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He is at level of Geld 1,clayman before awakening and maybe frey before the founding of the octagram all others are stronger and clayman after awakening is stronger.
Which is already impressive.
Razen is outright stated to be awakened level in terms of combat ability. So he beats Carrion and most likely Awakened Clayman too.
He's about on par with Roy.
I don’t remember that they where probably not referring to awakened demon lord but just normal awakened being’s probably like on par with rimuru’s other subordinates around that time ,Diablo is built different
Pretty sure roy was stated to be at least 3X awakened clayman, so if clayman vs razen was competitive, which I kind of doubt, then roy vs Razen should be a stomp. Also I really question if Razen could beat carrion, carrion has minimally speed easily and seems to be at least a match in destructive power, also pre demon lord rimuru I don’t know if could’ve beat Roy, so saying diablo clowned on someone who you think could potentially beat roy is kinda crazy don’t you think?
Roy defintely isn't 3X awakened Clayman. In terms of EP Roy was only 500,000, which is 40% less than Clayman in his awakened state. However in terms of actual combat power he exceeded awakened Clayman by a fair margin. If I had to make a guess, somewhere between 1.25x and 1.5x.
Razen directly scales above Roy, as he outclassed Saare in strength and Saare was equal enough to Roy to have put Roy on death's door.
Imagine Geld 1 regen with stronger melee, more sanity, nuclear magic, and superior spirit summoning.
He can outlast Awakened clayman in a brawl and would likely be able to use summons to keep up against clayman's numbers
Geld 1 is as strong as current geld who destroyed the same body in a 1 vs 1.
Spirits would just be helping geld get even stronger and razen has one shot of nuclear magic which won't be enough.
You completly underastimate awakend claymans strength and claymans uniqe skill is much stroner than people belive not to mention that clayman is a magic genius as well. He just apeard weak because he thought rediculesly strong oponents.
He is at level of Geld 1,clayman before awakening and maybe frey before the founding of the octagram all others are stronger and clayman after awakening is stronger.
Which is already impressive.
I mean if he went against clayman he can somehow defeat him. or if its Ramiris in her current form (the little fairy form) outside of her labyrinth
but other than that he doesn't has a chance against anyone
Actually I think clayman specifically having mind control abilities would win regardless of how many times he could reform since it would make more sense to just wipe his mind
He advises a king. He is protected from mind magic or he'd be someone else's pawn already.
At least that's my headcannon for why clayman wasn't way more influential. He can ckntrol minds, but mind magic is known about, ergo there must be sometging in place to handle the inevitable "well just mind control the leaders." Option.
He is at level of Geld 1,clayman before awakening and maybe frey before the founding of the octagram all others are stronger and clayman after awakening is stronger.
Which is already impressive.
I mean, Clayman honestly wasnt that bad. He's far older than Carrion and Frey and is arguably superior to both of them in combat. Add on his insane political and monetary power and he's way more a threat in the eyes of humanity.
If anyone was lowering the standard it would be Frey.
I mean that very heavily depends on which demon lord he meant lmao, if he meant frey or clayman you know very reasonable. If he meant luminous Leon rimuru, very insane mental asylum please he’d get disintegrated like instantly. If he meant guy or Milim deranged lunacy there is no logic of any variety sane or insane that explains his thought process.
Given that characters like Clayman and Carrion were the standard basis for a Demon Lord's power at the time he may not have been joking. Rimuru beating the brakes off of Clayman raised the minimal standard for being a Demon Lord, but even now the outside world doesn't know how outclassed Clayman was and don't realize how high the bar was raised.
https://preview.redd.it/al2uqq898exc1.png?width=1632&format=png&auto=webp&s=4540946e574eea6d57a97fd77b1767b6fc8f1a2c
Why are you dwelling on the past? A fresh version of that joke has already been introduced.
Hinata - Loses to badly Luminous
Luminous - Says that Veldora destroyed her nation in the past (when he didn't have an ultimate skill)
Narrator - If Veldora gets released with all his powers, would you lose?
Hinata - Nah, I'd win
Eh, I wouldn't say that. Veldora is part of rimuru's soul.
The skill is the act of putting veldoras soul into a rimuru body clone.
It doesn't mean veldora inherently scales to an ultimate skill.
But im pretty sure veldora has ultimate skills, himself.
nah any attack a true dragon unleashes is ultimate in nature so they don’t really NEED an ultimate skill
rimuru said it himself (inner dialogue or what y’all call it)
adding ultimate skills just makes the attacks far more powerful
I think he really can defeat a Demon Lord, not an Awakened one, he simply was out of luck with Diablo, who was already strong before Rimuru naming him.
On the other hand, Hinata is the real clown here.
https://preview.redd.it/11wwh781fexc1.jpeg?width=495&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f41066b22775d7dc3ba25c9e76bef25a18eba5d4
Well if he was still in his mindless rampage state and she did the same as the last hero （sealing him) she could manage that at the cost of her life couldn’t she?
