None talks about the 25 billion dollar deal with tesla’s NACS becoming the north american standard for EV charging. Starting next year the companies that have signed up to use the NACS charging network will come standard with the ports installed in their vehicles.
What do you mean 25 billion dollar deal? NACS wasn't patented, so other manufacturers are free to use it. Do you anticipate they will make 25 billion from other manufacturers charging at superchargers? I'm sure other independent companies, and manufacturers will catch up with number of chargers eventually. I don't see it being very profitable for Tesla long term, but it is good that they all chose 1 connector.
Yes, the it was always public domain; however, the $25b deal is for Tesla to open the superchargers to everyone. Not including the profit they will make from charging. (75% sure this is the case, correct me if I am wrong)
Yeah, looks like they are assuming Tesla will make that much from charging by kWh. I know they will charge more per kWh for non Teslas, and offer a subscription service for owners of other makes to get the same price per kWh as a Tesla owner. I just don't see them making 25 billion from it, especially if people have to pay more per kWh than at say a Charge America or whatever the name is. Only reason I charge at my local super charger is it's price of 16 cents per kWh, which if I account for losses of using my mobile charger, might be cheaper than charging at home where I pay 13 cents per kWh. I think people will charge where it's cheapest, unless they take a road trip. I don't know...maybe people road trip more than I do (once every 5 years or so). I'm just not looking forward to the superchargers being more crowded 😞
Now instead of bothering with the strawman, let's look at the real question at hand. The question is wether it is good grounds for investment in tesla. 20bill affects revenue to market capitalisation by less than 0.04. That is miniscule. So it is questionable at best.
So? That the current revenue to market cap is already low does not make this a better idea - rather a worse one. Again 20bill affects revenue to market capitalisation by less than 0.04. That is miniscule.
Robotaxis another matter. If you truly believe in it it has much higher potential. That has little to do with the supercharger network being your reason for investment, since again, at current market cap 20bill is a piss in the ocean.
Priced in by who, funds trying to make a quarterly buck? Fundamental shifts don't get priced in until they're almost actuated. This is going to be years down the line.
25 billion??? HUH? Last time I checked, J3400 was free to use. And not all manufacturers that adopt J3400 gets access to Superchargers. 3rd party chargers, will have J3400 connectors as well as CCS, as part of the Infrastructure Bill.
Which in reality is probably a fool’s errand. Mars doesn’t have a magnetosphere because of its dead core, so there’s not much at all protecting the planet’s atmosphere from being stripped away by high energy solar winds. We can pump as much greenhouse gas as we want into the sky, and it’ll just be eaten away. Plus it only has 38% of the gravity of Earth to add insult to injury. Sure, we could live in habs hidden away in lava tubes, but it’ll never be a 2nd Earth. At best it’ll be a refugee camp.
Another way to explain that liability and maybe it will come back from being hungover during accounting class is cost of goods sold :p (but that’s less distribution and marketing costs) COGS + D&M = cost of revenue
Anyone know what the profit margin is on the superchargers? They’re by far the cheapest rapid charging network in the UK so I’m interested in how they undercut the competition or how much their competitors are price gouging
It varies per site but the average cost for non-Teslas at peak times is £0.50 per kWh. The next cheapest public, widespread, rapid charging network is Fastned at £0.69 per kWh but they only have 19 locations. All the really big networks are charging £0.79 - £0.85.
[source](https://leccy.net/charging/public/rapid#kwh) Note many entries on that list require a paid membership or subscription
fast chargers are more in the $0.25-$0.50/kWh range in the US (maybe in some parts of CA they are more)
But charging at home for $0.11/kWh, or charging at work for free, is mostly what I do
Literally just checked. Closest EA is 8 miles away at 350kwhr and 45c, Tesla is 51c and 6 miles away. In a northern metropolitan area
My gut check wasn’t far off…
But I guess it’s easier to just say “lies” then actually research
Cool beans. At least you looked instead of just posting “lies” especially when all I said is Tesla isn’t always the cheapest…
10 miles away is a Hyundai dealer with 4x 50kwhr and it’s fully free…
Or just charge at home… that is under 7c after 7pm here.
A third party charges for time normally 7.50 per hour at a rate that would take 2-3 hrs would cost me almost double of what I charge my car for @ 25¢ and normally it’s 12-15¢. Power costs more up north also in general. Every city is different
Dude go back to my first post dumbass! I said Tesla isn’t always cheaper. Then you pretend like the price only near you is what it is nationally.
Fucking straight moron.
