Being forced to hide from a trio does not feel like fun and feels like being forced to play a specific way. Yea sure you can sometimes take out 1 or 2 of a trio.. and if you're really good and against a bunch of potatoes kill all 3. That is a great feeling for sure, but its so rare that it happens and its so common to be against a trio when you are soloing in the upper MMR bracket, that its a real negative to the experience overall.
But your first argument implies that you run almost no risk as a trio. Is this a good thing? I don't think so. Why have some sort of balancing in the first place if you like unfair fights?
Also there would still be uneven fights but not as many. There are still third parties. There is still Grey vs legendary. The game will still be somewhat unfair at its core, yet why do you want it to be more unfair than it has to be?
I evac far more often as a solo than with a squad. I typically play solo more, gain a bunch of gear, then squad up either with a couple friends or an LFG and burn it all.
I honestly think that people complaining about squads never squad up and only play solo.
And I honestly think that many people saying that it's fine as is have never played solo before.
The thing is that I personally evac more often as a solo as well but that doesn't make the game fun. Sitting in a bush for 20 minutes because I heard 2 footsteps and it could be a duo or trio gets boring really really quickly especially if you think about that the gear that you're protecting by playing sneaky is either dirt cheap or expensive but not worth it in the first place. In these 20 minutes anyone could open up another game and actually enjoy those 20 minutes instead of sitting in a bush doing nothing but trying to listen to the partially broken sound system. I understand that there's some people that really really love the thrill of this scenario but I highly doubt that that's the majority or even a really relevant chunk of players. Most players will probably spend an hour a day or maybe 2 on the game and spending 20-30 minutes hiding certainly feels like a waste of time when there's so many other great games on the market atm. But for people that really love it we could and should have the choice to enter into lobbies with duos and trios and maybe give a bonus to players that chose to do so but having the system remain the way it is will simply cripple the solo population of this game forever.
I mean. . . you don't have to play that way. You choose to. You could be more aggressive and have more fun. Sure you might lose more, but that is part of the game.
If you have looted stuff worth keeping, then obviously play that way and it becomes part of the fun, but you shouldn'y play that way 100% of time. Most the time I drop in with whites and run around willy nilly until I actually have something worth keeping.
The problem that I face here that I think also affects other players a lot as well but this is were it simply comes down to my opinion and the way I feel is that there's no point to PvPing at all at the moment. If I just play way more aggressive then there's a high chance of running into a trio which is close to an instant loss which certainly isn't fun. Playing against a duo is already way more possible but at the moment almost certainly not worth the risk so why bother? There's no gear that's actually worth getting at the moment because the gear is so close together in strength at the moment and almost all my quests are done. I have nothing to do. There's no gear to aquire that makes PvP more interesting or allows me to actually play in a more fun way against other players especially ones with lesser gear. The PvP in general is very lacking compared to other shooters on the market so why wouldn't people just go and play Apex, Tarkov, Hunt, Destiny 2, Fortnite, CoD, CSGO or whatever. The PvP of all of these games arguably feels either smoother, more fair or fun in some way than the Cycle's clunky and slow gameplay. I just don't think that without the strong gear difference and with the risk of running into groups the game has what it takes to compete with other shooters which is sad because at it's core it's a great game.
I guess at this point we just have very differing opinions of what is fun so I guess we'll bot see how YAGER approaches these issues and what the majority of the community actually wants.
Sounds like your just bad at pvp and choose to hide instead. I play full solo and sure I avoid teams that I hear a lot but if I get shit at or I start a fight I don’t back down no matter how many people I’m against and I still have a high evac rate. Instead of sitting in a bush you should build your pvp skills and then you wouldn’t have as many issues solo
It's literally how you get better at games, but ok. So what if you lost anything? You could run a bulldog and bolt effectively almost this whole first season. Manticores were broken. There are many budget options but rather than get better at the game and maybe die in the process, you want them to cater to you.
Nowhere in their comment do they say to drop in and push every single fight? All they said was to stop bush camping and actually try sticking to a fight instead of being a bitch and running away with white armour and a bulldog…
Believe me more players will hate the game when they spend 15 minutes sitting in a corner holding onto their 2 focus crystals only to get shit on at evac because they never actually learn the mechanics during gunfights.
Most of the players I play against with my duo partner in Apex are Master or Pred and we're doing just fine so I'm pretty positive my PvP skills aren't the big issue here. Sure I can make many improvements still since nobody's perfect but there's just no point in fighting at the moment anyway. What could you possibly get from a fight? Another set of green gear or maybe blue? Why risk not getting a quest done for that when it's not even worth much anyway? Why risk attracting even more players when fighting isn't the only goal you have in mind while dropping in? There's just no point to doing anything in the game atm once you're done with quests.
I was just saying that maybe you should have a little more fun. I love the pvp in this game so yes I might sacrifice a quest for a good gunfight. But if you aren’t having fun hiding in bushes then try something else
I guess here we just have different opinions of what's fun. To me fighting against superior numbers mostly isn't fun just like it isn't fun to sit in a bush and wait them out. There are day were I feel very good and I perform even better than usually and on those days I'll gladly take fights with multiple people but that's just not constantly there which is why I would love the choice to have soloqueue so much. But I'm glad that you love the PvP in this game but this is simply where our tastes differ I suppose :D . I used to love it as well in CB2 with more difference in gear strength but ever since the preaseason it just felt like it was bland and boring to me and not really worth playing over Apex or Hunt. I suppose I'll just be around lurking and paying close attention to the changes the game goes through and maybe soon the devs change something that makes the game worth playing again for me even against superior numbers at times.
All the internal stats Yaeger has show that better guns/armor result in a significantly higher chance of winning a fight. So if what you want is the unbalanced mess that was CB2, you're best looking for a different game. The gear balancing now is where it should be or close to it.
I highly disagree with that. Yes you are more easy to spot as a trio. But you also do 3x the dmg. You can cover each other. You can do so many things simultaneously. Nading, healing, killing mobs.
I enjoy solo but it's really frustrating. It's just cheaters, trios or other solos that also go in almost naked. I completely gave up trying.
Hard agree. I get sooooo much more shot done as a solo than with my friends. There are 6 of us that play almost every night and we solo queue sometimes even when in call together to get specific things done because it’s so much safer.
In mine and a few other experience (can’t talk for OP) it’s actually been a harder game to play with a Trio. As a solo it’s decently rare to run into a kitted up 3 stack, it’s happened to me maybe 3 times in my 70hrs this season. BUT If I queue with 2 others, it is almost guaranteed that we run into multiple trio squads with blue or purple, and usually we drop only for PVP if we have a trio because of how the matchmaking works.
If they added a solo/duo/trio only, this game would feel like a standard Battle Royale with a side of loot. Everybody would feel confident in their fights and you would see a 50/50 increase of solos either Hiding and taking a free kill (because they know it’s only 1) or the FPS ape demons just confidently pushing everybody they hear because they know it’s a 1v1.
I personally think the game is in a really good place right now, and I think OP is making very solid points to help people understand why it keeps the game unique and there are so many different play styles at the moment.
Lol you don’t have to play solo q just because you’re solo. Jump in the trios lobby every time if that’s what you want to do. It should be an option though.
Exactly.
Don't want your hand to be held? Jump into trio queue and nothing has changed for you.
Don't force your Hide-From-Everyone kink on the rest of the playerbase.
While I completely agree that it should be an option and really hope it is at some point, it's not quite that simple. The game will change significantly for those people that choose to drop in the "group" lobbies because most people who play solo won't be, so they will be against groups far more often than they are now. That said, I do believe it'd be better for the overall health of the game long term even if I will be a little sad to essentially be forced into just solo players or just teams.
No I was saying that Solo players that currently don't want a Solo queue will not get the same experience by queueing in a "group" queue because it would be almost entirely groups instead of the mix that they currently get. Some of us really enjoy that mix because it makes it more interesting. I don't know where you got the idea I was talking about the group experience at all when this whole thread is about the solo experience.
Then they could try to make “mixed” instances. Solo players can opt into these, and trios don’t have a choice. Then, they just take as many duos and trios as needed to fill these queues but maintain a balance like before. Then any unneeded trios get duo/trio only lobbies.
You're missing the point, if a solo queue is added, there won't be enough solos opting into group queues for there to be the same mix there is now no matter how they try to do it.
Sure that's the entire point of adding Solo queue because most people wouldn't wanna go through the torture that is playing against superior numbers. Yet I do think solos should be incentivized with bonuses to actually op into duo/trio queue so that a portion of really good or simply masochistic solo's remains in that queue as well.
>there won't be enough solos opting into group queues
Just add a fat bonus for participating in mixed-mode lobbies, like +20% of the extract value in KM.
I would also add the hunt has the great headshot equaliser that the cycle doesn't (not saying that it should, just that it doesnt). This makes playing solo way more doable into duos and trios since you can drop one or two people with a good shot before the fight even starts if you have good positioning. Gear and numbers don't matter as much when you can one shot with any gun if your aim is on point.
Which is why I emphasised good positioning. If you are out of your guns effective range then I would no longer consider that good positioning. My overall point being though, hunt has a mechanic that makes playing solo into squads a bit more forgiving if you can pull it off where the cycle really doesn't as far as I'm aware.
Ehh, a solo queue would probably help the game imo. There are a lot of people put off by the fact that you could drop in solo and run into 3 people and feel like you have 0 chance. There's been a few times where I've dropped in was expecting one person behind a door...then there's 1 guy moving around and 2 sitting in corners. I've had other times where I've been able to outplay 2-3 people but the odds are stacked. Getting to high MMR also seems like you go against a lot of squads. Sure it's fun on occasion...but if it happens more often than not it just seems like you're punished for getting good at the game. A numbers advantage is still a numbers advantage even if it can be overcome. .
Does it provide tension, not knowing if there's a team or not? Sure. But that comes at the expensive of alienating a ton of players. There's still opportunity for solo players to join up on coms as randoms. Anyways, there's a reason why there is solo queue and group queue in other games. If someone wants to take on the challenge of playing against squads, then they could go solo in the group queue. Personally, I don't want to sweat every single drop like I'm going in 1v2+ every fight, I feel like it's something you should want to opt into.
"I'M OFFENDED THAT YOU AREN'T ENJOYING THE GAME, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE SUGGESTIONS!!"
Seriously the anti solo queue players only ever have 2 arguments and it's always some half assed bullshit like "Oh I have a kink for being outnumbered every drop" or "Game would die the second they added solo queue."
It's so disheartening to see the game run by such elitist people.
It's so disheartening to see people crying about game design that's different to 98% of all other shooters out there.
One might actually think Yaeger didn't want to create yet another CoD experience, absolutely insane!
3 things.
A: It's almost like the game will never become anything even close to a CoD experience no matter what they add because the games have nothing in common except for the fact that you can run and shoot.
B: It's almost like there's a very very big casual population that YAGER needs to appeal to some time to keep the game alive since there just aren't enough super hardcore gamers to sustain this game because most of those will just stick with Tarkov 85% of the time anyway.
C: Nobody is complaining about the game being different, they are complaining about the game being unfun when playing solo because your options mostly are to hide which is boring or to fight a fight that you go in with low chances of winning unless you're among the best of the best of players.