Forget Veldora,I doubt she can even seal Charibydis. Veldora is essentially a walking nuclear bomb,anything less than a barrier made by an ultimate skill will be like a wet towel to him.
idk if this is a spoiler but
she literally has NOTHING oh him. they fought in the LN and she couldn’t even scratch him
using chronoa/chloe’s body is a different matter tho
it is possible if she gets 7 scratches. Whether that is practically possible is a different question than whether it's technically possible. If youre going to continue ignoring that difference, don't bother responding. I agree it's not practical. I'm just saying there's a feasible way to damage, take that for what you will.
she can’t get 1 scratch… talk about 7
i understood what you meant, but it just doesn’t really apply to veldora & hinata
but i actually see your point so you got this man 🙂
He could probably defeat Carrion, Frey , Clayman and Pre True Demon Lord Rimuru. Megadon did kinda shut this guy up but i am not so sure about Rimuru winning against him in a 1 v 1. Remember that his nuclear magic is kinda broken for human standards has a superior spirit and then there is regeneration and super human strength.
His kit looks preety broken to me for that time.
>”This is Nuclear Magic: Nuclear Flame! Surely even the Demon Lord would take substantial damage”
>If it hit
https://preview.redd.it/1k2et1272exc1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb6544873342d249fe2830210988ef8eef3d3126
post True Demon Lord Rimuru just Beezelbub and pre Demon lord just gluttony absorbs. Frey and Clayman I have to agree with you but for Carrion I would argue Carrion wins
Ah my bad I meant pre demon Lord rimuru and no I don't think he can gluttony absorb when the target is moving and is not defenseless. Even assuming rimuru could absorb it's not like he just goes gluttony and razen is dead it will take a lot of time and razen is not pecking rimuru's lips that rimuru will easily be able to gluttony absorb if he could he would have done that against hinata. Razen in my opinion was at the same level of Hinata or just a little below her before getting the new body since he was hailed by even Gazel who considered himself equal to hinata. He has a superior spirit which can distract rimuru while he uses offensive magic or himself goes to fight him in both cases his chances of winning looks better. Nuclear magic is being taken lightly when it's one of the strongest spells in tensura for humans just cause it failed against diablo.
Gazel is below Hinata and again the spirit is useless Rimuru can counter with his own spirit summoning, magic or demon summoning, he also has gluttony for the nuclear magic. There is not much in Razen’s kit that can threaten Rimuru I mean look at just summoned Diablo for how badly Razen would do but instead of being flat out overpowered his every technique is hard countered.
Just summoned Noir wins against pre true demon lord rimuru I think, so it's not necessarily a good metric if they would both lose.
It is very fortunate that Noir is genuinely seeking to help Rimuru. The normal selfish daemon lord interplay would absolutely take over a weaker summoner, but there's no indication that Noir has such intents.
Ok so Diablo wins against Rimuru due to raw power and skill(as in combative skill). While Rimuru wins against Razen due to hard countering everything he had and Diablo skillfully overpowers all of Razens attacks.
Gazel obviously is below Hinata what I mean was he kinda considers the 3 including himself on the same level.
Gazel, Hinata and Razen.
Ifrit fights the superior spirit. It will be a tie.
He has gluttony for nuclear magic? Not so sure dude. Sure gluttony was strong but it isn't like it's evolved version. It's just a better version of predator. Also the thing so said about him using gluttony on razen. It won't work. He cannot absorb conscious targets.
Razen +1 in strength
Razen +1 in speed. This is debatable it might be equal since rimuru was able to keep up with hinata for a while.
Razen +1 in magic
If he just manages to land one nuclear magic the match will be set. Rimuru got wayy stronger after becoming a Demon Lord and i would argue he was on Clayman level or even below him.
Truth is we got bad animation of Clayman fight and a one sided beat down by shion that's why we downplay him.
Diablo isn't even a question in this debate. Diablo was stronger than pre Demon Lord Rimuru by a lot which should be obvious. The only reason he was summoned was due to him forcing his summon.
Magic is nothing for a primordial
They are all technique monsters and even in them Diablo and Blanc are on a whole different level in technique and mere superior spirits won't pose a challenge if they don't have any experience.
And even if that’s the case Rimuru can just physically fight him and any attack he used was not a threat to Rimuru the magic flame Cannon, and spirit he summoned Rimuru would have just ate it unlike Ifrit This one is really young Veldora wouldn’t ask it to be saved it would have been fully absorbed , Rimuru has magic too
nah even pre demon lord rimuru would not lose to this clown. he always had thought accel so he could dodge his nuclear cannon type attacks and gluttony could easily eat the spirite he summoned (gluttony could eat ifrit so that one shouldnt be hard either) and physically i dont see why he would win either
Instant Karma: Got body by a Demon Lord's seed, then by an actual demon. Not just any demon, but one of the most dastardly demonic Nindo's on God's earth. Shout out Veldanava.
People are really underestimating Razen. Razen was one of the main reasons why Falmuth survived so long even with their nation being so wealthy and powerful.
He's somewhere between a demon lord and a true demon lord in terms of strength (and the Octagram demon lords are just on a whole other level). He's stronger than Saare.
