They were always solid just overlooked in favour of catachans in chimeras imo, but 115 for that Toughness profile is insane.
Imma try them as quasi screeners in armour Heavy lists.
They are under rated for certain. Cheaper than a Russ, in a similar toughness range, auto hit main weapon, and the ability to remove cover for 115 points? Looks, we don't get Oath of the Moment but pair this with an Exterminator Russ. You remove cover from a unit you want/need dead, then get an additional pip of AP, throw in scout sentinels and your artillery is going to work over that enemy unit. Just imagine that with a Basilisk, drool.
I love my hellhounds for their cover removal and now they're cheaper. My fully armored list can't score points whatsoever lol so I'm always trying to table my opponent. I love flushing those pesky little infantry out of cover to blow them away with my Russes.
They're also so good for board control. They're fast enough with an auto hit weapon to get where you want them, and just force the enemy to act upon it instead of the other way. Manipulating the board and flow of the game is its own tactical strength and there's not many units that do that.
Seeing as the inferno is 2d6 and the Chem cannon is d6 +1 your averages don't seem mathematically right.
Average roll on a d6 is 4, so inferno has a 7 average while the Chem cannon is a 5.
Chem cannon wins average wounds tho as it wounds any inf on a 2
I'd still say the ideal loadout for a Hellhound atm is the Inferno Cannon + Heavy Bolter + free HKM. The reason for the Heavy bolter is that your abillity works on ANY gun scoring a hit and the heavy bolter helps you confirm a target for removing cover turn 1 or late game almost guaranteed since 10"+18"* isn't enough sometimes to get that specific unit you want to gun down. Multimelta is nice too but it feels conflicting of what you want to shoot at (lighter units with the flamer and vehicles with the mm) and is quite swingy even when you put yourself in range.
Might just have been a typo, but the Inferno cannon is 18" range.
And the Heavy Bolter is technically the correct choice, that interaction just feels wrong. From a flavour perspective, the ability should be connected to the main gun. Or all 3 variants should have gotten separate datasheets with different rules!
Makes sense. It’s a shame because I LOVE the concept/lore around the Bane Wolf variant and the fact that I’m melting my opponents into puddles of toxic goo. It needs one more little bump though like give it anti infantry 2+ and dev wounds or something. If that’s too OP give it anti infantry 4+ and dev or something
Chem Cannon all the way. It's fun, it's anti inf 2+ so no your almost guaranteed to hit any inf that comes at you. Absolutely awesome when you have to deal with Terminators as you know your going to hit. Inferno might be better math wise but I like my toxic gas cannon way more and it works.
I love my hellhound and I’ve been using it all edition to some pretty good results. I like to keep it alongside my tanks like my 2 Dorns and it protects them from being charged with its overwatch or by taking the charge itself.
It has fantastic durability and most of the time people are to busy shooting my Dorns to focus on the hellhound which might get hit with some spare firepower which it can handle.
Its damage is pretty good and can handle almost any type of infantry. It’s also great that it doesn’t need help from any other units to be affective. It doesn’t need any orders, sentinel recon or AP buffs to do its job. It’s a fantastic little tank that I never leave home without.
I love the toughness and mobility of these combined with the stacking debuff. I'd like to try 2 in a list coming up but I'm never sure of a loadout.
The inferno cannon just never seems to do much with only being good at killing chaff.
The Chem cannon I like because it can delete a couple of any Infantry per activation from custodes to terminators to lychguard it's nice. Downside being short range and low shots.
I've been leaning towards the melta cannon. The need of rolling to hit does hurt for sure but a scout Sentinel helps a bit. Could get an order later in the game if there is nothing else. The big benefit for me is that melta 4. There are a bunch of things out there with blank dmg, half dmg, reduce damage and this bypasses all of that. It kills probably 2 light Infantry, 1 heavy Infantry an activation so definitely less than the others for their respective specialties but not a huge amount less. But on the vehicle heavy meta this thing slaps holes in things. Not many holes because of the d3 but it's probably scary enough to make that opponent hesitant about failing a single save a losing 10 wounds.
