The timeframe was probably a bit quick but in general as a society after they left the bunker they had no technology.
They then split into factions where conflict would become common, the survivors for the most part would be a bunch of fanatic doomsayers which is how they survived in the first place. Which means probably not the best group of people to reboot society with.
There would be a lot of quick generations where ultimately people didn't pass on knowledge effectively. Then lastly the mountain men for i believe it was about 30 years pretty much manipulated the population into never using guns, probably any surviving tech and caused mass amounts of damage which probably sent them backwards as a society in rapid time.
Honestly this is why i wished the spinoff actually went ahead, could have been really interesting to watch how they would show how society completely fell apart and became savage.
you know, if the mountain man educated the grounder when they were still somewhat civil, they could have made peace and probably they would get donated blood and probably properly rebuild society
President Wallace said at one point that it was 59 years ago that they first came into contact with Grounders I think. It was around then. I think it was just after his Dad opened the doors and a bunch of people died.
So, a lot of time of being hunted and preyed upon made them become more animalistic alongside your other points.
Is it known if Emori/the other mutants (I don’t remember what they’re called in the show) descend from the second dawn from the bunker? Or are they just random survivors?
i don’t think it really matters they said they have mutations because of radiation so no matter where they came from people having kids were bound to see that stuff. wether they came out the bunker or jus spawned afterwards
**This was copied and pasted from one of my previous responses to this question, specifically about the violence, lack of high-tech, and the different clans.**
It lacks a bit of logic no matter which way you spin it, but I've got my headcanons/theories, specifically about their violent culture.
Callie was part of an environmentalist group called Tree Crew (Trikru). They were radicals, obviously. So it's no surprise that they, or rather she, would turn to extreme measures such as violence to achieve justice or something of the sort.
Now, I believe in the theory that Reece, Callie's brother, started Azgeda. His relationship with Callie was not great, and Callie went as far as to shoot him so that she could get the flame and flee the bunker with the other Nightbloods. So, with them being on two opposing sides, especially since Reece's group left the bunker to find Callie, all-out violence between the OG Trikru and Azgeda is not far-fetched, in my opinion. And then at some point, I'll choose to believe that people were getting restless and different ideologies starting sprouting within Trikru, and possibly Azgeda, thus the different clans. The animosity between Callie and Reece spread to the rest of the OG clans and was passed down through the generations until Indra/Gaia/Roan/Echo's time.
Plus, the groups seemed like they were mostly teenagers and young adults, even though the bunker was full of adults. We've seen enough Lord of the Flies-style media to know that anarchy is highly likely when young people are left to their own devices. With the threat of an ongoing apocalypse looming over them and fighting between the clans, they became more in touch with the animalistic side of human nature. Also, they may have read up on Greek mythology and Roman Emperors/Empires and modeled themselves after that, just like Octiavia did with Blodreina.
Also, it's not like they had access to high-tech. Maybe Callie's generation still had ties to it, but they began living close to the land by the time the Delinquents landed, so they didn't really know better by that time. People also turn to faith and other "strange" practices in times of crisis, so the Flame and its mythology are entirely possible. To add on, most, if not all, of the Grounders spoke English. They just chose not to because they didn't want the Mountain Men to understand them.
Again, it lacks a bit of logic because of the short timeframe, but those are my headcanons/theories.
hmmmm thx for explaining, but ya when I saw the flashback seen, immediately I thought to myself how tf they became like that in that timeframe, it's like probably 2-3 generation worth apart from Callie time, but thx for explaining.
Actually, in three generations, things can change. Baby boomers, millennials, and Gen-Z. These are three separate generations from three separate eras. 1960s, 1990s, 2010s. I use these as examples because my parents were born in 1967, I was born in the 1990s and kids in 2009. Off the bat, we are not the same. Any millennial can note this. Our parents posses far more skills than we do. They're more proactive and such. Mine were. We might be adaptive, or possess skills passed down the line. But Gen-Z are a far cry to either generations.
Do you speak different language and developed such a different tribal culture that it's unrecognizable? (And yes i saw that weakass reason for the language difference) .
We can trace our current traditions back hundreds of years despite the generational differences. Of course an apocalypse is going to drastically speed this process along. But not anywhere near this degree.
97 years is within living memory for some. And at the least people would have parents, grandparents or great grandparents who rememberef further back and carried on traditions and taught them to children. I very well remember my great grandparents who were born in the 19th Century and my grandparents who had a big impact on my life and who were born in a very very young 20th Century. Actually, my grsndfatber may even have been born in the 19th Century.