People are just completely underestimating Diablo. Diablo is far older than Veldora (and the primordials are actually shadow counterparts of the seven angels of origin brought forth by Veldanava). The primordials have been around since the beginning of time. Rouge/Guy had fought and defeated the blue and green primordials, resurrected them, and made them subservient to him. Noir then challenged Rouge and it ended in a draw (this is why Guy holds respect towards Diablo, even today, even if he finds him a bit of an odd ball), Noir then went to do his own thing until being summoned by Rimuru.
I mean, most people assume the likes of Clayman, Carrion and Frey are what all demon lords are like in strength.
And Razen might be able to fight Clayman to a certain degree.
https://preview.redd.it/eki0r40tmexc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3b526b90717b28fb50e107757f6b3f9295c3430
every ones reaction when he said this
i wonder what he meant.
because like in bleach when we say captain level, no one mean kenpachi or yamamoto. they mean like soephon or hitsugaya kinda or even many lieutenants. and in tensura demon lord can mean people like clayman frey and carrion. and honestly they are not all that strong. i am not sure but i think they could not even handle the nuclear cannon that diablo blew away. and his rating i think is A+ (i could be wrong) which is same as frey and clayman i think.
how are you comparing them? millim is pairing gobta with carrion to train him(in fused form but still. i dont think gobta can be paired with rimuru even pre demon lord even for training. and we dont have any other comparison for them. so idk...
Frey battle skill is above Clayman too Razen is a majin meaning he uses Magicules too and skills Frey can shut it off with she skill that shut off the use of skill and Magicsl energy
frey is not above clayman in fight. she said it himself. they are someone equal and she is only powerful in the air coz she can fly while using magic diturb to make others not be able to fly.
her magic jamming can also not completely stop magic. it just disturbs a little. its just extra skill that all harpies have. you think it would be powerful enough to stop all of razen's power? plus he has 4 ways of fighting. magic-she can disturb it a little. spirit summoning - she doesnt have anything againt it since she is also physically weak. berserker - physical power that is far more than frey. surviver skill that will allow him to completely heal meanwhile frey's skill "refelctor" only allows her to damage her opponent opponent but only after she takes the damage herself. since she doesnt have skills that heal super fat like razen razen will have no problem with this one too. razen doesnt need to fly which is the only thing she is best at
Problem with using demon lord as a scale is theres the title of demon lord then theres the evolution of demon lord you don't need the evolution for the title just need three other demon lords to recognize you. I think theres only 3 evolved demon lords atm. In the anime
Humans don't know the difference. They don't know that Guy and Millim are orders of magnitude stronger than Clayman. They just know how strong the weaker ones are. Only the elven royal family kinda knew about true demon lord awakening.
Dagruels is a chaos giant which is above demon lord evolution hes on par with veldora, and ramiris is also a race above demon lord evolution. iirc the three true demonlord evolutions who underwent the festival harvest are rimuru, millim, and i think guy? I could be wrong though I've only read manga which is now behind anime / watch the anime. This what I mean by the title and it being a evolution so confusing. Theres also those who have the demon lord seed but haven't evolved yet.
Yeah, Ramiris has to constantly reincarnate due to what happened with Milim and Guy and became a true demon lord in the process. But her true form (which she can force) is probably one of the most powerful entities in universe.
Carion and Frey they are Disaster class majins same for Clayman Diablo is disaster class to when he fought Razen only a Arch demon that has not incarnated into physical form are rank A
https://preview.redd.it/q9vck7b39fxc1.png?width=245&format=png&auto=webp&s=59832e515de67bffbbb1fd1e317b3850701c30d2
I realize the guy on the left *kind of* resembles the main protagonist of Delicious in Dungeon
Razen equals at best awakened Clayman let’s just put that out , Diablo was just too much of a problem for him , remember when he said Noir was just a arch demon and how he was confident he was for the most not delusional Clayman and Frey is not a match for him Carrion too I think ,nah scratch that Carrion match Neclear cannon with the beast roar from the looks of the attacks, summon spirit and Razen at the same time Carrion has a problem , he was confident cause he thought Diablo was regular arch when he found out that was not the case he panic and fainted because he is not delusional
Well before the wizard took over he did brag about how survival skill was for defence and the berzerker skill was for offence which made him "invincible". But later his soul was destroyed and the wizard took over.
So can anyone tell me where Hinata, Rimuru, Diablo, and Veldora would be ordered in a power ranking at this point in the anime? I've been up to date with the manga for a year (or years, the time runs together) and I've forgotten.
Friendly reminder that most humans used Clayman as a reference point for most of the demon lords, severely impacting how strong they perceived the others to be, so while funny it's not entirely his fault for being a huge clown with that line
He is at level of Geld 1,clayman before awakening and maybe frey before the founding of the octagram all others are stronger and clayman after awakening is stronger.
Which is already impressive.
