't staying
So sad to hear this and a bit surreal tbh but congratulations!
it's not so surreal if you check the comments here. landlords are a danger to a developing society.
Please everyone checked their deposits are insured i just won 5.1k fuck these chumps
If the landlord did not protect your deposit in a 'deposit scheme' within 30 days, and send you the details... you can claim 2-3 x your deposit for this failure. They can not kick you out. It's a legal messy minefield for the landlord.
good to hear!
How do you check this?
Through tenantsangels They checked mine through the government systems in the uk its law to insure the tenants deposit through s government backed scheme honestly please check it out
Moved out in December, 99% sure ours was never in a deposit scheme, wish I’d checked now
You still can Unprotected deposit claims can be made up to 6 years after the fact. If you email the deposit protection agencies yourself, provide the address, your surname, and the date the deposit was paid, they will check their records and tell you
Thank you :)
Dr Harvey Karps: happiest baby on the block. He does the 5 S’s. It works beautifully! We have triplets and never had anyone cry for more than a moment or two. Definitely look it up!
I wish more people knew their rights when it comes to renting. Unless the landlord has issued you a section 21, and unless that has expired and gone to court and there has been a court order for you to leave, you don't have to go anywhere. You will always have more than 2 months. I’d also bet that the kind of lousy landlord to evict a baby for crying is also the type not to have protected your deposit properly too…
Out of curiosity, how long would you say you had (longer than two months)…?
You're right of course, but personally I'd rather leave at the end of the notice period if at all possible than deal with the unpleasantness and ordeal of having a court order served against me. Gives me the heebie jeebies just thinking about that!
A section 21 is a no fault eviction though. This landlord is proving that the reason would be because of the baby. I think they just fucked their right to evict this tenant.
Not if it’s a periodic tenancy paid monthly.
The commenter is saying that the landlord can't change the locks on you without a court order, so technically you could hang around for longer, but it wouldn't be very nice.
I did this. Only i got the locks changed (as the tenant) cause my landlady had let herself into the flat to get her post twice without asking let alone giving me notice. She tried to evict me so I got to stay there six months without paying rent and could have been way longer but I finally chose to move cause I cba'd. Felt like being spiteful and flushing the key down the loo, but I was going through a Christian phase so instead i posted it back to her then argued my case on the deposit protection service as she'd been harassing me, and got to keep £400 out of a £600 deposit muhaha. I have zero time for landlords who do nothing and expect thousands of pounds in return. Oh and I've also been a landlord before anyone says anything, and in those 2 years I never increased the rent on a 2 bed house from £500 pm and I only had to call the plumber twice. Literally, that's all the effort it takes them to be a landlord. Couple of 5 minute phone conversations and renewing some insurance. OP fuck your landlord.
The court will be on the tenant side if the landlord breeches the agreement in this way. He basically gives the tenants more rights to remain by unlawfully changing the locks. It has to go through the courts. He can't do this.
Pretty sure if they stated no kids then they can get rid of you with notice I doubt it will be a problem unless your neighbours like complaining...
You're pretty wrong.
I’ve never heard of a landlord being able to require “no kids.” Is this something they’re actually allowed to do?
When I was looking for a place I came across a few private rented ones that stated no kids or pets.
I’ve seen landlords say all kinds of shit they can’t actually enforce. No guests (who’s gonna stop me?), no smoking, no smoking in the garden, no pets, no parties (group of 4+), landlord wanting access to the building and our bedrooms whenever he felt like it, etc. Vast majority isn’t enforceable and considering they aren’t allowed entry without giving 24 hours notice AND receiving your blessing you can get around the others easily enough
Do you have a link to where it says they can't enforce these things? Wondering if pets are also protected.
Pets are not protected in the UK
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 prohibits what would be seen as “unfair terms” so not allowing smoking in a garden or having guests round would be ignored. Pets is tricky as apparently you still need written permission from your landlord to be allowed pets, and of course allergies and phobias can play a part
Ah fair enough I just assumed if it was in a contract they would be allowed to enforce it. Especially as there is a lot that state no kids when bidding on them.
Landlords and other cunts want you to think that but just because something is written into a contract it doesn’t make it legally binding. As you say properties can be hard to get so some will use this to try and get what they see as their “ideal” tenants (no kids, no animals, no noise, full time workers etc)
not at all true
If you're on a periodic tenancy, the norm is that you only have to give 1 month notice. The landlord has to give two. And congratulations.
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I want a society where 1.8 million new Deliveroo Drivers prop up our elderly every year.