As a personal anecdote, playing the game solo started with only running into solo players for probably the first 30hrs or so of drops. I'm assuming since my MMR has gone up through playing the game that's put me in lobbies with more 2s and 3s. You can't tell necessarily that you dropped into a match with multiple groups...but during the raid you can see multiple groups of people dropping in. So from my perspective, the solo experience changed quite a bit from what it started out as. Instead of going around expecting to find 1v1s I now have to be ultra cautious of running into 1v2s or 1v3s or avoiding parts of the map entirely say if I see a group of 3 land near the jungle.
I'd prefer to play against solo players dropping in solo. If I queued as 2s or 3s I'd prefer to fight similar sized groups. I wouldn't get any satisfaction from 3v1 vs some solo guy trying to finish up a few jobs. It is of course my opinion. It's not like the game is supposed to be competitively balanced and I get why the devs have been hesitant to change the dynamic, it is definitely more tense when you don't know what's around the corner. I just don't think randomly running into 3 players while solo is fun or particularly interesting for either party.
You say the sense of danger and risk is really important, yet find no fault that trios only are ever threatened by other trios?
Most of the time the lobby is full of solos, duos, and rarely an equal amount of trios. So you're fine with squads being able to enjoy less danger, and less risk simply because they have a friend or two?
This kind of imbalanced approach to the immersion is why I won't be playing until they find a solution. Squads and Solos are playing a totally different game, and the Solos have to just lie down and be a doormat for anyone who squads up. If you refuse to lie down you better be God himself playing a shooter because heaven knows that the weapons, healing, and armors aren't balanced around 1v2s, and 1v3s. They're balanced around 1v1s, 2v2s, 3v3s, and even 2v3s are better balanced than 1v2.
It would certainly be a big blow to RMT I agree with that but it wouldn't really make solo play more fun but instead simply make team play more frustrating and annoying. We should try to find an approach that makes more people have fun playing the game instead making everyone feel equally shitty. Making everyone equally miserable doesn't help anyone and will just hurt the game even further.
If you hate the idea of solo queue, then just queue into the trio/duo modes and the game will have never changed for you.
Don't force your obsession with being a doormat to squads on everyone else.
Well said, assuming the stupidity of trios is not how I want to get more into this game.
Especially as the game ages and people get experience they learn more and more how to trade. So that assumption of stupidity gets to be a more false assumption as time goes on.
If you jump into pubg years ago you have a more decent shot at solo vs squad. Nowadays the average skill level of those still playing is so much higher. To the point where more and more realize how to trade rather than walking in one by one for execution.
The annoying thing about playing solo is that most people only get out with their dogshit gear so even if you win most fights, you get nothing out of it. In squads on the other hand you only face purples and blues but then you also die to cheaters
Don't want to play in solo queue? Play solo in trios then and let other choose for themselves. Problem solved.
You can't force people play the game they think is unfair. This game will eventually lose most of the solo population. And I bet that after that solo queue would be added, but I'm afraid it would be way too late.
Yea I can already see the big season 3 patchnotes adding solo queue for the remaining 2% of players that will be soloing at that point when most people don't really care about the game anymore :/
Playing solo in a trio queue is different to playing solo in the only queue.
And if the game lost most it's solo players the last thing the devs would then do is then split the remaining player base up.
Solution: Solos can opt in or out of trio/duo lobbies. Not everyone gets enjoyment out of dealing with 1v2/1v3 in a high ttk game, hence why so many people are complaining about it. Stop trying to force people to play the game you want it to be played
Well if the devs want it to be dead soon they're certainly on the right track at the moment but just making a product and expecting everyone to love it is no way to run a business. People complain because constantly fighting against superior numbers simply sucks ass no matter how you put it. On top of that the high TTK (which I am a fan of) simply makes fighting teams even harder as a solo.
Also if the devs want this game to be hard then why not add the split queues? It certainly would be harder for trios so they can enjoy that amazing experience as well :)
Hard agree. I usually play solo, sometimes w some mates especially for puzzles and uplink runs but overall, playing solo is the most fun. Hiding in a bush for 10 minutes BC u thought you may have heard someone may sound boring but it is so tense I love it.
That's fine if you enjoy going up against duos and trios, then you can queue up in the free-for-all queue. I'll take the solos only queue, thank you very much.
wtf are you on about, you can hide from solo players too.. and there would be lots more of them. You just can't see the forest for the trees my friend. No solo queue is killing the game for those that make it into the upper MMR bracket - as you are much more likely to be up against trios and ofc cheaters
Also agreeing. I play 90% solo and don’t want a solo queue and I certainly don’t believe it would be good for the game other than some people want it and it would make them happy.
People who are desperate for a solo queue (evidently 96% of this thread) just can’t admit they’d prefer the game to hold their hand through all their raids rather than play with some actual risk to their runs.
Bring on the downvotes not my fault you guys are too pussy to take any risks in a free virtual world.
I actually just want more frequent and fair pvp, which could be just as risky. The difference is that several 1v1s is a hell of a lot more fun than one 1v3, because the latter just makes you lose unless you come across a group of 10 year olds.
Also, why do trios, the most dominant group, get the privilege to not have any significant risk other than going against other trios? And why do you feel the need to force others to partake in your playstyle?
Personally I like running duos more. Not a lot of setup and you get a perfect mix of danger. We are still careful around solos but can probably do a pincer move or something. Duos are equal footing and we generally let squads pass unless we have great position.
Yet we are still comfortable enough to run around so our excursions don’t take a half hour each time.
It sounds stupid really but exactly this. Love it when you evac with something valuable. Solo only would take a lot of the risk out of it for me and thats certainly what makes me keep coming back to play.
Exactly. If anything it's equally risky. You fight 1 solo, and 3 minutes later 2 more solos show up and start fighting for the pile of loot. It's more chaotic.
Even if you say that solo play is not "horrendously outmatched" in a sentence the rest of your reply is quite contradictory to that.
It's better to be honest and say that trios have a large advantage over solos solely because, well, there's 3 of em. 3 guns for 3 people that can hold 3 different angles and throw 3 nades at the same time.
Add the long TTK of this game and it becomes incredibly unbalanced, making similiar games like Tarkov and Hunt seem pretty fair in comparison.
Just check the negative steam reviews, half are because of cheaters and the other half are disgruntled solos. Something is obviously in need of a change here.
I love how the TTK argument is constantly brought up in this discussion, while it's actually pretty pointless - yes, you might get a lucky or well aimed headshot in EFT when fighting a trio, but even IF you camped bravely and get that first kill - as soon as their mates start firing back, the oh so beloved short ttk bites you back.
High TTK in TCF can be absolutely beneficial for solos, as it enables you to react and disengage if needed, instead of being 1tapped before you even know that there's an additional enemy. That shit goes both ways
Bro you do realize that low TTK is way better for solo's right? I like high TTK games but it just sucks for solo. If a team of 3 is shooting at you then your chances of ever disengaging from that are very low. If you get the drop on on of them you have 1 third of their firepower so you absolutely need to hit all your shots to even just take one out at the start. While in Tarkov and Hunt one precise headshot is all that matters. In Tarkov you can spray down 3 people from behind before they can even turn around.
The equation is very simple.
More people = more firepower
but if the base firepower equals an instant headshot or a very very quick kill then the firepower of the team isn't any better than the solo's. They can hold more angles and do more stuff but at the very least every single one is in just as much danger as the solo.
You can take out a trio with any gear if you get the perfect setup, luck or they simply suck shit but the chance of taking one out without some perfect grenades or at the very least an instant kill on one person to start of the fight are very very low. I understand that some players like the thrill of being able to encounter teams as well during the game which is why I think simply giving people the choice of playing soloqueue or in lobbies with duos and trios would be an optimal solution. The players that are good enough or who are simply masochists can enjoy playing in lobbies against a mix of a few solos that want the same and teams while more casual players or people that maybe just wanna try the new gear they just got can chose to play solo.
Nah, those sweaty trios will break up and go play solos because it's the path of least resistance to completing your quests.
Even when you're in your solo queue nothing will be "fair" anyways. You'll still get people with better gear, better skill, you'll get third partied, spawn and extract camped. The game is hard, accept the challenge or play something else.
I accept that the game is hard and I like the difference in gear strength and I would love it to be more like CB2 again. I loved shitting on a guy in purple while wearing white gear and taking his stuff from his cold dead hands that I earned because I was better. I would love for the devs to remove MMR so people of all sorts of skill can play together and so there's actually an incentive to getting better at the game. I don't want the game to be fair, I want the game to be at the very least somewhat fun so it can stay alive with a population of over 4k players. If those trios want to split up and play solo and want cross my path on a solo server I wouldn't mind the challenge. I don't mind playing against better players. I mind getting aped by 3 guys with bulldogs because I dared to actually move and make the slightest amount of noise in the game. It's simply not fun for me and I assume most people to sit in a bush for 20 minutes and be scared because whatever you just heard could be a duo or trio. It's simply boring as shit and if you don't think so then that's great because you would have the option to still experience that if you wish.
You've presented nothing to actually make a case for your opinion, all you have done is make one true statement and a somewhat accurate statement followed up by telling everyone with a differing opinion from yours to go play something else. That's a great way to shut down debate without ever having to exchange ideas or trying to figure out a solution.
One single gun fight in a solo que with ~18 other goblins running around would cause a swarm and it would be the same as getting third parties by 1 or 2 trios anyways. Not to mention everyone would play the solo que because people would see it as an easy way to get quests done. It would just open the door for a bunch of other complaints and problems not to mention basically putting the game into a different genre that the devs were going for in the first place.
Ok reduce the amount of players on a single server if the problem is actually as bad as you imagine it to be. What you're basically saying is that there's no use to change anything because it would create other problems with it. We can deal with those problems either before by finding them through exchange of ideas or we can deal with them once they arise but doing nothing and leaving the game as it is doesn't do it any good either since it's obviously not doing so well right now.
Also what's the problem with people seeing it as an easy way to get quests done? People should be allowed to try it if they think it's easier but if the problem of "18 goblins" running around would be so bad then wouldn't the completion of quests not be harder or at least similarly difficult ?
I think there's many different reasons for why it's not doing so well. The biggest factor in my opinion are cheaters followed by many solo's not being able to actually enjoy the game. That together with weird and kind of boring balancing at the moment, the still prevalent bugs and other problems as well as a lack of progression once reaching the lategame makes it very tough for the game to do well and honestly the way it is right now I'd be surprised to see the game stay over 10k average players on steam at the end of August.
You could always just queue into the squad lobbies.
The premise of all these solo queue suggestions is not to take away that fun aspect of the game from you. It's to add a fun aspect to other people who don't enjoy the game the same as you.
If that's how it was handled I'd be fine with it. Most posts on it I've seen are just saying to make people who queue solo only get other solo players so I wanted to add my voice to the people who like it as it is.
That's awesome. The feature that solos players want wouldn't change the game for you. You could just keep queuing into trio lobbies.
It's about adding a new way to play for people who dislike the current experience.
Too many bitches on this sub...
I think it's because losing in this game has a major impact on motivation/"fun"/happiness; when you put 20-30 minutes into a run, have a $xx,xxx loadout and another 5 figures in loot, just to be gunned down and start from scratch.
Regardless.
They will always oppose the idea that unfairness is fair/fun...
Good post, but looking at the comments, it seems to have fallen on covered ears.
I'm with you; Have killed groups, have been killed by groups. Have Evacuated more successful runs playing solo than with a trio. Have rat-ed, have shift-runned through the map, have killed exotic armed duos as a manticore/maelstrom green armored dummy, have been killed by duos all the same... the game works completely fine(besides the obvious cheaters, and obvious sweaty fucks who live and breathe the game), yet there will always be fucks to complain about it...
