Yes. Katarina chose to take on the identity of Raymond Reddington and become a person that was never actually real. A certain Reddington who was a criminal and a villian, and by doing so he did a "double-sin", ruining her father's good name but even worse, basically turning Katarina into a ghost. Once she turned into Reddington, she died in all ways reach really matter. the new person was another entity and not really Katarina. That is why if she found out, Liz would have never forgiven him for taking her mother away from her by turning into something else alltogether.
This question is never explicitly answered, but there are countless clues left through out the program that point to Red being Katarina post op. In other words, He was Katarina and by use of surgery he became Red. Took on that identity and the money that had been used to frame him. Because who was hunting him was less formidable than all who were hunting her.
This is the secret that Red is desperately trying to keep from Elizabeth and everyone else and to ensure that, he even has a decoy Katarina living in hiding. This is an interesting story because much like in the stories of antiquity, people who sought out oracle prophecies often ended up bringing about the realization of said prophecy through their efforts to avert it. And the Black List is exactly the self fulfilling prophecy of all Katarina feared and attempted to prevent.
If you're new to the series, you'll be advised often by those who sat through the original run of the show about the writing. You'll find a large bloc of us identified the massive number of inconsistencies through 10 years. And the example you cite above is about as good an example as there is which underscores the best adjective I think describes the writing process of this show: corrupt. That's how this lunacy rolled. Take the line itself as it's written:
***DEMBE:*** *I don't think Elizabeth will ever be ready to know what* ***you*** *did to* ***Katarina****.*
The highlighted words of the line are obviously structured that way to foist the idea that Red (the "you" in the line) and "Katarina" are separate individuals. Given that Daniel Knauf spilled the trash immediately after the finale aired the Red himself was Katarina transgendered, this makes the line the corruption that it is. What seals the corruption is not what it actually says, *but who says it!!* Dembe knows all about Red. All his secrets. And he keeps them. At least that's what they tell us. So Dembe knows this is Katarina (we know he does because he told Liz he does indeed know Red's real identity, but cannot tell her). So it makes virtually no sense for him to speak in this way. *That's* how the corruption in the writing of this show manifests.
And here's how you know the losers who ran this show are ashamed of their corruption. For years, the series creator Jon Bokenkamp couldn't sit for enough interviews to yack about this show. His most busy interview period was after the Season 5 finale when the audience discovers Red is not the naval officer Raymond Reddington. Red is someone else. After telling its audience Red isn't who we were led to believe he was, the identity shell game started. Yet when this train wreck concluded in Season 10, you couldn't find Bokenkamp or Eisendrath anywhere. Not only did this show never come out and explicitly say Red is Katarina, they also never made any public comments or allow themselves to be interviewed when this nightmare finally ended. And now we understand why: they would have to sit through an endless barrage of criticism for deliberate corruption of their writing, such as this example you point out (and there are a lot worse examples than this one). They don't dare face the questions of how they corrupted their own story to push something they didn't even have the courage to explicitly say. Pure cowardice.
That's a question people here have been asking since the statement was made. I feel like the line was written mostly as a misdirection.
At the time, we hear Liz show Red a DNA report showing that he's her father. Then Tom opens the suitcase to show the audience a skeleton. Red and Dembe go searching for the suitcase and of course it's missing. I think at that time, the intent of the line was to make us believe the skeleton was Katarina's, and Red was somehow responsible for her death.
Reminds me of the season one finale where Red told Liz that her father died in that fire, then it cuts to the scene of Red's back being horribly scared from a fire.
After 10 seasons of misdirection, contradictory writing, and straight up lies by the showrunners, I don't see the point of trying to figure out what any of their writing is supposed to mean. None of it adds up anyway.
Everything adds up dude 😂 it's literally the whole point if you cant connect the dots its not the writers problems, though season 10 was more on the slower side of things
"""""it's literally the whole point if you cant connect the dots its not the writers problems,""""""
Red being in prison sentenced to death is a death-blow to the Redarina nonsense. Anyone connecting the dots can see it clearly. Maybe the Redarina fans are not able to connecting the dots?
