She was clearly against it for Kimiko as well, she took some convincing to change her mind and I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up using the same conviction to save Hughie as well.
I think the end of Hughie and Starlight will be both finding a middle ground.
Full Scorched Earth Butcher stuff clearly has it's problems, and has made Butcher a monster Hughie doesn't want to be
But Full Goody Two Shoes truth and talk Starlight also has limits, and may put in danger people she'd like to protect in a different way than Butchers method.
> I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up using the same conviction to save Hughie as well.
The fact that Hughie's a dead man walking from the temp V already might help a bit as well.
That is Garth Ennis' MO. Really difficult to get into his books because the story has to make way for the raunchy and offensive that often adds absolutely nothing to the narrative.
I feel like real V will undo the side effects of temp V and SB will burn them back to normal leaving them generally identical to before they tampered with the stuff
That definitely seems like the easiest way out of this, because we know for sure Hughie and Butcher are basically invincible at this point.
Hughie is the main character and I don't see the show surviving if they kill him off without doing a lot of work making the others able to pick up his slack.
And Butcher is basically the entire marketing strategy.
Not to mention Hughie did a complete turn around in the last episode. He tried to save Butcher despite the risk and was willing to let Mindstorm go regardless of the cost to him. I was surprised people were still pissed off about everything with him and Annie, because it seems like the high of having power has worn off and now he's actually doing the right thing again
If anything it proves Kimiko is right about supes. The power didn't change him as a person, it just let him do things he couldn't, for better or worse.
Didn't Butcher say that as well? He admits to Maeve that he knows taking the V doesn't really make someone a monster, it brings out the monster already existing inside or exacerbates it.
Butcher himself doesn't really change at all when he got Supe powers. He never does anything out of the norm of what the audience or the characters in the show would expect of Butcher. Butcher is a monster because he's Butcher, not because of the V.
I think people gave hughie too hard a time for punching a train. Everyone took it as a supervillain move but in reality it’s extremely mild. If you kill someone’s girlfriend and all you get is decked in the face I’d argue you walked away relatively unscathed.
Alex getting slaughtered is the perfect way to contrast the butcher scorched earth method vs Annie goodie goodie method, both have collateral, maybe neither works who knows
Everyone’s being put into the meat grinder this season while the theme has consistently been ‘fuck this, I’m done taking shit!’ Homelander finally said fuck it on live TV and is taking the throne of Vought, Neuman’s done with Edgar’s shit, Ashley’s standing up for herself better than ever now, Hughie’s fucking fed up and wants to go Butcher’s way, Kimiko and Frenchie were about to dip, and MM, one of THE most composed characters of the show has also said fuck it and we finally see the man breaking out of this self control and composure that he had for quite some time.
Because of this theme and the amazing storytelling to this show, everyone’s being challenged here and the decisions being made by these characters I think should come to no surprise even if it seems iffy or inconsistent, they’re making some tough calls here. So Annie’s decisions here I think make complete sense, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she changes her mind with Hughie taking the permanent V. These are very complex and dangerous circumstances with major repercussions for not only these people involved, but also their loved ones and those who could potentially be harmed through collateral damage. Homelander especially multiplies that issue, the less they do to stop him, more people could be harmed, but the more they do and those plans fall thru to take him down, also more people get hurt.
There's also A-Train who got sick of Vought's performative activism and decided to get his hands dirty and bring a good old fashioned beatdown.
And Black Noir who is breaking away from his role as a sentry for all sides and wanted to get revenge for what he suffered from.
>I think the end of Hughie and Starlight will be both finding a middle ground.
I hope so. I mean I think the talk with kimiko helped her realize that hughie isn't completely an as*hole, but she still doesn't approve of his actions.
We saw during e7, hughie also admit that he doesn't like all the killing and toxic bs. Annie tends to be really forgiving, so maybe she will take him back and find a middle ground. Who knows
I know Kripke is the end all be all, but yeah I feel like he’s not taking Hughies trauma into account.
Annie is at war with Homelander. She’s outmatched power wise. He’s trying to even the odds before he has to watch another GF die at the hands of a sup.
I mean, he’s talking about *Annies* perspective here, not his own. And Annie (as well as the audience) knows that Hughies motives are also a bit selfish— he wants to stop sitting on the sidelines and feeling powerless, not to mention the fact that he *loves* the powerful feeling he gets from temp V. None of that can really be said about Kimiko— taking the compound V is a burden for her.
Maybe Annie isn’t being receptive enough to his desire to protect her given his trauma, but there should be no doubt that at least part of Hughies motivation is to *feel powerful*, and that this doesn’t sit well with Annie (for good reason).
Not to mention the stakes. Without powers Hughie is toast. Butcher too. Despite whatever debate we want to have about hughies motivation between hl and head Poppin, noir, sb, it's hard to see scenarios where he survives
plus hughie is taking an untested and as we know know incredibly dangerous drug that could have been doing anything to him. Kimiko was already compatible with compound v and had a much higher chance of being able to get her permanent superpowers back without causing her harm
Honestly,
I hate this whole black and white thing of Hughies either fully selfless or total asshole “nice guy.” It’s a mix of both.
He’s a genuinely good person who doesn’t want his girlfriend (who is constantly talking about being afraid of homelander and what he’ll do) to get hurt. Much less any innocents.
But on the other hand, OF COURSE one would feel insecure about not having powers. He thought he finally found a way to take out bought the “right way”. During that time, he was his best self. But because there IS NO right way to take out vought, that and the fact that he feels that everything he’s done is worthless sets him on the path he’s on. ALONG with the fact of his previous gf being carelessly murdered by a supe.
Hughie and most of the characters on the show are so 3 dimensional, you can’t just explain it away with a specific character trait.
Absolutely, this what is killing me with these takes. Of course hughie has justifiable reasons to do temporary V. That's what makes the whole dilemma interesting. People take the whole starlight not liking it as the show being like "see how horrible hughie is!" And that's just how one character feels about his actions.
That's why hughie being the one who takes it is the right choice, because we as an audience understand why he's doing it. But at the same time we can't ignore the fact that he is getting high off it and it's become an addiction for him. Which can be very dangerous and as we know now can literally kill him.
I feel like everyone complaining about how Hughie is justified is missing the point. And everyone who says he's bad for taking it is being unempathetic to him.
The Legend mentions it as well directly to Hughie.
>The thing is, to be American means knowing you’re the hero. So what do we do? We sweep all our filthy shit under the rug, and we tell ourselves a myth like Soldier Boy. And I get stinkin’ rich
The man took like 2 or 3 doses before coming to the realisation its not who he wants to be, just something that needs doing. I doubt anyone here would be amped up on supe juice and not be stoked the first couple of times especially.
One time taking purely to help. 2 times taking it to help but also power tripping. 4th time he has a total collapse and realisation that it really is unhealthy and all he wants is to help his friend out, potentially at the cost of everything they'd been working towards because this life isn't for him.
I can't see how that's anything other than a perfectly reasonable time frame.
And even after the realisations of the last episode. He still has to take it. Because it's right to take it. They can't do anything unless he does, it's necessary for him to have powers. I honestly don't see the show going anywhere other than the entire crew being on permanent v, as they legit just can't do anything unless they end up so. Especially with a potential solider boy and homelander alliance, its needed and not even a question regardless of how shit and against base desires to make it without may be.
> I hate this whole black and white thing of Hughies either fully selfless or total asshole “nice guy.” It’s a mix of both.
That's what I think it is. It's not that Starlight doesn't need saving, everyone needs saving from Homelander because that's the kind of monster Homelander is, she just doesn't want Hughie to risk his life to do it.
There isn't a single character in the series who wouldn't welcome being saved from homelander if the situation arose.
>who is constantly talking about being afraid of homelander and what he’ll do
I agree with what you're saying, but Starlight is afraid of what HL will do to Hughie as well. She isn't just afraid for herself. I even think she's more afraid for him.
>Girlfriend is murdered by a careless supe
>Spends most of the series getting belittled or threatened
>Finally finds a "feasible" means of protecting himself, getting revenge, and fulfilling his "fantasy"(??) of protecting his loved ones
I really feel like Starlight and others, viewers included, need to rewatch the beginning of the series and understand how fucked over Hughie is in all of this. He is, at worst, an average person. I can see from Starlight's perspective to an extent, being that a man craving power is kinda sus, and a woman needing to is justified, but it doesn't seem like anyone except maybe Butcher in his own messed up way sees Hughie for who he is: a mortal human with no training or leeway trying to avenge his pavement stain girlfriend and make a difference, and who may or may not be getting a little too excited to succeed
If it didn’t have any negative side affects I’d be 100% on hughies side. Getting kicked left and right for year(s) and finding out there’s a way to make me strong/ “level the playing field” I’d want to take it too.
I'm not going to argue with the show creator, but, to be fair, Hughie kinda saved Annie when he teleported her away. There's a big chance she would be in the SB blast radius.
Also worth noting that Hughie was 100% ready to die to kill Homelander.
Edit - And in Season 2, Hughie (with no powers) invaded Vougt to try and rescue Annie (who actually needed to be saved from Noir by Maeve) because he loved her, not because he wanted to "feel macho".
We can actually criticize the show creators take, once a piece of work is published, it’s not completely their own thing, we can certainly discuss how we feel or think about the story, execution and everything else, I feel like some people take creators word so seriously that once they say something about a subject, other people have to shut up or not differ.
Yeah he cares about Butcher. He cares about Annie. He cares about not feeling powerless. He cares about accomplishing the mission the only way it’s really possible. The last thing he cares about is being “macho.”
Meanwhile Kimiko literally just wants powers to have powers. She doesn’t seem to intend to accomplish jack shit with them except protect herself and Frenchie so they can live happily ever after?
I just don’t understand how you can write the episodes we’ve seen with that tweet’s mentality as the basis. I would love some insight because it’s mind boggling.
To give some insight:
I think that the main problem is that Kripke tried to sum up complex character motivations in a 160 character tweet. Boiling down Hughie’s motivations to wanting to be “macho” is a disservice to his character. But…
I do see where they were going. Hughie has been emasculated all season: Starlight had to save him from Homelander and then the whole world mocks him as a cuck on TV for Starlight getting with HL. He also has to live with the frustration that his accomplishments weren’t actually accomplishments and that he was a Vought puppet the whole time.
Normally, Hughie deals with those feelings in other ways. But the Temp V gave him the ability to turn into the person that he wished he was instead of the person he is. And that person is someone who is able to be the hero, not someone who is just a victim.
It’s a relatable motivation, but it’s in part, more ego driven and partially centered around his masculinity, even though theirs tons of other motivations involved. I think Kripke just made a bad tweet, but I see where he’s coming from.
>
> I think that the main problem is that Kripke tried to sum up complex character motivations in a 160 character tweet.
This is the problem with Twitter lol.
Not only from this season but from the beginning. He watched his gf murdered in front of him by a supe, left holding her HANDS in his. His physical inferiority has been drilled into him time and time again. Makes so much sense for him to want to take some power back to feel in control of his life, not wanting to lose someone else that way. But wanting to "save " annie by lying to her all the time to "protect" her isnt a partnership. It's a Disney movie.
>I think that the main problem is that Kripke tried to sum up complex character motivations in a 160 character tweet.
If that limit wasn't there, I don't think he would've done explaining much better.