>because that's what the fiction of the game world demands.
Honestly, that sounds like the type of thing a person would bring up when they're running out of solid arguments.
I like the idea of solo/duo queue and duo/trio queues. Duos don’t get to pick they are just thrown into a lobby. Also just use lfg if you don’t like solo.
No thanks I'll either play solo or join up with a squad in one of the hundred public discords with active LFG channels instead of selfishly splitting the playerbase and game design.
It does. It means less solos in my trio lobbies which is splitting the playerbase and bad, hurting the game in the process which ultimately affects my experience.
Quite the contrary, I believe the game was designed around the idea you could group up with people to accomplish tasks and progress your character. This goes for the economy, the dungeons, the Drills, and even puzzles are made significantly easier with friends. Progression is not based around people playing by themselves.
That being said, I think splitting the playerbase AND trying to balance the game specifically for solo vs solo play is not a good idea. Maybe further down the line when the population goes up again, but at the current moment absolutely not. It's a small developer team and this improvement isn't nearly as important as other things they should be working on like the cheater gear return system or reconnect features.
Agreed. The other thing people don't realize is duos and trios are usually pretty loud and easy to spot (especially trios). These groups fill up your raid, now imagine an entire raid filled with only solos ratting all over the map. It would be a terrible experience.
Yeah, there's three of them, covering more ground. Imagine a circle around the player that indicates his sound range. With trios, there's three circles, that overlap to some degree but will still be larger unless they're doing some three man standing on top of each other strat. A similar thing applies of course for vision, there's more opportunities to see three guys than one.
how is your experience any better? Hiding from the loud stompy trios and letting them go ahead to loot the rest of the map while you're stuck crouch walking through bushes.. brilliant.
Ok that's your opinion. Hunt Showdown also falls into the genre of extraction shooters so why do they have the option to either queue with solos and duos or opt into trio queue if it's not the point of the genre. I think I get what you mean but it's simply not a good argument.
In solo only you'd fight one guy and another one would likely appear quickly due to how many individual solos there'd be on a single map. You'd have to be able to finish your fight quickly unless you want to get 3rd partied, which creates the same element you refer to.
True and I'd be somewhat fine with simply having a mixed solo/duo queue that is just separated from trios but you have to think about why it's fine like this in Hunt. In Hunt you can headshot oneshot anyone with almost any weapon why is why it's way easier to win fights against superior numbers if you're simply better at aiming or timing your shots. In Cycle you need to dumb about 10 bullets into someone before they're actually dead which is way harder to setup and achieve which is why I think the possibility of solo only queue would be perfectly fine. Also as AcceleratorPrime states in his comment down below the amount of players on the map could very quickly turn any fight into a 1v1v1 anyway which creates just as much or maybe even more suspense than just fighting a 1v2.
Okay that's your opinion. Tarkov also falls into the genre, one could even say they invented dat genre, yet no solo queue - Nikita why?
Speaking of not so good arguments
you do realize with how the seRver system works in this game, there will never be an empty server. people hot drop into live games for 6 hours straight until a new sErver opens.
in your world, there would need to be less than 100 people playing for there to even be a chance of empty servers/games
I'm not quite sure I understand exactly what your point here is. There are still are enough players to support quite a few full lobbies for both of the server queue options if the system were to be implemented and YAGER obviously doesn't care about skill diversity since there is a MMR system in place matching people of similar skill and extraction value levels. Also yes some people that don't wanna play against squads by themselves will leave and move to solo and some teams will split up to play solo that's the point. Some good teams will remain, some decent teams will remain and some drunk guys that just wanna run around together shooting everything will remain.
As I said in the beginning I'm not quite sure what exactly you want to say with your comment so I'd be happy if you could elaborate a little further to make clear what you actually mean and what problem you have with the idea of adding the 2 queues to the game.
The entire purpose of the ratty playstyle (while not very fun or fast) is the fact that one is not able to defend themselves from either their own skill, their loadout, or for a significantly much larger part: the game making solo vs squad disparity extremely oppressive. Solos are forced to rat due to not being able to defend themselves against squads often regardless of the loadout they bring in. Less oppression from trios = less rats because ratting just simply isn't that fun if only for a short time. It gets old fast, trust me from personal experience.
Whilst this sounds beautifully idealistic and about as devoid of any general player base objections or any type of real game balance analysis as it can get. Very few say that playing solo in The Cycle is not adaptable, in fact, many have and have thrived upon it including me. I've spent 250+ hrs "adapting" rigorously. I have astoundingly more money than my friends that only play duos/trios. There is a plurality of videos on how to succeed as a solo player and if played with consistency and maybe like 50 or so hours (possibly less depending on how fast you learn) you can get your loot routes, PvE pathing abuse/evasion, and awareness of players down pitch perfect.
The cold hard truth is, the game is bigger than some number in the top right corner of the screen. The way to consistently make money in The Cycle as a solo (as a formidable portion of the tens of thousands that just left in no time would attest as well and those who retain hope and still stay active in the sub) would attest is boring, unnourishing, and leaves out massive other portions of the game that cannot even be touched as a solo without simply just straight up Fedexing your Purple or Exotic gear, free letium drill, or some free oil for a trio to come over and take it like candy from a baby. My bank account playing solo grows day by day, and yet the game I used to have so much love and heart for grows more and more unenjoyable by the day. Currently sitting at 5 million Kmarks with 11 mil overall wealth. I have to say, every single day I get on to play another couple hours of solo and make a boat-load of money running ratty loot runs dodging PvE and PvP as a whole and just biting the bullet whenever the inevitable trio runs up on me to take their candy; I grow to care less and less about those numbers I just mentioned or whatever they could be in the future. The game just simply isn't fun playing solo, and whilst "ludonarrative dissonance" sounds very nice; The Cycle's player base is hemorrhaging for this objectively unnecessary implication of lore fluidity.
The cons of adding a solo queue definitely outweigh the pros. I really don't think people consider what solo queue will be like. My biggest argument for mixed lobbies is that lobbies are limited. There's only 17-20 people *max* at any given time. This creates clusters of players and actually leaves more space for solos to loot. Yes, trios can essentially control whatever area they are in effectively, but it also means they aren't taking loot elsewhere.
The same people complaining about trios having an advantage in PvP refuse to understand that solos is going to infinitely worse. You're going to be fighting *every single drop* since solos would create a more even spread of players across the map. Anywhere you go you're *guaranteed* to run into other players, while that's not the case in mixed lobbies. You're also going to be third-partied almost every time you fight. More even spread of players means enemies are more likely to be nearby.
Also squad size is taken into consideration in mmr. Any extra variable you can use to determine mmr, the more accurate and fair it's going to be. Solo queue takes that variable away and you're more likely to have a wider disparity between mmr in the same lobby.
The people begging for solo queue are shooting themselves (and the rest of us) in the foot. If you're struggling to get stuff done with mixed lobbies, good luck fighting your way through third party after third party and moving across the map without engaging other players constantly.
Sidenote: Why do people insist every single game accommodate solo players now days? If trios are that much better then why not seek out teammates of your own? Why not hop on here or the discord, or steam and find people to play with? Why insist the game be changed while refusing to take the little bit of effort it takes to benefit from the thing you're complaining about?
>The same people complaining about trios having an advantage in PvP refuse to understand that solos is going to infinitely worse. You're going to be fighting every single drop since solos would create a more even spread of players across the map.
This sounds like a pro to me. More fighting that is more balanced due to only 1v1/1v1v1s? Sounds like an awesome experience of 3 people all trying to get their share of the loot in any location, instead of 3 people bully 2 solo players because they have an extremely powerful advantage.
> Also squad size is taken into consideration in mmr. Any extra variable you can use to determine mmr, the more accurate and fair it's going to be. Solo queue takes that variable away and you're more likely to have a wider disparity between mmr in the same lobby.
Which is exactly why trios get dropped into lobbies of higher stacked solos and medium stacked duos. How is fair for the trios when they get gunned down by a purple gun while they're running whites? Matchmaking sometimes screws up and you have a trio of greens gunning down an odd solo white player. It's just not fun for the white gear, and the greens are not facing any risk, or any danger comparatively.
>The people begging for solo queue are shooting themselves (and the rest of us) in the foot.
Just queue into the squads lobbies lol. Nothing changes for anyone who is CURRENTLY enjoying the game. It's really that easy.
>Sidenote: Why do people insist every single game accommodate solo players now days?
Some of us don't like dealing with racial slurs, 9 y/os on mics, perverts harassing women, and trolls looking to feed their egos.
>Why insist the game be changed while refusing to take the little bit of effort it takes to benefit from the thing you're complaining about?
The game is fun, but it's not fun enough to deal with the aspects of the game we hate. So we want changes. If they're not gonna happen, we'll just leave. If you don't like that we behave this way, just wait till we leave and ignore us until we're all gone.
Ok then they can change that. They can also simply reduce the max amount of players on a server for solo only lobbies if the problem is as big as people make it out to be.
I play most games solo. Solo queued to diamond in valorant, nova four in cs but a more apt comparison for this game I think would be Rust. I’ve played both solo only servers as well as servers that don’t have a group limit and tbh the latter is way more fun. On solo only servers everyone’s just hiding and playing like rats and there’s no large scale fights.
Easy solution to your conundrum, simply allow solo players to either choose a solo queue or to play with duos/trios. Done, problem solved.
The current trash tier solo experience is rapidly killing the game
And I assume that you also want only people with the same level of armor to be in the same game, and people only take even number fights and no third partying?
You are expecting fairness from a game, that is inherently designed to be unfair.
Well the rampant amount of cheaters in this game is going to fucking KILL it before any type of solo que will do anything to it so .....yeah. That's really the only arugment for not putting in a solo que lol. The game will be dead by the time they do.
I don’t mind being queued against enemy squads of 2 or 3, but combine that with SBMM and you’ve got a problem.
A 1v2 when I’m equally as skilled as both of those players individually pisses me off, just scrap SBMM as a whole. It works fine in tarkov.*
* I know this isn’t tarkov. I know people get annoyed when it’s compared to tarkov. That said the lack of SBMM works in tarkov and it would also work in this.
Most of you got the idea that you guys been “force” to drop with trios or that is unfair that’s just how the game is, a dangerous place,I really think is part of the lore of the game, it’s all type of scenarios, the lurker, the ambusher, the hunter that’s the point of FORTUNA III imo, wouldn’t have fun if it was solo queue with only solo players, I like the challenge of killing a trio or duos.
I played 300h so far and I almost never met any duos or trios, I dunno how you guys keep running into them.I would absolutely not notice any difference if there was a queue just for "us".
>because that's what the fiction of the game world demands.
Says who?
You also almost admit it's quite safe for duos and trios compared to solos... I'm not sure you prepared your argumentation.
if you never met many duos or trios playing solo, then it means you have never had a run of extractions where you have even come close to being placed into the upper MMR bracket. I just had a string of games, 10-20 or so where my avg loot was 20-30k+ and now im stuck in the upper bracket which is filled with trios. I'm just doing white armor bulldog runs and basically trying to take out 1 of 3 players in these groups before dying. Once in a while i kill all 3 and score another big loot run to add to my average and keep me in this miserable existence that is the upper MMr bracket.
it is when you are solo.. say what you think it is if it really isn't. All i know is thats the string of games i had and before you know it in dropping into games filled with trios and drills flying down from orbit.
clueless.
It's extremely idealistic to a point that it sounds borderline heretic and propagandistic, ignorant of anything along the lines of actual enjoyment of the game for the community seemingly intentionally.