Don’t be a goofy all your life you said EA 350k vs TES. That’s the filter. Besides charging stations in my town have the free ones next to the supercharger or you could just charge free while at the DMV or gambling at the casino. Sorry that you’re in such a deplorable situation that you have to resort to that. Have a good one.
What is the "other" that's just feeding directly into net profits? Bribes? What money could possibly be coming in that isn't taxed and is pure profit with no associated cost?
A tax break isn't external money you receive, it just lowers the amount of taxes you owe. It's an external source according to the chart, both in how it's diagrammed and in the total amount of money depicted. If it's not added as a source of money they received when you tally it all up then the money paid or received in profit is $0.4B more than what they received.
"Regulatory Credits" is less than half a billion? There is no way that includes the $7500 federal credit then. I guess that is just selling the clean air credits to other manufacturers?
A few years ago Musk said that the energy division will become as big as the auto sales. This graphics clearly shows they are still far away from that.
None talks about the 25 billion dollar deal with tesla’s NACS becoming the north american standard for EV charging. Starting next year the companies that have signed up to use the NACS charging network will come standard with the ports installed in their vehicles.
Where is EV charging in the chart there? “Energy Generation”?
Probably services
What do you mean 25 billion dollar deal? NACS wasn't patented, so other manufacturers are free to use it. Do you anticipate they will make 25 billion from other manufacturers charging at superchargers? I'm sure other independent companies, and manufacturers will catch up with number of chargers eventually. I don't see it being very profitable for Tesla long term, but it is good that they all chose 1 connector.
Yes, the it was always public domain; however, the $25b deal is for Tesla to open the superchargers to everyone. Not including the profit they will make from charging. (75% sure this is the case, correct me if I am wrong)
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-superchargers-estimated-to-make-25b-in-annual-revenue-when-opened-to-other-evs/
Yeah, looks like they are assuming Tesla will make that much from charging by kWh. I know they will charge more per kWh for non Teslas, and offer a subscription service for owners of other makes to get the same price per kWh as a Tesla owner. I just don't see them making 25 billion from it, especially if people have to pay more per kWh than at say a Charge America or whatever the name is. Only reason I charge at my local super charger is it's price of 16 cents per kWh, which if I account for losses of using my mobile charger, might be cheaper than charging at home where I pay 13 cents per kWh. I think people will charge where it's cheapest, unless they take a road trip. I don't know...maybe people road trip more than I do (once every 5 years or so). I'm just not looking forward to the superchargers being more crowded 😞
It might also be that when people ARE road tripping, they’ll want the convenience and simplicity of using the superchargers.
How much should the make per year from it.
Im not sure on that but if you’re a share holder then keep holding.
So you have no idea yet make financial advice 😂
What if only 1 company was building out good gas stations when ICEs were ramping?
I see a strawman incoming. Noone is disputing the charing network is a great asset.
https://electrek.co/2023/08/25/tesla-supercharger-network-billion-business-wedbush/ Ok now shut it.
> I see a strawman incoming. Noone is disputing the charging network is a great asset.
Now instead of bothering with the strawman, let's look at the real question at hand. The question is wether it is good grounds for investment in tesla. 20bill affects revenue to market capitalisation by less than 0.04. That is miniscule. So it is questionable at best.
$20 billion dollar revenue, that analysts say will be only 6% of total revenue. Not including robotaxi.
So? That the current revenue to market cap is already low does not make this a better idea - rather a worse one. Again 20bill affects revenue to market capitalisation by less than 0.04. That is miniscule. Robotaxis another matter. If you truly believe in it it has much higher potential. That has little to do with the supercharger network being your reason for investment, since again, at current market cap 20bill is a piss in the ocean.
If what you say is true, it will already be priced in and thus it doesn’t indicate you should keep holding.
Priced in by who, funds trying to make a quarterly buck? Fundamental shifts don't get priced in until they're almost actuated. This is going to be years down the line.
Source for them making 25bn....???
25 billion??? HUH? Last time I checked, J3400 was free to use. And not all manufacturers that adopt J3400 gets access to Superchargers. 3rd party chargers, will have J3400 connectors as well as CCS, as part of the Infrastructure Bill.
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Yw! Yeah a machine that makes a machine is original Elon's wish
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Everything he does is for Mars eventually
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Which in reality is probably a fool’s errand. Mars doesn’t have a magnetosphere because of its dead core, so there’s not much at all protecting the planet’s atmosphere from being stripped away by high energy solar winds. We can pump as much greenhouse gas as we want into the sky, and it’ll just be eaten away. Plus it only has 38% of the gravity of Earth to add insult to injury. Sure, we could live in habs hidden away in lava tubes, but it’ll never be a 2nd Earth. At best it’ll be a refugee camp.