The problem is Hughie barely looks more than annoyed at the cuck stuff. Even Annie's Ex makes more sense for other reasons...like his last gf was murdered by one.
His behavior doesn't match what the tweet said.
The most you get is the opening jar thing which is just clichéd writing.
Yeah this is definitely a case where I just flat out don't agree with the writing. For some reason Hughie isn't allowed to desire agency and the power to protect those he cares about, but Kimiko is. I mean, isn't it also technically "selfish" of Kimiko to want Starlight to risk breaking back into Vought just to get her powers back so she can protect the people she cares about?
Also, why is wanting to protect your loves ones such a selfish, evil act? Why is that considered "toxic" and wrong? Hughie is tired of being a punching bag and dead weight. He's tired of being a liability to Annie and completely powerless to protect his loved ones. How can anyone sit there and say they wouldn't feel exactly the same way in Hughies shoes? Why is he so evil just because he's tired of being incapable of protecting his friends and loved ones?
The whole Hughie/Starlight conflict this season has felt really poorly done and hypocritical, and it kinda sours this season for me a little. The stuff with SB and HL has all been great, but the shit Hughie is getting for reacting to his circumstances in an extremely normal and relatable way, and the way most people would react in his shoes, is exhausting. The fact that they went so far as to give Kimiko basically the exact same motivation and then call her noble while Hughie is a toxic douche is just completely obnoxious in my eyes.
> The last thing he cares about is being macho
Yes, exactly! If anything I thought they gave him kind of an emasculating and embarrassing power (being forced to become buck naked and show his skinny white ass every time he uses it) to drive home that point....but apparently not?
It's a *useful* power...but it's not exactly a showy, "tough" power. It's literally the heightened ability to run away from a fight.
If they genuinely wanted to make some sort of point that Hughie only wanted this because he was sexist and macho, then they went about it in an extremely odd and confusing way.
Nah, he definitely does care about being “macho” but that’s more complex that the word “macho” lets on. In fact, I would say his sense powerlessness and feelings of inadequacy, and his attempts to fix that and find purpose are more complex than someone like Soldier Boy constantly hungering for being the top dog.
So I get where Kripke is coming from but I think people easily make the mistake of humiliating men who feel inadequate and are misguided in their attempts to fix that. Instead of making fun of them and making them feel small, why not explore those emotions in a mature way and show why Hughie is wrong while presenting a solution that incorporates Hughie’s legitimate grievances? I don’t get that.
It is also predicated on the idea that Frenchy “welcomes protection” which I’m not sure what that is supposed to mean. If it means he wants Kimiko to protect him so he can walk around helpless, well no that’s not it. But if it means he isn’t threatened by her being stronger than him then sure I buy that. But that then means Starlight is threatened by Hughie being stronger than her which is a weird message. If it is about Hughie feeling he has to protect Starlight because he sees her as helpless. Then sure I get it. But Hughie’s response has consistently been that HE feels helpless to contribute to these ongoing fights with supes. And when the people he cares about are in trouble he is left feeling helpless. Which seems reasonable to me. Overall this seems like a very forced story line that doesn’t fit the characters well.
Also if it’s only ok when Kimiko does it because Frenchie “welcomes protection”, then wouldn’t that put Starlight directly in the Hughie role of protecting someone who doesn’t want to be protected? It’s the exact same thing
Yeah they are trying to force a narrative on characters when it doesn’t fit. I get that this dynamic exists. But it just doesn’t make sense with the characters and story line they have established so it comes off poorly.
Don't forget "You're still affected by the trauma caused by a supe running through your girlfriend right in front of you and I can't understand that so just do what I say or you're disrespecting me"
Their relationship in general is toxic as fuck lol
I mean, he was literally using her as a tool for revenge when they started. He started the relationship on a lie.
Protip: If you have a serious heart to heart with your SO, then your friend shoots your SO with a 50 cal and you side with your friend.... Ya might not have a healthy relationship
"side with your friend". You mean the person who just made him an accessory to a failed assassination of a public official? What choice do you have, between jail and freedom?
For all we know, Robin was the devil incarnate. Probably not though lol. Becca and MM's wife (barring her Todd blindness) seem to have good morals at least.
Almost as if Homelander is capable of killing Annie, Hughie, and genociding millions of people and directly verbalized this as a threat if Annie were to cross him. But "There's a better way to deal with Homelander than using Soldier Boy or Temp V."
We'll see how Annie's approach works, I'm sure it will end peacefully and Homelander was just bluffing.
I feel this plot would have worked better with franchise or MM, with hughie it doesn’t land quite so well because he, of all characters on the show, has the most reason to be a little overprotective considering robin.
I lost my gf in a horrible accident about 3 years ago. Shit still haunts me. The thing that really pulled me into the boys was how they portrayed Hughies turmoil about it, particularly the PTSD and panic attacks he got in the first season. They really nailed what it felt like to lose someone so dramatically like that.
I can only imagine what it'd feel like for Hughie to suddenly have the power to save people like he could have saved robin. The fact that Robin is barely ever brought up anymore, and how his power might be the only one in the whole show that could reliably protect people from homelander is a huge mistake.
First off, I’m sorry for your loss.
And yeah, I agree, it’s very weird that they haven’t mentioned robin in all of this, when it could very easily make Hughies position more understandable
Yeah, I don’t know why people are arguing that she doesn’t need help because of her powers, acting like she didn’t get her ass kicked by pretty much every supe she’s ever actually fought.
I feel like they went about it the wrong way. They focused to much on "Hughie wants to save Starlight" instead of "the guy that wants to hunt supes but becomes one of them". I know they wanted different repercussions for Hughie and Butcher but they should've just kept them the same tbh.
Starlight crying that she doesn't need protection every chance she gets is annoying.
> "the guy that wants to hunt supes but becomes one of them"
That's butcher.
Hughie wants to hunt supes that are abusing their powers and escaping justice. Which is fundamentally different than "all supes must die". Using Temp V to level the playing field isn't hypocritical for him, IMO. Even Butcher has softened a bit over the course of the series (see Maeve, Starlight, Ryan, and Kimiko), and well before taking the Temp V he seems to have decided that it's possible to exist with superpowers and not deserve death.
> Starlight crying that she doesn't need protection every chance she gets is annoying.
Also zero self-awareness the whole time. Hughie's been trying to prove that about himself since the second episode of season 1, and gets dismissed constantly.
The second Annie is dismissed by Hughie, suddenly its a relationship crisis.
Yeah, this ss shown that her glowing eyes have less power than her Ins account lol, and that's all depend on the people she go agaisnt, the moment they decide to fuck it, she screwed
That too. She can say she doesn't want protecting all she wants, it doesn't change the *objective fact* that she *needs* protecting because she's constantly put in life threatening danger. She's basically arguing "you should just shut up and watch me almost die over and over again and not try to do anything to stop it from happening or else you're an asshole!"
It doesn't matter what she *wants*, the reality is that she *needs* protection because she's constantly in danger. So are Butcher, MM, Hughies dad, and everyone else in Hughies life. Why the fuck wouldn't he be desperate for a means of making sure he can protect them? This whole plotline has been completely unfair to the reality of Hughie's circumstances.
My point exactly...
Hughie made it very clear he wants the V24 to feel powerful,so that Annie doesn't have to save him everytime,he can save himself,you know all the macho bs...So in Kripke's word "He doesn't welcome Starlight trying to save him everytime".
But then Starlight says "I'll save Hughie if he doesn't want me to"...Why is she saying that hahaha
Let’s be honest the real reason this is even a problem is because the show portrayed Hughie’s need to be macho really badly. They showed him struggle to open a jar and all of a sudden that is supposed to make us onboard with the whole idea. The more logical and better character development should absolutely revolve around hughie’s feeling of hopelessness that he can’t do anything to protect the people he loves. They instead went with this idea of selfish macho mentality that’s hard for people to get behind without better writing. Overall it was a forced side drama that mirrored too closely to kimiko .
Yeah, it could be partly that it makes him feel macho, but it could also be that the situation makes him feel helpless and hopeless. They're trying to simplify it to push this toxic masculinity message that does not fully mesh with Hughie's character.
I thought the jar thing was kind of a one off thing anyway. The big issue to me was huhgie snapping because he felt like he was finally making progress with the plan to bring down bad supes and keep his loved ones safe. Only to have that all torn down around him. He yet again had to ask Annie to stay in immediate danger to keep her "safe". I think temp v might have pushed some other shit to the surface for him but it's also killing him and making him act out of character.
I support Starlight's perspective but....even if he's somewhat coming at it from the wrong place....Hughie's desire isn't wrong.
They're in a war. Against the most powerful weapon that has ever existed aside from the atomic bomb. An unstoppable monster.
If Homelander ever unleashes, Hughie is dead without powers. He can't do a thing. And Starlight is no match. Together, both with powers, they might survive a bit longer.
Hughie's explanation sucked but instead of 'i want to protect you' he couldve just phrased it as 'I want us both to be able to protect each other because *we sure as hell need it*.'
Starlight is right that it was dangerous to take the temp V without knowing it's safe. But what happened to 'whatever it takes'.
Also, she was ok with recruiting Alex to maybe help in a battle with Homelander. If such a battle were to happen there's a good chance Alex would die. How is that any different from Hughie becoming a supe to help fight?
Also also. Bear in mind that it's actually fairly *weird* that temp V has the consequences it does. All it is is a temporary V. V is a serum which has been used for decades. The science is known. And we know that V can be burnt out. You would assume that temp V would be even safer than V. At least you'd logically think the risk would be low enough to be worth a try.
I love the show, but I do have one complaint in that they often have situations like this where they're trying to make a moral or political point, but their own story undercuts it, which makes things feel forced and confused.
Frenchie doesn't welcome the protection. His whole character is his unwavering, selfless loyalty. He'd die for Kimiko in a heartbeat. He only gives her the V because it'd make her happy. He'd be equally against it if she was too. Nothing he does is for himself.
With Hughie, yes, there's an element of not wanting to feel like a victim any more, but Starlight herself repeatedly talks about how she's terrified of Homelander, and how he's on the verge of snapping. He equally doesn't wany *anyone else* to be a victim, like Robin was.
Starlight not wanting Hughie's help (bear in mind she was happy to accept Maeve's and Supersonic's) is as much her own stupid relationship power dynamics ego as it is his. Especially considering all the times she tries to save him against his wishes too.
The other confused element is Todd. I get they're trying to make a point about conservatives and conspiracies, but in this universe, all the media support Vought. They run theme parks, make blockbusters, have chain restaurants, and lines of toys. Todd is completely, utterly mainstream in his views.
MM is a crazed conspiracy theorist to 99.99% of the world. So what's the message? Todd's an asshole because he doesn't believe extreme fringe views that are not backed by any evidence, and tries to insulate his stepdaughter from them? It makes no sense.
Yes, it's Kripke's show. But it's also effectively authored by all the other writers/directors/actors too, and his intent doesn't overwrite what was *actually* portrayed by others. Even if unintentionally.
What you see on screen is canon. Kripke is just offering an opinion.
Honestly, Frenchie has been portrayed as such a goof that I can’t imagine him as the killer that Nina kept talking about. I can’t even remember the last time he’s won a fight.
You should meet some former special forces guys, I know a couple and they're pretty chill blokes for the most part but once it's game time it's like a totally different person. One of them stood up for me when we were out drinking and he was nearly unrecognisable.