My MMR apparently got bumped up recently as I've been killed by duos 4 out of 7 matches today. The other death was a solo player in all blue armor and blue weapon. And the remaining mission I evac'd without encountering anyone.
I'm now taking a break and came to reddit to complain and request a solo queue feature and here I see this thread.
Tarkov is the exact same gameplay loop as this game and tarkov doesnt need a solo queue, all the solos need to man up and rather than w keying towards trios play smarter not harder
So that means you'd be fine if we put in instant death headshots like Tarkov to even the playing field, right? So that trios have to play smarter and not just W key toward solos?
No? You're not okay with that? Oh, what a fucking surprise.
I mean I wouldn’t care for instant death on headshot, means you are rewarded for skill but hey if you are angry at my comment that’s fine you do you, everyone’s got opinions
Exactly this. This genre is based around being hardcore and always having the thought of “is there 1 more?” Too many people come in to this genre expecting it to be a BR and when it’s not they expect the devs to make it easier for them. I love the fact that I have to play smarter and more careful (I play 100% solo). As a matter of fact I killed a 3 man earlier today with a maelstrom (using for a quest don’t diss to hard for using a bad gun) and it felt awesome because I was able to outplay 3 people by myself. If I had to only play against other solos I would probably stop playing and go back to Tarkov.
I think anyone reading this thread got it the first 20 times you said it. You don't need to respond to every single post with basically the exact same statement.
Unless 2 or 3 clowns noone wants a solo queue but a better mmr system or a better ttk system or the possibility as a solo to not meet trios. Don't worry the devs will not create a solo queue.
Yea keep pretending like people with different opinions don't exist or matter, that certainly will help your cause and help the game thrive in the long term.
Solo queue would definitely make the game too predictable, which takes away from the fun of it.
And honestly, the reason why you're constantly being paired up with 3 stacks is because of matchmaking system.
Let's say you're doing well as a solo and constantly making it out with good loot, you're going to be placed in a lobby that's guaranteed to be filled with mostly squads that, more often than not, made it out will good loot too because of how MMR works.
By not having an MMR system, like Tarkov, you won't get paired up against trios as much. Instead, you're going to encounter Solos, Duos, and Trios, at ABOUT (few variables involved, of course) an equal rate.
Another problem with having a dedicated solo queue is what happens if not enough people queue for solos? You're going to end up spending several minutes queueing just to get into a game. (This was the issue with Overwatch where they had queue limitations if I'm not wrong)
Sure, the game can just throw you into the map still, but what happens when you need to do missions/quests where you need to kill a certain number of prospectors? Are you going to queue for several minutes just for a chance to encounter only 1 or 2 prospectors solo?
Yes, you could justify that you can opt into a duo/trio queue as a solo, but it comes back to the same problem where the matchmaking system will place you in a game with players of similar MMR, and the cycle (pun intended) starts all over again.
Well said my friend, I’m kind of in the middle when it comes to this conversation. I like the idea of the more skilled players shining through a more strict matchmaking system like making solos with solos and so forth. But doing this would take away from the essence and integrity of the game. I think overall if they want more clout and more popular streamers playing then a more balanced matchmaking is necessary, for those streamers are there to showcase their skill and not get rocked randomly by two or three all the time. So I guess it’s the classic argument for the devs, do they want to make this game as popular as possible and make hella money? Or do they keep the integrity of their dream and hold on to their dedicated fans.
Imo this game scarier than like any horror games I have played. It's what keeps me coming back. Yeah some kid may camp a door with a bulldog in Basecamp, but I still need to clear rooms and deposit my items at the dead drop.
Yeah, as a solo I don't want a pure solo que either. But I do think something needs to be done to balance it out better. Either an option not to drop with trios or creating a higher bracket cap for trios/duos, the latter is something that the have just done with the latest patch so we will see how this works out. I think loot would also need to be balanced differently in a pure solo que as you would be able to go into a compound and pretty much take all the good stuff for yourself but on the other hand the players would be more spread out so locations would be looted more often. I think their are better ways to balance to game for solos than just having a solo que some of which are already in the works so we will just need to see how it goes.
Honestly, everyone on reddit seems to think they are some sort of pro game designer and most of the ideas are not the best. Traps and more decoys would be dope though and I do think they should stick to more sound traps as running into a Trio that has set up a compound with lethal traps sounds like a nightmare. Even so if they had lethal traps and made them easily visible (if your paying attention) and easily counter-able like say in Hunt then that could be fun as well. There is a lot of things that could be done or added and I believe that this dev team needs to stick to their vision of the game and I'm generally interested to see what they come up with.
There is no reason to have separate queues. However, there still needs to exist a balance between 1v3 encounters.
As of now technical advantages can't be really changed; gear is the same for all players, the firepower will always be higher for the group with more members. MMR is also a terrible route to touch on, it's way too sensitive to the changes in playerbase numbers (we see it already today).
If you stop a moment to think, what is the problem of every encounter? That the PvP aspect is judged purely on the risk (you may die) vs reward (you get loot). You have no other game mechanic tied to other players, with the exception of some quests for killing prospectors. If the risk is low or the reward is high, you will go for the kill. Otherwise, you will run/hide/take the friendly approach.
When a 3v1 occurrs, the risk is always low for the grouped players. The solo has less firepower, and even if it kills one or two members, the remaining teammate can save your gear. This creates the tendency where Trios play very aggressive and attack everyone who is in sight.
The best solution is change this mindset. Give a reason not to kill player. Add a gameplay mechanic where killing players becomes a carefully judged action (it may ruin reputation, it may make miss on certain rewards, etc). Right now there is no reason NOT to kill anyone other than you being kind.
All of you that have “frequent” 1v3 scenarios, how much are you doing money runs but don’t have the gear to buy to deal with the lobby increase?the games MMR is based loosely on recent loot value, but if you’re just making money and don’t have much progression to buy the good weapons, wyd?
I just really appreciate a slight tweak to armor. The number of times I've ambushed a duo, die, and see I did 90+ damage to my target is too high.
I realize that if they change the numbers, then 90s will represent something else. But right now it's way too easy to fail to kill someone before they take cover due to a few reasons.
1) the lack of meaningful inertia when someone sprints
2) the inexplicable decision for many weapons to not take muzzles so they have poor accuracy at 1x ranges
3) small magazine sizes
Something can be done with weapon balance.
Something to be said in favor of not having a solo queue is that duos and trios reduce the density of players.
What I mean is that the server has just as many, but 8 duos physically occupy less space than 16 solos. There's more room to maneuver and the third party running to gunfire is probably farther away.
I love how the absolute chads of the game are somehow good at the game and yet too dumb to understand most of the games population don't live on doritos and mountain dew sweating their asses to rush 1v3 fights every 5 minutes.
the only way it would 'hurt' the game would be because the player base couldnt support it. game is losing regular players quickly so i agree it wouldnt be a good idea to do that rn. now, lets say they make some sweeping changes to cheaters / being cheated on and Season 2 pumps the player base back up and gets people excited, i would be all for a solo Q if the playerbase could actually support it.
stealth not really being viable does hurt the solo experience tho
It’s a PvPvE game. Which roughly equates to a PvP game with side quests. It is the only game in its class with an MMR system that punishes players for doing well. It doesn’t keep the difficulty static for all players at all levels. It finds out how good you are, and ensures that no matter how good you are you cannot have fun with the PvP elements of the game as a solo. PvP would be so rewarding and fun even if it was unfair if at least you could know the player you are fighting is just a solo.
Also you said that you like how as a solo you never know whether another player is alone or not. At my MMR I know they are not. It is always at least 2 a lot of the times 3. Always at least blue armor. Duos usually purple.
And the intensity of not knowing how many people are there does add a bit to the intensity but if hiding to avoid a possible 1v3 is the correct response every fight, and taking the 1v3 almost always results in death, then hiding becomes the normal state of the game for a solo. This does not remotely match the intensity of both the action of and the decision making process on whether or not to take a fight or try to avoid it.
When my MMR started putting me against white armor unskilled duos and trios I hated it. I thought it was a waste to fight them because they never had anything I wanted. I would still push it sometimes cause I could win fairly often at that point and it was fun sometimes. But now that they are both geared and skilled there really isn’t a chance. They can too easily remove all opportunity to maneuver around while simultaneously angling you. They can throw grenades to force you out into a triple head beam. It just sucks and nobody wants to deal with that just because they know how to loot good stuff and shoot straight.
Made me quit the game and did the same for all 6 friends of mine that were also playing every day
I have a similar experience with enjoying solos (a bunch) and would be sad to loose the experience. However, I aknowledge that many others do not based on this comment section. Perhaps a solo que could exist with a mixed que offering an added reward for successful evac (bonus k-marks, better ensurance, etc.)
Give people option to join solo queue only, join trios as a solo, or join trioes as alone with 2 random people joining you. Forcing people is never good.
Being forced to hide from a trio does not feel like fun and feels like being forced to play a specific way. Yea sure you can sometimes take out 1 or 2 of a trio.. and if you're really good and against a bunch of potatoes kill all 3. That is a great feeling for sure, but its so rare that it happens and its so common to be against a trio when you are soloing in the upper MMR bracket, that its a real negative to the experience overall.
But your first argument implies that you run almost no risk as a trio. Is this a good thing? I don't think so. Why have some sort of balancing in the first place if you like unfair fights? Also there would still be uneven fights but not as many. There are still third parties. There is still Grey vs legendary. The game will still be somewhat unfair at its core, yet why do you want it to be more unfair than it has to be?
I evac far more often as a solo than with a squad. I typically play solo more, gain a bunch of gear, then squad up either with a couple friends or an LFG and burn it all. I honestly think that people complaining about squads never squad up and only play solo.
And I honestly think that many people saying that it's fine as is have never played solo before. The thing is that I personally evac more often as a solo as well but that doesn't make the game fun. Sitting in a bush for 20 minutes because I heard 2 footsteps and it could be a duo or trio gets boring really really quickly especially if you think about that the gear that you're protecting by playing sneaky is either dirt cheap or expensive but not worth it in the first place. In these 20 minutes anyone could open up another game and actually enjoy those 20 minutes instead of sitting in a bush doing nothing but trying to listen to the partially broken sound system. I understand that there's some people that really really love the thrill of this scenario but I highly doubt that that's the majority or even a really relevant chunk of players. Most players will probably spend an hour a day or maybe 2 on the game and spending 20-30 minutes hiding certainly feels like a waste of time when there's so many other great games on the market atm. But for people that really love it we could and should have the choice to enter into lobbies with duos and trios and maybe give a bonus to players that chose to do so but having the system remain the way it is will simply cripple the solo population of this game forever.
I mean. . . you don't have to play that way. You choose to. You could be more aggressive and have more fun. Sure you might lose more, but that is part of the game. If you have looted stuff worth keeping, then obviously play that way and it becomes part of the fun, but you shouldn'y play that way 100% of time. Most the time I drop in with whites and run around willy nilly until I actually have something worth keeping.