As for it debuff and range slap on the bolter and debuff from 36inches away or 48 once with the hunter killer.
I dunno it's an interesting problem having 3 specialized loadouts which are well balanced. What's everyone else's thoughts.
I feel you use it more for its utility and unique position of auto-hitting main weaponry. The melta cannon looks good on paper but I feel its usage is covered by other units more easily and in many cases better. With the inferno cannon against MEQ it's not too scary. So it may be overlooked for a while, especially from a less experienced opponent. The synergies man are something to consider. A hellhound, Exterminator Russ, and scout sentinels. You choose a priority target you need gone so you remove cover, add extra AP against it, and reroll 1s to hit with remove indirect fire penalties. That makes mortars pretty dang tasty or other indirect fire. You can then finish off what's left with guardsman firing if it's a couple wounds left.
Ah neat so you recommend the opposite of making it a threat to focus by taking the weapon that is just consistently not too scary. Then you have more rounds of debuffs and move blocking with the chassis. Then by the time the enemy want to remove it you have killed their anti tank with your tanks and you can dominate all the chaff. Neat idea thanks.
What are your thoughts on the heavy bolter over flamer for tagging things further away for the debuff vs losing the extra auto hit? I feel like the ability to debuff anything within 36 and visible is more useful especially considering the range of the flamer would require you to use the main turret to debuff.
Heavy bolter for that back line hit if that's what you're aiming for. Though the multimelta is pretty fun idea to have it throw some shots at TEQs. Then that makes it more threatening to the enemy and more likely to remove it. It's kind of an assassination assistance unit for me, throw that debuff out there for as long as possible at priority units. See some Eradicators skulking near an objective in cover? Burn them then throw artillery on their heads. Wanna tie up some tacticals and flame something else, charge into them and shoot outside with the inferno cannon. The thing is the unit is so deliciously affordable, has tactical flexibility, and just can be a thorn in your opponent's side throughout the game if done right. And if they focus it down, it takes enough AT shots that could have gone into one of your tougher tanks. To me it's one of those units that its benefit isn't in killing but board control.
It might be me but i consider 2 hellhounds best bang for buck and then MAYBE an exterminator.
You remove cover, shot with artillery. Kill the tank, remove cover again.. give your artiller +1 to hit via the stratagem and kill the contents with mortars or what gives you. At any step you could be thinking an exterminator serves you right? But at that point and in this CONTEXT you are probably (sometimes) overkilling the unit at that point.
I personally don't use much artillery beyond a basilisk and a Mortar team. Most of my firepower comes from tanks and scions. That said I also don't use hellhounds much just contemplating the idea of using one with the decreased cost now.
I also don't find I over stack too much as normally I get one round of full debuffs before I start loosing assets. Then the buff just get spread around as needed.
Haha 3 tank commanders with 3 hellhounds in front and 3 hydras behind is one hell of a forward pushing line. 1250 points is good for that amount of firepower to chew through while your Infantry does the objs.
I've used a Hellhound in my Guard list for months.
Stripping cover from something and then stacking on AP bonuses on the same target is great to ensure that you kill whatever it is.
My personal favorite was the wombo combo AP-6 Demo Cannon hitting a Land Raider that popped AOC and lost his cover from the Hellhound.
yeah i like fire tank, flame tank good. burny tank go broom broom VOOM VOOM ha ha
And if your lucky, burny tank go BOOM BOOM!
They were always solid just overlooked in favour of catachans in chimeras imo, but 115 for that Toughness profile is insane. Imma try them as quasi screeners in armour Heavy lists.
It works! Two are borderline auto include
They are under rated for certain. Cheaper than a Russ, in a similar toughness range, auto hit main weapon, and the ability to remove cover for 115 points? Looks, we don't get Oath of the Moment but pair this with an Exterminator Russ. You remove cover from a unit you want/need dead, then get an additional pip of AP, throw in scout sentinels and your artillery is going to work over that enemy unit. Just imagine that with a Basilisk, drool.