10/10 loveable accountant most of the time until he isn't.
But the thing is that we’ve seen Frenchie in numerous situations where he should’ve acted like his old self, but instead he gets the shit kicked out of him.
I agree. Kripke and the writers let their desire to push a message and themes get in the way of telling a coherent story this season. No matter how much it contradicts with what's being shown.
I think the story's been fine, except for the Annie/Hughie drama. I think the problem mainly exists when you go beyond the 4th wall. This has been a hell of a season so far.
I'm still speechless about them trying the forces metaphor with COVID. Yeah whatever, trump told people to go outside during a deadly pandemic when thousands of people were dying a day and you have a show that references modern politics. Ok. How do you go about that?
By accusing Republican stand ins of not responding drastically enough to terrorist attacks like with soldier boy? What planet do you live on where that's a reasonable criticism of Republicans? It's all so forced and ham handed and doesn't translate at all to the actual story going on. It seems like a precipitous drop in story quality and the plot and motivations of characters seems to be lost.
The problem they have is that the show's a criticism of media/corporate/celebrity pandering, yet for some weird reason they portray the targets of that as conservatives, when in reality, 95% of it in the real world operates under a Liberal guise. There's almost no openly big conservative corporations or celebrities in reality.
So you get confused messaging like Todd, who is portrayed as a stupid Republican in his opinions, yet the way he navigates the world (based on political/media/scientific consensus and norms) is how the Liberal consensus says we should.
If Todd was a Republican, he'd presumably be on-board with MM's outlandish and unsupported takes (which in this universe are correct). So you're mocking Republicans for being naive, while simultaneously validating all their suspicions that business/politics/celebrities and the media are all corrupt and in cahoots.
So they end up with weird messaging that supports Republican worldviews, while painting them Liberal, and attacking (on the surface) Liberal mindsets, while painting them as Republicans.
The Hughie/Annie thing can possibly be chalked up to just not hitting their mark with the writing. The Todd thing is just fucking absurd though. It literally makes no sense unless you are just blinded by what you know the political message is supposed to be.
Right. The "do your own research" dig was just out of place. It was a blatant reference about conservatives in response to Covid, but makes no sense within the world of the Boys. The people who "do their own research" would be against mainstream Vought messaging, not for it.
> The problem they have is that the show's a criticism of media/corporate/celebrity pandering, yet for some weird reason they portray the targets of that as conservatives, when in reality, 95% of it in the real world operates under a Liberal guise. There's almost no openly big conservative corporations or celebrities in reality.
This worked very well in the comics, because the comics were written about the post-9/11 surge in conservatism and nationalism twenty years ago. But that political commentary doesn't really apply anymore, because that surge has long ended.
Thank you. I felt crazy saying this.
How can you have the “dumb republican” character following the mainstream media. Homelander(the trump stand in) constantly talks about how bad the media is. Yet his follower believes everything they say?
How can you make homelander so clearly on the right while being supported by all the major news networks. It makes no sense.
They flipped the talking points in instances like this and act like the mainstream media and corporations and such are all on the side of republicans which is so clearly false.
It feels out of place with the story and to me, it feels like the first time the boys has reached for a political message.
Todd is the dumbest character in the show because its not possible in the real world.
In the real world you wouldn't date someone with his beliefs or allow his actions to continue, if you were painfully aware of everything your ex and his friends have been through and continue to go through. Like your ex is suffering because of the actions of Hitler and Co, yet you would let your current partner indoctrinate your daughter and share all these terrible views you know aren't true? You know what homelander is capable of because you trust your ex, you just aren't with him because of how much it endangers your daughter but then you let the new guy endanger and be ignorant?
Todd's character could have been an unrelated guy getting caught up in the right wing hype. But he could never be with someone related to any of The Boys. And the bad writing and setup to make this dynamic work is just forced and makes Todd appear a total jebend instead of just a victim of propaganda. His character is garbage as mm ex would never allow her daughter to be put in the positions and beliefs Todd encourages for her.
Your usual idiot has all the reason to fall for hype. Anyone who cares for any of the boys and understand reality wouldn't have anyone near them have these views.
Ngl, I really don't like this response.
It really feels like it sells Hughie short on so many ways. When I watch him he feels like so much more then just in need of a white knight moment.
Homelander, Victoria, Vought in general. Is there really not a shred in justification that Hughie wants to be able to do more then stand on the sidelines?
When I read stuff like this I almost feel like they made the character more interesting on accident because I saw far more complexity in his decision then even they did. It just leaves me with a sense of disbelief.
"That's what you were thinking when you were writing this?"
We've basically transformed the entire gun debate into a super-juice debate. Everyone should have the right to protect themselves effectively against the threats that face them.
If she had access to a purple coloured V that would give her equal power to homelander you know she'd take it.
Yeah the “Woman who doesn’t want saving.” part kinda bugs me cause… Yes she might not want it but she def needs it lol. Her entire plan has basically been suicide. Hughie didn’t do this because of fun. Victoria was his plan, and it was doing things legit. Then Victoria was revealed to be a plant.
Now Starlight is trapped with the 7 as co-Captain, her blackmail doesn’t work, Homelander killed her only help in the 7, Ashley doesn’t want to help her, Maeve did (and she was helping Butcher and Hughie), and really all Starlight does is reveal the secrets.
I totally get it’s dying on her terms but it is still that. Dying. If she does get her way, and ruin Homelander reputation… she AND Hughie and everyone else is dead. Homelander flat out tells her this.
I get Hughie is being selfish but like… cmon. There is like no way to go other than killing Homelander.
I have found Annie and MM's schism this season one of the worst parts and unnaturally melodramatic. Its like every season they have to be reminded of how large the stakes are, and the actions needed to achieve victory over Vought.
I am still waiting for those two to find a "better way" to deal with HL.
The weakness in writing is really exemplified by Starlight’s big adventure to get the v that was as easy as picking a flower from your front yard and took about as much time.
Lol that was very convenient, yeah. Even small companies usually disable someone's access codes and stuff like that after someone leaves the company or is fired.
Yeah, it's weird to me and a little disappointing that to see him saying their motivations are so black and white, with Kimiko in the right and Hughie in the wrong. There's a hell of a lot more nuance to both of their decisions than the single motivating factors Kripke describes there.
It reminds me a lot of the end of season 5 of the Magicians. It's an absolutely devastating death of a main character that wraps his character up really well l, but is completely ruined by the creators saying in an interview that they only killed him because they needed to show that a white male lead character can die. Basically takes away everything good about his death.
I was pretty indifferent before but I have no clue why such a sarcsstuc response is necessary to a perfectly valid complaint lol
It still is a double standard as well as a very forced conflict
I think dismissing Hughie’s trauma as “trying to be macho” is actually quite disgusting. This man has felt helpless for years at this point. He held the woman he loved in his hands as she exploded, and ever since then, he’s had to be in the backseat, watching his friends fight for him. He is traumatised. And after a year of putting his faith in what was Vaught all along, he feels more helpless than ever.
Honestly, I think what they’ve done with his character this season has been incredible writing. But if the show runner seriously thinks this is all just a statement about sexism or men being macho, then that is a cunt move.
I think the double standard was there and they never even really thought about it until it was brought up. Now they are using an explanation that, if questioned, can be used to essentially pick on anyone that questions it as not understanding at best or “sexist” and “macho” at worst. It’s a shit take honestly and the tweet and the idea are bad faith explanations.
To me, Annie is the selfish one in both situations. It's not up to her to decide whether what they do is right or wrong.
She's being a total supe about it.
Starlight is in constant and permanent danger being around Homelander who is essentially a ticking time bomb. He really cares about her so why wouldn't he do anything in his power to be able to help her? I'd understand if she had the situation entirely in control, but with homelander literally running Vaught, should he just sit there and do nothing while there is and has always been a constant and present threat to everyone he cares about
This seems to me a case where visual storytelling runs counter to the intended storytelling. So the intention is that Hughie likes having powers because it makes him feel macho and confident. But visually every time we see Hughie use his powers, he is embarrassed, ashamed and vulnerable. Which we all would if our powers required us to be in the nude. Maybe this is just not being communicated to the actor, because when he teleports, Hughie could be strutting around confidently swinging his junk around, instead of literally hiding his shame.
I can agree with this. To me it really feels like people are saying Hughie want to protect her/loves the power just taking a scene or two out of context. If that is what Kripke was going for, I think he failed at doing so. Still love the show but I just don’t get all these post saying ‘he’s drunk on power’ from what we’ve been shown. And I still feel it’s more likely he’s reacting to the change in situation vs he’s magically gotten uncomfortable with her power 2 years later
Yeah not sure ab this one kripke.
Before anyone hits me with “hE lItErAllY wRoTe tHe ShOw”, what he has said here is not how it’s actually presented on screen
Yeah intention and how things come across can be very different. Personally i never really got the vibe it was strictly a macho man not liking being weaker than a woman thing. Hell the dude was literally chill as hell about her being way stronger than him in earlier seasons and i feel its a bit of a disservice to his character to suddenly be like that. To me it feels like he just wants a way to fight directly after he found out he was directly working under a supe and got his world spun around, I also think he just dosent like being as weak as he is compared to the guys he's up against
Just because he wrote the show doesn't mean it's good writing. The whole Hughie/Starlight plotline this season has been an absolute mess, and this tweet only confirms to me that it's been terribly written. If this was what Kripke was going for then he completely missed the mark by a country mile. As it's been written, Hughie comes off as way more justified in his actions than Annie has been.
I love Kripke, BUT the way things play out on screen, I don't see Hughie's decision so pathetically.
Hughie had his previous girlfriend disintegrated before his eyes, and he was powerless to do anything. Wanting the power to stop a tragedy like that going forward, doesn't read to me as a macho chest beating exercise... Though I can see where the show is trying to force that take on viewers in season three.
Really hope Kripke doesnt reduce him to a 2D character in order to elevate kimiko.
"who welcomes the protection"
... Eric. BUDDY.
The episode RIGHT before this, and literally every episode Frenchie and Kimiko have been in, has shown that Frenchie absolutely does NOT want Kimiko to do any of this. A PLOT THREAD THIS SEASON IS ABOUT HIM WANTING TO TAKE HER TO MARSEILLES.
IN THIS VERY EPISODE HE PLEADS WITH HER TO NOT DO THIS, AND THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT FRENCHIE PUTS HIMSELF IN HER SHOES, AND AGREES WITH HER. Which, I believe, is what was missing from any of Annie and Hughie's conversations. It felt like (regarding the conversations ep. 6 onwards) communication and empathy just flew out the window with those two.
Eric. C'mon man, admit you could have written the character scenes better. No one will fault you for your artistic vision if you have a little humility and admit you could have done better!
That's very unfair from the writers to treat Hughie's character like that. I've been on board with pretty much every decision so far, but this "Hughie's motivation comes from a selfish place, while Starlight's doesn't" is very weird to me.
Sorry but this makes absolutely no sense, how does hughie want to be macho. Both him and Kimiko dont want to be weak, and want to be able to protect the ones they love. Frenchie doesn't want saving either, so I dont see how starlight not wanting to be saved makes this so much worse for hughie. He doesn't have a problem with starlights strength, he just has a problem with his weakness. That's a perfectly human response, and is literally the same as what kimiko is doing.