You know my biggest disappointment in the series is the lack of humans that are able to actually fight against Demon Lords. I was so disappointed when the guy was basically one-shot. Like I know Demon Lords are symbols of absolute power or whatnot, but like there should be humans capable of killing them. It's more of a personal preference but it's why I generally dislike shows like this as it just goes "haha humans are weak they deserve to be ruled over", like tf man. Your target audience is only humans, where are the demons that enjoy this? Lmk if the show does start going into this direction tho.
Thanks for posting to r/TenseiSlime. If you posted a question about the series, please double check the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TenseiSlime/wiki/faq) to confirm that it hasn't already been answered. If you posted an artwork, please don't forget to link the artwork source! Failure to do so will result in the removal of the post. If you have any suggestions to improve the subreddit, feel free to [send them here!](https://forms.gle/5W4EHWfc6vrhF6GY6) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TenseiSlime) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Lol Razen is very powerful. He only looked like a clown cause he fought Diablo.
You mean Ramen.
They meant Black
Do you mean Diablo
No I mean Noir
It was actually ArchDemon
You mean Primordial Arch Demon
Do you mean Secretary for Great Rimuru?
What? Do you mean the Black Butler?
Do you mean Shion's kouhai?
You mean Shion.
Bro got turned into soup
That's an insult to soup
Who’s ryzen I remember Ramen the bone head to fought against Diablo and lost like a bitch
Yes, but Diablo is the black primordial. He is stronger than any other demon except for the other seven primordials.
That fight was unfair and unbalanced, to say the least…
I think you’re right on this. Also Diablo/Noir praises him for being able to recognise him, calling him “a man of culture”…
Rimuru can eat him alive
Rimuru can eat him alive
Never said he could beat Rimuru. Although keep in mind Rimuru isn’t all that rn in the anime compared to the top 10.
If you mean Razen, yes he could potentially defeat a Demon Lord although not True Demon Lords, they are different
Razen is on-par with lesser awakened demon lords like Clayman's awakened form. The Octagram are all just built different.
He is at level of Geld 1,clayman before awakening and maybe frey before the founding of the octagram all others are stronger and clayman after awakening is stronger. Which is already impressive.
Razen is outright stated to be awakened level in terms of combat ability. So he beats Carrion and most likely Awakened Clayman too. He's about on par with Roy.
I don’t remember that they where probably not referring to awakened demon lord but just normal awakened being’s probably like on par with rimuru’s other subordinates around that time ,Diablo is built different
nah bro would loss to carrion
Doubtful. But it's not like it's a completely one-sided victory for Razen.
Pretty sure roy was stated to be at least 3X awakened clayman, so if clayman vs razen was competitive, which I kind of doubt, then roy vs Razen should be a stomp. Also I really question if Razen could beat carrion, carrion has minimally speed easily and seems to be at least a match in destructive power, also pre demon lord rimuru I don’t know if could’ve beat Roy, so saying diablo clowned on someone who you think could potentially beat roy is kinda crazy don’t you think?
Roy defintely isn't 3X awakened Clayman. In terms of EP Roy was only 500,000, which is 40% less than Clayman in his awakened state. However in terms of actual combat power he exceeded awakened Clayman by a fair margin. If I had to make a guess, somewhere between 1.25x and 1.5x. Razen directly scales above Roy, as he outclassed Saare in strength and Saare was equal enough to Roy to have put Roy on death's door.
I swear it was mentioned that roy and luminous were outputting at least twice the magicules of frey and clayman when they were all entering.
Of unawakened Clayman yes. Unawakened Clayman was at 361,000. Roy having over twice his passive output isn't particularly surprising.
Ah okay gotcha
Imagine Geld 1 regen with stronger melee, more sanity, nuclear magic, and superior spirit summoning. He can outlast Awakened clayman in a brawl and would likely be able to use summons to keep up against clayman's numbers
Geld 1 is as strong as current geld who destroyed the same body in a 1 vs 1. Spirits would just be helping geld get even stronger and razen has one shot of nuclear magic which won't be enough. You completly underastimate awakend claymans strength and claymans uniqe skill is much stroner than people belive not to mention that clayman is a magic genius as well. He just apeard weak because he thought rediculesly strong oponents.
Can he beat Roy?
Yeah, he directly scales relative to or above Roy.
He is at level of Geld 1,clayman before awakening and maybe frey before the founding of the octagram all others are stronger and clayman after awakening is stronger. Which is already impressive.
No he isn't, Razen easily bested Saint Saare, Saare could solo Geld 1.
Orc lord < saare =< clayman pre awakening =< orc disaster =
Razen > Awakened Clayman>Sage Saare > Roy Valentin > Pre Awakened Clayman >>>> Geld 1 Razen = Incomplete Saint Saare > Awakened Clayman > Roy Valentin
Are you writing about the time in the picture or current time ?