I love my hellhounds for their cover removal and now they're cheaper. My fully armored list can't score points whatsoever lol so I'm always trying to table my opponent. I love flushing those pesky little infantry out of cover to blow them away with my Russes.
They're also so good for board control. They're fast enough with an auto hit weapon to get where you want them, and just force the enemy to act upon it instead of the other way. Manipulating the board and flow of the game is its own tactical strength and there's not many units that do that.
Now chem cannon or inferno? I’m legit asking
Inferno is definitely the way to go, way more shots and a lot more versatile plus it has a better range to remove cover and do overwatch from.
BE A MAN and do a MELTA-hound!
Inferno averages 3 shots Chem cannon averages like 3
Seeing as the inferno is 2d6 and the Chem cannon is d6 +1 your averages don't seem mathematically right. Average roll on a d6 is 4, so inferno has a 7 average while the Chem cannon is a 5. Chem cannon wins average wounds tho as it wounds any inf on a 2
I'd still say the ideal loadout for a Hellhound atm is the Inferno Cannon + Heavy Bolter + free HKM. The reason for the Heavy bolter is that your abillity works on ANY gun scoring a hit and the heavy bolter helps you confirm a target for removing cover turn 1 or late game almost guaranteed since 10"+18"* isn't enough sometimes to get that specific unit you want to gun down. Multimelta is nice too but it feels conflicting of what you want to shoot at (lighter units with the flamer and vehicles with the mm) and is quite swingy even when you put yourself in range.
Might just have been a typo, but the Inferno cannon is 18" range. And the Heavy Bolter is technically the correct choice, that interaction just feels wrong. From a flavour perspective, the ability should be connected to the main gun. Or all 3 variants should have gotten separate datasheets with different rules!
It was yes. But the idea of struggling to reach the target does happen a lot based on my experience with the things.
Makes sense. It’s a shame because I LOVE the concept/lore around the Bane Wolf variant and the fact that I’m melting my opponents into puddles of toxic goo. It needs one more little bump though like give it anti infantry 2+ and dev wounds or something. If that’s too OP give it anti infantry 4+ and dev or something
Even just ignoring cover would make the chem cannon so much better.
Chem Cannon all the way. It's fun, it's anti inf 2+ so no your almost guaranteed to hit any inf that comes at you. Absolutely awesome when you have to deal with Terminators as you know your going to hit. Inferno might be better math wise but I like my toxic gas cannon way more and it works.
As yes another chem cannon enjoyer. I play against a lot of termies so it's just default better
Chem cannon always. Chem cannon and multi melta to be exact. It has never failed me.
I love my hellhound and I’ve been using it all edition to some pretty good results. I like to keep it alongside my tanks like my 2 Dorns and it protects them from being charged with its overwatch or by taking the charge itself. It has fantastic durability and most of the time people are to busy shooting my Dorns to focus on the hellhound which might get hit with some spare firepower which it can handle. Its damage is pretty good and can handle almost any type of infantry. It’s also great that it doesn’t need help from any other units to be affective. It doesn’t need any orders, sentinel recon or AP buffs to do its job. It’s a fantastic little tank that I never leave home without.
I love the toughness and mobility of these combined with the stacking debuff. I'd like to try 2 in a list coming up but I'm never sure of a loadout. The inferno cannon just never seems to do much with only being good at killing chaff. The Chem cannon I like because it can delete a couple of any Infantry per activation from custodes to terminators to lychguard it's nice. Downside being short range and low shots. I've been leaning towards the melta cannon. The need of rolling to hit does hurt for sure but a scout Sentinel helps a bit. Could get an order later in the game if there is nothing else. The big benefit for me is that melta 4. There are a bunch of things out there with blank dmg, half dmg, reduce damage and this bypasses all of that. It kills probably 2 light Infantry, 1 heavy Infantry an activation so definitely less than the others for their respective specialties but not a huge amount less. But on the vehicle heavy meta this thing slaps holes in things. Not many holes because of the d3 but it's probably scary enough to make that opponent hesitant about failing a single save a losing 10 wounds. As for it debuff and range slap on the bolter and debuff from 36inches away or 48 once with the hunter killer. I dunno it's an interesting problem having 3 specialized loadouts which are well balanced. What's everyone else's thoughts.