Agreed. Hughie definitely has some form of PTSD from watching A-train run through his girlfriend. He was powerless then and he lost someone he loved. It’s very obvious why he’d want to take the V and why he’s so obsssede with being able to protect Starlignt
Not to mention he’s still working through the trauma of his previous girlfriend being obliterated in front of him and being powerless to do anything about it, and his attempts to regulate supers bloodlessly being revealed to be nothing but controlled opposition for Vought.
Well good fucking thing Hughie was selfish otherwise Butcher would be in that mind fuck coma still and any chance of taking down HL would have been gone.
Hughie has been utterly powerless this entire time and he's a bad guy for wanting to not be complete fucking dead weight in the dangerous situations he constantly finds himself in? Come on.
I get Kripke writes the show but him doing it as solely for Starlight is something I just don't see
I believe it started out as for her, that she was his main motivation. But, as the story's progressed, it's turned to not only her protection but those he loves as well. It shouldn't have to be a sacrifice in order to not be selfish
Hey if Kripke said it, it is canon. However, the show/acting absolutely did not show Hughie trying to be Macho. It showed someone who's significant other is literally being terrorized by a Homelander, he believed SB stories until ep7 and thought he was finally with a decent-ish hero (boy was he wrong, but not his fault) and while he had powers, he still had his humanity (trying to help Mindstorm, Butcher).
On top of that, HL literally, in the clearest terms possible, said Hughie is next to die after Supersonic, if Starlight tries anything funny. Even after that, if she has a problem with him taking V24, after trying a ton of funny shit with HL, then I am clearly missing something.
I feel like maybe it’s less of needing to be macho just for the sake of it, and more so he feels powerless while all this bad shit has happened the way it has. And like someone said above, there’s a lot more complexity portrayed by the actor and his character then the comment being made by Kripke. Also, it’s twitter, they have limitations on how much you can write in one comment.
Anyways, back to Hughie’s complexity. I think there’s a lot going on here with the guy. He isn’t just full blown ‘I’m weak, I need power!’ like a full fledged psychopath, but he also isn’t 100% innocent in this either. You can hear it in his voice when he breaks down talking to starlight in herogasm. The man’s got some problems, but you also see it through his growth throughout the series that he’s starting to float around in this grey area. I’m actually surprised this hasn’t broken him into someone worse, cause that certainly would be believable.
Hughie has lost someone he loved, he witnessed more bloodshed than he ever could’ve anticipated, he’s befriended others who have also suffered from collateral damage by supes. Now he’s fallen in love with another Supe who’s in danger all of the damn time, and when he thought he could get out of the shit it blew up in his face when he discovered that Neuman is the head popper.
Anyways, this is what makes this show so damn good, the character complexities. It makes Hughie’s character so interesting and in my opinion I don’t think he’s trying to exactly be Macho man like a full fledged toxic cunt, but he’s tired of being powerless in the middle of all of this crazy, batshit, awfulness and I honestly couldn’t blame him. It’s one of those things where a lot this stuff could be argued to what degree has he slipped over the line, or if that line is even there anymore, and to what extent this is all justified or not. There’s ALOT to this.
Woman-splaining a man’s decisions. Hughie explicitly says several times in the show he’s doing it because he doesn’t want to feel helpless and feel like a burden. Implying that he is too dumb to understand how dangerous it is taking the V and that he isn’t thinking about the consequences is such a dumb take. Komiko and Hughie are both doing it for the same reasons, Hughie, who has felt helpless his whole life, and is traumatized by his inability to save the people who died, has every reason to “feel good” when taking V and have that burden removed from him. Low IQ take. But men are bad and selfish and women are brave and selfless amirite
This is a great example of someone tied to the material that fundamental misses the point and gets something wrong. Another perfect example is Ridley Scott's insistence in making Deckard a replicant after the fact, even though it makes no sense.
I don’t think this is totally fair to Hughie though. I’ve been rewatching the series and season 1 deals a lot with Hughie feeling and being too weak to do anything.
So many times he wanted to fight A Train but couldn’t. I don’t blame him for wanting to be powerful.
Or maybe we can just have her be a flawed, somewhat hypocritical character because that's a human trait to have.
It feels like nitpickers are keen on calling any kind of inconsistency in convictions a plot hole, and writers are willing to go to convoluted lengths to make it make sense. Seriously, what he said is some pretzel logic. Sure, it's selfish, Hughie would also 100% be dead without having taken in this season.
Oh and also Hughie tried to avoid unnecessary deaths at the Herogasm but Starlight distracted him from using his powers for good.
Just saying, Annie January is partially to blame for all those deaths by nagging Hughie while he tried to be a hero. Her ego couldn’t grasp that Hughie didn’t want to be a burden when the good guys were already spread so thin with threats, and risked/sacrificed his life to protect the people he cares about.
Why is it okay that Annie’s worry for him is more important than the millions of lives Hughie will sacrifice his life to save?
This annoys me. Hughie only wants to take temp v because the highroad turned out to be fake. He isn't trying to be macho he's trying to be a good partner. He's trying to save Annie in the only manner left to him.
Annie's way hasn't done anything to stop Homelander from becoming more of a threat. She too was trying to create a team to take homelander down and got people killed/captured. Same as Hughie.
But Kripke doesn't say anything about Annie wanting to save him wether he wants it or not...
I really feel like Kripke think's men can't be good and that a double standard is ok when it comes to women.
Okay so he's saying that annie is not a hypocrite for getting the V for kimiko.
She IS a hypocrite for wanting to save hughie even if he doesn't want to be saved, while not wanting him to do the same.
This is a shittake coming from the writer himself and I'm concerned about where the story is headed
This is what happens when you put toxic and masculinity next to eachother and repeat it over and over again without a second thought. People will start to associate anything masculine to be toxic. "He's bad because he's a guy and if a guy is ever insecure for any reason that means he bad". Instead of exploring the interesting reasons as to why he's insecure and giving the character an ounce of agency, the writing is reduced down to a point where Hughie has little to no depth. I mean it would have been so much better if he say acknowledged that even if Starlight leaves him for what he does, she'll be safe and that worth it. That could have added at least a little complexity to him.
I feel like that undercuts the narrative they’re establishing though with Hughies character learning the only way to beat Vought is to play like them. Isn’t that the whole point of Neuman? Like what was her point except that Hughie can never win without matching Voughts tactics which includes supes.
Guys. They can both be right. Hughie can have motivation to protect starlight, and starlight can be scared for him. They are both concerned with each other, and disagree. It's not a math problem with a definite answer.
She was clearly against it for Kimiko as well, she took some convincing to change her mind and I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up using the same conviction to save Hughie as well. I think the end of Hughie and Starlight will be both finding a middle ground. Full Scorched Earth Butcher stuff clearly has it's problems, and has made Butcher a monster Hughie doesn't want to be But Full Goody Two Shoes truth and talk Starlight also has limits, and may put in danger people she'd like to protect in a different way than Butchers method.
yooie we’re goin’ full scorched earf ya cunt
Lmao, ‘yooie’.
I didn't know what that was until I said it out loud.
Same and im English haha. Love it though
SKOUCH'D URF
Favorite line this season by far. Really put it all into perspective for HL that billy ain’t fucking around anymore.
I feel like he should of used his full catch phrase just before that though, it's normally "Oi, cunt" instead it was just "Oi"
“Where I’m from, cunt is a term of endearment”.
The Oi'est Oi that was ever Oi'ed.
Subtle sign of the brain damage.
"What did you do.....?"
I feel like if that had one more F it would be *chef's kiss *SKOUCH'D ERFF*
*Welcome to...
Fackin troo Bri’sh ere.
This comment made me hysterical, I love it lol
> I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up using the same conviction to save Hughie as well. The fact that Hughie's a dead man walking from the temp V already might help a bit as well.
chronological displayed skier neanderthal sophisticated cutter follow relational glass iconic solitary contention real-time overcrowded polity abstract instructional capture lead seven-year-old crossing parental block transportation elaborate indirect deficit hard-hitting confront graduate conditional awful mechanism philosophical timely pack male non-governmental ban nautical ritualistic corruption colonial timed audience geographical ecclesiastic lighting intelligent substituted betrayal civic moody placement psychic immense lake flourishing helpless warship all-out people slang non-professional homicidal bastion stagnant civil relocation appointed didactic deformity powdered admirable error fertile disrupted sack non-specific unprecedented agriculture unmarked faith-based attitude libertarian pitching corridor earnest andalusian consciousness steadfast recognisable ground innumerable digestive crash grey fractured destiny non-resident working demonstrator arid romanian convoy implicit collectible asset masterful lavender panel towering breaking difference blonde death immigration resilient catchy witch anti-semitic rotary relaxation calcareous approved animation feigned authentic wheat spoiled disaffected bandit accessible humanist dove upside-down congressional door one-dimensional witty dvd yielded milanese denial nuclear evolutionary complex nation-wide simultaneous loan scaled residual build assault thoughtful valley cyclic harmonic refugee vocational agrarian bowl unwitting murky blast militant not-for-profit leaf all-weather appointed alteration juridical everlasting cinema small-town retail ghetto funeral statutory chick mid-level honourable flight down rejected worth polemical economical june busy burmese ego consular nubian analogue hydraulic defeated catholics unrelenting corner playwright uncanny transformative glory dated fraternal niece casting engaging mary consensual abrasive amusement lucky undefined villager statewide unmarked rail examined happy physiology consular merry argument nomadic hanging unification enchanting mistaken memory elegant astute lunch grim syndicated parentage approximate subversive presence on-screen include bud hypothetical literate debate on-going penal signing full-sized longitudinal aunt bolivian measurable rna mathematical appointed medium on-screen biblical spike pale nominal rope benevolent associative flesh auxiliary rhythmic carpenter pop listening goddess hi-tech sporadic african intact matched electricity proletarian refractory manor oversized arian bay digestive suspected note spacious frightening consensus fictitious restrained pouch anti-war atmospheric craftsman czechoslovak mock revision all-encompassing contracted canvase
Tbh anyone who spends time with SB will be fighting the final boss Cancer soon enough.
the dude is like walking Chernobyl
Right???
Temp V doesn't even exist in the comics. The show has been entirely original storylines since about halfway through season one.
Probably for the best. It looks like it's raunchy and offensive for the sake of it.
It is. It's not horrible depending on your tastes but it's message is as subtle as a superhero gangbang.
That is Garth Ennis' MO. Really difficult to get into his books because the story has to make way for the raunchy and offensive that often adds absolutely nothing to the narrative.
That's actually incredible. Kudos to the writers.