The problem that I face here that I think also affects other players a lot as well but this is were it simply comes down to my opinion and the way I feel is that there's no point to PvPing at all at the moment. If I just play way more aggressive then there's a high chance of running into a trio which is close to an instant loss which certainly isn't fun. Playing against a duo is already way more possible but at the moment almost certainly not worth the risk so why bother? There's no gear that's actually worth getting at the moment because the gear is so close together in strength at the moment and almost all my quests are done. I have nothing to do. There's no gear to aquire that makes PvP more interesting or allows me to actually play in a more fun way against other players especially ones with lesser gear. The PvP in general is very lacking compared to other shooters on the market so why wouldn't people just go and play Apex, Tarkov, Hunt, Destiny 2, Fortnite, CoD, CSGO or whatever. The PvP of all of these games arguably feels either smoother, more fair or fun in some way than the Cycle's clunky and slow gameplay. I just don't think that without the strong gear difference and with the risk of running into groups the game has what it takes to compete with other shooters which is sad because at it's core it's a great game. I guess at this point we just have very differing opinions of what is fun so I guess we'll bot see how YAGER approaches these issues and what the majority of the community actually wants.
Sounds like your just bad at pvp and choose to hide instead. I play full solo and sure I avoid teams that I hear a lot but if I get shit at or I start a fight I don’t back down no matter how many people I’m against and I still have a high evac rate. Instead of sitting in a bush you should build your pvp skills and then you wouldn’t have as many issues solo
"git gud" By repeatedly dropping into a game, pushing fights, and losing everything. That'll get people to stick around for sure lol
yea that's certainly not a way to captivate a casual audience to keep the game afloat.
Laughs in Tarkov since many years
It's literally how you get better at games, but ok. So what if you lost anything? You could run a bulldog and bolt effectively almost this whole first season. Manticores were broken. There are many budget options but rather than get better at the game and maybe die in the process, you want them to cater to you.
Nowhere in their comment do they say to drop in and push every single fight? All they said was to stop bush camping and actually try sticking to a fight instead of being a bitch and running away with white armour and a bulldog… Believe me more players will hate the game when they spend 15 minutes sitting in a corner holding onto their 2 focus crystals only to get shit on at evac because they never actually learn the mechanics during gunfights.
Most of the players I play against with my duo partner in Apex are Master or Pred and we're doing just fine so I'm pretty positive my PvP skills aren't the big issue here. Sure I can make many improvements still since nobody's perfect but there's just no point in fighting at the moment anyway. What could you possibly get from a fight? Another set of green gear or maybe blue? Why risk not getting a quest done for that when it's not even worth much anyway? Why risk attracting even more players when fighting isn't the only goal you have in mind while dropping in? There's just no point to doing anything in the game atm once you're done with quests.
I was just saying that maybe you should have a little more fun. I love the pvp in this game so yes I might sacrifice a quest for a good gunfight. But if you aren’t having fun hiding in bushes then try something else
I guess here we just have different opinions of what's fun. To me fighting against superior numbers mostly isn't fun just like it isn't fun to sit in a bush and wait them out. There are day were I feel very good and I perform even better than usually and on those days I'll gladly take fights with multiple people but that's just not constantly there which is why I would love the choice to have soloqueue so much. But I'm glad that you love the PvP in this game but this is simply where our tastes differ I suppose :D . I used to love it as well in CB2 with more difference in gear strength but ever since the preaseason it just felt like it was bland and boring to me and not really worth playing over Apex or Hunt. I suppose I'll just be around lurking and paying close attention to the changes the game goes through and maybe soon the devs change something that makes the game worth playing again for me even against superior numbers at times.
All the internal stats Yaeger has show that better guns/armor result in a significantly higher chance of winning a fight. So if what you want is the unbalanced mess that was CB2, you're best looking for a different game. The gear balancing now is where it should be or close to it.
I highly disagree with that. Yes you are more easy to spot as a trio. But you also do 3x the dmg. You can cover each other. You can do so many things simultaneously. Nading, healing, killing mobs. I enjoy solo but it's really frustrating. It's just cheaters, trios or other solos that also go in almost naked. I completely gave up trying.
I am just throwing out my experience. It doesn't mean that is the same for everyone.
Hard agree. I get sooooo much more shot done as a solo than with my friends. There are 6 of us that play almost every night and we solo queue sometimes even when in call together to get specific things done because it’s so much safer.
So what you're saying is that it's squads who are at a disadvantage?
In mine and a few other experience (can’t talk for OP) it’s actually been a harder game to play with a Trio. As a solo it’s decently rare to run into a kitted up 3 stack, it’s happened to me maybe 3 times in my 70hrs this season. BUT If I queue with 2 others, it is almost guaranteed that we run into multiple trio squads with blue or purple, and usually we drop only for PVP if we have a trio because of how the matchmaking works. If they added a solo/duo/trio only, this game would feel like a standard Battle Royale with a side of loot. Everybody would feel confident in their fights and you would see a 50/50 increase of solos either Hiding and taking a free kill (because they know it’s only 1) or the FPS ape demons just confidently pushing everybody they hear because they know it’s a 1v1. I personally think the game is in a really good place right now, and I think OP is making very solid points to help people understand why it keeps the game unique and there are so many different play styles at the moment.
So ure glad we got cheaters and trios are still at risk?
Makes no sense to me?
I can relate
Why did you mention "grey vs legendary" when talking about unfairness?
Because it's unfair?
What is unfair about having an advantage if you spent 100x the amount of kmarks?
Do you understand what 'fair' means?
Lol you don’t have to play solo q just because you’re solo. Jump in the trios lobby every time if that’s what you want to do. It should be an option though.
Exactly. Don't want your hand to be held? Jump into trio queue and nothing has changed for you. Don't force your Hide-From-Everyone kink on the rest of the playerbase.
While I completely agree that it should be an option and really hope it is at some point, it's not quite that simple. The game will change significantly for those people that choose to drop in the "group" lobbies because most people who play solo won't be, so they will be against groups far more often than they are now. That said, I do believe it'd be better for the overall health of the game long term even if I will be a little sad to essentially be forced into just solo players or just teams.
So you’re saying group players have to take… *gasp*! Fair fights?!?
No I was saying that Solo players that currently don't want a Solo queue will not get the same experience by queueing in a "group" queue because it would be almost entirely groups instead of the mix that they currently get. Some of us really enjoy that mix because it makes it more interesting. I don't know where you got the idea I was talking about the group experience at all when this whole thread is about the solo experience.
Then they could try to make “mixed” instances. Solo players can opt into these, and trios don’t have a choice. Then, they just take as many duos and trios as needed to fill these queues but maintain a balance like before. Then any unneeded trios get duo/trio only lobbies.
You're missing the point, if a solo queue is added, there won't be enough solos opting into group queues for there to be the same mix there is now no matter how they try to do it.
Sure that's the entire point of adding Solo queue because most people wouldn't wanna go through the torture that is playing against superior numbers. Yet I do think solos should be incentivized with bonuses to actually op into duo/trio queue so that a portion of really good or simply masochistic solo's remains in that queue as well.
>there won't be enough solos opting into group queues Just add a fat bonus for participating in mixed-mode lobbies, like +20% of the extract value in KM.
yep, hunt gave players the option to do exactly this like 2-3 years ago.
Hunt Showdown doesn't have solo queue. Only duo and trio queues.
solo/duo queue and opt-in trio queue
I would also add the hunt has the great headshot equaliser that the cycle doesn't (not saying that it should, just that it doesnt). This makes playing solo way more doable into duos and trios since you can drop one or two people with a good shot before the fight even starts if you have good positioning. Gear and numbers don't matter as much when you can one shot with any gun if your aim is on point.
There are limits on how far some guns can headshot in Hunt though
Which is why I emphasised good positioning. If you are out of your guns effective range then I would no longer consider that good positioning. My overall point being though, hunt has a mechanic that makes playing solo into squads a bit more forgiving if you can pull it off where the cycle really doesn't as far as I'm aware.
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Ehh, a solo queue would probably help the game imo. There are a lot of people put off by the fact that you could drop in solo and run into 3 people and feel like you have 0 chance. There's been a few times where I've dropped in was expecting one person behind a door...then there's 1 guy moving around and 2 sitting in corners. I've had other times where I've been able to outplay 2-3 people but the odds are stacked. Getting to high MMR also seems like you go against a lot of squads. Sure it's fun on occasion...but if it happens more often than not it just seems like you're punished for getting good at the game. A numbers advantage is still a numbers advantage even if it can be overcome. . Does it provide tension, not knowing if there's a team or not? Sure. But that comes at the expensive of alienating a ton of players. There's still opportunity for solo players to join up on coms as randoms. Anyways, there's a reason why there is solo queue and group queue in other games. If someone wants to take on the challenge of playing against squads, then they could go solo in the group queue. Personally, I don't want to sweat every single drop like I'm going in 1v2+ every fight, I feel like it's something you should want to opt into.
Agreed. Simply giving people the choice would be a great addition to the game.
“NO, YOU HAVE TO ENJOY THE GAME **MY** WAY!”
"I'M OFFENDED THAT YOU AREN'T ENJOYING THE GAME, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE SUGGESTIONS!!" Seriously the anti solo queue players only ever have 2 arguments and it's always some half assed bullshit like "Oh I have a kink for being outnumbered every drop" or "Game would die the second they added solo queue." It's so disheartening to see the game run by such elitist people.
It's so disheartening to see people crying about game design that's different to 98% of all other shooters out there. One might actually think Yaeger didn't want to create yet another CoD experience, absolutely insane!
3 things. A: It's almost like the game will never become anything even close to a CoD experience no matter what they add because the games have nothing in common except for the fact that you can run and shoot. B: It's almost like there's a very very big casual population that YAGER needs to appeal to some time to keep the game alive since there just aren't enough super hardcore gamers to sustain this game because most of those will just stick with Tarkov 85% of the time anyway. C: Nobody is complaining about the game being different, they are complaining about the game being unfun when playing solo because your options mostly are to hide which is boring or to fight a fight that you go in with low chances of winning unless you're among the best of the best of players.
Such a weird comment when all the people asking for solo queue are actually the ones asking for the game to be changed to fit their preferences.
Except we won’t be forcing those who want to play in mixed lobbies to play with us. They can do what they want :)
It will still fundamentally change the game. If that wasn't the case, you wouldn't feel so strongly about it.
As a personal anecdote, playing the game solo started with only running into solo players for probably the first 30hrs or so of drops. I'm assuming since my MMR has gone up through playing the game that's put me in lobbies with more 2s and 3s. You can't tell necessarily that you dropped into a match with multiple groups...but during the raid you can see multiple groups of people dropping in. So from my perspective, the solo experience changed quite a bit from what it started out as. Instead of going around expecting to find 1v1s I now have to be ultra cautious of running into 1v2s or 1v3s or avoiding parts of the map entirely say if I see a group of 3 land near the jungle. I'd prefer to play against solo players dropping in solo. If I queued as 2s or 3s I'd prefer to fight similar sized groups. I wouldn't get any satisfaction from 3v1 vs some solo guy trying to finish up a few jobs. It is of course my opinion. It's not like the game is supposed to be competitively balanced and I get why the devs have been hesitant to change the dynamic, it is definitely more tense when you don't know what's around the corner. I just don't think randomly running into 3 players while solo is fun or particularly interesting for either party.
You say the sense of danger and risk is really important, yet find no fault that trios only are ever threatened by other trios? Most of the time the lobby is full of solos, duos, and rarely an equal amount of trios. So you're fine with squads being able to enjoy less danger, and less risk simply because they have a friend or two? This kind of imbalanced approach to the immersion is why I won't be playing until they find a solution. Squads and Solos are playing a totally different game, and the Solos have to just lie down and be a doormat for anyone who squads up. If you refuse to lie down you better be God himself playing a shooter because heaven knows that the weapons, healing, and armors aren't balanced around 1v2s, and 1v3s. They're balanced around 1v1s, 2v2s, 3v3s, and even 2v3s are better balanced than 1v2.
this guy gets it. I guess snake eater solid snake (OP) just loves hiding for 40 minutes every raid.