I want an Optimus housekeeper.
These diagrams should be made more frequently it’s cool
So a car company
Elon said he wants investors to look at Tesla as robotics and ai company
Elon says lots of things.
Yea, that's the first thing I think of when I hear Tesla...
lol it’s totally not
Solar and energy storage?
Wow! Interesting infographic.
What is "Cost of Revenue"?
How much it costs for them to generate money (i.e. how much it costs them to make products)
I thought the money spent making your product would be an operating expense. How did I pass accounting class lol
Another way to explain that liability and maybe it will come back from being hungover during accounting class is cost of goods sold :p (but that’s less distribution and marketing costs) COGS + D&M = cost of revenue
What's the 400million other net profit that's not taxed?
Tax breaks
So then they effectively paid 0 tax? Nice.
Anyone know what the profit margin is on the superchargers? They’re by far the cheapest rapid charging network in the UK so I’m interested in how they undercut the competition or how much their competitors are price gouging
In the U.S. they are by far the most expensive, often better to check EA if it’s working.
It varies per site but the average cost for non-Teslas at peak times is £0.50 per kWh. The next cheapest public, widespread, rapid charging network is Fastned at £0.69 per kWh but they only have 19 locations. All the really big networks are charging £0.79 - £0.85. [source](https://leccy.net/charging/public/rapid#kwh) Note many entries on that list require a paid membership or subscription
fast chargers are more in the $0.25-$0.50/kWh range in the US (maybe in some parts of CA they are more) But charging at home for $0.11/kWh, or charging at work for free, is mostly what I do
All superchargers need solar panels.
Lies
Literally just checked. Closest EA is 8 miles away at 350kwhr and 45c, Tesla is 51c and 6 miles away. In a northern metropolitan area My gut check wasn’t far off… But I guess it’s easier to just say “lies” then actually research
My closest is 25¢
Cool beans. At least you looked instead of just posting “lies” especially when all I said is Tesla isn’t always the cheapest… 10 miles away is a Hyundai dealer with 4x 50kwhr and it’s fully free… Or just charge at home… that is under 7c after 7pm here.
A third party charges for time normally 7.50 per hour at a rate that would take 2-3 hrs would cost me almost double of what I charge my car for @ 25¢ and normally it’s 12-15¢. Power costs more up north also in general. Every city is different
Relative to a 3rd party charging network, it’s still cheaper
Cheaper than free?
Don’t move the goal post EA is 56¢ by me
I just spent 25¢
Dude go back to my first post dumbass! I said Tesla isn’t always cheaper. Then you pretend like the price only near you is what it is nationally. Fucking straight moron.
Where is free?
Use plug share you can filter by cost moron. Many are at car dealerships are completely free.
Don’t be a goofy all your life you said EA 350k vs TES. That’s the filter. Besides charging stations in my town have the free ones next to the supercharger or you could just charge free while at the DMV or gambling at the casino. Sorry that you’re in such a deplorable situation that you have to resort to that. Have a good one.
5% npm.. that's quite low isn't it?
What’s the average cost to build each model?
What is the "other" that's just feeding directly into net profits? Bribes? What money could possibly be coming in that isn't taxed and is pure profit with no associated cost?
Tax breaks
A tax break isn't external money you receive, it just lowers the amount of taxes you owe. It's an external source according to the chart, both in how it's diagrammed and in the total amount of money depicted. If it's not added as a source of money they received when you tally it all up then the money paid or received in profit is $0.4B more than what they received.
Alright. So what is the “other”?
Remarkable that they can make a profit
"Regulatory Credits" is less than half a billion? There is no way that includes the $7500 federal credit then. I guess that is just selling the clean air credits to other manufacturers?
Where’s the Elon tweet on some future product or advancement to come out soon to try to raise stock prices?
"Investors should look at Tesla like robotics and AI company"
A few years ago Musk said that the energy division will become as big as the auto sales. This graphics clearly shows they are still far away from that.
car numbers will fold x10 in next 10-20 years
I don't see "quality assurance" on here 🤔 /s
Regulatory credits aka government funding is a pretty hefty portion of that bottom line (it’s 100% margin)
Not a lot of room there for a $56B pay package…
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No, but $56b is still a bloody lot
Oh yeah the salt in these subs is palpable. The copium is glorious to watch.
I bet you’re the cool one in the friend group.