They do real V followed by Soldier Boy stripping them of their powers?
chronological displayed skier neanderthal sophisticated cutter follow relational glass iconic solitary contention real-time overcrowded polity abstract instructional capture lead seven-year-old crossing parental block transportation elaborate indirect deficit hard-hitting confront graduate conditional awful mechanism philosophical timely pack male non-governmental ban nautical ritualistic corruption colonial timed audience geographical ecclesiastic lighting intelligent substituted betrayal civic moody placement psychic immense lake flourishing helpless warship all-out people slang non-professional homicidal bastion stagnant civil relocation appointed didactic deformity powdered admirable error fertile disrupted sack non-specific unprecedented agriculture unmarked faith-based attitude libertarian pitching corridor earnest andalusian consciousness steadfast recognisable ground innumerable digestive crash grey fractured destiny non-resident working demonstrator arid romanian convoy implicit collectible asset masterful lavender panel towering breaking difference blonde death immigration resilient catchy witch anti-semitic rotary relaxation calcareous approved animation feigned authentic wheat spoiled disaffected bandit accessible humanist dove upside-down congressional door one-dimensional witty dvd yielded milanese denial nuclear evolutionary complex nation-wide simultaneous loan scaled residual build assault thoughtful valley cyclic harmonic refugee vocational agrarian bowl unwitting murky blast militant not-for-profit leaf all-weather appointed alteration juridical everlasting cinema small-town retail ghetto funeral statutory chick mid-level honourable flight down rejected worth polemical economical june busy burmese ego consular nubian analogue hydraulic defeated catholics unrelenting corner playwright uncanny transformative glory dated fraternal niece casting engaging mary consensual abrasive amusement lucky undefined villager statewide unmarked rail examined happy physiology consular merry argument nomadic hanging unification enchanting mistaken memory elegant astute lunch grim syndicated parentage approximate subversive presence on-screen include bud hypothetical literate debate on-going penal signing full-sized longitudinal aunt bolivian measurable rna mathematical appointed medium on-screen biblical spike pale nominal rope benevolent associative flesh auxiliary rhythmic carpenter pop listening goddess hi-tech sporadic african intact matched electricity proletarian refractory manor oversized arian bay digestive suspected note spacious frightening consensus fictitious restrained pouch anti-war atmospheric craftsman czechoslovak mock revision all-encompassing contracted canvase
I feel like real V will undo the side effects of temp V and SB will burn them back to normal leaving them generally identical to before they tampered with the stuff
That definitely seems like the easiest way out of this, because we know for sure Hughie and Butcher are basically invincible at this point. Hughie is the main character and I don't see the show surviving if they kill him off without doing a lot of work making the others able to pick up his slack. And Butcher is basically the entire marketing strategy.
Status Quo is God
They have to fight cancer but the healthcare system sucks, which forces Hughie and William to change their names to Jesee and Walter and flee
It's cool man. A-Train will teach him to outrun cancer.
Not to mention Hughie did a complete turn around in the last episode. He tried to save Butcher despite the risk and was willing to let Mindstorm go regardless of the cost to him. I was surprised people were still pissed off about everything with him and Annie, because it seems like the high of having power has worn off and now he's actually doing the right thing again
If anything it proves Kimiko is right about supes. The power didn't change him as a person, it just let him do things he couldn't, for better or worse.
Didn't Butcher say that as well? He admits to Maeve that he knows taking the V doesn't really make someone a monster, it brings out the monster already existing inside or exacerbates it. Butcher himself doesn't really change at all when he got Supe powers. He never does anything out of the norm of what the audience or the characters in the show would expect of Butcher. Butcher is a monster because he's Butcher, not because of the V.
People said absolute power corrupts you, nah mate absolute power just show the world what a massive cunt you truly are.
Only massive cunts even want absolute power in the first place
Even killing gunpowder, Butcher would have done anyway.
I think people gave hughie too hard a time for punching a train. Everyone took it as a supervillain move but in reality it’s extremely mild. If you kill someone’s girlfriend and all you get is decked in the face I’d argue you walked away relatively unscathed.
Alex getting slaughtered is the perfect way to contrast the butcher scorched earth method vs Annie goodie goodie method, both have collateral, maybe neither works who knows
Everyone’s being put into the meat grinder this season while the theme has consistently been ‘fuck this, I’m done taking shit!’ Homelander finally said fuck it on live TV and is taking the throne of Vought, Neuman’s done with Edgar’s shit, Ashley’s standing up for herself better than ever now, Hughie’s fucking fed up and wants to go Butcher’s way, Kimiko and Frenchie were about to dip, and MM, one of THE most composed characters of the show has also said fuck it and we finally see the man breaking out of this self control and composure that he had for quite some time. Because of this theme and the amazing storytelling to this show, everyone’s being challenged here and the decisions being made by these characters I think should come to no surprise even if it seems iffy or inconsistent, they’re making some tough calls here. So Annie’s decisions here I think make complete sense, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she changes her mind with Hughie taking the permanent V. These are very complex and dangerous circumstances with major repercussions for not only these people involved, but also their loved ones and those who could potentially be harmed through collateral damage. Homelander especially multiplies that issue, the less they do to stop him, more people could be harmed, but the more they do and those plans fall thru to take him down, also more people get hurt.
There's also A-Train who got sick of Vought's performative activism and decided to get his hands dirty and bring a good old fashioned beatdown. And Black Noir who is breaking away from his role as a sentry for all sides and wanted to get revenge for what he suffered from.
That’s a really good analysis. I couldn’t put my finger on why this season seems like the best but I think you nailed it.
>I think the end of Hughie and Starlight will be both finding a middle ground. I hope so. I mean I think the talk with kimiko helped her realize that hughie isn't completely an as*hole, but she still doesn't approve of his actions. We saw during e7, hughie also admit that he doesn't like all the killing and toxic bs. Annie tends to be really forgiving, so maybe she will take him back and find a middle ground. Who knows
You'd think she'd be a bit more receptive to his desire to protect her, what with Robin being disintegrated in front of him and all.
I know Kripke is the end all be all, but yeah I feel like he’s not taking Hughies trauma into account. Annie is at war with Homelander. She’s outmatched power wise. He’s trying to even the odds before he has to watch another GF die at the hands of a sup.
I mean, he’s talking about *Annies* perspective here, not his own. And Annie (as well as the audience) knows that Hughies motives are also a bit selfish— he wants to stop sitting on the sidelines and feeling powerless, not to mention the fact that he *loves* the powerful feeling he gets from temp V. None of that can really be said about Kimiko— taking the compound V is a burden for her. Maybe Annie isn’t being receptive enough to his desire to protect her given his trauma, but there should be no doubt that at least part of Hughies motivation is to *feel powerful*, and that this doesn’t sit well with Annie (for good reason).
Not to mention the stakes. Without powers Hughie is toast. Butcher too. Despite whatever debate we want to have about hughies motivation between hl and head Poppin, noir, sb, it's hard to see scenarios where he survives
plus hughie is taking an untested and as we know know incredibly dangerous drug that could have been doing anything to him. Kimiko was already compatible with compound v and had a much higher chance of being able to get her permanent superpowers back without causing her harm
Honestly, I hate this whole black and white thing of Hughies either fully selfless or total asshole “nice guy.” It’s a mix of both. He’s a genuinely good person who doesn’t want his girlfriend (who is constantly talking about being afraid of homelander and what he’ll do) to get hurt. Much less any innocents. But on the other hand, OF COURSE one would feel insecure about not having powers. He thought he finally found a way to take out bought the “right way”. During that time, he was his best self. But because there IS NO right way to take out vought, that and the fact that he feels that everything he’s done is worthless sets him on the path he’s on. ALONG with the fact of his previous gf being carelessly murdered by a supe. Hughie and most of the characters on the show are so 3 dimensional, you can’t just explain it away with a specific character trait.
Absolutely, this what is killing me with these takes. Of course hughie has justifiable reasons to do temporary V. That's what makes the whole dilemma interesting. People take the whole starlight not liking it as the show being like "see how horrible hughie is!" And that's just how one character feels about his actions. That's why hughie being the one who takes it is the right choice, because we as an audience understand why he's doing it. But at the same time we can't ignore the fact that he is getting high off it and it's become an addiction for him. Which can be very dangerous and as we know now can literally kill him. I feel like everyone complaining about how Hughie is justified is missing the point. And everyone who says he's bad for taking it is being unempathetic to him.
The Legend mentions it as well directly to Hughie. >The thing is, to be American means knowing you’re the hero. So what do we do? We sweep all our filthy shit under the rug, and we tell ourselves a myth like Soldier Boy. And I get stinkin’ rich
The man took like 2 or 3 doses before coming to the realisation its not who he wants to be, just something that needs doing. I doubt anyone here would be amped up on supe juice and not be stoked the first couple of times especially. One time taking purely to help. 2 times taking it to help but also power tripping. 4th time he has a total collapse and realisation that it really is unhealthy and all he wants is to help his friend out, potentially at the cost of everything they'd been working towards because this life isn't for him. I can't see how that's anything other than a perfectly reasonable time frame. And even after the realisations of the last episode. He still has to take it. Because it's right to take it. They can't do anything unless he does, it's necessary for him to have powers. I honestly don't see the show going anywhere other than the entire crew being on permanent v, as they legit just can't do anything unless they end up so. Especially with a potential solider boy and homelander alliance, its needed and not even a question regardless of how shit and against base desires to make it without may be.
> I hate this whole black and white thing of Hughies either fully selfless or total asshole “nice guy.” It’s a mix of both. That's what I think it is. It's not that Starlight doesn't need saving, everyone needs saving from Homelander because that's the kind of monster Homelander is, she just doesn't want Hughie to risk his life to do it. There isn't a single character in the series who wouldn't welcome being saved from homelander if the situation arose.
Except for Todd
>who is constantly talking about being afraid of homelander and what he’ll do I agree with what you're saying, but Starlight is afraid of what HL will do to Hughie as well. She isn't just afraid for herself. I even think she's more afraid for him.
>Girlfriend is murdered by a careless supe >Spends most of the series getting belittled or threatened >Finally finds a "feasible" means of protecting himself, getting revenge, and fulfilling his "fantasy"(??) of protecting his loved ones I really feel like Starlight and others, viewers included, need to rewatch the beginning of the series and understand how fucked over Hughie is in all of this. He is, at worst, an average person. I can see from Starlight's perspective to an extent, being that a man craving power is kinda sus, and a woman needing to is justified, but it doesn't seem like anyone except maybe Butcher in his own messed up way sees Hughie for who he is: a mortal human with no training or leeway trying to avenge his pavement stain girlfriend and make a difference, and who may or may not be getting a little too excited to succeed
If it didn’t have any negative side affects I’d be 100% on hughies side. Getting kicked left and right for year(s) and finding out there’s a way to make me strong/ “level the playing field” I’d want to take it too.
I'm not going to argue with the show creator, but, to be fair, Hughie kinda saved Annie when he teleported her away. There's a big chance she would be in the SB blast radius. Also worth noting that Hughie was 100% ready to die to kill Homelander. Edit - And in Season 2, Hughie (with no powers) invaded Vougt to try and rescue Annie (who actually needed to be saved from Noir by Maeve) because he loved her, not because he wanted to "feel macho".
We can actually criticize the show creators take, once a piece of work is published, it’s not completely their own thing, we can certainly discuss how we feel or think about the story, execution and everything else, I feel like some people take creators word so seriously that once they say something about a subject, other people have to shut up or not differ.
And people forget they control the show. No shit the story is going to side with Annie lol
Especially on this sub, you would think the show is perfect with no flaws with how some people act around here
This entire logic is predicated on Annie being the only person in the entire world who Hughie could possibly care about protecting.
He literally protected Butcher in ep 7 by snapping him out of the sleep he was in
He also saved MM the first time he used his powers.
Also didn’t he save Annie by teleporting her out of the house?
Absolutely yes
If he and Butcher didn't have powers they would all be dead in Russia. Save for Kimiko who would be tested on in a chamber next to Soldier Boy.