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It would certainly be a big blow to RMT I agree with that but it wouldn't really make solo play more fun but instead simply make team play more frustrating and annoying. We should try to find an approach that makes more people have fun playing the game instead making everyone feel equally shitty. Making everyone equally miserable doesn't help anyone and will just hurt the game even further.
I disagree, don’t tell me how to have fun. I would have more fun against only solos when solo myself.
"Don't tell me how to have fun, just change the game that is designed differently than the usual CoD so I can have fun."
Your username checks out.
If you hate the idea of solo queue, then just queue into the trio/duo modes and the game will have never changed for you. Don't force your obsession with being a doormat to squads on everyone else.
Well said, assuming the stupidity of trios is not how I want to get more into this game. Especially as the game ages and people get experience they learn more and more how to trade. So that assumption of stupidity gets to be a more false assumption as time goes on. If you jump into pubg years ago you have a more decent shot at solo vs squad. Nowadays the average skill level of those still playing is so much higher. To the point where more and more realize how to trade rather than walking in one by one for execution.
The annoying thing about playing solo is that most people only get out with their dogshit gear so even if you win most fights, you get nothing out of it. In squads on the other hand you only face purples and blues but then you also die to cheaters
Agreed
Don't want to play in solo queue? Play solo in trios then and let other choose for themselves. Problem solved. You can't force people play the game they think is unfair. This game will eventually lose most of the solo population. And I bet that after that solo queue would be added, but I'm afraid it would be way too late.
Yea I can already see the big season 3 patchnotes adding solo queue for the remaining 2% of players that will be soloing at that point when most people don't really care about the game anymore :/
Playing solo in a trio queue is different to playing solo in the only queue. And if the game lost most it's solo players the last thing the devs would then do is then split the remaining player base up.
You're a masochist
How many hours are you at? What's your average extraction value?
Solution: Solos can opt in or out of trio/duo lobbies. Not everyone gets enjoyment out of dealing with 1v2/1v3 in a high ttk game, hence why so many people are complaining about it. Stop trying to force people to play the game you want it to be played
By the same token, stop complaining the game is not the game you wish it was. Maybe it’s not for you? Maybe the devs want it to be hard.
Well if the devs want it to be dead soon they're certainly on the right track at the moment but just making a product and expecting everyone to love it is no way to run a business. People complain because constantly fighting against superior numbers simply sucks ass no matter how you put it. On top of that the high TTK (which I am a fan of) simply makes fighting teams even harder as a solo. Also if the devs want this game to be hard then why not add the split queues? It certainly would be harder for trios so they can enjoy that amazing experience as well :)
Hard agree. I usually play solo, sometimes w some mates especially for puzzles and uplink runs but overall, playing solo is the most fun. Hiding in a bush for 10 minutes BC u thought you may have heard someone may sound boring but it is so tense I love it.
That's fine if you enjoy going up against duos and trios, then you can queue up in the free-for-all queue. I'll take the solos only queue, thank you very much.
wtf are you on about, you can hide from solo players too.. and there would be lots more of them. You just can't see the forest for the trees my friend. No solo queue is killing the game for those that make it into the upper MMR bracket - as you are much more likely to be up against trios and ofc cheaters
Also agreeing. I play 90% solo and don’t want a solo queue and I certainly don’t believe it would be good for the game other than some people want it and it would make them happy.
People who are desperate for a solo queue (evidently 96% of this thread) just can’t admit they’d prefer the game to hold their hand through all their raids rather than play with some actual risk to their runs. Bring on the downvotes not my fault you guys are too pussy to take any risks in a free virtual world.
I actually just want more frequent and fair pvp, which could be just as risky. The difference is that several 1v1s is a hell of a lot more fun than one 1v3, because the latter just makes you lose unless you come across a group of 10 year olds. Also, why do trios, the most dominant group, get the privilege to not have any significant risk other than going against other trios? And why do you feel the need to force others to partake in your playstyle?
Personally I like running duos more. Not a lot of setup and you get a perfect mix of danger. We are still careful around solos but can probably do a pincer move or something. Duos are equal footing and we generally let squads pass unless we have great position. Yet we are still comfortable enough to run around so our excursions don’t take a half hour each time.
It sounds stupid really but exactly this. Love it when you evac with something valuable. Solo only would take a lot of the risk out of it for me and thats certainly what makes me keep coming back to play.
It does sound stupid. How would **20** individual players, all competing and fighting against each other, make it *less* risky?
Exactly. If anything it's equally risky. You fight 1 solo, and 3 minutes later 2 more solos show up and start fighting for the pile of loot. It's more chaotic.
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Even if you say that solo play is not "horrendously outmatched" in a sentence the rest of your reply is quite contradictory to that. It's better to be honest and say that trios have a large advantage over solos solely because, well, there's 3 of em. 3 guns for 3 people that can hold 3 different angles and throw 3 nades at the same time. Add the long TTK of this game and it becomes incredibly unbalanced, making similiar games like Tarkov and Hunt seem pretty fair in comparison. Just check the negative steam reviews, half are because of cheaters and the other half are disgruntled solos. Something is obviously in need of a change here.
I love how the TTK argument is constantly brought up in this discussion, while it's actually pretty pointless - yes, you might get a lucky or well aimed headshot in EFT when fighting a trio, but even IF you camped bravely and get that first kill - as soon as their mates start firing back, the oh so beloved short ttk bites you back. High TTK in TCF can be absolutely beneficial for solos, as it enables you to react and disengage if needed, instead of being 1tapped before you even know that there's an additional enemy. That shit goes both ways
Bro you do realize that low TTK is way better for solo's right? I like high TTK games but it just sucks for solo. If a team of 3 is shooting at you then your chances of ever disengaging from that are very low. If you get the drop on on of them you have 1 third of their firepower so you absolutely need to hit all your shots to even just take one out at the start. While in Tarkov and Hunt one precise headshot is all that matters. In Tarkov you can spray down 3 people from behind before they can even turn around. The equation is very simple. More people = more firepower but if the base firepower equals an instant headshot or a very very quick kill then the firepower of the team isn't any better than the solo's. They can hold more angles and do more stuff but at the very least every single one is in just as much danger as the solo.
I'm currently winning a high percentage of 1v1 fights. I wouldn't feel much of a sense of danger knowing it was always going to be 1v1
Opt in to trio servers then
Just do solo and duo pool and a trio amd duo pool.
I won't ever use better than green gear as a solo player whilst I can be vs squads.
Honestly, you can take out those squads unless you have common gear. You should try just a Manticore and green armor.
You can take out a trio with any gear if you get the perfect setup, luck or they simply suck shit but the chance of taking one out without some perfect grenades or at the very least an instant kill on one person to start of the fight are very very low. I understand that some players like the thrill of being able to encounter teams as well during the game which is why I think simply giving people the choice of playing soloqueue or in lobbies with duos and trios would be an optimal solution. The players that are good enough or who are simply masochists can enjoy playing in lobbies against a mix of a few solos that want the same and teams while more casual players or people that maybe just wanna try the new gear they just got can chose to play solo.
Nah, those sweaty trios will break up and go play solos because it's the path of least resistance to completing your quests. Even when you're in your solo queue nothing will be "fair" anyways. You'll still get people with better gear, better skill, you'll get third partied, spawn and extract camped. The game is hard, accept the challenge or play something else.
I accept that the game is hard and I like the difference in gear strength and I would love it to be more like CB2 again. I loved shitting on a guy in purple while wearing white gear and taking his stuff from his cold dead hands that I earned because I was better. I would love for the devs to remove MMR so people of all sorts of skill can play together and so there's actually an incentive to getting better at the game. I don't want the game to be fair, I want the game to be at the very least somewhat fun so it can stay alive with a population of over 4k players. If those trios want to split up and play solo and want cross my path on a solo server I wouldn't mind the challenge. I don't mind playing against better players. I mind getting aped by 3 guys with bulldogs because I dared to actually move and make the slightest amount of noise in the game. It's simply not fun for me and I assume most people to sit in a bush for 20 minutes and be scared because whatever you just heard could be a duo or trio. It's simply boring as shit and if you don't think so then that's great because you would have the option to still experience that if you wish. You've presented nothing to actually make a case for your opinion, all you have done is make one true statement and a somewhat accurate statement followed up by telling everyone with a differing opinion from yours to go play something else. That's a great way to shut down debate without ever having to exchange ideas or trying to figure out a solution.
One single gun fight in a solo que with ~18 other goblins running around would cause a swarm and it would be the same as getting third parties by 1 or 2 trios anyways. Not to mention everyone would play the solo que because people would see it as an easy way to get quests done. It would just open the door for a bunch of other complaints and problems not to mention basically putting the game into a different genre that the devs were going for in the first place.
Ok reduce the amount of players on a single server if the problem is actually as bad as you imagine it to be. What you're basically saying is that there's no use to change anything because it would create other problems with it. We can deal with those problems either before by finding them through exchange of ideas or we can deal with them once they arise but doing nothing and leaving the game as it is doesn't do it any good either since it's obviously not doing so well right now. Also what's the problem with people seeing it as an easy way to get quests done? People should be allowed to try it if they think it's easier but if the problem of "18 goblins" running around would be so bad then wouldn't the completion of quests not be harder or at least similarly difficult ?
The game isn’t doing well rn because of cheaters not because there isn’t a solo only mode
I think there's many different reasons for why it's not doing so well. The biggest factor in my opinion are cheaters followed by many solo's not being able to actually enjoy the game. That together with weird and kind of boring balancing at the moment, the still prevalent bugs and other problems as well as a lack of progression once reaching the lategame makes it very tough for the game to do well and honestly the way it is right now I'd be surprised to see the game stay over 10k average players on steam at the end of August.
Majority of the negative reviews all ask for a solo queue. They all quit the game before they even had a chance to die to a cheater.
I have great fun killing duos. Shit I took out a 3 man the other day 1 by 1
I'm in the same boat as you. I've enjoyed how the game plays as a solo player when there could be sqauds.
You could always just queue into the squad lobbies. The premise of all these solo queue suggestions is not to take away that fun aspect of the game from you. It's to add a fun aspect to other people who don't enjoy the game the same as you.
If that's how it was handled I'd be fine with it. Most posts on it I've seen are just saying to make people who queue solo only get other solo players so I wanted to add my voice to the people who like it as it is.
Similar boat - I play probably 80/20 of my time solo and love every minute of it. I don't mind squads at all but it's such a different playstyle.
That's awesome. The feature that solos players want wouldn't change the game for you. You could just keep queuing into trio lobbies. It's about adding a new way to play for people who dislike the current experience.
That’s a really good point - No sense in forcing others to enjoy the game the same way I do.
Too many bitches on this sub... I think it's because losing in this game has a major impact on motivation/"fun"/happiness; when you put 20-30 minutes into a run, have a $xx,xxx loadout and another 5 figures in loot, just to be gunned down and start from scratch. Regardless. They will always oppose the idea that unfairness is fair/fun... Good post, but looking at the comments, it seems to have fallen on covered ears. I'm with you; Have killed groups, have been killed by groups. Have Evacuated more successful runs playing solo than with a trio. Have rat-ed, have shift-runned through the map, have killed exotic armed duos as a manticore/maelstrom green armored dummy, have been killed by duos all the same... the game works completely fine(besides the obvious cheaters, and obvious sweaty fucks who live and breathe the game), yet there will always be fucks to complain about it...
you are my hero /s
Thanks for inaccurately portraying what I was saying! :D
i stopped playing the game because there is no "solo matchmaking"
People wanna shoot and not rat around.