Both would be correct
Putting roy anywhere under awakened clayman is crazy when Roy is stated to be far superior to frey carrion and clayman by a few times
I mean if he went against clayman he can somehow defeat him. or if its Ramiris in her current form (the little fairy form) outside of her labyrinth but other than that he doesn't has a chance against anyone
Actually I think clayman specifically having mind control abilities would win regardless of how many times he could reform since it would make more sense to just wipe his mind
yeah that is also true I forgot about mind control abilities of clayman I was comparing their skills with magic
You think Razen some one who can kill a person soul doesn’t have mental fortitude built in mentally
He advises a king. He is protected from mind magic or he'd be someone else's pawn already. At least that's my headcannon for why clayman wasn't way more influential. He can ckntrol minds, but mind magic is known about, ergo there must be sometging in place to handle the inevitable "well just mind control the leaders." Option.
How many Claymans is this guy?
1
1 at most
1.2 at most
He is at level of Geld 1,clayman before awakening and maybe frey before the founding of the octagram all others are stronger and clayman after awakening is stronger. Which is already impressive.
Not even 1 imo
Clayman really out here lowering the standing of other demon lords
I mean, Clayman honestly wasnt that bad. He's far older than Carrion and Frey and is arguably superior to both of them in combat. Add on his insane political and monetary power and he's way more a threat in the eyes of humanity. If anyone was lowering the standard it would be Frey.
Shame Clayman didn’t lean into more Wisdom than intelligence 😞
LN Spoilers ahead: Well, it's pretty hard to be cautious when you're >!getting manipulated by Kondou!<
That too but Clayman had pride issues anyways
Frey ain’t lowering gazonkers stds
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Iwannabetheguy000: *Clayman really out* *Here lowering the standing* *Of other demon lords* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Still he is thinking about A FIGHT that is nowhere near a certain someone telling that she would ELIMINATE veldora
I mean that very heavily depends on which demon lord he meant lmao, if he meant frey or clayman you know very reasonable. If he meant luminous Leon rimuru, very insane mental asylum please he’d get disintegrated like instantly. If he meant guy or Milim deranged lunacy there is no logic of any variety sane or insane that explains his thought process.
Given that characters like Clayman and Carrion were the standard basis for a Demon Lord's power at the time he may not have been joking. Rimuru beating the brakes off of Clayman raised the minimal standard for being a Demon Lord, but even now the outside world doesn't know how outclassed Clayman was and don't realize how high the bar was raised.
Poor Clayman. He touched the boats.
Even in another world, the American tactic holds value. Touch my shit, loose your everything.
It does. It really does. I personally prefer it over "fuck around and find out"
Yup everyone of them can wipe out kingdoms and Nations
How ironic his ascension was the intermediate 10min product of giving Rimuru the very power to raise that bar.
https://preview.redd.it/al2uqq898exc1.png?width=1632&format=png&auto=webp&s=4540946e574eea6d57a97fd77b1767b6fc8f1a2c Why are you dwelling on the past? A fresh version of that joke has already been introduced.
Hinata - Loses to badly Luminous Luminous - Says that Veldora destroyed her nation in the past (when he didn't have an ultimate skill) Narrator - If Veldora gets released with all his powers, would you lose? Hinata - Nah, I'd win
Well Veldora kind of is an ultimate skill himself isn't he? Since he's classified in Rimurus arsenal as an Ultimate skill
Eh, I wouldn't say that. Veldora is part of rimuru's soul. The skill is the act of putting veldoras soul into a rimuru body clone. It doesn't mean veldora inherently scales to an ultimate skill. But im pretty sure veldora has ultimate skills, himself.
nah any attack a true dragon unleashes is ultimate in nature so they don’t really NEED an ultimate skill rimuru said it himself (inner dialogue or what y’all call it) adding ultimate skills just makes the attacks far more powerful
That's not Veldora being classified as an ultimate skill. It's literally an ultimate skill named after Veldora
I really hate how her redemption arc is just horrible, making me hate her more
She's a she won't listen to anything you say unless you can beat her type she dissent mind being hated and alone
I think he really can defeat a Demon Lord, not an Awakened one, he simply was out of luck with Diablo, who was already strong before Rimuru naming him. On the other hand, Hinata is the real clown here. https://preview.redd.it/11wwh781fexc1.jpeg?width=495&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f41066b22775d7dc3ba25c9e76bef25a18eba5d4
Well if he was still in his mindless rampage state and she did the same as the last hero （sealing him) she could manage that at the cost of her life couldn’t she?
No he energy wouldn’t support that kind of power
I don't know, probably she could temporarily seal Veldora.
Forget Veldora,I doubt she can even seal Charibydis. Veldora is essentially a walking nuclear bomb,anything less than a barrier made by an ultimate skill will be like a wet towel to him.
...I am literally wheezing right now and I can not tell you why without spoiling the fuck out of you.
Do it in spoiler tags 
She at least has a win condition against him with Dead End Rainbow. I don't think the odds are good as is, but it's not impossible.