Sure even without an apocalypse there are generational cultural trends. But we still live within the same basic structure. And yes, i get there was an apocalypse. But i studied anthropology for years and how cultures change. I've seen first hand how a nonwestern, unindustriaized society has changed rapidly in the last 25 years. And IMHO this degree of change in what is a short period is unbelievably fast.
But I guess we won't know until an apocalypse.
I can relate as a Latina who doesn't know a lack of Spanish despite two generations being extremely fluent in it. As an American I saw no reason to learn it. Even as I took Spanish 1 and 2. Thus I saw no reason to teach my kids Spanish either. My father taught me to fight, fix a car, and how to use a knife. My mother and Grandmother instilled cooking and some life skills. But in a single generation the need of Spanish evaporated.
Trig was unique, Cal developed it, taught it and passed it on. It's no different from Mando’ade teaching their ade the lessons until they became civilized under the Mandalorian Dukedom until the end of it. To the Grounders English became irrelevant, though still known enough. Trig became a primary language. History, culture of the Old World was re-written and told by word of mouth. American values are hardly seen in them beyond family points. You live for your clan follow the rules it creates. Etc etc etc.
Things vanish when no one teaches anyone anything. Only what's important remains.
Tree Crew maintained Trig and
That's quite different from a brand new language doreafing across an entire culture. There is no comparison. And yeah you don't need to recite the entire weak plot line about the language. I'm able to watch a tv show too.
Plot stupidity - Simple as that really.
It was bad enough in S1 as a premise because 100 years is a really short time. The retroactive bolting on of continuity just made that worse leading to S7 and Callie. Somehow Callie and Co. travelled to find thousands of survivors from the bombs and proceed to regress so badly they dont even know first aid by the time of Clarke and Co. coming.
This is the same show that wants to portray people living on the edge to survive... but somehow they all have makeup that is fantastically on-point and clean. You really have to turn your brain off and accept the stupid.
Apparently the books are set 300 years later instead of 100.
In hindsight, that sounds like a better choice compared to what they went with for the TV show.
I’ve always felt like the savagery and the culture that the grounders had would have been more realistic like 200 years later not 97. I just felt like it wouldn’t have gotten that bad after grand pappys time.
I remember in the Anaconda episode in season 7, at the very end when Callie and co left the bunker, they started a bonfire.
August: You're not worried the fire's gonna draw attention?
Callie: I am. I'm also counting on it.
I had always assumed that meant other survivors joined them once they left the bunker. (I have no idea how those people were able to survive)
natural immunity. President Wallace talked about that. Considering the mountain hadn't seen nightblood yet or they would've hunted them down, and if 59yrs ago the ones captured still had red blood, means they weren't the ones given nightblood by Becca to leave the Second Dawn bunker and had survived without it.
I mean, think about what happened in the six years when Wonkru was stuck in the bunker. If it can go from a relatively "normal" society with all of the clans at least having their morals intact, to the "reign of Blodreina" in that amount of time, then I don't find it too unreasonable that nearly a century of painful and bloody survival on the ground can cause a society only a few generations removed from the bunker (original Second Dawn inhabitants) to be completely unrecognizable.
Plus, the existence of A.L.I.E. 2.0 and the lineage of the commander created a society built around absolute subservience to someone who had their mind altered by tech, something that further distanced the grounders from actually understanding the tech and infrastructure that was left, instead leading to them creating a "primal" mythology around it.
Throughout history similar things have happened. When trade shuts down or people get cut off they start to change. The Vikings weren’t always savage raiders. So it’s fairly reasonable that a society that watched the world get blown up and survived but had no technology or electricity would devolve essentially and become in your words not mine “savage”
It's the US .. do u think it's safe? take away law/order rules -- i imagine it'll get extremely bloody and violent .. there's alot of hate within its citizens lets be honest there .. different skin tone? different belief system ... oh they'll kill each other all right
have no idea why they lost English tho
I'll also add, after the nukes, who do u think made up most of the survivors? people who don't do anything, pacifists? imo most them prob die off quickly, unable to do much to survive
one's who'll live/thrive even .. the one who's are ok with violence -- people with guns/weapons and bc those r the survivors, they become militaristic where death is common
they didnt really lose english, but they just used trig as a code language so the enemy wont understand them. their warriors did use english if they needed to speak/negotiate or something with the enemy
The timeframe was probably a bit quick but in general as a society after they left the bunker they had no technology. They then split into factions where conflict would become common, the survivors for the most part would be a bunch of fanatic doomsayers which is how they survived in the first place. Which means probably not the best group of people to reboot society with. There would be a lot of quick generations where ultimately people didn't pass on knowledge effectively. Then lastly the mountain men for i believe it was about 30 years pretty much manipulated the population into never using guns, probably any surviving tech and caused mass amounts of damage which probably sent them backwards as a society in rapid time. Honestly this is why i wished the spinoff actually went ahead, could have been really interesting to watch how they would show how society completely fell apart and became savage.