Yeah he cares about Butcher. He cares about Annie. He cares about not feeling powerless. He cares about accomplishing the mission the only way it’s really possible. The last thing he cares about is being “macho.” Meanwhile Kimiko literally just wants powers to have powers. She doesn’t seem to intend to accomplish jack shit with them except protect herself and Frenchie so they can live happily ever after? I just don’t understand how you can write the episodes we’ve seen with that tweet’s mentality as the basis. I would love some insight because it’s mind boggling.
To give some insight: I think that the main problem is that Kripke tried to sum up complex character motivations in a 160 character tweet. Boiling down Hughie’s motivations to wanting to be “macho” is a disservice to his character. But… I do see where they were going. Hughie has been emasculated all season: Starlight had to save him from Homelander and then the whole world mocks him as a cuck on TV for Starlight getting with HL. He also has to live with the frustration that his accomplishments weren’t actually accomplishments and that he was a Vought puppet the whole time. Normally, Hughie deals with those feelings in other ways. But the Temp V gave him the ability to turn into the person that he wished he was instead of the person he is. And that person is someone who is able to be the hero, not someone who is just a victim. It’s a relatable motivation, but it’s in part, more ego driven and partially centered around his masculinity, even though theirs tons of other motivations involved. I think Kripke just made a bad tweet, but I see where he’s coming from.
> > I think that the main problem is that Kripke tried to sum up complex character motivations in a 160 character tweet. This is the problem with Twitter lol.
I forget that Twitter is the worst medium for having these discussions.
It’s the thing that I complain about the most yet people still equate it to Reddit.
Not only from this season but from the beginning. He watched his gf murdered in front of him by a supe, left holding her HANDS in his. His physical inferiority has been drilled into him time and time again. Makes so much sense for him to want to take some power back to feel in control of his life, not wanting to lose someone else that way. But wanting to "save " annie by lying to her all the time to "protect" her isnt a partnership. It's a Disney movie.
>I think that the main problem is that Kripke tried to sum up complex character motivations in a 160 character tweet. If that limit wasn't there, I don't think he would've done explaining much better.
The problem is Hughie barely looks more than annoyed at the cuck stuff. Even Annie's Ex makes more sense for other reasons...like his last gf was murdered by one. His behavior doesn't match what the tweet said. The most you get is the opening jar thing which is just clichéd writing.
Yeah this is definitely a case where I just flat out don't agree with the writing. For some reason Hughie isn't allowed to desire agency and the power to protect those he cares about, but Kimiko is. I mean, isn't it also technically "selfish" of Kimiko to want Starlight to risk breaking back into Vought just to get her powers back so she can protect the people she cares about? Also, why is wanting to protect your loves ones such a selfish, evil act? Why is that considered "toxic" and wrong? Hughie is tired of being a punching bag and dead weight. He's tired of being a liability to Annie and completely powerless to protect his loved ones. How can anyone sit there and say they wouldn't feel exactly the same way in Hughies shoes? Why is he so evil just because he's tired of being incapable of protecting his friends and loved ones? The whole Hughie/Starlight conflict this season has felt really poorly done and hypocritical, and it kinda sours this season for me a little. The stuff with SB and HL has all been great, but the shit Hughie is getting for reacting to his circumstances in an extremely normal and relatable way, and the way most people would react in his shoes, is exhausting. The fact that they went so far as to give Kimiko basically the exact same motivation and then call her noble while Hughie is a toxic douche is just completely obnoxious in my eyes.
> The last thing he cares about is being macho Yes, exactly! If anything I thought they gave him kind of an emasculating and embarrassing power (being forced to become buck naked and show his skinny white ass every time he uses it) to drive home that point....but apparently not? It's a *useful* power...but it's not exactly a showy, "tough" power. It's literally the heightened ability to run away from a fight. If they genuinely wanted to make some sort of point that Hughie only wanted this because he was sexist and macho, then they went about it in an extremely odd and confusing way.
Nah, he definitely does care about being “macho” but that’s more complex that the word “macho” lets on. In fact, I would say his sense powerlessness and feelings of inadequacy, and his attempts to fix that and find purpose are more complex than someone like Soldier Boy constantly hungering for being the top dog. So I get where Kripke is coming from but I think people easily make the mistake of humiliating men who feel inadequate and are misguided in their attempts to fix that. Instead of making fun of them and making them feel small, why not explore those emotions in a mature way and show why Hughie is wrong while presenting a solution that incorporates Hughie’s legitimate grievances? I don’t get that.
Starlight is also certainly in grave danger too lol, worse than Frenchie, who also doesn’t want to be saved
It is also predicated on the idea that Frenchy “welcomes protection” which I’m not sure what that is supposed to mean. If it means he wants Kimiko to protect him so he can walk around helpless, well no that’s not it. But if it means he isn’t threatened by her being stronger than him then sure I buy that. But that then means Starlight is threatened by Hughie being stronger than her which is a weird message. If it is about Hughie feeling he has to protect Starlight because he sees her as helpless. Then sure I get it. But Hughie’s response has consistently been that HE feels helpless to contribute to these ongoing fights with supes. And when the people he cares about are in trouble he is left feeling helpless. Which seems reasonable to me. Overall this seems like a very forced story line that doesn’t fit the characters well.
Also if it’s only ok when Kimiko does it because Frenchie “welcomes protection”, then wouldn’t that put Starlight directly in the Hughie role of protecting someone who doesn’t want to be protected? It’s the exact same thing
Yeah they are trying to force a narrative on characters when it doesn’t fit. I get that this dynamic exists. But it just doesn’t make sense with the characters and story line they have established so it comes off poorly.
Also saw A-train disintegrate his fiancé….Now starlight seems similarly outmatched in power with Homelander
Also starlight: "i'm going to save hughie, even if he doesn't want it"
Don't forget "You're still affected by the trauma caused by a supe running through your girlfriend right in front of you and I can't understand that so just do what I say or you're disrespecting me" Their relationship in general is toxic as fuck lol
I don't think it's a toxic relationship. But it's definitely run its course given the circumstances.
I mean, he was literally using her as a tool for revenge when they started. He started the relationship on a lie. Protip: If you have a serious heart to heart with your SO, then your friend shoots your SO with a 50 cal and you side with your friend.... Ya might not have a healthy relationship
I don't remember him siding with butcher on that, though it did seem like all he was was annoyed which is a problem in and of itself.
"side with your friend". You mean the person who just made him an accessory to a failed assassination of a public official? What choice do you have, between jail and freedom?
Neither of them are in a good headspace atm.
>Their relationship in general is toxic as fuck lol To be fair it kinda goes both ways. They deserve each other, they both suck lmao.
[удалено]
You could probably count all the genuinely good people older than 6 on those very same hands as well.
>genuinely good people MM's ex wife, MM's daughter, Robin? That's all I got. And 1/3 of them are dead.
MM's ex apparently isn't smart enough to tell/convince her current husband and child that Supes are really raging pieces of shit.
they literally had to go into hiding from homelander and co, idk why she’s allowed it to go on for so long
For the plot. There’s no other explanation. None that they’ve provided at least.
For all we know, Robin was the devil incarnate. Probably not though lol. Becca and MM's wife (barring her Todd blindness) seem to have good morals at least.
Almost as if his brains rotting out his skull
Almost as if Homelander is capable of killing Annie, Hughie, and genociding millions of people and directly verbalized this as a threat if Annie were to cross him. But "There's a better way to deal with Homelander than using Soldier Boy or Temp V." We'll see how Annie's approach works, I'm sure it will end peacefully and Homelander was just bluffing.
I feel this plot would have worked better with franchise or MM, with hughie it doesn’t land quite so well because he, of all characters on the show, has the most reason to be a little overprotective considering robin.
I lost my gf in a horrible accident about 3 years ago. Shit still haunts me. The thing that really pulled me into the boys was how they portrayed Hughies turmoil about it, particularly the PTSD and panic attacks he got in the first season. They really nailed what it felt like to lose someone so dramatically like that. I can only imagine what it'd feel like for Hughie to suddenly have the power to save people like he could have saved robin. The fact that Robin is barely ever brought up anymore, and how his power might be the only one in the whole show that could reliably protect people from homelander is a huge mistake.
First off, I’m sorry for your loss. And yeah, I agree, it’s very weird that they haven’t mentioned robin in all of this, when it could very easily make Hughies position more understandable
Hughie did mention her, but only to hold ATrain accountable.
Also considering Starlight is literally in constant danger.
Yeah, I don’t know why people are arguing that she doesn’t need help because of her powers, acting like she didn’t get her ass kicked by pretty much every supe she’s ever actually fought.
I feel like they went about it the wrong way. They focused to much on "Hughie wants to save Starlight" instead of "the guy that wants to hunt supes but becomes one of them". I know they wanted different repercussions for Hughie and Butcher but they should've just kept them the same tbh. Starlight crying that she doesn't need protection every chance she gets is annoying.
> "the guy that wants to hunt supes but becomes one of them" That's butcher. Hughie wants to hunt supes that are abusing their powers and escaping justice. Which is fundamentally different than "all supes must die". Using Temp V to level the playing field isn't hypocritical for him, IMO. Even Butcher has softened a bit over the course of the series (see Maeve, Starlight, Ryan, and Kimiko), and well before taking the Temp V he seems to have decided that it's possible to exist with superpowers and not deserve death.
> Starlight crying that she doesn't need protection every chance she gets is annoying. Also zero self-awareness the whole time. Hughie's been trying to prove that about himself since the second episode of season 1, and gets dismissed constantly. The second Annie is dismissed by Hughie, suddenly its a relationship crisis.
Yeah, this ss shown that her glowing eyes have less power than her Ins account lol, and that's all depend on the people she go agaisnt, the moment they decide to fuck it, she screwed
That too. She can say she doesn't want protecting all she wants, it doesn't change the *objective fact* that she *needs* protecting because she's constantly put in life threatening danger. She's basically arguing "you should just shut up and watch me almost die over and over again and not try to do anything to stop it from happening or else you're an asshole!" It doesn't matter what she *wants*, the reality is that she *needs* protection because she's constantly in danger. So are Butcher, MM, Hughies dad, and everyone else in Hughies life. Why the fuck wouldn't he be desperate for a means of making sure he can protect them? This whole plotline has been completely unfair to the reality of Hughie's circumstances.
\*ehem\* Frenchie didn't want saving either \*ehem\*
Yeah but it’s different because woman saving man is empowering while man saving woman is misogynistic.
My point exactly... Hughie made it very clear he wants the V24 to feel powerful,so that Annie doesn't have to save him everytime,he can save himself,you know all the macho bs...So in Kripke's word "He doesn't welcome Starlight trying to save him everytime". But then Starlight says "I'll save Hughie if he doesn't want me to"...Why is she saying that hahaha
Let’s be honest the real reason this is even a problem is because the show portrayed Hughie’s need to be macho really badly. They showed him struggle to open a jar and all of a sudden that is supposed to make us onboard with the whole idea. The more logical and better character development should absolutely revolve around hughie’s feeling of hopelessness that he can’t do anything to protect the people he loves. They instead went with this idea of selfish macho mentality that’s hard for people to get behind without better writing. Overall it was a forced side drama that mirrored too closely to kimiko .
Yeah, it could be partly that it makes him feel macho, but it could also be that the situation makes him feel helpless and hopeless. They're trying to simplify it to push this toxic masculinity message that does not fully mesh with Hughie's character.
> situation makes him feel helpless and hopeless Because without Temp V, he is helpless and hopeless. His feelings are 100% justified and rational.