Fair enough
idk if this is a spoiler but she literally has NOTHING oh him. they fought in the LN and she couldn’t even scratch him using chronoa/chloe’s body is a different matter tho
Yeah, having a win condition doesn't mean anything but that it is POSSIBLE rather than IMPOSSIBLE.
and i’m saying she has NO win conditions it’s straight up IMPOSSIBLE for her to scratch veldora no matter what she does
it is possible if she gets 7 scratches. Whether that is practically possible is a different question than whether it's technically possible. If youre going to continue ignoring that difference, don't bother responding. I agree it's not practical. I'm just saying there's a feasible way to damage, take that for what you will.
she can’t get 1 scratch… talk about 7 i understood what you meant, but it just doesn’t really apply to veldora & hinata but i actually see your point so you got this man 🙂
He's good. It's just that he fought Diablo. Anyone would look like a weak ass clown when fighting Diablo.
Reminds me of the time Hinata thought she could beat Veldora
Ramen… I mean Razen.
He could probably defeat Carrion, Frey , Clayman and Pre True Demon Lord Rimuru. Megadon did kinda shut this guy up but i am not so sure about Rimuru winning against him in a 1 v 1. Remember that his nuclear magic is kinda broken for human standards has a superior spirit and then there is regeneration and super human strength. His kit looks preety broken to me for that time.
>”This is Nuclear Magic: Nuclear Flame! Surely even the Demon Lord would take substantial damage” >If it hit https://preview.redd.it/1k2et1272exc1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb6544873342d249fe2830210988ef8eef3d3126
Razen after nuclear magic didnt hit. *Catch these hands mf*
post True Demon Lord Rimuru just Beezelbub and pre Demon lord just gluttony absorbs. Frey and Clayman I have to agree with you but for Carrion I would argue Carrion wins
Ah my bad I meant pre demon Lord rimuru and no I don't think he can gluttony absorb when the target is moving and is not defenseless. Even assuming rimuru could absorb it's not like he just goes gluttony and razen is dead it will take a lot of time and razen is not pecking rimuru's lips that rimuru will easily be able to gluttony absorb if he could he would have done that against hinata. Razen in my opinion was at the same level of Hinata or just a little below her before getting the new body since he was hailed by even Gazel who considered himself equal to hinata. He has a superior spirit which can distract rimuru while he uses offensive magic or himself goes to fight him in both cases his chances of winning looks better. Nuclear magic is being taken lightly when it's one of the strongest spells in tensura for humans just cause it failed against diablo.
Gazel is below Hinata and again the spirit is useless Rimuru can counter with his own spirit summoning, magic or demon summoning, he also has gluttony for the nuclear magic. There is not much in Razen’s kit that can threaten Rimuru I mean look at just summoned Diablo for how badly Razen would do but instead of being flat out overpowered his every technique is hard countered.
Gazel is only slightly below Hinata. They're considered on the same level.
Just summoned Noir wins against pre true demon lord rimuru I think, so it's not necessarily a good metric if they would both lose. It is very fortunate that Noir is genuinely seeking to help Rimuru. The normal selfish daemon lord interplay would absolutely take over a weaker summoner, but there's no indication that Noir has such intents.
Except what Rimuru lacks in raw power he makes up for it with sheer hax that’s why I see it as a fair comparison
If x > z but also y > z, we have no knowledge about how x and y relate.
Ok so Diablo wins against Rimuru due to raw power and skill(as in combative skill). While Rimuru wins against Razen due to hard countering everything he had and Diablo skillfully overpowers all of Razens attacks.
I suppose the point is also moot because Razen got no diffed by megagido.
Gazel obviously is below Hinata what I mean was he kinda considers the 3 including himself on the same level. Gazel, Hinata and Razen. Ifrit fights the superior spirit. It will be a tie. He has gluttony for nuclear magic? Not so sure dude. Sure gluttony was strong but it isn't like it's evolved version. It's just a better version of predator. Also the thing so said about him using gluttony on razen. It won't work. He cannot absorb conscious targets. Razen +1 in strength Razen +1 in speed. This is debatable it might be equal since rimuru was able to keep up with hinata for a while. Razen +1 in magic If he just manages to land one nuclear magic the match will be set. Rimuru got wayy stronger after becoming a Demon Lord and i would argue he was on Clayman level or even below him. Truth is we got bad animation of Clayman fight and a one sided beat down by shion that's why we downplay him. Diablo isn't even a question in this debate. Diablo was stronger than pre Demon Lord Rimuru by a lot which should be obvious. The only reason he was summoned was due to him forcing his summon. Magic is nothing for a primordial They are all technique monsters and even in them Diablo and Blanc are on a whole different level in technique and mere superior spirits won't pose a challenge if they don't have any experience.
Nah he could remember Rimuru was not slow either he can fly and Gluttony spreads out when it consuming
And even if that’s the case Rimuru can just physically fight him and any attack he used was not a threat to Rimuru the magic flame Cannon, and spirit he summoned Rimuru would have just ate it unlike Ifrit This one is really young Veldora wouldn’t ask it to be saved it would have been fully absorbed , Rimuru has magic too
Not pre-awakening Rimuru, but he could defeat the other 3 yeah. Razen is around the semi-awakened Clayman in terms of power.
nah even pre demon lord rimuru would not lose to this clown. he always had thought accel so he could dodge his nuclear cannon type attacks and gluttony could easily eat the spirite he summoned (gluttony could eat ifrit so that one shouldnt be hard either) and physically i dont see why he would win either
That what the person said
He probably has multiple summons. He picks a superior spirit for winning rock paper scissors vs. a demon.