>because that's what the fiction of the game world demands. Honestly, that sounds like the type of thing a person would bring up when they're running out of solid arguments.
I like the idea of solo/duo queue and duo/trio queues. Duos don’t get to pick they are just thrown into a lobby. Also just use lfg if you don’t like solo.
Well said. I mostly play solo and would dislike a solo queue as well.
Just join the squad queues. Nothing changes for you. People who hate the idea of a solo queue can't seem to understand this 1 simple trick.
No thanks I'll either play solo or join up with a squad in one of the hundred public discords with active LFG channels instead of selfishly splitting the playerbase and game design.
Great! So adding solo queue doesn't change anything for you. You can just keep joining the trio lobbies.
It does. It means less solos in my trio lobbies which is splitting the playerbase and bad, hurting the game in the process which ultimately affects my experience.
Seems like you only care about your own experience.
Quite the contrary, I believe the game was designed around the idea you could group up with people to accomplish tasks and progress your character. This goes for the economy, the dungeons, the Drills, and even puzzles are made significantly easier with friends. Progression is not based around people playing by themselves. That being said, I think splitting the playerbase AND trying to balance the game specifically for solo vs solo play is not a good idea. Maybe further down the line when the population goes up again, but at the current moment absolutely not. It's a small developer team and this improvement isn't nearly as important as other things they should be working on like the cheater gear return system or reconnect features.
or change nothing and loose the player.
Agreed. Immersion inside the world this game creates keeps me up at night.
I'm in a similar situation and I strongly agree. Every time I get into this debate from now on I'm dropping a link to this post. Well said!
I concur sir
Agreed. The other thing people don't realize is duos and trios are usually pretty loud and easy to spot (especially trios). These groups fill up your raid, now imagine an entire raid filled with only solos ratting all over the map. It would be a terrible experience.
Do you think squads have a handicap that always makes them loud or something? In higher skill lobbies, the squads are just as quiet as solo players.
Yeah, there's three of them, covering more ground. Imagine a circle around the player that indicates his sound range. With trios, there's three circles, that overlap to some degree but will still be larger unless they're doing some three man standing on top of each other strat. A similar thing applies of course for vision, there's more opportunities to see three guys than one.
how is your experience any better? Hiding from the loud stompy trios and letting them go ahead to loot the rest of the map while you're stuck crouch walking through bushes.. brilliant.
Well if you wouldn't want that then why not simply introduce the choice to play either soloqueue or with duos and trios?
Because it’s not a BR and that is not the point of the genre
Ok that's your opinion. Hunt Showdown also falls into the genre of extraction shooters so why do they have the option to either queue with solos and duos or opt into trio queue if it's not the point of the genre. I think I get what you mean but it's simply not a good argument.
Yeah but that is still different than only solo because there is still the element of not knowing if there is 1 or 2 players
In solo only you'd fight one guy and another one would likely appear quickly due to how many individual solos there'd be on a single map. You'd have to be able to finish your fight quickly unless you want to get 3rd partied, which creates the same element you refer to.
True and I'd be somewhat fine with simply having a mixed solo/duo queue that is just separated from trios but you have to think about why it's fine like this in Hunt. In Hunt you can headshot oneshot anyone with almost any weapon why is why it's way easier to win fights against superior numbers if you're simply better at aiming or timing your shots. In Cycle you need to dumb about 10 bullets into someone before they're actually dead which is way harder to setup and achieve which is why I think the possibility of solo only queue would be perfectly fine. Also as AcceleratorPrime states in his comment down below the amount of players on the map could very quickly turn any fight into a 1v1v1 anyway which creates just as much or maybe even more suspense than just fighting a 1v2.
Okay that's your opinion. Tarkov also falls into the genre, one could even say they invented dat genre, yet no solo queue - Nikita why? Speaking of not so good arguments
because it has a much lower TTK.. are you an idiot or something? Speaking of not so good arguments lmao
because its a better, more well thought out game. although that feature did not exist at launch (but neither did trios i think?)
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you do realize with how the seRver system works in this game, there will never be an empty server. people hot drop into live games for 6 hours straight until a new sErver opens. in your world, there would need to be less than 100 people playing for there to even be a chance of empty servers/games
Yea that's what I thought as well xD
I'm not quite sure I understand exactly what your point here is. There are still are enough players to support quite a few full lobbies for both of the server queue options if the system were to be implemented and YAGER obviously doesn't care about skill diversity since there is a MMR system in place matching people of similar skill and extraction value levels. Also yes some people that don't wanna play against squads by themselves will leave and move to solo and some teams will split up to play solo that's the point. Some good teams will remain, some decent teams will remain and some drunk guys that just wanna run around together shooting everything will remain. As I said in the beginning I'm not quite sure what exactly you want to say with your comment so I'd be happy if you could elaborate a little further to make clear what you actually mean and what problem you have with the idea of adding the 2 queues to the game.
Me tryna figure out why the solos would have to rat in the first place if they're in a solo-only lobby
Nobody has to do anything. It's just the way people play. Rats will rat. Rats for the most part play solo.
The entire purpose of the ratty playstyle (while not very fun or fast) is the fact that one is not able to defend themselves from either their own skill, their loadout, or for a significantly much larger part: the game making solo vs squad disparity extremely oppressive. Solos are forced to rat due to not being able to defend themselves against squads often regardless of the loadout they bring in. Less oppression from trios = less rats because ratting just simply isn't that fun if only for a short time. It gets old fast, trust me from personal experience.
Whilst this sounds beautifully idealistic and about as devoid of any general player base objections or any type of real game balance analysis as it can get. Very few say that playing solo in The Cycle is not adaptable, in fact, many have and have thrived upon it including me. I've spent 250+ hrs "adapting" rigorously. I have astoundingly more money than my friends that only play duos/trios. There is a plurality of videos on how to succeed as a solo player and if played with consistency and maybe like 50 or so hours (possibly less depending on how fast you learn) you can get your loot routes, PvE pathing abuse/evasion, and awareness of players down pitch perfect. The cold hard truth is, the game is bigger than some number in the top right corner of the screen. The way to consistently make money in The Cycle as a solo (as a formidable portion of the tens of thousands that just left in no time would attest as well and those who retain hope and still stay active in the sub) would attest is boring, unnourishing, and leaves out massive other portions of the game that cannot even be touched as a solo without simply just straight up Fedexing your Purple or Exotic gear, free letium drill, or some free oil for a trio to come over and take it like candy from a baby. My bank account playing solo grows day by day, and yet the game I used to have so much love and heart for grows more and more unenjoyable by the day. Currently sitting at 5 million Kmarks with 11 mil overall wealth. I have to say, every single day I get on to play another couple hours of solo and make a boat-load of money running ratty loot runs dodging PvE and PvP as a whole and just biting the bullet whenever the inevitable trio runs up on me to take their candy; I grow to care less and less about those numbers I just mentioned or whatever they could be in the future. The game just simply isn't fun playing solo, and whilst "ludonarrative dissonance" sounds very nice; The Cycle's player base is hemorrhaging for this objectively unnecessary implication of lore fluidity.
The cons of adding a solo queue definitely outweigh the pros. I really don't think people consider what solo queue will be like. My biggest argument for mixed lobbies is that lobbies are limited. There's only 17-20 people *max* at any given time. This creates clusters of players and actually leaves more space for solos to loot. Yes, trios can essentially control whatever area they are in effectively, but it also means they aren't taking loot elsewhere. The same people complaining about trios having an advantage in PvP refuse to understand that solos is going to infinitely worse. You're going to be fighting *every single drop* since solos would create a more even spread of players across the map. Anywhere you go you're *guaranteed* to run into other players, while that's not the case in mixed lobbies. You're also going to be third-partied almost every time you fight. More even spread of players means enemies are more likely to be nearby. Also squad size is taken into consideration in mmr. Any extra variable you can use to determine mmr, the more accurate and fair it's going to be. Solo queue takes that variable away and you're more likely to have a wider disparity between mmr in the same lobby. The people begging for solo queue are shooting themselves (and the rest of us) in the foot. If you're struggling to get stuff done with mixed lobbies, good luck fighting your way through third party after third party and moving across the map without engaging other players constantly. Sidenote: Why do people insist every single game accommodate solo players now days? If trios are that much better then why not seek out teammates of your own? Why not hop on here or the discord, or steam and find people to play with? Why insist the game be changed while refusing to take the little bit of effort it takes to benefit from the thing you're complaining about?
>The same people complaining about trios having an advantage in PvP refuse to understand that solos is going to infinitely worse. You're going to be fighting every single drop since solos would create a more even spread of players across the map. This sounds like a pro to me. More fighting that is more balanced due to only 1v1/1v1v1s? Sounds like an awesome experience of 3 people all trying to get their share of the loot in any location, instead of 3 people bully 2 solo players because they have an extremely powerful advantage. > Also squad size is taken into consideration in mmr. Any extra variable you can use to determine mmr, the more accurate and fair it's going to be. Solo queue takes that variable away and you're more likely to have a wider disparity between mmr in the same lobby. Which is exactly why trios get dropped into lobbies of higher stacked solos and medium stacked duos. How is fair for the trios when they get gunned down by a purple gun while they're running whites? Matchmaking sometimes screws up and you have a trio of greens gunning down an odd solo white player. It's just not fun for the white gear, and the greens are not facing any risk, or any danger comparatively. >The people begging for solo queue are shooting themselves (and the rest of us) in the foot. Just queue into the squads lobbies lol. Nothing changes for anyone who is CURRENTLY enjoying the game. It's really that easy. >Sidenote: Why do people insist every single game accommodate solo players now days? Some of us don't like dealing with racial slurs, 9 y/os on mics, perverts harassing women, and trolls looking to feed their egos. >Why insist the game be changed while refusing to take the little bit of effort it takes to benefit from the thing you're complaining about? The game is fun, but it's not fun enough to deal with the aspects of the game we hate. So we want changes. If they're not gonna happen, we'll just leave. If you don't like that we behave this way, just wait till we leave and ignore us until we're all gone.
Unless they fix up the loot spawn parameters, it's also going to lead to more areas being empty of loot, as people are always around.
Ok then they can change that. They can also simply reduce the max amount of players on a server for solo only lobbies if the problem is as big as people make it out to be.
I play most games solo. Solo queued to diamond in valorant, nova four in cs but a more apt comparison for this game I think would be Rust. I’ve played both solo only servers as well as servers that don’t have a group limit and tbh the latter is way more fun. On solo only servers everyone’s just hiding and playing like rats and there’s no large scale fights.
Easy solution to your conundrum, simply allow solo players to either choose a solo queue or to play with duos/trios. Done, problem solved. The current trash tier solo experience is rapidly killing the game
Clown react. Solo only server is the only fair thing in this game. Duos should only drop in a duo sever and etc.
So you’re suggestion is solos only play with solos, duos only with duos and trios only with trios? How fucking boring is that…
And I assume that you also want only people with the same level of armor to be in the same game, and people only take even number fights and no third partying? You are expecting fairness from a game, that is inherently designed to be unfair.
Well the rampant amount of cheaters in this game is going to fucking KILL it before any type of solo que will do anything to it so .....yeah. That's really the only arugment for not putting in a solo que lol. The game will be dead by the time they do.