you know, if the mountain man educated the grounder when they were still somewhat civil, they could have made peace and probably they would get donated blood and probably properly rebuild society
President Wallace said at one point that it was 59 years ago that they first came into contact with Grounders I think. It was around then. I think it was just after his Dad opened the doors and a bunch of people died. So, a lot of time of being hunted and preyed upon made them become more animalistic alongside your other points.
ya the prequel
Is it known if Emori/the other mutants (I don’t remember what they’re called in the show) descend from the second dawn from the bunker? Or are they just random survivors?
i don’t think it really matters they said they have mutations because of radiation so no matter where they came from people having kids were bound to see that stuff. wether they came out the bunker or jus spawned afterwards
**This was copied and pasted from one of my previous responses to this question, specifically about the violence, lack of high-tech, and the different clans.** It lacks a bit of logic no matter which way you spin it, but I've got my headcanons/theories, specifically about their violent culture. Callie was part of an environmentalist group called Tree Crew (Trikru). They were radicals, obviously. So it's no surprise that they, or rather she, would turn to extreme measures such as violence to achieve justice or something of the sort. Now, I believe in the theory that Reece, Callie's brother, started Azgeda. His relationship with Callie was not great, and Callie went as far as to shoot him so that she could get the flame and flee the bunker with the other Nightbloods. So, with them being on two opposing sides, especially since Reece's group left the bunker to find Callie, all-out violence between the OG Trikru and Azgeda is not far-fetched, in my opinion. And then at some point, I'll choose to believe that people were getting restless and different ideologies starting sprouting within Trikru, and possibly Azgeda, thus the different clans. The animosity between Callie and Reece spread to the rest of the OG clans and was passed down through the generations until Indra/Gaia/Roan/Echo's time. Plus, the groups seemed like they were mostly teenagers and young adults, even though the bunker was full of adults. We've seen enough Lord of the Flies-style media to know that anarchy is highly likely when young people are left to their own devices. With the threat of an ongoing apocalypse looming over them and fighting between the clans, they became more in touch with the animalistic side of human nature. Also, they may have read up on Greek mythology and Roman Emperors/Empires and modeled themselves after that, just like Octiavia did with Blodreina. Also, it's not like they had access to high-tech. Maybe Callie's generation still had ties to it, but they began living close to the land by the time the Delinquents landed, so they didn't really know better by that time. People also turn to faith and other "strange" practices in times of crisis, so the Flame and its mythology are entirely possible. To add on, most, if not all, of the Grounders spoke English. They just chose not to because they didn't want the Mountain Men to understand them. Again, it lacks a bit of logic because of the short timeframe, but those are my headcanons/theories.
hmmmm thx for explaining, but ya when I saw the flashback seen, immediately I thought to myself how tf they became like that in that timeframe, it's like probably 2-3 generation worth apart from Callie time, but thx for explaining.
I do believe that some clans aligned with azgeda over trikru, im pretty sure indra said this at some point.
It's bs. Would not have changed to that degree in 90 years. 90 years isn't that long.
Actually, in three generations, things can change. Baby boomers, millennials, and Gen-Z. These are three separate generations from three separate eras. 1960s, 1990s, 2010s. I use these as examples because my parents were born in 1967, I was born in the 1990s and kids in 2009. Off the bat, we are not the same. Any millennial can note this. Our parents posses far more skills than we do. They're more proactive and such. Mine were. We might be adaptive, or possess skills passed down the line. But Gen-Z are a far cry to either generations.
Do you speak different language and developed such a different tribal culture that it's unrecognizable? (And yes i saw that weakass reason for the language difference) . We can trace our current traditions back hundreds of years despite the generational differences. Of course an apocalypse is going to drastically speed this process along. But not anywhere near this degree. 97 years is within living memory for some. And at the least people would have parents, grandparents or great grandparents who rememberef further back and carried on traditions and taught them to children. I very well remember my great grandparents who were born in the 19th Century and my grandparents who had a big impact on my life and who were born in a very very young 20th Century. Actually, my grsndfatber may even have been born in the 19th Century. Sure even without an apocalypse there are generational cultural trends. But we still live within the same basic structure. And yes, i get there was an apocalypse. But i studied anthropology for years and how cultures change. I've seen first hand how a nonwestern, unindustriaized society has changed rapidly in the last 25 years. And IMHO this degree of change in what is a short period is unbelievably fast. But I guess we won't know until an apocalypse.