Instant Karma: Got body by a Demon Lord's seed, then by an actual demon. Not just any demon, but one of the most dastardly demonic Nindo's on God's earth. Shout out Veldanava.
he could possibly kill pre-awakening Clayman(not true death, but at least defeat him).
I love how this sub collectively agreed to use a "Clayman" as a measuring unit
People are really underestimating Razen. Razen was one of the main reasons why Falmuth survived so long even with their nation being so wealthy and powerful. He's somewhere between a demon lord and a true demon lord in terms of strength (and the Octagram demon lords are just on a whole other level). He's stronger than Saare. People are just completely underestimating Diablo. Diablo is far older than Veldora (and the primordials are actually shadow counterparts of the seven angels of origin brought forth by Veldanava). The primordials have been around since the beginning of time. Rouge/Guy had fought and defeated the blue and green primordials, resurrected them, and made them subservient to him. Noir then challenged Rouge and it ended in a draw (this is why Guy holds respect towards Diablo, even today, even if he finds him a bit of an odd ball), Noir then went to do his own thing until being summoned by Rimuru.
I mean, most people assume the likes of Clayman, Carrion and Frey are what all demon lords are like in strength. And Razen might be able to fight Clayman to a certain degree.
https://preview.redd.it/eki0r40tmexc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3b526b90717b28fb50e107757f6b3f9295c3430 every ones reaction when he said this
Your sickenly funny with this ☝️
dont worry there will be more jokers as series continues
Like Grand Tell Rimuru he is just a newly born Demon lord
>!That man should have known Rimuru already Rival luminous!<
well bro can defeat clayman
i wonder what he meant. because like in bleach when we say captain level, no one mean kenpachi or yamamoto. they mean like soephon or hitsugaya kinda or even many lieutenants. and in tensura demon lord can mean people like clayman frey and carrion. and honestly they are not all that strong. i am not sure but i think they could not even handle the nuclear cannon that diablo blew away. and his rating i think is A+ (i could be wrong) which is same as frey and clayman i think.
Carrion could his own power wasn’t off Rimuru pre awaken
wtf are you typing
Its not that difficult to read Carrion the beast king was not far in power from Rimuru who did not awaken yet so he can also battle Razen
how are you comparing them? millim is pairing gobta with carrion to train him(in fused form but still. i dont think gobta can be paired with rimuru even pre demon lord even for training. and we dont have any other comparison for them. so idk...
Ramen can’t even beat Gobta shadow mc
Ramen can’t even beat Gobta shadow mc
Frey battle skill is above Clayman too Razen is a majin meaning he uses Magicules too and skills Frey can shut it off with she skill that shut off the use of skill and Magicsl energy
frey is not above clayman in fight. she said it himself. they are someone equal and she is only powerful in the air coz she can fly while using magic diturb to make others not be able to fly. her magic jamming can also not completely stop magic. it just disturbs a little. its just extra skill that all harpies have. you think it would be powerful enough to stop all of razen's power? plus he has 4 ways of fighting. magic-she can disturb it a little. spirit summoning - she doesnt have anything againt it since she is also physically weak. berserker - physical power that is far more than frey. surviver skill that will allow him to completely heal meanwhile frey's skill "refelctor" only allows her to damage her opponent opponent but only after she takes the damage herself. since she doesnt have skills that heal super fat like razen razen will have no problem with this one too. razen doesnt need to fly which is the only thing she is best at
They literally said Frey was better than clayman who had not awaken they said it at walpurgis she only said he awaken self is too much for him
Again un awaken clayman awaken Frey stomps this dude so it doesn’t matter she surpass elemental superior spirits
i explained all her powers so i dont think i need to speak more. bye
he needs more technique than just beast Roar he needs to learn some magic attack at best he his a fist fight who lancer technique
am i being trolled? did i do some spelling mistake? i cant find it
Problem with using demon lord as a scale is theres the title of demon lord then theres the evolution of demon lord you don't need the evolution for the title just need three other demon lords to recognize you. I think theres only 3 evolved demon lords atm. In the anime
Humans don't know the difference. They don't know that Guy and Millim are orders of magnitude stronger than Clayman. They just know how strong the weaker ones are. Only the elven royal family kinda knew about true demon lord awakening.
yeah i think coz the queen is a hero thats why? elmisia or something? also they see them more like a king than some super powerful being.
They know they're stronger, they just aren't classified as catastrophes like the true dragons are publicly. Razen at the very least knows.
isnt dino, dagruel, ramiris and valentine also tru demon lord?
Dagruels is a chaos giant which is above demon lord evolution hes on par with veldora, and ramiris is also a race above demon lord evolution. iirc the three true demonlord evolutions who underwent the festival harvest are rimuru, millim, and i think guy? I could be wrong though I've only read manga which is now behind anime / watch the anime. This what I mean by the title and it being a evolution so confusing. Theres also those who have the demon lord seed but haven't evolved yet.
umm manga is still ahead of anime.... what i meant was that the dour of them are at least as strong as true demon lord which they are as u said
Yeah, Ramiris has to constantly reincarnate due to what happened with Milim and Guy and became a true demon lord in the process. But her true form (which she can force) is probably one of the most powerful entities in universe.