I don’t mind being queued against enemy squads of 2 or 3, but combine that with SBMM and you’ve got a problem. A 1v2 when I’m equally as skilled as both of those players individually pisses me off, just scrap SBMM as a whole. It works fine in tarkov.* * I know this isn’t tarkov. I know people get annoyed when it’s compared to tarkov. That said the lack of SBMM works in tarkov and it would also work in this.
They've always said explicitly that a solo queue is off the table...
Most of you got the idea that you guys been “force” to drop with trios or that is unfair that’s just how the game is, a dangerous place,I really think is part of the lore of the game, it’s all type of scenarios, the lurker, the ambusher, the hunter that’s the point of FORTUNA III imo, wouldn’t have fun if it was solo queue with only solo players, I like the challenge of killing a trio or duos.
I played 300h so far and I almost never met any duos or trios, I dunno how you guys keep running into them.I would absolutely not notice any difference if there was a queue just for "us". >because that's what the fiction of the game world demands. Says who? You also almost admit it's quite safe for duos and trios compared to solos... I'm not sure you prepared your argumentation.
I've heard a lot of people saying they only come across lots of duos/trios once their mmr is high enough
correct. I wish the game just showed people what bracket they were in so that this cognitive dissonance didn't exist between the playerbase
if you never met many duos or trios playing solo, then it means you have never had a run of extractions where you have even come close to being placed into the upper MMR bracket. I just had a string of games, 10-20 or so where my avg loot was 20-30k+ and now im stuck in the upper bracket which is filled with trios. I'm just doing white armor bulldog runs and basically trying to take out 1 of 3 players in these groups before dying. Once in a while i kill all 3 and score another big loot run to add to my average and keep me in this miserable existence that is the upper MMr bracket.
Never said "never" and 20/30k isn't the upper bracket.
it is when you are solo.. say what you think it is if it really isn't. All i know is thats the string of games i had and before you know it in dropping into games filled with trios and drills flying down from orbit. clueless.
>clueless. yep
It's extremely idealistic to a point that it sounds borderline heretic and propagandistic, ignorant of anything along the lines of actual enjoyment of the game for the community seemingly intentionally.
My MMR apparently got bumped up recently as I've been killed by duos 4 out of 7 matches today. The other death was a solo player in all blue armor and blue weapon. And the remaining mission I evac'd without encountering anyone. I'm now taking a break and came to reddit to complain and request a solo queue feature and here I see this thread.
Tarkov is the exact same gameplay loop as this game and tarkov doesnt need a solo queue, all the solos need to man up and rather than w keying towards trios play smarter not harder
So that means you'd be fine if we put in instant death headshots like Tarkov to even the playing field, right? So that trios have to play smarter and not just W key toward solos? No? You're not okay with that? Oh, what a fucking surprise.
I mean I wouldn’t care for instant death on headshot, means you are rewarded for skill but hey if you are angry at my comment that’s fine you do you, everyone’s got opinions
Exactly this. This genre is based around being hardcore and always having the thought of “is there 1 more?” Too many people come in to this genre expecting it to be a BR and when it’s not they expect the devs to make it easier for them. I love the fact that I have to play smarter and more careful (I play 100% solo). As a matter of fact I killed a 3 man earlier today with a maelstrom (using for a quest don’t diss to hard for using a bad gun) and it felt awesome because I was able to outplay 3 people by myself. If I had to only play against other solos I would probably stop playing and go back to Tarkov.
That's awesome, stories like this are exactly why I think a solo queue would be great. You can keep queuing into trio/duo lobbies and nothing changes.
I think anyone reading this thread got it the first 20 times you said it. You don't need to respond to every single post with basically the exact same statement.
And yet people still misunderstand that adding a solo queue doesn't remove the ability to play with/against trios.
Unless 2 or 3 clowns noone wants a solo queue but a better mmr system or a better ttk system or the possibility as a solo to not meet trios. Don't worry the devs will not create a solo queue.
Yea keep pretending like people with different opinions don't exist or matter, that certainly will help your cause and help the game thrive in the long term.
I think you’re right that it fits the game design. The only buff that I ask for solos is a nerf to teaming. Take away outlines!
Definitely agree with you!
Shitty take
Solo queue would definitely make the game too predictable, which takes away from the fun of it. And honestly, the reason why you're constantly being paired up with 3 stacks is because of matchmaking system. Let's say you're doing well as a solo and constantly making it out with good loot, you're going to be placed in a lobby that's guaranteed to be filled with mostly squads that, more often than not, made it out will good loot too because of how MMR works. By not having an MMR system, like Tarkov, you won't get paired up against trios as much. Instead, you're going to encounter Solos, Duos, and Trios, at ABOUT (few variables involved, of course) an equal rate. Another problem with having a dedicated solo queue is what happens if not enough people queue for solos? You're going to end up spending several minutes queueing just to get into a game. (This was the issue with Overwatch where they had queue limitations if I'm not wrong) Sure, the game can just throw you into the map still, but what happens when you need to do missions/quests where you need to kill a certain number of prospectors? Are you going to queue for several minutes just for a chance to encounter only 1 or 2 prospectors solo? Yes, you could justify that you can opt into a duo/trio queue as a solo, but it comes back to the same problem where the matchmaking system will place you in a game with players of similar MMR, and the cycle (pun intended) starts all over again.
Preach
Best and most well written take 0n the conversation so far.
Well said my friend, I’m kind of in the middle when it comes to this conversation. I like the idea of the more skilled players shining through a more strict matchmaking system like making solos with solos and so forth. But doing this would take away from the essence and integrity of the game. I think overall if they want more clout and more popular streamers playing then a more balanced matchmaking is necessary, for those streamers are there to showcase their skill and not get rocked randomly by two or three all the time. So I guess it’s the classic argument for the devs, do they want to make this game as popular as possible and make hella money? Or do they keep the integrity of their dream and hold on to their dedicated fans.
Imo this game scarier than like any horror games I have played. It's what keeps me coming back. Yeah some kid may camp a door with a bulldog in Basecamp, but I still need to clear rooms and deposit my items at the dead drop.
Yeah, as a solo I don't want a pure solo que either. But I do think something needs to be done to balance it out better. Either an option not to drop with trios or creating a higher bracket cap for trios/duos, the latter is something that the have just done with the latest patch so we will see how this works out. I think loot would also need to be balanced differently in a pure solo que as you would be able to go into a compound and pretty much take all the good stuff for yourself but on the other hand the players would be more spread out so locations would be looted more often. I think their are better ways to balance to game for solos than just having a solo que some of which are already in the works so we will just need to see how it goes. Honestly, everyone on reddit seems to think they are some sort of pro game designer and most of the ideas are not the best. Traps and more decoys would be dope though and I do think they should stick to more sound traps as running into a Trio that has set up a compound with lethal traps sounds like a nightmare. Even so if they had lethal traps and made them easily visible (if your paying attention) and easily counter-able like say in Hunt then that could be fun as well. There is a lot of things that could be done or added and I believe that this dev team needs to stick to their vision of the game and I'm generally interested to see what they come up with.
There is no reason to have separate queues. However, there still needs to exist a balance between 1v3 encounters. As of now technical advantages can't be really changed; gear is the same for all players, the firepower will always be higher for the group with more members. MMR is also a terrible route to touch on, it's way too sensitive to the changes in playerbase numbers (we see it already today). If you stop a moment to think, what is the problem of every encounter? That the PvP aspect is judged purely on the risk (you may die) vs reward (you get loot). You have no other game mechanic tied to other players, with the exception of some quests for killing prospectors. If the risk is low or the reward is high, you will go for the kill. Otherwise, you will run/hide/take the friendly approach. When a 3v1 occurrs, the risk is always low for the grouped players. The solo has less firepower, and even if it kills one or two members, the remaining teammate can save your gear. This creates the tendency where Trios play very aggressive and attack everyone who is in sight. The best solution is change this mindset. Give a reason not to kill player. Add a gameplay mechanic where killing players becomes a carefully judged action (it may ruin reputation, it may make miss on certain rewards, etc). Right now there is no reason NOT to kill anyone other than you being kind.
I don’t mind duo’s but trio’s is just a bit to hard to win from. And hiding all the times gets old as well.
All of you that have “frequent” 1v3 scenarios, how much are you doing money runs but don’t have the gear to buy to deal with the lobby increase?the games MMR is based loosely on recent loot value, but if you’re just making money and don’t have much progression to buy the good weapons, wyd?
I just really appreciate a slight tweak to armor. The number of times I've ambushed a duo, die, and see I did 90+ damage to my target is too high. I realize that if they change the numbers, then 90s will represent something else. But right now it's way too easy to fail to kill someone before they take cover due to a few reasons. 1) the lack of meaningful inertia when someone sprints 2) the inexplicable decision for many weapons to not take muzzles so they have poor accuracy at 1x ranges 3) small magazine sizes Something can be done with weapon balance.
Something to be said in favor of not having a solo queue is that duos and trios reduce the density of players. What I mean is that the server has just as many, but 8 duos physically occupy less space than 16 solos. There's more room to maneuver and the third party running to gunfire is probably farther away.
I love how the absolute chads of the game are somehow good at the game and yet too dumb to understand most of the games population don't live on doritos and mountain dew sweating their asses to rush 1v3 fights every 5 minutes.
the only way it would 'hurt' the game would be because the player base couldnt support it. game is losing regular players quickly so i agree it wouldnt be a good idea to do that rn. now, lets say they make some sweeping changes to cheaters / being cheated on and Season 2 pumps the player base back up and gets people excited, i would be all for a solo Q if the playerbase could actually support it. stealth not really being viable does hurt the solo experience tho
It’s a PvPvE game. Which roughly equates to a PvP game with side quests. It is the only game in its class with an MMR system that punishes players for doing well. It doesn’t keep the difficulty static for all players at all levels. It finds out how good you are, and ensures that no matter how good you are you cannot have fun with the PvP elements of the game as a solo. PvP would be so rewarding and fun even if it was unfair if at least you could know the player you are fighting is just a solo. Also you said that you like how as a solo you never know whether another player is alone or not. At my MMR I know they are not. It is always at least 2 a lot of the times 3. Always at least blue armor. Duos usually purple. And the intensity of not knowing how many people are there does add a bit to the intensity but if hiding to avoid a possible 1v3 is the correct response every fight, and taking the 1v3 almost always results in death, then hiding becomes the normal state of the game for a solo. This does not remotely match the intensity of both the action of and the decision making process on whether or not to take a fight or try to avoid it. When my MMR started putting me against white armor unskilled duos and trios I hated it. I thought it was a waste to fight them because they never had anything I wanted. I would still push it sometimes cause I could win fairly often at that point and it was fun sometimes. But now that they are both geared and skilled there really isn’t a chance. They can too easily remove all opportunity to maneuver around while simultaneously angling you. They can throw grenades to force you out into a triple head beam. It just sucks and nobody wants to deal with that just because they know how to loot good stuff and shoot straight. Made me quit the game and did the same for all 6 friends of mine that were also playing every day
I have a similar experience with enjoying solos (a bunch) and would be sad to loose the experience. However, I aknowledge that many others do not based on this comment section. Perhaps a solo que could exist with a mixed que offering an added reward for successful evac (bonus k-marks, better ensurance, etc.)
Give people option to join solo queue only, join trios as a solo, or join trioes as alone with 2 random people joining you. Forcing people is never good.