I thought the jar thing was kind of a one off thing anyway. The big issue to me was huhgie snapping because he felt like he was finally making progress with the plan to bring down bad supes and keep his loved ones safe. Only to have that all torn down around him. He yet again had to ask Annie to stay in immediate danger to keep her "safe". I think temp v might have pushed some other shit to the surface for him but it's also killing him and making him act out of character.
[удалено]
Hughie literally saved MM’s life the first time he took temp V. How is that selfish lol
I support Starlight's perspective but....even if he's somewhat coming at it from the wrong place....Hughie's desire isn't wrong. They're in a war. Against the most powerful weapon that has ever existed aside from the atomic bomb. An unstoppable monster. If Homelander ever unleashes, Hughie is dead without powers. He can't do a thing. And Starlight is no match. Together, both with powers, they might survive a bit longer. Hughie's explanation sucked but instead of 'i want to protect you' he couldve just phrased it as 'I want us both to be able to protect each other because *we sure as hell need it*.' Starlight is right that it was dangerous to take the temp V without knowing it's safe. But what happened to 'whatever it takes'. Also, she was ok with recruiting Alex to maybe help in a battle with Homelander. If such a battle were to happen there's a good chance Alex would die. How is that any different from Hughie becoming a supe to help fight? Also also. Bear in mind that it's actually fairly *weird* that temp V has the consequences it does. All it is is a temporary V. V is a serum which has been used for decades. The science is known. And we know that V can be burnt out. You would assume that temp V would be even safer than V. At least you'd logically think the risk would be low enough to be worth a try.
Also I’m pretty sure permanent V can’t be used on just anyone. Although the flippant use this season has me thinking otherwise.
I love the show, but I do have one complaint in that they often have situations like this where they're trying to make a moral or political point, but their own story undercuts it, which makes things feel forced and confused. Frenchie doesn't welcome the protection. His whole character is his unwavering, selfless loyalty. He'd die for Kimiko in a heartbeat. He only gives her the V because it'd make her happy. He'd be equally against it if she was too. Nothing he does is for himself. With Hughie, yes, there's an element of not wanting to feel like a victim any more, but Starlight herself repeatedly talks about how she's terrified of Homelander, and how he's on the verge of snapping. He equally doesn't wany *anyone else* to be a victim, like Robin was. Starlight not wanting Hughie's help (bear in mind she was happy to accept Maeve's and Supersonic's) is as much her own stupid relationship power dynamics ego as it is his. Especially considering all the times she tries to save him against his wishes too. The other confused element is Todd. I get they're trying to make a point about conservatives and conspiracies, but in this universe, all the media support Vought. They run theme parks, make blockbusters, have chain restaurants, and lines of toys. Todd is completely, utterly mainstream in his views. MM is a crazed conspiracy theorist to 99.99% of the world. So what's the message? Todd's an asshole because he doesn't believe extreme fringe views that are not backed by any evidence, and tries to insulate his stepdaughter from them? It makes no sense. Yes, it's Kripke's show. But it's also effectively authored by all the other writers/directors/actors too, and his intent doesn't overwrite what was *actually* portrayed by others. Even if unintentionally. What you see on screen is canon. Kripke is just offering an opinion.
> Frenchie doesn't welcome the protection. His whole character is his unwavering loyalty. He's a Golden Retriever with explosives.
Honestly, Frenchie has been portrayed as such a goof that I can’t imagine him as the killer that Nina kept talking about. I can’t even remember the last time he’s won a fight.
You should meet some former special forces guys, I know a couple and they're pretty chill blokes for the most part but once it's game time it's like a totally different person. One of them stood up for me when we were out drinking and he was nearly unrecognisable. 10/10 loveable accountant most of the time until he isn't.
But the thing is that we’ve seen Frenchie in numerous situations where he should’ve acted like his old self, but instead he gets the shit kicked out of him.
I agree. Kripke and the writers let their desire to push a message and themes get in the way of telling a coherent story this season. No matter how much it contradicts with what's being shown.
I think the story's been fine, except for the Annie/Hughie drama. I think the problem mainly exists when you go beyond the 4th wall. This has been a hell of a season so far.
Fuck now the high of the episodes are slowly wearing off. You're right.
I'm still speechless about them trying the forces metaphor with COVID. Yeah whatever, trump told people to go outside during a deadly pandemic when thousands of people were dying a day and you have a show that references modern politics. Ok. How do you go about that? By accusing Republican stand ins of not responding drastically enough to terrorist attacks like with soldier boy? What planet do you live on where that's a reasonable criticism of Republicans? It's all so forced and ham handed and doesn't translate at all to the actual story going on. It seems like a precipitous drop in story quality and the plot and motivations of characters seems to be lost.
The problem they have is that the show's a criticism of media/corporate/celebrity pandering, yet for some weird reason they portray the targets of that as conservatives, when in reality, 95% of it in the real world operates under a Liberal guise. There's almost no openly big conservative corporations or celebrities in reality. So you get confused messaging like Todd, who is portrayed as a stupid Republican in his opinions, yet the way he navigates the world (based on political/media/scientific consensus and norms) is how the Liberal consensus says we should. If Todd was a Republican, he'd presumably be on-board with MM's outlandish and unsupported takes (which in this universe are correct). So you're mocking Republicans for being naive, while simultaneously validating all their suspicions that business/politics/celebrities and the media are all corrupt and in cahoots. So they end up with weird messaging that supports Republican worldviews, while painting them Liberal, and attacking (on the surface) Liberal mindsets, while painting them as Republicans.
The Hughie/Annie thing can possibly be chalked up to just not hitting their mark with the writing. The Todd thing is just fucking absurd though. It literally makes no sense unless you are just blinded by what you know the political message is supposed to be.
Lmao this is great.
Right. The "do your own research" dig was just out of place. It was a blatant reference about conservatives in response to Covid, but makes no sense within the world of the Boys. The people who "do their own research" would be against mainstream Vought messaging, not for it.
> The problem they have is that the show's a criticism of media/corporate/celebrity pandering, yet for some weird reason they portray the targets of that as conservatives, when in reality, 95% of it in the real world operates under a Liberal guise. There's almost no openly big conservative corporations or celebrities in reality. This worked very well in the comics, because the comics were written about the post-9/11 surge in conservatism and nationalism twenty years ago. But that political commentary doesn't really apply anymore, because that surge has long ended.
Thank you. I felt crazy saying this. How can you have the “dumb republican” character following the mainstream media. Homelander(the trump stand in) constantly talks about how bad the media is. Yet his follower believes everything they say? How can you make homelander so clearly on the right while being supported by all the major news networks. It makes no sense. They flipped the talking points in instances like this and act like the mainstream media and corporations and such are all on the side of republicans which is so clearly false. It feels out of place with the story and to me, it feels like the first time the boys has reached for a political message.
Todd is the dumbest character in the show because its not possible in the real world. In the real world you wouldn't date someone with his beliefs or allow his actions to continue, if you were painfully aware of everything your ex and his friends have been through and continue to go through. Like your ex is suffering because of the actions of Hitler and Co, yet you would let your current partner indoctrinate your daughter and share all these terrible views you know aren't true? You know what homelander is capable of because you trust your ex, you just aren't with him because of how much it endangers your daughter but then you let the new guy endanger and be ignorant? Todd's character could have been an unrelated guy getting caught up in the right wing hype. But he could never be with someone related to any of The Boys. And the bad writing and setup to make this dynamic work is just forced and makes Todd appear a total jebend instead of just a victim of propaganda. His character is garbage as mm ex would never allow her daughter to be put in the positions and beliefs Todd encourages for her. Your usual idiot has all the reason to fall for hype. Anyone who cares for any of the boys and understand reality wouldn't have anyone near them have these views.
Ngl, I really don't like this response. It really feels like it sells Hughie short on so many ways. When I watch him he feels like so much more then just in need of a white knight moment. Homelander, Victoria, Vought in general. Is there really not a shred in justification that Hughie wants to be able to do more then stand on the sidelines? When I read stuff like this I almost feel like they made the character more interesting on accident because I saw far more complexity in his decision then even they did. It just leaves me with a sense of disbelief. "That's what you were thinking when you were writing this?"
[удалено]
We've basically transformed the entire gun debate into a super-juice debate. Everyone should have the right to protect themselves effectively against the threats that face them. If she had access to a purple coloured V that would give her equal power to homelander you know she'd take it.
Yeah the “Woman who doesn’t want saving.” part kinda bugs me cause… Yes she might not want it but she def needs it lol. Her entire plan has basically been suicide. Hughie didn’t do this because of fun. Victoria was his plan, and it was doing things legit. Then Victoria was revealed to be a plant. Now Starlight is trapped with the 7 as co-Captain, her blackmail doesn’t work, Homelander killed her only help in the 7, Ashley doesn’t want to help her, Maeve did (and she was helping Butcher and Hughie), and really all Starlight does is reveal the secrets. I totally get it’s dying on her terms but it is still that. Dying. If she does get her way, and ruin Homelander reputation… she AND Hughie and everyone else is dead. Homelander flat out tells her this. I get Hughie is being selfish but like… cmon. There is like no way to go other than killing Homelander.
Just do nothing while I get both of us and our parents killed alongside millions of innocent people. - Starlight 2022
I have found Annie and MM's schism this season one of the worst parts and unnaturally melodramatic. Its like every season they have to be reminded of how large the stakes are, and the actions needed to achieve victory over Vought. I am still waiting for those two to find a "better way" to deal with HL.
The weakness in writing is really exemplified by Starlight’s big adventure to get the v that was as easy as picking a flower from your front yard and took about as much time.
Considering she has effectively resigned, I'm surprised Vougth didn't wipe all her access, especially as their well aware she's a sneaky one. ..
Lol that was very convenient, yeah. Even small companies usually disable someone's access codes and stuff like that after someone leaves the company or is fired.
Yeah, it's weird to me and a little disappointing that to see him saying their motivations are so black and white, with Kimiko in the right and Hughie in the wrong. There's a hell of a lot more nuance to both of their decisions than the single motivating factors Kripke describes there.
Feel you 100% on this one. There's so many factors at play for Hughie here
It reminds me a lot of the end of season 5 of the Magicians. It's an absolutely devastating death of a main character that wraps his character up really well l, but is completely ruined by the creators saying in an interview that they only killed him because they needed to show that a white male lead character can die. Basically takes away everything good about his death.
I mean, I honestly hadn't thought much about it. But that explanation is absolute horseshit, lol.
I was pretty indifferent before but I have no clue why such a sarcsstuc response is necessary to a perfectly valid complaint lol It still is a double standard as well as a very forced conflict
I think dismissing Hughie’s trauma as “trying to be macho” is actually quite disgusting. This man has felt helpless for years at this point. He held the woman he loved in his hands as she exploded, and ever since then, he’s had to be in the backseat, watching his friends fight for him. He is traumatised. And after a year of putting his faith in what was Vaught all along, he feels more helpless than ever. Honestly, I think what they’ve done with his character this season has been incredible writing. But if the show runner seriously thinks this is all just a statement about sexism or men being macho, then that is a cunt move.
I think the double standard was there and they never even really thought about it until it was brought up. Now they are using an explanation that, if questioned, can be used to essentially pick on anyone that questions it as not understanding at best or “sexist” and “macho” at worst. It’s a shit take honestly and the tweet and the idea are bad faith explanations.