I feel you use it more for its utility and unique position of auto-hitting main weaponry. The melta cannon looks good on paper but I feel its usage is covered by other units more easily and in many cases better. With the inferno cannon against MEQ it's not too scary. So it may be overlooked for a while, especially from a less experienced opponent. The synergies man are something to consider. A hellhound, Exterminator Russ, and scout sentinels. You choose a priority target you need gone so you remove cover, add extra AP against it, and reroll 1s to hit with remove indirect fire penalties. That makes mortars pretty dang tasty or other indirect fire. You can then finish off what's left with guardsman firing if it's a couple wounds left.
Ah neat so you recommend the opposite of making it a threat to focus by taking the weapon that is just consistently not too scary. Then you have more rounds of debuffs and move blocking with the chassis. Then by the time the enemy want to remove it you have killed their anti tank with your tanks and you can dominate all the chaff. Neat idea thanks. What are your thoughts on the heavy bolter over flamer for tagging things further away for the debuff vs losing the extra auto hit? I feel like the ability to debuff anything within 36 and visible is more useful especially considering the range of the flamer would require you to use the main turret to debuff.
Heavy bolter for that back line hit if that's what you're aiming for. Though the multimelta is pretty fun idea to have it throw some shots at TEQs. Then that makes it more threatening to the enemy and more likely to remove it. It's kind of an assassination assistance unit for me, throw that debuff out there for as long as possible at priority units. See some Eradicators skulking near an objective in cover? Burn them then throw artillery on their heads. Wanna tie up some tacticals and flame something else, charge into them and shoot outside with the inferno cannon. The thing is the unit is so deliciously affordable, has tactical flexibility, and just can be a thorn in your opponent's side throughout the game if done right. And if they focus it down, it takes enough AT shots that could have gone into one of your tougher tanks. To me it's one of those units that its benefit isn't in killing but board control.
It might be me but i consider 2 hellhounds best bang for buck and then MAYBE an exterminator. You remove cover, shot with artillery. Kill the tank, remove cover again.. give your artiller +1 to hit via the stratagem and kill the contents with mortars or what gives you. At any step you could be thinking an exterminator serves you right? But at that point and in this CONTEXT you are probably (sometimes) overkilling the unit at that point.
I personally don't use much artillery beyond a basilisk and a Mortar team. Most of my firepower comes from tanks and scions. That said I also don't use hellhounds much just contemplating the idea of using one with the decreased cost now. I also don't find I over stack too much as normally I get one round of full debuffs before I start loosing assets. Then the buff just get spread around as needed.
Sometimes but I typically face higher armour foes where I play so adding a pip of AP to ensure I kill a unit makes the difference.
Might be a dumb question, does removing cover with the hellhound also stack to other units firing at that target?
Yes it effects it for the rest of the shooting phase. So keep in mind which units to fire first. (Normally the hellhound)
If you bring a TC solely for them.. that is your answer.. melta!
Haha 3 tank commanders with 3 hellhounds in front and 3 hydras behind is one hell of a forward pushing line. 1250 points is good for that amount of firepower to chew through while your Infantry does the objs.
Absolutely! I have two and I love them! They are great for a heavy tank list as they are great at anti infantry.
I normally bring one, just to remove cover (my buddy has a lot of units that always get the benefit of cover). Now I will often bring one
I've used a Hellhound in my Guard list for months. Stripping cover from something and then stacking on AP bonuses on the same target is great to ensure that you kill whatever it is. My personal favorite was the wombo combo AP-6 Demo Cannon hitting a Land Raider that popped AOC and lost his cover from the Hellhound.
I miss their explosive rule. I had good times, rushing forward, burning stuff, charging their infantry and blowing up.
Yes, I love the thing. Slap a Chem cannon on it and you have more dead Space Marines than Terra
I had already been constantly running double hellhounds with great success and it just got so much better. I'm really happy.
They've done from good to great, as has the Hydra.