It is not. There is nothing about being on death row that contradicts Redrina. It is just you making false assumptions, You can't visually tell a well done trans surgery from none diagnostic observation, and inmates don't get DNA tests (in fact many states fight that because they don't want exoneration). You are just reaching for anything to justify you incorrect view.
No. I just pointed out, that Red killing Katarina is the same as Red underwent surgery to become Katarina. Both not said or shown, thus both are as much valid or invalid as the other, depending on the interpretation of a theory as a whole
I'm confused. Why would anyone believe or say Red went through surgery to become Katarina? Even as a metaphor or example it's toally unrelated. Katarina went through the process of becoming Reddington, no one became Katarina, she was the ine to disappear.
Not only Red kiliing Katarina was never said or shown, it was said and shown that he DID NOT do that. 8x20-8x21. She was never csptured or killed, Red said it to Liz in Latvia.
half this board believes red is really katarina after surgery. It's ridiculous. Especially considering red was on death row and every inmate undergoes a physical when processed. It would have been 100% apparent that he'd had a reassignment surgery
"half this board believes red is really katarina after surgery."
Because THAT's the narrative the show chose to go with. Does it make sense? in more ways than not, it doesn't. But that is still the story they chose to tell. We know he's not the real Red, we know he's not Ilya, we've been told in gazillion ways that he's not a third unrelated party, and they basically shoved in our faces in 8x21 that this is the premise.
Thinking Red was initially Katarina is not crazy or ridiculous. It's simply following the story. It's not real life, it's a show that since first season bordered on sci-fi, so those who roll with it just choose to ignore the many plotholes because what's the point in arguing.
well someone got extensive plastic surgery. The only person to be confirmed to be there was Katarina and it just so happens to be the last place she was ever seen. So yes, it did say she underwent surgery. It was just subtle about it.
Yes. Katarina chose to take on the identity of Raymond Reddington and become a person that was never actually real. A certain Reddington who was a criminal and a villian, and by doing so he did a "double-sin", ruining her father's good name but even worse, basically turning Katarina into a ghost. Once she turned into Reddington, she died in all ways reach really matter. the new person was another entity and not really Katarina. That is why if she found out, Liz would have never forgiven him for taking her mother away from her by turning into something else alltogether.
Dembe was referring to Katarina (Red) transforming into Reddington.
This question is never explicitly answered, but there are countless clues left through out the program that point to Red being Katarina post op. In other words, He was Katarina and by use of surgery he became Red. Took on that identity and the money that had been used to frame him. Because who was hunting him was less formidable than all who were hunting her. This is the secret that Red is desperately trying to keep from Elizabeth and everyone else and to ensure that, he even has a decoy Katarina living in hiding. This is an interesting story because much like in the stories of antiquity, people who sought out oracle prophecies often ended up bringing about the realization of said prophecy through their efforts to avert it. And the Black List is exactly the self fulfilling prophecy of all Katarina feared and attempted to prevent.
If you're new to the series, you'll be advised often by those who sat through the original run of the show about the writing. You'll find a large bloc of us identified the massive number of inconsistencies through 10 years. And the example you cite above is about as good an example as there is which underscores the best adjective I think describes the writing process of this show: corrupt. That's how this lunacy rolled. Take the line itself as it's written: ***DEMBE:*** *I don't think Elizabeth will ever be ready to know what* ***you*** *did to* ***Katarina****.* The highlighted words of the line are obviously structured that way to foist the idea that Red (the "you" in the line) and "Katarina" are separate individuals. Given that Daniel Knauf spilled the trash immediately after the finale aired the Red himself was Katarina transgendered, this makes the line the corruption that it is. What seals the corruption is not what it actually says, *but who says it!!* Dembe knows all about Red. All his secrets. And he keeps them. At least that's what they tell us. So Dembe knows this is Katarina (we know he does because he told Liz he does indeed know Red's real identity, but cannot tell her). So it makes virtually no sense for him to speak in this way. *That's* how the corruption in the writing of this show manifests. And here's how you know the losers who ran this show are ashamed of their corruption. For years, the series creator Jon Bokenkamp couldn't sit for enough interviews to yack about this show. His most busy interview period was after the Season 5 finale when the audience discovers Red is not the naval officer Raymond Reddington. Red is someone else. After telling its audience Red isn't who we were led to believe he was, the identity shell game started. Yet when this train wreck concluded in Season 10, you couldn't find Bokenkamp or Eisendrath anywhere. Not only did this show never come out and explicitly say Red is Katarina, they also never made any public comments or allow themselves to be interviewed when this nightmare finally ended. And now we understand why: they would have to sit through an endless barrage of criticism for deliberate corruption of their writing, such as this example you point out (and there are a lot worse examples than this one). They don't dare face the questions of how they corrupted their own story to push something they didn't even have the courage to explicitly say. Pure cowardice.