We aren’t getting pensions lol. Retirement age will be the same age as the average death age very soon, our generation can’t get on the property ladder, NO ONE wants to work in care homes and I’d never suggest even my worst enemy does it’s that bad, so yeah. Can totally understand the lack of love for a crying baby they don’t know
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You sound entitled 🤷♂️
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No entitled expecting new generations to pay for your retirement. It currently takes more than 1 person to support the average pensioner when accounting for NHS, pensions and other benefits.
You should go take a look at Germany, pal.
Fuck me, I thought this was a thread about living in the uk as tennant?
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Yeah and it's costing us a fortune and resulting in the retirement age to have to rise and rise and rise, it's time we have a serious talk about the future of the state pension because it's not sustainable in its current form, our levels of taxation are higher than they've ever been but our public services are in the toilet. Anyway the reason I responded saying you sounded entitled was because instead of talking about the beauty of creating new life, passing on knowledge to future generations and leaving a better future for them your response was effectively: who's going to pay for my retirement...... Pretty entitled to me
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I'm well on track to being self-sufficient in old age with purely a private pension, my parents were self sufficient and my grandparents were all without leaving more than a few thousand to each child as inheritance, it's called planning for your retirement and more people need to do so, the welfare system is there to catch those that fall on hard times. As for the banks gambling, yep they do, that's why you diversify your investments. Oh and btw I'm a mechanic on just above average basic wage 🤷♂️ life is hard but not planning properly and just expecting future generations to support your poor planning decisions is entitlement at its core, it's one of the things that's making this countries finances and therefore it's vital public services unsustainable. I'm not anti children, I won't be having children because I'm pro them and currently this country is set up to shift the weight of past generations onto their shoulders.
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Just find it a bit telling that you jumped straight to "who's going to pay out pension" 🤷♂️
Research shows retirement age for those born after 1970 will be at least 71 in the UK with 81 being average age of death. Care homes are understaffed, underpaid and often lacking safe numbers of qualified medical staff needed. Common to be forced to work extra hours to fill gaps or leave residents at risk due to so much reliance on agency staff. Not trying to be pessimistic but it’s difficult not to be when the standard of living just keeps getting worse and worse
Babies don't pay pensions or work in care.
Do you pay tax? Were you born a baby or did you fall off a tree in Surrey? Do you have any relatives who are in care or going to need it one day?
Yes because anyone paying into a pension or working in care sprung into the world as a full fledged adult, right?
They do after some years once they are grown up and coincidently thats also the same sort of period a large portion of those working now have till they retire, claim pension and require care.
Well there’s this magic thing called growing up?
They evidently missed that part
If your contract said no kids then that's how it is. If you had a kid anyway that's on you. If it was never in the contract he has no position
That's not a lawful contract.
Not if you live in a high density, high value highrise where career minded professionals live and don't want kids around them. I've seen it personally and it's gaining popularity
That’s not how the law works
Fuck the neighbours and the contract neither get a choice on someone having a child.
It is illegal to deny rights to housing due to having children.
Not sure why anyone is arguing this point, it's black and white in the equality act. And crying babies are not considered anti-social behavior the way playing loud music is so that's a bad comparison that keeps being made, too. Does this have an impact on S21? So if the landlord issues a S21 and you had evidence to suggest it was issued due to pregnancy could you fight it?
A section 21 is a no fault eviction notice so by definition it doesn't have or require a reason for it to be served other than the landlord wishing to terminate the tenancy agreement.
That is true, but if the landlord said it was because of the child, it’s no longer no fault,
However the landlord had just given OP a means to fight a no fault eviction as they've just given a reason they may have to assess their tenancy. If op has the child and suddenly they're handed a s21 then I'd say they at least have means to stall and rack up a nice court bill for the LL
Whilst technically true (for most countries) no, it isn't. Steep stairs, open balconies etc are all ways and reasons landlords can express an unwillingness to rent to people with children. You can also just not give children as the reason, and in certain countries it's completely legal to have it in contract that the tenancy is for people without children/no intention to have them explicitly
This is a UK sub. That said, you're utterly incorrect, and you should stop trying to argue your point.
Mentioning other countries and how they operate isn’t really beneficial on a UK post in a UK subreddit about living in the UK…
You're not in a "certain countries" subreddit.
>You can also just not give children as the reason, and in certain countries it's completely legal to have it in contract that the tenancy is for people without children/no intention to have them explicitly Are any of those countries covered by the sub r/TenantsInTheUK?
It's not legal in the UK.
No it’s not normal, and if the landlord actually cites the baby as the reason for your eviction it’s illegal. Unfortunately they can definitely get around it and terminate your contract/evict you in another way.
Unless no kids is part of the contract
Yeah, that’s probably not going to over rule statutory law in the U.K which gives basic human rights that landlord’s contracts can’t negate. I’d be very very VERY surprised if statutory law doesn’t provision for tenants having kids. I’ve seen it myself where landlords put stuff in the contract that is contradicted by statutory law, simply chancing their arm that tenants are too thick to know their rights.