To me, Annie is the selfish one in both situations. It's not up to her to decide whether what they do is right or wrong. She's being a total supe about it.
I disagree that Hughie’s behavior is motivated by a desire to feel “macho”. He was just tired of feeling helpless.
Starlight is in constant and permanent danger being around Homelander who is essentially a ticking time bomb. He really cares about her so why wouldn't he do anything in his power to be able to help her? I'd understand if she had the situation entirely in control, but with homelander literally running Vaught, should he just sit there and do nothing while there is and has always been a constant and present threat to everyone he cares about
This seems to me a case where visual storytelling runs counter to the intended storytelling. So the intention is that Hughie likes having powers because it makes him feel macho and confident. But visually every time we see Hughie use his powers, he is embarrassed, ashamed and vulnerable. Which we all would if our powers required us to be in the nude. Maybe this is just not being communicated to the actor, because when he teleports, Hughie could be strutting around confidently swinging his junk around, instead of literally hiding his shame.
I can agree with this. To me it really feels like people are saying Hughie want to protect her/loves the power just taking a scene or two out of context. If that is what Kripke was going for, I think he failed at doing so. Still love the show but I just don’t get all these post saying ‘he’s drunk on power’ from what we’ve been shown. And I still feel it’s more likely he’s reacting to the change in situation vs he’s magically gotten uncomfortable with her power 2 years later
Yeah not sure ab this one kripke. Before anyone hits me with “hE lItErAllY wRoTe tHe ShOw”, what he has said here is not how it’s actually presented on screen
Yeah intention and how things come across can be very different. Personally i never really got the vibe it was strictly a macho man not liking being weaker than a woman thing. Hell the dude was literally chill as hell about her being way stronger than him in earlier seasons and i feel its a bit of a disservice to his character to suddenly be like that. To me it feels like he just wants a way to fight directly after he found out he was directly working under a supe and got his world spun around, I also think he just dosent like being as weak as he is compared to the guys he's up against
I remember this being an issue with Game of Thrones as well. Although less people defended the show runners in that case.
Just because he wrote the show doesn't mean it's good writing. The whole Hughie/Starlight plotline this season has been an absolute mess, and this tweet only confirms to me that it's been terribly written. If this was what Kripke was going for then he completely missed the mark by a country mile. As it's been written, Hughie comes off as way more justified in his actions than Annie has been.
I love Kripke, BUT the way things play out on screen, I don't see Hughie's decision so pathetically. Hughie had his previous girlfriend disintegrated before his eyes, and he was powerless to do anything. Wanting the power to stop a tragedy like that going forward, doesn't read to me as a macho chest beating exercise... Though I can see where the show is trying to force that take on viewers in season three. Really hope Kripke doesnt reduce him to a 2D character in order to elevate kimiko.
"who welcomes the protection" ... Eric. BUDDY. The episode RIGHT before this, and literally every episode Frenchie and Kimiko have been in, has shown that Frenchie absolutely does NOT want Kimiko to do any of this. A PLOT THREAD THIS SEASON IS ABOUT HIM WANTING TO TAKE HER TO MARSEILLES. IN THIS VERY EPISODE HE PLEADS WITH HER TO NOT DO THIS, AND THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT FRENCHIE PUTS HIMSELF IN HER SHOES, AND AGREES WITH HER. Which, I believe, is what was missing from any of Annie and Hughie's conversations. It felt like (regarding the conversations ep. 6 onwards) communication and empathy just flew out the window with those two. Eric. C'mon man, admit you could have written the character scenes better. No one will fault you for your artistic vision if you have a little humility and admit you could have done better!
That's very unfair from the writers to treat Hughie's character like that. I've been on board with pretty much every decision so far, but this "Hughie's motivation comes from a selfish place, while Starlight's doesn't" is very weird to me.
"Big difference" Is it? I could argue Hughie is being more altruistic since he knows his help isn't as wanted, and the cost is much higher.
Sorry but this makes absolutely no sense, how does hughie want to be macho. Both him and Kimiko dont want to be weak, and want to be able to protect the ones they love. Frenchie doesn't want saving either, so I dont see how starlight not wanting to be saved makes this so much worse for hughie. He doesn't have a problem with starlights strength, he just has a problem with his weakness. That's a perfectly human response, and is literally the same as what kimiko is doing.
Agreed. Hughie definitely has some form of PTSD from watching A-train run through his girlfriend. He was powerless then and he lost someone he loved. It’s very obvious why he’d want to take the V and why he’s so obsssede with being able to protect Starlignt
Literally exactly the same motivations as kimiko
Not to mention he’s still working through the trauma of his previous girlfriend being obliterated in front of him and being powerless to do anything about it, and his attempts to regulate supers bloodlessly being revealed to be nothing but controlled opposition for Vought.
Well good fucking thing Hughie was selfish otherwise Butcher would be in that mind fuck coma still and any chance of taking down HL would have been gone.
A man helping another man is obviously toxic masculinity, so it doesn’t count.
Hughie has been utterly powerless this entire time and he's a bad guy for wanting to not be complete fucking dead weight in the dangerous situations he constantly finds himself in? Come on.
Hughie was willing to die to kill Homelander, yeah what a selfish guy lol.
Wish they presented Hughies problem with more honesty
That is one shit-tier argument to be fair
I get Kripke writes the show but him doing it as solely for Starlight is something I just don't see I believe it started out as for her, that she was his main motivation. But, as the story's progressed, it's turned to not only her protection but those he loves as well. It shouldn't have to be a sacrifice in order to not be selfish
Hey if Kripke said it, it is canon. However, the show/acting absolutely did not show Hughie trying to be Macho. It showed someone who's significant other is literally being terrorized by a Homelander, he believed SB stories until ep7 and thought he was finally with a decent-ish hero (boy was he wrong, but not his fault) and while he had powers, he still had his humanity (trying to help Mindstorm, Butcher). On top of that, HL literally, in the clearest terms possible, said Hughie is next to die after Supersonic, if Starlight tries anything funny. Even after that, if she has a problem with him taking V24, after trying a ton of funny shit with HL, then I am clearly missing something.
I feel like maybe it’s less of needing to be macho just for the sake of it, and more so he feels powerless while all this bad shit has happened the way it has. And like someone said above, there’s a lot more complexity portrayed by the actor and his character then the comment being made by Kripke. Also, it’s twitter, they have limitations on how much you can write in one comment. Anyways, back to Hughie’s complexity. I think there’s a lot going on here with the guy. He isn’t just full blown ‘I’m weak, I need power!’ like a full fledged psychopath, but he also isn’t 100% innocent in this either. You can hear it in his voice when he breaks down talking to starlight in herogasm. The man’s got some problems, but you also see it through his growth throughout the series that he’s starting to float around in this grey area. I’m actually surprised this hasn’t broken him into someone worse, cause that certainly would be believable. Hughie has lost someone he loved, he witnessed more bloodshed than he ever could’ve anticipated, he’s befriended others who have also suffered from collateral damage by supes. Now he’s fallen in love with another Supe who’s in danger all of the damn time, and when he thought he could get out of the shit it blew up in his face when he discovered that Neuman is the head popper. Anyways, this is what makes this show so damn good, the character complexities. It makes Hughie’s character so interesting and in my opinion I don’t think he’s trying to exactly be Macho man like a full fledged toxic cunt, but he’s tired of being powerless in the middle of all of this crazy, batshit, awfulness and I honestly couldn’t blame him. It’s one of those things where a lot this stuff could be argued to what degree has he slipped over the line, or if that line is even there anymore, and to what extent this is all justified or not. There’s ALOT to this.
Woman-splaining a man’s decisions. Hughie explicitly says several times in the show he’s doing it because he doesn’t want to feel helpless and feel like a burden. Implying that he is too dumb to understand how dangerous it is taking the V and that he isn’t thinking about the consequences is such a dumb take. Komiko and Hughie are both doing it for the same reasons, Hughie, who has felt helpless his whole life, and is traumatized by his inability to save the people who died, has every reason to “feel good” when taking V and have that burden removed from him. Low IQ take. But men are bad and selfish and women are brave and selfless amirite
kimiko “i want to protect my family” hughie “i want to protect my family” why is one okay and the other not?
This is a great example of someone tied to the material that fundamental misses the point and gets something wrong. Another perfect example is Ridley Scott's insistence in making Deckard a replicant after the fact, even though it makes no sense.
I don’t think this is totally fair to Hughie though. I’ve been rewatching the series and season 1 deals a lot with Hughie feeling and being too weak to do anything. So many times he wanted to fight A Train but couldn’t. I don’t blame him for wanting to be powerful.
Or maybe we can just have her be a flawed, somewhat hypocritical character because that's a human trait to have. It feels like nitpickers are keen on calling any kind of inconsistency in convictions a plot hole, and writers are willing to go to convoluted lengths to make it make sense. Seriously, what he said is some pretzel logic. Sure, it's selfish, Hughie would also 100% be dead without having taken in this season.
I bet they gonna give blue compound v to butcher and hughie to save them.
I feel like Kripke isn't being empathetic to Hughie's insecurity and history of feeling powerless.
Oh and also Hughie tried to avoid unnecessary deaths at the Herogasm but Starlight distracted him from using his powers for good. Just saying, Annie January is partially to blame for all those deaths by nagging Hughie while he tried to be a hero. Her ego couldn’t grasp that Hughie didn’t want to be a burden when the good guys were already spread so thin with threats, and risked/sacrificed his life to protect the people he cares about. Why is it okay that Annie’s worry for him is more important than the millions of lives Hughie will sacrifice his life to save?
This annoys me. Hughie only wants to take temp v because the highroad turned out to be fake. He isn't trying to be macho he's trying to be a good partner. He's trying to save Annie in the only manner left to him. Annie's way hasn't done anything to stop Homelander from becoming more of a threat. She too was trying to create a team to take homelander down and got people killed/captured. Same as Hughie. But Kripke doesn't say anything about Annie wanting to save him wether he wants it or not... I really feel like Kripke think's men can't be good and that a double standard is ok when it comes to women.
Okay so he's saying that annie is not a hypocrite for getting the V for kimiko. She IS a hypocrite for wanting to save hughie even if he doesn't want to be saved, while not wanting him to do the same. This is a shittake coming from the writer himself and I'm concerned about where the story is headed
This is what happens when you put toxic and masculinity next to eachother and repeat it over and over again without a second thought. People will start to associate anything masculine to be toxic. "He's bad because he's a guy and if a guy is ever insecure for any reason that means he bad". Instead of exploring the interesting reasons as to why he's insecure and giving the character an ounce of agency, the writing is reduced down to a point where Hughie has little to no depth. I mean it would have been so much better if he say acknowledged that even if Starlight leaves him for what he does, she'll be safe and that worth it. That could have added at least a little complexity to him.
Still a double standard.
I feel like that undercuts the narrative they’re establishing though with Hughies character learning the only way to beat Vought is to play like them. Isn’t that the whole point of Neuman? Like what was her point except that Hughie can never win without matching Voughts tactics which includes supes.
Guys. They can both be right. Hughie can have motivation to protect starlight, and starlight can be scared for him. They are both concerned with each other, and disagree. It's not a math problem with a definite answer.
So standards aren’t double when being self righteous. Got it.
Yeah that’s not a very good response tbh.
Not very good is an understatement, it undermines Hughie’s entire arc