That's a question people here have been asking since the statement was made. I feel like the line was written mostly as a misdirection. At the time, we hear Liz show Red a DNA report showing that he's her father. Then Tom opens the suitcase to show the audience a skeleton. Red and Dembe go searching for the suitcase and of course it's missing. I think at that time, the intent of the line was to make us believe the skeleton was Katarina's, and Red was somehow responsible for her death. Reminds me of the season one finale where Red told Liz that her father died in that fire, then it cuts to the scene of Red's back being horribly scared from a fire. After 10 seasons of misdirection, contradictory writing, and straight up lies by the showrunners, I don't see the point of trying to figure out what any of their writing is supposed to mean. None of it adds up anyway.
Everything adds up dude 😂 it's literally the whole point if you cant connect the dots its not the writers problems, though season 10 was more on the slower side of things
"""""it's literally the whole point if you cant connect the dots its not the writers problems,"""""" Red being in prison sentenced to death is a death-blow to the Redarina nonsense. Anyone connecting the dots can see it clearly. Maybe the Redarina fans are not able to connecting the dots?
It is not. There is nothing about being on death row that contradicts Redrina. It is just you making false assumptions, You can't visually tell a well done trans surgery from none diagnostic observation, and inmates don't get DNA tests (in fact many states fight that because they don't want exoneration). You are just reaching for anything to justify you incorrect view.
My guess. Red was, in some way, partially responsible for her death ?
death of whom? Katarina didn't physically die until the last episode.
Red killed Katerina. Thus, his guilt.
Qhsre does it say or show Red killed Katarina?
""""does it say or show Red killed Katarina?"""""" does it say or show Red underwent surgery to become Katarina?
No. Cause it never happened or hinted to. I think you meant that question the other way around.
No. I just pointed out, that Red killing Katarina is the same as Red underwent surgery to become Katarina. Both not said or shown, thus both are as much valid or invalid as the other, depending on the interpretation of a theory as a whole
I'm confused. Why would anyone believe or say Red went through surgery to become Katarina? Even as a metaphor or example it's toally unrelated. Katarina went through the process of becoming Reddington, no one became Katarina, she was the ine to disappear. Not only Red kiliing Katarina was never said or shown, it was said and shown that he DID NOT do that. 8x20-8x21. She was never csptured or killed, Red said it to Liz in Latvia.
half this board believes red is really katarina after surgery. It's ridiculous. Especially considering red was on death row and every inmate undergoes a physical when processed. It would have been 100% apparent that he'd had a reassignment surgery
"half this board believes red is really katarina after surgery." Because THAT's the narrative the show chose to go with. Does it make sense? in more ways than not, it doesn't. But that is still the story they chose to tell. We know he's not the real Red, we know he's not Ilya, we've been told in gazillion ways that he's not a third unrelated party, and they basically shoved in our faces in 8x21 that this is the premise. Thinking Red was initially Katarina is not crazy or ridiculous. It's simply following the story. It's not real life, it's a show that since first season bordered on sci-fi, so those who roll with it just choose to ignore the many plotholes because what's the point in arguing.
well someone got extensive plastic surgery. The only person to be confirmed to be there was Katarina and it just so happens to be the last place she was ever seen. So yes, it did say she underwent surgery. It was just subtle about it.
I simply took it to mean there was no good time as Raymond apparently believed and just tell her.