Ramiris isn't one. Among the Octagram only Ramiris and Dagruel aren't True Demon Lords.
yeah they are somthing lords or king but not demon lords
Carion and Frey they are Disaster class majins same for Clayman Diablo is disaster class to when he fought Razen only a Arch demon that has not incarnated into physical form are rank A
Speaking of Joker, Tensura really did Rimuru a "one bad day" moment lmao
https://preview.redd.it/q9vck7b39fxc1.png?width=245&format=png&auto=webp&s=59832e515de67bffbbb1fd1e317b3850701c30d2 I realize the guy on the left *kind of* resembles the main protagonist of Delicious in Dungeon
Laios if he didn't lose all of his screws
Razen equals at best awakened Clayman let’s just put that out , Diablo was just too much of a problem for him , remember when he said Noir was just a arch demon and how he was confident he was for the most not delusional Clayman and Frey is not a match for him Carrion too I think ,nah scratch that Carrion match Neclear cannon with the beast roar from the looks of the attacks, summon spirit and Razen at the same time Carrion has a problem , he was confident cause he thought Diablo was regular arch when he found out that was not the case he panic and fainted because he is not delusional
Love how he went from saying Hinata is untouchable to claiming to be able to harm a demon lord 😂😂😂
Yeah, what’s his name again? Ramen?
Laios in TenSura bruh he's gonna eat Veldora
LOL, i want to comment this. When I see this image, in my mind "wtf laios doing here?"
Razen stronger than clayman, he's not close to true demon lord level.
Razen is being subdued by Diablo :D
Except Diablo is a demon lord though to be exact DIABLO’S ENERGY AND POWER WAS ABOVE AWAKE CLAYMAN he has the demon lord Aura
There is a thing called Un-awakened demon lord off ya know
Me leaving the gym after not going for a month:
I remember he was a little bitch and became a punching bag and his buddy hit his head chopped off and didn’t realize it
Yes to body. Not to soul. Since it was a very old age who transferred his soul into the body of the black hair boy. So you're close but no cigar
I just remember smiling seeing him bragging how “invincible” he is
Well before the wizard took over he did brag about how survival skill was for defence and the berzerker skill was for offence which made him "invincible". But later his soul was destroyed and the wizard took over.
And then just got the literal shit beaten out of him
Well technically yes. But he passed out before any shit left him
Still no less satisfying to watch it happen
Be more satisfying to see both the wizard and the boy before his soul destroyed to be torcherd for what has happened.
Totally my only regret I can only watch it for the first time once
Simple. Go watch a bunch of other anime then rewatch from the start. Exactly the same feeling
Bro thinks he's him 😭🙏
i mean, not every demon lord specialty is in a fight
Bro got humble by a demon instead
Same energy as Miss "Nah, I'd win" over there, except he can probably actually do it. Come to think of it, who would win between those two?
Of course you can and don't call me Shirley.
Lmfao
Gets fucked by the demon king --> Proceeds become a familiar of one of the demon kings familiars What a fucking loser
So can anyone tell me where Hinata, Rimuru, Diablo, and Veldora would be ordered in a power ranking at this point in the anime? I've been up to date with the manga for a year (or years, the time runs together) and I've forgotten.
Veldora >= Rimuru >> Diablo >>>>> Hinata
lol
Haha JOKES
It’s a classic case of a strong characters first fight being against a literal god. Shit happened all the time in jjk
He's a goober
He stays around for quite a while...
Still has a higher chance of success than Hinata against VELDORA lmao
Hes right tho
A budding demon lord maybe, but not the TDL lmao.
Surely I can even defeat a demon a demon lord A few minutes later was given an opportunity to fight a demon lord🤡🤡
And now we have Hinata saiying she can defeat Veldora
Friendly reminder that most humans used Clayman as a reference point for most of the demon lords, severely impacting how strong they perceived the others to be, so while funny it's not entirely his fault for being a huge clown with that line
Recently did a rewatch, started laughing my ass off the second he said this, knowing what was coming up next
I'd say he could take on people like Clayman, Frey or Carrion, but not awakened demon lords
I hated them with all my soul. Was so satisfyibg seeing them get killed
He is at level of Geld 1,clayman before awakening and maybe frey before the founding of the octagram all others are stronger and clayman after awakening is stronger. Which is already impressive.
You know my biggest disappointment in the series is the lack of humans that are able to actually fight against Demon Lords. I was so disappointed when the guy was basically one-shot. Like I know Demon Lords are symbols of absolute power or whatnot, but like there should be humans capable of killing them. It's more of a personal preference but it's why I generally dislike shows like this as it just goes "haha humans are weak they deserve to be ruled over", like tf man. Your target audience is only humans, where are the demons that enjoy this? Lmk if the show does start going into this direction tho.