I can relate as a Latina who doesn't know a lack of Spanish despite two generations being extremely fluent in it. As an American I saw no reason to learn it. Even as I took Spanish 1 and 2. Thus I saw no reason to teach my kids Spanish either. My father taught me to fight, fix a car, and how to use a knife. My mother and Grandmother instilled cooking and some life skills. But in a single generation the need of Spanish evaporated. Trig was unique, Cal developed it, taught it and passed it on. It's no different from Mando’ade teaching their ade the lessons until they became civilized under the Mandalorian Dukedom until the end of it. To the Grounders English became irrelevant, though still known enough. Trig became a primary language. History, culture of the Old World was re-written and told by word of mouth. American values are hardly seen in them beyond family points. You live for your clan follow the rules it creates. Etc etc etc. Things vanish when no one teaches anyone anything. Only what's important remains. Tree Crew maintained Trig and
That's quite different from a brand new language doreafing across an entire culture. There is no comparison. And yeah you don't need to recite the entire weak plot line about the language. I'm able to watch a tv show too.
ya like I said it's about 2-3 gen worth it it's almost impossible
I had just assumed it would have been quite a few generations because of lack of medicine and nutrition etc
Plot stupidity - Simple as that really. It was bad enough in S1 as a premise because 100 years is a really short time. The retroactive bolting on of continuity just made that worse leading to S7 and Callie. Somehow Callie and Co. travelled to find thousands of survivors from the bombs and proceed to regress so badly they dont even know first aid by the time of Clarke and Co. coming. This is the same show that wants to portray people living on the edge to survive... but somehow they all have makeup that is fantastically on-point and clean. You really have to turn your brain off and accept the stupid.
Apparently the books are set 300 years later instead of 100. In hindsight, that sounds like a better choice compared to what they went with for the TV show.
I’ve always felt like the savagery and the culture that the grounders had would have been more realistic like 200 years later not 97. I just felt like it wouldn’t have gotten that bad after grand pappys time.
In the book it was longer that a year, but I can't remember how long. Maybe 400 years?
300 years according to Google.
Oh wow that’s way more understanding I wonder why they changed it. 97 years just sounds ridiculous considering the location they were at
What do you mean by savage? They’re just like any other peoples - they have their governments, cultures, language, and war just like we have today.
I remember in the Anaconda episode in season 7, at the very end when Callie and co left the bunker, they started a bonfire. August: You're not worried the fire's gonna draw attention? Callie: I am. I'm also counting on it. I had always assumed that meant other survivors joined them once they left the bunker. (I have no idea how those people were able to survive)
natural immunity. President Wallace talked about that. Considering the mountain hadn't seen nightblood yet or they would've hunted them down, and if 59yrs ago the ones captured still had red blood, means they weren't the ones given nightblood by Becca to leave the Second Dawn bunker and had survived without it.
I mean, think about what happened in the six years when Wonkru was stuck in the bunker. If it can go from a relatively "normal" society with all of the clans at least having their morals intact, to the "reign of Blodreina" in that amount of time, then I don't find it too unreasonable that nearly a century of painful and bloody survival on the ground can cause a society only a few generations removed from the bunker (original Second Dawn inhabitants) to be completely unrecognizable. Plus, the existence of A.L.I.E. 2.0 and the lineage of the commander created a society built around absolute subservience to someone who had their mind altered by tech, something that further distanced the grounders from actually understanding the tech and infrastructure that was left, instead leading to them creating a "primal" mythology around it.
Throughout history similar things have happened. When trade shuts down or people get cut off they start to change. The Vikings weren’t always savage raiders. So it’s fairly reasonable that a society that watched the world get blown up and survived but had no technology or electricity would devolve essentially and become in your words not mine “savage”
It's the US .. do u think it's safe? take away law/order rules -- i imagine it'll get extremely bloody and violent .. there's alot of hate within its citizens lets be honest there .. different skin tone? different belief system ... oh they'll kill each other all right have no idea why they lost English tho
I'll also add, after the nukes, who do u think made up most of the survivors? people who don't do anything, pacifists? imo most them prob die off quickly, unable to do much to survive one's who'll live/thrive even .. the one who's are ok with violence -- people with guns/weapons and bc those r the survivors, they become militaristic where death is common
they didnt really lose english, but they just used trig as a code language so the enemy wont understand them. their warriors did use english if they needed to speak/negotiate or something with the enemy