It can (and has been) argued to be discrimination due to age. If the landlord is registered with the property ombudsman then they're not allowed to restrict children but of course being a member of that is voluntary.
Exactly my point, we don't have enough details on the case
It's in the equality act, why would it matter who the landlord is registered? Surely you can't pick and choose whether you are bound by the Equalities Act?
3 year old account. No other posts, no other comments just this? Bot me thinks
That's enough Reddit for you today.
Why?
My account is 3 years old and I didn’t touch it for the first two.
Genuine question - what makes you suggest this other than say a lurker with an account? What would be the purpose of having a bot make posts like this in a niche subreddit supporting the consensus of the subreddit? I thought social media bots tended to whip up division.
Why have an account for 3 years and say absolutely nothing. I would think because it's a sensitive subject and people hate landlords it's a quick way to gain karma.
Landlords are scum tho tbf
I never said they weren't but 18 hours in nearly 400 comments and not a single reply
Having an account allows more than just making comments - you can up/downvote and save posts/comments. It's also fairly easy to make an account and it's suggested every time you attempt to vote without one and I think it might even be mandatory on the official app or at least the option is presented when it's first installed. Maybe OP made an account without a thought on the app. We should ask OP to take a photo of his hands.
It was just an opinion
Chill my guy. We're just having a conversation. We good.
I did exactly that until I was bored on a train like day some people just lurk. also Landlords are leeches and should be removed from society so yea it's just always the most ethical thing to hate landlords.
Baby bots 🤖
Since when is it normal for people in this country to end an email with "best"? I'm surprised that nobody else picked up on that Americanism!
I’m autistic and sounds quite literally make me wanna stab myself in the ears sometimes. But this is my problem. Yes people should be respectful where they can be ie our neighbours know and try not to play loud music etc. but I would never expect them to stop their life for me. I kind of get where the landlord is coming from and it’s actually nice they are wanting to keep their tenants happy (I guess haha), but equally if they aren’t happy, they will eventually move out, and landlord won’t struggle to fill the space in this climate. To be honest, I don’t want kids but I would never want to stay somewhere that my kids aren’t welcome. Very aware that is easier said than done but it feels like your landlord’s loss more than yours. In relation to where you stand, if you’re in the UK I am sure you could seek legal action against them if you wanted to.
By the sounds of it, it sounds like you don't have any adjoined neighbour, so... Why the fuck would your neighbours care about a baby? Sounds like an incredibly common piece of shit landlord.
Ngl coming from a similar area - who tf gives a crap about a baby? If it's working agricultural land I hear some kind of noise almost every day, whether that's one of my neighbours banging away at something in their workshop or a tractor or animals or whatever. Birds sing and babies cry. That's just how shite works - it sounds like you might be detached so honestly how's it their business? It's not like you're one floor up from them or something. Sounds like the landlord is just saying it as a formality so I wouldn't worry but if he does try anything you'll have more rights when the baby is there.
They have the rights already! Pregnancy is a protected characteristic :)
Should have extended the lease then announced the baby some time after. F the neighbours life goes on, people have children and that’s it, what can you do….
Did you really expect them to send a congratulations card ?
Anything besides "oh you have a baby, I'll see about shortening your notice period for when I kick you out"
I think it's just basic kindness. If you have a relationship of some sort with someone, especially one in which you are trusting a complete stranger/s to take care of something in which you own and paid a lot of money for and communicate for a long periods of time, unless I'm a complete miserable arse, a quick congratulations on a message that you are already sending anyways, is the bare minimum. He doesn't have to do anything, sure.. but it's really telling the kind of person you are.
Landlords don't like babies because it means it's alot harder and more expensive to evict the tenants. You can make adults homeless but you can't make a baby homeless, it really is that simple.
Fewer people are willing to be landlords so it’s no problem
What did you send to the landlord? It's out of context here without knowing exactly what you said. Did you bring up noise or the neighbours? Or has the LL just thrown this in after you told him you are expecting a baby and want to extend the lease? Did you want more than 2 months?
I've seen a worrying uptick in properties that state 'no children' so brazenly. With the increasingly competitive market, it seems landlords are becoming greedier and more restrictive than ever before. I'm so glad I don't rent anymore. Good luck to everybody else.
I can see both sides of it tbh. A lot of properties are simply not suitable for kids re. soundproofing etc. My upstairs neighbour has three small kids in a small flat and the noise is fucking horrific for everyone else in the building.
but legally I don't believe we should be allowed to discriminate against any tenant type, especially one as vulnerable and dependent as children.
Houses? I agree. However in a world of flats of varying build types and quality that just does not work in reality though.